aid dree en, you got on the road and are headed there now. what have you seen today? >> yes, good afternoon, richard, we were on our way to sirte and we started to hearing at various checkpoints that gadhafi has been captured and later we learned he was killed and his body was going to be brought to misra misra misratah, we're now heading back. we've heard that he's being brought -- has been brought to a morgue. we expect to see large celebrations on the street. misratah was the scene of fierce fighting earlier this year. there have been a lot of celebrations even along the road, celebratory gunfire and lots of militia men stopping to show us the video footage that you mentioned. it is rather gruesome and we haven't been able to independently confirm but it

shows the body of what looks like gadhafi, either in the back of a vehicle or on the ground shirtless with blood around his head. he appears to have a bullet hole in his neck or back of his head. we met militia men that reportedly saw the bodies of his son, also in the back of an ambulance. and then we -- militia men with tokens of items that belongeded to gadhafi including a ring and hat and 9 millimeter gun and bottle of shampoo taken from his hideout in sirte. >> as you're mentioning, the u.s. government has not confirmed this death as of yet. as you have been speaking with those militia men on the side of the road, as you've been taking that trip to misratah have they indicated, any of them, that

they doubt the reports that are out there right now that indeed gadhafi is dead. >> no, there's been no expression of doubt. the one thing we have been very certain about with our reporting is the mood. everybody here is excited, jubilant and relieved perhaps. this is a big, big step for them. they can start looking to very difficult work of creating a new government and new country. but there's been no doubt expressed by any men we've spoken to. >> are the roads packed? do you see everybody going to misratah because of the report that the body is being moved there? >> we're seeing quite a few vehicles. it's been kind of a trickle than full flood. there was a couple of hours ago when everybody believed the convoy carrying gadhafi's body went past us on the road from sirte to misratah, there were several dozen vehicles, 15 or 18

wheelers went by and ambulances. >> is there any word in terms of what will happen once his body, if it is indeed being moved there, what will happen to his body and what the plans might be? has there been any talk about that? >> there's been no talk. it's been very difficult to get a clear answer from anyone here on the ground. of course, the fighters don't really know, various members of the interim government have not come forward with a clear plan with what to do with his body. we hope we'll be able to talk to some of the military senior officers in misratah who might have a sense of what the next step is -- >> before i let you go, how has it changed as you've been making that trip there from sirte to misratah and over the course of the morning. we got the reports about six hours ago. tell us how it's changed in that

amount of time as you've been making this trip? >> well, there was just a lot of confusion and chaos in the morning. it was very hard to verify anything that we were hearing from various places on the ground here. we were in misratah this morning and the folks we know were not able to confirm the media reports that sirte had fallen. by the time we heard about gadhafi we were on the ground. and at that point the mood was less chaos and more celebration. i would say now people have sort of accepted that the event they've all been waiting for. >> when do you expect to get there? >> i'm sorry? >> when do you expect to arrive in misratah? >> we're fast approaching there now. probably within a half hour. >> in the car moving towards misratah where the reports are that the body of gadhafi is being moved to. she'll be standing by to get us

the latest on the ground. thank you so much. joining me now, nbc news foreign correspondent ayman and barry mccaffrey and former u.s. ambassador mark ginsburg who serve the as adviser under president carter. ayman, you've been talking with the people and your sources on ground there. what have you heard about what happened those moments before these reports of gadhafi being killed? >> i spoke to one of the rebel commanders involved, his was one of the many involved and i've been told 1:30 local time, one of the brigades on south west part of the city near a feed factory noticed there was some suspicious activity in nearby building. they came under fire and that triggered a 30 to 45-minute gun fight. they did not know gadhafi was one of people in the building. it was extently afterwards when

