at midnight. i'm always on the youngturks.com, you can see that as well, and "hardball" srts right now. it's the economy, america. let's play "hardball." good evening. ite crist matthews, up in new york city. leading off tonight, the president's speech. what i'm telling you had to be held for release until late this afternoon. today i was at the presidential briefing with president obama at the without to preview the state of the union address which beginning two hours from now. the main themes, number one the president will push a significant aggressive agenda on education, basic research and development and infrastructure spending, on things like highways, bridges, and also long-term deficit reduction.

and on job crazy, both public and private investment. the president will encourage congress to make decisions that reflects what he calls smart spend. some liberals in the party are nervous that the president is courting the political center at the expense of the party's progressive base. are they right to worry? we'll see. when president obama talks about winning the future, he'll also be thinking about winning in 2012, and facing a resurgent republican party dedicated to one thing, stopping him in his tracks. what's at stake for the president tonight? and michele bachmann bigfooting paul ryan's response with her join line response. this is a woman who just told iowa republicans i'll never fogts this bun, that the founding fathers eradicated slavery. ry remember that?

. we didn't have a civil war, didn't need one, they godry of it way back then. this is crazy talk, and she's their spokesman. finally congressional prom night, sitting together in pairs. well, let's face it, they'll be sitting together, they won't be standing toe on an issue. on a program note, i'll join rachel maddow, eugene shultz, and lawrence o'donnell for live coverage of the speech. we start with the robert gibbs at the white house, press secretary. i didn't expect to start with this tonight, but this development is incredible. the spokesman for the ahead party, the spokeswoman in this kay, michele bachmann is starting to go against the president tonight. she began this week by saying that slavery was eradicated by the founding fathers, we never had the civil war, i don't know what she's talking about. here it is. i want to show you this, robert.

maybe i've been privileged not to hear this. >> we know there was slavery that was still tolerated when the nation began. we know that was an evil, and it was a scourge, a blot, a stain upon our history, but we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the united states. i think it is high time that we recognize the contribution of our forebearers who worked tirelessly, men like john quincy adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country. >> this is beyond any discussion i've ever had. here's a woman who reports -- purports to be a member of the republican party, which was formed in the 1850s to fight the expansion of slavery into the territories saying there was no slavery by then, it was all

eradicated by the founding fathers. what is it in the dna of these tea party leaders -- i think the regular tea party includes some normally people. what is it in the dna of the senior people that the founding fathers were god-like, they didn't have slaves, and here they are ignoring our own history. robert, this will be the retort from this person. your thoughts. >> well -- >> i want an official white house comment on the most massive example of american history ignorance i have come across in a long time. well, look, maybe this is a good time for the president to talk about education reform, and the steps that we need to take to ensure that we have the workforce that meets the challenges that we have and the jobs of tomorrow. how is that? was that a pretty good segue? >> pretty good. we need education. of course, i think people who

lead the country should go on celebrity jeopardy at least once to prove they know american history. this is the president. half a century ago. when the soviet beats us into space, we had no idea how we would beat them to the moon. nasa didn't even exist. after investing in better research and education, we didn't just surface the soviets. we unlaeshed a wave of innovation. i speak to you, robert, as a person who went to college on national defense education act loan money, a lot of us did because of sputnik. >> i think what the president will do, and you hear it in that excerpt, address and set forth the great challenges that we have, but time after time, whether it was lincoln in building -- starting to build a railroad, and addressing our land grant colleges, even as he fought the civil war, whether it was kennedy addressing the

soviet space challenge, we have always risen to meet those challenges. the president will share an optimistic tone about how he knows and he believes that this country will meet those challenges again by investing in research and develop, investing in innovation and education reform, ensuring that the jobs that are created in this world are not just in china or in india, but they're created here. >> is this a more important part of the speech tonight than what we're hearing about a spending freeze? isms i think they go part and parcel. look, we are going to have to make some changes in the amount of money that government spends. people agree on that. while we do that, the money that is spent we should prioritize. let's reform government, let's not fund wasteful programs and projects. let's work on education reform. let's work on technology, research and development,

