cruiseship. banksie is so happy, wagging her tail, doing everything you would want. the only time banksie gets upset is when i go to the mailbox. he stops barking, growling. he didn't want med to see my bank statement. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton, "hardball" starts right now. attacking al qaeda. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm crist matthews in new york. leading off tonight, no country for old men. another victory in the war on terrorist, this time in yemen. the united states killed anwar al awlaki and a colleague who edited al qaeda's online magazine. awlaki has been linked to numerous incidents, including the underwear bomber and the murderous assault at ft. hood. along with the killing of osama bin laden, today's drone strike in yemen makes it that much more

difficult for republicans to credibly call the president weak on terrorism. also, a new poll shows that most people still blame president bush for the awful economy. but bush isn't on the ballot next november. president obama is. looks like it's time for a new strategy. plus, jersey sore. amid all the talk of chris christie getting in the race comes word today that the governor doesn't really get along with the big-name democrats in his state. senator frank lautenberg calls him the king of liars. we'll ask him what he means by that. and mr. president, you're on the air. . . joined our colleague, michael smerconish, on his radio show today. to talk about the economy, and efforts to restrict voting rights. michael smerconish joins us later. finally, let me finish tonight with a night millions say they'll never forget. we start with another victory for president obama on the war on terrorism. edward collins is a terrorist analyst. and richard wolffe is as members nbc analyst. how did we get him? >> we got him because of the fact after months of tracking this individual, after months of firing missiles at him fruitlessly, we got the right

opportunity. there was a meeting that was taking place, it was not near a major populated zone, there wasn't the threat of civilian casualties, and it worked out. it was the right time and the right place. but there was a lot of work and there were a lot of failed efforts that led into this. >> how safer are we today, because we got him? >> well, here's the problem. anwar al awlaki didn't have a official title. he wasn't the leader, he wasn't the deputy leader. he was an adviser. so he assisted with recruiting westerners, okay, but he was not a military official. he's not a bomb maker. unfortunately, as far as al qaeda and yemen goes, they have pretty much the same military capabilities today as they did yesterday. it's more of a long-term thing. it may be more difficult for them -- >> wait a minute, let's get this thing straight. is he operations or is he propaganda? >> look, he's to a small disagree operations, to a large degree, propaganda. this is somebody who is known as the godfather of homegrown terrorism, of contemporary, homegrown terrorism. he's far more valuable in terms

of recruiting lone wolves and homegrown extremists than he is as a military official within or in support of aqap. >> so basically al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, this guy goes, gets on the air, gets on the internet, and stirs up people who may possibly be leaning against u.s. policy in the mideast, turns them into radicals. >> they see him as a rock star. the guy's out in ft. dix in new jersey, who were scoping out terrorist targets, they were listening to anwar al awlaki on their car stereo system while they were pointing out various targets and saying, this the guy, this guy knows how to do it. we need to follow exactly what this guy is telling us to do. >> looks like an enemy in the field today. today, the president said that the death of anwar al awlaki was a significant milestone in the broader effort to defeat al qaeda and its affiliates. let's watch the president. >> the death of awlaki is a major blow to al qaeda's most active operational affiliate. but make no mistake. this is further proof that al qaeda and its affiliates will find no safe haven anywhere in

the world. working with yemen and our other allies and partners, we will be determined, we will be deliberate, we will be relentless, we will be resolute in our commitment to destroy terrorist networks that aim to kill americans. >> let me go to richard wolffe. richard, you know, it reminds me, back in the bush era, which seems like a long time, thank god, that bush was always saying things in his strange way, i'm not going to think a lot about getting bin laden, it never occurs to me, here's the guy he swore he was going to get the friday after 9/11. he tried to pretend that they weren't really worth going after. that we had more important you war to fight in iraq. talk about a long way car effort there. this president seems to be targeted towards getting the destruction of al qaeda accomplished. >> right. and look, i think george bush was sincere about wanting to get bin laden. obviously they diverted themselves into iraq.

