osama bin laden walking on this earth again. that directly contradicts the statement the cia director leon panetta made yet in an interview with nbc. >> the government obviously has been talking about how best to do this, i don't think there was any question that ultimately a photograph would be presented to the public. >> so, of course, that's opened up a question to whether we should or should not see the pictures. since president obama is on one side, you want to guess which side sarah palin is on? believe it or not, she disagrees with the president. i didn't see that coming. she tweeted, quote, show photo as warning to others seeking america's destruction. no p usee-footing around, no drama. it's part of the mission. very ironic tweet given that she's politicking by saying that. others i take more seriously like lindsey graham, a senator from south carolina, of course, and he tweeted out -- the whole

purpose of sending our soldiers into the compound, rather than an aerial bombardment, was to obtain indisputable truth of bin laden's death. that was actually a statement, not a tweet. the problem with the pictures from abu ghraib, for example, wasn't the pictures themselves that caused a lot 6 trouble, but it was because of what we did in the pictures. in this case we killed a guy who killed nearly 3,000 americans. if it offends you to see him with a bullet in his head, you should have tried to talk him out of 9/11 a little earlier. joining mess is congressman adam schiff. she serves on the intelligence committee. great to have you here. >> thank you. >> first, saxby chambliss, among others, have said this will obviously come out at some point. should we release the pictures now? >> i think the white house may very well have to revisit this

if al qaeda, for example, airs a stored video of bin laden it will only give further fuel to the idea that among conspiracy theorists he wasn't really killed. it elevates the myth. i think people should see how he lived, the opulent life he was living and i think they should see he's dead. i understand the white house has reservations, i have not yet seen the photos, but i think ultimately they may come around to the conclusion that this is necessary. >> i understand they are gruesome, but i don't think it necessarily inspires anyone. it was not a secret that we were trying to kill bin laden, right? if they see that he has in fact been killed, i don't know, you know, could it be a deterrent in some way as well? >> well, i don't great with sarah palin's analysis, i wouldn't do it as a way of showing if you cross us, this is what happens to you.

people know that already, but i think there are so many conspiracy theories around the country, such a myth about osama bin laden, that showing that he is truly dead and gone has a value, to put that to rest to show this person wasn't larger than life, was in fact very much brought down by u.s. military forces. >> congressman, i actually totally agree with you. if you're doing it to showboat, that's not 9 right way to go, but as evidence, i'm with you, and actually senator graham on this one, that is part of the reason we went on the ground, to get evidence that it actually was bin laden. to a different issue, there's a question to whether this was a kill or capture mission. let me give you video from attorney general eric holder a minute. >> if he had surrendered, i think we should obvious lip have accepted that, but there's no indication that he wanted to do that, and therefore, his killing was appropriate.

>> so what do you think about that? i mean, he's unarmed, yet we say he resisted. have you sorted out what that means? >> well, i think frankly, you know, you're talking about a difficult raid, a nighttime raid. the last thing we want to see is him taking out american forces with a suicide bomb. there isn't a lot of time to think and analyze the situation. if it was clear he was surrendering, but it's hard to imagine that being the circumstances, given the urgency of the situation. so i think our special forces acted perfectly appropriate ly think they recognized going it there was a minute pal chance they would take him alive. >> do you have any insight, for example, how would they have known he was trying to surrender? it's all in the orders, of course. i'm not criticizing. i'm just trying to find out if

you have any insight into that. >> nothing that i can discuss that wasn't gathered in a classified setting. i would say i fully approve of what our special forces did. i think they did a phenomenal job. if 9/11 was the story of not connecting the dots, the hunt and killing of bin laden was the story of how our intelligence agencies worked together to connect the dots over a period of time. a phenomenal operation. no question about it as i've said over and over. it's hard to execute an operation better than this. >> one more question, which now the gop is very busy bringing up. while none of this operation could have existed if we hadn't tortured folks in the first place, where do you stand on that? >> i don't think you can say that definitively or otherwise. how can we determine what information we might have gathered had we used other

processes i don't think you can point to this as support or opposition to -- i think the policy of waterboarding is sound, i think. it doesn't require us to reexamine the facts here, and part of the facts will be unknowable, because we don't know what information we would have gotten using other techniques instead. >> thank you, congressman schiff. sam stein is a white house correspondent for huffington post. and -- welcome both of you. 6 hashaim, your network is reporting that her 12-year-old daughter was captured alive, but killed about ten minutes later. wow, really? do you stand by that reporting? >> no, this is a report based on pakistani sources. obvio obviously unfortunately the

