my trip to catalina tomorrow. >> that's an important distinction you make. if they're up from the east coast they're up at 5:30 in the morning drinking. he's just still up. a tweet from @chadstallion, i believe a tweet from @chadstallion. up early because buster my dog ate a lizard and is now sick all over the floor. those are our viewers. "morning joe" starts right now. it's been a rough month. we've been brutalized and eaten up and chewed up in the press. we've been brutalized by our opponents. so much of that is i think they look at him because of his faith. he's the only true conservative -- well, there's some conservatives, and they're there for good reasons.

i truly feel like we are here for that purpose. >> all right. good morning. it is friday, october 14th. >> i'm pouring this for you. >> welcome to "morning joe." with us onset msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> you know there's a good source of vitamin d. you know how i know that? it says that right here. you want a lot? you know the interesting thing -- can i just say the interesting thing, i love captain crunch. anyway, where's the milk? here we go. so you know the funny thing about that clip is -- she's sitting there going my husband's being -- oh, you want the reduced fat. he's healthy. i told you he was healthy. the interesting thing is, she's sitting there talking about -- i feel sorry for any family that has to go through this, i really do. but she's sitting there talking about her husband's being

persecuted because his religious faith. really? where the hell was she last week when her husband's supporter who he applauded -- can i have some cap'n crunch? saying mitt romney was a member of a cult going to hell. >> we're trying to wake people up here. >> does she expect people to feel sorry for her? >> i would feel sorry for her for what she said -- first of all if she didn't say we're being persecuted because we're the only christians and conservatives in the race because of her husband's faith. but the bottom line is -- i should have had frosted flakes. >> you should have. >> i screwed up again. >> joe -- >> oh, just in case. >> that's mine. >> in case of a nuclear blast, i need that. just a week ago, just a week ago, it's jeffress, if that's even how you say his name who is a romney -- who is a supporter

of perry who introduces perry at the values voter summit who perry applauds who says mitt romney's not a real christian. how can she just five days later say we're being picked on because we love jesus? >> i felt really bad for her. >> i do feel bad for her, but they need to keep her away from microphones. >> what did harry truman say? what did you think was going to happen when you got into a presidential race? did you think you were going to a badmitten tournament. i don't feel sorry for her. >> why did you say you did? >> i was being facetious. >> i don't appreciate this. i don't know what -- what inspired you to try and make this point. because this is all poison. >> it's not a point. >> fruit loops. >> your fruit loops are here. >> i did not know -- you know what? that's why -- >> can i tell you something?

look at this. a good source of fiber and made with whole grain. >> that is a joke. that is a joke. >> you're an ad man, how effective are the adorable characters they put on the front? don't those grab children in the supermarket? >> yes, actually, i think these throwbacks, the tony the tiger, this is great advertising. this is -- by the way, do you know his name? >> tucan sam. >> the agency is officially pitching froot loops now. a power breakfast. >> the key to sales has less to do with the advertising than shelf space in the supermarkets. cereals, they're all on the lower shelves so kids can grab them. >> and you've got little ones also at home, willie. all those parents, why don't your give your kids a healthy breakfast? it's like, whatever they will eat in the morning. >> if you're serving cap'n crunch, your child will eat

coconut oil, salt, niya 5, yellow -- >> we all ate for breakfast much worse versions of this. and guess what? i think we all look okay today. somehow we survived. we had lead in our cribs. >> paint chips. >> somehow we're all still here. >> no -- >> where's my cap'n crunch. >> is this what we call a slow news day? >> no, actually -- >> we should say for viewers who weren't with us yesterday. there's a report out yesterday that mika brought to our attention with the help of tom costello that they're trying to ban some of these adorable characters from advertising. they want to get rid of tony the tiger and lucky charm guy and everything else. >> what are you doing? >> i didn't even get my bowl yet. >> if you don't think i won't take the cereal out of there and eat it -- >> trust me -- >> you don't know me too well.

>> as i hold on to my lucky charms, you're not going to get ahold of my lucky charms. texas governor rick perry travels to pittsburgh today where he's set to give his first major policy address. the focus of the speech is expected to be energy. but the event may offer a chance to refocus a presidential campaign that has taken just a few hits after perry's performance in recent debates. the dallas morning news reports that perry's far-reaching plan would spark job growth by expanding oil drilling and pipelines and loosen environmental restrictions. perry offered a few more details of his proposal in a cnbc interview last night. >> we're sitting on a treasure-trove of energy in this country. there's 300 years worth of reserves underneath the land of america. and that's how we're going to get america working again. it's the fastest way. as the president of the united states, i'm going to ask

congress in the first 100 days to open up the federal lands and waters. to pull back those regulations stifling and killing jobs today and to rebuild the epa. >> herman cain's 9-9-9 -- do you want to talk about perry's plan? herman cain's plan continues to draw increased scrutiny. cain's proposal would reform the current tax code, cutting it down to 9% personal income tax, 9% corporate tax, and 9% sales tax. speaking to cnbc, cain's economic adviser rich lowrie offered this analysis of the plan's impact on struggling u.s. economy. >> give me the growth estimates. that's the key here. you're putting -- tell me how it's going to work out. >> $2 trillion of more gdp, 6 million jobs, business investment increases by a third, wages go up by 10%, and if you fold all that growth together, federal revenues go up by 15%.

>> this guy is just making this up! >> that's him. >> stop eating. >> are you allowed to do it in american politics? i was about to spit out my cap'n crunch, luckily i swallowed first. >> employment goes up -- >> wages skyrocket. >> let me tell you something. my plan, and i've got a plan too, 7-7-7. my plan actually is going to increase gdp by 24%, unemployment going to drop, 3 percentage points. i'm going to tell you, this plan 7-7-7 reduces male pattern baldness. you can say whatever you want to say. that accountant from connecticut is making it up. >> of course he is. >> he's making it up! it's entertainment. >> it's like -- >> i know what it's like. >> he was so sure of himself

too. >> it's improv. >> too much sugar. >> you should have seen me yesterday. >> the 9-9-9, forget solving erectile dysfunction. >> my plan, 7-7-7, gets you straight to heaven. >> and this comes from him being a godfather's pizza guy. buy one, get one free. >> exactly. >> just the fact it's simple, it might not be reasonable, and it's -- >> it's not real. >> it's not real, but it's a stake in the ground. >> seriously? >> and it's something, and in a mirage in the desert, you go for something. >> he was selling potato chips in 2008, and it's funny the same people on the left -- >> that's not -- >> what do you mean it's not true? he was a state senator! this was like selling soda to americans. hope and change, hope and

change. it's the same exact thing. americans bought it hook, line, and sinker. they could have got hillary clinton, someone who knew how to run washington, or they could have gone with a guy with a catchy phrase. >> they vote for an overall persona. >> and anybody on the left that is not willing to admit that you fell for it hook, line, and sinker back in '08, a soda campaign for hope and change are just like the people on the right that are still trying to tell themselves that 9-9-9 means anything other than 27. >> it says that the story is yet to be written. >> hope and change. >> there will be an independent candidate that will surface at this point. because all cain is saying -- it's a not vote. i don't want -- >> the first primary, eight weeks. >> independent, though. >> here's the problem, though. >> it will be -- i'm going to make a prediction, there'll be new math in this election we've never seen. how many -- >> now we're going to move on.

>> wait a second. herman cain, mike bloomberg, i've got $3 billion to $4 billion to spend, why not? and we, the press, i'm not going to let this election be over in six weeks. >> he didn't have to explain it until he was at 27% in the polls. now you're at 27%, you're top of the heap, now you've got to face the fire. >> and you've got to get rich lowrie from toledo to take a train in. did he come in on the greyhound? >> it's like an episode of "curb your enthusiasm," they're making it up. >> it's great. it's very entertaining. >> good stuff. >> and this too shall pass. >> it's pin code -- >> you sit here and go, why is this happening? why could a guy like herman cain come up and get a guy an accountant out of toledo or wherever it is. herman cain doesn't know where he is. >> on prime time. >> it's happening because mitt romney can't make the sale. there were two fascinating

comments yesterday, one from peggy noonan who is considered a more moderate tempered republican and one from rush limbaugh. listen to what they both said yesterday. i'm sure they weren't calling each other on the phone before they said it. peggy said people say mr. romney hasn't budged from roughly 25% support, but through every rise of every challenger, he hasn't lost a thing. he holds his position and the can grow. but watching him the other night, i thought his strength is his weakness. he is essentially a moderate. those who love him, love that best. those who don't hate it most. but he is a moderate man. and he is. and this is what rush limbaugh said yesterday -- and listen to the tone, friends. romney is not a conservative. he's not, folks. you can argue with me all day on that, but he isn't. this isn't personal. not what this country faces and so forth. i like him very much.

i've spent social time with him. he's a fine guy, a very nice gentleman, he is a gentleman, but he is not a conservative. and mika, rush limbaugh and peggy noonan are right. he is not a conservative. >> but you know you're hurting him terribly -- >> by saying he's not a conservative? >> why is that hurting him if we get to general election, by the way. that helps him. >> at this point, that's the hurdle, isn't it? >> there's no alternative at this point. he's betting that, you know what? i can play this game because basically by default i'm going to win. and then he's set up for all of those independent voters and all the swing states come next november. >> it's okay he's not a conservative? >> but it explains, though, mike why herman cain, michele bauchmann, republicans, conservative republicans who endured a eight years of big spending under george w. bush are desperate to try a true conservative, fiscal conservative out there that can win in the general. and right now they can't find

it. >> well, underlying can win in the general. and going back to rush limbaugh's statement. given his blow torch rhetoric, that's nearly an endorsement of mitt romney. he points out he's a fine guy, a gentleman, i spent social time with him. look, mitt romney is not a far right conservative. everybody knows that, but he's got to skate the edge of that party in order to get to where he can win in november. there's no way you win in november if you track really hard right. >> no doubt about it. two stories to get to. troubling report, another one, seems like we can't get enough of these about the state of the american economy in the "wall street journal." the journal's headline reading "bleak news for americans' income." this is something we've been talking about a lot here. says a steady drop is not expected to recover before 2021. the journal also reports that according to census data from 2000 to 2010, the median u.s.

income fell 7%. marking its worst ten-year performance since 1967. on average, economists expect inflation adjusted incomes to rise over the next decade, but the percent projected gain isn't enough to reach pre-recession levels. >> we're talking about these 50 economists, mika, are suggesting that we're going to have the lost decade, that we're not going to recover until 2021. >> guess what else was news yesterday. google beat estimates, stock up 5.5%. >> well, we're getting to that. although the majority of the 50 economists surveyed say the current generation of college graduates will have a higher standard of living than their parents, a third of respondents think it'll be lower, college graduates have generally faired better in the u.s. and currently have a 4.2% unemployment compared to 9.1% for the entire workforce. but a college degree hasn't been enough to ensure wage gains from