but results count, and there's a narrative that this administration can build up, not just about al qaeda but iraq and afghanistan, which is results-based. there are key markers here that really demolish the republican line about this president that he doesn't have a policy or he's weak or he's incompetent or he apologizes for america around the world. these kind of moments bring home how focused he has been on what he said he would do, which is to go after the leadership of al qaeda and these splinter groups, which have proved so effective. >> not exactly, to use the wondrously ingenious phrase of sarah palin, palling around with terrorists, is it it? >> not exactly. >> he's killing them. >> i'm sure you'll have people say these things, but for reasonable voters in the middle, swing independent voters, they've got to pull back into the fold in this election. they're going to hear that stuff. newt gingrich is not going to stop saying this stuff, or sarah palin, and they're going to see that disconnect between what the

president has actually done and this caricature that republicans have where this president doesn't know what he's doing, isn't up to the job, has no idea -- i mean, look at the arab spring. they're going after the arab spring saying he doesn't know what he's doing, mubarak is gone, gadhafi is gone, al qaeda's leadership is gone. america can actually rest a little bit easier. still got a long way to go, but it's still a much safer position and this president can claim a big chunk of the credit for it. >> how big a mission accomplished banner would bush have for this baby? anyway, here's what former state department official had to say about president obama's foreign policy record. aaron david miller advised six different secretaries of state on middle east policy, most recently colin powell. well, he told politico today, "the president has essentially morphed into a much less reckless and ideological version of bush 43. his policies on iraq, afghanistan, gitmo, iran, even patriot act issues resemble much more the pragmatic george w. bush of 2007/2008 than the earlier lone ranger version."

this doesn't bother me a bit, as an analyst/observer. what you're saying is as bush w. became more aware of reality as he got toward the end of his term, as he fell less under the influence of cheney, he began to become much better as a president and a leader. obama's more like him. >> yeah. look, obama really has gone aggressively after al qaeda. no one can argue with that. if anything, you could say that this is overly aggressive. we're going after people with missile strikes. but i think what ron paul and i think some others have gotten wrong here is the idea that just because he's an american citizen, we shouldn't be firing missiles at him. this is someone who declared war against the united states of america, who openly broadcast -- >> wait a minute, ron paul, talk about being out to lunch. you mean if you go join the nazi army and you're fighting in the army against us with the ss and you get killed in action, that's somehow wrong? you need to be given a bill of particulars or whatever? miranda rights? >> yeah, there's no mystery here. >> miranda rights.

what are you talking about? >> there's no mystery here. this is someone who went on video and said, i want to kill americans. i want other people to kill americans. as many as possible. that is declaring war against the united states. if you do something like that, if you make yourself into a clear and present threat to u.s. national security, i'm not sure what your argument is, that that's an assassination. >> let's take a look at -- here's several republican candidates today who were out there praising the action. mitt romney called it a major victory. rick perry congratulated president obama and the military. here's newt gingrich this morning defending the use of lethal force against anwar al awlaki, who was an american citizen. let's watch. >> american citizens engage in war against the united states are legitimate targets and i think it was an appropriate and correct thing to execute him. >> so they give up the right to due process? >> absolutely -- they got due process. the president signed an order the kill them. that was due process. i think president obama did the right thing and i praise him for having had the courage to stand up and defend america against somebody who was clearly engaged

in trying to killing americans. >> by the way, that's newt talk. execution, assassinate, that's ridiculous. he shot an enemy in the field. that's what the president did. anyway, it's newt screwing up things with his awful language. anyway, ron paul, as i just said, criticized the action. let's give paul his time in court here. let's listen to ron paul criticize the action. >> awlaki was born here, he's an american citizens. we know he might have been associated with the underwear bomber, but, if the american people accept this blindly and casually, we now have an accepted practice of the president assassinating people who he thinks are bad guys. i think it's sad. let's go to this question. it seems to me if someone in the field, they're doing operations action not just propaganda, you've got a good case to bring them down. >> yeah, look, the individual who was killed alongside him,

the other american, sameer chan, published an article in al qaeda's magazine "why i turned trader to america." other articles in that magazine that he authored included "how to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom." when you start publishing material like that, when you start encouraging terrorist attacks, when you align yourselves with people that are building underwear bombs and trying to bring down u.s. airliners, i don't see where the argument is that you have lack due process. you have identified yourself as an enemy combatant. i mean, it's pretty clear. >> i guess ron paul should say we should have one of these weird little third world trials in absentia, where you try the person before you target them. >> there's no mystery here. this is someone who has acknowledged the role. there's no question about the guilt. >> now back to richard. it looks -- let me -- i'll go to richard first. it seems like the cia is doing its job under petraeus, following up on the excellent work done by leon panetta. >> it is the cia, but you've also got to have leadership there.

