tv Weekends With Alex Witt MSNBC October 8, 2011 11:00am-12:00pm EDT
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we begin with the fiery words of pastor jeffress. he spoke about mitt romney's faith, saying he was not a christian. >> rick perry is a christian, he's an evangelical, a follower of jesus christ. but mormonism is not christianity. it's always been considered a cult by the mainstream of christianity so it's the difference between a christian and a nonchristian. >> rick perry was asked about the comments last night in iowa. >> is mormonism is cult? >> no. >> you don't think so? >> i've already answered that. >> in addition to denying that mormonism is a cult, his campaign said that he did not choose pastor jeffress to introduce him at the conference. >> ron paul addressed the faith
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in the republican party. >> this language, how is it going to advance our cause? it's never softened a heart or changed a mind. the task before us is to focus on the conservative beliefs and the values that unite us. let no agenda narrow us or drive us apart. >> krar rooe, another good morning. you heard him discussing religion in a broadway. how was it received at the summit? >> well, it was sort of interesting because there was a lot of subtley going on and mitt romney's comments that we just heard, about poisonous language,
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that references a speaker that came after mitt romney, not to pastor jeffress that we heard speaking about mormonism. ryan fincher, respected by the american family association, who in the past has made comments similar to those about mormons and also about gay americans as well as islam is a violent state. mitt romney was talking about that. earlier in his remarks, directly took on jeffress and he's a radio host and political commentator who took on jeffress for what he called -- he hit it out of the park. those words were key to reporters because yesterday those were the same words that rick perry used, hitting it out of the park, in describing robert jeffress who later on
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called mormonism a cult. >> there is all of the background right there. carrie, thank you for that. and i'm joined this morning by the pastor at the center of the controversy at the value voter summit. pastor robert jeffress, welcome to the program. >> thank you, alex. >> would you intentionally say this to help the perry campaign and did you expect all of this reaction? >> alex, first of all, i never said anything about a cult or mormonism. i never mentioned mitt romney in my introduction of governor rick perry. this came about after my int dukes when i was rushed it by reporters and asked if i would personally vote for a mormon and i said no. i believe mitt romney is a good, moral family man. i said in interviews that if it was a vote between mitt romney or president obama, i would vote for mitt romney. but those of us who are
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evangelical christians ought to look at a number of criteria for our nominee and certainly we would prefer someone who ranks their evangelical christianity over someone who doesn't. i'm not slandering mitt romney. mormonism is not a part of historical christianity. >> sir, do you understand why it's difficult right now to walk back on these comments? >> i'm not walking back on any comment i made. >> all right. but i'm ask you, do you think mormonism is a cult? >> yes, and i think it's a theological thought. i'm a theologan. my definition of a theological cult is someone who has a human founder versus a divine founder.
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historical entity says the bible is god's complete revolution and mormon says there's a later fresher revelation. the book of mormon supposedly came from the angel maroney and so by definition it's a cult and not a part of historical christianity. >> now, with regard to politics, sir, did you say this to help the man that you say you support the most of all, rick perry? >> well, did i say what, alex? which comment are you referring to? >> does anything you say at this point -- do you hope it helps rick perry? are you behind it 100% and -- >> absolutely -- are you at all concerned with the fact that he is now having to back pedal the interpretation of your comments and say that he does not think that mormonism is a cult and it sets up the problem right there?
