what you're doing awake. our producer rob gifford has answers. what are they saying. >> willie, don says, my freezer broke and i had to drink the gin before it got warm. >> why are you up drinking gin out of your freezer? come on, come on, don. what else? >> art and michael both write, we were up this early to see if you will dance shirtless for us. >> truth is you don't want to see that you know, i have taken the first step. you may have noticed. this button popped off my jacket. here's the deal, i literally get dressed deal. i literally get dressed in the dark. some people say they get dressed in the dark. i get dressed in the dark. let's end today's program with these gentlemen and the pope. drink it in. it is the christmas time of year. "morning joe" starts right now. i don't want to hear the

sanctimonious lectures of senator kyle denoint remind me of what christmas means. my question, madam president, where were the concerns about christmas with filibuster after filibuster on major pieces of legislation during this entire congress. >> it is possible to do the majority of what was laid out frankly without disrespecting the institution and without disrespecting one of the two holiest of holidays for christians and the families of all of the senate, not just the senators themselves, but all of the staff. all right. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, december 16th. they're a little concerned i guess, getting close to christmas. >> with us onset, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. editor and chief of "the daily beast" and editor and chief of "newsweek," tina brown back on the set with us.

good morning. >> i'm blown away. that's offensive. >> it is a little offensive. >> we'll start the day agreeing. is that possible? >> it's offensive that people would use christianity for political leverage with an argument that is so baseless, that i've got to say my breath is taken away for so many reasons. do we want to start with the most obvious ones, about who is not going to be home on christmas day. >> i can think of thousands of americans who will not be home with their children. >> troops in afghanistan. are they disrespecting a holiday by continuing to vote to keep them in afghanistan? i don't know. >> there is news on that today. it doesn't look like they'll have a timeline any time soon. >> of course not. mike barnicle, there are a lot of working class people that i guess the senator doesn't know, the senators don't know that

work late into christmas eve, wake up still a few hours with their children and go back to work on christmas day. are their employers disrespecting christmas. does jesus not live in washington, d.c.? can they not worship jesus in washington, d.c.? to be sanctimonious and to use that is just -- it is offensive. the republican party has the upper hand in so many ways. in these areas they need to shut their mouth. they're embarrassing themselves. >> we've been saying the same thing on several occasions with regard to issues like this and rhetoric like this, these are not serious people. they're not serious people. i don't know whether senator kyle and senator demint either inject themselves with novocain in the cheeks or soak their faces in cement. how i don't can say that without bursting into laughter, it's so absurd. it's so offensive, i don't know how they do it.

>> to be self righteous. do we want to go through bible versus? but questioning harry reid's christianity suggesting he's blasphemo blasphemous. i remember we were voting on impeachment on december 19th or 20th back in 1999. no one was throwing baby jesus under the bus that year. >> in britain there used to be a he would say pass the sick bag, alice. it is absolutely right. pass the sick bag. how do you get that out of your mouth? i just don't know. what mike said is absolutely right. anyone looking at what's going on will say these people are privilege laos, they don't understand. talking about fiddling while rome burns. >> the same applies to the s.t.a.r.t. treaty which they just need to read, not on the floor. >> willie, i don't usually say this, but i do think that

senator demint who i know and like and respect and jon kyle owe harry reid an after polling. i will say there. i will go there. it is unchrist-like to judge another man's faith in the way they have judged harry reid's faith, a devout mormon, a devout christian. there is nothing biblical ability that. nothing. >> this rises to the level of self parody. if stephen colbert didn't already tear it apart last night, we'll do it tonight. this is on the level of freedom fries. these are the kind of things that people look at and say our politicians are not adult. >> could this be kind of the newt gingrich airplane moment? i think this could be a blowing it moment. >> the interesting thing is when you hear this, when you hear things like this from kyle and demint, do they really think we're that stupid? do we really think that we buy this stuff?

how insulting do an american citizen to think that they think this will score points, people will really react when i say, you know, they're not going to have time to wrap the presents because of what we're doing here in washington. >> talk about out of touch. >> i've seen jon kyle's remarks. i haven't seen senator demint's remarks. i guess we'll get to them. i don't want myself to be guilty of judging what jim said. i'm going to look at them. the bottom line is you don't, you were told not to judge others. they are judging harry reid's faith and suggesting that he's being disrespectful of christianity. they need to look in the mirror this morning and ask if that's really where they want to go. if not, they really need to apologize to harry reid. this is a horrible way -- let's put up demint's comments. this is a horrible way to go into a new congress, questioning another man's faith.

we should be jamming major arms control treaties up against christmas. it's sacrilegious and disrespectful. this is the most sacred holiday for christians. they did the same thing last year. they kept everybody here until christmas eve to force something down everybody's throat. i think americans are sick of this. >> the white house will say in response to that is they've had the s.t.a.r.t. treaty for many, many months. they had time to work on it. the last one took three days. it was different. they can get it done. they don't want to. >> senator demint has said he wanted to read allowed the entire treaty on the floor. the argument you don't have enough time to get to it except you have time to read for 12 hours. >> that is offensive, the idea you would waste time like that. >> mika, i was talking about this yesterday, that this is one of the ways that we conservatives, the 12 most conservative guys in the house of representatives on fiscal matters in 1997 got our way on

budget cuts. everybody wanted to leave for easter holidays. we refused to let them go until -- because if we kept voting down the rule, they needed to pass this bill to keep the house operating and we refused to do it. they said a lot of really nasty things to us. but jim and senator kyle need to understand that people like steve large into was in the room with me that day we did that and to call harry reid sacrilegious is calling of of us who did this in the past sacrilegious. it's offensive. sometimes you say things they don't mean. they need to apologize. sometimes you say things in the heat of battle. i know this. i think it would be good for them. it would be good for the united states senate for them to apologize because they are questioning harry reid's faith, and that is deeply offensive to most americans. >> i think we agree with that. point taken. let's lay out what's going

on in washington. the house will vote today on president obama's tax plan after it easily cleared the senate yesterday by an overwhelming 81-19 vote. both republican and democrats agreed to extend the bush era tax rates for all americans and pass an extension of jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed. the $858 billion plan would be financed entirely by adding the the national debt. despite that the president pitched if deal as key to the economy's recovery and asked the house to follow the senate's lead. >> i am absolutely convince thad this tax cut plan, while not perfect, will help grow our economy and create jobs in the private sector. we worked hard to negotiate an agreement that's a win for middle class families and a win for our economy. we can't afford to let it fall victim to either delay or defeat. so i urge members of congress to pass these tax cuts as swiftly as possible.

>> later today the house will vote on the pact, but not before giving some democrats one last chance to force a change to the legislation. the amendment would set the estate tax at 45% rather than the 35% currently in the package. if it passes, the bill would return to the senate setting up a showdown with republicans who have vowed to oppose any changes to it. still progressives remain upset about the deal. >> the white house is putting on tremendous pressure, making phone calls. the president is making phone calls saying this is the end of his presidency if he doesn't get this bad deal. i don't feel that way. i think this is potentially the end of his possibility of being re-elected if he gets this deal and it's a trap. it's a trap on social security and on progressivity in our tax system and a tax on huge cuts to programs we care about because this adds half a trillion bucks to the deficit next year. next year the new republicans come in, whoa, we've got to cut the heck out of everything because we have a $1.7 billion

obama deaf set. they won't be talking about therapy role in creating it. >> if the state tax amendment fails, the house would vote on the senate passed bill which is expected to pass. >> by the way, that's what they always say oovps. that is the nuclear weapon for whips, which is if this bill doesn't pass, this is the end. i've heard it three times. >> it's a crisis things. we've got to do it. >> this is the end of the clinton presidency. that's what they told the democrats one vote after another. then they told us, if this doesn't pass, this is the end of our speakership. now they're breaking that one out. >> yeah, why not? >> if they don't pass tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires, barack obama's presidency ends. whoever would have thought it would come down to that? >> there are a couple of things that have to get done before they go away for christmas holiday. the s.t.a.r.t. treaty, if they put that off, i don't know what

to say. we should get to afghanistan, but one more thing. despite staggering midterm losses and an unemployment rate still hovering around 10%, results from the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll give president obama a reason to be optimistic. first we have the negative numbers. the president's job approval rating is down two points from last month, 45% approve, 48% disapprove. the direction of the country, 28% think we're on the right track. 63% think we're on the wrong track and obama personal versus professional qualities, positive on his personal, 58%. 36% positive on his professional. >> so when do we get to the good news? you said we'll do the bad news first. i'm not seeing any good news. >> keep digging. >> let's dig deeper. >> dig into the numbers and look behind the numbers. on the tax cut agreement, look

at this, 59% approve of it. 36% disapprove. >> a trillion dollars, yay, deeper in debt. is that snow coming from the sky? no, baby, that's chinese money, they're giving us another trillion dollars. the poll shows president obama with a comfortable lead against generic republican candidate. is there such a thing? >> i guess that's the good news. >> 42 to 39. looking at specific match-ups, president obama would top mitt romney 47% over 40%. over sarah palin, 55% to her 33%. >> huh. let's see what they think of sarah palin. >> the opinion of sarah palin in this poll, 50% negative to 28% positive. >> so the good news i guess is the republicans don't have anybody that comes close to

president obama. >> i feel he's bottoming out, though. i feel he's building back now. >> i would think so. >> i think so. and i do feel anecdotally there are real stirrings now in the economy. a lot of crazy hiring going on at the moment in this town which means nothing to a lot of other places. but i feel it's almost like everybody cut everything they could possibly cut and nothing to do now except reinvent which means you've got to hire. >> hire someone, exactly. the cycle. >> mike, his numbers stayed fairly strong despite the fact we've been saying here for two years that he was way too far left for the middle of america. and he didn't focus on jobs. now, he's -- i hate this bill, this tax bill, but now he is focused like a laser on jobs, and i can't believe es those numbers don't start creeping up. >> he's also i think getting a little bump out of the one word repeatedly used over the past week and a half, compromise.

he's getting a bump out of that. people want to see these fools, these knit wits in congress. >> a christmas gift to obama. you hear what people are going to be saying, doctors, nurses, teachers and all those things. >> by the way, after they just were -- gave so much on the tax deal, they can do the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. up next, the white house releasing the long-awaited assessment on the war in afghanistan. the details coming up in the politico playbook. we have congressman chris van hollen, mort zuckerman, jean chatzky and former secretary william cohen. a story making front page news today. first here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. more winter weather woes in the ohio valley through the mid atlantic. now dealing with an ice storm and snow. temperatures are plenty cold enough for snow.

