>> all right. one more. >> scott writes i'm up early googling number of confirmed kills for red sox fans. nothing yet. >> i think you're talking about this. forgive the need to see that again. but gadhafi was killed by a new york yankee fan. a 20-year-old kid wearing a yankee hat. we are the very best fans in the world. and we proved it yesterday. "morning joe" starts right now. is there no republican that can be gracious and statesman like in this situation? we removed a dictator in six months losing no american soldiers spending like $1 billion rather than $1 trillion and engendering good will to people that have a prideful story of their own independence to tell, not to mention loyal, they have oil. anybody want to give credit? >> let's give credit where credit is due. it's the french and british that

led on this fight. >> not the united states so much, but france and england. >> i especially appreciate the leadership of the british and french in this. >> what the [ bleep ] is wrong with you people? honestly. what? what is wrong with you? are you that small? we've got to give credit to the chinese. without the invention of gun powder. >> welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have mike barnicle. we have jon heileman. and we have katty kay joining us. what a week. >> what a week. >> what a week. >> what a week. >> a lot to talk about. are you surviving this morning? >> everything's great. never been better. never been better.

>> nothing to complain about? >> nothing to complain about. >> what are we going to talk about? >> let's talk baseball. rangers come back, two runs in the ninth inning. >> great games. >> these are great games. >> both so far have been great. takes me back to 1991. braves/twins. exactly. so we found out that it was the united states. that helped participate in the killing of gadhafi. and it looks like barack obama again, another big one for barack obama. >> yeah, i don't think you can argue with that. we're learning more about the united states. >> why would you suggest it when i brought -- why -- did you see the show yesterday? poor kevin mccarthy. >> kevin mccarthy is just fine.

if kevin mccarthy would've had a bad day, i would have started at the top. there was another republican on the show who got a huge pass on a similar issue. >> who's that? austan goolsbee? no, he's a democrat. >> i'm serious. >> the viewers would like to know. >> aren't we only allowed to have one republican every three weeks. >> it is -- hey, yes, it is -- >> power hour. >> that's what they're calling it now on twitter. the righties are calling this -- well, of course they called it at first the democratic hour of power. i've got to object your suggestion that we had more than one republican on. >> i thought mika was too nice to kevin mccarthy yesterday. >> mika's right.i=s kevin mccarthy -- >> he did. >> may as well have just handed him -- >> he made a couple of jokes out of oranges and apples, and next

thing you know he was at first base. you've got to hit him harder. >> what meacham wants, i mean, what heileman wants -- he wants kevin mccarthy to look like this at the end of the day. >> that's just wrong. >> you think that's cruel? let's get to the big news of the day. we are learning more about the role of the united states in the final moments of moammar gadhafi's life. it was as joe mentioned an american predator drone that spotted gadhafi's convoy trying to flee the city of sirte and opened fire preventing his escape. details of what happened between the air strike and gadhafi's capture and death still remain murky. yesterday president obama acknowledged it was the work of the coalition that helped topple the gadhafi regime. an effort that will end up costing about $1.5 billion.

>> we've got money, come on. >> well spent. >> yeah. with gadhafi gone, the focus returns to rebuilding libya politically and economically. and republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina -- >> i love this, i love this. i love this. >> who does he want to invade now? >> well, he's going to invade somebody else. but what i love is -- and i'm sorry to step on the joke, is that republicans are against investment in infrastructure unless you're investing in infrastructure outside of america. >> can't help himself. i was going to get there. it's all right. it's all right. gobble it all up. >> no, what did he say? what did he say? >> thank you. it is delicious, though, isn't it? i can see why you can't help -- here's lindsey. >> we can go over and help them build their infrastructure up. there are a lot of business opportunities in libya. the country's been ravaged. one of the problems i have of leading from behind is when a day like this comes, we don't have the infrastructure in place

that we could have. let's get in on the ground, there's a lot of money to be made in the future of libya. a lot of oil to be produced. let's get on the ground and help the libyan people establish a democracy and a functioning economy. >> yeah, let's rebuild another country. because you know what? $2 billion a week in afghanis n afghanistan, it's just not enough. let's spend $2 billion in libya. let's spend $2 billion -- because, you know, it's kind of like the '50s. we're so flush with money. seriously -- >> we're running out -- >> we're running massive surpluses. if we don't waste our money trying to rebuild other countries now, when would we do it? >> there's -- >> when would we do it? >> yes, there are so many different things about this. >> did you notice the same thing i did? there's also the similar problem that lindsey referenced that a lot of republicans seem to have. giving the president of the united states credit for this. >> thank you. thank you.

>> credit for this. >> there's a problem with leading behind. no, there was no problem here. we got him. >> thank you very much. leading from behind worked really well. unless your goal is to invade every muslim country on the face of the earth. >> there's also the element, which something about the day after. there's something about saying, now that he's dead, let's go in and make some money. let's go in there and profiteer as much as we can. it's kind of amusing -- >> see, a brooklyn hipster might be concerned with that. >> i don't mind it. >> i mind the united states taxpayers watching their schools crumble, watching their roads crumble, watching their bridges crumble, watching their airports crumble, watching r&d cut. and neo cons saying let's

rebuild other countries. >> let's be realistic, katty kay, libya is home to the largest oil reserves in africa and the ninth largest in the world. so thousand do we -- >> hold on. hold on, hold on. libya's in africa? really? because would somebody e-mail michele bauchmann? are you telling me seriously libya's in -- oh, wait a second, it's that big country at the top of africa. >> don't be mean. >> how do you not -- >> you got out of the bed at the wrong side this morning. >> how do you run for president of the united states and not know that libya is in africa? i'm just saying. >> katty, balance our interests here given what has happened. and deal with joe. >> and deal with joe at the same time? >> it can't be done. >> come on, mika, you're asking an awful lot at 6:00 in the morning. >> balance our interests in libya. >> i think you're quite right. this was an extraordinary example of how leading from behind can be effective. right on the last day, what did

we have? we had an american drone spotted the convoy, a french missile fired on the convoy. most importantly of all, it was libyan rebels who picked gadhafi up, right? so in the last 24 hours, seen a pretty muworking of how this system works. it was the libyans that took him in the end and it wasn't a drone or missile from a foreign power that killed him. and the republicans -- they're kind of falling over themselves when they can't give the president, i think, credit for this. whatever you think about whether the nato mission should've taken place, whether it was worth american involvement and a relatively sum of $1.5 billion to be involved in the nato mission on the day that gadhafi falls, you have to give the white house and the coalition and nato credit for it. >> and by the way, willie, just to be straight here. the leading republican candidate yesterday, if you discount

herman cain, which you should, mitt romney, said it repeatedly. which was, oh, yeah, yeah, sure he deserves credit. that's the right answer. bill clinton would do that. if republicans did something that was obviously right, he was smart enough to say, oh, i give the republicans all the credit in the world. didn't cost him anything. >> some people can't bring themselves to do it. remember, when osama bin laden, the poster child, well, some said, well, the bush administration, it was george bush and dick cheney. >> not being able to say wrong. >> they can't let the words pass their lips that president obama did something right. i want to know how senator graham could watch the last decade of money and lives lost and say, you know what? we ought to go in and do that again. how can a united states senator sit and say that with a straight face? >> i don't know how -- and i've known lindsey for a long time. i like him personally. i don't know how lindsey graham and john mccain and joe liberman

who basically run foreign policy in the united states senate -- and i've talked to senator mccain about it. i have great respect for him. i don't know how you have that position in 2011. we have exhausted our military. it is stretched to the limits. we are running $2 billion in debt per week in afghanistan. and it seems like they want to expand america's footprint across the globe. again, with the united states of america i.1e crumbling. this is not a conservative position. the conservative position would be show restraint abroad, show restraint government at home, and, yeah, rebuild your country, invest in america. america first. and, of course, when you start talking that way, though, the far left calls you an isolationist. but i think 90% of americans

would much rather us invest in, you know, america than libya or afghanistan or yemen or all the other countries where we're just wasting billions and billions of dollars. >> but joe -- >> i have mcgovern in my mind. come home, america. >> so the left did it too. >> thad be a good slogan for you. >> katty kay? >> joe, look, there are shades of gray here, right? we're not talking about going into libya and nation building. nobody is doing that. but isn't that -- >> well, actually, lindsey graham is saying that. >> he's talking about infrastructure. who knows -- >> and investing and making money off of oil, which is fine. >> if you want to put america first, there are arguments to be made that you also want libya to become an america-friendly country in that region of the world, right? >> and it is. >> and you could do that with some technical assistance in -- this country has no government.

it had gadhafi for the last 42 years. it does need, you know, courts that function. it needs rule of law, it needs an oil industry that can export in a non-correct manner. you can do that for very small sums of money. and that's not nation building, that's in america's interest. >> they ma be preventive work that has to be done in the wake of gadhafi. >> i've always said in countries like libya, the united states should participate if it's part of a broad, international coalition. listen, we made a mistake as a country. i made a mistake supporting a war in iraq in 2003 without waiting for the rest of the international community to get onboard. we have learned our lesson. 75% of americans supported iraq, supported afghanistan. we have -- most americans have learned our lessons. the united states can't shove democracy down other people's throats at the end of a gun. so, yes, if it's part of an

international coalition where we're not paying the load, where it's not all of our young men and women who are dying, that's fine. but that's not the model that lindsey graham and neo cons in the senate want to push. they want the united states firing all the missiles. they want the united states having boots on the ground first. they want them taking the oil. it's just not the way the 21st century's going to be won. >> i completely agree. no one wants iraq ever again. and probably not afghanistan. and if america totally washes its hands now of libya having invested -- >> i'm not saying that. >> you may not reap the benefits of what you've done so far. >> i'm not saying we completely wash of our hands of any country. >> the other side of it is like the criminal side, the other side of this equation, that you were pointing out. how you can possibly stand up and say those things and then deny the president's agenda, what should be the agenda of both parties to fix the broken

infrastructure of america. that's the part -- i don't understand what -- how republicans put themselves in that position. there's no conservative economics that i understand that doesn't think there's a role for government in doing the things that the private economy will not do. building bridges, fixing roads, you know, getting our physical plant in order. and the country is falling apart at the seams and no republicans willing to stand up and say, hey, this is not a partisan issue. we must have an up to date 21st century infrastructure if we're going to have a 21st century economy. >> thank you for refocusing us. because it wasn't about libya. we brought this up because, again -- >> the inconsistency. >> the inconsistency of wanting to rebuild libya, but always being out there fighting against investment in new roads, new schools, new bridges, new airports. basically r & d, the very things the chinese are doing. >> i don't know what else lindsey graham said, but it's a more complicated concept and

