groundhog. >> all right, willie. if it's way too early -- >> it's "morning joe." stick around for "the daily rundown" hosted today by the great norah o'donnell. president obama visits ground zero today. a chance to honor those we lost on september 11th and to bury the memory of osama bin laden. also the debate isn't over. even after the white house decides not to release graphic photos of al qaeda's leader. and in politics, the death of bin laden, has it brought washington together? that good will may be fading fast. it is may 5th, 2011. i'm norah o'donnell in for chuck todd and savannah guthrie. let's get to the rundown. president obama will soon board air force one for his trip to new york city. savannah guthrie is travel with the president and is live at andrews air force base. what do we expect the president to do today at ground zero? >> well, good morning, norah. this will be a rather short

trip. the president will be laying a wreath at ground zero. he will not be make a speech there. he will meet with family members. there may be a point where we hear from the president while he is in new york city, but it seems that aides have, while they wanted to pay homage to ground zero during this momentous week when osama bin laden was put to death at the hand of u.s. s.e.a.l.s, they don't want to create this into a political event. as you know, we've reported that both former president george w. bush and former president clinton were invited to attend today as a part of that spirit of unity that the president is trying to create. however, both of them were unable to come because of scheduling conflicts. >> savannah, you broke the news yesterday that president -- the president had decided not to release those bloody, gruesome pictures. based on your reporting, how much debate was there within the administration over the release? >> it does sound like the majority of those senior officials who talked to the

president about this sided with him. and it sounds like his opinion on this was formed rather early on. that given the graphic nature of the photos. also given the fact that in the white house's own monitoring of reaction in the arab world, there did not seem to be broad skepticism. there seemed to be mostly acceptance that, indeerksd osama bin laden had been killed. the president was clearly worried about having these very graphic photos out there, then used to inflame more hatred, perhaps retaliation or become some kind of photographic shrine that radicals could cling to. here he is on cbs' '60 minutes" plaining his rationale. >> we are absolutely certain this is him. we've done dna sampling and testing. and so there is no doubt that we killed osama bin laden. it is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the

head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence, as a propaganda tool. you know, that's not who we are. >> now the white house has come under some criticism because of the way that the narrative of what happened has changed in key respects from when john brennan, the top counterterrorism adviser at the white house came out on monday. the explanation for this is that simply all of the after action reports weren't in. but it did change in some key respects in particular, we now know, of course, that osama bin laden was unarmed at the point he was shot. but there is growing frustration among some u.s. officials to the extent that it feels that the s.e.a.l.s are being second-guessed in what they decided to do. it was pointed out to me that in the room that osama bin laden was in on that third floor there was an ak-47 and a pistol within reach. he was certainly rushed by osama bin laden's wife and made a

split-second decision. as one senior official said to me they weren't raiding the girl scout troops looking for overdue library books. they were on a kill mission for osama bin laden. norah? >> savannah guthrie who is travel with the president today as he goes for the first time as president to ground zero and into the pit there. savannah, thank you so much for all that great reporting. more now on the newest account of the raid on bin laden's compound as well as what officials are learning from that treasure trove of intelligence they found there. nbc's jim miklaszewski is live at the pentagon. mik, i understand they are going through this intelligence and are picking up some leads. >> that's right. you know, attorney general eric holder and janet napolitano, secretary of homeland security, both told congressional hearings yesterday that they were already gleaning some valuable information on al qaeda suspects that they probably hadn't heard from before.

the attorney general said that, look, we've already put some names on the watch list that weren't there before. and this is just a first blush of a look at thousands of documents. so those who were reviewing these documents, those in the intel, even the military community are quite optimistic that this is going to provide them a lot more insight, some of the deepest al qaeda secrets. particularly they are interested in finding out if it's true that al qaeda had planted some secret sleeper sells in the united states, in europe and in canada ready to spring at a moment's notice. there hasn't been any hard confirmation of that, but they are really looking closely at that to see if al qaeda is ready to react to the killing of bin laden. >> really important information that's gleaned from that. mik, let me also ask you about some of the details we're now learning about that raid on bin laden's compound. specifically, the chopper. the helo that was used by the

