some answers. >> this is a story i wanted to get in, but you overruled me dave says say it's not so. kim and chris divorcing? is this the beginning or the end of the world? >> this is a big story. we thought long and hard in our meeting. i mean three seconds. then we didn't do it. in times of national crisis i like most americans turn for context and perspective to "the new york post." here's how they're covering it this morning. "morning joe" starts right now. do you, sir, know where the line is where inappropriate and appropriate -- are you like one of these over complimenters that just don't get it? i mean what -- and how do we know? >> i believe i have a good sense for where you cross the line relative to sexual harassment.

>> is that a roaming eye? >> i enjoy flowers like everybody else. >> you know what i mean. >> no. no, not at all. >> not at all. >> well, i wouldn't say not at all. it depends upon what you mean. >> trying to get a sense of whether or not you're one of those guys that's a little too friendly and a little too cozy when you're with a co-worker. >> here's what i can tell you. >> okay. >> i know i never made any innuen innuendos with the lady that filed the complaint that we were talking about. none. i have no idea who is egging this on, who's on this witch hunt, but i am convinced and my staff and i are convinced that it is intended to, one, distract us, and it is a distraction. secondly, a lot of people have a problem with the fact that i'm doing so well and i'm so

likeable. third, since they cannot shoot holes in my proposals, my plans, they're going to try to shoot holes in me the candidate. >> top of the hour. 6:00 on the east coast. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, november first. with us onset we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin and visiting professor at nyu former democratic congressman harold ford jr. good to have you on. >> good morning. >> how was halloween last night? >> it was great. i ate a lot of candy. how about you? >> did you really. >> i did. lots of kids. and then one kid stole all the candy. >> that was halperin. >> okay. >> we went to new york because i wasn't in connecticut. i was in new york last night. no power in connecticut. it's getting better though. >> must have been so tough to be the only one without power in

connecticut. the good people of connecticut light and power are working very hard to fix that. they are good people. >> that's right. >> but i was in new york and, you know, they've got this amazing thing in your neighborhood. >> yes. >> the upper west side, on 69th street. >> my street. >> from central park south all the way over to broadway -- >> a few streets. 87th, 95th. they go all the way up the upper west side. great. >> it's really cool for the kids. >> a halloween wonder land. >> it is. when we moved up from florida i was concerned about lack of neighborhoods. i'd grown up in, you know, suburbs my whole life. and this is very, very cool for the kids. they had a great time. they did. >> i live in the west village and it was -- the party was still happening. >> a different kind of party. >> yeah, not the party that we would -- >> a lot of flavor. >> not the party we would take our kids to, right? >> i wouldn't mind being there

but not for the kids. >> how did herman cain do yesterday? >> well, i guess it depends on who you ask. if you ask herman cain, he is a target. but there is a little bit of an evolution in his description of the story. >> that's really, you know, we really don't know what happened. only a small number of people know what happened back at the national restaurant association but we certainly know what he did yesterday. and it was the one inconsistency after another. mike huckabee thinks -- i thought it was fascinating -- he thinks this is another republican campaign that has set this rumor in motion. and that sounds about right. but sometimes campaigns will do that to see how somebody responds. herman cain's team and herman cain not the model of consistency yesterday. >> he wasn't. i think to go inside the zeitgeist of the political media establishment i think a lot of

people are skeptical about his story, whether he is telling the truth, and that will propel this forward up to a point. these are cases apparently that are under nondisclosure agreements. >> how far can they go? >> it's not clear. if there are never faces to the accounts of the women and no more facts that come out i think his poll numbers may go up. >> what responsibility does politico have? we'll ask whoever is coming on from politico but what responsibility does politico have to say what happened? because a few sketchy lines in there, one woman was uncomfortable with a gesture he made that was nonsexual but it was a bizarre description of an action of herman cain's a decade ago that politico described as nonsexual. >> they know more than they're saying and they're bound by their relationship with their sources. you have to trust them as a news organization. they took their time on this.

they did not rush this to print and they have the credibility to put this forward the way they did. they're taking some hits from the right but the story has not been challenged on its facts in any way. >> okay. other news we'll be getting to, europe still teetering because greece is -- the politicians of greece have decided to add uncertainty to an already uncertain situation. >> of course. >> also jon corzine -- >> a big story. >> a lot of -- not him personally. we don't know what his responsibility is in this -- but his organization going bankrupt and now under investigation. it'll be interesting to hear from harold his take on that. >> yep. we'll get to that but let's go through the herman cain story. he is now responding to the politico report a lot by the way that alleges at least two female employees complained of inappropriate behavior by cain while he was head of the national restaurant association back in the 1990s but as cain

