that does it for us tonight. thank you for joining us. we will see you again tomorrow night. now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. have a good one. walter isaacson is here to talk about his fascinating new biography of steve job and we will find out when he is writing his biography of herman cain. >> got a number? >> 9-9-9. >> this is mitt romney calling. it really is. >> see if he has an answering machine or not. >> mitt romney calls but republicans don't answer. >> it is an answering machine. >> it is the anyone but romney day. >> the stall may be an eclipse. >> accusations of flip flopping. >> he takes one position one time, another position another time. >> i'm sorry if i created confusion. >> romney said he is 110% behind kasich's -- >> he said he fully supported it.

>> i fully support the governor kasich's i think it is called question two in ohio. >> one day after he said he didn't have a position, it plays in to flip flop. >> the republicans have had a whiplash on this. >> herman cain and rick perry are still learning how to spin. >> governor kaine and rick perry don't have a plan or a vision. >> hocus-pocus. >> they sound like idiots they are all alike. they sound like numb skulls. >> a firing squad. >> all of this looneyness throughout. cain leading the republican presidential field out right. >> the corporate lumbering newt gingrich. >> what's wrong with your party? >> class warfare, republican style. >> more americans say that republicans favor the wealthy. >> they are going to have in the anchor of this tax plan around their neck. >> the corporate tax rate. >> let me show you how ridiculous you are. check out this smile.

yeah, 9-9-9. >> i'm not lawrence on donnell but on this show you have the last word. >> memo to the republican field, you are running for president of the united states, of america. start acting like it. stop proposing nonsense tax plans that won't work. stop making ridiculous attention-getting ads that might be minimumly acceptable if you were running for county supervisor in oklahoma. stop saying you are going to build a u.s./mexico border fence you know perfectly well you are not going to build. give the gop electorate and the american people some credit. they want solutions. you are providing comedy. this is a serious time. it requires serious leaders. just stop -- i can't.

i can't do this. i have a confession to make. every word you just heard i plajer ietdsed. i didn't lift it from some smart obscure lefty blogger. i'd never get away with that with this audience. i stole the it from a place i know you would never look, right in here, new york post. the op ed page. right there. yep, it's a conservative newspaper to put it mildly and a conservative op ed page. everything i just with read was with written by john pahoritz. the conservative columnist. he is more thoughtful than most conservative doll lumist and that's why i read this but this is the first time i've stolen from him. word for word stolen and i stole

the stuff because it's just so perfect. and it is all the more perfect because it comes from a conservative republican. if you are wondering how it feels to be a conservative republican these days, there's your answer. it's hard out there for a conservative republican. here's what he says about the new front runner. herman cain now leads in at least one major poll. he released his first tv commercial on monday. in it his campaign manager talks about how different the campaign a is and lights up a cigarette and exhales in a curly cue. this ad is a humiliating embarrassment. this is his moment and rather than rising to it, he is behaving as though even he can't imagine he'll one day sit in the oval office. he diskoords positions when they

are inconvenient and speaks dismissively of the notion that a presidential candidate ought to know something about foreign policy. these are not the actions of a serious man. john awe calls rick perry and his flat tax plan an embarrassment, his word. embarrassment. and no, he is not a romney man. he writes, romney's fundamental lack of principle is overpowering. yesterday in ohio, he refused to pay whether he opposes a ballot initiative now headed to easy passage next month that would reverse a law ending collective bargaining for state workers. it was shepharded through by liberal objections. on his facebook page in june, romney said he supported the law but now that it is polling badly he wants to shrink away from his earlier support. john ends his column with this plea to the republican

candidates, enough with the foolishness. stop it. stop it now. joining me now, senior political writer for political coe maggie hagerman and political analyst eugene robinson. thank you for joining me tonight. >> good to be here. >> eugene, i normally prefer to quote you. when i open the op ed page i go to my pulitzer prize winning friend and take dictation when i read your column. for john to say what everyone is thinking and just being fed up to this point with the republican candidacies, i think is the perfect encapsulation of where the campaign stands right now. mitt romney has flip flopped so much i think some of the others like perry and cain think they can do it now without being noticed and they have been doing that lately, haven't they?