and what the president's got, especially in john brennan, is someone who has the authority and the focus to follow through. there has been a concerted effort under john brennan in the white house to demolish these leaders as they emerge, to use unprecedented numbers of drone attacks. and it's been successful. you can see that in the intelligence they picked up around bin laden. these people were trying to keep low cover, not being -- not coming out into the open. it hampered them operationally and ultimately led to their demise. not just where we saw around the al qaeda leadership itself, but also these splinter groups. and so, you know, if you look at what the president said he would do in trying to get elected, this fits that. and people can say whether they, you know, like his policy on israel or not, they can pick holes in it, but at least he did what he said he would do when it came to al qaeda. >> last word from you, evan, they can run, they can hide. can they hide anymore?

>> well, you know, a lot of al qaeda leaders have been killed in the last year. some very, very senior people. number one, the number three, the number two from what we know right now is on the run, is desperately trying to avoid u.s. drone strikes. how long can he survive? not that long. the problem is that al qaeda is switching from being an organization to being an ideology. and when you have an ideology, when you have a decentralized movement like this, you don't need to have leaders anymore. anwar al awlaki's recordings will live on the internet for years to come. that's all it takes to radicalize people. >> does that mean no more big operations like 9/11? >> that's the hope. that's the hope. but i don't know -- >> let's not jinx it. let's not make bragging points about the future. thank you so much, evan kohlmann, for coming on. and thank you, as always, richard wolffe, on excellent commentary on a big, good day for america. it's always better to win when you're up against bad guys. up next, a new poll shows most americans still blame the bad economy on bush. that's good for president obama, but how much longer can he count on that? especially since bush is probably not going to run against him next time.

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the obama administration bid farewell today to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. the great admiral mike mullen. mullen's ending a 43-year military career, one that will go down in history. he presided over the end of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy and was outspoken about his suspicions that the pakistani government has terrorist links. admiral mullen's successor is army general martin dempsey. we'll be right back. ur economy-- delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts.

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welcome back. here's the hot potato question. who's responsible for the struggling economy? president obama or the man he inherited this whole mess from? george w. bush. well, here's vice president biden's somewhat surprising take on that question. let's listen.

>> even though 50-some percent of the american people think the economy tanked because of the last administration, that's not relevant. what's relevant is, we're in charge. it's gotten better, but it hasn't gotten good enough. so i don't blame them for being mad. we're in charge. so they're angry. >> "we're in charge." the poll he's referring to is the new one from cnn. when asked who's responsible for the current economy, a majority of americans, 52%, say president bush and the republicans. hear that? 52% say bush and the republicans. just 32% say president obama and the democrats. that's an allocation of blame about the same as this time last year. it's holding. but bush isn't on the ballot, i would argue, next fall, and it looks like it might be a time to change the argument. alex wagner is an msnbc political analyst and nia-malika henderson covers politics for "the washington post." ladies, thank you for coming on

tonight. it seems to me a most to the point question about american politics. we know the economy's terrible, we know people are very angry about it. everyone is, of every age group. the question is, what's the smart, intelligent thing for this president to say as he attempts to fix it? is he smart to say it's bush's fault, or what joe biden is starting to say now, the vice president, look, we're in charge now, we hope it gets better, we're not going to blame it on the past? >> look, i think biden is taking the argument that we opened up the church doors, there was a baby on our doorstep. it's not our baby, but we're going to take care of the baby. which is effectively what he's arguing for in terms of the economy. it is their responsibility to shepherd it to a better place. but how long is the american going to give them? thus far the administration has been reliant on this talking point, it took a long time to get into it, it's going to take some time to get out of it. the american public's patience in a time of 9% unemployment is understandably growing thin, i would image. >> what do you think of that, nia? i was arguing or thinking about arguing that one thing the president ought to do is just say, look, you know when you do a skiing event, they hold up the sign, ten-point difficulty.

