target. i was concern weed not leave a small number of advisers there. they would have provided some moderating influence on the military and in addition training. the lack of immunity was a deal breaker and they would have remained vulnerable. this is a great outcome for iraq and the united states. >> this immunity issue is a major point. it's interesting because you have the iraqis wanting a slight footprint from the soldiers in the form of training the troops there. they were unwilling to offer this immunity. why is that a sticking point when they agree it was necessary to have troops still there at the end of the year? >> i think massive national pride and mr. sadr, the shiite fire brand was going to bring down the government if he tried to do that. at the end of the day, we have an agreement in places like germany. we are not too concerned about

having the troops in a german court. we couldn't tolerate that in iraq. we got a bad record. that blackwater incident inflamed passions in iraq. again, i think at the end of the day we had 36,000 killed and wounded there. they have a national police. they have an army. they have got an operating democratic government of sorts. now it's time for us to come out and maintain contact. we will have a massive contact or presence. they have a huge embassy and there will be a couple hundred military officers in the embassy to monitor foreign military sales. time to go. >> as you pointed out, the countless lives lost and you cannot put a dollar on that. when you look beyond the loss of life, the number, the dollar, $712 billion spent to date on the war in iraq. let me bring in richard engle.

i heard you say something i thought was beautifully put when the news broke and said so many other presidents who wished they could bring troops home for the holidays. here we are at this point. >> for the troops are all home for the holidays and i assume he doesn't mean halloween, he will be accomplishing something that hasn't happened for nine years. or nearly nine years. it is very significant. people would like to see an end to the iraq war. i watched this war fatigue build in america. many iraqis are nervous. they like the idea of having a small american presence. a trip wire or safeguard that the dark days are not going to return. at the end of the day, a few thousand american trainer who is don't have immunity are not going to prevent a civil war. >> what are the conditions on the ground? the violence is escalating.

>> it's not promising at all. there is sectarian violence on the rise. we are seeing sectarian assassinations for which we haven't seen for a while. >> car bombs daily. >> not quite daily, but maybe every week. that's ominous. these ax assassinations based on ethnicity. if you are a sunni, you are killed by shiite militias and vice-versa. that is starting to return. we are seeing iran continuing to have a consistently high influence in the country. kurdish militant groups, one in particular just recently launched a cross border raid into turkey and turkey has responded by deploying about 10,000 troops along the border with iraq and carrying out military operations in the north. iraq is very vulnerable, but going back to what the general was saying, leaving a few thousand troops there without

immunity would probably not behoove the united states. this was a deal that would have helped the iraqis more than the united states. if they don't want to give troops immunity or the latitude to operate, leaving them there seems indefensible. >> you painted a picture of a very fragile iraq. people look back at this and you bring up the loss of life of american solders and iraqis. $700 billion spend over a decade and you have people watching and hearing this and saying it was a failure. >> people may say that. this is the moment of truth in this degree. we will know if iraq can stand on its own. >> how can they? >> by pulling out you might be forcing the iraqis to take more responsibility. they can't rely on americans to pay for things. they can't rely on americans to call in a drone strike and take out an enemy. they will have to build intelligence on the ground and

do things themselves. iraqi troops won't have americans waking them up in the morning telling them to put their uniforms on and going out to fight the war. we will see if it works, but if indications continue, a lot of people will declare this war was a failure. >> if you look back at the situation, you heard richard detail the conditions on the ground. what we have been reading and seeing as well, how do you avoid the natural conclusion that this was a failure. they said listen, i kept my promise. that's what he started out today saying he kept his promise here. we have to look back at what happened over the past decade. >> i actually don't think it is a failure. it would be if they are slaughtering the curd or sunni minority or attacking their neighbors.