statement than we just need to rebuild there. hillary clinton is in pakistan at this point. but i want to show some video of her in kabul as the news about -- >> is she making trouble again? >> no, it's just interesting. this is kind of one of those moments you don't get to see usually behind the scenes, where it came over her blackberry that gadhafi had been captured. and you can see her reaction here. let's roll it. >> wow. huh. >> unconfirmed. >> unconfirmed, yeah. no. unconfirmed reports about gadhafi being captured. >> oh, really? >> unconfirmed. yeah. we've had too many -- we've had a bunch of those before. we've had him captured a couple of times. >> someone's going to get in some trouble. >> who is? >> well, that kind of raw footage -- the state department does not like when that raw

footage starts floating around. >> anyhow, moving on, though, to more hillary clinton news. >> by the way, we did add it after she said wow and threw her blackberry down and said this is going to make my 2012 run a little more difficult. so we did edit that part out. >> she's in pakistan, it's her third country in the arab world this week. she's joined by cia director general david petraeus, and delivering a stark warning to pakistan saying the u.s. will act unilaterally if necessary to combat terrorism. at a town hall meeting yesterday, clinton pushed for the pakistani government to use its influence to bring the terrorist organization to the table. earlier at the news conference, clinton spoke on america's strategic relationship with pakistan. >> we're trying to increase our efforts on the afghan side of @1 the border, and we're working with our pakistani partners to explore the ways that we can

squeeze them. we think that we can do more to appeal to the pakistani people. to report suspicious activity, to work with their law enforcement personnel so that we can begin to deny safe haven on both sides of the border. that is our mutual goal. >> the foreign minister responded saying militants' safe havens existed on both of the border, and pakistan provides no support. and also we have her official response to the death of gadhafi once that was confirmed. the secretary of state calling it "a new era for libya." other news now to washington. late last night, democrats and republicans both fell short of the 60 votes needed to bring their rivalling jobs bills to the senate floor. in a 50/50 vote, senators blocked part of president obama's jobs plan, which included $35 billion for states and cities to retain and rehire teachers, police officers, and first responders.

funding for the proposal would come through a tax increase of .5% for people earning more than $1 million a year. this marks the first attempt by senate democrats to move pieces of the president's jobs act that was defeated by the senate -- by a filibuster last week. the president called the vote last night unacceptable. in a statement he said in part, " for the second time in two weeks every single republican in the u.s. senate has chosen to obstruct a bill that would create jobs and get our economy going again." and on that note, biden is in a bit of a controversy about remarks he made. >> some are saying are inciting fear. >> joe is locked down, what are you talking about? >> you want to go there before we go to break? >> sure, i'd love to. are you saying joe talked off the top of his head? >> i really like this, actually. maybe you won't. republicans were singling out vice president joe biden for comments that he made wednesday claiming public safety could be at risk if the jobs bill is not

passed. >> police departments, as i said in some cases, literally cut in half like camden, new jersey, and flint, michigan. in many cities, the result has been and it's not unique, murder rates are up, robberies are up, rapes are up. >> there's a more emotional sound bite. i've been looking for that for two days. >> it's closer to him saying pass this bill or you'll be -- i don't have the words exactly. >> calling the remarks "over the top." >> the vice president is attempting to use fear tactics on the american people. and really to me shows a sign of desperation of the vice president and of this administration because they realize that their policies have failed the american people. they inherited a bad situation and they have made it worse.

>> here comes the real joe biden at an event wednesday. biden was confronted by a human events reporter and forced to defend his statements. take a listen. >> do you regret using a rape reference to describe republican opposition to the president's bill? >> no, no, no -- what i said. let's get it straight, guys. don't screw around with me. >> you didn't use a rape reference? >> no, listen to me. i said rape was up three times in flint. there are the numbers, go look at the numbers. and murder, rape is up, and burglary's up. that's exactly what i said. >> and if republicans don't pass this bill, rape will continue to rise. >> murder will continue to rise, rape will continue to rise, all crimes will continue to rise. >> anyone have a problem with that? >> no, none. it's true. >> i wish i've seen more of that, actually. >> that's demagoguery, and you know it. >> it's true. >> come on. >> pass our bill or your wife's going to get raped? >> walk a big city street. >> that's not what he said, joe.

>> of course that's what he said. >> he said if you continue to cut police department personnel, if police departments continue to shrink, if fire departments continue to shrink, then you're going to have an issue with public safety. on the police side, if you continue to cut gang units, anti-crime units, you are going to have more rapes in some neighborhoods, more murders in some neighborhoods. crime is going to go up. >> i wish he had this argument a long time ago. >> the problem is when he had the press conference, he was doing it in front of public unions. if you want to ask cory booker of newark, new jersey, whose fault it is that newark is a safer place today, he's going to say -- he has saidíb]ñ it befor the mayor of new jersey will say it again. the fact of the matter is, guess what? the economy is down. so what does that mean? there's less money coming in to newark, camden, hold on a second, and the fact is that

there are some unions that have stood up like cory booker and said, you know what? just fire us, we're not going to give up any concessions. and again, i'm not saying this, cory booker and other mayors are saying this, that there's a time when everybody needs to pitch in. and a lot of public unions aren't coming to the table on this. >> you'll get no argument from me on a city-to-city basis that union behavior varies. some cities, the unions are totally abstinent. but if you went to cory booker and said, mr. mayor, we know you have the union problems, but how would you like more federal money to hire more police officers? i think his answer would be yes. >> why didn't we just do that with gm? why didn't we do that with detroit and just say, you know what? you guys keep running your companies the way you're going to run your companies, and we're going to go ahead and flood you with money. because that's the same thing that's happening here. >> because public safety wasn't an issue there.

they're categorically -- >> you can't always hide behind public safety. hold on a second! are you saying that police and firefighters and teachers shouldn't pay anything into their health benefits? >> no, no one's saying that. >> that is connected! so connected! >> these problems simultaneously. right now we have a down economy and the vice president's making a very simple point. he's saying, you know, there are a whole bunch of problems. if you want to fix the tax code, there's a whole lot of issues here. right now the economy's in the tank, there's an issue with funding fundamental vital services in cities across the country. if we don't fund them properly, more people will die. more people will suffer. >> hold on. >> first of all, you watch this show, you're on this show enough to know i understand that. and i'm the one that talks about investing. all i'm trying to say is, it's not as simple as saying vote for our bill or you want your children to get raped. i mean, all i'm saying is it's not that simple. there are two sides to this story.

and i just thought -- and i think willie, you thought, that language was a bit over the top. and it's never quite that simple. and barnicle, you're smirking. so you know it was demagoguery. even though i respect you for holding up your side of the position. do you understand, john? >> i do, but it's justifiable on the facts just as it was justifiable back when democrats said when we continue to leave 35 million uninsured in this country, weapon don't fix health care, more people will die. it's all true. it's true. >> look at barnicle. you know it was pure demagog demagoguery. would i have voted to fund teachers, to fund the firefighters -- yes. but i'm not going to let joe as much as we love him get away with that. >> who is for firing cops and firefighters? no one. but let me read a quote that joe biden uttered on tuesday in philadelphia roughering to republicans. they should know what it's like to have a 200-pound man standing over you telling you to submit. >> okay. >> we hadn't seen that video.

>> he's made his point, and he can get -- >> i'm standing down. >> we still have jill. we still love him. >> that was a bridge too far. >> coming up, we're going to bring in moderator of "meet the press," david gregory, eugene robinson, carl bernstein, and reverend al sharpton. first, here is a man who has had that experience -- >> oh, no! >> bill, is that how you got poison ivy? >> oh, stop. i'm about 170, standing above all you. so be careful. >> oh, my. temperatures this morning are a little chilly, we are watching a very beautiful weekend forecast coming your way. tonight starts the day in many areas of the country. dallas looks good, orlando, and through your weekend forecast,

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almost 30 past the hour. let's take a look now at the morning papers. we'll start with the business section of the "new york times." the headline says newscorp shareholders are set to take murdoch to -- expected to be the most contentious in years with investors expected to demand accountability for the phone-hacking scandal. the "miami herald" says this weekend's dolphins/broncos game in florida is becoming a side show with tim tebow stealing the spotlight. the florida gators' 2008 national championship team are going to be honored at halftime. that team, of course, was led by

a young man who, well, would change your life if you spent five minutes with him. >> all right. >> the great tim tebow. who by the way, willie, i'm pulling for in the nfl. i'm excited for him. he's a great kid. and he's a fighter. >> it was never his fault that adults were fawning over him. he's a great player and a great kid. >> and a great, great leader. not great in practice, but you put him in a tough game, and the guy's going to fight like hell to win. win, winning, he's a winner. >> let's go to connecticut where some moms groups are upset over a new ben and jerry's ice cream flavor that was inspired by a saturday night live skit with alec baldwin. >> what was it called, mika? >> the limited edition flavor which features rum, just rum, has also been pulled from some store shelves. >> rum balls. >> it has become the most popular new edition flavor ever

produced. >> come on, say it. you can say it. it's not against the rules. >> you guys -- >> schweaty balls. >> schw -- >> his last name was schwetty, and he made holiday -- >> why would anybody think that's tasteless? >> what i want to know -- >> i don't get it. >> what's the problem? and in sunday's parade of -- look "parade" magazine on sunday, rick perry kicks off "parade's" meet the candidate series. they're doing an incredible -- that's an incredible josh brolin. true words. >> you've done it again. >> he's a good-looking rascal. three words, good looking rascal. >> why is he stripping his jacket off? >> the question is, if -- >> why is he pulling it off? >> if you look at the seal of

certain states, you don't know whether the sun's rising or falling. here, you can't tell if he's putting the coat on or taking it off. is he coming or going? i will tell you, he is a good-looking rascal. says bill -- i agree. >> hash tag glr. >> okay. >> all right. that was an interesting "parade." let's go to politico. patrick gavin -- >> he's a good-looking rascal. >> patrick? how you doing, man? >> i'm good. i'm good. >> oh, my. >> back in his home library for us again today. >> i've got to prepare for this show somehow. it takes a lot of hours, a lot of reading. >> you've been up for hours working on this hit right here. let's talk about it then. politico reporting that president obama may be dragging down some democrats, keeping a senate majority in 2012 as a tough thing for democrats to grab. >> you look at 2008, president

barack obama helped bring -- helped the democrats gain nine seats in 2008 and the majority. this year when you look at the 23 races that democrats have to defend in every single major one of those. when there's a senate and democratic incumbent, that incumbent is pulling higher and much higher in some cases than barack obama. putting distance between themselves and the president. you see the democratic senatorial campaign, running $700,000 in ads this early in the race is fairly unprecedented pointing out how independent he is in the senate. a turnout in the economy, and the president has plenty of money he can help with those candidates. but as of right now, you -- i don't think you'll see a lot of those democratic incumbents asking for obama for a lot of help unless those poll numbers in their states really pick up. >> weapon even saw some of this on the bus tour this week in north carolina and virginia. some of the congressmen didn't come out to appear with the

president. >> thanks so much, patrick. >> thank you, guys. see ya. coming up, the st. louis cardinals were three outs away from going up two games to one. a great ninth inning finish. highlights are next. ♪ oh, beautiful ♪ for spacious skies ♪ ♪ for amber waves of grain ♪ ♪ for purple mountain [ male announcer ] for the first 100 years and for generations to come, thanks for making us a part of your life. ♪ whoa it's real milk full of calcium and vitamin d. and tastes simply delicious. for those of us with lactose intolerance... lactaid® milk. the original 100% lactose-free milk.