2000 through 2010. only advance degree holders manage to record increases in earnings over that period. >> so i started to bring this up yesterday. we've all been celebrating. everybody's been celebrating the genius of steve jobs. and steve jobs, my gosh. i celebrate the genius of steve jobs. but somebody talking about the passing of steve jobs and the passing of american era also brought up a frightening statistic. just historical trends are frightening. you add up all the people that work for google, yahoo, facebook, for apple, for five or six of the top tech giants, mike, those six or seven huge tech companies that we always embrace and say look where america is. they employ 2/3 less than the number of people that worked at gm in 1980. put another way, take 1/3 of the

workforce at gm in 1980, more people work there than worked in all of these six, seven, eight high-tech companies that we always point to and say, yeah, but look what we're doing now. it's not a replacement for the working class. >> no, you look at the occupy wall street movement. you know, much of the grievances are absolutely legitimate. absolutely legitimate. and yet the after effect of the whatever is going on with the financial services community in this country is going to result in far fewer people working. >> right. >> there's no doubt. far fewer people are going to be working. they're going to be laying off people. >> and they aren't going to be as painful as it sounds, big factories where guys go in and punch a time card and work by thousands in this tech industry. and that's the challenge that president obama has and the congress has. to find a way to put all those people back to work or in those

jobs and not in those kinds of jobs. >> the new math, energy, that's going to be based on a technology model. the savior industry is built the same way. >> what we're going to have to do is we can't just hope for a new steve jobs to rise from the west. we've got to roll up our shirt sleeves, we've got to do it -- we've got to get dirty. got to sweat it out, we've got to go to europe. we've got to tell car manufacturers, we can build your cars better here. and it's not going to be like gm in 1980, but maybe we get 5,000 jobs here, maybe we get 5,000 jobs there. we're going to have to do the big things like create apples, but also the small things. 1,000 small things to get people back to work. >> but first we have to -- that's going to take a while. we have to deal with the simmering anger out there. let me get the occupy wall street story in there. i'm going to make the edits, alex. we're not going to do the park part. millions take a stand against

this economic inequality we're seeing are posting all over the web at this point about where and when to gather. while protesters are rallying in several major u.s. cities, police have arrested half dozen people in portland. the fight in dallas goes to court over the request to get an indefinite permit. and thousands of dollars being raised for the protest on the internet. in poland of all places, it makes sense when you hear the name, he supports the movement against corporate greed. in an interview with the associated press, he says people are what matter, we cannot accept a situation when capitalism is making huge money and does not know what to do with it. it should invest in new jobs, people are most important. >> you know what this movement needs? one is obvious, one is not so obvious. everybody's saying they need some -- they need to clarify, they need policy issues. this is what we want. the other thing it needs and i don't want this to come out the wrong way. if we think -- not needs, but will happen.

if you think back to the late 60s, what is the most stirring image of all of the rebellion that happened, what do we remember? i'm not saying somebody has to get killed -- but there will be a climax moment of class warfare somehow played out on screen that i think will the same way 9-9-9, if you will, kind of simplifies a message, that articulates this clash. so both the real clarification in terms of policy and, unfortunately, some imagery says to america, and i think those are the two things -- >> we hope. >> i'm saying something that we are a visual society that visualizes -- >> i would hope and i'm sure the police officers around this country understand it. >> unfortunately, it's going to come to that. >> there are great people out there that are protesting what's going on, but there are also some provocateurs who are trying to do something so they can --

let's hope that doesn't happen. >> for a guy that eats froot loops, you're pretty smart. and the block's over and it's all off the set. >> compare eating froot loops -- you just -- aaron bates will meet us, david gregory, and eugene robinson. plus, don't miss willie's weekend review. but first, your weekend forecast with bill karins. good morning, mika. one more day of rain out there for new england, and we'll have a decent weekend. let me show you who needs the umbrella this morning. a batch of rain heading through upstate new york. also vermont and new hampshire, get ready. look to the south, we have another batch of rain, all of this green is rain up through virginia. that's going to rotate up through washington, d.c. so the forecast for today, we are cloudy, we are damp, it's not going to rain all day. there'll be periods of downpours all over new england in the mid-atlantic. we're looking pretty good through the southeast and the midwest. as we go through your weekend, be prepared, it's going to get very windy from the great lakes

all the way through sunday into new england. it's going to be a dry weekend just about everywhere, but it'll be very windy. we haven't had a windy weekend like this in a long time. you're watching "morning joe" on this friday. brewed by starbucks. [ wind howling ]

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25 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. the "new york times" says for the second time this year, legal officials have chosen not to prosecute former imf chief dominic strauss-kahn on sexual assault charges. french prosecutors said despite evidence againof an assault, st of limitations expired. haley barbour had warm words for herman cain. take a listen. >> if this election is what it ought to be, and that is a referendum on how president

obama's done, republicans are going to win. if herman cain is our nominee running against barack obama, i think he'll sweep the south. >> yeah. okay. >> here's one from our parade of papers. the new jersey star ledger says drivers over the garden state parkway are leaving behind everything beside money when they go through the toll plaza exact change lanes. toll operates are seeing a boom in chuck-ee cheese coins. starting monday, the state will use cameras to monitor those who try to cheat the tolls. and steven spielberg will soon be in richmond to shoot his new movie "lincoln." >> that's going to be awesome. >> this is great. >> oscar winners daniel day lewis and sally field will star in the film. that's going to be amazing.

and a look at this week's "parade" magazine. vanderbilt plays georgia this weekend. >> and on the front of the "new york post," "footloose." >> that's what mike's looking for. >> that looks bad. it actually looks painful. >> but i'll tell you what, it's getting really good reviews. >> really? >> younger people are going to watch it. and everybody from the '80s are going to watch it. >> that's going to make $1 trillion. >> and willie and i are going to see it at the holiday inn smoking cigarettes. >> don't repaint the mona lisa, just let kevin bacon do it. >> we're old, aren't we? hello, john. >> good morning, willie. >> let's talk a little money here. president obama released

yesterday his third quarter fund-raising numbers, and they are impressive. >> they are impressive. he raise ed about $70 million, y more than anyone on the republican side of the field. we do need to put these numbers in context. first off, if president obama has trouble for reelection next year, it's going to have nothing to do with money, he's going to have all the money he needs. the other thing we know is we need to reassess the narrative that got going early in the cycle that president obama is going to be this formidable, unbeatable financial force. these numbers are good, but they're not that great. they are less in real terms and certainly less in inflation adjusted terms than president bush raised during the same period eight years ago in 2003. bush, by the way, did it with about half the fundraisers. so obama's working harder for the same actually a little bit less money. >> you got a quote in the piece from a senior republican official who said compared to bush in 2003, president obama's having to work harder to raise

the money he has coming in. why is that? >> that's true, but also a lot of small donors go to that $70 million, way more than on the republican side. the republican advantage, of course, is they've got all these outside groups raising tons and tons of money. there'll be financial parody between the two sides next year. >> donny, i know some people who have bundled more money for this president than anybody else. and when i sit across the table with them for lunch, i'm genuinely fascinated. i want to hear a spirited defense of president obama. so i'll say, hey, i see you're one of his biggest fundraisers, what am i missing? and they'll look down and they'll say, you're not missing anything. he's terrible. and i'm like, well, why are you raising $5 million for him? >> they've got no choice, they said. >> every obama supporter i know has switched to the other side this time around. >> which may be, willie, why we're where we are right now where the president's not raising as much as we thought. when somebody raises millions of dollars for a politician and still can't come up with a

spirited defense for him. and again, i'm open. i want to hear what are we missing? what's the narrative? i want somebody to be excited and say this is what you're missing. and mika will tell you that neither one of us here -- >> the only defense is and it's a very flimsy defense. with that republican congress he couldn't do it -- it's the republicans. and nobody could get through that -- it's a flimsy defense. >> i would be a lot more aggressive making the defense even though i may not believe it if i were the president i'd make the defense because i know he believed it. he saved the economy, between t.a.r.p. and the auto bailouts, he saved an industry, a region, a country -- that should be his argument. >> you don't hear that. >> no. >> thanks so much. have a good weekend. we'll talk to you. >> thanks, guys. on the brink of an elimination, the detroit tigers turned to the best arm in baseball. major league baseball highlights next in sports. ♪

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time for some sports. the nlcs, the suds series they're calling it.

found themselves in a two games to one hold. in st. louis, cards jump out to an early lead against milwaukee's randy wolf, matt holliday sneaking one across for a home run. long ball to center field, cardinals out to a 2-0 lead, but that's all they got off wolf who settled down and looked good. striking out six, top of the fourth, brewers get on the board. runner on second, lines running center. harriston waved around third, pujols' throw is there in time. sneaks a hand in before the tag gets down. >> nice slide. nice slide. >> that ties the game at two. huge play there. next inning with a man on third, ryan braun. .471. >> he's a superstar. >> milwaukee beats the cardinals 3- 2.

they play game five tonight in st. louis and head back to milwaukee. in the american league, the tigers and rangers, texas needs one more win to go to the world series. detroit resting its hopes, though, in a pretty good place, that guy, justin verlander. game tied at two. he gets kinsler to ground into an easy double play, and cabrera keeps swinging a big bat, a line drive, rbi double, a little help from the third-base bag. it hits the bag and skips over the head of adrian beltre. same inning, young -- >> the oblique muscle. >> his is second home run of the game, fifth of the playoffs. >> you see the hit of that cycle? >> a natural cycle. look at this guy, nelson cruz from texas in the eighth doing it again. turning on 100-mile-an-hour fastball. verlander seven in the third giving up four runs. texas down two, tieing run on

first, phil koch on the mound and a little forceout at second play. detroit hangs on to win 7-5, rangers play again on saturday. >> those are great series. >> great series. >> great series. >> they are. >> champs. >> michael young at bat, verlander on the mound, throwing two 100-mile-an-hour fastballs at him and then an 80 miles an hour curve ball. >> forget about it. >> can the tigers come back? >> they can. they've got to win two games in texas. they're playing with hurt guys right now. >> their superstars are delivering. as opposed to the yankees, the phillies -- >> that's right. we were talking about that yesterday. cruz, braun, those guys. >> finding a way to get up -- >> i don't know how they do it, joe scarborough. >> you know, it's a lot like us. i mean, we have to get up every morning. you've got to find a way. and there's always sort of a,

you know, secret sauce to it. >> which is? >> froot loops and dedication and our intern. >> is he still an intern? >> yeah. he came in from -- >> our intern came in from fire island last night and put this together to show you how we win. >> so what's the secret to our success? we practice like champions, we work like champions, and we play like champions. any questions? ♪

♪ >> and we eat like champions. any questions? i didn't think so. >> play like champions! go time! >> it's dedication. it's discipline. you've got to go back, willie geist after you had that second big mac and go for a third. you've got to pack it on. >> disgusting. >> some say it's disgusting to eat fast food under an overpass at 4:00 in the morning. >> it's how we create the magic

we create. >> i finally got into that stadium. it took me two days and it took every door. >> tommy ford did a great job for us. can you believe what -- no, and she was running -- she was running the stadium steps and lewis was filming it. >> lewis did a good job. >> you keep working. you may move beyond internship. good job, my man. i'm going -- i invite all my friends that watch the show in new york city, come to the underpass at 58, we'll share a big mac together. must reads are next. you name it.

