crowded, we'll be on our way. ninth, it will soon be christmas card season. cards and postage are expensive. many have stopped sending them. if this year's postage is heavy with seasons greetings, that will be a good sign. if the office holiday party is at a restaurant instead of the comedy lunch room, that's a good sign as well. that's "hardball" for now. "count down"as a with keith olbermann starts now. >> which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? >> republicans kill off the extension of unemployment insurance. >> the bill has not passed. >> mr. butstani of louisiana. the democrats vow to to try again at the end of the monthç and underscore the truth about the recipient. >> on the campaign trail, republicans call the unemployed

lazy. boy, you haven't met an unemployed person or you would never say that a second time to them. >> tax cuts. steny hoyer said democrats will get to vote this year on just the middle class cuts. nancy pelosi and the president say we need you to lead on tax cuts. gop congressmen seek to eliminate ethics -- well, the office of ethics. no, ethics. with matt taibi, john stewart is hateful and crazy and national public radio is the nazis. glad to see the tone improved. and no touching. the california county d.a. who says he will prosecutor any tsa screener who goes too far. >> we could prove the elements, that it was inappropriate, done with a sexual or lewd intent, that problem would be prosecuted.

>> for those who think this is like a police pat-down. >> i'm going to place my hand on your hip and the other on your inner thigh. >> the tsa versus the usa over t&a now featuring the aclu. all the news and commentary now on "countdown." there's no reason for it. good evening from new york. this is thursday, november 18th, 719 days until the 2012 presidential elections. seven days until thanksgiving and the start of the christmas season. just 12 days until unemployment insurance begins to expire for americans who have been out of work for more than six months. 800,000 americans will stop receiving unemployment insurance benefits in the first week of december alone. another 1.2 million for the remainder of that month. 5 million americans, plus spouses, children and other dependents on the line.

if congress does not renew these benefits which would cost for one year $65 billion, approximately the same as renewing the bush taxç cuts. in our fifth story tonight, when democrats brought a three-month extension to the floor today, the party that supports an infinite extension of bush tax cuts for the rich said no. republican congressman charles bum bustani wants to extend benefits to the unemployed. you'll notice how he expands his expression of sympathy with but -- >> the chairman of the committee expressed a great deal of impthree in his opening statement. we share that empathy. every share of our congressional offices dealt with families dealing with this tragedy of unemployment. but -- >> but what?

10,800 unemployed louisianans will lose their benefits next month unless congress does something this month. congress is gone next week for thanksgiving. what is the but? as the congressman, who wanted to be a lord, explained, the party that is hell bent on borrowing more than $700 billion to give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires knows that it would be wrong to borrow $12 billion to get middle class americans through christmas. >> the american people know it isn't right to add these costs to our already-overdrawn national credit card. they want -- we all want to help those in need. but the american people also know someone has to pay when government spends money. and it shouldn't be our children and our grandchildren. >> in fact, extending unemployment benefits during a recession has been a bipartisan tradition. for the last half century.

if only because the cost of doing so does not get passed on to the next generation. why not? because unemployment benefits stimulate economic growth, helping to keep the middle class, 2 out of 3 of america's unemployed in the middle class. literally creating jobs. the economic policy institute estimating that depending on the length of it, extending these benefitsç could jeb ragenerate equivalent of more than 700,000 full-time jobs. why did most vote against itted? >> they didn't. democrats brought it to the floor with what is called a suspension of the rules. this requires a two-thirds majority vote to pass. 258 voted for it, including 21 republicans. 154 voted against it, including 11 democrats. so it didn't pass. just for context, mr. bustani is not by a long shot the richest member of congress to vote against jobless benefits for the

unemployed. we'll tell you how many became millionaires and got richer as many suffered through the great recession. we're joined by one of those people being about to lose their unemployment benefits, jean riman of greenville, south carolina. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you for letting me come on, keith. >> you work in computer-aided design. then the company for which you work began to lay people off. you've been out since may 1st, 2009. how have you been getting by since then? >> primarily -- i had some savings and i had some money in 401(k). and i paid my house payment with that. the unemployment benefits i've received have been -- you know, they've been pretty much paying everything else, you know. >> the democrats are saying they plan to take another shot at passing this in the final two days of november after they come back from the thanksgiving break. what happens if what happens

today today or happened today if republicans block this measure? how do you get through christmas? >> i have no idea. i have no idea. and i'm not even as bad off as some people are. you know, i really feel sorry for people with children. i mean, what do you tell your kids? that you can't afford to have santa claus come? >> do you have any idea what happens next year? presumably at some point, the savings is gone. what goes next, there's no mortgage payment possible? >> well, actually, i've been making the mortgage payment out of the unemployment. gone. so i'm in a pretty precarious situation right now. i'm not even as bad off as a lot of people are. >> the republicans have been arguing that unemployment benefits give people incentive not to find work.

