i talked too long about groping at the airport. we have time for one quick e-mail. >> michael says, i'm wondering if i show up at the airport naked, will i have to go through the scanners. >> you have regular line, the priority access, the full nudity line. mike barnicle says you just get right there. "morning joe" starts right now. let's not kid ourselves. the terrorists are adaptable. they start doing whatever they can to try to cause harm, and when you have people who are willing to die in order to kill

americans and others, you've got folks putting explosives in their underwear. who would have thought that? striking the right balance is what this is about. and i am absolutely confident that our security experts are going to keep trying to get it better and less intrusive and more precise. >> i understand howdy it is and how offensive it must be for the people who are going through it. >> final question. my time is up, but would you submit to one of these pat-downs? >> not if i could avoid it. who would? >> i understand how she feels. good morning. it's monday, november 22nd. with us onset, msnbc krint tore mike barnicle, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin and "time" magazine deputy washington bureau chief michael crowley, and from washington, msnbc political analyst pat buchanan. pat, your take on the pat-downs?

>> i agree with hillary clinton. you've got to find the right balance. the roll-out has been disastrous. it's been all over the drudge, all over the news, when you're asking the president and vice president or secretary of state and president about it, but i do think, look, there is a real problem of security when that guy in detroit put the liquid in the underwear. >> there really is. you've got to be careful. >> back of the hand, please. >> she's very professional. >> i think i see something. >> you don't. >> clear? >> you missed something. >> i did? okay, well. excuse me. that felt like the tsa. pat, willie is clear. >> willie is clear. >> i'm going to skip barnicle. he's not a threat. >> profile barnicle. >> i'll profile him. ambassador richard holbrooke will be here. steve rattner will be here as

well and tsa administrator john pistole will be here as well. not to make light of it, what are they supposed to do? i don't get it. what are they supposed to do? >> people are inconvenienced, there's no doubt about it. >> of course, and insulted, except for willie. >> at the tsa they have to be on top of their game every single moment of the day. some terrorist only has to get lucky once. >> but you can put a bomb in your tooth. >> having been subject to this procedure, not in the pleasant way you just did it but at an airport last week, this will not stand. there's just no way. the choice is, a lot of radiation for someone like me who travels a lot or the pat-down. neither is acceptable. we need a solution that protects us, but is actually going to sustain -- >> everyone does a really good job of saying that. no one can tell me what the solution s. what is it? there's nothing. >> it seems like this is a country where we have one hot

war raging, winding down another war in iraq. terrorists coming at us from all directions and our day today lives have been largely unaffected. we talk about sacrifice in a time of war. it's not happening. there's this minor inconvenience people are having to go through. it's not ideal. we should fix it. i think people getting very upset that's not that big a deal in the general context -- >> have you been subjected to it? >> i haven't. i'm speaking like a man who has. >> wait till you're subjected to it. it's not a minor inconvenience. >> barnicle went in three times. >> i did. >> he made an appointment. >> i understand the radiation thing and the machines. but what does it say about us as a culture that we get more bent out of shape about this issue than we do about massive unemployment, people in this country fighting two wars for us? what does it say about snus. >> we'll talk to pat more about this. the head of the transportation security administration john

pistole is now softening his stance on innovative new airport screening procedures. he says, in part, quote, this has always been viewed as a program that will be adapted as conditions warrant. we greatly appreciate the cooperation and understanding of the american people. however, he gave no indication that the changes were imminent. this comes hours after business stolee said while full body scans and pat-downs could be intrusive and uncomfortable, terror threats require their use. >> it's a difficult question, candy. there's no doubt, and i understand the public debate. i'm sympathetic to it. >> but you're still not going to change anything? >> no, not going to change. >> meanwhile president obama suggested the tsa would look for ways to alter screening techniques. >> i understand people's frustrations. what i've said to the tsa is that you have to constantly refine and measure whether what we're doing is the only way to

assure the american people's safety. and you also have to think through are there ways of doing it that are less intrusive? >> representative john mika is set to become the transportation secretary in january was even more critical. >> i don't think the rollout was good. and the application is even worse. this does need to be refined. we've got them also headed in the wrong direction as far as who they're screening and how they're doing it. >> according to a new report from an airline consultant and blogger there is, quote, quiet resentment within the tsa about the new procedures. one agent has been quoted as saying this, molester, pervert, disgusting and embarrassment creep. these are all words i've heard today at work describing me. i should -- >> me, too. >> that's a different issue, barnicle. but i'm glad you have someone you can connect with now and relate with. i should not have to go home and

cry after a day of honorably serving my country. >> if you don't like the policy, it's true. do you think the tsa enjoy groping fat middle aged business travelers' groins. >> that's one way to put it. >> everyone saying there's got to be a better way. i'm all ears. what is the better way? >> look, the guys who brought in cocaine in bags, swallowed it and in his body cavity put a bomb in it, went into a saudi security minister and blew himself up and almost killed that guy. a scanner would have picked that up. i'm sympathetic with the security guys. they're trying to keep us all alive and trying to figure out a way. i don't have any way they've been suggesting. >> we've side stepped the key question this raises. what a lot of people would argue the a better way is a system that profiles based on how did you buy your ticket? is it a one-way ticket? are you a foreign national? did you pay cash?

there are some people who want to profile based on your nationality, possibly your ethnicity. that's the debate that's starting to emerge that's more substantive. we had this debate right after 9/11. there's a lot of evidence it doesn't really work even though intuitively you think it would. i think that debate is back. >> there's also something that creates howling in this country, a tamper-proof national identity card that has laser technique. you have your identity card, you show it, you flash it, you get the fast pass lane or whatever at airports and zip right through. >> but what's drudge going to do with the national identity card, big brother is tracking -- >> right now everyone is getting groped. what's the sdmifrns. >> better, safer machines, some profiling and a card is the slugsz that's sustainable. this is not sustainable. the president should call -- he should call them in today and ask them to perform the procedure on him and then we'll have a new policy by tomorrow.

>> in the last analysis, you've got to be -- if a tsa guy is very suspicious of someone and he thinks he might have it on him, i think he's got an abrogation to do a pat-down quite frankly. >> okay. >> the other solution would be to hire really attractive tsa agents. >> there you go. >> i actually think they're in a no-win situation. this has to be done. i mean i'm sorry that it's intrusive and i'm very sorry that people are insulted. the alternative is we risk something. >> god for did big happens because of lax oversight. what happens then to the personnel? the issue itself? you can imagine. >> mika, to mike's point, there was a guy up there in boston at that airport who saw mohammed atta and he said, if i've ever seen a guy that looked like a tear rifrt, this was it.

he said that would be wrong, i'm profiling somebody. if he had stopped and said, buddy, i've got to check you out because of my concern. maybe he's profiling him. but you might have saved an awful lot of lives. >> absolutely. >> we're going to actually have the head of the tsa on the show. moving on now, the associated press reports there are growing signs that u.s. and nato forces have worn out their well come in afghanistan, despite plans to stay in the country for at least another four years. the report comes as the white house insists that the u.s. has committed to transferring power over by the end of 2014. >> we're intent upon reaching the goal of transitions to afghan security in 2014. but both the united states and nato isap partners have said that, of course, we'd be willing to help train and equip the afghan military, not just the

united states and others. >> what about permanent bases? >> tles there's been no decision whatsoever about that. >> is that something the u.s. is considering? >> there's no consideration. it's not on the table at this point. >> do you believe table over security within four years? >> i do believe as best we understand things right now that's very much a reachable goal. there's a lot to do between now and then clearly. very dangerous place, a tough fight we're in right now. we certainly understand that. that's a goal that president karzai set out there and that all nato allies, actually all countries who are providing forces because there are some 20 other countries doing that, have signed up to. and we think it's reachable. >> such a good point, mike. i have to get to the next sound bite. but you're right, talk about an inconvenience. >> this is the lead story, four more years of war in afghanistan, that makes it 13 years in afghanistan, plus iraq, thousands of casualties and our

lead story was about inconveniencing domestic airline passengers in the united states. >> i think the men and women in afghanistan -- >> they'd be willing to be patted down. >> the comments follow a pledge by president obama during the nato summit that the u.s. would stand by afghanistan when it hands over security. >> i've made it clear that even as americans transition and troop reductions will begin in july, we'll forge a long-term partnership with the afghan people. today nato has done the same. this leaves no doubt that as afghans stand up and take the lead, they will not be standing alone. >> mark halperin, we've come out of the nato summit with 2014 but with ifs, ands or butts. this seems to be dragging and dragging and dragging. >> the president has a lot of different audiences to play to. there's an american public, not very engaged, but clearly by 2012, the president has to give some an zers about where it's going.

there's the nato community which is actually i think due to the president's working this hard is pretty much on board for the same kind of timetable. there's the afghan domestic audience where there's a lot of resentment about the united states' continued presence. i think the white house is kicking the can down the road and keeping the options open. >> there was a report out at the end of last week with shocking numbers. men in southern afghanistan, helmand and kandahar provinces, 92% of them didn't know anything about 9/11, the whole reason we're there. i talked to someone who works on afghan policy, they think 9 slshl 11 was a retaliation of us after we invaded. 55% said they thought we were there to conquer their country or destroy islam. this is a population that thinks we're there to disstroi islam, doesn't know why we're there in the first place. some people think the soviets never left.