research and innovation and put people back to work. >> this is what clinton called his future budget going into the white house, and didn't go ahead with because of the fears of higher interest. how are we liberated from those concerns this time around so a democratic president can do what bill clinton set out to do? >> well, look, obviously there are kirschs in the economic situations that the two countries face, or the two presidents faced, but what we're going to have to do is take seriously the amount of money that we're spending that we don't have, that creates our deficits, that create or debts, and we'll have to prioritize what we are spending our money on. i think that's the discussion that the president wants to start tonight, and, you know, chris, i think the president believes it is important that members of each party are sitting together tonight. the truest test, though, will be whether or not we can -- not just whether we can sit together tonight, but can we work

together tomorrow. that's the truest test, and i think that's what the president will challenge both parties to do. >> thank you very much, robert gibbs. with us now senator chuck schumer, democrat of new york. senator schumer, i know you're a big believer in rapid rail, and you want to see this country moved ahead and catch up in having a rapid rail is that as well as everything else. do you think this will grab the interests of proprogressives like you? >> i think this is not just going to appeal to progressives, but to americans. this is about the future. you know, we believe in the american dream, which says that you'll do better ten years from now and your kids will do even better than you. in the last few years people have begun to doubt it. this speech says the american dream is alive and well. we are cutting back on waste, no question about it, and we're not going to spend like maybe done

in the past 20 or 30 years, but we are going to invest in things that makes sure your kids have a better life than you. that's what the american people want. i don't think they said a dour, sour, everything is wrong message. >> you'll be sitting with tom coburn of oklahoma. what could you cook up that actually you could agree on as you date tonight? >> we have, we have just done two things. we did the 9/11 bill. coburn was blocking it, i sat in the room and we got that done, and a few years ago -- this is relevant to the tragedy in arizona, a priest was killed by a mentally ill man, who had gotten a gun, and we worked together to tighten up the law. so there are lots of things. my guess is as members sit next to members, you might even find a few ideas being talked tonight that would germinate into legislation, so it is symbolic, but symbols have a way of influencing reality.

>> a guy who was bipolar called me up after the show and said he could get a gun. i'm not sure that's tight enough. do you think we have tight enough laws? >> we do not have laws that are tight enough, for sure, and hopefully there can be change. even the law for mental ilness is tighter than it was, but it's not tight enough. what about people who are drunk, you know -- not drunk, but adjudicated drug addicts. these kinds kinds of things, it should be tightened up. that one will be hard to do, no question about it, but we ask for small and reasonable things, we might get it done. >> how does somebody serve in the u.s. congress who doesn't even know that slavery existed until the civil war. that's michele bachmann's speech coming into tonight. i am stunned by this, this ignorance. i think a lot of the people who are coming in don't have much experience in government.

my classic is they say they hate government, get government out of everything, but don't touch medicare. you say, well medicare is a more government-oriented system than even obama's bill. no, it is. they don't have any knowledge. >> but lincoln is the head of the republican party. he founded it to stop the expansion of slavery into the territories, the most fundamental fact of american history. we fought slavery in the civil war. this woman goes on national television, and we're going to play this over and over again until they can't stand it anymore. >> i haven't seen it, chris. >> she had the founding fathers got rid of slavery. remember the constitution which she waves around -- >> i thought earp joking and talking about the a democratic dams family with more tissuia. >> it's frightening close. anyway, thank you. and try to keep political office. >> it will all catch up with them, chris.

that's what happens when you don't know history. >> i think she's a balloon head. >> ye of little faith. >> i know the phrase. why some progressives are nervous about what the president will say tonight. we'll get to the reason why they might be worried. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. [ tires squeal ] an accident doesn't have to slow you down. introducing "better car replacement," available only with liberty mutual auto insurance -- if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? ♪my country, tis of thee, sweet land of liberty,

