here we go. another, 28 this year, here we go. >> here we go, all right. that's going to do it for us. i am dylan ratigan. up next, a little "hardball" with our friend and neighbor, chris matthews. attacking al qaeda. let's play "hardball." good afternoon. i'm chris matthews in washington -- actually, i'm in new york. leading off tonight, no country for old men. another victory in the war on terrorist, this time in yemen. the united states killed anwar al awlaki and a colleague who edited al qaeda's online magazine. awlaki has been linked to numerous incidents, including the underwear bomber and the murderous assault at ft. hood. along with the killing of osama bin laden, today's drone strike in yemen makes it that much more difficult for republicans to

credibly call the president weak on terrorism. also, a new poll shows that most people still blame president bush for the awful economy. but bush isn't on the ballot next november. president obama is. looks like it's time for a new strategy. plus, jersey sore. amid all the talk of chris christie getting in the race comes word today that the governor doesn't really get along with the big-name democrats in his state. senator frank lautenberg calls him the king of liars. president obama genuined our colleague, michael smerconish, on his radio show today. michael smerconish joins us later. finally, let me finish tonight with a night millions say they'll never forget. we start with another victory for president obama on the war on terrorism. edward collins is a terrorist analyst. how did we get him? >> we got him because of the

fact after months of tracking this individual, after months of firing missiles at him fruitlessly, we got the right opportunity. there was a meeting that was taking place, it was not near a major populated zone, there wasn't the threat of civilian casualties, and it worked out. it was the right time and the right place. but there was a lot of work and there were a lot of failed efforts that led into this. >> how safer are we today, because we got him? >> well, here's the problem. anwar al awlaki didn't have a official title. he wasn't the leader, he wasn't the deputy leader. he was an adviser. so he assisted with recruiting westerners, okay, but he was about a military official. he's not a bomb maker. unfortunately, as far as al qaeda and yemen goes, they have pretty much the same military capabilities today as they did yesterday. it's more of a long-term thing. >> wait a minute, let's get this thing straight. is he operations or is he propaganda? >> look, he's to a small disagree operations, to a large degree, propaganda. this is somebody who is known as the godfather of homegrown

terrorism, of contemporary, homegrown terrorism. he's far more valuable in terms of recruiting lone wolves and homegrown extremists than he is as a military official within or in support of aqap. >> so basically al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, this guy goes, gets on the air, gets on the internet, and stirs up people who may possibly be leaning against u.s. policy in the mideast, turns them into radicals. >> they see him as a rock star. the guy's out in ft. dix in new jersey, they were listening to anwar al awlaki on their car stereo system while they were pointing out various targets and saying, this the guy, this guy knows how to do it. we need to follow exactly what this guy is telling us to do. >> looks like an enemy in the field today. today, the president said that the death of awlaki was a significant milestone in the broader effort to defeat al qaeda and its affiliates. let's watch the president. >> the death of awlaki is a major blow to al qaeda's most active operational affiliate. but make no mistake.

this is further proof that al qaeda and its affiliates will find no safe haven anywhere in the world. working with yemen and our other allies and partners, we will be determined, we will be deliberate, we will be relentless, we will be resolute in our commitment to destroy terrorist networks that aim to kill americans. >> let me go to richard wolffe. richard, you know, it reminds me, back in the bush era, which seems like a long time, thank god, that bush was always saying things in his strange way, i'm not going to think a lot about getting bin laden, it never occurs to me, here's the guy he swore he was going to get the friday after 9/11. he tried to pretend that they weren't really worth going after. that we had more important things to go after in iraq. this president seems to be targeted towards getting the destruction of al qaeda accomplished. >> right. and look, i think george bush was sincere about wanting to get

bin laden. obviously, they diverge e ed themselves into iraq. but intentions count. there are key markers here that really demolish the republican line about this president that he doesn't have a policy or he's weak or he's incompetent or he apologizes for america around the world. these kind of moments bring home how focused he has been on what he said he would do, which is to go after the coalition of al qaeda and these splinter groups, which have proved so effective. >> not exactly, to use the wondrously ingenious phrase of sarah palin, palling around with terrorists, is it it? >> not exactly. >> he's killing them. >> i'm sure you'll have people say these things, but for reasonable voters in the middle, swing independent voters, they're going to hear that stuff. newt gingrich is not going to stop saying this stuff, or sarah

palin, and they're going to see that disconnect between what the president has actually done and this caricature that republicans have where this president doesn't know what he's doing, isn't up to the job, has no idea -- i mean, look at the arab spring. they're going after the arab spring saying he doesn't know what he's doing, mubarak is gone, al qaeda's leadership is gone. america can actually rest a little bit easier. still got a long way to go, but it's still a much safer position and this president can claim a big chunk of the credit for it. >> how big a mission accomplished banner would bush have for this baby? anyway, here's what former state department official had to say about president obama's foreign policy record. aaron david miller advised six different secretaries of state on middle east policy, most recently colin powell. well, he told politico today, "the president has essentially morphed into a much less reckless and ideological version of bush 43. his policies on iraq, afghanistan, gitmo, iran, even patriot act issues resemble much more the pragmatic george w.

