we begin with the high stakes republican debate going in for the eighth showdown in sin city, las vegas. we should see a spectacle on the issue of immigration. it was high roller of the moment, herman cain ignited an immigration firestorm this weekend when he talked about erecting an electrified fence along the nation's border. >> we will have a real fence. 20 feet high with barbed wire. electrified. with a sign on the other side that says it can kill you. >> cain told david gregory on "meet the press" his remark was a joke and that america needs to get a sense of humor. michele bachmann disagrees. >> this is no laughing matter. we have seen jokes made by

presidential candidates and it is not a joke. >> if it was a joke, cain rehearsed before. here he is in june suggesting a southern boarder with an alligator-filled mote. >> a 20-foot wall, barbed wire, electrified at the top and on this side of the fence -- [inaudible]. i will put the alligators in the mote. >> laughter and a lot of applause for that idea indeed. it's worth noting that tonight's debate takes place as alabama implements a new immigration law believed by many to be the toughest in the nation, prompting immigrant workers and school children to stay home or flee the state. as the candidates get ready for the big fight in las vegas, it's

worth noting that nevada ranks first not only in foreclosures, but it's also the state with the nation's biggest share of working unauthorized immigrants. 10%. in other words, it's fair to say that undocumented workers are putting a fair share of the viva in les vegas. en route to nevada in arizona that herman cain insisted again this is a joke. we think. making a courtesy call on the top sheriff. cain struggled mightily on his own rhetorical fence. >> it didn't sound like a joke. >> we are splitting hairs here. y don't apologize and it might be electrified. i'm not walking away from that. >> know when to hold them and when to fold them, mr. cain.

member of the congressional hispanic caucus who joins us from tucson. good afternoon, sir. >> how are you? >> i want to reassure and we are about to read from the book. in this book, he writes and i'm quoting, if they get into the mote and get over my fence which will be 20 feet high and outswim the alligators, i give them the job. is it right to assume in herman's world, being eaten by alligators is determined to be the best way to deter illegal immigration? >> i think cain and as ignorant as the comments are, it's the pandering he is doing to go render unto caesar and the sheriff and get his blessing and lay lavish praise on him, a man

that is being investigated for the justice department and a rights violation in court on profiling and being investigated in the use of federal funds. not necessarily an icon of justice and law, but here they are. what's disturb disturbing about case comments is he can have his opinions and viewpoints and i might disagree regarding his politics and the fact remains in context. this nation still has the strains and the stains of violence and the issues of race relations remain an issue. for him to stir and for him to indicate that violence is say means to solve a very complex social problem and immigration reform, if to go back to the times where we use the issue of violence at a club as opposed to

realizing that we had to go in a different direction. >> when he talks about alligators and he literally talks about this in the book and never walks it back and said this is a joke, he has it in his book. let's bring on the alligators and make it a big moat. this is not a dream act. this is a death act. >> yes and the issue of death and dehumanizing of great number of people making them less than and expendable. those are characterizations i get from the quote and like i said, very, very disturbing for a presidential candidate of a major party. >> he himself made a call on the toughest sheriff in the world. sheriff joe is in court at this very moment right now on allegations he made up charms on

three public officials and said there was a grand jury investigating the use of power and the justice department is assessing whether immigration patrols are guilty of abusing civil rights. is this the endorsement that a republican candidate should be seeking? >> it would be an endorsement they should avoid. what's happening in going into las vegas where immigration would be a big issue. this is a pathetic nature of the republican list of candidates. they are bringing out the same dirty rag of immigration and using it in a way that divides and creates fear and profiles people and using that as a means to garner support and votes. at a time when our nation is going through very, very tough difficult economic times and instead of offering solutions,

talking about where we need to be as a country, let's pull out the old reliable and beat up on the immigrant and call that our wedge issue in order to win this election. that's the pandering i spoke about and that is the pathetic nature of this field to use this issue as the only issue in which they can distinguish themselves in a very hateful and divicive way from each other. they will try to outdo each other and i think that will be a expect cal. >> they will fight to be as aggressive as possible almost as inflammatory as possible tonight. >> i think that cain set the bar and at some point it's bachman and romney in his own way will try to outdo each other. >> we will hear that president obama will be accused of being weak on immigration. this past year there a record