and his campaign try to clear his name damage control has been a bit inconsistent. first, this is what cain said when he was confronted about the story by politico's jonathan martin on sunday. >> i'm not going to comment about two people that you won't tell me who they are. i'm not going to comment on that because, you know, i think that that is one of those kinds of things that until -- >> last question. thanks. last question. have you ever been accused of harassment? >> then yesterday on msnbc -- >> so there he says two women who you won't tell me who they are so obviously feigning ignorance of the entire situation. >> i have to -- okay. then yesterday on msnbc's "the daily rundown" cain's chief of staff dismissed the claims all together. >> herman cain has never

sexually harassed anybody, period, end of story. every negative word and accusation in the article is sourced to a series of unnamed or anonymous sources, and this is questionable at best. >> also yesterday cain himself spoke at the national press club dismissing the allegations as completely false. >> i would be delighted to clear the air. all of my 40 years of business experience, running businesses and corporations, i have never sexually harassed anyone. as far as a settlement, i am unaware of any sort of settlement. i hope it wasn't for much because i didn't do anything. but the fact of the matter is, i'm not aware of a settlement that came out of that accusation. i told you this bulls eye on my back has gotten bigger. we have no idea the source of this witch hunt, which is really what it is. we have no idea. we've been busy trying to get my

message out. >> so there he said he is unaware of any settlements. >> yeah. and just hours later, cain taped an interview with fox news and then he changed course completely, admitting he was aware of a settlement with an accuser. >> the general counsel comes in and says it's settled. >> yes. >> okay. did you ask like what did you do? >> i did. >> and what were you told? >> he said, this started out where she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement. >> how much? >> i don't remember the number. >> thousands or hundreds of thousands? >> thousands but i don't remember a number but then he said the good news is because there was no basis for this, we ended up settling for what would have been a termination settlement quite frankly. >> what would that be about? >> maybe three months' salary or something like that. >> we'll keep going. >> there's more.

>> i know. we'll keep going. but the juxtaposition of those two clips and i'm sorry for -- going to be just really blunt about it -- showed he was clearly lying. there is no nice word for it. clearly lying in front of the national press club just hours before when he said, quote, i'm unaware of any settlement. again weer again, we don't know what happened behind closed doors, we do know he was caught lying on a scandal, alleged scandal that was ten days in the making. >> right. >> it's not like he was surprised in a deposition about information. >> right. >> about somebody. he had ten days to prepare a response for this and he lied on national tv in front of the national press corps. let's keep going. what happened next? >> well, there was an interview. he had his media appearance at fox and cain outside was confronted by reporters and asked about the discrepancies in

the story. >> when you remember everything about an incident from 12 years ago and the other thing is politico said that was a settlement. i know that was an agreement. whether it was a settlement, agreement, or whether it was termination papers -- i don't remember what it was called. so that choice of words i'm not going to say that it's changing my tune. they use the word "settlement." i know that the restaurant association had an agreement with this lady. >> then he went on pbs and remembered part of an incident. take a listen. >> one incident with the one who made the formal charge, the only one that i could recall after a day of trying to remember specifics was once i referenced this lady's height and i was standing near her and i did this saying, you're the same height as my wife. because my wife is five feet tall and she comes up to my

chin. this lady is five feet tall and she came up to my chin. so ob lviously she thought that was too close for comfort. >> you know, willie, we had said a couple days ago when it came to domestic policy, his tax plan, foreign policy, that herman cain was making it up as he went along. yesterday was a perfect example. there is nothing but chaos here. i don't know how any conservative, forget his ideology, whatever that is, because he is making that up, too. one day he is pro choice. the next he's pro life. one day he wants to release prisoners in gitmo the next he doesn't. despite the -- all of these facts, publications like "the national review" line up in defense of herman cain as if defending herman cain is defending conservativism which i would suggest after yesterday's circus act by everybody involved

in this, that really typifies what's been wrong with the conservative movement over the past several years. but all that being said, herman cain made a fool of himself yesterday. made it up as he went along and, i guess, one, two, three, four -- contradicted himself about five times. >> you don't want to show your work so to speak on the presidential campaign. give us the clean, final answer. he said at the end of the day, he said, i don't recall signing a settlement agreement. that doesn't mean i didn't sign a settlement agreement. i just don't recall it. if you get an e-mail on october 20th, your campaign does from jonathan martin or somebody at politico, you have now ten days to figure out what exactly -- how to go back and talk to the national restaurant association, figure out, get the information from them. we heard over the course of 12 hours last night four or five different versions of the story they should have had nailed ten days ago. >> and, by the way, you can nail this one in two sentences. baseless claims were brought

against me ten years ago. they're categorically untrue. and i refuse to -- whatever -- respond to any other accusations. something like that. >> we're talking about the way he handled the story. we still need to figure out what allegedly took place and that is going to require some help from the national restaurant association. they have a report on file somewhere and they need to help herman cain and bring that out if his version of the story is in fact true he needs them to help put that out to the public. >> i think only herman cain can do that because there is a nondisclosure. >> can i try the other side of this if there is one and there might be? >> yes. >> there always is. so these two women, have either of them come out and spoken publicly? >> no, they can't. >> right. they can't. why? >> because there is a nondisclosure agreement. they were paid a certain amount of money. >> because they were paid. okay. >> and in return -- >> that is something to keep in mind. >> in return they promised not to say anything. >> right.

