killing the economy republican style. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. leading off tonight, slash and burn. are the republicans trying to tank the economy for their own political gain? that's what senator chuck schumer is charges right now. republicans know president obama's chances of re-election get better as economic conditions improve and that may explain they're eagerness to play chicken with the debt ceiling and the economy. about those republicans. will they go for true believe fler 2012 or big bucks? they're facing with twice michele bachmann and mitt romney. he's got the bank roll but she's the true believer.

who wins? and a fight over abortion ritsz. kansas approved new regulations for abortion clinics regulating everything from the drugs they stock to the size and temperature of procedures in recovery rooms. supporters say the new rules will protect patients but critic sas they're a thinly veiled attempt to shut down abortion clinics. and actor gary sennese, known for lieutenant dan in "forrest gump" he's made a movie. here tonight to talk about the film and a new way you could help wounded service people. finally, imagine -- john lennon, a reagan democrat? that's what his one-time personal assistant recalls. check out the "sideshow" tonight. we start with the economy. senator richard durbin, democrat from illinois and senate majority whip. thank you for coming on "hardball" tonight.

new york senator chuck schumer on the republican's motivation. listen to him first. >> we need to start asking ourselves an uncomfortable question. are republicans slowing down the recovery on purpose for political gain in 2012? and now it's becoming clear that insisting on a slash and burn approach may be part of this plan. it has a double benefit for republicans. it's ideologically tidy and it undermines economic recovery, which they think only helps them in 2012. if the public comes to believe that republicans are deliberately sabotaging the economy, it will backfire politically. >> senator durbin, your view on that charge. is it true? >> i can tell you senator mish mcconnell started the session with a clear pronouncement. his highest priority, making sure barack obama was a one-term president. that's a quote, chris.

we look what's happened on the floor. we bring up garden variety bills that used to pass by a voice vote like the extension of the economic development administration which creates job ace cross america. they inundate them with 100 amendments on every topic under the sn and won't allow us to go forward with the final passage of the bill. you have to say to yourself if they're trying to help create jobs in america why are they killing the bills on the floor of the senate that will create jobs? >> let me ask you the question wide open. seems to me businesses like to have lower payroll taxes, they have to pay tax, the employer's end of it. why wouldn't they want a tax cut in that regard and seem to oppose that, and that's an obama plan? >> i think frankly you've just answered your own question. it's an obama plan. seems to me anything this administration comes forward with, republicans are going to oppose. think what they said about the president's stimulus package. how much they hated it. they failed to acknowledge 40% of the president's stimulus package were tax cuts. that's supposed to be the mantra

of the republican party. the president said, put tax cuts in there. not good enough. unfortunately, unless you pull together in this tough economy, we're not going to get out of the debt. >> let me ask you about this thing -- usually i watch like you do. you have to look at these somewhat objectively. i am stunned to hear that the republicans on capitol hill are now for the first time denying there is any real deadline for coming up with a debt ceiling bill. it's just, any deadline they deny exists saying, we can always borrow some other way, put it off. seems to me they want to see a crash in the economy as the deadline. in other words, go right up to the edge and then over the edge and then they'll cut a deal. have you heard these arguments? a lead editorial says, there is no deadline. go right up to the edge is what they're saying. have the catastrophe and then they'll pick of the pieces. this is republican art. >> contribution let me tell you something, if we don't extend this before august 2rd we'll find ourselves in a deeper recession they're wean just escaping from.

if we don't exceed than on august 2nd, interest rates are going up on government borrows and borrowing on average americans to bay car a home or expand a business. let me tell you that will be an economic catastrophe and we'll be faced with making hard choices in the month of august. have $170 billion suspend and overs 3ds 00 billion in bills. so who do we pay? social security recipients jp medicare? medicaid? our troops that are fighting, federal employees like air traffic controllers and prison guards? it comes down to stark choices. what the president said yesterday is he's impatient. he wants our senate and house to come together in washington and get this job done. not at the last minute but in time so we can send the message to the world that america is in business and moving forward. >> let's hear the other side. here's texas john cornyn taking

on president obama today. here he is. let's listen. >> this is a grand opportunity for democrats and republicans to come together to do the nation's business. to be serious. not to be reckless. not to give demagogic speeches like the president gave yesterday as part of his re-election campaign. absolutely disgrateful. he should be ashamed. i respect the office of the president of the united states, but i think the president has diminished that office and himself by giving the kind of campaign speeches that he gave yesterday. >> so what's up with this use of the term demagogue? pretty strong language. i remember that was almost out of a question for politician to call somebody, the president, a demagogue? >> it's over the line. senator cornyn got emotional in the speech. i like john but was on the floor saying this is not going to have a happy ending.