and the congressman in your own district voted against these benefits. do you have -- you have the national stage here, a small corner of it. what's your response to them and the argument we shouldn't and can't borrow money to pay for these benefits? >> my unemployment benefits are just very -- maybe a third of what i earned when i was working. you know, i don't really like living like this. i'm sorry. >> no, no. >> i don't like living like this. it's terrible that this gets kicked around all the time. what we've been through the last few months. you know, you go out and you start looking at the jobs and you'll see there's really not much demand for anything.

you know, people think, well, i'll go in the medical field and that way i'll be guaranteed a job. i have a cousin who's a recentlirecentl registered nurse who got laid off. people aren't going to the doctor like they did when they had health insurance. >> is this to your mind the country you thought you were living in where the argument was made that -- >> absolutely not. i mean, i can't believe that -- you know, that there's even any discussion about, you know, renewing unemployment benefits when there are so many people out of work. i think there are 8.5 million drawing unemployment right now. that doesn't include the 99ers, the ones who fell off the rolls a while back. >> and then more by march 1stç

fall off the rolls. jeanne reinman, we know it's the to some degree an invasion. we are deeply indebted to you about your time. i guess all we can do is wish you luck going forward. >> thank you, i appreciate that. >> thank you. good luck. in the year and a half, that jeanne watched her savings drain away, the members of congress saw their net worth increase dramatically. in 2008 through the end of 2009, their wealth growing by an average of 16%. this is according to a new study by the center of responsive politics. while americans lost their jobs and home and savings and their kids' college education fade from possibility, congress watched it its number of millionaires increase, 49%. nearly half of them. 261 out of 535 are now millionaires compared to 1% of america. 55 of them, more than 10%, are

worth $10 million. eight of those worth at least 100 million. the median wealth of every member of congress was 911, the richest of them, daniel issa of california with 3 million. let's bring in howard finemann. good evening, howard. we have a political party demanding money we borrow money to pay tax cuts on household income above a quarter million while it is refusing to borrow a lot less money so middle class americans can keep their homes and barely keep their heads above water. can you put that into context with the new studies on

congressional wealth? >> the members of congress don't have to suffer in silence on national television the way ms.ç reinman just did. i thought the most eloquent thing she did say was what see couldn't say. when she couldn't speak because of embarrassment and confusion, being in the situation she's in. that's what makes it so excruciating. the members of congress are insulated in many, many ways here. even though they're supposed to represent the people, i think the month they get here, or before they get here, given what it takes to run for office, a lot of them are self funders, it's their money, they keeps them even farther away from the people. >> do they not get they don't look like america? are they pushing for the tax cuts for $250,000 and up because

it benefits them? >> no. i don't think in most cases it's that. i think they're definitely cut off here, keith. it's the nature of politics that favors with they people who run. the washington area is not like the rest of america. a new forbes study showed that nine of the wealthiest counties in america are in the metropolitan washington area. in washington, you have platinum pensions, a member of the platinum class. you are now disengaged from middle class america. that's what's so stark about this gulf. it's not between the richest and the poorest. this is in the your grandfather's depression with the soup lines or your father's recession of 25 years ago. this is a thing where the gulf is between the leaders and the

led between the wealthy in congress and middle class people they used to be part of. >> what happens now? do democrats cave on these bush tax cuts for the rich in order to extend the unemployment benefits? and how does the gop justify borrowing twice as much for that? >> first of all, the problem is that theç white house sort of pre-caved. they signaled their willingness to accept something short of a permanent extension of tax cuts on the wealthy. once they did that, that empowered the republicans to think they could roll through without any compromise whatsoever. the situation of this lame duck is becoming far more of a defining period of congress for president obama and the democrats than they ever figured it would be. the republicans are in no mood to compromise. the republicans are willing to take the bet that barack obama and the democrats aren't going to want to risk abolishing the tax cuts for even, at least temporarily in some kind of

crisis, than to take the republicans on in this situation. so i don't know that that's how the unemployment benefits will be extended. i couldn't say for sure that that's a deal that will be made. i don't think the republicans are going to be in any mood to do it. >> they don't live in this world. they don't live in this country. i think we'd be better off in they didn't live in this country. but that's my opinion's not howard finemann's. those tax cuts again. mixed messages from the dems. nancy pelosi and harry reid demand tax cuts from the white house. next. king king like, this is such a great opportunity for us to write at least an hour to two every single day. you can see this? of course i can see you. but, steve, i'm thinking-- it's like you're standing-- it's like you're standing right there. it's like i'm touching you. yeah. introducing cisco umi, together we are the human network.