they were able to control the area that they realized they had gadhafi. i was told he was actually taken alive. he was wounded but was not killed in the initial capture that was taken by the rebels. he subsequently died as he was being transported to misrata in an ambulance or maybe before even was put in the ambulance. we also know his son and senior security official was also captured. now we're also hearing report that mul sal am may have been been killed at the hands of rebels. >> the capability of the pro-gadhafi forces now with the reports of gadhafi being dead. what does that mean for that pro-gadhafi move? >> well, i think we ought to assume it's extremely good news. it will unite the rebel onin ways they were consumed by anxiety, having been dominated for 40 years. this is good news. my guess is that takes the air of the continuing struggle. now comes the period of

retribution and i try to remind people, gadhafi had many people helping him as winners expressed as society. they have too sort this out. there will be a lot of cruelty and confusion in the coming year. >> ambassador, as we look to the next step, we have to look at the transitional council and what they might do with this development. what are your thoughts? >> the most important thing is coincidentally i was spoesed to have a meeting with the libyan ambassador to the united states to discuss the most urgent humanitarian crisis that the national transitional council faces that is from war veterans and wounded. there are tens of thousands of civilians and others not received adequate medical care. the hospitals are overloaded. they need prosthetic devices and in a personal capacity, i was helping to around some government -- not governmental

assistance and the most important thing will be consolidation as general mccaffrey said of reconciliation rernlg than retribution to make sure the government seizes control over all of these areas of the country. and finally, most importantly, to show it can begin providing this urgent services that are necessary before people begin complaining enough to cause dissension within the national transitional council. >> you mentioned medical care, ayman, the every day libyan, what this means after 42 years, only new one way. generations only thinking of moammar gadhafi, the colonel there ruling their country. remind frus your extensive reporting what it is like in the average libyans and the questions that must be coming to mind. >> the first thing we can say safely about what is going to change in libya in the short term is that the fear factor has been broken. 42 years people were living in a state of fire. general mccaffrey mentioned it was a system and regime in place

but it was a regime that existed on the basis that everyone was afraid of the person above them. and now that that fear factor has been broken, that this regime has been broken, it's going to be about power. it's going to be about resources. it's going to be about the government's ability to actually carry out day to day functions for ordinary libyans. most of the libyans i've been speaking to extremely happy about being able to turn over a new page. they recognize there's going to be a lot of differences on the tactic but they have always seen the struggle part of an organic movement of libyans trying to improve their life. now it's going to be whether or not the government has the ability to put forth to the libyan people a very clear path as to how this transition is going to unfold. that is going to be the ultimate test and immediate short term. >> in that transition here, general, we now have nato forces still under activity. what is next for them at this moment? do they stand down? what should she do with the

remaining forces that are supporting gadhafi, mercenaries and otherwise? >> i can't imagine much of a role left nor nato. it was primarily air power, u.s. predator strikes. the italians and french are right at the limit of using air power, it almost broke nato. u.k. commander said he couldn't sustain it beyond september. i think nato now moves off stage. hopefully we'll see the saudis, egyptians and tunisians and others directly get engaged. and also, a requirement for the u.s. to get in there on the ground with a strong embassy and try to play a positive role. these poor people have suffered long enough. now we have a people of rebuilding. >> so one of things that as general was just mentioning about the nato role, there's also the issue of soft power. this is a great opportunity for united states and europe and other countries in the region to really help the libyan transitional council fill the

vacuum, to build the capacity of the state to build the functions of the state. it's a really good time for the united states to earn a lot of that so-called street credibility with the libyan people and with the broader arab world by helping with that capacity building on the ground. >> ambassador, discussing this issue the way the united states has addressed the libyan problem, if you will, it was said earlier on that the way the united states had moved forward with it, not taking a lead role was all together new chapter for u.s. foreign diplomacy. does this then show as we look at what's happening today that it was the right thing to do? what's your perspective? >> victory has 1,000 fathers here and the administration tried to carve out a new doctrine in approaching libya, unlike its previous administration, the way it approached iraq. it went in behind our allies and france and great britain, number

two, at the same time we were deeply involved. i don't think the real story emerged over the real significant involvement that the united states played militarily here behind the scenes. remember, the president in the middle of this suffered at least the political consequences of having to deal with a war powers controversy with republican congress, but everybody agreed at least on the goal and objective, to get rid of gadhafi. unfortunately the real victims here in the long run in the arab world are the syrians because of the support that was given internationally to the libyan people by nato and arab leaders, there's far less of a national consensus over how to help the syrian people who by the way are not rising up through military means but through peaceful means and suffering severe consequences. so the question really is, we've gained with the libyans, the libyan people clearly are grateful for the u.s. role, how does the u.s. parlay this street credibility just mentioned to help others rising up in support of liberty as well.