i think we ought to say thank got we got in and got out leaving an intact society. i think we will keep it together. the kurds will never allow an iraqi division. the real question will be, can they get governance going or will we end up with an iraqi general in charge of the system in short order? the latter is more likely. >> general, it's not an issue of the troops failing. they were sent in and married out their mission honorably and bravely and they have done the best they could under the circumstances in that country. i don't want there to be implication on any part that this is somehow a question of their role. we know what they did and what they were sent to do. >> there were problems along the way. not every act was honorable. there were a lot of dark days. >> there were dark days in the

decisions that led to it in the first place. >> very flawed entry into the operation. mr. rumsfeld's thinking was completely off the mark and inadequate combat power and no allies and no thought of what we do what when we win. we got off to bad footing in iraq. >> i was going back to what the general said earlier. al-sadr. he was happy to have american trainers stay on. it helps support his government. it gives it more stability and gives it a lot more access to expensive equipment. if you have 1,000 troops with radios and access to drones and intelligence. if i that are gone, the bureau is packed up and the equipment leaves. al-sadr and more hard line parties were using this to attack. he is the man who wants to extend the occupation. he is an american agent.

will he be able to hold on to power even now that he is giving in? that's the question that the general is raising. will this political system collapse and a strong man come in? how iraq evolves over the next year will be very, very significant to watch. >> thank you. let's bring in kristen welker live at the white house. this was not a huge surprise. we have gotten a lot of write ups. i'm curious the back story as far as the white house and who was contacted. we heard from senator reid saying he was contact and speaker boehner said he had not been contacted here. what can you tell us about the tick tock of all of this coming down to the president's announcement in the last hour? >> that's right, tamron. according to top gop aides, speaker boehner was not contacted about this announcement. senate majority leader reid said he completely supports the announcement that the president

made today. another part of that tick tock is the president obama spoke by video conference to the iraqi prime minister at about 11:30 this morning. we got a little bit more information about that discussion according to the deputy national security adviser who said it was a really warm discussion. the prime minister of iraq expressed his gratification to the president for all of those american lives that have been lost. they also talked about the fact that these two leaders have been through a lot together. a little bit more about that video conference and tamron, as you all have been talking about, the president began his comments today by saying that this is really a campaign promise that he is fulfilling. a promise he made at the moment he was elected. take a listen to more of what the president had to say today. >> when i took office roughry 180,000 troops were deployed in

both wars. by the end of this year that number will be cut in half. make no mistake, it will continue to go down. >> a little bit more information we are getting during a briefing that just wrapped up. chuck todd asked the national security adviser to define the obama doctrine. he said it's not governed by a single ideology, but about reacting to the challenging foreign policy issues they have faced. as you know, tamron, this week has been governed by a lot of foreign policy announcements. the fall of gadhafi yesterday and then of course the announcement of the pull out of troops today. next week the president shifts back to domestic agenda and heads to the west coast to talk about his jobs plan. >> thank you. joining me now is talk show host michael smirconish. let me get your first thoughts here. >> it's great news and i'm in

the midst of a robust conversation. by and large people are elated to hear it. there naysayers who frankly are fearful that anything that takes place on his watch will be reflected as a game is somehow bad. i can't biel with that mind set. overall people are happy to hear it. >> it's an incredible 24 hours. you have gadhafi dragged out of the drain pipe by his own people. they took his and ended that 42-year dictatorship under the president's watch. we are looking at the death of osama bin laden. the future head, if you will, of al qaeda or one of the persons working to lead that terror network. it's an incredible list of things this president has accomplished. his administration has accomplished. you heard kristen welker say it is back to the issue of jobs and the economy.

how will this balance out in his reelection? >> the economy will be paramount, but the things you rattled off are paramount to me. if you look at the front page of the "new york times" and you have the secretary of state reading the riot act to the pakastanis. it bothered me that we paid billions of dollars and i think they used it for defensive purposes for india and now the network that is running rampant. i like what they are doing? pakistan as well. in the end to answer your question, it will still be the economy. i wonder if the republican debates will change. they have been so much about jobs and i think now we are entitled to answers in terms of how would the gop candidates handle the situations that you have articulated? >> it's interesting the debate on november 15th, the foreign policy debate. we will likely hear a lot more and we are waiting on responses

from the different candidates regarding the president's announcements. i think herman cain released a statement and we will have that coming up. it will change the trajectory and types of questions the gop candidates are asked on november 15th. some of them have questionable background when is it comes to the policy. you look at herman cain and michele bachmann, some people raise eyebrow when is they talk about their experience with foreign policy. >> there circumstances and let me tell you what i look for. you rise above whether you are an r, d, or i. for the good of the country, you tip your hat to the commander in chief. in the aftermath of gadhafi where you have elected officials who single out the french and the germans and show no deference or respect to our president. i'm not asking that you carry his water or that you agree on all the issues, but if you are going to be critical, when