cisco. it's like i'm talking to you from the future.

he tells house teams they will get to vote this year on extending tax cuts for the middle class. his leaders tell the white house we need you to lead on this topic. his new transparent way in washington includes making the office of congressional ethics thin enough to see through. i'm glad the appeal to change

the tone has resonated. roger ayers called him hateful and crazy. and all hands. this story is not going away. the aclu involved. maybe a district attorney in california. copping a feel is not counter terrorism ahead on "countdown." i couldn't conceive this as a heart attack. the doctor leaned over and said to me, "you just beat the widow-maker." i was put on an aspirin, and it's part of my regimen now. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go see your doctor now. before you begin an aspirin regimen. hey, babe. oh, hi, honey! so i went to the doctor today, then picked up a few extra things for the baby. oh, boy... i used our slate card with blueprint. we can design our own plan to avoid interest by paying off diapers and things each month. and for the bigger stuff, we can pay down our balance faster to save money on interest. bigger? bigger.

slate from chase gives you extraordinary control over how you pay for life's surprises. trip...lets... slate customers pay down their balances twice as fast with blueprint. with the public still firmly in support of their view on the issue, democrats may be slouching toward holding a vote on tax cuts for the middle class. nothing is ever simple. some democratic leaders are frustrated that the president has not set a clear strategy for

tax cuts in front of the gop. steny hower informed colleagues there would be a vote on extending tax cuts for just the middle class. today's senate majority leader, harry reid, said he would like to see both the democratic and the republican version of extending bush tax cuts go up for a vote. it sounded like the better of the two would prevail. >> the question is do i think the president's backing for middle income tax cut only. i say yes. >> according to politico, mr. reid and nancy pelosi asked president obama to adopt a tough bargaining position. another senator said, the white house needs to stand firm and say we're not giving tax cuts to millionaires in this country. in a meeting today at the white house, the president asked democratic leaders to come up with their compromise plans before the leaders go into the november 30th white house

meeting. it just so happens that the 39% favor the extension of middle class tax cuts. just 23% favoring the gop position of extending all tax cuts permanently. meanwhile, advocating for more tax cuts, congressman mike pence, managed to admit that the bush tax cuts actually did not work. >> jim demint and i are offeringa legislation on capitol hill to say, look, let's make all the current tax rates permanent. and then let's start to work from there. toward putting in place the kind of policies that will really get this economy moving again. i think it's fair to say if the current tax rates were enough to create jobs and generate economic growth, we'd have a growing economic. it's not working now. >> you're not willing to compromise? you're not willing to say -- >> let's turn to former labor secretary under president clinton, professor of public policy at uc-berkeley, robert

reich. thank you for some of your time tonight, sir. >> good evening, keith. >> progressives in the house have been pushing for a vote on the middle class cuts, daring republicans to vote against it. >> i think some democrats are worried about being labeled a tax increaser or maybe class warriors. something. they're very intimidated by the republican machine, the fox news machine. that's not all democrats. there is an intimidation favor among the democrats, particularly after what happened a couple of weeks ago in the mid-terms. there is also, let's face it, another factor. that is that some democrats are dependent and are drinking of the same trough in terms of campaign contributions as the republicans with regard to rich people who are making campaign

contributions to both sides. >> if the republicans are in sort of the third stage of class warfare, just shy of actual gunfire, if their members in the house and senate are in the tax bracket that would beç most benefited by the upper class tax cuts on which they are voting, surely the issue of class warfare, that war already started. why won't the democrats admit that and participate and fire back? >> obviously, they should. i hope they have the courage of their conviction. this is the lame duck congress. come january, the republicans will be in charge. if the democrats and the obama administration wants to make it clear to the public leading up to 2012 who they stand for, who the democrats stand for and who the republicans stand for, this is the showdown. they've got to say, middle class tax cuts, yes. no tax cuts for people at the very top. >> the senate is obviously more

