list of the 400 richest americans with bill gates at the top of the list with $59 billion. it's amazing how much money you can save when you cut your own hair. snl back from a long summer off. we asked you at the top of the show what rob gifford has an answer. >> jane writes, your dad is really great. love the men's shoes, the line of the day, close mouth, open wallet, keep that in mind as your turn is coming soon. >> well, my daughter's 4, so i hope i have a little bit of time. the shoes , by the way, the groom's idea. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ perry really did throw up all over himself in the debate in a time he needed to raise his game. he did worse, it seems to me, than he'd done in previous

debates. romney was strong as he has been lately. he has raised his game in reaction to the emergence of perry. perry is about 1/2 step away from almost total collapse as a candidate. >> good morning. it's monday, september 26th, welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have the executive editor at random house and john meacham. >> calm down. we're working on it. keep it together. >> and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner joining us, as well. and michael steele. michael, good to have you onboard this morning, as well. >> good morning. good to be with you. >> and willie geist. i've got to tell you, i've got to tell you, last night -- you know the sox get hammered the afternoon game. >> yep. >> making a.j. burnett look

good. >> hard to do. >> that is hard to do. very hard to do. and then he pitches, gave up three runs in the first inning. >> didn't get a lot of help from the defense. >> not a lot of help from defense. but he held on and i can't believe it. and they actually -- the red sox won a game. the red sox won a game. the red sox won a game. >> that play right there, you thought, here we go again. they throw the ball to the outfield, he comes around to score, but they fought back. that was a huge win last night, ellsbury hits a home run to win the game. they're tied for the wild card, no momentum, looks like it'll go to the rays. now up a game with three to play, they get the orioles, braves have to play the yankees. you're still betting on the red sox to go to the playoffs. >> not that i'm obsessing on this, because i'm not, but the "boston globe" posted a column that called that ellsbury's mvp

moment. he hits two home runs yesterday at yankee stadium in the afternoon and then wins it in the 14th for them. this guy's the first 30-30 in red sox history and wins the game in the 14th. a magical inning as red sox fans will tell you. >> what happens if the red sox get to the playoffs -- >> new life. new life. >> every inning is a new day. >> don't worry -- >> we were there until the 12th. we were there last night. >> i was there until the ninth. >> were you? >> i wake up at -- >> were you the guy drinking and throwing the beers? >> throwing the beers from the upper deck. >> but you didn't throw up over yourself. >> let's show the wild card again. it is in the american league, one game up, three games left, they play the baltimore orioles, tampa bay plays the yankees, that should be advantage to the red sox. it wasn't last week. over the national league, though, the team of my youth,

the atlanta braves, and the red sox. >> and the cardinals have been playing well. >> and the cardinals playing well. this is inexplicable that the two teams i've followed my entire life. the boston red sox and the atlanta braves. both have had epic collapses in september. >> and this this week goes the other way. we have the leader of the braves playing the phillies, the best team in baseball, and the cardinals play the astros, the worst team in baseball. >> you can go aa up. >> yeah. >> you can look at that and say i can play on that team. >> ratner was saying that earlier. >> let's go to michael steele and talk politics for a second. >> yeah. >> boy, if you bet on intrade for rick perry a couple of weeks ago, you better be shorting it now because "new york times" is reporting his stock has even

dropped. >> is it over? >> do you agree with the fox news analysts that rick perry "threw up" all over himself into the base? >> and we've got to talk about the -- we haven't even brought up the fact that cain won the florida straw poll that rick perry was trying very hard to win. >> yeah. rick invested a lot in that straw poll. and the fact of the matter is, i think when you look at that debate, perry came off very stiff, very wooden, a little bit defensive in many spots. and it did not translate well. and the issue was huge for a lot of conservatives who were attending the event that weekend. other aspect that was fascinating that the rock that was michele bauchmann that was on top fast has fallen. >> can you believe how quickly she's collapsed? >> and the reality there is it's the hpv issue. a lot of conservatives thought

that she has, one put it to me over the weekend, made us look like no nothings. i think that did not translate well to a lot of folks. and herman cain has been consistent. he's been a consistent conservative on the economic issues, on foreign affairs issues. you can agree or disagree with him, but a lot of folks came out of that hall at the debate thinking, wow, at least i know where this guy stands. he's cutting through all of the platitudes and attitudes, he's telling us what he believes, what he's going to do. and it matters. >> let's look at the numbers quickly, mika, again, there's a couple of things to bring out of here. one is herman cain will never be elected -- or nominated or win a primary, but it was a big win for him. but also a couple other numbers.

michele bauchmann at 1.5%. that really effectively -- >> nail in the coffin. >> nail in the coffin. her candidacy is over. but if you look at rick santorum, i think you're seeing a guy who has had more of a presence in debates of late. and i suspect you're seeing a guy that is creeping into the top tier of iowa. >> yeah. >> i expect rick -- he won the pennsylvania -- i think he won the pennsylvania straw poll. >> a candidate with a slow build will be more of a problem for mitt romney than any of these flashes in the pan, which is what perry is turning out to be. just on his humiliating defeat in florida, the perry campaign is holding strong. one representative saying that the second place finish in florida and any connection it may have to the texas governor's debate performances are -- it comes down to this. we're not electing a debater in chief, we're electing a commander in chief.

>> i mean if -- >> they become commander in chief. you can't throw up all over yourself and become president. >> if you want to do that and become a morning talk show host, be my guest. i'm living proof. but you know, also, alex, did we get the bill crystal quote he had out? read the quote. >> he talks about perry's debate performance. he says no front-runner in a presidential field has ever, we imagine, had a weak showing as rick perry. it was as close to a disqualifying two hours to him. it's over he's basically saying. >> and things didn't get better in michigan. >> nope. mitt romney was the big winner there taking 50% of the vote, perry came in second, nearly 17%, followed by herr main cain with 8.5% support. >> why does this matter? you know, mr. chairman, why this matters. this terrible run in september

for rick perry. as this terrible launch has a direct impact on how much money he's going to raise and what he's going to report at the end of this quarter. and i've got to believe that's going to be really dented in by this horrific week or two that perry's had. >> oh, absolutely. you've already begun to hear some of the operatives and the donors say, well, let me take a look. and that's something, joe and mika, that i think a lot of republican establishment types have yet to understand about the dynamics of this race. and i've talked about it a number of times that the system is designed this year, especially, to allow for rick santorum or herman cain the opportunity to express themselves. an unsteady still searching kind of base that allows for this flexibility. so if you're romney or perry, you've got to be consistent,

you've got to be strong. and when you show what rick perry showed the other night in florida, of you got to be concerned if you're putting money on him right now. and a lot of donors will shift those dollars around just to hedge their bets. >> steve ratner was going to have a party at his house this weekend. >> yeah, for rick perry. look, when you cut through all of this, doesn't all this say that mitt romney is well ahead, he's in a commanding position, all of these guys are rumbling around. but at the end of the day or the moment as it looks, it's romney's to lose. don't you think so? >> yeah, i definitely think so. but i was looking around this weekend at some conservative sites to see what their take was, and over on the red state eric erickson said that romney's people believe it's romney versus the field. and eric erickson says he's right. but the gop base still wants the field, but it's split 50/50, and

we're still looking for that other person. >> yeah. and you've got the whole chris christie phenomenon, which symbolizes the fact that they're not happy with their field. a lot are desperate for chris christie to get in this race. >> he did an interview with diane sawyer. i don't know how you read around the words in that interview that says he's not ready. he's not capable at this time in his life to do it. >> and when you say you're not ready to do it, that is a disqualifier. it's not like three weeks from now, michael, that you can say, you know what? i am ready. >> no, absolutely. and i think the smartest thing for chris christie is to build his record as a governor for a state like new jersey that has had problems in the past to see how he can fix those problems that translates nationally. all this rush to christie or anyone else at this point is ludicrous. because the reality is you don't have the boots on the ground,

don't have the money. rick perry has shown us getting in with four or five months before the vote, you know, trying to catch up on cash, trying to catch up on organization, and trying to present a national message is problematic. so chris christie is going to be a good governor of new jersey and we'll see him in '16 if we don't win in '12. >> there's one candidate on the national stage that could step in at a late moment and be immediately plugged into a national organization. and his father would be very happy to see that. and you know who i'm talking about. >> don't go there. >> governor bush of florida. jeb bush could do it tomorrow or next month if he wanted to and have a national organization. but that's not happening. >> i don't think so. i don't think so. and i think part of this -- the white horse phenomenon. perry was the white horse two and a half weeks ago. >> to whom? >> oh, i think there was -- >> no, i know. i know. but i mean -- >> but in terms of -- for people who didn't know him.

>> okay. but in the terms of politics -- >> go ahead. >> for the last -- >> i wasn't joking. >> so far he's thrown up on himself and he's a horse. >> have you ever heard mr. ed talk, though? >> it's been a long time. it's been a long time. i'm a way too early guy, so i don't get to see mr. ed as much. for the last 62 years, the only time the republicans have nominated someone who is clearly not -- whose turn it was not -- that's very eloquently put at this hour, was barry goldwater. you know? it's richard nixon 17 times, it was -- even in 1976, when you had ronald reagan, the most formidable challenger you can imagine to the incumbent, reagan was an insurgent, we forget that now, the republicans went with the incumbent. >> republicans always make their

man lose first. they just always do. >> and a party that nominated senator dole, you know, is a party that gives it to the fella alternative. gerald ford, bob dole, ronald reagan, even george w. bush, it was not about george w. bush, it was about george h.w bush losing in '92. >> dan quayle could argue that was his time. that shows you. >> i think all that is completely right. but having said that, looking around the republican field, apart from romney, who is there that is a credible candidate that would have a chance of winning? >> that's what i'm saying. >> still have to ask that question. >> jon huntsman at 2%, and he's going to stay at 2%, but he could make a good run at a general election, but that's not going to happen.

