"t "the rachel maddow show" is up next. >> this is how hillary clinton found out that moammar gadhafi might be captured or dead or captured then dead. at the time earlier today it was unclear which. >> wow. >> unconfirmed. yeah, unconfirmed. unconfirmed reports about gadhafi being captured. we've add bunch of those before. we've had, you know, have had him captured a couple of times. >> that very, very, very pregnant woman you saw handing secretary clinton her black brry there in that footage, that's fame fours being one of the secretaries senior aides for a long time now and also famous incidentally for being married to congressman anthony weiner. i know, like a weird detail. but it was a small snapshot, a

strange set of detail we got thereabout how the news of moammar gadhafi's capture or death spread around the world. even at the highest levels of government. once the news was confirmed that gadhafi was not just captured but in fact dead, it immediately came clear that there would never be an isratine. remember that? that is the solution to the palestine issue rather than negotiating a two-state solution, iz real and palestine, gadhafi's big innovation is that he would combine israel and palestine to a new thing calls israelatine. he decided he didn't like the names of the months. so august was named after his son, hinabal. july renamed nasar in honor of their second president.

that was the very first and only time gadhafi ever visited the united states. in that speech, he spoke at great length, 90 minutes. he did the whole isratine thing. he pretended to rip up the u.n. charter. he made a who lot of news on that trip because he said he wanted it stay in a tent instead after hotel to room. he wanted to pitch that tent in central park in new york city. he was frankly interested in doing that but new york was not interested in having him, thank you very much. so the kol follow pitched his sleeping tent on property north of the city. property incidentally owned by donald trump 37. the process that resulted in gadhafi finally being allowed to come to new york and pitch both the idea of ssratine and a tent at trump's place, that process started right after 9/11. he was one of the first leaders to denoun the attacks. he shared information about al qaeda and made an agreement with the bush administration to give

up his weapons of mass destruction program. in return what u.s. trade ford that was bringing gadhafi in from the cold. we pretended like gadhafi wasn't a murderous rogue dictator and narcissistic freak show, and add pretend relationship. a facade to treat lib why like a normal country with a normal president. but libya, under moammar gadhafi, was not a normal country and he was an normal president. libya under gadhafi had blown up a 747 over the town of lockerbie. all 249 people on the plane were killed. the people on the ground were killed by callfalling debris. he blew up a passenger jet in 1989. another 170 people killed there. behind the hijacking of an italian cruise ship np in 1984, someone inside the libyan

embassy in london fired at protesters, shot at protesters and killed a police officer. gadhafi is also reported to have had forces storm a prison near tripoli and massacre more than a thousand prisoners there. but then the american relationship with gadhafi went from us bombing libya in 1986 because he was that kind of country and that kind of tyrant, it went from us bombing them in 1986 to this kind of thing. official visit by a delegation of american senators led by arizona republican john mccain. who even tweet bed this trip. tweeted about staying up all night with the colonel and what an interesting man gadhafi was. today in response to the news of gadhafi's death in libya, senator mccaine said, quote, i think it is a great day. >> i think it is a great day. i think the administration deserves great credit. obviously i had different ideas op tactical side but the world is a better place and the libyan people now have a clans.

but this is just the beginning. >> ambassador of the united states from post gadhafi government in libya was asked for his response to gadhafi's death. he said this. >> thank you very much, america. thank you. you took the right decision. >> thank you very much, america. you took the right decision. in february against the backdrop of the popular uprisings all over the arab world, the arab spring, the deck it thor of tunisia, falling in a matter of days, of mosting mubarak in egypt, the border of both of those places be the people of libya took to the streets against their own seemingly permanent seemingly omnipotent deck tator. gadhafi called his own people rats, cockroaches, drug addict and terrorists. he promised he would crush them. whether or not the rebels had the option was clear from the outset in libya that there was never going to be peaceful demonstration movement to get rid of gadhafi.

