pulled from beneath the rubble in turkey. they hope more people can be found alive after the massive earthquake. >> can you call them birther buddies. he and donald trump discussed the authenticity of the president's birth certificate. perry said he is not sure the birth certificate is real. will it help him get ready of romney and cain in the polls? gut check, fined thousands of dollars for calling his wife to let her know he was okay after being injured on the field. following president obama's new plan to deal with the housing crisis that continues to drag down this economy. the president is headed to nevada to sell his program to help homeowners refinance mortgages and keep folks in

their homes. the strategy is to bypass by using a series of executive orders to boost the economy. in nevada alone, 80% of home owners are right now under water. nationally the number are 25%. cnbc covers the housing market for us. 15 or 25% in this nation under water and 80% in one state. how does the president's plan help? >> it helps those who are under water owing more through a refinance. a lot were shot out of the refinance market because they didn't have equity in their homes. this is an expansion of a current refi program. you must have a fannie mae or

freddie mac loan and must be current on your payments for at least six months. this is not targeting those facing foreclosure, but it could help some folks who are perhaps on the edge. perhaps thinking that a couple of months from now they are not going to be able to keep paying the high rates. there a lot of things you have to qualify for, number one being current on your payments. >> on andrea mitchell reports, shawn donovan was on and said the administration could not say how many homeowners this program will actually help. is that of a concern? >> it's a big concern. i saw him asked a couple of times and he was not able to put a number on it. analysts put it between 1.5 to potentially two million borrowers. there six million borrowers who are behind on their mortgages or

facing foreclosure and that does not include all the millions of borrowers who lost their homes and millions in foreclosure and need to be sold off into the market. this is not about that. this is for borrowers who are current on their payments and don't qualify for refinances because they are under water on mortgages. that is a lot of americans. about 11 million nationally under water. that is homeowners with a mortgage. we want to make sure. not every homeowner has a mortgage. >> unless the market recovers in some way, we will see a drag on the overall recovery for the economy. there was an existing program in place by the administration to help people who were on the verge or if not at the foreclosure point. as many analysts indicated, there was not much dent in helping the crisis. what went wrong with the program? >> what i was talking about was

the existing finance program for current borrowers, the cap was at 125%. that meant you could have negative 25% equity in your home or owe 25% more than your home was currently worth. that was a problem for some folks and home prices have fallen dramatically and people are 50% under water. this takes the cap off. you can be as far under water as you want and still qualify. when you talk about wider programs that the obama administration tried, the modification program is a big that fell flat. they originally said they were going to be spending $50 billion to help millions to modify loans and they barely spent 3.5 to $4 billion. that has been a lack luster program and millions going into foreclosure. >> thank you very much for breaking it all down. we will certainly bring the

presidential remarks from nevada when he starts up. now to the frantic search in turkey for survivors. at least five survivors have been pulled from the rubble including a 25-year-old teacher. she was saved after her fiance raced 60 miles to find her, tracked her down where she was having lunch and convinced the team to dig through the concrete pile where the restaurant once stood. we have surveillance just in. it shows people pouring into the streets. it toppled nearly 1 then then buildings and at least 260 people are confirmed dead. we talk about the rescues including the teacher. what else are you hearing on the ground in. >> they are dramatic rescues, tamron. we are here in one of the hardest hit communities and over

100 people here alone were killed. caught in that rubble and pulled out from the rubble today. dramatic stories of some people being rescued. they are up against a lot of challenges here. they have very little equipment and local teams, but not a lot of international support. it is a remote area. it's near the iranian border. they are also dealing with cold temperatures at night near freezing and mountains of concrete and twisted steel rods that have trapped the people. we have seen dramatic rescue attempts today where rescuers are focussing on collapsed buildings. one that we say said said to be six stories high at one point. businesses on the ground floor, but also served as homes for