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do you think you may have done his campaign some damage? >> well, i certainly hope not. but i think my introduction was a good introduction of governor perry. when i focused on why conservative religions ought to consider this man, it's much more than that. if it's not a concern to a lot of conservatives out there, there are a lot of other reasons to be concerned about mitt romney, not least of which is his inconsistent positions like the sang tea of life. romney allowed for abortions with a $50 deductible. that is a concern for a lot of evangelicals who are not impressed about his conversion to the like principle. >> dr. jeffress, do you understand why it's a problem for people when you say at a podium when you are introducing someone and what you say after the fact, whether it be a snap comment made to a reporter or
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what you are talking to me about here. you say that you do believe that mormonism is a cult? >> that's correct. i'm part of the southern baptist convention which is the largest protestant denomination in the world and our denomination long ago labeled mormonism as a cult. so this is not anything new, alex. i am not jeremiah wright making some fanatical comment. again, there are much bigger issues for many people than mitt romney romney's personal faith and i think we need to focus on those differences as well. >> i know you said you believe in your words. president obama believes that he's a christian. if mitt romney were to win the nomination, would christians with all political factions feel safer voting for the president
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than mitt romney? can you tell me how that's going to weigh out? >> personally, i would certainly vote for mitt romney instead of barack obama. i think we must unseat barack obama. for me as a pastor, not for political reasons but for spiritual reasons. but i don't think mitt romney will energize evangelical voters, because he's viewed as an inconsistent conservative. i want to remind people, alex n. 2008, 30 million evangelical voters sat at home and did not vote because they were not enthused by john mccain and i'm afraid that is what is going to happen in 2012. when we evangelicals have a choice, i think we ought to prefer someone like rick perry over mitt romney. but if mitt romney is a
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nomination, lee support him. >> is this a political calculation as opposed to making observations about your faith beliefs? >> well, some will say that it's a political calculation. but my faith in jesus christ affects every are area of my life, including my political beliefs. the fact is, to religious people, religion matters. and who we are is largely defined by the religion that we embrace. so i think that this is going to be a continuing issue, alex, both in the primary and if mitt romney becomes the nominee, i think it will be the issue in the general nomination as well. we ought to be able to talk about it in a national way because religion really does matter to millions of americans. >> so, again, back to your -- i want your initial reaction. after you said anything, you saw that clip that we played when you were speaking to someone who had a hand held camera -- >> yes. >> -- did you expect this
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firestorm and how do you feel about it? >> no, honestly i didn't expect it because i really thought that my views are well known because i said the same thing in 2007. and it was widely publicized but it's also just the mainline belief of he have january gel cal christians. and, you know, you also alluded to bill bennett's comment that i did not hear today. you know, to say that i am a bigot because i prefer an evangelical christian over a nonchristian, i wonder if that makes bill bennett a bigot because he refers republicans to democrats. i mean, we ought to say that, yes, i believe that a christian in office is better than a nonchristian. i reminded people yesterday that it was john jay, the first chief justice of the supreme court who said we have the duty and privilege as christians to collect and prefer christians as our leaders. that was the first chief justice
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of the supreme court. i think that's something that many evangelicals believe, that a christian is a choice to somebody who does not embrace historical christianity like mitt romney. >> have you spoke with anyone in either the mitt romney or rick perry campaigns? >> not since yesterday. not since i introduced the governor. >> okay. pastor robert jeffress -- dr. robert jeffress, thank you for your time. i know it was a busy morning. thank you for making the time for us. >> it's great to be with you, alex, thank you. now to the white house, president obama is pushing his jobs bill and defending his plan to pay for it with tax increases on the rich. >> some see this as class warfare. i see it as a choice. we can either keep taxes exactly as they are for millionaires and billionaires or we can ask them to pay at least the same rate as a plumber or a bus driver.
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>> >> the strategy ever since he made that speech and the american people right after labor day, he's been around the country, bashing republicans, urging republicans to pass the bill and not making much headway with republicans. at least not those on capitol hill, i should say. but there is a glimmer of hope in the senate. and they have made alterations in the way that the bill is paid for. there is a 5% surtax on income over a million dollars, you've probably heard about that. and republican and democrats have drawn a sharp line on this issue. both sides need to be comfortable where they are. john thin is a republican senator from south dakota. he delivered the response today from president obama. >> his latest bill is so flawed
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that senate democrats are rejected it and are rewriting it. not to grow jobs but to improve their political standing. it's nothing but a rehash of the same failed ideas that he's already tried, combined with a huge tax increase. >> you know, president obama had a press conference on thursday behind me in the east room. he asked, are you trying to negotiate with republicans or are you simply campaigning? he went to that ridge over the ohio river and hit them real hard obvious lie trying to insight the base. are you trying to negotiate or campaign? the president said, if they give me something that will disable me, i won't be able to say i'm running against a do nothing congress but as of now, republicans are not passing any part of that jobs bill, alex.