it was clear it would be an armed conflict, a military conflict. though there were high level defections of libyan officials early on, gadhafi turned the might of the military, including the na militias run by his sons, against the rebels, the people against him. the rebels did not have skills or training it fight very hard no matter how hard they wanted to fight, no matter how much they were willing to sacrifice. >> another rebel showed me he isn't actually armed at all. it is a s a toy gun. this is amazing. he just handed me his gun. it is actually just made of plastic. it is a toy. >> rebels have no communications, no commanders. but they do have weapons. artillery, even surface to surface rockets but no idea how to use them. >> faced with the likely and promised prospect that gadhafi's military would destroy the city of benghazi in libya. the united states agreed it take part in but not lead a military

mission to essentially take the rebel's side. the united nations authorized to protect libya's sill vn villains which meant protecting civilians from gadhafi. those president obama pledged repeatedly that united states would just be one player in an ensemble effort, in fact, the u.s. was in the lead. especially in the first weeks of the operation. we spend more on our military than all other countries in the world combined. and we have been at war constantly for the last ten years. we have military and technological capacity that other countries do not have. when it comes to drones and command and control and intelligence and targeting and surveillance, the united states was in the lead. but over time, compared with other nato countries, the proportion of americans say the proportion of u.s. responsibility in that nato military effort declined. and no u.s. combat troops were ever detroit in libya. by august, gau gaufy fled his

home in tripoli and rebels gleefully overran his compound in tripoli. since taking tripoli, rebels consolidated gains. took control of basically every city and every region in libbo except for gadhafi's hometown of sirte. today sirte fell to the rebels. reportedly while fleeing sirte, moammar gadhafi was killed. i want to show some of what we know happened today. fair warning here, some of these images are a little bit graphic. we will not show them for very long. these images show gadhafi apparently wounded. maybe still alive. but captured in the back of some vehicle. you can see gadhafi raising his arm here, see, as he is being pushed around. people around him taking pictures with him. you can here gunfire, presumably celebratory gunfire, though we don't know, in the background. other footage, obviously chaotic. showing gadhafi's ded body on the ground.

after a lot of conflicting reports of exactly how he died, there is now no ambiguity of the results. moammar gadhafi is now dead. >> when gadhafi and his forces started going city to city, down by town to brutalize men, women and children, the world refused to stand idly by. faced with the potential of mass atrocities, and a call for help from the libyan people, the united states and our friends and allies stopped gadhafi's forces in their tracks, without putting a single u.s. servicemember on the ground, we achieved our objectives. and our nato mission will soon come to an end. working in libya with friends and allies, we have demonstrated what collective action can achieve in the 21st century. >> what collective action can achieve. collective action for problems for which the world takes collective responsibility. responsibility to protect civilians. if there is an instance in which

the world agrees, the civilized world agrees, the organized civilized world agreece, that something needs to be done that requires force. the united states will take part as part of collective action. the president today not only reflecting on the death of gadhafi but using an example to explain american foreign policy, a world in which we are the biggest and most capable military in the world. but in a world where we have questions about how frequently and where we should use that military might. we will act when there is a problem in the world that requires force to address it. the u.s. will be involved. well help organize and lead when necessary. but we will act collectively. we will act with others. vice president biden but putt it more bluntly and simile today about simply. >> an example of how the world is beginning to work together. >> joining me is richard engel who is in libya when the we re bellon began and was there to see tripoli fall in august.

richard, thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you very much. ways here in new york when i got the call early this morning that there were these reports that gadhafi was captured. and i think i've been in this building ever since. >> we sort of knew this day might be coming. it a eemed like the fall of gadhafi became inevitable during this uprising. a year ago today, could you have for seen a popular uprising in libya toppling him? >> absolutely not. gadhafi was strong. after the iraq war, when he decided to give up his weapons program, he was emerging as a international figure again. he would come in from the cold. he was making better relations with the united states. better relayinges with europe. gadhafi's position aier ago looked pretty strong strong. >> let me ask you if you think this is over now. do you expect there could be more violence that there could be left over elements of the gadhafi regime or from anyone

else who might have this insurgency against the new government in libya? >> well, the war is over. and the war against gadhafi and his regime ended today. there could be elements who decided to set off a car bomb in tripoli or benghazi. that's possible. you don't need very many people to carry out a couple of terrorist attacks or open fire some place. but a war that involves rebel colu columns, moving to advance, to drive back cities and take over cities. no, i think that phase is over. >> what do you know? what do you expect about what this new government will be like toward its own population, but also internationally, toward potentially extremist groups and toward the united states? >> well, it will be a religious government. the people are libya are quite religious. it is no doubt that every time you hear the rebels say something, they say allah akbar.

