i don't think a 17-year-old should be awake this early. >> i think you're doing the right thing. get up early and play video games all day and night. we're going to be okay, america. what else? >> karen writes up all night restoring a crashed website. finished now, and waiting for the dns to propogate. sorry to bore with nerd talk. your show is doing a service by keeping me awake. >> god bless you. i'm just glad you're watching. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ i'm free ♪ free falling >> don't make too much of any one month's job report because they're highly variable. you want to look at a little bit of a trend to get a more accurate barometer. we have moved a long way from when the economy is in a rescue mode, the private sector's in freefall and the government is the only thing standing between us and falling into another great depression. our effort now, as a government,

should be to get the private sector to help them stand up and lead the recovery. we've got to rely on government policies that are trying to leverage the private sector and give incentives to the private sector to be doing the growth. >> okay. good morning. it is monday, june 6th. beautiful shot of new york city. with us on set, msnbc and "time" magazine senior editor mark halperin, also steve rattner. >> june 6th, a great historical day. >> of course. >> and everybody through the years, june 6th, what do you think? it's carly's birthday. how old is she? >> that's right. i have two teenagers. 13. she's 13. >> oh, my lord, that is a horrible age. happy birthday. i know gigt to be a great one. >> she's perfect. >> and, of course, d-day. one of the great thrills -- have

you been to normandy. >> i have been there several times. extraordinary experience. it's amazing to see. but those americans especially climbing up those cliffs. >> you walk on the beaches now and walk on the cliffs. >> really? >> and it's 9:30, 10:00 at night. i don't think i've seen a more beautiful place on earth, just knowing what those young kids did that morning. >> it's one of the few historical places you can go and feel the history, feel what it was like. >> you can see it. you can see bomb craters, the cemeteries and think about the greatest generation. an extraordinary group of men that climbed those cliffs. >> have you been to normandy? >> yes, the sing the most chill-induging moment of my life. >> 2011, so -- >> 67 years. >> 67 years ago, wow. wow. all right. a lot to talk about.

and i think washington, specifically the white house, still jolted by friday's numbers. >> well, they were bad. i mean, i'm not sure how you can say it's just a maybe we can ask rattner before we launch into news. is it fair so say you can't be shaken by one month's job numbers? they were pretty bad. >> one month does not a trend make, does an economy make but they come on the heals that say we're in a soft spot. the economy has decelerated a bit over the last couple months. the gdp numbers will not be that strong when they come out. i don't believe it's a double dip recession. i believe it's a period of slower growth but it did create that terrible problem on unemployment where you don't see the unemployment rate going down. >> steve, what happened, six to nine months ago we started to see positive numbers, everybody

was starting to get excited about the fact it looked like we were turning the corner, unemployment rate went down, and then everything -- is it gas prices? stimulus money coming to an end? what has caused this step back? >> the short answer is you can't be sure because you don't know. economies do have uneven roefrz. it's never a straight line up. we had the same situation in the spring and summer of '10 when it slowed down a bit and we got worried, as we should. gas prices certainly play a role. i think, frankly, what's going on in washington plays a role. i think confidence is a key part of an economy. john maynard called it animal spirit but you need a sense of confidence. i don't know who can look at washington and have a sense of confidence, buy a new car, buy a home, or do the things you want consumers to do to get this economy going again. >> mark halperin, the political impact, you don't to want overplay it. again, the job numbers could be great next month, we could be

down to 8.8%, but at least for this weekend, and i suspect for the next two to three weeks until we get a better idea of what next month's job numbers look like, the white house has completely got the white house back on their heels, sort of double down. there's been a feeling privately in the white house that this was going to be a walk. look who their opponents were. they don't feel that way anymore. republicans are feeling a little more excited this weekend about their prospects. >> if there's a strong republican nominee, he or she can win. that's a reality the white house knows. before the recent bad economic new, the white house could say, we know a lot of people are still hurting but things are getting better. unless things change dramatically, they're caught in a narrative of, things are bad. the president doesn't want to be pessimisttic or backward looking but he he doesn't have any great

ideas to be forward looking. >> neutralizes the roepublicans looking like villain on medicare. >> the suspect in a terrible, terrible situation. he's at a crossroads where you've got debt and a weak economy. he inherited a massive debt. he did. i would suggest he didn't make it a whole lot better. but he's got a terrible debt. so, what you would normally do, either cut taxes or raise spending, they tried. they tried when he first got into office. they tried again after the 20 10 elections. the president just doesn't have a lot of good options at his disposal. >> the president acknowledge the economy took a big hit on friday but maintains the country is still making progress and that recovery takes time. as you heard earlier, his top economic adviser, austan goolsbee says their helping private sector job growth and tried to downplay the new

unemployment numbers. but nancy pelosi blames current economic problems on the bush administration saying president obama has improved the situation since he took office. >> if he hadn't taken the actions he did, the situation would be worse. he pulled us from the brink of a financial crisis, from an economic crisis, and now we have to dig out of a deep -- a deep debt. and we have to also make it clear we're not getting into this situation again. >> so, steve, how do we -- how does the president balance stagnant economy, a massive debt where if things keep getting worse we could be to 90% of gdp as far as debt goes. what does he do? >> you saw austan cleverly try ang late his way around it. he talked about inheriting the bad economy but we know that's not winning politics in the end because they own it. he talked about how this is one number and you can't make too much of it.

then he said, look, we've added 2 million jobs, the economy is still recovering and we expect more of the same. as mika explained, we're in a box policywise. we don't have maneuvering room to start doing stimulus promz on the fiscal side. the only policy option when you have gridlock in washington is steady as you go and hope the economy picks up speed. there's a reasonable chance of that. >> if you were either advising the president or if you were the president yourself at this point, that would be your only option, steady as it goes? >> you have to distinguish between being president and god. if i were president, i don't think have you a lot of maneuvering because of the political reasons pep could propose a jobs bill, some things -- >> so, what if you could pass anything you proposed, what would you -- >>fy were god, i would rearrange a lot of what goes on here. i would reanarng the nature of our federal spending, more devoted to investment,

infrastructure, things that great jobs and productivity in the future, and i would deal with the deficit but i wouldn't deal with it tomorrow. it's more of a next year problem in terms of when we cut it back. but then major, major changes in the deficit at that point. >> a lot of people listening to that say, didn't we have a huge stimulus package and why are we pouring more money into something that didn't work originally? >> but it did work. >> they would say it -- >> but it did work. this is a point people miss. the stimulus did work. if we didn't have that stimulus program, unemployment -- that this has been studied by serious economists. unemployment would be several points higher, gdp would be hundreds of billions lower. it actually did work. have you to look at it in terms of what did happen, not why are we -- >> so are you saying -- the white house said if we didn't -- or if we pass the stimulus, unemployment wouldn't get over 8%. >> that was a mistake. >> are you saying that if the stimulus had not been passed, what would we be, 12 %, 13%?

>> yeah, absolutely. >> when sdo we get beyond -- >> was it not targeted at jobs? the question for people that don't have jobs is where did all that money go? if it was supposed to be for infrastructure, we talked about shovel-ready projects -- >> it went to a hodgepodge of things inevitably a political koch compromises. but it kept the unemployment rate out of the double digits. the 8% number was a mistake the administration acknowledged. they never should have put a number out there. but if you compare it using every economic model known to man, it clearly was the right thing to do at the time. >> it should have been bigger was the only fault n your estimation? >> in retrospect, it should have been bigger. obama administration wanted it to be bigger. congress wouldn't pass anything bigger. >> the president needs to deal with the deficit. he'll strike a big deal, to

reensure his election, or fail, and it will be horrible for the economy. >> look at the front page of "usa today." i don't know what camera we can get it on. the image itself, what comes after hope? you pull down the poster of president obama, it's jobs, growth, economy. this is the question really that could define the election. maybe not medicare after all, you know, which could -- if a good republican emerges, a good republican candidate emerges. >> that's a big if. mark, you said you went to some events -- went to an event this weekend, and they just all fell flat. >> right now none of the republicans has captured the public imagination. sarah palin's big foek -- big focus on sarah palin makes it harder for them. tim pawlenty tomorrow is giving a speech on the economy. mitt romney will come guard with an economic plan relatively soon. someone has to, if the republicans are going to win, someone has to have a set of economic policies that people believe in, that give them hope that there's an alternative. right now none of them are doing

it. >> sarah palin was in the news over the weekend, responding to criticism that she took the spotlight away from mitt romney's official campaign launch in new hampshire last week. the former alaska governor held events in the granite state the same day romney made his announcement. we talked about that on friday. now palin has apologized to romney on fox news. take a look. >> i think there's a curiosity factor there still that's in play. i don't know. but, you know, i apologize if i stepped on any of that pr that mitt romney needed or wanted that day. i do sincerely apologize. we didn't mean to step on anybody's toes. >> you -- there are a lot of people think you love stepping on his toes. >> not his. i'll step on -- i'll step on the toes of those who are making poor decisions for our nation. >> wow. willie geist, why didn't she just say i apologize to the little man for stepping on him.

that was -- >> i'm sorry, i just can't help it. i'm -- >> i just go where the bus takes me. >> wow. >> we're not going to elect a president who doesn't know what paul reveer is doing when he got on his horse and started riding around boston. >> mark hall principl, the repu establishment by this point really little put off by sarah palin. basically saying either jump in or stop taking all the oxygen. what is this side show for? >> you know, i still think, as i think mika does, she's going to run and she's always intended to if the window is there. the window is still there, if she handles herself still there. yes, media mock her, but for the people that might vote for her, she's making herself pretty available. none of the big three candidates are breaking out. none of them are going to run away from the pack any time soon. that leaves her options wide

open. >> wow. >> okay. >> you don't think she's going to run anymore? >> oh, no, i -- >> do you think she has? >> i think kool-aid has remarkable effects on people if they drink too much of it. wouldn't someone who doesn't stand out maybe be attractive, like a mitt romney or someone at this point, given the entire conversation we've just had? >> i don't think you can get elected president without creating excitement. i just don't think you can. >> okay. >> willie, speaking of excitement, last night's nba championship game. >> another great game. >> wow. >> the heat almost blew another lead. remember, they blew the 15-point lead a couple nights ago. last night they had a 14-point game and the game came down to the last shot at the buzzer, which we'll show you shortly. >> now, that's a -- >> cliffhanger. >> we have a big show. oracle of omaha, warren buffett, talk to steny hoyer, and also the great carole king will be on

set. after the break, why politico says democrats could take back the house in 201. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, mika. hope everyone in the east has enjoyed cool weather because the rest of the country baked this week. do you believe it was 105 yesterday in houston? their hottest temperature they've ever seen in june. that hot air is going to slide to the east coast wednesday and thursday. so, today the hot weather continues from texas northwards to minneapolis, even chicago and st. louis will get a taste of it. by the time we get to the end of this week, though, that's when all the hot stuff will slide to the eastern seaboard. looks to be short lived, only wednesday and thursday. just to give you an indication, look at washington, d.c. 95 to near 98 degrees on wednesday and thursday. then it cools off into friday. around the country today, not a lot of wet weather to deal with, just hot conditions the entire southern half of the country. by we get to tomorrow, we'll see the warm-up on the eastern

seaboard. areas like new york city with a chance near 98 by thursday. you're watching "morning joe" on a very hot week brewed by starbucks.