some of us in public life get carried away with our rhetoric and he went too far. the president said he was impatient. he wanted this problem solve mepd understands we have a deficit and have to work together to solve it. when congressman eric cantor, the house republican leader, walks out on bipartisan budget negotiations two weeks ago that is not an indication of good faith and bipartisanship. he threw it in the lap of speaker john boehner and said go talk to the president. this round of bargains is over. i can understand the president is frustrated. i think i am, too. most americans are. it's time to both parties to sit in a room and not walk out. >> thank you. thank you for joining us. joining us, assistant to the president. stephanie, thank you so much for joining us. do you think there's a republican strategy of slow walking this effort to keep the deficit, to keep -- have the debt ceiling go past the time to avoid a catastrophe?

are they up to something here? i. won't get into their negotiations. i do know we have to come to an agreement. congress have an obligation on the debt limit to avoid the government defaulting on the debt. never happened before. congress always met its obligations and we're expecting it to happen this time. we don't think they're working against the economy. too many people are hurting out there, struggling to make ends meet. we need to show leadership in washington and work for those people. republicans can understand that, and i don't think it's a very good political strategy to talk down the economy or to take actions that hurt the economy. >> maybe you're being too nice. hate to say that about a partisan spokesperson. seems to me when pie read "the washington examinary ." no deadline, go past the deadline in august and have the federal government, interest rates go through the roof, become as junk bond nation, and saying, oh, well, we'll just find ways of triage and get through. what do you think of that statement? is that true? >> obviously, it's not true and everybody knows it's not true.

the treasury set the deadline at august 2nd. every month they update that date and they'll do it again tomorrow at the beginning of the month. whether it moves a day or two doesn't matter. the point is that we're hitting the deadline. we're close to the deadline and have to ask or there will be economic consequences. the president made a point in his press conference yesterday about malia sasha not waiting until the last minute to do their homework. why don't they do it? >> i did the all-nighter and have no room to complain, but on a serious note, we just heard senator cornyn of texas, his job bet republicans to take over the senate next year. do you think he went past the line when he said demagoguery? back in my day, reagan drop add

line like that there was a phone call later apologizing for it. is that the new lingo you call the other side a demagogue, like julius caesar or something? is that okay? >> well, you know i think that, i agree with senator durbin, on your show a second ago saying sometims our rhetoric is out of control. close to the line if not over the line. it's amazing what thin skins people have after the press conference yesterday. all the president said yesterday was, you know, we have to have a little urgency here. our economy is at stake. it's going to take both sides moving a little, out of their comfort zones to get done. that means republicans have to look at closing those tax loopholes. you know, corporate jets, hedge fund manager, the millionaires and billionaires have to get out of their comfort zone if they're

serious about deficit reduction. that's not an insult, not sharp rhetoric. that's just the truth. >> well, stephanie cutter, sthaunk for joining us on "hardball." hope we can have you back again and again during the next couple of months. thank you for tonight. >> thank you. coming up, mitt romney a bank roller. michele bachman, the real thing. between that guy and that woman offering very different deals. one circumstances i got the mon money, the other, i agree with you. i'm not a fraud. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. >> ( rooster crows ) >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network.

president obama and mitt romney both in pennsylvania campaigning. romney hopes it's a preview of the general election. the president's fund-raising in philadelphia in allentown attacking the president's economic policies.

