a couple quick e-mails. rob, what are they saying? >> kevin says, i stayed awake on the west coast and wanted to see how well rested you are on the studio cot. >> i did. i slept right there. next. our 4-month-old can't take her morning nap until she says willie. >> yes. i am the baby whisperer. sleep my baby, sleep. "morning joe" starts right now.

>> if you were to get back out there in the public arena and run for president, would you then do interviews with the lame stream media figures? would you even do another interview with katie couric? >> i would look forward to being more open than i already am and speaking to the public. as for doing an interview with a reporter who already has such a bias against what it is i would come out and say, why waste my time? >> wow. we have to go around the table on that. good morning. it's tuesday, november 23rd. with us is mike barnicle. >> good morning, mika. >> and author of "need to no" and andy server. >> what was it about the katie couric interview that was

biased. >> if you look at the transcript of that interview, she didn't ask one partisan question, not one partisan question. what do you read? that's a stumper. >> a biased question is a question you can't answer. >> i like to go back to what barbara bush said. >> we'll get there. >> john. >> stand by. >> what katie did in that interview is what roger mud did with ted kennedy. >> right. >> it's iconic journalism and it went badly. >> right. it did go badly. there's lots of dynamics and elements that will feed into her payche paycheck. first, question have breaking news. >> the white house is strongly condemning north korea after it dumped thousands of rounds on

the southern border prompts the south to return fire. the administration says it is strongly committed to the south's defense. two south koreans were killed and dozens others hurt. several houses erupted into flames as dozens rushed to evacuate. while there are indications the shelling appears to have stopped, the incident forced south korea to scramble their f-16 fighter jets. south korea's president pledged a stern response and also called on officials to make sure quote the situation would not escalate. the squirmish comes over already increased tensions north korea's claim it has a new enriched uranium facility and it was blamed for sinking a south korean warship and killing 46 sailors. we'll watch this story and bring you more information as it comes to us. moving on to other news and another twist to the airport

screening controversy. "usa today" reports the company that supply the body scanning machines have more than doubled their spending on lobbying in the last five years. this is actually the real story opposed to the pat-downs of something that may not be working the way it should have been. according to the report. the companies have hired several high profile government officials to support them in washington. yesterday, the obama administration again sympathized with passenger's concerns. >> it's only a small percentage of passengers who get patted down. nonetheless, i think we all understand the concerns americans have. as we move forward, of course we will listen to concerns. of course we will make adjustments or changes when called upon but not changes or adjustments that will affect the basic operational capability we need to have to make sure that air travel remains safe. >> as the threat has evolved,

our screening process has had to and has evolved. these are procedures that will continue to evolve. look, the policies have to evolve. we have to continue to evolve. that will evolve. screening has to evolve. >> evolve, evolve. since it is the busiest travel time of the year, tsa chief john pistole released a video reminding travelers of the policies currently enplace. >> hello, i'm tsa administrator john pistole. i want to remind you tsa's mission is to ensure the safety of you the traveling public. if you're directed to pass-through a tit, you may opt out and if you do so, you will be patted down by someone of the same gender. if you are alarmed, you will also receive a pat-down. you have important options we want you aware of. the option to request the

pat-down be conducted in a private room and option to have that pat-down witnessed by a person of your choice. >> does that help? >> you know, this again, if you ever needed it, is proof positive we live at a time where we have such a limited attention span as a nation, it is sickening. we are now more afraid at airports apparently, of being felt up rather than blown up in the air. >> i don't disagree with that. >> here's a tip for travelers at thanksgiving. if you're upset about security at airports, take the train or take the bus. >> well- >> this is ridiculous. >> and willie who filled in for lawrence last night, how you feeling? need a pat-down? >> that doesn't help. >> but you interviewed someone who definitely had a very strong case. >> last night, a guy named thomas sawyer, a gentleman,

bladder survive, had a bag. >> sounded like it was completely- >> patted down, they broke the bag -- he was drenched in -- it was an ugh gri situation. it is worth pointing out antidotal stories like this don't necessarily make a case. >> the head of the tsa called him. >> they called him and most of these people are very professional. less than 2% of travelers actually go through this process. for all the noise, it's important to keep it in perspective. >> go ahead. >> i think there is this odd psychological factor not only to what barnicle is saying, when you're traveling, at least you're like me, you're intrinsically harried. it's hard and you -- it's a pain in the neck. >> children -- >> trying to get somewhere. >> trying to get somewhere and the lines -- so your tolerance and your capacity to remember why we're doing it- >> yeah. >> diminishes in direct proportion- >> you know what?

it's kind of in line with some complaints about this administration from the get-go. i completely agree with you the issue about being worried about being felt up rather than blown up is a perfect point. i agree with you, what else are they supposed to do. it seems like this came out of nowhere, no roll-up, no explanation, no communication with the public and you show up at the airport and people where groping you and people are surprids. >> not for willie. >> that tsa interview doesn't do anything to allay, inform or entertain. >> the visual -- >> well -- >> media training. that's what he needs. >> everyone here remembers, how you felt in october, november of 2001, when those -- the national guard guys, military guys were there, armed in the airport, everyone felt as though you were

in something together, you would have been felt up, you would have dean the feeling up. >> right. >> that sense has disappeared and dissipated but the threat is still there. >> did they say there were heightened security fears? once this started -- when this started -- >> it started a few weeks ago and seems to have come out of the blue. having said that, i agree with you, until there's a better option- >> from the packages of the underwear. >> the underwear bomber. they rushed all the screeners to production as well because of that. that's another story. >> if an airliner had blown up over detroit on christmas day, this conversation would feel very different. >> exactly. i agree. >> here's how people are feeling. a new "washington post" "abc news" poll sheds light how people feel about the security procedures. the majority, 68% believe it's more important to investigate threats to privacy, but when asked about the enhanced hand searches in place, americans are

split. 48% say they're justified, 50% say it goes too far. 64% support the use of full body x-ray scanners, while 32% oppose it. if the body scanners completely worked, that's probably the answer, i'm not sure. there are conflicts whether they actually make a difference. >> what do you suppose the question is that the 32% answered? how did they phrase the question. how could you be against this in the airport? why would you be against a body scanner? >> invasion of privacy and radiation. >> hop in your car and drive to detroit. >> i think we'll leave it there unless andy has something else to say. >> this is another front, albeit a domestic one in our class of civilization war with radical islam yet today we see the last vestige of the cold war in north and south korea. it's kind of interesting you still have that lingering while we're still fighting this other

war. kind of ironic to me. >> it is. we'll follow this. a new "usa today" poll is divided whether they want tea party backed members of congress or president obama to take the lead setting policy during the next year. 28% of americans want president obama to have the most influence while 27% prefer the tea party. congressional leaders were picked by 23% and democrats just 16%. however, the president's approval rating is lower in this poll at 42%, one percentage point higher than his historic low this summer. expectations are tempered the new republican house majority will make the country better off. 39% say the change in power won't make any difference. 1 in 5 predict it will make things worse. on the bush tax cuts, 40% say they should be extended for everyone while 44% limits for the nation's highest earners and 13% say all the cuts should be allowed to expire.

where's the room, john meech dham, for perhaps some ballpark -- by partisanship of tax cuts. >> what's affluent. >> is there room here? i would say they have to raise it. >> i think so. people have walked through what $250,000 now is for people. part of this is the wealth effect from the appreciation that did happen, appreciation of real estate. a lot of people have a lot more money than they ever thought they would, while that's net worth opposed to income question, i think you will have a very hard time, i think, keeping -- not renewing it for most folks. >> there's a lot of empathy for the rich because there's more people against the cuts than that wealthy. it's not that big a slice of people who have that much money but more people who are for extending those cuts. you see what i'm saying?

there's people empathetic for rich people who aren't rich, i guess people are aspirational, so they want to be that rich and feel like the -- leave the rich people aho lone, which is a little bit strange in this environment. >> the republican argument for the extension of the cuts is they help create jobs. >> right. is this about businesses. >> what do the experts at "forbes" magazine say on that? >> the e experts are mixed. there's emperical evidence that could support either side. it is true that tax rates alone, high or low, don't really impact business in the long run. it's economic growth and job creation that really do that. it's not the cuts that create jobs, per se. it's hard to make that connection. >> i have an idea off that story mika just read. why don't we do away with elective office and have daily polls. we have polls for everything these days and the polls never

get to the real problem, no matter tax cuts, you keep them for everybody, we still owe and enormous amount of money, the deficit, debt, we have a commission comes out with ideas how to reduce the debt a couple weeks ago, you would have thought people's hair had been set on fire in washington, their reactions. there were some sensible proposals. the reaction, to me, was shocking. >> disgraceful. >> as though there's no hope of people in washington sitting down together. >> people said we can't even discuss this. it's off the table. >> everyday, have a daily poll, what do you want to do today americans? stay in bed or go to work. >> a full body scan. >> want a pat-down? >> up next, why david axelrod is leaving the white house earlier than expected, one of the top stories next in the political playbook. up next, mike huckabee goes on "the view" and issues a

warning. a check on the forecast. >> good morning. it's an active weather day. we had tornadoes in chicago and this morning, we're waking up to horrible weather out west. east coast, enjoy the warmth while it lasts, talking about boston. green in that city and rain moving to syracuse, rochester, pittsburgh, showers for you. the rest of us, clouds will increase maybe a sprinkle or two, very moiled. look at d.c., almost near 70 degrees. cold air, pouring in from canada. look at minneapolis, only 22, montana, only 5 degrees. that's your high temperature. blizzard warnings in colorado, utah, idaho. look at seattle. seattle had 22 inches of snow yesterday. watch the get away tomorrow. stormy weather still remains, northern plains, chicago, st. louis area. by the time thanksgiving day arrives, it slides to the ohio

valley. macy's parade in new york, a close call. it should be moving in during the day thursday. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ william ] three years ago, i started my first real job

as a part time sales associate with walmart. when william came in i knew he had everything he needed to be a leader in this company. [ william ] after a couple of months, i was promoted to department manager. like, wow, really? me? a year later, i was promoted again. walmart even gave me a grant for my education. recently, he told me he turned down a job at one of the biggest banks in the country. this is where i want to be. i fully expect william will be my boss one day. my name is william and i work at walmart. ♪ but i knew that i was going to need a day job. we actually have a lot of scientists that play music. the creativity, the innovation, there's definitely a tie there. one thing our scientists are working on is carbon capture and storage, which could prevent co2 from entering the atmosphere. we've just built a new plant to demonstrate how we can safely freeze out the co2 from natural gas. it looks like snow. it's one way that we're helping provide energy with fewer emissions.