so these two women with alleged stories took money for their silence and we'll never hear from them. are there any other women coming out when they hear about this stepping forward because they want to show a pattern? >> i don't understand your point. >> i'm just saying we don't really know what happened at all. we have to be really careful and it is probably planted by another campaign. this is what campaigns do and it's completely side tracked him. >> i think another republican campaign planted this story but at the same time, this speaks to herman cain's fitness as a presidential candidate. >> totally. >> not the underlying story itself. >> right. >> the way he handled it. >> but harold ford -- >> i'm not denying that. >> -- the embarrassing way he handled this story. again, being caught in a lie and then trying to explain his way out of a lie like a sixth grader. it's embarrassing if you, as he has stated, i heard him say repeatedly yesterday, he has never sexually

harassed anyone, it would appear to me what willie said, ten days of trying to answer this, give the answer and move on but he changed the answer and in politics and public life when you do that you invite more and more questions and skepticism and probably creates more problems for his campaign. >> you'd have trouble getting away with this, harold, if you were running for congress. >> uryou'd have problems gettin away with this in your home let alone running for congress. >> a good way to put it. but he is running for president of the united states and goes before the national press corps in the morning saying categorically that he is, quote, unaware of any settlements, and six hours later he describes -- >> right. >> his discussion with the general counsel and the settlements claiming in the morning he never talked to hr or general counsel. >> had he just answered it fully and honestly from the outset he probably wouldn't be facing this -- >> mark, what is the impact on the race, anything?

>> i think if the status quo, if there are no additional facts and there's anything that diverts the story line away from this i think his numbers will go slightly up. but there are still going to be more facts. >> why would the numbers go slightly up? >> because what is fueling herman cain, what has fueled his rise is an anti-washington, anti-liberal establishment rallying around someone who has the right profile for that sentiment in the party and there's a lot of conservative voices, rush limbaugh and others out there saying this is an attack on our guy because he's rising so much. >> do you think other republicans are doing this or your sources, people in the media believing this is as joe said earlier maybe fueled by republicans? >> it is but i don't think it matters. what matters is the underlying facts and how he handles it. i don't think the source really matters. >> there is in conservative quarters such a desperate cry that anybody but mitt romney -- that you see people like rush limbaugh and laura ingram and

the "national review" desperately searching for an alternative. and right now herman cain is the only viable alternative. you know, rush, like rick perry, a couple months ago, maybe he still likes him. i don't know. but it just shows there is no strong, conservative -- i guarantee you if jeb bush or paul ryan or chris christie were in this race -- maybe not chris christie. >> mike pence. >> mike pence. if mike pence were in this, rush limbaugh would be making fun of herman cain today but there is no conservative stalwart to go to and mitt romney as he proved in ohio last week is simply not a conservative. he doesn't -- he doesn't believe. he may speak -- he may say the right words 95% of the time now but you do not go to john kasich's home state in ohio and waffle like that on an issue that has defined the conservative cause over the past

six months and waffle as he did and walk away from that with anybody believing that in your gut you were a true, bed rock conservative. he's not. so they defend a man yesterday who just embarrassed himself and his family and everybody involved with the cain campaign. >> you know, i was talking to parents of trick or treaters yesterday and they weren't talking about the herman cain story. they were shaken, though, by the rick perry video that we showed. >> rick perry is a lucky man. rick perry is a lucky man. >> but it's still broke -- in the conversations with people it wasn't about herman cain. that was boring. >> people not interested in politics generally, it broke through to them? >> no, they're really concerned. they used to be, many of them were sort of interested in perry. not anymore after seeing that video. >> you know, what helps herman cain day in and day out is he is a likeable guy. he's got an amazing american story and there are a lot of people who aren't involved in the politics that cheer for him. he's just got, you know, a

little discipline. i'm not asking for a lot of discipline from these republican candidates. okay? it's what i'm saying with sarah palin. just a little discipline. just a little bit as far as shaping your message. same, you know -- >> you're asking for more than discipline. >> i'm just going to be quiet. >> coming up tom brokaw, michael steele, arizona governor jan brewer and mort zuckerman will be here. lat later will ferrell picks up his mark twain award and then watches it shatter on the ground. >> i love that guy. >> all right. let's go to bill karins to check on the forecast. good morning. still a million people roughly without power. mostly in connecticut. also the majority of those happen to be down in new jersey and southern new york. temperature still cold in those areas so another brutal area to be sitting in your house with

blankets on top of you. this afternoon a little better. a slow warmup for areas with snow on the ground. only 50 in hartford. by the end of the week most of the snow should be gone. here is a look at the extended forecast. as we do get up to 59 on thursday that will really take a chunk of snow away. the next snowstorm is on the way heading from wyoming and colorado today. travel trouble spot denver tomorrow with about four inches expected. middle of the country what a gorgeous start to november. dallas to st. louis to kansas city to chicago. enjoy the warm weather while it lasts. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ ben harper's "amen omen" playing ] we believe doing the right thing never goes unnoticed. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