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♪ 19 past the hour. live look at capitol hill as the sun comes up over washington. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the financial times. nato countries have raised the assault on moammar gadhafi. for the first time in the 11-week bombardment, french and british helicopters are being

used to escalate air attacks. >> "the new york times" -- musicians gathered yesterday in central park protesting the park's new quiet zones. it bans singing and strumming. among the new noise areas, bethesda fountain and strawberry fields, the memorial for john lennon, kind of strange if you've ever gone up there on december 8th. >> yeah. >> the anniversary of his death. it's a place where people come to celebrate. >> year-round they do, scrum guitars, hang out at strawberry fields. >> that's a weird place. but how is that even associated with music, right? i mean, come on, it seems logical. what? i just don't get it. i'm sorry. >> the airplane famous for its 2009 miracle on the hudson landing hit the road this weekend for its final destination, a museum in north carolina. the trip hit a snag in morristown, new jersey, where the flatbed trailer was too wide for the intersection and it was

stuck there for about an hour. >> all right. time for politico. >> let's go to politico, executive editor jim vandehei down in d.c. >> good morning. >> you guys have some reporting this morning, you've done a little math saying democrats may be able to take back the house next fall. how did you come up with that? >> there's a couple things at play. democrats need to pick up about 25 seats. most people think it's impossible or at least improbable. i don't think that's the case for a couple of reasons. one, look what happened in that new york special election. democrats want a seat held by republicans for 50 years. forget about that one race. look at the broader context of it. that is very much about medicare. democrats have found an issue that does resonate with independents. independents are all that matter in politics, particularly in control of the house. when democrats want control of the house in 2006 they won independence by almost 20 point.

when republicans won it back in 2010, they won independents by 20 points. you need an issue that resonates with independents and medicare might be that issue. on top of that you have some interesting redistricting things happening in different states, including in illinois, where republicans got rolled by democrats. democrats are about to put the official stamp on a plan that could cost as many as five different republicans in illinois alone their seat in 2010. you have all the fixings there for the potential for democrats to be able to win back control of the house. there's so much volatility in politics you can never rule that out. the last three elections we had a change in control of the house, a change in the number of seats, a net number of 20 plus for three straight elections which hasn't happened since the 1940s. >> mark, does that match up with what you're seeing out there? another question, is it possible to overstate the message and lessons of new york, is that the big medicare lesson? >> jim phrased it right, has the potential there, which was not

possible for democrats to make a big deal of it. as mika suggested before, the budget talks easily are going to overwhelm the dynamics that led into new york 26. either a deal or not. nancy pelosi says no deal involving medicare cuts. if there are no cuts, there will be no deal and the terrain will be unpredictable. i'm not sure who that fay favor not. >> i have so to say doing nothing on medicare, and every morning i castigate both parties, but if you're democrats, the field is breaking your way. actually, nancy pelosi is right. if she wants to be speaker again, no deal is best for democrats. >> best for house democrats, not necessarily best for the president. >> exactly. one thing we've been talking about, and jim i'm curious what you think, we've been talking about the economy. we hear people vote the pocketbooks and i assume that's the case in presidential campaigns. you know, i just haven't seen it all the time in congressional

campaigns. we took over the house in '94 when the economy was pretty darn good. a lot of times, like you said, it's these big issues. health care in 2010. in 2006 it was iraq. if in 2012 it's medicare, i think -- i think those independents still could break democratic even if the economy is terrible. >> i think that is right. 2006 was also about corruption, you'll recall. it's often one big issue to get independents fired up and uses the party to motivate a swing bloc, normally older voters. a reason people don't go after medicare because for the last 20 years in politics, the lesson is, you get crushed every time you do. smart politics says, listen, don't do anything to medicare, take that problem, keep pushing it off and try to win politically. there's no reason to think those dynamics have changed despite slight tweaks in poll numbers over the last couple months. >> i want to ask you about afghanistan. "the new york times" reporting

this morning that president obama's national security team is considering a bigger troop pullout from that country than had been considered recently. we've heard numbers from 2,000 to 5,000, according to this report, it could be more. all this as bob gates spoke to troops in kandahar over the weekend saying he's confident the u.s. will remain in the country until the job is done. listen to gates. >> if it were up to me, i'd leave the shooters to last. nobody wants to give up the gains that have been won at such a hard cost. and nobody wants to give our allies the excuse to run for the exits. >> jim, what does that mean for the president when you have the defense secretary coming out publicly saying, we ought to hang in here and not let the losses go by the wayside when the president is looking for a way out? what does that mean? >> there's deep divisions inside this white house about whether or not they should expedite the withdrawal. that scheduled withdrawal is only 3,000 to 5,000 troops out of 100,000 troops in afghanistan.

and the thing that obama has to be worried about is congress. he's losing congress. he lost the american public a long time ago. but he's losing congress. not just republicans, but also democrats. norm dix last week told us he's potentially in favor of a quicker withdrawal. when you start to lose your most staunch supporters, you have big problems. congress itself could force obama's hands because they need that money. it gets back to the economic issue joe was talking about. they have to find savings somewhere. and given we got bin laden, given people don't think it's a winnable war, it's an obvious place for congress to go. >> let me tell about you this front page story "the new york times" is all about. if the past is prologued. there's some division in the white house about this. gates came out, they didn't want the headlines going through the week 37 yes, we're going to stay there much longer. i've always found, and if anybody around this table sees

it differently than me, let me know, but whenever there are deep divisions inside the white house, especially in a democratic white house, between the hawks and the do you havves hawks always win. especially going into election year. as much as i believe we should withdrawal as quickly as possible, i don't see the president exposing himself politically that way. if you got secretary gates who's the most disciplined -- one of the most disciplined guys in this administration, i don't think he would just say that in afghanistan unless he knew that they were going to be having a very modest withdrawal. >> well, or that he's on his farewell tour, he's going to be going and he wants to put his stake in the ground as a legacy thing to have everybody know where he stood as the administration makes this decision. we do need an exit strategy. i would have thought the death of bin laden would give us cover to start an exit strategy and

that seems to be the debate in white house. >> when petraeus weighs in, i think what gates has said, and that's going to be giving the hawks a strong hand. >> petraeus's replacement agrees with petraeus, keep the troops there. unfortunately, i don't see more than modest withdrawals. >> 5,000 could be the maximum this summer. jim vandehei, thanks so much. appreciate it. still ahead, we'll bring in congressman steny hoyer. as we said, a great fin niche last night's game three of the nba finals. dwyane wade and dirk nowitzki trade shot for shot down the stretch. >> what happens? >> as miami blows another double digit lead. too much on your plate?

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all right, live shot of times square in new york city. and it's not raining. welcome back to "morning joe." 32 past the hour. israel is bracing for more violence after clashes between israeli troops and pro-palestinian protesters turned deadly. soldiers open fire yesterday at syrian demonstrators trying to cross the border in golan heights between israel and syria.

20 people were reportedly killed and hundreds wounded. the violence came on the had 4th anniversary of israel's capture of the golan heights and second outbreak of violence in the area in less than a month. this weekend's death toll in golan heights was the worst since israel and syria fought a war in the area in 1973. firefighters battling arizona's third largest wildfire ever say the blaze has expanded by several thousand acres. the flames have forced hundreds of people from their home in the eastern part of the state. officials say they expect a forecast of high winds and lightning to fan the flames today. more than 100,000 acres of forest have been destroyed in the region. authorities now say containment is at zero percent. that's a quick look at the news. now time for sports with willie geist. >> let's do some sports, as promised. we kept you hanging because we know you don't have, access to the internet. pivotal game three in the nba finals beten heat and

mavericks. series tied one game apiece coming into last night affair. dallas back at home after that comeback win in game to. but miami has yet to lose two consecutive games throughout the playoff. end of the first quarter, look at this move. lebron. check that again. how does he get this to the rim, you ask yourself? throwing down a monster dunk. heat up five at the half. let's go to the fourth quarter. dallas had been down 14 but they come all the way back. dirk nowitzki, game-tying two-handed slam. 84-84. next possession, dwyane wade, pull-up jumper. he had 29 for the heat to lead the way. now nowitzki's turn, back and forth. a tough fadeaway jumper over haslem, who's about 6'10", ties the game 86-86. dirk had 34 but chris bosh with a jumper under a minute to play. gives miami the lead, a 20-footer from the baseline, his biggest shot with heat. one more shot for dirk. five second to go. notice wit ski ski one-on-one, the rainbow fadeaway that would

have tied the game does not go. miami wins 88-86 taking a 2-1 series lead. game four tomorrow night if dallas. baseball now. this was the scene in st. louis on saturday. albert pujols beating the cubs with a walkoff home run in the bottom of the 12th. there's saturday. >> that guy's crazy, crazy weekend. >> cubs and cardinals back at it yesterday. the game once again goes into extra innings. with pujols at the plate, do you pitch around him? let's watch. >> yeah, of course. >> 30th career relief appearance for lopez. 2-1 pitch. high drive. well hit. and he has done it again. >> pujols makes the cubs pay again. another walkoff home run. this one in the 10th inning. st. louis comes from behind to beat the cubs 3-2. cubs have lost six consecutive games. watch what carlos zambrano had

to say about his teammates after the game. >> we're playing like a aaa team. this is embarrassing. embarrassing for the team, for the owners, embarrassing for the fans. embarrassing. that's -- this is -- that's the word here for the team, for this team. we should know better than this. we should know better than what we do on the field. we should know ryan is not a good baseball hitter. wernd know that as a team. we should play better here. we stinks. >> we stinks, says carlos zambrano. >> we say that about ourselves. look at this headline, new york post today -- >> can you believe it? >> tex message: bring on the red sox. >> three game series starts tomorrow. big headline in new york post. >> i'm very excited.

go sox! i saw the game yesterday up in fenway. >> you go to the game? >> very exciting. very exciting. >> you did not need to show that. that was nothing about that. >> tennis? >> i love tennis. an amazing match. >> french opener, federer and nadal facing off on the red clay. nice exchange. federer did challenge nadal earlier. as mark tells me, the clay belongs to nadal. >> he does say that. >> federer hits the ball long, drops to the ground, 25-year-old spaniard, six title, his tenth grand slam championship overall. best ever. >> no, chris everett was best ever. i've never seen anybody dominate. >> this is nadal's surface, red clay. >> that's what he was telling me. >> nobody can beat this guy on clay. >> not on clay.