they're making a big deal about this. it turns out most people think it's necessary. that is you go to an airport and they say, we can have an undesirable guy grope you or you can go through the naked body scanner. which would you prefer? i'm always thinking, wait a minute, why can't we have both? >> looking to travel this

holiday season? don't want to wait on long security lines and have your personal space violated? come on over to greyhound, where we don't pat anyone down. in fact, anything goes. bring what you want, sit where you want. some airlines frown on their pilots drinking. we encourage our drivers to party. greyhound, no rules, just right. >> wow! okay. 20 past the hour. live shot. >> how about that one? you ever done that? >> time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the "new york times." the front page photo shows the deadly stampede at the festival in cambodia. more than 350 people killed when thousands panicked thinking a bridge was about to collapse. >> and a high speed tug-a-war. with the obama administration trying to upgrade the nation's

transportation system. those in ohio about to kill projects if they become a drain on taxpayers. new source of revenue. colorado is selecting more than $2 million in taxes from its new medical marijuana sales. >> residue, residue. big business. "wall street journal." only in new york would anyone pay $210 for an hour of tennis. >> my god, where is that? >> that's the planned rate for a new tennis facility being built in grand central station terminal. >> come on! >> just stop them now. >> why would you do that in grand central? >> with us, chief white house correspondent, mike allen. he has a look at the playbook. hey, mike. >> good morning, guys. >> how's everything with the news? >> what's going on there? >> you should see patrick gavin. we play tough here at "politico." >> i know what happened, patrick

threw mike down the exorcist steps. they do it all the time. >> everything good? >> patrick and i were doing our daily run on the exorcist steps. >> so we won't hear what really happened? >> i guess not. >> veiled mystery. >> i guess it's the frequency. >> let's talk david axelrod. you doing reporting on his departure, apparently going to happen earlier than expect? >>. >> >> obama 2.0 is getting a little bit of jump-start. david axelrod will leave after the president's state of the union ends of january, early february, rather than the springtime frame they've been talking about before and also significantly, david plouffe, the president's campaign manager from '08 will be coming in the west wing in early january, as soon as they come back from holidays, will start this pivot of reorganization, getting ready for the president's re-election which will probably kim in heavily in the spring.

>> how important is david axelrod to barack obama? we know valerie jarrett, david axelrod make up his inner circle. how much will he miss him being next to him in the white house? >> we do. he's one of the reasons he's president obama. he will be in the inner circle as he goes to lead the re-election campaign. one of the reasons they probably will base the re-election campaign in chicago is because, as you guys know, david's family has stayed in chicago. he wants to spend more time with them. we're told the reason ackle rod's departure is being moved up a little bit, recharge his batteries and then head to the re-election. >> we understand he's earned it. the on administration seeking reconciliation with the corporate world. what's the white house going to do here? >> valerie jarrett, told us

she's going to do more lunches, more outreach to business. she said the president wants more input from business. they're looking at a couple events the president could do nextmont possibly speaking to the chamber of commerce, was his enemy number 1 in the re-election campaign. we're finding business is suspicious. they're saying we need more lunches. there's a lot of ill will that came up from the president's populist rhetoric the last few months. business wants policy changes, appreciate being listened to but want real changes during this obama 2.0. >> the charge has been the obama white house is anti-business. is there any valid -- >> jean cummings and ben white in this piece say they don't get it. there's not a ceo in the west

wing or cabinet. the white house says, wait a minute. why aren't they more grateful for the fact that we saved the economy and, by the way, there's a lot of ceos doing pretty well. the dow has bounced back significantly. where's the thanks? >> i talk to ceos all the time about this. they're almost universal in the believe the president is completely 100% tone deaf, he lumped them all together and i talk to democratic ceos who say we have no connection to the white house and they're shocked, surprised. i talked to president obama about this a couple months ago and said how come there is this feeling out there? he sort of laughed it off. he was surprised. i thought he would take it seriously and now maybe he's waking up to hear it. there are a lot who can help him out, alan mulally of ford and federal express ceo and people

who did the right thing and holding them up as poster children for american business that's done the right thing. >> this is a very troubling notion, the idea president obama would be speaking to you? >> you speak to me. >> that cost 10 swing seats. >> you think so? is that why the election went so badly? it was before the election, john. >> i'm curious, though. are there ceos? there must be because ceos do it by nature, who will go to the white house and say, mr. president, this is where you are wrong. that's something he should invite. anybody who wants to offer this critique to my face, come on and do it. >> andy, you might be able to bear me out, what you hear from a lot of ceos, especially democrats who max out to him financially right away, they think there's an air of arrogance by this administration led by the president's own arrogance when it comes to dealing with business and they tell him things like that and he

will say, no, you don't understand. >> that's right. they feel like they're not being heard. >> i would do a summit, if i were the white house, i'd say come in and tell me. put it on c-span. >> i'll tell him. >> still ahead, george pataki, tom brokaw and eugene robinson. plus, chargers and broncos collide on monday night football. san diego quarterback, philip rivers going to make highlights this season? so, during sign then drive i can get a cc for just my signature? that's right,

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it is 31 past the hour. a live look at time square, before the sun comes up over new york city this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." a quick look at the news. fbi agents have searched the offices of three hedge funds in an ongoing insider trading

scandal that may result in arrests of wall street brokers. manhattan, and connecticut and boston have been raided. they are not saying which are the subject of the criminal investigation and stress no arrests have been filed as of yesterday but insider trading is called rampant and some of the richest and most powerful traders on wall street are involved. a new watchdog reports federal agents are responsible for driving nuclear weapons and other sensitive materials sometimes got drunk on the job. >> oh, that's not good. >> the energy department's assistant inspector general found 16 alcohol related incidents between 2007 and 2009 involving the agents. two particularly alarming times agents on overnight missions locked away their vehicles, partied a little too hard and

then were detained by police. >> let me get my backup. >> feeling safe here, give us a pat-down. and what is said to be the nation's toughest anti-bullying laws. yesterday, the senate overwhelmingly passed it and went to governor chris christie. the suicide of freshman tyler clementi in december and it would include analysty bullying programs at schools and ant anti-conduct policy to address bullying. >> good for them. >> it has to be done. monday night football, chargers taking on broncos, first quarter, philip rivers, tim tebow. chargers throwing in a bag of contribution. how about a fake punt? no rush. the punter has plenty of time to throw. it's mike tolbert for a 28-yard gain. broncos had no idea what was happening there.

a six-yard pass to malcolm floyd, finding him in the back of the end zone, rivers just warming up there, threw for four touchdowns, matching a career high, including this bullet to darren sproles. this guy had wheels on him. look at him go, 57 yards for the touchdown. chargers beat. denver falls to 3-7. phillip rivers still on pace perhaps to catch the single season all time passing yardage mark, set by dan marino. in other nfl news, minnesota vikings getting rid of their head coach. brad childers gone after four seasons. last year, he led vikings within a field goal of a super bowl and got a contract extension. injuries, player unrest, led to an ugly 3-7 start to this season. the final straw came sunday when vikings were embarrassed at home, 31-3 by the rival green bay packers. minnesota named defensive coordinator leslie frazier as

the interim head coach the remainder of the season. at a press conference yesterday, frazier was asked if he would replace the struggling injured brett farve at quarterback? >> i believe brett farve will get it going and those turnovers will come down and we'll get going as a football team. i really believe that. >> brett farve is his man. good luck with that. the national mvp was announced, and for the first time in two years, it was not albert pujols. joey votto of the cincinnati reds was named with a landslide of the votes and he led the reds to their first playoff berth in 15 years, beating out the cardinals for the central division title. he had a great season. >> he had a great season. he deserved that award. when he wasn't in the lineup, you saw what happened when they played the phillies. when they shut him down, they

shut the team down. >> you can always listen to "morning joe" live on satellite radio surius 90 xm 120. ♪ for he's a jolly good fellow ♪ the meeting's tomorrow in dallas ♪ ♪ we need to finish those projections ♪ ♪ then output the final presentations ♪ ♪ sally, i'm gonna need 40 copies, obviously collated ♪ what's going on? when we're crunched for time, brad combines office celebrations with official business. it's about efficiency. [ courier ] we can help. when you ship with fedex, you can work right up until the last minute. it gives you more time to get stuff done. that's a great idea.