there will be character going forward in the libyan state. and the same in tunisia. it looks like islamic parties will win. probably the same in egypt. but also in libya, i expect, a very pro american government. right now, the most pro american movement in the entire middle east. when i was there, journalist within american journalist, or anyone from nato country, could basically do no wrong. i don't remember paying for a single coffee when i was in libya. you would go and try and pay and somebody would come up and take your bill for you. so it is a country that definitely appreciates the support it got from america in particular, from france especially and we will try and engage them in their foreign policy. >> we have talked about this before, richard, libya is just crawling with weaponry. gadhafi stock piled weapons

beyond any reasonable military need. the company is stuffed with assault rifles, land mines, land fired missiles, shoulder fired missile. can there be some sort of effort to secure that? >> they need to start securing that right now. there are some efforts under way and luckily there are two cooperative countries on the borders. there are, you know, we have tunisia and egypt, both of don't want to see massive amounts of illicit arms trafficking through. the problem is you have aljeera and niger and sudan which don't control borders or care if wappo weapons come through. i know people in the intelligence communities are deeply concerned that groups like al qaeda and north africa are getting already some of the weapons that have gone missing in libya. so that is probably the biggest

problem that the region will face. is that gadhafi just bought so many weapons. new weapons. from italy. from the uk. and people don't know where these weapons are going. >> nbc news chief important to correspondent richard engel on a day like this sb whose job is to explain this to americans. i know have you been doing this all day richard, but it is really helpful. >> can i throw one thing in? i think you will like it. >> of course. >> you talked about iraq and now gadhafi wanted to come in from out of the cold. the reason he decided to reengage the united states was when he saw saddam hussein in that hole being pulled out by the americans. that was his epiphany moment when he decided, you know what, i better get rid of my weapons, get rid of this lockerbie situation. yet today he was pulled out after drainage pipe by rebels who then smacked him around,

pulled his hair then ultimately put a bullet in his forehead. >> richard, thank you. appreciate it, my friend. some of you may remember, there is a little used space on the rachel maddow show. the rachel maddow show man cave. i know, awesome. the place reserved for conversations just with the fellas. conversationes with the fellas that are about the ladies. and how the ladies work. mitt romney, i'm officially inviting you to the rachel maddow show man cave. it is clear there are gaps in your knowledge about basic lady physiology. come on over. i have an xbox. come on. that's next. supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now.

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mitt romney has only taken four questions. so maybe he is getting soft. i say that because today in sioux city sioux city iowa, a woman asked about positions that seems to have stum 7ed governor romney. p is sort of weird that he did not have an answer prepared for this. i'm sure his campaign knowes this question is out there. even just because this show has been e-mailing his campaign trying to get an answer on this issue for sometime now. and i ne that other news organizationes have been asking him too. other news organizations have written that they have asked for comment on this issue too. so they know there are questiones about this. but mitt romney seems to have no idea. >> you are on governor huckabee's show a few weeks ago. and one of the things that you folks talked about, was that you

support a life begins at conception. now, that would essentially mean that banning most forms of birth control. 98% of american women, including me, use birth control so can you help me understand why you oppose the use of birth control? >> i don't. i'm sorry. life begins at conception. birth control prevents conception. >> mr. romney went on to explain he is anti-abortion and he wants roe versus wade overturned about you this voter in iowa was not asking about roe versus wade. she was asking about this. >> would you have supported the constitutional amendment tos establish life at conception. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> the life begins at conception amendment. these amendments that mitt romney and huckabee say they support. these amendments do not just ban

abortion. they ban abortion outright. but in addition to that. if any fertilized egg is considered a person, a miscarriage would be cause for criminal investigation as potential murder. and as that sioux city voter asked about, a law like this could also outlaw some forms of birth control. people facing the prospect of one of these amendments understand that it could potentially ban birth control. these images from the ralei ral to save the pill, this week. mitt romney must not understand that he says this is what he supports absolutely. the birth control ban. there is one on the ballot in mississippi. that's what it is designed to do. whether or not mitt romney understands his own position, thanks to this awesome hero after voter in sioux city, iowa today, mitt romney at least can no longer avoid the question. >> i don't know if you want to have some staff look into this, but hormonal forms of birth control work a little differently so they prevent

implantation, not conception. so it would ban hormonal forms of birth control which is what most women use. so i don't know if you want to look into that but as someone who uses birth control this is a terrifying pros secretary to me. so i hope can you look into that be, i guess. thank you. >> thank you. appreciate that. >> appreciate that. mitt romney may appreciate that but i don't think he understands that. the woman trying to explain to mitt romney that his position does naen birth control could be outlawed, seeing that happen today, in iowa and seeing that mitt romney just move on and not address what she said about birth control is one of those moments. i watched this three or four times today. what is this -- you know what it is getting at for me? one of those moments in american politics and you look around and you realize, you know what? politics is mostly guys. and the media is really mostly guys. and the way we talk about politics is mostly guys.

