he's coming home, but what does the president face with newly emboldened republicans? we have the story next. a beast goes wild. stunneded spectators run for their lives. >> one of the greatest boxers ever makes history in a bruising showdown in the ring. ♪ that will bring us back to do ♪ it's a soundtrack from cinematic history celebrate hello 45 years later. good morning. i'm alex witt. past 10:00 a.m. on the east coast and 7:00 a.m. on the west coast. the president is back to washington from his trip to asia. one of the things he'll be talking is the tax cuts. david axelrod is pressed on whether the president is willing to compromise on the tax breaks

for the richest 2%. >> the bottom line is he wants to sit down and talk about this, but -- there's no bend on the -- on the permanent extension of tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. >> he's open to compromise. >> he wants to sit down -- we want to get this done. the american people expect to get this done, and we are -- we are eager to sit down and talk about ho u to move forward. >> nbc's mike viqueira is live at the white house for us. good morning to you. >> reporter: good morning, alex. >> is this the first big battle of the lame duck congress, mike. >> reporter: it's shaping up to be. david axelrod couldn't bring himself to say what's left almost since the day the polls closed on november 2in', the moment the polls closed that they would accept a temporary extension of those tack -- tax cuts for the wealthy. something the president campaigned against very hard. now the interpretation is the voters want republicans and

democrat at the white house and those running the white house after the lame duck congress beginning in january they want them to come together. problem, republicans are standing firm, drawing a hard line. they say they want a permanent exec of the tax cuts not only for the middle class but the top 2%, the wealthy, couples making more than $250,000 a year. john mccain was on "meet the press" afterward. david gregory played a clip from 2004 where mccain said he didn't want the wealthy to get the tax cuts. he's singing a different tune now and he told david gregory why. >> is there a statute of limitations? >> the economics is vastly different today. it is not the time to raise anyone's tacks. they should be extended until we're out of this recession. until such time we can look at other tax hikes, but when we're in this recession i can't

believe raising taxes is a good thing on anybody. >> so it doesn't get any eeier for the president. he lands on the south lawn and will board marine one later this afternoon. later the lame duck session cob conveniences. on thursday he has all of them over the white house for a meeting and then upstairs to the residence for a little nosh, a little dinner. alec? >> that's going to be a big day. thank you very much, mike viqueira. we're going to bring you that full "meet the press" right here on msnbc at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. rahm emanuel has been campaigning in chicago. never officially announced he would be running as the city's mayor until now. >> the choices we make in the next if you'res will define chicago for future generations. they will determine whether we will remain a world-class city. strong measures are required to change the unsustained course we're on. we can't ask taxpayers for more when families are struggling to

stay afloat in this economy. >> that was emanuel on saturday as he announced his candidacy at a school on chicago's north side. arizona voters have approved a measure that will legalize marijuana for medical use in the state. the final vote came down saturday. the proposition passed. it's now the 15th state to legalize marijuana for medical use. an early blast of winter hit parts of minnesota this weekend. nearly a foot of snow fell in some parts of the twin cities catching many people by surprise after an unusually warm month so far with daytime highs into the 60s, nine inches of snow fell in northwest minneapolis. then check out storm-laden iowa. six inches of snow fell there covering the streets and the fields and the storms knocked down trees and power lines as well, creating a little bit of a mess. let's go to the weather channel jeff morrow who's going to get

us out of the mess and give us a good forecast. i hope there's one, jeff. >> i don't know, alex. would you like snow? >> i do if i'm skiing and i light for winter for the festivity of the holidays but if i'm skiing, yeah. >> we'll see what we can do. the snow you mentioned in the midwest, that's not coming to the northeast. it's headed up into canada. so good news for the time being anyway. we'll have a nice day along the east coast. rain along central p.a. most of that very, very light. new storm coming into the west. temperature use see not all that bad across most of the country, even where it's been snowy. the temperatures will rebound a little bit. i want to give you a sneak peek on into tomorrow, if first day of the school and workweek for most of us. we're going see rain across the southeast. this isn't a bad thing. it's been a little bit dry down here, alex, we can use some rain from houston to atlanta. eventually that will work its way up the east coast later this week and more snow. hey, there you go, alec, for you skiers out there in colorado.