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i think it's going to be harder to beat barack obama than a lot of republicans are thinking. he is the president. he will have a billion starting out in his war chest, an extraordinary advantage of an incumbent. a divided government is good for the executive branch. what that means is when the executive and legislative

branches fight, the executive always wins. >> huckabee on "the view." time for our must read opinion pages. we will start with david brooks. it's called sin and taxes. before i read it, he asks this question. has anybody discovered the political formula to get spending cuts, tax increases and other reforms through congress. he goes on to say this. the idea leader in this mental system is free from moral anxiety, but full of passionate intensity. this leader pushes his troops in lock-step before the voracious foe. each party has its own version of whom the evil elites are but both feel they have more to fear from their enemies than from their own simpleness. compromise is thus impossible. money matters should be negotiable. how can one compromise with opponents who are the source of all the corruption? jon meacham. >> this is -- david's making a richard hofstra argument from 1964. this is this paranoid style in american politics.

if you are always standing at a turning point in history, always on the barricades with the hordes coming at you, it's not a matter of politics, a matter of theology and destiny. politics is about working things out, about life in a city, the root of the word that means city. if the moment something becomes so charged that any compromise is a compromise with evil, then you've just removed it from the -- our capacity to actually fix it. i think that is the prevailing narrative right now, because it's so fulfilling to be standing at the barricade, as the last man standing between the hordes and order. >> when politics becomes ideology instead of pragmatism. the goal isn't to work something

out and to stand there and become a demagogue, you don't have a system that works. >> and isn't the problem he's framing both sides look like each other? >> right. >> opposed to accusing them. >> one of the most dangerous elements of politics today, if you look at it on a daily basis, it has mirrored the culture in the sense it's all of the moment. it's not down the road. >> right. >> it's not history, it's not what's best for the country. it's of the moment. nothing proved that to me more lately than jon kyl, senator from arizona last week, coming out against the treaty talked about seven, eight months now in the united states senate. >> one caution i would make is politics has always been susceptible to this because it's a human enterprise and human impulse to want to cast yourself as the great hero. our history has been marked by six or seven moments, where presidents and congresses and

people have put aside their absolute momentary needs to invest in the future, for about 10 minutes. life is about those 10 minutes. you know, lincoln was a segregationist before the emansion pegues proclamation. he became, in a moment, the did the right thing. franklin roosevelt admitted, i'm a juggler, i never let my left hand know what my right hand was doing. and said the was the coldest son of a -- you have ever seen. he did the right thing. john kennedy was a tough tough politician. in 1962, in october he saved the world because he was smart and he made a deal. i just think those are the exceptions. we live for the exceptions and we have to figure out some way to make the climate more congenial for those exceptions. >> bob herbert looks back at kennedy and says this.

you can say whatever you like about the kennedy era and '60s in general but there was great energy in the population then and a willingness to reach beyond one's self. kennedy spoke in his acceptance speech of a choice between national greatness and national decline. that choice was never so stark as right now. there is still time to listen to a voice from a half a century ago. i ask, is there an iconic message this president could give to this country, similar to what we were talking about on the phone yesterday, admonition for the country but linked with some sort of inspiration that brings us through? >> absolutely. yesterday was the anniversary of the assassination of president kennedy. november 1963 was the moment at which public faith and the capacity of government to do good reached in gallup, its all time high and it started going down at that point. i think if we don't find some way to say, you know what, government's good at x, y and z,

the private sector, a, b and c, if it's not one or the other, until we do that, it's frustrating. >> john f. kennedy had a huge advantage dealing with the country in 1960, a snap of a finger in terms of history but lifetimes away, he had a huge advantage in the sense history, you didn't have it taught well in high school or grammar schools. history was at the kitchen table. your parents and grandparents knew about world war ii and depression, it was right there, you heard it every evening. easy to grab a sense of optimism in 1960, gee, we just survived this and this young president can take us there, let's go! >> what about another president from the 1960s talking about tension between ideology and pragmatism, lbj, wasn't he the ultty mat practicing practicingmy -- ultimate practicingmytist who didn't have an ideological bone in his body

and he was able to put something some huge majorities. they were early. in the aftermath of the assassination, we forget this. his landslide in '64, '65 the high water mark and in '66, he experienced not unlike obama including election of a guy in california named reagan. >> vietnam caught up with him. >> it's five minutes. you could argue 1965 for the liberals the great moment of eden and 1981, '82. >> the fall of '64, they call it the fabulous 89th congress and ushered in 100 new members of congress all went with lbj on anything he wanted. >> are we capable of bipartisanship outside of congress? it's easy to be bipartisan after 9/11. or is it viewed as a weakness. >> it is viewed as a weakness. >> that's what i mean. this is my five minute

principle. there are some big things, the g.i. bill, social security, medicare, the reagan, roth in 1981, moments big things happen. i don't want to say the rest isn't important but the rest is the price you pay for the break through moments. that's history. ideally, everyone would come reason together. as a practical matter, ever since jefferson and hamilton were at war with each other, this is not new. this is not new. we have to be careful just because something has happened before doesn't mean it's not happening now. before we go to a break, i promised sarah palin, the other dynamic of this to make lots of money, how many should we make her right now? i think she could bring in a couple g. she says she's creating a new launching a 2012 presidential -- at least creating speculation around that. she discussed her chances on fox

news and what the potential first dude has to say about a potential bid. >> what is it that our country needs? we know we need common sense, we know we need experience in the oval office. we know we need someone who believes in time-tested truths and restoration of all that is good and exceptional about america versus the transformation of america presently we see coming out of the oval office. there is no one i see in a position to beat barack obama. if i feel i am the candidate who can beat barack obama, i will run. todd's right by my side. whether i chose to run for office or to continue being an advocate for our constitution and our freedoms and our free enterprise, todd would be there by my side no matter what realm we would be in. >> can i take that as todd leaning yes or is that unfair? >> i would think todd would be leaning yes. of course i believe i could beat barack obama, otherwise, why

would i even be contemplating a run? again, of course, it is only contemplation at this time, but i'd be in it to win it. >> ka-ching. isn't that a cash register? >> the book is out today. >> we were talking about lbj and kennedy -- oh, well. in a few minutes, new york governor, george pataki will be here, first, willie, what do you have? >> you will like this. >> good. >> oprah's favorite things. we show it not for the favorite things but the looks on the faces, the tears, the screaming. >> my god. >> the irrational behavior. >> is that "dancing with the stars"? >> my lord. >> much worse than that. >> when we come back.

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so they can focus on building amazing bikes. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. god, i need this. please tell me it's time. >> tonight, we watch history. that's right. "dancing with the stars" finale. >> what? >> that's right. >> bristol palin, she could win the thing. >> she's in the finals? >> last night, making her closing argument to the american

voters. >> you're kidding. >> with a cage dance, out of chicago, the broadway -- >> cage dancing, bristol palin. a lot of people saying she doesn't deserve to be there. by golly, she takes exception to that. >> what's that? >> is this a skit? >> this is "dancing with the stars." >> it's real? >> very popular program. >> she's doing okay there. bristol says she deserves to be there. >> you all right? >> no, you're not. >> i'm fine. >> i'm not. >> yeah, you are. >> no, i'm not. >> it sucks that people still don't think i deserve to be here. >> brandy and max. >> people got freaked-out when i was saved and brandy eliminated. i got the same score brandy did and people don't acknowledge my improvement week by week. >> jennifer grey. >> this is high end stuff. >> from the dancing movie. bristol palin or the other guy.

>> flash dance? >> who has the best chance at ohio? >> jennifer grey. >> as ohio goes, so goes "dancing with the stars." >> oh, no. >> is surreality a word? i will use it. it continued when christine o'donnell tweeted her support for bristol last night. just voted for bristol on "dancing with the stars." she's enduring a lot. she should be proud. it's shameful the way she's being attacked. >> there there was a magazine called signs of the aapocalypse. >> this is oprah's last year. >> she's leaving? oh, no! >> she gave out ipads and ugg boots. >> i love uggs. >> they're very excited about the ipads. tears over an ipad?

jumping jacks. that gentleman sneaked into the auditorium. plenty of excitement. let's sigh why they're really so excited. >> thanks, santa. okay. calm down. calm down. calm down. it's not what you think. it's not what you think. not what you think. not what you think. i wanted to give everyone of these to you, but vw said, no. they did. they said, sorry, oprah, we cannot give everybody this beetle. i tried, but they said maybe we can do one better. how about if we give each person in your audience the brand-new totally redesigned 2012 volkswagen! >> there's the jumping jacks,

you're not getting a car, you're getting a better car. >> it's crazy. she was toying with their minds. look at them crying. >> i like that. >> emotions are very fragile, not nice. >> here she is. >> i love it! seriously. >> good news, we have details on the royal wedding. >> really? >> yes. and former new york governor george pataki joins the conversation next. [ s. greenlee ] i would love to have been a musician but i knew that i was going to need a day job. we actually have a lot of scientists that play music. the creativity, the innovation, there's definitely a tie there. one thing our scientists are working on is carbon capture and storage, which could prevent co2 from entering the atmosphere. we've just built a new plant to demonstrate how we can safely freeze out the co2 from natural gas. it looks like snow. it's one way that we're helping provide energy with fewer emissions.

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routan. i don't agree, but okay. top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and joe meachem are still with us. joining us at the table, former governor of new york, george pataki. chris has the live shot, buckingham palace has announced details of the wedding for prince william and his fiance, kate middleton. they have a date, friday, april 29th at westminster abbey. that's why we're looking at it. breaking news out of the korean peninsula. the white house is condemning north korea after it fired artillery rounds to the south's border, prompting the south to return fire. the administration is saying it's in close contact with the south and firmly committed to its defense. south korean officials say two

south korean marines were killed and dozens of others hurt. north korea says it was conducting a test fire before today's exchange of fire but says it fired west, not north. while there are indications the shelling appears to have stopped, u.s. military officials tell msnbc news the incident forced south korea to scramble their f-16 fighter jets. south korea's president pledge a firm response and also called on officials to make sure quote the situation would not escalate. the squirish comes amid increased tensions of north korea's claim it has a new uranium enrichment facility, back in march and blamed a north korean torpedo sinking a south korean warship and killing 46 sailors. jon meacham, characterize how you think it is escalating yesterday. ambassador holbrook didn't seem surprised on the news of the uranium. >> a reminder we're still

dealing with great power politics, china, korea, asia will be hugely important not only economic force but a place where our traditional balance of power issues will play out. i once asked a head of government from that region, when he woke up in the middle of the night, what worried him the most? we were right in the middle of a uranium scare at the time. i expected him to say something about that. he said the first 24 hours after kim jong il dies, because we just don't know who will fill that vacuum. kim jong il has tried to position his son. you do have the possibility that unknown forces and the military other forces could step into that vacuum. we are always counting, particularly in the nuclear am in, on states being rational actors. we simply don't know if north korea will continue to be a rational actor. >> so, again, breaking news overnight, north and south korea exchanging fire near the border.