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welcome back to "hardball." liberal democrats are concerned that president obama will abandon them in search of the political center. they know his poll numbers have piked up, along with the perception he's more of a centrist. joining mess is steve israel of new york, who chairs the campaign committee, a fine organization. i once worked for it. let me ask you about this. your job is to rebuild the majority, to find a way back to 218-plus. what's the smart move for the president if he wants to begin that quest. >> he is good deal to galvanize democrats. to out-innovate, out-educate

outbuild the rest of the world. the other deal is for those democrats who may be concerned about the president's message, just listen to congressman ryan's response to the state of the union or to michele bachmann's response -- >> you're asking too much. >> we're not the ones -- that's right. we're not the one privatizing social security. >> she thinks slavery went article in the federalist period. she never took one of those bus trips and saw the slave quarters at mt. vernon. what do you think the fight between the president and paul ryan -- we know that paul ryan is respected by the president as an adversary. will there by any common ground on the floor besides the hand holding? any common politics tonight? >> tonight democrats and republicans may be sitting together, but what really counts is what we stand for. tomorrow democrats will be the ones standing against privatizing social security,

something paul ryan wants to do, and against raising taxes on middle-class families. those are issues that really -- that's the contrast between democrats and republicans. >> let me ask you to do something that's going to bother people if you answer it the wrong way. >> that's why i love coming on your show, chris. >> are there some people who have safe seats, don't face general elections. people in the bay area, i like a lot of them, about you they don't know what a general election looks like. you have to win general elections. does the president have to think more about people who have to face general election than from people -- >> i respectfully reject your premise. this year everyone understood. it was a tough deal this year. my job as chairman of the democratic national campaign committee is to drive to 25. we have to win 25 seats to take this back, and we've got to plan to do it and a path to do it. >> once more, it looks like he's going to do what he calls some

smart spending, things like education, r&d, infrastructure, i love all that stuff, because i think it does spell economic development. he's also going to cut some stuff to do what he thinks has to be done. with that sell with your party left? >> we've got to live within our means, but what really matters is how you privatize within those means. one of the things i think we should all be excited about in this speech is the president's going to redefine this as a sit nick movement. in 1957, the soviets beat us to outer space. we had a sputnik then what did we do? we outeducated, outbuild, outengineered the world. he's going to say this is a sputnik moment, and all democrats can get behind that. >> i'm going to call you steve, because this is a personal message. >> please don't. >> don't forget the districts you lost. people in bucks county and upper around scranton, they would like an option, too. those are the people you've got to talk to.

>>. >> that's the fight you zone rye there. >> i've got you. >> thank you, sir. >> we may have to have you come to -- >> i'm not allowed to, but i can speak openly on what i think the smart move week. the chairman of the triple d. patrick, your knowledge of history exceeds that well beyond palin -- bachman >> i think the founding fathers knew it was a real problem. president washington freed his slaves on his own on martha's death. john quincy adams, he threatened to secede from the union if they brought in texas, which was a slave state. by the time we got to the civil war, slavery was reduced to 15 states and the district of columbia, but there were more slaves in the slave states in

the union, than they were threat confederacy. >> right, and the problem was we had to get rid of slavery through the war. i wanted to nail that down. there were a lot of advocates for extending slavery out into texas and the western territo territori territories. by the way, that's what your earthwhile party was originated to fight. she's unaware of the origins of her political party. >> you do know the president of the united states, abraham linking offered a constitutional amendment to make slavery permanent in those 15 states. >> the to deal with what he dealt with, know eventually the circle. i'm being advised it's not all about this crazy revisionism of michele bachmann. do you think she's competent to be speaking for the tea party people tonight? >> the tea party people won 63 house seats. >> is she competent to speak for them? isms they're the ones that choose their speaker, not pat

buchanan or chris matthews. they put her forward. >> but we can offer up an opinion. >> i'll wait until after her speech to give you my opinion. >> how about the president tonight, can he thread the needle between the tea partiers and people on the far left? >> i think the president will have a good speech. i don't think he can, chris, for this reason. this is not a sputnik moment. what this is is the united states of america will have to slash back the welfare and the war fare state, or we're headed for bankruptcy court. we both know it. this isn't a glorious moment where we're going to the moon. it's going to be pain, sweat, toil and tears to get this done. it's going to be very rough. but i do think an inspirational speech by the president, which i expect tonight is a good idea. the country wants us to be united. i think the republicans will respond in that vein. >> do you think this president would gain by going on television, and just slash? >> no. >> would he benefit from that strategy? that's what they're saying they want him to do.