>> they have been. i feel like i can take tomorrow off. he has already written the column. his column. i think there is one flaw in his column. it presupposes that herman cain and rick perry are capable of more serious policy positions. in other words, i think what you see is what you get. i think herman cain, his campaign slogan should be whatever. and 9-9-9, 9-0-9, whatever. and rick perry's tax plan is really an embarrassment. just to the kind of throw out this 20% flat tax and we'll add it and whichever is lower. it is absurd. a grade school class would do a better job of designing tax reform than that. but i think this is who they are. >> maggie, a lot of presidential campaigns filled with primary contenders like this start off ragged and you can watch the candidates grow up a bit.

if there's senators involved like last time with chris dodd and joe biden you had to watch them get used to a different kind of stage and then there's always some flaky candidate on the edge. >> sure. >> and you watch them either gel in to something that makes a little more sense or the flaky ones just fall apart. that's not happening here. >> no. it's really interesting actually. there is no real lower tier here where you can see people as the nominee. last time in both parties you had people across the board who you could see on the nominee. one on the lower side ended up the vice president. this is a very different field we are looking at. it is partly entertainment. this is the whatever candidacy. he gets people o angry people say herman cain is serious why would they say he is serious there is little evidence of a real campaign. he is only showing it in the last few days. he is saying we have been complain campaigning while on

the book tour. facts matter and the problems are at his hand. he flip flops on abortion. different positions one day, and he said quoting john if he doesn't like it one day he will say something next and then demand why you don't understand him. he is a gifted speaker and does well before crowds but it only gets you this far. but this time it is getting people very far. >> isn't it based on the stiffness of the american politician, the factory built american politician? what herman cain gives you is the feeling he is being frank and honest and open. he's not being right and frequently he is not smart about what he is saying but people don't care because he's the only politician on the stanl where you feel, i think that guy just said what he means. >> it's refreshing. look, a liberal friend of mine said this morning, he was chatting and said i'd never vote for him and i disagre with everything he says but i like herman cain.

it is hard not to like the freshness that he brings to the race, but in terms of policy, you know, the only thing he brings is that he is more conservative and seen as more reliably conservative than mitt romney. and those two factors, the freshness and the fak he is not mitt romney are what have him in many polls ahead now and in every poll at least in second place. >> he's in the latest "new york times" poll, cain is 25%. romney at 21% and then it falls off a cliff down to gingrich at 10 and rick perry below ron paul at 6. but the state-by-state polls, let's look at those. in iowa, cnn magazine time poll, shows romney is ahead in iowa without making a serious effort there. 24% in iowa for romney. 29% for cain. 12% for ron paul.

10% gingrich and 10% perry. maggie, perry is supposed to be running first or second in iowa if he has any chance at the presidency. >> this is a real problem for perry. romney has a path because the social conservatives in iowa have not coesed around anyone. this is ultimately going to be a hunl issue. i think i you are going to see some movement because rick perry is showing some sign of a pulse and attacking romney aggressively. he is saying he may not attend the large number of debates that are going forward. he will play by his own rules. if rick perry doesn't come in first or second and ahead of realliny he is done. >> i want you to listen to how jon stewart summarized herman cain's flip flopping. >> here's herman cain explaining why he wanted an electrified fence across california.

>> it was a joke and some people don't think it is a good joke and it is not a joke that should have been made by a presidential candidate. i apologize if it offended anyone. >> you can catch more of his stylings on the tone deaf comedy jam with. he apologizes for the joke about lech fieing the fence. says one more sentence and then says this. i don't apologize for using a combination of offense and it might be electrified. i'm not walking away from that. [ laughter ] >> herman cain proposes policy the same way a teenager guy hits on a girl. we should make out. no, just jokin', unless you think we should make out. >> jane, isn't that what allows president obama to go on jay leno's show and talk about the republican field of candidates, as if they are simply a joke? >> it is.

and as long as they continue being a joke he's going to be able to get away with that. look, the contrast could not be more stark. we have a president who some people don't like. some people do like but he's the president. he knows about foreign affairs. he comes out with a plan and it makes sense. the numbers add up versus what you have on the republican side. you can't beat somebody with nobody. the republicans don't have anybody yet except romney who would be a formidable candidate but they don't like him that much. >> maggie haberman and gene thank you for joining me tonight. coming up, we will have a graphic depiction of why the occupy protesters have take on the the streets in this country. and donald trump returns to the show tonight. no, not as a guest. you know he will never do that because he knowsly never let him get away with silly lies but he

said something on fox news last night that i agree with completely and we have an update on his reaction to what i said about him here last night. that's in the "rewrite."" at adt, we get financing from ge capital. but they also go beyond banking. we installed a ge fleet monitoring system. it tracks every vehicle in their fleet. it cuts fuel use. koch: it enhances customer service. it's pretty amazing when people who loan you money also show you how to save it. not just money, knowledge. it's so much information, it's like i'm right there in every van in the entire fleet. good day overall. yeah, i'm good. come on in. let's go. wow, this is fantastic. ge capital. they're not just bankers. we're builders. they helped build our business. we are now printing on the back sides of used paper and we switched to fedex cause a lot of their packaging