bush of 2007/2008 than the earlier lone ranger version." this doesn't bother me a bit, as an analyst observer. what you're saying is as bush w. became more aware of reality as he got toward the end of his term, as he fell less under the influence of cheney, he began to become much better as a president and a leader. obama's more like him. >> yeah. look, obama really has gone aggressively after al qaeda. no one can argue with that. if anything, you could say that this is overly aggressive. we're going after people with missile strikes. but i think what ron paul and i think some others have gotten wrong here is the idea that just because he's an american citizen, we shouldn't be firing missiles at him. this is someone who declared war against the united states of america, who openly broadcast -- >> wait a minute, ron paul, talk about being out to lunch. you mean if you go join the nazi army and you're fighting in the army against us with the ss and you get killed in action, that's somehow wrong? you need to be given a bill or particulars or whatever? >> yeah, there's no mystery

here. >> miranda rights. what are you talking about? >> there's no mystery here. this is someone who went on video and said, i want to kill americans. i want other people to kill americans. as many as possible. that is declaring war against the united states. if you do something like that, if you make yourself into a clear and present threat to u.s. national security, i'm not sure what your argument is, that that's an assassination. >> let's take a look at -- here's several republican candidates today who were out there praising the action. mitt romney call eed it a major victory. here's newt gingrich this morning defending the use of lethal force against anwar al awlaki, who was an american citizen. let's watch. >> american citizens engage in war against the united states are legitimate targets and i think it was an appropriate and correct thing to execute him. >> so they give up the right to due process? >> absolutely -- they got due process. the president signed an order the kill them. that was due process. i think president obama did the right thing and i praise him for having had the courage to stand up and defend america against

somebody who was clearly engaged in trial to kill americans. >> by the way, that's newt talk. execution, assassinate, that's ridiculous. he shot an enemy in the field. that's what the president did. anyway, it's newt screwing up things with his awful language. anyway, ron paul, as i just said, criticized the action. let's give paul his time in court here. let's listen to ron paul criticize the action. >> this really is a huge deal, an andrea. after killing bin laden, i think awlaki was really the number two target. no one was more important to protecting the united states. it wasn't just him being an inspiration -- >> okay, that was not ron paul. let's go to this question. it seems to me if someone's in the field, their operations, they're doing operations, not just propaganda, it seems to me you've got a good case to bring them down. >> yeah, look, the individual who was killed alongside him, the other american, sameer chan, published an article in al qaeda's magazine "why i turned trader to america." other articles in that magazine that he authored included "how to build a bomb in the kitchen

of your mom." when you start publishing material like that, when you start encouraging terrorist attacks, when you align yourselves with people that are building underwear bombs and trying to bring down u.s. airliners, i don't see where the argument is that you have lack due process. you have identified yourself as an enemy combatant. i mean, it's pretty clear. >> i guess ron paul should say we should have one of these weird little third world trials in absentiabsentia, where you t person before you target them. >> this is someone who has acknowledged the role. there's no question about the guilt. >> now back to richard. it looks -- let me -- i'll go to richard first. it seems like the cia is doing its job under petraeus, following up on the excellent work done by leon panetta. >> it is the cia, but you've also got to have leadership there. and what the president's got, especially in john brennan, is someone who has the authority and the focus to follow through.