navy s.e.a.l.s. we saw this picture. it looks like the tail of it stuck on the back of one of the compounds. i was speaking with someone who said that doesn't look like a blackhawk to me. now we learn it's a very different helo that's been used in past operations, correct? >> it is. it's a modified blackhawk, an attempt to reduce its radar signature, harder to detect on radar and also reduce the noise that their rotors make. special operations forces have had these kinds of stealth helicopters for more than 30 years, frankly. way back during the tanker wars in the '80s they were using them to sneak up on iranian boats that were laying mines in the water. but these are far more sophisticated in terms of the polymers and the skin they put on the outside that make them harder to detect. and they have been kept pretty much under wraps until various pieces of them were photographed

around the ground on that compound. and just very briefly to follow up on what savannah was saying a moment ago. you know, the administration has gotten itself wrapped around its own axel as it's tried to explain what went on at that compound. and i think primarily because they have been afraid to say that this was a kill mission. that these special operations forces, when they knocked on a door, most of the time, they go in shooting because they know they are after some pretty tough and bad characters. so in their attempt to not make it appear that their number one goal was to kill osama bin laden, they were coming up with all kinds of reasons. a prolonged, fierce firefight that has now, we know, is not true. that that was ended for quickly and most of the people in fact, only one, was armed. so i think once the -- once everybody gets settled down and understands that this was a mission to kill osama bin laden, a lot of this will clear itself up. >> well said.

jim miklaszewski at the pentagon. mik, thanks so much. and pakistani intelligence is now denying that it had a role in helping the bin laden hide out in plain sight in abbottab abbottabad, insisting they had no idea he was there. ann curry is live now in pakistan with more on the official reaction. and, ann, i know you are over there. there's a "wall street journal" piece today. it's the top of the fold here in washington that says that signs point to some pakistan link. what are they saying there in pakistan about whether they aided or abetted osama bin laden? >> they deny it categorically as you might imagine. they are very much on the defensive, norah. they are very concerned about public perception right now. in fact, the foreign minister actually went -- the prime minister has publicly said that it's not pakistan's intelligence that is on the line here. it's the whole world that failed in terms of finding osama bin laden before now. and one official, however, a

former national security adviser, norah, expressed a lot of embarrassment saying it was just embarrassing to find out after the fact that the u.s. had come into this area, this garrison town and found him. he was found 35 miles from islamabad. so i think it's fair to say that even in a news conference later today, the foreign minister sort of expressing that perhaps some of the intelligence that this country has gained and has given to the united states, that maybe that somehow helped finding leading american navy s.e.a.l. tos bin laden. there's an effort here to shore up their operation and a lot of embarrassment over how this went down. >> absolutely. i know you spoke with a former pakistani national security official. let's play that sound now and talk about it on the other side. >> u.s. forces came in, raided the place, took him out and we didn't know about it.

so that's embarrassing. >> how could pakistan not find someone right in front of them? >> i think you hit the nail on the head. right in front of them. he was in a location where, i think, that our intelligence least suspected. >> ann, i think, you know, clearly what we're learning now that the pentagon wasution these stealth helos. they were flying low. they used the mountain range there to protect them. so it's conceivable that in the middle of the night that they didn't know that our commandos had moved in quickly. but it was embarrassing certainly for the pakistanis. but this larger question is that who -- was there a network that was supporting him, either former or current military officials or intelligence officials, right? >> that's right. in fact, i asked the national security adviser, the former national security adviser who you just heard about that. i mean is the world to believe

that the intelligence service here is so incompetent that it did not know that osama bin laden was right here under his nose. and general durani basically said it was a slip-up, a mistake. that this is a small town. and it's interesting to note that osama bin laden chose a place where the intelligence service would probably least look. they were talking about looking for him in the hindu kush, living in a cave. the last place he said they would look is right under their noses. so i think that's part of -- we're going to hear this, i think, moving forward in terms of what they'll be saying. i think it's important to note that general durani, and this will be an increasing -- you'll hear more about this. he's saying the president of the united states is making a big mistake, with all due respect in not releasing a photograph of osama bin laden's body because he said that the world needs proof. pakistan needs proof. the u.s. needs proof.