karzai is taking cash from the iranians. we are so far away from getting this thing stabilized, even four years sounds like a long time in some sense. >> do you know what the median age is afghanistan? about 18 years of age. good luck to us. >> before we go, pat buchanan. >> i think that's right only 8% of the afghan men in helmand knew about 9/11. they think we're there as an occupying power like other occupying powers. how do you turn that around? i agree with mark's point. i don't think they've got four more years here. i think this is going to be a major issue in 2012. >> we'll talk to ambassador richard holbrooke about this and many other issues coming up on the show today. ireland becomes the latest european country to require a multi billion dollar bailout. your business on the go headlines are out. politico reveals what probably cost sharron angle the election against harry reid in

nevada. and the sunday night fight for first place. does michael vick make the ekeless the best team in the nfc east? highlights ahead. first let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good monday morning, mika. we have travel issues out there today. let's get to it. first off, d.c. area down to virginia, t.j., any time throw up the capitol shot from washington. foggy conditions, dense fog from richmond all the way to the washington, d.c. area. it's going to be cloudy pretty much to start your morning. temperatures are very mild from d.c. up to new york. boston is even mild today. the only people that need the umbrella, buffalo, rochester, syracuse into albany. detroit to toledo, southward to indianapolis, rain for you. chicago, thunderstorms will arrive later today. the coldest of the weather in the northern plains. fast forwarding tuesday into wednesday, all the problems in the mid of the country. east coast looks good for our busy travel day. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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an american life by ronald reagan. >> a people stubbornly determined to rid itself of tyranny was rising up in a final historic upwelling of freedom. >> my life, by bill clinton. >> my bitterest critics sought safety in a place where they could judge and not be judged. >> decision points by george w. bush. >> i poisoned dorothy goldfish by pouring vodka in the fish bowl. good.

we could go on for months with quotes from this book. there's a lot in the book, isn't there barnicle. you've read it. it's a doozy. >> i'm going to take a look at that over thanksgiving. time for a look at the morning papers. boston globe, this holiday shopping season, an overwhelming number of massachusetts consumers plan to spend the same or less than last year according to a new poll by the newspaper and suffolk university. >> dallas morning news, a winnings stream, jon kitna gets a hug from head coach jason garrett. they beat detroy for the first home win of the season. >> "new york times" business section, the seventh harry potter movie opened to a jaw-dropping $330 million in global ticket sales over the weekend. this after a year-long full-court press advertising campaign by warners brothers. >> "wall street journal," the big business story of the morning, ireland accepts a multi billion dollar euro bailout conceding it needs outside help

to shore up public finances and ailing banks. that brings us to the business on the go report. here is nicole lapin from cnbc headquarters. ireland refused to seek out a bailout initially. but they changed their mind? >> they changed their mind yesterday, formally asking for tens of billions to bail them out. this comes after months after trying but failing to survive on their own. this is also the second time in about six months that they're asking for help. and this is after a week of insisting that, look, they were just fine. not so much the case. details are still getting hammered out. we know it's a three-year plan with eu and imf. ireland for their part must contribute a $20 billion four-year austerity plan on their own. the u.k. will contribute about $11 gill billion in bilateral loans to ireland. it's not specifically about ireland. it's riley the risk of contagion.

will portugal be next, spain be next? that's the concern there. >> a quick look ahead to wall street. a short week, right? >> it is. markets are closed for the thanksgiving day holiday. futures are higher of course. so we are looking ahead to hp out of the close and looking to see whether or not this is the big kahuna, the last one of the big holiday earnings season, holiday shopping season. is that going to drive us through the next six weeks. so mika, we're a little bit of a funk, if you will, this pre holiday funk. >> nicole lapin, we'll try to get out of the funk. thanks for joining us. good to have you back. willy. >> joining us now, politico's patrick gavin with a look at the politico playbook. >> let's go back to the midterm elections. analysts still trying to break down what happened in some of the raceless. in the case of sharron angle, who lost the race for the senate seat in nevada? politico reporting she had a dysfunctional campaign. some people say harry reid ran a

great ground campaign. but you've got report in on what she might have done wrong. >> once the election is over, what's great is they get all these stories leaking out that they couldn't talk about during the time. one of them, my colleague unearthed which is looking at, so many people thought harry reid ran a great campaign and he did. i think his opponent ran just as much as a dysfunctional campaign as he did a good campaign. it really comes down to one of the campaign managers, terry campbell, a staffer for the nrsc says there was a sequel to "dumb and dumber," describing the levels of dysfunction he brought to the campaign. let me give you examples. he almost axed an appearance by john mccain as he was coming to nevada to campaign for sharron angle. he didn't know barack obama visited nevada to campaign for harry reid.

voice mail was always full. he never returned e-mail. he had a billboard of sharron angle going down the las vegas strip except it's almost exclusively filled with tourists who can't run anymore and running ads in closed circuits of jichls or even hiring a sky write tore campaign for her in the sky. all the stories are cometh out for this guy and what aides are saying is not a very functional campaign tochlt a certain extent, it contributed to her loss. >> yeah. but you're the one hiring them, right? >> that's very true. she has a long history with this guy, sort of a bond that is very, very tight. that was part of the problem is you really couldn't go against him because going against him was going against the candidate. staffers did their best to try to isolate him and work around him. the reality is that he had the inner ear of sharron angle. for the most part he got his way a lot of the time. >> sky writing doesn't make the difference, note to campaign managers. >> i'll remember that. >> let's go to alas karks senator lisa murkowski, on her

way to officially becoming the first write-in candidate for senate in more than half a century. she can also claim another title. what is it? >> she's the only person to lose to a sarah palin endorsed tea party candidate and win and go on to washington losing to joe miller and beating him as a write-in candidate. she did that on sarah palin's own turf. this is presenting an interesting situation. she could sort of become a joe liebermanesque centrist. we've seen her show some signs of that. a little more open. she's really going after palin, really going after jim demint. her future, now that she has this new base of support is going to be different going forward. >> lisa murkowski is the joe lieberman. >> she's going to be a big deal because she'll have an independent voice and the only person in national politics to go against sarah palin.

we'll see if she keeps it up in 2011. >> back to sharron angle, what did we learn from her campaign about stonewalling the media and sky writing. >> both can be effective if done the right way. >> patrick, thanks so much. when we come back, a late-night fight in philly. could the giants slow down the new and improve michael vick? we have the full day of nfl highlights ahead. also the ranking nobody wants. which u.s. cities top this year's most dangerous list. new york city make a little news in this story. we'll be right back. this new jetta is awesome. yeah, right now during sign then drive, you can take home a volkswagen for just your signature. really? that's great. yeah.

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a foggy morning in w washington, d.c. there is mixed reaction after pope benedict announce thad the catholic church's ban on condoms could be partially lifted. in a new book, benedict said condoms can be justified for some people, including male

prostitutes looking the stop the spread of hiv. catholic reformers and aids advocates have welcomed the news, although others warn it could be a pandora's box opened. still the vatican says the pope's comments shouldn't be seen as a, quote, revolutionary development and that the church still forbids the use of them as a contraceptive. pat? >> let me say this, they're talking frankly to get into the grisly details about male prostitutes and other men. since that doesn't have anything to do with the transmission of light, that's perfectly understandable. i do agree with the folks that says this opens up the issue in all kinds of circumstances are going to be debated on this. i'm not sure it was a wise thing to do. but then i don't give counsel to the holly father. >> no, you don't. barnicle, would you like to comment? i think it's fascinating. >> i think it's something the fact that the pope uttered the word con dumb.

that is a huge development. >> good for him that a religious leader is not in denial about what really happens in the world. there are people getting sick and dieing because there's misinformation and stigma about this. >> you also agree this opens up a -- >> let the church grapple with reality in a more substantial way where it tries to stick its head in stand about what really happens in the world we live in in. >> pope john paul ii, my family had the pleasure of meeting them. my mother immediately went there, on the issue of birth control. very awkward. that's a big story. we'll follow that one. a new study finds that st. louis is the nation's most dangerous city. camden, new jersey, which topped last year's list came in second. detroit, flint, michigan and oakland, california round out the top five. new york city, not even cracking the top 200, coming in at 269th.

the annual rankings are based on population fact yurs and crime data compiled by the fbi. >> look at that picture. no crime whatsoever in that picture, chop per 4. >> we love you may your bloomberg. is that what you're saying, will willie? >> yes. the "new york daily news" is reporting that michael broom berg's proposed budget cuts have at least one major benefit, slimmer prison inmates. bloomberg wants to slash prisoner rations from eight whole wheat slices of bread a day to six. >> starving prisoners. >> that's not starving, that's good eating. in order to save the city some $350,000 a year. nutritionists say that's probably a good thing since the average male inmate consumes about 500 more calorie as day than the recommended amount. well, there you go. the plan could cut 160 calories from the inmates' diets. we all could learn from this. i'm telling you, i'm serious. i love him.

i didn't agree with the third term, but that is awesome. >> he's already got them on whole wheat. that's good enough for me. >> is it gluten free? >> they'll look better, feel better and live longer lives. >> i want good looking rikers inmates. let's do some sports. giants and eagles were tied with 6-3 records entering the big sunday night game on nbc. michael vick coming off a six touchdown performance on monday night in that blowout win over the redskins. he looked good last night. in the first quarter taking a shotgun snap. this is a designed run all the way that only he could score on this play. dances outside, tiptoes into the end zone, 7-0 eagles. the jijts fought back. fourth quarter manning fakes the handoff, five-yard touchdown, gives the giants a 17-16 lead.

michael vick with a toss. this kid is so good. la shawn mccoy, a skut center step gets to the outside. eagles up 24-17. they hold off the giants for a 27-17 win. philly taking the lead in the nfc east. they're 7-3. giants now 6-4. old on to the football eli. the jets hosting the texans. look at this moment in the third quarter. fan running ag cross the field. new jersey state trooper getting on his horse. rex ryan enjoys it thoerly. you're supposed to be outraged. ryan loves it. jets had a comfortable lead, 23-10. houston rallying back. they take the lead with just over two minutes left. air i don't know foster stretching it out with the go-ahead touchdown. jets trailing it out on the upcoming play 27-23 after a texan's field goal. sanchez leading the drive. airs it out to braylon edwards.

