just go with your gut. >> people focused on game six. the red sox blew game seven. they had a lead in that. >> you are the worst guy. >> okay. wrap it up. >> what did you learn? >> i learned that steve jobs designed this cover himself. had no other input in the book but insisted on designing the cover. >> great design. >> i also want to thank jane mclaughlin for having us last night for a lovely event. joe had a wonderful time. it's great to have you with us. >> it's morning joe. stick around for chuck todd. >> actual growth. new numbers show that despite fears of a double-dip recession this summer, the u.s. economy grew 2.5% in the third quarter. and europe delivers a deal that could save greece. could the stalling economy finally be accelerating? there's an occupant in the white house who is most curious. plus, executive orders.

the president bushs plans on jobs, housing, student loans and more. is this the action the base has been clamoring for. senior white house adviser stephanie cutter weighs in on how much the president can actually accomplish this way. and dirty dozen. a college football fight breaks now the the u.s. senate. joe manchin versus mitch mcconnell in the fight between louisville and west virginia to escape the crumbling big east. west virginia's manchin joins us to talk about his threat to use a senate investigation if west virginia is left out. it's thursday, october 27th, 2011. this is a special edition of "the daily rundown" from seattle, washington, home of msnbc.com. that's why i'm out here today and yesterday. big news on what is the year's most significant political story. the stalling economy. economists have feared we may be on the cusp of the double-dip recession. growth forecasts have fluctuated wildly over the past few months. moments ago we learned the economy grew at its fastest pace

in a year in this last third quarter. by 2.5%. after dismally slow growth in the first half of the year. also this morning, european leaders finally reached a deal which may be a significant step forward for the eurozone, securing an agreement from banks to take a50% loss on the value of their greek debt. now economists had said that this third quarter was always going to be the best quarter of this year. the question, though, is, is this an aberration or do we see a continuation in the fourth quarter and in the first quarter of 2012? if we do, that sets the tone for the presidential campaign. we don't, and this is just simply one positive blip, then we might be right back where we started from. but the combination of this and what's going on in europe, does that give the confidence in the markets which then gives confidence to consumers? we shall see. on the 2012 campaign trail it's been 24 hours of backtracks and

takebacks. rick perry is intent on painting mitt romney as a political opportunist with an authenticity problem but he confused the issue this week with his own equivocating. he supported issue two on facebook in june. that's the ohio law restricting collective bargaining rights. tuesday in ohio he hedged while standing on the steps of a building where republican activists were campaigning for the measure. then came the full-fledged takeback yesterday. >> i am not speaking about the particular ballot issues. those are up to the people of ohio. but i certainly support the effort of the governor to rein in the scale of government. so i'm not terribly familiar with the two ballot initiatives. >> i'm sorry if i created any confusion. i fully support governor kasich's, i think it's called question two. what i was referring to is i know there are other ballot questions in ohio. i wasn't taking a position on those. i am 1 10% behind governor kasich and in support of that

question. >> by the way, the other ballot question is one about the health care mandate. that's why he didn't want to get into that one. perry's campaign is quick to jump on this issue. mark miner said yesterday mitt romney may have set a new record in the amount of time it's taken him to flip-flop and it's still nearly the day. now democrats are joining in on the pile-on. the dnc is out with a new video pegged to the ohio ballot issue with the tag line which mitt, again, what scared the romney campaign more was having to take a position apparently on the health care. they are putting -- they have issue three on the ballot there is about opting out of the mandate in president obama's health care plan. and romney didn't want to step into that fight. anyway, rick perry, though, has not exactly been backtrack free himself. tripling down on birtherism and then trying to extricate himself from comments he made questioning the president's citizenship. wait until you listen to this.

