women and five men deciding the fate of one woman. >> to say that there is no evidence to connect casey anthony to caylee's death ignores all of this evidence. >> accused of murdering her own child. >> you can't trust this evidence. >> this crime scene is not staged. it was not moved. that duct tape has been on caylee since the day that she died. >> the prosecution had the last word. >> all you really have to do is ask yourself is ampl question, whose life was better without caylee? >> and jurors got a last listen and look at casey. >> no. i don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. you're not telling me where she's at. >> because i don't [ bleep ] know where she's at. are you kidding me? >> for legal analysis on that.

let's bring in criminal defense attorney meg strictler. she's outside the courthouse where jurors are deliberating. each jury member has stated that they would consider the death penalty. what's your take on them? what do you think they'll decide? >> reporter: i don't think they're going to give the death penalty. i don't think at all because of the gravity of such a verdict. the state did an excellent job throughout this whole trial. they didn't prove first-degree murder in my opinion. i'm 100% on the not giving the death penalty. that is such a large thing to give and so rare. we know if they did give a death penalty, she's going to sit on death row for 50 years anyway because she's given the death penalty. i don't think they're going to do that. what i think they're going to do is second-dug. that's splitting the describes between the charges. she'll still get life in prison, but i really fundamentally and 100% no death penalty here. the state only had

circumstantial evidence. they never showed how caylee died. they never showed who was last with caylee. they just showed that casey is a pathological liar. the defense conceded that. that is true. they didn't prove the things that you see on tv in reality csi stuff, dna, fingerprints, none of that. and i liked baez' closing argument. he pointed out, no, no. with a flip chart saying no dna, no fingerprints, no nothing. that shows we have a dead body here, but no way did they prove premeditated murder to give the death penalty. >> in response to bay yez' closing arguments, this was played by the prosecution. take a listen. >> i just want to talk to tony and get a little bit of -- >> casey, you have to tell me if you knowing a nbt caylee -- >> sweetheart -- >> if anything happened to caylee, i'll die.

do you understand if anything happened to that baby? >> oh my god. calling you guys, a waste. a huge waste. >> that's just part of the phone call that was played yesterday. how damning do you think this phone call was to this case? >> reporter: wow. understand this jury has been sitting listening to this evidence since the end of may. and that phone call was given to them very early in the trial. so they did an excellent job bringing that back. effectively it was like casey testifying. and showing who she really is. having the f bomb thrown left and right. acting so disrespectful and then the worst part is what happened your daughter? she says no i want my boyfriend's number. forget everything else. i want my boyfriend's number. she looked awful. that was such a great thing to add on. emotionally for the prosecution which as i said yesterday, that hurt and it upped the ante for them to go to first-dug. i'm still hoping it will be second. >> thank you very much for your analysis today.

the casey anthony murder trial has been much see tv for some people ever since it began since may 24th. it's been called the most riveting drama since o.j. simpson stood trial for the murder of his ex-wife. with ovmts j. you can understand the obsession, a celebrity, former football star, a beautiful ex-wife and the bronco chase. the attorney dream team tried on that glove, why the fascination with this florida mom? psychologist frank farley is former president of the american psychological association. is this obsession any surprise? >> not at all. in fact, both of those cases the o.j. and the casey anthony. this one may be a bigger mess there seems to be less csi type evidence, forensics. one of the key ingredients is uncertainty. there's so much ambiguity. so much uncertainty, so many loose ends.

and we are fascinated by that. throughout human history we wanted to know what's on the other side of the mountain. what's on the other side of the curtain. you have this uncertainty. a very bizarre trial. at the top of my list of bizarre features the trial is the prosecutors' theory of the motive as a psychologist that's about as bizarre as it gets. the idea that casey anthony suddenly wakes up one morning and says gee, i could have more fun if i kaled my daughter. that's as bizarre and unsound set of psychological reasoning as i've seen in years. so the public is fascinated by all these loose ends. the ambiguities, the why, the why. the lying. that's one of the central features. we're always interested in lying. >> what about that? is man accused of killing his daughter, would it be any different here? >> i don't think -- a little bit. we all believe there's a special bond mother to daughter.