i mean, it has been a very high difficulty the last three years. is he smart to top saying it was hard, and smart to start saying, i'm turning things around, don't blame the other guys, blame me. >> you can see them getting away from that argument. americans have been feeling economic pain for years and years and years. i talk people about downturn in businesses and they immediately say, oh, well, it's the president's policies. but if you dig a little deeper, they say, this downturn has been going on for quite some time. they're getting away from the blame game. they're trying to have a narrative where he can say that he's turning things around. they got this american jobs act. he's obviously out on the campaign trail. i talked to some campaign folks just before i got on the air, and they think that that's going to give him some momentum. give him something to argue. and then, you know, at the same time, he can sort of point to the republicans and also say that they aren't doing anything.

that not only did they sort of implicitly get us into this mess, but now they're also being obstructionists as he's trying to create the jobs. so they feel like now they're in a pretty good place. but, again, we don't know what's going to happen with this american jobs act. we don't know if come 2012 he's going to be able to run on a trend of things are getting better. >> and if they had a smart political organization, i mean the entire democratic party, they would have over people saying it was bush's fault. not having the president say it. that's a message that's better delivered by third parties. you get your cabinet maybe to say it. get members of congress to say it and governors to say it. look what this guy inherited, don't blame him. and obama can come out and say, this is what we're doing, we're doing our best. but they don't have an organized political structure. like normal political parties do. that's what i find at fault. here's vice president biden on the economy, the 2012 election, and voter anger. let's listen. >> right now, understandably, totally legitimate, this is a referendum on obama and biden, the nature and the state of the economy.

it's soon going to be a choice. it's soon going to be a choice. >> well, let me start with you, nia. you report out there with the post. and here's the question. the president had a very sharp day in terms of execution. in fact, they caught a bad guy, killed a couple of them who were out to get out, al awlaki, and the question of palling around with terrorists reminded me of -- we believe that was, of course, sarah palin. let me tell you something that bachmann said today. she said the president's responsible for the fact that the democrats were the one that approved the politically correct loans. let's listen to her. this is going way back to the democrats in congress. last night in north carolina, michele bachmann laid the blame for the whole economic meltdown on the government and politically correct loans given by democrats. let's listen. >> well, we all know that it was the government that caused this meltdown. because the government, through freddie and fannie, through keeping artificially low interest rates, through pushing the federal government, pushing the toxic subprime mortgages, through the community reinvestment act, forcing banks to make politically correct loans, the system was gamed by

the federal government that led to the disastrous meltdown, that led ultimately in september of 2008 to the terrible consequences that we are still dealing with today in our economy. >> you know, that's just old-time religion there. i mean, it's not fact. everybody knows wall street is guilty. everybody knows wall street overleveraged. they know that they're the ones that gave all this credibility to these securities. they did it. with the default swaps and all that stuff. >> you know, the cra, the community reinvestment act, is sort of implicating it as this sort of genesis -- >> the poor people did it. >> yeah, what it is is effectively class warfare. now, look, some conservative economists are actually going to argue that the cra played a pivotal role in bringing down -- in the subprime mortgage scandal. the issue, though, with michele bachmann and sort of her attribution is she completely ignores the fast and loose regulatory environment that led to financial institutions investing in exotic derivatives. i mean, it's just a gross mischaracterization, and a gross oversimplification. >> why is she -- i'm sorry, nia, explain the politics of why someone like bachmann out there, well, it's pretty obvious, i'm

going to ask an obvious question. why does she hold harmless wall street? not the rich, not the corporations, not new york, nobody did anything wrong up here. it's those little poor people that goth those loans to buy houses that they shouldn't have. they were too ambitious to join the american dream. blame them. >> and she fails to mention that she, of course, got a loan from fannie and freddie for her own very lavish home. but this is an old narrative from the republicans. this whole idea that the liberals are pandering to the poor and it's the poor people's fault that the economy is in such dire straits, because they always have their hands out. you heard, of course, for instance, newt gingrich talking about president obama being the greatest food stamp president ever. so there has been that rhetoric. i mean, even going back to president reagan, who talked about welfare queens and that whole imagery. so she's just playing into that whole narrative that has been around for a long time. and it's its own version of

class warfare. >> i thought it was nixon that expanded the food stamp program? i thought it was bob dole that fought for that for the farmers. is my history that off? >> look, history -- >> affirmative action -- >> if you talk about class warfare, this narrative of attacking the poor and the struggling and disenfranchised is what the gop is effectively running on these days. >> go back to the past, newt. thank you very much, alex wagner. thank you, nia-malika henderson of "the washington post." up next, suspicions confirmed department. what do tea partiers think is the most important amendment in the bill of rights, think about it. think about the one they really love. think about that in the sideshow. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. we're america's natural gas