>> i don't have a clue about where the president and what this birth certificate says. i don't think i was expressing doubts. i was having some fun with donald trump. >> are you comfortable that he's an american citizen? >> oh, yeah. it's fun to -- lighten up a little bit. >> so you have no doubt he's an american citizen? >> i have no doubt about it. here's the more interesting thing. let's lay out our income taxes. let's lay out our college transcripts. mine's been on the front page of the paper. >> so fascinating. he said he was joking in the interview with john harwood. you saw it there. you can make your own conclusion about whether you believe he was joking. but the other interesting thing the perry campaign is doing try to push mitt romney to release a tax return. guess who else is interested in that? the obama campaign. finally speaking of rick perry, he's in single digits in state and national polls after a series of poor debate

performances. he's signaling he may sthart skipping future scheduled debates. perry has tried to defuse the focus with humor. here before social conservatives in iowa last weekend. >> we are not called to be perfect. if any of you have watched my debate performances over the last three or four times you know i am far from perfect. >> but with three debates scheduled during the first 15 days of november, advisers are only committing that he will appear at one. the cnbc debate in michigan on november 9th. the communications director ray sullivan last night. >> when you've got eight or nine candidates and 30 seconds to a minute, it takes valuable time away from campaigning in iowa as those elections approach. i think there are 18 more in the planning phases. there's no way the candidates can do all of those debates. we're taking each of these as they come, examining the schedule, examining the

opportunities and the opportunity cost. >> if you followed perry's career in texas, you'll know they are big believers, including this perry campaign brain trust, they are big believers in retail campaigning. and one thing these debates have done and i've heard this complaint from multiple campaigns is that it's taken them off the road. they haven't been able to spend the time actually talking to voters in iowa and new hampshire as much as they would like to do because of so much debate prep. all right. let's move to the white house. they are promising a slew of executive orders in the coming months. one every week for the rest of the year. and while the effect may be limited, the president says it's a choice between doing something and doing nothing. >> all these steps aren't going to take the place of the needed action that congress has to get going on. they are still going to have to pass this jobs bill. they've got to create jobs. they've got to grow the economy. but these executive actions we're taking can make a difference.

and i've told my administration we're going to look every single day to figure out what we can do without congress. >> stephanie cutter is the president's deputy senior adviser. she joins me now. she's on her way, i think in the next couple of months to become the deputy campaign manager on the re-elect. let me start with this executive order promise. lay it out for me. what are the first couple we should expect to see? >> well, i -- chuck, i'm not going to preview what could be coming but we're going to continue to look at taking actions that make a difference in people's lives, similar to what the president announced yesterday, helping kids coming out of college manage their student loan debt while they get on their feet, look for a job. this is a tough job mark nept day before we announced an initiative to help veterans get jobs as they come back from iraq and afghanistan. and the day before that, initiatives to help people save money on their monthly mortgage payments by tearing down some barriers so they can refinance. we're looking at other initiatives going forward. this is something we've been

doing all along. the president, a little over a month ago, announced an initiative to give states waivers on no child left behind. precisely because congress took four years to act. and kids couldn't wait. so we've been doing this right along. it's, i think, a significantly more prominent now because we've had a series of votes in the senate on the american jobs act where republicans voted lock step against these jobs initiatives. jobs initiatives that would grow the economy, put people back to work. it's obvious right now we need to do something to continue moving the country forward and we can't wait for congress to act. >> you are saying you can't wait. then why have you waited? why haven't you been -- why didn't you start doing this six weeks ago as you guys were pushing the jobs bill, do it simultaneously if this stuff is going to work, even around the margins why wait as long as you have? >> well, chuck, just what i just said that, you know, it's taken on more prominent now because of

the unprecedented obstruction that we're seeing in congress. but we have been doing things right along. you know, a couple of months ago we announced a new housing initiative to get rid of the excess inventory that will help eventually increase home prices, get the value back in your homes that our savings plans that so many people relied on for so many years when they saw those home values get wiped away. we've been announcing cost-cutting initiatives. over a week ago we announced hhs is getting rid of a billion dollars worth of regulation so that hospitals and doctors can focus on what they need to focus on which is caring for patients. this takes on significantly more prominence now because we're seeing unprecedented obstruction by republicans in congress. the president put forward a bipartisan set of ideas to grow the economy and they won't act on them. >> we're about potentially a month away from another government shutdown. we also simultaneously have the deal with the supercommittee

