could hand barack. let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthews. from washington, leading off tonight, what a difference a week makes. president obama showed us he's as cool in the terrorist hunt as president as he was in the delegate hunt as a candidates back in 2008, by getting osama bin laden. he has transformed his image and perhaps his presidency. today in ft. campbell, kentucky, the president met the navy s.e.a.l.s that carried out the mission, speaking to them as commander in chief to the men involved in the mission. >> thanks to the incredible skill and courage of countless individuals, intelligence,

military, over many years, the terrorist leader who struck our nation on 9/11 will never threaten america again. [ cheers and applause ] >> president obama 2.0 at the top of the show tonight. plus the cloak and dagger story itself. new details emerging about how we got bin laden. today we learned the cia tracked him for months from a rented safe house in his neighborhood before the s.e.a.l.s went in. about the s.e.a.l.s they are the elite of the elite but what does it take to become a s.e.a.l.? we'll meet two of them tonight. that's going to be exciting for me. news about bin laden, the big story may have been this week republicans running away from their own plan to kill medicare. they are getting a dose of political realities that may cost them big time. finally, let me finish with what a sane person would take away from the monumental events of this week. we start with a week that was for the president. david corn is mother jones' washington bureau chief, and

eugene robinson, columnist for "the washington post," both msnbc political analysts. gentlemen, let me ask you about this whole week and what it says about the authority of the president. i'm one that believes power comes from the office, but authority has to be earned separately, the power that comes from the way people look at you. >> i think a president first gets the job by winning an election but still has to prove himself by the way he performs. barack obama has been making touch calls from the get-go, a lot about economic matters and health care and so on. but this was really a tough national security call and it was a gutsy call. can you imagine what would have happened from a global perspective if this did not go well? if this was desert 1 again? it would be jimmy carter, jimmy carter, jimmy carter for the next 18 months. you remember those days. i know you're old enough. >> i know all about it. i was there as a speechwriter. i remember the hell of desert one. >> he had a lot of other choices. he could have tried to bomb.

then you don't get the intelligence bonanza they are working off of. all in all, i think this is a big week in terms of performance and probably should have political ramifications. >> 68% going in. the reporting tells us. >> 68%. that's not 90%, that's not a slam-dunk. you know, i have thought all along obviously president obama, really smart, really competent. but in the political sense i've said he's really good and he's also lucky. you want -- >> you've noticed what i've noticed. i want a lucky president. >> you want him to be good, but you want a lucky president, bin laden was there. they got him. no americans -- not another american life was wasted on this guy. >> who was the president that said what kind of generals do you like? he said, i like lucky generals because he doesn't want to hear excuses afterwards. let's look at the president. a this incredible week began sunday night. let's listen to the president as he addressed us. 56 million americans watched him late sunday night.

let's listen. >> today at my direction, the united states launched a targeted operation against that compound in abbottabad, pakistan. a small team of americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. no americans were harmed. they took care to avoid civilian casualties. after a firefight they killed osama bin laden and took custody of his body. >> you know, we all like to watch polls in this business. i want everybody at home watch this poll here. this is a series of what five polls now showing before and after almost. on the left is the current poll in red. on the right is the one around before. now, they are interesting because they all give him the natural bump, which makes perfect sense. you never know how long it will last if they do. look at the one at the bottom, "ne

"neeknoic does "newsweek" have problems? is that a broken scale or what? >> beyond the polls -- >> why does "newsweek" say no change this week? >> who knows. >> an outlier poll. >> it's statistics, there's always an outlier. >> okay. >> beyond the polls, what barack obama did this week, this isn't why he did it, he took that old republican playing card, the weak on defense card. they played it in the 2008 campaign. they were going to play it all the way to 2012 campaign, gop. they can't do it anymore. are you weak on defense? i don't know, go ask -- >> i was going back in my brain on this today, thinking franklin roosevelt was a great war president. he picked the great generals, right front, europe first and then asia. he made the tough calls. truman comes in, drops two atom bombs on the japanese, ends the war, saves the lives of a lot of american servicemen. it was a brutal call but he calls it. then went to korea, which a lot of people wouldn't have done,