a little bit in indianapolis last night. in d.c., get ready. snow will head your way this afternoon. here is a look at the radar. the pink is the freezing rain. that came down in lexington, louisville, cincinnati, much of kentucky is under a glaze of ice this morning. snow is moving into west virginia and ever so slowly it will head for virginia and areas south of d.c. richmond could end up with three to five inches this afternoon. the forecast today, still cold from new york to boston. watch out for snowshowers especially this afternoon, d.c. south ward. no accumulations in philadelphia. a little light rain in atlanta. areas in the midwest should be dry and warming up. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

an unusual category in the golden globe awards. watch this. the nominees for outstanding performance by an animal killed by sarah palin are, slaughtered caribou, sarah palin's alaska. bludgeoned hall butt, sarah palin's alaska and black bear in tree, sarah palin's alaska. back with more nominees after these words. >> oh, my gosh. >> her imprint is being seen in television. >> little disturbing. >> publishing, television, politics. >> she's universal. 19 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. a powerful photo in "the new york times," tensions boil over in greece where protesters opposed to budget class clash with police ahead of the european meeting to deal with financial crisis. the mississippi "sun herald" t justice department is suing bp

and several other companies for disregarding federal safety regulation that is led to the gulf oil spill as the government looks to recover billions of dollars spent on the cleanup. "wall street journal," phone wielding shoppers strike fear into big retailers. marketers must contend with customers who use smart phone apps to instantly compare prices and see if a sale is all it's cracked up to b i love that. the u.s.a. today, after all the negative publicity from airport pat-downs, the tsa in los angeles is trying something new, choir sing sglg they sing while they pat you down. >> and rub you. more than a dozen singers and musicians who work for agency perform holiday songs while travelers are molested in lines. >> that's a good try. >> i'm on with the tsa on that

one. >> that was a silly story. we all did, and we got panned online for -- >> seriously, i started going up hugging tsa people saying it's going to be okay, thanksgiving weekend, grabbing them. moving my hands up and down. >> then you said please grope me again. >> that was completely madeup story. >> it was a madeup story. but we went along with it. >> willy and i admitted that we actually like the pat-downs, mika. let's bring in nicole lapin at cnbc headquarters in englewood cliffs, new jersey. the fed tackling debit card fees today. >> joe may need to hug the bankers. we're watching the rate that banks charge retailers every time a debit card is swiped. right now it is huge. it is 1.6%. that is eight times higher than what it is in europe. so today the fed is expected to

slash that in half. there's two parts of this. it could cost the banks billions in profits. you remember financials got killed when the story first broke this summer. then you have the other part of it. here is the rub. the consumer, we might come out ahead on this because presumebly that's going to go back to the retailers and presumably that's going to go back to you and i, the consumer. it's basically being dubbed like a consumer tax cut. >> that's great. >> i think so. do we get charged -- they charge the banks? what about when we use our debit card? >> presumably the retailers pass that on to us. if they don't have to pay as much, hopefully they'll slash prices there. but we could also see rewards programs being cut because the banks are going to have to make up for that. >> okay. >> we're going to get nickelled and dimed somehow. i'll let you know. >> the feds proposal should matter to discover financialry reports earnings today. what other earnings are expected to day.

>> fedex is expecting to show strong. looking the the international shipments while slow growth continues in the u.s. of course, here is why it matters, it's the second largest package delivery company and moves a ton of goods for businesses and consumers. so this really, guys, is the first check on how the holiday shipping season is doing, and at least for investors, fedex is expected -- wait for the cheesy pun -- to deliver some holiday cheer this morning. i had to. i had to. >> pack your patience. >> nicole lapin, thank you very much. >> thanks, nicole. let's go to the playbook. here the editor and chief john harris at politico. good morning. >> good morning. >> we've got news coming across the wires of this much-anticipated report. the review of the af-pack strategy. what are we finding out? >> the administration put out a bunch of documents yesterday. this is very much a breaking news story this morning.

the so-called av-pak review, he promised he'd come back and look at this in december. the results are a conclusion, a very tentative conclusion. he said his strategy is working but has not yet worked. they say progress in degrading al qaeda, improving some of the diplomatic relationships in afghanistan and pakistan which are key to success. the administration has always said. they're also very frank that the gains are quite fragile, quite fragmentary in many places. they also make clear that, yes, troops are going to start to withdraw in july 2011. but u.s. forces will remain in a combat mission there through july -- through 2014 at least. >> we know that's at least 2014 because that date keeps moving. one of the big concerns just reading through some of the findings in the report is about pakistan, not getting the help we need from them fighting militants across the border. >> right.

it's an old, old story in pakistan. obviously deep, ambivalent mixed feelings about the pakistani leadership. the administration does boast that al qaeda in pakistan they think is weaker than any time it's been in years. but clearly the lack of trust between the u.s. government and the pakistani leadership, in particular the intelligence services within the military remains a huge problem. >> joe, no great surprises in here. the bottom line they say we will be fighting until 2014 in afghanistan. >> willie, what is interesting here, president obama, bob woodward's book made clear how ambivalent he feels about his own mission there. the results seem to say in for a dime, in for a dollar. no question awe eel be in a combat setting there for years to come. >> it's so hard to say with these things, mike. how many times did lyndon johnson get reviewed saying vietnam was going in the right direction? >> from march of 1965 through

march of '68, things are going swell. we just need another hundred thousand troops, another 50,000 troops, 70,000 troops. >> it's alarm that the one campaign promise obama kept was that he was going to go into afghanistan. he's going to be a war president when he goes into the next election which is really extraordinary when you think about it. i think it's a great disaster. i think it's going to be cruelly judged, this decision. >> we are ten years in and they already pushed us to 14 and then beyond at the nato meeting, saying we're going to be there beyond 14. >> this could go into a potential second term. >> let's put it this way. if the generals get their way and if you believe what they said at the nato meeting, let's say we go through 2015, 2016, that means that kids who were 2 years old when this war began will be dieing in 2016. >> general petraeus has said that when he said your

grandchildren will be in this. the lack of dick holbrooke right now is going to be so tragically missed. >> john harris, thank you so much. we'll talk to you a little later. coming up, just when michael vick was making news for what he was doing on the football field, the eagles quarterback tells nbc he's ready to own a dog again. >> no. don't do it. that's next in sports. one of the greatest moments ever committed to tape, joe, you're going to love this one. chip and daels reforming for the pope. this happened at the vatican yesterday. >> no, it didn't. >> sure did. details -- >> this week las been outrageous. >> that's sacrilegious. >> what is wrong with you? >> what about christmas? ring ring. progresso. oh yes hi.

can you please put my grandma on the phone please? thanks. excuse me a sec. another person calling for her grandmother. she thinks it's her soup huh? i'm told she's in the garden picking herbs. she is so cute. okay i'll hold. she's holding. wha? (announcer) progresso. you gotta taste this soup. princess of the powerpoint. your core competency... is competency. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go.

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[ chuckles ] you think that is some information i would have liked to know? i like tacos. you invited eric? i thought eric gave you the creeps. [ phone buzzes ] oh. [ chuckles ] yeah. hey. [ male announcer ] don't be left behind. get it first with at&t. the nation's fastest mobile broadband network. period. rethink possible. and while it can never be fully answered, it helps to have a financial partner like northern trust. by gaining a keen understanding of your financial needs, we're able to tailor a plan using a full suite... of sophisticated investment strategies and solutions. so whatever's around the corner can be faced with confidence. ♪ northern trust. look ahead with us at northerntrust.com.

welcome back to "morning joe." 32 past the hour. look how pretty the tree is. quick look at the news and then we have an e-mail we must read to you. "the new york times" reports that fellow prosecutors are trying to build a conspiracy case against wikileaks founder

julian assange. according to "the times" the justice department is trying to find out whether assange encouraged or helped private bradley manning, the army specialist suspected of leaking the state department files. if assange did so, the report says officials believe they could charge him as a conspirator in the leak. meanwhile, live pictures right now of a london court wheassangs trying to get a judge to grant him bail. he was given a conditional release earlier this week. swedish prosecutors challenged the order. this morning's "new york times" is also offering advice for surviving a nuclear attack. the method from the government is to not flee, get inside any stable building and don't come out until officials say it's safe. the suggestion is based on recent scientific analyses indicating such an attack is more survivable if you immediately shield yourself from the lethal radiation that follows a blast.

however, according to "the times" the obama administration is finding it hard to spread the word without seeming alarmist about a subject that few politiciantion care to discuss. >> we need to discuss it because it's a reality that over the next five years it's likely terrorists are going to get their hands on a nuclear device, and the second they do, guess where they're going to want to detonate? it's going to be right here, times square. they better talk about it. they better plan it because that's the world we live in today. this technology is going to proliferate over the coming years. >> that's why "the new york times" is doing it. before we go to sports, this e-mail is too good, it has to do with politicians in washington concerned about maybe missing their christmas holiday. chris? >> from vicky, i'm a nurse and i sacrifice many holidays with families to take care of hospital patients. how dare the elect dollar

officials suggest that -- grow up, put your big girl panties on and get to work. >> these statements were offensive to harry reid because they questioned his faith in jesus, said he was sacrilegious. it's also, though, offensive to a lot of people who work hard around the clock, who have no choice to fly home and be with their families and take two weeks off or go on junkets overseas. nurses, mike, people that work in restaurants. >> police officers, firefighters. >> young men and women in afghanistan today, young men and women in places like ft. bragg, camp pendleton, waiting to leave to go to afghanistan. stop it. >> how many christmases have these american heroes missed over the past decade? how many christmases have police officers missed. sure they do shifts.

they've got to go in. >> i thought joe biden was good, i really did, in his statements about get on with the nation's business, stop it. >> now to sports, let's turn to willie geist. not every day that we start with an nba game. the new york knicks are suddenly good this year. it's been a decade in the wilderness. a great game last night. knicks won 13 of 14 going in. they met the 20-4 celtics who won ten in a row. amar'e stoudemire scored more than 30 points in each of his last eight. didn't disappoint last night. 39 points for amar'e stoudemire. the knicks led the celtics through the first three-quarters. in the fourth, the celtics pulled even. with .4 seconds, paul pierce, a little step-back jumper, looks like the game win nerp putting the celtics up by two. there were still .4 seconds on the clock. one more chance. stoudemire a catch and shoot at the buzzer, it goes. if the three-pointer counts, the

knicks win by one point. did look like he held it too long. let's check out the replay. the red light means the game is over. a little too late. a great fight from the knicks. celtics win 118-116. they've won 11 consecutive games. >> did you see spike lee after the game was over. he went out and started taunting the celtics. it was great. how exciting that knicks fans have something to be cheering about. >> good for basketball. >> it is. >> watching the end of the game, it sounded like it sounded in the mid '90s when the bulls could come in. lebron and the heat, miami heat have also won ten in a row. it gets no easier. it's witness over a year since michael vick was released from federal prison. he served 21 months on dogfighting charges. one of the conditions of his release, he can never own a dog again. >> that seems fair. you want to keep him away -- >> and just move on. >> i'd be no careful if no dog

wandered into his zip code. he sat down for an interview and explained to mara he thinks a dog would help his rehab. >> oh, come on. i would love to have another dog in the future. i think it would be a big step for me in rehabilitation process. i miss having a dog right now. i wish i could. my daughters, they miss having one. and that's the hardest thing is telling them we can't have one because of my actions. >> michael, let me just say that fido does not miss you. no dogs. >> one more note we should mention, one of the greatest pitchers to ever play the game of baseball died yesterday, bob feller known as rapid robert for his near 100-mile-an-hour fastball joined the indians at the age of 16 for $1.00. he went on to win 266 games in 18 seasons despite the fact that

he lost four years serving in the navy during world war ii. feller was the first major league player to enlist in the armed forces after the bombing of pearl har bon. an eight-time al star, inducted into the hall of fame in 1962 in his first year of eligibility. he went, enlisted in the army the day after pearl harbor, december 8, 1941. >> quite a few major league players who were in their prime, ted williams, yogi berra was at d-day. not many people know that. >> i heard ted williams is a remarkable pilot. that the same vision he added at the plate. my grandfather told me that who flew during world war ii. he said he had this reputation that the same eyesight that made him a remarkable batter made him a great pilot. >> john glenn's wingman in korea. >> really? >> this was at the peak of feller's career. to put it in context, it's like