conflicting statements from the white house he was killed initially and later on he was unarmed when killed, are going to provide ammunition for those who like to perpetuate the myth of osama bin laden, that he was captured and executed, quote/unquote. i think this will create some problem and confusion, because some people will try to discredit the american version of what happened. >> sam, pakistan would seem to have some incentive to do so, having been incredibly embarrassed by this whole thing. what's the white house's reaction? >> the white house has been trying to explain they are getting information to the press and to the public as soon as they learn it. obviously there's been differing narratives that have come out on successive days, i think everyone has to take a deep breath, and dig more and wait for more details. obviously they reject the notion that it was put forward by these

pakistani forces. pakistanist sources are not the most reliable in that regard, and they stand xwi that osama bin laden was resisting his capture. i wouldn't be surprised if the administration is forced to revisit its narrative frat once more. >> hisham, the taliban put out a statement, one of their officials said, quote, the americans have not shown any credible evidence of sheikh osama's death. if we did show the pictures, the conspiracy theorists would say it's not signed in the back, it has the wrong date, et cetera, et cetera, do we care about appeasing those people? should we put the pictures out? shouldn't we? >> i think the president decided not to release the photos, because he knew that he would be

subjecting himself to the howling of people who would say this is gory, graphic, insensitive, the united states is using it as a trophy, as you said. on the other hand, he will have those people wo want to believe in the myth of osama bin laden, would say this is doctored, no proof, anyone can doctor these images, and they would choose not to believe it. personally i would have liked to have seen the picture, only because, as they say, more sunshine is better than none, but we don't have traditions in this country where we show pictures of photos of mutilated bodies, even in combat, but obviously i would argue that in six months from now, the myth of osama bin laden will fade away completely, al qaeda unfortunately and its franchise of al qaeda in the arabian pell anyone that, morocco, whatever will remain with us, but the myth will be behind us. already the events in the arab world, the so-called arab spring

has already transcended all that political discourse, and i think the timing of his physical demise was an op opportunity moment and i think maybe the president decided he's not going to be able to decisively put an end on this argument. >> right. there's also the possibility that they now these pictures will come out, about you if it comes out a couple weeks later, things have died down a bit, and am i being a bit conspiratorial there? >> not at all. that's real politics. i spoke to a source close to the white house who said there's -- there's no misconception that most likely they'll leak out. by not releasing them. immediately, i think this white house is prudent in not

releasing it. as a journalist, i would hope they did release it. the pictures tell a whole other story, like you said, when the photos do eventually get released, the president can turn around and say, i didn't want them being out there, they got out there, i wish they hadn't, but these are the photos. >> el agree totally with that analysis. the conspiracy theories are not just in the arab world or the taliban, they're also on fox news. i want to show you a video and get a reaction. >> on the issue of whether the government is telling us the truth or pulling a fast one to save obama's lousy presidency is the issue of the lawful power of 9 president to order someone killed. >> without the picture, it's going to make people think maybe they did throw a bag over his head and get him to club gitmo and let jack bauer go after him. >> i don't count anything out

with this administration. >> hisham, what do you think? >> i don't know on what planet these people live. >> thank you both for joining us. really appreciate it. >> thank. >> thanks. pakistan's former president mu musharraf speaks out. and what's the real reason that george w. bush decline president obama's invitation to join him at ground zero tomorrow. and the debate over waterboarding heats up. some republicans insist it led to bin laden. fact check is ahead. an accident doesn't have to slow you down.

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back in october 2008, senator mccain went after then candidate obama, for announcing his plan was to go into afghanistan and kill bin laden. >> senator obama, by saying he would attack pakistan, look at the context of his words, i'll get osama bin laden, my friends, i'll get him. i know how to get him. i'll get him no matter what, and i know how to do it, but i'm not going to telegraph my punches. well, back in 2008, senator obama certainly telegraphed his punches, and on send he delivered one. yesterday on the senate floor john mccain changed his tune. >> all americans should feel proud of the leadership shown and the team on this matter. it took real courage with putting boots on the ground, and i strongly commend the president for it.