and unless there is proof, he said that there is a real chance that osama bin laden will gain a mythical status. i can tell you walking around the compound here, nobody believes. i have not found anybody here who believes that osama bin laden was actually ever here. >> wow. fascinating details, ann curry, there in pakistan. look forward to reporting today on msnbc and on "nightly news" and on "today." one more note about the events that happened on sunday afternoon. and that now iconic photograph from the situation room where we saw president obama and his top advisers. many notice secretary of state clinton appeared shocked by what she saw with her hand over her mouth. but this morning in italy, secretary clinton said that her anguish look may have just been some spring allergies. she said she doesn't know what she was seeing at that specific time that that photo was

released. she said she may have just been preventing a cough as she was suffering from some allergies. so pretty interesting. we should now head to wall street for a check on where the markets are headed today. i'm joined by becky quick. becky, good to see you. >> good morning. it looks like the market is going to open down today. right now the dow is indicated to open lower by about 62 points. it's coming on some bad economic news. we got the weekly jobless claims today. those numbers skyrocketed. 474,000 additional claims. that is up from the month before by more than 40,000. and it's bad news as we head into tomorrow's jobs report. so that's going to be a key to watch. also, we've been hearing from jean claude truchet. he's making claims that make them think they will not raise interest rates any time soon. you are seeing the dollar pick up ground. commodities across the board are coming under pressure. oil down about $3.82. gold down by about $10. and silver is the real loser here down by 10%.

people who had been piling into those trades very recently are getting crushed today. we'll keep an eye on that. >> becky quick, thanks so much. and up next, will osama bin laden's death be a game changer for president obama? by some washington watchers say killing the world's most wanted man may not have lasting political effects. plus, the debate over the decision not to release the bin laden pictures. and still to come, what if you held a debate and virtually nobody came? what tonight's 2012 republican debate says about the presidential field. but first, a lookad at the president's schedule. he'll be in new york city for that ceremony at ground zero and to meet with families of 9/11 victims. you are watching "the daily rundown." last minute deals every week. so i get a great deal, no matter how long i wait. yeah, i'm not very good at waiting... then we must train you to wait.

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my initial opinion is it's not necessary to do so. i think there's ample proof that this was osama bin laden. >> the reason you wanted to go in on the ground was to prove to the world you got bin laden and a picture is worth a thousand words. >> i don't think that the timing is such that something incendiary is the right thing to do. >> lots of debate. and when it comes to things that congress can agree on, killing a terror leader is probably an easy one. but the ensuing fight over whether to release a picture of bin laden suggests the president's call for unity is already proving short lived. let's bring in stu rothenberg from roll call. also with us ruth marques for "the washington post." i think this is an interesting subject about whether this actually changes things here in washington. there's a lot of huge issues that have to get done.

not only national security issues but that affect our budget and other things. but, stu, you don't think this is a game changer? >> i think it's unlikely it is. it's good news in the short term. i think the president will use it repeatedly over the next year and a half in the election. i think by the time we get to next summer and fall, the focus will be on other things. and in fact, we just learned this morning the jobless claims are up significantly. i think we'll return to the economy sooner rather than later. >> we've seen obama approval up. i don't think it's a huge surprise he'd get a bump but that's a significant bump, ruth. but, you know, joe biden, the vice president of the united states is having a big meeting today between bipartisan leaders to talk about dealing with the debt ceiling. could this mean that people are going to be more willing to deal on issues like that. >> welcome to washington. probably not. i agree with everything that stu said. it's fantastic news. it's not surprising that there's a bump.

