chalk it up. people with bats and various other rodents and var meants. one more. >> scotty writes, i'm in scotti with my first-born child. >> you know, we get a lot of those, rob. a lot of those e-mails. and it's a proven fact, "way too early" induces labor. we're the petosin of cable news. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ hey, good morning, it's friday, september 30th. and welcome to a special edition of "morning joe." i'm joe scarborough, and along with mika brzezinski and willie geist, we're going to have a good time. and of course, we came here

today to talk about one thing. >> yeah. what's that? >> how the new york yankees could give up a seven-run lead. no, actually -- >> no, no -- >> we're here to talk about education. >> you promise? just for a day. >> you take -- >> you taking your son to see the yankees? >> right here. right here. as part of our commitment -- no, i'm not talking about that. i'm talking about our commitment to education with starbucks. and we've spent time in schools across the country from new orleans to tampa, florida, to los angeles. and now this morning, we shine a light on to another great success story in american education. this is the bronx charter school for excellence. we love it. >> this school is among the highest-ranking k-8 schools in all of new york state. and the fifth grade class sits atop all new york city schools. >> is there a teacher here? >> there's some teachers here! you're doing a great job! >> love it. >> it's an unbelievable success story. and i'll tell you why.

we're going to meet some of the key educators here and find out what they're doing right. and we're going to find out how that formula can be emulated, not only across new york city, but also across the state and across the country. >> among our many guests this morning will be starbucks ceo howard schults, dr. jeffrey sachs, rev al sharpton and glor gloria estefan will be here. we have the executive editor at random house john meacham, we have msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nsu harold. >> look at these kids on the front row. what time did you have to wake up today? >> 3:00. >> that's not good! that's no good! you woke up -- but this is

what's so exciting, right? since you woke up at 3:00, they're not going to make you go to school today, right? >> exactly free day, right? >> right. >> no. you've got to go to school. and eat your carrots. >> former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. meacham, do you have the list of rules from the school? i think joe needs to review. >> oh, no. >> before i get to news. >> okay. willie, listen to this. >> and your art room downstairs, i copied five art room rules. >> and you want to apply these to "morning joe." >> particularly to you and dr. geist. number one, respect yourself and others. >> okay. there's a problem there. willie and i know ourselves too well. >> number two is not going to go over well. listen carefully during instruction. that will not -- >> in fact, i'm already bored with this list. >> number three is remain seated at all times.

number four, raise your hand to ask a question. and number five, challenge yourself and be creative. so it's -- >> good lord. >> these are rules i think apply. >> there's a reason why my school when i was in fifth grade was not the best in the city which i lived in. so these are special kids. it's a special school, and more importantly, mika, the community. what everybody is doing here is just so critical. because the one thing we want to avoid. and you see this time and time again whether people talking about health care reform or education reform. the one thing we want to do is figure out what's working here. >> exactly, exactly. >> and take it across the country from here to crenshaw and all the places that you, willie, and i have been over the past year or so. >> well, throughout the next three hours, we're going to be highlighting some of the bright spots. what makes the school work, willie. >> i spent some time here on monday. and you talk about the

community. and to listen to charlene reed talk about a partnership between the teachers and the parents. she said neither side can do the job alone. we work together. and it's critical she gets the families involved and they do a great job of that here. >> and you know what's so fascinating. since we've started doing this actively over the past year and a half, two years, the debate has changed. you talk about that partnership between parents and teachers. now, there were a lot of people that would always talk about teachers union. i would talk about teachers unions. we've got to loosen the rules, a allow teachers to be more creative, we've got to reward them. well, unfortunately, from the first year of the debate, people were getting the message that the battle was against the teachers. no, it's not. it is that partnership that willie was talking about. it's teachers and parents and the community. it's all of us that have an equal responsibility. and i love where this debate's

going. because i think we're moving in a positive direction. we've seen it, again, from crenshaw high school in l.a. to here. >> and i love what they're doing, as well, as it pertains to obesity and diabetes. they have an event coming up. let's get to the news, shall we? the list is very personal. and i suggest you follow the list that meacham read to the tee. >> do we have to? there's a bar that you're waiting for me to fall over. but do we have to do news here? i want to talk a little bit. >> i have some really good news. >> i want to talk a little bit. the good news is coming from, you know, this school. it's just exciting. >> okay. >> so -- >> there's also news to report. >> we'll report news in a second. >> okay. >> what have we seen? >> he's breaking rules already. >> which rule am i breaking

here? >> well, you've remained seated. >> i have remained seated. so i get that going for me. so harold, we were on the education committee together years ago in congress. and washington, d.c. tries to do what washington, d.c. can do. but at the end of the day, whether you're in memphis, tennessee, or whether you're in the bronx, it comes down to that partnership that willie was talking about. it's very personal, and it's on the ground, and it's what's happening right here in this -- >> we live in a city where the private sector is dominated largely by media and finance. and as i listen to willie talk about the collaboration between the school and the community. when you think about the psychological, the shareholders of the school are the parents and the community. the consumers are these kids. and you have a ceo and she has a board made up of her faculty. the only way any school, i don't

care if it's a public school, private school, charter school function successfully is if all of the stake holders are not only a part, but contributing to the extent that they're supposed to. and that the kids are consuming the knowledge and the products that are being provided by this great school. i'm excited as you talked about as willie in your show you talked about 2009 and 2010, this school had the highest performing fifth grade math and english throughout anywhere in new york. for anyone who believe that kids live a certain way, it's schools like this that serve as an example for not only education committee and congress, but all of those critics out there who say kids can't learn, that unions are the problem. what they ought to focus on are products being provided right here. kids following these rules and kids excelling in a classroom as they are here. >> no doubt about it. no doubt about it. we're going to be talking about that over the next three hours. but now, mika, let's go to news. >> really?

>> i just wanted to wake harold up. >> i'm seated. >> again, i can't wait for the first person to trip over that bar there. the white house is taking its job push to florida, swing state, critical to president obama's reelection hopes. speaking with nbc's orlando affiliate yesterday, the president offered his thoughts on why the economy has struggled in recent years. >> the way i think about it is, you know, this is a great, great country that had gotten a little soft and, you know, we didn't have that same competitive edge that we needed over the last couple of decades. we need to get back on track. but, you know, i still wouldn't trade our position with any country's on earth. we still have the best universities, best scientists, and best workers in the world. we still have the most dynamic, economic system in the world. so we just need to bring all those things together.

>> hmm. in a separate interview with miami radio station -- with a miami radio station, vice president joe biden acknowledged the frustration felt by many americans and underlined the responsibility that the current administration has for the turning things around. >> even though 50% of the american people think the economy tanked because of the last administration, that's not relevant. what's relevant is we're in charge. and right now we are the ones in charge, and it's gotten better, but it hasn't gotten good enough. so i don't blame them for being mad. we're in charge, so they're angry. >> it's on us. >> yeah, john meacham, after that, of course, he wrote a $5,000 check to the elect romney campaign. i don't quite understand that -- no, don't blame them, blame us. >> maybe he was trying to take personal responsibility, but it

was a curious thing for a vice president to say. >> that was the most passive aggressive thing i've seen in american politics this week. we're not saying -- nixon used to do this, there are some who say. no, you just can't. people in politics, people don't care what -- you don't get enough credit for what you avoided. but people just want to know what's going to happen to their jobs right now. they want to know what's happening tomorrow. it hurts me to say, they don't care about what happened yesterday. >> do you say this because the vice president went on to say the 2012 election will be a "referendum" on the obama administration? >> well, bill clinton would argue that elections are always about the future and not the past. in this case, it's a continuum. and i think people decide in presidential elections, who do they want to hire to be in charge of their futures? >> michael steele, at the end of the day most americans do blame

george bush for the economy and the republicans for where we are right now. but a year from now, four years into a presidency, when people go into that voting booth to make that decision on whether they rehire the president and joe biden, they're going. they're not going to be thinking about george w. bush. they're going to be thinking about who's been running the country for the last four years. so actually joe biden is -- >> i thought it was a bit of honest candor about where things are and how americans are looking at their economy, they're looking at their situation, and they're relating it to both administrations, quite frankly, at this point. and you're absolutely right. by the time you get to the voting booths in 2012, it is the obama administration, it is what policies they've put in place from health care to education, to the wars in afghanistan and iraq. and reality is starting to set in. they're looking at the polling numbers a year out. they've got a big hill to climb, a lot of work to do. and it's not enough to say it's

the other guy's fault. you've had 3 1/2 years or three years solid where you've put policies in place that have had an impact and are having an impact. and people are responding to that. and i think biden was very honest, and i appreciated that. >> yep, and willie? >> i was going to say it's more remarkable when you consider over the last two years the narrative the president set out. the whole thing about the car was in the ditch, we have to put it in reverse and get out of the ditch. we can't be held responsible for the bush administration. this cuts through all of that. it's us. >> we've run our tow truck to the ditch three years ago. so look at us. >> he wanted off the company -- >> thank you, mr. vice president. so what are the polls saying, mika, about this? >> a new gallup poll showing 52% of americans think the president and congress are doing worse than their predecessors. and 33% said about the same.

latest gallup poll. >> those are disturbing numbers not just for the president, but also for congress. but harold ford, those numbers underline a growing malaise among the american voters. much like 1979 that has america looking at washington saying what don't they get? how can they be so disconnected? more parents now than ever think that the future will not be as good as the past. >> the dysfunction that's gripping washington, and particularly we saw evidence during the debt ceiling debate, i think you're still seeing the impact in the ramifications of that. what we talked about at the beginning of the show about the good things happening in the school and the best practices, it's probably incumbent upon the president in congress to understand that when they are achieving things. when they are passing things, even when both sides are having to particular, or particularly

both sides have to give a little bit, the country does better. john can certainly point back in history, administration's 100 years back, 25 years back where you saw both sides working together, things getting accomplished. those numbers would change for congress and the president if they passed a jobs bill where democrats gave some and republicans gave some. those numbers would change if the president was willing to sit down with republicans more so around debt reduction and forced the republican hand on debt reduction. right now, they seem to be the president's stuck with his message, republicans are stuck with their message, and in the meantime, the country's stuck with the present economic situation we had. it's not good for any incumbent. you don't win as an incumbent in this kind of an economic climate and this political climate. >> meacham. >> i sometimes think of this as the cleveland test, october 28th, 1980, when ronald reagan says are you better off than you were four years ago? if it's harder for you to buy things in stores, harder for you

to get by, then there's a choice. >> very simple. >> and if this president is going to be able to get around that, as fdr did. because fdr in 1936 was not able to say that things were better than they were in 1932. he couldn't even say that in 1940 because things were still bad in 1940. but fdr was somehow able to articulate to americans the fact, michael steele, that something dramatic had happened in america and there had to be a fundamental reset. and they were in the fight together to reset it. and we have been hearing for four years what a great communicator this president is. at the end of the day, though, when it comes to going out and educating the american people about the great challenge that we're facing, that this is not just a cyclical challenge, this

is a generational crisis, this president seems unable to get that message across to the american people. >> you're hitting on a very interesting and i think somewhat defining point. because you go back and look at the 2008 cycle and what then candidate obama talked about. it was this idea of hope and change. people invested in that. not just liberals, progressives, but independents, conservatives, republicans, invested in this idea of hope and change. it was doing something different in a bold way. what happened? he gets to washington and washington consumed him. consumed his agenda. and so the bowl of ideas he ran on and the things he talked about doing became washington speak. and so this idea of creating a sacrifice became muted to you sacrifice, but you don't have to sacrifice. so the country is bifurcated. and that's not what america wants right now. they want us to come together around a set of bold ideas.