wyoming and montana, early season powder as we head through the early days of this week. >> consider it my christmas gift. thank you very much. three men lost in the gulf of mexico friday night are now back home with their families after being rescued. a florida fish and wildlife officer found the men clinging to their overturned boat yesterday 25 miles offshore. they were left hungry, thirsty and bruised but otherwise they're in good shape. thousands of bernie madoff's possessions hit the auction block in new york. the ponzi's diamond engagement ring went for the highest price. all the items including furniture, shoes, mon grammed underwear, i kid you not, came from his new york and long island properties. some bidders were there for specific items while others wanted a piece of history. >> i tend to go for the art deco pieces that mrs. madoff was very much a fan of. >> it's something of personal interest to come and make a bid

and see if i can get something unique. >> u.s. marshalls estimate they pulled in more than $2 million from the sale. a historic night for boxing. many "pacman" pacquiao has become the first boxer to get a title in eight different boxing matches. more now from nbc's ron allen. >> reporter: what you're watching is one of the greatest boxers of all time, achieved something no one else in this sport has ever done. manny pacquiao, the smaller man, is devastating antonio margarito, the much bigger man. when it was over, pacquiao, also known as the "pacman" had won his eighth boxing tight eighth different weight classes each against a significantly larger opponent, a feat that's had the world of professional boxing in awe. >> we're watching something in

manny pacquiao that may not be wasn't in a generation but maybe once in a lifetime, maybe once period. >> reporter: he's also known as the filipino phenom because he rose from that country's poverty to become one of the world's most richest athletes. he's 3 #, perhaps nearing the end of his boxing days, and just beginning a new career. last may elected to his nation's congress. and now being mentionnd by fans as a possible president. there was concern he was too distracted to fight. >> it's going to be a good fight on saturday, so don't miss it. it's going to be fun. >> reporter: as he won his latest unprecedented title the congressman showed a bit of heart and compassion, looking to the referee to stop the fight and pulling his punches in the closing rounds, apparently concerned about how badly his opponent was getting battered. like so many adversaries he's faced in the ring, in life, a foe much big eric not better.

>> with that win, manny pacquiao is now 53-2-2 with 38 knockouts. yeah, he's the best. they appear to be a dying breed but do the members of congress have enough fight in them to make a difference for democrats? that's ahead. they're the offbeat alternatives to facebook. we're going to show you. stick around. you're watching "msnbc sunday." ♪

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raging flames. they torched 14 tankers today. it's one of a series of attacks in the last 24 hours that have killed at least four nato service members and two civilians. democrats in congress will choose new party members on wednesday. there may not be much of a change in the top of the ranks.

nancy pelosi is vying to be the leader. no one is running against her f. . he's being called assistant. not everyone's happy with the idea of keeping the leaders who presided over the democrats' midterm losses. jim mathson of utah joins me live. good morning. >> good morning. >> are you one of those not happy with keeping the same democratic leadership in place? >> yes, i am. i can't believe it. we just went through a -- democrats went through a loss of historic proportions. the worst loss since 1948 in terms of congressional elections, and it seems to me when you go through that type of loss and lose independent voters across the country, why would you keep the same lineup of leadership? it just doesn't make sense on its face, and i'm surpriseded that we're doing this. >> and what would you suggest as an alternative? what do you want to see happen? >> first of all, i don't know

that it has to be any ideological issue or anything like that. i just think when you suffer a loss of this type of historic proportion, you've got to shape things up. and by the way, democratic leadership was a focal point of the election this past -- two tuesdays ago, and you've got to acknowledge that. let's be really lis tick about how to move forward. how do democrats go on the path? stay on the same management team? that doesn't make sense to me. >> your voice isn't the only one echoing these sentiments. when asked how to keep the gop from hurting her, let's listen to this. >> let me say this when you say "more than it already has. the reason the election results are what they are is because we have 9.5% unemployment in our country. we didn't lose the election because of me. >> don't you think that's a fair assessment? >> i think it's dangers to say only one variable is why the

elections turned ow. sure, the down economy is a factor. i can tell you speaker pelosi was an issue, there's no doubt about it. ask any pollster who helped analyze those races across the country in those tough districts and it was an issue. is it inappropriate how much she was vilified? yeah, it was. she took more of a hit than she should have. but the bottom line is she became a lightning rod and a polarizing figure. >> so you think the gop was able to use pelosi as the face of the democratic party in a negative way because she's been so successful asthma jort leader. >> i think the results on the ground speak for themselves. and, again, that wasn't the only variable either. but i'm just saying a lot of these tough districts, clearly that was an issue. >> there are some democrats representative mathson that say they lost big because their reforms didn't go far enough. are they at risk of miss reading what the voters want and then

