that can help lower cholesterol. is it a superhero? kinda. ♪ all right. time for your e-mails and tweets. i got a good tweet from penn state danny. there's a 999 drinking game when herman cain says it. i still feel fine fine fine. >> one viewer writes after seeing hank williams wearing a yankee jersey, i'm thinking of burning mine and becoming a red sox fan. >> let's not go too far.

we're going to hear about this from joe scarborough, i suspect. "morning joe" starts right now. since this discussion is all about economics, governor romney, i promise this won't be about religion. sorry about that, rick. >> we're missing this so much. what we need to be focused on in this country today is whether or not we're going to have this policy or that policy. what we need to be focused on is how we get america working again. and we're sitting on this absolute treasure-trove of energy in this country. and i don't need nine nine nine, we don't need any plan to pass congress. we need to get a president of the united states that is committed to passing the types of regulations, pulling the regulations back, freeing this country to go develop the energy industry that we have in this country. i can promise you that we do that and we'll create an environment in this country

where the manufacturing will come back to this country. we did it in texas. >> oh, we'll find out. it's wednesday, october 12th. >> what was it? it was a snuggie? is that the blanket with the arms? >> i think so. >> yeah, my daughters have those. welcome to "morning joe." i like your leopard skin one. with us onset, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and congressional correspondent for national journal major garrett. and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. >> leopard skin snuggie. >> you don't have one of those? >> come on. >> my daughter has one. what are you talking about? are you making fun of my daughter? >> no, no, him. the concept of a leopard skin snuggie. >> we got it. we'll just go back to wherever you were and pretend you're

here. nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. >> it's a great day to have a andrea on. >> always a great day. but news wise, an important day to have her on given the terror plot that was foiled. andrea can give us her insight on that a little later. >> yeah. and of course, hank williams jr. wearing a yankees uniform. so much worse than the hat. >> why are we putting him back on the air? >> i win. game over. >> game over. michael steele, former gop chair, judge the debate last night for us. >> it was a load of fun. i tell you. >> hold on a second. define fun. >> and load. >> both of those are operative terms there. no, i thought it was one of those debates where everyone who needed to do something either did it or didn't. and in this case, romney needed

to stay cool, calm, and collected and show he's presidential. he did, he won the debate. hands down without any doubt. he was not touched. in fact, the questions he got in many respects, i think further positioned him to get to iowa and new hampshire and beyond. herman cain sustained himself. he batted back on the 999 points. there was no real digging into what this 999 plan was about. so he survived. you saw perry, at one point i had to tweet. you know, perry was clear lip underprepared for the last couple of debates. but he was prepared so much too well that he was too tired to answer questions. >> it is amazing the energy level, major. i want to follow up on that. the energy level of rick perry on these debates is frightening. it's just -- i've got to say it's remarkable.

a guy shows up at a debate and it's a nonissue. the clip we just showed or people just showed is where we he basically says we shouldn't be worrying about this policy or that policy. >> we need a legislative plan. >> pixie dust? >> what struck me about governor perry, not only did he shrink on stage, but as the night wore on. >> he always does. >> when mitt romney had a chance to ask a question, who did he ask a question to? right past rick perry to michele bauchmann. mitt romney thought he was the formidable challenger four weeks ago, last night he didn't. and as you saw rick perry understanding what's going on. this is the ultimate televised insult. you don't matter anymore to me. i'm going right past you. >> and he's a punch line to huntsman. i've got to say, huntsman -- >> i like him.

>> he had a couple of good ones. also very in control. the base isn't going to warm up to him. but he's a grown-up. there's no doubt. he and romney last night were the grown-ups. >> i think what rick perry said later in the night summed it up. we'll get to that in a moment. but let's bring people through what happened last night. we also have to get to chris christie's endorsement. many of the questions directed at mitt romney. texas governor rick perry looking to gain back some of the ground he lost in the past few debates tried to press romney again to defend his health care legislation while he was governor of massachusetts. take a listen. >> and i'm proud of what we were able to accomplish. i'll tell you this, though, we have the lowest number of kids, as a percentage, uninsured of any state in america. i'm still speaking. i'm still speaking. i'm still speaking. we have less than 1% of our kids that are uninsured.

you have 1 million kids uninsured in texas. 1 million kids. under president bush the percentage of uninsured went down. under your leadership, it's gone up. >> wow. >> after the debate, governor perry headed to a fraternity house where he was speaking to fraternity brothers. and this is what he told the boys there. "i just try to get up every day and do my job, and debates are not my strong suit." >> well, that's knowing your value or lack thereof. >> sort of like -- >> willie? >> man's got to know his limitations. >> this is like me when i say i don't test well. >> single digits in the s.a.t. for me. >> that's hard to do. >> didn't even get my name right. you know they tell you you get all those points if you get your name right. >> not true. >> no, i didn't get my name right. >> you didn't put the space. >> i guess so. >> to major's point about mitt romney looking past perry.

it wasn't just the question, it was the way he addressed him right there. i'm still speaking. i'm still speaking. that's the way my wife talks to my 4-year-old. i'm still talking. but he also just -- if you just pure lly superficially, he look like a ceo running a meeting. sitting in the middle of the table, most of the questions directed at him. he was steering the conversation. it looked like it was his debate and he was running a meeting. >> mike, there was my first problem, i suppose. i said, nobody here other than maybe huntsman, ideology aside, forget ideology, can touch mitt romney. romney has gotten so much better over the past four years. it's stunning. and last night, i'm just talking stylistically, he looked like the grown-up there. along with huntsman who i've got to say -- >> is the grown-up. >> is really coming into his

own. he was very nervous and shaky his first debate. he's a guy that's got nothing to lose. >> yeah. that's exactly right. >> that's it. >> that's exactly right. huntsman is comfortable in his own skin, attractive candidate. knows he has nothing to lose. mitt romney last night, basically his body language, real language, his rhetoric, behavior, his i'm still talking. he really, that performance cosmetically was saying to the public watching it and the rest of the candidates there is i'm the one who is going to be running against barack obama, pay attention. rick perry, he's just this year's fred thompson. >> and that's a guy, mika, that's going to be able to hold his own against barack obama. >> i think so. andrea mitchell, really quickly before we get to newt gingrich and chris christie, jon huntsman would be able to hold his own especially on the foreign policy front, wouldn't he? >> absolutely. jon huntsman has more experience

than anyone there especially on foreign policy. at the same time, the issue is the economy. and that played to romney's strength. i agree with you about the way romney treated perry. when you say to the guys, debates aren't my strong suit, that's like saying commander in chief isn't my strong suit. that's what republicans are certainly looking for. and that's -- and americans are looking for a president who can go up against others and be a strong advocate for the united states in foreign affas and domestic. >> willie, tell us what newt did last night. that was interesting, wasn't it? i didn't really -- i think he wants to be hauled off to prison or something. >> he wants a couple to be thrown in jail. >> a lot's being made of this. newt gingrich making headlines last night with a statement on who should be held responsible for the economic crisis. and more importantly, what should happen to them.

>> if they want to really change things, the first person to fire is bernanke, who is a disaster as chairman of federal reserve, the second person to fire is geithner. and if you want to put people in jail, you ought to start with barney frank and chris dodd. and let's look at the politicians who put this country in trouble. >> clearly not saying they should go to jail. >> well, in chris dodd's case, go back and look at the countryside deals. look at the lobbyist close to freddie mac. >> i think we all agree barney frank should not be put in jail. the context of the question was should wall street people be thrown into jail. and then he played off of that. >> newt was newt last night. he was, michael steele, newt was leaning forward as they say at us at msnbc, throwing wild punches left and right. and in about a five-minute

frame. and if you're newt gingrich trying to grab the base, this is one way to do it. he not only absolutely slammed bernanke, who is ironically an ideologically conservative, and somehow has become the whipping boy of the far right. right after that, he's talking about hauling a couple of congressmen and senators off to jail. and then he starts talking about death panels. i thought it was august 2009. i just -- >> eh -- >> newt connected a lot of dots last night in about a three-minute segment. and i think the point is if you go back and look at newt's performances from the very, very beginning, he has been consistent in laying down a very strong argument. he shows and demonstrates very well his knowledge of the working of government and the policy side of it. it has helped him to the extend that he's barely in the double digit range. but you need to bring a little

bit more to that, particularly as we've already talked about you've got someone like romney who is really smoothly pursuing this effort and demonstrating his presidential. >> newt gingrich quietly is picking up one point here, one point there. he's ahead in perry in some polls. my nominee for the john mccain potential award this year goes to newt gingrich. not saying he's going to win, but i -- i might expect newt to creep in and be the anti-romney by the end of this. >> he might. he reminds me very much of the congressman i met when i came to washington in the '90s, a skilled provocateur who can take two or three issues, define them, and create what he calls a binary proposition. if you're for this and this, you must be for this. and he carries you along in this

realm of argumentation. that works on a couple of issues. but bashing the fed has become an echo of ron paul. he's trying to get the ron paul part of the party because he has no other part of the party right now. >> right. >> and this whole part of the conversation about who should go to jail was started by what about the wall street people, and michele bauchmann said no, it was a community reinvestment act. and fannie mae and freddie mac lowered their lending standards. but also in 1999, you had legislation that repealed legislation that turned banks and investment companies into brokers. which allowed the creation of all of the toxic assets through credit default swaps. >> it was a couple bad things in a row. >> republicans want to focus on one, they do not want to focus on the other. >> we've compiled -- we had one good one last time. we've compiled a few. just to give you the arc of the

debate. mike's first tweet, perry, looks like he's watching a tennis match. the next one, strangely, perry seems to have only one answer, oil and energy. so on the nose, who did debate prep, marlon brando and the formula? the next one, perry thought bubble, zzz this fancy pants debating doesn't matter a bit. the fourth one, mitt looks like he's watching these guys and all he can do is hum hail to the chief in his head. and the last one, score card strong, mitt weak, perry, good format, hunts better, nobody saw it, nothing changes. >> interesting. let's go to andrea mitchell and the big news yesterday coming out of iran. andrea, that's going to create shockwaves in washington, d.c. >> it's creating shock waves in riyadh, washington, and tehran. the iranians have written a