>> on a superficial note, i was talking to republicans, and a lot of this has to do with -- >> where were you? >> it was a telephone call. >> i was going to say. >> but they said -- partly because of rick perry's performance that mitt romney "looks presidential." it sounds silly, but he looks like the adult on the stage. and they also said -- it wasn't just him saying this, they said perry was "palin-esque," that seemed to be word salad. >> if rick perry ends up with a debt, romney should retire it because if it weren't for perry's entry and romney was just thrashing michele bauchmann, we'd all be saying, he hasn't been tested. >> what you first said about perry it wasn't going to work out has all come to pass. >> it's what i said about palin in the fall. you talk about word salad, and

then bauchmann and gingrich and then perry. and there are a lot of people on the right that scream i know you're not -- >> you're saying -- you've seen this before. >> it also gives you -- >> rick perry's not electable. >> it gives you confidence in the process that they're rooting out these people who are out there in la la land. >> time and time again. and this is another point i have brought up that a lot of times in the national media, they will look at these fringe candidates and say, oh, look what this is saying about the republican party of today. and it happens every four years. and i will say, humbly, there are not enough people that are either republican as the mainstream media or talk to people on the telephone. the vanderbilt boys, exactly. who actually understand what the republican party is. and i will say it again. michael steele, i'll direct this

to you. the republican party is like my dad always was. he was a nixon guy. he was a ford guy. he was a, you know, he wasn't even a reagan guy in '76 as conservative as he was. he was a ford guy. i asked him, what's wrong with you, dad? you know, in 2008, he was a mccain guy, remember? do you remember what my dad said to me when mccain was at 2%, mika? and i was flying back from florida up here? he wasn't feeling well and what were his words to me? >> watch him, i forget. >> yeah. you're supposed to remember because i've told this story several times. you've go to be a better -- >> we rehearsed this. >> what my dad said is -- john mccain remembers. my dad says you watch mccain, he's coming back. >> watch mccain. >> guys like my dad never went for the bauchmanns, saw through the perries, they got the solid guys that could run this country

and they would hope they would be conservative enough. they kept it in the middle of the road. >> well, your dad got it exactly right. and that's the struggle going on right now in the party and still trying to settle on that identity for the next big thing. and so you're all over the map right now. and i think in the next few months, you're going to see that whittle down a little bit more. and we'll get back to your dad's perspective on these things, i think. >> we always do. and willie geist, i'm sorry you're talking to your friends this weekend. i was hoping -- >> i knew it was coming. >> i was hoping the commodores would come in undefeated. >> do not give vanderbilt two weeks to prepare. we hit the brick wall of reality that is the s.e.c. schedule on saturday. we might go to a bowl, we'll see. >> beat ole miss. >> all right. >> lsu, alabama, and i can say

this about the alabama team, their defense is -- >> oh, got a big one saturday in florida. >> their offensive coordinator, though. >> don't try to establish the run -- >> at some point, i would like to get to the current president who is also on the campaign trail. maybe later. >> is he catching football now? you know, he would be a much better offensive coordinator. if you had a first and one from the 1. >> it's like popping popcorn with the top up. coming up, melinda gates will be here onset. also muhammad yunus and scott walker. up next, the political playbook and the morning papers. but first, a check on the forecast. todd? good morning, guys. looking for a wet day, especially across chicago. the rain still with us after a very wet weekend across the

area. we'll see some of these showers through western portions of ohio getting over toward weekend. heavy at times, be careful commuting. much of the east coast, the mid-atlantic coast coming in quiet at the moment. you see some of those clouds, muggy and warm out there. d.c., much better chance for showers. philly, much better chances of showers tomorrow. also, much more "morning joe" coming your way next. [ male announcer ] this... is the montrose pet hospital -- montrose, california. ♪ in here, anarchy meets order. working with at&t, doctors set up a broadband solution to handle data and a mobility app to stay connected with their business. so they can run the office... even when they're not in the office. it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 23 past the hour. guys? yeah. >> well, we're talking about the -- we're talking about it right now. it's like this southern magazine that's involved in, and you're involved in. >> oh, we love julia.

julia's my daughter's godmother. >> she's feisty. >> she's a presbyterian. >> i love her. >> it's not to be taken lightly. let's be clear. >> right. we have got to -- we have got to have a show. >> gardening, magazine in charleston, great editor, but it was -- i did a piece for it, and i heard more about that than some books i've written. >> i'm telling you. >> "gardening gun." >> i'm telling you it's one of these subterranean deals that is spreading in north georgia. >> time now to take a look at the morning papers. king abdullah in saudi arabia granted the right to vote for women. it's the biggest change in the decade for women. sweeping the world along with

women's rights prompted the change. >> this is big. that's the country where women are not even allowed to drive. and now i'm going to let that one hang out on the air. several school districts being forced to rehire teachers who recently retired because of schools being unable to find qualified candidates. retirements in the private sector jumped 80% last spring compared to the year before. we're going to be talking to scott walker over thnext hour. we'll talk about the badgers. >> that's a look at the news. now time for politico. >> badgers are good this year. the chief white house correspondent for politico, mr. mike allen. hello, mike. >> good morning, and i'm wondering if gardening gun needs a beltway correspondent. >> there you go. >> no, no, mike allen is a gardening gun. >> he's a gardening gun guy. >> by the way, garden -- southern culture. >> they go together.

>> that's what mike would like. >> what do you mean when you say an evening with me and julie is not to be taken lightly. >> that's all i'm saying. >> exactly, exactly. >> i told you. i told you it was thrilling. i told you it was thrilling. >> you better pay it. >> i'm going to regret saying that. >> no. no. >> mike, let's talk business. >> like i said, where were we? smoking some cigarettes, watching wrestling, and that was one of them. >> you owe me $100. >> i'm red in the face. let's talk about chris christie, his name came up in the last segment. rumors still circulating he might -- >> oh, stop making it up. >> come on, guys. >> come on. hold on.

>> it's over! >> new york city mayor michael bloomberg said this on "meet the press." >> he's been a good governor in new jersey, shaking things up in a state that's had problems that's gone on and on and on. some things he does i agree with, some things i don't agree with. if he wants to run, he certainly should get in there and go do it. >> would he be a formidable candidate. >> yeah, i think he would be a credible, formidable candidate. >> why won't chris christie run? >> you really want to trump this up and knock it down? >> hey, look at this balloon, pop. >> forget it. >> it's not a rumor, it is true that those watching the debate the other night thought maybe there's time and these donors made another run at him. we're told the pressure from donors on chris christie is something that hasn't been seen in the republican party in 30 years.

and christie is keeping active. he's not saying this is not the case. he should be in california tomorrow at the reagan library on tuesday. mika and joe, of course are right that christie is very unlikely to do this. he's unlikely to take the bait on this. one, he feels he's not substantively prepared. he's leery of learning policy on the fly. second, right in front of him is the rick perry case. the dangers, the hurdles of getting in late. so whereas the perry example is a reason for him to get in for his donors, chris christie, we're told looks at it and says that's a reason not to. and third, it's a tough task. you can't count the delegates and see how he'll get more faster than mitt romney. >> i commend him for being one candidate that will say i may not be prepared. >> he was a prosecutor two years

ago, right? and i'm going to go there. i wish barack obama had been as self-aware in 2007, we would be in better shape right now. >> terrific. okay. >> so he's not going to run, right, mike allen? >> okay. so none of those three things apply to v.p. >> there you go. >> v.p. >> mitt romney's going to be meeting with guess who. it seems all the candidates have to meet with, the donald. not wasting any time getting a shot of the pair. watch this. >> mitt romney and donald trump are meeting today. well, they do have a lot in common. they've both done well for themselves. both support an economic plan that would help out the richest and the biggest corporations, but not the middle class that would slash social security and medicare as we know it, cut fund for health care, research, and development and schools. eliminate investments that will

create jobs and keep america competitive. and what do the american people have to say for those who will return to the same failed policies that created our challenges? >> you're fired. >> you're fired. >> you're fired. >> that's weak. come on. here's the shiny car. >> here's a picture of a plane. >> here are kids holding their head in their hands. >> what's the point of this, mike allen? >> come on. >> yeah, very high production values there. at 2:00 today, mitt romney's going to meet with donald trump at the donald's fifth avenue office. the dnc is trying to remind people that mitt romney isn't poor and trying to say that they have a life story in common. you can bet that mitt romney is going to be out there talking much about this. i got a call yesterday reminding me of this long scheduled

appointment. and it did not come from romney world. >> we love the donald. >> we do. >> the donald, there's only one of them. >> what do you think? what do you think? gardening guns, capital correspondent, can you tell julia? >> today? >> mike needs more work. that's what i've always said about mike allen. he's up 24 hours. mike allen, thanks for the look inside the playbook. >> not to be taken lightly. >> see ya, mike. up next on sports, michael vick concussion last week, broken hand yesterday in a tough loss to the giants, has tough words for the officials. plus the mojo football frenzy with our good friend on "morning joe." ♪

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oh, it's time for sports. willie, what's up, willie? >> let's talk weekend football action. the host of the soccer show, men in blazers.

you're a beautiful man wearing a beautiful tie. >> you're looking at the best. >> a tough one for the pack. looks like a tie out of "alice in wonderland." pats and bills, both defeated, patriots to a 21-0 lead, looks like a blowout, but ryan fitzpatrick leads them back, 11-yard touchdown right before the half. then the fourth quarter, bills crawl back to tie it at 24. and tom brady off a tipped ball, intercepted, returns 27 yards for the touchdown, 31-24, bills there, brady's fourth interception of the day, but the patriots came back. brady finds his man wes welker. but ryan, that is the game winner from 28 yards out. bills come back to beat the patriots 34-31, they stay

undefeated, brady finished with four touchdowns but had four interceptions, 387 yards. how about the buffalo bills? >> undefeated. undefeated. you've got them and detroit. >> detroit. >> oakland's playing well. >> detroit coming in just a second. eagles, giants, phillies, manning finds jacob eking out of the back field. third quarter now, giants up 14-13, michael vick hits jeremy macland for 24 yards, that's the good news, the bad news you'll see on the replay. vick takes a big hit and breaks his non-throwing hand, his right hand. vick finished the drive, a go ahead field goal, heft the game and came back in the fourth and left again. victor cruz, how about victor cruz? 29-16, snapping a six-game losing streak to the eagles after the game. >> there's a big one, wasn't it?