many families. they were hoping that they might find survivors in there, but so far we have not heard back. in nearby vaughn, it's the same story. rescues and in all, more than 270 people killed so far. they are trying to provide shelter for the many people left out of their homes because they are destroyed or too scared to go back in. we are feeling tremors as the day goes on. small tremors here and in all more than 200 here today. tamron? >> live for us in turkey, thank you. developing right now, the defense team in the manslaughter trial of michael jackson's doctor could begin calling their first witnesses at any time. that's the prosecution's star witness that just wrapped up. the prosecution rested its case. it was the fourth day he testified about the effects of propofol on the and how hard it was to tell how the sedative

affected his system. they even tried to discredit him. >> you understand that dr. murray is on trial for his life. is it opinion or isn't it? >> it is my opinion that that's what's happened. that's correct. >> would you be at all surprised that other medical experts would disagree with you? >> the experts include defense witness star doctor they called in, paul wide who is a friend of dr. schaffer and he is expected to say that michael jackson took another fatal dose. there is already drama. he faces a hearing for calling the prosecutor a scum bag in front of reporters. criminal defense attorney, we have two experts with an

adversarial relationship and boils down to who the jury decides is credible and who they believe. >> that's correct. when you have these experts who actually have personal animosity it can be confusing for the jury. as a consequence, they have to figure it out and try to figure out who is being biased and who is personally involved in this. when a situation like this occurs, that can play better for the defense if they can offer good solid testimony that goes to the heard of what the professionals have to say. they have different opinions about it. that hurts the prosecution. >> we saw the defense attorneys really go after schaffer and really pushing him hard on whether his analysis of the evidence came to an opinion or a fact and he had to say this is my opinion of what happened with

michael jackson absolutely. the expert can only give an opinion based on facts given to him at the time. another will see the same set of facts and draw a different opinion. if it is sound enough and be something they it make a decision about. they may come out with another expert and when to rebut that and the experts against the prosecution. this is particularly important because we are talking about a drug and one or more drugs that in combination could have caused the death and the question is did the doctors given this medication cause the death and all of this done in combination. the jury will have to decide that question. they are resting on the fact that more than one drug was in his system and one or more could

have caused it. >> we saw this in the casey anthony trial. we know they are not medical professionals to our knowledge. determining who is credible. they are being credible and both sides as experts. >> absolutely. this is a challenge. we have to look at who has an interest and a bias and a personal animosity that may color a particular view. both are being paid. you know they are both in it sort of for the money. if they can't figure it out, it seem that is the defense gets the benefit of that and at the end of the day, you are talking about a serious homicide and you have to look to see whether or not this doctor engaged in the homicide. if you can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, you have to say he is not guilty.

that may be difficult for the vast public to accept. that might be the case when the experts themselves. the defense has more items to put up and in fact there is another question about the viability or the quality of the police investigation. do they gather the material necessary? if they did not, that will be another for the jury to consider with the value of the prosecution's case. >> thank you, john for your time. rick perry questions whether president obama's birth certificate is authentic. romney's camp said perry is desperate and willing to take cheap shots. is this birth certificate talk an example of it? bad call. a steeler is hit with a $10,000 fine after he called his wife to her he was okay after he suffered a near concussion. wiki leaks won't be giving any secrets at least for a while.

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has the national football league made a bad call? they fined troy pal mallu $10,000 for making a cell phone call to his wife from the sidelines during the game. he wanted to let his wife know he was okay with leaving the game after concussion-like symptoms. michael smerconish is either an eagles or a steelers fan. >> eagles! >> i knew it was of them, but none the less. $10,000 for calling his wife. the nfl had a lot of pr disasters. september 11 where they would

only allow players to wear licensed paraphernalia marking the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. is this a bad pr move? >> it might be a bad pr move, but i think it's the right move. i think they made the right call. $10,000 sounds heavy, but i thought like you that this was insensitive because it was a concussion. they had a lot of problems with concussions. his wife probably wanted to know how he was doing. the more i read the more i came to understand the nfl side of this. they have a protocol that is usually followed by the teams so that family members can be alerted that they are okay. this really i think is about keeping technology off the sideline so there is not a competitive advantage for a team. you remember with the patriots, i think that's what this is about. they don't want to set a precedent where somebody gets a slapped wrist.