>> let's take the issue of education, chris. we've spent trillions, and we haven't been able to close the racial gap? the united states test scores are falling down among the world's test scores. they've been failing. i wouldn't give ute hundred billion to education until we know why we're failing in these schools, but i do think, look, i don't know where you're going to get much more money, fresh money for new programs. i do agree with those congressmen on both sides who said, look, we'll have to reallocate when we chop here and move it there, because what we've been doing hasn't been working. >> i think that's what he's talking about doing, squeezing in some of the maintenance money and going into capital, that will help the economy, not just take care of needs. i think that's what he's going to do inically i think you've nailed what i think he's going to do. squeeze the money out of the programs and put it where it will create jobs the that's how he'll sell it.

patrick, thank you. more chicago-style politics, rahm emanuel's saga continues. it is like a television show. will he or won't he be able to run for mayor? he's on the ballot. the question is will he stay there?

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back to "hardball." how do you get a better sideshow than michele bachmann rahm emanuel catches a break. the supreme court issued a stay on the appeal court. his name should still be printed on the ballots, a crucial decision, which also got an unexpected boost from the conservative "wall street journal" editorial page, quote, it's tempting to enjoy the ballot troubles, because he's a darling of rich chicago liberals, and it's a rare misstep for the daly machine.

because he chose to serve his country. the supreme court says it will expedite the hearing. stay tuned for this one. like a tv show. tim pawlenty for president, coming to a theater near you. a video could be mistaken for an action movie trailer. check it out. >> if prosperity were easy, everybody around the world would be prosperous. if freedom were easy, everybody around the world would be free. if security were easy, everyone around the world could be secure. they are not. none of this is going to be easy, but this is the united states of america. >> well, wait until they immediate pawlenty. he's not as exciting as the ad. we have an early indication he's not as mainstream as you would like to think. only this month he said he would reinstate don't ask/don't tell.

he wants to go back to the culture wars. smart move. coming up, let's look at mitch mcconnell's idea of bipartisan ship. he was asked to give advice for the president in moving forward. here's his amazing answer -- if the president is willing to do what i and my members want done, we're not going to say. there's an offer the president can refuse. does senator mcconnell want to put the president on his payroll? that's the definition of an employee. and whether the state of the union speech affects the approval ratings. it turns out there's just one president who consistently got a boost out of it. who was it? you guessed it, bill, bill clinton, an average of three percentage points every time he. it turns out people liked him getting into details about programs that affect them personally. guess who's laughing now? the three-point boost every time

he spoke. up next, i have to say it, michelle back man will provide her own version of the gop response, having giving her own nonvern of why there was a gop. it was to stop slavery from expanding into the territories. she said there wasn't any slavery this time by the time the civil war ca the party came along. balloon head. ♪ what do you see yourself doing after you do retire? client comes in and they have a box.

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we haven't heard specific cuts so far. in fact we've heard that the president may be refers to investments, meaning more spending yet again, spending that this country 1i6r7ly cannot

afford, because as we know, mr. speaker, we are falling off the cliff in terms of debt increases. that is not good for the next generation of americans. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was congresswoman michele bachmann of minnesota, previewing her speech tonight, also talking about the state of union address. she's be giving her own response on behalf of the tea party express. is she going to trump the official gop response by republican paul ryan? i doubt it. are bachman and the tea party pushing republicans further to the right, threatening to divide them? i'm joined by sal russo. there's john walsh as well. i want you to look at something that was said over the weekend in iowa by congresswoman bachman. here she is. >> we know there was slavery that was still tolerated when the nation began. we know that was an evil, and it was a scourge and a blot and a