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time for some sports. game two of the world series

last night. game one, a 3-2 pitchers duel, and more great pitching in game two last night. rangers flashing some leather. elvis, beautiful flip, and then the bare hand from kinsler turns the double play. very next inning, watch this play, robs with the glove, flips with the glove. forceout ends the inning. defense kept the game scoreless in the seventh. but in the seventh, the hero of game one comes through again. craig, an rbi singles, cardinals jump out to a 1-0 lead. all they needed were three outs, but the rangers piece something together. ian kinsler somehow drops this thing into left field, that's a base hit. then you don't steal easily on melina. he's on second base, moved over to third, and then josh hamilton does his job of sack fly ties the game.

elvis anders, smartly tagging up going to third, by the way. michael young hits a sack fly, andrews scores from third, the rangers put together a ninth-inning comeback. beat the cardinals 2-1. the series tied at a game apiece, series two tomorrow in arlington, texas. >> how about those rangers, man? it's a great series. >> looked like it was going to be over. they had three outs with their closer. >> isn't it exciting to see -- we've been talking about the red sox and you hear a lot of abuse. just great seeing teams like this fighting and scrapping. it's great to see nolan ryan, such a class act. >> and especially those guys, making the world series last year after never having made it. they got beat last year and now they're back this year getting another chance. >> and i love the rangers. they're a great story and organization. >> and the cardinals were totally written off less than two months ago. >> very exciting. here's a story. it's sure to be proven dubious

sometime later this morning. front page of the "new york post," gadhafi killed by yankee fan. 20-year-old kid wearing a new york yankees at. >> but the subh has the best part. >> gunman has more hits than a-rod. >> got to love the "new york post." >> they wouldn't have caught him if they were red sox. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." look at that pretty shot over washington, d.c. as the sun comes up over washington. time now for the must-read opinion pages. >> we have a question, and the question is, we're talking about the great atlanta braves of 1991, three hall of fame pitchers on there. and the question is -- >> has there ever been another major league pitching staff with three hall of famers on it? >> and just to be clear, obviously these three are not in the hall of fame yet, but --

>> they're shoo-ins. >> the question is -- >> and by the way, if heaavery t pitching like he was pitching in '91, he would have been in the hall of fame. time now for the must-read opinion pages. "washington post," i'm going to start with eugene robinson. cain said repeatedly that his proposed fence would be electrified, then said those remarks were in jest. he said it might be electrified after all. sorry for the digression, i'm just trying to keep up. what's no joking matter is to the extent that the republican candidates deal at all with international affairs, it tends to be in a way that is shockingly vapid and unsophisticated. it is likely that domestic issues, especially the perilous state of the economy will dominate the election. one or more foreign crises will likely arise between now and election day. and the contrast can only work

in president obama's favor. >> i think it's a bit of an oversimplification, saying all republican candidates, but cain has a problem, and katty, new problems coming out in iowa. cain has botched abortion, the issue of whether he's pro-life or pro-choice. and the iowa republicans are now starting to count these things up. whether it was the other night releasing all the prisoners in gitmo. it's only a matter of time before herman cain's candidacy goes up in smoke, is it not? >> you know, you always sounded like a little bit of the flavor of the month as he himself said. and you wondered whether this was -- we had michele bauchmann, we had rick perry, herman cain, and it's hard to see herman cain having the longevity of rick perry at this moment. which is giving this opening to mitt romney, it seems, in iowa. his campaign now seems to be looking at the state and thinking, okay, it's not a naturally friendly place for us, but perhaps with everybody else on the conservative side of the republican field so split and

continuing to be split, who knows? we could put a lot of money into that state a week or two before the campaign and do better or at least have some sort of placing in a way people hadn't expected. all right. the wall street jury room, this is by gene spurling. the president's proposal to cut payroll taxes closely resembles a provision included last year in the economic freedom act put forward by 50 house republicans, including michele bauchmann and jeb hensarling. it cannot be the case in a serious economic moment like this that good ideas are transformed into bad ideas solely because president obama supports them. our economy cannot afford republicans to both say no to the american jobs act and have no meaningful alternative. the moment is too serious, the stakes are too high. >> katty, has it gotten to a point where the republicans are opposing this obama plan simply because it's an obama plan? >> you know, it's starting to sound like that.

isn't it, joe? i mean, when you look at the amount of republican proposals that have been in the jobs bill and the deficit-cutting bill. these are things that republicans had individually or supported earlier. and now even those elements that they'd supported earlier, they're voting against. i mean, you know, i do -- i agree with gene sperling, the country is facing an incredibly critical moment. and the one thing that america cannot afford at the moment is inaction. there has to be some sort of collective action, and the public is saying this. the numbers show that the public wants their politicians on both sides, on the republican side and the democratic side to compromise in order to get some kind of growth stimulus program going into the economy. and here we have politicians from the republican side saying we can't support things we had earlier supported. it doesn't make any sense. >> i think he might be caught on that point. if anyone's listening, really looking. >> no, i was going to say -- and on the herman cain front, we're going to get excerpts from

republicans in iowa this morning who are saying that he's -- they're saying he's obviously ill-equipped to be president because he just keeps making these statements, the electric fence, he comes back and gitmo he falls back, abortion he says something, he comes back. he's always talking about how he's being misunderstood. and as one radio host out there says, if he can't handle cnn hosts, how is he going to handle foreign leaders? >> there you go. we'll be right back with willie's weekend review. i'm not a number.

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oh, tell me it's time. it's been a long week, willie. >> time for a special edition of "the news you can't use." >> special? >> special? >> that's different. ♪ i don't want to be friends >> at number three, gaga for baba. >> bill, i'm having my first real marilyn moment. >> it wasn't quite happy birthday, mr. president. but lady gaga serenaded bill clinton at the anniversary of his foundation with a variation on her song "bad romance." >> i just thought we all would get caught up in a little "bill romance."

♪ caught in a bill romance >> gaga dressed in a flesh tone number, which at least wasn't made out of deli meats, set up shop right there in front of the former president as the current secretary of state clapped along intensely. >> i am the only person in history who then had a post presidential birthday party attended by both lady gaga and the secretary of state. >> at number two, back on the bus. >> i've got a pretty nice ride, it's not your normal rv. >> president obama hopped on his $1 million bus this week and took a spin through north carolina and virginia where he fought accusations that he was merely out campaigning for reelection. his vice president, meanwhile, went ahead and confirmed those accusations. >> people say we're campaigning, we sure in heck are campaigning. >> the man who was campaigning against barack obama this time

three years ago didn't much care for the president's sleek set of wheels. >> and i've never seen an uglier bus than the canadian one he's traveling around on a canadian bus touting american jobs. >> the only people less enthusiastic than senator mccain about the president's trip were the folks at this stop on the swing state tour. >> i sent to congress the american jobs act. it's a jobs bill -- >> and the number one story of the week. >> tonight, gadhafi is dead. the dictator who ruled for 42 years is gone. >> sure, one of the world's worst dictators was killed this week after 42 years in power. but did you see the real housewife style slap fight at the debate? >> you knew you had illegals working -- >> are you going to keep talking? >> mitt romney and rick perry clawed at each other during the republican debate in las vegas. but the king of that glittering town threw every ounce of his

dye, bleach, and botox behind another candidate. >> i will support this beautiful lady as long as she wants to go. >> thank you. >> herman cain spent another week in the headlines with his produce-based economic plan. >> this is an example of mixing apples and oranges. the state tax is an apple. we are replacing the current tax code with oranges. >> with his high-voltage border fence proposal. >> 20 feet high with barbed wire. electrified. with a sign on the other side that says, it can kill you. >> and with his grasp of foreign policy. that somehow came up in hillary clinton's meeting with hamid karzai. >> how mr. cain said, i don't even know the presidents of all of these countries like whatever -- >> stans and -- >> yeah. >> sure, you can mock some of

the man's policy ideas, but as we were reminded again this week with the unearthing of a 20-year-old piece of video, herman cain can flat out sing. especially about pizza. ♪ imagine there's no pizza ♪ i couldn't if i tried >> beautiful. beautiful pipes. >> that goes down smooth. >> almost enough to make you forget about the electrified fence and the u-becky-stan-stan. 1954 indians, three hall of famers, early win, bob feler, bob lemon. the dodgers of the '60s, colfax and sutton. coming up in the next hour, carl bernstein and eugene robinson. keep it here on "morning joe." i. get married?

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it's not temporary when that 911 call comes in and a woman's being raped and the cop shows up in time to prevent the rape. it's not temporary for that woman. it's not temporary to the guy who has a gun pointed at his head. if a cop shows up and he's not killed. that's not temporary! >> do you regret using a rape reference to describe republican opposition to the president's bill? >> no, no, no. what i said -- let's get it straight, guys.

>> you didn't use a rape reference? >> listen to me -- >> i'm listening. >> i said rape was up three times in flint. there are the numbers, go look at the numbers. murder's up, rape's up, and burglary's up. that's what i said. >> and if the republicans don't pass this bill, then rape will continue to rise. >> murder will continue to rise, rape will continue to rise, all crimes will continue to rise. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and john heilemann are still with us, along with katty kay in washington. best-selling author and award-winni inning journalist c bern bernstein is with us. >> the jobs bill, though, last night, voted down in the senate. republicans couldn't pass their version, democrats couldn't pass their version. more gridlock. we're following something right now. we talked about it a little bit last hour. herman cain once again slipping up. and this is very important, john

heilemann, especially on the issue of abortion. because, whoops, he did it again, herman cain says something on tv and then says he misunderstood the question. this time, again, critical for the caucuses in iowa because of the issue. >> yes. i mean, he was asked -- he was in a conversation with piers morgan in which he expressed the view. he said that he was personally against abortion, but that he -- he said i can have an opinion on this issue without being a directive to the nation. the government shouldn't be telling people everything to do. which is essentially a pro-choice position. i'm personally pro-life, but i would not have the government try to regulate this. and for social conservatives who, a, think the government should be trying to prevent abortions, and b, feel burned by successive conservative politicians in the past who have said they were pro-life but then did nothing about it in office, this is a big flashing warning signal about what herman cain believes on the critical issue.