>> the steelers coach said it came as a surprise. he had a history of concussion-like symptoms in the past and his wife was concerned. michael, you are close to your family. i don't want to ask how many times you talk to your wife at work, but if you had an injury wouldn't you call and say i'm okay? i don't get this. i really don't. >> this is a different work environment. you can call uncle charlie, right? >> uncle henry. >> you can do that during a commercial break and because there is no rule that would say msnbc doesn't allow to you make a call. >> why fine him? just tell him not to do it again. why fine him? >> how about $1,000 or $5,000 instead of $10,000. >> how about nothing? >> i can't go with nothing. you got me a grand. take the deal. >> i will monitor your phone

records and see how often you call mrs. smerconish. we will see what people have to say online. >> now to the race for 2012. a serious drop in the polls and is rick perry jumping on the birther bandwagon or what's left of it. this past sunday perry suggested he was not sure if president obama's birth certificate was legit. when asked to clarify he said i don't have a definitive answer because he's never seen my birth certificate. parade said but you have seen his. to which perry replied i don't know, have i? >> politics editor for the "new york times," thank you for your time. >> glad to be here. let's start with the motivation here. this is an interview he was asked about and it's easy to back away. why didn't he? >> you know, he used the word towards the end that this was distractive.

i don't know what distractive means, but put aside the pub stance for a moment. in political terms, this is a real distraction for rick perry. this is a moment when he is trying to reintroduce himself after a series of bad debates and he is about to introduce a new tax plan tomorrow and go up with advertising and introducing himself to voters on his terms. to get into this now seems extremely curious and ill-advised. >> he has a laundry list of substantive ideas he would like to present. when he was asked to clarify, his opportunity to make this distraction go away or make it a nonissue, he said that i don't have a definitive answer because he's never seen my birth certificate. joe scarborough among others questioned -- how do i put this? they questioned his intellect level. this is something that you see almost always when joe talks

about rick perry. this doesn't help make his case that he is able to articulate his way through tough questions and find a way to stay on message. >> i think there lots of way of probably taking that question and turning it to something that becomes less of a distraction. less of a problem for you. it's an opening if nothing else to say look, the problem i have with president obama is not about where he was or was not born, it's with the policies he is pursuing and his jobs record and with any number of other ways in which he might have engaged the question. i agree. it's curious and assuming the transcript of the interview is correct, i don't think it was probably rick perry's finest moment. >> this is perry with donald trump, one of many who they are seeking some kind of approval or endorsement from donald trump in the conversation. perry points to trump and said he also doesn't believe this as

if to look for cover with donald trump. how does that help him? >> you would have thought his moment had come and gone in the campaign, but he keeps turning back up again. clearly there is a segment of the republican electorate and the conservative base that responds well to this kind of thing. i guess rick perry like many of his competitors for the republican nomination this time can't quite resist playing with donald trump a little bit. but you know this is dangerous territory, the whole birther thing. it would seem to have been put to rest a long time ago, but getting into it now, we are talking about that and not something else. it's more to his political benefit. >> for the record, we reached out to donald trump's office. this is all an account given by rick perry. we will see what happens regarding that conversation.

we appreciate your time. >> glad to be here. >> blue dog democrat dennis cardoza is tired of partisan politics and won't seek another term in office. he is not leaving without taking parting shots, even at the president. plus -- >> it sounds to me like a bit of an excuse to go out there and have a lovely time killing sharks. >> shark hunt. crews are trolling the shores and some are concerned about taking revenge on an endangered species. why do we have aflac...