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coming up, occupy oakland protesters are back in the streets tonight and a new report shows what they are angry about, the income of the top 1% increased by nearly 300% in the last 30 years. the other 99%, not even close. that's next. and the author of steve jobs biography, walt wither isaacson is joining me and he will tell us what steve jobs told rupert murdoch about fox news.

oh [ bleep ]. >> that was the scene in oakland, california overnight after riot police stormed the occupy oakland protests, set off tear gas and fired rubber bullet at the protesters in an effort to clear the encampment. the oakland protesters returned

to the oscar grant plaza an hour ago. everything is peaceful so far. some people, including many republican politicians say they don't understand why the occupy america protesters are upset, even though new york mayor mike bloomberg told them why back on september 17th, when he, in effect, predicted all of this. we have a lot of kids graduating college, can't find jobs. that's what happened in tie row, that's what happened in madrid. you don't want those kinds of riots here. the very next day, september 17th, hundreds of protesters convened in lower manhattan for day one of the occupy wall street protests. at the top of profiles and greed last night, we told you the results of a congressional budget office report on income distribution in the united states over the last three decades. the top 1% saw their income increase a staggering 275% while

everyone else, 99% saw their incomes increase between 65 and 18%. the cbo report also found that the share of income received by the top 20% now exceeds the share of income received by the other 80% of americans. joining me now is doreen warren, an assistant professor at columbia university and a fellow at the roosevelt institute. what do you -- how would you explain this remarkable graph over the last 30 years at the top of the income curve? whaes what's happened in the country? it. >> is shocking, first of all, that this is now becoming a main stream issue. it's been talked about for decades and for years by folks and it wasn't until the occupy wall street protesters and now the cbo report was released yesterday. >> we've done these tests of people saying describe your country.

we would give them different tests that would show this kind of income inequality and then something that was more equal distribution, never equal but more proportionate distribution, and virtually no one would pick the correct way the united states income curve was actually shaped. no one in the country really knew this before. >> it is hard for americans to believe the united states is the most unequal of all advanced industrial democracies. we are more unequal than western europe for instance. and most explanations is this is the economy and labor market but this is due to plix and tax policy. our policy has changed over the last 30 years so that the top rate at 70% at one point is down to 28. we have policies that we tried to update like the minimum wage, for instance. in 1968 the minimum wage was worth $10 an hour and today it is 7.25. we have a broken labor law.

so that one in three workers may try to join a union, get fired from their jobs illegally. these are all policies that have been put in place or have been prevented from being updated that account for a lot of this inequality. >> we are showing you live pictures of the new york city occupy wall street protests at this hour in lower manhattan. the report says that the financial sector and the rest of the economy appears inexpolitically large from 1990 onward compared to the rest of the economy. the authors believe deregulation and corporate finance offerings led to credit risk are the primary kaufss for the higher compensation differential. they adjusted for education difference and people working on wall street with and they said there is a strange amount of money being made there that wasn't made there before. >> that's right. the top 1% take home a quarter of the nation's income every year.

but it's no accident that occupy wall street is occupy wall street. because the top 1% of new york city take home roughly 45% of the city's income. and that's driven by the financial sector, and that's unusual. that wasn't how it used to be in the immediate post world war ii years where we had shared prosperity among all americans, not just at the very top becoming the winners. >> professor warren, thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you for having me, lawrence. my fun with donald trump continues. he sent me tweets today and for the first time ever he said something on tv that i completely agree with. and walter isaac soon will join us to tell us what steve jobs really thought of fox news. that's coming up. so soon will ♪

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still to come in this hour, steve jobs the most fascinating biography of the year. walter isaacson will talk to me. and one of the injured protesters from occupy oakland will join me from the protest site tonight.