there has been a concerted effort under john brennan in the white house to demolish these leaders as they emerge, to use unprecedented numbers of drone attacks. and it's been successful. you can see that in the intelligence they picked up around bin laden. these people were trying to keep low cover, not being -- not coming out into the open. it hampered them operationally and ultimately led to their demise. not just where we saw around the al qaeda leadership itself, but also these splinter groups. and so, you know, if you look at what the president said he would do in trying to get elected, this fits that. and people can say whether they, you know, like his policy on israel or not, they can pick holes in it, but at least he did what he said he would do when it came to al qaeda. >> last word from you, evan, they can run, they can hide. can they hide anymore? >> well, you know, a lot of al qaeda leaders have been killed in the last year. some very, very senior people. number one, the number three, the number two from what we know right now is on the run, is

desperately trying to avoid u.s. drone strikes. how long can he survive? not that long. the problem is that al qaeda is switching from being an organization to being an ideolo ideology. and when you have an ideology, when you have a decentralized unit like this, you don't need november leaders anymore. anwar al awlaki's recordings will live on the internet for years to come. >> does that mean no more big operations like 9/11? >> that's the hope. that's the hope. >> let's not jinx it. let's not make bragging points about the future. thank you so much, evan kohlmann, for coming on. and thank you, as always, richard wolffe, on excellent commentary on a big, good day for america. up next, a new poll shows most americans still blame the bad economy on bush. that's good for president obama, but how much longer can he count on that, since bush is probably not going to run against him next time. just kidding. this is "hardball," only on msnbc.

the obama administration bid farewell today to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. the great admiral mike mullen. mullen's ending a 43-year military career, one that will go down in history. he presided over the end of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy and was outspoken about his suspicions that the pakistani government has terrorist links. admiral mullen's successor is army general martin dempsey. we'll be right back. maybe not. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit. [ male announcer ] get five dollars in money-saving coupons at v8juice.com. whether you're an allstate customer or not. all you have to do is call. [ female announcer ] call allstate now and you'll get a free lifetime membership in good hands roadside assistance. [ dennis ] shop less. get more. make one call to an allstate agent.

she won't eat eggs without hot sauce. she has kind of funny looking toes. she's always touching my hair. and she does this dancing finger thing. [ male announcer ] with advanced technology from ge, now doctors can diagnose diseases like breast cancer on a cellular level. so that women, like kristy's mom, can get personalized treatment that's as unique as she is. [ kristy ] she's definitely not like other moms. yeah, my mom is pretty weird. ♪

welcome back. here's the hot potato question. who's responsible for the struggling economy? president obama or the man he inherited this whole mess from? george w. bush. well, here's vice president biden's somewhat surprising take on that question. let's listen. >> reason though 50-some percent of the american people think the economy tanked because of the last administration, that's not

relevant. what's relevant is, we're in charge. it's gotten better, but it hasn't gotten good enough. so i don't blame them for being mad. we're in charge. so they're angry. >> "we're in charge." the poll he's referring to is the new one from cnn. when asked who's responsible for the current economy, a majority of americans, 52%, say president bush and the republicans. hear that? 52% say bush and the republicans. just 32% say president obama and the democrats. that's an allocation of blame about the same as this time last year. it's holding. but bush isn't on the ballot, i would argue, next fall, and it looks like it might be a time to change the argument. alex wagner is an msnbc political analyst and nia-malika henderson covers politics for "the washington post." ladies, thank you for coming on tonight. it seems to me a most to the point question about american politics. we know the economy's terrible, we know people are very angry about it. everyone is, of every age group. the question is, what's the smart, intelligent thing for this president to say as he attempts to fix it?

is he smart to say it's bush's fault, or what joe biden is starting to say now, the vice president, look, we're in charge now, we hope it gets better, we're not going to blame it on the past? >> look, i think biden is taking the argument that we opened up the church doors, there was a baby on our doorstep. it's not our baby, but we're going to take care of the baby. which is effect liively what he arguing for in terms of the economy. it is their responsibility to shepherd it to a better place. but how long is the american going to give them? thus far the administration has been reliant on this talking point, it took a long time to get into it, it's going to take a long time to get out of it. the american public's patience is understandably growing thin, i would image. >> what do you think of that, nia? i was arguing or thinking about arguing that one thing the president ought to do is just say, look, you know when you do a skiing event, they hold up the sign, ten-point difficulty. i mean, it has been a very high difficulty the last three years. is he smart to top saying it was hard, and smart to start saying,

i'm turning things around, don't blame the other guys, blame me. >> you can see them getting away from that argument. americans have been feeling economic pain for years and years and years. i talk people about downturn in businesses and they immediately say, oh, well, it's the president's policies. but if you dig a little deeper, they say, this downturn has been going on for quite some time. they're getting away from the blame game. they're trying to have a narrative where he can say that he's turning things around. they got this american jobs act. he's obviously out on the campaign trail. i talked to some campaign folks just before i got on the air, and they think that that's going to give him some momentum. give him something to argue. and then, you know, at the same time, he can sort of point to the republicans and also say that they aren't doing anything. that not only did they sort of implicitly get us into this mess, but now they're also being obstructionists as he's trying to create the jobs. so they feel like now they're in a pretty good place. but, again, we don't know what's going to happen with this american jobs act. we don't know if come 2012 he's going to be able to run on a trend of things are getting