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>> the nfl's oakland raiders owner al davis has died. he he was in football for six decades and a member of the football hall of fame. word of his passing broke on the oakland raiders website. simply his name and age and promise of a team statement. al davis was 82 years old. more reaction to the remarks against mitt romney's religion. also ahead, part two of today's office politics. mike barnicle talking about america's mood. a close call for a pilot who had to plash down in the pacific. you're watching weekends with alex witt. wait. wait a minute. there's a truck. tough to tell from here, but whoever is driving that truck is right below the plane now. this is -- this is just unbelievable! the broken landing gear landed into the bed...
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have to see here. coast guard cameras off the coast of hawaii show a pilot who had to land his plane in the pacific. he ran out of fuel and the coast guard pulled the 65-year-old pilot from the water and is recovering from minor injuries there in the hospital. one of the italian jurors in the amanda knox trial is talking about the case. he says he was never convinced of the prosecution's case and does not believe that she killed meredith kercher. chapman, what is meredith kercher's father saying? >> good morning, alex. john kercher, the father of meredith kercher, has spoken out. he restates some of the points that the family has been making throughout the whole trial, that they believed that their murdered daughter and sister has been forgotten over the four years of court hearings but he
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goes on to say that this cult of celebrity is demeaning meredith's memory and is disrespectful. he also says that he doesn't think that amanda knox has south veb pretty status. but he says it's more sensitive if amanda knox maintains a low profile. she has maintained a low profile since being released five days ago. she made a statement five days ago and has not been seen since. her family says that she wants to focus on family time together and they wanted to focus on spending time together and also do some simple things that she hasn't been able to do since income prison, walking out in the grass and feeling the grass between his toes. her former boyfriend has been laying low as well.
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>> there are all of these reports that she, amanda knox, and her boyfriend, rafael, they will be reunited? >> alex, these are rumors but at this point we've been told that they just want to spend family time together and who knows what they will do next. whether he makes his way to the united states, we don't know. his lawyer says he has enjoyed sleeping in his own bed and having a fish dinner with his family and he's not looking to travel any time soon. >> all right. thank you. will shoppers feel confident to spend more this holiday season? that's ahead on "weekends with alex witt." those first young men. the pioneers. the aviators. building superhighways in an unknown sky. their safety systems built of brain and heart,
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consumers give businesses the incentive to hire? vera gibbons is joining us. what do they expect this holiday season? about the same as last year? >> about the same as last year. retailers expect to hire about 400, 500,000. last year we saw 495,000. it's not off par prerecession years. >> is it optimistic? >> there is some optimism and that's because shoppers haven't completely thrown the towel in. we are not doing the luxurious spending or anything but we are still shopping and they expect sales to be anywhere from 2.5 to 3%. last year we saw sales up over 5%, which was a surprise. but the forecast could change. >> so you and i have talked in the later years about online shopping and how that is getting
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so much stronger. >> that's where the growth is, yes. that's where the growth has been and where it's going to be. if you're looking for a job, you might consider the distribution centers, the warehouses. the call centers do a lot of hiring. ups does a lot of hiring this year. if you are looking at basic retailers, toys "r" us, jcpenney, this is when they do the bulk of the hiring. >> so how do you turn the seasonal job into full time? >> only 10 to 15% of seasonal jobs become full-time positions. you really have to try to make this happen and you've got to show up on time, be flexible, do what three want and then some. no complaining or griping. none of that. >> exactly. >> i tell you, that is just
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[ spectator ] gun it, bro! what's this guy doing? dude. [ laughs ] whoa! whoo! no way! go, go, go, go! are you kidding? [ cheering ] oh, my god. did you guys see that? maniac. [ male announcer ] the midsize nissan frontier with full size horsepower and torque. innovation for doers. innovation for all. ♪ welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." wall street is still occupied with protests. demonstrations have been held from san francisco to chicago. in fact, they have spread to dozens of other streets, including minneapolis. a total of 45 other states have