because it was tough. johnson fought maybe not brilliant but tough war in vietnam. where is this idea that the democrats in history haven't been willing to fight and try to be at least great patriotic leaders. gene? >> it's not grounded in history or fact, but in the political sense it has scored points for republican candidates for the last several elections. david is right, it won't score points in the next election. what fascinates me, i think there's another political dimension, that sort of steeliness you saw in that clip as he announced bin laden's demise. that takes away this sort of republican narrative that there's something wussy, effete. >> who was the -- i got you. >> the chicago committee -- >> that he wrings his hand, can't be decisive. >> right, right. >> here is the president today.

this is a keeper for people that care about what we have to do in this world. here is the president at ft. campbell today. let's watch the president. that's, of course, new york. here is the president just now, just a few minutes ago this afternoon. >> i came here for a simple reason, to say thank you on behalf of america. this has been an historic week in the life of our nation. [ cheers and applause ] thanks to the incredible skill and courage of countless individuals, intelligence, military over many years, the terrorist leader who struck our nation on 9/11 will never threaten america again. >> you know, i was thinking that this idea of cool. i was thinking back on, people that watch this program

follow politics, liberals and conservatives. i have to say, they do watch the politics. remember all during the fight, the intramural fight between president obama, when he was a candidate, a one-term senator from illinois, hillary clinton with all the power of the clinton organization behind her, she was running 20 points ahead. people like me were saying, senator, get in the fight, will you? you're not in the fight. throw some punches. >> you're right. >> weeks and months passed and he was 20 points behind of it was almost like that thing with mohammed ali. >> rope-a-dope. >> he was letting it go and taking the punches. then we realized he and plouffe had this plan. tell this story. >> it was the plan. they knew the caucus states, they knew the primary states. they had chosen where they would do well, where they wouldn't, how they would do well. they had it all laid out. >> tim russert was following it, the late tim russert. he knew it. >> he had that piece of paper.

it was uncannily accurate. >> it was about -- their mantra was it's about the delegates. keep your eyes on the prize. don't get distracted by polls -- >> bring the movie forward to the last couple weeks. there we had people running around. i do think there's an ethnic piece to this. i know there's an ethnic piece looking at the latest numbers. people who still think he wasn't -- let's look at this number about born in the united states. still people in this country, 14% republicans, 16% conservatives who say he's not born here based on the facts. this is driving while black. this is racist. this is awful. >> absolutely right. knew all along there was a racial component, but you saw the decline, then to now, of people who actually believe that nonsense. i think those are the people that among their complaints about president obama, they didn't quite get him as commander in chief, a military

leader. >> well, they've got him now. >> they've got him now. >> what are they saying in the saloons tonight, friday night at midnight at some truck stop along the road, steak highway, what are they saying? >> he got osama bin laden. >> you think these guys are saying that? >> some of them are. >> not the 14%, okay, but the rest of them. >> i think 14% is a really good number for the president. if you get it that low on the republican side -- >> you realize what they are saying. i don't think he's an american and i don't believe he caught that guy. the other guys got him. >> that whole birther line is done with. it was killed by the birth certificate. after getting osama bin laden -- >> you think so? >> i think so. i don't think it will get any traction among the crazies who you can't get anyway. there are people beyond rational thought. you can't worry about them. maybe that's 14%. maybe that's what this poll shows.