we'll follow that and bring you new developments as they become available. "usa today" is reporting that the companies that supply the nation's body scanning machines have more than doubled their lobbying spending in the last five years. the report says the companies have also hired several high profile former government officials to support them in washington. the obama administration again responded to passenger concerns. >> it's only a small percentage of passengers who get patted down. nonetheless, i think we all understand the concerns americans have, as we move forward, of course, we will listen to concerns. of course we will make adjustments or changes when called upon, but not changes or adjustments that will affect the basic operational capability we need to have to make sure that air travel remains safe. >> as the threat has evolved, our screening process has had to

and has evolved. these are procedures that will continue to evolve. look, the policies have to evolve. we have to continue to evolve. that will evolve. the screening has to evolve. >> all right. so obviously, since the controversy erupted, the tsa has been trying to sort of get everybody to calm down. the administrator, john pistole, the chief, released a video, reminding travelers what the pat-down would be like and why it's important to be secure when traveling and for the country to be safe. but governor pataki, weigh in on the pat-downs. what are they supposed to -- >> we just heard security has to evolve. of course, it does. one of the evolutions has to be to listen to the american people. i travel all the time. we need to do everything we can to make sure that someone can't take a weapon or a bomb on to an airplane. i think the enhanced scanning that has just been deployed is a very positive thing. it does allow us to see potential risks we couldn't see

before that. having said that, i still don't understand why the hundreds of thousands of people who fly regularly can't get some sort of bioidentity card where they can go through without compounding the problem. it could be done a lot more efficiently, a lot less intrusively and much less delaying manner. i think we should -- as they talk about evolution, why is that not at the top of the list? >> i think the rollout of these changes in procedure is the biggest problem here. people didn't really see it coming. >> the roll out is a problem because all of a sudden, you've traveled before and all of a sudden, there's a totally different means of patting you down. >> has it happened to you? >> i've been wanded and patted but not enhanced patted, which i'm very glad about that. >> good luck traveling today. >> the problem with tsa in the eyes of most americans, they always seem to be fighting the last war, we have to take our shoes off because of richard reid, can't bring our shampoo because somebody tried to mix

chemicals and get patted down -- on the other hand, are you confident the tsa is on top of whatever threats are out there? >> i don't think you can ever be confident we're doing everything possible to protect ourselves. that's why you do have to continually look to change the procedures. i think the enhanced scanning devices are not a reaction to some risk of the past, there's something where we're being proactive. that's a good thing. the pat-down, i don't know about that. obviously, it's something you have to balance the risk based on information they have that we don't. as to what possible items could be taken onto a plane against intrusion of the american people. what i have not understood the last couple of years is why the hundreds of thousands of people who travel by airplane regularly can not get some bio-identity cards, minor screening, fast tracks, not only helps them, helps everybody else waiting in line. it's not just thanksgiving when people go to see relatives, it's

an important part of our economy, ability to get around this country, engage in global economic activity and god knows we need more economic activity in this country right now. speaking of economic activity administration has

ran tough, like the government takeover of health care are not working and they are in fact affecting people's lives in a

negative way. i think you look at where we are from a budget standpoint, trillion dollars deficits as far as the eye can see. michael, you saw ireland essentially gave up an essential part of its sovereignty to the eu because it was broke. if we don't get spending under control, we will be broke, instead of that, this administration has seen discretionary spending go through the roof. >> the status or the performance of this administration is what makes her a potential winner? >> you also have to have ideas and experience and the ability to articulate. >> does she have the ideas and experience and ability? >> that's what campaigns are about. >> i mean, come on. >> i'm here, come on. if she is a candidate, she has an obligation to the american people not just to criticize the president but have a vision for the future. if she does choose to run, i'm confident she would. >> you are governor of a big state, basically a national figure, governor of new york.

what does she do about the fact that she quit in a small state? she quit. >> obviously, that is troubling to a lot of people, including me. i think you do, when the going gets tough, god knows over the 12 years i was governor, we had times when it was hard to put your shoes on in the morning but you just got through it because you know it is your obligation to do that. i think the speech she gave, if that's the right word, announcing her resignation, needs to be clarified. she has to say exactly what it was that motivated her to go out on a national stage at the expense of leaving the job of alaska. as i said to mika. it's all what a campaign is about. questions will be asked and you answer them and have to lay out a venue. >> she ran for -- we watched her on the campaign trail. she was a candidate for vice president and she has been all over the media putting her ideas out there. does she have the ideas and the ability to articulate?

>> i think what she really was doing was not articulating a vision for the future but helping candidates this past election. that's a different thing. there, it wasn't about her. it was about those candidates and their ability - ability -- particularly in the house -- to change the direction of this country. i sound like sarah palin's press agent. >> i know, really. jon meacham. >> two questions. one, is sarah palin qualified to be commander in chief? >> she has to show that to the american people. so that's a no. no, that's not a no. it's anyone who seeks to become the president of this country has to convince the american people, including the elite media, to the extent a very narrow -- you have the ability to lead this country and be commander in chief. do you believe -- talk about the republican party. >> fairly or not, you're seen as a more moderate figure, governor of new york, northeastern republican, which is, i think there are six of you now.

basically. >> actually, there was quite a comeback a few weeks ago in the northeast. you could see, it would not be unfair for people to talk about palin and -- >> you can see it would not be unfair for people to talk about you and palin as north and south policy of the republican party. do you believe the republican party has to take a more pataki directions or palin? >> you're talking north and south policy. that is all imagery based on sarah palin helping other candidates and running for vice president and the impression people get when you are in office in a state like new york. just if sarah palin chooses to run, she has to articulate ideas, so, too, does anyone else whether they come from the tea party movement from the so-called moderate movement or neo con movement. you have to outline your ideas. i think what the republican party has to do is no fit into some label of moderate or tea party or this but have ideas the american people look at and say, yeah, this will work.

we can't forget for the victories republicans had november 2nd we got fired a couple years ago because we were given an opportunity to run the country and didn't do it well. >> what are the ideas? what do you think the republican party or that candidate needs to say and do to move the country forward? >> three big issues. one is how do you get the economy going? you have two different models. the left obama model, government borrow money from china and spend it on government programs and with special interests to grow the economy. or you believe, as i do, that you create economic growth by empowering the private sector, particularly small businesses by lower tax burden, reduced regulatory burden and a clear public policy climate how they can add jobs and grow the economy. you also have to startrecuse -- reduce telling deficit, raise taxes or cut spending? to me, it's pretty simple, reduce spending and entitlements at the federal level and can't raise taxes on anyone,

particularly those who create jobs. talking about north korea. security is still a tremendous issue in this country. we take it for granted we're not attacked. we look at the tsa screening and say, pat-downs we don't need them, maybe we do. there are still people out there trying to bring their terror to the streets of america. we have to look at things like how we treat terrorist, will we have civilian trials for mass murderers like we saw in new york where he was acquitted of 284 of 285 counts? will we try khalid shaikh mohammed as a civilian with rights as american citizen or tried in a military tribunal so we can protect our intelligence sources and make sure he gets justice. there are a great many issues where my party has an obligation to show the american people we can govern and not just criticize. >> who here at the table thinks governor pataki is not even possibly thinking of running? >> whether he's thinking of running or not, i bet he is

thinking of running. >> i ran 2 1/2 miles yesterday. >> governor 12 years, you're governor, in a state that's a nation state. big budgets, terrorism, september 11th. >> right. >> you went to amherst college, get a sense of what it's like to learn. >> i didn't go to amherst, actually. >> so, in your wildest imagination, north korea shells and island off south korea, in your wildest imagination, can you see sarah palin dealing with that today? >> if she were the commander in chief of the united states, she would deal with it. you look at it, can this one person do it? part of leading is surrounding yourself with good people with experience with expertise and being willing to listen to them. ultimately, you have to make the call and you have to make the judgment and you have to do that based on not just their input but your experience and intelligence and the thoughts that you have had about issues such as north korea. but the answer is, i think if

she surrounded herself with the right people and dedicated the time necessary to having the depth of knowledge of an issue like that, that she could. you believe that? >> yeah. i said it. i said it. what do you think i am, mika? a politician? of course i believe what i say. >> he was a mayor. >> good mayor. ? thank you so much. when we come back, savannah guthrie has the headlines out of the white house including the president heading out on his first domestic trip since the mid-terms and tom brokaw gets his take on the korean peninsula. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill m. we're getting close to the busiest travel days. and the north is uncooperative. on the east coast, we're the lucky ones for now. watching showers move through buffalo and syracuse and pittsburgh. they will arrive on the eastern

seaboard a little later. it will weaken, expect a little light rain and activity from boston to hartford, maybe philly. look how warm it is? .temperatures should not be in the 60s but that's what we will get. warnings out west, blizzard warnings in salt lake city, high elevation snow. it snowed 2 inches yesterday and that is where it will stay.

what do you think of his relationship with bill?

>> i liked it. it took me a while. you can't dislike bill. he's very likable. he was so good to george. george would tell me over and over again, he would let george have the bed. he's just really nice. i have a feeling that bill were i ins -- bill wishes he had a father like george, truthfully. >> he'd be a lucky man if he did. >> absolutely. charming man for sure. look at the sun coming over the white house. 22 past the hour. joining us now from the white house, nbc news white house correspondent and cohost of the daily run down, savannah guthrie. good morning. >> good morning. >> the president takes his first domestic trip since the mid-terms, going to a chrysler plant. he's doing -- we were talking about the first hour, trying to celebrate success of american businesses and success this white house has had. the question is, will the country be listening? >> that is the question. this is a 2 for 1 in many

senses. first of all, the vice president and president obama are going to coke indiana today and this is the first of two administration policies that have worked. they will visit a chrysler plant, chrysler receiving a federal bailout and the administration points to press coverage, maybe 3500 jobs saved there alone. this is town that used to have unemployment at its peak over 20% and now come down to 12%, obviously not ideal but going in the right direction as well. this is also a town that's gotten hundreds of millions of dollars in recovery act funding. that is the thrust of the policy message today, some of these measures taken by the administration have worked. the other piece is something the president talked about pretty candidly in the mid-term news conference, the day after the mid-term news conference, he feels he's isolated and not connecting as much with the

american people. this is part of that, trying to get out and talk to folks. >> mike barnicle. >> the north korean incident overnight, did they wake the president up with this? what's the status? >> reporter: he was awakened 4:00 in the morning by the national security advisor. and told about this. the white house issued a strong statement condemning the attack. obviously, the president will hear more about this when he has his daily intelligence briefing this morning. this is the second of pretty belligerent actions recently with the north and i'm sure you talked about it around the table, wondering what the north is up to? is it trying to gain more leverage in any talks that may happen down the road? is it looking for a payoff, as it often does when it's obviously facing devastating shortages within the country and the other issue was the succession plan? was it trying to flex muscle as

there's this change in the leadership at the top. all questions the white house is looking closely at. >> in terms of the white house team, we've been reporting on the impending departure of david axelrod being moved up and david plouffe as well. what's causing this change in schedule? >> reporter: basically, david axelrod looked at the schedule, knew he was going back to chicago, plan early spring and i have to go earlier if i want any chance at all to recharge. the burn-out factor is high in these jobs. i talked to a lot of different folks today. doesn't seem to be anything other than him wanting to accelerate his departure so he can get a little bit of rest before diving into the re-elect all likelihood based out of chicago. there will be a lot of personnel changes that happen over the next month or two leading up to to the state union. pete roust, chief of staff is working on this plan.

i saw david plouffe coming into the white house yesterday and expected to come in with a senior advisor role and a lot of shifting. >> keep us posted. savannah guthrie, live at the white house. thank you very much. you can catch savannah on "the daily rundown" 9:00 eastern time on msnbc. and weighing in on the breaking news out of the korean peninsula, live from washington, next on "morning joe."