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. the s.t.a.r.t. treaty finally on the floor of the senate, but not without one republican senator threatening to read every last word in that treaty. and another senator, the leading opponent senator kyle saying it is disrespectful to the christmas holiday to even be bringing it up. what do you say to senator kyle and the others who are dragging their feet? >> get out of the way. there's too much at stake for america's national security. and don't tell me about christmas. i understand christmas. i've been a senator for a long time. i've been there many years where we go right up to christmas. there's ten days between now and

christmas. i hope i don't get in the way of your christmas shopping, but this is the nation's business. this is a national security at stake. act, act. >> all right. >> i love joe. i think he's getting more and more important to obama all the time. >> the vice president making the point 411 to any freshman senators, if you're elected to serve in washington, you might miss christmas. get over it. >> or at least the shopping days leading up to christmas. >> yeah. but this is about the s.t.a.r.t. treaty that has been on the table for discussion for several weeks now and republicans have been wanting to put off a vote on that. >> you know, they need to be more forceful, instead of questioning harry reid's faith in jesus -- >> tell us what's wrong with dealing with it now? >> -- they should probably be more specific and forceful about why the s.t.a.r.t. treaty is so bad. maybe they'd sway americans. this is a political mistake of

the first order for these republican senators to question another senator's religious faith. that turns off americans. it just is a bad mistake. >> a self emulating gap. >> it is. they need to back off of that. a big mistake. joining us from washington former member of the snashl security council during the clinton administration and now executive director of the atlantic council task force on iran, mark braz zin ski. >> what are the main objections that senator kyle has. >> first, that it somehow affects our ability to develop missile defense systems. second, that there hasn't been enough commitment made to modernize our nuclear infrastructure and third, that stleems kind of trade-off in terms of resetting our relationship with russia and our relations with senate europe and the weaker states of europe. first of all, this 16-page treaty does not affect missile

defense. there's some kind of confusion there. the preamble say there is's a relationship between offensive and defensive weapons. that's a statement of fact. the preamble is not binding. second, our relations with central europe and our relationship with russia are not -- >> i want to stop you first on missile defense. so there is nothing that you have seen in the 16 pages of this document that prevent us from continuing to develop missile defense systems? >> nothing at all. in addition, the entire military leadership is on the record in congressional testimony saying that they are behind this treaty because it does not prevent us from developing missile defense. it's true -- >> secretary of defense, robert gates has said as much. >> that's right. exactly. >> let's go to the second point you bring up about their concern about modernizing our nuclear arsenal. >> that was a -- a question raise bid senator kyle, and he quite effectively has gotten the

administration to make an additional commitment which now totals $84 billion, to modernize our nuclear infrastructure. that's a good point. >> is that good enough for kyle because that is a good point that senator kyle brought up. it sounds like the white house agrees with him. so is number two out of the way? >> it's a huge amount of money. if you speak to people who used to run our country's missile defense agencies, they say it's more than enough to modernize our nation's nuclear infrastructure. it's a good point because some of our infrastructure is old. >> let's go to the third point. >> trading our relationship with europe with our relationship with russia. don't take it from me. take it from senator voinovich who is the u.s. senate's leading protector of the countries of europe that are closest to russia. he in his farewell speech yesterday said ratify this treaty, ratify this treaty because it's in the interest of the defense of the countries of central and eastern europe.

i would take his word for it. >> we're not selling out poland who has been a great ally of ours over the past decade who sometimes has not been treated as well by america as it should. this treaty does not weaken poland as far as security goes? >> you know, joe, not only does it not weaken our defense of europe, it actually adds to it. on the one hand, the treaty is a disarmament treaty. it brings down the level of our nuclear warheads to 1,550 on each side. on the other hand, it's a verification treaty. we haven't been able to have trained u.s. inspectors over in russia for more than a year since the expiration of the previous s.t.a.r.t. treaty. that debill taets american national security by signing this treaty and ratifying this treaty we get american inspectors boots on the ground in lush yeah. that's something that president ronald reagan effectively negotiated from the russians. we should renew that.

>> that's critical. >> it's in our security interest. >> mark, you said the piece of legislation, the bill is 16 pages long? >> it's 16 pages long. there's another 160 pages of protocol. >> the 16 pages, the most important aspects of it, when was it introduced? >> it was introduced eight months ago and there have been 20 senate hearings on the treaty, more than 1,000 questions answered on road. >> did it interfere with's center? >> it doesn't interfere with's center, and i will also say this retired general john adams recently put it this way, if 150,000 americans troops can serve over christmas and new year's in iraq, afghanistan and elsewhere, the least we can ask our senators to do is sit in the warm senate chamber and discuss and finally vote up or down on this treaty. >> here here. couldn't agree more. mark, thank you so much for being with us. we really do appreciate it. >> thank you, mark.

>> thank you for having me. >> talk to you later. >> breaking that down. this just doesn't seem difficult. i think the senators that are standing in the way know that if this comes up for a vote it's going to pass overwhelmingly. >> interesting you've had secretaries of state from reagan administration, george h.w. bush, george w. bush getting behind this treaty. >> you're right. what do we have next, willie. here is a turn. we'll go to the vatican. >> did you edit this? >> no, no. we're going to try to explain what exactly is happening in these pictures here. >> i don't think i want to know. >> and what it means for the future of europe. >> it's the holiday season. oh, my god. look at the pope. >> "morning joe" man pyramid next. ♪

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northern trust. look ahead with us at northerntrust.com. >> this is not right. >> around the christmas holiday we like to visit the vault can't whenever possible. >> willie, don't do it. it doesn't seem right. >> nothing sacrilegious about that. yesterday at the vatican, here is the entertainment trotted out before the pope. >> look at the woman behind.

oh, my god. >> this is the pope. >> wait a second. >> what in the sam hill? >> they do this on the jersey shore. you like this. >> this is four acrobats ripping off their shirts and forming a man pyramid pour the 83-year-old pope. this group is in rome for a convention on circuses organized -- >> the nuns love it. the nuns love it. >> oh, my goodness. >> isn't that something? you like that, right, pope? >> thank you, mr. pope. >> the pope may like it a little more than the nuns. >> i don't understand. holiday entertainment. like cirque du soleil. >> they look like the chippendales. >> speaking of ripped men, any news on larry king? >> you know actually we should point out tonight the larry

king's last show ever. >> are you serious? >> this is it. >> who does he have on? on the dead people from the past. >> they'll bring in people from all over the world. don't watch it, though. watch our network of course. larry king last night going out with one of his finest friends, babs, barbra streisand. >> why are you singled out more than most, the right winger radio hosts will often refer to you, barbra streisand. why you do you think? >> woman? big mouth? what do you think? >> you are controversial. i don't know why. maybe because you have such talent that your talent is so overwhelming. >> i have no idea. >> do you think you could have been an architect, too? >> if i went to architect school. >> are you also, therefore, a

control freak? >> we ee're going to miss larry. again, don't watch that show tonight. >> peels away every layer of the onion. >> he does. >> until he gets to the essence, the soul of every subject. >> i think sometimes he runs out of questions and says things like "did you ever want to be an architect?" >> when i asked what his favorite question was. he said you know what i do, i say what happened? >> kind of an open-ended what happened. >> what do you mean, larry? i waited for the next thing. it has to be shrewd, what happened? >> you never know what you're going to get with that. walk up to somebody in the hall, maybe they'll admit -- >> i thought it was sort of brilliant. it makes people tell you what happened. >> what just happened is what i want to know. >> i look in the mirror this

morning and said what happened. >> tina brown, thank you so much. >> we leave you on this final note, a little piece of video for you. >> happy holidays to one and all. >> coming up, chris van hollen and also mort zuckerman and much more when we return on "morning joe."

they're replacing veteran broadcaster larry king -- when i say veteran, i refer to his service during the civil war.

my dearest penelope. the great mr. king is being replaced by a british journalist named piers morgan. his show starts in january. what can we expect. >> i'm piers morgan. i love interviews because i love talking to people. >> oh, man. a funny promo. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle is still with us. >> part of the human pyramid. >> you were out late last night. >> yes, i had a bad ice cube, too. >> i'm sorry. not feeling well? >> i'm feeling just okay. feeling better now. >> why are you out till 12:30. >> out with his wife, out with tom brokaw. >> you get brokaw out late, look out. >> like velcro after midnight. >> that's what it was. >> you have an invitation for us, willie? >> no, i don't. joining us from washington

democratic representative from maryland congressman chris van hollen. the house democrat's point person on the tax deal making its way through congress. we'll talk about that. with us onset, editor and chief and co-publisher of the "new york daily news," mort zuckerman back with us. >> straight to news. the house expected to vote today on the tax deal president obama made with republicans. the measured cleared the senate yesterday by an overwhelming vote. lawmakers from both sides of the aisle agreed to extend the bush era tax cuts for all americans and pass an extension of jobless benefits. the nearly trillion dollar plan would be financed entire li by adding to the national debt. still the president wants the house to act swiftly and follow the senate's lead. >> -- that this tax cut plan, while not perfect, will help grow our economy and create jobs in the private sector. we worked hard to negotiate an

agreement that's a win for middle class families and a win for our economy. we can't afford to let it fall victim to either delay or defeat. so i urge members of congress to pass these tax cuts as swiftly as possible. >> the house will vote on the deal later today. but not before giving progressive democrats a last chance to change it. the amendment would set the estate tax at 45%. >> we need to go back to the video when they're talking to chris, they're wandering around. where do we go? let's go to chris for a second here. if, chris -- >> hey, joe. >> -- there is a bit of confusion in democratic ranks, there's a good reason. you guys are going to be voting for tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires later today. the progressives in your party have to be enraged. >> joe, obviously lots of people