overreacting to the midterm losses? >> i think they're at risk of overreading it if they think democrats didn't go far enough. quite frankly, we lost middle america. we lost the independents that voted for us four years ago. we lost among women, i among seniors. . i mean these losses were significant. this was not an average election by any way, shape, or form. this was the worst turnover in the house of representatives since 1948. so i'm all for having an intro speckive discussion about what happened and why and i'm not one of these guys who jumps to quick conclusions about looking at one variable but we'd better have an honest assessment of what happened and why. >> there may be some who suggest that voices like yours are going to fracture the sew lid fig nature of the democratic base and you might annoy some people, particularly those to the left. do you worry about that? have you heard that? >> you know, i -- you know, i've

always assumed the democratic party was the big ten party. that's one of the things that's distinguished the democrats from the%s. we have to practice what we preach in being a big ten party. i'm part of a group that i think represents a lot of america, weather independents or democrats. they want a more pragmatic approach. they want a constructive approach in washington. they don't like the polarizing and bickering yochl u took a bunch of moderate voices out of congress and replaced them with extreme voices on the right. i fear more gridlock. but when it comes to my group, i'm part of the blue dogs. the blue dogs have always had a reputation for being constructive prague natick people. i think we're important for the democratic party and we're going to continue that role. >> thank you so much. let's get some more perspective now. eleanor clift is a contributing

editor of news week. ladies, good morning. what's your take on what the congressman had to say? >> listening to him i think he makes excellent points. the fact that he's survived as a democrat in utah which is one of the most red states he's to be commended for that. in listening to him i was reminded that when walter mondale lost 49 states to president reagan in 1984 and mondale had a woman on his ticket, gerry ferrar rowe, there was some attempt to blame her and i remember the response. the democrats would have lost that year even if god herself were on the ticket. so i think the point that nancy pelosi makes, that this election was really a referendum on a bad economy, i think it's a very valid point. but the congressman is also right when he says that she has been -- pelosi has been demonized throughout the country. $65 million was spent on her in these various congressional

races, and i think democrats really don't want her to be the story over the next two years. they want to put the focus on the new republican majority and their attempts to try to deliver on their promises to cut the deficit when they have no credible plan and to make them look like they're the ones who are out of touch with middle america. >> erin, same question to you with regard to what the representative of utah had to say. >> there's a lot of frustration. will's a lot of moderates that feel like they got defeated. you know, the big hit was in the moderate ranks and these guys are saying, look, if we're ever going to be in power again, the democrats are going to retake the majority, they're going have to recapture it and many of those guys feel like nancy pelosi. she's obviously a liberal. she comes from liberal flank of the caucus, that she's not the figure that's going be able to help them get there. she's not necessarily the type

of person that can go into these swing districts and try to recruit candidates and try campaign for these candidates and elect these candidates. so i think really what we're hearing from mr. mathieson and other moderates is, hey, is this really the direction we want to, go have we learned any lessons and if we learned lessons, what are they because like you said we're looking at the same leadership lineup in the minority as we had in the majority and he feels and i think a lot of moderates feel they're not taking stock of what happened. >> eleanor, which party do you think is in the stronger position as the new congress takes over. >> the republicans have the majority so i think they're in the stronger position but with that strength comes the burden of leadership, and they're going to face the challenge of adopting -- adapting all of these sort of, you know, red-hot tea party types in with what -- a caucus that's really a corporate establishment republicans. and putting those two together, you see the fight flaring over

earmarks. the tea party people want to eliminate all earmarks. the democrats love earmarks. it's how they bring home the gifts, the pork to their districts. the president is siding with the tea party people so i think we we're going to see more fight witness the two parties over the next two years than we will see across party lines. it's quite fascinating. >> absolutely fascinating is the word. eleanor clift and erin billings. ladies, thank you. >> thank you. does facebook leave you feeling left out? how about others like zombies, psychics, vampires. we're going to check out these and other rather bizarre sights next on "msnbc sunday." [ male announcer ] how can rice production in india affect wheat output in the u.s., the shipping industry in norway,

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so anyone who's computer savvy knows all this. let's say you're a psych immom who wants to find folks like her love zombies, vampires, ham ste steres. would you know where to look? ^ ^.^. he's going to take us for a walk on the wild side. there's a sight for people who have implants? >> yeah, myfreeimplants is one of my favorite sites. essentially there's women seeking breast augmentation and they're seeking men will w.h.o. will pay for it. >> what happens -- so guys just pay for some chick's random boob job? >> the guys are called benefactors actually. they team up, they pay for the breast implants. >> what do the guys get?