>> general, i want to get to you before we go to break. what's your perspective on how the united states should plug in for this good will that's been discussed by both the ambassador and ayman? >> i think they are entirely correct. now is the time to get involved with so-called soft power. i would also though suggest, we went into libya, didn't say we were going into to dump gadhafi, we went in behind sort of a u.n. resolution that said we're going to protect the civilians of benghazi. we ented up acting as the nato air force for the rebel yen, not a bad outcome, to prolong the struggle. you can imagine to learn dealing with syria, how about bahrain, how about yemen? the use of military power from the air in some of these other

struggles is questionable. i don't think it's going to happen. we have to rethink what are we going to do about the arab spring? how do we nurture this with other than military means? >> general, great way to dovetail to ayman, last word before we go to a break. what's been the perception of the way the united states has approached the arab spring, specifically now libya in the way it has conducted itself over the recent months? >> in one word it's very simple, inconsistent. it has not been a consistent policy across the arab world. it has not been a value-based foreign policy towards this part of the world. and i think the arab people get that in. the case of libya, there has been a very rare moment of convergence of interest that the majority of the arab street if you will wanted to see gadhafi removed. that is why with the help of nato and an arab league resolution that asked for that help, there's a huge convergence between what the west wants and people in the arab street want. that has been very different

with countries. we saw with the case of egypt, the u.s. secretary of state and u.s. government, slow to come out and support the revolution there, hesitant in the issue of bahrain, reluctant in the issue of syria and sending a mixed message as to whether or not the united states is fully supportive of the arab spring and what the people are trying to do or whether or not it's going to back the wrong horses in the eyes of the people. >> ayman, thank you so much. general mccaffrey as always. thanks so much for your time. we're staying on top of the story all throughout the day on msnbc. we'll have more on the reported death of moammar gadhafi, whether we can confirm or not. we're waiting to check in at the white house to see what they are saying, what secretary of state clinton is saying is she is also in the middle east right now. and what this means for the united states and foreign policy going forward, trying to answer the questions that we have just been discussing. [ male announcer ] drinking a smoothie with no vegetable nutrition? ♪

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breaking news story here on msnbc. let's head to the white house and kristen welker, we're still waiting for confirmation from the white house from the u.s. government. >> reporter: that's absolutely right. white house officials tell me they are working hard to try to get confirmation. one official telling me that they understand that there is an urgency to have some type of confirmation from the white house. but they are operating under an abundance of caution. here's why. remember this summer when tripoli fell. there were a number of conflicting reports that came out of the region, reports that said that rebel forces had captured moammar gadhafi's sons and then we would learn several hours later those reports were false. so the white house wants to get this right. they don't want to speak about

this until they have absolute confirmation. what would confirmation look like? they would need to see a photo or need to hear an actual report from one of their reliable sources on ground. they are trying to work this from every angle to get us information as quickly as possible. white house press secretary jay carney is scheduled to hold a briefing at 12:30. we haven't heard if that's actually going to take place at 12:30 or if that will get pushed back given all of the reports that we're hearing coming out of libya. as you remember this summer, when tripoli fell, president obama came out and support to reporters and said the united states government now recognizes the transitional national council as the legitimate governing body of libya. if this is true, if gadhafi has in fact been killed, it would be significant for a number of reasons, in part because it would open the way for the tnc to move forward with that transitional process. it would also of course be incredibly significant for