42-yard catch at the texans' six. 16 seconds left. necked play, sanchez with an absolutely perfect pass to san antonio holmes, floats one to the corner of the end zone. jets drive 72 yards in 39d seconds with no time-outs. stunning the tx ans with a comeback, 30-27. the new york jets are 8-2. >> pats hosting the colts. tom brady who mika does not find attractive finds wes welker. >> he's okay. >> for a 22-yard touchdown. she doesn't see it. >> i don't. >> fourth quarter colts come chugging back. manning hits white. 18 yards, 31-28 patriots is the lead at that point with about 4 1/2 minutes left in the game. still down by three. patriots have a chance if they can get in field goal range or throw a touchdown. that's the last thing you wanted. interception thrown by peyton manning. pats win 31-28.

they are tied with the jets atop the afc east. the colts are 6-4. oakland, pittsburgh, second quarter. ben roethlisberger completes a 22-yard touchdown pass to sanders to make it 21-3. >> it's what happened after the play. roethlisberger raises his arms to celebrate, says something to richard see more apparently and gets a shot to the face. see more drops ben roethlisberger who is a large man. seymour was tossed out of the game. steelers blow out oakland 35-3. they're now -- >> what did he say? >> something unflattering. >> good for richard seymour. >> how about nascar? this is big. jimmie johnson has done it again. winning nascar's chase for the cup for the fifth consecutive year. he finished second in yesterday's race. that was good enough to give him the cup title, now five in a

row. jimmie johnson, one of the most dominant drivers in the history of nascar. >> mika said it couldn't be done. >> exactly. >> what's the deal with you and tom brady? i just don't understand all the fuss. >> he's a hansom guy. >> i guess. >> good enough for gisele. we had mark sanchez in here last week. she was like, is he supposed to be good looking, too? yes. >> not that they care what i think. >> we'll give you a handy chart as to who is supposed to be hot and who isn't. >> i just don't understand all the fuss. i think it's built up. one begin to say it and then ten say it and 20 say it. >> how about ryan see crest? >> i think he's adorable. >> you found her sweet spot. >> he's a very intelligent young man. he really is. not that anybody cares what i think. up next, former first lady

barbara bush gives her very honest opinion of sarah palin and whether the former governor should run for president. >> got some must-reads on that. also mika's must-read opinion pages. the empire state building will be lit up in orange for a very important cause. the orange is in recognition of the fle lupus foundation 40th anniversary event. joe and i will be hosting the night's anniversary galla honoring the founding family. since the founding back in 1970 the non-profit lupus foundation has helped tens of thousands of people with lupus and funds research grants. it's a chronic and often disabling auto immune disease that affects 1.5 million americans. we'll be there tonight and we're honored. we'll be right back.

what's your read about sarah palin? >> i sat next to her once, thought she was beautiful. i think she's very happy in alaska, and i hope she'll stay there. >> all right. did she say i hope she stays there? >> stays there. >> cool shot of the white house. it's very foggy in washington. pat, barbara bush doesn't mince words, does she sf. >> i'd say she's on the murkowski side of this particular dispute. >> possibly. let me do the most-read op eds. it want you to comment on this. could she reach the top in 2012? you betcha by frank rich. my question is, is this wishful thinking on frank rich's part? logic doesn't apply to palin.

weight might bring down other politicians only seems to make her stronger. the mall la proppisms, gaffs, cut and run half-term governor ships, shameless lying in an angry time when america's experts and elites all seem to have failed. her amateurism are badges of honor. she's turned fallibility into a formula by success. >> i think that's trashing by brother mike rich. his analysis is very much on. there's a clear path for sarah palin to get the nomination by going to iowa where she has christian support, right to life support and tea party support. if she wins that and goes to south carolina where her troet jay of sorts, nikki haley, is governor, she could win that and the bull game would be over for the nomination. beyond that, though, can she be elected president? i think most of the panel up

there would say certainly not as of now. >> mark halperin, would you agree, frank rich goes on to say republican leaders are utterly baffled as to how to stop her. democrats who gloat she's the republican's problem may be huchl whoing themselves. when palin told walters last week she believed she could beat barack obama in 2012, it wasn't an idol boast. should michael bloomberg decide to run, all bets on obama are off. >> i agree with everything pat said. i agree with the bottom line analysis, that she's a very strong contender for the nomination. if unemployment is high and even the fed is saying it could be close to double digits, anyone who can build a crowd the way sarah palin can and attract a following is going to be a player in 2012. still hard to see how she becomes president in winning the electoral college. but she'll be a player. >> hard to disagree with any of the analysis. i think frank rich is right. i think mark is right, pat is

right, the interesting question for me will be if she does decide to run, i think what she's trying to do is lower her negatives. the average american questions her qualifications, whether she can be president. with the show she's trying to soft en up her image and reintroduce her selves. she's going to have to submit herself to interviews not on fox news. i don't know if she's ready to handle that. i think that crucible is going to determine whether she's a serious candidate or not. we'll see more and more of that in the months ahead if she wants to run. you'll know whether she's ready for this. >> halperin, is it way too much psychological stra teamingry to take the word of the former president to see that those on the left would want to promote this as a possibility and revel in it. >> they don't need to promote it for it to come true. i don't think she needs to take questions to become the republican nominee. i think the electorate that will decide where the nominee is

would welcome her not talking. >> pat? >> she's got the availability and the potential for staying late out of the race and then going in and making a hard run for those primaries. look, i think she handles herself far better now on national tv, whether it's fox or these other things than she did before. frankly, if you've got bloomberg in as a third party candidate, he's well to the left almost of obama on social and cultural issues, i think there is a path there, rich is right, there's a path down the sideline for sarah palin to be the next president of the united states. >> let me ask all you smart guys a question based upon my narrow perspective on this. given the incredible -- yo-yo understand the base she's going after. but given the base she's going after and her principle opponent, us, the media, i would think she'd have a terrific shot at this nomination.

>> she does. she can do it in a very unorthodox way getting in late. the question is can she win iowa and south carolina starting late in this field? i think depending on who runs, she can. like no one else ever has. >> i agree she can. quickly, she is not -- she now has the benefit of being attacked by the media and democrats, people she can demonize to her base. pretty soon the other republicans are going to start coming after her. mark, i take your point. i don't think she's got to go up there on you name it, left leaning show and take really tough questions from the media, but she will have to respond to the mitt romneys of the world. she can't just say those people are out to get me because they hate me because it's elitism. i don't think it's going to be easy. >> let me say this. the republican candidate who is out there and goes after her and takes her down will not be the republican nominee. someone else will be the beneficiary. that's like the howard dean gep part head-on crash in iowa from

which kerry benefited. so romney is going to be, as you've seen, tirbly reluctant to go after her because he wants her support should he be the nominee. as a matter of fact, he's got to have that support should he be the nominee. they've got to handle this very gingerly. i think you're much more likely if you get -- let's take a ron paul. if he got in, i think he'd take her on directly on foreign policy and iran and issues like that. all right n. a few minutes, former car czar steve rattner will be here. we'll discuss with him the lawsuit he's facing over alleged kickbacks. what's next. "snl" takes on the tsa pat-down scandal. >> i don't think the hair is the problem area. "snl" eels new 900 number when we come back. ♪

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beer or bread? [ male announcer ] see how the hartford helps businesses at achievewhatsahead.com. is it time for a pat-down? >> yes, it is. agent brzezinski. >> time for news you can't use. let's get the "snl" take on the groping technique. they came out with a new 900

number, not as sexy as you want most 9 0 numbers to be. let's check it out. >> feeling lonely this holiday season? >> looking for a little human interaction? >> do you want to feel contact in certain special places. >> why not go through securityality an airport. >> tsa agents are ready and standing by to give you something extra to feel thankful about this holiday season. >> tsa. >> what are you waiting for? i want to check under your test curveballs. >> spe >>. >> simply book a flight departing from any american airport oovps. when selected for a full-body scanner, say no, you'll be pulled aside by a tsa agent and that's when the fun begins. the tsa, it's our business to touch yours.

>> wow. >> just enjoy. just enjoy. >> ooh. >> anybody catch sarah palin's alaska last night? >> a lot of people did. >> you'll appreciate this. >> i love the wilderness and i like guns. >> when you go fishing for halibut. when you get them on the boat, you have to knock them out. sarah palin doing just that with a billy club in last night's program. >> you're going to go over before it comes up and over. >> good job, guys. >> i wasn't going to hesitate either especially when the fish were piling up and slapping around. they could do some damage here. we need to calm these boys down real quick. >> that hurt like crap. >> especially after i got slapped across the thigh by one of them, i realized they could hurt you.

>> like a metaphor for the mainstream media. got to slap it down. >> that's a suck esful reality show. that did very well. >> can we look at her hair. >> how high it was. >> bristol makes fun of her mom's hair. >> way too soon. >> okay. i'm done doing this. >> you'll get one. we're not going to stop until you get one. you're closing your eyes and guessing. >> mom, take your prom hair back home. >> bristol, take your prom hair back home, talking to her mamma that way. >> they get a little sassy at that age, trust me. >> look at that. that's what i'm talking about. >> if that can be a reality show -- >> that hair can win the south carolina primary, no question. >> i've got a reality show pitch, the men menonite family

can compete with that. beat animals, cut them on the hair. make ratings. steve rattner is next on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ring ring ring ring progresso. hi. we love your weight watchers endorsed soups but my husband looks the way he did 20 years ago. well that's great. you haven't seen him... my other can is ringing. progresso. hey can you tell my wife to relax and enjoy the view? (announcer) progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

i think people like myself should pay more taxes. the rich are always going to say give us more money and it will all trickle down. that has not worked the last ten

years. i hope the american public is catching on. >> okay. we should talk about that right now. it's the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and mark halperin are still with us as well as pat buchanan in washington joining willie and me. joining the table, former chief advisory to president obama's auto task force and the author of "overhaul: an insider account, the obama administration's emergency rescue of the auto industry." steve rattner is back at the table. >> thanks for having me. >> pat buchanan, warren buffett, he thinks he should pay more. do you agree? >> he's got $42 billion and he makes his money by capital gains, buying and selling, only a 15% tax. maybe he should pay more. if you're talking about a guy with a family making $250,000, should his taxes go up? i don't think it's good economics. i don't think it's good politics, and i don't know that it's a good deal for the country. i think the private sector is what we ought to rely on.