things go right, you better be equally prepared to say so. >> whether or not it's the right thing to do, i would consult with commanders that the president is doing is telling the enemy how many troops are you going to bring out and when you are going to bring them out. i don't think that's good strategy. that was herman cain's strategy. >> the president looks since he was running for the office made it clear this was the end game he desired. that's a criticism that is three years old. >> thank you very much. greatly appreciate it. >> have a good weekend. >> more reaction to today's big announcement regarding the end of the war in iraq. we will talk about "the washington post" and later the senator just one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day

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. >> welcome back to "news nation." president obama announcing a complete troop withdrawal by the end of the year out of iraq. a political analyst and contributor to the grio.com. "the washington post." greatly appreciate you joining us. let's talk about how it factors into the debate coming up with foreign policy for the gop candidates and how they handle the situation. so far only herman cain on record here talking about the president's announcement. basically he said whether or not it's the right thing to do, i would consult with commanders. the thing i wouldn't do that the president is doing is telling the enemy how many troops you are going to bring out and when. he said i believe our time there was worth it. that's herman cain there. how does it factor into the reelection campaign for the president and these people who want to take his place in the white house? >> i will be serious to see the

other statements. it's difficult for the president to have said he was going to take out the troops without specifying the number. that's an obvious answer to that. for the president, there is an important component which is he can say it's another promise he made when he was running for office that he kept. he used the word as promised. i think that's a powerful point for the president. on the other hand, not a lot of voters said they will vote on foreign policy this year. it's a small percentage who say it's important and nearly half the country said the economy is going to matter. this may be like we saw with the killing of osama bin laden and give him a temporary boost and enhance his overall standing. it may not change that many minds at the end of the day. >> it's an interesting point when he was running for president and savannah guthrie asked john mccain about this this morning when mccain

referred to senator obama as naive with foreign policy and here you have this laundry list of things he can tout and his administration let the way and we were successful in regarding policy and the war on terror as it was once referred to. they made the point it boiled down to the economy that the president tried to get the jobs bill passed unsuccessfully. last night he said every republican voting on the key portion, billions that would have helped teachers, firefighters and police officers. how does the administration at least bring this to the table to the american people and allow it to be a part of why they would reelect him? >> it's important that everybody knows it comes down to the economy. we had this conversation many times. every poll and survey and in terms of public opinion, we are looking at the economy. foreign policy has been off the radar. iraq and troop withdrawal is important, but at the end of the day, it is economy.

the president if he has gone on the bus tours and used the bully bull pit to emphasize two things. i'm on it with the economy and part of that is we have a jobs bill. the second part is obstructionism. the gop every step of the way, they vote everything down. even bits and pieces that are gop friendly. what can we do? we are trying to get a handle on the economy and move things ahead. we are trying to put people back to work. we are trying to really get things going on the job and the economic front and we have so many opponents on the other side. the president has turned it back around with harry truman. >> we greatly appreciate it and will be talking with you both. much more ahead. thank you. coming up, we will get the latest from libya and the fight over gadhafi's body.

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>> welcome back to "news nation." more breaking news regarding the president's jobs bill. democrats have provided a break down of the bill they plan to bring to the floor the week of october 31st. this is the next piece of the president's jobs bill and they are expecting republicans to reject it as more stimulus funding paid for by taxpayers and they will not support it. this is the expectation anyway.

this is what we saw last night. the president saying that every republican stood against a portion of his jobs bill that he said would help teachers and firefighters as well as police officers. the next piece of the president's jobs bill that will go before the senate floor, 50 billion for infrastructure and 10 billion for infrastructure. they attempt to get at least portions on the floor. the other is out of libya and the interim government plans to declare the plan to liberate libya in benghazi on saturday. we have the latest in misrata. why is his burial being delayed? >> we believe that there two main reasons. the first is that the interim

government wants to make sure that all the libyan people believe that gadhafi is indeed dead. in fact, they have made it possible for the public to see his body. we have come back from that commercial cold storage and saw the body ourselves. there were a number of very well organized people moving in and out of the room that wasn't large. people taking a lot of pictures. i wouldn't describe it -- people wanting to see the man who they feared. how he died and the circumstances of which he was killed. there has been concern expressed and there may be an attempt on the part of the interim government to show that they are not just a bunch of thugs and they are trying to follow a certain standard here. tamron? >> the latest out of libya and the latest on president obama's big announcement about the war in iraq will be over by the end

of the year. i will get reaction from richard smith and bob casey will join us live. [ male announcer ] what if we told you that cadillac