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been the target of protests. lilia luciano is here with us in new york. you've been there a couple of hours. have you seen the crowd swell? >> reporter: well, the crowd is definitely organizing, alex. they are moving on to start a rally at around 3:00 p.m. they are moving from the park here into washington square. originally it was going to be a march but it sounds like that's been called off. they are just going to move out there. they are going to rally there and then tonight they plan to hold what they usually do, where their concerns are voiced out, where their plans for the rest of the week, for the days ahead are also explained. but one thing that i found very interesting, yesterday, last night, i went to one of those general assemblies and because they can, they don't have a permit to hold a microphone. what they use is what they call a people's microphone, where one person speaks, they voice out their concerns and talk about what they want to see and what
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type of change they are looking for and then the rest of the crowd will repeat it so everyone can hear it. they continue to organize in this way with whatever resources they have. they gather food from whoever has been do natinating around t world and ordering hundreds and thousands of dollars of food. that's pretty much how they are funding and basing their organization. but it's pretty much decentralized and they are making sure that there are no leaders and no people leading or guiding what is to come next. >> yeah. so i guess it's hard to figure out what the end game will be, how long people are going to stay. do you get any indication of that? >> it's very hard to say, alex. because i start talking to people around here. there's so many causes conglomerated here. there are so many different support groups and so many different groups that are voicing out their concerns. it started out with wall street
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and the inequalities that they say they find in the financial sector but it spread all the way to climate change. what type -- i've been asking, is there one thing or three things or anything in particular that either washington or the financial sector need to start putting into place? and they just seem to be part of the popular movement and to have no limits to it. >> yeah. okay. nbc's lilia luciano, thank you for that. >> reporter: thank you. legislators say that new laws will keep immigrants out of their state. our other kerry sanders spoke with a farmer facing a major worker shortage. >> we had 80 to 95. >> and now? >> 40 to 45.
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now, to fact or fiction. this week, a war of words over president obama's jobs bill. >> we've got millions of laid off construction workers who could right now be busy rebuilding roads and bridges and schools. this jobs bill gives them a chance to get back to work rebuilding america. why would you vote against that? >> and house speaker john boehner was reacting to the president's words. >> decided to campaign full time instead of doing what the american people sent us all here to do. >> so we are here to play it. fact or fiction. we're going to talk jobs, jobs, and more jobs. fact or fiction, will the obama jobs bill come to a vote this week? fact or fiction? >> that's fiction. senate majority leader harry
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reid will get it sent but not by this week. >> okay. fact or fiction here, the partisan political process in congress will block the jobs bill. fact or fiction? >> i will put that as a fiction and here is why. the president's own party is not fully behind this legislation and, in fact, the republicans in the senate have been trying to get a vote on it to make this point, that the democrats are not fully behind it. so in that sense, when you refer to partisan, when you're thinking that the republicans are blocking it and certainly they are in the house. but it's also the democrats and senate that are blocking it right now. >> but they are not fully behind it why? because it cannot pass? >> they are going to pass some kind of version of it. it's just that they didn't like how the president paid for his jobs plan in the legislation that he sent to capitol hill. >> okay. so, then, fact or fiction, the
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jobs bill is doa in the house? >> doa as introduced, that's true. doa completely, no. the democrats and the senate have already decided on a new way to pay for the bill and it's undoubtable that some version of the legislation is going to pass. >> all right. you just answered my last question. parts of the jobs bill will pass, and you're saying absolute fact? >> that's a fact. republicans are advertising their willingness to tackle some of the areas that they are disagreeing with with president obama. >> is there some areas that you know will pass for certain? >> yes, tax cut aimed at businesses to help spur the economy. >> when do you think that will pass? >> you know, it depends what the vehicle exactly is. we may see it as part of the super committee. i would put maybe a november time frame on it. >> okay. fact or faiction, thank you.