>> they're still asking for his driver's license, these guys. >> he's now the killer of islamic terrorism. before he was an islamic terrorist. >> look, we got a crazy jobs number today. every time we get a job, number of new jobs or the rate. the rate went up to nine again. look at this, 244,000 new jobs last month. that means people going back looking for jobs that had given up. unemployment back at 9, but there is a more robust labor market out there. they are not sitting out there giving up. >> it's not robust enough. you need 150,000 to keep even with population. we lost 8 million jobs in the bush-cheney recession, 100,000 a month, it will take you a long time to get that back. >> it's cheney. >> cheney. but it's better than it was last fall. if it continues that way -- >> look at progress at your job, 268,000. the best number in five years. >> is my parameter still right? the benchmark is below eight and dropping to get re-election. >> i'd say below nine.

>> this is like limbaugh. >> i'd say below eight. >> 8.4. >> it depends on who the republican is. >> it's a good week for america. i thank the soldiers, thank you for serving you guys watching now. i mean it. and women. thank you, guys, you can tell with the mood here which side everyone seems to be on. the american side. coming up, how that we got bin laden, the facts coming up. the cia tracked him inside. they were watching him outside. it was almost like the conversation with gene hackman. they sat in the truck across the street watching this guy seeing where he went. they were looking at him through binoculars. let's take a look at cloak and dagger stuff. we're getting the fill here, as we say. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china,

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the white house released its behind the scenes footage of the night the world learned bin laden had been killed. here it is. take a look. >> this was him. the reason i'm calling you is to tell you we've killed him. >> good job, national security team. >> your guys did a great job. >> i'm proud of you. wow, "hardball with chris matthews" after this.

tom, check this out.

back to "hardball." today we learned fascinating new details about the plot that led to bin laden in the cia safe house from which agents spied on him for months. this is going to be exciting for me as well as you. greg, national intelligence reporter for "the washington post." congratulations. really, this is storytelling

time. it's good to have good news on how it was done. tell me the story of the safe house, about how our guys -- it reminded me of gene hackman in "the conversation" sitting there days and hours and weeks. they thought it was osama bin laden. >> that's right. they learned about the compound in august and bring everything they have got to figure out is it him inside. one of the things you've got to do is have people on the ground. the agency rents a house near this compound. one that's able to peer inside this place to keep eyes on things. they are watching it for probably six, seven months. >> wow, did they get a bead on him with binoculars, telescopic lens? i heard they had a mirrored window that they looked through. >> that's the amazing thing, not only watching him from the ground, but using satellite equipment trying to get his voice and they never get a clear shot at this. the cia people i talked to say the discipline bin laden demonstrated inside this compound was remarkable in itself.

>> they saw his silhouette? his figure? >> there was a figure, a tall figure that would go pacing back and forth. they even started calling him the pacer. so they were -- they thought perhaps this was him, but they could never get a clear photograph. >> is he the only guy of his height, to be blunt about it, in that part of the world? >> the difficulty is it was hard to figure out what his height was based on their inability to get a clear look at him from anywhere. >> what did they figure he was doing all day in terms of his role? some thought he was like emeritus, he used to be in al qaeda but no longer an operative but now we're getting information he was playing a role. >> he was playing a role. we're still learning what that role was. it looks like it was more extensive than thought. for years we thought maybe he's in a cave and not communicating except rarely to get audiotapes out. they found disks, dvds, so much

flash drives if there, those appear to be the way he was communicating with his network sending messages. >> thumb drives, things you took around like a disk used to be. >> those are the things that would come out of the compound, make their way through the network and get signals and directions off to others. >> let's talk about us. we are always concerned about what's next, not just anger but planning. a number of american railroads, passenger trains perhaps at the same time at one of these dramatic th dramatic 9/11/11 thing. do we know if that was his idea? >> don't know if it was his idea, but appears to be recorded in papers united bedroom where he was killed. something he was putting together or reviewing in a personal and direct way. >> i was thinking of a paradigm, almost like an organized underworld figure who gets put away for hard time. he's in prison and still calling the shots for a family, a mob

organization. >> he's got all that time. nothing else to distract him. right? he's spending all his time just thinking about those things. >> no evidence at all, it seems, because they caught him in the dark basically asleep. they rousted him. they were able to stay and have surveillance from the safe house and he never detected he was in trouble. >> that was one of the biggest worries about this operation. this is a very delicate thing for the cia to do, put people on the ground. >> were they americans or people who looked like locals -- >> when you look inside the safe house, americans, cia case operatives. >> staying undercover. >> staying inside, not venturing outside, using their equipment to monitor the compound also running networks of pakistanis. who may be pakistani-americans or -- >> sure. >> a lot of people being used to blend into this neighborhood, into this city. >> so we have really -- let me ask you the question open-ended.