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the united states is moving forward from a position of strength. the wrong war in iraq will come to an end by the end of this year. the transition in afghanistan is moving forward and our troops are finally coming home. >> we continue to follow the breaking news president obama announcing that troops will come home from iraq by the end of the year. our foreign correspond ept, thanks for joining us here. let's talk about the bigger picture. incredible. the situation in libya and now this announcement in iraq. secretary of state hillary clinton had strong words for pakistan and the president referring to afghanistan and the number of troops in afghanistan and iraq reduced by half since

he has been in the white house. >> it is a changing landscape in the mideast. if you want to take a step back for a second, imagine the life of an iraqi 21 years old. from 1990 to 2011 has known nothing but u.s. military involvement and nothing but war and sanctions. president obama's announcement really can be the beginning of a new era for iraqi citizens. in the context of what is happening in the region, you could have four new democracies, it's a little premature, but in theory they can be taking root between tunisia and egypt and iraq. that's something that could have implications for the world over. >> that are would be the ideal scenario that you have critics of the president, many of them republican members of congress who say this is not the right thing. iraq is too fragile and too weak and this could turn into a far worse situation in that country than when we first invaded it.

how does iraq recover and become a stronger nation that is not dependent upon the united states? >> that's a good question and over the course of nine years, it has been a huge cost for americans, what happened in iraq. it's a huge cost for iraqis. as many as 100,000 killed as a result of this violence. the governments supported by the u.s., not necessarily the most credible people. the people don't have strong confidence in their own institutions. the withdrawal of the u.s. and perhaps a softer engagement could perhaps mean that the iraqi people will have to take more accountability and support for their own destiny. >> let me play the comments made regarding obviously the tumultuous situation in that part of the region. let's play it. >> you can't keep snakes in the back yard and expect them only

to bite your neighbors. eventually they turn on whoever has them in the back yard. >> is referring to the ha canny network. there was an informal meeting and she is warning pakistan you can't have this group and believe they will only turn on others. >> exactly. she is warning that the pakistani government you are playing with fire. these networks that exist, you may be using them now and benefiting for them now in the sense that they are engaged against americans and afghanistany forces, but at the end of the day, they turn on you. if they do, that poses a problem for the government. >> iran and the big breaking news a couple of weeks ago with the assassination on u.s. soil and one that iran and the president mocked saying we made this story up. what is likely to be the response from iran? >> iran is one of the countries that will benefit. they want close relations and

iraq is a majority population and so too is iran. a great degree of similarities. they are going to be closer relations between the two. >> great concern for the u.s. >> particularly. from any of the region. saudi arabia as well. iran is going to have a greater influence in iraq and the key is to maintain engagement from soft power. it has to remain engaged to kind of maintain that balance of power in the region. >> thank you. let's bring in chief pentagon correspondent; jim miklaszewski. highway quickly all of this can happen. >> the current number on the ground is 39 to 40,000. they will have to be out by the end of the year frankly. the u.s. military has been well-prepared to proceed on their own time table to get the troops out. even short of agreement between the iraqis and the united

states. they already had a plan in place to get the troops out. that won't be a problem. >> let's take about the president who did not mention this in his remarks. i want to hear what's being said regarding the fact that the u.s. perhaps was willing to negotiate, leaving more troops on the ground through december 31st, however iraq wanted or would not give immunity from prosecution and without that guarantee, it was a no go. what do we know was happening behind the scenes? >> according to military officials we talked to, the prime minister of iraq told the u.s. late last week it didn't look like he would be able to convince the parliament to vote to grant immunity to those american forces remaining in iraq. that would have been a non-starter. american troops, maybe about 120 or 140 that will remain inside to work inside the embassy will