sometimes guy in politics talk about uteruses and sometimes i'm not sure they really get it. we have done this one time on the show before. we got tons of criticism for it. but i think it is warranted. ladies, women watching this show, you can take a powder. you can leave for a second. we're going back to the man cave set. all right. i'm just going talk to the mel kwaes here for a second. this is our virtual man cave set. do we have the special -- didn't would he w dough a special mitt romney edition to make mitt romney feel more at home here? do we have that? oh, yeah, har vrd, see? harvard. salt lake city city olympics. do we have that one? oh, yeah, there we go. all right oh, oh, and a beer. and so everybody is okay it is near beer. all right, fellas. this is just for the guys now. it is very sim im. this is how a baby is made. here is the basic idea. egg gets produced. in the ovary. which then starts moving on up thanks to your old pal, the fa

lonian tubes. if that egg meets up with sperm, that's where you guys come in. if that egg happens to meet up with sperm and the egg gets fertilized, it heads on into the uterus and attaches itself to the wall in there. if all this goes well, it emerges about nine months later as a lovely baby or in my case, an angry red thing look that looked like a raisen and had black hair that stood out like this. second beer for this one. sometimes people like to engage in acts that result in, um, sperm getting near these parts and the eggs and everything. even though the people involved in those activities would not like to result in pregnancy. i know this is a very, very upsetting concept. but we are talking the vast majority of straight ladies who at some point in their lives want to do the kind of thing that means you may encounter

sperm in these there relevant parts but despite the fact that sperm sarnd they may be around they do not want to get pregnant. you can have sex without getting pregnant. the most commonly used contraceptive method in this country, particularly for younger women were be hormone based contraceptives. put my hand up if you are lost at this point. i know this can be upsetting. it can be too much. here, watch this. okay. excellent, right? come on. yeah, all right. one more? can we have one more picture? yeah. vince, 330 pounds. running wi running the ball down the field after getting an amazing interception against san diego. i know, right in okay, hormonal birth control. this causes changes in a woman's body so even if there is sperm

in the right neighborhood a pregnancy does not result. this kind of birth control works in a few different ways actually. up in this part, up here up north, it works to stop ovulation to stop the production of eggs. but that is not the only thing it does. it also changes this other part here to stop sperm from getting to the very important part of the lady parts where that egg just might be. it also changes this part, so that if somehow an egg is produced and if somehow a sperm does get to that egg, that fertilized egg will not implant in this part of the body and start to grow into an embryo. this is how the birth control pill works. how the iud works. how the morning after pill works. h is how that ring thing your girlfriend told you about that you didn't totally understand, this is how that works. this is how birth control used by the vast majority of american women works. this is how hormonal birth control works. this is how birth control works that mitt romney told hucky he

would like to make illegal when he supports a life begins at conception amendment. that that's why people are making signs like these in mississippi. if that sperm and that egg happened to get in that specific neighborhood together and that egg becomes fertilized and that's a person then anything that keeps that fertilized egg from being implanted could be illegal. so the pill, illegal. iud, illegal. that ring thing, illegal. hormonal birth control, illegal. at least if mitt romney gets his way. and state constitutions are amended to get the government involved in litigating the secretary second by second legal stat status of what is happening in somebody girlfriend's uterus on friday night. okay, out of the man cave. but i'm keeping the beer. ladies, can you come on back. i know is awkward to talk about these things sometimes. do you believe this is talked about on cable news at 9:00 on thursday? i know, right. but this is what man caves are for. we have to do this even though it is waurkd.