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joining me now is walter isaacson. thank you for joining me tonight. i worried about you while you work on this book thinkingly give hail shot and publicity and try to sell a few books. >> thank you, sir. >> turns out this is the biggest selling book in the history of the printing press. >> it is because of steve jobs. you have to remember this guy emotionally connected with people. >> he did. and the timing of the book coming out shortly after he -- it shocked us -- we all knew he was sick but the news came, to me, when i was preparing this show in burbank actually just minutes before we were going on and i just knew we had to clear out that whole hour to do this. even though we knew it was coming, it was still shocking. >> i was particularly surprised at the huge global emotional outpouring. we all knew the guy had cancer but even when i visited him the

last time a few weeks ago, he thought he was going to stay one lily pad ahead of the cancer and i kept thinking he will be around next year. >> he was an internal optimist. >> he used that. he would say you can do this. you can code this in four days and they'd say no way. >> it's in the book, the story about made them do it in four days. i saw it on the show. this is so cool. >> the stayed with that method through every product they were developing, right. he kept pushing it faster than anyone thought it could be done. >> and connecting the poetry to the engineering. nobody could have thought you could have made an ipad that powerful, that big. >> we have some questions for you. suz icyp 99 said did jobs regard any of his game changing devices as his signature piece or legacy.

>> the signature piece he told me was not any device but the company. he said he discovered in america if you are going to have creativity and change and innovation you have to actually have a company that can make it work, where people aren't afraid to fight and be brutally honest and have new ideas. he said people like zuckerburg who did facebook he really respects because he's trying to build a company. whereas other entrepreneurs create a product and sell it. >> he says he hate when people call themselves entrepreneurs and when they are trying to launch a start up, sell and cash in and move on. they are unwilling to do the work it takes to build a real company which is the hardest work in business. that's how you really make a contribution and lead add to the legacy of those who went before you. >> you are right. just said it better than i did. >> where would his heart be

watching occupy wall street and occupy oakland which have never been protests against what steve jobs was doing. they are protesting against the people on wall street who just rub money together all day. >> one of the interesting things was during the occupy movement when he died, all of the people at the park they all go in to mourning. here's a guy who had made billions. was a great capitalist and yet, i think what the distinction is just what you just said he made money by making products. products that he thought were insanely great. not just doing it to make the money. opposed to using your engineering skills to make financial instruments that cause the collapse of the housing mark. >> and sticking with the company. >> exactly. >> to fox news, you knew i was going to get there. >> what took so long? >> is also from the burke book, jobs god rupert murdoch to hear him out on fox news. he said you are blowing it with fox news jobs told him over dinner.

the axis today is not liberal and conservative, the axis is constructive-destructive and you have cast your lot. fox news is a destructive force in our society. you can be better. who else could say that to rupert murdoch. i talked to murdock after words and he said jobs is a liberal, i hear it all the time but murdock and jobs respected each other. because myrrh tock doctor all of his old fashioned ways he started to create things on this ipad, jumped on the digital rev laigs lucien. i think jobs main point there was the necessity, there were certain shows i won't name names on fox that he said tore people down and i think he felt that way in a broader sense that we reached a time in our society where people don't try to build institutions. there's a lot more tearing down, destructiveness. >> steve jobs with was an obama

supporter . he offered to help with the 2012 campaign. >> remember the ads for morning in america, that's what he wanted to do. he wanted to do ads like that for obama, both in 2008 and was a big supporter before he died. wanted to make ads for 2012 and he wanted to do it with sort of that grand branding message he did with the 1984 ads or the different -- the think different ads. when he talks to axelrod about that and i'm not sure that axelrod got a word in edge wise. >> why isn't the conversation in the book? >> i found out about it last week. >> there is that. i guess i know who you found it out from now. >> yeah. >> he talked about the president with you. talked about president obama. talked about his frustration in listening to the president talk about things sometimes and explaining why they couldn't get done. what i read in that is the president is explaining the

politics of why they can't get done. >> correct. >> especially on the dream act for example which steve jobs was a big supporter of. >> he said you can't do the dream act unless you codo it in the context of visa reform, immigration reform. steve jobs had a way, as we said earlier, of just pushing whatever he wanted. if he felt that the macintosh could be out by january, somehow or another everything would happen and magical thinking would get it out by january. you can not do the that in government. the last meeting i had with steve before he died we are talking about a variety of things and he said, somehow obama comes up and he said, you know the problem with obama he just won't piss people off, get them mad. he won't anger them and i wasn't thinking politics, i was thinking steve jobs, yeah, that's not a problem i have. >> did the grasp that that steve jobs could push people past their limit.