president obama. this would likely be seen as another foreign policy success. of course, he is credited with killing osama bin laden or at least under his leadership as well as anwar al awlaki. one thing interesting is that we're hearing senators come out, issue responses to this. senator mccain, senator john kerry, all saying this is of course positive news coming out of the region. senator kerry saying this essentially val dates those nato led military efforts that the united states was involved in. as you remember president obama was criticized for those military efforts, senator john kerry saying this is one more validation that those nato led military efforts were in fact worth it. but the white house not chiming in just yet because the bar much higher. they want to make sure they have 100% confirmation before they come out and speak about this. >> of course we have the white

house briefing coming up. you'll be watching all of that. kristen welker, getting reaction, no doubt positive at the moment based on the reports. waiting for the confirmation for us. republican presidential candidates are weighing in as kristen was indicating as well as other elected officials. these on the reports that gadhafi has been killed. here's some of them. former massachusetts governor mitt romney saying it's about time gadhafi, a terrible tie rant, that killed his own people and murdered americans and others in the tragedy in lockerbie, the world is a better place with gadhafi gone. there's texas governor rick perry released a statement, the death of moammar gadhafi is good news for the people of libya. it should bring the end of conflict there and help them move closer to elections and a real democracy. so reaction from all corners of the election process here in the united states as well as the elected officials here in the united states. next, how the libyan people are

reacting to reports of gadhafi's death. we'll look into that. look, every day we're using more and more energy. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high.

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reports of moammar gadhafi's death come after secretary of state hillary clinton's visit to libya. on tuesday she said she hoped gadhafi would be captured or killed. here's her reaction when she first learned of the reports this morning. take a look at this video. >> wow. >> unconfirmed. >> unconfirmed, yeah. unconfirmed reports about gadhafi being captured. unconfirmed. yeah. we've had -- we've had a bunch of those before. we've have had him captured a

couple of times. >> all right, we have the cameras rolling there. mike vick quer ra, traveling in islamabad for us. tell us, what else is the secretary saying. we saw how she was surprised saying, wow. >> reporter: we should give you background on how the video came in existence, the secretary in her end of time in kabul in afghanistan, she and entourage were a couple of hours ago, she conducted a series much interviews with some of the networks traveling with her and that video happened in between the interviews when a staffer showed her that blackberry and she reacted as you saw. secretary clinton was there just last tuesday. it was a very evident that the secretary and the people traveling with her that the situation in libya was very unsettled. and one of the interesting things she said at that time, even as the fighting rageded in sirte and there were rumors

around tripoli that have turned out to be true apparently that gadhafi was hold up there. the concern that was raised, you've got these disspar at militias, some of them control one area, some control another other. even in tripoli it's partitioned up by the militias who came together and overthrew the government of 42 years but not operating under any type of central authority. the secretary of state clinton while there called for unity and central command and halt at a vigilan vigilantye killings going on. the significance of the death of gadhafi, it starts the clock. the transitional government there, prime minister with whom secretary clinton had a press conference with, had said eight months after the country is secure and by that they meant the pass fiction of sirte, the last gadhafi stronghold and

death of gadhafi it starts the clock, eight months until the next election. having been there with the secretary a couple of days ago, that's a big job ahead of them right now. that country is still very disjointed. the security situation there still very sketchy and the secretary today, i had an opportunity to conduct one of those interviews, i was just telling you about reacting this way while not confirming the death. >> i think there's a big sigh of relief. the job is still daunting, but they won't be quite as worried that they have to be constantly looking over their shouder at him. there still may be remnants of gadhafi loyalists and they'll have to contend with them but i think removing him as an organizing figure of a resistance is a very positive step in indeed it's true. >> reporter: so we are here in islamabad pakistan. as i mentioned, a tour of