number of deportations and nearly 400,000. how do you rate president obama's leadership. they are compared with the field of candidates. >> the record that he illustrated today in terms of enforcement policies and deportations and detentions and the highest since eisenhower years. the approach of the president and they have been a very hard enforcement policy. i hope that as a consequence to this announcement today that we understand that this whole issue is not going to be solved by who is the toughest, it's going to be solved by good secures and also going to be solved by a comprehensive pragmatic reform to the laws that deals with the human aspect and not the political rhetoric we are hear or not a tough guy approach we are seeing from the administration. >> congressman, critical of both

sides. thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you, sir. >> the president equates occupy wall street with the tea party. we will have reaction just ahead. that's why i recommend crest pro-health clinical gum protection. it helps eliminate plaque at the gum line, helping prevent gingivitis. it's even clinically proven to help reverse it in just 4 weeks. crest pro-health clinical gum protection.

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president obama today issues his strongest words to date on the occupy wall street demonstrations. in an interview this afternoon, the president said "in some ways they are not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the tea party." one of the most influential and consistent voices in favor is russell simmons where he told mayor bloomberg he would pay to have the park cleaned to avoid a confrontation between demonstrators and the police.

i'm delighted to welcome russell simmons back to the studio. chairman and ceo of an industry legend. good afternoon. you said that this protest must remain outside of partisan bickering. not take sides. why is that so important? >> we want everybody to get this simple message. everybody can digest this message. they would be happy to know it is subject to bribery. they have these ideas and they don't want to think his representative is taking money and feeding him refurbished ideas he has gotten from him. we want them to work for the people. everybody in america wants to democracy when they elect an official that that person elects them. >> let me show you one of his

top adviser who is appeared on "morning joe" this morning. watch this. >> despite the fact that you raised a ton of money on wall street, is that a wise thing talking political for the president to do to get in bed with the occupy wall street movement. >> i don't know that he is getting in bed with anyone. >> david axelrod said he is not getting in bed with anyone. would you like to align himself more? >> first let me say this. in this environment, politicians, all of them have to operate with an awareness of what game they are playing. i don't think we should hate the players in the way they are operating. the game should allow them to operate in a way that is hurtful to the public. >> would you like the president to come out and say -- >> i think there will be a moment where they benefit. if you see the separate sign, each message and something he addressed and so i think that whether it's disbanding of the

unions and the prison industrial complex or moving jobs off seas or corporations spending money with politicians. he tried to resist or talk about how it would be good with finance reform. for him to come out by himself and make these statements t could cost the election. as it grows, most of what these people are saying he has been more on their side and champion their causes in more instances than not. it's a natural alignment, even though it's not a partisan discussion. it would end up helping him and democra democrats. those who see them growing and want to see things with the government who will help the people who are suffering. speaking of these particular protesters, there is reporting that anti-semitism has begun to emerge. canny repeat that?

watch this. >> political leaders are praising occupy wall street. >> do you support them? >> i support the message. >> it expresses the frustration of the american people. . >> the population in the country has a firm grip on america's media, finances -- >> have you seen any of that? >> i go down there every day and i see sweet compassionate and astute people. i see the people who have high aspirations for america who idealistic and i don't see any kind of race. the most exclusive group america has to offer. race, religion -- there will always be imans on 20,000 people and they say that 40 people got

arrested. they report that it was very violent. that was time square. i saw it on the cover of a paper. very violent. on one of the paper, the pictures of a few homeless people sleeping it. looks like amsterdam. these are college kids. the nucleus and the overall message being given is that we want our government to be controlled by the people and all people. >> i have to press you on this. this committee would not have put a video like thatting to and posted it if they didn't have sufficient images. >> how many people are protesting about that. >> i'm talking about what was happening. >> do you know how many people have come through and how many messages are coming through. >> 82 countries. >> it is true. there is a political potential to enhance the work that