and it goes against our whole evolutionary past, our deep, deep instincts this whole thing. and i think that the trial really wrapped it up very well on either the defense or the prosecution side. >> what doo you make of this? as we watch the interest and obsession you're not very surprised about, there's iphone appst, there's a sentence calculator on the website of our orlando affiliate. you can basically check what you think the decision will be and it will tell you therefore the sentence. what do you think of all that? >> we live inside the media. it's a media saturated society today. i'm not surprised by any of that. by the way, i wanted to add on two things. a child is involved. that differed from the o.j. case. boy, americans don't like to see kids who are dead and thrown into bushes. they want to get to the bottom of that kind of heinous behavior. families where we've all come

from a family in one way or the other. family effects last forever. here we're looking into a very -- a family with tons of issues. >> psychologist frank farley, of course, it's not good news either way you look at it when you see the loss of life of young caylee. thank you for your time. we're waiting for the deliberations to finish. stay with us on msnbc for the very latest as we get more information on this case. former imf chief dominique strauss-kahn may soon be off the hook on the sex assault charges involving a new york hotel maid. he may soon get slapped with sex charges back in france. jeff ross has been following the strauss-kahn case from the very beginning. he joins me right here in studio. you've had a very business i didn't say day, my friend. >> i think many legal experts agree for a case like this that involves a sexual assault you need a credible witness. the entire case aside from

forensic evidence comes down to the witness on the stand. if prosecutors don't believe that witness or she has lied in the past not only about her past but also about some scenario incident this particular incident. legal experts say there's no way to continue this case. they don't know it is not the d.a. saying it didn't happen. there wasn't something that happened. they're just saying, if they do drop the charges, we don't think we can prove it with this witness. >> that's that. there's also france now. >> so a french journalist and novelist she was writing a book. and in 2002 she says when she interviewed dominique strauss-kahn for her book, he sexually attacked her. threw her down, attempted rape. she has not filed anything for all of these years. in 2007 she came out publicly and started talking about it, but still didn't file. now she says she wants to file because she saw dsk eating at a fancy restaurant in new york as we have reported.

he did that on friday night just within hours of his release from bail. he enjoyed a $700 dinner. when she saw that, she told the french magazine it made her sick. she decided that she wants to now press these charges against him and says she will file a criminal complaint today for a sexual assault against him in france. >> he would also like to countersue. >> he's saying i'm going to take legal action against her for defamation. >> all sorts of wrinkles to that story with dominique strauss-kahn. thank you very much. dramatic survival stories being told today even as authorities expand the search for seven americans who are lost at sea in waters off mexico. the tourists were on an annual fourth of july fishing expedition when their boat with 43 on board capsized after it was caught in an overnight storm. at least one unyiefed man was killed. 35 others survived after clinging to coolers and life vests in shark infested waters for more than 16 hours.

charles gipson swam for his life and shared his incredible story of survival. >> i kept reflecting on my family and friends and situations to help me continue to swim. i had to swim the whole time in order to try to fight the current. >> mexican authorities say with the warm weather and water temperature it's still impossible that the others missing are still alive. now to politics. what some analysts could be a three way race for the gop's 2012 presidential nomination, mitt romney and michele bachmann appear to be fighting it out for first and second place. and waiting in tings with, texas governor rick perry appears to be getting his act together for a debut on the national stage. we're joined by a democratic national strategist. and a republican strategist. john, let's start with you, what would a rick perry can dadsy bring to this race, if it is down to two at the moment?