you want to know why chris christie is popular, it's because he speaks openly. that refreshed view of politics. >> he speaks plainly and also does something interesting that harold ford and i would always do. and that is -- i spent most of my time talking to democrats in congress even though i was a republican. harold ford spent most of his time talking to republicans, trying to work out alliances. that is the key. and right now in washington, you don't have that on other side. republicans love to blame the president, what he did his first two years. democrats love to blame the republicans what they've done this past year. at the end of the day, the american people judge you. on whether you were willing to work with your opponents for the betterment of america. and right now, neither side is doing that. >> something mitt romney brought up in the interview with him. you brought up chris christie. he was campaigning for bobby jindal's reelection in louisiana yesterday.

he's called it the end of a very special week. staying awe wa ining away, so f possible run for the white house. but there's a fairly old article, that report claims his wife is having a change of heart. there's just a lot of -- i have to dial back on something i said earlier in the week. there may be a little leg showing. >> you think so? >> i don't think chris christie runs at the end of the day. >> well -- >> i also think if he's not going to run, it's time for him to get back to jersey and hold about 800 town hall meetings this weekend in new jersey. >> about new jersey. >> because he has had a special week that will hurt him politically in new jersey if he doesn't come back home and reconnect. >> it's time. >> go home. >> this is a cynical thing to say, but i think it's true. if telling the truth were popular, all these guys would already be doing it.

this is something that always looks great in the test stage. but once you get out there, it's going to be, wait a minute, you're going to cut what? you're going to do what? these men on white horses who are going to tell the truth never do well, and there's a reason. >> that is cynical. >> that is really cynical. >> i don't think he's going to run this time. >> thanks, meacham. >> he's been in office for less than two years, and he, himself, has said he's not ready to be president. >> now president obama said he would not run. he went on "meet the press" and said i change my mind. i still think it's unlikely. but he keeps traveling and keeps talking. and michael steele knows that means something. >> it means something. do a little fund raising for friends. >> we're just getting started live on the bronx charter school for excellence.

when we come back, politico's top stories of the morning. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ woman ] my grocery bill isn't wasteful spending. [ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits? that wasn't the agreement. [ male announcer ] join the members of aarp and tell washington to stop cuts to our medicare and social security benefits.

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welcome back to "morning joe," live from the bronx charter school for excellence. let's take a look now at the morning papers. we're going to start with the "seattle times." new debit card rules kick in on saturday, reducing the transaction fee that banks can charge businesses. to make up for that lost revenue, bank of america says it will charge customers a $5 a month debit card fee. starting next year. >> and "boston globe," today,

red sox manager terry francona meets with red sox upper management to discuss his contract. really bad time to do that. >> that's not good. >> which expires this year. sources say the team is not expected to bring him back. yesterday red sox epstein says he should not be made the scapegoat. i agree, i believe theo should be made the scapegoat. let's hear what theo has to say. >> nobody blames what happened in september on tito, thad be totally irresponsible and shortsighted and wouldn't recognize any means to the organization and to all our successes, including at times during 2011. so we take full responsibility for what happened, all of us. you know, collectively it was a failure. and i'm the general manager, so i take more responsibility than anybody. but i don't think we believe in -- i know we don't believe in scapegoats, and in particular, no one blames tito for what

happened in september. >> well, you know, maybe not, willie, but you went to a game, and i've heard a lot of other people say those players were dragging in and out of the dugout for the last month. i love tito, but at the same time, the guys weren't inspired. >> a manager cannot pitch or hit, but he can motivate his team, he can make moves inside the game that won't necessarily stop you from the fall they had in september. but the way they played, carried themselves did not reflect well on the manager. >> nor on the general manager. theo was an absolute disgrace this year. he was. no, he was an absolute disgrace. he is the one ultimately who left them unprepared for the final run. and if there is a scapegoat, it needs to be theo. i hope he enjoys the windy city, because we don't want him in

boston anymore. seriously, look at the lineup in september. look at the money they have spent. theo, thank you for your service, now leave. >> the idaho post register reports that schools in eastern idaho like many areas in the country are trying to cope with overcrowding. teachers say it's difficult to give personal attention to every student when there are up to 38 kids in a classroom. some teachers have 300 students to keep track of daily. that's a lot of kids. time now for politico. >> mr. mike allen with a look at the morning playbook. hello, mike. >> happy friday. >> happy friday. >> yay, mike. >> that's how we start our weekend when mike allen says happy friday. >> he's adorable. >> you guys are reporting about the cash scramble going on in the republican party for the presidential candidates. as well as what might happen if chris christie does jump into this race. what are you finding?

>> yeah, well, the big question is, will rick perry have more than mitt romney? and there's a high bar. we've learned that mitt romney is going to announce that in this last quarter in the last three months ending today, east collected 13 or 14 -- $13 million or $14 million, slightly more than the $10 million bar that rick perry said he could cross. so mitt romney this time, his second big fund raising quarter still has more than rick perry, that's going to be a tough narrative for rick perry. he was in texas getting all of his low-hanging fruit money, the easier checks. the people were waiting to support him. didn't have the full three months. but it was very important for him to make a big start. in the next couple of days, that's what people will be watching. michele bauchmann says she's going to disclose her money at the last possible day they can wait until october 15th. she says she's going to. it might be a hint of how much money she has.

and money will be a big factor for chris christie. we're told that chris christie needs to decide within the week whether he's going to go. and his backers, these people you've been talking about. hedge funders and others, they've promised him that they will form a super pack for him. an outside organization that can take unlimited funds to give him a big head start as he tries to catch up in this race. >> michael steele, you've already said you don't think he's going to run. despite that, does that change anything for you? >> i think a lot of the clambering from christie is coming from the moneyed interest in the party. not something from the grass roots, movement among activists and conservatives among the country who are looking to him to step in. so, you know, you've got, again, a bifurcated party. all of this against a backdrop in which barack obama has close to 600,000 donors. not dollars, donors. and so there's going to be a real mad dash for cash and

christie is, i think, on the short end of that stick right now. i don't care what super pack you fund. >> it's going to be $1 billion presidential election this time around. you think rick perry has a problem fund raising given the debate performances? >> well, i've heard he's raised $20 million. which that's a lot of money. >> he's a fundraiser -- >> rick perry comes out and has $20 million quarter, then the debate performances will be ignored, at least, for a little bit. i mean, that's a lot of money. we'll see. $20 million. >> that's $20 million before the debate. keep that in mind. >> $20 million before the debate still spends like $20 million after the debate. >> hey, mike allen, thanks so much. have a great weekend. >> happy weekend. see y'all. all right. coming up, much more from the bronx charter school for excellence. a look at why admissions to this place are in such incredible

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welcome back to our special edition of "morning joe." a new study examining twitter says the social media giant acts

as a 21st century mood ring. >> that's a bad sign. >> i'm depressed if that's the case. is that the home page or the app mentions? because i'm dead if it's the mood ring -- >> no, i would say that the -- >> i am -- i'm just leaving right now. >> the political side of the spectrum spectr spectrum is enraged on both extremes. i think we're talking the whole universe. >> the twitter feed. okay. the study in the journal science examined 500 million tweets over the course of two years. their findings, they were more optimistic in the morning, but as the day wears on, our moods drop a bit before rising again at the end of the day. >> which is opposite of people who follow this show who are pessimistic in the morning and the further they get away from us, the happier they are. >> i want to hear about the school. i don't understand how twitter does that. that doesn't make any sense.

>> you don't believe that story? >> not at all. that's a bunch of useless information. >> let's get good information, then. >> these people don't know one of the things we do well is undercut our own stories. we read it and tell the world how stupid it was that we did it. we want to talk to some of the students here. label and ethel. what do you like about the school? >> well, there's a lot -- there's a lot -- the teachers care about us and it's very challenging. it's a lot smaller. >> you came from another school a couple of years ago. what's your favorite class here? >> history because you get to go back in time and get to know what happened in the world a long time ago. >> absolutely. that's my favorite subject. ethel, your favorite subject in school? >> science. >> why? >> i like science because i'm able to experiment and use my hands instead of just looking.

and i'm able to see the results. >> okay. i'm not going to put you on the spot and ask you your favorite teacher. thank you very much. we'll be back with more "morning joe." [ male announcer ] you've climbed a few mountains during your time.

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big economic news here. global investors are predicting that europe's debt crisis could lead to a devastating, catastrophic meltdown, or as experts call that, doing it red sox style. >> welcome back. to "morning joe," live. >> i don't get it. >> bronx charter school for excellence. listen to the rules, joe.