>> listen, you know candidates all the time say one thing and then they don't deliver. i've had my issues with president obama on some of the promises he's made, but boy, i can't remember an instance where someone has delivered on a campaign promise better than this. he said with or without the pakistanis, we're going to go get bin laden. that's what he did. all the credit in the world and credit to john mccain for saying, he was right and what they did turned out to be absolutely correct. all right. we'll be back. of course not. we broke up 6 months ago. but i don't think she'd go for a guy like -- [ ping! ] she says she'd love to. [ ping! ] she can't wait to see me. [ ping! ] she's wanted me to ask her out for over a year now! [ ping! ] she just sent me a video. [ girl's voice ] hi stephen, can't wait for our date! oh, can i see that? aah! [ male announcer ] in the network, sparks fly faster. at&t is getting faster with 4g. rethink possible. ♪

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president musharraf telling andrea mitchell he's surprised that he was captured in the town of abbottabad. in december of 2003 pakistani intelligence suspected al qaeda's number three was hiding in a safe house in abbottabad. he wasn't found, but the location became, quote, a sharp focus of intelligence agencies in pakistan. in 2004, authorities arrested an egyptian al qaeda operative who was yew using abbottabad, and where did they arrest him? i think you've got it by now. abbottabad. it seems a little hard that it would be surprising.

pakistan claims they are working diligently to root out these terrorists hiding in their country. now, look, there's two ways to prove that going forward. one, hand over the other terrorists that are surely there. just do one sweep of abbottabad and you'll probably get a dozen or show. secondly, fire almost everyone at the top levels of your intelligence. they're either complicit or the worst intelligence agency in the history of the world. all right. joining me live now is representative gary ackerman, a member of the house foreign affairs committee. it sounds a little harsh there, but is there a way that spark tan could make it up to us. >> i think you're very justified. there has to be a lot of anger and concern. i've been trying to raise that for years here about our relationship with pakistan, that it's not what it appears to be and we're overpaying and not getting too many deliverables.

this seems to have proved that out in spades. >> so, let me actually share what their prime minister said. he said, quote, fwlz an intelligence failure of the whole world, not just pakistan alone. that was, of course, yusef razza gilani. any truth to that? it seemed pretty specific to pakistan, didn't it? >> it's like casablanca, of all the lousy gin mills in this town, she had to walk into my mine. of all the lousy abbottabads in this country, why did he have to hide out in mine? the whole thing is almost farce cal. it's a community filled with retired military officers. the military is involved in private or public enterprises, whatever you want to call it,

government-owned enterprises. these guys have a stake in the game. they're all on the payroll. it's not clear what the former military's relationship is and the kind of controls by the current government or military, but they're all in cahoots. it's very, very dangerous and volatile situation. congressman ackerman, to be fair, it is a complicated situation. in the past they have worked with us, to give you a list of the folks we did find in pakistan, we did get khalid sheikh mohammed there, we did get abu zubaidi. we got ramsey binalshibh, yew mar patek, and they did -- it seems like they didn't cooperate on bin laden, but they did give us a lot of these guys.

>> they have cooperated in many, many instances. that's the problem here. we are in a terrible relationship. someone asked me is pakistan a friend or not? you know, the fact of the matter is countries don't have friends. we have interests, and when it's in their interests to turn somebody over, they do it. when it's not in their interesting they pretended not to know. you're right. they're either completely incompetent, or completely complicit. but not everybody. we've been paying $4 billion a year for this deal. the problem is we've not gotten everything we wanted, because we haven't paid $4 billion to everybody in the country. >> that goes to the heart of this matter. how do we change their interests, right? we don't what to let the country go entirely. on the other hand, you don't want to keep giving moan to the intelligence agency, which seems -- so obvious if you read

the wiki leaks, stuff, boy. how do we change the incentive structure? >> we have to pay for what's in our interests and nothing more. it's in our interests to have women's right, to train their military to go after terrorists. the last thing we want is for the taliban pakistani to take over and then be in control of 100 nuclear weapons. that's not in our interests. we have to make sure that that does not happen, but to be blindsided and close one eye to say they're our friends is just not the case. they will cooperate when they want to. we have to make it very, very clear that we're going to act in our interests, as the president immediate sure we indicated today -- last night and the other night. we're going to continue to do those things. i've been warning the congress that it's very dangerous to give them an open checkbook for

anything they want. that's really what's been happening. >> i remember for eight years, as we just kept trusting musharraf to do the right thing, i kept pulling my hair out. he was not on the right side so often, and then this happened. it's time for a nuanced strategy in pakistan. representative gary ack-acker man thank you for joining up. the chants, fox news found a way to blame liberals for their celebrations. speaking of fox, the republican spin machine is working overtime. they're making a case for waterboarding. by the way, you will love rumsfeld's flip-flop on this one.