>> so, who's the best ever? >> could be federer. >> i think a couple years ago -- >> could be federer. >> i always thought it was -- i don't know. >> i can tell you my favorite ever was -- >> mcenroe. >> that's your kind of guy. >> well, you know, borg and mcenroe, that was the frazier/ali. >> golden age. >> that and billie jean king and -- >> what's coming up next, willie? >> sports, traffic, weather. >> one more note, plaxico burress getting out of month, 34 years old. up next, thousands of people around the world taking part in protests. mark, can you read this? >> they're called sput walks and a washington post op-ed asked if they're the future of feminism. jessica joins us next to explain

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♪ expertise matters. find it at northern trust. 42 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." welcome is jessica who wrote in "the washington post" this -- some young women are taking to the streets to protest sexual assault, wearing not much more than what their foremothers once dubbed objects of female oppression called slutwalks, which is a controversial name, which is in part why the organizers picked it. it's also why many of the slutwalk protesters are wearing

soless. what women wear, what they drink or how they behave can make them a target for rape inspect a feminist movement often fighting simply to hold ground, sground. >> thank you. this went up online friday. washingtonpost.com, number one story all weekend. it answers -- it's a fascinating punch back at those people who say, yes, she got raped, but -- >> there's a story in the news. >> she got sexually assaulted -- >> texas where a rape -- a young girl was wearing -- >> yeah, an 11-year-old girl in texas who was gang raped and "the new york times" covered the story. for whatever reason they felt it was okay to talk about the fact that this 11-year-old dressed older than her age, that she wore makeup. >> very timely. >> as if that had anything to do with the fact that 18 grown men

made the decision to rape her. so, this is obviously a really common occurrence, women being blamed for what they wear. the slutwalks really started after a cop in toronto told a group of college students that if women wanted to avoid rape, they should stop dressing like sluts. >> there you go from there. so, your main point in your piece is what? >> that this is really the future of feminism. it's really exciting. it's a controversial word, to be sure, and i don't think everyone will get behind it, but there are thousands of women in the street, you know, what started as a one, local action has turned into a real global phenomenon. there are more than 75 marches being planned across the world. >> now, listen, in the piece you also say, and i think this is a really good point, because you say there's always a but to the conversation. like, of course, a woman should not be blamed for -- but, but, but. what are those buts, first of all? >> should she know better than

to wear suggestive clothing. there's been research on rape and none has shown a link between what a woman wears and whether she gets attacked but there is a link between whether a woman gets blamed for that attack. >> using the word "but" in the conversation is totally, completely ridiculous. having said that, have you a daughter. >> i do. >> i have daughters. very interesting experience in my own background. i just wonder, would you want your daughter to wear those clothes? why wouldn't you if the answer is no? >> you know, i think it's really sad. i think like most women, i've been called a slut, my daughter growing up in america, i think she'll probably be called a slut. that's the sad fact of it. i would rather her grow up in a world where there's activism like this to challenge that notion, to challenge the notion women are going to be blamed if something bad happens to them. so, it makes me really happy and me hopeful for the future to see all of these young women taking to the streets saying, we're

tired of the victim blaming, we're tired of the rape and we're going to do something about it. >> but to go into the uncomfortable area of this conversation, would you want your daughter to go into the city at night wearing those clothes? and if the answer is no, why? >> you know, i think i'm going to have to answer that question once she's of that age. i think it's a difficult thing. >> i'll tell you my answer -- >> when she becomes a teenager, let me help you with that one. >> my answer is no because i don't want her to have unnecessary risks and to open herself up -- >> but there's a difference. >> am i -- okay. >> there's a difference between a parent wisely saying, dress appropriately, be careful and having cops say, if you dress like that --. it's a gray area. >> -- cops say, if you dress like that, you're asking for it, or newspapers suggesting the same thing, or courts. and willie knows, i've been a feminist for a very long time here. no, it is an assumption that society has made for centuries,

that if a woman is raped and she doesn't wear a burqa, it may be that she was asking for it. that's what they're trying to fight back against. >> that's right. there's a dangerous message, too, in suggesting if you don't dress slutty, if you dress conservatively, you'll be safe. we know that's not the case. women wearing all sorts of things, of all ages, shapes and sizes, you know, they're raped and it has nothing to do with it. you know, rape is not about a guy being really sexually turned on. it's about violence and power and wanting to degrade woman. >> i'm all for iron y but why not call these empowerment walks and avoid the controversy and -- >> do you think i'd be sitting here if they were called empowerment walks? >> would it be number one on the washingtonpost.com? >> no, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. >> it is if what you're looking for is to start a national conversation about rape and victim blaming. if you need to get that kind of attention, that's what you do. i think it's really smart and strategic of them. >> talk about the friction

within the feminism movement against these walks. >> you know, there have been some who have criticized it by saying it's slutwalks, dressing in a particular way -- although i should say the marchers, some are wearing sweatpants and jeans and t-shirts, not all girls in bras. by doing this you're reclaiming a word irredeemable, but really these women are doing a performative satiraca play on the word. >> thank you very much. >> it's fascinateding. >> it is. you can read this on washingtonpost.com. >> founder of feministing.com. willie, what do you have coming up next? >> another feminist icon, sarah palin in the news, talking about paul reveer's ride last weekend yesterday on sunday morning shows. not apologizing at all.

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time for news you can't use. perhaps you heard about sarah palin torture telling of the story of paul revere and his ride. >> missing listen my children, l hear, early morning ride of paul revere. >> she was in boston saturday morning.

she was asked the question, here it is verbatim? what have you seen so far today? what are you going to take away from your visit? here's her response. >> where paul revere hung out as a teenager, which was something new to learn. and you know, he warned the british they weren't going to be taking away our arms by ringing those bells and making sure as he was riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be secure and we were going to be free. >> so, she was, of course, barbecued for that answer. it wasn't the bells, it was lanterns, warning the british, she claimed -- >> it wasn't mid-morning, it was midnight. >> a lot of elements up for scrutiny. >> come on. >> former governor was on fox news sunday. >> please don't show this to us. >> yesterday she defended her answer. >> the defense is as painful as the answer. >> you realized you messed up about paul revere, don't you? >> you know what, i didn't mess

up about paul revere. here's what paul revere did. he warned the americans that the british were coming, the british were coming and they were going to try to take our arms. part of his ride is to warn the british we're already there, you're not going to succeed, you're not going to take american arms, are you not going to beat our own well-armed persons, individual private militia we have. he did warn the british. and in a shoutout, got ya type of question, i answered can ditly. i know my american history. >> there you go. >> she called it a got ya question. >> so palin was right, there were hobbits that night, aiding paul revere? >> she called it a got ya question. i'm going to repeat it. what have you seen so far today and what are you going to take away from your visit? >> everything's a got ya question with her. what newspapers do you read? >> you were up -- you spent some time with the former governor.

>> everything is a got ya question. >> not everything. just the ones where her answers aren't good. >> she's taking questions. >> she took a lot of questions and gave a lot of good answers. she gave a lot of answers that were very solid. >> like? >> like she talked about concerns about the cost of the war in afghanistan? and that we need to re-evaluate whether the commitment is affordable. >> okay. >> and then the former governor, if i may, used a titanic metaphor to talk about the american economy. >> their plans for bigger government, more federal control over our private sector, more regulations and burdensome mandateds on the people and on our businesses, it's not working. we do need to shift gears and change course. it's very noble of president obama to want to stay at the helm and maybe go down with the sinking ship. i prefer, and many americans prefer, we start plugging the hole, we start powering up the bilge pump and start getting rid of this unsustainable debt sinking our ship.

we don't have to go the way of the titanic. >> there you go. >> one more clip for you. did you see bill friday? >> larry king was on, of course. >> larry king was on, one of the panelist, who we love, will be on this show tomorrow. his big concern as they debated the issues of the day -- >> a lot going on. >> the temperature in the studio. larry, take it away. >> wait a minute. >> turning the tables on you, larry king. >> finally. tu >> by the way, the air conditioning in here, who planned this? >> why? are you cold? >> am i cold? throw a log on it. this is freezing, bill. >> could we get larry king a shawl, please. i want mr. king to be perfectly happy throughout -- >> that's all right. what is the degree in here? it's cold. i don't mean to complain. >> time for new rules. >> larry kept chiming in. >> question for you, did they

fix it? >> no. >> that doesn't work to announce it on the air? >> he'll like it here. >> this is very temperate, always 68 degrees. >> larry will be with us tomorrow morning. with us shortly, congressman steny hoyer up next on "morning joe." ♪ [ lane ] here's the trouble with most anti-wrinkle creams. the cream disappears but your wrinkles don't. ♪ introducing neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair. it has the fastest retinol formula available. in fact, it's clinically proven to smooth wrinkles in just one week. so all you have to do is sit back and watch your wrinkles go away. new rapid wrinkle repair.