>> okay. >> it's time now for the must-read opinion pages. i think you're not supposed to talk out of turn, are you? >> you're supposed to listen carefully during instructions. >> oh, listen carefully. this will be fun. >> he's remained seated, so number three -- >> so you're actually reading eugene robinson's speech on chris christie. >> i'm torn about reading it. >> we don't have a whole lot of time. so read it. you've picked it. read it. >> okay. christ christie's hefty burden. whether or not he lets himself be persuaded to run for president, chris christie needs to find some way to lose weight. like everyone else, elected officials perform best when they are in optimal health. christie is not. you could argue this is none of my business, but i disagree. it's not something you can fail to notice. obesity is a national epidemic

whose costs are measured not just in dollars and cents but also in lives. politically i disagree with christie on almost everything, i'll have plenty of opportunities to tell him why. today i'd like to offer him a bit of unsolicited, nonpartisan sincere advice, eat a salad and take a walk. see, i think that last part there is mean and that it's not that easy. and if it was, he would've done it. i talked to chris christie, and he's really struggling. he's a trainer. he cares about this deeply. his wife does, his family does, and you know what? i actually think it makes him a more real candidate. because he's got a real problem that, you know what? kids in this school are dealing with. they're having a walk-a-thon in two weeks, the community is coming together because it's got the highest obesity rate in new york city and diabetes. and they're doing something about it. and chris christie could become a national symbol, if he wants.

and i don't think we make senatsnarky lines and pieces. it's an important issue. don't make fun of it. >> i don't know that he's making fun of it. i think there is a question, though, we have been asking. we bring things on the air that most shows don't. people off the air that have been engaged in these type of presidential campaigns before have said, michael steele, he can't do it physically. you look at george w. bush. when he ran for president was running a seven-minute mile. john kerry in 2004, extraordinary physical shape. you look at a lot of these people running. president obama, my god, great physical shape. this is a marathon. and to be honest with you, the one thing i have not said on the air to this point that the reason i don't know that chris christie could do it because you know very well as does harold and other people, these presidential campaigns are marathons and they are

physically -- physically brutal and exacting. and i really don't think he could endure a year and a half presidential campaign right now. >> physically. >> do you disagree? >> totally. >> i disagree with that too. i think eugene's piece is a little premature. number one, he's not running for president. he's just run the marathon of getting elected governor -- >> it's not the same thing. >> it's not close, that's true. but the point is this, he knows himself better than any of us, certainly, eugene. he knows the struggles and demons he has to deal with, and he's made the commitment to do that. we don't know if there are genetic issues related to his weight, not just eating habits. so i think it's a little premature. i think it's a little bit premature, and you need to take into context the struggles that individuals with weight issues have.

and encourage them and support them, but i think the snarkyness right now is premature. >> john meacham, you could go back, reagan was in incredible shape, bill clinton was not, and guess what? it -- >> it hurt him -- >> he paid the price in the long run. >> and he was young. remember how young he was when he was elected. and now he's in marvelous shape. it is hard. it's a hell of a way to go on a weight loss training program to run for president. but this is an example, and gene's an early indicator of the kind of stuff that comes up when you get in the arena. and he's not in the arena. and i think all of these -- is it a legitimate issue? yes, it's a legitimate issue. >> and, again, i love chris christie, but i've won campaigns on a small level before. >> this is out of line. i like eugene, and respect him

and his writing and all, but this is out of line. >> do you think the topic's out of line? >> no, i think -- you can't take on this guy for being overweight. you can say you don't like his policies. if you look back at the presidents we've had, most of them were in shape, they haven't all been great. this is out of line. out of line. >> you think it went over the line? >> i agree with all of you. >> i think it's over the line. >> willie? >> i think the way it was written. i don't think the issue was an unimportant one. i'll talk to gene later. >> if he were running for president, it should be on the table, and you know who would put it there? chris christie, okay. he would. he is not afraid to talk about these things. and that's what i'm kind of interested in him about as a candidate, actually. >> and if i were him running for president, i'd take this article across the country, you see what these people in washington are

saying about me. >> i would take the article and say that and also i need help with this, you need help with this, america needs help with us, our food is a problem, our addictions to food are a problem and we have to come together and he would -- >> and by the way -- i'm not for chris christie, but this doesn't politically hurt him. >> it's early. >> and by the way, this needs to be said and it's something i would never bring up because i think it is highly personal, but in this -- in this case it needs to be brought up, the united states surgeon general also suffering with obesity. >> there was that issue when it came out -- but we've got to start talking about it again. >> gene needs to talk about it, chris, and perhaps the surgeon general. everybody does. >> we will be right back. [ woman ] my grocery bill isn't wasteful spending.

[ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits?

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over the course of the morning here at the bronx charter school for excellence to some of the people who have made this public charter one of the most highly regarded schools in new york city. the number one in the state, in fact. the reason success here at bcse begins now at the top. >> i'm a coach. that's my style. that's the only thing i know. >> charlene reed is competitive. >> we're athletes here. we keep on working and the work is hard and we're okay with that. >> reporter: the former ucla track star is the head of the

school at the bronx charter school of excellence where she expects hurry students to win. >> we'll pat you on the back and say, look, you've got to work harder. >> those expectations of success extend to the personal dream team of teachers reed has assembled in her school. >> it's like being a football player. if the guy makes the wrong read on the defense, then he goes back. his coach tells him, oh, listen, you made the wrong read. >> and the coach also reserves the right to sit him on the bench for a while. >> absolutely. absolutely. and i think that's part of it, as well. if we're not doing our job, then by the same token, you've got to get somebody in who can. >> the teacher accountability has led to staggering results at the charter school. in data for the last school year, bcse was ranked the highest performing k-8 charter school in all of new york state. >> i knew that if we changed the school culture and we brought in

community staff members that test scores would form that conclusion. >> and they have not come from a hand-picked group of students. >> 22. >> don't cry. you'll make mommy cry, okay? >> last year's documentary film "waiting for superman" showed the anguish of the lottery system with parents and children hoping against long odds for their number to come up. >> i won't give up on my kids. >> reporter: in april, more than 1,600 families in district 11 of the bronx entered a lottery for just 28 seats in this year's kindergarten class. those lucky students were promptly greeted by principal reed's tough love. >> you can come in and tell us that lights have been cut off, that you didn't eat, and you didn't do your homework, but we're going to feed you, you have lights in your school, and you're going to make up your

homework. no excuses. you can't get rid of life. you're living here, deal with it. deal with it. we want to get a big sign in front of our school that says deal with it. >> and joining us now back out live, the woman you saw right there, the head of school for bronx charter school for excellence, ms. charlene reed. so have you gotten that banner up? the just deal with it, banner? >> not yet. soon. >> try to tell our viewing audience what you've done here since you arrived a few years ago to make this the number one public charter school in the state of new york. how did you do it? >> well, i want to start off by saying that when i arrived, the school had gone through some challenges, just like any start-up charter school. and so working with the board of trustees and sitting down with the leadership team that i brought from the department of

education, we hired great teachers and we did it in about a year. >> and you're able to -- you were telling me the other day, incentivize for your teachers. i saw you working the hallways. charlene's in there working it. what do you do to motivate the teachers here? >> well, first, we hire teachers who buy into our mission. so once we know they they've bought into the mission and that they believe my vision and the vision of the leadership team and the board of trustees, then we're half way through. then i get the most talented people i can find. i get educators, teachers who have gone through training. we have a partnership with teach for america, and we bring in top-notch teachers. they are really professionals and they've honed in on their craft. so they're teachers. and they love teaching and they don't give up. >> and joe, under charlene's leadership, she's gotten the

teachers to buy in where they'll come in early, stay late, and do the extra work. and if a kid can't read, it's not, oh, we'll work it out tomorrow, let's help that kid read right now. >> i tell them, this child has only been on earth for 60 months, it's not their fault. you have to figure out why. it's not their fault, it's our fault if we can't teach them how to read or do math or anything. >> and you say the teachers have to buy into the mission. >> uh-huh. >> when a teacher comes to you and asks you what is your mission? what do you tell them in a sentence? >> well, first, if anyone knows our interview process, any teacher who has been through our interview process is about a four to six hour maybe two-day process. and we go in on them and say, look, you're coming into an environment where you have to work. if you don't want to work, you can't work here. there are no excuses at our school. >> no excuses.

>> no excuses. just deal with it. >> just deal with it. >> one of the other great things when you walk into the school that hits you right away. there are college pennants. so the idea of college is planted in these kids from the moment they walk in. it's kindergarten. college as you say, it's not an option, it's what you're doing after you get through high school. >> yes. >> thanks so much for having us here. we'll be talking to you and the rest of the school throughout the morning. congrats. up next, jeffrey sachs. live from the bronx charter school for excellence. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds.

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in fact, every young person listening tonight who is contemplating their career choice, if you want to make a difference in the life of our nation, if you want to make a difference in the life of a child, become a teacher. your country needs you. the quality of our math and science education lags behind many other nations. america's fallen to ninth in the proportion of young people with a college degree. and so the question is whether a all of us as citizens and as parents are willing to do what's necessary to give every child a chance to succeed.

>> welcome back to "morning joe." we're live here in the bronx at the bronx charter school for excellence as part of our commitment to education with starbucks. john meacham and michael steele are still with us, and joining the discussion this morning, if i can get the words out. >> you're so excited because this is so big. >> no, i'm just assuming at some point -- >> look at these guys. >> they're fabulous. >> great crowd, great guests. >> we've got the director of the earth institute at columbia university and the author of the book "the price of civilization" dr. jeffrey sachs. congratulations on that. >> thank you. >> and we have host of msnbc's politics nation reverend al sharpton. >> and, you know, as al walked in here, he said i want to stand

up as a former fat guy for fat guys everywhere. >> that's right. i do think -- i do think you've got to deal with the optics, the cosmetics of politics. people want people that look a certain way, but i have to agree as i usually do with her assessment that we can't be anti-fat. i think it's a challenge for health. i lost weight -- my daughter's with me this morning, and she was the one that helped to -- and my daughter, i think, is a closet republican because she really likes you. >> that's a problem. we'll have to talk to her -- >> the mika fan club. >> you lost a lot of weight. >> i lost 120 pounds. >> how did you do it? >> well, it started, i went on a fast when i went to jail. and i came out, i had realized i could conquer my appetite.

most of what we eat is what we think -- >> the al sharpton jailhouse diet. >> what i think we should do is put governor christie in jail for 90 days. no, you don't want to put people on my diet. but i do think that it is very important that we do stress -- i think mika's right, the obesity problem. a lot of young people. i think one of the things great about ms. reed here at this school is de-stressing the athletic competition gives you an athletic sense of help. i can cross my legs now during an interview. >> we talk about christie being -- if he decided to, christie being a good example to lose weight like you, possibly. also we brought up the surgeon general who is the symbol, as you said offset, she is the symbol of u.s. health. >> she's what we would call big boned. she's a symbol.