letter to the u.n. secretary general calling the charges baseless false allegations. so they are claiming that they are outraged by it. the u.s. officials do not know how high up this went. they have sanctioned the head of the force, which is a top military force. but the question is, did the ayatollah know about this alleged plot? did president ahmadinejad know about it? they have not been able to pin that down. but they did say this is the attorney general, the fbi director, the top officials at treasury, the president went to the situation room yesterday morning and congratulated all of the officials for having foiled this alleged plot. but it does, they acknowledge, read like a cheap thriller. and they are having a hard time, you know, explaining to people exactly how this could be possible that this iranian, a naturalized american, born in iran, could've gone to mexico, supposedly under orders to try to find an assassin to kill one

of the most veteran diplomats in washington, well known to everyone and the closest adviser to king abdullah of saudi arabia. >> i'm just looking at the highlights of this scheme, of these two iranians indicted for plotting to assassinate the saudi ambassador. it starts there. but the scheme involves an iranian used car salesman, mexican drug lords, and a murder for hire that could've left scores of people dead. now, one of the accused is an iranian-born citizen who sought out assassins from a mexican drug cartel to carry out bombings on saudi arabia's ambassador by blowing him up at an undetermined washington restaurant and then targeting the saudi embassy and the capitol. >> isn't there an easier way to do things? i'm not spy here. but seriously. come on. it's like the guy watched

magruber. >> underrated. >> by the way, very underrated show. your grandmother did not like "magruber." >> he, of course, is the man who was arraigned in the manhattan court yesterday. the other indicted is still in iran and they have not been able to get him. more sanctions were put against the iranians. and a worldwide travel alert. so the state department, the treasury, the white house, everyone is completely behind this despite many questions about this alleged plot. their point is that this force has never before done anything that was this extreme, this aggressive in the past. they've supported hezbollah, hamas, but never done anything that would suggest a plot on u.s. soil. >> yeah, and this wildly unfocused. can you believe that? >> used car salesman threatening to blow up a washington restaurant that doesn't exist.

>> yeah, and going down to mexico. everything in there but the celery. i mean, seriously. where did he get this idea? we have a lot to talk about. we didn't get to chris christie or your free stuff, major. >> i think we made history this morning, willie. very rarely have "magruber" references been dropped in. >> very few got the celery reference. >> do not let your parents go home this afternoon after school and figure out what we're talking about. we're going to talk to presidential candidate rick santorum, and ed rollins will be here. interesting. but first, bill karins, what's the forecast look like? well, we had a great stretch of weather in the new england and mid-atlantic. now it's coming to an end. it's an umbrella day in many areas of the country. we'll have airport delays out there. the green on the map is the rain. much of pennsylvania is wet along with ohio, west virginia, d.c. rain overnight, and now you're getting a little bit of

shower activity. we will see the rain picking up in intensity in new york city and philadelphia here during the morning commute and new york city more or less toward about the noon hour. we should be dry in hartford and boston until later today. at least your morning drive is on the dry side. also, thunderstorms this morning, rolling through dallas and ft. worth. the worst of it is now clearing out of the area. it's safe to head outside. you still will have a slow drive. and it could be localized flooding on the roads. an active weather wednesday with storms in the middle of the country, and all of that rain heading into the northeast. check ahead, of course, if you're going to be going to any airports later on today. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices?

sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. it's 23 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we're going to begin with our parade of papers.

the "richmond times dispatch" shows a match-up between president obama and herman cain in virginia is currently a toss-up. the head to head match-up has obama with 45% and cain with 43%. in another match-up, virginia voters give mitt romney 45% to the president's 44%. and "usa today," large daily doses of vitamin e once believed to protect against cancer and other ailments actually increases the risk for prostate cancer. >> come on! >> and you grow horns on to top of your head. >> everyone stop for a second. just eat well, okay? eat really well. don't eat this poison in fast food restaurants. >> poison? >> a lot of vegetables -- >> eat well. >> the more color, the better. that's basically it. >> i'm sorry, i'm very skeptical of the vitamin industry. >> are we sponsored by any

vitamins, anybody? >> just eat well. >> alex? >> i don't think so. >> i'll tell you right now, even some of our major -- soda pop -- >> let me tell you, i've never gotten vitamins. >> pretty much poison. you're poisoning your kid -- >> no, no, no, we like fast food. >> we don't, actually. >> i think if it's balanced. like you have a big mac one day and a whopper the next and a triple from wendy the next day. and a fish fillet later on. >> a fish sandwich. >> i do have a bone to pick with mcdonald's, though. you know their apple pies? they used to be fried. remember you could bite into them and they would crunch and you would be scalded by hot apple. >> this is why people think they need vitamins to supplement their awful diets. and let me tell you, there's

only one thing that vitamins do -- >> the cinnabon is great. let me tell you, a wendy's single meal may be my favorite meal. >> you know what i used to do with a cinnabun? >> tell us, the world awaits. >> back in my bad days. >> her bad days. >> at an airport. i'd take the cinnabon and literally inhale it and ask for two extra or three frostings. it's -- i can't even do it. i'm like an alcoholic. >> can we have a cinnabon frost machine? after intense negotiations with the white house, well, red sox general manager -- okay. that's not real. that was not really written well. >> alex just said, sorry, bad

script. >> that was a bad script. >> i didn't know. obama's from chicago. >> it's a jobs issue. >> was that a transition? >> that was horrible. >> don't do tv. >> theo epstein is close to accepting a position with the cubs organization. one fan swears he saw epstein at a starbucks on saturday not far from wrigley field. here's a guy that brought us after all of these years a world series in '04, '07, and if he has to go, all i can say is thank god! and i wish he would've left in july! let's go to plymouolitico. >> so ungrateful. >> my 3-year-old kid would've had a better pitching rotation in september than theo. >> if you give -- >> if you give theo in the off-season, he can figure things

out. but in realtime, you don't want him charging gettysburg, okay? because he's going to -- he's going to lose control. >> with the right pitcher, it would have turned out differently. >> theo, enjoy chicago. >> red sox fans have turned into yankee fans. never happy. >> did you see the rotation in september? >> stop. stop. >> it was horrific. this is what bill simmons said. you know what? if i'm watching the red sox on nesn every night and i've got to call barnicle in september, who's this? who's this guy? who's that guy? and pretty soon he said, you know what? he was on the princeton boxing team in '67. uh know we've got problems. and theo may not have planned ahead. it was awful. i agree with bill simmons. let's go to politico. >> let's go to politico. mike allen standing by very patiently. hello, mike. >> with all of this talk about

cinnabon, i just want to stick up for anti ann pretzels. >> those are those horrible pieces of fat they fry and your stomach feels like you've literally eaten a brick, okay. >> tasty brick. >> let's get to politico. we talked a lot about the debate, but let's talk about what happened before the debate yesterday, mike allen. mitt romney picking up a huge key endorsement from governor chris christie. let's listen to governor christie yesterday. >> this is not someone who just is deciding to run for president off the back of an envelope who wandered into it and said, hey, this seems like a good idea, let's see how it goes. this is somebody who has thought and listened and planned for a good long period of time of what

he would do if he was given the honor of being the president of the united states. >> what does the endorsement mean for the romney campaign? >> we see two things. the very ruthless efficiency of the romney campaign. they moved right in this weekend right after chris christie got out of the race. governor romney, mrs. romney flew down to new jersey, made the case to him. and roped him in long before other people thought he would. >> mike, what did you make of that announcement? >> i should ask you what you make of it. >> i'm curious as to what you made of it? >> he made something of it. i think mika thinks that was out of character for governor christie, and made him look like a politician. >> am i wrong? >> no, on msnbc, where this announcement was carried live. right after david corn said you saw the first audition for vice president. chris christie is showing he's willing to play the role. and we saw here that chris christie is very aggressive.

no hanging back. now that he's out of the race, there was a funny tweet last night that somebody said that rick perry in the debate looked like the starting quarterback who had lost the role. none of that from chris christie. he was as aggressive as ever. and they seemed to be a happy couple. >> and we saw what a valuable role he can play as the attack dog. he went after in that press conference, went after pastor jeffress. saying anybody who associates with a pastor like that is beneath the office of the president. >> mitt romney jumped in, turned the knife saying that rick perry had applauded that introduction. we're seeing mitt romney's new confidence, new aggressiveness. >> we're going to get you that sound bite, mika. >> we'll play later, that was maybe up in must reads, because that was pretty strong. >> mike allen, thank you for a look inside the playbook. >> have a yummy day. >> plug the pretzel again?

>> aunt annies. it's been said that five minutes with tim tebow could change your life. >> change my life. >> now the denver broncos will hope their life will be better for having tebow as their starting quarterback. >> yeah, baby. >> we'll be right back. i'm not a number. i'm not a line item on a budget. and i'm definitely not a pushover. but i am a voter. so washington... before you even think about cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." live look at capitol hill before the sun comes up over washington. capitol hill was the target for anti-wall street demonstrations yesterday where six protesters from occupy d.c. were arrested in the senate's heart office building. the demonstrators part of an extension of the occupy wall street movement were charged with unlawful conduct. and significant job losses could soon happen on wall street, that's according to a new report from the new york state comptroller who predicts up to 10,000 jobs by the end of next year. citing several factors, including declining profits and economic uncertainty. interesting other side of the story. >> i don't understand that. you get record profits, give record bonuses, and then you cut

people at the end of the year. >> you probably cut the bottom off, right? >> i don't get it. but anyway. >> math doesn't add up. >> no, it doesn't. >> we'll look into it. time now with sports with willie geist. >> game three of the alcs, tigers and rangers in detroit, the tigers had to win this one, down two games to none. in the sixth inning, josh hamilton lets go of the bat, clocks a guy in the front row, right in the noggin. miguel cabrera puts the tigers up 5-1, one of three home runs in the game. in the ninth, the tieing run on deck for the texas rangers, cabrera flashing some leather. >> big fella. >> yeah, baby. >> stops an extra base hit, tigers win 5-2. game four will be played this afternoon. in the national league, the brewers and cardinals play tonight in st. louis, that series tied one game apiece. in the nfl, the 1-4 denver

broncos have decided to shake things up officially now naming tim tebow their starting quarterback against the winless miami dolphins that follow this week's by. fell just short on the last play of the game. the coming game against miami will be tebow's first start of the season. >> i was terrified that last -- >> you had to be terrified when you saw him back in the pocket making the charger defense look like children. >> yeah. >> first of all, he has a great intensity in the huddle. and you can tell the team changes when it takes the line -- >> boy, they do. >> and he can run the screen pass for a touchdown. it was a great pass, one you wouldn't expect from a quarterback who hasn't even had one week of reps with the first team squad. this is the best time to make that change. >> he's competitive. >> first shot against the dolphins, which always helps.