he spoke to reporters outside the now shut shuttered allentown company. the president pushing the stimulus. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." the top two contenders for the republican nomination seem to be mitt romney and our own, i say that because she started here, michele bachmann. even bill clinton is weighing in on their candidacy subpoena here he is on "good morning america" today. >> governor romney is doing a better time as a candidate than four yearsation. more relaxed and convicted about what he did do. less willing to just be forced into apologizing for it. i'm not surpriseed by how well michele bachmann's done. i've been watching her speech. she comes across as real person. allal foster children and those

she's raised. >> whittled down to the bank roller versus it's true believe are and which appeal to the undecided voter will work? bring in the "hardball" strategists and experts democrats steve mcmahon and republican todd. you have a skidszoid, people who believe and those that pretend what they say they have. working for some businesses like merchandising, make a lie detector to see if you are trustworthy or not. should you do that to your candidates? does mitt romney really believe this tea party stuff, that michele bachmann really believes in her dream? you're laughing. is mitt romney the tea party stuff? >> i'm not sure he's trying to present hoimgs as a tea party -- he presents himself as a conservative, certainly. this is a classic battle that -- >> every republican primary. the movement conservative person and the more establishment person, but regardless of how it

shakes out, when people are actually voting, this setup, this context could not be better for mitt romney. >> because -- >> because right now michele bachmann's presence is completely freezing out tim pawlenty and huntsman, the two guys that were trying to occupy this same space that romney is occupying. the better michele bachmann, the worst for them. >> people say i'm a lightweight for this. how come mitt romney cowers when his button at the top doesn't stay together. amazing, explain this to me. how does he keep them together like that? >> custom shirts that mitt romney favors, a single thing that you -- >> let's get back in business. skidsoid situation there. the body and the head thinking go to the middle with romney. romney was nor health care in massachusetts a pro-choicer in terms of abortion rights.

radically different than the tea party people. >> here's what you have going on in the republican party simultaneously. todd's broken down the ideological barrier correctly. conservatives who wants somebody that's pure and the more country club republicans who want somebody more like them, but -- >> you look like a country club -- >> when i put a tie o. more than i do. >> i look like a hippie. >> at the end of the day, the pragmatic republicans, who can be competitive with president obama? who can beat president obama. they know in their heart never michele bachmann or rick perry, anyone on the far right can get that done. >> oh, here's your next point. the republican priprimary, make your point. not jumping up, followed by texas governor rick perry, i don't think they'd recognize in a police lineup and 13 -- he's

got 13. michele bachmann 11. giuliani and palin and paul in there with really low number. back to the usual argument around here, people seem to keep voting for people that aren't run. they don't like the ones that are running. it's like, i don't like anything i see. >> this happens in both parties. i remember people begging mario cuomo, please, run. right now talking, jeb bush, please run. >> marco rubio. >> why are they? >> the political grass is always greener. when they throw their hats into the ring, they're scrutinized. wouldn't it be great if this person who we don't really know very much about, but they seem like they'd about great candidate, and that's what you're seeing in these polls, but these national primary polls don't mean anything. >> let me ask you this. political parties like to have the person up on the podium or that big speaker at the end, male, female, whatever, they want them to believe what they believe. is that important or just to

seize this opportunity to knock off obama? >> i think -- >> do they want romney to believe what they believe? >> of course, you want your party, your candidate, to represent the values of your -- >> represent your beliefs? >> share your beliefs. there's a difference. >> well, this -- >> the point, whatever will beat obama. >> pure opportunism? >> you're talking this is some isolated republican party. let's not forget, barack obama ran for president, was going to close gitmo, end the war -- >> not the only candidate on the left. in other words, hillary clinton was -- >> oba said, name what he said he was going to do and didn't want to do? >> down the bush tax cuts lenchts wanted to do this. >> why did he in 2008 say, if you vote for me in the primary i will, close gitmo, end the war. >> he's trying. couldn't do it. >> he's just ineffective.