have we advanced in human intelligence since 9/11? >> i think there's no doubt about that. i think, you know, the agency has learned so much, as much as the military has changed, the experiences of the war in iraq and the war in afghanistan, the agency has changed. >> we get rid of don't ask, don't tell, that will help, too, a lot of linguist people harassed. >> i don't know. >> i've followed that too. what does al qaeda look like to you globally now? is it a bunch of broken up pieces? is it still a network that communicates? >> looks al qaeda today for the first time acknowledges bin laden's death in a message they put up only. there's an appeal in there, can we hold this thing together, guys. stay economied. committed. but the biggest question, will it spiral out into a bunch of lesser, smaller, less connected organizations, because you don't have that inspirational figure there tying it all together.

>> if you were working with tsa or working with homeland security, would you fear they would go ahead with the railroad attempt on the 11th of september? >> i think that -- you would have to be prepared for all of these things. i think -- i'm sure the agencies are concerned there are people in place and scrubbing all these computers and drives looking for other plots that are just -- who knows whether they are in the planning stage. who knows how far they are towards execution. if we've learned anything it's that you can't be too fast. too safe. >> you have a fascinating role. thanks for coming on. greg miller of "the washington post" which still covers agencies of the government better than anybody. up next last night's republican presidential debate, such as it was, wasn't must-see tv? of course, the most powerful republican in the country. wait until you hear who didn't watch. tells you a lot. wait until you hear who someone else was, doing something else like having dinner, asked for a tv set to watch it on. he wasn't even asking for fox. he didn't care. wait until you hear who it was. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. [ wind howling ]

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back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. just one year ago charlie crist was governor of florida and a candidate for u.s. senate. now he's turn from public service to public pitchman. >> i'm charlie crist. if you need help sorting our legal issues as a result of an accident or dispute visit me at online. >> i thought trial lawyers were all democrats. next, did you miss the republican debate last night? well, you weren't the only one. speaker john boehner, the top republican in congress was spotted at morton's steakhouse last night enjoying a nice is dinner. when asked about the debate last

night, last night boehner said he'd read about it in the paper tomorrow. there were five debaters in the fox/republican party sponsored debate. something tells me they didn't have a winner in the bunch. this is fascinating. both the moderators and candidates last night spent much of their time talking about the candidates who did not show up. take a listen. >> a man who may join you at some point in the gop primary, former massachusetts governor mitt romney is not here. >> governor romney is not here to defend himself. >> if you had a reality tv show like donald trump does. >> i would say to newt gingrich. >> gingrich's past behavior. >> you supported governor romney in 2008. >> i love the huck. >> mike huckabee. >> donald trump. >> sarah palin. >> newt gingrich. >> michele bachmann. >> the replacements there. fifteen mentions of romney, gingrich, bulk bachmann, palin, trump. fifteen mentions of no shows. what a debate. tonight's missing in action big number.

next, inside the navy s.e.a.l.s commandos that took down bin laden. we'll meet a couple of them. we have two former s.e.a.l.s joining us to tell us how it works. what courageous people they are. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. a house that they really wanted. it was in my sister's neighborhood. i told you it was perfect for you guys. literally across the street from her sister. [ banker ] but someone else bought it before they could get their offer together. we really missed a great opportunity -- dodged a bullet there. [ banker ] so we talked to them about the wells fargo priority buyer preapproval. it lets people know that you are a serious buyer because you've been credit-approved. we got everything in order so that we can move on the next place we found. which was clear on the other side of town. [ male announcer ] wells fargo. with you when you're ready to move.