>> we have that sound bite. here it is on piers. >> i believe that life begins at conception and abortion under no circumstances -- it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big of a number. what i'm saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or mother has to make. not me as president. >> that is such a pro-choice position. who does that sound like? >> it's the mario cuomo, teddy kennedy position. and it's absolutely correct, actually. it's just the problem is that nobody in a republican party has been willing to say that. >> well, it's absolutely correct if you're carl bernstein and you live in new york city. >> no. >> no, no, no -- if you're a republican conservative that is an evangelical that decides who

wins iowa caucuses, that is not the correct position. >> what i'm trying to say that our politics has been overwhelmed by this issue by far too long. we've got huge problems in this country. >> no doubt about it. >> and the idea that our debate is still going on over abortion, and this is the great issue in this one party is absurd -- >> i don't think it is. i think you're oversimplifying it. i do think in iowa, though. >> you're absolutely right. but the question is, what does that do to our politics when that becomes the primary issue for one party? >> the same thing it does for the democratic party, which is actually less, i think, less giving on the issue of abortion than the republican party. you will not see a lot of pro-life speakers. >> you're absolutely right about that. >> you're right. >> it's back to the question of why is this an issue? it's ridiculous. >> you talk about being overwhelmed. overwhelming our politics. mike barnicle, herman cain's about to be overwhelmed by this clip where, again, he once again

says something and tries to back off of it. saying he misunderstood it. >> he's going to be overwhelmed in iowa, certainly. but this is just one issue where he goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. and it begs the question, how difficult a position of are the republicans in that this guy is practically -- >> i want to play this clip again because we're then going to talk about him trying to back off of it yesterday. i want us to -- this is clear of a pro-choice position as i think i've ever heard. roll the tape. >> i believe that life begins at conception. and abortion under no circumstances -- it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big of a number. so what i'm saying is, it ultimately gets down to a choice

that that family or mother has to make. not me as president. >> he says it gets down to a choice. and also he says something he can't back off of where he says it's not really that big of a deal. because if you look at the numbers, there aren't that many abortions. that is not what pro-life activists say day in and day out. and so iowa republicans are now, mr. heilemann, starting to talk about his disturbing pattern. craig robinson says this. if he can't comprehend the questions he's being asked by cnn personalities, how is he going to hold up against foreign leaders who are hostile to america? how does he back off saying i am pro choice after he gets in trouble? >> let me just say as to further build the record. on fox news, being interviewed, he said i'm pro-life from conception. are there any cases where it should be legal? and cain's response was, i don't think government should make that decision. this is not just the piers morgan interview. this is another interview where

he said the same thing. >> i'm perm ll lly personally pro-life, but -- >> the next day he's saying when asked to clarify it on the piers morgan thing. he says, i understood the thrust of the question to ask if i as president would "order people not to seek abortion." that's clearly not the question clearly doesn't go to the issue. >> he's pro-choice. >> so to your question, the reason this matters, it matters with iowa cultural conservatives for the abortion reason. >> which is the state he has the best chance of winning. >> but it matters more broadly because it is again getting to the question that every republican voter whether they're strongly pro-life or not are asking themselves, is this guy capable of being president or not? >> you look at the delicate dance president obama is doing right now with the gadhafi situation and everything else and think of this guy. hello, why are we even talking about him? >> and as he keeps stumbling and having to backtrack, you know,

he can't understand a question from piers morgan, how can he be president of the united states? that's going to matter, not just in iowa, not just conservatives, all republicans. >> how many instances have we had in the past week where this guy has said something on electric fence, or abortion, or a variety of other things. they keep rising. gitmo, oh, he just didn't understand the question. he's making it up as he goes along and it's starting to blow up in his face. >> the strength of his candidacy is that he's spoken almost exclusively about the most important issue of this election, which is about jobs and the economy, right? that's what he's built his platform on. and i think he felt if he had the message right, the 9-9-9 catchy phrase right on that one issue, then in a way he could ignore the other issues. and what we've discovered in the last couple of weeks is that you have to have a full spectrum of policies if you want to be

president of the united states. it's not enough to say i am strong on the economy and jobs, you also do have to be able to deal with immigration, the stands, and you know, foreign policy, and -- >> releasing every terrorist in gitmo -- you can't just say 9-9-9 and then be asked would you release every prison in gitmo? >> there's no depth apart from his tax policy, and even that kind of is a little bit confusing. but, you know, he built this case of saying even more than mitt romney, i am exclusively going to be the guy that focuses on jobs in the economy. well, you can't be president of this country when there are going to be foreign policy crises that you have to deal with. and you also have to have, you've got to have a strong social platform that makes sense to your -- to the base of your party. hep doesn't have either. >> you've got to be at least consistent. but katty, i think you're mixing apples and oranges. >> i can't i have a banana in

there too? >> with mitt romney's fruit basket. he had apples and oranges the other night, as well. but john evangelicals and the members of the tea party, there's a lot of overlap there. those people, the grass roots matter a lot in iowa, and they are looking for not just that one issue, but that's part of what matters to them. >> he's pro-choice? >> he's pro-choice. >> there's no doubt if you look at his statements in the past. and remember, this is a state

that put pat robinson ahead of george h.w. bush back in 1988. they're a state that voted for mike huckabee. these caucuses are run by social conservatives, mika, that's why it's going to have a big impact. let's move on to washington. and we'll get to that other story after this. late last night, democrats and republicans fell short of the 60 votes needed to bring their rivalling jobs bill to the senate floor. in a 50/50 vote, senators blocked part of president obama's jobs plan, which included $30 billion for states to retain and rehire teachers, police officers, and first responders. funding for the proposal would come through a tax increase of .5% for people earning more than $1 million a year. this marks the first attempt by senate democrats to move pieces of the american jobs act that was defeated by a senate filibuster last week. the president called the vote last night unacceptable and in a statement he said in part, "for the second time in two weeks,

every single republican in the u.s. senate has chosen to obstruct a bill that would create jobs and get our economy going again." >> carl, you talked about this for several years, how congress is dysfunctional, democrats tried to pass their jobs bill, it's voted down, not allowed to be voted on. republicans try to do the same thing, not allowed to be voted on. it is pure stalemate at a time of national crisis. >> first of all, obama knew that bill couldn't pass when he formulated it. and at the same time, the substance of the bill is back to doing what the country needs to do. but meanwhile, you have these 12 -- so-called gang of 12 with all this power, that the president of the united states right now has an opportunity to get up, go to the country, and say all right, you 12, let's come up with $4 trillion in savings and new tax plan before the election. let's really go to the country, lest you and i, republicans and democrats embrace this concept. let's make it an issue that nobody can duck.

and we'll fix our country's problems. >> wait, wait, wait -- what do you mean this super committee that the senate can't handle this. that there are institutions that can't handle it, so they create a super committee inside. >> kick the can. >> a constitutionally -- >> it's an admission that the congress of the united states is morally and politically bankrupt and incapable of governing this country. >> mike, is that your -- >> one branch of the government is totally broken. >> mike, what do you think? >> my take on it is is that nearly everyone in the senate and the top leadership of the house, they are playing a dangerously cynical game amongst themselves while people are suffering in this country. i think the democrats are well aware that the republicans have told them repeatedly, we're doing nothing for you this year. we're trying to defeat the president of the united states, we're not going to give him anything. and people are unemployed from coast to coast, and it's a

corrupt, cynical, political game being played at the top of the pyramid of american politics. it's shameful. >> that's why the president should challenge him and say, okay, here's $4 trillion, and do it. >> when you talk about people being unemployed coast to coast and look at what's happening across the globe, not just wall street, how can you not take what the vice president said somewhat seriously? whether you call it demagoguery or not. aren't we at a critical point where the situation is getting desperate in this country, and we are going to have more violence, and we are going to have more problems? and i say that very seriously and very gravely with no political push on one side or the other, that something that has to be done. why can't somebody say that? >> well, you can -- you can -- there are a lot of different ways to say that. i think the suggestion is, you don't say if the republican bill, if the republicans don't pass my bill, you're going to have a 200-pound man standing

over you and forcing you to submit. that is colorful language to say the least. >> it is, but do you see the bigger picture and issue we have to confront. >> sure. >> increased crime, and desperate situations in the streets of this country. >> and if that is important to the president of the united states, then he needs to formulate a bill that shames the republicans into voting for the bill instead of a bill as carl said that he knew from the very beginning wasn't going to pass. >> he's going to run against the republicans on jobs with good reason. and it's because of what they did here and, of course, the republicans are almost out of conscience on this. >> the president knew when he formulated this bill -- >> absolutely. >> when the president formulated this bill, he knew the republicans weren't going to vote for it. we had chuck todd saying it from day one, this is a political device. john heilemann, what if the president comes forward with a

bill and says this is what you guys want. we're going to do significant entitlement reforms. we're going to save trillions of dollars over the next generation, and this is what i want in return. i want spending for infrastructure, for education, for r & d, and for the truly disadvantaged. and guess what? over a generation, this actually makes america money. can republicans say -- well, they can say no to that. >> yes, they could, and they did. the president talked to john boehner about the grand bargain in the context of the debt ceiling thing was six months ago. and a lot of republicans wanted to play that game, but there are enough republicans who absolutely won't make a deal with the president. what did he put on the table? >> i believe you'd have to ask john boehner that. you're right, there was no bill, no legislation. but even republicans don't deny there was a discussion on the principles of making changes in terms of the retirement age, in

terms of cost of living increases. they talked about those things, not in a framework thing, and boehner was onboard. >> do you keep talking about that if you're the president? i'm just asking questions. at this point, you say i give up and i'm going to put a political bill on the floor and just hammer them over the head for the next year. or do you keep trying? i would love for the president to go to the american people saying this is how i'm going to reform social security. this is how i'm going to save medicare. this is how i'm going to save our country over the next generation. and this is what i want. i would love to hear that from the president. >> the white house is making a different political calculation than the one you're suggesting you want to hear. >> am i naive. >> you're just not the voter they're trying to stir up. they put out a plan that's driven to being a more populist approach to drive their base. right now, that is where they are politically. >> i saw mike in an aarp commercial talking about this.

i saw an aarp commercial with citizens walking down the street. saying, oh, no, we're 65 million strong, don't touch our medicare. really? really? that's like telling somebody walking towards a cliff, don't tell me to divert, i'm walking toward a cliff, and you can't stop me. >> i'm over 65, and that's an offensive commercial. >> is it not -- >> it's truly offensive. >> and they run it during this show -- >> it is gross and wrong. it's like tom coburn said the other day and i think we can agree. medicare and social security, mike, cease to exist five years from now. >> we've got to raise the age on eligibility to begin with. >> i ask mike a question, you're so rude. just because he's a man. >> get in here, mike. >> no, it's because it's me. >> actually, that's it. >> mika doesn't like anybody over 65. >> to john's point and to the question you asked, i don't understand why the president of the united states in running for reelection doesn't behave the

way bill collectors do in this country with people. they've done them every day over the phone. why doesn't he every day go to bat and say, every day i'm going to do this. i'm going to put a bill up there every day. >> i love it. i think he should. hammer the republicans every day. but talk about social security, medicare, the big issues. tax reform. >> he had the opportunity when bowles/simpson first came up last december. >> absolutely -- >> because they went to the party base in both parties. >> you shouldn't have passed on simpson/bowles. when we come back, the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." the whole family up for unlimited mobile to mobile minutes. you're kidding. no.