>> let's kick it around a little bit, mark halperin. does it have to be the difference between $250,000 and what warren buffett makes? is there room for negotiation on capitol hill to raise the ceiling? >> there has to be. this is going to come to a head f not this month with the deficit commission report in december, but when the republicans in the house have to write their budget. it's going to be fascinating to watch paul ryan write a budget that doesn't raise taxes but somehow balance the budget. it will be an important moment for the republican party. >> mike barnicle? >> there is something flammable within this culture when we continue to have a tax policy that results in warren buffett's secretary paying more in a percentage of taxes than warren buffett does. there's something wrong with the tax code in this country. >> i confess i'm in the same category as warren buffett. >> should you pay more? >> of course i should. the idea of raising the idea of

raising taxes for people making less than 250 is unthinkable. it wasn't long ago we thought the clinton tax rates were fine. the country made happy. the rich got richer faster than everybody else. as you said, we cannot address this budget deficit in a serious way without addressing taxes. >> when you have guys like steve rattner saying not only you think you should pay more but you're willing to. >> i'm very willing to. >> morally the right thing to do? >> morally the right thing to do. national polls out from quinnipiac university asking vote es for their opinions about potential candidates in the 2012 election. does president obama deserve a second term? look at these numbers. pat, help me out with this. 43 brs say yes and 49% say no. what does that tell you at this point in the game? >> it doesn't tell me a great deal. it tells me obama is not all that popular. out don't have a republican in there right now. you've got a generic thing.

when you put somebody in there, say romney or sarah palin or someone like that, mike huckabee, it might be closer, but the republicans haven't gone through the shreding process yet. >> let's put president obama in there in a match-up against sarah palin let's say. 48% for obama, 40% for sarah palin. mark halperin? >> a snapshot like all polls, they're spectacular for the president, given unemployment, the coverage he's gotten in the last few months. that number, 43, 44, that right now continues to be his floor rather than his ceiling given that he's not launched a campaign, given that the republicans haven't been through the shredder. >> look at obama against romney. it's one percentage point apart, neck and neck. that may be the guy to watch. know? >> most likely republican nominee today. he's going to have to get through a very tough process. >> here is an interesting

question. if you're a democrat, do you want someone other than president obama in 2012? 27% said yes. 64% saying no. i think there may be a lot of patience out there. am i wrong, pat buchanan? >> 27%, i don't know whether that's the white working class democrats of central pennsylvania or the liberals really unhappy that obama hasn't done what he's promised. i think that's sort of a troublesome figure there. frankly, i don't see the individual unless it's a feingold. i would not be terribly surprised if obama got some kind of challenge in the primaries from the left. >> okay. something came up when i was at a fund-raiser at my parents' house the other day. the concept of hillary clinton. she became a subject of conversation, of what it would be like if she were here now. and there was -- she was actually asked about this. take a look. >> i have said it over and over again and happy to say it on your show as well.

i'm committed to doing what i can to advance the security, the interests and the values of the united states of america. i believe what i'm doing right now is in furtherance of that and proud and grateful to be doing with it. >> so you're done with elected office? >> i am. i'm very happy doing what i'm doing. i'm not in any way interested in or pursuing anything in elective office. >> halperin is shaking his head. >> why? >> she's going to run in 2016 unless something change. that's like a nonanswer. i'm amazed people are making a big deal about that. >> i think it's silly to put her in that position right now. >> i think mark is exactly right. the idea of 2012 was ridiculous. no way as a sitting mem brp of the president's cabinet she was going to turn and run against him. it's not her nature. wouldn't have worked. 2016 is a whole different event. steve rattner, you're on the hot seat. gm's ipo got a warm welcome last week on wall street.

is it permanently and credibly competitive again? >> the restructuring gm went through made it as strong as car company as it is in twofrmtd it effectively has no net debt. costs and liabilities were reduced. it's making very good money. while we're only selling $12 million a year which is a very low rate of car sales. it will gush money. better products, new management team. how long would you like me to go on? >> it's amazing. >> doing very, very well. fully competitive, fully restructured profitable car company and it will be. >> should the white house be talking more? are they doing enough to take the credit. >> it's more important that the president get the credit. he went to plants for ford, gm and chrysler. went to advanced technology plants. the american people seem to have trouble processing the success, not only of this rescue, by the way, but the bank rescues.

these are things that saved the country. this went across two administrations, bush and obama. you have to give them both credit for this. we have this incredible bailout mentality out there that we've talked and read a lot about. without t.a.r.p., this country would have melted down and disappeared. >> steve, speaking of administrations, the incoming administration of governor elect andrew cuomo, currently the attorney general of new york, he's indicted you. >> that's not true. >> he's suing you. >> civil lawsuit against you. what's it about? what's your response? >> my response is that the lawsuit involves a so-called pay-to-play activities. >> suing you for allegedly getting involved in a kick back firm that gave a group you started the ability to manage $150 million in new york state pensions fund. is he trying to bully you or he's something there? >> obviously there's something here in that we retained the individual in question, we did

it legitimately. he's a registered placement agent, hiring him then was legal. hiring him today was legal. andrew cuomo seized on this as a political issue during the campaign and before his campaign he's taken it to great extremes. there have been a whole number officials and individuals involved in this. i am the only one who he has chosen to sue and i feel very bullied and i feel a very political overtone to this. it's not my first choice, but forced to fight, i'll if fight. >> what you went through before, when the s.e.c. brought the charges, does that impact this case at all? >> they're essentially separate matters. i chose to settle with the s.e.c. because they were willing to settle on terms that were not pleasant but at least reasonable. i want to get on in my life. personally i'd love to settle with both of them. that didn't prove possible. to here we are. >> i appreciate your taking these questions. i wonder if you're willing to go a little further and give us a sense of what you think -- why

is he going after you? what's this about really? >> mika, i've spent many nights wondering what this is about. contrary to what carl paladino would have us think, i've never been part of cuomo's fan club. he's tried to cultivate my wife and me. we were big democratic fuchbd raisers. never took to his charles, never thought he was a substantive guy. my wife is close to carrie kennedy. he's now in the process of pivoting to being governor. the state is a mess. there are enormous challenges in front of the state. you would think this is matter he would want to resolve and be able to move on. >> we'll have to invite him to respond. >> you settled with the s.e.c. i understand stand you're questioning his motives in going after you. did you make any mistakes? you said you didn't break any laws. did you make any mistakes around the activities for which you're being investigated? >> i'm not sure mistakes is the right word. obviously if i had known then

what i know now about how cuomo would approach this and the issues he would create would be, of course i would have done things differently. everybody would under those circumstances. i'm very confident and my lawyers are very confident that i broke no new york laws. >> you saed mistakes isn't the right word. but i'll ask again. did you make any mistakes, is there any basis for the settlement with the s.e.c. or being investigated by the attorney general, did you do anything wrong? >> i did not -- obviously i'm under some limitations here as to what i can say. i did not break new york law. my lawyers are convinced of that. i'm convinced of that. mistakes, i don't know what mistakes are. i are regrets, some things i'd like to do differently, sitting here today answering all these questions. we're prepared to litigate with andrew cuomo. i broke no new york laws. >> how do you react -- off mark's question, how do you

react to what your former partners quadrangle had to say about whether it was a mistake or not a mistake, pretty tough stuff? >> i think when you are -- when the boat is sinking and you want to try to keep it afloat you throw off all the excess baggage and fire wood and bits and pieces you can to keep the boat afloat. >> oh, my gosh. >> we'll get cuomo on to get hits side of the story. >> can i come, too? >> yes, why don't you? >> steve, you are more welcome to join us. we've tried -- i think we've tried to have him on the show for other reasons. has it worked out, chris? >> no, it hasn't. we'll try again. >> absolutely. we'll try again. let me go back to the cars real quick. talking about the recovery, pretty miraculous of gm. how does this affect the larger economy? the factories are still shuttered, a lot of people still out of work because the companies have been streamlined. what's the impact of gm's

recovery on the larger economy? >> you have to think about what the impact would have been if they hadn't recovered. it would have brought down the suppliers, chrysler, ford. we would have had one to two million jobs across the whole industry, mostly the midwest, lost in a heartbeat. that would have been devastating. we've gotten that much better. all the jobs are still there. we did have to cut some jobs in order to make gm viable. gm is beginning to hire again. there was a small car plant that was going to occur in korea that now is going to occur in michigan because the uaw made concessions. the suppliers are saying because of the fall of the dollar, their export business is up and they're doing better. more hiring in the auto sector than in a few years. i'm not going to tell you that this would become silicon valley. >> that would be a stretch. >> a little stretch. >> steve, i want to ask you, i can understand why the president is not bragging about saving

jpmorgan chase. but general motors, stalking about scores of thousands of manufacturing jobs and there are a lot of middle americans, are conservative democrats and some republicans think that's a great thing. why doesn't he boast about saving gm and the manufacturing plants in this country? >> as i said, pat, i think he's trying to. he went into the press room on thursday or friday and did a shout-out and talked about what a great moment this is for america that gm had been saved. the question is not necessarily what he's saying, but what people are reporting and listening to. think he's been trying to explain that this the a great success of his administration, due entirely to the existence of t.a.r.p. and secondly his insistence on their being a fundamental restructuring of these companies and not band-aid approach. >> steve rattner, in the line of fire but still on "morning joe," a sign of character. thank you very much, a real man. coming up, savannah guthrie

with the headlines out of the white house. the controversy over pat-downs create havoc over thanksgiving. foggy conditions from richmond to washington, d.c. that's really the only issues on the eastern seaboard. we also are dealing with rain in ohio and michigan. first things first, the forecast today from d.c. to boston a mild day. a lot warmer than sunday. the heavy rain is heading for chicago. even thunderstorms at this hour all through areas of northern illinois. that will roll through milwaukee and chicago about two hours from now. forecast, the trouble spot in the northern plains, a lot of reports for icy roads. be careful driving there. on the west coast, they've got a fon of snow. the ski areas get nailed with three to four feet this weekend. that's going to continue through today. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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you like historical anniversaries? on this date in 1863 president abraham lincoln delivered the gettysburg address. and then following the address, the rebuttal was given by john mccain. >> wow, still doing the old mccain jokes. joining us from the white house, nbc news white house correspondent and co-host of "the daily rundown" savannah guthrie. >> good morning. >> looks a little foggy. >> it is a little foggy, humid. >> you still got the purple jacket. so you're all set. let's talk about tsa pat-downs and groping if we could, savannah. >> let's. >> it's a strange day when the president of the united states