but it also will be surprising to me anyway if it's much more than transitory. because the issues, first of all, everybody is thrilled we got bin laden. but look at the news about the jobless numbers. that's what's going to really drive people. prices at the pump is what's going to drive people. and the differences, the serious differences between the two parties over how to deal with things like the debt that the vice president is having a meeting on today aren't going to be done away with by capturing bin laden. >> right. talk about the jobless claims. unemployment 8.8%. the average price of gasoline now $4 a gallon. these are significant things that are really hurting people in their pocketbook. >> i think the important point is, it's not that the particular incident won't have legs. it's that nothing has legs anymore. the shelf life of any news story is so short now as we jump from crisis to crisis and topic to

topic. you look back to 1991, president bush's approval was up to over 80% and shortly after that he lost an election. so i am not suggesting that president obama is going to lose his re-election. it's far too early to predict that one way or another. it's just the glow we're seeing now is probably going to fade, surprisingly quickly. >> clothes may fade more quickly than they used to, but also we've been talking about what if this had, god forbid, gone wrong. what if we had another jimmy carter moment? i think the reason the jimmy carter moment was so damaging to jimmy carter was that it fed into the narrative of a feckless presidency. and he was unable to get the hostages released. if this had failed, it certainly would not have been good for president obama, but the reality is that osama would have remained uncaught. and it would have been a different situation. and so the success or failure, it's almost a little silly in some ways to give the president the credit or blame for it.

>> i don't know if you guys are like me. when i read the paper in the morning, i like to react to it strangely. and i either scream out loud or say this is a fascinating story. but that's because i love the news. this story on the front page of the "wall street journal." gop and the white house talk deal on debt. republicans in the white house are actually talking about some sort of a deal. they would enact some spending cuts. but read the second paragraph. they're going to defer contentious decisions about med case, medicaid and taxes until after the 2012 election. oh, great. there's going to be a deal, but guess what. there's not going to be a discussion about medicare, taxes until after 2012. >> did you hear me scream at your house. >> where's the beef? where's the beef? >> and why is it that they are talking in that way? well, they are talking in that way because the republicans have been feeling some heat about the political consequences and reaction to the tough love in the ryan medicare plan, in

particular. so they are backing off a little bit. they aren't backing off because the president got osama. they are backing off because they are feel something pressure from their constituency. >> all right. ruth and stu, always good to see both of you. thank you so much. up next, with the pressure off, the white house and congress bringing in the big guns for this new round of deficit negotiations. the clock ticks toward -- ever closer to the day when the government runs out of money to pay the bills. is there hope any of agreement? as i said, where's the beef? we'll ask senator rob portman. [ male announcer ] in 2011, at&t is at work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible.

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after months of partisan brinksmanship over spending cuts in the millions, house and senate negotiators kick off high-stakes budget negotiation with the white house this morning led by vice president biden at blair house. senator republicans are out this week with a seven-point jobs

plan. an effort to pressure voters and reassure voters that the party's focus on deficit reduction hasn't distracted them from the number one concern of most americans -- jobs. ohio senator rob portman is the former budget director for president george w. bush. he drafted the plan and serves on the senate budget committee. senator, good to see you. thanks for joining us. >> norah thanks for having me on. >> how do you create jobs with this plan? >> first of all the jobs issue is totally related to the budget issue you've been talking to your other guests about. it's difficult to get out from under this huge overhang of deficits and debts at record levels. we need to restrain the spending. we need to do. second, we need to grow this economy. and this jobs plan is a really simple common sense and i hope bipartisan effort to say, let's have tax reform that actually gets the economy moving again. economists across the spectrum believe that should happen. it was part of the president's fiscal commission report. the regulatory relief. small businesses are stifled in terms of their ability to create jobs because of the increasing

regulations and the uncertainty that comes from more regulations. let's expand the exports which the president has an opportunity to do with these free trade opening agreements. 250,000 new jobs would be created. these are the common sense things in our plan. it's really just a blueprint for success for the american people by getting folks back to work and helping on the budget situation. >> senator, let me ask you because i think as you point out, that the budget situation is tied to the jobs situation. and one of the things in your blueprint is to require a balanced budget amendment that would also require some sort of statutory spending limits. most people would say, good idea, right? let's not overspend. and yet we continue to overspend. and i guess the question i have is that most of the republicans in the house voted for paul ryan's budget. and it does not balance the budget until 2030 and it doesn't reduce the deficit until 2040.