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so washington... before you even think about cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪

now with the president, he

put us in libya. he is now putting us in africa. we already were stretched too thin. and he put our special operations forces in africa. >> all right. >> so we put them in libya and africa. >> two different continents. >> talking about apples, oranges, and bananas. >> no, if you think about it -- where are we going to put our troops next? on the border of the mediterranean? this is dangerous stuff. >> do you think she ever met rand mcnally? >> no, i don't think she knows rand. >> rand? >> the map maker. >> i know. joining us now from washington, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. also with us, associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. >> gene is mean to the republican party today. >> he is. >> i don't understand it. why does he hate when loving would be so much easier? why do you bring up such uncomfortable subjects? >> because it's a painful

reality that could change the course of -- >> i don't know who the president of u-becky-becky-stan-stan is either. >> do you know what continent libya is. >> last i checked on the african continent. but maybe they moved it. michele bauchmann might know something we don't know. >> don't tell michele bauchmann. herman cain appearing to have a rough run this past week, like rick perry after he was in first place for 15 minutes. but we now have the statement that he said on piers morgan a couple of nights ago saying he was pro-choice. we around the table suspect despite the fact he's trying to back off of it, it's probably not going to play well in iowa. >> no, i don't think so, particularly because this is an area in the iowa caucuses where he wants to make a stand. a lot of these candidates, cain, perry, bauchmann, and the rest, are trying to make an iowa campaign work.

the thing about cain, and when i interviewed him last week, this business about making a joke about an electric fence or his performance in the debate. saying no, i wasn't asked about al qaeda and letting a hostage go. and it's so clearly on the tape. he's not remembering things or playing a little bit loose on some of these things, but it's not a good strategy. you can't play that loose on some of these issues and be shown to be to be ill-informed or just to be that inconsistent. >> david, it is hard for people in the mainstream media who are trying to be fair to state what seems so obvious to so many americans, that herman cain is making this up as he goes along. he's on a glorified book tour, and he has absolutely no organization in iowa or new hampshire. he's not going to the early states. he does not appear, by any objective standard, to be running a presidential campaign.

>> well, i think it's a fair point in terms of organizationally not ready. but look, he's caught some lightning in a bottle here with message and with biography. and he's seeing how that can grow. i don't think that in and of itself is that unusual. but take foreign policy as an example. and i thought the bauchmann clip there was very telling. i mean, look, this is 2011, the country's been at war for a decade. this is not a pop quiz to george w. bush in 2000 about who the leader of pakistan is. you had rick perry who referred to that pakistani country. if you want to be president of the united states -- and you don't have -- >> it's surreal! it is surreal! >> seriously, if you don't have fluency on issues like pakistan, which is the most dangerous country in the world and where all of our interests in that part of the world are interwoven, that's a serious problem. for michele bauchmann to say that we're disrespected around the world because of what president obama has done? i mean, you can criticize his

foreign policy and do other things, but it just reflects a lack of understanding of some depth of foreign policy. and i think about the hillary clinton ad, 3:00 a.m. phone call, are you ready? i asked that to herman cain because that's an obvious question now. it's every bit as obvious as the economy. >> a question about herman cain, and that is whether he's really serious about running for president of the united states, or he's looking for a kind of celebrity. he's going to get a lot of speeches after this. he's got a constituency now that he never had in his life. i think he comes out of this in terms of his own objectives. he never seriously thought he was going to be the nominee of the republican party. he comes out of this a winner in this crazy culture. >> he's a businessman. >> i don't know if the reason is business. >> sloganism -- >> i can't see in the guy's head. but he's not a serious candidate for the president of the united states. but there have been some other republicans, as you suggest, like perry, who also cannot be

conversant for bauchmann with the world we live in. >> i was on a panel last night, he said he met herman cain the other day and herman cain was saying i'm going to be president of the united states. he may not have thought he could be president when he started this, but when you get -- and this happens with candidates all the time. when you look up and you're number one in the polls, what started out was a cynical -- suddenly you're 35% in the polls saying maybe i could be president. >> if in the middle of that campaign when you think you have a chance to win, you stop giving the paid speeches, which herman cain is still giving, you stop going to book events and instead go to iowa and new hampshire. >> stop selling your book. >> he's not done that. he has no political organization. and he is going to book events

and paid speeches instead of going to where he should be, iowa. new hampshire. >> you're right, joe. but i agree with heilemann. i think he looked up and he saw himself on top of the polls and said, well, by gum, i'm going to be president of the united states. the thing is, in addition to doing the organizational things you need to do to run a presidential campaign, you ought to think through positions on issues like abortion, for example. >> yeah, that would be good. gitmo. >> and realize you can't be wishy washy on that. if you believe that abortion is murder and that it is wrong, then you're in and out going to like herman cain essentially taking the pro-choice position. and he's not going to be able to get away with that. and the lack of thinking and analysis, boy, i'm using the word analysis and herman cain in the same sentence.

it must be really early. >> his immigration policy is an electric fence. >> yeah. >> his gitmo policy is release all al qaeda prisoners in gitmo for one u.s. soldier, which nobody would do. his policy on abortion is scattered. he clearly -- and we've said this from the beginning, he clearly, katty kay, is making this up as he goes along. >> well, and he's certainly reversing his positions as he goes along. i think david's quite right. it's not enough in this day in age to be able to make fun of foreign policy by making up some joke name about a stan-stan-stan. the country is at war. we've had two wars, we've been involved in libya for the last seven months. this is not acceptable today for a person to be running for the president of the united states and just say i'm going to run on jobs and the economy and you know what? the rest doesn't really matter. there's a little bit of czsarah palin saying, people with big

fat resumes, that's not what counts. well, you know what? if you're going to be president of the united states, you need a big fat resume and it has to be across the board. >> i have people who ask me, why do you just pick on republicans? i guarantee you, if there was a democratic presidential candidate who seven months into a war in libya did not know that libya was in africa, i would debone them slowly, fillet them, and have them for breakfast every morning. but right now, that's not the world we live in. right now, david, we have a republican party that going to gene's column this morning in the "washington post," the majority of the presidential candidates on the stage, other than newt gingrich, ron paul, and huntsman don't seem to have even thought out a basic construct for foreign policy. >> well, two quick points. before you pile on herman cain, president obama also came into

office -- >> i'm sorry, i've got to put rick santorum in there too. i'm sorry. go ahead. >> no, rick is a senator for two terms. go ahead. >> on day one, president obama came in and said we're going to close guantanamo bay, which a lot of people appeared as kind of fantasy. and it's still not closed. for lots of reasons that make it really hard to close and very difficult choices that have to be made. so he could get that sort of criticism too about having sort of fantasy ideas about what you're going to do to turn on a dime in foreign policy. but look, the republican party to be fair here is in the middle of a big rethinking about what the united states role in foreign policy should be as is the obama administration. we're in a significant turn here in terms of how counterterror policy is waged. how we'll use large, land-based armies in parts of the world. we're in a period of rethinking of how our military is used and what our foreign policy is. it's actually a fascinating

time, it's a dangerous time. but i mean the tempo of counterterror operations, drone operations has completely changed warfare and is going to change how the republican party thinks about this. >> dave, if you're going to have a radical rethinking of foreign policy, all the more important for you to understand foreign policy. we're talking about a failure of basic competence of leaders like perry, that pakistani nation, bauchmann who is in front a couple of months ago, not knowing what continent libya's on, and herman cain making fun of u-becky-becky-stan-stan. >> there's no question about it. you have to have a certain threshold of understanding. we all understand that when you become president, everything we're talking about on "morning joe" and in the course of the campaign may pale in comparison to what you actually face when you get into office. something is going to happen. and that's the reality you have

to be prepared for. >> well -- >> can we have a serious politics? here we are having a discussion that we don't hear in the political debate. that's the problem. are we capable in this country of a serious political discussion at the level of the caucuses and the level of the candidates. and the answer so far is no. >> the answer's scary. david gregory, thank you so much. >> who do you have on "meet the press." >> we'll have a serious politics discussion. >> yes, you are. >> and ron paul. he's got views about foreign policy, as well. part of our meet the candidate series. >> david, thank you. we look forward to that. eugene robinson, thank you, as well. >> thank you, gene. coming up, al sharpton will join us onset. [ male announcer ] nature valley

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39 past the hour. bbc.com has launched a special investigation into child abuse in america. and the results are staggering. still with us in washington, anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. and give us, first of all, the

bottom line in terms of what the investigation found and any correlation between rough economic times and what you're finding. >> yeah, mika, you're right. the numbers here are absolutely astonishing. one child in america dies every five hours from abuse or neglect. that means that by lunchtime today, another child will have been killed in this country, often by a family member in their own home from abuse and neglect. the rate here is so much higher than in other industrialized countries. it's five times higher than in the united kingdom. it is seven times higher than in japan. it is 11 times higher than in italy. and what child experts have told the bbc is that it's to do with things with child teen pregnancies, out of wedlock teen pregnancies, those rates are much higher in the united states, as well. levels of incarceration are much higher in the united states, and there's much less social safety net. so that when you have stressed, young mothers having children who aren't -- and their mothers aren't necessarily prepared for

them, there isn't much in the way of post natal care, there isn't much in the way of preschool education toa5 give a break if you're a poor, struggling mother. it's a combination of those factors, which are just pushing the rates up here in the united states so high. >> and to put it in perspective, 66 children die from physical abuse every week in industrialized nations. but 25 of those 66 are here in the united states. and we saw some numbers. texas is at the top of that list. new york's also up very high. and so it's -- you think it's poverty and young single moms that are driving this. >> there definitely seems to be a correlation, joe, between young out of wedlock mothers and the rates of those and the rates of child abuse. and these higher levels of incarceration. and you're right, it varies across the united states. vermont has a very low rate of child abuse, and texas has a very high rate of child abuse.