is answering questions on foreign trips ability tsa groping. does the white house feels like it has to deal with the story? >> i think so. certainly it's the obama administration, janet napolitano and john pistole, in the sense of the administration, the president answers for everything going on. yes. i think there's significant frus trigs here. certainly yesterday in terms of the shifting statements from john pistole, a certain amount of frustration there. also what a difficult issue this is. here the tsa is trying to protect the american flying public. some people feel very strongly, as you know, this san over reach literally, but you've got to balance that with the desire to keep people safe. i think that's a real source of frustration here. >> is there a sense, savannah, they're talking about other measures. everybody says there has to be a better way to do this. are they coming up with better ways? as mark halperin is pointing

out, this isn't going to lap. you the little boy with his shirt off at the airport, the nun being groped, all these pictures. something has to give here. >> pistole himself says this is an evolving policy and they're always trying to look at different procedures. what i find fascinating, every time we have a scare like we did last christmas with the underwear bomber, it's almost a year later we see procedures that apparently designed to adapt to that threat. this feels like a very slow-moving ship in the best of circumstances. one wonders, even if they decided to make changes tomorrow, how quickly they'd be able to get those into effect. >> savannah, can you tell us anything about internally within the white house staff, is there anything going on, any dissension in the white house staff over president's reaction to senator kyle seemingly obstructing the s.t.a.r.t. treaty in the senate. there seems to be one camp wanting the president to hit him with a knuckle sandwich because

this is about national security, having nothing to do with domestic politics really and the other camp, letting hillary clinton address it. is there anything going on about this? >> i think there is a division over how hard to hit back at kyle. they could make a big show and say kyle is engaging in politics, pure and same simple. his objections aren't substantive. we hear words like that, actually we heard it over the weekend at the nato summit from the president himself. when asked specifically to go for the jug larp and say pure and simple, kyle is playing politics. the president stopped short of doing that. i mean, look, this is a difficult issue. they might want to make some big showy fight with senator kyle. on the other hand, they need senator kyle. even though he's one vote. pretty clear on the senate side, there are a lot of republicans waiting for his cue. if they can hold him up, it's unclear whether pick ag fight

with kyle is the way to go. as of last week, kyle told our nbc producer ken strickland on the hill there's no chance this is getting done in the lame duck session. we'll be anxious to see if anything happens. the president had a unprompted spontaneous report from european leaders, they're worried about missile defense,nd they said, hey, we support this treaty. we'll see if this gets momentum at the white house. >> their only hope is to turn kyle or can they get enough republicans to pass it in the lame duck without kyle? >> i've heard some people make the analysis that up until recently the white house had been trying to essentially work around kyle, trying to get a path to those 67 votes without him. and then pop realizing they couldn't, had to deal with kyle. on the other hand, some people say the administration just engaged too late. yes, they added that $4 billion on the issue of nuclear forces

modernization, but that didn't happen until we were all with the president in asia after the midterms. some have said the president personally engaged too late on this and now is paying the price for it. obviously they've got richard lugar, a republican who is very supportive of the treaty. it seems right now that the republicans are looking to kyle for their cues on this one. >> pat buchanan, this seems on the surface like an opportunity for the president to beat his chest a little bit. you've had people coming out from the reagan administration saying this is outrageous, we've got to sign this treaty so we can verify russian nuclear weapons. would they be wise to call out jon kyle and other republicans? >> you're exactly right. now only do they have the old bulls of the republican establishment, but the entire u.s. military behind them saying this is a good treaty. savannah, is the president holding up going after kyle because he believes that after a

delay, a decent interval, if you will, republicans almost have to go along, that they're not really going to torpedo and kill this treaty with all the consequences that would have on u.s.-russian relations? >> first of all, i think they're still hoping to work with kyle. making a target out of him maybe not be the best way to ultimately get what the administration so badly wants which is to get this treaty passed, whether it happens this year or next year. that may be part of the hess tans on the part of the white house. also i think in some ways it speaks to the president's demeanor. it's not as far as we can observe in his character to call out one person in particular and say he's playing politics pure and simple. it feels like they're dancing around that, hinting at it, but not coming out and saying that's what's going on. it will be interesting to see how it all plays out, whether or not there's any true urgency, the republicans feel getting it done this year or if they feel like we can hold on and maybe

get a better deal, more for the nuclear modernization and get it done. >> savannah has range. you throw up tsa groping, s.t.a.r.t. treaty, you name it. >> reporter: and the fog, willie. don't forget about the weather. >> thanks so much. you can catch "the daily rundown" at 9:00 a.m. eastern on msnbc with savannah and chuck. coming up, the "morning joe" gridiron report with chris "mad dog" russo. don't forget to sign up for the all new morning minutes newsletter. sign up by going to joe.msnbc.com. mad dog is straight ahead. [ female announcer ] the lights will be on starting midnight

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joining us for the "morning joe" gridiron report. >> i'm excited. >> are we ready? >> let's go. mad dog headlines his own sports channel, mad dog radio on sirius xm radio. >> a little tired because you were up till midnight watching

the giants and eagles. >> very choppy game. the giants had so many chances, 17-16. four minutes to go. eagles get the first down on fourth and one. bad loss. eagles gave the giants a chance and giants didn't take advantage of it. >> let's talk about michael vick, this guy put on a show last monday night, six touchdown, another one last night. could you make a case that he's the mvp of the nfl? >> you can. he missed some games, he was hurt, didn't start the first game of the year. the giants did a better job last night, they blitzed him. the redskins on monday night only watched three guys. last night giants sent people after him, banged him around a little bit. he wasn't nearly as effective as he was on monday night against the redskins. still decent enough, 258 yards. he skram nls for a first down and goes head first, fumbles and the eagles recover. they end up winning the game. >> giants, they got it this

year? >> everybody loves them, including me. they played great. had a bad game against dallas. defense played well. they easily could have won this game. fourth and six at his own 44 yard line. 3:14 to go. all his time-outs, and he went for it. got the first down. as it turns out he fumbled and they lost the game. >> the other team in new york, the jets on the other hand, they look like they've got pixie does sglt karma. last time -- i was in karma, magic dust. the jets have a huge lead in this game yesterday afternoon against the texans, they had a 23-7 lead in the fourth quarter. texans kick a field goal, score two touchdowns. '50 seconds to go, no time-outs, needing a touchdown to win. no field goal. sanchez brings them down the field. they win the game. that's three games in a row. they're 8-2. they should beat the bengals on

thanksgiving night and then new england the next night. >> mark sanchez, second year in, looking like one of the best in the game. >> this is the big game to braylon edwards, the touchdown to santonio holmes. nice play. >> oh, wow. >> holmes is the guy that made the catch for the cardinals that won the super bowl two years ago. fake pattern in the end zone. i couldn't believe. >> i do not believe it. >> they beat the traffic. >> i heard the game on the radio. >> the jets 8-2. a lot of magic, pixie dust. the pat yolts next week. >> patriots playing the the colts. >> they played great. brady played very, very well. they lost last year to the patriots with the same 31-14 lead to the folts. fourth and two, didn't get it.

same score. manning brought his team back, touchdown here, touchdown later. then he had a first down at the 24 yard line with 40 seconds to go. he throws an interception. this is a bad play. you've got the fold goal, don't get greedy. i thought that was a bad pass by manning. the patriots hang out and run out the clock. they played nine consecutive times, not in the same division. that's an nfl record. obviously a great rivalry. >> the jets and patriots right atop the afc. >> good game. >> raiders-steelers yesterday, roethlisberger is back to his midseason form. a weird play in the game. richard seymour, roethlisberger throws a touchdown. everybody talking about what happened after the play. >> i know he got thrown out of the game. made it 21-3. then i guess -- what did seymour do? >> a little taunt maybe from roethlisberger. >> yes, got to dloe him out of the game for that.

i didn't realize that seymour was so vicious. he's a hall of famer. frustration, raiders had a lot of momentum going into the game, 5-4. roethlisberger may have said something. >> doug that's taunting on roethlisberger's part. drop the flag. >> you're right. two wrongs don't make a right. give them a 15-yard penalty. >> pittsburgh, the ravens, the jets and the pats, i don't think the colts, one of those four will go to the super bowl. >> the game wasn't even close. at what point does brad childress have the guts to bench brett favre. >> sooner or later they have to play tav var res jackson. who knows if it's going to be childress. he can be fired any day despite signing the contract extension last year. favre was terrible yesterday,

31-3 t. vikings are done. he should never have come back. i think most people ream lies that. very decisive about it, decided to come back late august. he will not play every game. they don't have a big backup quarterback. they don't have one of these great rookies who you know is going to be good. their backup quarterback is not that great. sooner or later the kid is going to have to play. >> we have favre talking about this after the game. >> this one has got me at a loss for words. disappointing would be an understatement. it's tough. >> he got embarrassed -- >> you've got to love favre as a competitor. i don't like him as a person that much. he bothers me. all over the place. i can't take him. most sports are down on the favre soap oprah. a hall of famer. we know that. good buy and good riddance.

that's tough. but it's true. huge weekend for the bcs. >> you have auburn playing alabama. auburn has a lot of controversy with cam newton who shouldn't be allowed to play. he's the guy that his father is in this mississippi state mess. they're in alabama on friday afternoon. big rivalry. alabama is very good. if they win and then beat south carolina on the bcs championship game, a game they should win, they're playing a championship game against oregon. if they lose, that opens it up for boise state to play oregon. a very interesting scenario developing in bcs land two unbeaten teams, boise and tcu that are not going to be able to play for anything at the end of the year because you have auburn and oregon. if you had a play-off system, everybody gets involved and has some fun. >> who is the best team in the country? >> i think alabama is and they lost two games. >> pandering and joe is not even here. >> i understand the name now.

>> fast and furious. >> chris russo, great to have you here. check him out on sirius xm. great show. question for you, willie, besides being invasive, do the new security procedures play right into the hands of terrorists? that's a question we're going to ask the head of the tsa next. first your pat-down right here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. breathe in, breathe out.

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feeling lonely this holiday season? >> looking for a little human interaction? >> do you want to feel contact in certain special places?