>> huge win for the giants. vick expresses frustration with the ref saying it was an uncalled late hit that broke his hand. >> that's a great play. i felt like i got hit late. there was no flag, broke my hand. >> do you feel you're not getting the calls that other quarterbacks get? >> absolutely. >> why? >> why? i mean -- you all see it. there's no reason for me to go into a big dissertation about why i'm not getting the calls. the refs, they've got to do their job, as well. every time i throw the ball, i'm on the ground. get hit in the head and, you know, i don't know why i don't get the flags like everybody else do. but hey, i'm not going to complain about it, i'm making everybody aware of it. >> listen, you know what? he doesn't complain about it, refs allow michael vick to get just pounded back there. and they don't throw the flag.

why? >> he did a good job biting his tongue right there. he wanted to say because i'm michael vick and people don't like me. he's getting hit after the whistle. >> i think the refs -- and also he can take it. >> watch out. >> it's unfair. >> they don't seem like a running back in a weird way because he's moving with the ball. >> they need to throw those flags more. >> you mentioned the detroit lions. >> detroit rock city! >> taking on minnesota. vikings up 13, with time running down, mcnabb, 8-yard touchdown. >> mika calls me up and goes, it's over, 20-0. >> matthew safford leads them back here, calvin johnson. >> johnson's great -- >> he's a phenomenal athlete. >> great receiver! >> crawl their way back to tie the game to 23. overtime, lions with the ball, safford with pressure. >> johnson again. this guy is amazing!

>> that leads to a game-winning field goal right here. jason hanson, 26-23, ly lions. the lions are tied at the packers for the division. packers beat the bears 27-17. good for detroit. >> it's great for detroit. detroit lions, detroit tigers. this is why kiss wrote the song "detroit rock city." this is what they predicted. last time the lions started 3-0, 1980. >> sure. >> who was the quarterback? >> the quarterback in 1980 was -- >> here's a hint, he watches the show every morning. >> gary danielson. >> gary danielson. >> he's lovely. >> beautiful guy. >> charming. >> the convention that year in detroit. >> in detroit. the big year. >> there could be a connection. >> there you go. getting spooky around here.

>> let's stop there. >> over the weekend -- >> so, you know, we can talk about arsenal coming back, talk about liverpool, but there's only one story, only one story, it's rocked the uk more than the punks burning cars a couple of weeks ago. >> well, that's absolutely true. they've been blistering. they have grabbed barnicle's affection by running the nfl against all comers. they went against the ufc, and it seemed rooney with the hamstring strain or broken hair transplant, depending on who you listen to, no problem. but then this man, peter krause 6'7", he's a 6'7" giant barely in control of his limb like a newborn. he shows his new team what they purchased and they fell in love. and united has than injury list

almost longer than their squad. they are ahead of manchester city. we learned this, joe, that they are mortal. >> they are mortal. and with rooney out, anything could happen. what is happening with arsenal? arsenal wins, right? >> arsenal won. something with global import. up there with save the whales, we're talking about torez, and the poor guy -- >> he's breaking down. >> i am a little worried for the man. >> he's the very pretty man. >> very pretty man. scored a great goal. >> you want his shoe laces? >> do you have a picture of torres. >> he did one of the filthiest tackles outside the incredible hulk. >> look how pretty he is. >> we're seeing ten minutes later, mika, don't look. >> i'm confused -- >> what was that?

>> he's channelling the incredible hulk. the mystery is over. we know for the next three games, he won't be playing badly, won't be playing at all. >> right now is there money on man city? >> they've got all the oil money anything can buy. congratulations to bob bradley, your guest here, formally of usa, he's been picked by egypt. i think they've got bradley cooper coming. >> i love it. >> thank you, roger. >> thank you, joe. >> it'll change your life.

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opinion pages. i've got a lot for you this morning. we're going to start with one by valerie jared. and they write this. government can make a difference through direct action and by working with outside organizations. a broad coalition of groups has joined the obama administration in addressing workplace flexibility for those in stem fields. as the president pursues that short-term recovery and long-term prosperity, he will continue to focus on empowering america's women and girls and giving every american a chance to contribute fully to our economy. the council on women and girls has done great, great work. all right, moving on. "washington post," this was interesting. i thought it was cool. class warfare, it is upon us. the notion that democrats have abandoned the working class, fueled anti-union pro-tea party sentiment. yet republicans have made it clear they would rather cut

benefits than raise taxes on the rich or increase spending to help our economy. initially, obama conceded to the right and cut taxes, now he says he wants to raise them. the president must show us not only he's willing to fight, but he's willing to fight for middle class americans. this may be his last chance to show voters what he's made of. and i guess my question for you, joe, is it too late? >> false choice. you know, op-eds like this drive me crazy. they always point at the other side. a conservative op-ed saying they want to raise taxes but don't want to go after entitlements. an op-ed like this will say they want to cut taxes but slash entitlements. again, we're still squared off in these ideological corners. both of which are detached from reality. the reality as we know what it is, you've got to expand the revenue base through tax reform, and you've got to slow down the rate of growth in entitlements.

and these people are still talking like it's 1994. on both sides. >> right. there's no question about that. no question about that, but it does highlight the fact that obama's in a little bit of a box between a progressive side of his party that says you've got to do this stuff and stand up for the working class, and the fact he's done a successful job of alienating the business community over the last few weeks. the antipathy has reached new heights. >> new heights. and michael steele, i think you would agree with me. we've got to expand the revenue base through tax reform, and we've got to slow down the rate of growth of entitlements, but you don't hear that from republican politicians and you don't hear it from democratic politicians. i'm not saying this person's crazy, but i'm so tire theed of the false choices. our side's right, all you have to do is raise taxes on the rich and everything's going to be okay. and the other side saying, our side's right, just cut spending and we'll be okay.

it's garbage, it's a lie. >> well, these false choices as we can see are draining and particularly draining to the american people. they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. and that's why someone like a chris christie who is a blunt speaker is appealing, that's why herr main cain was appealing to a lot of folks in that hall in florida because he was direct, he was concise, whether you agreed or disagreed, he was not afraid to put a view out there that touched on the two things you just mentioned. entitlement reform as well as tax reform. >> all right. let me just close with thomas friedman help wanted leadership. because it touches on exactly what we're all talking about here. we know what to do. a grand bargain. short-term stimulus to ease us through this deleveraging process, debt restructuring in the housing market and long-term budget cutting to put our fiscal house in order. none of this is easy, and the economy will not be fixed overnight. it will take years. but there is every chance it will get healed if our two parties construct the grand bargain we need.

but the more i read the papers and the more i'm convinced that we the people are having an economic crisis, and you, the politicians are having an election. and there is frighteningly little overlap between the two. >> well, john meacham, thomas friedman just wrote what i just said. of course, he talks pretty. >> oh, yeah. and he's thomas friedman. >> and he's thomas friedman. but we do know, intelligent americans do know what we've got to do. we've got to slow down the rapid growth of entitlement programs, tax reform that broadens the tax base, brings more money into the government. we've got to have short-term growth and long-term debt savings. the it's not hard. it's really not hard to figure this out. but there's not a single national leader that's saying this. >> and there's a reason because politically it doesn't work and that's just the way it is. if it worked, they would all be saying it. it doesn't. and that's why someone like

chris christie who could come in and be really blunt, i don't think would go very far. >> but in terms of solving our problems? >> i hope i'm wrong. >> i think if somebody would tell the truth, there would be followers. >> you may well be right, but at the moment, they're not only not saying it, they're not doing it. this super committee, i think everybody thinks the probability of anything good of coming from that has dropped. these people, ? you know i've found that anger is the enemy of instruction. you don't know the egos that i have to deal with. you're probably right. thank you! whoever you are. i'm pretty sure that was phil jackson. he's quite famous... million championships... triangle offense innovator... [ male announcer ] the audi a8. named best large luxury sedan. nice wheels zen master. thank you...todd. ♪

it's time, right?

>> news you can't use. snl returned. hosted by alec baldwin, and they opened the sketch about a the republican debate hosted by bill hader playing an odder version of jeff smith. >> a mere three weeks ago, you were the darling of the right wing of the republican party, but now after three debates, your inconsistent performances have given your supporters doubts. the question is, can you speak for ten seconds without alienating your base? >> now the conservative base needs to know that rick perry stands with them 110%. we need to lower the corporate tax rate, we need zero regulations, i believe all 10-year-old girls should be vaccinated for hpv so they can enter into a meaningful sexual relationship. i believe social security is a ponzi scheme, i believe we need to build a fence to keep the illegals out, however, should any illegals get through and have children here, i think we should open our hearts and pay for their education.

>> newt gingrich, calling your bluff. do you really want to be president? >> no. >> would you like to leave now and beat the rush out of the parking lot? >> thank you. >> michele bauchmann -- >> you know you want it. >> how do you read from your falling poll numbers? >> shepherd, i'm persistent. take, for instance, when i first met my husband. we were both at a party and i saw him across the room acting out all the parts from the musical "grease." i asked him out for a hot water and lemon. he said miss thang, here's a

quarter, buy yourself a clue, but i wouldn't give up. in closing, census, jesus, p papiloma, eyeballs. >> kristin whig doing michele bauchmann. >> good. >> great opening sketch. >> oh, gosh. >> go ahead. >> what's wrong? >> i don't want to trump it. >> still ahead, melinda gates and chuck todd ahead on morning joe. ♪ ♪ ♪ three, six, nine ♪ the goose drank wine ♪ the monkey chew tobacco on the streetcar line ♪ ♪ ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ pat it on your partner's hand ♪ ♪ right hand ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ cross it with your left arm ♪ pat your partner's left palm

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the future ref wards rewards those who press on with patience and firm determination, i'm going to press on for jobs. i'm going to press on for equality. i'm going to press on for the sake of our children. i'm going to press on for the sake of all those families who are struggling right now. i don't have time to feel sorry for myself. i don't have time to complain. i'm going to press on. i expect all of you to march with me and press on. take off your bedroom slippers, put on your marching shoes, shake it off, stop complaining, stop grumbling, stop crying. we are going to press on. we've got work to do. >> welcome back to "morning joe."

