extremes, which seem to be a very big deal for folks not from texas. it's good to remember that the same state that produced dick armey and rick perry also produced molly evans and jim high tower. things can swing back and forth. >> proud winner of the molly ivans with award, glad you brought her up, and i wish you were in charge and with us to this day. great thanks for your time tonight. that's december 15th, nine days since the republicans got the deal for the taxes for the rich. mr. boehner, where are the jobs? i'm keith olbermann. good night and good luck. it's my party and i'll cry if i want to. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris

matthews in washington. leading off tonight, one down, one to go. the senate has just passed the tax bill that angered so many on the far left and the far right, a number of progressives are still promising to fight it in the house but our latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows americans left, right and center approve of the bill, which raises two questions. why is the minority making all the noise and why is the majority staying silent? two great questions. and speaking of today's poll, it has some surprisingly good news for president obama. contrary to the buzz, voters have not given up on the president. that includes independent voters. truly alarming, by the way, in terms of numbers, are the latest test scores that show american schoolchildren falling behind further and further the rest of the world. is it because unions keep us from firing bad teachers or what? former washington, d.c., schools chancellor michelle rhee joins us tonight. and it is my party and i'll cry if i want to by now, you have

probably seen tape of john boehner becoming vividly emotional a number of times on "60 minutes" there he is. nothing wrong with that of course, would the public be as forgiving if say, speaker nancy pelosi were in tears like that? what would the right say then? finally, when it comes to eliminating earmarks, texas republican senator john cornyn is all hat, as they say in texas, and no cattle. he likes the idea of getting rid of earmarks but also likes the reality of having them. let's begin with the senate passing the tax cut deal. senator dick durbin of i will sill the democratic whip. senator, thanks for joining us. you have joined the great majority of senators from both parties. how do you distinguish between the high noise level on network television like this on msnbc and elsewhere, among the net roots, among progressives generally, the loud angry noise against this deal, this compromise, and yet when we look at the polling right now, overwhelming support for this

deal among democrats? >> i think people want us to move forward. that might have been the election's -- the clearest message coming out of it and they want us to be constructive and that means that we have to give. the democrats have to give on some of their ideas, republicans on theirs. that's how we are going to solve the problems facing this country. >> let's take a look at these numbers, here they are, the brand new nbc/"wall street journal" poll out tonight, 59% of the country likes the deal we have been talking about for weeks now, 36% disapprove, 61 say, 61% it is a fair compromise, just 23% think that obama gave up too much. 10% say the republicans gave up. so there is a little bit of tilt there, to say the least. what do you think of that tilt, among the people who don't like the deal it is the left that doesn't like it a lot more than the right who seems to relatively like it. >> so let's try this question. ask the american people, would you be in favor of tax cuts for wealthy people if you knew that it added $70 billion to the deficit, money we are going to have to borrow from china? chris, you and i know what the answer to that question the way you ask the question has to a lot to do with the results. >> yeah, but let me ask you this. back to my question.

you're a political figure, you are the leader of the senate, why is all the noise at the polls and maybe a bigger question, why is there no sound coming from between the 40 yard lines? why do we never hear from people who are middle of the road democrats, middle of the road republicans? >> most of them are not watching political shows. most of them are worried about the basics of life, you know? the bottom line is the people who really care, really get intense tune into their favorite cable channel and one of them happens to be chris matthews. >> well, i don't mind that let's take a look anyway. your thoughts about the house, think we will get a big conference flip flap or flap over there, you expect this to go down through christmas or expect to see your colleagues on the other side of the hill backing this eventually? >> well, i can just say this, it's heartfelt the opposition to the bill among the liberal members of the house democratic caucus is heart felt and they