75% of the children who die from abuse in america are under the age of 4. it's at that age when children, you know, when they're crying, when they can be stressful, and when stressed out mothers find they just don't have much of a safety net to support them. and one child expert i spoke to said, yes, there is a correlation between these tough economic times because some of the programs that protect young children are being cut. and the one thing we know about this economic crisis is that it was not kids that got us into it. >> it goes back -- >> it shouldn't be kids paying. >> it goes back to the social safety net. so in countries like europe, where there is more of a safety net, these numbers are much lower? >> we're seeing the correlation. the rate of child abuse in the united kingdom -- in the u.s. is five times higher than the united kingdom. >> five times. >> 11 times higher in the u.s. than it is in a country like italy, for example. right across the industrialized world, the rates are lower than they are here. we do need child experts, and this is a congressional study

that's found these numbers for us. we need people to look at why this is happening here in the united states and what can be done to prevent it from happening. one child expert we spoke to said we are breeding the next generation of child abusers. that's the sad thing about kids that are abused often turn out to be abusers themselves. it's not acceptable that a child dies every five hours in this country from abuse or neglect. >> i'll tell you, katty. you don't need a sociologist to document what you've been talking about. for nearly 30 years, on more than an occasional basis i would be out covering a murder or a fire late at night, and invariably in certain sections of boston or any other major city, you know, you'd bump into 14, 15-year-old young women with their babies. and in my mind's eye, it would be a double death sentence. a 14-year-old or 15-year-old mother with a little infant. neither of them with any real shot at succeeding in this life that's around us.

so it's no surprise that these things -- that these things occur. >> it's -- >> and there are some simple and inexpensive fixes that some of the child experts point to. things like every mother who might be at risk while they're in the hospital with the baby should be shown a video of how to handle a baby that's crying. it's little things that we can do as well as the broader issue as well as the social safety net. >> katty kay, thank you very much. fascinating, staggering, and really, really depressing. as we look forward in terms of how we deal with the problems in this country. getting worse. up next, herman cain says he can run for president and promote his book at the same time. now nbc's investigative correspondent is taking a close look at the numbers. and why many question if he really has his eye on the oval office. companies you're just a policy.

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welcome back to "morning joe." look at that beautiful shot. welcome back, everyone. some recent decisions by presidential candidate herman cain are raising questions about his real motives for running. we've been talking about this, and joining us now with his investigation from washington is nbc news national investigative correspondent michael ithaca. what have you found? >> well, the question here is whether or not he wins the republican nomination. he could still come out a big winner by running for president. >> reporter: as he shakes up the republican primary race, herman cain is facing new questions about whether he is profiting from his own campaign. firings made public this week show that cain's campaign committee has used $100,000 collected from donors to pay cain's own company. for thousands of these booklets

written and self-published by cain. that means profits for cain himself and could run afoul of campaign laws say watchdog groups. >> the company is going to benefit. and when the company benefits, herman cain is going to benefit. this has every appearance that herman cain is running for president largely to sell books and enrich his own company. >> federal rules prohibit a candidate from using campaign funds for personal benefit. but cain's aides say the payments to his company were allowed and were vetted by a campaign lawyer. he dismisses the perception that he's running to make a profit. >> if they know herman cain, they wouldn't even make such an assertion. how's that for political correctness? >> reporter: but the payments have fueled criticism, even among some republicans that cain is using the presidential race to promote a post-campaign career as a highly paid writer and speaker that could take off much the way sarah palin's did. the company that got the

payments is called ee eed the n voice, cain is the sole owner. they sell pamphlets and dvds that godfather's pizza and motivational speaker. >> i have achieved what i had hoped for all my life. >> business week reported that cain has earned $250,000 giving motivational speeches. instead of campaigning in iowa and new hampshire, cain was on a book tour, it debuts this week at number five on the "new york times" best seller list. >> i can promote a book and campaign at the same time. >> you can say cain's strategy is working. he's still at the top of the polls, but if you look closely, he still has only a skeletal campaign staff in key primary states. he's not even on the ballot in some states. all that suggests that at this

point at least, his bid is an uphill battle. >> he spent $100,000 of his contributor's money buying his own books which he will profit from. it sounds an awful lot like what got jim wright kicked out of office in 1989 or 1990? >> almost everybody i talked to raised the jim wright example. now, there are some particulars to this that make it a bit murky. the argument from the cain campaign is that if cain's company just gave the books to the campaign, then it would be an illegal corporate contribution to the cain campaign. >> exactly, but michael, obviously, you let a third party do it so you don't profit from it. >> that is the answer. you don't allow yourself to profit off your own campaign. >> michael isikoff. thank you so much. >> coming up, did florida

senator marco rubio embellish the facts on his family's immigrant past. we'll be back with that story. financial advise is everywhere. i mean everywhere. real objective investing help. that's a little harder to find. but, here's what i know... td ameritrade doesn't manage mutual funds. or underwrite stocks and bonds. or even publish their own research. so guidance from td ameritrade isn't about their priorities. it's about mine. it's about mine. it's about mine. straight forward guidance, that's what makes td ameritrade different. ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose --

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♪ >> welcome back. "the washington post" reports that florida senator marco rubio

may have embellished facts about the time his parents spent living in cuba. according to the paper, documents show rubio's parents came to the united states two years before castro took power, despite rubio saying they fled the cast row regime. he draws on his family's immigrant past. >> if we honestly confront the great challenges of our time and end foreign debt, record spending and runaway government, theirs will be the most prosperous generation in history. if we don't, they will become the first generation of americans to inherit a diminished nation. as a son of exiles, i understand what it means to lose your country. this idea about america being exceptional. it's not something i read about in a book. as a son of exiles, my parents were born into a society pretty much like every other in the world. where you're not the right

family, you can only go so far. >> rubio responded to the allegations issuing a statement saying "to suggest my family's story is embellished for political gain is outrageous. the dates i've given regarding my family's history have been based on my parent' recollection. i was not made aware of the exact dates until very recently." >> he says in an interview, "i've been going off the oral history of my family. all these documents and passp t passports are not things i carry around with me." >> rubio's parents left may 27, 1956. does this matter? >> well, it certainly matters to marco rubio. this is one of the brightest rising young stars in the republican party. someone who is in everyone's mind mental short list for the vice presidential candidate this year.

he's a favorite of the tea party, florida senator, this is going to be a huge problem for him. >> carl bernstein, can this be explained? >> probably not. the real thing is it means rob portman is going to be the vice presidential nominee of the republican party because republicans need florida and ohio to win. portman would be, i would think, the nominee, not rubio for vice president. >> it can be explained. >> it can be. >> what's that, barnicle? >> i think marco's dad said marco, take our story and make it better. >> coming up, al sharpton, we'll talk about the latest out of libya. we're back with more "morning joe" in a moment. you name it.

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♪ >> good friday morning to you. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. we have mike barnicle and john hellemann aconnilong with katty >> we found out it was the united states that helped participate in the killing of gadhafi. it looks like barack obama again. another big win for barack obama. >> i don't think you can argue with that. we're learning more about the united states. >> i wouldn't argue with that. why would you suggest it? did you see the show yesterday?

she was like poor kevin mccarthy. >> kevin mccarthy is just fine. if kevin mccarthy wanted to have a bad day, i would have started at the top there. there's another republican we had on the show who got a huge pass on a similar issue. >> who's that? >> major softball. i will be kind. >> who was that? >> i will be serious. >> you don't want me to do that. >> the viewers would like to know. >> i didn't know we had another republican on the show. respect we allowed to have one republican every two weeks. >> tower of power. >> democratic power hour. >> that's what they're calling it on twitter. the righties are calling this, because they called it at first the democratic hour of power. i've got to object to your suggesting we had more than one republican on. >> i thought mika was too nice to kevin mccarthy. >> kevin mccarthy got a base on

balls yesterday. >> may have handed him softballs. >> made a couple jokes on oranges and softballs. he was on first base. you got to hit him harder. >> you know what, what mika wants -- what hellemann wants is whoever is in that chair, hellemann wants kevin mccarthy to look like this by the end of the day. >> that's a little cruel. >> let's get to the big news of the day. we're learning more about the role of the united states in the final moments of moammar gadhafi's life. it was as joe mentioned an american predator drone that spotted gadhafi's convoy trying to flee the city the sirte. what happened between the air strike and capture and death remain murky.

yesterday president obama acknowledged it was the work of the coalition that helped topple the gadhafi regime, an effort that will end up costing about $1.5 billion. >> we got money. >> well spent. >> yeah. with gadhafi gone, the focus turns to rebuilding libya, both politically and economically. lindsey graham of south carolina -- >> i love this. i love this. i love this. >> who does he want to invade now? >> he's going to invade somebody else. what i love is that republicans are against investment in infrastructure. unless you're investing in infrastructure outside of america. >> can't help himself. i was going to get there. it's all right. just gobble it all up. >> what did he say? >> okay. thank you. it is delicious though, isn't it? i can see why you can't help it. here it is. >> we can go over and help them build their infrastructure up.

there's a lot of business opportunity in libya. the country has been ravaged. one of the problems i have with leading from behind, when a day like this comes, we don't have the infrastructure in place we could have. let's get in on the ground. there's a lot of money to be made in libya. let's get on the ground and help the libyan people establish a democracy and functioning economy. >> let's rebuild another country, because you know what? $2 billion a week in afghanistan, it's just not enough let's spend $2 billion in libya. let's $2 billion, because, it's kind of like the '50s. we're so flush with money. >> we're rolling in it. >> we're running surpluses. if we don't waste our money trying to rebuild other countries now, when would we do it? when would we do it? >> there's so many different

things about this. >> there's also the similar problem that lindsay referenced that a lot of republicans seem to vrks giving the president of the united states credit for this. >> thank you. >> credit for this. there's a problem with leading from behind. there was no problem here. we got him. >> thank you very much. leading from behind worked really well. unless your goal is to invade every muslim country on the face of the earth. >> i want to hear from katty y kay. >> there's something a little untoward about the day after. i'm glad gadhafi is gone. there's something untoward saying about now that he's dead, let's go make some money. let's get over there and profiteer as much as we can. >> brooklyn might consider that. i don't mind the united states making money from his death. i mind the united states taxpayers watching their schools crumble, watching their roads

crumble, watching their bridges crumble, watching their airports crumble, watching r & d cut. caan saying let's rebuild other countries. >> let's be realistic, katty kay, libya is home to the largest oil reserves and the ninth largest in the world. >> hold on a second. libya is in africa? really? because will somebody e-mail michele bachmann. are you telling me seriously. it's that big country at the top. >> don't be mean. how do you run for president of the united states and not know that libya is in africa? i'm just saying. >> catty, balance our interests here given what has happened and deal with joe? >> and deal with joe at the same time? >> can't be done. >> you're asking an awful lot

for 6:00 in the morning. >> balance our interests in libya. >> this was an extraordinary example of how leading from behind can be effective right on the last day. what did we have? we had an american drone spotted the con voichlt a french missile fired on the convoy. most importantly, it was libyan rebels who picked gadhafi up. in the last 24 hours, we've seen pretty much immaculate working on how this system can work for american foreign policy. it is critical that the libyans were the ones who took him in the end and it wasn't a drone or missile from a foreign power that killed him. the republicans, they're kind of falling over themselves when they can'4vp give the president credit for this. whatever you think about whether the nato mission should have taken place, whether it was worth american involvement and a relatively small sum of $1 billion to be involved in the nato mission on the day calledty falls, you have to give the

white house and the coalition credit for it. >> willie, be straight here, the leading republican candidate yesterday, if you discount herman cain, which you should, mitt romney said repeatedly, sure, he deserves credit. that's the right answer. bill clinton would do that. if republicans did something that was obviously right, he was smart enough to say i give the republicans all the credit in the world. >> some people can't bring themselves to do it. even when osama bin laden, the poster child, was killed. some say the bush administration. it was george bush. >> kind of like fonzie not being able to say wrong. >> they can't say president obama did something right. i want to know how lindsey graham could have watched the last decade of money and lives lost and say we ought to go in and day that again. how can a united states senator sit and say that with a straight

face? >> i don't know how. i've known lindsey for a long time. i don't know how lindsey graham and john mccain and joe lieberman, who basically run foreign policy in the united states senate and i've talked to senator mccain about it. i have great respect for him. i just don't know how you have that position in 2011. we have exhausted our military. it is stretched to the limits. we are running $2 billion in debt per week in afghanistan, and it seems like they want to expand america's footprint across the globe with the united states of america crumbling. this is not a conservative position. the conservative position would be show restraint abroad. show restraint in government at home, and yeah, rebuild your country. invest in america.