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>> best case scenario that dude's hammered. worst case scenario? that is perry sober and every time we've seen him previously, he's been hammered. or there is one other explanation. rick perry just got back from the dentist. >> is this real life? i can't see anything. ah! >> that tax base expansion. ah! >> my gosh. that's just too good. i'm sorry. >> i was born on a farm. >> maybe herman cain's not that -- >> i love that. >> take a look at the morning papers. >> this guy, you know, our guest yesterday said it made him very likeable. >> let me explain this please. "the washington post" says president obama will open two

days of the g-20 economic summit on thursday with a pair of bilateral meetings dealing with the european debt crisis. obama is scheduled to meet with french president nicolas sarkozy and german chancellor angela merkel to discuss the international response. >> and the independent panel that organizations presidential debates has four big ones lined up for next october. the first debate between president obama and his republican challenger will be at the university of denver, then at hofstra university in monew york. the third is at lynn university in boca raton and the debate between the vice presidential candidates will be at centre college in danville, kentucky. >> to our parade of papers "the dallas morning news" says law enforcement officials announced the breakup of a massive drug smuggling ring that used lookouts on hill tops in southern arizona to move huge amounts of drugs across the mexican border. we're going to talk more about securing the border coming up

with arizona governor jan brewer. >> in the "birmingham news" it might be the ultimate convenience for anyone creating a stake. a company in alabama has introduced what is believed to be the state's first raw meat vending machine. >> no, no. where is this? alabama? >> roll tide. i always said i was born a little too early. just think. i could have been enjoying this at the university of alabama. >> come on. >> a raw meat vending machine. it is amazing. >> get a rib eye steak. >> that is awful. >> the crazy thing, it's not only amazing but good for you, too. >> no it's not. >> red meat? my gosh. the iron. >> so bad for you. >> no. it lubricates the joints. it's wonderful. >> i love red meat. >> joe, just gross. that is gross. >> can i borrow 70 g to use that >> that is a good question. >> seriously. >> put a raw -- you know what?

put a raw meat vending machine in front of me and i will answer your question. i will answer it. yes. >> well it's in alabama so go help yourself. >> roll tide. >> roll tide. >> those roll tide commercials are funny. >> they are. >> the ones where people do whatever they're doing at roll tide. >> all i can say is two national championships from the great state of alabama two years in a row, two different colleges and i'm just guessing they're going to be three after this year. >> we know the line on that game? >> alabama is the 3.5-point favorite. >> what is the deal? >> i certainly would take alabama minus the points. amazing. >> they should play again for the national championship. >> i hope this doesn't hurt them, that matchup again. >> the national championship will be in new orleans. so it would be a home at home if, in fact -- >> that's kind of fun. >> this is how it is.

but we're getting ahead of ourselves because alabama might beat them by three or four touchdowns. then obviously they're playing oklahoma. >> oklahoma state. >> oklahoma state. >> got to keep moving. >> you got stanford. probably got the best shot. >> still got to play oregon who's great. >> willie? >> okay. >> thank you. >> sorry. mika is furious. >> yes. >> stanford -- they're not going to get out of the pac 20 or whatever it is. >> mika says let's go. mike, good morning. >> good morning, willie. don't forget the health benefits of red wine. >> yes. that's right. wash down the raw meat with the red wine. mike, let's talk about the story everybody has been talking about in the political world for the last 24 hours. your story about herman cain. any new details this morning? some of the critique from the cain campaign and others was that the anonymous sources were responsible for giving you this information without much detail. anything else you can tell us today? >> the anonymous sources turned

out to be exactly right, and herman cain violated a number of basic laws of political damage control management. one of them is pick a story and stick to it. his campaign did not do that over ten days. the politico held off on this story to give them plenty of time to get the facts, decide what they were going to say. their story kept evolving and after the story posted what herman cain said kept evolving. first he seemed to deny it though he didn't really. then he said that he didn't know anything about the settlements. now he says, yeah. the settlement was maybe two or three months of salary. so quite a bit more about it. he has had to tell a different story every time either he or a member of his campaign went on tv, not a formula for success. >> mike, will we learn any more specifics about these allegations say from the national restaurant association or is that nondisclosure