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we're following breaking news. the u.n. security council could hold an emergency meeting in breaking days after north korea fired on south korea prompting the south to return fire. the white house strongly condemned the attack, calling on the north to halt its belligerent action. msnbc is at the pentagon. >> reporter: mika, even for the

unpredictable north korea, these actions are alarming according to u.s. military officials i've talked to overnight including this morning. for several hours, the north korea pounded that south korean island with as many as 100 artillery shells killing two north korean marines and wounding many civilians. that situation remains volatile today. the south koreans did fire back in scrambled f-16 jets. the u.s. military realizing how volatile this situation is, is keeping very quiet. i talked to the u.s. military in south korea this morning and they stressed the u.s. military was in no way involved in any of these actions. that's all they'd say, showing everybody is walking on eggs this morning for fear this thing could blow apart at any minute. >> jon meacham. >> there's a reason they call it the forbidden kingdom. what's your sense of how good our intelligence is about what's

happening at the highest levels, in terms of cessation and who would be making this call now and why? >> i don't get a sense it's all that good, john. particularly when you talk to u.s. officials about the intelligence and what they share with you, it's pretty much open source. the only evidence they have of kim jong's physical condition is when he shows up at a military parade, quite frankly. in this latest revelation when the north koreans invited a u.s. nuclear scientist, several, to north korea, to take a look, u.s. officials said they didn't inspect the facility, just took a tour because they're not sure it's functioning at this point. by doing that, they were pretty much bothing they at least had the capability to enrich uranium. yesterday, while u.s. officials said we were aware north korea was pursuing this, secretary

gates in a trip in south korea said we knew they were trying to do it but we didn't know they had this facility so i don't think it's that quick. >> any word on state of alertness for the american military in the south or fleet movements? >> they have to be on alert but they don't discuss openly that alert status. the people i talked to this morning in south korea, they had their mouths zippered, they weren't saying anything about the activities only to say the u.s. military wasn't involved. they have to be in some heightened state of alert and certainly concerned. >> jim at the pentagon. coming up, tom brokaw. be sure to subscribe to the morning minutes newsletter. sign up at joe@msnbc.com. eonpoe

everyone's getting in on it over the weekend. secretary of state hillary clinton said she would not like to go through the pat-downs herself. wouldn't. after hearing this, bill clinton said i think we all know where hillary stands on being touched. >> really? okay. we're back on. we'll hear more about that. joining us now with jon meacham, mike barnicle and with us back at the table, nbc news' tom brokaw. willie got his pat-down yesterday live on "morning joe." it went well for him. >> courtesy of mika. >> and the tsa has now released a video to help people understand. do we have that video? i think tom might want to see it. >> i'm tsa administrator, john pistole. as you travel this holiday season, i want to remind you.

>> tom, given that you've been through a few- >> i've been traveling a lot and had a broken ankle so i had a boot cast on. i always say to them as i arrive, i have a boot on. they say, okay, does it set off the alarm. i say, no, i walk through a mag tom ter or body scan and it doesn't set anything off. what was irritating to me was the unpredictability of the process. i didn't know what i was going to have to do once i got through that. some, i wait four or five minutes, sometimes 10 minutes, somebody to do a pat-down or wipe or speck to graph or whatever chemical analysis. in jacksonville i did all that, they took off the boot and ran it, said take it off, we want to run it through one more time. i was listening to a tsa official saying we want unpredictability, i understand that. then terrorists or suspects don't have a routine they can figure a way around. it seems to me they need to do it more efficiently, i guess that's it. also, i don't get who has

equipment and who doesn't. >> i know. i don't think a lot of people -- >> some airports i go to, they have a cast scan and i go and stand next to it. they x-ray it, i guess. i don't know about the x-ray, whether or not the radiation is anything. but that's after they've done the wipedown with a patch and put it through the speck to graph and that came out clean and we'll show off our latest toy. my own experience and i travel a great deal, the smaller the airport, the tour of the standard. here is my favorite story. in montana this summer, there were a number of -- who shall go nameless officials from both the supreme court and white house out there fishing and having recreational opportuniti opportunities -- one of them came to -- a group came from the pentagon to helena, montana, and they flew out on a commercial

flight, their security staff did. the security guy for very senior people from the pentagon, goes up to the airport, says, i'm armed, here is my permit, here is who i am. thank you very much. where is the weapon? he takes it out, takes all the ammunition out, puts it on the belt. he walks through, forgets he has a swiss army knife. they lock and load his dplok and give it back to him but confiscate his swiss knife. you figure that one. >> that's great. a little inconsistent perhaps. >> or merciful. >> it is. mike barnicle, you brought up the point at 6:00, the fact we're having this argument and the fact there is this controversy, what else are they supposed to do? one terrorist strike and we'll be asking for them. do you agree? >> i do. i think as much as anything, patients get impatient -- not patient, passengers become impatient with the absence of

efficiency with it. you go into any airport, a larger one, see people gassing off to the side what they did last night, what they will do during their lunch break and call into the microphone, i have a male pat-down over here. okay. a lot of people wandering around. can we get the guy over here at some point and produce him? somebody wanders over. it doesn't operate with clockwork efficiency. passengers who are now experiencing all this, most of them arrive, in like the george clooney movie, knowing to take off their loafers and belt or bag and they're ready to go. if the system doesn't match that, that fuels a lot of frustration. >> you're absolutely right on two scores. people get angry at the level of efficiency or inefficiency and the level of predictability or unpredictability from airport to airport. some airports hold up your passenger ticket, as you go through. at other parpts, no. some airports take the change

out of your pocket, other airports go through- >> put your shoes on the belt, shoes in the bin. take the toiletries out. >> i think it's efficiencies they need to work on. >> and consistency from country to country. a lot of countries terrorists are traveling don't have these same standards. if you're flying from africa for middle east, you didn't go through this process somebody in helena, montana went through. >> i had one of those experiences a couple years ago. i discovered i had been carrying around a small but forbidden swiss army knife. i discovered it when i got to california. i put it in the backpack and said to meredith. i will run this as a test, see who picks it up. i went through reagan, the nation's capitol, didn't get picked up, europe, late flight out of paris, a lot of sleepy frenchmen hanging around, nothing will happen here. bingo, reached right in, find the swiss army knife, i said,

it's yours. the parry sans found it and no one here did. i must have gone through half a dozen airports. >> the french like taking swiss stuff. >> let's move to south korea and north korea and the escalating tension there. yesterday, we had ambassador holbrook on and he was sort of non-plussed about the uranium. now, we have a situation the white house is strongly condemning north korea after the country fired dozens of rounds of artillery to a south korean island on the disputed border. the south returned fire and dead and wounded and we have a situation. >> we do have a situation. my question is, where are the chinese in all of this? this is an opportunity for the united states, for the president and the chinese, and beijing to get together very quickly because we have shared interests in that part of the world. the chinese seem to be the only ones with some influence on the north koreans and say, let's

work this out, this called for high level diplomacy if not the president himself and secretary of state and national security advisor has to be on the phone to beijing, as i hope that they are, saying, you have to g get -- you have to hose down north korea at this point and get them back under control. i was watching ambassador holbrook yesterday. he was absolutely right, one of the most dangerous situations in the world and will continue to be and taken our eye off them because of what's going on in afghanistan and pakistan and other parts of the world. you have a nuclear armed rogue power, lunatic running a critically important peninsula, the northern part of it in korea, tucked up against china, within range of japan. these episodes keep coming and keep coming. we don't have anybody -- we do have a permanent assignment in terms of special representative to that area but it's not on the radar screen, in terms of the

general public. >> the security council is considering holding an emergency meeting, robert gibbs calling it belligerent action, jon meacham. the white house must be getting their thoughts together to figure out exactly what to say publicly about this. >> tom is right. the question is how much of a rational actor is north korea? >> not. >> we just don't know. to me, the question is, short of a nuclear strike outside its borders including the south, what's the worst case scenario here? do they have a plan or is this a show of strength so they regain a certain amount of face? to what extent is this kim jong il's son? we don't know inside, is he flexing muscle here? has nothing to do with him? until we know and get some sense what the agenda is, we will be working in the dark. >> is it because of china, tom, we seem to handle north korea so

delicately? in march, you had sinking of a south korean warship that killed 46 sailors and the response was frankly, pretty muted to that. >> it has something to do with that but measuring the threat to this country and our own national security. it is a very delicate operation going on there. the plan is they hope to squeeze down and squeeze down and can bring down this regime at some point. the fact it's been going as long as it has at such a kind of mad policy is hard to believe, people starving to death and out there by the millions in the town square, the little leader who wears high-heeled shoes and wants to watch "desperate housewives" when he goes back to the palace. >> that's a picture right there. >> guilding the lily. >> jack the ripper. >> we will continue our

conversation after the break. jon meacham, thank you for your time this morning. coming up, the "washington post," eugene robinson. first, we put the giving back to thanksgiving, by looking at what one organization is doing to feed those in need. radio host, bill aiyers is next. [trumpet playing "reveille" throughout] let's support the small business owners getting our economy booming with the first ever small business saturday. on november 27th, shop small. it's going to be huge. [trumpet playing "reveille" fades to silence]