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street. the villainy of the rich theme. a child is born, occupy wall street. starbucks-sipping, levi's-clad denounce corporate america even as they weep for steve jobs, a corporate titan billionaire eight times over. saddled with their $50,000 student loans and english degrees and decide that their lack of gainful employment is rooted in the malice of the millionaires' homes whose homes they are now marching. and salivating at the energy these big government anarchists will presumably give their cause except that the real tea party actually had a program. less government, less regulation, less taxation, less debt. what's the occupy wall street program? eat the rich. >> mike? >> well, you know, i'm sticking with my original thesis that there's a number of legitimate

grievances within the occupy wall street movement. they're on the wrong street. they should be outside washington where a lack of regulation for eight to ten years has resulted in many of these inequities. where a lack of total inability to reform the tax code in this country has resulted in huge inequities in terms of income and what people pay in taxes and wages remaining stagnant for ten years. >> there's no doubt they're on the wrong street, donny deutsch. banks were able to leverage because washington, d.c. allowed them to leverage 30 to 40 to 1. banks lowered standards for mortgages and made lots of money on it. they did because fannie and freddie first lowered standards by guess whom? well, you know, by the very people who are now yelling at wall street. >> so the kinds of things that you guys are talking about here, which i don't think anybody can

argue. the mood begins to grow up. you partner the editorial with what you guys are saying. it needs to have a grown-up tone. even though you didn't or i, obviously, the tea party repulses me, there was an adultness to it. there's a child-like -- even though the message is right. >> why did the tea party repulse you? >> well, basically, exactly what you said. it feels like just a bunch of kids yapping instead of, hey, this is wrong, this has to change, and this is where we have to go. >> but it's not. >> what do they stand for? other than we don't like the rich? >> they profile all the different types of people down there. there's definitely -- >> of course it's different, but you look at it. isn't there -- it needs more gravitas, it doesn't have gravitas. >> why were you repulsed by the tea party? and why do you think this protest is more worthy than -- >> i didn't say it was more worthy. >> you said you agree with what

they're doing down there, but you were repulsed by the tea party. >> i always felt there was a certain undertone -- >> a middle americanness -- >> no, i think there was a -- there seemed to be more hate involved for lack of a better word. >> really. well, they're going to the homes now. >> they're going to the homes and if they could drag people out and beat them, they would. seriously, donny, you know, nothing. you just take that pink tie with you to kansas. >> i was waiting -- i'm sorry 8:47, it took an hour -- no, wait i always get confused, 6:47, it took you 47 minutes to comment on my pink tie. >> you've got 12 watches that cost $1 million each. >> timex. a timex watch. what watch are you wearing, mr. big shot. what watch are you wearing? >> paul krugman is talking about

rabbit hole economics. >> timex watch. changes topics. >> we've run out of time, donny. which you are very quickly doing. the "new york times" -- >> i guess those people on twitter are right. go ahead. >> the gop has responded to the crisis not by rethinking its dogma, but adopting a cruder version of that dogma, becoming a caricature of itself. the host played a clip of ronald reagan calling for increased revenue. today no politician hoping to get anywhere in reagan's party would dare say such a thing. it's a terrible thing when an individual loses his or her grip on reality, but it's much worse when the same thing happens to a whole political party, one that already has the power to block anything the president proposes and which may soon control the whole government. hmm. >> willie, what do you think? >> well, this is the defense of president obama. we talked about it earlier, he has good intentions, he wants to fix things, and he doesn't have

a partner in washington that's willing to work with him. he's bumping his head against the wall -- >> then go out in the middle of the ring and throw some punches, you know, rather than just sit back and make speeches. >> i don't disagree. look inside, man. get with the cops and the firefighters and say this is what you want, right? >> listen to joe, the greatest vice president in the history -- >> right. and listen to willie. when willie gets angry, he simmers and then he creates something magical. like the weekend review, that's coming up next. >> this is a promotion machine. [ horn honks ]

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different look we just gave. >> what was the look? >> it's the time. can we do that again? i wasn't ready. >> three, two, one -- >> oh, is it time, willie? >> it is. >> okay. wow. where is t.j. today? so willie, it's amazing, t.j.'s on his anniversary. he's got the remote where he is in his motel, right? and it's right off the interstate near scranton and he's able to screw it up for us. >> i was going to make a joke he was in scranton, that's the most bizarre -- >> he actually is. >> have you ever been to scranton for an anniversary?

>> tempers could be a bit on the short side over the next 24 hours. >> scranton people are some of the best people. >> i don't know what's happening right now. so let's go to the "weekend review." ♪ >> at number three, when world leaders dance. ♪ venezuelan president hugo chavez showed this week he's in touch with kids by doing backup dancing for a young rapper. while chavez groupies shriek with delight, there's a unilateral response. president obama's on-rhythm dancing represents a departure from the foreign policy of the previous administration.

if nothing else, chavez's dancing on the international stage provides the best political dance in history. at number two, on your right -- >> oh, holy cow! >> a youtube sensation when an antelope buck took out a mountain biker during a race. >> whoa! >> reporter: somehow the rider suffered only minor injuries and a cracked helmet in the beast's epic takedown. that's why we can in good conscience show it to you on a continuous loop. >> whoa! >> whoa! >> reporter: and the number one story of the week. >> there's a difference between the flavor of the week and this

because it tastes good all the time. >> herman cain jumped to the front of the presidential field this week beating the american public into submission with his economic plan. >> this is why we developed 9-9-9, this 9-9-9 plan. >> i have put my 9-9-9 plan on the table. remember, 9-9-9 plan. 9-9-9 is bold. my top priority is 9-9-9. >> with all that economic planning, mr. cain simply does not have time to learn the leaders of made up far away lands. >> when they asked me who is the president of ubeki-stan-stan, i don't know. >> meanwhile, chris christie supports mitt romney. >> mitt romney's the man we need to lead america, and we need him now. >> reporter: that press conference was eerily foretold on saturday night live a few

days earlier. >> he's a nice man in a suit that wants to be president. >> romney's been a good part of this week's debate figuratively sending rick perry to his room without dinner. >> i'm still speaking. i'm still speaking. >> reporter: all perry could do was to sit there and stew. and imagine a giant antelope knocking mitt romney off a bicycle. >> it was awesome, it was good. awesome debate. >> it was an awesome debate. >> it was an awesome debate. >> that was good, willie. >> he went over to his fraternity and talked about when the revolutionary war began in the 16th century. >> was it not the 16th century? >> no, not the 1500s, only a quarter of millennium off. the reverend al sharpton and eric bates. we'll be right back on "morning joe." titles corner offices don't win.

what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. oh, there's a prize, all right. [ male announcer ] inside every box of cheerios are those great-tasting little o's made from carefully selected oats that can help lower cholesterol. is it a superhero?

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you know who's soaring in the polls now, herman cain. i like him, he's a tough-talking straight-shooter. and he's got this plan called the 9-9-9 plan. do you know anything about it? well, if you don't, we have put together for you an educational video. get to know the 9-9-9 plan. here, watch this. >> the 9-9-9 plan takes the complex issue of taxing americans fairly and makes it simple. u.s. citizens under the age of 9 pay a 9% flat tax, while citizens older than 9 but older than 99 pay a 9% flat tax plus a

9% sales tax. the 9-9-9 plan does not tax individuals older than 99, corporations pay a 9% tax on revenues with installments payable on the 9th of each month. qualifying for a .9% reduction in the 9% flat tax on those contributions. >> the 9-9-9 plan. >> that's right. >> top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsch is still with us. >> unfortunately. >> and joining us is the president of the national action network reverend al sharpton. >> good morning. >> we also have the executive editor of "rolling stone" magazine, eric bates. >> it's good to have you back here. >> good to be here. >> great stuff. so reverend sharpton, we've been talking, the column last hour, talking about how the protests were unfocused, the wall street

protests. what's your take on it right now? >> i think that they have really brought home the idea that the country cannot be controlled by 1%. i think when i went down last monday and spent the day, if the objective was to show the economic disparity in the country, they've succeeded in it. the whole country's talking about it. 1,400 cities have gone up. i don't think every movement is designed in the same model. they're not designed toward that. we're having a big jobs march tomorrow around the king memorial weekend. that's for a specific goal. their goal was to say that they do not feel the top 1% should control -- >> so if their goal is to get people talking about the income disparity that we've talked about on this show before and a lot of people are about between the rich and poor, you would say they've succeeded. >> they've succeeded. and that's what they said their goal was. they're different from unions all the way to people that don't

believe in government. but they're united around their 99% and 1% shouldn't control. >> do you think that specific -- i think people understand versus have nots. that, no, they haven't even articulated that? >> well, i think when you keep seeing people saying 99% as opposed to 1%, i think they have articulated that. i think that people understand because of the drama and because of the impact that there is a serious economic disparity that people have just to the point of going to the streets, they're not going to take it anymore. and i think that's a good message. >> but would you also acknowledge at this point they need a solution? they need something to rally around instead of just saying nah nah nah, they need someone to come forward and say this is what we want. >> that may not be their model. maybe they want government and industry and others to come

forth. maybe it's them to press society to get a solution to saying that people are so desperate that they will do this. >> while we're on the topic of that. let's put a microscope on the issue of occupy wall street in new york. new york city's deputy mayor says the planned cleaning of the site where occupy wall street protesters have gathered for more than a month has been postpo postponed. this comes hours after an anonymous official told nbc news that it appears the park's owners may be backing down from their demands to clean the park this morning along with michael bloomberg, demonstrators were told earlier this week they must remove tents and sleeping bags so the park could be cleaned for sanitation reasons. the mayor had a rocky start with this group as he trying to get his arms around -- everybody is. the conversation has been run the gamut in terms of what this movement means if it's a movement. meanwhile, demonstrators are preparing for tomorrow's international day of protest. from melbourne to new york.