deserve their day to argue their point. they may prevail. my guess is looking at the vote in the senate, 81-19, across the political spectrum, it is like lit version of the bill that we enacted is going to pass in the house of representatives. we are going to see it finalized some time next week. >> thank you so much for joining us. congratulations, by the way, on getting it done here in the senate. thank you, senator durbin. let's go now to democratic congressman brad sherman of southern california. congressman sherman, we haven't had you on in a while. where are you, if you had to vote right now, on this deal? >> well, i hope we -- >> yea or nay? >> i would vote yes because if we don't pass a bill this year, there will be a worse bill passed next year. >> okay, answer my question, i know is a media question, i'm not media, i'm with msnbc, i know the point of view of my colleagues, i hear -- i share most of it. here's my question, why is there so much anger and noise in the media among the net roots, among people, self-described progressives, yet we look at this poll data tonight, overwhelming support among

democrats, by the way, support in other polls the last couple of days for this measure this compromise? >> well, i think there are a lot of democrats who respect the president and when he put his imprimatur on this deal, 30, 40% of the democrats who might oppose it in terms of deal are going to vote for it when they hear this is obama's position. >> interesting. >> i think once the president announced this was his position it both created more support for the deal among democrats and made it impossible for us to negotiate a better deal with the republicans. >> you have been out campaigning, got re-elected overwhelmingly, let me ask you this 63%, 65% of the vote this time. >> mm-hmm. >> why does the public hate congress yet re-elect most members of congress? >> i mean -- >> look at this poll, 83% don't like congress. >> first of all, thank god i run against an opponent instead of just the concept of couldn't we do better? when people say they don't like

congress it's mythical image they have of what congress ought to be, that they compare us to. second, a lot of people like their individual member of congress because they know us. finally, we reflect the views. if you ask people in the adjoining district whether they like me, they would say no. so it could be when you ask people in my district do you like congress, they are thinking of the other guy. >> congressman, i was speaking to a smart politician, getting a smart political answer. here is better, tougher question. i know nancy pelosi, you know her, you know her as an inside political player, i know her as an outside person in the media. i like her. when i'm with her, i think she is a really nice person. i can't understand these -- maybe i can, but i want you to voice it, why is there a disconnect between the nancy pelosi you and i know in a strong political player, grew up in a political family who is a real pro and this nasty imagery that goes on about her that you see and i think reflected in this poll number, 83% against the congress? >> i think even if nancy pelosi wasn't in congress, when you've got a 9.8% unemployment rate and you've got congress is a place

where you watch sausage being made, i think you would get same results. i don't hold her responsible for that i think that the right has spent hundreds of millions of dollars vilifying pelosi across in commercials across the country and i think that's taken its toll. >> here is president obama today speaking before the senate votes. i want your reaction to what he says, congressman. here we go congressman sherman. let's listen to the president. >> i am absolutely convinced that this tax cut plan, while not perfect, will help grow our economy and create jobs in the private sector. i know there are different aspects of this plan to which members of congress on both sides of the aisle object. that's the nature of compromise, but we worked hard to negotiate an agreement that's win for

middle class families and a win for our economy and we can't afford to let it fall victim to either delay or defeat. so, i urge members of congress to pass these tax cuts as swiftly as possible. >> what's the story in your state? jerry brown won, barbara boxer won, a woman of the progressive side. she is no middle of the roader. you all want and i think that every democratic member of congress got re-elected why is it -- we call it the left coast, maybe i'm answering my question, why is california so solidly democrat, even in a brutal political year? >> i would like to think it is because we are a little bit smarter than the average person in the country but realistically, california is a democratic state and we looked at the situation, i think reached the right conclusion. also, california is socially more liberal than the average person in the country. >> that's true, thank you so much, u.s. congressman brad sherman. said he will vote for the bill if he has today but will change if he wants. we have the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll and president obama in a lot

better shape. wait until you see this. when the public talks about this guy, he is in very good shape given the fact we have almost a 10% unemployment rate in the country and he is running about 50%. let's try to figure that one out with chuck todd. you are watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] is your current denture cleanser missing something? now you get a cleanser with scope freshness. ♪ new fixodent plus scope ingredients. ♪ cleans...kills germs that cause denture odors... and provides your dentures with the freshness of scope. ♪ new fixodent cleanser plus scope ingredients.