>> rick perry really is the social conservative's choice, i think. he's been a very ektive governor in texas. i think the social conservatives -- right wing conservatives specialry like him. i think he would most pose a challenge to michele bachmann who has really clung to the tea party label. so if you're looking at the establishment of republicans and then the tea party republicans i think perry would compete effectively for the tea party republicans. that would offer a big challenge to mitt romney. >> keith, why is at this moment rick perry holding out? >> i wish i could tell you what's going on inside rick perry's head. i think he's probably deciding if he's a legitimate candidate. if he can win the gop nomination. i think he is threatened by michele bachmann. i think she's sort of obviously protects the same type of people that are part of her base, part of his base. there's the question of electablity. if he wins the gop nomination,

could he win the presidency? could he beat obama obama? i'm not convinced he could. >> what do you think, john, who would be the builtest threat to barack obama of three? >> i think romney would be the biggest threat. i think perry would come in second and i think that bachmann could would come in third. mitt romney has the organization out there. he has a compelling story when it comes to turn around artists. he turned around the olympics. he turned and massachusetts and turned around -- i think people want a turn around artist. perry has a story to tell about what he's done in texas as far as jobs and basically taxes and those types of things. i think bachmann has to be the most colorful story. the most explosive ability to get cable news to cover her. but i don't think that she's the most effective candidate. >> keith, your thoughts? >> i think it's interesting that john chose to use the word turn around artist in describing mitt

romney. if you look at his flip-flops from health care, to abortion to cap and trade, that's what he is. his state ranked 47 in terms of 50 states in terms of job creation when he was governor of that state. his biggest issue is association with the health care system that barack obama has used as a platform for creating national health care reform. how he wins the gop nomination threads that needle is going to be a real difficult challenge for him. >> when you look at campaigns there's the issue of baggage. take a look at baggage here, who do you think has the largest amount, john? >> well, keith pointed to romney care which i think is a big problem with some republican voters. i think that michele bachmann has this history of comments that hurt her with voters. perry has the least amount of baggage. he has done a pretty good job as governor of texas. i think he's got some comments in his past which might hurt him with independent voters and also

being so closely associated with texas which there is some concern about george bush being from texas and texas, oh. >> we've seen this movie before. >> we've been there, done that. that could be a problem. the biggest baggage i think is going to come with president obama. he's had a chance to govern for three and a half years when the election happens and he hasn't got a lot done to help revive the economy. i think when it comes to baggage, president obama is going to have a lot of baggage. >> one quick point coming off where we started in 2008, 2009 with the recession that george bush gave us. the idea that we have had 18 consecutive months of job growth in this rough economy -- on friday we'll get some more evidence of where the future is going. >> fingers crossed by all when we get those numbers. thank you both. we have to run now. thank you for your time. >> thank you. breaking news right now.

we're learning that the body found in indiana is not that of missing indiana university student lauren spierer. the body has been identified as a young african-american woman, but coroner's office has not yet identified who she is. officials say the body is in bad shape. lauren spierer was last seen over a month ago. it is almost the end of an era. nasa prepares for its final shuttle launch. i'm talk with a former astronaut. first, a look at how wall street is doing right now. the numbers up this after we had a record week last week. the biggest in almost two years. we'll take that. we'll see how this week continues. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.

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snow melts in montana. floodwaters are accounting off access to an affected area. the company admits the damage could get worse. up to 42,000 gallons of crude oozed into the river before the leak was contained over the weekend. officials are investigating the cause there. the final countdown has begun. there will be present kri of cheers and tears as shuttle atlantis takes off this friday on nasa's last sult mission. after atlantis the 30-year shuttle program comes to an end. joining me now is le roy ciao a retired nasa astronaut who has logged 229 days, seven hours and 38 minutes and five seconds of his life outside the earth's atmosphere. he plans to watch atlantis take off. we had it down to the second for you. as you watch this final mission, how emotional will it be for you to watch?