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york city. here with us on "morning joe," radio talk show host of why hunger is here to talk about hungerathon 2010 where stations in the new york tri-state area unite to raise mope and fight hunger. bill, good to see you this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> tell us about the group for people who aren't familiar with it, how you started, why. >> we started in 1975, just talked about it. he died in 1981. people thought that's the end of the organization. we all said his family and i and a number of people said it's too important. we helped it going for so many

years. sirius satellite radio, we're on all over the country. we started it because of hunger in asia, africa and latin america. i had an idea of doing bangladesh for a region in africa. it never happened. harry and i realized even if we raised 1 million dollars that night it would have been a drop in the bucket so we made a commitment we would spend the rest of our lives fighting hunger and poverty. we didn't think it would be that important. after he died, i said to my wife, i think i need to do this. i was in broadcasting full time and i still do my radio show on plj but i've been work ever since on hunger and poverty. most has switched to hunger in america. we have a tremendous problem here. we have 50 million people who are what is called food insecure, which is a polite word for hunger. doesn't mean they are starving. it means they are skipping meals, feeding their kids and

not themselves. it means they are buying cheap food, which is not good for the diet. we have an epidemic of diabetes and obesity to go along with hunger and poverty. >> bill, what can we do in this country? we have food. >> yes we do. >> distribution to proper food to people who need food. what is wrong with the distribution chain? >> one of the problems is people don't have enough money right now. the government putting money into the snap program which replaced food stamps. it's an easy card, much, much better for people, no shame attached toyota. it also has eliminate add lot of fraud. there's 42 million people now who are getting snap. without that we would have massive hunger in this country. there are 8 million people who have only that for income, which is crazy in this country. we have a great recession, the worst since the great depression. we've never had this before, and it's really pretty startling.

>> there's been a terrible run on food chains. >> absolutely. >> in the midwest, small towns. there are supplemental food programs now going on in the schools which kids can sign up and take home a lunch, for example, that's below the radar in the great recession. that's something that has to be addressed as well. especially in a country that produces as much agriculture surplus as we do. >> harry used to say hunger is an obscenity but hunger in america is the ultimate obscenity. ing you're right we produce so much food. one thing we need to pass the child authorization bill, which the senate and house are working on right now that will bring $4.5 million for after school, lunch, summer meals. we made a decision as a country that we would provide free books for kids, because they need them to learn. we made a decision we would buy

free transportation because they need to get to school. we need to make a decision we have food for kids. kids don't learn when they are hungry. nutrition aids cognition. teachers will tell you when kids are hungry they act out in class. >> is part of the problem we go past kids in bus stops where kids are standing there with an orange drink and wing ding and think they are not hungry but they are. >> yes, they are. we need nutrition education. people aren't eating the right kind of food that's for sure. in many places they can't get it. we're working in the mississippi delta and southeastern arizona in places called food deserts. i'm sure you've heard that term. it's a place where you've got to go 30 or 40 miles to find a store. we're out there and we're organizing people to bring in more community gardens, backyard gardens, farmers markets, community supported agriculture, all that kind of thing. that's happening all over the country. there's a revolution.

>> some online action ads you'll have up here. what do you want to tell viewers? what's the one thing they can do to help out? >> hungerathon.org and make a donation. i don't know if you see them i'm wearing the shirts, i can hold them up for you. online auction items, springsteen, they can bid on those auction items going to hunger thon.org. called 1-800-546-4789, make a donation. no donation too small. this is the shirt, thanks to yoko ono. it's a wonderful shirt. you can see it. for $50 a t-shirt, 70 a sweatshirt and 20 a pin. all this is tax deductible. we're asking you one time, thanksgiving is the day to give thanks, make today the day to give. >> it's a good way to do good around thanksgiving. for more information visit

hunger thon.org. thanks very much. coming up next eugene robinson and the editor of talking points memo josh marshall next on "morning joe." during its first year, the humpback calf and its mother

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as the threat has evolved, our screening process has had to and has evolved. these are procedures that will continue to evolve.

look, the policies have to evolve. we have to continue to evolve. that will evolve. screening has to evolve. >> okay. we are evolving together. welcome back to "morning joe." it is the top of the hour, 8:00 on the east coast. mike barnicle still with us, tom brokaw at the table and joining the table editor and publisher of talkingpoints.com josh marshall and from washington pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. eugene, i'm going to read from your latest op-ed because it works perfectly with the sound bites we bumped in with. tsa outcry is a cry for profiling. you write this, if we only surge people who look like terrorists, al qaeda will send people who don't fit the profile. it's no accident that most of the september 11th, 2001, hijackers were from saudi arabia. at the it was easier for saudi nationals to get visas than it was for citizens are of other

terrorist countries. if they are smart enough to hid bombs in ink cartridges eventually they will find a suicide bomber that looks like you or me or granny. be patient with the tsa and have a happy thanksgiving. okay. it's a good message. it's a good message. is it fair to say some people don't like being groped and perhaps it wasn't rolled out too well. >> it wasn't rolled out too well. i'm glad this administration believes in evolution, according to robert gibbs, because there is some evolving to do with the policies. but you know, if you actually think it through, remember when the underwear bomber tried to strike last christmas. the hue and cry wasn't really for privacy, it was for, gee, if there are machines, if there's technology that might have detected the underwear bomb, why isn't it in the airports, why

haven't they rolled out the machines? so they rolled out the machines. they are doing what they were asked to do. but if people want to opt out of the machines, it defeats the purpose of having the machine if you let them then just kind of saunter through in a way that wouldn't detect the underwear bomb. so i was trying to figure out exactly what is tsa supposed to do other than the most kind of thorough search. it seems to me that's what our society has asked them to do. >> so much hue and cry about this but the truth is if you look at statistics, less than 2% of travelers will go through this. do you think this passes or does the tsa have to roll it back based on the outcry. >> it seems like they are starting to say they will roll it back to some extent. tsa is institutionally in an impossible position. americans want total safety in the air and they do not want to be felt up to get on the plane, both of which i understand, but

both of which are intention. going to eugene's point in the column about profiling, the thing we have to realize, profiling does work. people talk they don't have this problem in israel, the airport. the israelis do aggressive profiling. the problem is it's not compatible with our society. >> profiling has become a dirty wood but it's important to point out there's other ways of profiling, questioning people at the ticket counter. >> it's not like -- you're definitely going to have people who don't fit the molds. i'm not saying it's perfect and eugene has a good point. we need to confront to a certain degree it does work, it's just not compatible with society. >> that's absolutely right. that is what israelis do at the airport except they do profiling on top of an incredibly rigorous security. there are people in uniform with uzis walking around in the

airport all the time just kind of looking at people and trying to profile behavior. in a way, that is not -- that is not going to fit at the des moines airport or at metro airport in detroit. it's just not going to happen. but it's not that the israel's kind of let some people through and profile others, they search everybody. they are very tough on security. it's just that some people they select out for extra rigorous screening that almost amounts to full background checks. >> the process of evolving will be expedited if there is an event that we don't want to see happen. i'm not sure what else they are supposed to do except maybe he get some consistency into the process here. let's move onto the big story of the morning, which again is a reminder that the world is a very dangerous place. breaking news out of the korean

peninsula. the united nations security council says it could be holding an emergency meeting in the coming days after north korea fired artillery rounds onto a south korean island near their disputed border prompting the south to return fire. earlier today the white house strongly condemned the attack calling on the north to, quote, halt its belligerent actions. south korea says two marines have been killed and 17 others wounded. south korea's military now says it was conducting a test firing before today's exchange of fire but said it fired west not north. while there are indications the shelling appears to stop, officials tell news the incident for south korea to scramble their f 16 fighter jets south korean president pledge add stern response although he also called on officials to make sure, quote, the situation would not escalate. the incident comes amid increased tensions over north korea's claim it has a new uranium enrichment facility.

back in march seoul blamed a torpedo for killing a warship and killing 46 sailors. tom brokaw, here we are. >> we just had jim miklaszewski saying a lot we get about king jong-il comes from cnn or watching him come to a military parade. i guess he's still alive. we're still in the dark about north korea. >> it reminds me about how much we were in the dark about iraq. it was so opaque for reasons so not entirely clear to me because people were going in and out of there. the president as he acknowledged in his book "decision points" was stunned, president clinton thought there were weapons of mass destruction, weapons investigators thought there were weapons of mass destruction. iraq was porous in terms of north korea in terms of what you could see and where you could go and the kinds of relationships

we had with people coming in and out of there including iraquis. this is a regime that's just hard to describe. it goes beyond rogue, obviously. we never know -- you can't track him. i suppose there's psychological profiles. i'd hate to see that one. here is a guy wandering, like i said earlier, in high heels looking at american television programs "desperate housewives." turns out millions of people in the street are starving to death. this is a perfect example of where great powers have to get together. we saw last week one more demonstration of the partisanship that enters almost everything these days. i do think that the president and republican leadership on the hill have to get together on s.t.a.r.t. in some fashion. that becomes a piece of what we're trying to do globally about nuclear weapons and the use of them. i think it's an honorable

objective to have for any administration, republican or democratic alike, to say that we want to rid the world of nuclear weapons that should be a goal of beijing and the united states, soviet union, what used to be the soviet union. russia, that reflects my age, i guess, but even israel. the other nuclear powers. we've got to get rid of them. because it only takes one lunatic to hit the button, then we're in a world of trouble. >> although it won't be, but don't you think it ought to be sort of a warning sign or heads up to the american people who report on these polls how people feel about the tsa at airports when the flip side is we have a deranged isolated leader of a nuclear country that we know little about that could start like this. let's worry about the big things.