complicated in part because of some of the democratic senators who want the tax cuts suspended temporarily. is that division in that party what could extend the clean vote on this and ensure some compromise with republicans? >> yes, it might. we've seen this before. this is not a new phenomenon. we saw you it with health care and the public option and financial reform and the refusal of certain democrats to go along with any cap on the size of big banks. you know, senate democrats don't like to stay disciplined like senate republicans. i mean, perhaps it's in the genes. maybe authoritarian personalities drift to the republican party and a thousand different personalities bloom to the democratic party. but senate democrats ve a hard time voting together. >> i would direct you to the book "conservatives without

conscience" to answer your question. the short answer is yes. following what nancy pelosi suggested, do you think that this one needs to take a more rigid stance on this, even at this late hour? some message from president obama could make a difference? >> yes.ç i would say bold stance. he should say we're mot going to have tax cuts for the very top. the top 1% is taking home a quarter of all income right now. they got the lion's share of the bush tax cuts. it will blow a big hole in the budget deficit. why are we in danger of not extending unemployment insurance? we cannot afford to get a tax cult. the president is going to make that very, very clear. there is confusion in the ranks as to what he believes. >> former labor secretary,

robert reich. republicans' circular firing squad. the ohio tea party versus john boehner on his bid to hamstring to destroy the office of congressional ethics. [ male announcer ] one look can turn the everyday into romantic.

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john boehner double-teamed. the tea party is mad at him and supporters of ethics in congress, if and.ç the sanity break and the tweet of the day. he's a dead ringer. andy borowitz.

chilean minors to appear on cnn. why would they want to go down into another deep hole? to get some time away from the spotlight. let's play "oddball." buenos aires. we wander into the upper house of the parliament. this lawmaker is in the process of giving a speech. the fellow lawmaker decides to give a clever resort, using her hand of the god. she later explained herself by saying, he wore me out. i've been putting up with him all yearlong. he kept shouting without putting out a single proposal. >> decatur, alabama, on the move a runaway cow steering his way through the streets. residents looking at his hoofed it up down the roaded.

when the owner was informed that his cow had had escaped, he was in utter disbelief. the internet's the wonderful world of infomercials. the video is in spanish. i'll provide a translation. cool. look at this unbreakable piece of cookware. i'll throw it to the ground. watch this. and boom goes the dynamite. we can't do this all day. quick, go to the next product. >> look at that horse. the bushy tail, the big teeth, the hooves. my producer just told me this isn't a horse. it's a butterfly. >> where is that slapstick guy when you need him? he's on production. >> he is not going to be reported to the house ethics office. the tea party of his own state attacks him. we watch with calm amusement

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to hear john boehner tell it he's had it with business as usual in washington. in our third story, his most recent maneuvering couldn't be more clear. determining whether to make an independent agency on ethics disappear. how's that for transparency such the office of congressional ethics facing the chopping block. brendon buck, spokesman for the it transition office said that mr. bauner will take a look at current ethics rules. don't hold your breath. ethics have not really been the focus of our transition office. two members of the transition team were previously investigated by the agency we're talking about. hencerly of texas and campbell

of california. the nonpartisan sunlight foundation which has been working with gop leaders believes the leadership won't vote publicly to kill the oce but will quietly defund it next year. the office was first proposed b swamp after abramoff. one group is questioning boehner. the ohio liberty council. a coalition of tea party groups. president chris littleton said if theyç move in the opposite direction of transparency i think we will be very upset about that. symbolically it's a huge problem for them. they should be as transparent as they can be. any opposition would be inappropriate on their part. here with me now, contributing editor for rolling stone, matt taibi. the saenlagency is independent.

it recommended censure for charlie rangel. >> there is no reason to get rid of this agency. you couldn't imagine anything more of what the tea party is about. you have to be a private citizen to serve on the oce. in reality, if they were actually real about these ethics issues, they not only wouldn't kill this agency, they would enhance it by giving it subpoena power. the fact that they're considering getting rid of it tells you a lot about the divide in the republican party. there's really going to be this bureaucratic defense that boehner will be trying to push while the tea party will be firmly in favor of more transparency. >> one of the 57 different tea parties will try to primary boehner in 2012. there's a purpose if it benefits

the country only once in a while. is there any way to save this outfit? >> i don't think so. here's the problem with that. even if they kick up an enormous storm right now -- there's a bipartisan outcry from the left and the right which could happen -- i think you and i would agree with the tea party. even if there's an outcry, what will probably happen is that they won't vote against it. they'll defund it sometime later in the year. we'll all get a first class education in wagon circling. they'll find a way to get rid of this thing almost no matter what we do. >> the other route towards death by a thousand paper cuts is the gop hand-picking tom aides to staff the key committee in capitol hill offices and rossters of k street. there's another way to get around this outfit. you've got the professionals who know how to beat ethics raps.

