and as such, you get policies of fear as opposed to effective. >> wn i say 13 years running, that's the longest stretch ever in history. that tells us the fear we felt after world war ii doesn't add up. >> brilliant comparison. nice to see you. david goodfriend. that does it for us. "hardball's" up right now. a terror conviction rings hallow. let's play "hardball." i'm michael smerconish. leading off tonight, trial and error. president obama pledged early on to close guantanamo and try some of the most infamous terror suspects in civilian court, but

his plan was dealt a setback yesterday when the first detaineeç tried in federal cou was acquitted on all but one of 285 charges related to the 1998 african embassy bombings. they're urging the president to abandon these trials. they say the prosecution still won the case and this was a victory for the rule of law. our top story tonight, the terrorist trial turned political football. plus, remember the heat the obama administration took for bailing out general motors, how critics called the company government motors. today, the stock raised as much as 23 billion, so can the president now turn this into a win for himself and make the case that the auto giant has saved hurrica ed hundreds of th

jobs. and sarah palin has gone mainstream lately. she talked to the "new york times" and sat down with barbara walters. also, the republican governors are meeting this week to put their stamp on the party and they want michael steele out as rnc chair and let me finish tonight with what i need to see before i'm convinced the economy is on its way back. we start with the political fallout of the detainee. the former governor of new york and jonathan turley, professor, why was a key witness not permitted in this trial? >> the bush administration tortured him and while many people engage in language, water boarding is torture. it's been found to be torture in u.s. courts. what the judge said was i'm not

going to allow in evidence der rooifed by torture and those people that want us to introduce evidence from torture,ç it's a perfectly midevil concept. >> lawyers would call this a fruit of a poisonous tree. >> that's right. this is a particularly poisonous tree because what it does is says that our country is fighting terrorism and the means used for terror, but we are willing to use torture. why? because it's useful or we're afraid. >> can anyone say that the outcome would have been different in a tribunal? >> i believe it would have and i hope it would have. the professor's rant is what's wrong with the whole idea of trying these murderers in a

civilian court system. this person was intimately involved in the murder of hundreds but goes after the vovlt of bush. that should be about was this person a murderer, a criminal and terrorist. >> i need to ask you, is it so clear to you, sir, that this evidence would have come many in a tribunal? because it's not clear to me. >> judge kaplan's footnote said he has reservations about whether or not it would, but the point is we should never be having these trials in the first place. we tried that after 1993. we brought criminal proceedings against those terrorists responsible for murder. now, we have captured foreign combatants. this person was captured in pakistan after being intimately involved in the murder of 224

people. we shouldn't have to listen to the propaganda about what the united states was wrong. >> professor turley, i read in the "l.a. times" today that four other terris have been successfully tried in civilian cour courts. >> that's right. we've had hundreds of trials. we tried the blind sheik and convicted him and gave him life. the governor's problem in this case is not just with the judge, but 12 citizens who have looked at this evidence and said we don't buy these counts. >> that's totally wrong. >> professor, you just commented on what i believe. >> can i finish. >> i'm critical of this administration for making the first step to use the civilian system.

>> you take the floor, then the governor. >> thank you very much. you are criticizing the system. you want to change the system. that's not the meaning of the rule of law. this whole debate of let's look at the outcome to determine if we want to use federal courts is a terrible type of argument. we don't look at the results of cases to decide if we want to use our court system. we've convicted hundreds of people of terrorism. it works very well. this individual is going to go away for at least 20 years and probably life, but because the u.s. government didn't sweep the field of these counts, people are saying the system must be flawed. >> he's acquitted 284 times. when we had to listen to a jury say not guilty, this mass murderer would have walked. professor, i agree with one

thing you said. i'm not criticizing the decision after the fact. i was critical of the decision of the obama administration on day one. and under the rule of law in the united states since the days of president washington and particularly under president lincoln during the civil war, we had the legal and instituticonsl right to try enemy combatants in those and forgive me for being a little emotional, but i was there on september 11th and i saw the consequences for failing to respond appropriately and i don't want toç wait until thers another catastrophe for people to say that this decision to wrong. it has been and always will be. >> allow me to follow up about venue. there's been a lot of conversation. the initial plan was to try ksm in federal court in manhattan and a lot of concern was expressed that the city was not prepared for that.