stain upon our history. but we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the united states. i think it is high time that we recognize the contribution of our forebearers who worked tirelessly, men like john quincy adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country. >> well, i don't know what to make of that, sal. that's balloon head, that's not what our history was founded on. the it went all the way to the civil war. we had compromise after compromise, and lost 600,000 people, the worst catastrophe in our history, because slavery continued through the 1860s, and only ended because of this war, and here his this woman you've

made your spokeswoman. that was the one thing they did not deal with. that was the horrible compromise at the heart of our constitution. why do you put someone forward who was a balloon head, who knows no american history? it's a ridiculous decision you guys have made. do you know how also this woman knows? >> i think michele bachmann is one of the best -- >> did you just hear that stuff? do you want me to play it again? we could are ub it in, sal. it's horrendous. >> i think what she's talking about is that we cannot continue to spend money as recklessly -- >> that's not what he just said. she said the founding fathers got rid of slavery. why would you say that? every high school kid has been to mt. vernon and seen the slave quarters. jefferson had slaves, all those guys had slaves. they were great men in other regards, but they never got rid of slavery. here's this woman palling around

with scalia, and she doesn't even know what the constitution had in it. the treatment of slaves as three-fifths of people. that's in our history. explain to me what this woman is talking about. >> i think she's using it as an illustration of -- >> of what? what do you mean, sir? >> the concern today that their children and grandchildren will not have the same opportunities of the american dream, because we've -- >> why are you talking like this? that's how she talks. she goes on this tape, no matter what you ask her, she is go goes on a tape. sal, you know when slavery ended. it ended with the civil war, right? >> well, some kind of slavery ended with the civil war. >> why are you hedging? >> i'm not hedging on t. i'm saying that -- >> when did slavery become illegal? when did the 13th amendment get passed? >> sure, that's a different question from when we've had to

deal with our racial issues. we still deal with them. >> i know, sir, you have an iq. >> chris -- i don't -- >> when did slavery end? >> i don't think that's what she meant. i think she meant if we don't get control of our government now -- >> okay, you're just covering. you made a terrible decision. you put a person out there that has no concept of american history. i'm reminded what steve schmidt said about sarah palin, she doesn't know anything. this is worse. she's claiming this is a problem -- slavery and race are the san an degreeacy fault. let me go to joan. you take over this witness. i know he knows better, and he hayes covering for somebody who knows nothing. >> sal has hitched hi star to the tea party. he's a longtime republican entrepreneur in california who's worked for mainstream republicans. he decided a few years ago he would ride the tea party, and now he's kind of stuck. the other thing, chris, i want to point out one more thing that

michele bachmann said that's related to her thoughts on slavery. she also said we were a country that it didn't matter your economic status, it doesn't matter what country you came from. that's ludicrous, too. there were property requirements to vote in the early states. up until 1830, some white men had property rims. we know that immigrants were bashed. >> you don't have the recallity of what the tea party is all about. >> you had plenty of talk. nativism attacked catholics, burned down convents president we had the chinese exclusion act, for 60 years kept -- so this -- i love our country, chris. i know what we've fought to do is make it better and better and better and we are trying to do that, but to say it's always been easy and always been equal, that lets them propose policies that profoundly hurt black

people, that hurt immigrants, that hurt poor and working-class people, because they have this notion that everyone's always been equal, which is garbage. >> i have to give sal all the time he needs. sxlan the history of american slavery, as you know it. >> this is not about that. why do you want to keep changing the subject? >> because we're talking about your spokesperson that you have designated. >> and what our spokesman is talking about is the fact that our suspending is unsustainable, our national debt is skyrocketing, and we've got to get on top of that. yes, we've had great opportunities -- >> you're talking about a new religion that has to do with the infallibility, almost a scriptural notion of american history that goes back to some perfection time that we're trying to recover. you guys are trying to sell that everything was perfect in the federalist period, so that you can keep saying we've got to go back to that, where everybody had a musk and everybody had a small farm and everything was