well, sarah palin, the former governor of alaska, says that washington elites don't like her and guess what she is right. a new politico survey put out just today says that 11% of the elites in d.c. say she is qualified to be president. 11%. she can actually see 11% from alaska. 86%, a lot easier to see, say she is not qualified. get this, while 15% of washington elites in the survey say palin is a breath of fresh air, 79% find she is a negative influence in national politics. don't come to washington, governor. we will be right back. are you a senior concerned about financial independence?

welcome back to "hardball." the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll we do them together with "wall street journal," out tonight shows us what voters are thinking about the tax compromise we have been debating here and what the voters think of president obama. fascinating numbers, actually. here to run through the numbers, of course, chief white house correspondent, political director of msnbc, chuck todd. who tells it down the lining. here is president obama's approval rating in the poll, 45 to 48%. what do you make of that? i'm amazed he is hanging up there given the 10% unemployment rate. >> and not only that but look at it in a one-year long, one year ago, 47/46, it has to be budged. he has -- and both of our pollsters say there is a resilience, the part is he has a very solid base but he is still a float and he took a horrible,

horrible year. when you really think about it step back, got shellacked at the polls. all of these things, he should be in worse shape and he is not. his base is just very strong. young voters. it is -- excuse me, younger americans, african-americans, it is hispanics and core liberal democrats but that base has not abandoned him. >> why do we hear a differential on television? i don't think anything is phony on this network or anywhere else, you hear voices from real members of congress angry about these guys. >> ways you look at our poll where you see a piece of the liberal base unhappy with him on policy stuff and comes through on characteristic questions we ask but you see them, quote, come home when you ask about obama as president. >> people asked about their feelings, interesting way to ask it feelings toward president obama, only uptakes to 48-38. but there's a big differential.

look at this only 38, not sure it is going to show in later numbers that people decided against this guy. i think a lot of people are in limbo about him now because of the bad economy. >> that's right. you have -- just think about what the last year was. the only issue fight he chose to have was health care. every other issue he has had to deal with whether the oil spill or the multiple phase of the economy are things that were dropped into his lap. afghanistan was another one. dropped into his lap. all of these things -- you do sense from the public and throughout this whole poll, you see it, we don't know what kind of president this guy is. >> here we go to make this point, i love this, my favorite question answered today, when asked to judge whether president obama will be, i love that phrase, will be a successful president, 42% say they aren't ready to say. now, usually somebody says undecided, i say gimme a break. but i empathize with those people, because that is a fair, very fair assessment. >> you know, we asked these, do these 16 characteristic tests, okay, on the president, some are personal and some professional. overall, he did much better on the personal we see it here, much better.

>> you know how i looked at that michelle numbers sky high and the fact it is a family they like. >> a year ago, asked the same question, 40 said they were not ready to judge a year later, after he gets health care passed, after he has to deal with the crisis -- >> explain. >> -- of the oil spill. i think it is nothing but crisis, nothing but reaction. they don't know and kind of curious, how is this guy going to handle the new congress? he has -- this is opportunity for him. that's the upside. the downside is that it is also -- >> six months from now, all right compromise he is making on taxes and unemployment comp be seen as good? here he is. support for the tax bill across-the-board 54% of dems support it, as do 60% of independents, 68% of republicans, republicans a lot more randy about this than democrats. they love this thing. tax cuts for the rich and everything else. >> the deal did seem to be more of -- >> they jammed them. objective fact. >> the fact is democrats read that and the republicans read that. >> somebody saying before the show tonight, one reason why democrats don't like this bill

is not because the essence of it which gives them a cut for payroll tax, a lot of thing these do like is the way they were jammed and held up by the other side. >> they feel like they lost it. >> look at this one, how the two parties were doing, democrats want their house and senate leadership to compromise or stand firm this is generally speaking, 63% say compromise. again, a discordance with cable television -- >> that's right. >> the net roots. >> among republicans, it is a little bit lower, a majority of republicans want republicans to compromise to stick to their position but it is more narrow. it's a nature of the -- the democratic majority what ever you want to call it here, this democratic grouping here has always been this way, always been more leaning toward compromise generally. >> you know what -- >> it is different from -- >> i have to give you history, when i worked for the speaker of the house, tip o'neill, 90% of what he said or i wouldn't be working with him had, go into the whip meetings, thursday morning, glazed donuts and could have fair, scene in the cowboy movies, indians about to attack,