you've got to deal with optics. one of the great things mrs. obama's done is stress health. and i would agree that's a great image. we cannot have obesity leads to diabetes and other health things. besides from the optics, which is important in politics, you do not need a symbol of bad health in this country for many of us. >> well, at the same time, i do think we need to talk about it. we need to actually talk about it. like we talk about other illnesses and epidemics and threats to our nation's security. i love what this school is doing. they have a walk-a-thon they're planning with the parents. and they're dealing with the fact i mentioned earlier. the highest obesity rate in the city. and they're addressing it on a wholistic level. dr. sachs, it is a threat to our civilization, at least to our society in america. >> and not just healthwise, but financially. the cost to the united states government in medicare, medicaid

payments, diabetes is one of the great drains on our budget. >> and what's sad is the u.s. just has shot off the charts compared to every other part of the world. this is something that is a trend everywhere, but to other places have gone up gradually, the united states has just had an explosion of this. >> why is that? you travel all around the globe, why is that? >> people here sit more and eat more. and there's more fast food industry pushing unhealthy foods on the one side and people sit in front of the television more hours per day than any other country in the world. >> why is nit the most affluent pockets of u.s. society, u.s. culture, you have the thinnest people with all these whole food grocery stores. if you want to get fresh fruit and eat a great diet -- >> it's expensive and difficult. >> it's expensive and difficult. >> absolutely.

you try to find a place to buy salads in an area in the south bronx or harlem. >> you don't find the fruit stands. >> communities where we do work and you can't even find a salad. you've got to go to a wealthy area, or downtown area. fast food, bad food, is dominant in poor areas. >> they sometimes say it's a fruit and vegetable desert in poor neighborhoods. you don't find the push carts that you find in the upper east side of manhattan, for example, and the food is more expensive per calorie, healthier diet. fast food is inexpensive food and the industry has pushed cheap, carbohydrate calories. it's diet and it's sitting. it's sitting hours every day. >> i don't care if it's in the bronx or the west side, lettuce is lettuce. you don't have to charge $7 for a salad bowl of lettuce.

you can bring those resources to communities like this and share it, if you will with those who are subject to a hamburger the size of your head and encouraging people -- >> i'm hungry. >> -- encouraging our young people to engage in bad eating habits. so whole foods and these establishments are great, but there's no reason they can't be in this community too. and you don't have to charge that kind of money. >> and i understand china now is dealing with a growing obesity crisis. is that the case? >> every place has a rise but the u.s. is off the charts. because we reach 35% adult obesity, we've reached 70% overweight. it's a lot. >> yeah. >> 50 years ago was the last time physical education and health was a national priority. it was the kennedys, and it was because we felt under threat, under siege from the communists.

president kennedy said every american should be able to do the marine workout. so his brother immediately went out and walked 20 miles in his wing tips. it's a competitive issue too, and a human issue. >> i completely agree. >> i'm sure we don't still have it. but because of kennedy, we had the physical fitness test and -- >> you remember that? >> people actually had physical finance programs. it was part of the curriculum, a lot of that has been cut out. and that's why i salute what she's doing here with ms. reed. you've got to make that part of the development and character of young people. to grow up wanting to be healthy and having pitched that self-image. >> why shouldn't children across the country not have equally healthy food? >> it is important. here in school, though. >> yeah. >> i really think there has to be a national push for more exercise. >> absolutely. >> but also, we have to carve

out more time for active exercise inside schools. >> you know who agrees with you a little bit, sort of a touch on what you're saying. >> who's that? >> the president. >> he says we're getting a little soft, joe. >> okay. >> the president is taking the job push to florida. it's obviously a swing state critical to the president's reelection hopes. speaking with nbc's orlando affiliate yesterday, the president offered his thoughts on why the economy has struggled in recent years. take a listen. >> the way i think about it is, this is, you know, a great, great country that had gotten a little soft and, you know, we didn't have that same competitive edge we needed over the last couple of decades. we need to get back on track. but, you know, i still wouldn't trade our position with any country's on earth. we still have the best universities, best scientists, and best workers in the world.

we still have the most dynamic economic system in the world. so we just need to bring all those things together. >> in a separate interview with a miami radio station, vice president joe biden acknowledged the frustration felt by many americans and underlined the responsibility that the current administration has for turning things around. even though 50% of the american people think the economy tanked because of the last administration, that's not relevant. what's relevant is we're in charge. and right now, we are the ones in charge and it's gotten better, but it hasn't gotten good enough. and so i don't blame them for being mad, we're in charge. so they're angry. >> joe biden went on to say, reverend al, that the 2012 election would be a referendum on the obama/biden white house. do you agree with joe biden? >> well, i think that biden has said that we can no longer just

keep talking about who got us in this mess. i don't think we need to act as though we don't know who got us in this mess, but you can't run on that. and i think he's right. i think that the president pushing this jobs bill will be judged on how he got us out. in that judgment we also have to deal with who tried to obstruct our getting it out. i think he'll be running on his record and what the republicans did to try to block his record. i might note that joe biden said that in your home state. >> well, i've got to say, i would think mitt romney may have passed some of those notes. may, don't judge anybody else, judge us for the bad economy. i was fascinated, jeffrey sachs, i agreed with the president, the second part of what he said. if you look at our universities and research facilities that the united states of america is still positioned to excel over the next century if we get things right. but i was fascinated that you

had a president of the united states saying that his country had gotten "a little soft" over the past 20 years. >> i think there's another issue, you know, which is frustrating for me, which is i think the president's right to point to education. that's why we're here today. he's right to point to the universities, to the scientists. but then when you look at the jobs plan, it's about at one-year temporary tax cut, gimmicks of doing something next year. it's not really about those things that truly lead to jobs and productivity. and that's the problem, not just with this administration, and not just with the bush administration. we've had 25 or 30 years where we haven't properly invested in helping kids get all the way through excellent schools and then through university. and what's really happened in this country is the share of kids who make it through a four-year college degree, that

leveled off already 20 years ago. and we have 2/3 of the kids not making it through college even when they go to excellent charter schools. they end up dropping out of college because they can't afford it in this country. that's what i'd like to see the president really talk about is how we're going to have the long-term success not the one-year gimmick. this became a country of gimmicks, not a country of long-term policy. not just with this president. this goes back a long time now. >> at least 20, 25 years, mika. and we've been talking about it before where even the 1990s we thrived on a tech bubble. a lot of free money at the end of the 90s that ended up being an illusion. and then you had enron and mci, worldcom, and then, of course, the mortgage crisis. >> which continues. >> which created another bubble. >> and joe, i know you don't like it, but a also the 1980s too. this really started when we started campaigning against government without realizing that government is key for

primary school, secondary schools, higher education, science, technology, infrastructure, energy systems. so we started this campaign already 30 years ago, government's evil, just cut taxes, everything will be fine. and what the president says is absolutely right. what makes this country great is the science, technology, school systems, higher education. if you don't invest in those over one whole generation, we end up with this crisis. >> i don't want to disagree with the doctor too much here. but i think the other side of going back to why this focus on government over the last 30 years, particularly beginning in the reagan administration, it wasn't so much that government was bad in and of itself. government was bad for what it was doing and how it was spending those dollars. how it was making those investments. all of the special interest. when you talk about wanting to cut taxes and you want to cut spending or raise taxes or

spending, the american people are like, okay, i can buy each of those things, but then tell me what the outcome is going to be. show me what that investment is going to give my kid, not so much me, but my kid so that child has a future that might be sustainable. >> michael, fair enough. >> i think that we've seen the tax cut crowd and the spending crowd and i think now we've got to really come to where we create -- you know it's like having a tooth ache. it's easy to tell a guy with a tooth ache that we need to deal with your long-term problem. but he wants some novocain and filling right now. then deal with my long-term problem. take me out of pain. people are hurting right now. and there are those blocking the novocain. i'll get to the root canal and all other stuff later. but i'm in pain right now. we need jobs right now and your crowd is standing in the way of getting my shot. >> we've got to go to break.

before we go to break, i was about to agree with reverend al because he sounded like he was reaching across both aisles. >> got into that tooth ache thing. >> whether you talk about cutting taxes or cutting spending, you and i can both agree there are some areas where you want to do both. but there are also other places where you need investment. if you look at the long-term trends and the entitlement bubble growing, and then on the other side, you look at the inequity because of our tax system, if a corporation would look at this, we're going to have to shift from here to infrastructure, to education, to move these tax cuts over to promote r & d. >> we spent on war and we spent on overpriced health care. both things we let the health lobby get away with unbelievable costs in the health system. and we spent on war. and we wasted trillions of dollars doing that. we should have been investing in

education. >> and i saw an interesting interview with the ceo of jetblue on cbs last night saying it doesn't have to be one or the other, it should be both. why can't we get to both at this point? we'll continue the conversation and ask those questions. coming up, we continue our brewing together spotlight on education with starbucks ceo howard schultz and also gloria estefan will be here. and up next, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. you're watching "morning joe" live from the bronx charter school for excellence.

yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory.

i will buy everyone in here a drink if by the end of this year there is not action on the jobs end. and congress has to take -- congress will have a lot of explaining to do. members of congress will have a lot of explaining to do when they go home for the end of the year recess if they've done

nothing, nothing to address the urgent need to help our economy and create jobs. >> welcome back to "morning joe" live from the bronx charter school for excellence. and joining us now from washington, we have the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. david, welcome back to the show. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> so first of all, what do you make of the president's comments that we're getting a little soft? we're talking here about education and the obesity epidemic, and it seems to weave together. but the president talking about our nation kind of backing down. he sort of seemed to backtrack a little bit and walk back those words a little bit. >> well, i think he's trying to do a couple of things at once. i think he's trying to position himself as the fighting president against a lot of forces. but i think he's primarily trying to get people fired up. people who support him. people who are disappointed in him.