agreement covering all that? because a lot of people are wondering what these allegations are. what exactly he was accused of doing. >> willie, i think it is unlikely to come out through the restaurant association but karl rove has been out there saying something like this in politics that it eventually will come out so that's why he was urging the cain campaign to go ahead and put out the facts. it would have been good for them to do 12 days ago but better now than tomorrow because eventually one of these women will talk on camera. eventually somebody's documents which are floating around among lawyers will come out. herman cain gave a hint of what it had to do with yesterday when he said that maybe some of the women didn't get his sense of humor, so the just kidding defense probably not very good either. >> mark? >> well, in politics as karl rove's comment last night suggested something that is famous for not being public is usually eventually made public despite the nondisclosure agreements and i think cain is going to have to address this

again despite his attempts yesterday to talk a lot and put it behind him. >> mike, you had cain defenders yesterday seizing on a line politico wrote about gestures made by cain toward these women that were, quote, nonsexual in nature. just to confirm you have evidence of sexually inappropriate behavior? >> the women said he made them feel uncomfortable that way. there is an estimate this is the biggest single twitter controversy of the campaign, 48,000 mentions of herman cain on twitter yesterday more than the mention of any republican candidate ever. >> but is there anything specific in the allegations politico has regarding, quote, sexual behavior or misconduct? >> we saw jonathan martin say yesterday on "morning joe" that there was a suggestion of an invitation up to a hotel room.

maybe it was just for the mini bar. >> okay. all right. >> the story will continue. we'll be checking back with you on it. thanks, mike. >> coming up monday night football overtime game, chargers and chiefs strange end to a game. steven colbert travels in disguise to downtown manhattan to hang with the occupy wall streeters then brings them up to his penthouse to eat room service. keep it on "morning joe."

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time for some sports. a little overtime in monday night football last night in kansas city. chiefs and chargers fighting to stay on top in the afc west. a bumpy season for san diego quarterback philip rivers. first just a terrible pass. completely misses his tight end. but right into the hands of the chiefs. had a heck of a game last night. >> rivers now the end of the season with more picks than touchdowns. chiefs take advantage of the

chargers' mistakes. an interception, jonathan baldwin in the end zone. nice grab. 39 yards. skip ahead to the fourth quarter. chargers had pulled to within eight on four field goals. on the chiefs' 2 yard line, the ball pops out. the chiefs appear to recover. but go to the replay. it shows brinkley extend the ball up over the goal line. that is a touchdown right there. it was ruled a touchdown. chargers convert on the two-point attempt to tie the game at 20. minute left to play. chargers have the ball and the chiefs' 15 yard line setting up the game-winning field goal but on first and ten rivers mishandles the snap and the chiefs recover. that burns because the game goes to overtime and the chiefs make them pay with an easy 30-yard field goal. kansas city wins, 23-20. so three way tie on top of the afc west. chiefs, chargers, raiders, all 4-3. tim tebow and the bronx downstairs at 2-5.

>> the chiefs and raiders in first place like the '70s like they should always be. >> old school. >> lynn dawson days. >> my gosh. very good. >> i was a huge chiefs fan. my dad and brother were raiders fans. ugly saturdays. fist fights with 5-year-olds. go chiefs, baby. >> bitter sweet ending to an incredible season for the world champion st. louis cardinals. yesterday manager tony la russa announcing he will retire from baseball after a 33-year career just days after he led his team to the world series title. la russa walks away from a hall of fame career. he is third all time in regular season wins, second all time in postseason wins with 70. that trails only jor torre who has 84. la russa joins sparky anderson as the only two managers ever to win world series titles in each league. '89 la russa won with oakland and in 2006 and this year with the cardinals. >> why did he quit? >> because he went out on top. he's been there 33 years.

he is 67, 66 years old. >> what do you think about yankees give c.c. sabathia $22 million -- >> had to do it. he'd have gotten it someplace else. >> like the meat vending machines. they pay by the pound. >> they had to hang on to him. >> up next the must read opinion pages. sun life financialrating should be famous.d bad, we're working on it. so you're seriously proposing we change our name to sun life valley. do we still get to go skiing? sooner or later, you'll know our name. sun life financial.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 43 past the hour. >> you know what we've been talking about this morning? >> you've been -- no. you have been talking to it. and it's a little strange. >> mark, you can tell us about the new iphone 4.