that's being negotiated. what role is the white house playing with the supercommittee right now? who is involved in these talks? >> well, chuck, you know that the president put out a detailed plan on deficit reduction. it's a plan that included shared sacrifice, shared responsibility. including the buffett rule to ensure that, you know, the millionaires and billionaires weren't playing less in taxes, that we could do deficit reduction in a way that protected economic growth now but put us on for a fiscal plan in the future. we put out a detailed plan. congress needs to do their work on this. they passed a law. they made a commitment to the american people that thoift supercommittee we're going to pass a deficit reduction plan. congress needs to act by december 23rd or these significant cuts get triggered. this is a law congress passed. we support it and believe they should do their work which is why we put out a pretty detailed deficit reduction plan. >> the democrats on the committee have their own. have they worked with the white house? have they coordinated with the white house to see how much

support they'd get from the president on this? >> i'm not going to get into the details of what the democrats and republicans doorg s are doe supercommittee. this is a congressional effort. there are conversations that happen between the white house and congress all the time on the important issues facing the country. right now the supercommittee needs to figure out what they can get out, what they can bring both parties together on. we've laid down some markers. we believe it needs to be balanced. we believe it needs to include shared sacrifice. i think there's significant democratic support for that shared sacrifice. we just need republicans to come along with us. >> i want to ask you about occupy wall street, what happened in oakland. how concerned is the president about what he has seen on television? >> well, i think that, you know, the president has spoken to this several times that the sentiments that we are hearing about, the inequality, the unfairness, the rules -- the cards are stacked against average americans, middle class students graduating from college. that cent simt something, that

story line is something we've been talking about a long time. it's really the reason we've done a number of different things like pass wall street reform, like giving working americans a payroll tax cut to see if we can level the playing field and give everyone a fair shake. obviously, people have a right to protest. that's what this country is built on. everybody's first amendment right to make their voices heard. so the president has spoken on this quite often. >> i understand that. but what about the -- what we've seen over the last 48 hours in oakland in particular. >> i think we should make sure we can find a way to continue to do this in a peaceful way. people can make their voices heard on both sides of the debate in a very peaceful way. >> and has he -- can you say for sure, has he been following what's happened in oakland in particular? >> honestly, chuck, he got back from a three-day trip. i haven't spoken to him about this, but i know that he believes in the right to

peacefully protest. >> stephanie cutter, senior adviser on the white house. when do you head over to chicago? >> oh, further -- towards the end of the year. no rush. >> fair enough. stephanie cutter, thanks for coming on this morning. d.c.'s power players are starting to show their cards in the race for president. up next, michael iskof is following the k street money and mitt romney getting confrontational on the campaign trail. a little fire in the belly just what he needs or could it burn him in his campaign to get to the white house? plus, unsportsman-like conduct. what has senator joe manchin questioning the senate republican leader's ethics. first a look ahead at the president's schedule. interesting evening. he's got a campaign contest he's got to fulfill. you're watching "the daily rundown" on msnbc. [ male announcer ] at e-trade, investing means taking action

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for a candidate described as cool, calculating and, yes, sometimes even a little stiff, mitt romney has demonstrated a somewhat surprising tendency to get testy and animated. do min co montinaro joins me now. it's been an interesting transformation of mitt romney's circa 2007 to mitt romney circa 2011. >> there sure is, chuck. people are used to seeing a subdued, polite mitt romney. that changed for a national audience at last week's debate. it's familiar to those who followed him on the trail this time around. mitt romney's normally calm demeanor is showing cracks.

at last week's debate in nevada he got testy. >> rick, i'm speaking. i'm speaking. i'm speaking. anderson -- >> you say that you knew you had -- >> would you please wait. your just going to keep talking? >> reporter: that was in contrast to how quickly he redeflected attacks in previous debates. >> michael dukakis created jobs three times faster. >> george bush and his predecessor created jobs at a faster rate than you did. >> reporter: at the iowa state fair when dealing with a heckler -- >> hold on a second. hold on a second and i'll let you speak. hold on a second and -- >> at a town hall in new hampshire. >> you had your turn. you had your turn, madam. let me have mine. let me complete. i'm sorry. it's my turn. you had yours. now it's my turn. >> reporter: when an arizona voter criticized his massachusetts health care plan, romney took exception. >> first of all, you're wrong. and let me explain why i said that. it's not obama care.