the millions are taking a stand against economic inequality. and they're posting about this on the web about where and when to gather. while protesters are rallying in several major u.s. cities, police have arrested half dozen people in portland. the fight in dallas goes to court over a request for an indefinite permit. and in boston, thousands of dollars have been raised for the protests on the internet. now, let's go to poland, shall we? where the former president says he supports the movement against corporate greed telling the "associated press" that people are saying, "we cannot accept a situation when capitalism is making huge money and then does not know what to do with it. it should invest in new jobs." >> "rolling stone" also has written a story about the protests this week. tell us about it. >> matt taibi has been covering wall street financial regulation for us and making the same point

that there's going to reach a point where this movement has to have a specific set of concrete demands. he proposes some very specific ones, you know, that were passed over in financial regulation by congress. >> why don't you talk about the three he meant. i thought they were great. >> what i want to say first, though, it's interesting to me how everybody's jumping on this movement. first, every movement in history that happens. you go back to the civil rights movement, sds in the '60s. >> not disparaging, just that it needs to go to the next level. >> but everybody says that at the beginning. look at the tea party at this point. it was a bunch of people walking around with tea bags on their hats. all kinds of demands. it wasn't until the summer and the town hall protests to begin to find its focus. and it was centrally funded and coordinated by dick armey and others. this is a much more loosely

affiliated group of young people coming together to do this on their own. i think the idea that they don't have their act together misses the point at this point because as reverend sharpton said, they're about consciousness raising. >> i think the fact that people are crying out says that the movement is working, otherwise people wouldn't care at this point. >> let's move to your cover story in "rolling stone." and just a fascinating quote by jeff goodall. he wrote about the steve jobs that nobody knew. this is fascinating. this is what he said. when uh first met steve jobs, i thought he was a loser. what i remember about him was he would storm around the office yelling and how he wore tattered jeans and how everyone seemed to be afraid of him. i knew his type. uneducated, blustery, a guy who thinks a lot of himself. to me he just seemed like a lost hippie kid and i was not terribly interested. >> wow. >> fascinating. >> whoops. >> great story by jeff. he goes on to say that he was so

uninterested, he left to do something more interesting, deal blackjack in tahoe and missed out on apple. he's known steve really since the beginning and this is an eye-opening portrait of how he started off -- steve started off as a very insecure kind of loner hippie kid. didn't know what he wanted to do, had big ideas, because really a seeker, looking for enlightenment, went to india, dabbled in a lot of different kinds of things trying to find his way. have a very interesting side bar to the piece written by his first girlfriend about the summer they lived together in a cabin in coopertino in the summer of '72 and jobs would stay up late at night rewriting bob dylan lyrics into his own poems. not rewriting very much and would post them on the door. and she said he was trying to find himself through the lyrics of bob dylan. >> how fascinating before we came on, i was talking about the "rolling stone" beatles special

that went album by album. and i read everything about the beatles over the past 1/4 century. but the beatles weren't always the beatles. and when i first met the beatles, i thought they were good. it took me working with them three albums for me to realize they were slowly becoming something great. they were slowly evolving. it's not like god zapped them. it wasn't until the middle of the third album when he looked at john and paul and said, okay, they're coming up with a formula that could change the world. sounds like the same thing with steve jobs. he was a "loser" who had to find his way, who had to go to india, who had to be fired, who had to go through hardship to figure out that formula that the beatles figured out 30 years ago. >> that's right. jeff makes a point that his greatest invention was himself before he did any of the things he did with apple or pixar, he had to create himself. they were 17-year-olds living

together, no money, got a $25 parking ticket, they were walking in san francisco and she was just very anxious about the fact that they had no money. steve jobs responded at 17 years old by reaching into his pocket, pulling out the last few bills and change they had and throwing it in the ocean. and she bust out laughing. but that kind of sense that he would make it no matter what i think was there from the start. >> and he did create himself. there was a story of how even his attire, the jeans and the mock turtle neck were all an invention. if cameras came, he would change clothes and then put those on because he had invented himself. >> he was very savvy about controlling every single detail all along the process when a color didn't exist for a computer, he would have a special color invented to be just the right one he thought it needed. >> there's a way to tie steve jobs to the occupy wall street

controversy or story through the words. i'll just get to this, though, in the "wall street journal" to frame the discussion. gosh, the headline, bleak news for americans' income saying the steady drop in u.s. income is not expected to recover before 2021. "the journal" also reports according to census data from 2000 to 2010, the median u.s. income fell 7%, marking its worst ten-year performance since 1967. on average, economists expect inflation adjusted incomes to rise over the next decade, but the expected percent gain is not enough to reach prerecession levels. >> it used to be over the past 40, 50, 60 years, the middle class could rest comfortably in their suburban homes and talk about the poor, the unemployed, and very rarely have it reach in to their homes, in their neighborhoods. it's there now.

and it's getting worse. >> no, and that is not only what you're seeing with occupation wall street. i think you're seeing it at many different levels. the middle class who always had some sense of security now has the real sense of urgency. some of are the kids of occupation wall street, tomorrow others are expressing the different ways. but this is real. we have never seen a decline in income and decline in security over the american middle class like we have now. and we've got to change how we deal with the economic decisions in this country. the american people are not going to stand for business to continue in the way it's been going. >> so we're looking at live pictures right now of the protests that's taking place right now in new york city. already the park is full. and let me read now the words of charles kradhammer. the scapegoat strategy to the villainy of the rich theme

emanating from washington, a child is born. occupy wall street. starbucks-sipping, levi's-clad, iphone clutching protesters denounce corporate america even as they weep for steve jobs, corporate titan, billionaire eight times over. these indignant indolents saddled with their $50,000 student loans and english degrees have decided their lack of gainful employment is rooted in the malice of the millionaires on whose homes they are now marching. to the applause of democrats suffering acute tea party envy. >> i want to ask you one thing that's fascinating here about the protesters. and i want to pick up on steve jobs. how is it that steve jobs -- a guy who was a billionaire many times over has become an icon? not only for wall street but for the people who are marching against wall street. >> i think it's a lot of what eric was talking about. he is kind of the melding of the

two. a guy outside of the box, did it his way, came from nothing, kind of conquered corporate america. in the end, he ended up being completely establishment, but his entire brand, the brilliance of apple was even as it became the second largest corporation on the planet, they still had an anti-establishment -- >> and that's the genius of steve jobs and apple. they were able to be establishment and anti-establishment. >> they came out of this very west coast culture and they came out of the '60s. and they applied those kind of broader principles and broader feelings about the world to what they did. steve jobs made something. wall street hasn't made anything. wall street has taken. wall street has created these fictional products that cratered the world economy. and krauthammer is clueless when he says that about the protesters. they're people that have been

wronged, all the american people have by criminal actions. >> they're protesting the reality. >> he got rich on his own creativity against what was the status quo. he didn't use loopholes and capital gains to do what he did. >> jobs actually created things that touched main street -- >> exactly. >> a lot of the billionaires on wall street, quite frankly, have figured out how to use credit default swaps and -- >> apple didn't go to them. >> that's what america's all about. those people in the park. however we break it down. >> it's 7:15 in the morning. >> he was saying the same thing a couple years ago when the tea partiers were in the streets. >> he was there. >> despite the fact he said they disgusted him just 30 minutes ago. >> exactly. how a liverpool art student with a rough childhood came to change the face of pop music

everywhere. that's ahead. and also, up next , is hermn cain the real deal? no. you're watching "morning joe." brewed by starbucks.

what specific steps will you take to hold iran accountable? especially when mitt romney charged last week, "if you do not want america to be the strongest nation on earth, i am not your president. you have that president today." >> well, i didn't know you were the spokesperson for mitt romney. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike, what do you think about that? poor ed henry. he goes over to fox from cnn and carney's pounding him a couple weeks -- i guess he's not supposed to ask a question.

>> i'm not in the advice business, and i don't know -- >> none of us are. >> it would seem to me that there are plenty of targets for the president to run against. a republican congress that won't pass anything because they hate him so much. eight years of deregulation that has resulted, out with legitimate grievances because no one said anything to all of these ridiculous instruments that they cooked up to ruin the economy. there's enough to run against without running against ed henry and fox. >> it's embarrassing. it really is embarrassing. don't shoot down as pat buchanan always says. david, great to see you here. you know what? this weekend, the round table, it's not going to be centered around three words. >> oh, no. >> not going to be centered around three numbers, one number repeated three times. quickly, 9-9-9. look at this, the "washington post" talking about 9-9-9 for you and your family.

nine minutes in the week, nine minutes in the weekend, nine -- mci's new plan. >> nine minutes on "meet the press." >> let's talk about mr. cain's nine minutes of fame. >> what a moment. herman cain has done a lot, but he's really in a moment now. he is a front-runner according to our poll, the "wall street journal" nbc news poll. and he's going to be on "meet the press" to answer questions about where he's headed. he's in an interesting moment ru right now, you look at, a, what's catapulting him? he's got a good message, consistent message, and very much the anti-washington. i was thinking about this last night and this morning. when mitt romney says sometimes simple solutions are easy and they're sort of inadequate, the point is cain has been saying there's beauty in that simplicity, and indeed, a lot of republican voters are responding to that. they're not interested in big

campaigns right now. meeting all the conventional wisdom. they like that he's an outsider, that he's got this kind of message and that he's shaping up to be a kind of antiromney even though he did endorse romney in 2008. >> it's stunning. the it's stunning. do you have a question for david? i've got a thousand. >> well, the question we asked in the tease is, is he the real deal? does herman cain seem like the real deal at this point or a flavor, david? >> well, i don't think we know yet. >> really? >> by every measure that we use, he's the real deal. he's ahead of mitt romney in our polling among republican voters. he is clearly outdebating a lot of his competitors in this republican race in debate after debate. so these are the metrics that we're using in terms of how he's resinating with voters out there. we haven't actually started voting, so we don't really know. but we know that he is making a mark, he's making an impact, getting more scrutiny now.

so of course he's the real deal right now at a time when people are fed up with politics, and particularly at time when republicans are not particularly enamored of their front-runner, and that is mitt romney. the race was frozen when chris christie looked like he was going to get into the case. there's no question that romney has a strong machine. perry comes in the race, he's up and quickly down. but here comes cain all the way along with a consistent message making an impact. i think you have to view him on his face right now. and look, yes, haas going to face questions about what he does at this moment. who are his advisers are, how he sees running the federal government. and now is the time to answer those questions. >> who his adviser is, it's singular in this case. so al sharpton, let's stop, take a snapshot of where america is right now. it's going to be exciting for you. a civil rights leader. you've been fighting for years for people like herman cain. and so herman -- i mean

seriously, though, the lead obviously democratic presidential candidate right now, an african-american. the lead republican challenger right now, an african-american. now, of course, when a republican a african-american does well in american politics, nobody talks about that rags to riches story. but herman cain's rags to riches story is an incredible one. >> no doubt about it. i think herman cain has in many ways become what a lot of us fought for. we don't agree with them. i think the problem with herman cain is going to be in the substance. and he keeps attacking black americans saying we're brainwashed or we're trying to -- we just disagree with him. colin powell is republican, we respect him. he has not taken the positions that herman cain has. so he shouldn't confuse him being a republican conservative with him having a program that does not make sense. >> it's still exciting, though. >> it's a good slogan --

9-9-9 -- it's exciting to have an african-american republican maybe facing an african-american democrat. i don't think that'll happen. the real story here, joe -- i hate to be politically this early in the morning. from donald trump, sarah palin, michele bauchmann, nobody's been able to move mitt romney out of the way. everybody keeps saying he doesn't go up, but he doesn't go down. none of these guys have been able to get romney out of the race. >> and romney can't finish making the sale. david gregory, earlier this morning, we read a quote from peggy noonan and rush limbaugh, two different sides of the republican party both saying the same thing. basically saying i like mitt romney. he's a good man. he's a decent man. but he's not a conservative. now, of course, rush limbaugh would say now is not the time for moderation.