john meacham, steve rattner and michael steele are with us. >> michael steele, very exciting. we've got a guest here, special guest we're going to go to in a second. but i've got to get your input because i'm thinking of run day running for office. if i'm a politician and people are upset with me and they think i'm detached and i haven't done enough for them and i may have turned my back on them. is it a good idea or a bad idea to tell them to stop complaining? to sort of lecture them and tell them to stop complaining. >> now, stop it. >> i'm just asking -- >> that's not what he's doing -- >> this political thing, i may want to get into it. and i'm seeing the president to tell the caucus to stop whining and complaining. is this something you want to do or not? >> if you're barack obama, yeah, i thought it was rather amusing. we're going to press on. when you're looking at the unemployment rate and the issues

that have consistently trapped this community, the president delivered nothing. he went and gave a nice speech, he fired up everyone, press on, really? how about pressing to do something. to show your commitment and connection. and to go in there and tell them to stop whining and complaining to take your bedroom slippers off. to me it's just silly. >> well, john meacham, it was that line from lincoln -- >> the bedroom slippers has a long storied history. >> from periclese. take off your bedroom sandals. >> joining the table, we have republican senator from illinois, senator mark hurk, as well. i don't know if you're happy to be here this morning. >> he's used the slippers reference himself. >> are you wearing slippers? >> got the shoes on. >> all right. let's get serious here. some very bad news this morning out of afghanistan. >> that's right. i just finished another reserve assignment in afghanistan and

learned that the al qaeda, shadow of the former shadow is armed and dangerous. the taliban has had a horrible military year. but a new threat is the principal danger to americans in uniform. >> the "new york times" reported it on this past weekend and obviously this morning more bad news. >> the network is fostered by the government of afghanistan that receives about $1 billion in u.s. assistance. it hit our complex, headquarters, took out the guy leading the peace process in afghanistan. and this morning, may have been involved in the hit on cia headquarters in kabul. >> but also protected by the government of pakistan, right? isn't that more significant? >> trained and paid for by the isi in pakistan. which is why in these difficult budget times, we need to reduce military assistance to pakistan. i'm proud of our government right now. admiral mullen, ambassador in

islamabad. they've said pakistan is backing a major terrorist organization that's killed america. >> what would you do about it? >> we've got to cut off military aid to pakistan. and the senate appropriations committee on which i sit, we reduced it from the requested $3 billion to $1 billion and then we conditioned any counterterrorism assistance on cooperation against the haqqani network. i define that as a dramatic reduction in haqqani attacks on americans and afghans, and we should be cleared -- >> you see, rattner, we were criminal of republicans talking about cutting off aid to the palestinian authority because that would power hamas in the long run. but in this case, you've got to ask why does the united states of america keep paying billions of dollars to pakistan, a country that harbored in the --

across from the military academy, police academy, osama bin laden. a country that continues, an isi that continues to prop up our enemies? would you agree, mark kirk, that it makes sense for us to start drawing back our support for pakistan's military? >> i understand that. and i think he's probably right. but the other side of the coin, of course, is pakistan is where a lot of our enemies reside, and we -- at least up until recently thought we had some cooperation with them in finding them and there are 170 million people there and potentially nuclear weapons. you've got to be ginger about it -- >> it's not simple. >> and we've got multiple interests there. they have a nuclear arsenal. but long-term, we are leaving afghanistan. and the question is, do we allow it to become terror incorporated again? laying the foundation for a second 9/11? and i say no. the bigger idea that i think the

president should explore is that tilt to india. india which funds the afghan governments, india has a strong interest in afghanistan that is not a terror base. i wish that a peaceful afghanistan could be created out of pakistan, but it appears the pakistani government has committed itself to terror. >> john meacham, this is what the pakistanis have done. >> i'll be the first to say and i said it after 9/11, we have not always been good friends with the pakistanis. we have made deals with them for aircraft that we reneged upon. we basically gave them the stiff arm for 10, 15 years in favor of india. we tried to change that. after 9/11. we'd given them billions of dollars and this point after a decade, i think at this point, it's time to go back to india and say, we tried, go ahead. >> we tried. and one curiosity here, particularly after the death of richard holbrook is what is the nature of our personal diplomatic relations in both

pakistan and india? what's your sense of who we can really talk to? >> i think there's a poetic and cultural reliance between the two biggest democracies on earth. the united states and india. and pakistan, the relations broke down to such a degree that there was the mullen/kilani alliance, where their chief of staff, but that really collapsed after the bin laden hit. and now that mullen is accusing kilani of supporting the group, i think the relations are hitting a low point. but for all the right reasons. the pakistanis have committed themselves to terror. they backed the organizations that did the mumbai attack on india, and they're backing the organization that in all likelihood the attack this morning in afghanistan. >> how long do we spend in afghanistan? we're spending $2 billion a week. americans are ready to come home. >> right.

i think the president's plan is responsible. you bring 10,000 troops out by christmas, bring another 23,000 out by the end of the afghan fighting season. so they come out in october and november, and then lay the ground work for a reduced presence by 2014. when the afghan military reaches the size of about 350,000 troops, which is about the size you need to sustain a government that will not lose against the taliban or haqqani. >> we've got chuck todd with us. let's bring chuck in. a brutal week for rick perry, whether you want to talk about the florida straw poll or saturd"saturday night live." are the reviews coming in from conservatives across the country? it's hard to remember a candidate whose fortunes have fallen so precipitously in a few days. >> this has been the nature of this race, hasn't it? as republicans search for their

anti-romney, somebody rises up and is quickly basically lax about a month and somehow gets caught up. the person who took their benefits is mitt romney. but the one thing, the perry campaign that makes perry different than michele bauchmann, is perry's got a big infrastructure, number one, and number two, he's been through tough campaigns in the past. he's been -- he's stared into the abyss of losing back in 2006 with some really bad poll numbers. and they're counting on a couple of things. number one, the perry campaign notes they didn't lose to mitt romney in florida. and in fact, if that had been the case this morning, they'd feel like they were even in that whole lot more trouble than they feel this morning, one, and two, as they are able to start laying this campaign against romney, they believe they'll get these

herman cain conservatives back. >> i understand they did beat mitt romney by about three votes. at the same time, perry went all in in florida. >> he did. >> mitt romney did not. he went all in on the straw poll and came up short. as the presumptive front runner. >> it's also a reminder that they're still building an organization. they don't have it yet. it's about six weeks old. and straw polls are not easy things to just swoop in and somehow win. but i think they have to feel really concerned about the fact that he has a poor debate performance hurt, but what seemed to hurt perry was his immigration stance among the rank and file conservatives that voted in this. so you put the two together, and it gave them extra pause. it was sort of like not only can he not lay a decent hit on romney, but he's also going off the reservation on an issue that matters to me. i mean that's what the florida conservative voter was thinking.

if i were chris christie, that would give me more pause than anything else in this. which is, right now the tea party and conservatives, they only see what they want to see in chris christie. what happens when he gets in? if he did get in, now he's saying no, again, of course, this morning. if he did get in and suddenly you're finding out, oh, he goes against the conservative grain on issue x, y, z, how is that going to go over? >> all right, chuck. and obviously the republicans have obama's record to play against whoever turns out to be the candidate. there's some gallup polls out. asking them to compare president obama to his predecessor george w. bush, showing 22% believe they're about to say. 43% say president obama has been a better president. but on the sunday talk shows, he

was taking a shot at his democratic counterpart. over president obama's record. take a listen to this. >> now 2 1/2 years later, we have turned the corner -- we're no longer dropping like a rock. now we are moving forward. we've had 18 straight months of job growth, added 2.4 million jobs to the private sector month after month, passed the american recovery act, saved the american auto industry. >> it sounds like the new slogan is no longer hope and change, it's, hey, it could have been worse. great bumper sticker, debbie, i hope it works for you. >> oh, my gosh. >> pretty effective midwest accent. obviously, you're in the midwest. there are a lot of people in the midwest concerned with what's going on, senator. but they're not going to turn to rick perry or michele bauchmann or some of these other republican candidates.

>> my message to my fellow republicans looking at the next nominee is you've got to do well in the upper midwest. there are key states. illinois where i come from is not a swing state. but you look at winnable states like wisconsin, indiana, michigan, and especially ohio and pennsylvania. and you need a candidate -- >> rick perry's not going to win, though. >> you're going to need a candidate that's going to rock the suburbs in the industrial west. and that's a key value. >> you got one? >> yeah. >> i actually think romney is the de facto real front runner here. and we could have a late entry. there's a tremendous amount of chris christ christie-mentum if he gets in. i think people are looking at who is the anti-romney. what you described is happening. we go from trump to bauchman to perry. and this is really just a gauntlet that romney is running through before picking up the

national -- >> and just sort of to reflect the lack of enthusiasm of romney that everybody's looking for something else. >> remember that four years ago, mccain right now was at 8 because it was anybody but mccain and then he made it. >> michael steele -- >> yeah. >> chime in. >> just a real quick question, i guess i want to ask the senator, but ask more broadly, as well. so given everything that chuck has said and the senator's just said, which is most poisonous to the base? romney's position on health care or perry position on immigration? because that's what this boils down to. they have something -- which one are they willing to swallow the quickest? >> chuck todd, i would say perry is still embracing his immigration stance. mitt romney has been working to move away from his health care stand. is that one reason it's not sticking to romney as much? >> well, if you talk to perry

world, they would say that romney hasn't had to defend it yet. we haven't seen -- >> he's in -- >> i get that, but joe -- >> he's in as many debates as rick perry. >> and it hasn't happened. >> hi knoi know, but that's the he's trying to make, he hasn't had that moment yet where it's him undersiege. where the entire everybody else on the stage decides, oh, man, i'm going to pile on mitt romney now over health care. it hasn't happened yet. and so the perry argument is this, i'm just telling you the perry argument. once we start seeing 30-second ads popping up in iowa, popping up in new hampshire, popping up in ha. and then we'll find out if he can withstand this and which is worse. >> that's the argument. so, chuck, let me ask you what your take is on fox?

on sunday an extraordinarily respected conservative within ranks at fox news saying that rick perry threw up on himself. bill kristol saying it's the worst performance they could remember. how does rick perry survive that? it's not coming from msnbc. >> no, that's what he's got to fix. number one, they don't know him, and over time when they get to know him, maybe they'll warm up to him a little bit. but they know they have to simply perform better in the next round of debates. there are two, at least it looks like on the schedule for october. and he has got to -- he has got to not throw up all over himself. and then you're going to -- and this is the dangerous part for mitt romney. okay. we were in this space with

hillary clinton and barack obama where everybody was like, boy, obama didn't bring anything to these debates, hillary clinton stands there, takes the heat from edwards, chris dodd, and bill richardson, and he sits there, and all of a sudden she has one bad performance. that's the concern if you're romney world, right? he only has to slip up once and he's in trouble. the irony is, had what he did -- had he thrown up all over himself, he would have been chased out of the race this week. >> machines don't throw up on themselves. what a low barb, by the way. >> you're right. >> so what do i need to do tonight? don't throw up all over yourself. >> don't throw up over yourself. >> this is breakfast conversation. >> senator, is there a better way to characterize perry's debate performance besides throwing up on himself? >> i think he hurt himself tremendously. this is the a-game, and he didn't bring his a-game here. and this is not a marathon, this

is the iron man of politics. steady performance is rewarded, especially in the republican primaries. we didn't see it so far. >> let me ask you speaking of a-game, are the cubs going to be back next year? and detroit is whipping up on chicago in football and baseball. >> every professional team can have a bad century. >> oh, wow. senator mark kirk, thank you. we'll see you at 9:00 for the daily rundown. coming up, arne duncan will join us onset, and also scott walker. and standing by in the green room, melinda gates is here. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] you can never have too much expertise.