it strikes me that there has been this successfully tried case right here in new york. how if at all does that change your perspective as to whether new york should be a venue? >> first of all, i wouldn't say this was a successful trial when a terrorist caught in pakistan responsible for the murder of 224 people was convicted of one conspiracy charge is a failure. >> that's the irony. to me, here our federal injujur seated in new york. >> playing with the evidence they were allowed to see which did not include the evidence of the person who sold the tnt to the defendant and did not include the defendant's confession that he knew this was going to happen the day before. they weren't allowed to hear that testimony under the civilian system and not under our military tribunal system. you throw around the world torture, professor, you're just

dead wrong. others have detailed what enhanced interrogation is allowed to do and i believe, i have confidence in those who put their lives on the line to defend us that they do it the right way and what's being done the wrong way -- >> but you don't have confidence in the obama administration and attorney general holder. >> yes, i do. they were not allowed to hear the evidence. they were not allowed to hear the testimony. who said that he sold the tnt used to blow up those embassies to the defendant who was acquitted of murder and terrorism. they did not get to hear his confession. not under torture. he said that he knew the day before this was going to happen. they didn't get to hear that because it was used, it was tried in the wrong venue. in a military tribunal, this murderer would be convicted. >> first of all, in military

tribunals, the obama administration did change the rules to say you could not introduce evidence from coercion or torture. these are the same types of voices we heard, this goes to the beginning of our country when john adams was representing the accused soldiers in the boston massacre. there were many who insisted we should have special justice. john adams stepped forward and said, no, we're not going to change who we are because of who we hate. because we want a particular result. we've convicted hundreds of terrorists and we've done it in a way that is transparent and legitimate. when the governor talks about this debate about torture, it is a debate that has made the united states a laughing stock, condemned for our use of

torture. >> should -- quick answer if you're able. should the target determine the way in which with -- whether a civilian or military insulation or government facility? >> no, my view that we should try terrorists in civilian court and use the system they're trying to destroy to convict them. >> governor, if you give me a quick answer -- >> who we are is to uphold the rule of law and that has been in the case of enemy combatants and terrorists who are not american citizens and not entitled to the full protection of our justice system, that we have every right. in fact, i believe an obligation, to try them in military tribunals so we can bring justice to those who were innocent of anything but trying to lead their lives. >> thank you for a lively ç

conversation. the new general motors held its initial public offering today and it's a big first step toward getting the bailout money back, but can president obama turn gm's success into a political victory for himself and will he get credit for helping gm turn itself around? ♪ [ male announcer ] what does it take to excel in today's business world? our professors know. because they've been there. and they work closely with business leaders to develop curriculum to meet the needs of top businesses. which means when our graduates walk in the room, they're not only prepared... they're prepared to lead. devry university's keller graduate school of management. learn how to grow the business of you at keller.edu.

charlie rangel is about to learn his fate. the house ethics committee is deliberating his punishment after being found guilty of misconduct in violation of house ethics rules. the top attorney recommended censure and if the committee agrees, the full house will vote and rangel will likely be made to stand in the chamber to be chastised by the speaker.

well, i think our first role

should be shareholders they're looking to get out. i -- i don't want to run auto companies. i don't want to run banks. i've got two wars i've got to run already. i've got more than enough to do. so, the sooner we can get out of that business, the better off we're going to be. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president obama in april of 2009 talking about the government's bailout of general motors. now today, the shareholder in chief officially started toç g out. gm shares went on sale at the new york stock exchange in what could be the largest initial public offering in u.s. history and later, president obama reacted. >> today, one of the toughest tales of the recession took another big step to becoming a success story. general motors relaunch itself

as a public company cutting stake by nearly half. what's more, american taxpayers are now positioned to recover more than my administration invested. >> joining us now is jennifer granholm. what did it mean to your state? >> there's an old expression that says as goes general motors so goes michigan. obviously, this was great news for us. can you imagine what would have happened if the administration didn't intervene? there was a national -- an organization that issued a publication that described what would have happened and we would have lost 1.4 million jobs. what a horrible tragedy that would have been. instead, the united states did the wise thing and the taxpayers are going to be paid back and we have an auto industry that's lean and lighter and people are working and for the first time now since the year 2000, we've