>> that helps. >> that'll help. with the nba lockout continuing the first two weeks of the season already canceled. at least one star is looking at jumping to another professional league. different sport entirely. yesterday on twitter, lebron james, perhaps jokingly, alluded to a possible career in the nfl. tweeting this question to john clayton. when is the deadline for a team to sign a free agent, wrote lebron. pete carroll saw the tweet and jumped in on the speculation asking lebron, hey, king james, are you aware that the league's rookie minimum. to which james replied, yeah, more than what i'm making right now, coach. first team all state as a wide receiver, as a sophomore, all state as a junior, gave it up because he thought he was going to make $1 billion playing basketball. >> do you think if you played football in the fourth quarter he'd go underneath the bench curled up in the fetal position. >> i think he could play in the

nfl. >> yeah. maybe so. >> would he play in the fourth quarter? >> i think he could play in the fourth quarter. mika's must-read opinion pages. more with our panel when we come right back.

i think that any campaign that associates itself with that type of conduct is beneath the office of the president of united states in my feeling. >> i don't feel that has any place in this country. i would call governor perry to repudiate the sentiments and remarks made by that pastor.

>> all right. so that was chris christie who endorsed mitt romney yesterday. talking about pastor jeffress who made those controversial comments about mitt romney's faith. and they took it on clearly and concisely unlike the other gop candidates. michael steele, what do you make of chris christie jumping in on that? obviously he was asked about it. >> yeah, i think it's appropriate, and it's about time. i'm a little sick and tired of this stuff cropping up out of the blue and everyone sitting around and acting like, oh, gosh, what do we say? what do we do? deal with it up front, put it in its proper place, and move on. and whether you're talking about jeffress or the rock, the reality is it presents a problem more broadly for the republican party because it continues the narrative about our relationship with african-americans, our relationship with certain, you know, sector it is know, sector it iectors, or seg our community. and to have chris christie and

romney pushing back was long overdue. >> i feel like it puts it away. he's the front-runner at this point, isn't he? some of the numbers show herman cain. but ultimately, doesn't chris christie's endorsement help him? and what did you make, andrea, chris christie's endorsement. did you completely believe it? >> i did believe it. i believe that chris christie feels a natural alliance on many issues with mitt romney. and that he gives mitt romney more authenticity, more passion, but the real question is, will it sell to the base? to the really conservative evangelical base that would not have embraced chris christie. and there's that wing of the party still in doubt. that's where you have the running room for herman cain. i agree with major that looked more like the back bench newt gingrich that many of us remember from the early '90s

before he was in leadership who was always taking shots. he plans to do. i just doesn't seem, it doesn't have the feel of a serious candidacy. at the same time, mitt romney clearly is such an established front runner now that he's got to make a decision also as to whether he wants to make a play for iowa. because he could put it away if he got some traction in iowa. >> yeah, if he wins iowa, it's all over. you know what's fascinating, mika. saturday night live actually predicted exactly how that press conference would look yesterday. >> literally, they were standing in the same spots. >> it was. >> except he didn't ask mitt romney to do this. that was interesting. you wonder a little bit. i don't know why i can't completely get my arms around this endorsement. i'm sorry. i can't. >> i think because you think it's transactional. you think there's something between --

>> well, and jamie gangel asked christie about that in her exclusive interview saying is there some sort of deal here? maybe chris christie as vice president. take a listen. >> did he promise you anything? >> absolutely nothing. >> vice president christie? >> no. >> no? >> no he didn't promise me anything. >> would he be on your short list? >> of course, he's on my short list. the truth is that governor christie is one of the leading figures in the republican party. >> it just -- you know chris christie goes from being the giant to the next day appearing to look like a transactional politician. it certainly made chris christie look smaller. and i think that's, mika, what makes you look uncomfortable. he looks like any other governor. >> i don't think governor christie was as big as everybody was being made out to be. there was no sense he was going

to be dominant in nevada. the only place you thought he could be a competitor is in new hampshire. his endorsement of romney doesn't help him in iowa or south carolina. it may help him in florida. the main, i think mike allen's point is very valid. what's most important about this endorsement is the speed, intensity. locking it up early, sending the signal to everyone, when there's an opportunity, we will pounce, not only will we pounce, we'll succeed. and sometimes politics works that way, mika. >> i must be off. go ahead. >> no, you figure out what you want to say. >> they wanted to get him, and christie wanted to get gotten and that's probably what makes you feel uncomfortable. why so public and so rapidly? >> don't you think it could be two guys, one governor, one former governor running for president, and their wives get together for lunch over the weekend and both governors talk about the same thing. how can we skate past the fringe of our own party and win the

presidency because the country's in great difficulty? how best can we do this? i've got an idea, i'll endorse you. >> that's a possibility. >> and true state republicanism. >> we had yet another debate where foreign policy wasn't mentioned last night that was actually part of the format. but you look at the front pages of the newspapers. yes, it is frightening what's going on at home, but also abroad, what's going on abroad affects us at home. here's "usa today" talking about a european meltdown. here we have the iranians actively engaging in terror plots on u.s. soil. and yet, other than jon huntsman, there's not a republican with any foreign policy experience on that stage. and yet, it seems like americans don't want to hear discussions about what goes on outside of america. >> exactly. i think that the reason why mitt romney has been, in fact, so ambivalent and has yet to define his afghanistan policy because

he's had it a number of ways, even in his big foreign policy speech last week. the problem is what he's hearing on the campaign trail is that americans are so worried about unemployment and wall street and the anger they feel and the growing wage disparity, they just don't want to hear about the wars, and they want to get the troops home. and so you've got mitt romney saying that the president's withdrawal plan is too precipitous, but at the same time saying i would bring the troops home. he's not being definitive and muddying it up. huntsman, you're right, is the only one with a clear cut grasp of foreign policy. >> i like jon huntsman a lot. >> you're in the wrong party. >> yeah. maybe i was just watching too much "saturday night live." >> you mean about life imitating art? >> yeah, kind of. that's great. >> all righty then. >> that is too good. a couple of days before. that's one of the things, though, in the snl skit, mitt

seemed to be the bumbler and christie seemed to be the big guy. the dynamics were reversed in real life. not that christie looked like the bumbler. >> success in politics and when you feel momentum behind you, it attracts more. >> he didn't seem like chris christie for the first time. >> i'm talking about romney there. romney is the one -- >> andrea, thank you. >> can't wait to see your show at 1:00. >> anita hill joining me, 20 years. >> that's going to be great. >> willie, what do you have? >> some humble pie. i gave joe a tough time last week about hank williams alabama hat. >> those yankees fans, they're all like that. [ husband ] you ready for this?

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oh, yes. is it time, willie? >> it's time. and because i'm a big man, i can do this. last week, i gave joe a lot of grief because hank williams jr. was wearing a university of alabama hat when he compared the president of the united states to adolf hitler. so yesterday he continued to dig his hole on "the view" and did so while wearing a yankee jersey. but not just any yankee jersey, a mickey mantle yankee jersey.

>> hitler is not the analogy to use. you could have said stalin, nobody would have been that mad. >> i didn't -- >> no, you had to pick -- >> i don't know. i'm not smart enough to know the difference. i want to quote harry truman. he was in the rose garden in 1948. he was asked a political question. he said, son, never kick a cow turd on a hot day. >> that is so true. >> that is very true. she brought up about stepping in things, what brought up stepping? the bottom line, folks, is mickey is a mean mouse, and he has -- he has stepped in to that pile on espn and they're doing this, you know. oh, gosh, we've got to do this. this is my mickey, this one right here. that's my mickey. >> do you understand why using hitler was a bad idea?

let's straighten that out. >> i told you, i'm not smart enough. disney, abc, and espn, and me and the opening of monday night football are kind of like the spanish-american war, they're history. >> all right. the mick. >> intimate ring of hell -- >> did harry truman really say that? >> something along those lines. >> good lord. >> that was useless. >> you win. >> yeah. i'll see your alabama cap and raise you mantle's jersey. rick santorum had a good debate last night. more on the exclusive interview with mitt romney and chris christie. we'll be right back. erday doesn. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins?

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my top priority is 9-9-9, jobs, jobs, jobs. 9-9-9 is bold and the american people want a bold solution. >> i think it's a catchy phrase. in fact, i thought it was a price of a pizza when i first heard. >> 9-9-9 will pass, and it is not the price of a pizza. >> when you take the 9-9-9 plan and you turn it upside down, i think the devil's in the details. >> if you keep mentioning 9-9-9 and herman cain, i'm going to have to go back to him every other question. >> that's right. >> top of the hour, sun's coming

up over new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle is still with us. how you doing, mike? >> great. >> are you awake now? >> no. >> michael steele still with us in washington. he's wide awake. and joining the table editor in chief of "newsweek" magazine tina brown. i've read cover to cover the steve jobs piece. >> yeah. >> -- edition. >> we love this issue. we put it together so fast in passion. >> a day and a half you did it. >> and when you put it together with passion, it shows, i think. >> can't wait to talk about that. michael steele, let's talk very quickly, though, about herman cain. >> sure. >> flavor of the month. he is this month's michele bauchmann. or rick perry or donald trump, or sarah palin. and last night, he actually, though, was the center of the debate for a while. this 9-9-9 plan that actually introduces a new tax to america

and a new national sales tax to america while not getting rid of the income tax. it seems as a conservative to me, it seems like a dangerous step forward with some new taxes. >> well, you know, you make a good point, joe. and it's one of the things i found interesting about the debate. with seven other people on the stage who clearly would like to check herman cain, there was no dissection of the plan. for instance, states apply a sales tax, a local sales tax. does this vat tax supplant the tax? what do states do with the revenue they're losing? >> no, it is a vat tax that is added to a state sales tax. >> right. >> and the problem is, when you add sales tax, there are a lot of problems to that on a national level. but the biggest problem is, i would just recommend anybody that thinks this is a splendid idea, adding an income tax or

sales tax without getting rid of the income tax. look what happens when you introduce a new tax to a government. look at connecticut. introduces the income tax to connecticut. thinking he's going to lower property taxes, but no, property taxes go up, the income tax goes up, and people in connecticut are in a less competitive environment than they were 20 years ago. so i'm just shocked that herman cain is pushing a vat tax, a national sales tax while keeping the income tax and nobody's challenging him on it. >> right. and i think the other dynamic which, you know, herman has refuted and said, well, it doesn't have a bad effect or negative effect on the poor, it does. particularly since he wants to apply this vat tax to food. and so right now most states there is no tax when you buy bread or milk, but this would apply to that. there's a whole lot more that's going to get uncovered. and it's important that it does.

because he is moving in the polls, and that's going to require more scrutiny. >> what also is concerning last night, he was asked twice by charlie rose, who are your advisers? who were your economic advisers? and he kept mentioning one guy, identified him one time from being from ohio, the next time from being from texas. i don't know who his one adviser is. >> that was awkward. >> if you're going to talk about introducing a european-style vat tax to the united states of america, i want the conservative economist to convince me that that's not going to increase my taxes in a disproportionate, strange, distorting way. and it would do me a good -- do me good if your economic adviser were a conservative instead of a guy that flips pizza for you out in ohio. >> now, now, now, hold on and aisle going to get to rick perry and mitt romney, but michael steele, real quick. this is exactly why it seems maybe another candidate might not want to put out a plan. because then they'd have to

defend it. do any of the other republican candidates have a plan they're pushing? >> well, they all say they do. >> it's secret. >> well, mitt romney as referred to last night put out an almost 60-page plan that covers a wide array of issues. but apparently perry's still developing a plan, santorum can probably speak to the plan. and he has in mind. but there hasn't been this push forward of some innovation with except for what herman cain has done. >> just saying, and herman cain actually took mitt romney on during the debate about his plan and how many pages it has. we have that sound bite. take a listen. >> can you name all 59 points in your 160-page plan? and does it satisfy that criteria of being simple, transparent, efficient, fair, and neutral?