they were the indians, war whooping, yelling, screw the other guy, there is something about certain personalities that are always -- i don't think it is always the left wing, just some guys were always like that all the time and they loved being in leadership meetings get own the floor and everybody when we gonna vote? when are we going to get out of here? >> want to go home. >> let's go to this other question, 37% of those polled have a 41% view negative, 37% positive. that's not so hot. so basically that is just sort of mediocre. it is. you need to point out for the republicans, the first time in our poll in five years -- >> they are up one. >> they are up -- >> one. >> a net positive. that does say. >> swept it by 60-some seats. >> this is the honeymoon. the question is can they hold that at all? >> if you asked that question

right after the election, the democrats were -- keith and i and rachel all covering it that night, wipeout by the republicans, you would say these guys are popular. they are not quite popular, the democrats are not popular, people are looking for an alternative. they haven't fallen in love with the new guys. >> not yet, that's right. it's up to them to figure it out. >> everybody talks about sarah palin, impressed by the relentless negativity toward her, here is 50%, haven't seen 50%, 50% don't like her. 28%. >> the way we ask this number, much harder to get a 50% negative rating or 50% positive rating, the nature of how we asked the question. to score 50 on either side of this is saying something. >> she's on fox television, on tlc, on positive venue she is out shooting -- >> her own, chris. it was 40 a year ago. she has been a net negative since she has gone on the scene. >> what is she doing wrong? >> she is sitting at 50. >> why don't people like her? all she does positive pr. . >> it's not clear that she's talking to the middle. talking to -- >> going to robin roberts friday

morning on "gma," another big interview -- >> all the other shows, right now, she is only talking to fox viewers, only talking to the conservative base. >> talked to barbara walters, robin roberts. >> only been recent. only been recent. >> the house of representatives just passed, by the way, a repeal of don't ask, don't tell. the big fight will be the senate, that ends the bans on gay people, men and women openly admitting their orientation as they serve our country, a position, i, of course, support it goes to the senate and faces an uncertain future. i don't know why, chuck. why is the senate fighting this, history is moving in this direction. the public is 70% for this thing. >> i don't know that the senate is going to fight it as hard as a standalone. >> the votes? what do they get out of opposing it? >> before it was lumped into the whole defense authorization. i think we will really see where these guys are on individual votes. >> people who oppose open service die off, to be blunt about it very of old people, very cranky and angry with new

thing? >> i think what is amazing about this issue is how behind -- when we have made big social change in government, whether it was integration, interracial marriage, down the line. >> those feuds are dying. >> my point is public opinion was still very negative toward that change. here is a case with don't ask, don't tell, where you have a majority of the country wanting it repealed, a majority of the country. that's what's been odd about this taking so long. by the way, if this fails in the senate, the pressure is going to be on the president to do an executive order because the military wants an orderly way to do. this they don't want the courts -- >> nonsense. my dad served in the navy in world war ii a lot of gay guys in the military, it was part of life, celebrating it, it is a fact. >> they have avoided having to deal with the with executive order aspect of this because they wanted congress to do it for them. >> they've got to do it that way. the congress created the problem. >> no choice if they don't do it in the senate. >> i want it done by legislation permanently. any way, thank you, chuck todd. >> yeah, buddy. up next, here is hypocrisy,

remember when senate republicans pledged a ban for earmarks? it turns out they didn't really mean it. they didn't need it the new bill is loaded with money for senators' pet project. it is in the sideshow it won't shock you. you are watching "hardball" only on msnbc.

back to "hardball." sideshow time, of course. first, elvis is alive, well and back in the building. here is jon stewart on last week's incredible scene in the white house briefing room. >> i'm gonna let him speak very briefly and then i have actually got to go over and do some -- just one more christmas party. >> you're gonna leave that guy, the michael jordan of press briefings, in charge, while you go to a christmas party? >> go ahead. >> mr. president, is there anything else that can be done, in your opinion? >> the comfort lean. ah, the precious. the precious. it's mine. you can't have it back.