criticize away. right now mitt romney's stated spogs that he would absolutely support an amendment to bake birth control illegal. he said he does not want to make birth control illegal. this woman in sioux city iowa called him on it. she called him on it in a purely factual way. and she did notice he never answered the question. >> were you satisfied to your question on birth control rights? >> the question wasn't on abortion rights, it was on birth control. i think is troubling that someone running for president doesn't understand how birth control works. i think that's part of the problem. you know, they are campaigning on these extreme bills that would say life begins at conception and not contemplating the consequences. >> iowa town hall, hero. even if mitt romney does not understand he wants to ban birth control, that woman in iowa understands that that is mitt romney's position. mitt romney does not seem to be taking questions from news organizations on this topic. ever since he told mike huckabee

he absolutely would favor a constitutional amendment to ban birth control. he doesn't seem to be taking questions from news organizations on this. but you know what in mitt romney has it take questions from voters. tonight at our website you might be able to find and present your copy of the rachel maddow show man cave not too upsetting guide to the down-there parts. can you print it out and keep it this your pocket. if you run into mitt romney, maybe can you point out the relevant parts and get him to understand. hoes, i put'em in my car, i put'em in my vases. girl, i been put'n'em for as long as i can remember. [ male announcer ] how do you get your bounce? [ woman ] sheets, i put'em! exclusive to the military. and commitment is not limited to one's military oath. the same set of values that drive our nation's military are the ones we used to build usaa bank. from free checking to credit cards to loans, our commitment to the military, veterans, and their families is without equal.

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s? here is the headline on msnbc at 12:35 eastern time this afternoon. g gadhafi body now in misrata. here is the headline at the same time, moammar gadhafi is dead. here is the headline on fox news that exact same time. rick perry backs flat tax. hey, look, there's steve forbs. in republican land, gadhafi shmadafi. this flat tax thing is the big news. this guy that was supposed to be the front-runner but isn't, took a page out of the play book of the i go who wasn't supposed to be the front-runner about but is tp. on the pocket of cain's 9-9-9 plan, perry want some of the sweet tax action. >> the long-term growth strategy

requirees a fundamental reform of our tax code. it starts with scraping, excuse me, you might want to scrape it too, but scrapping the three million words of the current tax code, starting over with something simpler. a flat tax. >> a flat tax. rick prry will apparently announce the details of his flat tax next week during speech in south carolina. rick perry was supposed to be in first place by now, wasn't he? he was supposed to save the republicanes from mitt romney. rick perry is the jobs gov more, right? rick perry never lost an election if his life. set southern rich guy and a ton of money and yet, look at where rick perry is now, polling in a state like iowa. he is polling sixth behind newt gingrich and michele bachmann. rick perry's appearance yesterday in nevada did not seem to do him any favors in that state. on that campaign stop, quote,

there was little enthusiasm for perry's candidacy. this is not to say that rick perry won't have a resurgens in months ahead but if he is going to have a resurgens, it will need fuel. it doesn't look like it'll happen on its own. which brings us to the flat tax. an attempt to steel herman cain's mojo by offering his own 9-9-9 type tax plan. he has been received well on the campaign trail but he did get scored in terms of what it would do economically bp jerry bernstein has a helpful graph from the tax policy center showing the impact of 9-9-9 for groups. under 9-9-9 the bottom 20% of americans see their taxes go up by 1800 bucks a year up. taxes would go up by about $4,000. middle 20%, that's $4300 tax hieb, please. under 9-9-9 version of the flat tax, lowest income americans would see their taxes go up, all

of them, right? but the richest americans on the other hand, look what happens for the top 1% richest americans. that's a tax cut of $238,000. thank you herman cain. then the top 0.1%. check out what their tax cut would like like under this plan. scroll down to see how far -- keep going. still going. still going. still going. keep going, going, going. come on, scroll faster. joez. yeah. that's still their tax cut. oh, there we go. okay. under this sort of flat tax, the pop 0.1% of americans get a tax cut of $1.3 million. so wow. yeah. look, that's how small you have to make it in order to get it to vaguely to scale. rick perry, are you sure you want to jump on the flat tax bandwagon right now? how n.o.w. that people are figuring out what that would actually look like? wow. nobel prize winning economist

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the interview tonight is paul krugman.

our long-term growth strategy, requires a fundamental reform of our tax code. it starts with scraping -- excuse me, well you might want to scrape it too. but scrapping the 3 million words of the current tax code,

starting over with something simpler, a flat tax. >> a flat tax. the flat tax is the new p 09 x. it is like this year's red tie white shirt blue jacket. the most expensive failed vanity republican presidential candidacy of 1996. hi, steve forbs. it's back. and these guys think that it's money this time. cot flat tax do for rick perry what 9-9-9 has done for herman cain? joining us now for the interview is nobel prize winning economist paul krugman. thank you for your time tonight. >> hi there. >> politically everybody is poised for the inevitable rick perry campaign come back. next week he is due it unveil his plan for a flat tax. how would that work? what would you see the impact of that being, given its popularity among the republican can dates right now? >> wow. i mean, i can't predict what republican base is going to say.