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i'm milissa rehberger. president obama is back at the white house after meeting with the s.e.a.l. team that took down osama bin laden. the coast guard is closing a stretch of the mississippi river to barge traffic, along the banks with record flooding that is not expected to crest under monday night. another launch delay for the space shuttle "endeavour." the earliest it could blast off is a week from monday. oil prices fell another 2% on wall street today, making it a 15% decline, the biggest

five-day slide in more than 30 years. employers added 240,000 jobs in april, way more than analysts were expecting. it, mas the seven straight months of slow, but steady gains. back to "hardball." >> welcome back to "hardball." we're learning new details today about just what happened when two dozen members of the super elite s.e.a.l. team 6 stormed 9 compound. according to jim miklaszewski, the s.e.a.l.s came under fire right away. bin laden's courier shot at them when they first raided the compound. the s.e.a.l.s returned fire killing him. as they raced up the stairs, they shot and killed bin laden's 19-year-old son on the second floor. the commandos looked up to discover bin laden himself peering down over the railing above. they fired on him but missed as he ran back into his bedroom.

two young girls suddenly ran from that room. one s.e.a.l. grabbed and pulled them out of the line of fire. that's when two other s.e.a.l.s rushed the bedroom. one shot bin laden's wife in the leg as she approached. the other shot bin laden twice at close range killing him. the president obama watched the whole operation in real time from the situation room at the white house. hours ago he met privately with members of that team, the s.e.a.l. team 6. here is what the president said moments ago after meeting those commandos who pulled off the most high-profile operation in the history of the s.e.a.l.s. >> they chose to serve in a time of war knowing they could be sent into harm's way. they trained for years. they are battle hardened. they practiced tirelessly for this mission. when i gave the order, they were ready. in recent days, the whole world has learned just how ready they were.

these americans deserve credit for one of the greatest intelligence and military operations in our nation's history. >> here to give us some insight on what it's like to be a s.e.a.l. on a daring mission. john mcgwire with me, a s.e.a.l. for ten years, operating in europe, asia, south central america and served on s.e.a.l. team 4. eric greitens served as commander of an al qaeda targeting cell, as well as special operations task unit. he's reservist and author of the book "the heart and the fist, the education of a humanitarian, the making of a navy s.e.a.l." gentlemen, so much an honor to have you on the program, it's an amazing historic week. i want to start with john who's with me. we've gotten to know you a little bit here. when you get the call, as the president talked about, what was in the heart of a s.e.a.l.? >> it's on. let's do it. it's an honor. a lot of weight or thought of the american country, people

affected by the terrorist, all the terror he's done around the world. just an honor, ready to go. >> this sense you're going in basically for the kill, going after the ultimate world's bad guy who's probably going to fight to the death, either way it's going to be dangerous. it's going to be to get him. is there a special fear about the firepower turned out to not be a lot here, but you're not going to get him easy. >> there's a lot of unknowns but you have a job to do. the one thing is the mission, you follow orders, get the mission done and protect your teammates. >> let me go to eric. thank you for joining us. you're still in the service. thank you for your service. >> you're welcome. >> tell me what you can tell us about what's in the heart and mind and guts of somebody that can swim like a fish, be an air trooper, paratrooper, swim, drop, what can't you do, drop you in deep water from an airplane, swim for hours, fight crocodiles. what can't you guys do?