not a very good president. >> i'm asking, a fundamental question you were dodging it. can the republican party run somebody who believes in their principles and not somebody that will manage to get by the gate? >> absolutely. >> here's michele bachmann. >> i'm told to let you answer. are you answering? >> i don't think that -- you get to be the final arbiter or whether or not mitt romney -- >> i don't think we can talk about it today. the problem with mitt romney, we don't know what he believes because he's been on both sides on many issues. the ones he remained consistent on, he supported obama care in massachusetts and frankly the president modeled the national health care legislation over what was successful in massachusetts and instead of flip-flopping on that, probably would have been politically opportunistic he stuck to his guns. i'm glad he did, and but i think it's a problem for him in this primary. >> it is a problem for him, and michele bachmann, we've been watching closely since we launched her a few years around here. fortunately, or unfortunately for some. her husband, seems like a nice

person a christian counselor. last year went on a radio program and referred to gays as, barbarians. let's listen to what he said and why. >> we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined, and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we are supposed to go down that road. that's what's called the sinful nature and we have a responsibility as parents and authority figures not to encourage such thoughts and feelings to move into the action step. >> so what do you make of that as a national campaign message, the people who are gay should not activity be gay? that's an odd thing to be making as a public spokesman with a spouse in a political campaign? >> it's not going to be the message of her campaign. probably not language that even she potentially would use, but i will say this. >> barbarians? >> i would assume --

>> here we go. dancing. congresswoman dancing pretty lively there. >> the more the media wants to pick on michele bachmann. >> we don't pick on her. >> the more the base is going to love her. the one thing all republicans are always skeptical of is any candidate the main stream media calls in love with. if the media is attacking bachmann, they're going to be -- >> i'm not four -- >> making these accusations. seems to me, media falling in love -- people like me, liked mario cuomo a true believer. a good man. and then we all fell for colin powell, a lot of us. thought colin powell would be great. none of these guys go anywhere and for a while with john mccain ip admit a main stream media favorite at the time, but they never win. >> that wasn't my point. my point was -- i was on the

mccain 2000 campaign where the press loved john mccain. >> i know. straight talk. we like that. >> the one thing that -- >> we like the straight part. >> the one thing we hear constantly how skeptical of john mccain. why did the media like so much. >> what he was telling the truth. >> you're laughing at that. >> i had a great time. >> i think michele bachmann would make a great nominee and i hope she sees sarah palin on the ticket. >> you're being ridiculous. >> let me ask you this, you know your party best. you do or i do. is there a chance michele bachmann can be the nominee of the republican party? >> a chance but i think it would be tough. yeah, thz a chance. >> the front-runner? >> romney. >> do you think he'll win? >> no idea. >> how come everybody doesn't like him who knows him? why does huckabee call him something terrible? no salt or -- >> running in a primary.

>> mccain wouldn't pick him, he picked palin instead of him. seems these guys don't like him. >> in 2008, i mean, i liked mitt romney, but there's no question that the positions he took in '08, many of them were -- >> different than '04. >> and people who get close to him don't like him. is it jealousy? they don't think he's for real. >> yes, and -- look, he's -- >> do you hear this? >> a sense he's always felt he was entitled and purchased what he wanted. he has a very pretty wife and a very pretty family, he's a very pretty man. there may be a little of envy and there may be jealousy. a very wealthy man but made his wealth buying up companies and carving out employees and ledding them go and getting rid them and saving money that way. that's an issue. >> he made the nomination bu -- heeft a gifted job.

>> he went to michigan and -- >> he said he gets rid of jobs. >> he creates wealth by getting rid of jobs and massachusetts was 47 ouch 50 states in job creation when he was governor. he'll have to defend that record. >> and if you were campaign manager, would you have him take a lie detector test with all the stuff he says he believes? >> i wouldn't do that with any candidate. >> you don't trust any of these -- >> i'd like barack obama to take a lie detector test. >> he could debate -- >> he tried. >> came out good. >> thank you. got a great sense of humor. thank you. up next, imagine, remember this guy? imagine that john lennon actually was a is a supporter of ronald reagan. we'll find out if that's true. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ doctor ] here's some health information for people over 50.