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my experience in an urban school environment. what troubles me the most, are the social issues that the students have to undergo. i think that within the building, money's not the answer, but i think socially they need more individuals. i'm one person with maybe 180 kids that i would love to connect with each and every one, and i can't. and they need someone to go to when they have been put out of the house. >> welcome back to "morning joe." if you come to 30 rock, you can get the nbc experience. but this week, it's the education nation experience here at nbc and msnbc. and joining us now on the set, co-founder and co-chair of the bill and melinda gates foundation, melinda gates, good to have you on the show this morning. you are going around the country and finding out exactly what they need. because every school is specific

and every community is specific, and their needs change. what have you found? >> we found that the single most important thing that makes a difference in terms of whether a student is going to be prepared to go on for college and work is is an effective teacher in the classroom. and we have the job of getting a great teacher in every single classroom. and if we don't do that, we're not doing ourselves a favor. >> willie geist -- >> no, one of the things, when you get somebody, a notable face to do this and they have dropped out of school in second grade, it narrows it. >> well, that. >> you did this, right? >> yeah, i did it. a bunch of people did it. cycled through. i chose my 7th grade music teacher, i didn't turn out to be a great musician, but he taught us about life. >> about life. >> he did, actually. >> it goes back to teachers. we've had so many people pushing

on education reform for so long. and as you were saying to john meacham, it's always two steps forward, one step back, but about a year and a half ago, started hearing about teachers, teachers, teachers. what led you to that conclusion after all you've done? >> well, first of all, one of the things we're trying to do with the teacher wall and a large piece of research we did with scholastic is to bring teachers into the conversation. you can't talk about changing a system without the teachers being a part of it. so we went out and did research with scholastic to get their views. and teachers really are saying, you know, they want some different things in the school than they have today. and all -- everything that the foundation's trying to do is say, how do we put a great teacher in every classroom? because if you do that, a great teacher makes 14 times the difference in terms of whether that student will be prepared at the end of the year or not, which is much different than the class size. kids can advance no matter what

income they come from and they can get ready for college. >> and the gates foundation invested in reducing class sizes. you tried that. over some time. but at the end of the day, what did you find? >> well, we didn't invest in smaller class sizes, we invested in small school environments. and what we learned from that was in the end it mattered who was teaching the kids. and what you saw was if you had an effective teacher, kids learned all the material. and a lot of them are low-income and minority kids with an ineffective teacher, they only learned a third of the material. and it's why they keep falling behind year after year after year. and we can't have that happen. they have to be prepared for it. and we know they need college because if you don't get something beyond a high school diploma, you're not going to get a great job in this economy. we know that the eighth graders today, 63% of them by the time they graduate if they want to get a great job in the economy need to have something beyond high school education.

>> given everything you've said and the work you've done and the study you've done, how concerned are you when you listen to the conversation in washington which is cut, cut, cut. we've got to cut our deficit, which means cutting into education, losing some of these teachers we're talking about. how do we grow right now from an education point of view and we're cutting from financial point of view? >> well, and i think in the real cuts of course, coming at the state level. we spend about somewhere between $500 billion and $600 billion a year on educating our students. we need to use the dollars effectively. i'm concerned about the cuts. but at the same time, when you're cutting, you all start to look at what works and what doesn't work, right? so we're starting to see innovative things happen where people are actually using technology in the classroom. that can actually bring down the cost if you use it as a tool and in the right way. and you're really still teaching the kids the knowledge they need to move forward. >> john meacham, what have you

learned about teacher recruitment in making it both attractive for someone to really to sacrifice so much? in the college of competitiveness, national security, and justice. but it's still a very, very difficult job. >> it's a very difficult job, and that's what we're hearing through education nation talking to teachers. but the thing we learned through this scholastic research, when you talk to teachers about salary. it's on the list, but much further down on the list than you think it might be. they care a lot about professional development. they go into it because they have a passion for it. so they want to know they have a fair system that's rating them and objective and giving them coaching and mentoring and help along the way. they don't want to be evaluated just by that test at the end of the year. they have to have peer observations and principal observations, and they're very, very happy if you do that. we're not having trouble getting

somebody into the art or the profession. >> there's a reflective debate that gets reduced to teachers unions versus reformers. what's your view of the role? >> well, when you look across the nation, we're having the same issues whether it's a right to work state or a union state. so we have to realize that we are not preparing kids for college. that the end of the line. if you're only preparing a third of your kids to go on to college, something's wrong with the system. so it's really not about the union rules or the right to work states, it's about saying why aren't we giving the teachers the feedback they need to do better in their jobs? and right now, we go out and do do principal observations. we don't even ask the students. turns out the students know if they have a great teacher. and we can't turn this into a popularity contest. but if you ask the student very specific questions, it's actually predictive of whether they're going to do well at the

end of the year on that state test or not. so they know if they have a great teacher. >> let me ask you, how do we get the best teachers? i mean, specifically. you all could go down much -- you all have given $100 million to hillsboro, los angeles, $60 million. how do you use all of the energy and the remarkable, extraordinary foundation that you all have set up on education? how do you convert all of these resources? and all of your sweat and all of your labor into getting great teachers? into let's say the 30 or 40 most at-risk school districts in america? >> well, what we're trying to do, you have to look at philanthropic dollars as the catalytic wedge. and we can do the research that hasn't been done, research to find out really what is an effective teacher. we feel like as parents we have

a sense of who they are as a group, but you really don't know until the end of the year. you don't know. we have to do the research to find out what makes an effective teacher and how do you coach a teacher to be better. we have to do the research, what do teachers think about what's going on? and we decided we would have several districts, very representative of the nation to try and do collaborative work in those schools to change the personnel system to say how do we reward and evaluate teachers in a way that is very fair and very transparent. so at the end of the day, we can keech the best tea keep the best teachers in the system. >> thank you very much, melinda gates. >> running the best foundation when it comes to education. why would she make such a colossal blunder last week? she's got a twitter account. do you just like abuse?

why, why? >> i get to talk to teachers on twitter. >> that helps. >> i don't think that people on twitter who talk to you, joe, are talking to melinda gates. let's find more ways to collaborate. >> your twitter account is @melindagates. thank you so much for being here. >> up next, governor scott walker is here. more "morning joe" when we come back. [ male announcer ] school art supplies, black pants,

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♪ >> at the bottom of your screen, that's where rogers goes for the third time in this game. >> the third time? oh, i see that, joining us now is the republican governor of wisconsin, governor scott walker. >> look at this. >> how are you? >> willie geist, he's got the trifecta right here. this is what we have with our director. our director shows you going like this, but -- >> way to go, t.j. >> governor walker, what are we looking at here? >> we've got the packers won badgers won, and the brewers back for the first time in 29

years, they're the division champs. >> willie geist -- >> i'm most upset about the badgers. my sister went to madison. >> unbelievable. who would've thought years ago russell wilson would come to wisconsin because they play the proset. we used to play big 10 football. a quarterback that could be in the pros, as well. >> plus you have your own football star. >> i've got two boys. in fact, friday night, i would have been at the game, but matt's the captain and alex is a junior on the team. friday night i was at parent night watching the football game. >> what position do they play? >> a free safety and then my younger son plays a little bit of running back and full anchor. >> you want to be grounded, have your kids play football. that'll keep you grounded. >> and tired. >> i said i've never seen more kids eat more food than i've seen at those. >> yeah.

>> i think about 1,000 of those mozzarella sticks. >> how is it going? have you evolved enough? >> yeah. spoken like a true northeast liberal. >> i want to hear -- >> when joe tried to protect me and i answered your question. i said i've gotten so many compliments since then. and moving forward, the it's great with this session. today, later with brian williams and the folks looking at education nation. it's a great way to talk about what we're doing in wisconsin. collaborating now, working with our superintendent of public instruction. historically, a little bit more in line with the teachers union and more democrat than republican, obviously i'm a republican. but we've been working together the last few months on education reform. >> it was a rough start, obviously, on a lot of levels. we read this morning out of the madison state journal that several school districts are being forced to rehire teachers recently retired because they're unable to find qualified candidates. also, retirements in the public

sector jumped 80% compared to the year before. >> i think a lot of concern as to what's going to happen next. some misinformation. people thought their retirement would be taken away. the only changes we made was asking all public employees including teachers to pay a little bit more for pension and health care just like i did, as well. but in the end, the result's overwhelming. my two kids good example. we saw none of the schools the same, but in many cases, there's more courses, added additional teachers. the best example is an university down from green bay where they took a $400,000 deficit and turned it into $1.5 million surplus. they used the savings and the tools, and they turned that into more teachers they hired, lower class size, and about $200,000 for merit pay. it's not just about the budget you can hire and fire based on merit, but pay on performance. >> your critics say you're an

enemy of education. saying your budget cuts over $1 million from education. >> 40 states across the country have budget deficit, nearly every one of them cut back in education. our budget, our state was unique in that we made those cuts, as well, but we gave our schools and local governance the tools to more than offset them. i'll give you a good example. by opening up the marketplace for health insurance, we have districts that saved anywhere from $600,000 to health care savings to one district appleton that saved $3.1 million, not by taking away benefits, but rather by changing their carrier, or in their case, they got a better deal out of the previous carrier. that made a huge difference and that would not have happened without the collective bargaining changes. >> any regrets or lessons learned out of the opening? >> well, clearly, and this is part of what we had talked about before -- if i had it in retro spect, i could do everything over again, i would spend more