>> well, s.e.a.l.s are sea, air and land commandos. the whole idea is that s.e.a.l.s are able to come from the sea, come over land or in this case as we saw on sunday night, come from the air. in order to develop that kind of capability, they go through the hardest military training in the world. it's called b.u.d.s., it's called buds. basic underwater demolition s.e.a.l.s training. it's a training that's designed to push people to their mental, physical and emotional limits, to really push people and see how they coalesce as a team when they come together under pressure. we saw sunday night the great results of that training. >> what is it in your blood pressure that keeps you cool, is it in your brain soup? or are you trained for that? >> you're trained. it's rehearsal. they said on the news they spent four months preparing for this, every contingency. a lot of things didn't go exactly right such as the helicopter going down. with all the planning they have, they didn't miss a beat. >> what about understanding the politics of what you're doing? how much do you need to know in an operation like this? everybody knows who osama bin laden is. you know what al qaeda is.

do you have to have that context? >> you have that context but you follow orders, do your job. >> eric, let me go back to you about the mission. what dangers were there? when you look at this mission, they are dropped in by helicopters. helicopters are the nicest things to fly in but my experience are the least reliable of any aircraft. they don't have a great track record. they do let you down. i remember desert 1. we all do. >> the lessons of desert 1 really helped to create modern special operations community. of course here the helicopters presented a danger but there's all sorts of things that can go wrong in any operation. that's why teams like this prepare relentlessly. they practice time and time and time again in order to be prepared for any contingency that's going to happen on the target so they can react. lots of dangers here at the tactical level and even, of course, at the strategic level. that's why this group of warriors was chosen to go in and execute what was an incredibly high-profile operation.

>> president obama told steve croft of "60 minutes" what the biggest concern was sending in those commandos. here is the exchange between kroft and the president. >> what was the most difficult part? i mean, you had to decision, this was your decision -- >> yeah. >> -- whether to proceed or not and how to proceed. what was the most difficult part of that decision? >> my number one concern was if i send them in, can i get them out? a lot of the discussion we had during the course of planning was how do we make sure there's backup? how do we make sure there's redundancy built into the plan so that we ever the best chance of getting our guys out? >> when we fight in these situations we don't know the relationship with pakistanis, one village differs from another, in terms of friendliness, lack of friendliness. do people think about black hawk down, desert one. what's your worst-case situation? where the people turn on you or what?

>> you have to cover every dayses. plan ever continge sill. it's all about teamwork, leadership, confidence. when you're on a team, it takes everyone to succeed. when you're on a team, everyone counts on everyone to do their job. these guys, like he said, put so many hours in to get it done. >> how do the s.e.a.l.s -- this wasn't marine, coming in from the water. why do you think the s.e.a.l.s got this call? >> these particular s.e.a.l.s are seasoned, a little older, a lot of missions and experience behind them. they are very good, do their best. >> what do you think of these simulations, good? >> i wasn't there. i'm not much of a computer guy. >> it's amazing. >> amazing. >> what do you think of the simulations we've been watching? i'm amazed at nbc's ability to do this. is that about right? >> i wasn't there. i wasn't on the ground. it would be hard to say how accurate they actually are. they certainly look good, chris. >> let me ask you about contingency. again, redundancy seems to be a big part of this, to have more

soldiers than you absolutely need, more choppers than you absolutely need. the idea two went in, one went down, right? you had a third that went in and replaced one of the first two. you had another one as a back-up. basically doubling the helicopters you need to get the job done. it seems like we're really, as you said, eric, living in the days after desert one. no more sending in just enough helicopters to do the job. carter was short, what, one, and couldn't go through with the operation. >> what they want to do is relentlessly plan and think about anything that might go wrong so they can then react to the situation and keep the focus on achieving that mission, which was obviously eliminating bin laden and pulling intelligence off the targets. as you practice, one of the things you're going to do is step back each time and figure out what the lessons learned were so you get better each time you're practicing. one of the things we have to recognize, it was that tremendous dedication to practice, that tremendous

dedication to service. a lot of these guys have been at this for almost a decade that actually led to the successful operation on sunday night. >> you guys are great explainers in addition to what you do. you're good physically and orally. this is a good presentation today. i don't know where we got you guys from but thank you eric, john. thank you for your service. up next ideology meets reality. republicans are already running away from -- remember their plan to kill medicare? not as popular as three weeks ago. we'll talk a look at that. this is "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪ [ horn honks ] ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] humble beginnings are true beginnings.