>> in new hampshire when a voter accused him of supporting the president's stimulus plan he said flatly. >> well, first, you're wrong. that's number one. >> reporter: romney's raw reactions are reminiscent of chris christie whose popularity with conservatives seemed to soar higher because of his contentious moments with voters. >> if what you want to do is put on a show and giggle every time i talk, then i have no interest in answering your question. voter he channeling his inner christie sore this just how he reacts to being challenged. glen johnson who has covered romney since his days at massachusetts governor had his own run-in with him in 2008. johnson wrote the criticism from gop rivals exposed the former ceo's tendency to bristle when he loses control of a situation and romney's visible anger laid bare a side of his personality many in the national audience had not seen during this campaign. but some conservatives see it differently. >> he showed a flash of anger, which i think he needed to do.

he's been coasting for so long. romney showed he can fight. i think that was effective. >> reporter: republican voters may respond to the confrontational style in a primary but will swing voters in a general election? chuck, we got a statement from the romney campaign about these debate moments and about these moments on the trail. it says these moments have been moments of strength for governor romney. he has shown his passion about the issues and made it clear that he's going to stand up for what he believes in and to defend his record from misrepresentations. another thing that we noticed, chuck, one of the triggers for this is when he's interrupted. he likes it when person a speaks and ends, person b responds, ends, person c can talk back. you get inside of that zone and, you know, that's what really can trigger this different side of him. >> that's true. i'll tell you, nothing wrong with -- i get why people like following the rules. we all like to follow rules around here. >> there's a real split on whether or not this is -- >> how it plays. thank you, sir. we'll stick with romney

here. he was all smiles in washington yesterday at a big name, big dollar fund-raiser. in addition to congressional leaders, the guest list featured some of the most influential lobbyists. michael isikoff has been tracking it. mike, who is who of folks there yesterday? same group of folks that were there with -- to meet rick perry last week? >> not exactly. these are the sort of super lobbyists of k street. guys who have been around the gop power establishment representing some of the biggest corporations and trade associations in washington. and what this really represented is this sort of power establishment of the republican party rallying behind romney. we had -- somebody was there, norm coleman was asked about this. why? he gave a kind of revealing answer. it's all about electability.

>> a lot of this is k street is what it is. you'll start seeing more and more of the members coming on board, recognizing that mitt romney has the best chance of beating barack obama. >> and that's it. the momentum on k street at least is palpable. you had both -- a lot of power players on capitol hill, congressional members, committee chairman, daryl issa has come on board the romney campaign. buck mckeon, the house armed services committee chairman, mike rogers, the house intelligence committee chairman. the congressional leadership does seem to be coalescing behind romney. at the same time, the k street power establishment is. and, look, if there was a primary on k street at this point, romney would probably win in a landslide if not by acclimation. >> mike in 2010, and these were the smaller -- in smaller state races, the candidate that the

establishment rally around -- rallied around, i'm thinking kentucky in particular, but we saw it in delaware and alaska, nevada, that wasn't a good thing that politically ended up turning off primary voters. and yet rick perry is also trying to woo she's same folks. >> exactly. there is this divergence between what we're seeing among the power players in washington who just, you know, want to sort of anoint romney as the nominee at this point and the polls which still show he has a less than commanding position. he can't seem to rise above that sort of 25%, 30% threshold. and so, you know, the key question is how much is this going to translate. you see that more and more in the comments by people like karl rove who probably is as much as anybody represents the sort of gop establishment at this point. you know, taking shots at perry,

cain, anybody who seems to be threatening romney, interestingly, one of the people who was there co-sponsoring the event yesterday, tim griffin, a karl rove protege, freshman republican from arkansas who is going to lead the romney campaign in arkansas. so, i mean, that is the tension to watch. the power establishment versus what the polls are going to show when the voters actually have their own voice. >> a lot of rank and file conservatives not happy with the washington establishment. mike isikoff, national investigative correspondent. mike, good work. thank you, sir. all right. that overnight breakthrough in the european debt crisis, is this the deal that defuses the ticking time bomb everybody has been worried about? we'll see what wall street makes of all of this. our market rundown is next. plus, the fight over college football conferences reaches capitol hill. democratic senators from west virginia teaming up against the republican senate leader mitch mcconnell from kentucky. we will huddle up with senator joe manchin next. first, today's trivia question.