>> herman, i've had the experience in my life of taking on some tough problems. and i must admit that simple answers are always very helpful, but often times inadequate. >> 9-9-9. that was his response. 9-9-9. you can call for nine minutes on the weekend, nine minutes on weeknights, and nine minutes on the third day of the month. for free or whatever. he says nine, nine -- i cannot believe how much time was put forward on this plan last night, tina, and yet nobody talked about the fact that he's introducing very, i think, big government concepts. european-style vat tax. >> wasn't it rick santorum who asked everybody to put their hand up if they wanted a sales tax and nobody did. and nobody drilled down on that, actually. >> that's a great point. we need to talk to rick more abt. i guarantee you rick will agree with me, we don't want a european-style vat tax in

america. >> i think he proves, again, that kind of performance value drives everything. he's on to something with that -- i thought that was a killer thing when he said about how many of those pages have you read? because he knows that the dirty little secret of politics that nobody reads anything but the coverage. and there are thousands of pages that nobody ever reads that the lack of kind of forensic examination of any of these plans is out the window as people try to do their sound bites. cain is brilliant at that. he's become an amazing performer and it kind of works. at the end of the day, the whole debate was about 9-9-9. >> then there was rick perry who mike murphy tweets looks like he was watching a tennis match during this debate. he did try to go after mitt romney for health care. >> i'll tell you this, though, we have the lowest number of kids as a percentage uninsured of any state in america. you have the highest. i'm still speaking. i'm still speaking.

i'm still speaking. we have -- we have less than 1% of our kids that are uninsured. you have 1 million kids uninsured in texas. 1 million kids. under president bush, the number of uninsured went down, under your leadership, it's gone up. >> and, of course, he did look lost. >> a little bit. >> but in rick perry's defense, he did go to a frat party later that night. >> didn't he go to a party that night? >> and at the frat party, he cleared things up by saying -- >> viewers are going to think you're joking. he actually said that, literally. >> said what? >> he visited a fraternity and said i tried to get up every day and do my job, and debates are not my strong suit. >> was he at the boom boom lodge? >> i believe he was at the beta house. >> he was almost like an athlete with a head injury last night.

he just -- >> he was lost. >> he was totally lost. just sits there with his arms looking like he stumbled into the wrong room. it's just incredible. >> your way with words. >> he could've well have said you're grounded. he could've well done that. this guy, governor perry, probably a terrific governor of texas, he's a perfect example of what happens when someone whispers in your ear in june or july, you ought to run for president. >> exactly. >> on the substance, you asked about where the economic plans, perry announced he's going to announce his plan this week, perhaps on friday and it's going to be dependent on energy, energy independence and he supports more drilling. >> that's all he talked about last night. >> sort of talked -- >> i think the only thing these debate haves done is show that romney is kind of the front runner because perry has been the best thing that happened to romney.

and christie gave his endorsement to romney. >> i felt it was a crushing moment for christie. almost like that moment when mccain embraced george w. bush and all of your senses of the maverick flew out the window. it's not that romney's a bad person for him to be embracing, it's just that chris christie everybody felt was an individualist. and now he's embracing mitt romney, and all that sort of pre-excitement about christie has evaporated. like the moment when you go from an oscar nominee to being the guy who didn't get the oscar. >> interesting. >> former speaker of the house newt gingrich at the debate last night made headlines with a bold statement on who should be held responsible for our current economic crisis as well as what exactly should happen to them. >> if they want to change things, the first person to fire is bernanke who is a disaster at chairman of federal reserve. the second person to fire is geithner. and i want to second what michelle said. you ought to start with barney

frank and chris dodd and let's look at the politicians who created the environment, the politicians who profited from the environment, and the politicians who put this country in trouble. >> clearly not saying they should go to jail? >> well, in chris dodd's case, go back and look at the countryside deals, look at the lobbyists close at freddie mac. >> it's interesting at the end of 2008, we had a lot of republicans accusing democrats who wanted to throw george bush in jail for war crimes. of criminalizing politics. very, very dangerous move. there you have last night newt gingrich criminalizing politics, which really is -- i mean it is unfortunately, i suppose, where we end up in this type of horrible political environment. listen, chris dodd and barney frank i've said repeatedly here bear a great responsibility for what happened in 2008.

again, the criminalization of politics it's deplorable. in america, it is deplorable. >> let's not act surprised that newt gingrich said that or suggested that. he's always been that way. he's always been notice me, notice me, please, notice me, i'm the smartest guy in the room. i'll say something so outrageous you'll have to notice me. >> he's running for book sales, not for presidency. it seems to me -- i have to say i do kind of enjoy him. because the bombs he throws in, at least it's political theater and debate this. but they all turn dodd/frank into the new republican cuss word. and this incredibly sort of hard-working thoughtful guy who did help to rescue the whole collapse of the economic meltdown -- >> bernanke's actually, and again, ideologically, he's a conservative guy, which for some reason the far right has turned him into the boogieman.

let's go to michael steele. you wanted to get in. >> real quick, just to put the newt gingrich comments in context, though. and i think you've got to recognize that he was responding the way he did in answer to a question about whether or not the folks on wall street who were the robert barrons of the debacle of 2008 and 2009 should go to jail. and his response was if you go after these guys, you also have to look at the political side of the equation. to your point, not so much in terms of criminalizing that behavior, but recognizing the responsibility of our elected officials who created the pathway for wall street to do what it ultimately did. >> yeah, and michael, we put that in context last hour, thank you for putting it in context this hour. if you didn't watch last night, what happened was charlie rose asked michele bauchmann whether anybody on wall street -- actually it was -- whether or not anybody on wall street should've gone to jail. michele bauchmann said, well,

the fire didn't start there. the fire started in washington, d.c. and michele bauchmann was right. it did start in 1999, and then with what happened at fannie and freddie. and then that was newt's follow-up. >> so we go from the men that we saw on the stage last night to the man on the cover of "newsweek." and that's kind of a wah-wah. the men last night and then the steve jobs passing. >> what is really exciting, in a sense, when we put together this special issue was seeing again and again reinforced his tremendous fearlessness about being willing to fail and putting himself out there to fail and then learning all the time when he did fail and turning that into the next thing that he built on. and i think that's probably one of the most inspiring aspects of the jobs story. >> we're hearing now over and over again one person after another, including steve jobs. and what a great lesson this is

for americans. that it was -- that steve jobs would've never become steve jobs, the thomas edison of our time -- i would say mixed with the john, paul, george, and ringo of our time had he not been fired in 1985. you probably remember. for eight years or so, steve jobs was seen as a joke, a hot head, dreamer that couldn't run a business. he got fired. >> it was ten years, actually. it was ten years. kind of stumbling around. at the same time, you know, he picks up this little company pixar and he's just got this incredible eye for talent. and actually we have a lovely piece in the issue by aaron sorkin where he talks about jobs giving him a call and asking him to write this movie. and he says he's always wanted to write a movie and didn't want

to fail his daughter. and there was a pause and steve jobs says, write about that. and it's a wonderful insight in jobs because he's hearing sorkin and then he's thinking, wow, what a universal thing. the fear of failure and how that should be a movie. >> he buys pixar in the wilderness years. he buys pixar for $5 million, ends up selling it back to disney for billions less than ten years later. what he learned by failing is what made him the remarkable figure he became. >> there are often stories of people who have been fired and that turning out to be the best thing that ever happened to them. >> you totally learn. >> you totally learn. >> i learned so much. ultimately, it is liberating. >> you find out what you're made of. >> it's liberating in a sense because the struggle to sort of redefine yourself leads you into new avenues.

but also sort of frees you up from fearing that. because i think a lot of people are driven by that. and in politics, it's the only thing that drives everybody. >> the fear of failure. >> the fear of being tossed out of office is the only thing people are thinking about. >> i talked to the wife of the man who fired steve jobs. and she often talked about how that haunted him, being the guy who fired steve jobs. >> not a great legacy. >> but at the same time, it did create his future. >> it did. >> yeah. >> in the last week, a reflection on his life has been a reminder about leadership is. whether it's adversaries or the public. we could use some of that in washington. >> we sure could. coming up, was yesterday's mitt romney/chris christie's press conference a sneak peek at the republican ticket? up next, we'll speak with jamie

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he's the best person for the job. it's simply on the merits. and the fact is that we need to make sure that barack obama's a one-term president for america's future. and i've looked at all the republican candidates, met with many of them. and there's no question in my mind that mitt romney's the person who gives us the best chance of winning back the white house in november 2012, and i want to do everything i can to help him. >> 22 past the hour, and joining us now from washington, political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. and from hanover, new hampshire, national correspondent for the "today" show, jamie gangel. thank you for joining us. >> we're going to get to jamie in a second on the chris christie story. but first, chuck todd, i thought the republicans looked better, sounded better, seemed more in control last night in that format than they have.