nasty obama says. look at this guy. it's like he never left. he is doing the creepy smile. he is doing a little knuckle point, a little lip biting. what the [ bleep ] was that? he has introduced the tongue swirl. guy's got moves we have never even seen before. it is a virtuoso performance. obama what are you doing? >> stewart at his best. i actually consider it a show of confidence on president obama's part, passing this tax day would be a huge victory, of course, bill clinton might just be the one who helps put him over the top. next, 'tis the political san. democratic leader harry reid has said that the senate could work right through christmas day or around at least christmas eve,

if it hasn't been rat fig the nuclear arms deal with russia. republican senator jon kyl's response says reid is disrespecting christians. republican jim demint echoed the religious rage calling it sacrilegious. to hold a vote on s.t.a.r.t. around christmas. here is senator reid defending himself and shooting back. >> i don't need to hear the sanctimonious lectures of senator kyl and demint to remind me of what christmas means. my question, madam president, is where were their concerns about christmases to in that filibuster after filibuster on a major piece of legislation during this entire congress? >> well, how about a nuclear arms race, a renewed one? is that a better way to celebrate christmas? look, s.t.a.r.t.'s important enough to stick around, at least another week. finally, do as i say, not as i do. here we go. hypocrisy time. republican senator john cornyn has requested millions in pet projects in a new spending bill

designed with all that ballyhoo on the earmark moratorium. here he is today on fox facing the heat from mark halperin. >> earmarks, too, according to this list, some 16 million for your home state. can you defend that, senator? >> well, i believe i can but i'm not going to because i'm going to vote against this bill. >> you favor earmarks is what you're saying? >> i do not. i think we need an earmark moratorium which i voted for for two years till we fix this broken system because it's become a symbol -- >> i get it, but i'm confused then, why is there 16 million in request from you listed here, is that not true? >> earlier on in the year, i did request earmarks that i think are individually defensible. >> good for bill hammer, confused him with mike because he acts on those scenes, something if either party goes cold turkey, which brings us to

tonight's big number. how much in earmarks is in the new big spending bill? $8 billion. americans voted overwhelmingly for government to control spending just a month ago and congress has decided it would rather keep a few influential people happy with the earmarks, even if it makes a lot of regular people generally unhappy $8 billion in earmarks despite all the hype about getting rid of them. tonight's height of hypocrisy, big number. up next, standardized test scores of american schoolkids at age 15 are way down. our kids are trailing behind asian and european students. what can we do about this? why are the schools doing this terrible job? we have got schools reformer michelle rhee coming in here. what a great person she is. you are watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

>> i'm on twitter, it's a great tool but i don't like that they limit you to 140 -- [ grunting ] it's just not fair. limit you to 140 characters. dad used to say some of the most important things of life takes about 200 characters to say so i can't talk about it. >> we are back and that's jimmy fallon, hilarious spoof of an emotional john boehner, begins to look like him. the speaker known for frequently tearing up. if you didn't know that after he gave his acceptance speech on election night you certainly knew it after he cried three separate times on "60 minutes" this week.

check it out. there's nothing wrong with emotion, but this is really something to talk about. >> i'm a pretty emotional guy and there is nothing wrong with emotions and i have been talking -- trying to talk about the fact that i've been chasing the american dream my whole career. >> and that was it? >> that was it. >> and you're gonna cry again. >> i know. i'm making sure that these kids have a shot at the american dream like i did. it's important. >> what set you off that time? 'cause she's proud of you? >> wow. so will nancy pelosi be able to get away with crying the way boehner did or male politicians enjoy the politician to weep more than female politicians? i love the fact that joan walsh