work under diplomatic immunity. that's not a problem. even though there would have been about 3,000 to 5,000 at most american troops left behind under what they were looking at as a possible negotiated agreement, that's a relatively small number and could have been handled by the u.s. military. again, without that immunity, it wasn't going to happen. >> thank you very much. let me bring in army colonel jack jacobs. let me get your thoughts here. >> the big winner here is al-sadr. he was making it impossible to get consensus in the parliament. he is the winner here. >> some would argue that the troops are coming home. >> that's the other side. >> you are the colonel. they are coming home for the

holidays and this negotiated process with immunity was several thousand. >> the president of the united states comes off nicely here as well. for the people who whom he said elect me and i will get them out of iraq, he's a hero. for the people who would like to see them stay, it's clear they were not going to stay and it's not his fault. he looks like a tough guy saying we are not leaving our guys here. >> those people who want them to stay, i have not heard consensus on what they want them to do there. >> the troops supposedly were going to be there to continue to train and conduct special operations, but that was going to peter out in any case. the guy who looks powerful here as a result of demanding that the united states leave because he's not going to get immunity is al sadr and the story i believe is just beginning. >> let's look at the numbers

here again and the cost of the war. $712 billion. 39,000 troops on the ground there now. the total number of u.s. military killed in this war, 4,469. wounded, 30,000 plus. >> more actually. >> the countless loss of when you look at iraqi citizens who were caught up in this as well. when you look back at this and process what we have witnessed and what this nation participated in this that country, do you say it's a success? >> the objective was to get rid of saddam hussein and it was a success at enormous cost. we were talking about this on the air when people were saying it may be a civil war. of course it's a civil war. that's what got precipitate and here we are years later. two things came in with the cost you are talking about in terms of money and people.

we ignored afghanistan. >> it was the forgotten war. you still have members of the bush administration and books that have come out as of late who defend the decision and the ground at which this nation went into iraq. >> there lots of military people who try to do something and know what your objective is and make it clear and make sure you have enough resources to accomplish it. if you are not prepared, don't start in the first place. >> sounds like common sense beyond military advice. >> it's good to think of in daily lives and business too. >> thank you very much. let me bring in bob casey of pennsylvania on the senate foreign relations committee and thank you for joining us. when did you first receive confirmation that the president was going to make this announcement today? >> just heard it as we were traveling through pennsylvania. it's a significant announcement. we all knew we would be drawing

down substantially, but this would be more significant. i think it's a decision i support. it's a good day for the american people that we can fully transition. we are thinking about those who gave their lives and their families. we lost 197 pennsylvanians killed in action in iraq. we are thinking of them and their families as well as those who were wounded. >> people wondered were the lives lost in vain? >> that's going to be an ongoing debate, but the most important thing that we do now is to close this chapter and make sure that we learned from mistakes and learned from our history so that we don't repeat the same mistake when is it comes to a conflict anywhere. even more urgently in afghanistan. >> let me make this statement regarding the troops and

withdrawing for iraq. he said i respectfully disagree with president obama. i feel all we have worked for, fought for and sacrificed is very much in jeopardy by today's announcement. i hope i am wrong and the president is right, but i fear this set in motion events that come back to haunt our country. your reaction to senator graham? >> i have a different view in terms of the overall perspective. but there things we have to be very vigilant about. 1 sth iranian regime. we saw in the last couple of days how aggressive the regime will be in the united states. with a plot to assassinate an ambassador in the region and in places like iraq ever more so. we have to be vigilant about the intentions and the actions of the regime. >> bob casey, thank you so much for joining us. you are traveling across the stalt a

state and it's a pressure to have you on. thank you for making time. >> thank you. >> we will talk with joel ruben regarding the decision to pull troops out of iraq by the end of the year. news nation is back in three. [ male announcer ] take the fixodent 12 hour hold challenge. ♪ apply fixodent once, and it holds all day. ♪ take the fixodent 12 hour hold challenge. guaranteed, or your money back. ♪