but i thought mitt romney showed how much he's improved over the last four years. and you think he can stand on the stage with barack obama as many times as he needs? >> i don't think that's ever been the question with these debates. but you know, it's funny watching this race right now. you have all of the insiders, you have all -- all of the debate -- all the candidates on the stage, all viewing romney as the front-runner. nobody's told the voters. you know. all of these good performances haven't added up to anything yet for romney when trying to win over sort of -- call them -- i don't know what you want to call them, jaded conservatives, or conservatives that are looking for a full-fledged change. they're not happy with politicians. i think that is what explains the herman cain rise as much as anything because not only is he channelling some of the frustration of the tea party, he's not an elected official. and i think that matters. i think that's one of these check marks in his favor when

other years that isn't there. but you're right. at these debates, somebody tweeted, it's like watching the harlem globe trotters versus the washington generals. every one of these debates. romney seems on another level at being able to handle this, but of all years where that isn't rewarded right now, it's this one. >> your own polls would suggest it is having some impact. >> on swing voters, but not on republican voters. >> if you look overall at how he's doing in new hampshire compared to how he was doing two or three months ago, a must-win state, he's pulled out -- he's pulled far ahead. he's up 44% to 13%. you know, just a month or two ago, before the debate started, those numbers were not adding up. even in iowa, he's moving ahead in iowa where he was way behind before. and rick perry has collapsed. so these debates are having some

impact, are they not? >> on rick perry, that's for sure. how many more debates are we going to say, boy, this is the one where he's got to show he's up to his game. at some point, the clock's going to run out for rick perry. he just seemed -- last night was sort of a slow unraveling, you know. it wasn't like one big moment. it was this -- he just disappeared. >> it was bizarre. >> and the line that said it all to me was when he said, well, mitt romney's had six years to come up with a plan, i've had eight weeks. i thought that was a killer. >> it was. >> it really said i just define myself as being unqualified to be in this race. >> yeah. >> let's go to jamie gangel. you asked chris christie directly if there was any transaction in this newfound relationship between the two men. >> reporter: right. he said no, no, no. but how happy did mitt romney

look about this endorsement? it came very, very quickly. and what surprised me, actually, was that they did not knock down speculation about christie being a potential vice president. certainly on the short list. so here's what they said when we said, you know, could this be the ticket? >> did he promise you anything? >> absolutely nothing. >> vice president christie? >> no. >> no? >> no, he didn't promise me anything. >> would he be on your short list? >> of course he'd be on anybody's short list. he may take himself off the list and say no no way, he'd have no interest. but the truth is, governor christie is one of the leading figures in the republican party. >> reporter: so he is just -- they're leaving it out there. the vice president speculation is just going to ramp up as a result of this. but you just know that mitt romney is going to be very happy

to have chris christie, mr. authentic, mr. outspoken, plain spoken as his very tough surrogate out on the campaign trail. i think you're going to see him out there a lot, guys. >> yeah. i wonder -- he didn't rule out a transaction. is that a possibility? >> chris christie -- i don't think chris christie needs to do transactions, and i do believe that chris christie supported mitt romney because he looked at the rest of the field and said, listen, we've got to get somebody that can win this race. i actually saw ann coulter on the "wall street journal" website. and she said you know these northeast governors. rick perry said that's just two northeasterners supporting each other. ann coulter said if you are a republican of the northeast, you unlike rick perry or michele bauchmann, you have had to appeal, chuck todd, to

independents and democrats. so, yes, ann coulter saying it's a good thing as a conservative's conservative, it's a good thing these people actually know how to win in swing districts. >> i'll be curious to see what happens over the next six weeks. i do think you're seeing. you talk to elected republicans in this town, even elected republicans outside of washington. and all of them are trying to find their way to romney in some form of another. i wouldn't be surprised if you see this sort of coalescing of the establishment these days. but i think you're going to see a lot of conservatives that have some influence on public opinion start making peace with romney. and the question is, as they do that over the next 4 to 6 weeks, as you see the arguments being made in romney's favor, you

brought up ann coulter trying to make -- is making the first step of trying to make peace with a romney nominee, how does that affect the race? do you actually then start seeing the numbers move among conservatives? because, joe, right now, they're not moving. and it has been romney is still flat line -- all of this establishment momentum, and it's not yet translated. >> well, listen, i'll be the first to say just personally as i will say again, as a small government conservative, i'm very concerned that mitt romney will get into office and he'll be like george w. bush, a guy that talks the conservative line, but then spends more money than any democrats would've ever dreamed of spending in exploding the national debt. as a conservative, do i think mitt romney's going to go in and govern like a conservative? i hope so. i know he'll certainly be a lot more conservative than barack obama. but right now, i think that's all small government

conservatives have. i've got to say, when you have ann coulter coming out and saying she's supporting mitt romney, i would suspect that does provide some cover to the other conservatives to follow along. jamie, what was your take when you sat in there with mitt romney and chris christie? tell us, did mitt romney just judging his body language, did he seem to be growing into this position as front-runner in the gop? he seems to be a heck of a lot more comfortable in his skin than he was four years ago. >> look, there's no question as chuck said what you're seeing in the debates is mitt romney getting better and better at them. the question is, and his top advisers say the same thing, will he be able to grow in the retail politics? the authentic question, the connecting with the voters question? and i think they think he's getting better, but there's a way to go.

just to go back to christie on the campaign trail, you know, we always talk about three states. ohio, pennsylvania, and florida in the election. remember chris christie will play very well -- i'm not talking about vice presidential speculation, i'm talking about out on the stump helping romney in that place like pennsylvania and ohio, christie can appeal to those voters and he can be very helpful on the campaign trail. >> absolutely. jamie gangel thank you very much. chuck todd, thank you, as well. and chuck, who do you have coming up on the "daily rundown?" >> the herman cain train. >> 9-9-9 at 9:00. >> getting excited. >> just lean forward. coming up, republican presidential candidate rick santorum will be with us. "morning joe" will be right back. [ female announcer ] when kate collects her pink yoplait lids

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the cool thing about my plan as opposed to herman's plans and other plans, it'll pass tomorrow. it would pass tomorrow. why? because industrial state

democrats want those jobs, and they know if we put a pro-manufacturing jobs plan on the table, it will pass overnight. we'll get votes from indiana and pennsylvania and ohio and michigan. all of those states, so it's not just proposing a plan that will get things started that the "wall street journal" will smile at -- excuse me "the washington post," but it's a plan that can actually pass and get things done and bring people together. that's why i put it on the table. >> joining us now from manchester, new hampshire, former republican senator from pennsylvania and candidate for the republican nomination for president, rick santorum. very good to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning, mika. >> you were talking about your plan for turning this economy around. >> you know what he calls it? >> what does he call it? >> 7-7-7. >> he does? >> actually, i call it the 0-0-0 plan, because zero's better than nine, and we zero out the corporate tax for manufacturing, for repatriated profits. there's 1.2 trillion sitting

overseas from corporations who did manufacture overseas. we want them to bring that money back and bring it back and invest in plant and equipment. right now they pay up to a 35% rate. and then we zero out all the obama regulations that cost businesses over $100 million a year, repeal them all. the president can do that. we may have to replace some of them. but we can repeal some of these crushing regulations. so that's the zero, zero, zero approach. and it's focused on something that even ed schults would love, which is to get these manufacturing jobs. if ed schultz can support this plan, then you can see that industrial state democrats will do the same, and we'll pass something and bring the country together. everybody says, what are you going to do to bring the country together? well, you put forth a plan that's conservative in nature, that's principled to reduce tax rates, but can get the support of bipartisan support to pass. >> rick, let me ask you about

herman cain's plan. you were the only one who talked about the negative effects of it. but nobody drilled down. grover norquist has looked at it, he's very concerned it adds a new european-style vat tax, consumption tax that he just thinks is not going to work. tell us, is 9-9-9, this plan that everybody talked about last night, is it a good plan? is grover norquist right? does it open the door to a lot of new year you're mean-style taxes? >> yeah, when i think 9-9-9, i feel like calling 911. this will be a heart attack for conservatives. they do not want to give a national sales tax. in addition to an income tax to harry reid and nancy pelosi to expand the reach of government into your pocket. i turned to the audience in new hampshire last night and said how many people in this room are for a national sales tax? not a single hand went up.

then i asked how many people think that the income tax rate will stay at 9%? not a single hand went up. the idea that we can give government a new tax and somehow that's going to be tax reform. people need to study this plan. the other thing that -- the reason it won't get a single democratic vote even though i'm sure they'd love to have a vat tax. it'll dramatically increase taxes on middle and lower middle income workers in america whog right now pay very low rates of taxation, but will pay an 18% tax. this is just a bad idea. it sounds clever, but it won't work and it won't pass. >> no doubt about it. and michael steele, michael, that is the big problem. if you talked about a consumption tax that would take away an income tax, i know a lot of conservatives that would follow you. and you can put whatever number you want. we know how washington works. a 9% tax becomes 11% tax,

becomes 15% tax. oh, but we have this issue and there's been a flood in idaho. we're going to have to -- we've got earthquakes -- we're going to have to raise it one and we'll raise it half of one. this is how gas taxes have developed the way they have. this opens the door to higher taxes. >> well, joe, they don't call it a consumption tax for nothing. i mean, it winds up consuming a lot more than you'd think it does. and i think rick has made a very interesting pivot. and i wanted to ask him about that. i remember tweeting after the last debate that you had seemed to position yourself now to come out stronger on a number of these issues, particularly on two areas. national defense, national security, and the economy. because up to that point, a lot of folks kind of looked at rick santorum as the christian conservative, you know, candidate for the presidency. but we know that story. we know that narrative.