perfect. >> no, i don't think that's what anybody is saying. >> you have scrubbed our history of slavery. i think it's a desecration. >> i don't think anybody is saying. >> i want to ask you what you think, sal, of slavery. >> i think our founding fathers developed a development, the constitution of the united states that served america and has served the world for free gop for over 200 years. >> why do you talk like you're on hypnosis. are you hypnotized? >> no, because your question is irrelevant to what the issue is of the day. >> the issue of the day is decreed by this speech by your candidate, is slavery and its history. joan, last thought. poor sal is under the same kind of rule that parent a lot of tea party is, look at the camera and repeat the speech. >> no, we've been on the same -- >> if people really cared about -- why did you not have a tea party movement when george

bush was spending down the clinton surplus, $200 billion a year surplus, and -- >> we wouldn't have a tea party movement if it weren't for the fact that people were dissatisfied with the republican and democratic party. >> this is terrible. thank you, joan and sal. i know you're ten times smarten than this person you put up there. the president will talk about winning the future. does he mean 2012? of course he does. he's a politician like all the other guys. this is "hardball" only on msnbc. who's this ? this is rufus. hey, rufus. he's actually pretty talented. you wanna see him do a trick ? ok. hey rufus. who do we love ? we love our bank. we love our bank. we love our bank. we love our bank. yes, yes. you really love your bank don't you. ally bank customers love our 24/7 customer care that allows you to talk to a real person anytime. ally. do you love your bank ?

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we're back. what an exciting night made more exciting by the crazy talk of sarah palin -- or rather he michele bachmann. the president will give the state of the union address, so what's at stake tonight? i want to talk with a couple smart people, mark halperin from "time," and eugene robinson. by the way, you're always a pulitzer prizewinner once you've won won it. and david corn is joining us, also a -- gentlemen, all three of you, let's start in order. let's start on the left, he said positively. each one of you, will the left be satisfied with the president's proposal to do a lot of progressive spending on education, r&d, and infrastructure? will that be enough to push?

>> not satisfied, but not dissatisfied, not violently dissatisfied or overly dissatisfied. i think the left will accept it and go along with it. >> god, not too big, not too big, not too small just right. >> and i have corn, will it make it for the people you represent, the people from mother jones? >> no one elected me anything, i should say that -- >> but you are a persuasive voice of the progressive circles. >> well, thank you. this is a speech in which the president will try to do two things at one. come out for spending less and spending more, with investments that are generally progressive, not over the top, but in terms of clean energy, education, having the high-speed internet for 98%, but -- >> that's paul, who's he robs that's peter? who's getting sacked here to pay for that? >> we won't know. i was at the briefing today. they kept saying we'll give you

the budget numbers in a couple weeks. they'll have to squeeze other programs. will they be squeezing the epa to do more on education? squeezing the s.e.c. on wall street reform enforcement? until we know the details, we won't know what the fight really is going on within the administration. >> this sounds complicated, but it's how everybody lives. i grew up this way. my parent didn't buy steaks, they didn't go to nightclubs. they didn't waste money. she spent it on education, clothes, the basics, orthodontists. >> a lot of orthodontists units we're less than three months ago from the mid terms, and i think we have not fully unpacked the ways that the president -- the conventional story like -- >> is that the new term, unpack? i thought gregory owned that one. >> i'm boroughing it. i think one of the ways he's better off with the less than he

was, is now the left has somebody they're more angry at. i think republicans controlling the house gives him leeway. he's their war i don't. that buys them a -- >> smart. let me ask gene, and then you, david. it seems you could always say as long as the democrats had 60 senators and a majority in the house, the left was right to push. here's your chance, push. >> right. >> what does the left push for? >> first of all, they push to defend what they accomplished in the first two years. that's nancy pelosi's bottom line and i think harry reid's bottom line. frankly it's more incremental than it was before. the grand gestures, these great works that they went after for the first two years are not possible the same way for the next two years. >> david, it sounds like a position coming from the left, like reagan did coming from the right. he did his big stuff the first year, he wanted reagan gnomics, and then basically had to