>> it's strange. >> got it yesterday. and it's absolutely amazing. what is the population? what is the population of new york? it pops up and gives you -- oh, absolutely amazing. i'm not going to do this right now on the air. you can talk into this and say i want sushi. it goes hold on i'll give you all the sushi restaurants. it pops up. we talked about stanford. what is the population of palo alto? it is complete with charts. it is amazing. >> i just said to mark i think they've underplayed this at apple. this is like the biggest technological advancement of our time. you can talk to an inanimate object and it gives what you want in life. if you put that in a movie ten years ago you'd have laughed. now we're doing it. >> it is like the jetsons. >> seriously, this thing is amazing. >> i hate to continue to be a speaker for apple but i can't

imagine anyone wanting any other phone than that. >> you push the button and say who is socrates? it tells you. i want pizza. it shows you where the pizzas are. >> please. let joe have me do must reads and tell him to stop talking. >> i don't understand. >> anyway -- >> okay. >> didn't work. that thing is a piece of junk. okay. >> before we get to "must reads." >> ask who wins, alabama or lsu. love to hear that answer. >> you go ahead. i'll work on this. >> before we get to must reads. >> who wins the alabama game? >> listen to how he talks like he needs a certain tone. it's just strange. federal regulators have opened an investigation into how the now bankrupt securities firm mf global after discovering that $700 million in customer money has gone missing. that's according to the "new york times" which reports the discovery ended a last-minute deal to sell part of mf global

to a rival company. a deal the company needed to stay afloat. instead of making that deal the firm headed by former new jersey governor and goldman sachs chief jon corzine filed for chapter 11 protection yesterday. now the investigation centers on whether mf global diverted customer funds to support its own trades. the "new york times" notes that neither mf global nor mr. corzine have been accused of any wrongdoing. but that is not holding opinion writers from writing about corzine this morning including "the wall street journal" which we'll get to in just a moment. but first the "new york times." corzine crashes like it's 2008. when goldman sachs went public on may 4th, 1999 jon corzine who was then the firm's chief executive held a stake that was suddenly valued at $305 million. perhaps it is uncharitable to complain about the pid ling $12 million severance he was poised to gain if he had managed to sell his current firm mf global

holdings over the weekend. but i am going to complain anyway. the idea that corzine, who single handedly destroyed mf global holdings was in a position to command so much as a penny in severance is horrifying. it suggests two things. the first is the extent to which heads i win tails you lose remains the operative concept for wall street compensation. the second is that one's politics doesn't much matter when it comes to lining one's pockets. corzine is an avowed liberal who has decried some income inequality and wall street pay. but right up until the end, he had his hand out for millions he didn't deserve. >> a lot to talk about there, harold. first of all, what is wall street saying? what are the insiders saying about jon corzine? is the charge fair that he, quote, single handedly destroyed this company? >> i don't know what insiders are saying. i think joe's point is a valid one. >> what are you hearing? >> well, understand what mf

global did. they made a big bet on the european sovereign debt market. almost $6 billion. their appetite for it was obviously too large. the second point, which mika raised, the question that's being investigated, could be vatded, is whether or not they used personal account money. this is what the volcker rule tries to get at to separate individual accounts, segregate individual accounts from the trading operations of a firm, whether there was any criminality there. i don't know the answer to that. >> why would jon corzine -- >> poorly -- >> worth hundreds of millions right? he is a very wealthy man. he wouldn't have any incentive to fool around with this stuff would he? >> well, in terms of -- i'm not sure there was any criminality here. this is not to defend mf global but they made a big bet and were wrong. >> yeah. >> i think "the wall street journal" -- >> that happens. >> it's called capitalism. i do agree it doesn't make sense to anyone whether you work on wall street or not why if you fail and you lose money, you lose huge amounts of money why you would be entitled to any

type of compensation. this has nothing to do with jon. >> no. unfortunately, it is very hard to reconcile. >> not the first time we've seen this. >> this is what's been happening on wall street. people destroy companies and make tens of millions of dollars. it's sick. again, i don't know what jon's position is here. >> i'm not an insider on this. i work on wall street. >> yeah. >> but this is what people find revolting in the industry and i can assure you this is not something that people outside the industry have a monopoly on. people in the industry as well don't like it. >> really quick, big picture, "the wall street journal", pulling a corzine they call it to prevent future bailouts on this side of the atlantic the key is to understand that big bank ceos can also be tempted to pull a corzine. to protect taxpayers from the consequences the solution is very high capital standards for the biggest firms. this will create a larger cushion so they are less likely to fail and it may be an incentive for many firms to avoid getting too big in the first place or to get smaller if they are already too big. then they can do a corzine for

as long as their shareholders let them. >> right. again, this firm failed so this is for those who have been critical of bailouts or investments from the government this is what should happen when a firm makes a big bet and it doesn't work out whom ever the person, be it small, medium, or large they should suffer the consequences. and apparently jon corzine is not going to be compensated for what happened here. had he sold the company he would have according to joe. >> if only we could be assured that all big banks or all big companies had failed wouldn't be bailed out by taxpayers but we are still looking at that with five or six banks. >> willie's news you can't use is next. i'd like one of those desserts and some coffee. sure. cake or pie? pie. apple or cherry? cherry. oil or cream? oil or cream? cream. reddi-wip uses real dairy cream. nothing's more real than reddi-wip.