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back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. first up, when you think of the bill of rights, what's the one amendment that you think's most central to what the country stands for? well, for illinois republican joe walsh, no surprise, it's not freedom of speech. which one tops the list for him? that would be amendment number two, the right to keep and bear arms. advocating for his state to pass a concealed/carry law, walsh explained to his audience of tea partiers earlier this week -- "there's no issue when it comes to freedom that matters more than this. like the second amendment, the most important amendment in the bill of rights is the second amendment. it protects every other amendment. it is the last line of defense between us and our government." does mr. walsh really believe that his owning a gun has any positive influence on the success of our democracy? this is delusional. next up, operation bargain hunt. that was a feed taken on by the first lady yesterday afternoon, as she went out to pick up a few things at a nearby target. with a baseball cap and a pair of sunglasses, looks like she

and her plains-clothed security detail were able to pull it off. only supported by security and an a.p. photographer. what about the president, here's what he had to say during his interview with michael smerconish earlier today. >> i don't even want to shop, all i want to do is take a walk, but as she reminds me, nothing i do is under cover. she gets embarrassed when she goes out with me, because there's an ambulance and a caboose and a dogsled. you know, it trails for about a mile behind me. >> the president is talking in code about the motorcade of security vehicles that goes wherever he goes as president. and next up, prepare for an awkward handshake this night. gop front-runner mitt romney's booked to speak at next month's values voters summit down in washington. the program is all set. and as it stands now, there would be more than a little friction between romney and the speaker who will follow him. that would be the director of issues analysis for the american family association, brian fisher. turns out he has a long history of bashing the candidate's mormon faith. let's listen to his comments

from earlier this week. >> mormonism is not an orthodox christian faith. it's just not. it was very clear that the founding fathers did not intend to preserve automatically religious liberty for nonchristian faiths. so when mormonism came along, they practiced polygamy. they believed in polygamy, just like muslims do today. >> well, the only person who ought to be embarrassed by that statement or any of this awkwardness statement, is the man who made that statement. religious liberty in this country is religious liberty. simple. up next, republicans love chris christie because he's a tough guy, but that's exactly why so many democrats in new jersey actually don't like him that much. senator frank lautenberg even calls him the king of liars, and he's coming here to talk about it. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. hey, check it out. she's using the mr. clean magic eraser bath scrubber.

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. president obama has signed a stop-gap funding mesh that keeps the government running through tuesday, and replenishing the disaster fund. the state of california is dropping out of talks between banks and the states aimed at reaching one settlement for claims of negligence and abuse in mortgage and foreclosures. the justice department is asking a federal judge to put alabama's new immigration law on hold while it appeals the ruling that allowed it to go into effect. the juries of michael jackson's doctors's trial heard from the two paramedics today. the worst quarter for wall street since the crisis in 2008. all the major averages lost between 12 and 14% of terry fran cone. and is out after eight years

of leading the boston ball club. now back to "hardball." if you're looking for leadership in america, you know you're not going to find it in the oval office. >> welcome back to "hardball." it's getting hotter. that was new jersey governor chris christie in louisiana last night, hinting at his own consideration of running for president. this afternoon, the associated press reports that we've been hearing for days, confirming, he is thinking about a run, and may make up his mind soon. that's from the governor, close to the governor. his tough talk, by the way, has won his republican support around the country, praise, and a lot of national attention. but democrats in new jersey itself are telling a different story. we've got two of them with us tonight, this evening. senator frank lautenberg from new jersey and frank palone of new jersey. thank you. i want to read something here, "the new york times" reports today, i know you've read, that the two of you have a chilly relationship, you and governor christie. the story says that the

governor's referred to you as so out of touch and so partisan and said that you blow hot air. that's his description of your work. and that you called him or said that he's the king of liars. are those quotes accurate, senator? >> well, his quote about me is one of more generous ones, i'll tell you that. >> about yours about him? >> he persists in lying himself. he lied to the head of our general assembly. he lied to our speaker, our president of the senate, when during a snowstorm he said he was in touch regularly. and the fellow said he never heard from him. he lied to the firefighters when he said the last thing he would do, furthest thing from the truth, would be to fool around with their pension plan. and the first thing he did when he was elected is make the adjustments that really hurt them. so he's a persistent liar and the opportunity came to respond to him and i called him the king of the group.