correct and back and fill most of the rest of his first term. >> i think what you'll see from now to november 2012 is a fight over message, over politics, and i think people on the left want to see obama get out there and really fight for their values and principles. i think they realize that the way the congress is situated congress is situated, there won't be grand bills passed. there may not even be small bills passed. they want to see obama defending progressive values. in that regard this speech may be a little disappointing. >> do you think he will make john boehner cry by staying nice things about him? i'm serious. i'm not machiavellian. >> i think he mentioned the american dream and kids there is a 50% chance boehner will be weeping. >> what do you think, gene? you have too much of a heart to go into this. this is cruel and unusual. >> i have a heart.

i don't think john boehner is going to cry. >> the president will mention boehner about his hardscrabble life. he is going to turn around and give him a handkerchief with puppy on it. >> maybe he will put his arm and him and say this is a big deal. >> you are so wise guy, bfd, right? >> i think the president will be very gracious to john boehner. we have a copy of the speech. he says very nice things about john boehner. his language is inclusive, not combative. boehner and bill clinton were more confrontational than obama is going to be tonight. >> i think he is going to try to get the progressives behind him on a very aggressive economic problem that bill clinton wanted to do but couldn't because of high interest concerns.

it is a rorshach test. mitch mcconnell, i'm not saying anything bad. he is so tight. is he the american dream mitch mcconnell? i don't think so. we'll be back with our panel to talk about the right, paul ryan and michele bachmann.

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it is like election night. we are back with mark hall prern, eugene robinson and david corn. two people on the right, the near right or nearest right, paul ryan, somewhat analytical gentleman talking about budget cuts and how to do it. on the fringy end of the world he has someone near the end of the world, michele bachmann. this incredible statement by the member of the united states congress that slavery was eliminated during the time of the founding fathers, therefore, not necessitating a compromise of henry clay's period, the loss of 600,000 lives. none of that happened. all this was taken care of in the federalist period. where does a full mooner like this get elected to congress? what kind of a district, i hope you are watching ladies and gentlemen, to elect someone of such limited historic knowledge?

>> i'm sure the "x files" play well. it is unfathomable. she didn't get john adams right. she called him john quincy adams. maybe her numbers will go up now she has gotten rid of the civil war. >> she must have a speechwriter because she was looking at notes. imagine somebody being so be knighted to write something like that professionally paid for by the taxpayer. there wasn't a civil war, there wasn't a 100 year war over slavery because the founding fathers dealt with it. >> george washington after the victory at yorktown recovered from the british camp at yorktown, two slaves, two women who had run away from mt. vernon to the british lines in search of their freedom. >> lewis & clark had slaves.

>> took them back to mt. vernon. >> didn't she "glory"? didn't she know anything? >> or "gone with the wind." >> "gone with the wind" had mamie in it. serious point because you have been so nonpartisan, are you equally nonchalant of this partisan? >> you spent time with members of congress, not all of them are educated. you talked to al russo. that movement has done a lot to get people to focus on deficit reduction. they do not have strong leaders. it will lead them short of their goal. >> the weirdness of this, david corn one last shot. they called justice scalia a learned man on the right. they never got to the part of

the constitution where african americans were 3/5 human beings. >> this is not about facts. this is sarah palinism. if it sounds right, it is good enough for me. they worship at the threshold of the constitution but in some ways they just don't understand it and to them it doesn't matter. >> let's talk about paul ryan. is she going to get stuck? is the third rail of politics still there. if you touch social security are you in big trouble? >> he scares people when he talks about social security and other entitlements. i think he will tread very carefully. >> social security is not causing our national deficits. >> right. >> so why are they going after it? >> they want to start with social security. >> why are they going after social security? >> they are not. they are going after everything. the republicans have no plan. they have no way to balance the budget without raising taxes the best thing obama has going for