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>> thank you. this is msnbc contributor and morning regular, mike barnicle. he weighed in on the occupy wall street and i asked him about steve jobs and where he fits in the great pan three john of innovators. >> you consider edison and henry ford and steve jobs would have to be in that lineup. only because what he gave us is similar in one sense culturely to what the prior three gave us. they gave us the automobile, the mass produced automobile, they gave us electricity that was consumed coast to coast. they gave us the origins of electronic communication, the telephone. and all of these things could be employed, utilized by people of all ages and all income groups.
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when my mom got to her mid-80s, she was a widow and had been tapped into the world that she was interested in, in the world of education and she was a school teacher. and i got her a macintosh computer when she was 85 years of age. and when you think of that, you know, you've got an 85-year-old widow, the same tool that you just got your 18-year-old son when he was going off to college. that's an amazing generational gap that jobs was able to fill with what came out of his head. the action says that jobs gave to everyone to this world of the internet and to the world of education, i think that qualifies him to be put in with ford and bell and edison. >> as we look at this occupy
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wall street phenomena, the 99% crowd s. this going to cause a social upheaval or at what points will those folks in washington fear what's happening enough to elicit change? >> well, i don't think people in -- i don't think the public people in the congress, the house, and the senate -- i think too few of them fear change because they have no clue as to what is happening in this country. they are so interested -- they think in times of two years. they think only in terms of the election. i said, pay attention to this. pay attention to this. because if you go down there, as with a lot of movements through the last decades, part of it is stick, part of it is theater, part of it is theater people being there because they don't
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have a lot of other things to do but a huge part of it, the majority of it, i would estimate, are people who are floating on a river of anxiety today, as are a lot of people. they are worried not only about the future but the present. they are fearing their economic future may be in weeks and months, paycheck to paycheck. if they are lucky enough to have a paycheck. so i would say pay attention to this movement. this -- there's something bubbling in this country. when people fear the future the way i think too many people now fear the future, that's a danger zone. >> there's a picture of you here at fenway and i think thas pretty darn close to your seats. how did you get those seats and you are right next to the dugout. do you ever lean over and say, hey, you should be doing this? do you ever offer tips?
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do they go to you for advice? >> well, i'm not going to get into that. >> okay. true. guilty. >> no, i don't offer tips. you know, i don't gamble. i don't drink. i'm not a womanizer. i don't play the stock market. i'm not a hedge fund guy. i'm a season ticket guy. i'm home. i feel at home in two places. one is at home with my family and one is at fenway park. >> if any of you are looking for mike at fenway, he's the one that gets there at 5:00. he's a regular contributor here on msnbc on "morning joe". apple was identified as america's most inspiring company. the prime reason?
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karen finney. karen, mitt romney did not respond to pastor jeffress' comments. >> right. >> does he need to? >> no, i don't think so. we talked to reverend jeffress in the green room and that is his opinion as to the theology of mormonism. i don't think mitt romney has got to address that. but i will say on tuesday night at the cnn debate, they are going to go after rick perry and the mormon cult and what does it mean, i think it's going to be a coming issue certainly this week and certainly up until january. >> yeah. erin, you can weigh in. you're new to the conversation this morning. >> well, you know, alex, four years ago mitt romney had to deal with this a lot and he got questions everywhere he went in iowa, just about how he was going to handle his faith and
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then he gave a big speech. as you were talking about this morning, he gave the speech about freedom of religion. he's taken a long time to ramp up on the campaign trail and hasn't spoken to many voters this year but it's certain to come up again and he's going to get asked those questions again and we'll have to see if he had land dell it any differently than he did last time. he's tried to steer voters away from it and talk about the issues that he wanted to talk about. >> karen, at the risk of, you know, doing something -- you and i have been e-mailing. you asked in the green room, pat when and talked with reverend jeffress and you asked him, why would you prefer a christian in the white house over a nonchristian but would support mitt romney over barack obama. what was his answer? you didn't echl mail me back.