>> let's go to congressman frank palone, he's with me right now. i don't understand this. you've had hurricane irene up here. normally people get together, even if they don't agree politically, if there's a crisis. did you even get together with him then? was there any sort of powwow, getting together with the governor? >> we did work together during hurricane irene and afterwards, with fema and the state and local governments. i think it worked out very well. >> did you sit in the room with this guy? >> we traveled with him when president obama came to new jersey. >> but that's a photo op? >> it was more than a photo op. i think there was a lot of cooperation during and after the hurricane. >> what do you think of him as a governance person? is he the kind of a guy -- let's get back to senator lautenberg. is he the kind of person that you can imagine bringing the country together politically? >> it's hard to think of that with his bullying temperament. he calls people names freely. he's abusive to women. he called one a jerk, another one a liar, another one needed a

baseball bat brought to her. that's not the kind of language we want to hear from someone who's going to try and bring the country together when, in fact, he's a divide -- strictly a divider. >> congressman palone, is that your view? >> i think he doesn't work together with the democrats to accomplish a goal of improving the economy and creating jobs. i mean, our unemployment is higher than the national. you know, he made all these promises he's going to lower property taxes, he was going to save our schools and improve our schools, and every one of those things, frankly, is getting worse. and i just wish he would make this decision, chris, about whether to run, because new jersey has a lot of problems, which he needs to address or, you know, have to be addressed, whether he's there or not. >> why is he popular in the republican chat world right now? the chat room, where the country seems to be focused on this guy, congressman. why? >> i think they like the fact that he, you know, is kind of a bully and i guess they say, you know, doesn't hesitate to insult people and that type of thing, but i don't think that's helpful. i agree with senator lautenberg.

you need somebody to bring sides together. democrats and republicans together. and that hasn't happened in new jersey. and i think he's the last person that would accomplish that nationally. >> let's look at the poll. christie's approval rating is now up to 54%, pretty healthy, way above the president's. 35, disapproval. senator, if he's so unhelpful to be around and so uncheerful a presence, why is he up there at 54%? >> well, because he is a good speaker. but the tales that he tells about cutting and reforming things hasn't touched a lot of people outside of the state. but it's a miserable knife that he carries, when he wants to cut, and it affects people's living and he's -- it's mean-spirited. and so, he's not a bad person, but he's -- his temperament is not that of a winner and very, frankly, i think the more that people get to know about him across the country, they'll think differently about him. >> well, you're the veteran senator in this state, the

senior senator, senator lautenberg, and everybody respects you, and i want to know how many times has he called you for cooperation in the last two years you've been in office? does he ever call up and say, let's get together for lunch or dinner or a drink and say, let's see how we can work together? does he ever do that? >> no, i've never got a call from him. as a matter of fact, one time at a delegation meeting i offered to give him my phone number, because i said he must have lost it, i never hear from him. that's been the situation from the beginning. he doesn't like invective, but didn't make a phone call to share a problem or encourage us to work harder. you saw what he said in the article. >> i know. >> that his people said that he's closer to obama, and he go direct, and he doesn't have to talk to us. meanwhile, he's gone retail instead of wholesale and tried to resolve a debt that's owed to the federal government. brought in lawyers, cost them over a million so far. >> yeah, he hires a lobbying firm rather than working through the delegation.

that's an odd way to do business. >> well, i thought so, because they're going to have to come to me. i'm on the transportation committee. and i'm chairman of the committee that does transportation work. so, i want to work for the state of new jersey. but he makes it impossible to do it jointly. >> it is odd, congressman, to go hire a law firm that hires former senators to come and talk to current senators who actually have power. let me ask you about the great conundrum. frank pallone, i'm going to ask you a political question. the american people want congress and the public and the government to get along. they want action. they're tired of this the bickering, this pinging back and forth, this stupid talk. and they want something done. now, why do they like a guy who's so awful, who uses terrible language, yells at callers on call-in shows, uses terrible language, treats people like scum sometimes, and then -- but he's perfect for the country to run it. it doesn't make any sense? >> it doesn't. i think as was mentioned by the senator, you're looking at a