i mean, the cain plan looks like a total disaster from the point of view of most americans and that almost has to be true of anything perry proposes as well, right? a flat tax almost by definition will be a big tax increase for the poor and middle class. >> in terms of pulling ourselves out of the economic hole that we're in, stemming a second recession, as far as i understand it, we really have a demand problem. we desperately need to put some more demand into the economy so businesses have a reason to hire people because they have people to sell to. what would a flat tax achieve in that regard. >> well, in a first proclamation nothing but to a second, maybe worse. in all, people will be hit by it made worse off are the people living closer to the edge and will therefore cut spending. the people benefiting are the people who have plenty of money already and won't spend the extra windfall. but the real question is why on

earth are we talking about this right now? we have 14 million unemployed people. tax policy, if it has any impact at all, it is long-term. even if you thought that this kind of tax reform was a good idea, which you shouldn't, this is not the time. we should be focusing on the unemployment problem. it says something about the gop right now, that this is what they are arguing about. >> in terms of unemployment, you have been early and off then persistent critic of president obama on economic policy on whether or not he is focusing enough on bringing unemployment down. president obama is now barn storming the country with a pretty populist economic message. are you feeling encouraged at all, economically speaking, by what you are seeing from the white house or do you think it is not enough? >> well, the new jobs plan is a funny thing. it is a lot better than i expected and it is greatly encouraged. it is also vastly inadequate. on one hand you say, look, this

is about a quarter of what we heed. on the other hand, at least it is a quarter of what we need, h is a lot closer certainly to anything the republicans are saying and closer to where we should be than where obama was not long ago. at least he has the right message new. since it's not going to be enacted, the numbers in a way don't matter that much. >> in terms of the right message and basically having the right conversation about the right problem, i know that you went down to occupy wall street protests tonight to see the demonstrations down there. do you feel like that has had any affect at moving the conversation at least to be framed on the right problems, if not the right solutions? >> you know, conversation changed a lot in just the last month or so. you and i are both people who track this a lot. and just six weeks ago, it was all deficit, deficit, deficit, which is the wrong subject and no talk about jobs. all of a sudden we are talking about jobs. some of that is obama. but i think a lot of it is occupy wall street stuff. it is amazing actually.

these are such a good natured mild mannered group of demonstrators. this was not the -- these were your neighbors. but just because somebody finally stood up and said, hey, the real problems are not the things you guys are talking about seems to have made a big difference to the country. >> paul krugman, nobel prize winning economist, always a valued guest on this show. we will always talk to you paul, whenever you will talk to us. >> thanks a lot. >> thanks a lot. turns out the koch of all people are mad at me, mad at us as a show. . which is weird and also sort of awesome. my response to them is next. with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a non-narcotic treatment that's fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens,

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plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth! big, big. big big big big? big big big big big. big big...big. ♪ big big big -big. -big! [ cheers and applause ] ♪ big big big -big big. -big! -big -big! -♪ big -big. -big big big. big big big. big big big. small. big big big big. small! [ male announcer ] the space-saving, eco-friendly, totally unique smart. unbig. uncar. ♪ koch industries, the koch brothers are mad at us. christmas comes early. it is the second largest privately held corporation in the country founded by, let's call him dad. founded by fred koch in 1940. the company is still in the family. it makes chemical, runs

refineries, has its sketchy overseas subsidiary dozen business with iran even though that's supposed to be illegal for americans. koch industries is doing great. they're doing great for the koch family. for the koch brothers who inherited the company from dad, the koch brothers are richer than warren buffett now. a combined fortune of $50 billion. as they have become richer and richer and richer, they have also fired thousands of koch industries employees. now, remember, koch industries is private. profits do not go to people who buy stock in the company on the stock exchange. the profits go to the brothers, to charles and david. and the brothers have done great recently. and as they have done great, as they have done greater and greater and greater in the last few years, they have been firing american workers by the thousands. but now they are mad at me, at this show, which is exciting for all of us here, i will not life. the koch brothers have always used their enormous inherited fortune to dabble in politics.