a president cannot go in to congressman of the other party and say you have to do this. >> yeah. he understood that in a divided government, in a democracy you couldn't roll that way. in the early '80s there was somebody who worked in class with him and said he would have made an excellent king of france. that's what he would have been made. he would not have made an excellent president in a divide democracy like we have now. and i think he understood what obama was faced with. >> tell me about his -- he had and counter with his father before he knew the man he had the encounter with was his father and then he said he researched his father, eventually when he researched him and didn't like what he found out about him and therefore chose not to meet him or have any contact. what it is that he found about him that he didn't like. >> his father had abandoned his mother.

had abandoned the sister, the younger sister they had who turned out to be the novelist mona simpson. so steve is enchanted by the notion in his late '20s he discovers he is the brother of mona simpson, this wonderful artist. >> had he known about mona's work before. >> not yet. she had not published anywhere but here but she was about to. she was working for the paris review and the mother said i haven't told you this, he just tracked me down. i am not going to tell you who he is. he is dark hair and famous and is rich. and everyone tries so guess who he is and they come up with john travolta and it ends up being steve jobs. >> a better outcome for everyone. >> but you know, let me tell you. >> what happened with the father. >> mona tracks down the father. the father is running a coffee shop in sacramento, he was born in syria, graduate student of

the university of wisconsin. that's when he had these two children. abandoned the family. running a coffee shop in sacramento. you can't make this up. mona goes there and steve doesn't want to have anything to do with him. he starts crying and said i wish you could see me earlier. i used to have the best restaurant in silicone valley near couper tina even steve jobs used to come. and mona taken aback doesn't say steve jobs is your son and she she says oh, yeah, he was a great tipper. she reports it to steve and says i remember the guy who ran that restaurant, the balding syrian guy, never spoke to him again. >> walter isaacson, thank you for joining me tonight. are there any left in the bookstore? are they still available in america? lawrence. >> they are all sold out. >> we will sell a few. donald trump is landed himself in the rewrite for the

second night in a row. we will tell you why next. oakland police used tear gas to break up protests. one protester who was injured will join me. and we are following protests tonight in new york city. stay with us. so if i didn't know better i'd say you're having some sort of big tire sale. yes we are. yeah. how many tires does ford buy every year? over 3 million. you say you can beat any advertised price on tires? correct. anywhere? yes. like this price? yes. riously? yes what about this one? i'll beat it. this one? s we will. right, i only have one more question for you...this one? (laughing) yeah. get $100 rebate when you buy four tires. 100 bucks! only at your ford dealer. 3 million tires. 11 major brands, fiona's kind-of-nice. i don't know why you're not here. no, i wouldn't use that single miles credit card. hey, aren't you... shhh. i'm researching a role.

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the best part is the eight seconds it takes for herman cain to smile. i am america

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the program realizing it would draw more atoengs my criticism of him. and then yesterday, suddenly, donald trump started to tweet me, which has given me the opportunity, more than once now, to ask him to beg him, to tell me one thing, one thing i have said about him this year that is not true. one thing. today, he finally came up with one. and only one. in response to lawrence my net worth is substantially more than $7 billion. very low debt, great assets. i have said that donald is not a billionaire but he valiantly tries to play one on a reality tv show and he does it for a paycheck which he desperately needs to survive fblly. there's no amount of money that a tv network could offer a billionaire, a real billionaire to induce him or her to become a reality tv perform mare.

and that is the only factual standoff that remains now between donald trump and me. he says, he's a billionaire seven times over. i say he's not. throughout his life, which began as the fortunate son of a very rich man, he has felt compelled to lie about how rich he is as he's made his way in his father's real estate business. but that is not all he has lied about. i've said repeatedly he lied about hiring investigators to go to hawaii to investigate president obama's birth. the second i heard him say that, i knew he was lying about it and said so. >> i have people that actually have been studying and they cannot believe what they are finding. >> you have people down there searching in hawaii. >> absolutely and they cannot believe what they are finding. >> donald got away with that lie everywhere he went those die days. >> i'm looking in to it

seriously. >> like what? >> i don't want to go in to that. no reason to go in to that in great detail but i can tell you i have great resource and i'm looking in to it very seriously. >> donald was back on greta last night and those of you hoping for a follow up question about what those investigators foun in hawaii got this instead. >> suppose someone's nominated who you really admire and think is a strong candidate and that person says i would like you to be my vice president. is that something you would consider. >> it is so far fetched right now. you know me and you know i love what i do and do it well, just about bertd than anyone and i'm having great years in business and i love business. many other people love business but it is hard to do business now days because of rules, regulations. so many different obstacles are put in front of the united states business person. so, i just love what i'm doing.