time making the case in january and february and probably set money outside of government to make the case early on. i had $4 million or $5 million, i should say, dumped on me in february and march on ads that tried to redefine what we were doing. in the end, people saw not only in our schools, our cities, our counties, the savings far outweighed the reductions in the state budget. and in the end now, we can put the best and brightest in our classrooms across the state of wisconsin. >> you had the recall election, which ended up be a wash. recall election, so many protests for so long, wisconsin was a flash point. how were your relationships with the individual senators that fled this state. the unions -- you're working with the teachers union now. does last year seem like a distant memory to both sides? >> well, i think in some ways. there's still some in the

legislature, particularly the people in the recall elections. i was just talking with the democratic leader in the assembly the other day, we're talking about ways to work together. we're going to hone in on a jobs agenda this fall where we not only bring up republican bills but democrat-led bills, as well. i think the more we do that, we've been leading the way, again, going back to education. we brought together a very collaborative group. about 30 experts on education. i think that helps because we've showed, you don't have to fight about it, have a meaningful discussion. but in the end, when it comes to education and the largest context when it comes to jobs, we've got to work together. >> you meet with them, work through it? >> well -- >> have you since then? >> yeah. i've had the democrat leaders over for lunch. >> oh, my goodness! >> and it was a good lunch. >> they came back in the state? >> yeah, they're back in. in the end, these are the --

we've got the same neighbors, democrat and republican alike and our neighbors out of work where we can show them we're working together to get back to work. >> let's pause for a second and let mika go ahead just throw your condescending northeast liberal statement about him growing on the table and then we'll move -- >> would you like to have lunch? >> sounds great. >> there you go. and again, are these our hats by the way? >> no, these are mine. my kids would be upset. >> i thought you came bearing gifts! >> no. >> thank you very much. >> governor scott walker, thank you very much. >> congratulations. up next, he won the nobel peace prize for creating the micro loan. he's here to explain why despite the economy he's still banking on america. "morning joe" will be right back. [ carrie ] i remember my very first year as a teacher,

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welcome back to "morning joe." 48 past the hour. in 2006, economist muhammad yunus and the bank he founded were awarded the nobel peace prize in their work of lifting millions of people out of poverty through the strategy of micro lending. and today you open your sixth

u.s. location in the south bronx. congratulations. >> thank you. >> thank you for being on the show this morning. >> can you just for americans that are watching that aren't familiar in micro loans. could you explain the concept briefly to them? >> everybody knows because they know that many people can't go to the bank to take a loan, they have to go to loan sharks, organizations, individuals who can lend you money or go to payday loans, pay enormous amount of money. so we lend money to the poor people who are not included in the financial system. lend them money so they can earn and pay back and it started in bangladesh in 1976 and it spread all over the world. and now it's been working since 2008 in new york city. >> and you target specific communities. and you opened a new branch today. tell us about it. >> yes, today we'll be opening a

branch in bronx. we already have two more branchs in manhattan and brooklyn. >> and we were introducing you doing a promotion of you being on the show earlier. and we talked about how you've been saying you're saying you're still banking on america, still have hope for our financial future. is that true and if so, why? >> because look at this time, unemployment is so high right now. people have the ca passty, ability. simply, they don't have the job slots within. they can create their own jobs, self-employment. if the financial system will open the door to lend the money like the way they lend the money to the corporations but they don't loan money to individuals who lost a job. many people now are coming within grameen america, the program we own and recently lost jobs and coming to us, i know everything, simply, i need any

money to get ahead. the woman who does home cleaning in a company, she lost a job, comes here, says, i can do the housecleani housecleaning. if you give me the money, i can buy the machine and go into the job. >> like reallily say, the only people getting loans are people who don't need loans. >> it's so critical. we got that poverty report weeks ago, staggering, 1 in 6 americans living in poverty. the line is staggering in its own right, $22,000 a year for a family of four. many people even living in that 22,000 to say $50,000 are still struggling obviously. what can we do to reverse that? >> if you look at the report for 6 million people under poverty line. 60 million people underbanked. they have never been able to do any kind of banking. >> 60 million? >> 60 million in the united states. a gaping hole.

when we have problem with the banking system and getting their act together, the programs are working well. they have no problems with repayment. since 2008 generally when we started here, our repayment rate has remained 99% and over. no collateral, no guarantee from anybody, personal, i come, this is what i do. it's trust-based lending. it works. we have over 6,000 borrowers in new york city and if you include nebraska and indianapolis, we have over 7,000 borrowers right now and invited to do it in detroit and san francisco and other places. where we're invited and people provide the funding, we go ahead and do it. we never hesitate is there work in this city, a good place, we don't. we know people need the money and can create their own income. in a situation of frustration,

you don't have a job, you don't know what to do. it's not only that you don't have the income, also the psychological burden on yourself and your family is tremendous. for the nation and for the economy, wasted energy and creativity. each one of them has a tremendous amount of drecreativ and skill. >> what are your sources of capital and how can people help? >> definitely. this is our problem. we are not a bank so we cannot take deposits and lend money. the best solution is if you have a banking license and take deposits from anybody who wants to give the deposit and take money and lend money. now, we need money from outside. any city, location we go, we ask for $6 million over four years, so that we can build it up over the size where it's self-sustaining. the beauty of this, it is a self-sustaining program. not charity based, once you get it started, it keeps running and earns its own money and covers

all its costs and people get the benefit of creating their own job and be happy with that. >> nobel peace prize winner, muhammad yunus. >> thank you very much. still ahead, education secretary. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. [ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item.

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perry really did throw up all over himself in the debate at a time he needed to raise his game. he did worse, it seems to me, than he had done in previous debates. romney is strong as he has been lately. he clearly raised his game in reaction to emergence of perry. perry is one-half a step a way from almost total collapse as a candidate. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe," as you take a live look at new york city. back on set is jon meacham? >> pulitzer prize winner.

>> and steve rattner and michael steele. >> all around great guy. let's go to michael steele and talk politics. if you bet on in trade on rick perry a couple of weeks ago, you better be shorting it now. "new york times" is reporting his stock has even dropped on in trade. >> is it over? >> do you agree with the fox news analysts, brit hume, that rick perry quote threw up all over himself in the debate. we haven't even brought up the fact that cain won the florida straw poll rick perry was trying very hard to win. >> yeah. rick invested a lot in that straw poll. the fact of the matter is, i think brit hit it about right. you look at that debate, perry came off very stiff, very wooden, a little bit defensive in many spots. it did not translate well. the immigration issue was huge for a lot of conservatives attending the cpac event that

weekend. the other aspect of this that was fascinating was the rock that is now michele bachmann and how fast that has fallen. >> boy, can you believe how quickly she has collapsed? >> the reality there is it's the hpv issue. a lot of conservatives thought, as one put it to me over the weekend, made us look like know nothings. i think that did not translate well with a lot of folks. her man cain has been consistent. this is something that's going to be very important in this race. he's been a consistent conservative on the economic issues, on foreign affairs issues. you can agree or disagree with him. a lot of folks came out of that hall at the debate thinking, wow, at least i know where this guy stands, he's cutting through the platitudes and attitudes and telling us what he will do and it mattered and it registered with 37% of the vote saturday. >> let's look at numbers, mika.

there are a couple things to bring out of here. one is that her man cain will never be elected. >> or nominated. >> or, three, will win a primary. but it was a very big win for him. also, a couple other numbers. michele bachmann, at 1.5%, that really effectively -- >> nail in the coffin. >> nail in the coffin. her candidacy is over. i think most people around here know it. if you look at rick santorum at 10.9%, i think you're seeing a guy who has had more of a presence in debates of late. i suspect you're seeing a guy that is creeping into the top tier of iowa. i expect rick --he won in pennsylvania straw poll. >> certainly a candidate that has a slow build will be more of a problem for mitt romney than any of these flashes in the pan, which is what perry is turning out to be, just on his humiliating defeat in florida,

the perry campaign is holding strong, one representative saying the second place finish in florida and any connection it may have to the texas governor's debate performances are quote, we're not electing a debater in chief, we're electing a commander in chief. >> they're saying on fox news says he's throwing up all over himself. >> you can't throw up all over yourself and become president. >> if you want to do that and be a morning talk show host, here i am. i am living proof. there is also -- alex, did we get the bill crystal quote he had up? >> he talks about perry's debate performance. he says, no front-runner in a presidential field has ever, we imagine, had a weak showing as rick perry. it was close to a disqualifying two hours for him. it's over, he's basically saying. >> things didn't get better in michigan, did they? >> this weekend's michigan straw

poll, mitt romney taking 50% of the vote and perry second with 17% and followed by her man cain with 8.5% support. >> why does this matter, mr. chairman? you know why this matters. this terrible run in september for rick perry, this terrible launch has a direct impact how much money he's going to raise and what he's going to report at the end of this quarter. i have to believe that's going to be really dented in by this horrific week or two perry's had. >> absolutely. you've already begun to hear some operatives and donors saying, well, let me take another look. that's something, joe and mika, i think a lot of republican establishment types have yet to understand about the dynamics of this race i talked about a number of times, this system is designed to allow for rick santorum or her man cain to have that opportunity to express

themselves without necessarily the big bank accounts. so you're seeing the resonance out there, with an unsteady still searching base that allows for this flexibility. if you're romney or perry, you have to be consistent, you have to be strong. when you show what rick perishoed the other night in florida, you have to be concerned if you're putting money on him right now. a lot of donors will shift those dollars around to hedge their bets. >> steve will have a party for him this weekend, i'm sure. >> i'm a big rick perry fan, just like you, joe. >> when you cut through all this, doesn't this say mitt romney is well ahead, in a commanding position and all these guys are rumbling around and at the end of the day, it's romney's to lose, don't you think so? >> i definitely think so. i was looking around at

conservative sites and on the red state, eric erickson says romney's people believe it's romney versus the field. eric erickson says, he's right but the gop base still wants the field. it's split 50-50 and still looking for that other person. >> and you have the chris christie phenomenon symbolizes the fact they're not happy with their field. a lot of friends on wall street desperate for chris christie to get in this race but won't happen. >> didn't interview with diane sawyer -- in the interview with diane sawyer, i don't know how you read around it where he says he's not ready and not capable at this time in your life to do it. >> when you say you're not ready, that is a disqualifier, not like three weeks from now, you say, i am ready. >> absolutely. the smartest thing for chris

christie is to build his record as governor of state like new jersey that has had intractable problems in the past to fix those problems translates nationally. all this rush to christie or any else is ludicrous. reality, you don't have boots on the ground or money. rick perry has shown us getting in four or five months before the vote, trying to catch up on cash, trying to catch up on organization and trying to present a national message is problematic. chris christie will be a good governor of new jersey and see him probably in '16 if we don't win in '12. >> one candidate on the national stage could step in, in a moment and immediately plugged into a national organization and his father would be very happy to see that. >> don't you go there. >> his father would be. governor bush of florida. >> jeb bush could do it tomorrow or even do it next month if he wanted to and have a national organization but that's not happening?