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futures point to a strong open on wall street thanks to the most gdp growth. and optimism surrounding europe's debt crisis. so all of our problems solved in 24 hours? growth and greek? >> i -- unicorns. unicorns. the good news is the market right now is taking this very well. looks like the dow jones will be up about something on the order of about 250 points which is quite remarkable. having said all of that, it's really -- and by the way on the

back really of the announcement out of europe, as you said, though. over 24 hours, hard to believe the entire plan is in place. there's still a lot that needs to be done. and some big questions that still need to be asked. the banks are going to be taking what they call 50% haircuts. they'll get 50% less on those greek bonds. they are also having to recapitalize the banks. so they have to find investors to put something like $173 billion into those banks in this environment. there's a big question whof is going to do that? are governments going to do that? private investors? and then the larger question about the stability fund. $1.4 trillion. where is all that money ultimately going to come from. there's a plan in place. people feel better that there's actually a plan, but effectuating the plan is going to be the big challenge. >> quickly, the gdp announcement at 2.5%. that's, obviously, more of a relief announcement than anything else. >> exactly. >> but what did you see inside it that makes you optimistic on the fourth quarter and what did

you see inside the numbers that makes you a little pessimist snick. >> more optimistic than pessimistic and optimistic that the number wasn't worse. over the summer especially as we had the debt ceiling debate and so much of this conversation from ceos about, there's not enough confidence. all this uncertainty. and then to see the gdp number come out where it is gave me some confidence that maybe we were in a better place than we thought. you hear ben bernanke say we're going off the cliff again. so this was good news. maybe it does take us a little bit off that edge. >> thanks, aaron ross sorkin. >> "daily rundown" will be back in 30 seconds.

well, what began as a fight for stability in college athletics has turned into a political fight that's gone straight to capitol hill. earlier this week, the "new york times" reported that west virginia would be the latest school to break rank in the big east for what it considered the greener pastures of the big 12. but just as the deal was set to be announced, the big 12 slammed on the brakes to consider another big east school, louisville. west virginia senator joe manchin is calling for a congressional investigation into whether senate republican leader mitch mcconnell of kentucky undermined west virginia's plans. senator joe manchin joins me now on the phone. this story is moving pretty quickly. there are reports that jay rockefeller, your democratic colleague in west virginia, has now been making calls to big 12 president, including a former u.s. senator who initially had been getting lobbied by mitch

mcconnell. what can you tell me new this morning? >> chuck, basically, thank you for having me on. i can only tell you officially west virginia was invited to be part of the big 12. it's a very prestigious conference. we were very pleased. i'm sure it was done on the merits of west virginia. one of the top 12 public research universities for a number of rhodes scholars and top ten football program for the past six years. we went through that and i don't fault any senator or any politician for rooting for their school. and making sure that the facts are heard. that was done. that's the process. after they made their selection, they contacted wvu on monday and again on tuesday morning to confirm they were in. wvu accepted. they even spoke specifically about finances. a press release was issued from the big 12 to wvu officials that they would be using on wednesday books -- rooms were booked, flights were booked and then all of a sudden tuesday afternoon, that's not what we should be