so what's up with that? >> well, it's certainly a huge improvement from our current trajectory and a vast improvement from the budget that the president proposed which, based on the congressional budget office analysis doesn't help at all in terms of deficit reduction. so the question is, how do you get to a balanced budget over time? my strong view and this is why it's reflected in this plan is we need to have the discipline out there first. 49 states have it, as you know. all of my cities and counties back home in ohio have it, and that discipline is important not just in order to get our fiscal house in order but if we don't show the markets and others that we are going to have that kind of discipline in play, it's tough to get the economy moving. so it's very much related to the economic issues. >> senator, you have heard that the majority leader in the senate, harry reid, the democrat, has said he's going to bring the ryan plan to a vote. as a republican, would you vote in favor of congressman paul

ryan's plan that has these cuts in medicare? yes or no? >> well, i'm in a position now, norah where i will probably vote for any plan that is more fiscally conservative. i am very concerned about where we're headed as a country. i think at this point republicans and democrats alike need to figure out how to get together and support plans that actually reduce the deficit. the ryan plan does that. there will be other plans out there i assume in the budget committee next week. we'll have a few different plans offered. you'll probably see me supporting several of them because i think at this point, if we don't get a hold of our deficit and debt and get out of this deep fiscal hole we've found ourselves in, we'll not be able to bring the economy back. we risk the kind of debt crisis we've seen in greece and other countries. that would be horrible for our country and our ability to get people back to work. i think we're at a turning point here and need to embrace something real. i hope the discussions are successful today at the blair house. i also hope the gang of six is successful. we can't continue this partisan paralysis. we have to make decisions. >> senator, i hope that's true.

i know certainly the american people do that we're at a turning point and that there's enough people sort of pulling for some sort of agreement that people will finally be able to compromise and sacrifice on both sides of the aisle to actually get something done. finally, let me ask you. you serve on the armed services committee. there were three senators on the armed services committee yesterday who said incorrectly that they had seen photos of a dead osama bin laden, including senator scott brown of massachusetts. what do you think happened? >> i don't know. i heard the reports as well. i wasn't shown the photographs. it's a tough issue in terms of whether to show the photographs or not. and i am deferring to the experts who have looked at the photo, which i haven't, and those who can analyze what the impact would be. the positive -- >> do you support the president in his decision not to release the photos? >> i do. i think we have to defer to those who have seen the photo, which i have not and those who understand what the pros and cons are in terms of the impact

on the middle east. the positive is it's more definitive proof. the negative is what the consequences could be in the mideast when we have troops in iraq and afghanistan and a lot of u.s. civilians in afghanistan where i just was a couple of weeks ago who we need to be sure and protect. it's a tough decision but i support the president on this one. >> senator portman out with a jobs plan today and a blueprint. good to see you. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me on again. up next, burying the memory of bin laden. we'll go live now to ground zero as our president prepares for his first visit there. plus, what do you get when you put an ex-pizza executive, two libertarians, a former governor and a former senator all on the same stage? yep, it's the first debate of the 2012 season, even if you can call it that. a lot of the big guys are not showing up. what does it all mean? first, today's trivia question from the almanac of american politics. which congressman announced his

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president obama is scheduled to leave andrews air force base shortly heading for new york city where he will lay a wreath at the 9/11 memorial. ron allen is live for us at ground zero in downtown manhattan. give us a preview of what we expect from the president today. >> well, norah, this is going to be quite a visit for the president. it's an amazing scene here now at ground zero. we've been coming down here year after year. but things are really taking shape. from this vantage point, ten stories above ground zero you can really, for the first time, get a real sense of what's going on in there. we refer to it as a pit. it's really now full of activity

and really coming alive. if you look down into this area, you can see the outlines of the memorial. the memorial to the victims who died here. those two gray squares there. they are going to be huge reflecting pools and waterfalls cascading over the edges. the largest man-made waterfalls anywhere in the country. around the edges of the refleblthing pool will be monuments with the names of all the people that perished here. that will sit on a plaza. they are small trees now but there will be about 400 oak trees there. it will be a quiet, reflective, contemplative place for people to pay tribute to those who died. also you can see rising above ground zero, world trade center number one. it's the first tower that's going up. it's about 60 stories tall as of now and it's slated to be about 104 stories tall. they used to refer to it as freedom tower. now world trade center one.