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now on "news nation," the transitional government calls for law as the country tries to rebuild after the death of gadhafi. vanished, a 5-year-old girl disappear and her family is desperate for answers. we will get the latest on the investigation. we will talk with a blue dog and he won't seek reelection. more now on the top story, the obama administration comes up with a proposal to help homeowners under water. the foreclosure specialist. thank you for your time. >> my pleasure. >> we know the president is in

nevada, but in nevada alone, 80% of homeowners are under water. we know nationally a 25% of homeowners are under water. what kind of help do the people need at this point. >> obviously being under water is a problem. the other part of the problem with the program addressing it is 75% of the folks were under water and paying above market interest rates now. rather than being able to lower the principal that reached a lot of resistance, we are lowering the interest rate with the program to hopefully provide them a similar type of savings. >> millions need the help, but is it to assume most people will get it? >> i don't know about that. i would have to say probably no. i would give it an a for effort because it's one of the first that rewards positive behavior. >> what do you mean? >> they have to be current in their mortgage unlike the

modifications that require you to be in default. this is the catch 22 that might put a lot of people out of the running for qualifying. millions have been told if you want a modification you need to default and they did that and didn't get the modification and now that they defaulted they won't qualify, but they address that negative equity. the original refinance program was dead out of the gate with the 125% negative equity cap. in the hardest hit state where is 50% are, people are 150 or 200% under water. >> that is unbelievable. with that said, we know if the housing market doesn't recover, that means the overall economy won't recover here. at this point what do you see as the true evaluation and analysis of where the housing market stands even before the plan that the president will unveil. she bypassing congress by the way to do this. he feels they are holding up efforts to get something done for the american people.

>> right. here's the problem with a program like this. it addresses some of the obstacles and addresses the equity and appraisals and the cost and warranties. it does not address the prepayment risk that investors take when there is a refinance like that. there is a vow that they did that will cost investors about $15 billion to agree to the refinances. as we know, unless this is a touched mortgage, they don't have to agree to do this. i would be surprised if they lot of them agree. unless we fix the negative equity problem, we will refinance the folks and they will be in lower interest rates and fast forward a year or two from now, they will say look, i'm still under water and we may see the did you faults again. >> thank you very much for your time and should you take a look at it. thank you. back to another big story. libya started the new chapter in history. one day after the transitional

leader is declared the country liberated and declared islamic law will be the basis of the legislation. existing laws will be null fid if they contradict the teachings of islam. time magazine deputy bobby gauch. thank you for your time. moammar gadhafi's body still has not been buried. in libya there so many rumors that you have to see for yourself. people don't have confidence in the reports. the statement from the leadership and transitional council that the law will be the basis of legislation. what does it mean? >> it doesn't have to mean that libya is going in the direction of afghanistan under the taliban. almost every muslim country, many of which we have good relations with have another element or another in the legal systems. whether it's an inheritance in

the systems or the penal laws. these are all friends of the united states and yet they have the statutes in the books. it covers all kinds of things. there is a tendency to focus on the narrow things and chopping off the hands of a thief. >> there is also the assumption by some, you had the vote in oklahoma to make it unlawful to have the law as part of the constitution that protects us from that, nevertheless. people think this is exactly the mistakes we feel the obama administration made in getting involved because this will be a country run by extremists. >> that's the ignorance. muslims have a better idea of their own religious laws. understand that in libya for 42 years they had gadhafi law which is no law at all.

as they struggle to find structures, it is automatic and natural they will reach to their religion to see if there guidelines there. we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they choose to practice. >> let's move on to tunisia. historic scene there where people were able to vote. you have this organization and this party who fear that this party will sweep the elections and have great influence. they are seen by some as being extremists. >> they are not extremists and they are what you call moderate. a fairly modern and quite western -- >> they have been banned, correct? >> by the dictator who banned plenty of other things. the idea of secularism in all these countries has been attached to also the dictatorship. people are trying to break them aside and see if they can create secular pears without dictatorship. until that happens, people are going to vote with what they are