america first. of course, when you start talking that way, the far left calls you an isolationist. i think 90% of americans would much rather us invest in, you know, america than libya or afghanistan or yemen or all the other countries where we're just wasting billions and billions of dollars. >> i have mcgovern in my mind, come home, america. >> the left did it too. >> that would be a good slogan for you. >> there are shades of gray here, right? we're not talking about going into libya and nation building. nobody is doing that. >> well,> he's talking about building infrastructure. >> and investing and making money off of oil, which is fine. >> if you want to put america first, there are arguments to be made that you also want libya to become an america friendly

country in that region of the world, right? >> it is. >> you can do that with some technical assistance. this country has no government. it had gadhafi for the last 42 years. it does need courts that function. it needs rule of law. it needs an oil industry that can export in a non-corrupt manner. you can do that for very small sums of money. that's not nation building. that is in america's interests. >> that may be preventive work that has to be done in the wake of gadhafi. >> that may be preventive work. the united states should participate if it's part of a br broad, international coalition. we made a mistake. i made a mistake supporting a war in iraq without waiting for the rest of the international community to get on board. we have learned our lesson. 75% of americans supported iraq and afghanistan. most americans have learned our

lessons. the united states can't shove democracy down other people's throats at the end of a gun. if it's part of an international coalition where we're not paying the load, where it's not all of our young men and women who are dying, that's fine, but that's not the model that lindsey graham and the neocaans and the senate want to push. they want the united states firing all the missiles. they want the united states having boots on the ground first. they want them taking the oil. it's not the way the 21st cent triis going to be won. >> i completely agree. no one wants iraq ever again and probably not afghanistan. if america totally washes its hands now of libya, having invested this much, you may not reap the benefits of what you've done so far. >> i'm not saying we completely wash our hands of any country. zblt other side of it is like the criminal side, the other side of this equation that you are pointing out.

how you can possibly stand up and say those things and then deny the president's agenda, what should be the agenda of both parties to fix the broken infrastructure of america. that's the part -- i don't understand how republicans put themselves in that position. there's no conservative economics that i understand that doesn't think there's a role for government in doing the things that the private economy will not do, building bridges, fixing roads, felting our physical plant in order. the country is falling apart at the seams and there's no republicans willing to stand up and say this is not a partisan issue. we have to have a 21st century economy. it's not a partisan issue. it's become one. >> thank you for refocusing us. it wasn't about libya. we brought this up because again the inconsistency of wanting to rebuild libya, but always being out there fighting against investment in new roads, new

schools, new bridges, new airport, r & d. >> i don't know what else lindsey graham said, but it's obviously a more complicated statement. late last night democrats and republicans fell short of the 60 votes needed to bring their jobs bills to the senate floor. in a 50-50 vote, they blocked the pre's jobs plan to retain and rehire teachers, police officers and first responders. funding for the proposal would come through a tax increase of half a percent for people earning more than $1 million a year. this marks the first attempt by senate democrats to move pieces of the president's american jobs act that was defeated by the senate by a filibuster last week. the president called the vote last night unacceptable. in a statement he said in part "for the second time in two weeks every single republican in the u.s. senate has chosen to obstruct a bill that would

create jobs and get our economy going again." biden is in a bit of a controversy about some remarks he made some are saying are inciting fear. >> joe is locked down. >> do you want to go there before break? >> sure, i would love to. >> you're saying joe talked off the top of his head? >> i really like this. maybe you won't. republicans were singling out vice president joe baden for comments that he made wednesday claiming public safety could be at risk if the jobs bill is not passed. >> police departments, as i said in some cases, literally cut in half, like camden, new jersey and flint, michigan. many cities, the result has been, and it's not unique, murder rates are up, robberies are up, rapes are up. >> it's not temporary when that 911 call comes in and the woman is being raped and the cop shows

up in time, it's not temporary to that woman. it's not temporary to the guy whose store is being held up, if a cop shows up and he's not killed. that's notzy;o temporary. >> the vice president is attempting to use fear tactics on the american people and really to me shows a sign of desperation of the vice president and of this administration because they realize that their policies have failed the american people. they inherited a bad situation and they have made it worse. >> here comes the real joe biden at an event wednesday. biden was confronted by a human events reporter forced to defend his statements. take a listen. >> do you regret using a rape reference to describe republican reference? >> let's get it straight. don't screw around with me. >> you didn't use a rape reference? >> i said rape was up three times in flint. they are the numbers. go look at the numbers. murder is up, rape is up and

burglaries are up. >> if the republicans don't pass this bill then rape will continue to rise. >> murder will continue to rise, rape will continue to rise. all crimes will continue to rise. >> anyone have a problem with that? >> no, none. it's true. >> i wish i would see more of that actually. >> that's demagoguery. you know it. >> pass our bill, your wife is going to get raped. >> that's not what he said, joe. >> of course it's what he said. >> please. >> what did he say? pass this bill -- >> if you continue to cut police department personnel, if police departments continue to shrink, if fire departments continue to shrink, you will have an issue of public safety. on the police side, if you continue to cut gang units, you're going to have more rapes in some neighborhoods, more murders in some neighborhoods. crime is going to go up. >> i wish i heard this argument a long time ago. >> his problem is when he had the press conference, he was

doing it in front of unions. if you want to ask cory booker whose fault it is that newark is a more dangerous place today, he's not going to say senate republicans, he's going to say the police unions he's dealing with in newark, new jersey. the fact of the matter is, guess what, the economy is down. what does that mean? there's less money coming in the coffers of new york and camden and the fact is that there are some unions that have stood up to like cory booker and said fire us. we're not going to give up any concessions. again, i'm not saying this. cory booker and other mayors are saying this that there's a time when everybody needs to pitch in and a lot of public unions aren't coming to the table on this. >> you'll get no argument from me on a city to city basis, union behavior varies. some scities, the unions are on

16 ate. if you went to cory booker and say we know you have the union problems but how would you like more federal money to hire more police officers, i think his answer would be yes. >> why didn't we just do that with gm? why didn't we do that with detroit? you guys keep running your companies the way you're going to run the companies and we're going to go ahead and flood you with money? that's the same thing happening here. >> public safety wasn't at issue there. they are different problems. >> you can't behind public safety. >> hold on a second. >> are you saying the police and firefighters and teachers shouldn't pay anything into their health benefitins? >> no. >> that is so connected. >> right now, we have a down economy and the vice president is making a very simple point. he's saying, you know, there are a whole bunch of problems. you want to fix the tax code. right now, the economy is in the tank so there's an issue with

funding fundamental, vital services in cities across the country. if we don't fund them properly, more people will die. more people will suffer. >> first of all, you watch this show, you're on this show enough to know i understand that. i'm the one who talks about investing. all i'm trying to say is it's not as simple as saying vote for our bill or you want your children to get raped. it's not that simple. there's two sides to this story. i thought and i think willie, you thought, that language was a bit over the top. it's never quite that simple. barnicle, you're smirking so you know it was demagoguery, even though i respect you for holding up your side of the position. do you understand that's all i'm saying? >> i do. it's justifiable on the facts just as it was justifiable when democrats said if we continue to leave 35 million people uninsured and don't fix health care, more people will die. it's true. >> look at barnicle.

you know it was true demagoguery. >> up next, reverend al sharpton and toure join the table. the restaurant that is proud of being bad forg6m your health. willie's weekend review. why don't we do bill now and get it over with. >> contractual obligation we like to call it. people need their weather forecast. good morning. this is many of the ap laborerians are at their peak. the area in peak is in the area in red. we're past the peak in wisconsin. should be very enjoyable. this is probably the two best weeks to go for the drives. cool in the great lakes but the warm air is in the south. rainy spot in the northwest. nice day today from boston to new york. brisk but dry.

good deal of sunshine. much of the country is very cool this morning. night warmup though, chicago, kansas city and atlanta, what a great finish to your friday. this weekend, more of the same. this is an a plus weekend many areas of the country in the 60s and 70s. unless you're in the pacific northwest, you're going to be dry and sunny. hope you enjoy a beautiful weekend. washington, d.c., you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] lactaid milk is easy to digest. it's real milk full of calcium and vitamin d. and tastes simply delicious. for those of us with lactose intolerance... lactaid® milk. the original 100% lactose-free milk.