it's still not to be completed until about 2013 but all across this site now, after 9 1/2 years, there is a lot of construction activity on what will be five office towers here. of course, there's been a lot of wrangling, a lot of emotion poured into this 16-acre site as to what would be built here. what would be first and who would do it. now the president comes here at a time when bin laden is dead and that will be an inspiring backdrop for what the president is going to do here today. >> no doubt about it. ron allen who is there. thank you for that. secretary of state hillary clinton is in rome attending an international meeting on the libyan conflict today. as part of an ongoing strategy to increase pressure on moammar gadhafi's regime, clinton announced a plan it free up some $30 billion worth of frozen libyan assets to help fund the rebels there. this is word that nato air strikes have destroyed at least two helicopters on the ground near the rebel-held town of

zinton. richard eng cell in benghazi with the latest. what can you tell us? >> secretary of state made a very clear statement, perhaps the clearest yet on what the -- she said in order to protect the civilians, the libyan people, the best way to do that is to remove moammar gadhafi. so stating very clearly that the goal not just the pretext for the conflict but the actual object sieve regime change. and on the money, there is this movement here in benghazi to attract funds from around the world. the interim government here, which hasn't been recognized by the united states, is asking for $3 billion. and today, at that rome conference, we heard hillary clinton say that the united states isn't going to pledge any or large amounts of american money, but it is examining ways to free up some of the $30 billion or so in frozen --

and to try and transfer some of that money to the government in benghazi which says it desperately needs it for fuel, food, medicine, basic supplies to keep the city running and to keep eastern libya alive. >> all right, richard engel there in benghazi. richard, thank you for that. and now to a discussion here in america about whether americans should pay more in taxes. well, according to a new analysis by the bipartisan joint committee on taxation, over half of households paid no taxes in 2009 with 22% of filers owing no taxes and another 32% receiving refundable credits, deductions which brought their tax liability down to nothing. utah senator orrin hatch is the top republican on the senate finance committee and a member of the joint committee on taxation. also a past chairman of the judiciary committee. senator, good to see you.

thanks so much for joining us. >> nice talking to you, norah. good to see you. >> so americans hear this that almost half of americans and households paid no taxes in 2009. why is that? >> well, the joint tax committee said that 51% of all americans, of all taxable units, meaning households, do not pay income taxes. now they do pay payroll taxes but what a lot of people miss is that 23 million of those people who pay payroll taxes get more back from refundable tax credits than they do -- than they pay in even payroll taxes. so they not only don't pay income taxes, they don't pay payroll taxes. >> so the tax system is not fair, it's applied unevenly. this is kind of an obvious story. we all know about it. the question is what do you do about it? are you willing to, you know, reduce the standard deduction? your willing to eliminate the mortgage interest deduction? what's the solution? >> well, i'm not willing to do

anything that would increase taxes because i think the real problem is we're spending too much. there's no use kidding about that. for instance, the president said, well, we've got to increase the tax on the rich. if we took his tax on the rich, that would amount about to $36 billion this year. now put that in perspective. we're having a deficit $1.5 trillion. so it hardly would make a dent in that. no, our problem is spending. it's not taxes. we'll have enough revenues once we come through this recession. >> yeah, but senator, the whole point of bringing this sup to make the point that the tax code is a mess and it's ridiculous. i mean, i know you know that in 2007, i mean, warren buffett, the billionaire, talked about how he only paid essentially like 17% an effective tax rate while his secretary paid 30%. there are so many serious deductions that people can take that it's not applied evenly what people are paying in taxes. do you reform the tax code

system? the president's own fiscal commission came out and said if we reform the tax code you can save and add a trillion dollars. >> well, a great economist of the past said the place where you've got to get revenues has to come from the middle class. that's the huge number of people that are there. so the system does need to be revamped. as far as -- i finishing you made the point if you go with what the president says about the wealthy you might get $36 billion compared to the $1.5 trillion expenditure this year. or should i say deficit this year. and the problem with that is that you hit about 800,000 small businesses where the jobs are created that would hopefully get enough people to pay taxes. so, yeah, we have an unbalanced tax code that we've got to change. i tell you. if we get control of that committee, the finance committee, i'd tend to see this change. not to hurt the poor. we should help the poor. but to make sure that their specific duty on the part of every one of us to help this government to be better and