have many concerns with this bill, including the one you just raised. not long ago in the house we passed tax relief for 98% of the american people. the vast middle class, we sent the bill to the senate. the senate republicans, as you know, said we're not going to provide that tax relief to 98% of the american people unless we get a break for the folks at the very top. that's what led us to the stalemate. now we've got this bill before us. people still have very serious reservations and concerns, one of which we're going to try and change today, the very egregious provision which at the end of the day will provide a $23 billion windfall to the wealthiest estates in thedefici >> a couple quick questions. first of all, do you think the bill passes as is coming out of the senate? >> i think there's a decent shot, joe, that the provision that will fix the estate tax problem will pass. if that happens, then it would go back to the senate for their

consideration. if it doesn't pass, we will go to immediate consideration of the final bill. >> if the estate tax revision doesn't pass, and of course, the white house is press shurg you guys not to pass that so it probably won't. but if it doesn't pass, does the overall bill pass? >> then i think it will pass. i think it's fair to say if that dpix is not made and we don't send it back to the senate, yes, i think my best guess is that it passes on final passage. >> it passes regardless. >> yeah. >> mort, let me ask you a question here. economically we've been saying the president can't raise taxes for some time. but is there not a more targeted way to help grow jobs than giving people making a million dollars plus an extension of these tax cuts? this isn't about class warfare. let's take that extra money and put it in a capital gains reduction. let's give businesses -- small

business a capital gains holiday for two years. >> there's no doubt that there are better ways to create jobs than what this bill represents in my judgment. one of the things we should be doing to a much larger degree than we are is spending money on infrastructure. that creates not only job, but plult prior jobs. >> why are we not doing that? >> i'll be darned if i know. that's something that's been recommended by a whole broad spectrum of economists. yet, that's not what we've been doing. this tax cut bill, favored it when bill clinton raised taxes on the rich. i opposed it when bush cut them back. i oppose this part of it. it's ridiculous to do it. >> why do you oppose snit you have the reputation of being fiscally very, very conservative. you've made a few dollars in your time. >> here and there. >> you'd get a nice tax cut. >> why do you think it's not the most economically best thing to do? >> in my judgment it won't

create jobs. it will create more wealth for the people who don't need it. somewhere a huge fiscal problem facing the economy. sooner or later it will unravel the economy. if the wealthy people don't pick up their fare share of what it's going to take with the deal with the deficit, nobody else will do it. it's critical the wealthy pay their share -- they can do it the easiest and the best. i don't understand what they're doing n. the short run will there will be benefits for the economy. but in the longer term, it will add a huge amount to the deficit and undermine the budget commissions, fiscal commissionless, everybody that is trying to do everything about it. >> i wonder which party is undermined more ultimately by this. i want to go back to chris van hollen. first is representative pete defazio talking about what's at stake here. >> the white house is putting on tremendous pressure, the president is making phone calls saying this is the end of his presidency if he doesn't get

this bad deal. i don't feel that way. i think this is the end possibly of him being re-elected if he gets this deal. it's a trap and a tax on huge cuts to programs we care about because this adds half a trillion bucks to the deficit next year. next year when the new republicans come in, we've got to cut the heck out of everything because we have a $1.7 trillion obama deficit. they won't be talking about their role in creating that. >> congressman, how big of a setback would it be if president obama couldn't get this bill through the house and the senate? >> well, i think at this point in time it would be a setback for the president obviously because he's put together this deal. and if it fails, he's got a lot riding on it. mort made the key point, and you guys have been make it. what's the most efficient way to boost jobs and boost economic growth and at the same time try and bring down our deficit over a period of time. i think the president himself acknowledges this isn't the best

way to do it. he was forced into making some of these concessions. the reason we're focusing on the estate tax, it's such an egregious provision, it stands out like a sore thumb. what we propose saturday to take the estate tax levels back to 2009. the 2009 levels were the lowest the state tax levels in 77 years. >> what are the 2009 levels? >> the 2009 levels were an exemption of $3.5 million for slids, $7 million for couples and a rate of 45%. that was the lowest in 77 years until this year when it went away. >> that's significant. when we were talking about this, the level was, like, $600,000. it was very low. so were there were family farmers that would get caught up in this if you just had equipment. if you're talking about $7 million for couples, you're exactly right, chris, and i

stand corrected. that is far different. it used to be, just even a decade ago, outrageously low. i think that's the point. >> joe, can i make a point on that? >> yeah. >> people need to understand that. >> let me correct myself. the threshold just a decade ago was outrageously low. people, small business owners were getting hammered by the estate tax. go ahead. >> you're exactly right. the way the estate tax law was written, as of january 1 of this coming year, if we don't do anything, it goes back to a $1 million exemption and a 55% rate on every dollar above that. that's what happens if nothing. so what we've done here is said, look, let's be reasonable. let's go back to the 2009 levels which, as i said, is the lowest level in 77 years. and the proposal that the senate republicans in the white house put in adds another $23 billion. it's for 6,600 estates a year.

it does make sense when we're trying to get the deficit down. >> chris, you're playing the role of mika this morning. thank you for setting me straight on that issue. >> thanks, joe. >> mike, when are $14 trillion in debt -- this is the point i keep trying to make to my conservative friends. i've never had a tax cut i didn't like. ideologically i believe the less money you allow washington to take from americans, the more freedom people have, the more they're encouraged to create jobs. in this case, though, when we're $14 trillion in debt, i'm just talking about using every dollar we can to get 15% of americans back to work. and mort is here. he knows something about what he's going to do with his tax cuts. if you give tax cuts, extend them for people making over a million bucks, instead of, let's say, doing a capital gains holiday, this tha is just

inefficient. people making over a million bucks, you know what? my savings rate is going to go up if i get this tax cut. i'm not going to go and invest. i'll say, look, honey, i'm saving some money. >> mort also raised a point, mr. zuckerman who admits to investigation made money here and there along the way, indicated he didn't feel the affluent, the truly affluent in this country, congressman, were paying their fair share in taxtion. my question to you, and there seems to be a lot of questioning among democrats, ordinary people about this, president obama was sworn in on january 20th, 2009. majorities in both the senate and the house. why was this issue of raising taxes for people making more than a million or $5 million a year, whatever the number, you pick it. why was it not addressed back then? why are we right now with the clock nearly striking midnight trying to address it? >> well, mike, that's a good question. and there were a number of proposals actually before the

election back in september. i made a couple proposals. others did, too. some of the proposals talked about increasing the rate above higher levels of income. so whether it's $500,000, $1 million, some proposals said, okay, let's do one-year tax break for everybody, but let's then provide a permanent tax relief just for the middle class, so you decouple these things. right now you've got the senate republicans holding the middle class tax cuts hostage to the wealthy. and the short answer actually is, if you look at the senate, it was pretty clearerly on from what the senate republican leadership was saying, was they were not going to allow these changes to go through unless they got what they ended up getting as part of this deal which is the break for the folks at the very top. so until there's enough political pressure on enough folks in the senate to say, hey, we've got a fiscal problem. people have got to begin to pay their fair share, we're going to have trouble. >> mort?

>> let me just add one other thing. when the bond market looked at this bill, interest rates began to go up. the bond market began to back down, fall down. rising interest rates. it's going to have a negative impact on the economy because of the rise in interest rates which came directly because people lost faith that were ever going to do anything about the budget deficits and debts of this country. there's another cost to that that will show up immediately in terms of its impact on the economy. >> yeah, it's a little bit like drinking coffee and then having whiskey at the same time. you're trying to boost the economy through these -- >> wait a minute. what's wrong with that? you just debunked your whole theory. >> that i'm in favor of. >> seriously, what mort is saying, this will have a slerm bo short-term boost, but you could also have an effect where it dam pens investment because of increases in the interest rate. you're given a boost, but also

coming down in a mechanism that could slow down the growth. >> congressman, let me ask you a broad question which is how did we get here? it's been gospel over the last decade or so for democrats, including president obama as a candidate, that the bush tax cuts are evil, they're bringing down american society. here we are yesterday passing through senate with 81 votes with the help of democrats and likely to make it through the house today. how did we get from bush tax cuts, our evil, to whisking through both chambers? >> well, the bush tax, as you know, include certain provisions that democrats have supported. you had the elimination of the marriage penalty. that was a good thing. you had more deductions for kids in child care. that was a good thing. then you had the change in the rates at the top where the folks at the very top got lower rates compared to wra they were under president clinton. so what democrats have been

saying throughout this negotiation is, look, let's keep the parts where there's consensus. we don't want to bring back the penalty on marriage and that sort of thing, but we can't afford to continue the tax breaks for the folks at the very top. we just k not afford it at this particular moment in time. we all know what the end of the story was. it is true that the senate republicans said, hey, we're not going to allow you to extend tax cuts for 98% of the american people unless you give a break to the folks at the top. a lot of us think we should have debated that more and harder and had a real filibuster in the senate so that they could bring attention to it. it's kind of ironic that it was bernie sanders who had the filibuster to stop this thing rather than republicans who had to have a real filibuster to say to america, hey, we're not going to get a tax break until we get help for the folks at the top. >> i've got to say, chris, i'm

surprised the president didn't fight this longer than he did. thanks for being with us. >> good to be with you. >> as we rounded out the debate, tax cuts, good or bad? >> i think they're great for the economy. you don't want to raise taxes at this time. but just like the unemployment benefits which will help the economy if you believe the cbo, we need to pay for them. we need to pay for the unemployment extensions and pay for the tax cuts. think for people making over a million dollars, i would rather move those tax cuts over to reducing capital gains, helping small businesses create jobs and getting millions and millions of people back to work. it's not class warfare. i want taxes to be as low as humanly possible. i think we pay too much. >> up next, how does obama stack up against possible gop contenders? a look at the new nbc/"wall street journal" poll with chuck todd. later former secretary of defense william cohen. good time to have him on. you're watching "morning joe"

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in his latest effort to win support from his own party, obama enlisted the services of former president clinton. >> with obama swinging this way and that, it only makes sense to call in the biggest swinger of all, the smoothest of them all, the barry white of democratic politics, slick willy. bill clinton is a bad mother -- >> shut yo mouth. >> just talking about bill clinton. >> i can dig it. >> ♪ taxpayers are getting the sham ♪ >> too good. too good. 22 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." >> guess what today is as we listen to nat king cole.