>> well, it will be quite emotional. of course, i grew up in the shuttle era. you know, came in right in the heart of it through -- flew three of my missions aboard the space shuttle. the space shuttle is going to have a special place in my heart. i'm sorry to see her go. >> we all remember it throughout time in the movies. i refer back to "moon raker" the movie that brought the space shuttle program to a lot of people's awareness. you have worked closely with the technology in the shul before. you said in one interview until recently there was a tape drive even inside of the space shuttle. >> that's right. actually the come computer system when i came in still had iron core memory. it had a tape drive that until fairly recently, the last decade or so has been replaced. it used to store the entry software that the computers needed because there wasn't enough memory in the main computers. >> iron core, what's that? i don't even know what that? >> the iron core memory is the old style memory that used wires and little magnetic ovals like

donuts that would flip to do your memories. it was quite primitive. but radiation hardened. >> it worked. you have described this as an amazing machine with the million of parts that it has. why did you describe it that way? >> it's the -- it's the most capable flying machine that's ever been con sooefd, designed and built and op ratd. nothing else comes close. it talks off vertically like a robert. turns into a superb orbital platform for research work or construction. we could not have built the space station without it. and turns into an airplane for a conventional landing on orunway and gets refurbished to be reused. >> it is amazing. what's your favorite part of the shuttle? >> the favorite part of shuttle as a specialist i was doing a specialist for space walks, i did many space walks. i did -- i'd have to say the

shuttle air lock is my portal to the universe. >> very nice. do you think here that nasa's making the right decision here then by retiring the program and moving on to this next technology which is similar to the old apollo rockets? >> right. the crew sploerks vehicle being designed for deep space exploration. in that context it makes sense to have a vehicle like that. now as far as the transportation from lower orbit to the international space station a lot of that is supposed to be taken over by commercial efforts, which i support. i'm hopeful that will work out. i'd like to see the government actually develop a follow on shuttle. that's not going to happen for budgetary reasons and other reasons. i hate the fact that we're going to lose this knowledge of how to build an operational space vehicle. >> we hope you can enjoy the work over the decades. thank you for your time today. >> thank you very much, richard. good to be with you.

>> msnbc will have live coverage of the launch of the very last shuttle mission. this friday liftoff is scheduled for 11:26 a.m. right here on msnbc. of course, don't miss that. it's not fourth of july without a hot dog eating contest. joey chestnut going for his fifth. that hurts to watch. is he still the top dog? plus the amazing story behind this zoo photo. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance,

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a prison baek attempt in mexico and it's caught on camera. a woman trying to sneak her husband out of prison and look at this. in a really big suitcase. maybe not that big. prison staff found the curled up inmate after they noticed that

the woman was looking a little bit nervous and pulling -- is man is in prison for illegal weapons possession. a very enterprising monkey in indonesia managed to catch himself on camera. a photographer in the jungle stepped away from his equipment and the monkey came to strike a pose. ended up with some decent self-portraits. the smiling one at the top was probably the most shocking to me. look at that one. joey chestnut does it again. the man known as jaws won his fifth title many the nathan's international hot dog eating contest yesterday. jaws polished off 62 dogs in ten minutes at the annual fourth of july event on coney island. not far away in manhattan. chestnut's archrival kobayashi who is banned from the contest because he will not sign an exclusive contest. he claims he put away 69 hot

dogs. that was out of competition, it doesn't count. a lot of hot dogs consumed. debt deadline congress has two weeks to reach a deal on the debt ceiling. republicans refuse to consider new taxes kchl a deal be reached here. i'll talk with senator chris coops. today prince william is doing something more on their doing something more on their terms. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

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roger clemmons was at the federal courthouse in d.c. today for motion hearings. jury selection for his perjury trial begins tomorrow. he's accused to have lying to congress about steroid use. daniel radcliffe is no longer drinking alcohol. the 21-year-old actor tells "gq" he began to film too much while filming in 2009. with less than a month to go before the united states runs out of money and still no sign of an agreement on raising the nation's credit limit, could a constitutional crisis be the only way to solve the nation's debt dilemma? senator chris coombs is a member of the budget committee. thanks for joining us today. >> thanks for a chance to be on. >> eugene robinson writing this in today's "the washington post," he says quote, obama's in your face attitude seems to have thrown republicans off their stride. they thought all they had to do was convince everyone that they were crazy enough to force an