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please tell me it's time. we need it. >> yes. it's time for some news you can't use. will ferrell was given the mark twain prize for american humor last week at the kennedy center in washington. that show aired last night on pbs. will ferrell was given this prestigious prize, beautiful bust of mark twain, and then he promptly dropped it as you can see. >> what? >> right there on the stage. all part of a bit you'll be relieved to know. >> oh. >> as i staert thre at this magnificent bust of mark twain i'm reminded of how humbled i am to receive such an honor and how

i vow to take very special care of it. if my children try to touch it, or even look at it, i will beat them. vivica, all i can say is, thank you. and thank god i found you. you, um, you've given us three beautiful boys and we have a wonderful life together. but i do have to say sometimes you get a little lippy. and i'll tell you one thing and one thing only okay? tonight is my night. all right? do you hear me? i mean, tonight if i -- after the show if i want to go on a bender, with gwen eiffel i'm going to do it. okay? and there's nothing you can say

to stop me. i love you. >> good job by will ferrell last night. a really good show. very funny. coming up michael steele will join us. also our friend mort zuckerman joins the table. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] from an earache... to the flu. an accident... to asthma. a new heartbeat... to a heart condition. when you see your doctor, you don't face any medical issue alone. you do it together. at the american medical association, we're committed to preserving that essential partnership between patients and their doctors. because when it comes to your health, you need someone you trust. the ama. protecting the relationship between patients and physicians.

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have you ever had to settle a claim, given money or paid someone because of a claim of harassment or sexual misconduct? >> at the restaurant

association. now outside of the restaurant association absolutely not. >> the restaurant association is the one they're trying -- you -- you can't just go, well, other than that, no. i mean, have you ever kidnapped a baby? well other than the lindbergh boy, no. if he's telling the truth, he's just a night church-going guy and everything he does now is tainted by these allegations. even his simple love of ice cream. >> black walnut because it tastes good all the time. >> just sounds really dirty now. and that clip of herman cain smiling at the end of his political ad. that commercial is just always going to play with different music in people's heads now. ♪ stop looking at my black

walnuts. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." he's good. mark halperin and harold ford jr. with us. joining the table the chief of u.s. news and world report and chairman and copublisher of the new york daily news mort zuckerman at the table. >> he's good, too. >> in washington nbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. >> right. >> good to see you. >> good to see you guys. >> $700 million. that's what's missing. >> wow. can you believe that? >> it's a big story. we'll start there. i know we just talked about this in must reads but it is worth talking about with mort here as well. federal regulators are looking into a now bankrupt securities firm mf global after discovering $700 million in customer money has gone missing. that is according to the "new york times" which reports the discovery ended a last-minute deal to sell part of mf global to a rival, a deal the company

needed to stay afloat. instead of making the deal the firm headed by jon corzine filed for chapter 11 protection yesterday. the investigation centers on whether mf global diverted customer funds to support its own trades. >> i don't understand this, mort, at all. you have a guy like jon corzine, good guy, knows the street, understands what happened in 2008. there are so many things i don't understand, why he would risk his good name first of all. secondly why he would invest, make one -- his firm would make one of the riskiest investments possible. >> the worst investment possible. by the way, investing this kind of money in european debt, this was a risky thing when he did it. i mean, i don't know what he expected would come out of it. to risk the entire firm on one bet basically at this stage of the game, he just goes into it within a matter of months and puts the entire -- >> would you call that decision reckless?

negligent? where would -- because harold was just saying, if he'd had a couple weeks if europe had turned around they would have been fabulously wealthy. >> if it's not only reckless, i mean, it's irrational beyond belief. i don't care what -- >> so you haven't made any investments of this kind over the past six months. >> if i did, i made it through people who were doing it and i didn't know about it. >> right. >> because anybody who's been watching what is going on there, that is the single most serious danger to the entire western business world now. you could see a complete collapse of the european financial world within a matter of days or weeks. now, i mean -- >> and the impact here if that happens, we'll get to that story in a moment -- >> most of america, too. >> sure. >> it looks like the people of greece want that to happen. i can't believe how reckless they're being. but if that happens we're all in trouble. >> we're all in deep trouble because it's a contagion effect. you will lose confidence in the financial system which is

already weak. that is absolutely critical. it is going to be destroyed in european. you could have the destruction of huge parts of the european economy in a matter of weeks now. >> we have to underline this fact. jon corzine has not been accused of any wrongdoing yet you just wonder how a guy that was respected on wall street, respected as a senator, respe respected as a governor, beaten by chris christie, a better political candidate with a message that resonated with the times but why he would make such a bet on europe and basically bet his good name. >> you know -- >> and the whole firm. >> the whole firm. >> on one roll of the dice. >> as mort said he took a solid firm, leveraged and leveraged and made some enormous bets. >> right. >> and it turned out wrong. i think two other things come out of this. mort has touched on one. the challenges in europe, the