and you seem now to have shifted and pivoted the focus to substantively how you would handle the economy and how you would handle foreign affairs. have you felt that vibe out there with the american people, particularly in places like iowa and new hampshire? what is it that's moved that for you on the dime? >> yeah, you're absolutely right, michael. one of the things i've been trying to do and not having much success early on was trying to talk about my economic record. unlike everybody else up there on that stage like governor romney and governor perry, i have never voted to increase taxes. i've got a pro-growth record as a congressman and senator. i'm someone who has run races as a conservative in swing states. you mentioned pennsylvania, ohio, and florida earlier on. i've had a successful record of winning elections in those states unlike anybody else in this race. and my national security credentials. joe biden and barack obama fought me on the iran freedom support act that was targeted in

stopping iran from getting a nuclear weapon. if you think yesterday's was just an anomaly, yesterday's thwarted attack on the saudi ambassador here. if you think that was an anomaly, it's not. if iran gets a nuclear weapon, this will be a daily occurrence in every country somewhere around the world because iran will be able to project power with impunity because they won't be attacked if they become a nuclear power. this is a huge power that this administration is ignoring, allowing to fester. i've been someone out on the watch on this since 2004. and, again, showing the experience of seeing a problem, getting ahead of the curve, and doing something to try to stop it from becoming a national security threat to the country. >> just one last quick question. who is on your economic team? and with 0-0-0, where is the money going to come from to fix the problems that are plaguing this country? >> this is the great thing about the plan, it's focused. it's not 0%. i'm not cutting all corporate taxes, not all income taxes, i

do reduce the corporate tax from 35% to 17%. we eliminate the deductions and credits and all the other things so everybody pays taxes as opposed to just small businesses paying the high rate. so we focus the tax reduction in an area that has the greatest multiplier effect for the economy and that's manufacturing and getting people who have lower skills and semi skills to rise in the economy because they're getting these good blue-collar jobs. >> thank you. >> thanks, mika. >> thanks, joe, good to be with you. >> yep. coming up, we're going to talk to ed rollins. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." president obama's jobs bill came up short in the senate yesterday. the chamber voted 50-49 to block debate on the plan. all republicans, plus two democrats voted against the bill. harry reid also switched his vote to no from yes, that enables him to bring up the measure for a new vote at a future date. earlier in the date, mitch mcconnell pushed back saying democrats "designed the bill to fail." the democrats in the white house are now reportedly trying to break the bill into pieces in hopes of getting some of them through congress. >> all right. >> tough blow for the president? or we saw this coming? >> everybody saw this coming. we knew it wasn't going to pass. >> tina brown? >> i hate this whole passive

presidencycy approach. it feels the obama administration is running on, let's just do things to fail and everybody will say how bad the other side is. >> it's depressing. >> it's depressing. and i want to see some, you know, seizing back of an agenda in some way. >> we're going to delay the vote to a future date and we're going to break it up into its component parts one at a time. we're sorry about your car payment that you're going to miss and your mortgage payment we're going to miss, but we'll get to it in december. >> mike, don't you find that people are crushed by the sense of passivity in the president? >> people, when you talk to people who voted for the president, they now start off with a litany of how badly they feel. they felt so great at election night. what happened? >> tina brown, thanks. >> okay. >> wow. coming up next, why a new book on walter peyton is making waves with former bears coach mike ditka. you're watching "morning joe"

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>> this is as much fun as i will have as president of the united states right here. this is one of the perks of the job right here.

ladies and gentlemen, the greatest team in nfl history, the 1985 chicago bears. [ applause ] >> that was president obama saluting his 1985 super bowl champion bears last week. the event cancelled in 1986. one key player missing was running back walter payton. he died in 1999. joining us now is jeff pearlman. it's called "sweetness the eanything mattic life of walter payton." >> let me read you a quote from mike ditka. >> he sent me a basket of cantaloupes the other day. here's a quite from might ditka, "i would spit on him if i saw

him". >> why would he say that? >> he was on a radio show a couple days later and went very mellow. he says i just love walter payton. >> it stirred up controversy. why? >> there's a "sports illustrated" excerpt. the excerpt of about walter payton's life after football. i don't know if you see it in politics when guys are done, when he was done and no one is cheering anymore, and you don't have the physical ability to do what you once did. >> what happened? >> depression, you know, letters sort of talking about committing suicide, had trouble with pain-killers. a lot of things that happened to former athletes when they're no longer in the spotlight. >> that's nothing new. that happens to so many other athletes. >> you're right, joe. it isn't anything new. i read the excerpt in "sports

illustrated." i admired the writing. i admired particularly the reporting, the depth and level of reporting in the book, but i was left with the lingering question, why? walter payton is dead. why? >> i think more than anything, i think definitive biographies of sports figures. i think it's important. i think you can ask the same question of j.f. kennedy or malcolm x or marilyn monroe. if you're going to write a definitive biography of someone and write about their life, you do it honestly or don't do it at all. it's not like you're passing judgment. how do you write about someone's life and find out he's writing suicide letters and say i'm not going to mention that. >> so much of your book talks about what made walter payton so

great. there are a lot of great running backs. i never saw anybody cut like walter payton. there's the iconic shot where it looks like he's flying over the moon. this guy was blessed with such great talent and he worked so hard. >> amazing. >> my favorite walter payton story, his nickname is sweetness. nobody knew how he got the nickname. he was playing for a college all-star game. he gets a handoff during a drill. he's running. an opposing defensive back approaches and payton screams out your sweetness is your weakness. what did walter payton just say. he writes sweetness across the black board the next day. that's how sweetness came to be. >> what kind of guy was he in the locker room? that bears team was so full of character, jim mcmahon, the fridge. what role did he play in that

odd chemistry? >> he was quirky and hard to understand. he could be moody and joyful. he was a guy like you would walk in and whopped in the head by a pair of sweaty socks. it would be walter payton. he would be laughing his head off. the guy with the socks in his head doesn't think it's funny. he was different. >> did you find in your talking to people around the league, is he definitively the greatest running back who ever played? >> him and jim brown are the two guys. >> the most important thing to point out here is that jeff and i both learned in the course of the break that we can site in full the super bowl shuffle 26 years later. they call me sweetness and i like to dance. >> running the ball is like romance. >> bring chicago a super bowl champ. >> we're not doing this because we're greedy. >> bears are doing it to feed the needy. we just came here to do the

super bowl shuffle. >> okay. [ applause ] >> the book is "sweetness." you got to put o.j. simpson on that list too. >> emmitt smith up there too. >> back with more on last night's republican debate and the iranian terror plot. [ husband ] you ready for this?

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sorry about that, rick. >> we're missing this so much. what we need to be focused on in this country today is not whether or not we're going to have this policy or that policy. we need to be focused on how we get america working on. let me tell you, we're sitting on this absolute treasure trove of energy in this country. i don't need 9/11 to pass congress. we need a president of the united states that's committed to passing the types of regulations, pulling the regulations back, freeing the nation to develop the energy industry we have in this country. we do that, we'll create an environment in this country where the manufacturing will come back to this country. we did it in texas. >> good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast as we take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." with us on set, mike barnicle, major garrett along with michael steele and andrea mitchell in washington. >> michael steele, gop chair,

judged the debate for us last night. >> it was a load of fun. i tell you, man. >> hold on a second. define fun. >> and load. >> both of those are operative terms there. i thought it was one of those debates where everyone who needed to do something either did it or didn't. in this case, romney needed to stay cool, calm and collected and show he's presidential. he did. he won the debate hands down without any doubt. he was not touched. in fact the questions he got in many respects i think further positioned him to get to iowa and new hampshire and beyond. herman cain sustained himself. he padded back on the 999 points. there was no real digging in on what the 999 plan was about. he survived. you saw perry. at one point i had to tweet, you know, perry was clearly

underprepared for the last couple of debates, but for this debate, he was prepared so much and so well, he basically was too tired to answer questions. >> it is amazing the energy level, major. i want to follow up on that, the energy level of rick perry at these debates is frightening. it's just -- i can say it's remarkable. a guy shows up at a debate. the clip we showed is where he basically says, hey, we shnt be worrying about this policy or that policy. >> we need a legislative plan. >> it was a bizarre performance. >> what struck me about governor perry, not only did he shrink on stage, he seemed to shrink as the night wore on. when mitt romney had a chance to ask somebody a question, who did he ask a question to? like past rick perry to michele bachmann. mitt romney thought rick perry was still a formidable

challenger, he would have engaged him directly. he going to michele bachmann who is not a threat right now. as you saw rick perry, understanding what is going on. this is the ultimate insult. you don't matter to me anymore. i'm going right past you. >> he's a punch line to huntsman. i've got to say huntsman. >> i like him. >> huntsman. >> i like him. >> he's also very controlled. the base isn't going to warm up to him. he's a grown up. there's no doubt. he and romney last night were the grown ups. >> i think what rick perry said at the frat summed it up. we'll get to that in a moment. let's bring people through what happened. we have to get to chris christie's endorsement. the format allowed for the candidates to ask questions of each other. many directed at mitt romney. rick perry looking to gain back some ground he lost. he tried to press romney to

defend his health care legislation while he was governor of massachusetts. take a listen. >> i'm proud of what we were able to accomplish. i'll tell you this. we have the lowest number of kids uninsured of any state in america. you have the highest. i'm still speak. >> criticism. >> i'm still speaking. we have less than 1% of our kids that are uninsured. >> you have 1 million kids uninsured in texas. under bush, the percent uninsured has gone down. under your leadership, it's gone up. >> after the debate, governor perry headed to a fraternity house. this is what he told the boys there. "i just tried to get up every day and do my job and debates are not my strong suit." >> that's knowing your value or lack thereof. >> willie? >> all of the colleges that rejected me when i don't test

well. it doesn't work for me. >> single digits for the s.a.t. >> i signed my name. >> you know how they tell you you get points when you get your name right, not true. >> you didn't put the space between your first and last name. >> i guess so. >> two major's point about governor romney looking past perry, it wasn't just the question, it's the way he addressed him, i'm still speaking. that's the way my wife talks to my 4-year-old. i'm still talking. he also just, if you just purely superficially, he looked like a ceo running a meeting. he was sitting in the middle of the table, most of the questions were directed at him. he was steering the conversation. it looked like it was his debate and he was running a meeting. >> fruit loops get mad at me when i state the obvious. i was analyzing on twitter, that was my first problem. i said nobody here other than

maybe huntsman, ideology aside, can touch mitt romney. romney has gotten so much better over the past four years. it's stunning. last night, i'm just talking stylistically. he looked like the grownup there along with huntsman, who i have got to say -- >> is the grownup. >> is coming into his own. he was nervous his first debate. he's a guy that's got nothing to lose. >> that's exactly right. >> that's it. >> huntsman is very comfortable in his own skin. he's a very attractive candidate. mitt romney, his body language, his real language, rhetoric, behavior, as willie indicated, i'm still talking, that performance cosmetically was saying to the public watching it and to the rest of the candidates there, i'm the one who's going to be running against barack obama. pay attention. rick perry, he's this year's fred thompson.