joins us for this, editor at large for salon and michelle bernard, another favorite of mine personally all these years working together, an msnbc political analyst and president of bernard center for women politics and policy. joan, here's the story. joan, these women on the right, sharron angle, christine, sarah, constantly kicking the other guy below the belt for being unmanly, for being limp, for being whatever, impotent, for being unmanly, daring them to man up, saying, put on their man pants, this relentless chime, this relentless anthem of nonsense from right-wing women addressed at reasonable democratic candidates on the other side. >> right. >> now they are numero uno, the man in charge the stud duck of the republican party, the man right at the front is mr. tears, lonely tear drops and they got no problem with it. explain, lucy. explain. i don't get it. >> weeper boehner they are calling him. >> well i don't have any problem with him. it's hypocrisy. >> it is hypocrisy. >> and this manly, macho crap that we're getting from the

republican side. and then their own guy is very normal, he's very emotional but he gets a walk. your thoughts. >> he gets a walk. not going to tell him to man up because i think men should allowed to cry but come on, chris, there is something a little bit off about all of these water works. some of them are set off by things that don't make any sense and there seems to be some underlying -- i don't know, sadness that's welling up in him at unexpected times. a woman would never get away with it. you and i were both -- not together but both in new hampshire the day hillary clinton cried. my blackberry was blowing up. we know everybody we talked to, that's all they wanted to talk about that day. you know, the same hasn't been true of mr. boehner, i think a woman would be -- a woman on the verge of a leadership position doing this, they would find another leader. >> remember pat schroeder let's look at the montage this is becoming endemic or pandemic, my old bosses, a great man, ed muskie, not sure he is crying here, but denouncing newspaper,

ought to be, denounced the publisher of that new hampshire paper because he was trashing the senator's wife. let's listen to this. >> maybe i said all i should have. fortunately for him, he is not on this platform beside me. >> i could not figure out how to run and not be separated from those i serve. there must be a way but i haven't figure it had out yet. >> i think about the families, the children. i am -- i'm a loving guy. >> true measure of a man is how you handle victory and also defeat. >> i just don't want to see us fall backwards. no. >> when judd walked out of this chamber, walks out of this chamber for the last time, he will leave an enormous void behind.

>> okay, michelle? >> you know, i think that times -- things have really, really evolved. people, you know, joan's blackberry probably went off when hillary clinton cried after losing iowa, because a lot of people didn't know if she were capable of crying, i think it was a shock. i think that men should be allowed to cry, women should be allowed to cry. >> remember that senator clinton was responding to a very sympathetic concern. >> personal. >> say about her personal feelings about what she had been going through, she was almost -- you know, talked to on that personal basis, gave a personal response, as i recall. >> absolutely. and people -- i think there were a lot of people who were stunned to see it this is the woman who after all of the talk came out out about monica lewinsky -- >> i'm not sure that that helped her, if that helped her at this point. but what is this story about this -- are we now free to cry? men?

now that boehner did it? >> yeah. >> did it? the doors are open. >> it was very endearing to watch george herbert walker bush do it he talks about his family and he cries it just she is human side. >> let's take a look, here he is defending his tendency to emote. here is a boehner. >> what you see is what you get. i know who i am. i'm comfortable in my own skin and everybody who knows me knows i get emotional about certain things. >> here is what speaker pelosi said about her counterpart, mr. boehner, "he is known to crime he cries sometimes when we are having a debate on bills. if i cry, it's about the personal loss of a friend or something like that but when he comes -- it comes to politics, no, i don't cry. i have deep emotion about the american people. if i were to cry for anything, i would cry for them and the policies" -- oh, come on. just too much talk about this from these -- is this comparative crying? >> exactly. my tears are more normal than your tears it makes no sense

whatsoever. it is ridiculous. >> i don't think the public cares. >> michelle and i have given men permission to cry so we have got a bipartisan consensus here. the two of us say men, go ahead and cry. >> go for it. >> go for it. >> more guys have cried over women who have given them a hard time than you will ever know about. >> oh, god. don't -- >> nothing we can do that about that. >> true emotions in the boy/girl department not in politics, i can assure you, based on long-ago history. >> you come from where john boehner has come and you get this education and you become the speaker of the house, as he soon will be, i think that calls for some emotion. >> joan, imagine -- you can't imagine, you are his flack, his press secretary, you are sitting with him, do you advise him not to cry what do you say? >> i would advise him not to cry, frankly, about this stuff first of all, it also makes someone like me, the night of the election, i look at those tears and think maybe he's crying because he's turned -- he works for the wealthy and powerful in this country and turned his back on the people