to -- but to do that you have to convince people you'll get spending under control and run the government in an appropriate way which is not being done right now. >> all right. senator orrin hatch, we look forward to seeing what happens on the tax code and also what happens at the blair house today with the vice president, joe biden. thanks so much. we appreciate that. >> nice to be with you. and trivia time. we asked, which congressman announced his retirement on cinco de mayo last year? the answer is former congressman david obey of wisconsin. all right, up next, a preview of tonight's republican debate. but first, the white house soup of the day. they are serving gazpacho in the white house mess today. of course, on cinco de mayo. enjoy.

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what if the republicans held their first presidential election primary debate tonight and no one was watching. mark murray is nbc's deputy political director and joins us now. all right, mark. why don't any of the top republicans want to debate? >> there are a couple of reason yes some of the top republicans aren't showing up. mitt romney said he's not -- because it's too nearly the process. he's not yet even an official candidate in this race. newt gingrich on the other hand didn't make the requirement by the organizers. there's a reason why some of these folks aren't yet. but, clearly, right now, that

tim pawlenty is probably the top tier candidate who will be attending tonight. and then it's other people. >> does it diminish tim pawlenty at all to be at this debate? >> it gives him the spotlight. if he performs very well, we'll be watching tonight and he'll be able to show that he has the chops to go head-to-head with president obama november 2012. i do think what could diminish the republican field is just the split screen image of the day. president obama going to ground zero for a very solemn tribute to those who died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. on the other hand, the debate in south carolina, tim pawlenty, rick santorum, heram cain, ron paul, gary johnson and that split screen image could be very difficult for the republican party. >> do you think, certainly, with the president's victory and command of this operation, which the white house really took pains to release that narrative of how closely he followed this operation and planned for it in

terms of catching and killing bin laden that then highlights the lack of foreign policy and now security credentials of current republican field? >> it does. and of course, that osama bin laden's death hovers over tonight's debate. i'm sure it will be a question but clearly that commander in chief hurdle is manager that barack obama has to go through and make pains to go through. we remember that trip to europe and middle east and tns of reporters there and everyone looking for a mistake and president obama able to clear that. if it's going to be mitt romney, tim pawlenty, both of whom are former governors, if they end up getting the republican nomination, they have to have commander in chief chops. >> right. and then some people say, so what? so what if the republicans or not the whole field not cements on the republican side but my question is aren't they losing

some of the time to do the grass roots organizing and raise a boatload of money to defeat president obama? >> it is clear that we have a very long time to go. it's still several, you know, hundreds of days. and clearly, the general election is 550 days away so there's lots of time but you're right. even karl rove made this that if republicans don't get in the race by june it will be difficult to have the race to beat obama come november 2012. things have gotten off to a little slow start but, of course, when you have a sitting president there, republicans might say, look, if we can shorten the time and playing field that gives us a good chance to get the republican nomination. >> all right. mark murray, director of political matters, thanks so much. a programming note. tonight andrea mitchell will be in chicago for nbc's "education nation, on the road" and rahm

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daily flashback. 50 years ago today alan shepard became the first american in space when he made a 15-minute sub orbital flight. ten years later, he would command "apollo xiv." and become the first man to swing a golf club, yeah, on the moon. live pictures here now of the kennedy space center in florida where nasa is commemorating the 50th anniversary of the u.s. human space flight. also to mark the day, the u.s. postal service unveiled a stamp commemorating alan shepard's

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president barack obama's on the way to new york city where he's expected to lay a wreath at the site of the largest terrorist strike in u.s. history. new information on how the hunt for al qaeda operatives, we're looking at that. funding the rebels. secretary of state hillary clinton says the united states is working to free up portions of gadhafi' dollars to help free the libyan people. kids getting a boost in the classroom. all that today. our top story first. president obama meets with families who lost loved ones on 9/11 and then first respobders who ran into the twin towers on the day that c