>> why not go through security at an airport? >> tsa agents are ready and standing by to give you a little something extra to feel good about this holiday season. >> tsa. >> what are you waiting for? i want to check under your testicles. >> spending time with a tsa agent couldn't be easier. simply book a flight departing from any american airport. when selected for a full-body scanner say no, you'll be pulled aside by a tsa agent and that's when the fun begins. tsa, it's our business to touch yours. >> oh, god. good times for the tsa. we can blame, sir, our executive producer chris licht for running that piece. joining us from washington, tsa administrator john pistole. sir, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> you're welcome. that's quite a lead-in.

>> yes, it is: it's certainly been the source of a lot of joking. i'll start off with a dead serious question for you. these new rules or guidelines have been put in place for the past couple weeks. have they proven effective? have they found anything? are they worth snit. >> let me start with the advanced imaging technology machines, we can go back several years with those. we have found all types of things that we would not have picked up through the walk-through metal dedeck tors. the whole purpose of the enhanced pat-downs is to address the challenges we see from the christmas day bomber last year, using a nonmetallic device which would not have been picked up, a bomb that would have killed all the people on the aircraft, of course. so the enhanced pat-downs are designed to identify and disrupt that type of plot. so that's the challenge. how do we best balance the security that everybody wants, everybody wants to get home for

the holidays safely. >> this has become the butt of jokes on "saturday night live." and you went right to the body scanner machines. there are separate issues with that. in terms of the enhanced pat-downs, first of all rnlgs was there a problem with the way we transitioned into them that has led to this conversation getting out of control? then it's like to know if they are working in any way? >> the two issues there that you addressed is how could we have best rolled this out f you will. we did a couple of pilot projects if you will in two airports, las vegas and boston. the concern was, if we advertise, if you will, that we're doing this in two airports, that meant we had 451 airports around the country where we were not doing that. we didn't want to provide roadmap to the terrorist whose may be ready to do something, by the way, we're not thoroughly screening people for the

nonmetallic bombs such as we saw on 12/25. the other part, yes, we have found some things, whether contraband -- typically drugs, of course, whether in the underwear or wherever it might be. that's been an age-old issue. >> mike barnicle? >> mr. pistole, mark happen pri halperin is here, some people are reluctant to go through the body scanners because of perceived dangers with radiation, what are the dangers, if any, with radiation? >> the scientific study that we commissioned before we ever rolled these machines out showed there's complete think safe amount of radiation emitted. that's by national institute of standard technology, fda and john hopkins. we rely on those. we want to work with industry to make sure we have the safest machines available. that is the bottom line. they are safe for everyday use.

>> sir, let me ask you two questions about the two pieces of. this you say the machines are safe for use. would you be willing to go through it four times a week? >> yes. i travel quite a bit. guy through security screening every time. i have full confidence they're safe and secure. >> have you been subjected to the full pat-down? >> yes, i have. >> and how did you feel about it? >> well, i felt it was thorough. i felt it was doing exactly what it's designed to do to try to detect somebody is trying to kill hundreds of people on an airplane. >> okay. guys, what is he supposed to do, seriously? what is he supposed to do given the fact that people are hiding bombs in their underwear or anywhere else? >> that's what i would like to ask him. mr. pistole, let me ask you this, what do you think it says about us as a culture, as a nation, where we are all up in arms over the past week or so about getting frisked at

airports and potential radiation from these machines much more so than we are about the fact that we're engaged in two wars in afghanistan and have a 10.5%, 15% real unemployment rate in this country? what does it say about us? >> the threats are real. we're facing a determined en any who has proven adept at building, concealing, designing bombs that are going to kill hundreds of people on one aircraft. think eve also done the same on cargo aircraft to effect our economy. so that's the bottom line for me. how can we work in partnership with the american people to provide the safest travel possible and especially this week so people can get home to enjoy time with loved ones. >> mr. pistole, i was in the airport and people in line with me were saying this can't go on. is there a better way? what are other options? what else have you looked at? >> i think the key is to look at this as one player as security

that we hope to be and are informed by intelligence from around the world such as we saw with the saudi intelligence about the cargo plot. every morning i receive an intelligence brief that helps inform the judgments and actions. the idea is to have as much intelligence as possible about those who may pose a risk before they ever get to the airport. absent that, we try to apply common sense which has not been heard in discussions in the last few weeks. we exempt chish 12 and under because we don't assess they pose a risk to aviation security. we obviously are trying to work through the best intelligence, how that can inform our actions n. final analysis, reasonable people can disagree as to what's proper for them as to privacy and security. everybody wants to make sure everybody else on that flight you're on has been properly screened just as they want to make sure you and i have been properly scleen. >> tsa administrator john pistole, thanks very much.

we appreciate your coming on the show this morning. up next, an inside look at the crisis on wall street. could it all happen again? i think it could. have we prevented too big to fail? i don't think so. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] at&t covers 97% of all americans. rethink possible. princess of the powerpoint. your core competency... is competency. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle.

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guess it's tied up. it's like handcuffed or something. what was that? scaffolding. joining us now, greg farrell, the author of "crash the titans." good to have you. the book is fascinating. play-by-play of the negotiations between merrill lynch and bank of america before the final sale. >> it happened this weekend in september of 2008. for bank or network, which used to be nations bank, a bank that had set itself up against the new york banks. this should have been the reversal of the civil war. comes, try ums and it was a real

high point for the former ceo, ken lewis. i think because of the exciteme excitement, they were willing to return that to be overpay to do the deal so quickly that he was ordered to pay a certain price. >> heroes, villains or just characters in the book. tell us about the man who put more than $30 billion on to merrill's balance sheet. >> he's a terrific sales man in london. sold these products to european banks and the big mistake, i think, is that stan o'neal, who was the ceo of merrill lynch, put this guy in charge of the fixed income department. put in charge of the casino, a

guy who is a river boat driver. he did what he always did, produce revenues, manufacture ceos. there was no one, he didn't get the pushback because he was stan o'neal's guy. everyone knew he was the ceo's selection. >> what was unique about the fall of merrill lynch as comp e compared to lehman brothers or bear stearns? >> what makes it worse is that merrill lynch was and still is a financial advisory business that was rock solid. it had advisers in the country helping mom and pop make investments for their future. that's a solid business. merrill became an investment bank, more of a high stakes gambling, actually gambling is

the wrong term. they took far more risks with people's money in this decade more than any other point. stan o'neal was attracted by the much bigger payoffs on wall street. as a result, he didn't pay as much attention to the financial advisory business, which is a much more dangerous area. there's been a lot of focus on regulators and where with the boards of these companies? did they do anything to say oversight over the executive? >> no. >> the ceo tends to put people in place who don't necessarily challenge them. >> fascinating. greg ferrell, thanks very much.

coming up, world leaders want afghanistan to control its own security by 2014, but what will it take to get there? this is just awkward. >> not necessarily good television. we've got ambassador richard holbrooke next on "morning joe." holy sci-fi. steve. no, i know. it's great, right? but, dude, i've been thinking like, this is such a great opportunity for us to write at least an hour to two every single day. you can see this? of course i can see you. but, steve, i'm thinking-- it's like you're standing-- it's like you're standing right there. it's like i'm touching you. yeah. introducing cisco umi, together we are the human network. cisco. it's like i'm talking to you from the future. i was living on welfare and supporting a family of four. after i got the job at walmart, things started changing immediately. then i wrote a letter to the food stamp office. "thank you very much, i don't need your help any more."

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this validates a long standing concern we've had with

respect to north korea. concerning the development of nuclear weapons is a huge concern for all of us. the asumts is that they continue to head in the direction of additional nuclear weapons and they also are known to proliferate this technology, so they're a very dangerous country. >> now that news broke over the weekend. we'll talk about it now. a perfect guest for it. 8:00 on the east coast. mike barnacle and mike halperin are still with us. pat buchanan joins us from washington. and joining the table, special representative for afghanistan and pakistan, richard holbrooke. good to have you on the show. why don't we start with the news and we'll go from there. the associated press has reported there are growing signs

that forces have worn out their welcome in afghanistan. we'll get to the afghan issue in a moment, but first, the u.s. special envoy for north korea says the country's claim to have built a nuclear facility is provocative. the report that pyonyang secretly built a new facility to enrich uranium, which to a scientist who visited the site called quote, stunning. with the s.t.a.r.t. negotiations, doesn't that complicate things? >> about north korea? >> yeah. >> north koreans, nothing they do is stunning. they are the most brutal, oppre oppressive regime in the world and will do anything they can to strengthen their own capableties. the most interesting thing to me is that they took an american scientist to this thing and showed it off.

>> how do we move forward? >> the end game with north korea? >> there is not one. >> it's a long way off. this is a quite different situation than the one i'm working on, but north korea's been with us ever since i entered the government a long time ago and we're just going to have to keep at it and make clear to north koreans they're playing with fire and make sure the chinese continue to help us. that's krcritical. >> we'll move on. the associated press says there are signs that the allied forces have worn out their welcome in afghanistan despite plans to stay in the country for at least another four years. that's a number we hear and struggle with. the report comes as the white house insists that the u.s. is committed to transferring power over by the end of 2014. >> we're intent upon reaching the goal of transitioning to

afghan security in 2014, but nato partners have said that of course we'd be willing to help train and equip the afghan military. >> what about permanent bases? >> there's been no edition about that? >> but is that possible? >> it's just not on the table. >> do you believe take over security within four years? >> i do believe as best we understand things that's very much a reachable goal. there's a lot to do between now and then, clearly. very dangerous place. very tough fight we're in, but that's a goal that president karzai set out there and that all nato allies, actually all countries providing forces, there are some 20 other countries, and we think it's reachable. >> the comments follow a pledge

by president obama that the u.s. would stand by afghanistan when it hands over security. >> i've made it clear that even as americans transition and troop reductions begin in july, we will also forge a long-term partnership with a afghan people and today, nato has done the same. so this leaves no doubt that as afghans stand up and take the lead, they will not be standing alone. >> this all sounds very murky to americans watching. we hear 2011, 2014, then the stand by afghan people or if conditions on the ground change, it could be longer. what would you tell our viewers to clarify? >> this is a difficult situation, but i want to be clear in this successful nato summit. what was decided unanimously there was to create a policy,

establish it around president karzai's own statements that his country will be ready to take over security responsibility at the end of 2014. this isn't going to be we kill, go, go and then stop at the end of 2014. it will be a gradual transition to secure in the hands of the afghans. that transition will begin in july of 2011 as president obama stated a year ago in his speech at west point. what was clarified on a multinational basis in lisbon over the weekend is that it will be a four-year process at the end of which it is planned that the afghans will be in charge of their security. now for the critical point. what happens after 2014? and this goes back to the history of the area if you'll pardon a slight by critical diversion. for the united states, the seminole date is 9/11. we understand that. but for the region, it's 1989.