like his family. >> oh, god, joan that is so unfair. >> i think it is as reasonable as anything else i can think. he wants to repeal financial reform. he is the friend of the wealthy and powerful, not helping children climb that whole -- those crocodile tears, they may be real tears but he -- what, is he mr. -- >> you are so tough. >> i am tough. he's a politician. he can cry but when i look at these political justifications, he cries because he is worried about children? i haven't seen any evidence that he is worried about children. did he vote to extend the s-chip program to give people health care, vote for food stamps, vote for things that kids need? no, as a matter of fact. >> i bet you coming in january we will see speaker boehner be one of the leaders in the house that will vote for school choice, for school vouchers that will allow every single child in this country to have an equal education. i bet you that's one area of common ground that you and i can come back on "hardball" and agree he has done something well and something honorable. >> some school voucher programs

are wonderful but not the panacea for equal education for poor children. they simply aren't, michelle. >> stuck in a d.c. public school, you may think that the school voucher program is the panacea. >> i have been working on this project and found out the only time i know pretty much for sure jack kennedy ever cried about a public issue was when he thought about the children that would be killed in a nuclear war and it was for real. i think that would pass muster with all of us. thank you. >> absolutely. >> thank you, joan walsh, thank you, michelle bernard. up next, american students are falling behind, talk about a crying shame. that's having a big impact on our competitiveness in the world. this is our future workforce by the way. former school leader michelle rhee is here will join us about what can be done about this creeping disaster of our kids falling further and further behind in the world in math, in language in everything. this is "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪ [ male announcer ] an everyday moment can turn romantic anytime. and when it does, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven

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>> the s.t.a.r.t. treaty finally on the floor of the senate. >> yep. >> but not without one republican senator threatening to read every last word in that treaty and another senator, leading opponent senator kyl, saying it is disrespectful to the christmas holiday to be even bringing it up. what do you say to senator kyl and the others who are dragging their feet? >> get out of the way. there's too much at stake for america's national security. and don't tell me about christmas. i understand christmas. i have been a senator for a long time. i have been there many years where we go right up to christmas. there's ten days between now and christmas. i hope i don't get in the way of your christmas shopping but this is the nation's business. this is a national security at stake. act. act. >> well, he has had a good year, actually. vice president biden's full interview airs tomorrow at 1:00 eastern on "andrea mitchell reports" here on msnbc. "hardball" back after this.

we wake up every morning and you know that kids are getting a really crappy education right now. >> so, you think that most of the kids here are getting a crappy education right now? >> i don't think they are, i know they are. >> welcome back to "hardball" that is a clip from the great movie "waiting for superman," by davis guggenheim, which made a national figure of then-d.c. school's chancellor michelle rhee. we saw her, she stepped down in

d.c. when the mayor who had given her unwavering support was defeated for re-election, she now launched an organization, students first, to continue her mission of education reform. michelle, hu so much for joining us. it's great to have you on. i'm a big supporter of what you've tried to do. let's take a look at these scores to the public watching right now knows the horror story that's facing up. this is america we're talking about. a new survey of standardized about. a new survey of standardized test scores compares the knowledge and scores of a 15-year-old in the principal industrialized countries of the world. in reading, the u.s. ranks 14th. tied with poland and iceland. we lag band-aid shanghai, finland, hong kong. in science, the u.s. ranks 17. again, we lag behind shanghai, finland, hong kong. and on math, the united states ranks now a disgusting 25th, way below the average. here again, way behind shanghai, singapore, hong kong and korea. what goes on in a public school

that allows that to happen? is the teacher asleep? are they lagubrows? boring? describe this scene in a d.c. school for the 15-year-old that makes them that behind the competition? >> well, in d.c. public schools across the city, we were facing situations where, yes, children were not engaged in quality instruction. they did not have high standards for what we expected them to be able to do. and we had kids who were moving from grade level to grade level without the requisite skills and knowledge that they needed to be successful in life. >> so what's a teacher do when they do social promotion? do they just say, well, that's the deal? that's the deal here. >> well, remember, this isn't a problem with teachers with social promotion. this is a policy that school districts often put in place, saying that it's going to be better for the welfare of the