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fox news has a problem. a guy these called a super liberal, a socialist in fact, wound up taking out osama bin laden. well, that doesn't fit their framing that liberals are soft on terror. what to do? they created a new talking point. liberals didn't like that we caught bin laden and hated the celebration of it. why? because liberals are unpatriotic, of course. a headline on the fox nation website reads, quote -- liberals sticking by "usa, usa" chants. that wasn't a liberal website. that was a conservative website,

pretending to speak for liberals. how about fox & friends. they wanted to jump in on the fun. they also bashed liberals, with our without the facts. >> there are a number of liberals outraged by the chachbts of "usa, usa". >> but to dvorak, it says the celebrations are -- >> of course, columnist david sirta said he didn't intend to compare it, and while the worst woes petula dvorak goes on to write, quote, yes, they deserve a night of wow, a confetti in the streets moment of victory, a v-day. th doesn't sound like an outraged liberal, does it? and how about the fact that the overwhelming majority, in fact almost all the liberals were overjoyed with the news, and had

zero problems with the -- that would be inconvenient to the fox narrative. these guys say that president obama is such a big liberal, so i assume fox nation and fox & friends will come out tomorrow and say they give credit to our liberal president for being so tough and smart and doing what a republican president couldn't do. i'm sure that's coming tomorrow, along with an apology for all the wrong assumptions they pushed about liberals that turned out to be so much better at national security than them. now, coming up, republicans are now saying there's no way we would have found bin laden without waterboarding. of course. we'll do a reality check on that next. the real story behind george w. bush and why he declined president obama's invitation to ground zero tomorrow. why is the so-called bin laden hunter, remember this guy, saying "show me the money"? it s s it hit helps the lhe of companipanies

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republicans are trying to convince us we would have not found bin lad tend without waterboarding. >> the bottom line is the enhanced interrogation techniques helped create an environment that gave rise to this information. >> anyone who suggests that the enhanced techniques -- let's be blunt, waterboarding -- did not produce an enormous amount of valuable intelligence just isn't facing the truth. >> i love legalspeak when he says it created an environment. nobody created an environment to get information. >> and rumsfeld? he difficult mission of truth must have changed since monday. two days ago he said this -- >> it is true, as i understand it, some information that came from normal interrogation approaches did lead to information that was beneficial

in this instant. it was not harsh treatment, and it was not waterboarding. >> so was it or was it not waterboarding, don rumsfeld? when it's convenient, apparently i change your tune. even though the obama administration -- last night cia director leon panetta hichbted that waterboarding did have something to do with tracking down bin laden. >> are you denies that waterboarding was in part part of the tactics to extract intelligence. >> i think some of the detainees were clearly -- they use they enhanced interrogation techniques against some of the detainees? >> that weird, because that morning john brennan sang a different tune. >> there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or a role in gathering

information that was integral in finding bin laden. is that the case? >> not to my knowledge. and quote -- they say a closer look says the harsh techniques played a small role, at most, in identifying the trusted courier. two of the waterboarded lied to their interrogators about the identity. apparently the name was given up much later under standard interrogation practices. even panetta's claim doesn't make much sense. listen to what john mccain had to say. irges so far i know of no information that was obtained which would have been useful by, quote, enhanced interrogation. >> so what's going on here? is there any merit to this

tortured hypothesis? or is this an attempt to rewrite history to try to grab credit for something they clearly did not do? let me bring in national investigative correspondent michael isikoff to help answer that question. great to have you here. >> great to be with you. >> i know you did some reporting on this. first, khalid sheikh mohammed, when did he give up the courier's name? >> there's so much misinformation about this. let's be clear. there are only three cia he-value detainees that were waterboarded. one was khalid sheikh mohammed. he was waterboarded 183 times, subjected to the most extreme waterboarding and interrogations of all detainees in u.s. custody. you when they was asking about this kuwaiti courier, he played

down his significance he described him as retired, he dismissed him as being relevant. now, why that's important is that we now eventually the cia was able to p concluded, he was a protege of ksm. they were extremely close. some u.s. intelligence officials even thought they were related, though that doesn't seem to have been the case, but they were -- had worked together for years. so when khalid sheikh mohammed after waterboarding dismisses abu ahmed and described him as retired, he's misleading the cia, throwing them off the trail, although he talked about a lot of things, and there's been a considerable debate about how valuable that intelligence