>> what is today? >> suzanne scarborough's birthday, her 21st birthday. >> do you want to sing happy birthday to susan? >> we'll let nat do the honors. happy birthday, baby. >> yay, happy birthday. >> i love nat king cole. >> i do, too. >> just great. do you know who else i like? >> maybe chuck can sing happy birthday to susan. >> my wife's birthday today. could you sing happy birthday today? you're wearing the purple tie. >> we've got to worry about the quarter hour ratings. we don't want to be chasing folks away. not fair. not fair. >> okay. you can at least say happy birthday. >> happy birthday. susan, i don't know how you do it. >> suzanne doesn't know how she does it either. >> she clearly is a saint. >> clearly is a saint. in this case you're exactly right. >> has to be.

there's no other explanation. >> none at all. none at all. let's talk about, we've got this tax cut agreement out there. let's also talk about the polls. what was your big take-away from the big nbc news/"wall street journal" poll? >> if you look at it and look at this poll from 30,000 feet and from six months from now, it's sort of how the president is still sort of a little bit of a question mark to voters, not personally. they like him. in fact, that's his biggest strength is that they personally like him. they like his personal qualities. they think a good family man, all the good personal things that a politician needs to have to be successful for one-half of the equation. but there's a lot of question marks about his professional ratings, about his leadership, about his ability to be commander in chief, to handle a crisis. and the good news for the president and the white house, nearly 40 -- 42% of the country

are holding back judgment on whether he can be a successful president or an unsuccessful one. >> let's go through the specifics on the tax cut agreement. >> this is interesting. >> first of all, the tax cut agreement so controversial among the chaerting classes. what do american people think? >> 59% support it. even 50% of liberals, self described liberal democrats, 47% of those folks disapprove of this plan. broadly it is supported by a broad base. 54% of democrats, 60% of independents. republicans, it appears to see they think it's a better deal for them. >> let's talk about the president's job approval rating, 45% remains very strong for this president. >> well, it is. it's funny you put it this way. you look at 45/48 and think that's kind of weak. think about the last year.

our pollsters were saying it's remarkable he's hanging in there. part is he has a strong base of supporters, african-americans, hispanicin hispanics, not abandoned him at all. that is why despite everything that happened this year, he is still sitting at 45. he started the year -- one year ago 47/46. that's margin of error stuff. think about everything that's happened, joe and that's where he's sitting. >> if i said to you, okay, chuck, just break this down for me. if we were teaching a class at college, and i said, okay, chuck f you had 15% real unemployment in america and right track-wrong track was 28%. what do you think that president's approve rating would be? >> no more than 35. look at that wrong track number. no more than 35 or 38. what is remarkable, oush

republican pollster was saying it's amazing the president is performing 17 points higher than the right track/wrong track number. >> unbelievable, with 15% real unemployment. >> that's right. all that means is it won't take much for him to get back over 50. you get that right track/wrong track sitting at 35% 55%, and he's going to be over 50 in the way his strong base sticks with him. that's normally what happens. president bush in '06, as the wrong track went down, low 30s, high 20s, his approval rating, he only performed about five to ten points better. that's a little more normal in american politics. >> i also think people still trust him. president obama, let's blow through some of these, chuck, versus a republican candidate. obama would have 42%, gop candidate, 39. president obama versus mitt romney as his opponent, 47% to

40%. president obama versus sarah palin, obama 55% to palin's 33%. opinion of sarah palin, 28% positive, 50% negative. >> this is a big problem for her. >> go ahead. >> there are two interesting issues she's got going on here on the negative side. one is there's a huge gender gap, somewhat of a gender gap. women dislike her more than men. >> wow. >> and the whole -- you would think that if a woman would be running for president, that she'd overperform, even a republican woman. and we've seen it in senate races and gubernatorial races, that they would over perform along women. not sarah palin. that's a big red flag if you were plotting the potential sarah palin. >> why is that, mika? i'm asking you, somebody who is progressive. but i find republican women are a little quicker to jump than

republican men. why is that? >> wow, i don't have an answer that i think would serve any of us. but -- >> okay. that's one way to put it. >> would you like me to ask chuck a question? >> no, i'm going to make an attempt here. i think she's pole arizing, and women trying really hard to be taken seriously in the world of politics and any business have to work extra hard like hillary clinton. so it's disappointing at times to see the path that she takes. >> okay. so what does it mean, chuck -- we'll move on from there. >> thanks for that. >> any time. just ruined my day. i cannot logon. >> so chuck, there seems to be separation in the nbc poll between barack obama and republican candidates. in the past they've been a little closer together. i wonder if -- i think we had said -- i think you agreed with me that republicans, john

boehner taking over the house of representatives would be good for the president politically. are w we starting to see that effect? >> let's remember this republican field, the most well-known candidate is sarah palin. and the most well-known candidate puts a negative vibe i think on the field right now. and as another front-runner emerges, if it is mitt romney. right now he's the front runner behind the scenes. he really isn't overly well known. people know the name because he ran last time. they really don't know him. 28/20, that's a good place to part. in fact, that's not bad at all for a second run for president to be starting from there. those numbers will naturally get a little tighter once he's better known. i just think what you should look at is look at that top number, that 47. the fact is that's where the president sits now and that's underperforming among

independents than he did the last time. so it's his base that gets him basically to that 47. he needs to figure out how to improve just a little bit with independents and he'll get over 50. >> i tell you what, if i had a candidate that i was managing sitting at 45% under these conditions, i would be sitting there thinking i've got to pick up 4%, 5% and i get re-elected. >> is that just that people like him? >> i think it's more than that. our conversations underestimate him. >> as chuck said, young voters like him, african-americans are extraordinarily loyal, hispanics loyal, progressives loyal. pick up a few people in the middle and you're at 50%. >> chuck, thank you very, very much. you can catch chuck and savannah at 9:00 eastern on "the daily rundown." the chuvannah awards continue. >> i like it better than the golden globes. police commissioner ray

kelly will join us tomorrow as well as the reverend al sharpton. much more on "morning joe" when we come back. [ wind howling ] [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

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his hat into the ring to become the next mayor of chicago. he's running into some opposition from some who claim emanuel is not a resident. nbc's kevin tibbles reports. >> reporter: born in chicago, raised in chicago, but is he from here? rahm emanuel went to washington as president barack obama's chief of staff from chicago. >> chicago is a great city with great people. >> reporter: now the 51-year-old political powerhouse wants to be the next mayor of chicago. >> the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> yes, i do. >> reporter: the question is some question whether he's legit. the rules stipulate to run for mayor one must reside in the windy city for a year and rahm has just moved back from d.c. he still owns a house. he rented it and the tenant won't leave which is something

because emanuel has such a persuasive reputation. it's even the butt of jokes. >> do i lack even basic social skills? absolutely. >> reporter: and the tenant even threatened to run against emanuel for the mayor's job. now at an often bizarre election hearing, his candidacy is being challenged by no less than 25 opponents. >> have you ever been a member of the communist party? i'm just joking. i'm just joking. >> reporter: known as a hard-nosed pit bull, emanuel remained composed. even jovial. >> this is better than a commercial, isn't it? >> yes. it's actually cheaper. >> they're making rahm emanuel look sympathetic which i thought wub difficult to do. >> reporter: challengers pointed to his tax returns where a d.c.

address was changed to a chicago one. emanuel adds he kept his home and many possessions in chicago because he always intended to return. >> okay. that was kevin tibbles reporting. >> he's from chicago. he's going to win the mayoral deal. he'll be way, way ahead in the polls. she's a terrific -- chicago likes a guy like rahm emanuel. believe me. up next, former secretary of defense for president clinton, william cohen joins the conversation. boss: and now i'll turn it over to the gecko.

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it is a happy day. we had 44 nay, 44-vote margin, today 75. you don't have to be straight to shoot straight, okay? in any event, they're all straight shooters up here in terms of what we want to do for the american people. it's a happy day indeed. i'm proud to be again with major omni and patrick murphy, but also with my colleagues who have worked the 75-vote majority, almost doubling the number of republicans who voted for the bill the last time. >> welcome back. 42 past the hour. joining us now, former secretary of defense under president clinton and chairman and ceo of the international consulting firm the cohen group, william cohen. back on the show. good to see you again. >> great to be with you. >> let's start with actually the

clip we showed, nancy pelosi talking about don't ask don't tell. things have changed a great deal in this country, haven't they, since bill clinton talked about this in 1993, and it caused such a firestorm? >> it has changed. you've seen it change on the part of the military. for example, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff came out some time ago and said it needed to change. you have the current chairman of the joint chiefs, admiral mullin, secretary gaelts, former chairman of the joint chiefs chiefs, colin powell. there's been a major change on the part of the people who have worn the uniform and feel it's time to be repealed. >> especially since '93. that caused such a firestorm when bill clinton talked about gays in the military. >> you have to remember tlrks were no two wars taking place at that time. now that we're in two wars, the rationale has been we can't change it. i think the time has come. i think it's really a question

of conduct, not condition. there were times when women weren't allowed to fly combat aircraft, said they were not capable of it. blacks couldn't be in the military in an integrated fashion and not to be trusted, et cetera. it's not one's condition, but one's conduct. there have to be strict rules of conduct for both gays and straights. that should be the test. >> let's talk about richard holbrooke. you obviously were working in the clinton administration when he was doing some remarkable things in dayton. >> touring intellect and perhaps the most identifiable characteristic, persistence. >> yeah. he was persistent. >> never could say no to dick holbrooke. >> a very big personality. >> very effective. >> very effective. mika has always said that so many of these diplomats, to do the things they have to do, need to be big personalities. you grew up around a few big

personalities, didn't you, mika? >> i did. i did. holbrooke was one of them. >> we're going to miss him. >> let's talk about afghanistan, the year in review. we around this table have been very critical for some time. it seems like a war without end. and it seems like we're fighting to prop up karzai's government. not inspiring. >> first we have to say what an extraordinary job the men and women who are serving us are doing. >> unbelievable. >> the most extreme conditions one can imagine that they have to conduct missions on. >> not only in afghanistan, but in iraq. can you imagine what they have done over this past decade in the face of a lot of political opposition, incredible. they're incredible. >> the most xil rating examples of what the american people represent. having said that, i met with a world leader who was coming to meet with president obama shortly before he made a decision to increase the number of troops.