better. >> and if they had a smart political organization, i mean the entire democratic party, they would have over people saying it was bush's fault. not having the president say it. that's a message that's better delivered by third parties. you get your cabinet maybe to say it. get members of congress to say it and governors to say it. look what this guy inherited, don't blame him. and obama can come out and say, this is what we're doing, we're doing our best. but they don't have an organized political structure. that's what i find at fault. here's vice president biden on the economy, the 2012 election, and voter anger. let's listen. >> right now, understandably, totally legitimate, this is a referendum on obama and biden, the nature and the state of the economy. it's soon going to be a choice. it's soon going to be a choice. >> well, let me start with you, nia. you report out there with the post. and here's the question. the president had a very sharp day in terms of execution. in fact, they caught a bad guy, killed a couple of them who were out to get out, al awlaki, and the question of palling around with terrorists reminded me

of -- we believe that was, of course, sarah palin. let me tell you something that bachmann said today. she said the president's responsible for the fact that the democrats were the one that approved the politically correct loans. let's listen to her. this is going way back to the democrats in congress. last night in north carolina, michele bachmann laid the blame for the whole economic meltdown on the government and politically correct loans given by democrats. let's listen. >> well, we all know that it was the government that caused this meltdown. because the government, through freddie and fannie, through keeping artificially low interest rates, through pushing the federal government, pushing the toxic subprime mortgages, through the community reinvestment act, forcing banks to make politically correct loans, the system was gamed by the federal government that led to the disastrous meltdown, that led ultimately in september of 2008 to the terrible consequences that we are still

dealing with today in our economy. >> you know, that's just old-time religion there. i mean, it's not fact. everybody knows wall street is guilty. everybody knows wall street overleveraged. they know that they're the ones that gave all these credibles to these securities. they did it. with the default swaps and all that stuff. >> you know, the cra, the community reinvestment act, is sort of implicating it as this sort of genesis -- >> the poor people did it. >> yeah, what it is is effectively class warfare. some conservative economists are actually going to argue that the cra played a pivotal role in bringing down -- in the subprime mortgage scandal. the issue, though, with michele bachmann and sort of her attribution is she completely ignores the fast and loose regulatory environment that led to financial institutions investmenting in exotic derivatives. i mean, it's just a gross mischaracterization, and a gross oversimplification. >> why is she -- i'm sorry, nia, explain the politics of why someone like bachmann out there, well, it's pretty obvious, i'm going to ask an obvious question. why does she hold harmless wall street?

not the rich, not the corporations, not new york, nobody did anything wrong up here. it's those little poor people that goth those loans to buy houses that they shouldn't have. they were too ambitious to genuine the american dream. blame them. >> and she fails to mention that she, of course, got a loan from fannie and freddie for her own very lavish home. but this is an old narrative from the republicans. this whole idea that the liberals are pandering to the poor and it's the poor people's fault that the economy is in such dire straits, because they always have their hands out. you heard, of course, for instance, newt gingrich talking about president obama being the greatest food stamp president ever. so there has been that rhetoric. i mean, even going back to president reagan, who talked about welfare queens and that whole imagery. so she's just playing into that whole narrative that has been around for a long time. and it's its own version of class warfare. >> i thought it was fixion that expanded the food stamp program? i thought it was bob dole that

fought for that for the farmers. is my history that off? >> look, history -- >> affirmative action -- >> if you talk about class warfare, this narrative of attacking the poor and the struggling and disenfranchised are -- >> go back to the past, newt. thank you very much, alex wagner. thank you, nia-malika henderson of "the washington post." up next, suspicions confirmed department. what do tea partyers think is the most important amendment in the bill of rights, think about it. think about the one they really love. think about that in the sideshow. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. ♪ sent her back to college for her sophomore year ♪

♪ co-signed her credit card -- "buy books, not beer!" ♪ but the second that she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for her whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪

♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. now this...will work. [ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. just like you. go national. go like a pro.

back to "hardball." now for the sideshow.