unthinkable default on the nation's financial obligations. now you have to wonder if obama is crazy enough to let them. he's referring to letting the clock run out on the debt ceiling deadline. do you see this debate coming down to a game of chicken? >> richard, i really hope it doesn't. it's important for us to convey to the american people, to working families to the global investment climate that we're going to responsibly reach a negotiated middle compromise. a position where we all come together and agree that we're going to cut $4 trillion in federal spending over the next decade. that's the number, the target that's been agreed to. every responsible bipartisan commission that's looked at this, we can and should be able to do that by cutting from every major part of the federal budget. from pentagon spending from entitlement reform, from discretionary spend angd through tax reform that increases revenue. i support the president in his insisting that everything has to be on the table. and we need to find a path forward that includes shared

sacrifice. frankly i'm very worried that we've got very little time left to reach the sort of compromise that we need to reach. >> how much time do you think we have? >> about two weeks, frankly because the congressional budget office requires about ten days in order to score a proposal. the way the rules of the senate and house work almost any member of the senate can stop almost any bill from being considered on the floor. while the details of this package may be being negotiated by leadership, every member of the senate is going to have to be briefed and obviously a majority is going to have so sign off on it. i'm concerned that we really need to bear down and focus on the next two weeks in coming up with a package that everyone can get behind. >> we started with this during the introduction, a section of the 14th amendment requires that the nation pay its bills. do you think this allows the president to override the debt ceiling as discussed over the weekend? >> well, i think it's an interesting legal argument. but i frankly don't think we should reach it. i think with the market and what

americans need from us is that we bear down and do our jobs. if the president has to rely on this obscure passage from the 14th amendment that was passed right after the civil war to pull a rabbit out of the hat and try and prevent us from defaulting and america's mortgage, that's a sign that we in congress have profoundly failed to do our job. there have been on the table responsible bipartisan proposals since march that we could come together around and that would allow us to put a floor under america's economy by dealing with our deficits for the long-term. there may be some avenue there for the president to pursue. it would create a constitutional crisis of interpretation and application of this portion of the 14th amendment. i really don't recommend it. i think we need to come together. >> we've been on both sides of the argument for and against this constitutional with the 14th amendment. why did you switch back a and forth? >> i think i have back and

forth. i was misquoted in huffington post saying it was something that was being discussed. a reporter came up to me in the hallway of the capital and said what do you think to have provision of the 14th amendment not having seriously considered it before, i said it's an option. but i've been clear from that first interview i don't think we should reach it. i think congress needs to do its job and pass a budget. we've had a number of proposals put on the table the coming week, the democrats and the budget committee will put forward our plan. i frankly think the most difficult challenge we face the republicans intransigents including some revenue in this package. they have sunk the negotiations that were being led by vice president biden. those have broken off because of a refusal to consider any closing of tax loopholes any additional revenue into the package. i do think it would be fair for us to include spending cuts and

some revenue increases without raising tax rates. the two bipartisan commissions that i referred to before put a lot of detail in front of us in the budget commission. there's a lot of concrete and sound proposals how to do that. we need to come together and embrace them. >> thanks for speaking with us. you have a busy two weeks ahead of you. thank you. venezuelan president hugo chavez made a surprise return to his home country from cuba after being treated for cancer there. >> reporter: yes. you can see the west of venezuela the city that welcomed chavez as a hero. his surprise return in the wee hours of monday's morning sent a powerful message saying he remains in control. uncertainty grew in venezuela during the past tle weeks as he was away in cuba recovering from surgery as he underwent an operation to remove a cancerous