but more fascinating is the fact that peggy noonan said the same thing. now is not the time for moderation. >> right. and joe, i remember talking to conservatives in 2008 who said that conservatives in the republican party simply don't trust mitt romney. they didn't feel he was authentic. the political epiphanies he went through in running against ted kennedy simply had slowed him down in the conservative movement, never really to pick up the pace yet again. and i think he's still hobbled by that at a time, by the way, when the tea party is going to have a big impact on the nominee of this party. if romney wins, he's still an establishment choice. the revenge of the establishment in the republican party. there's still going to be a real grass roots impact from the conservative movement on what kind of nominee he becomes. here's the other piece. right now, there's so much energy against president obama. everybody on the conservative -- in the republican party among conservatives wants the

anti-obama. is that mitt romney? the truth is they both have a technicratic style. >> i want to show you, david, anita perry, the wife of rick perry. she's saying her husband's campaign has been brutalized. and also rick perry responded to his wife's statements this morning on "today." take a listen. >> this has been a rough month. i don't have to tell you we've been brutalized and beaten up and chewed up in the press. we're being brutalized by our opponents and our own party. so much of that is i think they look at him because of his faith. he's the only true conservative -- well, there's some conservatives, but -- and they're there for good reasons. and they may feel like god called them too. but i truly feel like we are here for that purpose. >> family members always take these campaigns a little more

personally than the candidates do. i've been shot at and missed and shot at and hit for 20 years running for public office. and being the chief executive officer of the state of texas, we have our ups and downs, but the fact is, those are just distractions. >> you know, the reports are coming out, david gregory, that a sense of pity, self-pity has overtaken the perry camp. and i'm not talking about mrs. perry. >> she looks really hurt. >> and i would say, though, to say we're being attacked because of our faith a couple of days a after mitt romney was attacked because of his faith rings a little hollow. but that said, the perry campaign is right now in a bunker. and it's just not looking good for them. one poll has him down at 5%. >> look, i mean -- this governor

of texas is known as one of the great campaigners in the republican party. yet we really have that -- we have yet to see that. i mean, you talk about a break down -- >> that's one way to put it. he shot himself in the foot so much, he doesn't have -- both feet are gone. he's up to his knees now. >> mrs. perry is a very experienced political figure in her own right in the state of texas. to say her husband is brutalized in this process. her husband called social security a ponzi scheme and was piled on by other conservatives or other republicans in the race if you don't think mitt romney is a conservative. but he wasn't the only one that said that was a really dangerous position for the party to take. so again, i think on a day -- on a day when he wants to talk about jobs and security, he's got to answer for that. it shows they have not steadied themselves. >> you know, mike, the problem with rick perry is, most of the wounds -- he's talking about people shot at him and his wife saying he's brutalized.

his wounds are almost entirely self-inflicted. and i watched him on the stage the other night and i felt sorry for him because he looked scared up there. he looked like a guy that realized he's in the wrong league. he needs to go back home. he looks scared. >> he looked lost and you could actually hear going through his mind. why did i listen to those people in june and july who said, hey, listen, why don't you run? it'll be fun, with no preparation. joe? >> yes? >> don't let your wife look at the tweets about you. >> exactly. >> that's what happened. >> last night as i was going to bed, you know what she said? stop interrupting mika. i said why? she said because i've been reading these tweets and they're going to think you do that at home too. >> that's the funniest video i've ever seen. >> me interrupting you a thousand times? >> yeah, it's great. it's what's great about our show. >> you know what's better? >> what? >> david gregory. it's going to be exciting.

with herman cain. on "meet the press." also tim pawlenty and bobby jindal. >> oh, my goodness. we'll be watching sunday morning. david, thank you so much. >> thanks, guys. >> we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." looking good! you lost some weight. you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution,

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rick perry was born to be a politician. you could tell from the first time he lost at marbles. >> wait, we need to change these results. >> excellent work, mary. >> as he grew up, he couldn't be bothered to learn the u.s. constitution. >> well, i respect your view, mr. caron, this grade should be referred to a group of unelected leaders. >> now rick perry wants to change the 17th amendment and he opposes the national vote plan. tell rick perry that people matter more than politicians. support the national popular vote initiative. >> interesting. that was the latest ad from the national popular vote initiative. a group that advocates an interstate compact guaranteeing giving states electoral votes to candidates who win the popular vote. the group has launched their new campaign in iowa targeting texas governor rick perry. and joining us from des moines, the national popular vote

initiatives national spokesperson tom galisano. >> great to have you on again. >> good morning. >> let's tep everybody again really quickly what's this about. states are trying to come together in a compact that whoever wins the vote popularly wins the election. >> yes, basically that's it, joe. the national popular vote is trying to set up a situation where the candidate that gets the most votes nationwide wins the election. four times in our history the candidate with the least number of votes became president of the united states. we all remember 2000. one a lot of people don't remember, though, is 2004 where if john kerry had gotten 66,000 more votes in the state of ohio, he would've been president of the united states even though he got 3 million less votes than george bush. here's what we have here is an equity situation. in the united states of america, i think most people feel the

candidate with the most votes should win. everything from the prom queen to the captain of the football team. even all of our elected offices right through the governor's positions are by the person that gets the most votes. where it does not apply currently -- >> doesn't apply to the presidency. and tom, you implies have made good progress. and this kicks in after the last state puts you over 270 electoral votes, then it applies to all states. let's say new york state decides to go this way, then whoever wins the popular vote, new york agrees in this compact they're going to put all of their votes to the national winner, which basically means that an independent candidate for the first time would have a real shot of being elected president. >> well, i think that's possible. but the most important thing is the national popular vote initiative is as you just said has made real progress. we have secured states that are willing to award their electoral

votes to the national popular vote winner totaling 133 electoral votes so far. as you mentioned, we need 270 electoral votes, which means we're half way there. and i think tremendous progress has been made in the last year. we also have lobbying efforts going on in all the remaining states. so we think this is a very -- it's not a question of if, it's more of a question of when. and we're very excited about that. people ask us about 2012. i don't know if i'd say it was a likelihood, but it is possible it could happen and affect the 2012 lesson. so we're excited about it. we're determined. >> mike, there's so many independent candidates out there that would never do it because they know if they don't get to 270, and it gets thrown to the house, and whoever's running the house wins. this way, the person with the most votes win. what a radical concept. the candidates with the most votes wins. >> and it would give a

bloomberg-type of independent candidate a whole new view of why not run? tom, i have a two-part question for you. a, why do you seem to be targeting rick perry with this movement? and b, why not shortstop the thing and abolish the electoral college entirely? >> first of all, we think it's important to keep the electoral college active. because even though states today may be making the decision to go with national popular vote or congressional district or whatever the case may be, they should continue to remain to have that option open to them. so preserving the electoral college i think is a good idea just for future consideration, but as long as we go with national popular vote as the method, i think that's fine. now rick perry, several months ago rick perry along with mitch mcconnell and john boehner. by the way, rick perry used to be head of the governor's association, the republican governor's association. sent a letter to all of the republican governors in the united states urging them to veto any legislation as it

pertains to the national popular vote. now, that bothers us. because what it says to the american public if you take this position is it's okay if the candidate with the least number of votes wins. it's okay that our country is broken into two divisions, battleground and flyover states, and 225 million americans are ignored during the presidential race. and three, and this is a real issue, the fact that every vote should count equally in the united states of america for the election of the president of the united states. and with the winner take all rule that we have today, that is not true. >> yeah. not true at all. >> those are the three major issues. >> what a radical concept. again, the candidate with the most votes win. i love the idea. you know what's also great about tom? tom could've made tens of millions of dollars selling his hockey team, the sabers, if he

moved it to another city. refused to do it. isn't that right, mike barnicle? >> a buffalo guy. >> be true to your school, or your city. >> let me add one more -- >> go ahead. >> okay. nice being on the show. >> sorry about that. we got a little delay there. >> tom, thank you very much. the untold story of john lennon with author and music critic. "morning joe" will be right back.

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tim reilly out with a new book, "lennon: the man, the myth, the music" and there's so much to talk about here, tim. the one thing that jumps out and you would never guess it by looking at the cover, is the fact that drugs fueled much of lennon's creativity to such a degree that there's one moment during "let it be" where they're flat. and you had asked an apple insider, is that because they were mourning the loss of a child? and the answer was -- >> it was the most amazing interview i did for this project and he was an apple insider and he knew. and he said, no, you're way off on that. they weren't mourning the miscarriage. he had been on heroin and we all knew it, all through 1968. and we were glad because it got him off acid. >> yeah. >> oh, wow. >> so it gave me this whole new picture of how much he had been abusing acid that his band mates were happy that he had graduated

to heroin and that he'd been snorting heroin all the way through 1968. and he saw my jaw drop. and he said you have to understand in 1968 the way heroin was perceived in the culture. we didn't have all of these casualties. we didn't have a janice joplin, or jimmy hendrix or jim morrison. we didn't have the cautionary tales. it was an expensive drug, an elitist drug. >> in '67, '68, and '69, he was on a lot of drugs, something lennon later on would lament. he said i basically seated the band over to paul mccartney because i was so out of it. >> and he shows up and he starts to feel woozy and says i need fresh air. and the producer takes him up to the roof and he realizes that instead of taking an upper what he thought he was taking, he had taken a tab of acid. >> yeah. >> and he couldn't function. so, yes, no, he's a very, very -- it's a very strong

cautionary tale for lennon and his drug abuse. and more than one person i talked to said it's amazing that he lived through it. and the more fascinating thing i try to write about in the book is his song writing and his companionship with his fellow beatles pulled him through somehow. >> i will read a quote from your book also which really talks about why he was such a tortured artist for his 40 years. the worst pain is that of not being wanted or realizing your parents do not need you in the way you need them. when i was a child, i experienced moments of not wanting to see the ugliness. this lack of love went into my eyes and into my mind. obviously his father abandoned him, his mother was off and on until she got killed. he lived with his aunt. that was his family. >> and so those bonds, those intimate bonds that we -- most of us take for granted of, you know, having stable family situations, mother and father we can look up to and rely on, at

least one parent, he didn't have that. and i think it affected every single intimate relationship he ever had in his whole life. and you can see it play out in his whole life. for me, the interesting part, how did that play out in musical terms? i think "strawberry fields forever" is one of the greatest pop songs of all time. of what it felt to be john lennon the child. >> and of course, eric bates, the moment the beatles broke up, he just ripped the bandage off. >> yeah. well, both of the things you're talking about, his relationship with yoko and his drug use were things he was attacked for. and other band members had issues with, but they were core to him how he created his art. there's a real kind of contradiction there. >> real contradiction, and tells us how we tend to think about him differently long after he died than we did at the time. when he was alive, he was a very

controversial guy. he couldn't open his mouth without getting into trouble. and there were people -- we adore him now. it's a universal adoration we feel for lennon the myth now. but when he was alive, he got daily basis just because he was a loose cannon. he would say what was on his mind. it was often sharp and political and incindiary and made a lot of people mad. >> he absolutely loved new york city. >> he did. >> he absolutely adored america yet he couldn't get a green card for five years because the government was afraid of him, al sharpton. >> let me ask you this. was his relationship with yoko ono, was that answering some of his childhood anxiety with his parents? i mean, was that part of the glue? was she fitting something psychically that he needed? >> yes, so that the received idea about yoko ono is that she full fills this mother role he had been looking for for a long time. but i think it's, you know, the myth about lennon tends to be so simplistic. i think it's actually much more interesting and much more

complicated than that because i think that she showed him a whole world that he had never known before. one of my favorite quotes of his is from 1970 when he says i went to art school and i'm really angry they never told me about marcelle dushomp at my art school and that tells me that yoko is telling him about the history of modern art. >> he saw their relationship as an artistic relationship as much as anything. >> almost more so. almost primarily an artistic relationship. >> this is going to be absolutely fascinating to read. thank you so much. the book is "lennon, the man, the myth, the music." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." >> thank you. looks great. can i help you? yeah, can i get a full-sized car? for full-sized cars, please listen to the following menu. for convertibles, press star one. i didn't catch that. to speak to a representative, please say representative now. representative. goodbye! you don't like automated customer service,

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welcome back. reverend al, you'll be in washington this weekend for an important event. tell us about it. >> well, tomorrow is the national march for jobs and justice. we'll be marching from lincoln memorial to the new king monument calling on jobs. sunday we'll be speaking before the president dedicates officially the king monument in washington. so it is going to be an historic weekend. >> eric, what are you working on over at "rolling stone?" >> we have a couple pieces for next issue including a profile of rick perry. >> my.

i'm sure it'll be glowing. >> thanks very much. >> great to see you. always love having you here. >> on monday, we'll talk to actor and singer harry belafonte. up next, we'll look into the numbers behind the herman-ator's 999 plan. [ husband ] you ready for this? i just signed the whole family up for unlimited mobile to mobile minutes. you're kidding. no. where's that money coming from, steve? did it even cross your mind to ask your wife before signing us up for something so expensive? my mother was right; i should have married john clarke. they were free. i got them when i signed us up for unlimited messaging. [ male announcer ] get more value from at&t. buy an unlimited messaging plan, and call any u.s. mobile phone free. at&t. and you want to pass along as much as possible to future generations.