children if we move them along. but what we don't realize is that we're so focused on how to make kids feel good, that we're actually not teaching them how to read and do math, which is really what is going to make them feel proud of themselves. >> well, if you can donate double-digit multiple multiplication, you can't further equations. sometimes when you're doing econometrics, you're going, please, what's going on here? but when you're in high school, the most important time in your life to get english, math, and some science, if you don't get it there, you're not going to go to college, and if you do, you'll get a second-rate opportunity because you don't know what you're doing. >> that's right. one of the most disturbing things that would happen to me on a regular basis, kids that would graduate from the d.c. public schools and go on to college would come back and say, i got all as and was the valedictorian, but now i'm in remedial classes. i thought i was doing everything right, but now i'm in college and they're telling me i don't

have the skills and knowledge i need to be successful in college. so we're really not doing children a service by promoting them from grade level to grade level without actually knowing what you need to in that particular grade. >> so my daughter went to a very good catholic school in washington, georgetown visitation. she goes to university of pennsylvania and realizes she's ahead of the kids there at a great ivy league school. so how come the catholic schools do better than the public schools? >> i wouldn't just say it's the catholic schools. we have a lot of public schools that do a great job too, a lot of public charter schools that do a great job. i don't think it's about the sector that a school's in. i think it's the ability to have a great principal, to have that principal have a great staff of teachers. and if you talk to some of the best schools, whether they're public schools or charter schools or private schools, what they'll tell you is it's all about teacher quality. >> is the teachers unions of america, are they for education or for the teachers? >> well, look, you know, people

want to give teachers unions a hard time right now, and people are saying, why aren't the unions coming along. why don't we get them to change. why can't they embrace reform? but the bottom line, the purpose of the teachers union is to protect their members. it's to maximize the pay and privileges of the teachers. so the teachers unions aren't really the problem. they're just doing their job and they're doing an excellent job of that. but the problem is, is when all you have as a special interests group is the teachers union and you don't have an organized interest group that's advocating on behalf of children, you create an imbalance where the policies and laws that are put in place are put in place, you know, for adults instead of for children. and that's the purpose of my new organization, students first, is we're going to advocate and put pressure on decisionmakers and politicians to put kids first. >> okay. well, i wish you well. and stay away from the right wing. don't let them grab control of you. you're too good to be grabbed by some ideological fool. because you are important. >> absolutely not. >> you're certainly important to this country. thank you, michelle rhee. when we return, let me

finish with what the polls are telling us about the president, the democratic party, and the way politics are played right now. o0 c1 2 o0 a new prescription drug plan, behold -- your window of opportunity is here. now until december 31st, you can enroll in an aarp medicarerx plan insured through unitedhealthcare. call now for free information or to enroll. see why over 4.3 million members are enrolled in these plans. i recently got this letter from my current drug plan.

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let me finish tonight with politicians. they say they don't pay attention to polls. they do, of course. they not only pay attention,

they pay for polls. it's the first thing candidates do when they begin to campaign. they hire a first-rate pollster and find out what people are thinking. personally, i love polls. i love to know what my fellow americans are thinking. now, i've listened to this storm against the president, listened to it even as i've sided with the basic assessment that if he hadn't dealt, the republicans would come riding into town next month, cutting for taxes for everybody, after the democrats led by nancy pelosi let them go up. that's the reality i've been looking at, even as i've tried not to be critical of those angered by the cruddy reality that led to obama's decision to deal. the result of a terribly anemic economy, and a republican leadership in earnest to play the nasty politics seen in this country in a long while. ready to kill the economic recovery rather than let obama get a win. now to the polls. the new nbc/"wall street journal" poll shows democrats with 63% of democrats want their party leaders here to make compromises rather than stick to their positions. 29% want them to stick to their