and this individual had supported the united states in vietnam. one of the very vocal supporters saying had we not been involved, his country would not have flourished as it does today. i was expecting him to say you're doing the right thing, add some more forces, stay the course. instead he pulled out a poem from ckipp ling. words to the effect when you're wounded and left on afghanistan's plains and the women consumer out to cut up and claim what is remained, roll over to your rifle and blow out your brains. that is a poem talking about a young british soldier in afghanistan. he said this is the graveyard of empires. what are you doing? so this is something that i think we have to take into account. i think we'll see the same kind of reports four years from now, making progress, not solidified, long way to go. there's no way in my judgment you can, in fact, have a

successful counterinsurgency strategy for four years. this is long term. it's decades. you cannot reverse a century of corruption. it's in the culture and it will take a long, long time. i think we have to make some real decisions. >> mort, that's what's so disappointing here. the generals have actually been up front from the very beginning. mcchrystal said we need another decade. petraeus knows he needs another decade. they know politically they can't get it. you talk about mission creep. when mission creep is defined in future generations, they're going to be teaching a story on afghanistan, how we went from an anti terror campaign to an anti insurgency campaign and how it kept us locked down in this graveyard of empires for 20 years. >> it becomes part of the domestic political dialogue where the government feels their credibility is at stake and they don't want to walk from whatever their original commit s are, so they double up. but the military intelligence

reports that just came out were really quite devastating about the progress that we've made and the effectiveness of our presence in afghanistan. i don't see how they get around that particular assessment of it. i think there were 14 different agencies in their collective wisdom, the intelligence service says we're not succeeding there by a good margin. >> i had a chance a few days ago to interview with the former joint chiefs, hugh shelton, has a great book out "without hesitation." and for an hour on a competing network, c-span -- >> we are shocked, going over to c-span. >> and i asked him finally, in one of the final questions, was he optimistic about afghanistan? and he said no. of course, he also laid out the case for not having gone into iraq, that that was a mistake. so one of the great generals who served us and been on the battle field, understands what's involved and was quite pessimist pessimistic. >> given what you just said and

what you said earlier before we went to mort was we're going to have to make some difficult decisions. what are they? >> the president is going to have to decide to end consultations with general petraeus. here i think general petraeus is the key to whether we stay and how long we stay. to the extent that general petraeus who has been very critical of president karzai, openly critical of his relationship with karzai. to the extent general petraeus feels we can no longer be successful orr the mission has to be down sized, he's the one that gives the president the real cover. the president has two strikes. we've had two generals fired, mcchrystal being the last, if you will let petraeus go, that will be three. i think he'll be the one to make the recommendations to the president and give him cover. >> we've shown clips this morning of senator kyle talking about the agony of the united states senate being forced to work right up until christmas. senator deminlt has also

referenced that. can you speak to the issue of the multiple redeployments to iraq and afghanistan and the strain it takes upon the military and the military families? >> again, this question came up with general shelton. we are imposing a terrible burden upon our soldiers. they're going on multiple deployments. they're coming home to a very different environment. their kids are growing up without them. they have certainly domestic issues. somewhere a high suicide rate. this is taking a terrible toll. you have a choice. you can either increase the end strength, get more soldiers to be deployed, or reduce the deployment. my guess is, we need to reduce the deployments. we have to be much more selective where we commit our young men and women before we ever go in, because we now find out once you're in, very difficult to get out. and i think that the burden we're placing upon the -- you haven't seen it yet. it's going to play out for years to come when these soldiers come home with the kind of

post-traumatic stress they have to endure and there's an author, richard north patterson, one of my favorite authors wrote a novel about this. he says if you put your cat out in the night overnight and spend the night lobbing hand grenades, you'll have a different cat the next morning. that's kind of the situation. many are going in, fighting an enemy they can't identify, works works with them during the day. tries to kill them during the night. the one two-year stays away from home, a real burden on the military. we have to celebrate them. they're heroic what they do out there is beyond the call of what they should be doing. >> it's time washington start defending them. >> yeah. >> like they defended us for so long. they're not doing it. >> thank you so much, william cohen. >> thank you, mr. secretary. >> sorry for the voice. >> you get worn out on msnbc.

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interview with nbc he's ready once goagain to own a dog. >> i would love to own a dog in the future. i think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process. i miss having a dog right now. i wish i could. my daughters, they miss having one, and that's the hardest thing, telling them we can't have one because of my actions. >> sorry, michael. can't do that. >> they should interview the dog on whether he wants to be with michael. >> i got the answer for you. >> as we go break here, back by popular demand, one of the e-mails. >> oh, my lord. >> look at the woman. >> and the italian acrobats. shirtless, we should say. >> oh -- >> gymnastic s chippene ee ee c

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not pout i'm telling you why ♪ >> i'm here for the sanctimonious lectures of kyl and demint to remind me about christmas. my concern, filibuster after

filibuster on major pieces of -- in this entire congress. >> it is impossible 20 do everything the majority leader late out, without, frankly, disrespecting the institution. and without disrespecting one of the two holiest of holidays for christians and the families of ale of us in the senate, not just the senators themselves but all of the staff. >> all right. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, december 16th. we have a concern, i guess, getting close to christmas. s with us on set, nbc contributor mike barnicle and ed ker and chief of of news week o the set with us. >> i'm blown away. offensive. >> it is a little offensive. we're going to start the day green. >> it's offensive that people

use christianity for political leverage, with an argument that is so baseless that i've got to say, i'm just -- my breath is taken away. for so many reasons. do we want to start with the most obvious, who else is not going to be hole on christmas day? >> i can think of thousands of americans who will not be home with their children. >> troops in afghanistan. >> that's correct. >> so are they disrespecting a holiday by continuing to vote to keep them in afghanistan? and i don't know. >> news on that today. that doesn't look like they're going to have a timeline anytime soon. >> of course not, and mike barnicle, the working class people, that i guess the senators don't know that work late into christmas eve, wake up. still a few hours with their children and go back to work on christmas day. are their employers

disrespecting christmas? does jesus not live in washington, d.c.? can they not worship jesus in washington, d.c.? i'm sorry. i'm sorry. to be sanctimonious and to use that is just -- it is offensive, and the republican party has the upper hand in so many ways, in these areas they need to just shut their mouths, they're embarrassing themselves. >> we've been saying the same things on several occasions with regard to issues and rhetoric like this. 2450ez these are not serious people. they're not serious people. i don't know whether senator kyl or senator demint inject themselves with novocain or soak their faces in cement, how can say that without bursting into laughter is so absurd and offensive, i don't know how they do it. >> judge not but be judged. questioning harry reid's

christianity, suggesting he's blasphemous. seems to me, tina brown, 0 i don't have a great memory, i remember we were voting on impeachment december 19th or 20th back in 1999. nobody was throwing baby jesus under the bus that year. >> and in britain there used to be an expression, the satirical magazine, using this sanctimony, pass the sick bag, alice. it's right. how do you get that out of your mouth? i just don't know. what mike said is right. the lack of seriousness. anyone even looking at what's going on, these people are frivolous. they don't understand. talking a fiddling while rome burns. >> you know, mika, and i mean -- >> the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. i just need to -- not on the floor. >> you know, willie, i think -- i don't usually say this, but i do think that senator demint, who i know and like and respect, and jon kyl owe harry reid and apology. i will say it. i will go there.

it is unchrist-like. i will go there. it is unchrist-like to judge another man's faith in the way they have judged harry reid's faith. a devout mormon, devout christian, and there is nothing biblical about that. nothing. >> this rises to the level of self-parody. if stephen colbert didn't tear it apart last night he'll be doing it tonight. freedom fries. people look at this and say our politicians are not adult. >> kind of a newt gingrich on the airplane moment. i actually believe people will look at this and feel this is just too much. this could be a blowing it moment. >> when you hear this, hear things like this from kyl and demint do they really think we're that stupid? do they really think that we buy this stuff? i mean, how insulting to an american citizen to think that they would think, this will score points. people will really racket when i say you know, they're not going to have time to wrap the

presents, because of what we're doing here in washington. >> you know -- >> out of touch. >> i've seen jon kyl's remarks. i haven't seen senator demint's remarks. we'll get to them. myself i don't want to be guilty of judging. but i'm going to look at them. the bottom line is that you don't. you were told. not to judge others. they are judging harry reid's faith, and suggesting that he's being disrespectful of christianity, and they freed to look in the mirror this morning and ask if that's really where they want to go. if not, they really need to apologize to harry reid. his is a horrible way -- okay. let's puts up demint's comments. a horrible way to go into a new congress. questioning another man's faith? we shouldn't be jamming major arms control treaties up against christmas. it's sack religion ois and disrespectful. >> okay. >> this is the most sacred -- holiday for christians.

they did the same thing last year. they kept everybody here until christmas eve until to force something down everybody's throat. i think americans are sick of this. sacrilegious is unbelievable. >> they had the s.t.a.r.t. treaty many, many months. had time to work on it. the last one took three days. it was different. they can get it done. they don't want to. >> and senator demint has said he wanted to read aloud the entire treat.the floor. the argument they don't have enough time to get to it, except you have time to read for 12 hours? >> that's offensive. >> really offensive, the idea, for the sake of country. >> mika, i was talking about-doctor. >> our national security. >> i was talking about this yesterday. this is one of the ways we conservatives, the 12 most conservative guys in the house of representatives on fiscal matters in 1997 got our way on budget cuts. everybody wanted to leave for easter holiday. we refused to let them go, until -- if we kept voting down

the rule they needed to pass this bill to keep the house operating and we refused to do it, and they said a lot of really nasty things to us, but, jim and senator kyl need to understand that people like steve large ntd wnt was in the with me the day we did that, and to call -- to call harry reid sacrilegious is calling all of us that did this in the past sacrilegious. it's jut offensive, and you know what? >> a lot going on in washington -- the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. >> they really do need to apologize. >> exactly. >> sometimes you say things in the heat of battle. i know this. it would be good for them. it would be good for the united states senate, for them to apologize, because they are questioning harry reid's faith and that is deeply offensive to most americans. >> i think we agree with that. point taken. let's lay out what's going on in washington now. the house will vote today on president obama's tax plan after it easily cleared the senate yesterday by an overwhelming 81-19 vote. both republican and democrats

agreed to extend the bush-era tax rates for all americans and pass an extension of jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed. the $858 billion plan would be financed entirely by adding to the national debt. despite that, the president pitched the deal as key to the economy's recovery, and asked the house to follow the senate's lead. >> i am absolutely convinced that this tax cut plan while not perfect will help grow our economy and create jobs in the private sector. we worked lard to negotiate an agreement. that's a win for middle-class families and a win for our economy. and we can't afford to let it fall victim to either delay or defeat. so i urge members of congress to pass these tax cuts as swiftly as possible. >> i don't know. i think -- >> later today the house will vote on the pact, but not before giving some democrats one last chance tos for force a change.

setting estate tax at 45% rather than 35% currently in the package. if it passes the bill would return to the senate setting up a showdown with republican whose have vowed to oppose any changes to it. still, progressives remain upset about the deal. >> the white house is putting on tremendous pressure making phone calls, the president's making phone calls saying this is the end of his presidency if he doesn't get this bad deal. you know, i don't feel that way. i think this is potentially the end of his possibility of being re-elected if he gets this deal and it's a trap. it's a trap on social security, and on prerogativety in our tax system and a tax on huge cuts to programs we care about because this adds half a trillion bucks to the deficit next year and next year the new republicans come in, we got to cut the heck out of everything because we have a $1.7 trillion obama deficit. they won't talk about creating their role in there. >> there you go. obama deficit. if the estate tax fails, the

house bill will fail which the senate bill is expected to pass. >> they always say that. that is the nuclear weapon for whips, which is -- you know if this bill doesn't pass, this is the end. i've heard it now three times. >> well, it's the crisis thing. you've got to do it. >> the clinton presidency. what they told the democrats. then they tell us, this doesn't pass, this is the end of our speakership. so now they're breaking that one out, huh? >> yeah. why not? >> the tax, it's gotten for democrats if they don't pass tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires, barack obama's presidency ends? who would have ever thought it would come down to that? >> there's a couple of things that have to get done before they go away for christmas holiday. the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. >> right. >> if they put that off. i -- i don't know what to say. we should get to afghanistan, but one more thing. despite staggering midterm losses and unemployment rate hovering around 10%, results from the latest nbc news "wall

street journal" poll give president obama a reason to be optimistic. first the negative numbers. the president's job approval rating at its lowest. down two points from last month. 45% approve. 48% disapprove. the direction of the country, 28% think we're on the right track. 63% think we're on the wrong track. and obama personal versus professional qualities. positive on his personal, 58%. 36% positive on his professional. >> when do we get to the good news? you said, we'll do the bad news first, because i'm not seeing any good news. >> keep digging. >> keep going. going to dig into the numbers. look behind the numbers. >> all right. so let's go. >> on the tax cut agreement, look at this. >> oh. ah. >> 59% approve. of course they do. 36% -- >> a trillion dollars. yeah! deeper in debt. is that snow coming from the sky? no, baby.