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the fact is congress has been in session since january and they have done nothing. >> you can talk to mr. boehner. >> it's all their fault, not your fault? >> they set the agenda. >> you say, we don't want to talk about the past, we have to talk about the future. in the meantime, nothing is getting done. nobody's agree with anybody on anything. >> i understand that. we're not in majority, so you're saying to me, why haven't we brought something to the floor to create jobs? i think that's a better question asked to the republicans. because they have -- control the agenda. top of the hour, live look at capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe." market halperin and steve rattner, joining us, congressman steny hoyer on the set with us this morning. >> nancy pelosi saying, that's a question better asked of republicans because they control the agenda.

>> that's one way to put it. dump it on them. >> that's been good for democrats, hasn't it, over the past month or so, the special election in new york, controversy over paul ryan's medicare plan. democrats are -- house democrats in a pretty good place, aren't they? >> well, i think house democrats will be in much better shape if the country's in better shape, and the economy starts coming back. i think that will help the president and help us. i think people are pretty upset with the agenda that's been put forward so far by republicans or lack of agenda. i think nancy's right. obviously, as both of you know, i was the majority leader. i did control the agenda. i knew i could bring things to the floor, if i wanted to. in this case, we're not in that position. we've done nothing on jobs over the last five months. we've been focused on the ryan plan, the republican plan to cut the budget, cut medicare. clearly, voters of the 26th district thought that wasn't a good agenda. >> right. it's certainly an easy issue to

demagogue. i wonder if you feel for your party it's your responsibility not to demagogue it and to actually come up with some ideas about medicare? i mean, it has to change, right? >> i think that -- i gave a speech a couple of times where i've said everything needs to be on the table, the deficit that confronts us, it's a crisis, not just a problem. it needs to be addressed. it needs to be addressed now, the sooner the better and we need to address it in a bipartisan way. i think the problem paul ryan ran into is he tried to do something on a partisan basis. really f this problem is going to be okay -- >> how do we -- >> both parties will demagogue the other no matter the solution. >> how do we get there? >> '93 bill clinton said we need to slow down medicare to this level. we use the same numbers in '95. he then used that against us. last year the republicans used

medicare to beat the hell out of democrats and take control of congress. this year it looks like democrats are planning to do the same thing to take back control of congress. this is -- i mean, this is almost like i.r.a. peace talks. how do we stop the cycle of political cycle or demagoguery. >> have you to do what reagan and o'neal on social security. you are to take your hands and put them on the hot griddle together. as a matter of fact, my understanding is, they were so concerned about that in 1983, reagan, as i understand, was on the west coast, o'neal on the east coast, maybe in boston or washington, i'm not sure, and they were on the telephone to make sure they both went out and made the announcement about the social security deal at the same time. neither would accuse the other of not being in sync with the other. frankly, i talked to paul ryan.

i said the lesson we should all learn f you go out alone on this, the other party, i don't care whether it's democrats or republicans, are going to take you to task and they're going to win. the reason they're going to win is because the public is basically very, very apprehensive and opposed to cutting various fundamental supports they have, whether it's social security or medicare. >> especially medicare. >> who would have stood by his side and helped him out with that on the other side of the aisle? >> democrats would not have been for changing fundamental medicare. you can save money in medicare without fundamentally changing the guarantee. you can reduce benefits or make additional changes that will reduce costs over time without changing, which is what paul ryan d the basic guarantee. he changed medicare. "the wall street journal" said that.

>> that's what we've been saying. when you talk about math, that's an easier sell. when you talk about math and the transformation of a program, it gets dicey. >> yeah. so, right now, of course, we have a situation where we have some people with their hands on the griddle with the vice president. the sense we're all getting is you start kind of a $4 trillion goal over ten years and it seems to be working its way downward slowly. now there's even questions about whether it will emerge. i think people in the economy would say more action from government, some sense of confidence as to where government is going would really be happiful. what's your level of optimism at the moment we're going to get something out of those talks? >> steve, when the biden group started, i was pretty pessimistic. i really didn't think they were going to make much progress. i didn't think cantor or kyl were going to participate in a meaningful way. from what i hear from the talks, i'm not in the room, and they're keeping it pretty closed until, you know, until everything is agreed to, nothing's agreed to, but my sense is that they are all engaging in a serious way. that leads me to be somewhat optimistic.

the task is dawn iunting and difficult, and difficult politically. they engaging because there is a realization that the problem is serious. it must be addressed to stabilize markets and have a future for our kids. we've got to solve the problem. my father was a member of the greatest generation. i don't want to be perceived as a member of the greediest, most irresponsible generation. >> can you explain or tease out the difference between you and leader pelosi on everything on the table? you say everything must be on the table. she said she would not vote for a package that had cuts to medicare in it. are those in conflict? do you see things differently than she does? >> she said she believes everything needs to be on the table. she thinks medicare ought not to be changed. >> she said no cuts in medicare. >> right. i didn't see the specifics,

but -- >> by the way, a couple of weeks ago she said efg including medicare was on the table. >> i have spent a lot of time in rooms discussing the matter and the speaker indicated everything should be on the table. but when we put things on the table that doesn't mean we want to change the fundamental guarantee, for instance, in medicare. paul ryan suggested a substantial difference in the guaranteed nature of medicare. when paul ryan or others related to what members of congress get it's totally inaccurate. i think the speaker has repeateded everything is on the table. >> how do we get beyond everything on the table? >> we still call her the speaker. if i call her the speaker i can still be called the leader.

>> by the way, happy birthday to carla. >> that's right. >> i have been there. i have three daughters. none of them are 13. >> that's my youngest daughter. i can't imagine. i'm here and not able to get the words out. do we agree it's unsustainable? >> yes. >> why can't it change? democrats say it can't be fundamentally changed. we have to make little changes. we have heard it all before. doesn't it need to fundamentally change? >> the change is something you can rely on in the years ahead. what paul ryan, the republicans suggested is changing the fundamental guarantee to what paul ryan calls a premium support. others call it a voucher. it says no matter what health

care costs go up or whether or not you can get insurance from private sector insurance we'll give you a basic support that will be frozen and you won't be able to rely on insurance. we have medicare because in the '50s and '60s, private sector insurance companies would not give insurance to seniors. why? because it was not profitable. they couldn't make money on it. so medicare came in really to fill the void to give a guarantee. but you can restrain growth. you can restrain benefits. in fact, in the affordable care act we did just that. we cut $500 billion. republicans demagogued that as if it was a cut in benefits. it was not. the cbo says it saves a trillion dollars. >> why are we still here, steve? >> because medicare isn't fully funded. the ryan plan would cut a

billion four over ten years through this right sing social engineering, but what's the plan? as mika said, we have heard about bending the cost curve, but how do we save a billion four without compromising this benefit? >> first of all, one of the basic things you have to do is cut health care costs. they are unsustainable for medicare and medicaid and governments. they are unsustainable for the private sector as well. which is why they are cutting back on health care benefits offered to employees. what you've got to do is restrain, a, generally the growth in cost. we tried to do it in the affordable care act. in fact, it's projected to save $1 trillion in the second ten years, about $240 billion between now and 2020. hopefully, that will have been successful. we'll see. it's an estimate. nobody can guarantee it. you ought to cut health care costs. then you have to restrain, in my

opinion, growth in programs like medicare and social security. >> medicare, 6%, 7% now? >> it's been two, three times inflation. medical inflation has been two or three times normal inflation for a number of years. >> how do you get it to 3 or 4% growth? >> how do you do it? >> that's a trillion dollar question. >> there are no easy answers, obviously. >> clearly, there are no easy answers or somebody would have taken them. one thing we tried to do in the affordable care act is make preventative services more available. encourage people to take preventative services. encourage them to compensate on procedures not so much but outcomes. that sounds good. we'll see if it works. >> here's the bottom line. we spend an inordinate amount of

money. >> 20% of gdp. >> and so much of that on the last year of life. sometimes performing procedures that won't extend or improve the quality of life. if you even talk about that -- >> forget it. >> you are talking death panels. if republicans talk about it, the same on the left. it is extraordinarily difficult for us to have a rational conversation. >> joe, let me suggest the only way you make it easier is to do it together. >> get everybody together. >> no matter how excellent a proposal i might make, if i make it and put it on the table, the other side has a real impetus to characterize that in a negative way. >> tip o'neal and ronald reagan had a tough relationship at

times, a good relationship at times. they talked on the phone. one time richard reeves said reagan said tip o'neal was demagoguing social security and he apologized to him. tip said, don't worry, we're friends. there is not that good will. >> very frankly, joe, you were there as we were transitioning on the change. >> i know. >> unfortunately. >> i left and it all went to hell. >> no, no. the fact that you left, you and i had a good relationship. we worked together on things. as you know, roy is one of my best friends. the minority whip. >> you work with the other side. >> i can work with john boehner. >> how would you describe the relationship between john boehner and the president today? >> i think john boehner is somebody you can work with. he has a respect for the president. he can work with the president.

i think there is an opportunity to work together. i don't think john boehner has shut the door to cooperation. certainly president obama has not shut the door to cooperation and that's what we need. we need it on the debt limit extension. this is a crazy debate. there is not a person of responsibility in washington that doesn't know it has to be extended. to the extent we can extend it with other mechanisms to bring confidence we'll bring down the debt and deficit, that will be better. if we can't -- i hope we can. i'm working with john boehner and eric cantor and kevin mccarthy and david camp toward that end. to not extend it would be catastrophic. >> steny hoyer, thank you. >> looking forward to seeing you in washington. >> coming up, billionaire investor warren buffett and

mitch landrieu are teaming up in the south. they will be with us. and does the justice department have a case against john edwards? >> not a strong one. i don't get it. >> nbc's lisa myers has the latest on those charges. first to bill cairn for a check on the forecast. >> i'm here to serve mika and joe first. this tells the story for the midatlantic and new england, too. you see temperatures in new york starting near 80 today. by the middle of the week we're going to peak. temperatures will be very hot, around 97 by thursday. everyone enjoy today from boston to d.c., a gorgeous day. but the middle of the country, that's where the summer heat wave continues. the middle of the nation, the heat builds to the east. today, 96 in kansas city. 98 in dallas. same areas that were hot this weekend will be hot again today.