seen hiring in the american auto industry. it is really terrific. >> you make reference to the taxpayers being paid back. is it your expectation they'll be paid back in full and is that a fair barometer to evaluate this transaction? >> that second question is a good question, but obviously, everybody wants the taxpayers to be paid back in full. they expect of the skent sales that should be able to get them there and they certainly did well in this one. i think it is a largest public offering in united states history and if you do the green chute expansion as they say, could be the largest global public offering, which is prettç amazing. but is it worth it, is it worth the taxpayers having stepped in even if they didn't get fully paid back, i would say the consequences of not stepping in

are so horrific to the manufacturing sector, to the whole tentacles is worth them stepping in. >> you heard president perhaps at the outset of this conversation when he said i'm already dealing with two wars, i don't want to be to be ns banking business or automotive business, yet suspicious lurks that he does. >> why would he want to be? that's so crazy. why would he want to be engaged in running an auto company. he wanted to save american jobs. dan akerson, a republican who runs the company, they were not engaged in selecting the new head of general motors. they haven't been engaged in the day-to-day discussions of how to do this. they wanted simply to save a great american company and most importantly, the jobs that go with it including the entire

manufacturing backbone of the united states. this is one step. not the whole thing, but it is a great step for recovery of the national economy. chrysler's initial public offering, we hope to be equally successful, but just from my seat in michigan where every single month this year now, michigan has seen our unemployment rates ticking down because we had the largest unemployment rate in the nation due to concentration in out motive manufacturing. >> the national unemployment number at about 9.6%. michigan, you still have your hands full at 13%. what needs to take place? >> 12.8, not that you can declare victory on that, but it was almost 15 and in fact, the michigan unemployment numbers, michael, have actually beat in terms of the drop in unemployment claims, every single month have beatenç the

u.s. unemployment claims drop percentage wipes. so we feel good. like manufacturing is back on track. >> appreciate it. let's go now to bob, the president of the auto workers. mr. king, i saw where you were quoted as saying today, a dramatically different company. how so? >> many different ways. one is the level of cooperation and involvement of our membership. the quality of management. tremendously global productivity of our plants. the great products we're providing to consumers. the level of involvement from our membership. today's ipo is just great for our members, both active and retired. >> am i correct in saying the uaw's hold is about 17.5% and if

so, do you intend to -- >> technically, the it's viba and under the court decisions and court approved viba documents, we have an independent who makes the final decisions on when stock will be sold or not. >> i'd be remiss if i didn't ask you about blocking the extension of unemployment benefits. do you believe that at any point the perpetuation of unemployment benefits become a disincentive for individuals to find work? you know that argument. >> that's ridiculous. that's ridiculous. there are five or six people laid off for every job there is available. people want to be back working. i know when our members are laid off, they're calling us all the time. people want to work. there are so many great americans who are laid off today through no fault of their own.

it seems to me morally wrong not to extend unemployment and we should be creating public works jobs. we should be putting peopleç t work building a new infrastructure, new power grid, new highways, new suer systems. there's so much to do in meamera to make us competitive. i've seen reports it costs $2 million. china is spending so much more money to be more globally competitive than we are. it's time for the republicans in government to do what we did in michigan. in michigan, we took people who used of the really different viewpoints and shows that we can all work together for the benefit of america. this is a victory today not just for uaw members, not just for gm shareholders, but for all of america. we need manufacturing jobs in america for america to be a strong county trand we need to country to work together to be able to compete in the 21st

century. republicans unwillingness to spend is wrong. i call on them in the spirit of cooperation and the spirit of working together we've done at general motors, with chrysler, with ford, we're working together today for the good of everyone. we need our government to come together. we need the political parties to come together and support president obama's leadership and wanting to rebuild the infrastructure. >> thank you so much. appreciate your time very much. up next, if you think there's too much partisanship in washington, take a look at this fight in argentina. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. r 1 ] what do you see yourself doing one week, one month, five years after you do retire? ♪ client comes in and they have a box. and inside that box is their financial life. people wake up and realize i better start doing something. we open up that box. we organize it. and we make decisions. we really are here to help you. they look back and think,

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welcome back. time for the "sideshow." first up, let's put political

fights in perspective. check out what happened in the arnl tina legislature during the budget fight. explaining her smack, the poll said he wore me out because i've been putting up with him all year long. he kept shouting without making a proposal. next, the sheriff's new posse. if you think you see the hulling, you're not hallucinating. he is enlisted illegal immigration fighters. also sworn in, peter lupus, a retired police official who's name is dick tracy.