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power. watch what happened in france today as president nicolas sarkozy is out there shaking hands in the crowd, working the old rope line. >> well, the attacker was unarmed, taken into custody. the wild part, sarkozy continued on down the rope line like nothing had happened. talk about cool? next, was john lennon a reagan democrat? the claim made by the beatles personal assistants saying the one-time radical, john basically made it very clear if he were an american he would vote for reigh's because he was really sour on jimmy carter. back in 1980. a lot of people went that way. i voted for carter. hell, i was writing speechs for the day. remember yesterday when obama talked about work ethic, republicans, or lack thereof. >> in one week, they're out one week and then they're saying obama's got to step in?

i've been here. i've been doing afghanistan and bin laden and -- the greek crisis. >> he has a point, if you go by the number of bills passed. through the first hall of this year, 2011, how many bills become law? 18. 15 of those laws named a building after somebody, extended an expiring law or appointed an official to the smithsonian institute. counting all them, 18 laws, this year's not so big number. up next, kansas is inching closer to an all-out ban on abortion. the state approve as new set of regulations critics say is aimed at shutting down all abortion clinics. all three of them in the state. we're hear from both sides. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. i made. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too.

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back to "hardball." kansas may be on track to become the first state in the country to put an end to abortion. the new law requires the state abortion providers to comply with strict new regulations that set equipment, temperature and space requirements and the associate press reports as of today oent one of the state three clinics meept the requirements. effectively shutting them down

tomorrow. they say they're necessary for patients' safety. abortion rights activists say it's nots more than a republican move to get around the law of the land and eliminate abortions in kansas. joining us from "the huffington post," is that true? basically sending a bunch of conditions like they used to do with literacy tests in the south to keep blacks from voting, is this a bunch of regulations to basically kill any chance of having an abortion legally in kansas? >> that's what they seem to be and what they've done. i heard word the third clinic has been denied a license as well, which mean as wom can no longer get an abortion in kansas because of these impossible regulations that they were given two weeks to comply with. >> give me example. >> recovery room twreen 70 and 57 75 degrees. a janitor's closet 50 feet or larger, a dressing room for patients and staff. there has to be -- the recovery ram has to be 150 square feet or

larger. the size and temperature of the room -- >> this is like literally tests for the south. >> exactly. >> my question is are they admitting this is a game? a strategy to kill abortion rights in kansas? >> republicans are not admitting it. saying it's to protect women's health and safety that these clinics aren't safe doctors are saying these regulations aren't even used for hospitals in surgery centers and abortion procedures is much less inves vasive an so it raise as few questions. >> so they never break their game face? >> no. >> never come on, we know what we're doing here? >> no. >> are the people who backed the regulations really hard pro liars? >> they are. >> you can spot their background? >> can you. they passed a number of laws this year. they have a 20-week ban. they have been in private insurance. they've banned insurance providers from covering abortions and minors now have to get permission from parents to

get abortions. it's already really difficult to get an abortion in kansas and this has made it effectively impossible. >> i know you report from here in washington. any way of getting a sense of what this does now. this argument. the supreme court is clear. no undue burden. have all the rules in the world but they can't make it effectively impossible to make that decision. it's your decision. that's what the courts ruled. >> right. >> isn't this something the supreme court will rule basically what they're doing is nullifying the rule of the supreme court here? >> they are. the states are hacking away at roe v. wade now. i knee all three abortion clinics in kansas are planning on fighting this in court and a woman now has to go to missouri for the nearest abortion clinic and if that's not undue burdened i don't know what it. >> if you have to go out of state, that's good case. thank you, from the "huffington host." >> thank you. the president of the center forereproductive rights, filed a lawsuit in federal court on behalf of one of the abortion providers in kansas.

give us your sense, and thank you for joining us tonight on this. it looks to me like this is an attempt to outlaw abortion effectively. is that how you see it? in the state of kansas? >> yes. absolutely an attempt to outlaw abortion in the state of kansas. these are medically unnecessary rules that were put into place in a kind of bogus procedural way, and our clients are not going to be able to provide abortion service tomorrow morning until we get into court tomorrow afternoon. >> what happened -- i won't let you or me make the argument. you're the advocate. it puts women who want an abortion in a double choice situation. travel out of state or go to someone who does it illegally? >> well, absolutely. >> effectively where it's going to come to, isn't it? >> the harm of the law is that they hurt women. one in three women in the united states has an abortion in her lifetime, and in the state of kansas, there are many women who