democrats are doing. it's true. they are not hijacking it, but may be the beneficiary and theests of people who do not like that idea. there will be infiltrators and promotions of negative things that have happened. i am part of that 100% down there. i believe if the people suffer, i'm suffering. their message is wall street. wall street controls the future and they would like to control the future. it's that simple. to say they are aspenti-semits, they know it's a sweet, astute, smart, compassionate and loving group. >> no focus on jewish bankers

and financeurs? >> i have not seen any of it, but if there is, there a lot of things that mostly it's a will for america to be better. in their efforts to make a more perfect union are heard around the world and being respected. if some people don't like the fact that they are attacking wall street and they want to frame it poorly, they can. you are the responsible journalist and have to go down for yourself and you have to make an assessment. >> i have been down there and i didn't see any of those signs. >> i ark appreciate that. >> thank you very much for joining us. next, a prisoner swap in the middle raises eyebrows. 1,000 plus for one? stay with us. [ male announcer ] theraflu, mucinex,

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constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue... >> now to the prisoner swap stirring up mixed emotions. after more than five years held captive by hamas militants,

israeli soldier is back home. they brokered a deal in exchange for more than 1,000 palestinian prisoners. we go to a man now. many of the prisoners were convicted of terrorism offenses, some of them as i read are serving life sentences and as they return to gaza, they are being welcomed as heroes. you worked in gaza for two years and explain the circumstances of why this is happening like this. >> you have to look at it from the perspective of the palestinians and they are seeing this in the context of the national liberation struggle. they are being released and they are fighting to advance. they are welcomed as heroes and all political factions and the families and having said that, they are 5,000 or so that remain in israeli jails. they are say that the charges

against a lot of the prisoners are drummed upcharges. >> they are bogus. >> exactly. that's why the charges and so many of them are being released and not necessarily seen in the context. >> just looking, one israeli soldier for more than 1,000 palestinian, how does that work? >> it's extremely important and sends an important message to the army and society that the value of one soldier, you can't simply put a price on it and they will do anything they can to bring them home. from a palestinian perspective, they look at it that there 5,000 sore so prisoners in israeli jails. the fact that palestinians were willing to hold on to secure the release and they are able to leverage israel into changing their own policies for the release of the soldier. >> briefly if i can ask you, he came out and he has been very polite about the way he was held by hamas and he has not been

critical. do you worry that the israelis may use him in some way now that he is free against the palestinians? >> we heard from the prime minister who said i brought your son home and i brought him home and the leadership will try to capitalize on it after two governments and they were the ones who were bringing him home. only time will tell how he has been able to use the narrative. people are calling for hamas to carry out more attacks. >> thank you very much for joining us. mitt and herman may want to do ear must haves. the top lines are coming up. [ female announcer ] to get a professional cleaning system you could spend as much as $200. olay says challenge that with an instrument that cleanses as effectively as what's sold by skin professionals for a whole lot less. new olay pro x advanced cleaning system.

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the candidates are preparing their chips for the sin city debate. we are all in. here are the top lines.

>> i know you are here not because things are great in nevada, but because things are going to be great after i'm president. >> ever before anyone goes home with mitt romney, they will take a last lap around the bar to see if there is anyone better than me. >> when are john boehner played golf with president obama? >> yeah. >> spent a lot more time than this president has and a lot less time on the golf course. >> republicans are brutalizing rick perry because of his faith? i don't know gets it worse than evangelical christians and as they are known, the base of the republican party. >> the that makes the most sense is herman cain. >> ladies and gentlemen, here he is, the president of godfather's pizza, herman cain! >> as i look at the candidates, herman cain is great. >> let me say it was a joke and some people don't think it was a

good joke and probably not a joke that those would make if you are a presidential candidate. i apologize if it offend anyone. >> it didn't sound like a joke. >> i think we are splitting hairs here. i don't apologize for using a combination of offense and it might be electrified. i'm not walking away from that. >> now for a glimpse of the debate, i'm joined by the publisher along with the democratic strategist. i top the start with you. that's a debate in new hampshire last week. herman cain was seated between mitt romney and a look at his momentum. doesn't that mean tonight someone has to slap him down? >> but can they? that's the real question. will they be able to. they have to walk a tight rope for a couple of reasons. his rise is not based on