and shake him up a little bit and say that we've got to get back on track. and we've got to focus on sort of the fight ahead. he wants to capture this fighting spirit. you heard it from his press secretary that people are going to have to answer for ina action. if they don't get a jobs bill passed. this is the campaign he's now running as more of an activist president in this new phase. >> is there a strategy here? you said that he was trying to do a couple of things at once. at the same time, you have the vice president saying, you know what? it's on us, as well. >> yeah, there's no qution. i think they recognize that they've got to own the economy, they've got to put their arms around it. they can't -- vice president biden also said even though half of the people think it's george bush's fault, we know own it. he wants to lose the front end of that sentence and say we own it, it was difficult, we did a lot of things, they weren't always popular, but that's what leaders do. here's where we are, here's where we're going, and we've got a better idea than the other

guys. that's ultimately the argument that he's making. and the president has moved away in my mind of trying to occupy the political center, positioning himself as the adult in the room who is going to craft the grand bargain. now he's saying, look, i was that guy, i'm willing to be that guy for the country. but right now i've got to spend time debunking the other side's ideas and emphasize that we've got to accomplish something. he wants to run against washington, against republicans, and not try to -- he's got to try to not accept the full responsibility for what he hasn't been able to accomplish. whether it's on budget issues or really moving the needle on jobs. >> so dr. jeffrey sachs, you've been critical of the president's approach on the economy and job creation. but when you listen to his words, especially of late, isn't he trying to address the situation realistically? take responsibility at the same time, call out the other time

for the first time since we've ever seen him in charge? >> i think a matter looking forward, i think he has a better argument. the republican position that we have to cut taxes and cut spending isn't going to fly in reality with this economy. but i think if you look back ward, he's lost a lot of time. so the real question in my guess is this a referendum about the past four years? or is it an argument about how we should move forward? if it's the forward argument, i think he's going to win. if the it's the back ward argument, i think he's got a lot of trouble. >> i think dr. sachs is right. i think the argument is and i think joe biden said it first, don't compare us to the almighty, compare us to the alternative. and that's where they're going to run. compare us, our plan for job creation. his bill would provide 1.9 million jobs compared to the republicans' plan which has been

tax cuts and attacking the president. and i think that's what they're going to the public with. i think somewhere along the line, mika and joe, the president went from trying to make this bipartisan agreement, feeling no matter what he has proposes the other side's not going to agree to, fine, you want us in election mode? i'm in election mode now. i'm not going to try to deal with the mid ground because you won't meet me there. >> if the president, though, was trying to deal on the mid ground, he was trying to do it -- it was a very short spring. because for the first two years, the president didn't even talk to republican leadership. the "new york times" article saying he didn't talk to mitch mcdonnell for the two years one-on-one in the white house. the president's getting charged, they come up with what they consider a grand bargain in december and didn't invest in a meaningful way in the country. so, yes, he tried to work a deal for four, five, six months, but now he's going back to campaign mode.

and i've been harshly critical over the republican party over the president's first two years for not reaching out to the other side. but this president will not be able to go into the next election saying, oh, you know what? if -- but for the republicans, we would've had four years of bipartisanship. because that's not how his spent his political capital when he had it. >> exactly. and the american people know that. that was part of what happened in 2010. the people responded to this lack of bipartisanship and the frustration with washington moving the agenda forward. the president handed his health care agenda to nancy pelosi, handed his jobs agenda to the house. he has not necessarily led in the last 2 1/2 years in these issues. now the president's come out and i think others have said, you know, he's kind of moved to the center left, at least, to say, to claim this ground with his base to say, look, i'm going to be the warrior for you.

but america's like, where's that warrior been the last three years? >> thank you. and you could have impact on taxes. >> exactly. >> no, i was going to say, that said harold ford, i find it deeply depressing now that the republican congress and president obama are in campaign mode. >> right. >> so this country is going to wallow another year without real leadership. that said, politically, just politically, the world that this president occupies in washington, d.c. is a harshly political world and he has got a republican house that's going to give him absolutely nothing. so even though i think it is bad for america that everybody's gone into campaign mode over the next year, i don't know that the president has a lot of other options than going out, putting his proposal out there, and then fighting. >> i agree. i think the politics of this -- of this -- one minute before david jumps back in.

the politics of it. people are frustrated with it. republicans think they're right, democrats and the president think they're right. but the vast majority and particular people are not working or struggling wondering, when are you going to deal with my issues? one, whether people like it or not, our energy industry is important to creating jobs. if you lift the moratorium, i could create jobs down south. here in new york, cuomo is looking forward to natural gas drilling to help create the next generation of energy. if we need a next generation of broadband to ensure that america leads on that front and jobs are created, lift some of the regulations. and three, republicans and democrats, stop yelling over stax taxes and spending. talk about the tax cuts for middle class families, enforce the republicans that come to the table. being unrealistic, democrats on one side, republicans the other side serves no purpose but a

campaign purpose. >> i think there's a political calendar that every president has to accomplish big things. this has not been a debate between the white house and republicans over small issues. taxes, entitlements -- i think that answers joe's point about how quickly we've gotten into the campaign mode. he had huge swings, passed big legislation that's. now a debate has to be settled in an election year. i think that's why chris christie's getting traction. the argument about romney about who has the clue about turning the economy around. these are the big ideas, not the bottom line things of taxes and spending. >> you know, david, though, it shows how low we have sunk politically. our political system. that in 1996, president clinton with a hostile republican congress was able to work together with congress to pass welfare reform, telecom reform, some big items in the election

year. and now one year out, we've already given up. and it's a curse on both their houses, a curse on both their houses because this isn't just the president, this isn't just the house. david, washington seems more dysfunctional now than ever. >> it's true. it's true. it's true. no question about it. >> bill clinton didn't have a tea party, though. >> he had me. he had people like me. that is just not true. >> mitch mcconnell said my priority is the to make this president a one-term president. to act like the president is the only one that would reach out and deal with this -- these guys have said no matter what -- nobody is more disappointed than i am in the democratic -- in the democratic congress. >> you cannot say when this president sat there and said let's cut a big bargain, joe --

>> you know what? >> oh, please, what? >> we've got to go to break. we're late. we're cutting through commercials. reverend, al, i've got to comment, though. you always agree in the middle of the segment, and then at the end -- pow! now he's on the floor. what do we have coming up next? willie? >> all right, joe, you and reverend sharpton back to your corners for a couple of minutes. this school we're standing in today was founded in 2004, just seven years later, it is the single highest performing k-8 public charter school in the state of new york. we'll talk more about how that happened and how other schools can duplicate the success here. we're also going to bring in our friend starbucks ceo howard schultz to discuss our brewing together partnership on education. ♪

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welcome back to our special

edition of "morning joe." i have with me the chairwoman of the board for the bronx charter school of excellence joyce frost. joyce, we were just talking a minute ago about the secret of this place. how do you go from a school that was founded just seven years ago to being the single highest performing public charter school in the state of new york right now. what's the secret? >> well, we had that rocky start, but over the past four years, when we brought charlene in, it's all about leadership. and it's leadership from the board level to the head of school down to the teachers, down the classroom, down to instilling leadership within the kids. importantly, we've had our eye on the ball. we really had a massive turn around within one year, just three or four yearago. and unlike some other charter schools that replicate, replicate, replicate. we decided to focus our resources internally to make sure we did it right. >> of you done it right. but what's been the biggest

challenge to getting to this point where you are today? >> many. our biggest challenge today is facilities. so we don't get any public funding at all for our facilities. we spend about $1 million a year on private contracts, private leases with this school and our original school. we just bought a building that we plan to renovate so it's raising those dollars. hopefully we run our finances extremely conservatively. so we are running on a straight balance budget basis. but we budget a surplus knowing we need to save those funds to build a better school. but it's not enough to help us grow. and then importantly, when we think about growth, it's not going to just be by replication. we really truly feel that other schools within our community can learn from our best practices. other public schools, parochial schools. because when we have 1,700 kids on our waiting list. that's embarrassing. terrific for us so to speak, but

we truly believe -- i'd be happy with 200 because there's other choices within the neighborhood for those schools -- for those kids -- >> 1,600 applicants in that lottery in april, 28 accepted into the first class. and as you say, they bought a new building. joyce, thanks so much. been here since the beginning. joyce frost, chairwoman of the board. coming up next, his article on new york city's rubber rooms created a fire storm among teachers unions. up next on "morning joe."

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a wonderful school, the first thing the principal said to me on the first day of school was i had to lay off my two top-performing teachers because of budget cuts two years ago.

>> i don't understand, though. what company -- what company would layoff their two most productive -- there's not a company that could survive that way. so you tell me, why did that happen? that school? >> because we're not putting what's in the best interest of our children -- >> more specific. i specifically want. i'm going to draw it out of you cory. what specifically to know why would that school cheat the students and fire the two best teachers that principal had? >> first of all, don't blame it on the school. >> welcome back to "morning joe," live from the bronx charter school for excellence. joining us now journalist steven brill author of the book "class warfare" inside the fight to fix america's schools. very good to have you on the show. we remember your piece on the rubber rooms, which broke ground on showing how extreme the problems were.

take us into the book and how does it take the controversy forward? what positive steps have been made? and where have things gotten worse? >> well, things have changed a lot since that article. >> yeah, they have. >> you guys with your talking about earlier this morning. and the book is an attempt to take civilians to the front lines of this fight and explain it not simply from the policy standpoint, but from the standpoint of, you know, the nitty-gritty of how schools like this actually succeed. and they succeed because the teachers work awfully hard and they're allowed to work hard and be creative. the school leaders are extraordinary, and most important, the expectations are different. now, the union's position on all of this has changed even in as little as a year. >> it's evolved. >> it has evolved. >> with the controversy. >> and you guys played a role in it. there's a scene in the book where randy winegarden, the head

of the union is on the set with you and carl bernstein starts to grill her about the teachers union's stand against the kind of reforms that make a school like this work. and she later tells me that that was like the low point in her life. you know, she's a liberal democrat and the idea that carl bernstein was treating her like a nixon villain was the way she put it. just sort of drove her around the bend. and she has softened her stance a lot lately. there are lots of programs around the country where her union is working with the reformers. in fact, if you can believe it, she's actually having a book party for me in washington. >> that is unbelievable. >> i'll believe it when it actually happens, but so far it's scheduled. >> you know, i remember that moment. and i was stunned that not only carl but other progressives around the table were leaning in

to randy saying basically saying wake-up. but see something else has happened, though, and we talked about it earlier today. a year and a half ago, everybody was just blaming the teachers union. they were just -- and let me tell you something, we all know. and you report on this. it's not rhetoric. you report on it. the teachers union shares a huge part of the blame for what's happened in the past. but over the past year, people have been moving beyond just blaming the teachers union and looking at it more wholistically. what did you find? >> in a lot of the critics of the book say i change my mind half way through the book. i didn't change my mind. i had this view, the more you get into schools like this and schools around the country, the more you realize you can't solve the overall problem with, you know, 4,000 or 5,000 charter schools like this, which are wonderful. you need the union -- not to bust the union, but to bend the union and get the union to work

with its teachers. >> what's working here works around the united states and all public schools? >> it's not going to work as well as it works here, but you can improve it. this is one of the best schools in the country. you can't have 95,000 best schools in the country, but you can make significant differences. you know, just to give you one concrete example, all the teachers here, i'm certain, have a cell phone which they answer at night if the parents have a question about their kids' homework. you know, we talk about getting the parents involved. well, if you have a union contract that says they don't have to, and in fact, can't answer parent inquiries at night, that's not a good way to get the parents involved. >> i'm about a third the way through the book. i've recommended -- as you said, i was struck by the numbers. the 28 students versus 1,600

slots. 1 out of every 55 get in. how do we address that issue? because you've got to create more bronx charter schools for excellence across bronx, harlem, queens. what's the next step? and what have you found in your research? >> first of all, it's an issue of union politics to be blunt about it. the unions and reverend al who has been at the center of this and the other side of the unions. the unions have worked to restrict the growth of schools like this. so that's one problem. but that is gradually changing because the parents in the communities like this one know that these schools work. that's gradually changing. but if you could wave a magic wand and say let's allow there be 90,000 charter schools. you couldn't do this 95,000 times. there aren't enough, you know, really terrific teachers who

will do it. there aren't enough teachers who will work eight or ten hours a day, six days a week. nor should there be. it's a problem of politics and expansion, but also again a problem of scale and bending the whole system to make it work. >> dr. sachs, then reverend al, it is easier for all of us to say, but people here at this school who are able to sort of jump over the boundaries that hold us back. but there are reasons. this is a charter. the public school system as a whole crumbling. how do we even begin to deal with these issues? >> i think the debate got seriously off track by focusing so much on the unions, actually. there are a lot of great unionized schools. i happen to go to one myself, the public school where the teachers were unionized. that's true all over the country. in more affluent neighborhoods, by the way. >> right. >> right. >> that's part of the story.