doing out of washington. that's not the type of politics to be played. we've got more problems than this. but on the other hand, i applaud everybody for rooting for their school. but after a decision had been made, what type of politics intervened? >> well, that's what i want to ask you. i know "the new york times" reported that senator mitch mcconnell, the republican leader, an alum of the university of louisville, from louisville, had been lobbying david boren, president of the university of oklahoma, a former democratic senator from oklahoma, about trying to get louisville brought into the big 12 instead of west virginia. do you know -- are you alleging that some sort of quid pro quo was done? >> no, i'm not alleging anything. i just know from the same stories. but here's the thing. mitch has every right to lobby up until the decision is made. if a decision is made on the merits and west virginia was chosen because of the strength of our school and our program

and what we've accomplished, then that should have been said. mitch lost fair and square. if he jumped in and played different, a different card and this happens, i don't assume that happened. i am very hopeful that the big 12 is still doing their due diligence and they're just doing the final paperwork. finalize the deal that they made. if that doesn't happen, then that's when i said i would ask for a senate investigation to find out what degree of politics was played. >> what kind of -- where would you have this investigation? >> the investigation basically goes to the department -- to the commerce committee. the commerce committee is where -- has the oversight on sports. >> so what does this mean for west virginia? if you get -- if west virginia ends up getting rejected financially, what does this mean for the institution? >> well, i don't know. we're a very resilient state. we're a very resilient university. we're going to survive no matter what and we're going to succeed no matter what. we still believe that the deal

that was made and the deal that was offered to west virginia is still going to come through. and that was, they thought we were a valued school to be added to the big 12. it brought the membership up to ten. very strong based on the merits and the success we've had as a university and what we've accomplished in the sports arena and also in the academics. that's all what was based on the decision. i applaud the big 12 for that. and i'm hopeful that they are just finishing the final paperwork and this will all be done. but if it's not and politics did play, i think it's wrong. >> have you called senator mcconnell? >> no, i have not. i assume that -- i am just still assuming that these stories maybe aren't factual. mitch didn't put any political pressure on. and west virginia will be chosen based on its merits. if that doesn't happen and we find out differently, then the truth will come out and that's wrong. this shouldn't be done. and i don't think the big 12 would stoop that low. i really do not think they'd roll over because of political pressure.

>> when do you think we'll hear a new announcement? >> i think you'll know by the first of the week. i don't think they'll let this linger, and they shouldn't let this linger. this was a done deal, chuck. this was a done deal. >> all right. senator joe manchin, i've got to leave it there. your going to talk to mitch mcconnell today? >> oh, i'd love to. if mitch wants to talk. i just assume that mitch has done everything in the most honorable way. we're going to work on the problems we have trying to get this country moving, trying to work together in a bipartisan. and mitch will be the first to tell you, i am more bipartisan than anybody out there trying to work to move this country forward. and i still look forward to working with him on that. and i hope he has not intervened in an improper way. >> senator joe manchin, democrat from west virginia, former football player for west virginia university. i've got to leave it there. thank you, sir. >> thanks, mitch. thanks chuck. >> all right. thank you, sir. turning now to the economy. eu leaders have agreed on a deal

to help solve that continent's growing debt crisis. here at home, the third quarter gdp had the u.s. economy growing faster last quarter than any other period in the last year. what's the impact of all of this economic news? the president of river twice research and a contributor to the daily beast and cnbc. so i assume you are like everybody else on wall street today when you look at the news of the day. you sit there and you are focused on the deal in europe. more so than the gdp number. >> i think a little bit of both. it's kind of funny following football shenanigans and big 12. i kind of feel like kick europe versus a football conference and eerie similarities between the various parties. i am struck by the fact, and we heard andrew ross sorkin before, there's a wave of skepticism that the europeans have built up over their inability to resolve this crisis. much as there is about the u.s. government and debt. so even though there is this

kind of omnibus deal in order to move things forward and prevent the global financial system from collapsing because the european financial system collapses, it's being met with a huge amount of skeptici skepticism. and i don't share that kind of skepticism. >> is this a model to deal with if italy, spain, the -- pardon the -- pardon my french here, but the piig countries as they've been referred to, these countries with the horrible debt problems. is what happened in greece going to be the model for these other countries if it gets to that point? >> the point of the greece deal is to prevent portugal or ireland. the real big issue from the european perspective is italy because the size of its debt is over a trillion dollars. it simply can't be washed away or recapitalized. there's just not enough money to underwrite italy if italian risk becomes -- the market foresees