you put them anywhere near an ethics committee, guess who's going to win. >> that's no surprise. the new house leadership you is almost entirely madeup of guys who have very intimate ties with k street and lobbyists. boehner goes back with steve clark. these are all financial services lobbyists. i think the reality is that they're going to bring in the same old guys who were if place back when tom it delay and dennis hastert were running things. it will be business as usual. >> is this the first domino in a cascade of a million? there goes the ethics office. what's next on the immediate targets of either being blitzed or defundeded? >> they made a lot of promises about procedure, specifically with putting cameras in the rules committee and making sure all the bills are available for public perusal for 72 hours before they're voted on. i think they'll make a lot of

promises there. my sense is they were never going to follow through with that. neither party made go with promises regarding reforming procedures. i don't see that really happening. >> great. just what we need, richer people voting on stuff for the middle class with no one to watchdog them. fantastic. it sounds like we ought to be standing outside washington wearing cloex aaks and infracam. >> this is the place where there could be a positive place for movements like that. i don't see real movement happening on this particular issue. both the republicans and key groups on the democratic side have been against the oce. the conditional black caucus has been in favor of defanging this agency too. there are going to be alliances formed in the congress, powerful alliances to get rid of this thing. >> you don't hit the

congressman's union like this. mr. boehner reappears in "worst persons." the speaker-elect still terrorized by çhim. the description sounds like lap dance rules at strip clubs you as the aclu and attorney general move in. are the new pat-down feel-ups even legal? when rachel joins you, even as the revived gm goes out on its corporate own, why conservatives say rescuing you it was the wrong thing to do. [ k. tyrone ] i'm an engineer. my kids say i speak a different language. but i love math and math and science develop new ideas. we've used hydrogen in our plants for decades. the old hydrogen units were very large. recently, we've been able to reduce that. then our scientists said "what if we could make it small enough to produce and use hydrogen right on board a car, as part of a hydrogen system." this could significantly reduce emissions and increase fuel economy by as much as 80%.

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you like your junk photographed or justç fondled? further push-back against the tsa. time's for today's nominees for the worst persons in the world. the bronze for bonnie usher. police in new hampshire for sticking up a rite-aide. she was identified for the getaway car. she was arrested because the car had a vanity license plate which read b. usher.

silver to roger ayles. about john stan stewart. he hates conservative views. he loves polarization. liberals and conservatives are all getting along, how good would that show be? it would be a bomb. >> thanks for moving my point about false equivalence. aside to mr. stewart, jon, i told you so. i might disagree with you but i'd never think you were crazy or hateful. mahr is right. one side sticks to the facts and the other is close to playing with its poop. national public radio. they are, he says, of course, nazis. they are the left wing of naziism. these guys don't wanted any other point of view. they're basically air america

with government funding to keep them alive. golly. i wonder where beck and o'reilly get the idea it's okay to call everybody nazis. by the way, they are basically air america with funding to keep them alive. npr get less than 6% of their money from the federal government. don't talk about things you don't understand, like the actual news business. our winner, speaker-elect boehner and senator lindsey graham, responding to the conviction, i terror suspect. boehner, the decision to try terrorists in civilian court was the wrong one. he got 20 years. the reason he didn't get more, they had to throw out the evidence extracted under torture, just as they would have under a military court. and torture is the republican idea.ç also if gahlani had been

acquitted on all counts he still would not have been free. >> we are at war with al qaeda. members should be treated as warriors, not common criminals. two years ago, senator graham applauded the conviction of hamdan, bin ladin's bodyguard. graham said, i hope alla americans will as well. the tribunal gave him only 5 1/2 years. boehner and graham, not reacting to the gahlani verdict but acting all terrorized. today's "worst persons in the world." ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] some people just know how to build things well.

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tonight, the junk heard roun the way continues to reverberate from sea to shining sea. ron paul's new bill would prevent the tsa from groping passengers in california. one california d.a. is promising prosecution for any agent who crosses the line. the american traveler dignity act was submittedç to the hous of representatives last night. employees of the federal government are not allowed to see nor touch your stuff. >> if you can't grope another person and if you can't x-ray people and endanger them with possible x-ray, you can't take nude photographs of individuals, why do we allow the government to do it? we would go to jail if an individual -- he would be immediately arrested if an individual citizen did these things. yet we sit there and calmly say, they're making us safe.