the united states spent a decade krooif driving the soef soviets out. the next day in effect, the united states turned its back on the region leaving our pakistani allies, a period of charlie wilson's war, high and dry. afghanistan then fell into a civil war and the pakistani supported taliban came in. that led to bin laden and where we are today. now, we cannot repeat 1989 again because we will then al-qaeda will come back. the whole region will go back into a crisis far worse. what president obama was saying was absolutely critical. we will not keep fighting the combat war after 2014.

as admiral mullins said yesterday, it will be phased out. it's an achievable objective. it's what karzai wants, but we must not abandon the people. we have to give them economic aid. we have to continue to support the police and army and that process should go on after 2014 and if not, the situation will just get -- >> a lot of people don't sit well with that. >> the afghan people. kabul is a long way from lisbon. a long way from the success employed over the weekend at the nato conference. what do we do as a nation that seemingly from an ek doe tall evidence has no confidence in the administration of karzai? >> two answers to that. first, mika mentioned in her set-up that people in the afghanistan don't want us to

stay. public opinion polls have never supported that. they're a lot of people who get frustrated by the international presence. those are legitimate concerns and we hear them and are working on them, but the overwhelming bulk of the people, mike, don't want the taliban to come back. women, almost unanimously because of the way they were treated in the taliban. and they -- the rest of the people also very heavily anti taliban. >> you've always had a sense of people nationally and internationally. what about the patience of the american people? >> and should they be patient right now? >> i think the answer to that is first of all, the american people have been very good in supporting these issues. i am not critical of them.

i think legitimate domestic debate is valid and it will be a valid issue. i think the american people understand that we're in afghanistan because of 9/11 and that we can't just walk out without creating a situation which will spiral out of control. but it is tough, mika, as you know. i said it last time i was on your program. it's the most difficult problem i've worked on, but i think what we established in lisbon is a clear path towards the departure of combat troops in four years. >> pat buchanan. >> we hear we can't lets the taliban come back because al-qaeda will come back. let me ask you this. why then are we and mr. karzai negotiating with the taliban? would it be acceptable for them to come back in and share power?

>> first of all, in reference to the first half of your question, pat, al-qaeda is in many places, but it's leadership is in the border areas between afghanistan and pakistan. secondly, you used the word negotiations. i know negotiations when i see them. there's no negotiation going on. nothing that comes dloes that word. all this press talk the really talking about the possibility of talking. there is no single enemy out there in the way there was a min or arafat. it's different people. one group al-qaeda, there's not negotiating with, other groups are split and they're in contact regularly with karzai and his people. i want to stress because everyone knows there's no simple military solution to this.

that we support afghan-led discussions of that sort, but don't use the word negotiations because there's nothing resembling it going on. >> get your reaction to a piece in the "washington post" editorial page today sort of questioning whatever the obama doctrine may or may not be. it reads -- the piece suggesting the foreign policy is outdated. >> i missed that article, but --

whom i see quite often. i don't know who wrote that. >> jackson deal. >> i'm not sure what he's trying say from that, and i'm not sure who he's referring to, there is a strategy here and i think lisbon laid it out very clearly. it is a difficult process as admiral mullen and secretary clinton said yesterday on the talk shows. it is difficult to reign. it is a culture that's remotely different from ours. mistakes have been made and we have to do something about them. >> halperin. >> thank you for your grit and determination and public service and the public in vietnam was not prepared for the consequences. what is the worst case, if you are all are wrong, what is the worst case america can except?

>> i'm always teasing mika about her father and i'd like to say i worked closely with your father, but not yours, mike. and willie's father i just admire from afar. it's kind of a children's show. children of. >> a step above "romper room." >> your father and i worked in l vietnam together. we're not repeating that here. because of 9/11. because of the origins of the war. having said that, i welcome a domestic debate on this issue. we should have one. the war has gone on a long time. not longer than vietnam, but damn long and we need to keep this debate going. the debate helps americans understand the policy. >> what's the worst case that

can happen if we're worng or things don't go well on the ground? >> if it forced a precipitous withdrawal, it would be an international triumph for the al-qaeda and taliban. >> a different worst case. what's the worst case if we stay, but it doesn't work? >> the famous quaug meier issue. that's why i think in contrast to vietnam, it is important that the president and nato unanimously endorse karzai's four-year timetable for the end of combat troops and that we said at the end of the phase, we continue to give them aid and don't repeat 1989. >> stick with children. children of. in this sense, that we have a shockingly low percentage of people bearing the burden of this war than in iraq. and the country seems -- >> there's no draft.

>> there is no draft. so what do you say, not you personally, but to some mother or father of an 18-year-old out there about to go into the marine corp. or army and lose or risk his or her life in afghanistan. why? >> it's the toughest question of all and tough in any war no matter how much one believes in the cost because of the way war, the cruelty and randomness of war and in this war particularly because so many of the casualties are from improvised explosive devices, ieds. you can't say anything which undoes the loss. it's impossible. the fact that it's not a draftee war, but a professional army war makes a big difference. people signed up knowing they were risking their lives. the individual commitment on the part of the troops.

their commitment to the nation, their buddies, is extraordinarily high and a palpable difference from the era of vietnam which i remember so well. >> this is a story we are very fo focused on here. >> your program is one of the reasons i like to come on is whether i agree or not with your comments, which are mainly critical, i think you've made your program the epicenter of the discussion of afghanistan and i would add pakistan, which we talked about last time on television, and i think that's a very useful public service. >> ambassador richard holbrooke, thank you very much. next, politico describes her as a character left for dead. how lisa murkowski is looking to settle the score. also, mixed reaction this morning after pope benedict suggests the catholic church's ban on condoms should be

partially lifted. but first, bill karins. little fog around d.c. and richmond, but it's not that bad. i don't think your morning's going to be too rough going to work or school. everywhere in the east is mild and warm. no real issues, but we are going to watch chicago carefully. you can see these thunderstorms heading for chicago and milwaukee. expect airport delays over the next hour, hour and a half. southeast looks great today. look how cold it is from minnesota to minneapolis. this is going to be a brutal week for the northern plains. very cold tuesday. the get away day is on wednesday. east coast looks great. problem spots, kansas city, st. louis, chicago. ♪

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what should you read about sarah palin? >> i sat next to her once, that she was beautiful. i think she's very happy in alaska and hope she stays there. >> barbara bush suggesting sarah palin stay in alaska. hey, patrick. let's keep it in alaska, my friend. the apparent winner there, lisa murkowski, on her way to becoming the first successful write-in candidate for center, senate, excuse me, in more than half a century, but you're

saying they can claim another title. >> that's right. she did beat sarah palin really on a national stage, in other words, beating a tea party candidate in the form of joe miller backed by sarah palin on her home turf. there's a lot of speculation about a new role show might play in the upcoming conference. this might have proven she has a different base and that is more moderate. there's a chance she could become a bit of a party strad e straddling centrist sort of like a joe lieberman. she's experezed a little flexibility on don't ask don't tell. she's gone after sarah palin, jim demint, saying that he cost republicans some key elections, so she is perhaps move ago little closer to the center thanks to this and has got a big megaphone right now and will have it for a little longer.

>> pat, really, murkowski, the only national politician to take on sarah palin in alaska on her home turf. >> pat buchanan or -- >> pat buchanan. >> exactly and murkowski's got to be fairly bitter, too. the republican senate campaign committee went with joe miller and she got surprised by joe miller in the primary and i think she's really got a personal grudge against sarah palin, who took down her dad and almost took her down, but i do think she's going to be an outrighter in that senate caucus in that i don't know who else is going to go in that direction with her. she's going to be pretty much like a joe lieberman, isn't she? >> a lot of people say she runs the risk of being a sore winner like conan and "the tonight show." with lisa murkowski, enough about getting beat by joe miller

and how sarah palin went after you. even though she won, she is kind of playing the whole victim card. even though you see her on press all the time, at some point, she's going to have to stop talking about the election and get back to the business of legislating. >> patrick, you guys have been digging into another senate race. a lot of people praised harry reid for the campaign there. what did you find went wrong with ankle? >> a lot of the blame comes on terry campbell, sort of did not handle this campaign the way most are operated. partially because he's a long time friend of sharron angle's. he did things like trying to call off a visit business john mccain when john mccain was midair not knowing about barack obama's visit to the state to campaign against sharron angle.

not returning e-mails from reporters. sending campaigns down to las vegas, primarily a tourist destination, so a lot of the blame is looking towards him and what could have been a big victory against reid, but turned out not to be against republicans. >> biggest travel week of the year. we've had a lot of inquiries whether or not you're traveling and if so, what do you do with a cats? >> cats are a hidden subject on the topic because i don't think they have to go through screening. they ride way in the back. i think they get off scot-free and honestly, they should. >> going to frisk your cats. >> you're the cat traveler, patrick. cat travelers. >> you store underneath the chair in front of you. yeah. >> nothing like sitting next to a guy with cat in his bag.

thanks so much. we'll talk to you tomorrow. up next, is pope benedict changing the church's stance against the use of condoms? next on "morning joe." so, during sign then drive i can get a cc for just my signature? that's right, right now you can take home a volkswagen for just your signature, like the cc or the tiguan. huh. yeah, plus every vw includes scheduled carefree maintenance. really? that's great. there you go. that guy's pretty good too. yeah, he's ok. [ male announcer ] it's amazing what you can do with a pen. sign then drive is back. for a limited time get any 2011 volkswagen for practically just your signature. for a limited time get any 2011 volkswagen