>> that's a guy, mika, that's going to be able to hold his own against barack obama. there's no doubt about it. >> andrea mitchell, really quickly, before we get to newt gingrich and chris christie. jon huntsman would be able to hold his own especially on the foreign policy front, wouldn't he? >> absolutely. jon huntsman has more experience than just about anyone there, certainly on foreign policy. the issue is the economy. that played to romney's strength. i agree with you the way romney treated perry. when you say to the dartmouth men, it's not your strong suit to debate, that's like saying being the commander in chief is not my strong suit. that's the test whether you can go up against barack obama and win a campaign. that's what republicans are looking for and americans are looking for a president who can go up against others and be a strong advocate for the united states in foreign affairs and

domestic. >> willie, tell us what newt did last night that was interesting, wasn't it? i didn't really -- i think he wants people to be hauled off to prison. >> a lot is being made of us. we'll see if you agree. newt gingrich making headlines with a statement on who should be held responsible for the economic crisis. more importantly what should happen to them. >> if they want to really change things, the first person to fire is bernanke who is a disastrous chairman of the federal reserve. if you want to put people in jail, you ought to start with barney frank and chris dodd. let's look at the politicians who created the environment, who profited from the environment. >> clearly not saying they should go to jail. >> in chris dodd's case look at the countryside deals. >> barney frank's case, look at the lobbyists he was close to at freddie mac. >> it was the context of the

question was should wall street people be thrown into jail, should executives be thrown into jail? he played off of that. >> newt was newt last night. he was michael steele, newt was leaning forward, as they say at msnbc, throwing wild punches left and right. in about a five minute frame. if you're newt gingrich, trying to grab the base, this is one way to do it. he not only just absolutely slammed bernanke, who ironically is i had logically conservative and has become the whipping boy of the far riechlt after that, he's talking about hauling a couple of congressmen and senators off to jail. then he starts talking about death panels. i thought it was august 2009. >> newt connected a lot of dots last night, joe, in about a 3:00

segment there. i think the point is if you go back and look at newt's performances from the beginning, he has been consistent in laying down a very strong argument. he shows and demonstrates very well his knowledge of the working of government and the policy side of it. it has helped him to the extent he's just barely in the double digit range. but you need to bring a little bit more to that, particularly as we've already talked about, you've got someone like romney who's just really smoothly pursuing this effort and demonstrating his presidential temper. it makes it a lot tougher for others and the arguments they make, however sound, get lost. >> you know, major, something has happened. newt gingrich is quietly picking up one point here, one point there. he's ahead of perry in some polls. my nominee for the john mccain potential award goes to newt beginning risch, not saying he's

going to win, but he might be the anti-romney by the end of this. >> newt gingrich reminds me of the congressman when i first came to washington in the 1990s. he can take two or three issues and define them and create a, what he likes to call, binary proposition. if you are for this and this, you must be for this. it sort of carries you along in this realm of argumentation. that works on a couple of issues. bashing the fed has become an echo of ron paul. he's trying to get that ron paul part of the party. he has no other part of the party right now. this whole conversation about who should go to jail was started by what about the wall street people. michele bachmann said it was a community reinvestment act that forced people into homes and fannie mae and freddie mac changed their loans. which allowed the expedited

creation of all of the toxic assets through other things. >> it was a couple bad things in a row. >> one to focus on one. they do not want to focus on the other. >> mike murphy has taken to drinking during the debatings and tweeting. we've compiled a few to give you the arc of the debate. mike's first tweet "perry looks like he's watching a tennis match." strangely perry seems to have one answer, oil and energy. on the nose. who did debate prep? >> third one. bubble, this fancy pants debating. >> the fourth one says mitt looks like he's watching these gails and hum hail to the chief in his head. >> the last one strong mitt,

weak perry, good format, but charley wobbled. nobody saw it, nothing changes." >> let's go to andrea mitchell and the big news yesterday coming out of iran. andrea, that's going to create shockwaves in washington, d.c. >> it's creating shockwaves in reyaud, washington. they are calling the charges baseless, false allegations. they are claiming that they are outraged by it. the u.s. officials do not know how high up this went. they have sanked the head of the kux force, but the question is did the ayatollah know about this alleged plot. did presidentage d agag agknow .

everybody krat latcongratulated having foiled the alleged plot. it does read like a cheap thriller. they're having a hard time explaining to people how this could be possible, how this iranian, born in iran could have gone to mexico, supposedly under orders to try to find an assassin to kill one of the most veteran diplomats in washington, well known to everybody and the closest adviser to king abdullah in saudi arabia. >> i'm looking at the highlights of this scheme of these two iranians indicted for plotting to assassinate the saudi ambassador. it starts there. the scheme involves an iranian used car salesman, mexican drug lords and a murder for hire that could have left scores of people dead. one of the accused is an iranian born citizen who sought out

assassins from a next cal drug cartel to carry out bombings on saudi arabia's ambassador by blowing him up at an undetermined washington restaurant. then targeting the saudi embassy and the capitol. >> isn't there an easier way to do things? i'm no spy here, but seriously. come on. it's like the guy watched mcgruder. >> you grandmother didn't like mcgruder. >> one point, he of course, is the man who was arraigned in the manhattan court yesterday. the other indicted iranian is still in iran, they believe and they've not been able to get him. more sanctions were put against the iranians and a worldwide travel alert. the state department, treasury, white house, everyone is completely behind this, despite many questions about this alleged plot.

their point is that this could force as never before done anything that was this extreme, this aggressive in the past. they've supported hezbollah and hamas. >> next the race is going forward. we're bringing in ed rollins. >> ed doesn't hold back. >> the million dollar idea. how a competition for oil spill cleanup generated new technology that could be an industry game changer. first bill karins with a check on the forecast. he's not really a game changer. >> no, just a status quo. good morning, everyone. the airports, we were worried about them today. we knew rain was in the forecast and the clouds are low so the ceilings are low, visibility a little low for the pilots. we're doing all right. 15 minutes.

philadelphia has rain coming down. the rain has yet to get to washington or boston. all o philly has the rain. it's knocking on the door for new york. pittsburgh it's raining too. if you're traveling around d.c., we could see delays and heavier rain. two day rain's vent for many areas. we saw heavy thunderstorms in dallas. that's beginning to end. the heart of your morning commute should be dry with wet roads. middle of the country, we're going to watch storms today. look how hot in l.a. it's going to be 96 degrees in l.a., middle of summer. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins.

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>> i have behind me a man who's an american hero. he's been battling to rein in the accesses in washington. he's a man who is forthright, who has a following of a lot of folks in this country. when he indicated a willingness to join my team. i could not be more pleased and happy. >> michele bachmann's former campaign manager ed rollins. mike barnicle is here as well as michael steele. we'll talk about her in a second. the most vexing question is what is up with rick perry. editor of the national review tweeted this last night. perry has as much energy as dorothy when she's about to fall asleep in the poppy field. what is with these energy lapses

where he seems to fall asleep in the second half of every debate? >> he made his career being a cheerleader at texas a&m. the expectations are very high for him. he's a good retail politician and i think to a certain extent when you see him on the campaign trail working with people, he's much better than he is in debate forum. he has had the debate, historically ducked them. he would be better off if he could have ducked these. >> you can't do that. let me ask you what's happening in the republican party. last fall sarah palin, she was the flavor of the month. then in the spring it was donald trump who rocketed to the top of the polls. in early summer, michele bachmann rocketed to the top of the polls. rick perry in late summer rocketed to the top of the polls. what's happening in the gop. why so much volatility? >> i think romney has never quite made the sale.

>> why is that? >> there's something there that although i think he's had good dedates and he may very well end up being the nominee, it's not over yet. republicans are not sold on him and we aren't the party that takes the next guy in line. >> conservatives don't trust him? >> they don't trust him. he may be more in tune with his views today than he was but they're not there. at the end of the day, perry is still going to be in this race. he's still got money to spend. we have a long month in january. the three months before any voters actually cast their vote. his window is short. he's got to win iowa. all the candidates have to win iowa. >> same with michele bachmann. >> yes. if i'm romney specialist, i would say i'm going to shut this thing down. >> that's good. >> people forget, he got 30,000 votes to huckabee's 40,000

votes. there was another 40,000 votes guiliani and mccain got. it's not like he can't get a plurality. i would take a chance there if i was the strategist. >> let's talk -- you're exactly right. if you win iowa, shut it down. let's talk about who the republican nominee faces barack obama. can you think of any sitting president in as weak of a position going into re-election as barack obama going back to jimmy carter in 1979? >> carter had ups and downs and was not totally as weak going into the general. people forget that it was a neck and neck race with reagan. the campaign that he ran is no knowing he couldn't win buy-selling what he had not effectively done because they had to make reagan an unacceptable alternative. they couldn't do that.

i think to a certain extent that's the game plan here. even if they had a billion dollars, that's not going to convince anybody barack obama is going to be a better president the second term. whoever the republican is, he's an unacceptable alternative, that's the plan. he's dangerous. that's the strategy. axelrod and those guys are more than capable of doing that. >> given what you just said, why then hasn't romney made the sale? >> day by day, he's making more of a sale. to a certain extent, people are getting more comfortable. you may start to see somewhat -- i think everybody was waiting who's going to come in. is perry going to change the game? is bachmann going to stay at the top of the game. >> chris christie. >> haley barbour. we had a strong bench out there that chose not to make a race. mike huckabee could have made a great race. mitch daniels might have made a great race. at the end of the day, we have who we have. to a certain ex at the point,

whoever comes out of this will be a strong candidate. >> talk about a weak president, we hear this anxiety in the republican party. oh, my gosh, are we going to blow this. we have a president ripe for the picking here, but romney may not be the guy. how do you change that feeling within the party. how do you get conservatives who like michele bachmann or rick perry or ron paul, how do you get them to rally around romney? >> part of that is the process. six months from now, if we're having the same discussion, obviously we've got problems. i don't think there's going to be a third party. at the end of the day, people so want to beat obama on my side that they will rally around whoever the nominee is. romney may have some reservations, but he's not an unacceptable choice at the end of the day. >> the romney people, when you talk to them, they're very confident despite as you point out, they haven't been able to break through. >> right.

>> in terms of opinion polls and everything like that. the strength, they feel strongly, is the candidate is so methodical, so straight ahead. he has a plan in a land where it appears none of the other candidates have that specific kind of plan. he will never be labeled by barack obama or anybody else as too dangerous. >> he's not dangerous. i think why he didn't do well four years ago is no one really thought he was conservative and he waffled all over the place trying to get from massachusetts to a national candidate. at the end of the day here, he is a better candidate because perry got into this race. he was running the classic front runner strategy in which he was, you know, sort of lackadaisical in his campaign. i think the test here is, you know, perry's got a lot of money. he's going to go beat the daylights out of him on television and do a traditional campaign. we're watches the debate part of this. there's still another part of this campaign.