>> i don't think so. i don't think so. i think part of the white horse phenomenon. perry was the white horse 2 1/2 weeks ago. >> to whom? >> i think there was -- >> i know. >> in terms of the people who didn't know him -- >> well -- >> okay. in terms of politics and -- >> he speaks about as well in a debate as a white horse, but go ahead. what? i wasn't joking. >> so far, he's thrown up on himself and now he's a horse. >> have you ever heard mr. ed talk, though? >> it's been a long time. i'm a way too early guy. i don't see mr. ed as much. for the last 62 years, the only time republicans have nominated someone whose clearly turn it was not, very eloquently put at this hour was barry goldwater. it's richard nixon, 17 times.

it was even in 1976, when you had ronald reagan, the most formidable challenger you can imagine to an incumbent, reagan was an insurgent, republicans went with the incumbent. >> they always make their man lose first. >> a party that nominated senator dole is a party that gives it to the fellow whose turn it is. >> geraldford, bob dole, john mccain, george h.w. bush, ronald reagan. even george h.w. bush was not about george w. bush, about george h.w. bush losing in '92. >> dan quayle could argue that was his time. >> you look at the republican field, apart from romney who could you put forward as a

credible candidate with a chance of winning. >> that's what i'm saying. they don't exist. >> jon huntsman at 2% and he will stay at 2%. but the former chinese ambassador could make a very good run in a general election but that won't happen. >> on a purely superficial note i was talking to some republicans this past weekend and talking about perry's performance. >> where were you? >> a telephone call. >> i was going to say. holy cow. >> partly because of rick perry's performance mitt romney quote looks presidential. it sounds silly but matters to people. he stands up there and he looks like the adult on the stage. they also said -- it wasn't just gail collins saying this. perry was quote palinesque meaning some of his answers appeared to be word salad. >> if rick perry ends up with a debt, romney should retire it. if it weren't for perry's entry,

and romney was just thrashing michele bachmann, we would all be saying he hasn't been tested. >> what you said about perry, when you first looked at him and said it wouldn't work out, has all come to pass. >> that's what i said about palin in the fall. you talk about word salad and bachmann and gingrich. then perry. there are a lot of people on the right scream rhino -- you know who's electable and not electable. rick perry is not electable in the general election. >> it gives you confidence in the process they win noed out people clearly in la-la land. >> time and time again. there is another point i brought up, a lot of time in the national media they look at fringe candidates and say, look what this is saying about the republicans party of today. it happens every four years. i will say humbly, there are not enough people either republican

in the mainstream media or talk to people on the telephone in mainstream media, the vanderbilt voice, exactly, who actually understand what the republican party is. i will say it again. michael steele, i'll direct this to you. the republican party is like my dad always was. he was a nixon guy. he was a ford guy, he was a -- you know, he wasn't even a reagan guy in '76, as conservative as he was. he was a ford guy. i asked, what's wrong with you, dad? in 2008, he was an mccain guy. remember? do you remember what my dad said to me when mccain was at 2%, mika? i was flying back from florida up here, he wasn't feeling well and what were his words to me? >> watch him. i forget. >> you were supposed to remember because i've told this story. you've got to be a better straight man than that. >> watch him! >> what my dad said, you watch

him. john mccain remember, my dad said, watch mccain, he's coming back. guys like mccain never went through the back -- guys like my dad never went with bachmanns, went with mccain and conservatives and kept it in the middle of the road. >> your dad got it exactly gh that's the struggleoing on right now in the party, still trying to settle on that identity for that next big thing. you're all over the map right now, i think in the next few months, we will see it whittle down a little more and get to your dad's perspective, i believe. arne duncan and the administration's new plan. >> i do a how-to on how to open

one of those cans, one of those cans. >> everything from how to save europe to how to ask for a raise. that's mine. but first, let's go to todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd. >> good morning. some folks may need how-to driving in the heavy rainfall. detroit starting to see heavier showers and a tornado watch from 1: oe clo:00 eastern to eastern kentucky. keep in mind travel-wise. east coast, dc south a chance for thundershowers and coming up here on "morning joe." many [ woman ] my grocery bill isn't wasteful spending. [ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game.

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higher standards are the right goal. accountability is the right goal. closing the achievement gap is the right goal. and we have to stay focused on those goals. but experience has taught us that in its implementation, no child left behind had some serious flaws that are hurting our children instead of helping them. >> 20 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the secretary of education, arne duncan on our set. >> thanks for having me. >> and that was the president on changes to no child left behind.

what specifically will the changes be? >> we basically want to get out of the way of the states. while the law has good intent, there are fatal flaws today. far too punitive. many ways to fail, no we warewa for success. our children need a narrow curriculum and we will fix those things and have a high bar. we have to give great teachers and educators room to move and can't keep beating down from washington. that's what will change. >> what changes will they make that you hope will change the overall negative impact of no child left behind. >> we encourage states to raise standards not dummy them down from no child left behind we regarding great teachers and principals and incentive to take on great assignments and make sure districts are turning around chronically under-performing schools dropping down 40, 50% of

students. that's gone on too long. in exchange we will get out of their way and give them more room to move. the trade-off is a higher bar and give them flexibility to hit the higher bar. >> one of the headlines that came out of this, mr. secretary, you're eliminating a law that says children have to show performance in science and math by 2014 and that seems counselor intuitive to what we are trying to do. >> growth and gain and progress and how much better students are getting each year. if you're a great teacher and i come to your classroom three grade levels behind and leave your classroom one grade level behind. under current law, you're a failure and school labeled a failure. i don't think you're a failure. i had two years of growth for one year of instruction. we want to see how much every student and district is improving. >> you're not de-emphasizing

math and science? >> far from it. >> let's hope not. >> how do you make sure she states are compliant measure up? >> they will have a high bar and apply for a waiver and flexibility. if they're dummying things down, we won't give them a waiver and prove we're serious about this. you have seen a huge amount of courage and innovation, 44 states raising standards and working together on next generation of assessments. the federal government has been an inhibitor and stopped the kind of innovation and progress we need. when i ran in chicago public schools, i had to come to washington and beg them to allow me to tutor 25,000 students after school. washington was trying to tell me i couldn't tutor my children after school. it was a huge battle and luckily, i won. >> get government out of the way. kind of sound like a republican. >> i think there are great teachers, great principals,

great educators at the local level. we can't micro-manage 95,000 schools or 15,000 districts. great local educators know what their children and communities need. i travel around the country and see what they need every day. we want to support them. >> we're about 30 years from a nation at risk, the reagan era report how public schools were failing. when you look at this historically, was there a moment before '83, where you would point to, as a country, we were educating folks well, and what are the lessons from that moment, if there is one? >> it's really interesting. the reason i feel such a huge sense of urgency, today, we have many countries outeducating us. a generation ago we led the world in college graduates. we've not dropped, we flatlined but have 16 countries that passed us by, outeducating us, outinvesting us, and they will outcome pete us tomorrow. and we have to keep jobs in this

count country. we are to push hard and look at ourselves in the mirror being critical. we have to get better faster than we have, not because we dropped, we got stagnated and other countries are doing a much better job than we have today and that's unacceptable. >> would you argue '50s and '60s because of the cold war investments and science and math? >> i think the sputnik moment created a sense of urgency and we're trying to create a sense of urgency now and things happening internationally pushed our country to go further faster. we have to regain that momentum and sense of urgency. it's an inner city issue, rural issue, across the country. our dropout rate is unacceptably high. we have to get that down to zero and make sure high school graduates are college and career ready. a huge emphasis on early childhood education, reform,

record increases in pell grants. you can't just have access to college, it's about complete and attainment. >> i have a really good friend just laid off, laid off and now has to reapply for her job like so many teachers cross the country do. what do you say to her, someone who wants to teach, young person dying to get in the classroom and because of slash and burn at state houses may not have a job? >> it's brutally tough out there, talked to veteran educators teaching, this is the toughest i have ever seen and why the american jobs act is so important. $30 billion to save and restore teacher jobs and $30 billion to rehab schools around the country, so many buildings crumbling, roofs leaking, windows you can't see through and have to make sure teachers are in the classroom and not unemployment line. this is a significant investment and investment in education.

we have to make that investment. other countries are doing it where we're seeing class sizes skyrocket and art and p.e. and music and other programs going away, that's not good for our children and the country. we have an opportunity and i desperately hope congress passes this bill. >> to rebuild our education system for the future is what you're talking about, that means children entering school this year and next year and years to come might have a chance to do better if you're even halfway successful. not to give you more problems to deal with but how are we accommodating the millions of young people who have dropped out of high school right now? this lost decade? >> it's hugely important they have an opportunity to come back to school. as you guys know, if you drop out today, if you don't have a minimum of high school degree, there are basically no good jobs, nothing in the legal economy. >> nothing. >> why high school programs are important and the economy, making a massive investment there hand folks 38 or 58 going

back to retrain, retool, green energy jobs, technology, alternative settings, it can help people get back on their feet and the economy. as as people do that, i think the country will get back on its feet. a big investment in the community college. >> you're optimistic. we all have young children around this table. do you feel good about the future of exhibitions? >> my wife and i have a fourth grader and second grader. this is personal. we have to get much better. i am wildly optimistic. the hard work i see going around the countries extraordinary. we have to empower those great educators and encourage them to do more. if we as adults do our job, our children will more than meet us halfway. >> secretary arne duncan, good to see you again. tomorrow, education reform,

is it the last hope for bipartisanship. fix europe and get a raise at work. your ultimate how-to guide is next. plus, why michael vick says he's being treated unfairly. we'll break down week three in the nfl. it's about building cars in america.

it's all about jobs. it's all about respect. security. the american dream. [ jamaul ] good jobs in tough times. a chance to move up and do better. [ delaunta ] excellent healthcare. [ caletha ] beautiful benefits. what they used to call the american way. it still works here. [ jennifer ] not a single layoff of a u.s. manufacturing worker. [ glen ] not one. not one. doing things the right way. quality. [ jimmeka ] building cars that americans want. [ jamaul ] right here in america. hyundai is an all-american success story. ♪ hyundai is an ayesterday doesn't win.ory. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies

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welcome back to "morning joe" for this morning's business before the bell. we're taking a special look for the new issue of business week where professionals and leaders give expertise how to solve specific problems. and irene legard to mika's piece how to ask for a raise and josh is here. let's start with the obvious, mika. that's the most important issue. >> no, it's not. >> it is important. the idea is get people a range of things from expert,

day-to-day lives, really important, like how to get a raise, how to run a meeting and also do the really really big stuff, how to save europe and reinvent manufacturing. mika's piece is a terrific piece, honest. that's the key to these pieces. if they're honest, you get something out of it. >> what's your best piece, how to get a raise? >> don't apologize for it. if you're a woman. have your information and data. know what everybody else makes an what people from other companies do what you do and make and go in there with information. >> know the market and your value. >> you have to know what your value is to the company. >> that is the only thing you talk about. the only thing you talk about. you don't hem how and don't feel bad. you have to pick your timing. i think i'm more interested in how to save europe. >> well, recapitalizing the banks would be good. that's something you can talk about with your boss when you ask for a raise.

christine really talks about without recapitalization, there is no europe. i like the fact we ping-pong back and forth how to get a raise. >> how about how to run a meeting by donald rumsfeld. >> he has run a lot of meetings. >> whoa. >> he has the stand-up desk and runs things that way. one of the most important points really interesting in the piece, talks about what to do with people who state the obvious from the meetings, you remove them from the meeting and that saves people a lot of time. he has people state their assumpti assumptions, come in, say what you're there to talk about and state the assumptions. if you believe it, you save a lot of time, no going back and forth and if they agree, you head off a meeting before it goes off the rails. >> how do you remove someone from a meeting >> if you're rumsfield -- >> i'm serious. >> they call it rendition. >> seriously, you're not adding value to the table, we'd like

you to leave. >> he goes and talks to you before hand, we don't need you at this meeting if you're going to state the obvious. >> that's clarifying. >> something we should say to people before they come on the show, then know one would sit here. >> i like how to spot a fraud. >> whistle-blowers. >> and bringing to the attention of the sec basically a decade before. one of the things he says, look at the returns. if you're charting the return, you see that classic 45 degree angle up, hockey stick, you know you have something wrong, especially when it comes to investments, people don't perform that way, not mechanized, good years, bad years, forever you see that, something's wrong. >> how to network effectively. >> that's by the guy from four square, basically, be aggressive. talk to everybody you can, take advantage of every opportunity, take every flight you can. we render that as a graphic and choose your adventure, do this, that, end up on an island in

croatia. >> pay people. >> a bay havbehavioral economist duke not pay people for something descriptive. pay for described acts you will get it. if you give someone a title and show confidence in them, you will get far more based on what you're paying them. >> that plays into knowing your value, too. >> i have a good one. >> go. >> how to fix manufacturing. >> we went to dan acker son for this the ceo of general motors. what he comes up with is adaptability. the longer you lock in contracts, the longer you lock in the way you do business. the way you produce things, the more trouble you will be in. all about adaptability, contracts with uaw, they're in an interesting trade-off to choose between more jobs and higher pay. for acker son, he's willing to go either way, he just wants the

flexibility to do whatever is required on any given day. >> he believes those jobs can come back? >> he believes those jobs can come back and are opening more plants and are coming back. >> can i raise this subject? >> please do. >> you say -- all this manufacturing in europe. how to decant wine in a blender. >> this is by nathan, the famous ex chief of microsoft who spent all that money making his own cookbook. don't matter how expensive throw it in a blender the highest possible setting, oxygenate it quickly, like decanting on steroids and serve the wine and by and large people can't tell the difference between the blended wine and the other wine except it tastes better. >> you still get meachem's margarita mix that taints a bottle of wine. it's ugly. talk about what you're doing

more broadly with your magazine. it really pops now. >> thanks very much. part of the philosophy is you have to live in the present. john knows this from running "newsweek." people don't expect them to tell them the future. every week we have to be up on what's going on in the world. we have done reinsurance in the risk industry and 9/11 and fukudome. we did a story on too big to fail and a story about bank of america. the week before we did a huge story on job retraining and its efficacy. even though this doesn't scream the present tense and lots of stuff going on in the world. we thought the magazine can't be a suicide either, what's going on in the world. cover global events and policy, it's time for the news but the news can be one note if you're not careful and wanted to mix it up? sometimes the title is misleading. business week makes you think you're deep in the wall street weeds.

>> a general interest magazine for people who have anything to do with transactions. >> looks good. bloomberg businesses week, "the how to issue." read mika's book on how to get a raise. and what is going on in the nfl. mike florio joins us next. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here -- to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there every step of the way. call or come in and talk with us today.

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and help stop further joint damage with humira. second down and nine. beautiful! jeremy maclin! and vick took another hit. he remains down. now, he's helped back up on to his feet. >> after such a great play, i felt like i got hit late, no flag, broke my hand.

that's it. >> you're not getting the calls other quarterbacks get? >> absolutely. >> why? why, mike? >> why? i mean, you all see it. there's no reason for me to go into a big resitation about why i'm not getting the calls. the refs have to do their job as well. every time i throw the ball, i get hit in the head. i don't know why i don't get the 15 yard flags like everybody else do. i'm not going to complain about it, i'm just making everybody aware of it. >> michael vick after eagles lost to the giants last night, going after the refs a little bit. gridiron report, mike florio of nbc sports founder of the sports blog, pro-footballtalk.com. >> i have seen several hits on quarterbacks that weren't flagged last week against the chargers. tom brady about got his knee caved in. no flag.

and on the eagles, taking a wicked helmet to helmet shot and refs are missing the calls. not that michael vick is not getting calls other quarterbacks are getting. >> he takes a lot of shots because he's essentially a running back. >> he should worry less about drawing those penalties and avoiding those hits because he's been injured two weeks in a row and could be out three to four weeks with his broken hand. >> three to four weeks. that puts the eagles in trouble. they were the dream season and not looking so dreamy. >> they have issues, guys not wanting to tackle and linebackers shuffled around. they welcomed the expectations and raised the bar so high with all the guys they brought in, in july and august. hard to live up to. they're 1-2 and if they don't have vick for a month, who knows what they will be. >> you mentioned tom brady and four interception, bills come back to beat the pats. are bills for real?

>> a long way to go. it's good for bills. they started 4-0 in 2008 and all fell apart. they know you need to keep going week in and week out and can never exhale. they haven't beaten patriots since 2003 and will take this one. tom brady, four exceptions yesterday, had four interceptions all year. >> do you like the bills? >>. >> >> i don't like raiders falling behind at halftime or raiders. you can't rely on ability to come back from 20 point deficits. there's something magical for now going on in buffalo. >> detroit lions in minnesota, 20-0 at the half. what happened? >> vikings every week this year, they had double digit leads at halftime. 70th points week one, and then week two and yesterday, i figured 28 points they would blow at halftime. lions from the beginning of the 2008 season 4-40, now 7-0 since

then. one of the best trourndurnaroun. >> is stafford the best pick this year? he's racking in the points. >> tom brady not bad. >> stafford is a great quarterback. peter king was in here a month ago and surprised some people and said he wouldn't be surprised if lions went to the super bowl. >> it would not be a shock. they're only a handful of undefeated teams. packers and lions. could be a great game. >> jets lose to raiders. >> raiders are the team the jets want to be, especially offense, run the ball and play great defense. when mark sanchez has 250 yards rushing, not the way rex ryan wants to play football. it has been a circus the last decade. they have talented young weapons, darren mcfadden, tyrone jones, a rookie, a blazer like chris johnson before he softened up this year for whatever

reason, danarius moore, 19th receiver taken in the draft. they get the patriots this weekend, the magic's back. that could be a great game. >> what's happening in the nfl two or three of the most exciting teams this year are the lions, and the raiders, we just saw the raiders and the bills. >> lions are talented, great defense and great skill playing, not a fluke. >> what's the story? >> between matthew stafford, they're getting talented players and an incredible to see that team being horrible for years. >> who gets the credit? >> a lot to coach schwartz, different that came in. the front office is largely the same since matt millen was gone. they're making better decisions on players and better decisions during games and they're winning. it's an amazing thing for folks

to see in detroit. >> redskins, cowboys, romo playing with a flak jacket on. who do you like? >> hard to pick against cowboys. romo is 4-4 all time ape intelligen -- all time against redskins as a starter. hard to go against the cowboys. redskins have been surprisingly good this year. >> give romo credit, playing really hurt. nice to see you. up next, rick perry gets the snl treatment from alec baldwin. ♪

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snl was back saturday night and they opened the show with a parody of republican debates. alec baldwin, rick perry and bill hater as sheriff smith. >> governor perry, we begin with you, nearly three weeks ago you were the darling of the republican party and after three debates you have problems with consistency and giving doubts. can you speak for 10 seconds without alienating your base? >> the conservative base needs to know rick perry stands with them 110%. i believe we no lower regulations and believe all 10-year-old girls should be

vaccinated with hpv so they can enter into meaningful sexual relationship. consistent, i believe social security is a ponzi scheme and need to build a fence to keep illegals out however should any illegals get through and have children, we should open our hearts and pay for their education. >> newt gingrich, calling your bluff, do you really want to be president? >> no. >> would you like to leave now and beat the rush out of the parking lot? >> thank you. >> michele bachmann. >> you know you want it. >> how do you rebound from your falling poll numbers? >> shepherd, i'm persistent. when i want something, i won't take no for an answer.

take for instance when i first met my husband, we were both at a party and i saw him across the room acting out all the parts photograph the musical, "grease." smitten, i asked him out for a hot water and lemon. he said, misses thang, here's a quarter, buy yourself a lemon. i wouldn't give up. in closing, fence, jesus, papilloma, eyeballs. >> that is great. >> snl is back. >> up next, what if anything did we learn today? i'm weather travel

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no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins.

fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. >> welcome back. time to talk about what you learned. what did you learn? >> i learned if our public schools fail, it's not from lack of enthusiasm from arne duncan. >> great work. what did you learn? >> south bronx, microlending opening today. nobel peace prize winner, not willie. >> willie wants to be a nobel prize winner, to go along with best looking from the high school yearbook. >> i didn't get that either. >> what did you learn? >> if you want to know more about what the white house is