dangerous spots, libya, afghanistan and now pakistan, where relations are very tense. she's in talks at a dinner with south american officials. >> this was an unannounced visit. we were talking with you this hour yesterday when you had wheels down with the secretary. this is a coincidence certainly is there any chatter this was happening or based on the conversations you've had with the secretary as well as with her staffers, the future of the transitional government, do they have confidence in what it can do? >> reporter: well, first of all, they were saying the same things off line as secretary of state clinton said online in the sound bite you played in that unguarded moment between interviews there. there have been reports over the past week of all kinds of things that happened with members of the gadhafi family that they had died, that they had fled and were in the south was a rumor

with a lot of currency, the south of libya, for quite some time. that's part of the reason why they are being cautious. that goes across the u.s. government there. the secretary thing is for the very same reason the secretary clinton was talking about this unified or the disspare at element within libya, there is no clear line of communication or authority. any report you get through official quote, unquote channels or transitional council will be inherently not perhaps the most reliable information you're going to get. so the white house apparently according to kristen and certainly the secretary of state and the state department being very careful now not to get too far out ahead of it. there's no reason for them to at this point, richard. >> vik, what is next. will she change her itinerary based on these developments, or

is it too early to say? >> reporter: i don't think so. one of the reasons perhaps that we're not going to see the secretary reacting to this on camera tonight, she was in previously scheduled interviews before when you heard what she just said. she's in very difficult negotiations now, first with president karzai today and with the pakistani leadership. there are a whole range of tensions now, perhaps the highest they've been over the course of the last ten years since the afghan war started really. and these are things that are very difficult issues. she certainly is not going to change her itinerary now. we would be standing here talking about what she's talking about now inside the dinner about the violence brought in by the network in pakistan with the help of some of the pakistani forces, elements within the pakist pakistanmy military and security apparatus, that is something

that is of great deal of concern and something secretary clinton was tough on in her press conference with president karzai. i don't see any change in e itinerary at this point. >> mike, thank you very much. if you're just joining us, it's 6:33 p.m. local time in libya. if you're just joining us in terms of what we know at the moment. we have the details for you coming out of libya where the prime minister and other officials are reporting ma moammar gadhafi has been killed. that is what we know. graphic images have been circulating, including video captured by a rebel fighting. the cell phone video showing the former libyan leader's dead body. rebels say they shot gadhafi as he tried to flee the town of sirte. the white house is working urgently to determine if the reports are true or false. rebels are dancing in the streets of sirte and say they now have gadhafi's hometown completely under their control. sirte was their last remaining

stronghold of loyalist fighters. we also understand at this moment that nature to is report striking a gadhafi convoy but rebels say they found the leader cowering in a drainage pipe that he reportedly shouted out, don't shoot, don't shoot. those are the latest details 12:34 p.m. eastern time. adrienne long joins us by phone. when we spoke 30 minutes ago, you were saying the celebrations were evident in the street and militia were approaching you and you heard gunfire everywhere you went. what are you seeing in misrata? >> we're seeing the entire city -- i have to correct myself, rather hearing. we're set up on a roof top here. we can here gunfire and cars honking. when we drove through the city there were an unbelievable amount of women and children, a sight i haven't seen --

certainly not this number, just cheering -- >> are you there? adrienne was arriving from sirte. she then moved, redirected to misrata where we heard reports that the body of moammar gadhafi was being moved to. she just arrived there moments ago. she had spoken to us 30 minutes ago, sharing with us how the celebrations in the streets were evident, militia men from rebel forces coming over to show her pictures as she made her way to misrata, just arriving and hearing more gunfire in the air. we're going to try to get her back on the phone. we lost contact for a second. if we can, we'll have her here on msnbc as we continue to watch the developments coming out of libya. luck? i don't trade on luck. i trade on fundamentals. analysis. information. i trade on tradearchitect.