and now tos texas birther bill. a state rep has introduced a bill requiring any candidate for president to show their birth certificate to the texas secretary of state. representative says it's necessary because of quote we have a president whom the american people don't know if he was born in kenya or some other place. and now for tonight's big number. the philadelphia eagles. lincoln financial field is about to become the greenest in the world. by this time next year, the stadium will be fitted with at least 2,500 solar panels and that is tonight's big number. up next, sarah palin often calls the mainstream media, the lame stream media. in an interview, she says she could beat president obama. she'sç happy to go mainstream it helps her, but with her hand

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today's gm offering fuelling a global rally. the dow soaring 173 points, the s&p climbing 18, the nasdaq jumping 38. general motors shares rising more than 3.5% after this morning's ipo. more than a hundred million shares traded in the first 30 minutes sending prices soaring about 7%, but prices were leveling out by mid afternoon. investors also feeling better about ireland's debt crisis after the head of its central

bank said he expects quote a substantial bailout. staples posted a boost in profits thanks to tight cost controls. sears to the bottom of the s&p after delivering a wider than expected loss and dell's shares are surging on blockbuster profits posting after the closing bell. now back to "hardball." i'm looking at the lay of the land now and trying to figure that out, if it's a good thing for the country, for the discourse, for my family. >> if you ran for president, could you beat barack obama? >> i believe so. >> welcome back to "hardball." i'm michael smerconish.

both in that abc interview and in this sunday's interview, sarah palin is engaging with a group she usually disdains. the mainstream, or her words, lame stream media. is it a good move for her? norah o'donnell is nbc's chief washington correspondent. jay newton small is washington correspondent for "time" magazine. does this represent a change on behalf of governor palin? >> this is the second time this week she has suggested she is interested in a presidential run. i think the reason she's giving more interviews, she's usually secretive, is because she's got a book to sell and has a reality tv show on bravo and so all of these interviews, this press attention, just increases the palin brand, palin inc for whatever she wants to run or make lots of money. >> jay, how do you read the tea leaves on this and does she

require engagement of the media in order to win a republican nomination? >> if you're going to run for president, you have to do a certain amount of lame stream media no matter what, but i think you know, honestly, this is a very much her play book when she ran for governor of alaska. she quit her job at the head of the oil and gas commission. started calling juneau corrupt. calling it an old boys club. she gave lots of speeches, everyone was going, is she going to run, she kept saying if the candidates aren't good, maybe she would step in and then at the last minute, she announced her candidacy and won the governorship that way. >> that bedrockç of support sh maintains within the gop, they don't care if she sits down with the times. >> there's no doubt if she runs

for president, she's going to do it in a different way. that she scores points with the american public by running against the media, the lame stream media. it works for her, this sort of untraditional candidate. however, she will have to submit to questions. not just in interviews with reporters or barbara walters, but if she decides to sit on a stage with ten other republicans vying for the nomination, she'll have to take questions in that respect not only from who ever is asking the questions, but other republicans, and questioning her qualifications. >> jay, let's success the success bristol palin is having on "dancing with the stars." i've waited three questions to get into it. >> it definitely shows there are people out there, a big base out there, that's hungry to vote for sarah palin and in the meantime, they get to press the button as

many times as they want. >> some of the book has been leaked online. for example, palin writes -- the. >> she uses this book to rip the heart out of levy johnson once again and settle old scores. not only does she go after him, talking about how he wasn't there for the birth, but she goes after some reality stars on american idol. even though her daughter is on a reality show and she is on a show, sarah palin's alaska that is on tlc. she takes a lot of pot shots, even depending her daughter, i'd take bristol over murphy brown. dredging up murphy brown.

>> she brings up -- that, too, plays well with the base. >> absolutely. all of this just playing super well with the base. the more you throw at her and a the more she seems like everybody else, the every day woman, soccer mom, the more they love her for it. it has, just makes her more popular and it's going to be hard for her competition if she does run, to get criticisms that will stick against her. >> how does it play within the establishment crowd? i thought it was a great postcard for alaska. how is she regarded by the establishment types within the grand old party? >> look, karl rove has said openly that he doesn't think that she has the qualifications