this is just a joy to be here today, but there are a lot of charter schools that are failing also. and if you look at the broad mix, having the name charter has been no charter is no guarantee of success. indeed, it's been one of the disappointments. on average it's actually not out performing. >> but there are restrictions that aren't there. >> but the unions are not the barrier and the villain they've been made out to be. that's the kind of magic bullet thinking we like in this country. if you can blame someone, if you don't focus on the whole community, if you don't get the parents involved -- >> but, jeffrey, had the unions not been pushed as hard as they were pushed, had people like carl bernstein and other progressives even not stepped in and said, come on, it's the 21st century, you're going to have to stop acting like this is 1915, then the unions would not have moved. let's be honest about it. i said it myself. you don't want to just blame the

teachers unions. but let's face it. they were obstructionists to progress for a hell of a long time. >> i think what i'm saying is it got off track with everyone looking for the magic bullet. and that was not right. and vilifying our teachers in this country -- a lot of people were. a lot of people were. >> teachers unions and teachers -- the fact is, i'm looking here at the principal and her staff. i guarantee you that the prin principal of this school is allowed to comment on her teachers' lessons plans. go to page 137 of the teachers union contract here, the principal can't comment on the form of the teacher's lesson plan. that is not a recipe for excellence, for raising expectations, and for achieving what these people have achieved. >> no, but i think, joe, you're right. there's no question that there had to be movement on the union's side.

i think randy led the way to saying we have to do some things. i also think there had to be a change and i think he's right. but we had to take it on. that's why i got involved. some people who have been and remain supporters of unions had to say, wait a mint. we we have to do things that work. >> you and newt. that's right. >> we had to go out and say we can't be defensive. we've got to deal with what works like what has worked here. it might make some readjustments. >> all right. thank you so much. >> we're going to get cameras down to randy's book party for you. >> fascinating. coming up we'll talk to singer gloria estefan live here at the bronx charter school. be right back. [ junior ] i played professional basketball for 12 years.

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looking at a live helicopter shot of the yankee stadium about five miles from where we're standing at the bronx charter school for excellence. game one tonight at 8:30 against the detroit tigers and the american league division series. it's time now for a wildly unscientific poll about who is going to win tonight. the yankees or tigers? >> yankees. >> yankees. >> yankees. >> yankees. >> yankees. >> yankees. >> yankees. >> tigers.

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probably the toughest economic times i've ever seen and why the president's american jobs act is so critically important.

$30 billion to save and restore teacher jobs. $30 billion to renovate and rehab schools around the country. so many buildings are crumbling, roofs leaking, windows you can't see through. we have to keep teachers in the classroom not on the unemployment line. we have to make sure our students have access to science and computer labs. this is a very significant investment in education. we have to make that investment. >> welcome back to "morning joe." as the sun comes up over the bronx we're live at the bronx charter school for excellence. it's part of our brewing together, commitment to education with starbucks. we have john meacham, reverend al sharpton and michael steele with us. joining us from seattle is the chairman and ceo of starbucks, howard schultz. good morning and welcome to our very latest brewing together experience. >> good morning, mika. >> i want to start by asking you a little bit about politics. when we were e-mailing in august

you had sent out a notice along with 100 other ceos you being on the front lines of this to stop political contributions to lawmakers until they come up with a deficit reduction plan. i want to know how the response to that has been going. i know you've got about 19,000 other people joining you but are there any plans to take this message any further? >> yes, there are. and i think now that we've got 160 ceos who have signed over 100,000 people have joined us on the town hall meeting, and all we were trying to do was really send a respectful message to washington that we cannot embrace the status quo. we're better than this and we deserve better leadership. we're now going to pivot off of the pledge to suspend contributions to incumbents and focus significantly beginning next week on job creation. i'll be in new york next week. you'll have to stay tuned for what we're going to do next. but basically the question is

how can we use our scale as a company for good? i think not only are we facing a federal budget crisis in which there is a crisis of confidence in america, but what is not being discussed and relates specifically to public education is that the majority of states in america are facing a significant budget crisis of their own. and as a result of that, and i think this is really going to come out in a big, big way, and we'll face unusual cuts in a significant way in social services across america, and what's going to happen as a result of that is that the gap between the haves and the have nots is going to get wider. the social safety net that has provided so many people who need it the most is going to be cut, and there could be significant, unintended consequences as a result of this. and what we're trying to do as a company is really ask and answer the question, we have stores in every community in america. what can we do to use our scale

for good? and i'm trying to encourage other business leaders and other corporate companies who are public to recognize that we can't wait for washington and, in fact, it's not only washington's problem. we're going to have to do more. we're going to have to create a social safety net for the people we hire and the communities we serve. >> and, howard, i look forward to what you're going to be announcing next week to take this message further. i hope that happens on "morning joe." having said that, has there been any response from washington? >> i have -- i did receive a call from the president, had a very positive conversation with him that lasted almost 40 minutes. he's given me permission to say that so i think i'm okay with that. and i think he understood with great respect what we're trying to do and i suspect that i will be talking to him again

relatively soon. other than that, i have not heard from any congressional leader. we have asked to meet with certain people and that has not occurred. you know, i think the problem we have right now is such a crisis of leadership, and i just do not understand why the people in washington don't get it. this is no longer a crisis. this is an emergency and we have to have a deep sense of urgency. what i would like to ask is for the people in washington to put their feet in the shoes of working americans who can't make house payments, who can't afford to send their kids to school, who are unemployed for over a year. it literally is the fracturing of the humanity of america and we are better than this and i'm going to do -- use my platform in the most respectful way to try and make a difference. >> you know, howard, obviously you may not have heard from the ranking members of public works committees in the house or the senate but talking to the

president of the united states for as long as you did, that certainly sends a strong message i think to everybody in washington that they need to sit up and listen to what you're talking about. but you've also talked for sometime about education. when we started this relationship several years ago, you and mika and willie and myself agreed the only way it worked is if it was something bigger. it was about something that mattered to us. >> yes. >> and we chose education. for a lot of the same reasons. we all have our separate stories. willie, mika, and myself. but you have your own story. you're a new york boy. even though you're now in seattle with strange looking pointy buildings behind you in the background and mountains, you're a new york boy at heart, a brooklyn boy. talk about your story. >> sure. well, first of all, the yankees will definitely win tonight. i can promise you that. [ applause ]

but, you know, i -- i think as you know, joe, i grew up in the projects in brooklyn. just four years ago i was asked to give the graduation speech at the high school which i was happy to do. what i did not know at the time is that was going to be the last graduation speech because that high school and many other schools in brooklyn were being closed because of truancy and dropout rates. so this is personal for me. i think when i was faced with the fact that my high school was closing i couldn't believe it. i was stunned. i just -- there's something wrong systemically with our system that a school like that that produced so many great kids could somehow fall down the wayside because of truancy and dropout rates. when we met and i think you and mika and everyone at "morning joe" deserves so much credit for highlighting this tragic situation and this emergency.

again, we asked the question collectively, what can we do to make a difference? so this 60 million people who go through starbucks stores, we created this fantastic coffee with "morning joe" and now beginning next tuesday there will be a $5 coupon which goes to donors choose. donors choose is an extraordinary organization that allows our customers to donate to the school of their choice, to the classroom of their choice, or any specific project that they want to engage in through this donation. so this is an opportunity for "morning joe" and starbucks to use our collective assets, again, to be a catalyst for change. what this is about right now is that we can't wait for washington. we have to make a difference and the private sector has got to step up and hopefully send a positive signal that we're not going to stand by. we're not going to embrace the status quo. we'll try and make a difference.

>> howard, donors choose.org is a great organization. it's targeted spending. schools list what they need and the money goes directly to that. i want to commend you on an excellent pander to the bronx crowd by saying the yankees are going to win. well done. >> the bad news is, willie, of course, starbucks' sales in detroit plummeting to all time lows this afternoon. >> he went with the bigger market i guess. i do want to ask you, though, there is so much pessimism around education when we get every day it seems a new statistic about how far we're falling behind the world in math and science. you come to a place like this school and you can't help but be hopeful. this is an example, evidence that it can be done under the right circumstances. so i wonder when you go out in the country and you talk to other people in the business community, what gives you hope about education? why should we be optimistic? >> we should be optimistic because of the american spirit and the american dream is alive and well. you're sitting in a school right now which i think highlights the best and brightest of america.