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it is a thursday, adrienne mong just arriving in miss ral at a via car. we were able to get contact with her again. adrienne you were discussing you were on a rooftop and hearing gunfire. >> yes, we were hearing gunfire, celebratory gunfire as well as a lot of cars honking and prayers just took place for the end of the day, the sun is setting and a remarkable sight as we were driving back into the city. huge numbers of women and children, a sight i haven't seen yet in libya, certainly not recently out on the streets just cheering in great evidence jubilation. >> as you are watching this jubilation, is there wide concern about safety? is this a very quiet -- i shouldn't say quiet, a safe celebration? >> yes, it seems very much to be

a safe celebration. i have to add, in the time that we've been here, myself and my colleagues and many previous colleagues and previous assignments, there's never been a question of personal safety. the rebel forces have always extended great courtesy to journalists here. clearly they understand that they need their story to be kept reported -- keep people reporting their story. there's never been any issue with safety. >> are they talking at all -- perhaps it could be too early, about what is next for them? this as they now are celebrating a success. have they been telling you what is next and what they plan to do, these rebel militia men? >> no, the men that we're talking to are really not seen yor enough to have any sense of what's next. they are just busy being caught up in the moment. but we do understand that the leader of the interim government will be speaking shortly here in misrata, we're trying to pin down details of that. we know there were statements that came from tripoli earlier

today, of course discussing, confirming the details of what happened today. there hasn't been any firm indication of what's next immediately. it's even hard to pin down. i know when we spoke earlier richard, we were under the impression that gadhafi's body was being brought to a morgue. now we're hearing it might be a mosque. there's that kind of confusion permeates everything on the ground. >> a lot of questions. it has been a very busy six hours and adrienne mong on on the road following the reports that the body of moammar and gadhafi were being moved to misrata from sirte. the president will be making a statement in the rose garden, press secretary jay carney announcing that just moments ago. about an hour and 15 minutes, president obama will make a statement in the rose garden. of course, we'll be following that and the leadup to it on

msn msnbc. let's go to chief pentagon correspondent jim mick la chef xi with details. >> there's been remarkable video shown on some of the arabic news channels, al jazeera for one, as they escort him through a crowd of people and take him out of a pickup truck still alive and load him into a ambulance, which according to libyan officials, part of the transitional national council, was used to transport him from sirte to misrata. and that it was the misrata brigades that actually first took control of gadhafi and he was wounded at this time and it's not clear whether he died of his wounds enroute or as some of the transitional national

council officials have said or whether he could have been killed by those holding him. nevertheless. he was taken into custody alive. the video is quite clear, loaded into an ambulance and sometime between sirte and misrata expired. >> jim mick la skew xi at the pentagon. when we come back, ayman will join us and tell us what he is hearing from the sources on the ground in libya. we'll also discuss what the significance of is islamic jihad and whether the concerns of that faction may or may not have there in the region. [ male announcer ] these are volunteers... our neighbors putting their lives on the line. and when they rely on a battery, there are firefighters everywhere who trust duracell. so, look for these special packs to see how you can help your local volunteers. duracell. trusted everywhere. we don't want anything to slow us down so it's surprising that most women aren't getting enough calcium. with over 25 flavors, yoplait original gives you

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♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. 12:46 eastern time, 6:46 local in libya. we don't have confirmation yet of the death of moammar gadhafi. we do know that 2:00 p.m., president obama will come to the rose garden to make a statement.

we'll be waiting for that here on msnbc. stay with us in the lead up to that. joining us to talk about the future of the this region is nbc news foreign correspondent ayman, you were saying before the break you had new information, talking with sources and contacts there. >> i was talking to one of the rebel commanders and confirmeded to me that the body of moammar gadhafi and son muatassim have arrived in misrata, it confirms two things, one he has been killed along with the top aides and the fact the bodies are in misrata. among those that has survived was the head of gadhafi's personal security detail, very senior security official, he has been handed over to the national transitional council in misrata for interrogation and for whatever ib intelligence he can provide about moammar gadhafi's

other son. >> really good details from you, ayman. steve, with that understanding, if those are correct and confirmed, what does this mean for the future of governance there in libya based on the existence of still pro-gadhafi forces and then we have the transitional government with some concern about islamic forces within it? >> well, i think the two things to think about is that the transitional council have been planning for this day, when there would be a defen tinitive to gadhafi and his regime. from a simple perspective from running cities and water and taking care of daily things, i've been impressed with what the transitional council has been doing, setting up governance in a box, if you will and trying to move a system of governance to cities and villages in the areas they control. this may not be the high drama of the debate and struggles that i think will be coming but