familiar. this is a party that was with opposition for a long time. it is a party that again, these are not the taliban. these are very different kinds of islamists. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. the family of a missing 5-year-old girl is marching to the capital of arizona today in hopes of bringing attention to her case. her name is jesse shockly who disappeared october 11th from home in glendale, arizona while three siblings were playing outside. police believe she wandered out where they believe she was kidnapped. her mother is asking that her little girl not be forgotten. >> all i ask is that you give my family a fair shot and focus on jesse. my daughter is gone. i don't know where to begin looking. please know i'm out here. i care. i want my child home. >> jesse's grandmother said authorities removed her three siblings in the home and put them in foster care, but they

won't say why. former fbi profiler clint van vandt, this child has been missing the same amount of time lisa irwin has been missing. why so much attention for one case and so little with the other situation 12 r? they said the family is unwilling to cooperate here. they have no leads. what do you make of the case and especially the lack of attention. this is a missing child. >> the case we have been following for three weeks in kansas city and you have supposed evidence of a kidnapper going into the house in the middle of the night and carry the 10-month-old child away. in this case at best case scenario she wandered out of the house or someone took her away. the challenge for authorities is that this missing girl's mother did five years for child abuse. she has a history of beating her

children. one of the children said she used an electric cord to beat her children until they had blood welts on them. the authorities have kind of focused in on the mother and the father is still in jail for another crime. the bottom line is, this is a missing child. whatever happened to her, we have to expand every resource we have to find out. >> we know also in the disappearance of lisa irwin, things about her mother's background. a friend said she has a dark past and admits to leaving her children at home. it is not about the parent, it is about the child. i have to be honest and there people out there and folks have been quoted on line and they believe it boils down to race. a story about a missing little white child carries more weight. you are an fbi analyst and you covered hundreds if not

thousands of cases of missing children. do you see a difference or disparity in the way the cases of treated? >> having worked the cases as an fbi agent and knowing police officers, we don't care if a child is black, white, yellow or green. the bottom line is there is a child missing. you will find agents and officers working 24 hours a day trying to find out what happened to a young baby. the difference comes sometimes into what's the media going to pick up and how many missing children stories can you run? you and i know that 950,000 people have reported missing every year. most of them come home. some are run aways and throw aways and the media grabs on to it because it's a story they think the public will care about. as far as i'm concerned, every child that goes missing, we should flash his or her face saying this child is missing like we are doing right here. what can we do to bring it back.

television even though it's in color, it should be color blind when it comes to children. >> thank you so much for your powerful words and as you pointed out, it doesn't matter. this is a child that is missing whether she is an 11-month-old baby or 5-year-old girl. they are all important and should be. thank you very much. >> every one of them. >> the australia jan government hired private helicopters to scour waters for sharks following the 30 deadly shark attack in two months. the family of the latest victim, florida native thomas wainwright was passionate about fishing and scuba diving. >> doing what he was doing it's a risk you take. it was a wrong place at the wrong time. >> he would never let something like that stop him from doing something he loved. >> the officers are under a hunt and kill order for the great white stark they hope to find that is responsible for his death. they are criticizing this kill order saying it will just lead

to a shark massacre. joining me now is the director of the florida program for shark research. thank you for joining us. how would you know if you had? this is essentially an excuse or opportunity for people to kill sharks. what's your response to that? it's a misguided attempt at a safety measure. the chance of you identifying and taching the culprit in this current attack is slim to none and the chances of it being a single shark involved is there. >> why do this hunt and kill order then? >> that's a good question. perhaps at some level it's a

revenge killing and i think people are actually believing it will make it a safer place. the sharks are migratory animals that move 40 or 50 miles in a day. the incidents are probably long gone in an attempt to kill the replacements. >> the director for a shark researcher, the australian government is hiring the helicopters to scour the waters and see what happens. thank you for your insight. >> there is a lot going on on her own. there were things we thought you should know. the group's founder said it is going to stop publishing and focus on raising money. they blocked handling their financial transactions and lady libertiy is getting a few more eyes. five web cameras are being attached to the torch for the 125th anniversary.