first up, when you think of the bill of rights, what's the one amendment that you think's most central to what the country stands for? well, for illinois republican joe walsh, no surprise, it's not freedom of speech. which one tops the list for him? that would be amendment number two, the right to keep and bear arms. advocating for his state to pass a concealed/carry law, walsh explained to his audience of tea partyers earlier this week, "there's no issue when it comes to freedom that matters more than this. like the second amendment, the most important amendment in the bill of rights is the second amendment. it protects every other amendment. it is the last line of defense between us and our government." does mr. walsh really believe that his owning a gun has any positive influence on the success of our democracy? this is delusional. next up, operation bargain hunt. that was a feed taken on by the first lady yesterday afternoon, as she went out to pick up a few things at a nearby target. with a baseball cap and a pair of sunglasses, looks like she and her plains clothesed

security detail were able to pull it off. what about the president, here's what he had to say during his interview with michael smerconish earlier today. >> i don't even want to shop, all i want to do is take a walk, baa as she reminds me, nothing i do is undercover. she gets embarrassed when she goes out with me, because there's an ambulance and a caboose and a dogsled. >> the president is talking in code about the motorcade of security vehicles that goes wherever he goes as president. and next up, prepare for an awkward handshake this night. gop front-runner mitt romney's booked to speak at next month's values voters summit down in washington. the program is all set. and as it stands now, there would be more than a little friction between romney and the speaker who will follow him. that would be the director of issues analysis for the american family association, brian fisher. turns out he has a long history of bashing the candidate's mormon faith. let's listen to his comments from earlier this week. >> mormonism is not an orthodox

christian faith. it's just not. it was very clear that the founding fathers did not intend to preserve automatically religious liberty for nonchristian faiths. so when mormonism came along, they practiced polygamy. they believed in polygamy, just like muslims to today. >> well, the only person who ought to be impaiembarrassed by statement is the man who made that statement. religious liberty in this country is religious liberty. simple. up next, republicans love chris christie because he's a tough guy, but that's exactly why so many democrats in new jersey actually don't like him that much. senator frank lautenberg actually calls him the king of liars and he's coming theory talk about it. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ doug ] i want to focus on innovation. but my data is doubling. and my servers are maxed out. [ male announcer ] with efficient i.t. solutions from dell, doug can shift up to 50% of his technology spend to innovation. so his company runs better, and so does doug. dell. the power to do more. and here's what we did today:

supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. i've tried it. but nothing helped me beat my back pain. then i tried salonpas. it's powerful relief that works at the site of pain and lasts up to 12 hours. salonpas. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses.

if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you up to thousands of dollars. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp. when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, i can keep my own doctor and choose my own hospital. and i don't need a referral to see a specialist. as with all medicare supplement plans, and help pay for what medicare doesn't. call this toll-free number now...

put a bow on it. the end of the market's worst quarters since the depths of the financial crisis in 2008 is over. today, no help. the dow plunging 240 points. the s&p 500 sinking 28 and the nasdaq down 65. if you're squeamish, you better not look. these are the results for the quarter. all the major averages plunging, more than 10%. these were the laggards on the dow. big names looking at some big declines over the past three months. there were a few bright spots. comfort food for investors. ibm, in fact, now the world's most second valuable tech company, bumping microsoft to third place. we've got a sputtering global economy, a european debt debacle, and that u.s. credit downgrade back in early august. and quickly, i want to the mention kodak, plunging nearly 60% today on rumors that was preparing to file for bankruptcy. it has since flatly denied those rumors. that's it from cnbc, we're first

in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." if you're looking for leadership in america, you know you're not going to find it in the oval office. >> welcome back to "hardball." it's getting hotter. that was new jersey governor chris christie in louisiana last night, hinting at his own consideration of running for president. this afternoon, the associated press reports that we've been hearing for days, confirming, he is thinking about a run, and may make up his mind soon. that's from the governor, close to the governor. his tough talk, by the way, has won his republican support around the country, praise, and a lot of national attention. but democrats in new jersey itself are telling a different story. we've got two of them with us tonight, this evening. senator frank lautenberg from new jersey and frank palone of new jersey. i want to read something here, "the new york times" reports

today, i know you've read, that the two of you have a chilly relationship, you and governor christie. the story says that the governor's referred to you as so out of touch and so partisan and that you blow hot air. that's his description of your work. and that you called him or said that he's the king of liars. are those quotes accurate, senator? >> well, his quote about me is one of more generous ones, i'll tell you that. >> about yours about him? >> he persists in lying himself. he lied to the head of our general assembly. he lied to our speaker, our president of the senate, when during a snowstorm he said he was in touch regularly. and the fellow said he never heard from him. he lied to the firefighters when he said the last thing he would do, furthest thing from the truth, would be to fool around with their pension plan. and the first thing he did when he was elected is make the adjustments that really hurt them. so he's a persistent liar and the opportunity came to respond to him and i called him the king