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brutalized and eaten up and chewed up in the press. we are being brutalized by our opponents and our party. so much of that is i think they look at him and he is the only true conservative. well, there are some conservatives and they're there for good reasons. they may feel like god called them, too. but i truly feel like we are here for that purpose. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us onset we have mike barnacle and donny deutsch. >> that's fruit loops. >> no. we've got a surprise for you. you know -- >> can i just say i love captain crunch?

anyway, where's the milk? here we go. so, you know, the funny thing about that clip? >> yeah. >> you know, she is sitting there going oh, my husband is being -- you want the reduced fat. see he's healthy. i told you. the interesting thing is, she's sitting there talking about -- and i feel sorry for any family going through this but she is talking about her husband is being persecuted because of religious faith? really? where the hell was she last week when her husband's supporter, who he applauded -- can i have some captain crunch? >> yes, sir. >> you can't have it all. was basically saying mitt romney was a member of a cult and going to hell? >> i don't want to see you eating, mike. that is just not -- we're trying to wake people up here. joe. >> does she expect people to feel sorry for her? >> the thing is i would feel sorry for her for what she said. first of all she didn't say we're being persecuted because we are the only christians in the race and the only conservatives because of our husband's faith but the bottom

line is -- i should have had frosted flakes. >> you should have. >> i screwed up again. >> hey joe? >> ooh. just in case. >> that's mine. >> in case of a nuclear blast i need that. >> okay. >> the thing is just a week ago it's jeffress if that's how you even say his name who is a supporter of perry who introduces perry at the values voter summit, who perry applauds, who says mitt romney is not a real christian. how can she just five days later go oh, we're being picked on because we love jesus? i mean, come on. >> i felt really bad for her. >> i do feel bad for her but they need to keep her away from microphones. >> here is the bottom line. what did harry truman say? come on. what did you think was going to happen when you got into a presidential race? you think you're going to a badminton tournament? i don't feel sorry for her for a second. i don't feel sorry for him for a second. >> why did you say you did? >> i was being facetious.

how do you say it? >> oh, my gosh. >> before we move on -- wow. all right. it's the cereal getting to your head. i don't appreciate this. i don't know what inspired you to try and make this point because this is all poison. >> it's not a point. >> fruit loops. >> your fruit loops are here. >> i did not know -- you know what? can i tell you something? look at this. a good source of fiber and made with whole grain. >> that is a joke. >> thank you. thank you. >> that is a joke. >> if you're an ad man, how effective are the adorable characters they put on the front? don't those just grab children in the supermarket? >> yes. i actually think these throwbacks to tony the tiger and this is great advertising. this is, you know, by the way, do you know his name? >> tucan sam. >> sure. tucan sam sells poison. >> the deutsch agency, fruit loops, a power breakfast. >> the key to sales has less to do with the advertising than shelf space in the supermarket.

cereals like frosted flakes, captain crunch, fruit loops, they're all on the lower shelves so the kids can grab them. >> by the way, you have little ones also, willie. for all those parents why don't you give your kids a healthy breakfast? it's like whatever they will eat in the morning. >> right. so if you're serving captain crunch this morning your child will eat corn flour, sugar, oat flour, brown sugar, coconut oil, salt. >> that's what i'm tasting. >> niacimide, yellow 5. >> guess what? we all ate for breakfast much worse versions. we look okay today. we survived. we were okay in our cribs. somehow we're all still here. >> no. >> where's my captain crunch? >> willie? >> this is what we call a slow news day? >> no. actually i would like to talk politics. >> we should say for viewers who weren't with us yesterday and this makes no sense to them whatsoever, there was a report out yesterday that mika brought

to our attention with the help of tom costello, that they're trying to ban some of these adorable characters from advertising. they want to get rid of tony the tiger and the lucky charm guy and everybody else. >> all right. let's do this. >> no! >> what are you doing? that's terrible! >> i didn't even get my bowl yet. >> if you don't think i won't take the cereal out of there and eat it. >> i know. trust me. >> you don't know me too well. >> at least the others will be safe. >> it's a new plastic bag. >> as i held on to my lucky charms. you're not getting ahold of my lucky charms. mika has the news. texas governor rick perry travels to pittsburgh today where he is set to give his first major policy address. the focus of the speech is expected to be energy but the event may offer a chance to refocus a presidential campaign that has taken just a few hits after perry's performance in recent debates. the dallas morning news reports that perry's far reaching plan would spark job growth by expanding oil drilling and pipe lines and loosen environmental restrictions. perry offered a few more details of his proposal in a cnbc interview last night.

>> we're sitting on a treasure trove of energy in this country. there's 300 years' worth of reserves underneath the land of america and that's how we're going to get america working again. the fastest way. the president of the united states, i don't have to ask congress, in my first 100 days, to open up all the federal lands and the waters, to pull back those regulations that are stifling and killing jobs today and to rebuild the epa. >> herman cain's 999. do you want to talk about perry's plan? no. herman cain's 999 economic plan continues to draw increased scrutiny. cain's proposal would reform the current tax code cutting it down to a 9% personal income tax and 9% corporate tax and 9% national sales tax. speaking to cnbc cain's economic adviser rich lowry offered this analysis of the plan's impact on

struggling u.s. economy. >> give me the growth estimates. >> 2 trillion. >> you're putting a lot of incentives in. >> $2 trillion of more gdp, 6 million jobs. business investment increases by a third. wages go up by 10%. and if you fold all that growth together federal revenues go up by 15%. >> that's him. stop eating. >> are you allowed to do that in american politics? you're obliged to do it. >> i was about to spit out my captain crunch. he's making it up. >> employment goes up 10%. >> 999. >> wages skyrocket. >> let me tell you something. this is going to do a couple things. my plan. i've got a plan too. 777. my plan is going to increase gdp by 24%. >> wow. >> unemployment going to drop three percentage points. >> what about wages? >> the chicken weed in your back yard. it's going to go away. i'm going to tell you this plan 777 reduces male pattern

baldness. i mean, you can say whatever you want to say. that accountant from -- wherever he is from -- is making it up. >> but it's herman cain. >> of course he is. >> they're just making it up. >> seriously. >> it's entertainment. >> it's like -- >> look at him. he was so sure of himself, too. >> it's improv. >> it is. >> this is because he had too much sugar. >> that's right. i threw away the lucky charms. >> what is brilliant about the 999, forget solving erectile dysfunction. >> there's that, too. >> yes. >> my plan is 777. just break the habit. >> is that in and this comes from him being a godfather's pizza guy and simple promotion, the best advertising, buy one get one free. >> exactly. >> just the fact that it's simple, it might not be reasonable. >> it's just not real. >> it's not real but -- >> he is making it up. >> it's a stake in the ground. >> seriously?

>> and it's something. in a mirage in the desert you go for something. >> you know what it reminds me of? >> what. >> hope and change. >> no. >> which was nothing but a mirage. he was selling potato chips in 2008 and the same people on the left. >> that's not right. >> what do you mean it's not true? he was a state senator. this was like selling soda to americans. hope and change. hope and change. >> stop it. no. >> it's the same exact thing. >> no it's not. >> americans bought it hook, line, and sinker. they could have gotten hillary clinton, somebody that knew how to run washington, or go with the guy who had the catchy phrase. guess what they did? they went with the guy with the catchy phrase. >> they don't vote for issues. they vote for an overall persona. >> and anybody on the left that is not willing to admit that you fell for it hook, line, and sinker back in '08, a soda campaign for hope and change, are just like the people on the right that are still trying to tell themselves that 999 means anything more than 27. >> you know what this says, herman cain?

999? the story is yet to be written. >> hope and change. >> there will be an independent candidate that will surface. it's not vote. i don't want to do that. >> the first primary is in eight weeks. >> independent though. >> here's the problem. >> it's a new -- i'm going to make a prediction. there will be new math in this election we've never seen. >> you are exactly right, donny. now we're moving on. >> wait a second. herman cain. hum. i got 3 to 4 billion to spend. why not? >> you'll see. and we the press are not going to let this election be over in six weeks. >> he didn't have to explain it until he was at 27% in the polls. he is the guy with the 999? now it sounds good. now you're top of the heap. now you have to face the fire. >> and you have to get rich lowry from toledo to take a train in. >> seriously? >> or did he come in on the greyhound? >> it's improv like an episode of "curb your enthusiasm." they're just making it up. >> it's great. >> yeah. >> very entertaining. >> good stuff. >> this too shall pass. >> it's his p.i.n. code.