tumor as we know. people were asking how long his recovery will take and how long will he take to come back to venezuela? however, yesterday, he appeared. he looked strong. he looked enthusiastic and in the afternoon he addressed the crowds from the balcony of the presidential palace. he said he was very thankful for their support. he said he was strong and he had to take care of himself because he had to really work on his recovery, but that this was a battle that he was going to win. he appeared wearing his combat ta feegs, his red velvet that he's used in other times. he appeared together with his daughters. the crowd was cheerful. a very enthusiastic crowd that was supporting his return. -hour, many of us in venezuela still believe that many questions haven't been answered yet. they say that they still don't

know what is the type of cancer he has. how long will his recovery take, and if this cancer will force him to leave his office. this is the atmosphere in venezuela and the latest report from this country. >> thank you. princess catherine has been wowing fabs and fashionistas during his canadian tour with her wardrobe choices. she and prince william will be playing street hockey after he bested her at dragon boat racing. kate is making headlines over headlines she made about having a baby. peter alexander is following the royals and joins me live from yellowknife, northwest territories in canada. >> reporter: a lot going on about that street hockey game that's expected an hour from now, richard. they're hoping to get the duke and duchess involved. she may drop the puck. we'll keep you updated on how that plays out today. in the northwest territories

this massive region, the northern most part of their trip is roughly five times the size of the entire united kingdom. only 43,000 people live here. they're going to get a chance to meet some of those people only a short time from now. perhaps the real headline to date has been what happened in the crowd on sound in quebec city. what they may have said about their family plans. that has everybody talking. >> it was easy for royal admirers to ignore the wet weather on prince edward island on monday, there was consensus again, william and kate shined. in what's known as the birthplace of canada their arrival alone was ceremonious riding down historic great george street. the royal canadian mounted police as their escorts thousands of fans craning for a glimpse. >> kate -- they're so perfect. so nice to see them. >> later william a search and rescue helicopter back home took

the controls of the canadian forces c king. while kate snapped photos, the prince learned an emergency landing maneuver called water birding. the duke and duchess of cambridge weren't down with the water going head to head in a boat race. the image alone reminded many people of this shot of kate four years ago that catapulted her back into the spotlight shortly after she and william rekindled their romance. on monday after william's team won, they seemed less like royalty, more like newlyweds. throughout this trip kate's star quality and fashion mesmerized observers. and her cream colored dress monday made by sarah burton the same designer who fashioned kate's wedding dress this spring. then there was that moment on sunday shortly after kate accepted a bouquet from a young girl in this quebec city crowd. one man wished the duchess well starting her own family.

kate thanked him and reportedly said, yes, i hoped to. four words. but the first time the future queen has spoken about having children. enough to get the british tabloids buzzing about a possible heir. >> reporter: prince william of course, the child of diana and charles was born just 11 months after they were wed. also right now, richard, we have some breaking news we can share with you. the palace is officially reporting that william and kate tomorrow on what was supposed to be their private day will be visiting a place slave lake in alberta. it was badly damaged by a fire in may this year. a third of the homes there destroyed. from there they go to kale and friday they go to the u.s. >> peter alexander, thank you. coming up, why the nation's largest teachers union is throwing its support behind president obama despite some big

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fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one. . a new study finds treating heart disease with intensive statten therapy could increase a patient's risk of diabetes. researchers discovered while patients receiving statten therapy had fewer strokes and heart attacks, they were more likely to develop diabetes during treatment. researchers say doctors should be mindful of this. everyone knows bosses get big paychecks. are you ready for this?

according to a study in "the new york times," executive paychecks jumped by a whopping 23% last year to arn average of $10.8 million. that was even as the economy was supposed to be working through the after effects of a recession. at the same time workers brought home about $752 a week. up just a fraction from 2009. with inflation workers actually earned less than the year before. we reported on this. thank you for being here with us today. why are we seeing this sort of bump? we see the ceo pay up 23%. worker pay 0.5%? >> the cash bonuses are really the story here. ceos got an average of 40% increase in talked bonuses last year. that was a really big help on their bottom lines for their income. they got a lot of stock options and stock awards. of course, when you award stock options and stock awards when