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♪ the recession isn't over until one of these people gets a job. when whole families of jobless hillbillys are drifting around the country asking for handouts and living in a bus, brother, that's a depression. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 20 past the hour. a live look at the white house. let's get the latest on the case against john edwards from nbc news senior investigative correspondent lisa myers with

the criticism swirling around the indictment of edwards. >> reporter: john edwards faced media reminiscent of the high point of his political career but this time he's charged with six felonies, booked and fingerprinted. >> i did not break the law. >> reporter: he spent the weekend at his estate focused on getting daughter emma claire ready for camp. a friend of elizabeth told nbc that despite john's betrayal, nobody wanted him to face criminal charges. they worry about the couple's young children, jack and emma claire. local reaction is less forgiving. >> i have no trust in someone that continually lies. >> john edwards has become a rather pathetic figure. >> reporter: edwards is charged with soliciting and covering up almost a million dollars used to keep hunter and later their child hidden away in lavish homes and on private jets while he ran for president. >> thank you.

>> reporter: though the payments didn't go to edwards' campaign the government alleges they amounted to unlawful campaign contributions because they were meant to keep his candidacy viable. edwards' lawyers say the money was a gift from friends to hide the affair from his wife. the indictment triggered unus l usu usual criticism of the justice department. >> i think he's a reprehensible person but not every scum is a criminal. the government seems to be criminalizing bad behavior. >> reporter: and from campaign watchdogs. >> i think john edwards is a lousy human being but this is a flimsy criminal case. >> reporter: a washington post editorial said it's troubling that the justice department would choose to devote scarce resources to pursuing this questionable case. others argue that prosecutors have more evidence than they reveal and these kind of campaign finance abuses need to

be prosecuted. >> what the government says is there has to be a line. john edwards crossed the line. we believe it's criminal behavior. >> reporter: so far there's been no comment on the indictment from the woman at the center of the scandal, rielle hunter. hunter's publicist says edwards and hunter raised 3-year-old francis quinn together and see each other often. a friend of edwards said the senator and his parents have a close relationship with quinn and see her quite often. >> nbc's lisa myers, thank you for that. >> we appreciate it. this news came out and i didn't hear a lot of criticism of it early on. i just didn't get it from the very beginning. i mean, seriously. i'm with you, mark. you think a judge will dismiss it? i think a judge will look at the facts of the case and throw it out. >> i think there is a chance of it. in part because the justice department there are so many violations in presidential and

other campaigns that have an impact on the outcome of the race, this did not. to use these resources to go after him seems strange. >> steve ratner, and also if these were gifts and not political contributions then the federal government loses and they pay gift tax, right? >> comes to our economy and wall street that isn't getting attention. >> you're right. one of the criticisms i have heard repeatedly is here you had

the financial meltdown, all these people on wall street implicated in it and made a ton of money and may have misrepresented the quality of their companies. yet the justice department has not spent two and a half years individually investigating all of them. when john edwards was arraigned on friday, there were seven government lawyers present. >> come on. >> seven. >> it's ridiculous. >> the government wanted edwards to agree to a plea deal in which he would serve jail time. he said, absolutely not. i'm not going to jail over this. >> the justice department has done the impossible -- made john edwards sympathetic. >> not quite. >> not quite. >> people want revenge of john edwards. they are angry with john edwards, fine. but don't use our federal resources to do it. >> it's terrible what he did, but the donors knew what the money was being used for.

>> the donors gave it to him directly. it didn't affect the campaign. they put gift taxes -- >> who are these people? >> all edwards needed to say was, i was trying to stop my wife from knowing what's going on. he's proven his case. yes, it's terrible. why does the government have seven lawyers there? seriously, there are so many cases of this that actually have an impact on politics moving forward. why are they going back and kicking a guy who is already politically dead? >> hard to know. it's not a case of a republican justice department going after a democrat. if it goes to trial the problem for the prosecution is the three main people that are witnesses -- one is fred baron who's deceased. one is a 100-year-old woman unlikely to appear in court and the key witness is andrew young, an admitted liar.

>> thank you, lisa. >> fascinating. >> nbc today's kathie lee gifford will be joining the table. but first carol king is here. don't go away. we'll be right back.

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♪ wild horses ♪ couldn't drag me away >> welcome back to "morning joe." are you all right? >> it's the "wild horses" song. >> yeah. joining us now, legendary singer/songwriter carol king back on the show this morning. >> and "morning joe" regular. >> yes, you are. great to have you. we want to talk about something that's near and dear to you which is the wilderness protection plans which the obama administration, backing down a little bit. where do you stand on that? you're a little bit disappointed today. >> i'm very disappointed. the obama administration tried to roll back the bush era policies of develop everything and congress pretty much put that into the budget bill that they should reinstate the

bush-era policies. so i'm not happy with that but it's not the obama administration per se. it's what congress did. >> so is the administration going to fight it? >> i don't know. i think the administration probably thinks it has bigger fish to fry with the economy which sort of brings me to why i wanted to be here today. i wanted to remind people that, yes, with all the focus on jobs and the economy that's important and necessary and absolutely should be priority one. but americans can walk and chew gum at the same time. we shouldn't forget about the environment. it's being stolen from us while we are not paying attention. >> we have been showing while you have been talking, remarkable pictures of the land you're trying to protect. it's breathtaking and obviously something near and dear to your heart. >> absolutely. >> and you are in idaho actually now. >> i live there. i have lived there for over 30 years. i lived in idaho for 34 years,

but where i live now. >> that's your home? >> that's my home. it's a cabin in the woods. it's a big cabin, but that's my backyard. the creek that i look down on is just absolutely exquisite. >> wow. >> absolutely beautiful. >> it's not the upper west side, but it's beautiful. >> no, it's not. my neighbors are people that -- just simple, great working people. they typically vote republican. >> what do they think of having a democrat in the woods? >> there are a few of us. our numbers decreased for a while, but after 30 years they have come to embrace me as, well, we don't agree, but she's our gal. >> you have told stories where you have gone to -- is it city council meetings? >> the county commissioners. >> and carol king is there, going up against the ranchers. how does that go? >> well, the truth is, we're

neighbors. i understand a lot of the problems. and i have done some campaigning around the country in rural communities. you know, i feel qualified to speak to people in rural communities because they're like my neighbors. really good people. >> i want to go out there. >> you're coming. >> i'm coming. >> make note. >> my daughter carly would like to as well. tell us about the american wild horse preservation campaign. >> let me go back to the economy. people may not know we spend -- american taxpayers spend $60 million a year to round up horses that are doing no one any harm. they are out there in the wild. they forage. it doesn't cost anything to feed them. they say they have to control the population. there are cheaper ways to do that through immunosterilization. they take helicopters, chase them into corrals. then they truck them to other

places in the east. then they keep them there and then they spend money advertising, adopt a horse. there's over 33,000 of them waiting to be adopted. why don't they just leave them where they are? if they need to control the population, dart them. >> what's the rationale? why does the government say they are doing it? >> the real rationale is that the cattlemen's association doesn't want them on the land. i live out there. they co-exist. there is an interview online with a cattleman named kenny bradshaw. he's not alive anymore. he says, i don't know why they are doing this. they're not doing any harm. they're not hurting anybody. that's the reality of it. for some reason, the association of cattlemen want them off the land and they come up with bogus reasons why they are doing harm. they're not. i live there. >> why do they want them off the land? what's the real reason?

>> i don't actually know. they think they are in competition with the cattle, but the cattle mostly stay in the river areas where the creeks are. they do damage to the creeks where the horses range freely all over. they come to the creek to drink but range freely over this beautiful land. one of the pictures has a vast view of the land that the horses live on. there is room for both. >> right. didn't george w. bush say the cow and horse can co-exist together? >> he did. we should adopt one of those 33,000 horses. >> no. she doesn't want us to adopt. >> adopt the ones that are already there. >> bring them to yonkers. >> we have pictures of the horses being shown. they are beautiful. >> let's adopt that one and call it gumdrop. >> i don't know where that came from. >> that's my favorite horse

name. >> obviously i think you would have a lot of americans agreeing with you here. but this is a case of a special interest group lobbying congress and getting what they want when nobody's looking, right? >> that's exactly what we have to be alert for. while the eye is on the economy, as it should be, check back over here on the environment. check back on the waste of money rounding up wild horses that are better left where they are. >> how are you doing a year after an extraordinary concert tour? you just packed -- what was it like to go back into madison square garden and just pack it out? >> incredible. >> three shows. it was amazing. >> as a new yorker i appreciate what that means. we were talking on the women's show. i'm good at what i do, but that turnout was amazing. james and i together seemed to be greater than the sum of our two parts. we'll do it again sometime.

i don't know if on a whole tour, but i love him. >> it was incredible. you guys are amazing together. certainly you know you're good at what you do, but it doesn't hurt when you sell out madison square garden. >> that's just the gratitude part. >> did it surprise you how much -- i mean, obviously when we heard you were going on tour as music fans we were immediately excited. i don't know that i thought this was going to take on zeppelin-like proportions. were you surprised by how big it was? >> yes. i mean, i knew it was going to with b be bigger than the two of us, but i was awe struck. there was an authenticity factor i think they responded to. you know, i wasn't here to promote anything except the environment. but i'm working on a christmas album my daughter is producing. a holiday album. there will be a hanukkah prayer on that. >> okay. >> and, you know, that was

another thing where i'm just like, i just am grateful i get to do it. then i'm finally meeting with publishers about my book after, uh like, ten years and that's going to be fun. >> that's great. just don't be too grateful. remember the message. >> aye-aye, ma'am. >> i have been waiting for the book. it will be great. the stories, wow. >> well, carol, it's great to have you on the show. come back soon, long before the christmas album. we want to talk about that as well. go to joe.msnbc.com for information on how to get involved in the rockies preservation project. thank you. we have a big show tomorrow. larry king will be here and we'll talk to sugar ray leonard. what did i do? >> that's an interesting pairing. >> we may put boxing gloves on them. >> keep it here on "morning joe"