and this is not an anomaly. there are many places across the country that are demonstrating that you can create the kind of partnership that puts kids first and creates this kind of foundation for education and future wonderful people who are going to create fantastic things in our country. but i am optimistic about the country. i'm optimistic about the education system. i'm not optimistic about the dysfunctionality in washington and we can't allow that to define us. we have to step up. i think we need the majority of people in america who have been very, very silent not to allow the vocal minority on both extremes to dominate the agenda in our country. >> howard, al sharpton is with us. >> i wanted to say i went to tildon high school which beat howard's school all the time but

both schools are close. >> reverend sharpton, i beat -- go ahead. i'm sorry. >> no, but i want to say that i really, really want to point out what howard is saying is so important about the private sector and what he's done. >> i want to get something straight. so, okay. look in the camera, reverend al for a second. and howard, i'm serious here. i want reverend al and howard, so you're telling me that the school that produced howard schultz is shut down and the school that produced al sharpton is shut down. >> and they're neighboring schools. tildon and ken ararcy are both t down. i can't bring my daughters to the high school i went to. he can't. what howard has done in the private sector i think is a great example of what they should do. i work with reverend paul out in seattle who talks about what howard and starbucks really does on a grass roots level. he is not just talking. i give him a lot of credit and i

think we, as a, you know, he went to kenarcy. i went to tildon. barbara streisand went to erasmus. we all aren't the three who have done the best but howard has done well for brooklyn. in honor of what howard does i drink the mocha out of starbucks but i switched to the "morning joe" brew and i can tell progressives it will not make you a right winger. you can drink it. it's safe. >> howard, go ahead and tell us how actually your high school beat reverend al's high school. go ahead. >> i never disagree with a reverend on television, but privately i have to tell him that when i was quarterbacking kenarcy high school we beat tildon. >> ooh. that is something. michael steele is here. >> i want to applaud howard for the leadership that he's bringing to this, because when i was lieutenant governor of maryland one of my areas was education and what i found was that there was this gap between

the private sector and the educational institutions and so for the great effort that howard and other ceos are bringing to this important fight, i think it's very, very significant. however, there are still obstacles. the system is not designed to embrace howard and to have him come to the table in a way that will allow the kind of leadership to emerge in schools like this and broader public school settings. so it's not just the charter school settings. charter schools are public schools. >> right. >> they're a different kind of public school. we need to understand that the resources that follow a child to a typical public school in new york should also follow that child when they come to institutions like this. the added benefit to institutions like this is you have someone like howard and other ceos. we need to broaden that reach for other ceos to touch other schools like tildon and others that are now closed for example. >> howard, starbucks for a long time has tried to be as active as possible in the life of this

country in making america a better place to live. let me ask you, through the years of you being involved in issues like this, are you finding now that this -- the public school system is a bit more open to people like yourself who are trying to reform from the outside? >> you know, i had a meeting yesterday with sheena wright who reverend sharpton might know from the development corporation in harlem. here's woman who has made a tremendous impact in public schools, both in harlem and the bronx. and i think that's an example where we are trying to create the kind of partnership where everyone is leaving their ego at the door and just trying to benefit those kids who, unfortunately, are being left behind. the other thing i would say is that what i'm encouraged by is that more and more business leaders are not only open but looking for opportunities to

leverage their collective assets for the better good of the communities they serve. i think people recognize more than ever, given the federal deficit and given the cuts at the local level that businesses are going to have to step up and i think business leaders are recognizing that they can and should do more. >> john meacham, pulitzer prize winner. and very important man. >> hugely important. i want to know how business is. i know from talking to the head of a huge fast food company years ago, he said he always watched fountain sales to see how the economy was going because people wouldn't buy the drink -- the drive through but would go home to save money. what is the starbucks experience in this recession and what do you think the next 12 months looks like? >> the irony is that we're having a record year this year. despite the economic downturn and the fracture in consumer

confidence, starbucks is really succeeding at every level. i was in europe last week. i had a private meeting with president sarkozy last week. i was humbled to be honest with you about the european crisis. that is whether or not greece gets bailed out is not the issue. it's the under belly of the european economic environment and its connective tissue to the u.s. is significant. what europe needs right now more than anything else is the confidence to the world as a result of the political leaders in washington reaching a long-term debt ceiling deal that would relieve the psychology of the financial crisis in america. and i think more than any other time washington needs to deliver a sense of hope and optimism to the world. the s&p downgraded america's balance sheet not solely because of the economic issues. the s&p downgrade in large part

was because of their lack of confidence in our political leaders and the concern they have today about reaching a consensus not based on ideology but what's based on what's good for the country, good for the world, and most importantly, good for the american people. so this crisis right now is a crisis of leadership and we need our leaders to show up. >> all right. howard schultz, thank you so much. we love the bags. thank you very much for that and again, starting october 4th, customers at starbucks can get these specially marked bags with donors choose stickers. donors choose.org, a great organization, all goes to education. once again, thank you. we'll see you next week. we can't wait to hear all about it. there is much more straight ahead. >> thank you for all you're doing. bye-bye. >> thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. >> we'll be right back from the bronx charter school for excellence. up next, eugene robinson joins

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i get off the plane. i've had a slow week. i've been very low key. you haven't seen me around at all. but it is a great time and a great way for me to end what has been a really special week for me. >> all right. that was chris christie talking about his week of not running for president. time to put the leg back in the skirt. >> what does that even mean? >> whoa. >> mika says you show a little leg? >> no. it's just time to put the leg back in the skirt. you know, when i tell donnie deutsch to be self-aware it's the same thing.

>> yeah. more likely we'll solve the deficit. >> joining us now pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. >> he's in trouble. he's in trouble. >> i hear i've had a bad morning already. >> you have. >> mika is not amused. >> well, your column has been called on this show already "premature" and "out of line" by some of your closest friends. so having said that, i'll now read it. it's called "christie's hefty burden." i don't know if you are responsible for that, but i'll assume not and give you the benefit of the doubt. >> thank you. >> you say this. whether or not he lets himself be persuaded to run for president, chris christie seems to find some way to lose weight. like everyone else, elected officials perform best when they're in optimal health. christie obviously is not. you could argue that this is none of my business, but i disagree. christie's problem with weight

ceased being a private matter when he stepped into the public arena and it's not something you can fail to notice. obesity is a national epidemic whose costs are measured not in dollars and cents but also in lives. politically, i disagree with christie on almost everything. i'll have plenty of opportunities to tell him why. today i'd like to offer him a bit of unsolicited, nonpartisan, sincere advice. eat a salad and take a walk. seriously, eugene? >> well, mika, you kind of skipped a lot of the column. obviously you're not going to read the whole thing. >> i read a lot of the column. >> but i think first of all it wasn't meant to be mean but it was meant to talk about what a devastating but complicated thing obesity can be. and talk about how he has struggled with his weight, how he has acknowledged struggling with it, how he was hospitalized briefly earlier this year for his asthma problems, which he

says are exacerbated by his weight. and so he's struggling with it but at the same time says, you know, i eat too much. and i eat the wrong things. and if you had a friend who was extremely or what they used to call morbidly obese and who said that sequence of things, i think you would tell your friend, you know, come on. let's have a salad. let's take a walk. let's, you know, control the things we can control and start working holistically on what, as you well know, because you're the expert here on diet and nutrition and exercise, you know, obesity is not good for you. >> yeah. i think the bigger question that you're raising is whether or not he can or should run for president. so i would think it's premature since he is saying he is not, but we can continue to have it. i just actually think chris christie is a more viable,

realistic candidate, because of it. i actually think because -- >> because he is overweight? >> no. not because he is overweight. but because he keeps it real. he does know how to address these things. i am positive that this guy if he chose to run for president would deal with this issue head on and would actually reflect what america struggles with, what kids in the school district struggle with, that it is not just a matter of eating a salad and taking a walk, that we have a national crisis on our hands. i'm sure, knowing his personality, he would take that on directly. so it sort of seems like a pot shot. >> well, but, mika, the column doesn't ask the question whether he should run for president and certainly doesn't say that his weight in any way disqualifies him from running for president. quite the contrary. it deals with politics in the first graph and says, leaving politics aside, and again, in the last graph, leaves politics aside. this wasn't a political column. i can write plenty of reasons why i think chris christie is or

is not a viable candidate or a good candidate or would or would not be a good president. this was about obesity. it was about the national crisis. and so i take that head on as you have done in all its complexity. >> yeah. it's really tough to take on. so i'm torn and i did say this when i read it in the 6:00 hour, i was torn about this column because i do like that we're talking about it. i just wish we would talk with him about it and not bring in the concept of his viability for running for president. i think that ultimately it does by bringing it up. >> as the former fat guy on the panel. >> former fat guy. okay. >> i must say that i agree with you that if christie got in the race he would deal with it head on. i agree with eugene. i disagree with almost everything christie says politically but he is a very candid guy. i think he would deal with it. and i think it is a real problem. and i think that as you did in

the earlier hour when we deal with communities like we're in now that economically are challenged it is even more of a problem. i would hope we go beyond diet and talk about location of fast food stores and the economy of how people eat and why because there is a serious problem of obesity that has a lot of social, political ramifications. and i think we should talk about all of it. >> al, he is suffering. i mean, if he came in to talk to these kids who have the highest rate of obesity and asthma in new york city, who would connect more, chris christie or barack obama as a candidate? who would connect more? >> well, i think that barack obama was chubby when he was a kid and has a story. i think the problem is we need the connection, whether it's christie, obama, or both. and i think the problem of obesity is a real problem. >> see, i don't think it rules him out. i think it actually makes him -- >> i don't think it rules him out. it doesn't rule him out because he has the courage to stand up

and talk about it. and i don't agree with him politically at all. >> right. >> but i think that -- >> woe go there. >> he has talked about it. it's not like he said don't bring it up. he has, himself, discussed it. >> he has no problem going anywhere. >> mika, tell me where in the column it says that this is -- this at all implies unfitness to run for president or even raises the question. i just, you know, i certainly didn't intend to do that and i don't think i did. >> is chris christie just a happen to be a potentially -- is chris christie just a random, overweight person that you're writing about this week? >> no, obviously not. >> i mean, come on. the talk this week -- >> we write about people when they become prominent and, yes, when they might run for president but we wrote about race when barack obama became a prominent candidate for president. >> exactly. >> we -- because people become, whether they want to or not, the

sort of poster boy or girl for whatever issue they are seen to embody. >> right. okay. >> it's michael. i think you undercut your focus in your article. certainly by the end of it where you make the comment, you know, eat less, take a walk, those types of things, i think the way people perceive it was this was a little bit of a shot over christie's bow and i think the broader argument that you are making about obesity in the country and about the emphasis that we need to place with our young people especially in dealing with this issue gets lost in translation. it becomes more of a political shot as opposed to a serious conversation about health care, weight loss, etcetera. and i think, also, at the end of the day you kind of -- you kind of were premature in it and sort of putting this out there, because we don't know what christie is going to do.

just a lot of talk right now. and i think it kind of loses the point. >> i am just really glad people are reading it and talking about it because obesity is an epidemic and so if we're going to talk about it let's, you know, talk about it. and if i am misinterpreted, that's the cross i will bear. >> take a walk and read it. >> eugene robinson, you are adorable. >> bye-bye. >> thank you. up next, singer gloria estefan is here live from the bronx charter school for excellence. keep it right here on "morning joe." i don't want healthy skin for a day.