>> thank you. eugene. >> it's amazing and ought to put things in perspective. the really dangerous thing about this korean situation right now at this moment is were there civilian casualties on the island as well and how will the south korean people react if, in fact, there were casualties beyond the military casualties, which you might say they would take in stride. does there have to be some reaction. i think the real trip wire is you don't even have to get to the horrifying, unthinkable prospect of a nuclear strike. the north koreans have enough conventional weaponry lined up along the demilitarized zone to rain devastation on seoul and, of course, the south koreans have the same to rain similar devastation on the north. this could get really ugly and

disastrous even without getting to the nuclear point, which is just, you know, unthinkable. but what is unthinkable when you talk about north korea. this is a very bad situation. >> tom pointed in our last hour to the other critical element of the story, which is china, to be a test of the relationship with that country, can we get china to lean in on north korea. >> this is where all of these discussions even about international economics and the balance of trade with china coming into play. the fact that there's so many areas in which we don't have as much leverage as we used to with china, this is where it comes into play. we're dealing with china much more as equals than we were five or ten years ago. >> my point about china is it is a modern economic miracle, there's no question about that. they spread themselves around the world now. they have to step up their roles as global citizens. this is the perfect example of a time they could do that and show

real leadership, because they are the ones that can bring pressure to bear on the regime in north korea in a variety of ways. it will be interesting to see before the day is out what the chinese foreign ministry, what his response is to this. >> one of the things that's most unnerve about north korea is it's true china has a prepond rant influence, it's true their influence is not total. >> it's spotty. >> exactly. the north koreans are on a variety of different levels playing by a different set of rules that is not really the same one most of the international community has been working on in the last 20, 30 years. there was an incident 25 years ago where they tried to blow up most of the south korean cabinet maybe in thailand or something. there's incidents like this that come up now and again. they are willing to resort to a

broader pallet of possible actions than other countries are. it does show it's a problem for president clinton, president bush and now president obama. >> we're getting word japan speaking out and calling north korea's actions unforgivable. we'll be hearing from more countries as this develops. eugene you wanted to make a point. >> just a point, let's keep in mind china has a powerful self-interest in the border with north korea. china wants, at all costs, to avoid some sort of sudden collapse of the north korea regime, which would send floods of north korean refugees into china and create a kind of chaos that the chinese find unacceptab unacceptable. so whatever they do, they will calibrate it along the lines of self-interest. obviously not in china's

self-interest for there to be some sort of big conflict that might precipitate that sort of collapse or create chaos in north korea. and so my guess is that the chinese will, to the extent they have influence, my guess is they will probably try to exert it to chill out mr. il. >> you were talking about how they have their own rules. what rules are there? what can we say has been positive? >> not much. going to tom's point, it's the story of the decade really, this whole flood of capital going into china. it is all predicated on people around the world, bankers, heads of state believing that china is a predictable actor on the world stage. so it goes directly to their economic interest as well. it's a very good point. they have -- china's interest in stabilizing a situation like

this goes far beyond sort of loose ideas about international stewardship. it has very direct economic implications for their future. >> it seems, though, that we here in the united states, our leadership, we know more about the back side of the moon than we do about north korea. does the chinese know more? >> my understanding is they know more but not like they are looking at their hand of cards from behind. you know, it's a very closed society. they have obviously a long half century relationship with that government. but my understanding is their knowledge is still very imperfect, although significantly better than others. >> until you get into his mind, you really can't know, because that's the stuff -- that's the north korean government, the culture. it's what the -- how unpredictable that is and frankly how psychotic it is. until you know that, and it's

impenetrable at this point. >> all right. that's a little perspective given the conversation we started with about patdowns and now to this breaking news overnight, which is serious stuff that will continue throughout the day as countries chime in with their opinions on what has happened between north and south korea. >> josh runs talking points memo, one of the most influential sites out there. what's the big story for you all today, politics. >> obviously this korea story is going to be big. we're stell looking at the house getting settled, congress getting settled up on capitol hill and looking at a number of stories trying to look forward to the presidential race in 2012. politics never stops. >> can i ask you something quickly, what do you think the impact will be on the debate in rational terms of the deficit commission when it makes its report in december? >> you know, i don't have a lot

of optimism that both sides are going to join the debate in a way that's going to yield a lot in 2011. pessimistically i suspect that we're going to have to get further down the line until a sense of crisis is big enough for people to act. >> josh, do you think we'll ever find out how tom brokaw knows kim jong-il walks around in high heels? >> no comment. >> eugene, thank you as well. coming up, two political polls conducted over the phone give republicans an unexpected advantage. details from an interesting new study next in the politico "playboy." next, inside the annual list of women who made history, headlines, comedy and controversy this year. that's coming up. but first here is bill karins with a quick check on the forecast. >> good morning, everyone. we're into that period of very busy travel. tuesday, wednesday, everyone

getting to their destination. thankfully east coast looks good, west coast not the same. we are watching all the airports doing well this morning, a mild day today from boston down the coast all the way to florida. enjoy it while it's last. this is probably the warmest day we'll have for a long time. chance of rain showers but not heavy rain. you want horrible weather conditions, head out weather. a huge storm system moving through, dangerous travel on interstate 80, california to nevada. your national forecast shows cold air covering much of the western half of the country. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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>> okay. calm down. calm down. it's not what you think. it's not what you think. i wanted to give everyone one of these to you, but vw said no. they said, sorry, oprah, we cannot give everybody this beetle. i tried. but they said, maybe we can do one better, how about if we get

each one in your audience the brand-new totally redesigned 2012 volkswagen beetle. >> it exploded from there. >> i like when she reacts to the audience. we should put that up again. >> who said there's no such thing as a free lunch. >> seriously. >> the things she does to those people. king jong-il has less control over people. >> i'm concerned he might have an eye patch on. let's see how he's doing. no, just the nose. >> mike, there's -- >> mike, there's genuine concern out there. >> in inquiring minds want to know. >> genuine concern out there in the e-mails. do you want to come forward and tell us what happened there, sir? >> what gives? >> i would say, luckily, i don't get by on my looks.

>> what happened to your nose? >> you look like you're answering a casting call for hannibal lecter, mike. >> yesterday we had the annual harris, allen deer hunting trip. if you're going to have a deer hunting accident better to be hit by a recoiling scope than be hit by his excellent aim. >> i hate it when that happens. that's actually very painful. >> dick cheney may have been hunting with you. >> that's bad. did you break it? >> i didn't. i needed stitches. two and a half hours in the urgent care, so i'm glad it wasn't urgent. >> glad you're okay. >> thank you. >> political reporting at david axelrod's departure might be happening a little earlier than we thought it would. tell us why. >> a tale of two davids. obama's 2.0 getting a kickoff,

david plouffe, manager from 2008, now best selling author, coming in early january months before people thought he would. he'll be in the west wing to shadow david axelrod. he'll be getting his desk, his senior adviser title. axelrod we're told will be leaving after the state of the union address, january, early february, back to chicago, get a little r and r, then in the spring the president's re-election will kick off full speed. a big reason it's held in chicago is because as you know the axelrod family stayed there and david wants to work out of there as the chief strategist. >> axelrod absolutely in dispensable for the president. >> absolutely in dispensable for the president and home sick for his family and hometown of chicago. let me ask you on another personal issue, personnel issue. in the white house, the number one issue in this country days the economy. why is it seemingly taking so long to name a successor to

larry summers? >> this seems like a layup to bring in the ceo, put a ceo in the cabinet, put a ceo in the west wing. and, in fact, rahm emanuel wanted to name a ceo going out the door, incoming chief of staff said, no, we're tired of doing things by the seat of the pants. we're going to have the process, do this in an organized way. see whose out there. we need someone who can fix the economy rather than a talking point about a particular demographic. the white house is going other days to reach out to business. valerie jarrett, "morning joe" viewer, tells us they are moving from lunches with ceos to working sessions. so the president is trying to get more detailed input from business. >> let's hope so. mike, you guys are talking about a really interesting study from pugh this morning about phone

polling. a lot of people targeting only people with land lines. i don't have a land line, most of my friends don't have land lines. what about the accuracy of the polls. >> you should ask if a poll includes cell phones. if it doesn't it probably excuse republican. this pew study finds polls that include cell phones were more democratic, got in more younger people. the best polls account for that. all polls should and we should watch for it. >> you say in the fall of 2008, president obama's lead was smaller over john mccain in polls that were land line driven. >> people thought that senator mccain had a chance at the end were probably watching a poll that didn't include cell phones. >> mike allen, take care of that nose. >> thank you. happy turkey. >> that's terribly serious. >> get better. we love you. business before the bell next. this new jetta is awesome. yeah, right now during sign then drive, you can take home a volkswagen for just your signature.

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a little after 8:30 in the morning in new york city. a look at new jersey. let's get a check with erin burnett. live at the new york stock exchange. >> good to see you guys. lots to talk about. it's going to be a very grim open. a lot of the politics you've

been talking about primarily what's happening in korea, you'd think the markets would be used to this. i don't want to sound sanguine here but the truth is when it happened a few months ago when you had the issue with the ship, the markets went down and immediately popped back up. that's what you've seen around the world. today on worries about south korea at least on the open we're going to open down quite significantly here. who knows whether that will hold. the other headlines of the day include the read of gdp here. we're looking at preliminary numbers and i'm reading them off here at 2.5%. that came in just slidely ahead of anticipation. that is let's just call it an in line number. 2.5% is not great, but not terrible. in this number you still have a significant amount of government stimulus. so if you were to take that away, you would start to see numbers go even lower, by the way start to see measurable job creation, a lot of economists think you need gdp at 3 to 3.5%.