need to access abortion services, and our clients who provide services as part of the general ob/gyn practice, do deliveries, abortion services, contraception services, they can't provide their patients with abortion services start tomorrow morning unless we're able to get an injunction in court tomorrow afternoon. >> can you get -- which court are you going to? >> we're in the federal district court, moved for a temporary restraining order and think the facts are strong that the court should apply a temporary restraining order. these are medically unnecessary burdensome provisions which, kansas doesn't apply to doctors who do similar procedures. decided general rules about doctors who provide surgical procedures in kansas, they didn't put these requirements into place. >> i don't like the law used this way. we could argue this a million times. the question for you, if this work, copycatting, right? if you can draw up the most onerous regulations in the world, make it 1,000 square feet 2, 000. say a toilet that's 500 feet lie

in the air. make any rule you want, if your goal is to outlaw abortion, what stops it? this direction? what would stop it? >> what needs to stop it is for the -- we need the dort step in and protect women's constitutional rights, and protect the rights of these doctors who are providing services for their patients. i mean, it is so important for us to remember how critical our bill of rights is and that we need the court. analogy of voting rights was excellent. we need the court when majorities trample over the rights of citizens and the supreme court made clear, women have access to abortion services under the constitution and kansas is violating that right now. >> let's look at the supreme court for a minute. only a minute left. seems that sandra day o'connor really held the wall for abortion rights all those years. she's gone. what do you have in the court for the basics of roe v. wade? the right to have an abortion the first two trimesters? 6-3 orts 5-4 now? >> probably 5-4 and justice kennedy was in the majority in

planned parent hd versus cases. we believe that these type of laws will not withstand scrutiny, because they are burtonsome, medically unnecessary and their purpose is to shut down constitutionally protected medical services. >> look, scalia is an honest guy although he has his ideology. i don't see how he can support this. this is a game. not hoechbt law making. whatever side you're on, this is not the way to decide the issue. it should be decide and a principle, a right or not a right. thank you for coup coming on. >> thank. after gary sinise is going great work for wounded soldiers, when we return. this is "hardball" on msnbc.

general david petraeus, unanimously confirmed by the u.s. senate at the new director of the cia. the vote was 94-0. pa tray top commander in both afghanistan and iraq before that

takes over for leon panetta, moving over to defense secretary. panetta's nomination also unanimous. we'll be right back.

ever since we went, everyone recognized gary, but he didn't know who he was. all they knew was, it's lieutenant dan. they didn't know it was gary sinise.

>> if i had a nickel for every time somebody called knee i could retire just doing uso shows. >> great stuff. eight years ago, gary sinise, forrest gump's lieutenant dan, formed a lieutenant ban dan way portion of proceeds going to support the mill tear and their families. gary sinise joins us right now. lieutenant dan. just talking. that's got to be the most inspiring scene. so down in that movie, lose your legs come back with prosthetic ace cross the field. stirring moment. >> it's a beautiful story. >> what does that tell you, that experience? and how does that get you looking out for the hearts of our sol xwleers get hurt bad? >> the experience of lieutenant dan actually led me to the disabled american veterans organization. i, about a month after i did "forrest gump" i did a call from the national commander, the dav

anhe asked me to come to their national convention, which was going to be held in chicago that year. i went to that convention. i walked out onstage. there were 3,000 people in the audience. 2,500 disabled veteran. these who could stand were standing. people in wheelchairs. she's of disabled veterans from world war iii -- world war ii, up to that time, and i stayed involved ever since and then september 11th rolled around and i just wanted to volunteer to go out there and serve and to try and help our active duty folks out. >> you know, we always have big debates as we go off to war. iraq, we've debated, afghanistan, and yet the results, of course, there are wounded soldiers and permanently wounded soldiers. what do you think the country is missing? what are they missing you can fill in for and we ought to be doing? we've been over there. i should go over more often. you've probably done a lot of that?