>> exactly. here is the problem. you sit here, well why is this happening? why could a guy like herman cain come up with a plan that doesn't add up and get an accountant out of toledo or wherever it is, herman cain doesn't even know where he's from. >> on primetime. >> it's happening because mitt romney can't make the sell. there are two fascinating comments yesterday. >> yes. >> one from peggy noonan who is considered a more moderate, tempered republican, and one from rush limbaugh obviously not considered a more temperate republican. listen to what they both said yesterday. i'm sure they weren't calling each other on the phone before they said it. this is what peggy said in "the wall street journal." people say mr. romney hasn't budged from roughly 25% support. but through every rise of every challenger, he hasn't lost a thing. he holds his position and he can grow. but watching him the other night i thought his strength is his weakness. he is essentially a moderate. those who love him, love that best. those who don't, hate it most.

but he is a moderate man. and he is. this is what rush limbaugh said yesterday. and listen to the tone, friends. romney is not a conservative. he's not, folks. you can argue with me all day long on that. but he isn't. this isn't personal. not with what this country faces and so forth. i like him very much. i've spent social time with him. he's a fine guy. he's a very nice gentleman. he is a gentleman. but he's not a conservative. and, mika, rush limbaugh and peggy noonan are right. he is not a conservative. >> but, you know, you're hurting him terribly and your party's prospects. >> by saying he is not a conservative? >> yeah. >> why is that hurting him if we get to general election? it helps him. >> i think at this point that's the hurdle isn't it? >> but there is no alternative. so he's betting that, you know what? i can play this game. because basically by default i'm going to win. and then he's set up for all those independent voters and all

those swing states come next november. >> so it's okay that he's not a conservative. >> yeah. >> i tell you -- >> but it explains, though, mike, why herman cain, michele bachmann, i mean, republicans, conservative republicans who endured eight years of big spending under george w. bush are desperate to find a true conservative, a fiscal conservative out there that can win in the general and right now they can't find it. >> well, underline can win in the general. and go back to rush limbaugh's statement yesterday. given rush's blow torch rhetoric that's nearly an endorsement of mitt romney. he just points out he's not a conservative. he is a fine guy, a gentleman. i spent some social time with him. mitt romney is not a far right conservative. everybody knows that. but he's got to skate the edge of that party in order to get to where he can win in november. there is no way you win in november. if you track really hard right. >> no doubt about it. >> amen. >> mika? >> two other stories to get to. a troubling report, another

one. it seems like we can't get enough of these. about the state of the american economy in "the wall street journal" this morning. the headline reading "bleak news for americans' income." this is something we've been talking about a lot here. it says a steady drop in u.s. income is not expected to recover before 2021. "the journal" also reports that according to census data from 2000 to 2010 the median u.s. income fell 7%. marking its worst ten-year performance since 1967. 44 years. on average, economists expect inflation adjusted incomes to rise over the next decade but the percent projected gain isn't enough to reach prerecession levels. >> we're talking about these 50 economists, mika are suggesting that we're going to have a lost decade? that we're not going to recover until 2021. >> mika, guess what else was news yesterday. google beat estimates that stock was up 5.5%. there is your occupy wall street story. >> we're getting to that. though the majority of the 50 economists surveyed say the

current generation of college graduates will have a higher standard of living than their parents, a third of respondents think it'll be lower. college graduates have generally fared better in the u.s. and they currently have a 4.2% unemployment rate compared to 9.1% for the entire work force. but a college degree hasn't been enough to ensure wage gains from 2000 through 2010. according to the census bureau only advanced degree holders managed to record increases in earnings over that period. >> so i started to bring this up yesterday. we've all been celebrating. everybody's been celebrating the genius of steve jobs. and steve jobs, my gosh. i celebrate the genius of steve jobs. but somebody that was talking about the passing of steve jobs, the passing of american era, also brought up a really frightening statistic. frightening just the historical trends are frightening. you add up all the people who work for google, yahoo,

facebook, apple, five or six of the top tech giants, mike, those six, seven huge tech companies that we always embrace and say yes but look where america is, they employ two-thirds less than the number of people that worked at gm in 1980. put another way, take one-third of the work force at gm in 1980, more people worked there than work in all of these six, seven, eight high tech companies that we always point to and say, yeah. but look what we're doing now. it's just not a replacement for the working class. >> no. i mean, you look at the occupy wall street movement. you know, much of the grievances are absolutely legitimate. absolutely legitimate. and yet the after effect of the whatever is going on with the financial services community in this country is going to result in far fewer people working. >> right. >> there is just no doubt. far fewer people are going to be working.

they're going to layoff people. >> there just aren't going to be, as painful as it sounds, big factories where guys go in and punch a time card and work by the thousands on the floor creating things in this tech industry. there just aren't. it is an information industry and that's the challenge president obama and congress has which i'm not sure they're up to at this moment to find a way to put all of those people back to work. we're in those jobs. not in those kind of jobs. >> the new math, energy, that's also going to be more based on a technology model than manufacturing model. >> exactly. >> so even the savior industry is built the same way. >> mika, what we have to do is we can't just hope for a new steve jobs to rise from the west. we've got to roll up our shirt sleeves. we've got to do it -- we've got to get dirty. got to sweat it out. we've got to go to europe. we've got to tell car manufacturers we can build your cars better here and it's not going to be like gm in 1980 but maybe we get 5,000 jobs here. maybe we get 5,000 jobs there.

we're going to have to do the big things like create apples but also the small things. a thousand small things to get people back to work. >> but first we have to -- that is going to take a while. we have to deal with the simmering anger out there. let me just get the occupy wall street story in there. millions taking a stand against this economic inequality we're seeing are posting all over the web at this point about where and when to gather. while protesters are rallying in several major u.s. cities police have arrested a half dozen people in portland. the fight in dallas goes to court over a request to get an indefinite permit. in boston thousands of dollars have been raised for the protests on the internet. in poland of all places, but it makes sense when you hear the name, former president lekvowensa says he supports the movement against corporate greed. you remember the solidarity movement. in an interview with the associated press he says people are what matter. we cannot accept a situation when capitalism is making huge money and does not know what to do with it.

it should invest in new jobs. people are most important. >> you know what this movement needs? one is obvious one not so obvious. everybody is saying they need to clarify. they need policy issues. this is what we want as opposed to -- >> right. >> the other thing it needs and i don't want this to come out the wrong way. not needs but will happen, if you think back to the late '60s, what the most stirring image of all of the rebellion that happened? what do we remember? kent state. now i'm not saying somebody has to get killed. what will happen, will there be a climax moment of class warfare somehow played out on screen that i think will, the same way 999 if you will kind of simplifies a message that articulates this clash. >> coming up next, why married households in america dropped to new record lows. our next guest writes the cover story in the new issue of the atlantic explaining why many women are delaying marriage and some not doing it at all.

also joining us "the washington post" columnist eugene robinson. >> bill karins will wipe the smile off your face every time. >> that's good. the opposite of the morning coffee right? good morning everyone. we're continuing to watch rain moving through the area. i think i will bring smiles to people's faces. we'll see areas that are rainy now like the mid-atlantic and northeast and turn into sunshine and breezy conditions this weekend. right now the rain rolling through d.c., maryland, areas right around the chesapeake where we're dry currently in new york and philly but rain is going to slide your way shortly. for the weekend we'll be watching some of the windy and rainy conditions up through areas of new england. that's going to clear out quickly though and overall i think the biggest thing we'll see this weekend is the wind up through the great lakes especially michigan all the way up through new england. those leaves will be flying. of course you know they're just about at their peak. we have some wind warnings and advisories out there. mostly off of the great lakes.

especially around the buffalo area. right now they're just beginning to pick up around and chicago. it will be the windiest as we go through the upcoming saturday/sunday period. in other words today is when the rains are around and then it clears out for a beautiful sunshine and nice october weekend everyone. enjoy it. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ cellphone rings ] cut! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com. to bring you a low-priced medicare prescription drug plan.

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as i sift through the rubble of my marriage skirmish i had a thought. maybe the fight between marrieds and singles is like the war in northern ireland. we're all basically the same but somehow we wound up on different sides. sure it would be great to have that one special person to walk

home with but sometimes there is nothing better than meeting your single girlfriends for a night at the movies. "sex in the city's kerry bradshaw" reflecting on the benefits of being a single woman. now a new report says more and more women are choosing to follow her advice. with the rise of women in the work place due to the recession as the major factor. >> and men being pigs. who wants to be with a man? i mean, seriously. look at donny deutsch. seriously. look at donny deutsch. >> why would anybody want to have to be with the likes of myself or you? gene's different. >> joining us now kate bolick who wrote about this in the latest issue of "the atlantic" and also associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc analyst eugene robinson. >> a man all women want eugene robinson. did you write the article?

is that you on the cover? >> yes. >> you are the article. >> you are a triple threat. >> yes. >> i shouldn't ask that. >> hey. that came out completely wrong. >> you're in the corner. okay. >> wait a second. is that a mitt romney/rick perry moment? >> i originally wrote it because they asked me to. what they were asking me to look into were all the statistics around how men are on the descent and women are on the ascent and what does it mean for the future of dating and romance marriage. >> you're talking about the studies that show women are being more successful now than men, more women going to college. basically men are a dying breed. >> well, men are having a harder time of it. this isn't an anti-man story. i'm not saying men are over or obsolete or even that marriage itself is obsolete. >> thank god.

i felt like a praying mantis for a second there. >> marriage has always been based on men's overwhelming economic dominance and the fact this is changing is radical and gives us a chance to rethink notions of marriage and how we arrange ourselves and how we do it. >> there is a real societal shift. mika, when we had bill bennett on before. >> amazing. >> he was talking about how the ascent of women. >> yep. >> actually is hurting men not in the ways we expect but we're finding out and kate's story seems to underline this that men need women more than women need men. >> i wrote a chapter in my book. >> duh. >> female superiority doctrine. a man and a woman with the same talent i would hire the woman every time. >> that's right. that's in my book. >> if females were dominant though why would i address a question to you and donny interrupt? >> exactly. because he has no self-awareness and is undisciplined. >> none at all. >> which is exactly why women are doing better today is because we're disciplined. we've worked harder. and now we're -- it's paying off

during the man's session and what we're finding is men are these pathetic little lumps that need women and women actually don't really need the guys. it is really strange. >> i feel someone at the table should say a kind word for men. >> no, no. that's okay. let me read from your piece. but go ahead. >> no, no. but also, maybe point out though that when for example you take a picture of the u.s. senate or house of representatives you see very few women. now maybe that proves the point. >> we're good. >> let's hear about the story. >> so this is you on women and marriage. we've arrived at the top of the stair case. finally ready to start our lives only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of a party most of the men gone already some having never shown up and those who remain are leering by the cheese table or are, you know, the ones you don't want to go out with. >> i hate when that happens. >> it's bad out there. >> ah, actually i think that

there are a lot of great men out there. i'm really not anti-men or anti-dating. i feel more anti-the obsession with dating or finding mr. right. i think that women are spending too much time and energy fretting over that and organizing their young adulthoods around that. this demographic shift is changing the conversation and making, you know, we are now single longer than ever before in american history. we have more single people than ever. we're at 50% and more single households than ever so it's changed things. >> do you make the case that this is a good thing? >> yes, without a doubt. >> really. >> yes. >> do you think it's a problem that young women are trying to focus and organize their lives around finding someone and building that family? >> i think the obsession with the search is a problem. especially because the demographics are showing or the numbers are showing that we are spending a longer time unmarried so sort of get over it already. relax into your single life. enjoy it.

there is so much to do and learn and love will come when it comes. you can't force it. you have to be out there. >> good point. >> it's not something you can organize like a college degree. >> and you know of what you speak because your article says that you broke up with an ex-boyfriend in your late 20s because you weren't ready to settle down and a decade later i'm reading here you have too many ex-boyfriends to count. you're basically saying, keep calm and carry on. when it comes, it comes. if it doesn't, i'm good. >> yes, exactly. >> unfortunately, it's not fair because women have a biological clock. >> yes. >> not all women are in a position to have a child on their own. i mean, i always say any woman, hey, do it. who cares? but that's the unfair disadvantage that women are up against. >> well, without a doubt. i also question not in the article but this idea of the ploenlg clock. we have -- a lot of women want to have a child but a lot of women don't. i think that is also up for question. how many women out there want to have a child because they think

they're supposed to have a child? and i, myself, i haven't felt that clock ticking, so it's been -- it's easier for me to embrace being single and it is different if you know you want that. >> where should the guys be if not by the cheese table? where at the party should they be? >> i've always been told by the cheese table. >> it's the leering. >> donny, let's write this down. no, no. hold on a second. no leering. >> okay. >> by the cheese table. this is a rule i wish i would have had about 10, 15 years ago. >> it sounds like you and i have both been struggling in the mating department. >> stop it. >> are you hitting on her? >> no. i'm serving something up here. okay? >> okay. >> i feel your pain. >> at least i've been there punching. i have two failed marriages. >> please don't say my ex-girlfriend doesn't understand me. >> no. i wasn't going to say that.

i feel your pain and maybe you and i should go to the cheese table and have some cheese. >> okay. i'm going to try now to -- >> mika. >> this is seriously your point right here. >> you know what? >> hey, you know what? were i trying a case and trying your case at this point i would turn to the judge and say, your honor, i rest your case. donny, this is a directed verdict. men are pigs. stay away from the cheese table. >> no. but you know what? i totally understand especially with all the different talents that women bring to the table and the opportunities they have now because we're at the top of the stair case if you don't want to have kids and you have something else that fills you up, that's great. but i worry about the women who do want a marriage. >> yes. >> and who do want children and to put that off or not take it as seriously as you take your job, i think that's a bad message, too. >> how about adoption? >> what about it? >> i think that people should be more open to it.