to be commander in chief and doing a reality show is not something that proves you have the gravtous to be commander in chief. but she doesn't represent the establishment and if there's any proof of what happened in the last election, there's an antiestablishment wave out there that she wants to ride. that's why many republicans view her as dangerous to their own power of structure, so there is a sense of concern about how to weigh this. i'm personally fascinated that there's no republican willing to take her on directly, to question her, her qualifications, her policy ideas. the only person that seems to be taking on sarah palin these days is lisa murkowski, another woman who dealt her a serious blow by winning in alaska. >> if i'm mitt romney, do i want

her getting in this and there will be other conservatives in it. so she divided that pie. >> i think i'm terrified at the idea of a sarah palin candidacy because she's really a base whisperer. she speaks to theç base in a w he doesn't and cannot. and she's -- i think she's the 800-pound gorilla in the race until she gives into it and the others are going to be waiting to see what she does. >> i guess i'm thinking if she gets in, she splits that conservative vote with newt, maybe huckabee. >> look, i think it's a great point. certainly huckabee won in iowa last time. if palin's in there, they could split the vote and that would benefit someone like romney who may be a more establishment choice, whatever you want to call it. i think that's one calculation. but still, mitt romney and others are concerned that if she

gets in the field, she can win it because at this point, she can really bring out the base. people love her. even though we haven't gotten to discussion about policy or solutions. >> jay, did you see anything in the tlc show that surprised you? >> no. that's sort of classic palin. when i was with her in alaska last year, she taught me how to spoke a salmon. i went out with her fishing. that's just very much her. she lights up when she talks about alaska. when you sit down to interview her, it's a completely different experience where she closes up, what do you want to know. but in alaska, she loves talking about it. >> it will be interesting to read the totality of what comes out in the "times" on sunday. thank you for your time. up next, some of the republican party's rising stars are its governors and despite

the party's electoral success, the republican governors association is putting more pressure on michael steele to give up his post.

here's a bombshell of bipartisanship. president obama will award the presidential medal of freedom to george herbert walker bush. the nation's highest civilian honor and the honorees including warn buffett, bill russell -- and civil rights activist john lewis among others. "hardball" will be right back. it was so complicated. there was a lot of information out there. but it was frustrating trying to get the answers i needed. then my company partnered with unitedhealthcare. they provided onsite screenings, healthy cooking tips. that's a recipe i'm keeping. ( announcer ) turning complex data into easy tools.

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welcome back to "hardball." republican governors are celebrating their big wins this week in san diego, but they're also looking toward 2012 and possible ousting of michael steele. joining me now, jonathan martin and john feehery. jonathan martin, you reported for politico something haleigh barbour said -- some might say steele deserves better than that given the recent success of the gop. >> he has his defenders and a

core of support on the rnc and there's no doubt this was a great year for republicans. i think haleigx =ui and critics are saying in some ways despite michael steele just because of the financial -- of the rnc, they did not raise a whole lot of money compared to more recent years and they did not fund the voters because of that lack of money in some key states. so the concern among votes like barbour is they left some races on the table this year because of the lack of funds at the rnc and looking towards 2012, there is a deep concern of not wanting to make the same mistakes financially when next time around, they're going to need more cash. >> john feehery, you can't beat somebody with nobody. >> there's a couple of candidates, one is an operations

genius. probably one of the best people we know to turn campaigns around and get funding. she has a wide experience in grass roots organizing and nic harris, really the rga took over a lot of slack from the rnc because the rnc just did not perform at top levels. i thi he knows what he's talking about. i think they are the two candidates people here in washington would like. >> here's another governor, governor mcdonnell of virginia earlier today. >> michael steele is a good person. he helped me tremendously last year when i ran for governor, but many of us have great concern about the fiscal state of the rnc, the lack of effort and effectiveness of the grass roots ground game. we lost a couple of close

elections that might have made a difference. >> it's not governor barbour of mcdonnell. where is his bedrock of support? >> he is lacking support when it comes to governors. no question about it. the past two days, the gop governors have met in private and talked about theabout, abou. i think there is overwhelmingç consensus that they want somebody else that is not michael steele. so that's the governors. but, keep in mind, the folks that are going to be voting on the next rnc chairman are now the nation's governors, they're the 168 members of the rnc. those are state level activists, those are state level gop chairmen. so this is not a smoke-filled room deal. this is going to be among gop activi activists. the governing body of the rnc. now, of course governors have influence with their state parties but they do not necessarily have sort of that direct access to leveraging