>> they get a lot out of it. after the only o p rah igs women are willing to do video chatting with them and play online games. aisle let you extrapolate from there. >> okay. does that rank up there as one of the most unusual sites? >> well, there's a whole host of special -- facebook has 500 million users but that doesn't mean it's for everyone. there's ravry, a site for weaving, sitting, spinning, dog ster, hamster. >> little gerbils running around. >> there's something for everyone. >> including people -- we see the church one here at the bottom of the bar. so if you have a desire to get to heaven, you believe in that. >> yeah, there's a line for heaven.com. so essentially you log on, you see two other users and you see who you want to bless with your karma points. it's like that old website hot or not where you're choosing between here but on the line is eternal salvation.

>> are there any people talking to you saying, yeah, okay, robbing this is really weird. there's weird stuff out there? >> oh, absolutely. but i think it's real life. you have mainstream culture. people go to work, people go to school, and people do weird things on their own time. >> do you get a sense of how many people travel these sights. >> >> ravelry claims to have a million users. there's foo bar which is an online watering hole where you can buy people online drinks. >> but they can't get drunk. >> i guess the premise is you can meet up in real life lateer. >> is there anything that stands out like this is going to be the next big thing? >> you know, of the ones i've been looking at, i don't see any facebook killers but i think you're going to see a bigger head of social heading throughout, facebook and then you trade in these other sites. >> interesting stuff from "the

huffington post" and rob fishman. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. a bull hopping the rail and going into the crowd. look at that. as you can see, some spectators did all they could to elude. fortunately the rider was able to lasso the bull before he charged more. four people were hurt. it could have been a lot worse.

welcome back to "msnbc sunday." i'm alex witt. the chairman of a presidential commission, they are calling for everything from a new gasoline tax to a rise in the retirement

age. on "meet the press" today senior adviser david axelrod says while the votes are not popular, the issue can't be ignoreded. >> it's a huge problem, we have to deal with i. it's not going to be easy to deal with it. if one side says no tacks can go up, any interest, any corporation, any individual, and the other side says no cuts can be made, we're not going to solve it. everybody has to give a little and we're going to have to move forward and deal with this problem together and hopefully whatever happens they're have the impetus to do it. >> 14 of 18 commission members must do that to approve a plan for congress to consider it. some republicans are calling for a freeze on federal wages maybe even a pay cut. thaw're on for recent analysis on "usa today." the number of federal workers earn 1g $50,000 a year has skyrocketed by 1000%. jacky per sin itch. good morning.

>> are they going to make this an issue in the lame-duck session. >> i'm sure they're going to make it an issue. one thing they're going to contest most is whether they try to pass -- democrats try to pass a reparations bill. that would be everything at once and they wound fund these government agencies through more than just kicking it to the next congress. so as opposed to passing a continuing resolution, which would just kick it to the next congress. so that's one of the debates i think you're going to see. >> how about federal unions? the analysis here, do they weigh in and say, look, it's not everything this meets the eye here, there's more to it like they're counting in benefits, things like that that will add up to that 150,000 target number? >> well, exactly they're also saying you're taking out

education and competing with private industry who may be better educated. so that's one of the things you're hearing unions saying. this is a disproportionate issue. >> that's trepgt 10% cut in the federal work force about a three-year pay freeze for most of them. lawmakers, are they going to take issue? >> i would say absolute. that was included the republican pledge to america. our republicans are really looking to cut pay, freeze pay, and get this spending under control. that & that's one and that's one of the ways they plan on doing it what about hiking up the salaries of two million workers by more than 2%. is that dead in the water? >> it depends phenomenon they do an omniboost preparations bill meaning that pass everything at

once. i doubt they would bring it up as a stand alone just because it would give republicans a pretty good political football to throw around in the couple weeks they have left. >> yep. very good point there. jackie kucinich. thank you. >> thank you. 50 million citizens may be getting a part i gift from the lame-duck congress. they're pushing for a one-time payment of $250,000 for social security recipients. last year the government announced there would be no cost-of-living increase for a second year in a row because inflation nas haas has remained flat george w. bush said he doesn't miss being president except the pampering that comes with the jobful he's promoting his memoir "decision points." first u.s. governor and vice president candidate and now a tv reality star. that's the latest role played by