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welcome back to "morning joe." grammy award winning singer and songwriter gloria estefan is out with a new album and the president of the new york city performing center for the arts. good to see you both. >> thank you. >> i don't think a lot of people know this about you. your mother was a school teacher for most of her life. >> yes, she was. >> she had a ph.d in education and her own kindergarten in cuba and when she came to miami she

had to get her teaching credentials done again because they ripped up the papers at the airport and said you're not even taking your education out of this country and she was a public school teacher for many years. i did many a career day and helped her out a lot there. >> what did she impress upon you about education that you've used throughout your life? >> i have to tell you it was very important for her to start very early on. i think by the time kids are 5 there's a lot of already established things in their psyche and in their minds that it's important to get a head start and i saw her plenty of times take money out of her own wallet to bring in arts and crafts and school supplies and things that, unfortunately, she didn't have. >> and that's something teachers are still doing today. >> no doubt about it. we're from the same state, florida. >> yes, indeed. >> florida is my home state, your home state as well. a very high hispanic population in our state and the bad news is, unfortunately, that hispanics right now have the highest dropout rate from 16 to 24 years old.

that is -- what do we need to do? what are we not doing do you think that we need to do better that teachers like your mom were able to do to inspire students to stick it out to the end? >> i think, first of all, we need to give the teachers the tools they need to make education the number one priority. i think they're underpaid. i mean, quite honestly very much so. and when you don't pay people well a lot of really good people are not going to gravitate to that job. and teachers are suffering out there. they're trying to make ends meet, trying to give students the best that they can. and we have to be there for them. the government, the people. for example i had a fundraiser last -- about a year and a half ago where we gave a lot of funds to three different counties so that the teachers could stock this big warehouse full of materials that they needed and could just come and get them free whenever they needed it. >> that is amazing. now, willie and i are your neighbors on the upper west side. in fact, so much so that -- did

you hear this? so reverend al gets caught on the upper west side and they ask, what are you doing here? what do you say? >> visiting joe scarborough. >> exactly. who ever thought i'd be -- one of the thrills of the people there it's the lincoln center. >> amazing. >> you guys being a neighbor of the lincoln center i found out with my own children, you all have created this remarkable partnership with young people where you educate through art. you educate through music. >> it's magic. >> we have a total -- we reach a total of a million students who come to lincoln center or lincoln center comes to them in their schools. and lincoln center, itself, builds the arts into the curriculum across the curriculum and over 80 schools. our most recent initiative has been to get engaged in new charter schools and partnership with new visions. in fact, there are two new charter schools that are within three miles from here in the bronx where i live. so thanks for coming to my burough. >> you're welcome. >> we are actively engaged.

>> specifically what do you do in these three charter schools? >> so we use the active arts as a way to engage kids. we'll go to the school and build the curriculum in preparation for what it's about to do and have the students analyze the performance after. students actually look to four different performances that occur during the course of the year and build their thinking about the arts and their imagination about the arts in anticipation of seeing professional artists come to their auditorium in their space. >> you know, gloria, speaking of imagination and that is the key word, mika and i were doing an interview yesterday and somebody asked the question, well, you all have so many things going. what's been the key for you, for your success? and i said, nobody knows this, but, you know, i was active, i was quarterback, and very active athlete.

but in the summer, when everybody else went to the beach i went in my room. i closed the door. i wrote songs. i recorded music, created -- created this great universe for me that even today helps me solve problems in the work place. can you talk about -- >> exactly. >> -- how arts which have been yanked out of school, what the lincoln center is doing, talk about how important the arts are for our young students even if they never end up being musicians. >> it is mind boggling the first programs that get cut are art and music as if they had nothing to do. math is music. when you teach a student music, you're teaching them counting. you know, everything is either four beats, eight beats. they really, it broad ens their mind and art as well. you can't get people coming up with new ideas if you just lock them down to learning facts or things like that. these are the kinds of things that really expand the mind in kids. >> and they're fundamentals. they're not extras. >> yes they are.

>> it's frustrating to see the cuts happening in ways that they are when you cut something so fundamental that it was clearly fundamental to your growth intellectually. >> yet, reverend sharpton, you hear in washington almost every day when they talk about education, well we can trim around the edges -- gym class, art, things like that. that's why it is so critical that these programs can supplement what's happening in the schools. >> i think it is very effective. i think what gloria is saying is so important because music, itself, does teach math, the count, that students would get in music that they may not get otherwise as well. the memorizing of lyrics. i'm always amazed when i meet a lot of the kids that can tell you verbatim every lyric in a hip hop song right. >> but don't know history. you transfer that over, so really cutting these programs is really hand capping a lot of the educational development. i think she is absolutely right about that. >> also the physical. when i was a kid we had the presidential fitness test.

when you cut physical education from a student, not only is that a great time to blow off steam but it keeps their bodies fit. and we're heading down hill big time by cutting these programs. >> you know, the thing is, when you -- we always talk on this show about being competitive globally. this is the one thing that you the united states of america does so well. in fact, the lincoln center has been asked by china to go over and basically help them develop arts because they understand we are -- have been a creative culture because of the arts. >> joe, this is absolutely amazing. when we go to china and we see what their scores are in math and english, which are astonishing, when we compliment them on their scores, they say, but we have to do more of what americans do because our students are learning by rote and they don't bring the imagination and creativity that will lead to software development, that will lead to

new industries. >> exactly. >> we've got to change and become more like you. so isn't it ironic that at the very time the chinese are saying, we have to become more like americans, and introduce creativity and imagination into our curriculum, we are losing it by virtue of having the arts diminished in our schools. >> no doubt about it. mika, we talked about it all the time. >> absolutely. >> the chinese are investing infrastructure. we're cutting infrastructure. while they're investing in education we're cutting education. while they're investing in the arts, we're now cutting the arts. >> we're missing our nose in front of our face on so many levels with this. and that's the most important point especially given what's happening at the lincoln center. you know, i was watching way too early this morning. >> yes. >> very popular. >> every morning. >> new show. >> mika didn't even know it was on until a week ago. >> willie showed this video of michelle obama. what was she doing? >> she was at target shopping. >> michelle obama. >> indeed. >> what was she doing there?

>> only one thing could drive her to target. i know what she was buying. >> i wish. i hope so. >> i can't say what is in the bag but i think it might be 32 dozen cds. >> her blouse matches my cover. >> there you go. exactly. ms. little havana. you cut a deal with target to make this happen. >> yes we did. what way to deliver music to anybody? all the retailers are out. the new technologies have changed the business completely. you have to learn to think out of the box and that is what education helps do you, adapt and adjust to the changing times. and i figure if people are going to be at target getting other stuff, other things, let me deliver the music there and also on i-tunes for downloading though they don't need to buy it to download it. that's the way things are. but they've come through with a lot of promo. i've been with them when i put out my children's books and they've been there every step of the way. >> great. >> a cool partnership on the album working with farell.

>> oh, yes. amazing and so creative. we really clicked. he is so musical. he came to me with this idea. he wrote miss little havana and said this is you. i want to do this project. we just -- everything just unfolded so naturally it was fantastic. >> and the first album in eight years. >> so great to hear you again. >> thank you so much. >> what is next at the lincoln center? we've got an exciting season ahead. the new york philharmonic and metropolitan opera, chamber music society, film society, jazz at lincoln center are all opening their full seasons so we couldn't be more excited. >> all right. the album miss little havana, gloria estefan, thank you so much. thank you as well for everything. we loft lincoln center. up next, simon hobbs. you're watching "morning joe" live from the bronx charter school for excellence. ♪

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welcome back. we're live at the bronx charter school for excellence. we'll send it back to manhattan where we find simon hobbs at the new york stock exchange. good morning. >> good morning. if you use a debit card it looks like your bank charges are coming your way according to "the wall street journal" this morning. if you use your debit card today the merchant that you use it with will pay your bank $44 on average but from saturday new rules come in which will cap what the banks can charge the merchants at 22 cents so the banks say, look. we'll lose $6 billion a year and as a result bank of america in a leaked memo says from the new year it is going to charge all customers that use their debit card $5 a month and the other banks really are likely to follow suit. we've got wells fargo trialing a

$3 a month charge as is jp morgan. it is really going to add to the concerns that people are being nickelled and dimed by the banks which at the height of the crisis the taxpayers saved. looking at a lower open today. still some trouble in europe. of course we're coming to the end of a real bad quarter. a lot of investors licking their wounds. the s&p over the last three months has lost 12%. back to you. >> wow. that's an incredible figure. now we're getting hit with 60 bucks a month from bank america. we'll have more from the bronx charter school for excellence when we come back on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] your hard work has paid off. and you want to pass along as much as possible to future generations. at northern trust, we know what works and what doesn't. as one of the nation's largest wealth managers, we can help you manage the complexities of transferring wealth. seeking to minimize taxes while helping maximize what's passed along.

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trade commission free for 60 days when you open an account. what a remarkable, remarkable day. >> it's been a good day. >> what a remarkable school. >> beautiful school. did you follow the rules? >> no, none of that. but the kids do. >> thank god. >> i don't. that's why i'm the red hot mess i am. what have you learned today?

>> here's what i learned, that gloria estefan's miss little havana title song, number one on the billboard dance chart. >> really. >> yeah. >> yes. >> anything? >> i was going to say thank you to msnbc, "morning joe" and starbucks for giving us this opportunity to shine and that we need money for our facilities. >> there you go. >> you can do it through donors choose.org, right, willie? >> yes. they just bought a new facility where they're going to house the middle school for bronx charter school for excellence and they certainly need some money. i learned how heartening it toss learn there are people like charlene reed on the front lines of education. we can do this as a country. thank you, charlene. >> i learned that right here in the heart of the bronx there is at least one tigers fan. where is he? there he is. >> gloria? >> well, i relearned that as usual it takes people with great ideas to do something and push

things to a new level so congratulations. >> i like your idea for a music school in miami. >> oh, yes. i learned there is no substitute for an inspired principal and a great teaching staff. >> we need more money here for this school in the bronx and by coming here i learned that michael steele is off beat and joe has a musical background. >> i learned the art room rules. >> yeah? >> my favorite one of which is remain seated at all times. >> go sit down. thank you. all right. >> raise your hand to ask a question. >> exactly. raise your hand and don't speak unless the teacher calls on you. she is not calling on you right now. thank you so much, everyone, for having us here. a great audience. >> thank you. >> a great school.