of the group. >> let's go to congressman frank palone, he's with me right now. i don't understand this. you've had hurricane irene up here. normally people get together, even if they don't agree politically, if there's a crisis. did you even get together with him then? was there any sort of powwow, getting together with the governor? >> we did work together during hurricane irene and afterwards, with fema and the state and local governments. i think it worked out very well. >> did you sit in the room with this guy? >> we traveled with him when president obama came to new jersey. >> but that's a photo op? >> it was more than a photo op. i think there was a lot of cooperation during and after the hurricane. >> what do you think of him as a governance person? is he the kind of a guy -- let's get back to senator lautenberg. is he the kind of person that you can imagine bringing the country together politically? >> it's hard to think of that with his bullying temperament. he calls people names freely. he's abusive to women. he called one a jerk, another

one a liar, another one needed a baseball bat brought to her. that's not the kind of language we want to hear from someone who's going to try and bring the country together when, in fact, he's a divide -- strictly a divider. >> congressman together with the democrats to accomplish a goal of improving the economy and creating jobs. i mean, our unemployment is higher than the national. you know, he merely promises he's going to lower property taxes, he was going to save our schools and improve our schools, and every one of those things, frankly, is getting worse. and i just wish he would make this decision, chris, about whether to run, because new jersey has a lot of problems, which he needs to address or, you know, have to be addressed, whether he's there or not. >> why is he popular in the republican chat world right now? the chat room, where the country seems to be focused on this guy, congressman. why? >> i think they like the fact that he, you know, is kind of a bully and i guess they say, you know, doesn't hesitate to insult people and that type of thing, but i don't think that's

helpful. i agree with senator lautenberg. you need somebody to bring sides together. democrats and republicans together. and that hasn't happened in new jersey. and i think he's the last person that would accomplish that nationally. >> let's look at the poll. christie's approval rating is now up to 54%, pretty healthy, way above the president's. 35, disapproval. if he's so unhelpful to be around and so uncheerful a presence, why is he up there at 54%? >> he is a good speaker. but the tales that he tells about cutting and reforming things hasn't touched a lot of people outside of the state. but it's a miserable knife that he carries, when he wants to cut, and it affects people's living and he's -- it's mean-spirited. and so, he's not a bad person, but he's -- his temperament is not that of a winner and very, frankly, i think the more that people get to know about him across the country, they'll

think differently about him. >> well, you're the veteran senator in this state, the senior senator, senator lautenberg, and everybody respects you, and i want to know how many times has he called you for cooperation in the last two years you've been in office? does he ever call up and say, let's get together for lunch or dinner or a drink and say, let's see how we can work together? does he ever do that? >> no, i've never got a call from him. in fact, one time at a delegation meeting i offered to give him my phone number, because i thought he must have lost it, i never hear from him. that's been the situation from the beginning. he doesn't mind making a phone call to share a problem or encourage us to work harder. you saw what he said in the article. >> i know. >> that his people said that he's closer to obama, and he go direct, and he doesn't have to talk to us. meanwhile, he's gone retail instead of wholesale and tried to resolve a debt that's owed to the federal government. wrote in lawyers, cost them over $1 million so far. >> yeah, he hires a lobbying

firm rather than working through the delegation. that's an odd way to do business. >> well, i thought so, because they're going to have to come to me. i'm on the transportation committee. and i'm chairman of the committee that does transportation work. so, i want to work for the state of new jersey. but he makes it impossible to do it jointly. >> it is odd, congressman, to go hire a law firm that hires former senators to come and talk to current senator who is actually have power. let me ask you about the great conundrum. frank pallone, i'm going to ask you a political question. the american people want congress and the public and the government to get along. they want action. they're tired of this the bickering, this pinging back and forth, this stupid talk. and they want something done. now, why do they like a guy who's so awful, who uses terrible language, yells at callers on call-in shows, uses terrible language, treats people at scum sometimes, but he's perfect for the country to run it. it doesn't make any sense? >> it doesn't.