>> i go there on a fairly regular basis when i'm here in town and then i've been to land strum in germany and bethesda. a lot of wounded warrior support programs out there that popped up around the country that are trying to fill those gap, but what i would always recommend to somebody is you have a wounded soldier, they come back. they go through their rehabilitation, are spending a lot of time at walter reed and all of a sudden are going back to take up civilian life in their small community. the communities can play a part in taking care of that wounded warrior. they can get out there and support. they can reach out to that family, help fill the -- >> go up and knock on it's door? >> absolutely. i would say, help that family out. help the family of a deployed soldier out. just go out. find out who's deployed in your communities. find out who's serving, who's been wounded and just reach out and help, locally. it starts locally. people just going out there and hebs your neighbors out, and from there you can find out all kinds of --

>> a documentary we're talking about. the troops talk about what it means to get away and listen to real music when your band goes out. >> on a uso show, coming to a base like this, so this was a special treat for them and it was for us as well. >> to be away. >> to breathe for a minute. to be out here it's an awesome break, because we stand like that for hours on end. so nice to get some real music. >> it shows somebody wants to believe in us and be here for us when we're being tortured and tormented to go to iraq. >> our friend frank said that years ago. a plan to the political left, and went around doing uso tours like you, said it's amazing how the soldier, men and women, react to it? >> i've been involved with veterans for, longtime veterans groups out of the chicago area

and as i said, got involved with disabled veterans organizations back in the mid-90s and now i'm out there trying to do what i can to serve and to give back to our warriors today. this military is stressed. i see a lot of smiling faces when i ge out there and i perform for them, and through this documentary, lieutenant dan -- >> how do we get to see this stuff? >> they're actually -- what i hope folks will do is go to ltdanban movie.com. pre-register to see the movie for $4 on july fourth for 30 days, you'll be able to watch the movie online for 30 days. say they're all over the world struggling. they have internet access in some small base in afghanistan, they can put in their $4, watch the movie. one out of every $4 goes to the gary sinise foundation set up to support our troops and our first

>> yeah. >> it's inspiring to see the kind of people and to meet the kinds of people we have serving our country out there. you know, half a percent ofsin citizenry of the united states goes out and defend this. it's a dangerous world. you and i know that. we need the military families to stay strong and resilient. we all know what the vietnam war veterans, what happened to them. they couldn't acknowledge they were in the service. we don't want that to ever happen again to our service members. >> two different issues. how we treat them and their orders. these men and women deserve the best in civilian leadership. the movie premieres july 4th. you can koch, ltdandanmovie.com.

when we return, freedom what it means to me and what it doesn't. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. >> ( rooster crows ) >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network.

>> let me finish tonight with the word we all celebrate this 4th of july. i mean, all of us. left, right and center. it's freedom. that's the word that gets to us, moves us, because in good cases

we know the feeling of being out there on our own. it's most basic. it's what we thought at night as teenagers, out from the grip of authority, with control. out as individuals on our own to to feel and do what people feel and did. i know people like you treasure freedom. this word means something to all of us, to each of us. in times also, this rub means somewhat different things to different americans. people are different in their separate interests. to me, freedom means freedom of speech, freedom to see movies, read books i want. say what i want. i have that kind of freedom here on "hardball." an hour anight, five nights a week. you can probably figure me out by the mix of things i say here. it means the ability it run a business, that dirties the air. hurts the planet. that's freedom that i say should end in a nano second and takes away from the person within breathing distance. which as we get more thrown together on this planet, all of us, freedom to pollute, to hurt the climate of this planet.

not the kind anyone would be willing to die for, don't you think? what about the freedom to exploit people? make money by suppressing the hopes of others. screwing their paychecks down to the bones. you get the work out of them but you don't get to live to work. is the free do. walking into a restaurant or hotel, is that the freedom someone would die for? it is not about the right it bear arms but to flaunt them. freedom, i would say it is the things soldiers fight for. yes, the liberties discussed in the bill of rights thp they include the right it speak, to read, to think, the to pray the way you want. just because you want to. when i went to the berlin wall when i came down that drizzling night, i was with a crowd of people on the eastern side of the gate an organized a session of "hardball." i decided to a ask a crowd of east germans wh what freedom went to them. what is freedom? i kept asking.