sarah palin whose new show "sarah palin alaska." will it with good or another trainwreck waiting to happen? holy is here to tell us about this show. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> is this the most expensive presidential campaign ad or not? >> some people think so. most candidates are thinking about what they're doing for 2012. this is great timing on her part if she does and as she has been hinting run for president. >> what h show is about, though, is not political per se. it's about sarah palin, her family, the way they live in alaska, right? >> right basically if you thing about the last two years, sarah palin, when john mccain picked her as his running mate she came to this as a soccer mom or hockey mom actually. alaska housewife, this sort of, you know, person that wasn't in

a plut call role but that image has taken a hit over the last couple of years and so what this does, i think, would be to help her sort of, you know, come across again as a regular person, someone ha doesn't crave politics or office, which in one of her big quotes from the show is, you know, i'd rather be out here than in some stuffy old political office. so on one hand that does help her. >> does that give food for the critics? fodder? like she doesn't want to be there? >> i think obviously. it already has. karl rove has cited that quote saying that's going to come back and haunt her. >> were the sarah palin celebrity factor not part of the show, would it be any good? >> i think they will tune in because they're curious about her. even haters of hers are going to tune in. >> absolutely they'll tune in. you know they're going check it out. what about the critics of sarah

palin. you talk about karl rove but what can you foresee coming down the pipe for her? >> i think they're going to nitpick what she says. some say she casts certain household arguments as an issue. immigration and that kind of thing. but, again, i think they're going to question, how can you be a reality star and then run for president. i would also say in her defense, a lot of us have been laughing what her strategy has been for the last two years. somebody that doesn't talk to the media very oftenle look at her popularity. it's only really grown among republicans. >> what do you think the chances are if this works, this being a now kind of a vehicle for political campaigns, dom some sort of reality gig? >> it's kind of shocking if you think about recent presidential elections. i mean at the same time, i mean we are in a different world, i think. >> i think we definitely are. okay.

"sarah palin's alaska" is going to be interesting to watch. you have to tune in. i have to too. i have to check this out. holy bailey rng thanks. we're going to come met rate the 45th anniversary of "the sound of music" with two of its stars next on "msnbc sunday." if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear

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and talk to your doctor about psoriasis. ♪ it's the most successful musical of all time. it is "the sound of music." and 45 years later it is now available for the first time on blu-ray disk, digitally remastered and restored in pristine high definition. just a few days ago i got to stand down with stars who are here in new york for a cast reunion. i'm joined right now by tim and angela cart rooikt.

ladies good morning or girls as we remember you. what a special occasion to have you. i know this has been sort of a whirlwind. you've got lots of publicity right now. blu-ray disk. anniversary. 45 years. does it astound you? >> it's staggering. >> it's disturbinging staggering. it's many things. >> it's pretty amazing it's been 45 years. when we get together it's like it was yes. we're kind of the non-trapps we call ourselves and we all pick up where we left off. >> that is so wonderful p when you think about what happened 45 years ago, what is the most prominent memory of filming all that? during the filming, what do you remember most, kim? >> i remember most being in a foreign setting in an entirely foreign setting and -- >> at the age of what? 5. >> 5. i had a really graduate memory back then. i remembered everything. but it was wonderful being in that incredibly beautiful place

surrounded by just amazing history and really the beauties of europe. i think that's when i sort of my passion for europe got -- i got inspired. >> because you went to live in france. >> i did. i lived in paris for two years and london for a year and a half, which was great fun. you know, i think all of that was sort of set in motion pretty early on. >> how about you angela, you were just a little bit older, not much. did you appreciate that as well, the environment, or was it the fun, the friends you were making? having a good time? >> making friends -- because i was on the d"the danny thomas s so i didn't have a group of kids to play with. doing the movie was great because here i had more kids. i hit it off with heather m. the two of them were beatles freaks. >> they were obsessed. >> you guys were so cute. >> we certainly loved them and

drove the crew crazy, i'm sure. but it was such a beautiful location to be at. and then we came back to los angeles and filmed the rest of the movie. >> how did your lives change, angela when you got back. were a veteran, if you will, of television, but this was a global phenomenon and still is today. >> right. you know, it kind of gained steam then. nobody knew when it came out it was going to have such longevity as it has. i went right into "lost in space" afterward so my career didn't stop. i became more of a teenagener that role. but after we started getting together and having our reunions and such incredible crowds came out, that was when i think we started to realize, whoa, this movie has really touched a lot of people all over the world. >> ant didn't you get to work together on "lost in space?" >> we did. i was like "sleepy beauty."