>> okay. >> i mean, the rush to have your own biological progeny i think is narrow. >> all kidding aside, there is no one way to do it. >> yes. >> there is no traditional formula. there is just, and i think that's the great message for men and women and what not. >> yes. >> whatever works. whatever works for you. >> yes. >> right now i'm a single dad and kind of an untraditional situation and it works. >> yes. >> so there is no one formula. >> let's look at how the recession is impacting this situation. 75% of the jobs lost were held by men in 2010. women held 51.4% of all man anlgerrial positions up from 26% in 1980. three women are graduating with college degrees for every two men who are graduating with college degrees. really the world has been turned on its head. again, for not centuries, for thousands of years women have clung to men for economic

security. now things are changing. now women, again, are moving ahead. >> think about it. we don't need them for anything. >> this is a radical -- this is a radical change over the past 20 years. >> to laugh at. >> yeah. >> just saying. >> that changes everything doesn't it? >> yes. exactly. and we also have to keep in mind that this -- the model of women clinging to men for economic dominance, that's also new, too, that male bread winner has not been going on for millennium so marriage has always been shifting. >> i think there is something to be said for a loving, forever relationship and i'm sorry. i have to speak in defense of marriage. >> yes. >> and family. did you just say dominance? >> oh, my god, donny. >> okay. so kate, kate, you and me talking here. come back. would you? >> i would love to. >> i want to know more about what you're writing. i think this is fascinating and you're a fascinating cover model as well. think about it.

this is like running the gamut for you. >> yes. >> hot. and the hottest story. >> by the way, could we get nbc security here to escort kate out? we'll keep a stun gun on donny. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. >> kate bolick, the article is the cover story in the new issue of "the atlantic" and it's fascinati fascinating. more "morning joe" when we come back. great job. man: my electric bill was breaking the bank. so to save some money, i trained this team of guinea pigs to row this tiny boat. guinea pig: row...row. they generate electricity, which lets me surf the web all day. guinea pig: row...row. took me 6 months to train each one, 8 months to get the guinea pig: row...row. little chubby one to yell row! guinea pig: row...row. that's kind of strange. guinea pig: row...row. such a simple word... row. anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to geico.com. get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.

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i have no idea. could take some himself. >> he is an intern for god's sake. sets it up -- >> i'm a straight man but i'm attracted to -- >> go away today. >> i don't know what that means. >> i think you know exactly what it means. >> we all know what that means. >> how about some football? >> willie? >> we can talk about football. >> are you ready for some football? >> we can watch the tight pants. a little disappointed. what is going on here? you're losing control of yourself. >> i'm conflicted. all eyes on nashville this week. >> all eyes are always on nashville. >> will you roll it at dudley field on a saturday night. >> you guys are giving me a headache. >> your hard hat and lunch pail. who do you have, ole miss? that's not going to be real

close. >> michigan/michigan state. >> that's a good game. where is that? >> you know, i think lansing. >> you're a michigan guy? >> i'm a michigan guy. >> how is michigan coming along? >> 5-0. should be favored in the big 10. but shhh. >> they have to play wisconsin now. >> they have to play wisconsin. >> who is your coach? >> let's hope wisconsin doesn't show up at that game. >> all right. >> brady hoke. >> things are turning around for michigan. >> and bernard robinson, the quarterback. >> yeah. is, you know, close to leading the nation in rushing. >> that is so exciting. let me just say if my team, alabama makes it all the way, i hope we play michigan. or any big 10 team. i think that would be a lot of fun. right, willie? >> yes. and all of this has been an elaborate setup for this. >> so what's the secret to our

success? practice like champions, we work like champions, and we play like champions. any questions? ♪ ♪ ♪ >> and we eat like champions.

any questions? i didn't think so. >> go! go! go! like a champion! roll tide! it's dedication. you got to stay focused. >> you're unbelievable. i've been wanting to run that stadium for four years. tommy ford university of alabama, thank you. >> he helped out. let me just say, i wanted to eat a big mac under the overpass at 58th street right off the west side highway. mayor bloomberg, thank you. what's next, mika? >> simon hobbs. we'll be right back.

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here' with cnbc's simon hobbs. let's take a look. >> oh, my gosh. >> wow. >> i was wondering how he survived because he did the occupy wall street thing and i swear to god he goes down there and he's assaulted by the fashion police. >> a mock turtle neck. >> steve jobs day. i'm wearing my turtle neck for that. on the floor of the new york stock exchange you have to put a jacket on. we've had really tense moments within the last hour. the occupy wall street guys from further down near broadway decided that finally they would come to the new york stock exchange this morning. it's been anticipated for as long as they've been down there. we have barriers around us that don't allow people within 200 or 300 yards. today they decided to test that. the police saw them coming. they put reinforcements in. we have police on horseback which basically held them half way down wall street. there was a very tense moment but they walked the other way to the other end of wall street away from the new york stock exchange. but then they moved around the perimeter again. ultimately the police started arresting those that had over

their faces handkerchiefs and might look as if they were about to cause trouble. >> wow. >> but they held them on the pavement. essentially this was the same type of tactic they had on the brooklyn bridge. they moved them on to the pavement and the clear threat was that anybody else who moved off the pavement who be arrested and it seemed to assert their authority in that and ultimately after about 45 minutes the protesters moved back down and on to broadway and now they're going back to their park. so it's been very -- it was a very, very tense morning here. they were expecting they clearly had intelligence from 6:30 when i arrived because we had a lot of police with plastic handcuffs on their belts but we've averted a catastrophe. a handful of arrests and everybody moves on. >> all right. >> looks like peaceful protests out there. did you see any hints of violence? >> there were scuffles but you never know whether that is actually the photographers and there were hundreds of photographers almost as many as there were protesters. when they put the police on the motor bikes on the mopeds there was some trouble but i couldn't

say violence for sure. it didn't look violent to me. >> simon hobbs thank you. see you next week. >> nice outfit. love it. >> week in review next. [ female announcer ] starbucks via® is planted the same... ♪ ...harvested the same... ♪ ...and roasted the same as our other premium coffees. ♪ it only makes sense it would taste the same. so, try it for yourself. buy a pack of 100% natural starbucks via® ready brew. we promise you'll love it or we'll send you a bag of starbucks coffee. it's the starbucks via® taste promise. look for it at starbucks stores and where you buy groceries. the pioneers. the aviators. building superhighways in an unknown sky. their safety systems built of brain and heart, transforming strange names from tall tales into pictures on postcards home. and the ones who followed them, who skimmed the edge of space,

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it's time. the top three stories of the week. ♪ >> at number three, when world leaders dance. ♪

venezuelan president hugo chavez showed this week he is in touch with the kids by doing some backup dancing for a young rapper. while chavez groupie sean penn and danny glover shrieked with delight somewhere the american president provided a strong unilateral response. president obama's on rhythm dancing represents a departure from the foreign policy of the previous administration. if nothing else, chavez is dancing on the international stage and provides us a moment to pour some on the curb for the best political dance performance in world history. ♪ at number two, on your right, a youtube sensation this week when a 300-pound south african

antelope buck took out a mountain biker during a race through a wildlife park. >> holy cow! >> somehow the rider suffered only minor injuries and a cracked helmet in the beast's epic takedown. that's why we can in good conscience show it to you on a continuous loop. >> whoa. whoa. >> and the number one story of the week. >> there is a difference between the flavor of the week and haagan das black walnut because it tastes good all the time. >> the delicious herman cain jumped to the front of the presidential field this week beating the american public into submission with his economic plan. >> this is why we developed 999. this 999 plan. 999. i'd help put my 999 plan on the table. remember, 999 plan. put it in the 999 plan. 999 is my top priority.

>> with all that economic planning mr. cain simply does not have time to learn the leaders of made up far away lands. >> when they ask me who is the president of ubekebe-stan-stan i'm going to say i don't know. meanwhile the vanilla flavored front runner mitt romney won the support of the gop dream candidate who last week broke republican hearts by refusing their repeated advances. >> mitt romney is the man we need to lead america and we need him now. >> that press conference was eerily foretold on "saturday night live" three days earlier. >> he is a nice plan in a clean suit that wants to be president. >> romney spent a good part of this week's debate figuratively sending rick perry to his room without dinner. >> i'm still speaking. i'm still speaking. >> all perry could do was to sit there and stew and imagine a giant antelope knocking mitt romney off a bicycle. >> it was awesome.

it was good. it was an awesome debate. >> that was an awesome debate. up next what if anything did we learn today? re you even think at cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪ gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money.

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it's heart-healthier than butter. with omega-3s. 64% less saturated fat. and clinically proven to help support healthy cholesterol. ♪ put a little love in your heart ♪ welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today i learned from our friends at abc news that black walnut at hagan das was literally a flavor of the month. >> oh, my gosh.

it is a flavor of the month. >> it was a limited edition. abc found out from hagan das we don't sell black walnut anymore. the sales nationally did not meet our expectations. >> oh, my gosh. >> you know what i learned from my good friend gene robinson, if you wait long enough you, too, can be a front runner in the gop field. just ask herman cain. >> i learned single guys, donny, should stay away from the cheese table at all costs. >> yes. >> i learned that over ten years ago the deutsch agency created a campaign, true story, mitsubishi motors, zero, zero, zero. zero percent financing. little did i know it was a precursor for a presidential hopeful. >> what hell have you wrought, donny? not only in your professional life but as we saw today, mika, in his personal life. he is the guy leering at the cheese table. >> oh, what i learned? >> yes. >> despite donny, ladies, don't give up on marriage. despite him. >> that's a big sort of caveat there isn't it willie?