their vote. at least in most cases. so while you're seeing folks, and like john in washington, lie, the governors across the country, raising concerns about michael steele, this is a campaign that has taken place within the rnc's family. so there's an outside game and there's an inside game, michael. >> john feehery, we just showed a video clip of the new faces of the republican governors. who are the potential superstars on that stage? >> well, i really think -- like john kasich. when he was budget committee chairman he's somebody who's got a lot of passion and i think that he's going to be a terrific leader. you know looking at the governors entirely, i mean you've got a potential president in that group, you've got mitch daniels, who i think is a terrific governor. you know the thing that reminds me of these governors is what happened in the mid-'90s where you had john engle and tommy thompson who really pushed through the reforms. it's really where ideology meets the road and where ideology meets the policies. and these guys all have to actually balance the budget. they all have to actually do the

job. they can't just come up and pontificate here in washington, and i think that governors get away from the washington nonsense and actually have to govern and so that's why i think that you will see the next president out of that group. >> jonathan martin, a lot of firsts on that stage. take a look at some the firsts among the new republican governors. susannah martinez of new mexico. the first female hispanic governor. nikki haley, south carolina, first female. mary fallin, oklahomas first female governor. brian sandoval, nevada's first hispanic governor. it's face of diversity. >> well, and for a parent that's known as sort of a white guy's party, this was an important election year, and the operatives put a lot of effort into this. recruiting a more diverse array of faces to run for high office. and they had some early impressivp success. there are now two indian governors. both of them are republicans. so i think that they definitely made strides when it comes to minorities. however, there's obviously still work to do for the party. if you look at exit polling part

of the reason that the gop didn't fair as well out west this year is because of hispanics. so they still have that challenge when it comes to sort of moving beyond their core demographic group but there's no question about it, they have an easier case to make to attract minorities when they have folks out there who are being elected to stay in office who are themselves are minorities. >> john feehery, just a minute level and i'm also thinking that there were gains made in rust bem snats my own home. what are the politcam implications. where you've got gop governors as this n those on sort of state. >> the parent's more diverse, yes, but also it's more geographically diversed. able to compete more in the rust belt, compete much more effectively in the northeast. i think that we'll do very well in the midwest. and i think our message is going to be less southern-based and more national-base said and i think that's going fob -- speaks well for our campaigners in the next election. i think that we'll do very well. >> give me one name from that group that you have your eye on

as presidential timber, each fell oreal quick. >> well, i like haley barbour. i think that he's going to be president. >> haley barbour president. jonathan martin? >> i think it's certainly mitch daniels from indiana and governor barbour are two governors that you have to keep an eye on. down the road don't keep your eye off of bobby jindal of louisiana. >> bobby jindal. thank you. >> he's young. but down the road, snoou john fee here, jonathan martin, thank you. what i need to see to be convinced that the economy's getting strong again. you're watching "hardball." ♪ ...and brains. ♪ a phone that gets you to the stuff you love faster. only from at&t. rethink possible.

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and finally tonight, a word about the economy. every day offers yet another set of economic indices to examine. me, i don't know what to make of the data. i have a hard time distinguishing gdp from my gps. i hope the economy is turning around, but in order for me to believe it, i need tangible signs, results i can see, hear, smell, touch, appreciate. so i've developed my own list of economic indicators that will suggest things have really turned a corner. first, less pessimism. there's too much parroting of bad news taken becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and when jamcramer and the financial gurus say that we'll be on our way back we will be. second my wife and mother are both realtors. they safe they've got good product at affordable prices, low interest rates and still many buyers remain on the sidelines. when i hear from them that lower

and moderately priced product is moving again, that'll be a good sign. we get a number of magazines at our house. i mentally weigh them. many had been very thin in the last few years. i'm looking for fatter magazines. fourth, when professional sports teams stop calling my house offering low rates for partial season ticket plans, i'll know the country is bouncing back. here's another, when the market for discretionary things for kids, like piano lessons, improves. six, you have noid uptick in resume padding, via online classes, and expedited career training? keep an eye for when those services are less in demand.ç seventh, visit home depot on a saturday morning like i often do, and you'll see a lot that's jammed with weekend warriors. now i suspect many are doing work they would have once hired out. fewer cars at home depot might actually be a good thing. speaking of parking lots, we lock cracker barrel, every cracker barrel i pass is jammed but many fine-dining spots have