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primary voters two new polls suffolk and university of new hampshire. romney's showing isn't a surprise, considering he was governor of neighboring massachusetts and has a house in new hampshire. the only other republican registering in the double digit is donald trump, 11% on the unh poll. we'll be right back. hi, dad. we need to talk. [ male announcer ] this intervention brought to you by niaspan. no, it's not about boys. it's about you. mom and i are worried about your health. yes, you're exercising, eating right, but the doctor said it's not enough. he's concerned about the plaque clogging your arteries. the doctor said you have coronary artery disease. he even told you about adding a cholesterol medicine that may help...niaspan. and you've done what? nothing. [ male announcer ] if you have high cholesterol

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paul ryan has an idea that's certainly worthy of consideration in terms of how do we do this in a more efficient way. >> it's our idea. >> it's paul's idea. other people have other ideas. i'm not wedded to one single idea, but i think it's -- we have a plan. >> wow, we're back. that was house speaker john boehner in late april talking about -- that was only a few

days ago talking about the republican plan to end medicare. the gop leadership seems to be blaming the democrats and president for not going forward with the ryan plan. but is this republicans whipping out a tough fight ahead or do they realize it's a losing issue with republicans? for more on this and republican debate last night, i'm joined by chris cillizza and roger simon, chief political columnist. roger, you can tell, slip sliding away. >> oh, yeah. >> a definite article and indefinite article instead of the plan, a plan. it's paul's plan. >> boehner is not going to swallow the suicide pill along with paul. he's just not going to do it. >> this happened rather quickly. what happened? two weeks ago they all voted for it but four republicans. what happened? >> what happened was the realization is there's no constituency for this plan. nobody wants it except a few people in think tanks. the house just got rolled because they were on this high.

it's just like president bush's desire to privatize social security. we talked about it for months. nobody in the country wanted it. >> here is a disconnect. we want to go right to the thing afterwards. this is so instructive. let's hold this moment watching. this is more important than anything you do. it's to understand what words mean. americans like social security. my dad was as republican as you can get and he liked medicare. for the first time in his life something was being paid for that he paid into. he was getting something back for all the years of working since he was 18. okay. americans like social security. they don't think of it as welfare. they think i paid it in and i'm getting it back. very middle-class attitude. we go on this frank luntz thing last night and everybody calling obama a socialist. one thing they say i want this for america. roosevelt, johnson did this,

but it's mine now, my america, and then every one of those people in the focus group say he's a socialist. what is it? are they socialists? are they republican socialists? >> i think we expect there's logic to everyone's thought. if i'm for social security and medicare. >> it's not socialism. >> right. but there isn't, chris. the trust of the matter, we've seen this over the last couple of elections, people have a patchwork electoral approach, philosophy. independents go for democrats by 18 points in 2006. they go for republicans by 19 points in 2010. not that much changed in those four years. >> what do they mean when they say socialism -- >> they are picking up on the buzzwords i would say. >> one person's weed is another person's flower. >> speaking of weed, did you hear that the republican party last night is the dope party? what do you make of that? >> it's heroin. >> legalize heroin, horse?

>> libertarians just don't care what general public thinks of them. they are not going to get elected president. they can go into debates and be terrific. they can be strong. they can be decisive. because they don't care. if you're tim pawlenty, poor tim pawlenty who wants to be president, you've got to be careful. >> and we argue about steroids. you go to jail if you use them, and he's legalizing heroin. he and the other guide, former governor of new mexico he wants to legalize marijuana, not that controversial but this the conservative party. >> here's the problem. >> they're loopy. >> this is why -- to roger's point. this is why it's an odd thing tim pawlenty participated. i get why. he figures fox news channel, a lot of republican viewers, this will expos me, but you're playing with different rules than other people. >> there's two republican parties, the establishment republican party that to hold hold office, and the tea party.