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oncology and geriatrics. >> coming up at the top of the hour, reaction to the president's surprise announcement of a complete withdrawal of forces from iraq. nearly nine years after the first shots were fired, america's bravest men and women told they will be home for the holidays. back to tamron. >> thank you, martin and more reaction to the president's announcement. let me bring in richard smith, the vice chair of vote vets.org. thanks for making time. you said the statement and reaction to this is this was the president's only choice that he could make. the only move the president could make. why do you say that? >> of course the united states agrees to the forces agreement that designated this line and also there is the militia and what not that continue fighting and you can escalate that if we were to stay. there is really no benefit for us sticking around and remaining

problems for the iraqi people. there is no reason to keep american soldiers in violation of the forces in iraq to keep fighting the militia. >> he said this was a promise he made to the american people and he is keeping. does that hold weight with you? >> absolutely, tamron. the end of the iraq war is not lost on an organization composed of veterans and all of us have had friends injured or killed in iraq. we are really happy about this decision today. >> it goes on to say this was not an easy operation that president obama has done so first. now bringing all of the troops home. we heard that the president used the phrase the troops will be home for the holidays. what reaction have you heard from so many who have gone over and fought for this country. the millions who have fought for the country. >> they are happy about the decision and most of all what my

veteran friends and the organization would like the american people to know is the war is ending, but for those who fought, the hundreds of thousands, it's not over yet. when they come home over the next several years and decades, we need to take care of them through the department of veterans affairs and programs and keep the promise that america made to them. >> absolutely. thank you so much for joining us richard smith, vice chairman of vote vets.org. >> joel ruben, thanks for coming on again with us today. you heard richard smith say this was the only choice the president could make with the status. under the bush administration and given the situation on the ground that the troops will be left behind and have no immunity here and this was the move the president had to make at this time. >> it really is. the president had to make this

smart and strategic move. it advances our wishes and fulfills the president's promise to the american people. we could not leave troops without immunity. that was the recent debate. the agreement was made in the bush administration to withdraw troops by the end of this year and at the request of the iraqis, the troops are going home and this is a good thing. >> a couple of statements and i want to read this. this was the chairman of the house armed services. congressman howard mckeon. i remain concerned that the full withdrawal will make that road tougher than it needs to be, the road to recovery. multiple experts testified that the iraqis lack important capacities in their ability to maintain their internal stability and integrity. the shortcomings could reverse the hard work and sacrifice both endured to build a free iraq. that is congressman howard keon, chairman of the house arms

services. what do you say to that chairman? >> the chairman is wanting to keep troops in iraq relatively indefinitely. that view is not 1 that is going to bring security and stability to iraq. there is a plan in place. the iraqis want to control their own country. they believe they can. they will get support from the u.s. in terms of weapons sales and diplomatic agreements and discussions and relationships going forward. they feel ready and we should respect that. >> just got another statement from mitt romney. he swings hard at the president in this reaction. president obama's astonishing failure to secure an orderly transition put at risk the victories that were won through blood and sacrifice of thousands of american men and women. the unavoidable question is whether the decision was the result of a naked political calculation or simply cheer inept tud and negotiations with

the iraqi government. this is mitt romney's statement just coming in. what was the failure to secure an orderly transition? what could he be talking about? >> it's not clear to me. this is a disrespectful tone being given by mitt romney provided that he even understands the situation on the ground as well as commanders and our troops and diplomats. he clearly doesn't. the administration is working closely with the iraqi government and they have an agreement. there has been an orderly drawdown. this is an agreement of two countries that will look at each other after the u.s. leaves as equals. this is a good thing. i'm not sure where he is coming from. >> thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate your time. another big day we have you on. it's an incredible 24 hours. coming up, it's your turn. we want to hear from you. do you agree with the president's decision to withdraw all u.s. troops from iraq by the end of this year? we will let you weigh in and we will tell you how, next.

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>> welcome back. some of the stories we are following, it is president obama announcing the complete withdrawal of u.s. troops from iraq by the end of the year. the united states will maintain a strong and enduring relationship with a self-reliant iraq in the days ahead of the mass withdrawal. under 40,000 troops are in iraq. we want to hear from you. do you support the president's decision to remove all troops from iraq by the end of the year? go to newsnation.msnbc.com. this is a major announcement only two hours ago. have a great weekend. martin bashir is up next. [ male announcer ] nature valley

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