substance even though we are touting the 9-9-9. people who like him like him because they like him. they don't care about his plan. they are happy he has one. then the race thing. they have to be careful how hard they come on him because the party or the tea party has a reputation of being racially insensitive. if they come out too hard and there is a tim pawlenty problem. they came after him hard and that was the end. didn't come after him hard enough. >> that was the end. governor rick perry's performances reduced some people to laughter and his wife to tears. given his apparent lack of knowledge with his problems and issues around the world and problems with articulation, how does he get back up amongst the front-runners? >> i don't think he does. as i said on the show when he entered the race, he was going to be a roman candle and i don't think the guy is ready for prime time.

as karen pointed out in the primary is that the smart money is still on romney. he only has about 30 purse percent of the voters. 70% are anybody but mitt. they started dating michele bachmann and didn't like her. then they dated perry. didn't like him. the same is happening with cain. now that he gets a lot of attention, the 9-9-9 plan has huge holes in it. the numbers don't add up on a host of issues. he too does not seem like that. >> at the end of the day, he has the support he had and drop a couple of points and he didn't blow like a lead balloon the way michele bachmann did. >> here picked up the votes that perry lost. those voters are very, very fickle and they are going from one candidate to the other. they don't like romney.

they haven't found the candidates yet. >> last time she gave us taking 9-9-9 and turn it upside down. do you think she can come out with the apocalypse right now or raiders of the lost ark? >> people are playing roulette with immigration and the idea that they can go after the undecided base voters. what happens in vegas doesn't stay in vegas. obama got 60% and he is down in the 40s. the republicans are playing a very, very dangerous game with the immigration effort as they try to get the right wing voters in vegas. i think people made up their mind bachman is not a serious candidate. >> who is going to win this? >> the nomination or -- >> who will win the nomination? >> i can't call it. it's easy to say mitt romney, but i don't think they like him enough. >> she going to win it or not?

>> he may win it with their noses held, but i don't think so. i think they will go with someone else. >> she abstaining. >> if you look at every gop primary since 1984 at the end of the day, primary voters go with the institutional candidate rather than the activist-based. it happened with george bush sr. and bob dole and george bush in 43 and mccain. they will get smart and go with romney. that's the candidate democrats want to face least. >> here put all his eggs in a basket right now. >> she holding the 1%. it's over. thank you very much. >> thanks for having us. >> as candidates take the stage, the debates in the campaign have become nothing short. six million created more bz on the internet.

the "new york times" have written brilliantly on the subject. good afternoon. sorry to flatter you. why this year and why the sudden surge in debate ratings and where is this coming from? >> from all different directions. it's clear the numbers are about twice as high as they were four years ago. you think back to four years ago how democrats were enthusiastic and even the democratic-led debates were not nearly as popular as now. >> one new poll shows that the debates are more than background noise. 27% of people and almost a quarter of the public watched at least one or more debate. some 34% said that led them to change their minds. >> we are 31 months away from votes being cast. >> that's incredible. >> more news is coming out of the debates than did four years ago. they are driving the political news cycle and they are also ways to meet the candidates.

a lot of them are on the stage for the first time and we are learning a lot about them. herman cain being a great example of that. >> what are about the internet and the kind of digital presence on the story. we are watching the debate and you will be and i will be. everyone is blogging and doing facebook stories and how is the social media driving this? >> this is a big piece and the same way the super bowl and academy awards and all the tv events were getting bigger. we are all chatting about the events and they are becoming the live events. >> but brian, many of us just thought. the digital technology would result in the death of television. what you are saying is that actually digital components are encouraging viewing. >> for big tv events, that's true. the web makes it bigger. we all talk about them in realtime. we don't wait until the next

morning. we want to react in realtime. people have to react. they get to the tv element of this. this is created lick a tv show and has been, but the character this is year are especially compelling and every time it's different. it is like a two-hour reality tv show. >> you are being humble. your feed is gushed over every moment of every day. there 12 more debates over six months. >> probably more. >> there will come a point when viewers think i heard enough about herman cain and alligators and heard enough about mitt romney and the fence or whatever. >> i haven't heard enough yet. i think it's possible we will see a dip as we go into the dip into the winter or the spring. they see the ratings that the debates provide and schedule even more so they can. i won't be surprised if we don't hear about another one next week

and a week after that. a film about himself and congratulations to you on that. i saw it and it's brilliant. back to tonight's debate, we will be live sweeting. we want to hear your thoughts and we'll have much more on tomorrow's broadcast. stay with us. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar.