ultimately was the one most valuable pieces of information he contained, the courier who could have lead him to bid laden, he threw the cia off. i have one former fbi official tells me actually the facts here suggest that this was the more clear example of how waterboarding didn't work because it produced mislead seg information that through the cia, at least initially off the trail. >> right. the whole point of waterboarding is supposed to be we tortured you, okay, okay, i give up, here it is. he did the exact opposite. so it's startling they would go in that direction. let me give you a quote from a national security council spokesperson. he said there's no way information obtained by enhanced techniques was a decisive intelligence that led the u.s. directly to bid laden.

it took years to develop the case that enabled us to identify this compound. is this a misdirectly medical people? >> the facts do not bear up the waterboarding claim at all. you could argue that some detainees who were subjected did produce some minor bits of information, some details that were part of this composite, and i've talked to a lot of intelligence officials who were involved in this process at this point and reviewed what the facts are. it's very clear there was no one decisive piece to this puzzle. there was no blockbuster moment that led to the unraveling up this mystery.

certainly waterboarding doesn't seem to have played any role at all. >> right. the final thought from me is, people like rove, who were say it was the waterboarding, even if they're right about the claims, that's like taking credit for 2% of the puzzle, saying we should get the credit, when, as everybody else explains, even if they're right, 98% of the other stuff was the investigations of the intelligence and how they put it together. i don't even think they're right based on your reporting. >> khalid sheikh mohammed was waterboarded in 2003, they didn't finally figure this name out until 2007, four years later. that shows you the gap. >> thank you very much. michael isikoff, thank you as always. >> sure. thank you. republicans are already trying to rewrite history. we just told you, but there's a whole new layer to it. we'll explain that next. long before a cummins diesel engine powered a ram truck..

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gary faulkner, the guy known as as the bin laden hunter, is taking credit, and even trying to get a piece of that $25 million reward. faulkner made headlines last summer when he was picked up by pakistani authorities found to trying to be enters pakistan. he told authorities he was on a mission from god to lop off bin laden's head. today faulkner took credit,

telling abc news, quote, i had a major hand and play in this wonderful thing, getting him out of the mountains and down to the valleys. i scared the squirrel out of his hole, he popped his head up and he got capped. i'm very proud of our government. they were handed this opportunity on a platter from myself. imagine if bin laden was actually scared, he's like, i have to get down to abbottabad, i hear faulkner is coming, he's got a sword. in reality he was detained 300 miles away from the compound, but he still plans to file a claim for a quarter of the $25 million award that was being offered. is he not reasonable? he just wants a quarter of the money. a u.s. official responded to faulkner's nonsense saying, quote, you don't get an "a" for effort. i like that he was trying, and come on, who doesn't love the samurai sword? the guy came prepared.

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it turns out getting rid of america's number one enemy does good for your ratings. that 28% you just can't move them. they say he doesn't deserve credit. all right. but former president bush got props, too. 582%, based on what? it shows the republican spin machine is paying dividends. prominent republicans been working the air waves that the victory is actually bush's. that's what republicans do. when a big event happens, they immediately start rewrites history.

sudden but now more than 27 months into obama's mrgs, it sound out bin laden's death is all because of bush. so something that happened on bush's watch is not his fault, but something that happened on obama's watch is something he should get credit for? no matter what happens, republicans are always right. joining mess is katrina vanden hivele. and jonathan capeheart. >> katrina, let's start with you. bush gets credit for this? >> i think this is a moment, cenk, first, for sober reflection in this country, now about the who gets credit, who won. it's about the staggering costs of these last ten years, 46,000 soldiers maimed and wounded,

hundreds of thousands of civilians, pakistani, iraqi killed afghan, and the loss of our moorings as a nation. what made lead this country in a new national security direction is an awakening, okay, bin laden is dead and now we have no pretext for the mindless, senseless land wars that are not making us more secure. to step back, with bush, i mean, the exploitation of fear in this country did so much damage to our values, to our principles, to have this discussion about who won, who lost, who should take credit is almost an object senity. >> the problem here, jonathan, is that the republicans jump all over this stuff every single time. so if you don't oppose them, they come in and say, well, on 9/11, later we found out that bush set, it's just swatting