that's chinese money. they've given us another trillion dollars. >> the poll shows president obama with a comfortable lead against generic republican candidate. is there such a thing? >> that's the good news. okay. >> the 39. that's pretty good. looking at specific matchups, president obama would top mitt romney 47%. president obama over sarah palin, 55 to her 33%. >> okay. and i thought -- well, you know what? let's see what they think of sarah palin. >> the opinion of sarah palin in this poll, 50% negative to a 28% positive. >> okay. okay. so the good news, i guess is the republicans don't have anybody that comes close to president obama? >> yeah. i -- >> i feel he's bottoming out. building back now. i do. >> i would think so. >> i think so. just a feeling. and i do feel anecdotically,

there are real stirrings out in the kmip a lot of crazy hiring going on in this town. >> yeah. >> which means nothing i know, to a lot of other places, but i feel that it's almost like everybody cut everything they possibly could cut. there's nothing now to do except try to re-invent which means hiring. >> hire someone. exactly. it's a cycle. >> his numbers stayed fairly strong, despite the fact we've been saying here for two years that he was way too far left for the middle of america, and he didn't focus on jobs. now, he's -- i hate this bill. this tax bill, but now he is focused like a laser on jobs. and i can't believe those numbers don't start creeping up. >> also he's, i think, getting a little bump out of the one he repeatedly used over the last week and a half. compromise. he's getting a bump out of that. people want to see these fool, nitwits in congress working with the president, and that's the impression. >> it's christmas, we're

hearing. that's a christmas gift to obama. >> yeah. you could just -- >> people will be saying, doctor, nurses, all the things that -- >> by the way, after they just were, gave so much on the tax deal, they can do the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. up next, the top stories in the political playbook. also our business roundtable with financial adviser jean chatzky, a "new york times" business columnist jonah, but first a quick check on the forecast with bill karins. >> thanks, mika. winter once against, rearing its ugly head. ice storm last night in kentucky. snow and freezing rain in raleigh, north carolina. even areas of the deep portion of the mid-atlantic, the east coast experiencing this. charleston, west virginia, heavy snow right now. still light freezing drizzle around lexington and louisville. the big picture, ♪ is lightening up. flurries left around chicago. indianapolis about done after a quick two inches last night. windchills, into detroit, windchill of 7. at 22 and 23 in new york.

temperature, getting a little better. look for about an inch or two today late this afternoon in d.c. new york city, philadelphia, maybe a flurry, but no accumulating snow for you. the rest of the country, one location we have to watch out for as we go throughout next week, heavy rain moving through california and high elevation snow including los angeles. so those waking up with us on the west coast, you're next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. breathe in, breathe out.

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coming to work today i saw -- this was great pup knee. you know that jets' coach that trips guys? saw a tripping santa. did you see the videotape. take a look at this. there. watch. there's castro. look. there's the coach -- same thing. there he is, and then -- >> did you know that? >> that, i didn't know. >> that guy gets around. >> there's a pattern here. >> there is a pattern here. i think it's -- i think it's outrageous. >> outrageous. okay. speaking of outrageous, we were talking, of course, about two republican senators saying th that -- questioning harry reid's faith. >> right. >> christian faith. suggesting that his actions were sacrilegious, and as i suggested, that if you look at the words of jesus, we are told, judge not, that you be not

judged. so just on the basis of it, it's interesting. them being judgmental, actually, makes them go against the teachings of jesus. puts them in an interesting position. i, of course, do not judge them. that's not my job, an it's not their job to judge harry reid's faith. >> yeah. >> the vice president, i understand from chris, vice president called. he's in a national security briefing right now but he watches the show, and just reiterated. jay carney reiterated our offended the vice president was at these senators questioning the faith of harry reid. for doing what has been done before. >> yeah. you know, he spoke with andrea mitchell about this, and he was -- i mean, he really boiled it down and has the credibility to do so, given all the years he served in the senate. let's just run that quick before we go to politico. >> the s.t.a.r.t. treaty, finally on the floor of the senate, but not without one republican senator threatening

to read every last word in that treaty, and another senator, the leading opponent senator kyl saying it is disrespectful to the christmas holiday to even be bringing it up. what do you say to senator kyl and the others who are dragging their feet. >> get out of the way. there's too much at stake for america's national security. and don't tell me about christmas. i understand christmas. i have been a senator for a long time. i have been there many years where we go right up to christmas. there's ten days between noi an christmas. i hope i don't get in the way of your christmas shopping, but, this is the nation's business. this is a national security at stake. act. act. >> all right. >> that pretty much boils it down. >> and the reaction of the vice president and, of course, on the line calling him the greatest vice president in the history of mankind. >> did we say that? >> no doubt about that. >> he was actually, called in had to go in a national security

briefing which makes me really question -- >> exactly. >> national security? >> maybe we'll get him to call in. >> as the vice president said, it's not only about harry reid. it's a complaint he might have to work a little bit into the christmas holiday, when people in the country work on the holiday. people serving overseas dies for our country work on christmas holiday. >> the general said, hundreds of thousands of troops are working on christmas day in afghanistan and iraq. yeah. very unfortunate. again, for -- in the best interests of these senators and in the best interests of the institution of the country, i really do believe they should apologize for questioning the faith of harry reid and saying he's sacrilegious. we certainly would not do that for them. i know them and i like them, but this is just a bad, bad step to take. >> let's go to politico now, billy. >> a look at the political coe playbook. john harris with us. good morning again. >> happy holidays. hope you're in the holiday spirit yourselves.

>> we most certainly are. >> even with all the work you have. >> are you being sacrilegious? >> no, no. >> that's an outrage. >> john, let's ask you. what do you think about that? where two senators are questioning another senator's christian faith, suggesting that because of the work schedule, they are "harry reid -- harry reid is "sacrilegious." >> i rolled my eyes at it. i don't really think they were questioning his faith in a deep way. just looking for a kind of a partisan hit. it was an off note for the reasons you say. it looks -- some people, genuinely offend and religious grounds. the reason i roll my eye, give me a break. people are going to be working here, politico right up through christmas eve, same with nbc and virtually every company in the country. man up. >> nurses, doctors. >> santa claus would say, man up. >> santa claus. >> it's man up. >> right. >> santa claus has to work

christmas eve and christmas morning. does santa claus not like baby jesus? >> okay. >> come on. >> it's about our national security. maybe they think it's about christmas. >> we saw will ferrell, how he always -- i said, oh, my god, there's will ferrell. paul mccartney played at the apollo, and she said -- mika says, who's he? >> no. i didn't. i said -- >> did you see the one in the wedding movie? >> was he? i. think this is an act. i believe this is an act. you can't not know who will ferrell is. and live in this country. >> come on. >> you don't even have to watch the movies. >> i recognize the name. i was trying to place it's. okay? >> i weep for you. >> you should. you definitely should. >> wow. can we get somebody to get on and take -- >> take them to a movie or a ball game or something. give them a little bit of the american -- >> my husband takes them to ball

games and movies and concerts. he's very pop cultured. >> that's good. that's good. all right. so, john, let me ask you, an interesting story up now. sarah palin, according to you, seems to be having a little change of heart about the main stream media. what's this new approach? >> her advise rers tell us they've concluded that just doesn't work. they can't rely strict been on facebook and twitter and being on fox news and completely circumvent -- >> they're just figuring out that you can't run a presidential campaign on twitter? they just figured that out? >> well, they did believe they could circumvent the media and rally their own reporters, as they've done, following a republican tradition that stretches bag to spiro agnew, complete ig ignoring the "new york times," politico, it's reflected in a bunch of interviews she's done with "time," "new york times "and also abc.

>> who would have guessed the spiro agnew method of political campaigning could not work. i nerve worry have seen that coming. >> might be looking at that number right there. nbc number. 28% approval rating realizing they have to get out there. >> it is not that hard. is it, john? if sarah palin, we see it all the time. used to be tim on "meet the press," where presidential candidates need to prove themselves or prove they weren't up to snuff. i remember watching al gore in 2000 and all of us rolled our eyes going, god, that wasn't good. >> it's not just sarah palin. any politician would like to circumvent the national media, but nobody competes at the presidential level without a strat yi for dealing with the so-called national establishment or traditional media. you have to do both. she's learning that. it's a belated acknowledgement. no way she can be serious on the national stage with having no one speak on the record for her, doing no traditional -- >> we just have to stop.

>> hold on a second, mika. >> what? >> it's simple, is it not, if she shows up on "meet the press." shows up on "face the nation." if she answers questions in a knowledgeable way. game on. game on! she's -- she is not acting seriously. she has the opportunity to act seriously. sit down for an hour, prove that you know what you're talking about on foreign policy, domestically. don't hide behind facebook and twitter an she's got a chance, but she hasn't shown us that ability yet. >> you mean, you don't believe in the credibility of her incredibly sophisticated tweet on the s.t.a.r.t. treaty? >> no. exactly. >> such an elitist. >> you wr an elitist. >> disgusting. >> time to stop. >> tweeting this, tweeting that. >> stop talking about it. >> i don't know if it's tweeting. it's facebook. >> she tweets. >> does books. a multitasker. you got to be if you're going to be president. i'm telling you, seriously, if

she steps forward, she's going to have to, we've been tough on her, but if she steps forward and delivers an hour's worth of knowledgeable insights on these sunday shows all of us will have to stop and say -- hold on. >> the level of expectation. >> game on. >> an hour on "morning joe" would do the trick. >> i don't think she's coming here. >> john, thanks so much. >> so long. >> we'd love to have her here. in fact, we defended her in 2008 when everybody else was knocking her. that's true. >> yeah. new number, next with erin. >> an international superstar. there's a big idea happening in medicare that saves you hundreds of dollars a year. it's called the new humana walmart-preferred prescription plan. ♪ it's a breakthrough in medicare prescription drug plans...