the market was down in 2008 and 2009, you're seeing those levels increase quickly now the markets will back up above the 12,000 monday. >> it looked at the nation's largest companies that was really the focus. we look at the biggest payouts. the areas where we saw a lot of this money go to doctor th $10.8 million, media, oil and commodities and technology as well. media didn't necessarily have a great year, for instance. >> yes, that was definitely surprising. six of the top highly paid executives were from media companies. this draws a lot of ire from consumers as they see their cable bills rising and advertising is just starting to rebound. you're not seeing a big return on it. the top paid executives were definitely dominated by the media companies. >> technology, i understand. that makes sense. oil tends to always do well. >> specially with high gas prices. >> now the fastest paychecks. just some of the folks that did get those big dollar sums that we're talking about, the

compensation packages. $84.5 million was the biggest number here i believe the executive of via kom. that is a big number. $84.5 million. >> the way they explain it he got a special one time stock award because he signed a new long-term contract that he won't be getting next year. in 2009 he earned $34 million. it's still a pretty high paycheck. >> is there a concern here -- this is one example. is there a concern that executive pay is bouncing back faster than the economy? we saw when that came to the everyday workman's salary? >> there's a lot of concern among pay experts that pays are soaring. they are seeing that for example stocks are not necessarily rising as fast as ceo pay is rising and revenues are not rising as fast as ceo pay is rising. >> of course, the big concern here shareholders total return. that's what they care about in some cases paid more if they're

not getting necessarily a big share bump when it comes to shareholders. p.j. thank you for your time today from "the new york times." stay with us, we'll be right back.

the national education association 3.2 million strong voted to back the president in its earliest endorsement ever. that's before the republican field has even narrowed to a single candidate. we have the vice president of the national education association with us. thank you for joining us today. traditionally they endorse in july of election year. why this time so early for president obama and your endorsement of him? >> we've started endorsing and recommending presidential candidates as far back as jimmy carter. the elections have really changed so that you get people in much earlier and you get people spending such a big amount of money. if you're going to get in four

months before the election, you're the last one to get in. now we feel like we'll be more relevant. we'll get in in a timely manner. we want to be able to make a difference in this election. >> but the republican field as i was mentioning has not even really narrowed to have a candidate much less windows down to even three? >> and yet, every single candidate that we've looked at has pretty much said we support privatizing social security, voucherizing medicare, they have not been supportive of affordable college, day care, health care for our children. so as we look at all of them, we said president obama who did receive our support before is a very strong candidate on those issues. will remain a strong candidate. it makes sense that we get in and help him as soon as possible. >> for the first time the nea has passed something, it has passed a policy that ties teacher evaluations to evidence of student learning. but still opposes standardized

test scores used to judge teachers. the obama administration supports test driven evaluations. why the opposition? >> i think there's a huge misunderstanding. with the general public about what a test score measures and what it doesn't measure. what's historic about what we've done here is for the first time instead of saying what we are against, we've said what we're for. if you're going to use tests to judge a student to judge a teacher to judge a school, there ought to be evidence that that test is valid and reliable to make that judgment. there are very, very few high quality tests that exist today. and what's happening with a lot of politicians and press and people who are looking for a simple answer to a very complex school system is they say let's just take any old commercial test and we'll pretend that it means something it was never

designed to mean. now nea is you can tag about what we stand for. >> thank you. i wish we had more time. i appreciate your time today discussing this important issue in education today. have a great tuesday. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow. up next, "andrea mitchell reports." thanks so much. up next on "andrea mitchell reports," we're in the final countdown a month to go before the u.s. hits the debt ceiling limit. senator john corn anyone joins us to talk about the possibility of a deal before the deadline. and nasa prepare for the the last shuttle liftoff. just one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day "andrea mitchell reports" next on msnbc. "andrea mitchell reports" next gas and bloating. with three rains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.

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right mow on "andrea mitchell reports," on the fifth of july, all the fireworks are in congress. called back from vacation to deal with the debt ceiling crisis. will either side blink?