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looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. 43 past the hour. welcome back. the u.s. military confirms that five u.s. service members were killed monday in central iraq. iraqi security officials say a rocket attack hit a base in eastern baghdad. earlier the u.s. said in a brief statement that the troops were killed but gave no additional details about the incident. >> eight years later. eight years later, americans are still lying in iraq. ten years later, americans are still dying in afghanistan. seriously?

and now we know what's happening in afghanistan. we have tripled down the number of troops and we are staying there. >> yeah. and listen to this because there's more. a third u.s. missile strike hit pakistan's northwest border region near afghanistan today. officials say four people were killed. 16 died in drone attacks over the weekend. pakistani authorities are increasingly sure one of the reported dead from a blast on friday is mohamed ilia iliad kashmiri, who many felt would follow osama bin laden in al qaeda. meanwhile a suicide bombing killed 18 at a bakery near person war. more than 150 people have been killed in attacks in pakistan since the osama bin laden raid last month. >> when you keep lobbing drones in afghanistan and pakistan and you keep killing children and women and men who are civilians,

you're just creating more terrorists. mark halprin, we have said it before. the american people have finally caught up -- and we have seen it. they have finally caught up to the fact that afghanistan is a failed policy, after a decade. we should have declared war when the cia said there are only 50 al qaeda members in afghanistan. i mean, we should have declared victory. now congress is catching up. >> there are three things keeping it on track. secretary gates, the president and general petraeus. i think the president is ambivalent, but those two guys, i think, are carrying more than 50% of the support for the war on their shoulders. >> does anyone think it's easy to get out, pull out? >> no. >> stop the spending and loss of lives? >> not an easy situation. >> let me tell you something. we have been there a decade and here's the tragedy of

afghanistan. it will be no easier a decade from now. >> i agree. >> we are in a country that will swallow us alive. we can stay there 50 more years at these troop levels and we'll leave under the same circumstances. they have been there for thousands of years. there are some people that are shooting at us that are so isolated they believe they are shooting at russian troops. that's how isolated they are in afghanistan. >> secretary gates says victory is just around the corner. we have to stay a little longer and the taliban will negotiate and it will be fixed. >> i have great respect for secretary gates. >> i do, too. >> but that's not going to happen. >> up next, the fifa soccer scandal is gaining speed. >> that's not going to get fixed either. >> you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. too much on your plate?

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. welcome back, kids. time to bring in espn software analyst roger bennett. in washington, and author of "how soccer explains the world" frank fore. i want to start with you. first of all, let's talk about the dismembering of the united states. by frank's favorite team spain, roger. what happened to the united states? >> we can talk about this

quickly. it was a bit like if i was to arm wrestle a 5 years old. even i would have chances. it's not a lot to get up about, but spain plays counterintuitive soccer. what they do with the ball no one else can do. it was a wonderful day for soccer in the u.s., but -- >> not great for us, frank. was it? >> we want to take the next step up. we beat spain a couple years back, one of the few to beat spain in the past few years, but our performance yesterday was completely pathetic, our team is not poised to take the next step. >> u.s. soccer not in a good place right now. roger bennett, i am so disheartened. you know, americans tuned in, because we blab about it forever, everybody that loved soccer was getting excited about the world cup. they tuned in and were horrified by the shoddy officiating, and

just the -- one stupid fifa move after another. now corruption has exploded. the united states seems to be complicit in it. our soccer association is complicit. why? >> the past week there was an election at fifa. on the outside it's like the kremlin. on the inside it's like a chicago political machine. there's 41,000 -- $41 hundred milli million, so a massive amount of power, and the fight over the reserves makes it extremely political. >> but it is script. >> alleged to be corrupt, the top officials have been under investigation, it's kissinger and louie freeh to investigate, but u.s. soccer has kept their mouth shut, and the head said yesterday on television it wasn't the right moment to make a moral standing and looked about as comfortable as anthony

wiener when he was on larry king. >> i don't understand why now wouldn't be the time, frank. corruption has completely swamped this organization. the future of soccer in america is very bright, and yet we've got leaders that seem to be complicit in the corruption. >> right, the corruption is not alleged and is not new. there is a ten-year history of cash-filled brown envelopes being paced as cryothe table and money being funneled into secret accounts. we have people on tape asking for bribes. we have people within the fifa organization emerging to testify to the extent of corruption, and the english have very bravely decided to take on the corruption within the organization. right now they're standing alone. >> why won't america do that, frank? why won't america do that? because we have a massive audience that's only going to grow. >> because we still think that

we can get a world cup in is 2022. qatar was awarded the world cup for 2022. the fact that qatar was sflf awarded the world cup, a place where it would be 125 degrees all summer. >> that doesn't make sense. >> the only reason is because they were bribing people. so now there's this hope that corruption will be exposed, that qatar will be deprived of the world cup and it will be shifted to the united states. >> yes america says nothing, our association is complicit. >> right. we haven't learned a lesson, the only way to get a world cup is to essentially bribe the people that were voting. i think we're naive, i think. >> are we naive or complicit. >> i can only thing that the u.s. soccer information knew about information that we don't know, and they think it will be coming here if they're silent.

they've had information in the past that's tornado out to be wrong and they were tricked. there's a throwback to the age where very few people westbound interested, like shuffleboard in america. but there's more people that want to get involved. >> more watch world cup final than the world series in america. don't we need new leaders? >> i think we'll see individuals turning to return for the u.s. soccer federation. to change that you have to go after the advertisers, you have to go after data, coke, ronald mcdonald, after the money. it's the only way to break a political machine. >> do you agree? >> i think there's a connection, which was the way that we got shellacked against spain and our failure to go up a level. we've had kids playing this game for generations. we always seem poised to urn it the corner and emerge to the

next level, and we haven't made the turn. i think that roger is right, that we need to be -- we need to have bolder leadership within the u.s. federation that perfects the level of play, but also plays a leadership role in taking on the abject corruption that's ruining the great game. >> and as roger points out, more kids in america play soccer than in any country in the planet. >> if fifa was a country, we would be debating whether it's democratic, and we should get nato to invade it. >> but gadhafi has actually been a great patron in the corrupt regime. >> all right -- >> we've got kids who want to be soccer fans. >> young, impressionable kids. >> i thought he was a shuffleboard fan. >> i was thinking about the

lebron dunk. that's an athlete. >> roger and frank, thank you. >> thanks, guys. who's ahead? >> warren buffett still ahead on "morning joe." stay with us. >> ( rooster crows ) >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network.

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don't make too much of any one month as job reports. they're highly variable. you want to look at a bit of a trend to get a more accurate

barometer. we have moved a long way from when the economy is in a rescue mode, the private sector is in free fall and government is the only thing standing between us and falling into another great depression. our effort now, as a government, should be to help the private sector to help them stand up and lead the recovery. we've got to rely on government policies that are trying to leverage the private sector and gift incentives to the private sector to be doing the growth. good morning, it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as we take a live look at new york city. back with us on set is mark halpern and steve rat any. >> june 6th a historic day, what do you think? it's carly's birthday.

>> i have two teenagers. she's 13. >> my lord, that's a horrible age. happy birthday, carly. >> she's perfect. >> and of course one of the great deal thrills, d d-day. >> one of the thrills of my life. >> it was amazing to see the americans climbing up those cliffs. >> you walk on the beaches now and walk on the cliffs. >> really? >> and it's light, what, tunnel 9:30, 10:00 at night? i don't think i've seen a more beautiful place on earth, just knowing what those young kids did that morning. >> one of the few historical places, where you can feel the history. >> you can still see bomb craters, the cemeteries. you think about the greatest generation. they truly were an extraordinary of men who climbed those. >> have you been there? >> yes. the sing the-moss chill-inducing

place. >> 67 years. >> 67 years ago. wow. wow. so a lot to talk about. >> um-hmm. >> i think washington, specifically the white house, still jolted by friday's -- >> they were back, and i'm not sure how you can say -- make we can watch ratner, is it fair to say you can't be shaken but one monthly jobs report? it was pretty bad. >> a >> austen is right, but they come on the heels of other numbers that clearly indicates a soft spot, whether it's leading indicators, manufacturing orders, car sales, the gdp numbers will not be that strong. i don't believe it's a double-dip recession. think it's a period of sflef

slower growth. >> so steve, what happened. six to nine months ago we started to see positive numbers, everyone was starting to get excited about it looked lie we were turning the corner. is it gas prices? is it stimulus money coming to an end? what's caused this step back? >> the short answer is you can't be sure. economies do have uneven recoveries. it's never a straight line up. we had the same situation in the spread of '10 i think gas prices, what's going on in washington, and i think confidence is what affects it. i don't think anybody can have a sense of confidence with what's going on in washington today, whether they should buy a car or a new home. >> and mark halperin, the

political impact, you don't want to overplay it. next month the jobs numb% could be great and we could be down to 8.8%, but at least for this weekends, and i suspect for the next two to three weeks until we get a better idea of what next month's jobs numbers look like, the white house has completely got it back on their heels, sort of have them double down, understanding -- there's been a feeling privately in the white house that this was going to be a walk. look who their opponents were. they don't feel that way anymore, and republicans are feeling more excited this weekend about their prospects. >> if there's a strong republican nominee, he or she can win. that's a reality that the white house knows. before the bad economic news, the white house could say we know people are hurting, but things are getting better. unless things change dramatic,

they're caught in the narrative of things are bad. theant doesn't want to be pessimistic or backward look. >> certainly neutralizes the republicans looking like villains on medicare. >> the president as problem is he's just in a terrible, terrible situation. he's at a cross roads where you've got debt and a weak economy. he inherited a massive debt. i would suggest he didn't make it a whole lot better, but he's got a terrible debt. what you would normally do, cut taxes or raise spending, they tried. they tried when he first got in office. they tried again after the 2010 elections. the president just doesn't have a lot of good options right now at his disposal. >> the president acknowledged the economy took a bit hit on friday, but maintains the country is still making progress and recovery takes time. as you heard earlier, his top