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>> his answer was -- pat will correct me if i get this wrong -- but that he would prefer someone who would follow the sort of bib cal teaching and would just come off the air criticizing mitt romney for flip-flopping on the issue of abortion. but then i followed up and i said, barack obama is a christian and to his credit i say he said, he's a christian, i believe that, and i'm not one of these people who doesn't believe that. so i thought that was really the most important point. you know, he'll have to sort out who he supports. >> you know what, you guys, we have to get to the new poll out of new hampshire. herman cain is shown behind mitt romney but ahead of ron paul. what do you think that shows? >> i think it shows how much fluidity there is in the republican field.
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this past week we saw chris christie is not getting in, sarah palin, not getting in. hopefully we never have to talk about her again. we will have to to go all the way, but, again, i think it shows people are still kind of looking for who's the guy. >> if i can add to that, alex, you know, the media was so quick to seize on this narrative that it had become a two-man race between mitt romney and rick perry. it was an alpha male duel and that was it. >> but you know, this is -- >> that's true. but a lot of republican strategists told me, herman cain is not going to be our nominee, but this is a protest vote and the base is saying, until rick per you gets his act together, we're with herman cain. >> this is bad news for rick perry and very good news for mitt romney. herman cain really is on fire
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now and he's doing well, but very few people think that even if he won a primary or two he could go the distance. he doesn't have the legs in terms of money and organization. the more he's out front, he's eating up the oxygen that it's got to go back to rick perry who is the one candidate as of now who has the money and the base and the recognition to go the distance. >> i want to get to joe biden. listen. >> the american people are dissatisfied for the state of the nation at the moment. that all by itself is enough to make you the underdog. >> is it strong enough to have a must be party for its nominee to beat this president? >> oh, absolutely. it's strong enough to beat both of us. >> karen, is this biden speaking off the cuff and out of turn or is this a message sanctioned by the white house? >> i think it was an honest answer and i hope the white house would sanction that. i think we would be criticizing
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the white house if they said oh, no, we got this in the bag. so we appreciate the honesty. >> all right, guys. >> that's right, alex. he wasn't spinning. he was honest, candid and correct. >> you guys sit tight. in just a moment, we're going to rate the week, how the gop candidates faired. [ male announcer ] cranberry juice? wake up! ♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories --
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it's time now for a fast rating the week. the three gop candidates polling ahead of the pack. also president obama as he continues to push his jobs plan. so of those four that we're talking and here, the three gop leaders, mitt romney, herman cain, rick perry and the president, give me a grade overall, erin, who did the best, who got the best and worst grade? >> mitt romney probably got the best grade. he's been doing very well on the campaign trail in the last few months. speaking strongly and sticking with his guns on things.
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i would say that rick perry has had the worst week. he has just gotten himself into trouble for the last week for a handful of things we've been stalking about. >> karen? >> i'm going to say that i think president obama has had a very good week. i thought -- pat's laughing because he knew i was going to say that. look, i think it's a good thing that he's continuing, he's been consistent getting out there selling his jobs bill. the poll numbe erers are showin people are responding positively on that. >> give me who had the worst week. >> eric cantor had the worst. >> he's not even part of the group. >> sorry. >> pat, what do you think? >> clearly herman cain had the best week. he's been on fire. he has come from nowhere who is runner-up to mitt romney. nobody would have predicted or
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