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beautiful picture of central park in new york city at 8:30 on monday morning. there is mixed reaction after pope benedict announced that the church's ban on condoms could be lifted, at least partially. kerry standers reports. >> reporter: the book is questions and answers. he sat with a journalist in what the vatican says was an open forrum and it's there, a question about aids in africa. should condoms be used to prevent the spread of disease. the pope says there may be a basis in the case of some individuals as in the case when the male prostitute uses a condom. in this or that case, there can be none the less in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in

the movement towards a more human way of living sexuality. >> was that the pope endorsing the use of condoms? >> no, but it sounds close, doesn't it? >> reporter: father joseph is the publisher, also a long time friend. >> when you hear that the word is out that the pope is endorsing the use of condoms in limited situations -- >> saying it's immoral, but someone could do it in a particular case having an intention of causing one's harm and that could be a first little step, but that does not say o kay, go ahead and use condoms, it's all right. >> mike barnacle, long time catholic. >> long time catholic. >> the pope uttering the word, condom, is news. >> given how conservative this pope is and his behavior, this

is an amazing step forward. just the pronouncement about condoms. it is amazing. a big step forward. >> pat, what do you think? another long time catholic. >> well, catholic teaching is that sex to be confined to marriage and every act of sex within marriage should be open to procreation, which is god's plan and nature's plan, what the pope is talking about let's say two men having sex in a bathhouse in san francisco, excuse me, there's not a high probability of anybody getting pregnant there, so you've got an entirely different plan there. but i'm not sure this was the time or place to get into that. >> not sure the pope specified the city where this was happening. >> he mentioned africa. this is a serious problem. >> about the prevention and spread of disease. >> still, wouldn't you agree that given the vatican's

thinking about this, a step forward into the 19th century, his progress in terms of who is going on? >> there's no doubt that you've got a tremendous different situation, you have rampant sexuality and the rest of it going on, my guess is that they will come out and clarify what they are saying, frankly st. thomas, in that they will not change that fundamental view. we're talking about an entirely different situation, i think. >> i think to defend you, pat, you described the church's teachings and you're right. i don't think this is going to work. i think they're going to hold back from this. it's just -- >> i don't think they can. >> it's going create a huge problem. >> mika, the pope will not pull back from the position i

described. that was cause a real schism season the church itself, but the situation the pope mentioned, gay man or something like that, is a different situation than the one we were taught about and learned about. >> i think it's going to create a schism. >> maybe the church modernizes a little bit here, talking about the spread of aids, which is clearly a problem across the world. >> if you're talking about two men having sex quit frankly, that's considered immoral anyhow and has nothing to do with procreation so i could understand why the pope would say that. >> okay. it's a fascinating conversation. >> i'm just restraining myself. ask pat a question, but -- >> what's the question? >> the two part would have been was the pope right or not and

two, what's the word rampant mean? >> oh, man. >> answers to those questions and more, later. >> okay, boys. >> willie says later. >> coming up, the "morning joe" football frenzy and the echoing editor of "foreign affairs" magazine. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] at&t and blackberry have teamed up to keep your business moving. blackberry torch now just $99.99. only from at&t. rethink possible. [ male announcer ] let's be honest. no one ever wished for a smaller holiday gift. ♪

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all right. >> oh, lord. >> roger bennett. >> roger. >> author of the great book, "everything you know is pong." >> and you will see naked people playing ping-pong and not just one. >> great to see you, sir. >> it's not me that's naked. >> i don't know where you got those pictures, but they are

playing ping-pong naked. >> we were arguing this morning about the arsonenalarsenal. >> it's a one-sided rivalry. >> that was pretty. >> since 1993 when bill clinton was president, a movie ticket cost $4 and phil collins was respected musician. they started strong, but in the second half, i don't know what -- said at halftime, a little bit of shakespeare, churchill. destroyed them. the winner, this guy overplucked his eyebrows more than the housewives of new jersey. this was shocking. like a sibling rivalry. as if dennis quaid and roger quaid. shock for the ages. >> come on, chelsea.

>> you said it last week. the chelsea machine is sputtering. we said that chelsea were the only team that could beat chelsea. they were battering all comers and now, they seem to have pushed the self-destruct button. their owner is tinkering with the coaching staff. the coach has said, i'm not in control of this team. that first win against this chelsea side in 30 years. treating the team as if it's a council. this was their title to win and they seem to be falling apart a little bit. >> my team is man united because i'm told they're most like the yankees. overpaid, hatable and they've got wayne. >> everything that's wrong with sportsman chester united are. here comes rooney back from his rehab. the question is, is he going to

be the kind of player that can destroy teams single handedly again. we've got the rest of the season to see, but they're doing okay. wiggen, cane, it was a quiet comeback. the mexican star scored again with that wonderful header. very religious man. >> we've got man city and what's the difference between man city and man united? >> manchester united old school and by the time -- back in their organization. manchester is run by the uae. new money. this coach is meant to be out. all he did was inspire his players to great affect. we have a glorious goal and then tefs, your favorite player,

mika, they become brain surgeons. >> look at that. yeah. >> speaking of new money, why are you down on liverpool? >> they gave joe scarborough all he needed over the weekend. they played the team from the top of the segment next week. stop the hemorrhaging. the john henry revolution continues. they've really stabilized the mission. it will be interesting to see if they can sell the local fans. >> we're getting breaking news. there's a professional soccer league in the united states. >> yeah? >> unconfirmed report. >> you were not alone last night. the eagles were playing the giants. you said, i don't want to watch that game. i want to watch the mls financial.

. >> that was on c-span 3. >> i think book span. next week, a real futbol match. i'm going to be there. politico will have a studio i can broadcast from. it's going to be on espn on 3:00. >> roger. >> come with me, willie. >> i'd love to. >> i will go. am i invited? >> you're always invited. >> roger bennett, always a pleasure even if you don't know what you're talking about. >> willie, can you honestly tell me what just happened? >> the book is great, too. after an 18-year run as editor of "foreign affairs" magazine, jim hoge takes inside his final issue next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the outgoing editor, jim hoge. the november-december issue marks the end of hoge's 18-year

t tenure. in the last issue, he brings together thought leaders to share their view of the world ahead. you point to three things that shape global challenges likely to arise in the years to come, so let's go through each. first of all, congratulations for being on. >> thank you. >> must have been something writing this final issue. >> it was a lot of fun and came together better than i thought because it involved a lot of moving parts and reception has been terrific, so if i had to have a final issue, i'm happy. >> you look at the changing balance of power among states and peoples. tell us what you write about there. >> essentially, it's the emergence of china and other emerging states and they're going to have their own agendas. even if it's reasonably friendly, no great wars, there's going to be a lot of tension and conflict in matching up different agendas. so if we think it's going to be a peaceful world coming up, it's going to be a very challenging

world. >> tension and conflict already is simmering there. especially china. we had donald trump on the show last week. he's always had harsh words. my father, horrified. >> china's mystifying us, in part because they have a difficult leadership transition coming up and the fighting can show in their aggressive behavior. >> we just had richard holbrooke on saying 2014 could be the beginning of the end in afghanistan for this country. what have the last ten years or so done to the united states in the world? >> well, it's diminished us in several different ways. one, the resources we've spent not just money and soldiers, lives, but energy and attention. has been devoted to really prolif rall issues compared to the challenge in china, the big

planetary issues we have to deal with, climate, how we're going to feed everybody, religion. education as the new spirit point of international competition. all these things need more attention and we have to say that as long as we're in iraq and afghanistan, we're going to have one arm tied behind our back in these major issues that need our attention and leadership. >> seen a lot of administrationings, what would you say are barack obama's two greatest foreign policy accomplishments? >> they're all in the making still. that's one of the problems. takes time. number one is to reset with russia. very important. russia should be increasingly joining europe and giving us a north atlantic european power black. that's one. number two is i think he really is on the path to get us out of

iraq and eventually afghanistan. they're not going to be major problems. as i say is still on the throne, but i think he's staying on the right track and that's not easy. >> jim, you've covered this country as well as the world. this country in your great days as newspaper publisher. education, where do we stand in this country right now, the way we educate our children compared to say japan, germany, france. >> one of the big articles in this last issue is on education as the new competitive spear point as led by arne duncan. we have gone down in terms of ranking in basic elementary education and high school education. now, we all keep saying, but we have this marvelous higher education set of institutions and that's what's going to make us more competitive. take a look at what's going on

in china, india and elsewhere where massive government funds are being used to create from the ground up, world class universities. the president of yale, i do work for him, believes that in 10 to 15 years, there will be five to six major global universities of great excellence and we'll be lucky if two are from the united states. >> university of phoenix. >> so, how would you characterize our place in the world? >> we're predominant. >> what's the rest of the sentence. >> but we have been reduced in what people think about us and have to make unsome of this. but even when we do, we are in a world in which to get what we think is right and good for our interests, we've got to cooperate more than we have. >> pat has a question. >> you've been in there 18

years. have these 18 years in your judgment been a period of real decline. >> i might rephrase it just a touch, pat, to say the others have risen, which has diminished our position some. we've contributed to it by very bad editi bad decisions. but if we are in a ke cline and cannot stop it, i don't believe that's the case. the fundamentals of the american economy are still reasonably good if we can get over the debt problem and allocate our resources better towards those things like education. >> jim hoge of "foreign affairs" magazine, 18 years later. thank you so much for your view of the world. up next, what have we learned today?

time for your business travel forecast. i'm bill karins. the middle of the country is the trouble spot. a powerful storm and lot of cold air. that means snow, sleet, freezing rain. the earn sea board, you're the lucky ones. chicago today, watch out for storms and cold and nasty in minneapolis. your core competency... is competency. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i'm getting an upgrade. [ male announcer ] indeed, business pro. indeed. go national. go like a pro.

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presidency from video from nbc and incredible text. you can get here on the ipad, incredible work of history. >> that's what you lesh learned today. >> i learned from jim hoge that the backslide of the united states is not inevitable. we can fix this. >> barnacle. >> i learned that with -- one of the secret service agents at dallas -- just referring that there are moments in american history that just never fade and this is one of them. >> that is. pat buchanan. >> lisa murkowski and barbara bush are the beginning of a stop palin movement in the republican party. >> wow. okay. thank you. also, tonight is the lupus foundations 40th anniversary event. joe and i will be hosting the gala at the lincoln center tonight. we're honored to be the hosts. that does it for us today.