economic adviser austan goolsbee says the focus is now on helping private sector job growth. he tried to downplay the unemployment numbers, but nancy pelosi blames the current problems on the bush administration saying president bush has improved the situation since he took office. >> if he hadn't taking the actions he did, that the situation would be worse. he pulled us from the brink of a financial, economic crisis and now we have to dig out of a deep debt. we have to also make it clear that we're not getting into this situation again. >> so, steve, how do we -- how does the is that balance his stagnant economy and a massive debt where if things keep getting worse we could be for 90% of gdp. what does he do? >> in the short term, you all austen i think cleverly trying to triangulate his way around

it. he talked a bit about how this is one number and you can't make too much of it, and then he said look what we have done. we've added 2 million jobs, the economy is still recoveries, we don't have the room on the monetary site. the only real policy option is to have a steady as you go and hope the economy picks up speed. there's a reasonable chance of that. >> if i was advising the president or you were the president yourself, would that be your only option? >> i think you have to distinguish between the president and being god. if you're the president, i don't think you have a lot of options. he could propose a jobs bills or some things that make sense, but it wouldn't pass. >> if i were god, i would

rearrange a lot of what goes on. i would arrange the nature of our federal spending, would have a lot to investment and infrastructure, things that promote jobs in the future. i would deal with the deficit, but not deal with it tomorrow. it's more of a next year's problem, but there have to be major changes. >> a lot of people would say didn't we have a huge stimulus package? why pour more money into actually -- >> but actually it did work. i mean, this is a point that people miss. the stimulus did work. if we had not had that stimulus program, unemployment would be several percent -- this has been studied by serious economists, not sort of political hacks. the gdp would be hundreds of billions lower, it actually did work. you have to look at it what would have happened otherwise. >> so you're saying if the white

house said if we passed the stimulus, unemployment wouldn't get over 8%. >> that was a mistake. >> if the stimulus hadn't been passed what would we be at 12%? >> yes. >> people without jobs will ask, where did all that money go? we talked about shovel-ready projects? what happened? >> first it wren to a hodgepodge of things, that was a political compromise, not what any of us would individually done, but it went from keeping the unemployment rate from being well into the double digits to a couple percentage points lower. they never should have put a number out there and said we'll beat this number. but if you compare it using every economic model known to man, it clearly was the right thing to do at the time. >> so it should have been bigger? >> in retrospect, it should have been bigger. the obama administration wanted it bigger, but congress wouldn't

pass it. >> the president must deal with the deficit. he'll strike a big deal, or he'll fail, and washington will be seen as getting nothing done and i think it would be horrible for the economy. >> look at the front page of "usa today" but the image itself this is the question really that could define the election, maybe not medicare after all. if a good republican emerges, a good republican candidate emerges. >> that's a big if. mark, you said you went to an event this weekend, and they just all fell flat. >> none of the republicans has captured the public imagination. a big focus on sarah palin makes it harder, but tim pawlenty tomorrow will make a big speech. mitt romney will come forward with a plan relative soon, if

the republicans are going to win, someone has to have a set the economic policies that people believe in, that give them hope. right now none of them are doing it. >> sarah palin was in the news over the weekend, responding to cry sim that she took the spotlight away from mitt romney last week. he held events the same day romney made his announcement. now palin has apologized to romney on fox news. take a look. >> i think there is a curiosity factor there still that's in play, i don't know, but i apologize if i stepped on any of that pr that mitt romney needed or wanted that day. i do sincerely apologize. we didn't mean to step on anybody's toes. >> there are a lot of people that think you love stepping on his toes. >> not his. i'll step on the toes of those who are making poor decisions for our nation. >> wouds.

why didn't she just say i apologize to the little man -- >> i'm sorry. i just can't help t i'm just -- >> i just go where the bus takes me. >> i just -- yeah. >> we're going to elect a president that doesn't know what paul revere was doing when he got on the horse. it's just unimaginable. >> mark, the republican establishment by this point really a little put off by sarah palin. just basically saying either jump in or stop taking all the oxygen. what is the sideshow for? >> you know, i still this, that she's going to run. the window is still there. if she handles herself well. is it for the philosophy people who might vote for her, i think

she's making herself available. none of is the three are breaking out, running away from the pack pretty soon. that leaves her options wide open. >> wow. >> you don't think she's going to run anymore? >> no, no, i think kool-aid has remarkable effects if they drink too much. wouldn't someone who doesn't stand out maybe be attractive, someone like a mitt romney or someone at this point, given the entire conversation we've had. >> i don't think you can get elected without creating excitement. i just don't think you can. >> okay. up next warren buffett and the mayor of new orleans. but first to bill karins for the forecast. >> the sun, it's way too hot. i mean, the temperature in the middle of the country is ridiculous. 105 in moussen yesterday. that summer heat, look at that ridge in the middle just dominating the weather pattern. it was cool this weekend on the

west coast and in new england, but that's not going to change, but as we change, the hot air will push to the east, areas like dc, new york and philly, get ready. look at today's highs, no relief, and a horrible drought especially in west texas, where the 100 heat between denver and kansas city. i mentioned the heat will arrive. look at washington, d.c. in the days ahead. wednesday and thursday, could be 95 and 100. so they're used to it in the deep society. in the mid-atlantic and northeast, it will be a little shock to the system. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] splenda® no calorie sweetener is sweet...

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small businesses account for half the unemployment, and our unemployment rate is 6.6% versus 9% for the country since like i think it was '07 i think we've lost only 1% of our private jobs in the country. the difference is we focus on small business and we work very hard to help small businesses get going and stay going. >> that was new york city mayor michael bloomberg on the goldman

sachs initiative. the program designed to help small business owners learned to grow and create jobs is holding their first new orleans graduation today. joining us mayor mitch landrieu, warren buffett, cochairman of the advisory council and kendyl washington, owner of safe spot pest control, who will be graduating from the 10,000 small business program today. mayor, i'll start with you. i take it 10,000 small businesses is making a difference, and contending is a perfect example of how. >> no question about it. first of all, i want to thank goldman sachs, and mr. buffett as well. contending will graduate today with 30 other small business owners. each of them have taken advantage of the capital that's available. in an economy that's struggling, really building businesses, has been a great asset.

i think today will be exciting, and we're very happy for him. >> it's amazing how his family was able to pull together, but warren, with all things you could be spending your time on, why did you focus on this initiative? and the choice of new orleans was in part because of you. why new orleans? >> to take your first question, it's going to change lives in a major way, and it will change america. we have run to dozens of talented people, and they'll be doing things they barely dream of now in the years ahead. it's going to be an important program for the country.

up, where better to go than new orleans? we had three or four locations already, but this city took the brunt of some terrible disasters over the last few years, and has shown that they have the spunk to rebuild and come back stronger than ever, and we knew there would be a lot of good people down here to work with, and here we are. >> one of those people with that spunk, kendyl washington, the man sitting to your left. it's willie geist here in new york. tell us about your story. how is your in a business doing today? >> like most other businesses i was severely impacted, but my city desperately needed, and pest control is vital to rebuilding here. so it's a great opportunity for me to come back and make a difference in a city i truly

love. r. >> but it wasn't easy. you were separated from your family for 50 weeks, and had to rebuild the company. somehow now ear bigger and better. >> definitely. we've emerged stronger. we set up shop in a hotel room for nine months, ran our business from there. it's been a blast for us. through participation in this program, the likes of the mayor and mr. warren buffett, this is a great opportunity for young entrepreneurs, and we're ecstatic. >> mayor, can you say what is positive and what do you need more of? >> we need more of everything, but secondly we're doing well. we have a huge am of investment instruments. unemployment rate is lower than the national average, we're building a new medical center,

we still struggle with infrastructure, we struggle to continue to rebuild our school system, though we have made great headway in that respect, but one of the things so important about this initiative, it gives individuals the ability and the capacity to grow jobs themselves. i agree with warren that this particular program, where you recruit folks, bring them in and train them and have capital to allow them to grow jobs, one business at a time, will have an incredible cumulative effect. you can see the resilience of folks like contending, who is really an american citizen, will show us the way back to strength and prosperity. >> these are obviously not the best of times for small businesses anywhere, let alone new orleans, some negative numbers out on friday. what is the key for small business owners whether in new orleans, new york or across the

country to get through times like these? >> the key, of course, is to have the right person to start with, but beyond that, they do need help often and certain special skills, things like negotiations, that you don't even think of. they need help sometimes with the participation of mentors or people that act like directors of a venture capital operation, and we supply those, and then they need capital. we've got capital here to help these people, but these people are winners, and under any circumstances, and all we want them to do is break a few records in the process. >> when you look at the numbers, and small business owners contribute so much to the economy, you always hear politicians running around saying that small business is what drives the economy, will drive the recovery. by the numbers, is that accurate, mr. buffett? >> what's accurate is all

business will be needed to get the economy rolling the way it should be and keep it rolling. but small businesses are a very important part of that, so are medi medium-size and business businesses. you may people today at small business, and smpd they'd be running big businesses, and will try to sell them for a very fancy price, but i'm looking forward to that. >> and mr. mayor, i'm sure you're luking forward to when they it pay taxes to the government when the economy grows. talk about the state of new orleans right now, we've got following it now five, six years since katrina. economically you say unemployment is below the national level. what about attracting new business toss that community? >> well, there's no question about t. we continue to reach out very aggressively to encourage business toss move here. that's very important and we're going to continue to do that.

politicians through to trump -- what's unique about this particular proposal is we're actually growing capacity from people who are already here. the idea is really a robust one. if all of the businesses in new orleans could at 4, 5, 6, 7 jobs, the numbers would grow exponentially. what's more important is they'll employ people. this city has become it is nation's most immediate laboratory for it innovation and change. we're rebuilding every public school in the city of new orleans. i spoke a bit about the major infrastructure investments, and new orleans has become a symbol of this nation's very strong resilience to come back from catastrophic losses. i'm very proud. kendyl is one of the best examples we have, and very thankful he and his family have participated in this event. obviously there's small business owners wondering how they're

going to make payroll two weeks from now and watching "morning joe" like all business -- it's easy for kendyl. he's got goldman sachs, warren buffett and the mayor behind him. so make it more universal. if you're a small business owner watching this show, wondering how to get by over the next section months, what do you tell them? what have you learned from this program? >> definitely, first off, the key to being a great entrepreneur is hard work. i've refined my sales and marketing techniques. we've hired a new employ, and secured numerous pest control contracts, and have extended our service area to 150 miles out from our home office, so this program allowed us to grow and achieve new heights. >> how did you learn from the program that allowed you to do that? >> definitely.

we've used negotiation skills, and we've advanced our use of social media, as well as refining our marketing efforts to our existing customers to let them know of other services. >> are you sure that warren buffett didn't slip like a billion under the table? >> he actually asked for $2 billion. >> good negotiating. >> definitely. definitely. mr. buffett is a great guy. i actually got a chance to hold on to his wallet this morning and i almost threw my back out. >> very good. well, good luck, kendyl. obviously these are not the best of times, but we're excited about your story, mayor, thank you, and we didn't even talk about ode indication reform. warren buffett, thank you. i don't know seriously how you could spend your time in a more meaningful way. small business owners, they are extraordinarily important, aren't they?