>> in iowa, what's going to end up being more important, ideology or winning this? >> winning is the game this time. i think that, you know, 60% of the voters who voted in the caucus last time are born again evangelicals. some of them have problems. we've heard the debate the last several days. at the end of the day, republicans want to win. i do think that republicans are not sure at this point in time that romney can win or perry or any of the rest of them. i think in the back of their head, they see a vulnerable incumbent. people say if we lose to obama, my god what the next four years will be like. we have done a great disservice to ourselves. >> michael steele in washington, do you have a question for ed rollins? >> after a year of holding the kiddies by the hand on the playground and walking them through a primary change we thought would make this a much more fun race and stretch it out a little bit so everyone would have a chance to play. florida has gone and screwed it

up. they jumped into january, which is now forced all the other front loaded states to as early as now january 3rd. what impact is that going to have between now and december on the strategies these campaigns are going to put in place? you are one of the key strategists this party has seen in a long time. interesting your insights. what do you do? >> your effort as chairman was a superb effort to make the states get in line, but as you know, we're a bottom up party. at the end of the day, they don't care. they want to be players. my sense that this is iowa once again. if someone comes out of iowa and it's not romney, then you've got -- that person should go to south carolina. romney will go to new hampshire and probably win easily. win nevada. then you have florida. florida becomes the 800 pound game that we all -- whoever wins that, at the end of january,

that's a race where you need media, paid media, whoever wins that i think basically like mccain did four years ago, he's pretty much on the way to win it. i don't think this is one of these that is a hillary-obama that's going to get dragged to the end. by the end of january, we'll know who our nominee is. >> michael do you agree with that? >> there's one part that everyone seems forget. under the rules we have in place, unless the chairman changes those rules, you go to florida, but those delegates are now going to be proportional. they're not going to be winner take all. you can win, but still lose. you're not going to get 25, 27 votes. you're going to get whatever percentage of the total votes you got and that could keep still a lot of people in play. that was the point we were trying to make to the states in the leap frogging. if you're a winner take all state and you jump to the front of the line or move up in the line before your turn, your votes are going to be diluted. >> i'm a great believer in

proportional elections. at the end of the day, psychologically, it will be very much like the mondale race in 74. mondale won enough that people perceived him as a winner. the interesting thing is these five plays we're playing in january are critical to us. iowa is critical to us in the general. nevada is critical to us in the nern. new hampshire is critical to us in the general. the bottom line is all of those states, even though they're early. south carolina obviously, should be ours, but those states are going to play a disproportionate role in the general. >> could michele bachmann win the swing states. >> she could certainly win the -- >> the general election. >> general election, i think with a lot of discipline, she's a very good retail politician. >> how does she play in bucks

county, pennsylvania? >> it would be a challenge. it would be a challenge. >> right now, her focus -- >> would she win new mexico? >> her focus is where it should be which is winning iowa. >> look at the adorable smile on his face. >> she would lose all of those states. i said it. >> stop it, joe. >> it's like the ncaa, whatever it is now, 66 or 64. you got to win the first one. you win them one at a time and keep going. >> whatever, ed. it's great to have you back on the set. >> my pleasure. >> wonderful to see you. >> thank you so much, michael steele. coming up next, the million dollar competition that sparked ideas, innovation and could dramatically improve how the world handles oil spills. something important in northwest florida and across america. we'll be right back.

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>> takes a woman sometimes to come up with a really good idea. as last year's bp gulf oil spill. are you good? >> i'm good. >> demonstrated an efficient way of capturing crude oil from ocean water does not exist.

wendy schmitt teamed up with the ex prize that fosters organizations, launching a challenge to find a solution to the oil spill collection problem. yesterday, the wendy schmitt oil cleanup ex challenge announced the winning team. wendy joins us with revolutionary results. >> also wendy is very smart. she gets how simple-minded we are. she brought a visual aid with you. >> this is some of the oil that spilled into the gulf. i think it's really interesting. most people have never seen what this looks like. when we clean up oil in the ocean, this is the sticky, weird, heavy substance. >> it separates. >> it separates and emulsifies. you got to get it out of the water, whether it's separated or isn't. >> what was it? was it the paper towels and the phone booms that made you think there's got to be a better way. >> it was in the wake of the

deepwater horizon spill. you saw how disorganized and haphazard our response was. the same technologies have been used for 20 years to clean up oil. >> brawny paper towels. >> absolutely. what was so exciting about this competition is we managed to do in less than a year what the industry had not done in 20 years. >> what was the competition? what was the question? >> we were trying to exceed industry standards in oil pickup. to get technical for a minute. the standard in controlled conditions was 1100 gallons per minute of picking up oil. that's what everybody understood was possible. we said was let's go out there and have an audacious goal of picking up 2500 gallons per minute. let's do it with 70% efficiency so 70% of what is in your tank is oil. our teams, seven out of the ten of our finalist teams blew past the industry norms. they doubled it. our winners did more than that. the second place team pulled out

2700 gallons per minute of oil. and our winning team drew a gasp when they announced 4720 gallons per minute. >> how? >> what did they do? >> they took a technology that they had used before. they scaled it up. they took this challenge, not for the money, just to break through. these were people inside the industry. they themselves found there was no path to innovation. without this relatively modest challenge put out there. >> do the techniques for cleanup change with water on the top as opposed to water mixing throughout? >> they've got to pick up all of it. there's got to be a way to get it all and separate it out. what they did over the summer was to use -- the competition took place in new jersey, 600 foot long pool basically. the oil was in there, skimmers were put on the water and booms to contain the oil. each team came in one after the

other, each of the ten and did six different runs in the tank from one end to the other. in flat water and in wave conditions to simulate real ocean conditions. we averaged those results to get those numbers. >>. winning team, team elastech from southern illinois. this begs the question, if you found the solution with a simple investment in one year, why hasn't the epa been working on this? why haven't the oil companies been working on this? all you did was provide money. it appears the technology was there. they needed your support. >> we gave them a platform. what people told us, if we built this technology two years ago, nobody would have bought it. there was no market for it. the problem has to do with where the funding comes from. the appropriations from the federal government don't go to oil spill cleanup. within the industry itself, company reached a level of it's okay. it meets requirements. it's good enough. is it good enough? we should be asking that question. >> we want to talk about

innovation and job creation. there we are. >> we saw so much energy around this. this contest is an american phenomenon. our teams in europe said we can't do this. nobody is ready to fail in europe. >> we're ready to fail in america and we are proving it every day. we're willing to take crazy chances and fail. >> exactly. are you planning more challenges? >> i would love to work with the x prize foundation. it's the best experience i had as an philanthropist. such a measurable outcome a year later. >> maybe we can be a "morning joe" producer. >> i mean seriously. there were so many times in the gulf coast, we would have families from small businesses that had had these businesses along the gulf coast in my hometown for a generation and they would say why aren't they doing anything?

where are the skimmers? where is the technology? even though the oil didn't come to pensacola, florida, my hometown, the specter of it out there drove tourists away for a summer and destroyed some of these businesses. >> regional economy was destroyed. this is a national security issue really. you have to ask after 15 months after what was called the worst environmental disaster in u.s. history, how has our congress not passed one single piece of legislation to address the safety of the industry, which is highly underregulated compared to other technical industries in america, aviation, chemical processing and nuclear power. >> thank you, wendy. thank you so much. it's great to meet you. up next, futures rise on hopes of european rescue. "business before the bell" is next. capital one's new cash rewards card

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. >> paul mccartney couple days ago in london got married. how about that? married a truck heiress. she's worth half a billion dollars. i'm telling you, you know the economy is bad when paul mccartney is marrying for money. >> let's get a check of the "business before the bell" with cnbc simon haobbs. "usa today" talks about europe and how it's tearing at unity. a lot happening over there. how is it impacting us today. >> the big news overnight is it claimed its own country. they're expanding the bailout

fund. they'll do a deal and the market is shrugging that off. here we are at the height now of earning season kicked off last night with alcoa, the aluminum giant suggesting maybe the world is worrying itself in a recession. aluminum prices are falling, it will open down. better news from pepsico. they have to spend more money in the united states advertising the soda, because they've been underinvesting against coke. that's dragging them down. >> simon, alcoa, when alcoa goes down, that's a warning of a possible recession to come, is it not? >> yeah, but we've already had the fall in aluminum prices. that's had what has been happening. the question is whether it becomes self-fulfilling or perhaps you don't get china going into the recession. the other thing that's happened overnight, we started to get business reacting to the occupied wall street protest. yesterday they marched around outside john paulson's house. he released a statement saying

instead of vilifying our most successful businesses we should be supporting them and encouraging them to remain in new york city. on the other side of that, ben and jerry's, the ice cream maker, put a notice on their website of a cartoon of a cow holding a sign saying occupied. ben and jerry's in 2000 was bought by the angelo dutch consumer. you wonder if there's terse calls being made today. >> paulson, the man who made billions off the collapse in 2008 of the housing market that has led us to where we are today. simon hobbs, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. if i were john paulson i might not put statements out. a guy that made billions and billions of dollars on the collapse of the u.s. economy really shouldn't be talking about how what's good for john paulson is good for america. try again.

simon hobbs. thank you. we shall return with something funny, i hope. we're america's natural gas

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location of the candidates behind the podium is determined by their ranking in the polls. they will say, all right, here's a composite of polls. here's our leader. that's how they arrange the people on the stage for the debate. it's fascinating. take a look at this.

>> participants in tonight's republican debate at dartmouth will be seated according to their poll numbers. based on his recent momentum, herman cain will be seated at the center with mitt romney. second tier candidates like newt gingrich and ron paul will be placed to the side and rick santorum will debate from the parking lot. >> without his record in texas. >> enjoy the debate, america. ♪ [ male announcer ] you've climbed a few mountains during your time. and having a partner like northern trust -- one of the nation's largest wealth managers -- makes all the difference. our goals-based investment strategies are tailored to your needs and overseen by experts who seek to maximize opportunities while minimizing risk. after all, you don't climb a mountain just to sit at the top. you lookround for other mountains to climb.

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the new audi a6 is here. the road is now an intelligent place. ♪ ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. what i learned is instant cam ma, believe can get willie geist. last week after being attacked for once being a very big atlanta braves fan, hank williams hat, hank williams showed his true colors and true identity. right there. there you are. i think that says it all, willie geist. >> that look too. >> catch it twice. >> oh, my gosh. there's a reason you hear the super bowl shuffle playing in your ear. i knew this would come in handy one day. >> disturbing. >> the