republican primary where there's not some very good choices out there. and i think to some republicans, they're looking for another person, a new face, whatever. >> but why would they want a grouch if they want somebody to get along with everybody? >> well, i don't think the right wing does want to get along. i think it's the people in the middle, the more moderate republicans, you know, that would like to work with the democrats and i don't think christie's that kind of a person. >> they don't know what kind of a bully is. he's thrown people out of meetings, he's used all kinds of insults. he's not a peacemaker, nor is he a mover on a bipartisan basis. >> senator, last question to you. is this a striptease that's going to end with nothing, or is he actually going to be talked into running for president? >> well, i think it's a tease, and i think that before he leaves the state of new jersey and leaves that seat open, where we're in such deep debt, where we're in such deep trouble, that if he's going to run for the

president's job, then he ought to make plans to leave the governorship to someone who's going to be active. >> do you think he's running? >> i don't know, but i'll tell you, he should make a decision, because the longer this goes on, i don't think it helps the state. he's got to get back to business. >> nobody knows. thank you very much, frank lautenberg and senator frank congress mast pallone. thanks very much for coming on. coming up, michael smerconish interviewed president obama on his radio show. we'll see what he learned from his inside conversation today with his friend, the president. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ daniel ] my name is daniel northcutt. [ jennifer ] and i'm jennifer northcutt. opening a restaurant is utterly terrifying. we lost well over half of our funding when everything took a big dip. i don't think anyone would open up a restaurant if they knew what that moment is like. ♪ day 1, everything happened at once. ♪ i don't know how long that day was. we went home and let it sink in what we had just done.

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for this country and to take it in a new direction by stopping the spending spree and the scraping of obama-care, i'm confident that we're going to choose a nominee that has governed with conservative principles. not one whose health care policies paved the way for obama care. >> i think the word, governor, is scrapping -- the speechwriter put in there, with trying to talk to the speechwriter. get to know what he's talking about. anyway, perry plans to be more aggressive against president obama and against romney, of course, as he gears up for the big debate in 11 days. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." president obama spent part of his week reaching out to voters in florida, north carolina, and

colorado. three states he won back in 2008, but now he's struggling to reconnect with voters concerned deeply about the economy. today the president spoke to voters in the rust belt state of pennsylvania, where according to the latest head-to-head matchups in the quinnipiac poll, obama's in a statistical dead heat with mitt romney. rick perry's within striking distance, just six points behind the president. the president spoke with msnbc political analyst and michael smerconish about the economy, the war on terror, and making sure no one is disenfranchised in the upcoming elections. smerconish joins me now along with the comcast network's washington, d.c., bureau chief robert traynham to talk more about the president's interview. here's the president, let's take a look at the questions about voting rights and the 2012 election. let's listen. >> some of these moves in some of the other states that we've seen, trying to make it tougher to vote, restricting ballot access, making it hard on seniors, making it hard on young people, i think that's a big mistake.

and i have made sure that our justice department's taking a look at what's being done across the country to ensure that people aren't being denied access to the franchise. >> michael, let's talk about that. you know, this is going to be, everybody thinks, robert, a very close presidential election next time around. it may not be, it may be a wipeout in either direction, but it looks like it's going to be close. and therefore, the groundwork matters, the election procedures matter, turnout matters. is the president, does he seem to be worried that the republicans in a close election can take it from him by making it harder for older people and minorities to actually vote and get counted? >> well, if it's a game of inches in this election, and i agree with you that it might be, i predicated that question by asking him, are you worried about the goalposts being moved? because, you know, chris, the combination of these things, of requesting voter i.d.s for the first time in certain states or limiting the pre-voting that can take place or look at what the move afoot here in pennsylvania is. where the president in '08 left

with 21 electoral votes, by the new standard, he would have had a net gain of one. and so i think they need to be focused on these things. that h asked the justice department to take a look. i'm not that surprised. >> let me go to robert. that whole question gets down to the question about minority voting and older people voting and it's a fact, most people in big cities that live in row houses, for example, and they get older they don't have driver's licenses. they don't drive cars. my grandparents didn't drive cars generally most their life. big city people don't own cars, therefore, don't have government i.d. cards, therefore they can't vote if you start making that a requirement. >> yeah, look, at the end of the day this is a numbers game to run for president. we all know that. what the president and white house are concerned about, chris, you know this, is that the african-american vote and senior vote in west philadelphia, miami, florida, norfolk, virginia, this is a numbers game. if minority votes are