they've been trying to basically see to people's needs. that's very important. the other part of this which will be much more problematic, they have to sort out who the heroes of revolution are. there are a couple of times when you see a quick change in circumstances when tribes from the west came down and tripoli fell. similar kinds of things happened in sirte recently. as ayman knows, there's going to be a political process and potentially brutal struggle in a very -- in a relatively rich nation as these heroes of the revolution demand their stake in a future order. we haven't seen that happen yet. i think that's the next phase and i think it will be complicated. >> ayman, under 42 years of very oppressive rule, you not only have islamic extremists that were upset and wanted freedom, armed jihad was something they would use but there were other factions too that wanted this taste of freedom. therefore they are all unhappy.

should the united states be concerned about any of these groups? >> the united states should be concerned about the process that emerges because at the end of the day what you want is a political space that allows for a variety of ideas to exist. not only of those ideas are necessarily going to aalign with western interest or u.s. interest. what's really important is two things, one the rule of law and single gun. you don't want a lot of tribes or people who may be disgruntled with decisions as they unfold to take up arms. some of the rebel commanders say the tactics of the revolutionary groups will be to try to unify a single arm for the state, which means that the state has the weapons to impose law and to make sure that the cities are secured but at the same time, there's a very clear path as to how this transition is going to take place, what kind of constitution is going to be written. who will be allowed to participate in the drafting of the new constitution. not everybody will be necessarily somebody that the u.s. agrees with. as long as the process is open, that's when you're going to get

the most pluralistic outcome. that will be in the interest of the people there that want it to be more democratic than the past 42 years. steve cleamons, thanks so much for your perspective too. stay with us here on msnbc as we still continue to wait to see confirmation from the u.s. government perhaps we'll get that from president obama in an hour and ten minutes. we'll watch that here on msnbc. [ husband ] you ready for this? i just signed the whole family up for unlimited mobile to mobile minutes. you're kidding. no. where's that money coming from, steve? did it even cross your mind to ask your wife before signing us up for something so expensive? my mother was right; i should have married john clarke. they were free. i got them when i signed us up for unlimited messaging. [ male announcer ] get more value from at&t. buy an unlimited messaging plan, and call any u.s. mobile phone free. at&t. i'm not a line item on a budget.

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we are monitoring all of the video coming out of libya at the moment. se let's bring in roger kres ge on the story. what view might have intelligence played in this? >> i think they played a significant role, when you look at the role of nato and nato's

air power, the role of the intelligence community in coordinating that and providing supports was huge. their relationship, growing relationship with the ntc, the transitional council throughout this was important for a tactical reason. but i think there's a restrategic opportunity. whatever the intelligence community has done to work with the transitional council will pay dividends down the road as this new government forms and they start to make decisions. this is going to be relationship driven, we need to maintain relationships with these individuals and grow them as this government starts to take shape. >> roger, we have ten seconds here. what is next? what's your thought on that? >> well, it's all about security and stability. it's about putting together a governance structure going forward that allows this new government, however it's formed, to make the right choices, the international community has to be a part of it. this job is not done for us, we've got to stay. >> thanks as always, my friend.

>> i'm richard liu, andrea mitchell reports is next. stick around.

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breaking right now, president obama will be making a statement one hour from now on the reported death of ousted libyan leader moammar gadhafi. in libya, it's day one of celebrations. from the capital in misrata that gadhafi has been killed. his reported death brings an official end to the 42-year rule over libya and end to eight months of bloody civil war. the white house says that president obama will be making a statement from the rose garden coming up at 2:00 eastern. and good day, i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. we have a graphic new video reportedly of moammar gadhafi in the hands of rebel fighters this morning apparently while he was still alive. we want to warn you this is very disturbing this is the man reagan one dubbed the mad dog of the middle east. after