i think as was mentioned by the senator, you're looking at a republican primary where there's not some very good choices out there. and i think to some republicans, they're looking for another person, a new face, whatever. >> but why would they want a grouch if they want somebody to get along with everybody? >> well, i don't think the right wing does want to get along. i think it's the people in the middle, the more moderate republicans, you know, that would like to work with the democrats and i don't think christie's that kind of a person. >> they don't know what kind of a bully is. he's thrown people out of meetings, he's used all kinds of insults. he's not a peacemaker, nor is he a mover on a bipartisan basis. >> senator, last question to you. is this a striptease that's going to end with nothing, or is he actually going to be talked into running for president? >> well, i think it's a tease, and i think that before he leaves the state of new jersey and leaves that seat open, where we're in such deep debt, where we're in such deep trouble, that if he's going to run for the

president's job, then he ought to make plans to leave the governorship to someone who's going to be active. >> do you think he's running? >> i don't know, but i'll tell you, he should make a decision, because the longer this goes on, i don't think it helps the state. he's got to get back to business. >> nobody knows. thank you very much, frank lautenberg and senator frank pallone. thanks very much for coming on. coming up, michael smerconish interviewed president obama on his radio show. we'll see what he learned from his inside conversation today with his friend, the president. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar.

the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. texas governor rick perry promised a major policy speech today, but what he delivered had very few policies ideas, and instead was a broadside against ronald republican mitt romney and president obama. let's listen to him. >> as republican voters decide who's going to be best suited

for this country and to take it in a new direction by stopping the spending spree and the scraping of obama care, i'm confident that we're going to choose a nominee that has governed with conservative principles. not one who's health care policies paved the way for obama care. >> i think the word, governor, is scrapping -- the speechwriter put in there, with trying to talk to the speechwriter. anyway, perry plans to be more aggressive against president obama and against romney, of course, as he gears up for the big debate in 11 days. we'll be right back. so i took my heartburn pill and some antacids. we're having mexican tonight, so another pill then? unless we eat later, then pill later?

if i get a snack now, pill now? skip the snack, pill later... late dinner, pill now? aghh i've got heartburn in my head. [ male announcer ] stop the madness of treating frequent heartburn. it's simple with prilosec otc. one pill a day. twenty-four hours. zero heartburn. no heartburn in the first place. great. luck? i don't trade on luck. i trade on fundamentals. analysis. information. i trade on tradearchitect. this is web-based trading, re-visualized. streaming, real-time quotes. earnings analysis. probability analysis: that's what opportunity looks like. it's all visual. intuitive. and it's available free, wherever the web is. this is how trade strategies are built. tradearchitect. only from td ameritrade. welcome to better trade commission free for 60 days when you open an account.

it is a spectacular deal. show-me-the-carfax. carfax is only for grown-ups. well, then show me the carfax. he doesn't work here. before you buy a used car, get a carfax vehicle history report. see accidents and service reported to carfax and a price based on the car's history. ask your dealer or go to carfax.com. just say, show me the carfax. welcome back to "hardball." president obama spent part of his week reaching out to voters

in florida, north carolina, and colorado. three states he won back in 2008, but now he's struggling to reconnect with voters concerned deeply about the economy. today the president spoke to voters in the rust belt state of pennsylvania, where according to the latest head-to-head matchups in the quinnipiac poll, obama's in a statistical dead heat with mitt romney. rick perry's within striking distance, just six points behind the president. the president spoke with msnbc political analyst and michael smerconish about the economy, the war on terror, and making sure no one is disenfranchised in the upcoming elections. smerconish joins me now along with the comcast network's washington, d.c., bureau chief robert traynham to talk more about the president's interview. here's the president, let's take a look at the questions about voting rights and the 2012 election. let's listen. >> some of these moves in some of the other states that we've seen, trying to make it tougher to vote, restricting ballot access, making it hard on seniors, making it hard on young people, i think that's a big

mistake. and i have made sure that our justice department's taken a look at what's being done across the country to ensure that people aren't being denied access to the franchise. >> michael, let's talk about that. you know, this is going to be, everybody thinks, robert, a very close presidential election next time around. it may not be, it may be a wipeout in either direction, but it looks like it's going to be close. and thereafter the groundwork matters, the election procedures matter, turnout matters. is the president, does he seem to be worried that the republicans in a close election can take it from him by making it harder for older people and minorities to actually vote and get counted? >> well, if it's a game of inches in this election, and i agree with you that it might be, i predicated that question by asking him, are you worried about the goalposts being moved? because, you know, chris, the combination of these things, of requesting voter i.d.s for the first time in certain states or limiting the pre-voting that can take place or look at what the move afoot here in pennsylvania

is. where the president in '08 left with 21 electoral votes, by the new standard, he would have had a net gain of one. and so i think they need to be focussed on these of one. i hadn't heard before that he had asked the justice department to take a look. i'm also not that surprised. >> robert, that whole question gets down to the questions about minority voting and older people voting, and it's a fact, most people in big cities that live in row houses, for example, they don't have driver's licenses, they don't drive cars. my grandparents didn't drive cars most of their life. big city people don't own cars, therefore they don't have government i.d. cards, and therefore they can't vote if you stair making that a requirement. >> what the president and the white house are very concerned about, chris, you know this, is that the african-american vote and senior vote in west philadelphia, in north philadelphia, in detroit michigan, in miami, florida, in norfolk, virginia, this is a numbers game. if in fact minority votes are