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. >> you need to sit down, please. >> i'm so excited. i get excited. >> joining us now, the host of

msnbc's politics nation. >> hardest working man in show business. >> actually, he is. >> the reverend al sharpton. >> do you ever sleep? every week, you're moving. you're constantly moving. >> on the go. >> i was raised that way. you know jay brown helped raise me. he was the hottest man in show business. i never got out of the habit. >> also here, nbc contributor toure, author of "who's afraid of post blackness." >> i got a question for you. who's afraid of post blackness? >> it's interesting because this is a concept that looks to expand what it means to be black. i thought -- >> like for instance, you can now where gingham on tv and look like a prepster from the university of alabama and still be black. >> i think the definition has expanded to infinity. there's 40 million ways to be

black. >> he looks kind of preppy here. >> you know, it's not that this is black and this is not. you know, like reverend and i are both black. we do it different ways. he's not going to say you are not black because you are preppy. >> that does happen. >> we say that to each other. i wonder if there was a fear in some people you are expanding it to infinity. what does that mean? there must be borders. >> during education reform, reverend sharpton actually has a foot in both camps, because what john legend tells us is you go to these meetings on education reform, there are young african-americans pushing saying why are we going to do it the way you guys have done it in 50 years. let's move in a new direction. old camp says no, this is how it was in 1962. reverend sharpton has a foot in both worlds. >> joe, you're right, a lot of it is jen raciagenerational too.

i remember years ago, toure and i started talking. i interviewed him for this book. you have to remember that the demographics particularly used to be among the black leadership, southern baptists. i grew up in brooklyn where i went to school with kids that came out of interracial marriage, caribbeans. i understood blackness better than most of the civil leaders before me. >> generational in that the advances that the civil rights generation made for us where we don't have to fight for basic human rights. we don't have to be afraid for our survival as we walk down the street as you had to be in the 60s, but not at all. when jesse jackson tells me about when they first started his activism, his father told him don't do that because you might be killed. we don't worry about that anymore. you don't worry about getting killed. not worrying about that, not

worrying about basic human rights, it creates a different relation with america and blackness. >> talk about also how, this is something that young african-american leaders are pushing. talk about how there's that sort of resentment that you get with any jen rakesle divide when you talk about let's not do it the way you are doing it and an older guy says son, you weren't there. how often do you hear that? >> i did hear some of the older people say you guys are so much angrier and you have it so much easier. i did hear that. >> he hears grandson. i hear son. >> what's been the reaction in the african-american community, this book, and how has it varied? >> a lot of people have been open and welcoming and thank you for this message. people stop me on the street and say oh, my god i have felt not black because i like rock and roll or i like russia or whatever. you made me feel like i'm black too. that's really powerful. especially a lot of mixed people

said i was made to feel not really black. i'm neither here nor there. you made me feel welcome and embraced. that's powerful when you can do that with a book. >> is there any criticism you have gotten that made you think? >> hell no. >> no way. there have been some things that have been thrown, like one person talked about well, we have to have a way of attacking and debunking those who would sin against the community, commit treason against the community. i'm like okay, what would constitute treason against a black community now? if you were participating in killing malcolm x or destroying the black panthers, then that is treasonness against the black community that is directly harming the entire community. what would constitute that now? i don't know. if you deal drugs, you are committing a crime against the community. >> i think that as much as i agree with the expanded view of blackness, if you do things that

are die metically opposed to the black community, i think that's treason. >> what would that be? i mean like our interests are so varied and broad. what would be something you could do that would harm every black person. >> mika talk about in new york, stop and frisk. if you got out and said that's not a real issue, i would consider that against everyone's interest. whether they stop you or me, it has nothing to do with our cultural background, it's been prove be based on race. >> what it means to be black now, is this idea you hear it all the time, what it means to be legitimately black. you have a great line which you coin, for some reason it's cool to go to jail but not to go to yale. what does that tell you? >> it tells me that certain things, in certain situations, we are tasked with choosing between things that might make

you successful and things that might make you black. that's a horrible choice we cannot have. that's a destructive choice. nobody is looking at the guys who are dealing drugs as not black or not being productive to blackness. people that go to yale, you might lose it, don't sell out. it's portable. it goes with me to yale. it goes with me to the national network. >> the first lady who talked about this when she heard some of this from the black community. this is what you said you wanted for us. you said you wanted us to get educated. now we have ascended to the highest place in the country and we're still getting flak. this goes all the way to the top is what i'm saying. >> sure. you hear it thrown at obama that he's not really black, because he doesn't come directly from the slavery experience or he has a white parent. he's part of the reason i started this. he seems to expand the conception of what it means to

be black. to say he's not really black is ridiculous. >> reverend sharpton, you have been a champion of education reform. you've knocked down boundaries. you've worked with newt gingrich. one of the things you've seen is that in the past, there has been peer pressure against young african-americans to study hard and get ahead in school. >> that's right. that's one of the reasons why we got heavily in this in national network. when my daughters who you know, told me that the peer pressure is that if you speak well and study well, some say you are acting white. what does that mean? that's the ultimate language of white supremacy, only whites can speak well and be smart? that's not the historic journey of blacks. it was that we can excel and it was thinkers, and i think that this new kind of last decade of

glorifying gangsterism, identifying that's black, that's treason. we didn't define hoodlums and thugs. >> you also got in trouble for saying blunt things about what goes on in popular culture. i don't want to sound like a 75-year-old white yale graduate that bumped -- that listened to hip hop music for the first time, but if you go to xm, there's a channel that has hard core hip hop on it. a friend of mine had put it on. i got in the car and i just listened to it. i love music. look, i wouldn't usually listen to this channel. the references to drugs. the references to the n word thrown around every three seconds. i sat there who horrified, if i were a black parent in america today, i would go to war against these people.

>> we did. >> you have. but i cannot believe how corrosive the words are. >> white kids are purchasing it more than black kids. those who are actually purchasing music. your parents said the same thing about the rolling stones and the beatles and james brown, which will ruin your world. their parents are saying the same thing. >> that's a false analogy. the rolling stones, the beatles, the sex pistols were not talking about violence against women. this continues. it is corrosive to any culture. reverend you got in trouble for talking about this. >> one, tamika mallory went after this for two reasons. one, it's psychologically has people adjusting to this. i'm talking about the kids. secondly, the record companies,

the music industry does limit what you can say about some groups and some professions. why is it allowed here? we questioned the double standard. you can't make aspersions against certain groups in this country. why can you do it against blacks? let's have a single standard. so some of the hard core hip hoppers said to me i'll say what you want to. i say no you won't, go in the studio and cut a cd that disparages the ethnic group that runs your record group. i'll see how gangster you are. >> sometimes i think the marijuana growers association of america is giving subsidies to rappers. it's like take more, take more. hip hop has been so huge for so long. if it was going to ruin a generation, it would have been ruined. >> i'm sorry. i didn't want to get side tracked. >> some of them are very good.

>> we're talking about though the corrosive effect and the attitudes in school. it's just really, really -- my generation, white and black, i grew up in suburban new jersey. all we listened to is hip hop. i love hip hop music. i hate the ma sojny in it. >> you're all together. >> you're up way too early. >> thank you. >> can you guys come back? let's continue this conversation. >> "who's afraid of post-blackness? ". >> you can listen to willie rap. it's amiazing. uh, i'm in a timeout because apparently

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. >> let's go to jack on "business before the bell" on cnbc's michelle francis. >> you guys are having a good time on this friday morning. i love it. >> all a little tired. >> we continue to watch europe, the headlines out of there. there's a big summit coming up on sunday. have you guys heard of the misery index? it is that 28 year high. >> mika has heard of the misery index.

how's your misery index? >> it's fabulous. >> it's inflation plus unemployment. right now it's at a 28 year high. the number is 13. we have inflation rising at the fastest pace in three years. it's at 3.9. unemployment is 9.1. this is the pain of the people. it is at a 28 year high. that's what everybody is feeling out there on the street. we're also watching earnings down here today as well. mcdonald's, ge, verizon. we're going to try to be less miserable before the weekend. >> it looks calm on the floor. no riots, no overturned police cars. >> i'm waiting for you to come down, meet the people, mingle with people and the other 99% away from you. you're not here. >> i've got to say the 99% absolutely move me. i'll be down there. i promise i'll be down there today.

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here they are, the top three stories of the week. ♪ >> at number three, gaga for ba ba. >> my first real bill moment. >> it wasn't happy birthday, mr. president. lady gaga serenaded bill clinton with a variation on her song "bad romance." >> i just thought we all would get caught up in a little bill romance. >> gaga dressed a little flesh toned number which at least wasn't made out of deli meat. set up shop in front of the president as the current secretary of state clapped along intensely. >> i am the only person in history who then had a post-presidential birthday party attended by both lady gaga and

the secretary of state. >> at number two, back on the bus. >> i've got a pretty nice ride. it's not your normal rv. >> president obama hopped on his $1 million bus and took a spin through north carolina and virginia, where he fought accusations that he was merely out campaigning for re-election. his vice president, meanwhile, went ahead and confirmed those accusations. >> people say we're campaigning. we sure in heck are campaigning. >> the man campaigning against barack obama this time three years ago, didn't much care for the president's sleek set of wheels. >> i've never seen an uglier bus. >> the only people less enthusiastic about the president's trip were the folks at this stop. >> i sent to congress the american jobs act. it's a jobs bill. >>. [ applause ] >> you can go ahead and clap. >> the number one story of the week. >> gadhafi is dead. >> one of the worst dictators

was killed after 42 years in power. did you see the real housewives slap fight at the debate? >> so much stuff. >> i don't care about you anymore. >> if you knew -- >> would you please wait? >> mitt romney and rick perry clawed at each other during the republican debate in las vegas, but the king of that glittering town threw every ounsz of his dye, bleach and botox behind another candidate. >> i will support this beautiful lady as long as she wants to go. >> thank you. >> herman cain spent another week in the headlines with his produce-based economic plan. >> the state tax is an apple. we are replacing the current tax code with oranges. >> with his high voltage border fence proposal. >> 20 feet high with barbed wire, electrified. >> with his grasp of foreign policy.

>> you beck stan. >> that came up in hillary's meeting with hamid karzai. >> he said i don't know the presidents of all these countries. >> all these places. >> sure, you can mock some of the man's policy ideas. as we were reminded again with the unearthing of a 20-year-old piece of video, herman cain can flat out sing, especially about pizza. ♪ imagine there's no pizza >> it's no less moving each time you hear it. up next, what did we learn today? 4g-- the next evolution in wireless technology. with advanced power, the verizon 4g lte network makes your business run faster: smartphones, laptops, tablets, mobile hotspots. but not all 4g is created equal. among the major carriers, only verizon's 4g network is 100% lte, the gold standard of wireless technology.

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sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. you know what else is early? medicare open enrollment. now through december 7th. can i stick with my old medicare plan? sure! or find a new plan with better coverage, less cost, or both. medicare plans give you free cancer screenings and wellness visits and 50% off on brand-name prescriptions when you're in the doughnut hole.

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we learned today. mika. >> jamie, please come here. jamie is leaving us. mike barnicle, you have one last thing to apologize for everything you said or did during her reign here. you have been wonderful. >> thank you. >> we're going to miss you. i don't like change. >> i know. >> is your replacement going to be okay? >> leaving you in good hands. >> all right. >> thank you. >> stay up here with us. >> what did you learn, willie? >> we're going to miss jamie. >> sometimes you say that when people are leaving.

this time we mean it. >> you learn their names on the last name. i've known jamie's name from the beginning. she really is as good as it gets. who is that e.p. that worked here for a few years. what's his name? >> sounds like -- >> pete green. >> what did you learn today? >> john? >> chris green. >> marco rubio has a problem. >> his people are pushing back. >> they're pushing back. they're saying the post is an embellishment. >> wrap it up. you're done, barnicle. done. go. >> i learned if it's way too early, what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." >> chuck todd is up next. >> we love you. i'm not a number. i'm not a line item on a budget.

and i'm definitely not a pushover. but i am a voter. so washington... before you even think about cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪

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