the risk to be too great. so that's the real concern from europe. again, legislation, omnibus economic deals, the idea these things are going to be perfect to me is part of the problem. i mean, nobody said in early 2009 when the united states was dealing with all the financial issues around mortgages, and we are still dealing with those issues, right? no one said hosanna, hosanna, this is a great deal. everyone said this is terrible. this is bad. in retrospect it created stability. i fully expect this is a signal moment in providing just enough stability for the world to move on in its messy, complicated fashion. >> speaking of moving on. let's look at the 2.5% growth in the third quarter. what is surprising and what andrew was saying was surprising to him is given all of the doom and gloom, that didn't just come from the public in polls or politicians, but a ben bernanke worried about a double dip.

what would have happened if we had actually had some consumer confidence? >> yeah, look. there's a whole debate that's a real one about the connection between how people feel and what they actually spend. in my view, the only thing that really determines consumer behavior is whether or not they have a job and what their income is. we know for a fact those incomes are stagnant but, still, even though there's huge unemployment and underemployment, 80%-plus of americans have a paying job and they will spend within those particular means, particularly in a world where there isn't a lot of credit. so this gdp number confirms more that we're in an extremely slow growth, troublesome economy that isn't going to help the people who are hurting. is benefitting the people who are benefited and that was going to be true whether the number was 1%, 3% or 0%. and it's going to be true for a long time. so these are important numbers to look at. every four -- every three months. but we're in the economy we're in, kind of whether or not it's a 1% number or 3% number in my view.

>> zachary carabell, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming on. mitt romney is getting hit from both sides. plus new poll numbers from the very early voting states. a political panel joins me next. first, white house soup of the day. we already had a tomato this week. i know this. i made the bad tomato joke. actually, i think i just gave up. but the president is back and so you'll just call it red roasted and pepper tomato? you are watching "the daily rundown" on msnbc. i not a number.

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the republican party. beth rhine shart a correspondent for "national journal" and michael scherrer is the white house correspondent for "time" magazine. mr. steele, let me start with you and what we've seen from both perry and romney this week in these backtracks with romney issue two, with perry, birtherism. who has had the rougher issue to explain to primary voters? >> i think in one sense it's perry with the birther issue because that's been put to bed. and i think it just sort of drudges up a national kind of what? that doesn't really help him move from the cellar where he is. i think more substantively coming out and laying out a plan on economics. and the day he does that, the message is stepped on with the birther question. so i think that when you look at the week in total, i think perry has gotten the shorter end of that stick by issue of raising an issue that people don't give a -- about and doing so in such

a way that it kills his message on economics. >> michael scherrer, what about the mitt romney back and forth when it comes to what's going on in ohio. are we going to see that as part of a laying out this story line that, you know, mitt romney is always trying to have it both ways? >> this is always been really the only story line that his opponents have had since 2008. it's like a virus. you have flare ups. and there's going to be over the course of the primary campaign if he wins it in the general, moments like this where he says something that sounds like it's contradicting something he said before and a whole new raft of ads. the romney campaign has been effective so far in trying to use this to their advantage. they've campaigned this time by saying he's a business consultant, not an ideologue. he's going to do what works, what makes the country get going again. but this is a classic case where he was running a general election campaign during the middle of a primary campaign and he's paying for it.

>> i want you to hear -- the other thing we learned overnight is that rick perry is going to not participate in as many debates as he has going forward. here's what rick perry said about the debates a couple days of ago. to me he was telegraphing this formal decision that was made last night. >> these debates are set up for nothing more than to tear down the candidates. it's pretty hard to be able to sit and lay out your ideas and your concepts with a one-minute response. if there was a mistake made it was probably ever doing one of the -- ever doing one of the campaigns when all they are interested in is stirring it up between the candidates. >> well, beth it does sound like the perry folks don't want to do any more debates. and if you look at their history, they believe he is better at doing the hand-to-hand campaigning. >> debates are definitely not his strong suit. that's obvious. but the other thing we've learned from this primary so far is that debates do matter. we have learned a lot about the