in 1980, david koch ran for president on the libertarian ticket. >> the party can afford to go it alone financially because its vice presidential candidate, industrialist david koch, is loaded. and under campaign law, he can spend as much as he wants. >> when you are the richest man in new york city, say, when you are one of the richest heir to an oil and chemical fortune in the world and the law says you can spend without limits. do you know things like this for your campaign. david koch paid to mint dimes with his own face on them. that's him in the back as his own vice presidential candidate. he minted dimes with his own head like he was caesar. koch bucks to promote him running for president in 1980. since then he and his brother have become republicans. they fund republican candidates and they fund the big money parts of the republican tea party movement. all the americans for prosperity stuff in the tea party movement, that's koch brothers and their koch box. in the mid of all that activism, the brothers are still very busy.

they still own dad's giant oil and chemical conglomerate. keys to the kingdom, operations in 60 countries give or take a republic or two. charlie and david koch are still running the empire dad gave them. only now they're running it in ways that try to i cannot just money but also political points. so last week koch industries posted this map of their job openings in the u.s. to put your mind at ease. 48 koch jobs in wisconsin. one koch job in north dakota. nevada, arizona, utah, you don't get any koch jobs. sorry. this is note they put one their map. job openings. it says for those concerned with jobs, koch has some good news. it is looking to fill 1,200 jobs across the country. to be fair, they do think about jobs a lot. for example, after congress passed the first economic stimulus to create jobs in 2009, the koch funded americans for prosperity group ran ads attacking democrats who voted for it. when the money from that stimulus started flowing to local governments to create

jobs, the americans for prosperity group demand that had local governments reject that money. now that we are facing a double dip recession and president obama is calling on congress to create jobs and infrastructure and for cops and teacher and firefighters, the koch brothers' political arm is talking about the, quote, shadow of threats to loom if the government creates jobs. if the government tries to stop people being laid off to help the economy. backed by the koch brothers, the americans for prosperity has been driving around the company on a cut spending now tour. the message from koch on the face of the biggest jobs crisis since the great depression is, don't try to fix it. if you're worried about jobs, hey, come work for koch. america shouldn't try to do anything to fix the economy or make jobs. if you're worried about jobs, we're hiring a few people. as we pointed out on you are blog last week, there are currently almost 21,000 unemployed or underemployed americans for everyone of those jobs listed on the koch industries website. almost 21,000 people say for

that one koch job in north dakota. we pointed this out on our blog last week. a couple of days ago, the pr department at koch industries tweeted us a link. so we followed that link and up pops this angry koch industry message about the rachel maddow show. they write our point from that blog post, appears to be that unless we offer enough job openings to everyone that is unemployed, any number of openings is objectionable. that would be a strange argument if in fact writ the one we were making. to help with their argument which spith they're bigger than us, which we already knew, koch also posted this animated map so you can see how many job openings koch industries is advertising versus how many msnbc is advertising. and obviously, koch industries has us outnumbered by a factor of like infinity. msnbc has not got even one job in north dakota. and koch industries does have that one job there. so touche, you got us.

you got us, multi-billion dollar corporation that laid off thousands of workers while its corporate overlords grew even more enormously wealthy and then they used their enormous resources to keep congress and t the president to create jobs if i had become blgs and billions richer while firing thousands and thousands and thousands of americans from their jobs and then i had decided to spend multimillion-dollar chunks of my fortune trying to make sure that teachers and firefighters would get laid off and stay laid off, if i was that kind of guy, if i was the kind of guy who minted gold dimes with my own head on them, if i was the kind of guy who wanted to take money out of my own pocket and see my own face looking back at me from the money, if i was that kind. guy, then maybe i would it was reasonable to say hey, if anybody is worried about unemployment, come work for me. and otherwise, stay unemployed. but even if i was the kind of guy who minted myself on to coins, even if i was that kind of billion eric i still cannot

imagine using my multi-billion dollar oil and chemical conglomerate to take shots. to take shots by name. any producer for this show who with 100% factual accuracy simply reported what you did. we got nothing wrong here. there's no factual allegation that we got anything wrong here. this was just a shot at me and specifically tarks member of my staff by name. charles koch, david koch, you are trying to intimidate the wrong people. this kind of thing is as pitiful from billionaires as it is from anyone. so i reiterate my many earlier invitations. come sit for an interview. i would love you have to. come sit for an interview and let's talk this out. rather than having daddy's company attack my producers one by one by name. feel free to man up any time. your beef is with me. so let's do this face to face right here any time. we would love to have you.