we're not at a number that would indicate significant job growth that outpaces population growth of this country. still, though, that is an in line number. i've got two good news headlines for you today. one claim from hp. i don't know if you remember a couple of weeks ago cisco came out with earnings, the company that i would describe makes the internet work. it's a major customer. turns out with cuts in government spending it really hit cisco everyone thought we would hear this from hp but that's not what we're hearing. in fact the company strengthened its forecast on strength of consumer and government demand. i wouldn't say hit it out of the park sort of thing but takes away some worries. final good headlines today, sorry, a lot today, is a drug from gilead. this is interesting all together. it's hiv drug. apparently in tests it has cut the risk of hiv infection in gay men by about 44% people who take it faithfully up to 73%. so a pretty stunning set of

numbers. but on the political side the whole debate on health care, here is the really amazing thing. the pill could cost between $5,000 and $14,000 a year. it's a very, very high number. pales in comparison to what cancer drugs can cost in the united states. in poor countries where they give these drugs away or automatically start doing generic versions of them, it's only going to cost $0.39 a day. so the question here is you've got to think about the whole health care debate in light of the positive externalality america provides the rest of the world. we pay these sky high prices, which in turn enable companies to invest in research and development and the rest of the world gets to free load. i'm not saying a bad thing or good thing but it's an important question. when we talk about cutting health care costs in america, someone has to pay for all the innovation, right? >> that's a big issue mpl the

pharmaceutical business is cast as the villain but it really is for the world. the british national health care system depends on innovation out of the united states to say nothing of emerging and developing countries and the drugs that come out of this. i'm not enough of authority to know how much air there is in the profit of pharmaceutical countries. what they pour back into r&d pays off not only for us but people around the world. >> given the state of chaos with regard to health care legislation in the country and given the state of fact with regard to our economy, you've got to wonder how long can we continue doing this footing the bill for -- >> everybody else. because whatever country you're talking about, they rely on the big performers here, whether it's pfizer, lilly, johnson & johnson which does more than medical systems and they will

continue to say we have to charge that much because we pour so much back into our research. >> erin burnett, thanks so much. great stuff. appreciate it. >> see you guys. >> coming up next, more magazines top noisemakers. editor jane seymour takes us inside the list. next. [ wind howling ] [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now the editor in chief of more magazine leslie jane seymour, just a few of the top noisemakers for 2010. welcome back to the show. good to have you. what is a noisemaker, what

qualifies? >> noisemaker, a woman who doesn't shut up and somehow goes out there and raises an issue important to us. for good or bad, we don't always agree with how we do it. women have hard time speaking up sometimes and take a back seat. these women don't. >> okay. wild guess at who is the top of the list. anyone want to take a guess at the table, top of the list. >> i don't think it's the head of the convention. >> no. >> sarah palin. >> there you go. what a good guesser, you get an a. yes, sarah palin, absolutely for all the great things she did this year, from, you know, resigning her office to putting her weight behind the 26 people in the primaries and actually having them win to picking up the term mama grizzly. we know refudiate was picked up by the oxford dictionary as word of the year. >> does she qualify as good

noise or bad noise. >> we're not qualifying good or bad. any way she raised women's voices. men speak all the time, some are good, some are bad. we're not going to judge. >> who else is on your list? >> well, second down. >> jan brewer. >> what her whole point is while we don't necessary agree with what she did, but what she did overall was she raised anti-immigration to a national discussion. and of course she was sued by the obama administration. part of it is unconstitutional, but you've got five other states that went for the same kind of legislation and 17 more that are considering it. so she has raised the issue out there. >> a noisemaker maybe by mistake. shirley sherrod for talking about the media's rush to judgment. it's something that goes on in the internet all the time now. there's a clip taken out of a speech she was giving that was actually about racial harmony. it went out, got all over fox

news. everybody was talking about it. she got fired from her job. she was trying to tell people they needed to look at the whole speech. they didn't. when they did, of course they found out she was telling the truth and they tried to hire her. president obama called her and it was too late. she said, no, i don't want that job back. >> it wasn't media rush to judgment but white house rush to judgment. >> everybody. >> i like this, kathryn bigelow. >> 82 years at the oscars without a woman winning best director, and they won with this small movie, ""hurt locker"" against her ex-husband, who apparently is still a friend, james cameron, who was doing "avatar" with millions and millions of dollars put behind him. so this is great. >> that was a great moment at the oscars, beating the ex-husband. >> that was the second part of it. winning was first and beating the ex-husband next. >> what a year for betty white.

>> the oldest "saturday night live" guest ever, 88 years old. >> wow, really? >> people are saying what a great comeback. she really isn't having a comeback. she said to us i've been around this whole time. i haven't gone anywhere. you guys have just noticed us. she has a pin-up calendar and two-part book deal and "hot in cleveland." >> who was on the panel to pick these people? >> this is us, editorial panel, just like what you guys do. we get to decide. these are women who we feel are making a difference, raising the volume of different conversations out there. again, as you know, women tend to hide in the background and don't speak up enough. >> i don't agree with that? >> no, you don't? >> no, i don't. i'll tell you why. >> okay. >> nancy brinker and komen race for the cure. there has never been a movement i've been witness to that took hold like it did this year. you had the toughes guys in the nfl wearing pink booties, a sign

of solidarity with her. it's phenomenal, she's been at it for a while but went to criminal mass. >> nancy is a steel magnolia. there are some steel magnolias out there. i love nancy. i've run around the pyramids in egypt with her. she's a tough nut. not everyone is like that. >> i've thought about social movements that had a big impact on life in america in the last 20 years or so. one of the most underrated in my judgment are mothers against drunk driving. they changed the culture in this country profoundly. cut way down on alcohol-related crashes and deaths. they changed the way police enforce dwis. you don't have anything comparable to race for the car. prostrate cancer it's less than the sum of its part.

>> i would say in terms of quantity i agree with you totally. we'll have to make you one of our noisemakers for women. >> there you go. >> i live in a family of all women, and they are all -- before sarah palin talked about mama grizzlies, i was, you know, living with -- >> with the mama grizzlies. >> the grizzlies are not at the top of the food chain, wolves are. i lived with a family of mama wolves. >> you've been well trained. we love you. >> there were people who roamed the landscape and made a big impact on it, all the women in my family. so it's been one of the most instructive experiences of my life. i grew up in a family of one mother and four guys. the mother more than held her own. this family with a strong wife and three exceptionally strong daughters. >> we're bringing you on. he's at the top of the list, emeritus. >> special dispensation for tom brokaw. >> you can catch the full list

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now staff writer for the new yorker john cassidy.

in the new issue john asks the question, what good is wall street? he writes think of the profits used by businesses operating in the u.s. as a cake. 25 years ago the slice taken by financial firms was about a seventh of the whole. last year it was more than a quarter. in other words, during a period in which american companies created iphones, home depot and lipitor, the best place to work has been in an industry that does not design, build or sell a single tangible thing. john, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for inviting me. >> let's put the question to you, what good is wall street? >> not as good as it should be, to summarize the words. the point is finance is supposed to serve the rest of the economy. it exists to raise money for companies and direct people's savings. the last 20 or 30 years, finance has become a profit center in itself and now takes up to a third of the profits in the entire economy. if you think about it, a

financier is supposed to be an agent, writer, literary agent, 10, 15% of my earnings. that sounds reasonable. have to give him 30, 35%, i think he's taking a little bit much. >> so if it doesn't do good, why do we invest so much taxpayer money a couple of years ago to save companies. >> obviously it does good. i'm not saying we can get rid of banks or investment banks. the question is we've spent hundreds of billions bailing these guys out. i don't think we had choice. the economy does depend on the financial system. now we've spent all that money i think it's time to ask a basic question, what should these guys be doing? are they doing enough to justify resources they get from the state and other businesses. >> and in 10 years the american economy went from having 10% of the american economy was in the financial services area to now 40%. >> in terms of profits it got up to 40% in 2007 and 10, 15 years it was like 15%. and the number of people in the

industry just keeps growing every year. it's now up to 8 million, i think. >> isn't part of the problem, and i think the regulators were absolutely asleep at the switch during the period from 2000 to 2008 when it all began to come down, isn't part of the problem with electronic trading that is going on and the high level of intelligence that comes with the industry, they can in vent instruments faster than people can keep track of them. >> that's true. it's very tough if you're a regulator, you think everything came crashing down because all these guys were trading in microseconds. the regulators didn't know what was going on. you can set rules. there's so much talent in this industry. some of the smartest aren't going to nasa, silicon valley, they are going to wall street. they don't really create anything of tangible value there. >> could part of the problem also be that these young people so smart, so creative going in with other people smart and creative, could part of the problem be that there is so much

confusion among legislators and among the general public between what is like a regular bank and a hedge fund where they make nothing other than money and confuse the two. >> one of the things that's happened in the last 10 or 15 years, some of the banks have turned into hedge funds, especially the big investment banks, goldman sachs, morgan stanley. they make 60% trading. that's not raising money for companies, that's betting their own money. you're right, they have some of the smartest people in the country, very similar to the people going to hedge funds. so some extent financial institutions are playing against each other. they are not there to serve the ibms, exxons, trying to find the next exxon, they are betting against each other. >> what do we do like 10, 15 years ago where they invest in factories and jobs. >> that's the question. you have to try to encourage the

long-term view. they think in terms of can they make money today, tomorrow. on wall street a month is a long-term perspective. one idea that's being put out, although not politically popular, maybe putting a small tax on short-term trades. if you trade 10,000 times a day, you pay half a cent per trade. it's nothing for a regular guy that doesn't trade very often but for those that turn it over and over, it's a disincentive. >> the idea of bonuses. based on the money goldman sachs makes or jpmorgan makes, are those bonuses justified in the context of how much money the company is making. >> sure if you look at it on a private base. goldman sachs is making $20 billion a year and sharing half their revenue with their employees so they are handing out $15, $20 billion a year in revenue. >> what's wrong with that to get bonuses if they are making the money. >> there's a couple of things wrong wit. some of the money they are

making is ultimately dependent on the taxpayer guarantee. we saw that in 2008. they take big risks. they get the upside if it goes well. if they are going to go broke, the taxpayer steps in and rescues them. >> and they still pay themselves a bonus. >> right. the second issue, some of the things they are doing, they are providing services to their clients but a lot isn't good for the country as a whole. goldman is helping john paulson a hedge fund manager shore up the subprime market. it's helping hedge fund managers not the guy on the street. >> fascinating piece. john cassidy, thanks for being here. what's good for wall street, the new issue of the new yorker. we should mention john's book, how markets fail, the logic of economic calamities is out next in paper back. up next, what have we learned today? . this new jetta is awesome.

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all right. time now to talk about what we learned today. i learned that joe is back tomorrow and i couldn't be more glad. tom, what did you learn? >> i learned morning, noon, and night sarah palin will get attention somewhere. here we were on today and there was very little mention of sarah palin until