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imagine if these walls could speak. we go inside the white house war room. first, our play of the day. the tea party has been made an offer it can't refuse. we are not talking about the populous political movement and a band of the same name.

the 90s rock group owned the name since 1993 and it's about to pay off. reportedly to the tune of $1 million in sales.

. banks posted big profits and financial trouble in american homes could impact balance sheets. more with the market wrap. >> good afternoon, martin. before we get to that, we had a 100 point swing to the upside on a report out of a uk paper. the guardian suggesting that germany and france upped the bailout for europe. more than 100 points on the upside and where stocks are trading right now. the average is last traded on the upside for 203 points. standard and poor's up 25 and the nasdaq up 42.

what's one of the key lessons? according to ben bernanke, it is the central bank's goal of controlling inflation of supporting the banking system. a lot of folks are indeed falling behind on credit card payments. the number of late payments rose last month and although the increase was less than a percentage point, that is an indicator of potential default. we will see whether or not we'll hang on to the gain. first in business worldwide. martin, back to you. >> thank you, sue. hillary clinton is in libya's city of tripoli where she is meeting with rebel leaders and the president of the transition on national council. she is the first official to visit libya since the air strikes began in the spring. white house correspondent mike viquiera is traveling with secretary clinton. >> good afternoon. hillary clinton arrived for a

short visit on the ground and trying to encourage the democracy and congratulate the fors and very tenuous as i speak to you sporadically going off in the distance. member of the military are here with ak-47s all the way around. given the fact that this is a young democracy and brings up an issue that secretary clinton herself and those with her brought up many times over the course of the last 24 hours as we prepare for the trip. that is the militias that were successful from the 42-year-old reign, operating independently around the country. she is calling for unity and centralized command. as for gadhafi, many believe he is hold up in sirt. there is sporadic fighting with loyalist and revolutionary forces. one other thing since it dame up often. the role of women in a libyan

democracy. secretary of state clinton thought that a number of times we are hearing university in drippily. martin? >> thank you. the arab spring as it became known has seen the outbreak of protest and democracy in north africa. it also presented president obama with a unique challenge, how to support the various move ams that governments to help overthrow and stabilize. in the case of libya, the president acted far more forcefully and assertively than many critics realized. that's the conclusion of a story just published in the latest edition of rolling stone magazine. with us is the writer and editor, michael hastings. you write that libya was the first war that president obama started on his own. are you suggesting therefore that his role as commander in chief evolved since he became president? >> exactly.

i considered libya and the operation against osama bin laden is the president's blank slate foreign policy opportunities. he is dealing with and it's his staff who created the operations who made the plants and he himself made the decisions. we have seen with the president who made his own. we will be intervening. america's latest in the mideast. >> one of the contrasts you draw in your article is between the president's conduct and leadership on foreign affairs as compared to domestic issues. why do you think there is this contrast aside from the fact that we have a do nothing congress. >> that's part of it. you have more power in the presidency and once you make the decision, you have the wait of our national security state behind you.

>> is the president more himself on foreign policy or more himself on domestically? >> i would say that the president is an intellectual. he is not a cowboy to kick him ride into the sunset kind of guys. he's going to look at both sides of the debate, he's going to absorb the information, and then he's going to act. he does that on domestic policy and on foreign policy. when he does than in foreign policy, he can do it. domestic policy, all of a sudden, he runs into these jerks in congress. >> indeed. defense secretary robert gates argued to the end the gates intervention in libya fearing a stalemate. but president obama took what could be described as a moral and humanitarian approach. did he do that because he was mindful of what happened with president clinton in rwanda, where we know a genocide occurred. i went to rwanda. i walked into a church where there were 326 dead bodies as a result of nobody intervening. was that what was in president obama's mind?