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coming up at the top of the hour, rick perry spends the weekend taking on his fellow republicans, the president and his critics with both barrels blazing. plus, herman cain is pro life, but not in some circumstances that makes him pro choice, right? not exactly. we will try to clear up mr. cain's stance on the issues just ahead. >> thanks, martin. dennis cardoza is speaking out about retirement and the scathing words he had for president obama on thursday. the blue dog democrat announced he would not seek reelection and argued the obama administration would not do enough to fix the housing economy.

they had redistricting in california. >> you decided not to seek reelection and had harsh words for the administration and advice if you will for voters out there. why are you leaving and why did you decide to go out? i guess with a blast. >> i thought it was important that you only get one chance to say goodbye. i really felt it was important after being here ten years to say what was on my mind. frankly there were two main messages i wanted to leave. the first is that administration has not done an adequate job dealing with foreclosure in america. crushing the economy and my constituents and 70% are under water in mortgages and 30% have lost their homes. this is a devastating crisis and i don't believe the administration acted with

adequate urgency. the second thing i wanted to send a message about is the moderates i have been part of got devastated in the last election. they rarely get listened to by the media. the blue dogs i participated in have been talking about the deficit for 15 years and the media very rarely focused on it. now we are in a crisis and we have been talking about it for a long, long time. had we been able to get the attention, we may have been able to overt the crisis. >> too many americans are losing faith in the government and democracy for the country to change course. voters must punish extreme partisanship and rhetoric when they cast their ballot. >> that's right. >> were you directing that at the obama administration or republicans? >> a lot of that was at the screeching that i hear coming from the tea party. anybody who pounds the podium

from the far left or far right and tries to make a show of politics. >> how do you dare make compromise no longer a naughty or bad word? everybody thinks their idea will work. >> when you reach out the olive branch, the voters can see that. they need to pay attention to who is pulling back and who says no before the speech is even done. >> who are is saying no before? >> often times i heard eric kantor say no before the president got done talking the other night. those kinds of folks are not in my opinion moving the dialogue forward. that's one example. >> thank you so much for your time. we great aly appreciate it. >> thanks for inviting me. >> in the meantime, jennifer lopez breaks down during a concert and leaves the stage and we are seeing a different side of steve jobs. let's get the scoop from

today.com's courtney haslet. we are talking about jennifer. >> she performed in connecticut over the weekend. a lot of people talking about her performance of a love song where she broke down in tears and got choked up. there were these basically body doubles that looked like her ex-boyfriend, chris judd and ben affleck. it was an emotional moment for her. this divorce is unlike a past break up. they have children and it's raw. she has been out and about, but it still hurts. she ran off the stage crying achl lot of bus out of an interview here about steve jobs. the book by walter isaacson and that's in stores and available now. to tee that up they had sound

from steve jobs himself as well in 60 minutes. we got to learn a little bit more about this guy and was he a good guy and specifically they discussed was he a good manager or was he kind of a mean manager? take a look. >> he was not the world's greatest manager. in fact he could have been one of the world's worst managers. she was always up ending things and throwing things into turmoil. this made great products, but it didn't make for great management style. >> for you took away anything from the 60 minutes interview, this book is not just a glowing profile of steve jobs and how fantastic he was and his vision was totally fantastic. i don't think anyone can disagree. he was not always good to people in restaurants and parked in handicapped spaces. i think multidimensional portrait is painted in the book and i think a lot of people even though they have a lot of information will be rushing out

to read it. >> i just bought it. >> right there. >> thank you very much, courtney. an interesting list of things. logon to scoop.today.com. be a fan on facebook. check courtney out on twitter. gut check is up next.

> time for "news nation" gut check. the nfl fined troy palamalu $10,000 for making a cell phone call to his wife from the sidelines a week ago. he wanted his wife to know he was okay after leaving the game with concussion-like symptoms. what does your gut you? michael smerconish said he should have been fined at least $1,000. that was unfair? go to cast your vote. that does it for this edition of

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