i don't see that happening. i think i'd do a good job. i tell you what, our country wouldn't be ripped off any longer. those days would be over but i don't see that happening. >> and there. right there i found my first agreement with donald this year. i too think that greta's question was far fetched and i too don't see that happening. don't see anyone choosing donald to be their vice presidential running mate. in response to my twitter invitations over the past couple of days to tell me what i've gotten wrong, donald has not said that i was wrong about his fairy tale involving investigators going to hawaii. donald wisely declines to come on this show because he knows his lies about his investigator and nonsense would be stripped bare. he prefers shows where his obvious lies are just considered water under the bridge or just donald being donald. i have said donald's lied about pretending to run for president.

he did it convincingly enough to fool many of our major league pundits but i said the presidential campaign stuff was all a lie from the start. every day of it. and donald has no argument with me now over that one. now, the only thing that seems to bother him is saying that he lies about his wealth. he also tweeted this to me today. i heard, because his show is unwatchable, that lawrence has made many false statements last night about me. maybe i should sue him. that's awfully soft for donald, isn't it? he doesn't usually sound like a maybe kind of guy. maybe i should sue him. donald trump is never going to sue me for two with reasons. first, he knows he could never prove that a single thing i've said about him is untrue, and second, and this is by far the

most important one, donald trump will never sue me because i know his big secret, his biggest secret and he knows that i know it. donald trump cannot afford to sue me. and he knows it. [ telephone rings ] aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa auto repair? gary... he hung up. ...why do we have so many a's in our name? so we're listed first in the phone book. ya know, gives us an edge. you know fedex can, give us an edge. how? well, fedex ships auto parts from factories around the world, they clear em through customs, and that'll help us fix cars faster. great idea. you know you got a bright future here at aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... [ male announcer ] supply chain solutions. fedex. solutions that matter.

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occupy wall street protesters in new york city are marching in protest for what they say was unnecessary force used by police in oakland last night against protesters there. there are reports of some arrests of new york protester tonight, though there is no

indication how many. the police officers on our screen they are at the bottom of the screen as you are looking at it now. and in oakland, for a second night in a row, occupy oakland protesters are squaring with off with police there to try to take their encampment back. you are looking now at live pictures from oakland where hundreds of protesters have returned in defiance after clashes with police last night. this was the scene about 24 hours ago. police used tear gas and fired bean bags to try to disperse what they say were crowds up to 1,000 protesters. more than 100 were arrested. the number of injured is not known, but we know two officers were injured. at least one protester, an iraq war veteran, suffered a

fractured skull. [ bleep ]. >> what happened? what happened? >> he got hit. >> shot. >> what's your name? what's your name? >> that's 24-year-old scott olson. he served two tours in iraq. tonight he is hospitalized reportedly in stable but critical condition. in atlanta, police are standing guard to make sure protesters do not reenter a park they were ejected from this morning. in all 50 people were arrested there. in washington, one protester took the occupy wall street message to a meeting of the deficit reduction super committee. >> remind all of our guests that -- >> the public wants you to tax the rich and end the war. end the war and tax the rich. >> joining me now from the site at occupy oakland is someone who was hurt in last night's clashes, tasho cassini an occupy

oakland protester. thank you for joining us. can you describe what is going on in oakland? >> right now? >> yes. >> right now there's a rally at amsterdam plaza. they are holding a general assembly. there's probably 1500 people here. we are trying to take back the plaza and the space we built. >> tell me what happened with the use of the tear gas last night and were the protesters warned what the police were going to do? >> were they aware? >> were they warned ahead of time by the police of what the police intended to do? >> yeah. the police chief, who is currently just a temporary police chief because a anthony babbitt quit his job was giving the orders over a mega phone, a

speaker of some type that if people do not disperse they would use chemical weapons because they were in violation of penal code 409. >> i want you to listen to what the interim police chief had to say after the event. >> at that point, we were in a position where we had to deploy gas in order to stop the crowd of people from pelting us with bottle and rocks. >> did you see people throwing bottles and rocks at the police before they used those tactics? >> um, yes. yes, people were doing that. >> what do you think the police response should have been to that? >> i think that the use of tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades are a completely

inappropriate response tobottle bottles being thrown at rioter here. i don't think they should have used any chemical weapons. >> the police say they didn't use rubber bullets. can you help us with that dispute or the question whether rubber bullets was used? >> yeah. we actually had two people over here earlier who had found the rubber bullets in the street. this were bibig one withes and small one withes. >> tasha casini, hope you can stay safe. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> you can have last word on-line on our blog.