>> that's exactly what it was. he had put key advisers around him, susan rice, hillary clinton herself, who were seared by the rwanda experience, as you described it. this sort of failure of the west to act. and the president was very interested in these things himself, and when he had an opportunity to say, look, i get what you're saying, secretary gates. like, libya may not be a vital national interest, but it's the right thing to do. me being the cynical journalist type, i'm like, oh, yeah, right, how can that actually be true. but i truly believe that when the president was given an opportunity where he thought he could save some lives and get us on the right side of history in terms of the arab spring, he took that chance. >> absolutely. against robert gates. why did he choosed that in libya and not in syria? >> well, now, here is the one caveat to the entire humanitarian argument, right. when or principles match up with our interests, we're happy to make the principle -- >> right.

>> so that is the sort of undercuts the good news story. but i think the reality of american power and the reality of the washington, d.c. bipartisan national security con census is that it's a democrat and republican and they both think the same thing. so when you're choosing a leader -- i thought about this going into 2012. do you want a leader that's going to be relying on multilateral institutions like the united nations or do you want one that thinks nations should be -- >> disbanded. >> exactly. and i think that's really important. >> how much do you think the president's willingness to stand alongside nato, not put american troops on the ground, but resource some of the attacks on gadhafi, how much has that improved america's standing overseas, do you think? i think it was huge. i've talked to people who are in close contact with the libyan rebels, even islamist elements of the rebels, who are saying

really positive things of the united states. does that mean they'll continue to say positive things of the united states? no. but i think, especially after, you know, decades of -- our role in the middle east has been so corrupt. i mean, let's just be honest, right? >> corrupt? >> corrupt in terms of supporting regimes that have not had a good track record on human rights. >> dictatorships? >> exactly. and to move away from that is not going to happen overnight and it's going to take time. and to be able to do it, you know, libya is a first step, or at least that's how the administration sees it. >> you report on a meeting on march the 18th in which the president invited 18 congressional leaders to the oval office and simply announced what he was going to do. and one staffer, you quote, and i'm reading from you, you say, it wasn't a consultation. that a break with this style of, you were just describing, of an intellectual who likes to weigh all the opinions.

here's a guy who has a meeting, invites these people, and says, here's what i'm going tooed. >> and it angered congress, immensely, these sources were furious that the president did this. on the one hand, they're accusing him of waffling, on the other hand, they're saying, well, he just went ahead and did this. so it's sort of like, make up your mine. i think this gets back to the idea that, a, the imperial prthsy, the president wanting to maintain the power of the office to act when he wants to act in terms of making foreign policy decisions. congress was out of session that day. >> some would say conveniently. >> conveniently, yeah. and someone i spoke to who was your close to the rebels said, you know, well -- it was expletive, congress. in terms of congress just wanted to make a show in terms of doing something, but they wouldn't have stopped it anyway and it would have been more of this kabuki theater. i would prefer that we go to war and take military action, we consult with our own legislative

bodies. but, again, within this context, i think the president felt that he needed to act without a long, drawn-out debate. >> michael hastings, contributing editor of "rolling stone," thank you very much for joining us. and we'll be right back to clear the air. ♪ [ mrs. davis ] i want to find a way to break through. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make education a little more personal. so every student feels like her only student. dell. the power to do more.

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the sign of the beast. perhaps herman cain will repeat his view that if illegal immigrants fall into the moat that he wants to build on the border, then they'll either be eaten by alligators, or if they survive such an ordeal, he'll personally give them a job in one of his pizza houses. in one sense, this debate isn't really about who's going to reason for president in 2012, because most experts already have mitt romney as the candidate and he looks well-set. no, this debate is an audition for future employment. it's not "the x factor," it's "the fox news factor," because even though individuals at the bottom of the pooling heap know that if they can cause a stir, they, too, could secure a lucrative contract, just like sarah palin, at their favorite network. so, as we prepare for tonight's debate, perhaps we should keep in mind the words of charlie