>> i agree with you 100%, and on top of that it's a lot of fun. >> kendyl, congratulations, gentlemen, thank you very, very much. coming up, kathie lee gifford will be here on set, standing by in the greenroom. >> oh, this is business. this is by. keep it right here on "morning joe." she has this thing about bugs. no, no, no... i do not have a thing about bugs. i have a thing about bugs in our house. we used to call an exterminator. ugh... now i go ortho. home defense max. i use it once inside to kill the bugs. stops them dead. guaranteed. and outside to keep new ones from moving in. that's up to 12 months protection against bugs. and 12 months of keeping our house to ourselves. until your mother comes. right. ortho home defense max. defend what's yours.

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we've got the stage set up, ready to announce we'll be in this race, and we're in it to win, and we're excited about what the future holds. people are looking for someone who has stood by their principles in good times and bad. in an election year, i went to the floor with jim demint and went arguing for reform of soci social security. not even paul ryan had the temerity to step forward and say we needed to do something about social security. people can say he may have lost, he didn't flinch, and he continued to fight through the end. welcome back. rim santorum announces.

mark? >> there's a pace there. he's been a bit outshown by michele bachmann, but there's a space. there's room for him to be a factor. simon hobbs is at the new york stock exchange. simon, the numbers. basically -- >> that was ugly. >> you came and played a dirge on your backpipes on friday, we went home depressed. give us some happy news. >> yeah. >> i do have some happy news today. we can focus on one of the great american stock stories of all time, apple, im450% over the last five years. at 1:001:00 he takes the stage at san francisco to talk about the development. it's about taking i opportunities into the itunes into the cloud. it tracks what you already own

and gives you access to the track, it's like a jukebox in the cloud, that you can basically play from anywhere. a huge move forward. >> simon, with a name like simon hobbs, you had to be in at least four british bands growing up. a wonderful names. >> hobbs. >> a punk rock type of thing. are you telling me the maddening part of itunes where i have the song on this computer, but can't get it on this ipod or mp 3 player, that's taken care of with icloud, if i download it, i've got it, i buy it. >> more importantly, you don't have it physically here, but you have it in the cloud. they're not going to make a lot of money out of this, but it will very, very hard for anybody else to catch up on the developments they're making. basically they sell more hardware. there will be a charge down the line, probably $25, but not

initially. >> actually that is very big. your girls download these songs and there's a study that something like -- willie, do you know there? something like 75% of songs downlorded on itunes by people in their teens are erased, because they want to make more space on their hard drive, and people are trying to figure out how to exploit this. this takes care of it. >> it sounds a little like the apple tv technology, maybe the first generation, but then it see. ncs up to your computer. it's floating in the ether and finds your device. >> i can't keep up. >> simon, are we expecting the markets to rebound this week? >> well, there is a bullish case, as i made it to you on friday, we've got to wait and see. we just don't know. >> that's an honest way of saying no. >> what a downer.

>> ben bernanke speaking tomorrow. what we need to know tomorrow -- see, the problem is the danger is the apology mashs give up. there's so much crisis fatigue, they don't want to spend more money through the stimulus. they give up and the more real sinks and then you say who is going to save us? it's a difficult situation. >> who is? >> simon hobbs. coming up next. >> gentle ben tomorrow, but kathie lee gifford. >> next on "morning joe." >> the markets holding their breath. >> stay with us. ttd# 1-800-345-0

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roll back to the first pitch. there's a story behind this picture. the first picture up where we're looking across the table. right there. so i had been -- willie and i just finished shooting heroin for -- wait, that's another story. this is a different story. >> my daughter took that picture. >> she turned 13 day. >> she's like a professional. she's good at everything she does. it frightens me. >> happy birthday. carly. >> happy hour. >> cath lee gifford is here to talk about her new children's book. the legend of messy mcmcheaney.

>>. ♪ messiest kid in town >> you can see along as you're reading the book, or i'm doing a series from a cd i did ten years ago when my own children were small, so messy mcheany is in reality cass yesterday differed, who is now 17. and she said you have to make it about a boy, otherwise everybody will know it's me. >> you outed her. >> i did. >> oy love you, cass yesterday. >> she is was terrible. >> she still is. the finished product that emerges out of her bedroom is pristine and perfect, but the hurricane that has to hit every area, that's my carly. >> all of these books originally

started out as songs, and the illustrator is a guy named peter bay alexander irzone, who actually lives in copenhagen. we've had two children together, but we've never met, but he has a great sense of humor about his illustrations and stuff, so i hopi the second of hopefully many. >> you hear musicians or actors like johnny depp who decided to do pirates of the caribbean for their own kids. you decided when they were older you decided to jump in. why the wait? or are you prepping for the grandkids? >> no, the album, when the cd first came out, my daddy was very ill, and i had no energy, you know, to be marketing anything. whatever time i had left with my dad, i wanted to be with him. so then the years go by, and your window of opportunity is missed. when i came back on television

at the happy hour of the "today" show. >> it's the happy hour. that is a happy hour. >> my legendary book agent -- i see yours, mika, mel burger, he said kathie, why don't you write some books? >> i have in a way. these are very theatrical, and accessible, so he sent it around to the various publishishers. running press agreed, this is our second, and i hope it's one of many. the best way in the world is to teach children is teach them early and teach them with humor, and this has a bunch offing i b, and toots, and this boy is extremely messy, but all of a sudden he has a little sister who is the opposite, and you

thereon you in a toot and a -- kids love these books. >> this will be read tonight. >> george -- >> he's a little young -- >> there's a bonus track on the cd called "here's the deal, banana peel." . when they won't still you what they're thinking, you have to sing -- >> are you recommending that parents sing that to your children? >> yes. how did your children turn out? just fine? >> so far so fine. i don't sing to them. >> and they turned out okay? >> we do that to our staff. >> it helps an awful lot. >> so let's talk about willie and i regularly call the happiest hour in television, the fourth hour of "today." it's gone so well.

i remember when you started it. >> yes. >> a lot of people weren't sure whether it would work or not. >> i wasn't sure. >> it took a little while to get the right casting and to figure out that you and hoda were much better drunk than sober, but once you did it, it's taken off. it's one of those things that on paper, it should have worked. -- our friendship is real. it's all about that. when we got off the plaza, where we couldn't concentrate, when she got rid of the ifb, because we should be talking to each other -- no offense, but not a producer in a booth -- >> they're such jerks. >> and when she got rid of her notes. when all of her professional training went out the window and she started speaking as a human being and we left life happen, that's when everything clicked.

>> is that how you have always done it? >> yes. we never even had a production meeting, regis and myself. >> you would just go out there and talk. >> sight unseen. >> that's perfect. >> and we let life happen. there was ahnen predictable quality, which is lacking so much in television today, i think. there's so much reality television, which isn't real at all. i think people have a real appetite for authenticity. when they see two women who are really being themselves, like us or not, it's real, it's not scripted, and we actually love each other and support one another without bickering and putting each other down, vying for attention, just sharing life together, it's -- now it's not a surprise to me that it would work, but we had to get those elements in line before it could work. >> are you a different performer than where you were with regis? >> a lot of people my age have started tuning in, and didn't

know i loved kathie lee -- >> i don't think i'm any different. i think i've been -- the reins have been taken off, i'm a little more dangerous. i get to be the old cranky one now. before i had to be the cheerleader. now it's so much more fun to be the old cranky one. a "wall street journal" yesterday said i'm a mid 50s women who just doesn't give a rip anymore. it seems to work, because there is an unpredictability again now with what we're doing, and people tune in what are they going to say? we had a wiener fest last week, and television has changed a great deal, too, since the years i worked with regis. you can say almost anything these days. standards and practices are more lenie lenient, shall we say. i think that's a good thing and a bad way in some way.

we try to maintain the responsibility we have, but. >> is your show on a seven-second delay. >> i hope so. it just seems to work. i think you have always been very good, even during hard times, and not really worrying about what people thinks which is a hard thing to do. >> don't you find, as you get older, is the one great benefit is you don't care what everybody thinks anymore. the amount of people whose opinions matters diminishing exponentially where you're down to maybe three, where they really matter and you listen to them, your kids, your husband, your best friend, your mother, your father if you're still blessed to have them. it gets down to what it should be, which is the most important people in your lives are the ones whose opinions truly matter. that's where i'm at. i care what big willie thinks,

though. >> you've got me. >> the legend of messy mcheany. ♪ messy mcheany. >> thank you. >> we're back in a moment. [ male announcer ] finally. the place they've been searching for. the one place that makes it easy to buy a new laptop. or get one fixed. with highly trained tech experts, staples makes repairing technology easy. staples. that was easy. staples makes repairing technology easy. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some

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welcome back. willie, what did you learn? >> i learned with the new book, not only do you get a good story, but a cd of your fine will you abyes. >> that's nice. >> she has a lot of nicknames for you. >> yes, she does. >> mark, what did you learn? >> ironically also about kathie lee gifford. more line steny hoyer than you would think. the similarities are myriad. >> hum. >> what did you learn? >> i defer to you. i'm still thinking. >> you learned nothing? >> yeah, it was kind of a weird day. carole king is