disenfranchised or opressed, that means that those people probably would not be able to vote obviously, presumably for the democratic candidate. that's what the white house is concerned about, and rightfully so. >> michael, last point on this. do you think they have any case about corrupt voting? we have that problem a couple years back. is there -- let's be honest here. is there any concern that's real about crooked voting, by phantom voting, people driving around in cars, making sure people aren't voting, that old-style stuff that went on back in the '60s. still going on? >> i think there are always a handful of cases. when you have millions voting there are bowen to be shenanigans, but i've yet to hear a case that warrants the level of overhaul that's americans. here's the president in the interview with you today. he also talked about tax increases for the wealthy. let's take a look.

>> there are wealthy americans who i think are patriots and are willing to do their part as long as, you know, they are knowing that their money is going to close the deficit or for programs that will help make us more competitive. if we make modest adjustments, closing loopholes, making sure the wealthy are paying their fair share, making sure that a guy like warren buffett is paying the same rate as his secretary, with el can stabilize for at least a deck indicate if not more. that's the plan that i put forward. i'm hoping that congress will act on it. >> do you think that's credible, robert, that argument? is that going to sell with middle-income people, that the president is saying if you get the rich to pay their fair share, you can actually get them to do it, because people in congress will agree do it? there's a lot of proposal here, get him to do it. it's got to get it to happen, and then he's got to hope it will close the deficit

significantly. is that pie in the sky? >> absolutely. listen to what he said. he said modest adjustments. that's a nod to 1234e6 people who are skeptical out there, but we know at the end of the day this is not going to pass. the republicans will not allow this type of jobs bill to pass. he's going to be running again the congress basically back like in 1948, saying this is a do-nothing congress, you need to reelect me, so we can clean out the house of representatives and actually get something done. the white house knows that. >> that's the way it looks right now, a harry truman campaign. we'll be debating this monday night, but how he will run, down to the left or in the middle. thank you michael smerconish and michael trainham. maybe the most historic night in the history of sports, you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now.

two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy.

that's good for our country's energy security at liberty mutual, we know how much you count on your car and how much the people in your life count on you. that's why we offer accident forgiveness, man: good job. where your price won't increase due to your first accident. we also offer a hassle-free lifetime repair guarantee, where the repairs made on your car are guaranteed for life or they're on us. these are just two of the valuable features you can expect from liberty mutual. plus, when you insure both your home and car with us,

it could save you time and money. at liberty mutual, we help you move on with your life. so get the insurance responsible drivers like you deserve. looks really good. call us at... or visit your local liberty mutual office, where an agent can help you find the policy that's right for you. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

let me fin tonight. i was out wednesday night with kathleen. we had just seen "money ball." a stunningly subtle movie cowritten by aaron sorkin who more lately wrote "social network." it's about baseball and something really important. what a night to see "money ball" perhaps the most exciting night in the history of the game. we walk into the bethesda night

and head to the tap room and by the time we head off, they're showing three fantastic games all at the same time. there's boston battling for its life with the orioles. there's tampa bay coming out of a nowhere september and taking a last-game leap for the wild card. atlanta is fighting for its life against the philles. the braves had to win because st. louis had already won big that night. i get home in time to see the os win, the first time the red sox blow such a lead. still the sox had a playoff chance if the rays lose. then minutes later all hope is lost as the rays win 8-7 in the 12th inning having overcome a seventh inning lead. the yankees haven't kicked away a game like that since 19 a 53. what a nipgt. in three games this incredible night, there are three ninth-inning comebacks. tonight the playoffs begins texas hosts tampa bay, the yangs

host the tigers. tomorrow four games with st. louis, philadelphia, and arizona and mill walk week. plus the two games in the american league. a month all lies ahead. a team has to win 11 games to be a world champion, but it will be hard to beat what happened this wednesday night as mike dodd put it in this morning's paper, it was the first time in the 17-year run the wild card the teams wore tied for the final playoff game entering game 162, and two teams down to their last strike before coming back. why am i talking about sports on a political show? because this is about america. i can remember, and it wasn't 1,000 years ago, when people talked about baseball not having a future, people talked about it being killed by the excitement of the nfl and by the lightning speed of the knabb. you can forget all that. check the attendance numbers. i check them because when i was growing up you saw the park