flies, i don't want to deal with it, he told the guy giving the briefing, you covered your asse go home. so, i mean, it seems like if you don't say, wait a minute, what did bush have to do with bin laden and getting him, they're going to convince half the country that it was bush. >> the question was asked of people who do they think should get credit? i think president obama got a lion's share of the credit is the result of the fact that he's the president, the guy in office. he signed the order for this very daring, gutsy operation that led to the killing of an evil mastermind. the 52% of people who think that president bush should get credit, you know might be they're looking at it in the way

i'm looking at it, not so much who should get credit, but i think we're looking at men and women across two administrations who worked day and night to find this guy, and to either capture or kill him. in this case he was killed. in that case if i were asked that question, i would ask for a different question, you know, do i think that the federal government that both administrations deserve a pat on the back for this? ened i would have to say yes. i do think -- >> but cenk, wait a minute, here's the thing -- >> let me finish my thought, but -- >> here's why i say no to that. >> you have an administration that took us into a war on a pretext of weapons of mass destruction. you have an administration, the bush administration, which put innocent lives into battle for a lie, and that must be remembered, and they exploited fear as the master narrative through a global war on terror.

we have a hyper militarized state, and now president obama who gave a sober speech on sunday night, speaking to the best impulses of this country's nature, has not been able to dismantle that, liberals, progressives, people of conscience are disappointed. he tried to close guantanamo. he tried to hold civilian court hearings and what happened? you had a bush/chen yes administration firing back with misinformation, and then the obama administration which didn't fight harder to say we can be secure without undermining the values of this country, and i just think it's an object senity to talk about who takes credit. too many lives have been lost. >> and on that point, katrina, i agree with you. >> but jonathan, maybe i disagree with both of you guys. let me build on katrina's earlier point. the politics, who dares.

what i care about is 9 policy, right? if you say 9 republicans should get credit for two or they should get credit for the torture and that let to the bin laden intelligence, you have greatly misled the country? and people will think, i guess weshd torture again or go into afghanistan or iraq again. that's why it matters. >> but the question that was asked of those people in those polls weren't about policy. it was about politics. who do you think should get credit? there was no cross-tab of what about waterboarding or guantanamo or these other things? >> on what basis do you give the bush administration credit when they didn't do it for eight years. instead they went in the wrong direction. i'm afraid if you give them credit, it misleads 9 country, and i don't know, everybody called it even. so i get we do wars, torture, i guess we play it smart.

>> cenk, what i'm talking about is you have people working within the obama administration who were there during the bush administration, case in point secretary of defense robert gates, and so that's why i'm trying to get away from, you know, president obama gets credit or president bush gets credit. there are people, men and women within the government who span both administrations who worked their puts off to get this done and they got it done. >> cenk, could i say -- >> we have to end on that note. >> i do think president obama now has political capital and the space to begin to draw down this war in afghanistan. it's that neutralization of that -- the sillyness about being soft on terror, which could come to an end. >> i hear you guys, jonathan, don't get me wrong, i to give him credit for picking gates. it depends on the issue. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] you have all this chicken.

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look, throughout these last couple days we've been talking about the raid that president obama ordered on bin laden's compound, but i want to talk to you a bit about something that others are not mentioning. there was apparently according to different sources, about 18 to 37 people in that compound, not just bin laden and his couriers. associated press says there were 23 children and nine women in there. now, yesterday we talked about how president obama made a decision to go in with a surgical attack team instead of doing a bomb from a cruise missile or b-2, et cetera. i want to talk to you about why i think that deserves so much credit. yesterday we talked about, hey, look, you want to make sure it's bin laden, et cetera, et cetera, but those are actual 23 kids, if the record from the associated presses right, and if we had done a bomb, they would be dead today. i don't know how much of a role it played in president obama's decision to go in there with a tactical team, but those guys are brave. they sign up for those kinds of

missions. they did a great job. those 23 kids and 9 women are alive today, because we chose the stronger, smarter, more strategic way of carrying out that operation. the flip side to that is, my god, osama bin laden, who had to realize that compound could be annihilated at any second had all those kids and women in there? it's amazing how little he cares for life. of course, he did 9/11, i know that, but you would think he would care more about the people he's close to. if i thought there was 1% chance i was going to be targeted, i wouldn't want my kids or any kids within a 20-mile perimeter. and therein lies the difference. i know it's an obvious point, but one not discussed much. we care even if it's his kids, and he doesn't care, even if it's his kids. that's why we have the difference between us and al qaeda. all right. i just wanted to make that