here is frank luntz's focus group. he's the pick of the group watching. it's an amazing result. here is his favorite line from last night. let's listen. >> one of the biggest problems we have with this country right now is too much government intervention in trying to tell businesses what they do best, which is create jobs. government doesn't create jobs, businesses create jobs. >> this is ronald reagan stuff. this is motivational speaking. >> a republican talking point. >> what does he mean, government's have been telling businesses where to put their businesses. what's new. you want to put a factory in a

nice neighborhood? >> as smart as he is, i would listen to him about whether to get deep dish or regular pizza, but not how to get people back to work. >> that clip and there was one other somebody asked, you have only been a businessman. he said we have elected a lot of politicians, how is that working for you? >> what does that mean? >> the republican party, we learned in the 2010 party, the republican party of today wants someone to say politicians do not know what is going on. we need to get government out of people's lives. he's an effective mess eveninger. it's what the bulk of the republican party's message is. >> let's get back to an earlier poll. we asked people about whether he's an american or not. a simple question. he showed every id card.

still, among republicans, it's 1-7. they are the kind of people that show up at the caucuses and primaries. are they that crazy? >> in my opinion, what cain is trying to cap into is different than that. they are not going to prove it to people that don't want to listen. i think there are some of them that were republican voters, but i think herman cain is tapping into something else. mitt romney is going to talk like that. i bet pawlenty does. he said it's not the last time you are going to hear that. >> i have to agree with chris. focus groups are not minipolls. they should not be used to ask who won. they reflect only the opinions of the people in the room.

a legitimate of the -- give me a word that you associate with this candidate or that candidate. they are not meant to be if 78% of the focus group likes cane, 78% of the voters do. absolutely false. the media, not just people are confused on that point. >> thank you. it's great to see you. have a nice weekend. mother's day is coming up. when we return, let me finish with some of the things a sane person could take away. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. d back down the hill. down the hill? man: all right. we were actually thinking, maybe... we're going to hike up here, so we'll catch up with you guys. [ indistinct talking and laughter ] whew! i think it's worth it.

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let me finish tonight with what sane people learned this week. by sane i mean people able to pay attention to what they see, aren't afraid to see and don't get it confused with something they're convinced of. here we go. i learned that people on the right want the picture of dead osama bin laden plastered all over the universe. they don't care if it incites anger, insults whole nations gets muslim kids radicalized. in fact, i think they'd like to stick it to them and see how loud they squeal, how many being leave the hornet's nest. normal people are put off by violence and death hillary clinton's picture should be sent. all though the united states did

what they had to do with bin laden, the u.s. doesn't particularry enjoy the killing of people. what is it with the republican right? sarah palin wants that picture out everywhere, says it's part of the mission. what mission? to encourage easier recruitment of arab youth? teenagers who grow to say, age 20, and kill themselves? you have to wonder where the palins on the world, the ones on the right, really want to keep stirring up this war on terrorism because it's something they can really get their heads into. can rouse their right-wing brigades with. what else did we learn this week? clear-thinking people, those not bound up in prejudice and tunnel vision give credit where it's due. they are not afraid to see what they see. they see obama gets credit for the success in catching the bad guy, and the intelligence and military services, solid admiration as well. they don't crouch down in the fetal position because they don't like what's going on around them and snap back at pollsters and say george bush deserves the praise and obama doesn't.

how deep is the hole these people live in? and most of all, america is protected by very good and competent people. they don't get on television, they don't say crazy things, say hey, look at me. they roll out of the bed every morning, and consider themselves lucky to be serving a country like ours. this week, much like the terrible week in september a decade ago, we remember men and women like this, sometimes so close we can touch them, like those dutiful firefighters who went running up the stairs while everyone else was running down. they are still there. we know, of course. so often courageous just in showing up for work each day. that's the big thing we saw this week. we're as lucky to have these gutsy men and women, as we all are, to be americans. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for watching. a happy mother as day to all the mothers out there. the last word with lawrence