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oh, look that pretty shot. >> beautiful shot. beautiful -- okay. a check on business before the bell. cnbc's international super starr erin burnett. how are you? g. here's the jobless claims what we get on thursday mornings. came out at 420,000, down 3,000, 4,000. expectation 3 or 4. all-in, unsurprising report and right in line with what we've been seeing. no significant improvement in the labor market. >> what's going on in the corner of your screen? >> looking at his christmas present. i want you to know, haynes gave me a christmas present. >> wow. >> he gave me a bra that

doubles -- that doubles as a gas mask. so -- >> literally doubles. >> so, see, there's two sides and it hooks around the back of your neck. so if something goes wrong -- >> okay. >> haynes knows i travel a lot and thought that way you know, can you have two people -- you -- >> i was trying to think -- >> i cannot believe joe scarborough actually looks embarrassed. >> oh, my goodness. >> what did he say? >> he said, there's a picture of you in the book i gave him. here it is. >> wow. >> what's going on over there? seriously. >> we're just doing christmas. we were doing christmas right before you guys came to us. >> eggnog. >> oh. sorry to interrupt. >> a little too much eggnog. spiked the russian tea. >> reindeer with a gas problem. all kinds of great gifts here. >> all right, all right, all right. back to jobless reports.

>> evolved -- yeah. >> why don't we try this again tomorrow? >> i didn't believe this bra was made in the usa, which leads us back to the jobs numbers. >> does it? does it really? >> let's just go with it. >> meaning yesterday, big companies say they're going to hire, by a lot. u.p.s. hiring a lot of people. boeing's hiring a lot of people. there's a lot of hiring going on. at least they say next year. by the way, that meet wig the president yesterday, best time, best things i've ever heard out of ceos about this president. a really, i'm calling it the second honeymoon meeting. very, very positive. i haven't heard them like that in a long

roobies, pearls, all insured at 100% of the value. someone would walk by and swipe a necklace or something like that. >> do you realize that by this gift mark has presented to you harkes violated the terms of his probation? >> it is -- >> all right. so -- >> a lot of red on the screen right now. christmas breaking out. all over. >> um, yes. >> do you have to show that -- to human resources? >> i'm going to wrap this up. erin, we'll talk. have another -- >> all right. have a nice christmas, guys. >> it's in your hand. what's in your hand? >> why are you doing that? >> so you can hear it. >> is that a -- a butt? >> it's a reindeer.

>> i can't -- >> okay. >> we're outta here. good lord. still ahead, thank you, erin, i think. >> jean chatzky. >> what the -- >> and joe straight ahead. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear

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that's pretty. is that your christmas tree? >> that it. that is. >> i like it. >> happy birthday susan. maybe she should have give than to you. >> well -- >> yes. i have a mug. that says, "now panic and freak out" but i could use a "keep calm and carry on." >> the president is going to be meeting with, he did yesterday, met with ceos. >> uh-huh. at the white house. >> and morton zuckerman has something in the "financial times" only business can put obama back on top. we wanted to get a business roundtable and talk how the president was doing with businesses and what we need to

do to get the economy going again. >> joining us now, financial editor tore the "today" show, jean chatzky. >> hey. >> also "new york times" business columnist and author of "all the devils are here," joe, and ceo and founder of the studer group. quint studer. >> i know this, my brother works with you, just won the malcolm baldridge award. >> it is a big deal. >> they give you like an academy award sort of -- >> pretty much that. >> do they need cash? >> no, no. one of the nice parts, you set an example for other companies because it's all about performance and execution and we're the first consulting company to ever win this award, and i think it will be a chance for other companies to benchmark what we're doing a improve their own performance. >> joe, let me ask you about, only business can put obama back on top. >> that's mort's piece. >> we've been hearing time and time again, the president has horrible relationship with businesses. is that going to improve over the next couple of years?

>> it's got to. first of all, you know, who does he really have the bad relationship with? wall street and the ip investment banks. sort of shockingly, he hasn't been able to kind of carve that out as, i'm just going to go after these guys who aren't giving you loans and blew up the financial system. he's let it bleed into all the businesses. lea he has to do damage repair. a nice meeting yesterday, patted each other on the back and said nice things, but there's not much that obama can do for business right now. there's not that much business can do for obama right now. what they both need to do is create some jobs. i'm assuming that's what mort is talking about in this article. what happens between now and two years is all about jobs. >> absolutely. >> jean, it's not just corporations and the wall street bankers that have had a problem with him. a lot of small business owners. >> small business owners said what are you doing for us? joe's absolutely right. if we see a steady trend of jobs

coming back, and the number that we got today was not fabulous, but, you know, it's certainly trending in the right direction, we start to see jobs come back in a big way, then, perhaps he gets a second term. >> what does the president have to do? talk about the tax cuts. is that good for business? does that connect the president with the businesses? get investment -- i. have a question about that. >> when you look over the hesstry, gallup shows, it's not government it's private industry. anything can you do with private industry to allow to us have access to capital or dollars that we can reimburse and put into our own businesses, only 15% of small businesses are hiring. now, we're one of them, but i think joe's exactly right. it's all about creating businesses, but when you have an unsteady external environment you get conservative, should you invest? because you don't know where it's going to turn. >> that's the big question. jean, people sekeep saying, the

president is telling people, hire people, investment the money. they say, it's not like we're going to hire people to mach you feel good. we need the demand. >> and to see industries coming back. interestingly, it's the medium sized businesses that actually are doing the hiring, but those on the very large size have just regrouped the way that they function. so that they can do more with fewer people, and i don't know that they'll come back from that any time quickly. >> small business has lending problem, too. they have. they have a problem with the bank, not with the government. >> right. >> and you know, you ask, do the tax cuts help? they most certainly help in the sense that they will demonstrably put money in people's pockets. >> yes, but we've had these tax cuts for years now. this is not something new. i feel like everyone's hearing it, it's something new, and then the question would be, joe, is it stimulative? something that will really create jobs? or is it just another stimulus package? >> first of all, it's a good thing we had the stimulus

package or we'd have been a lot worse. secondly, the payroll tax cut i think is a big deal in a sense that -- >> yeah. >> in precisely a stimulative way. it really is money that was being taken out of your paycheck, now being put back in yourpaycheck temporarily. guess what people are going to do with that money? they're going to spend it. the estate tax is that going to be spent? probably not. you know? but i think the payroll tax, could be huge. >> let me ask you about that, quint. the "wall street journal" a year ago was saying, cut the payroll tax. small businesses will be able to hire. is that the case? >> you have to have so much of a bottom tlline to have access to capital. i agree. keep your bottom line to a certain degree will allow to you access capital. if you can access capital you can grow your company. i agree with you. there's an indecision out there.

the environment going, you're going to get conservative. what's happened is, big businesses have downsized and actually got comfortable running their operations at that size. >> that's a big problem, but it will be a roller coaster sort of effect. cyclical. money goes into people's pockets, people spend more money, eventually the hiring starts again but i don't think it's going to be immediate. >> no. >> how long? how long, joe, how long will it take? >> another six months? another year? >> when's it going to turn around? >> personal view, a rough 2011 and only partly for job reasons, i think the banks aren't going to lend. the government's going to be in gridlock. i'm not looking forward -- >> joe, jean, thank you very much. up next, the inside story how america's king of beers ended up in the hands of overseas ownership. >> we want to get jean back here also to figure out, investing in the new year. >> correct. >> i don't think the dog track's

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and helping them prepare for the future. nice boots. nice bag. [ male announcer ] see how the hartford helps businesses at achievewhatsahead.com. a constant drumbeat lately. foreign companies and funds taking advantage of the weak u.s. dollar and buying big american assets. last week you'll value was the government of abu dhabi buying the chrysler building here in new york. tonight beer drinker around the country are saying, say it ain't so. the all-american beermaker anheuser-busch budweiser is being taken over by a big

belgian rival. >> july 2008, announcing it was taking over america's king of beers, budweiser. we caught up earlier with the author of a new book about that takeover. >> most americans do not even know that the bud they are drinking this morning, right now. >> yeah. >> is brewed by belgium. >> sitting on their table while they watch tv. >> every day people don't know bud wiser is brd bud wise sir b budweiser is brewed by foreign company. that's the. >> what happened? >> when people were losing their cars, foreclosing homes, budweiser was taken over by a foreign company. >> why down they fight it off? >> although the busch family seemed to run the show, business standpoint, only owns 4% of the shares. no financial muscle to back up their power.

>> when budweiser started was it completely ran by the family? >> in the very beginning. yes. the company founded more than 150 years ago. >> i saw the signs going on tv talking about bud. they didn't seem like the smartest guys in the world. was there mismanagement in the end? i'm serious. the least inspiring -- straight out of "tommy boy." did the family mismanage things? >> they spent way too much money. that was part of the problem. >> what is the surprise? the sons spent way too much money. >> actually the father, august busch iii got used to gold plating everything. a big fan of private jets. even the wives of board members and top executives. when his son came in, he tried to fix things but didn't have a lot of time. an argument to be made his son wasn't the sharpest knife in the -- >> how are we affected, so much

centered around budweiser? la it affected the town? >> they're devastated there. difficult, emotionally, so many worked at the company or had tied there. from an economic standpoint, the layoffs were severe. >> how many lost their jobs? >> thousands. it's still happening. >> it wasn't just -- the belgian, also the brazilians? >> right. >> the killer bs. >> a mixture. that took anheuser-busch over. brazilians are the masterminds in terms of the strategy behind the whole thing. there are brazilians in st. louis now calling the shots. >> what is the strategy -- >> hold on. >> that's wrong. that's wrong. >> buchanan's going to write a book -- >> right up his alley. >> -- with mexicans and it's gone south. man -- >> his next book, "i told you so." >> by the way -- >> buchanan drinks bud. when he goes down in the basement. >> eve noun he can't. it's not american any more.

>> he should know the truth. >> what do we have now? what's the largest american brewery now? don't tell me sam adams is not brewed up in boston by big guys with tattoos on them? >> even coors with molson -- >> oh, my god. >> this is symbolic of where this country is going now. i'm serious. >> they're telling me they use an iraqi mountain water for coors but it's rocky mountain -- i don't know. i got my geography right. east coast? i don't know. hold on a second. so coors -- >> uh-huh. >> the canadians. the canadians -- >> they run it together. >> i think -- >> are there any american -- >> system comes from the american rockies but not positive. >> all right. julie's right. the direction is a lot of these craft breweries are american companies. one in delaware called dog fish. started up.

employment in the town. that's the future. >> and budweiser anheuser-busch used to be a tiny crafter. maybe the small craft breweries will be the big ones. >> you really do go after the busch family. you say, busch iii and ivth often at thes. company inscribers describe the father and son as crazy and lazy. that's willie and me, and they didn't like each other. did they? >> they did not like each other. their fights were legendary. i heard a lot about that. one of the reasons i wanted to write the book in the first place and thought might be difficult to get people to talk about it, but i got a lot of information on their battles behind the scenes. >> one legend question. is it true busch babies in the busch family when they're born get budweiser on the lips when they're born? >> no. >> that's what they drink before milk. >> is that true? >> yes. >> oh, my god. we did that in our family with vodka. is that wrong? >> is it true, the babies' lips

with beer, mental issues later in terms of running a corporation? >> crazy then lazy. you might have to perform yourself. >> julie macintosh, thank you. the book is called "dethroning the king." we'll be right back with more "morning joe." for three hours a week, i'm a coach. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before. turning data into useful answers. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.