i had to be kissed to be awakened up. billy had to kiss me. i think he thought it was gross because he was 9. i thought it was gross. i wore a scepter. >> i hear you didn't like all your costumes you had to wear, particularly the one when you were in the boat. >> it's true. i absolutely loathed the suspendered horrible thing that i wore. yeah, i -- >> the overalls. >> i have never worn overalls. not before, not since. i liked the pretty clothes i got to wear. i loved the nightgown and the pretty party dresses. >> wasn't that one of the first scenes that you shot was the "rain drops on roses?" >> yes, it was. >> you all seemed to o work so well. had you clicked just like that? >> we rehearsed for weeks before. with seven kids i think it was brilliant to do because we all knew what was expected of us when we went on the set.

so whatever delays there were was usually weather. it wasn't weather. >> was it rainy. >> rainy cold? >> it was. >> i loved everybody. i was in awe of everybody. >> you were so cute. everyone loveland little gretle. what about julie andrews and christopher plummer? did they take on a parent role for you. >> she still is. she's very sweet. clucks around, is very protective and very, very sweet. >> coming around in two hours we'll run part ii. well, the president's debt reduction plans have to do with doing away with tax. what if it does? you're watching "msnbc sunday." [ male a nn what if it does? you're watching "msnbc sunday." rare and magical fruit, which provided for their every financial need.

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here's a quick progarage note. we invite you to watch the special yt beyond borderline" hosted by lawrence o'donnell and m maria teresa kumar. it's time to get washington spending under control. they have released a slew of proposals to tackle the deficit including raising the returm age to 69, raising the federal gas tax by 15 cents and slashing $100 billion in tee dee fence spending. 're just the tip of the iceberg. good morning to you. >> good morning, alex. >> you know, we had a budget surplus not so long ago. how did we get to the point where we need to make these kinds of sacrifices. >> that's right. a decade ago we were running surplisu surpl surpluses. the biggest component is due to

recession. economy is weak, unemployment is high. when they're not working they're not paying taxes. unemployment, that sort of thing costing the government more money. that's a biggest part of where the deficit comes from. the others were the tax cuts in 2001, 2003 we were still debating. then you also have higher spending. have the wars in iraq and afghanistan, the medicare prescription drug benefit. add all that together. more spending, less tax revenue and a giant recession. you have a whopping deficit. >> i'm curious, politics aside. as a financial reporter, neil, how urgent is the budget deficit right now. where is the point of no return when we absolutely must act? >> the truth is this is not an imminent cry sichlts right now the government is able to borrow money at very low rates, 2.7% on friday. people are confident that the united states government will find a way to bring steps into line in the longer rub. that said, we don't have forever and eventually if we keep running the kind of deficits that we are now, eventually the

bond market's going to turn. eventually they're going to say, i don't trust them to lend them my money and it could be an ugly situation. even though we don't need to reduce the deficit overnight, if we could develop a path way that would be helpful for the near term and long term. >> when you talk about the reason we're in this deficit mess if you will in part because of the yummy economy forecast that turns around doesn't that start to help chipping away at the deficit? >> absolutely that. would be the most helpful thing toward wright these financial imbalances would be a stronger economy so hopefully we get there in the next few years, that said, there are some longer term challenges, especially around health care funding. >> the site put our national debt at $13.72 trillion. it was about $5.68 trillion in 2000. in 2015 it's estimated it will be at 17.41 dollar. at the current rate, 24.13

billion dollar. what does the nationality debt mean to our economy and how much is too muchsome. >> there's not a magic number. is it 70% of gdp or 90%? you know, the higher you get, the more risk you face that you have some kind of fiscal crisis as they've had in greece and ireland increasingly. that's not a situation you want to be in. if you can do anything to avert that, that's a desirable thing. at the same time you don't want to take measures to reduce things in the growth term so it's a tricky thing to balance and trying to thread that needle and accomplish both things at once. >> this may seem like a simpleton question but why do we have a national debt and can it be at zero at any point? >> the modest levels of debt are not a problem. if you're at a low and stable level of a national debt it's not anything to worry about but in general the hire it gets the more you're crowding out private investments so every dollar the government borrows is a dollar

they can't use to expand or invest. it crowds money out of the private sector. you don't want the deficit to be too high so you don't want the deficit to rise rapidly over time. that's a situation we need to end before too much longer. >> okay, neil irwin. also good to talk with you. it's a robot that looks so human it's a bit creepy. who is this humanoid an what is she up to? e we'll explain on "msnbc sunday." [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. navigating today's real estate market is complicated. you've seen the signs. that's why having the right real estate agent is more important than ever.

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