candidates. it's always fashionable to say there's too many debates. frankly, we've learned about the candidates have sort of revealed themselves in all of these debates. i'm not sure that perry is doing himself a favor. i think he needs to prove that he can go toe-to-toe with whether it's romney or eventually obama, and so he needs to get in the mix. >> michael steele if you are mitt romney, don't you want less debates now as well because every time we've had a debate it seems like the guy that benefits is herman cain. >> from romney's perspective, that may not be a bad thing. at the end of the day, it's all about organization on the ground when you are talking about the january 3rd kickoff in iowa. you are talking about the strategies that will lead up to that, getting the grassroots out. romney has that covered. for him, a debate or not debate. you tell me where i need to be or not to be. and that's what he'll do. he's already putting his -- put his noerorganization in place. others are trying to catch up to

where he is. this is just a path showing up the end. you saw it with the k street crowd lastd.c. with the k street crowd, last night at the gala. he's doing what he needs to do right now and it feels fairly comfortable but it shouldn't be two comfortable. >> the two michaels and beth, stick around. we'll talk a little polls after this. trivia time, we asked how many sitting senators previously served in the house of representatives? the answer is 48. thanks again to our friends at cq roll call for crunching those numbers. one of you actually got that right. to the flu. an accident... to asthma. a new heartbeat... to a heart condition. when you see your doctor, you don't face any medical issue alone. you do it together. at the american medical association, we're committed to preserving that essential partnership

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let's bring back our panel, michael steele, beth reinhart and michael sheerer.

some of the results very similar. here's their iowa numbers, romney 24, cain 21, paul, gingrich and perry basically down at 10%. here's new hampshire. romney 40, cain 14, paul 12, rick perry at 4 by the way. south carolina, romney 25, cain 23. here's florida. this is where where they had it a lot different than we had, they have romney at 30, herman cain at 18. but they all have one thing in common, michael sheerer scherer. >> if there's one guy he doesn't mind being beat by right now is herman cain. for someone like john huntsman, there's not a lot of room to

pick up slack. there's going to have to be a collapse for romney. he's very close to getting his number in new hampshire. mitt romney even in the debate doesn't mind herman cain outshining him. i don't think his campaign or most observers of this contest see him in a general election with cain. >> it was interesting yesterday because we heard herman cain start to make a move toward romney, beth. here's what herman cain said on the trail yesterday. >> back in the early 1990s when efs a business man running godfather's pizza, i had to fight hillary care. during the passage of obama care. i had to fight obama care. it seems as if many of my years have been fighting some kind of care, hillary care, obama care and now i got to fight romney care to get the nomination. >> there you go. you think herman cain's ready to bring the wood to romney? >> why not? i mean, he now has the poll numbers to back it up and people

are actually going to take him more seriously when he's criticizing romney than he did several weeks ago. >> is it an effective hit when herman cain goes after romney on health care? is he the best person in this field to do it credibly? >> i think he can do it credibly. how romney responds will be the rub. that's going to be a trek for romney. he doesn't want to geoff too many juice to cain because then those numbers could change for hip. >> they're playing my song. shameless plug time. >> check out the new info at my new web site steeleforum.com. it's all fun and games. >> michael scherer. >> there's a new book out called "backward ran sentences." i suggest everybody go to amazon and get it. >> look at you, the "time" magazine guy plugging a book

about writing. >> i want to say go to a blog about the campaign called decoded. you don't want to miss it. >> we've been updating all day long all the time. it's unbelievable stuff, you guys should be book marking it all the time after you check out national journal. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." bye-bye. hertz gold plus rewards. you earn free days, free weeks and more fast. that's a plus. upgrade your ride. that's a plus. rewards with no blackout dates so you can redeem anytime. and it's easy to redeem your points online. already a gold member ? just select gold plus rewards in your profile and start rewarding yourself now. just go to hertzgoldplusrewards.com to join. hertz gold plus rewards. journey on.