quote/unquote disenfranchised those people won't be able to vote for the democratic candidate. that's what the white house is concerned about and rightfully so. >> michael, last point on this. do you think they have any case of corrupt voting? >> we had that problem in pennsylvania a couple years back. let's be honest here. is there concern that's real about crooked voting, phantom voting, people driving around in cars to make sure people aren't voting an voting for them, the stuff that went on back in the '60s. still going on? >> i think there are always a handful of cases. economies of scale, when you have millions of people voting, there's bound to be some shenanigans. i have yet to hear someone make a case that warrants the level of overhaul that's being recommended. >> let's look at the issue. here's the president talk about jobs and his plan on jobs. the american jobs act. in the interview with you today. he also talked about tax increases for the wealthy. let's take a look. >> there are wealthy americans

who i think are patriots and are willing to do their part as long as, you know, they are knowing that their money is going to closing the deficit or for programs that are going to help make us more competitive. and if we make modest adjustments, closing loopholes, making sure that wealthy are paying their fair share, making sure a guy like warren buffett is paying the same tax rate as his secretary, then we can actually stabilize our debt and deficits for at least a decade if not more. and that's the plan i've put forward. i'm hoping congress will act on it. >> do you think that's credible, robert, that argument? is that going to sell with middle income people that the president's saying that if you get the rich to pay their fair share you can actually get them to do it because there are people in congress to agree with him? there's a lot of proposal here. get him to do it. get congress to pass the bill, get it to happen and hope it

closes the deficit significantly. is that pie in the sky? >> absolutely. he said modest adjustments. that's a nod to independents out there that are skeptical about this and don't understand it. look, at the end of the day we know this is not going to pass. we know the republicans aren't going to allow this jobs bill to pass. this is going to be a wedge issue against him and the congress. he's going to run against the congress mike 1948 saying this is a -- you need to re-elect me we so can clean out the house of representatives and get something done. the white house knows that. >> that's the way it looks. harry truman type campaign. we're going to debate this monday night on "hardball. "the great democratic debate. how he's going to run. down the left or the middle. we'll see. thank you michael smerconish. when i return, let me finish with the incredible night, wednesday night, the most historic night in the history of a sport. [ kristy ] my mom is well...weird.

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let me finish tonight with the astounding excitement of major league baseball. i was out wednesday night this week with kathleen. we had just seen "money ball." the money starring brad pitt as general manager of the oakland a's. a stunningly subtle movie co-written by aaron sorkin who more lately wrote "social network." it's about baseball and something really important. that's also about baseball. what a night to see "money ball"

perhaps the most exciting night in the history of the game. we walk out of "money ball" into the bethesda night, head to a sports bar called the taproom. by the time we're heading out all three overhead tv sets are showing three fantastic games all at the same time. there's boston battling for its life with the orioles. there's tampa bay coming out of a nowhere september and taking a last-game leap for the wild card. atlanta is fighting for its life against 100 plus game winning philadelphia phillies. the braves had to win because st. louis had already won big that night. i get home in time to see the os win, the first time the red sox blow such a lead. still the sox had a playoff chance if the rays lose. then minutes later all hope is lost as the rays win 8-7 in the 12th inning having overcome a 7-0 yankee eighth inning lead. the yankees haven't kicked away a game like that since 1953. what a night. first the braves lose then boston then the rays win. in three games this incredible

night, there are three ninth-inning comebacks. tonight the playoffs begin. texas hosts tampa bay. the yanks host the tigers. tomorrow four games with st. louis, philadelphia, and arizona and milwaukee. plus the two games in the american league. a month of playoffs and league championships and the world series all ahead. a team has to win 11 games to be a world champion, but it will be hard to beat what happened this wednesday night. as mike dodd of "usa today" put it in this morning's paper, it was the first time in the 17-year run the wild card the teams wore tied for the final playoff game entering game 162, and two extra inning games and come from behind victory in the bottom of the ninth. two teams down to their last night before coming back. why am i talking about sports on a political show? because this is about america. i can remember, and it wasn't 1,000 years ago, when people talked about baseball not having a future, people talked about it being killed by the excitement of the nfl and by the lightning speed of the nba. we can forget all about that. go check the attendance numbers.