>> in california, san mateo county, home to san francisco international airport, the district attorney put the tsa on notice. telling the san francisco tv station his office has yet to receive a complaint related to inappropriate touching by airport security. but if it did -- >> the case would be reviewed. if we could prove the elements of it, that it was inappropriate, done with a sexual or lewd intent, that person would be prosecuted. >> exactly when does a security check turn into molestation? those who have not been to an airport recently is that pat-downs are like police frisks. the procedure the tsa agent is warning him about is not a frisk. >> we'll be doing the standard pat-down on you it today. using my hands going like this. also, we're going to be doing a

groin check. i'll place my hand on your hip and your inner thigh and slowly go up. two time in the front and two times in the back. if you'd like a private screening, we can make that available for you also. >> we can do that out here. but if you touch my junk, i'm going to have you arrested. >> my hand on your hip. my hand on your thigh four times. >> a security expert explained all this is useless and none is done in israel. he didn't splexplain why. another expert did. last december, he described it to the toronto star newspaper. first,ç there are roadside ches outside the airport. drivers are asked, how are you and where are you coming from. according to sala, the questions aren't important. travelers are randomly pulled asided to have their luggage scanned. a trained interviewer asks, who

packed your luggage. the whole time they're looking into your eyes, which is very embarrassing. this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. it takes 20, 25 seconds. suspicious packages would not cause an entire airport to be evacuated, just an evacuation of the screening area, which is fortified behind blast-proof glass. one more behavior observation. then it's bon voyage, no nudity, no groping. joining me now, chris calabrese with the civil liberties union. is the aclu involved in any way yet? and do you anticipate you will be? >> we have a complaint form up. we've had it for two weeks. we've gotten more than 300 complaints. it's clear that people are upset. whether we'll get involved or not, we'll have to see what the complaints look like. >> at this stage, is there any other recourse for people who think they've been violated or misled about what this thing constitutes. >> you hate to say it.

the old saw, call your congressman really applies here. tsa backed down from doing these things in the past. it's clear congress is aware. they're getting a lot of complaints. nobody likes to be congress. i think congress is aware of it. we'll see if tsa blinks. >> there are all sorts of legal terms and vernacular terms. is grope a legal term? have you looked into what the meaning of this is? >> it's a vernacular term. i think it's the most accurate description. >> the israeli standpoint, why wouldn't the usa want to emulate what's been going on there with obvious 99.999% success rates. >> the focus on intelligence gathering and stopping people before they get to the airport, that's something the president said after the christmas bomber was something we had fallen down on the job in terms ofç

intelligence gathering. that's something we would want to focus on. some of the more detailed procedures at the israeli airports don't scale up in the united states. we're too big and too diverse for some of those procedures. >> there was a cbs news poll that found that more than 80% of americans right now are okay with the full body scan if it makes flying safer. we know that the body scans are supposed to be deleted after they are used. we know from this florida courthouse case some of them stay in the machine. the number was 35,000 in this one machine. what does the level of support for the technology tell you about what people are willing to trade for safety and how many people haven't flown recently? >> that is a key point. i think that's really interesting in that poll is that people were willing to trade for safety and security. but the government accountability officed after the body scanners were rolled out,

tsa didn't know that the body scanners would have caught the christmas bomber. they didn't have evidence of that. we're trading something. it's not clear what we're getting in turn. >> to that point, have you heard anybody say what would be done at an american airport if the p pat-had downs or feel-ups showed something in somebody's underwear? has there been an explanation of what the safety measure would follow that. it seems it's awful late to be following that. you're in a crowd where something could be just as impactful as if it happened on a plane. >> it's a great question. it's not clear with a pat-down you'll always be able to find things. imagine that's a colostomy bag or someone's adult diapers.

they're militaryihumiliating se. it's not clear they're thought through. they came out with a statement yesterday saying screening procedures are inadequate. they're not getting training on the job or beforehand. we're unleashing this incredibly indasive gropes without the proper training and wondering why things are going wrong. >> in the familiar yesterday, the tsa adda min straighter said to the congress that reasonable people can disagree on the balance of safety and instrugz in this new safety. is there anything to be read between the lines of that new statement? >> i think he should be a little more reasonable. that's kind of -- >> a perfect answer. chris calabrese of the aclu. let us know if you get involved. >> we will. thank you very much. >> that's november 18th, 16 days since republicans took control of the