contagion effect and devastating effect it could have on the economy here and the impact on the presidential race next year. >> the last thing we need right now. >> as we begin to see manufacturing tick up, china faces challenges, if we can't deal with the europe thing we got a problem. but to the volcker rule which calls for separation of moneys used in firms for trading and individual accounts, if indeed this allegation is true, which we don't know with the "new york times" states this morning naturally it spells some other questions, related to other questions the firm has to answer but it probably fuels the conversation in washington around support for the volcker rule. >> we'll get to more europe news in a minute but first michael steele you have a thought. jump in. >> i think this plays to the whole problem that people have right now with big money interests not just here in the united states but dwloeglobally. here you have this firm that bet against the idea of what the trend lines were saying. the economies of europe and the united states were on a very rocky shore.

was not a time to make those types of bets. and they did. they came up short big time. now you'll have this ripple effect you were just talking about that is going to redouble people's effort if you will to crack down on profligate spending, wild hedges into the future and a more conservative approach to financial marx. europe is teetering, the united states not far behind it, and the folks occupying wall street now look like they have the most resonate message not for just folks in the u.s. but in europe. >> the prime minister of greece has announced a referendum on last week's last-minute bailout deal. >> wow. >> some officials there believe a no vote. >> unbelievable. >> to be eliminated from the euro zone. >> you see people protesting in the street. their recklessness, fiscal recklessness over the past 30 years has put europe on the

brink. could put the world economy on the brink. they are rescued through the goodness of germany and france and their european neighbors and now they want to stick a sharp stick in their eye and you just sit there at some point and want to tell greece, if you could tell greece to go to hell it would be a wonderful thing to say but you can't do it. they're holding europe hostage. >> they now have a deficit at a percentage of gdp that is somewhere around 14% or 15%. that's the deficit. they are spending much more money than they have. their people aren't paying taxes. everybody comes in and bails them out and they say, well i'm sorry. we may not accept your wonderful large largess and they could literally destroy the european banking system within a matter of weeks. >> which would impact us. >> it would impact everybody because we have a lot of exports, financial dependence on europe. >> by the way, jon corzine is a good -- i mean, that is a good

way to educate americans who have been asking, how does this affect me? there are a lot of banks. >> right. >> a lot of companies that have invested in europe. they haven't bet the entire bank as jon corzine did on europe but you will see this throughout the entire banking industry, throughout mutual funds, throughout hedge funds. so an entire continent's banking system cannot go down without impacting your retirement. >> they will shut down lending. they will shut down the financial system to deal with this. it will have a huge effect on all of europe's economy which is bound to have a rebound effect on us and that's the last thing we need as you were implying before. >> you touch on exports, everything. this impacts every aspect of the economy. >> now to politics. herman cain responding to the politico report that alleges at least two female employees complained of inappropriate behavior by cain while he was the head of a national restaurant association back in the 1990s. but as cain and his campaign tried to clear his name, his damage control has been a bit

inconsistent. first, this is what cain said when he was confronted about the story by politico's jonathan martin on sunday. >> i'm not going to comment about two people who you won't tell me who they are. okay? that's like negotiating -- i'm not going to comment on that because, you know, i think that that is one of the kinds of things that until -- >> now the last question. have you ever been accused of harassment? >> then yesterday on msnbc's "the daily rundown" cain's chief of staff mark block dismissed the claims all together. >> herman cain has never sexually harassed anybody, period, end of story. every negative word and accusation in the article is sourced to a series of unnamed or anonymous sources and this is questionable at best. >> also yesterday cain himself spoke at the national press club

dismissing the allegations as completely false. >> i would be delighted to clear the air. in all of my over 40 years of business experience, running businesses and corporations, i have never sexually harassed anyone. as far as a settlement, i am unaware of any sort of settlement. i hope it wasn't for much. because i didn't do anything. but the fact of the matter is i'm not aware of a settlement that came out of that accusation. i told you this bulls eye on my back has gotten bigger. we have no idea the source of this witch hunt which is really what it is. we have no idea. we've been busy trying to get my message out. >> then he went to fox and changed his course again. >> the general counsel comes in and says it's settled. >> yes. >> okay. did you ask like what did you do? >> i did. >> what were you told?

>> he said, this started out where she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement. >> how much? >> i don't remember the number. >> thousands or hundreds of thousands? >> thousands but i don't remember a number but then he said the good news is because there was no basis for this, we ended up settling for what would have been a termination settlement quite frankly. >> what will that be about? >> maybe three months' salary or something like that. >> it happens again and again. you want to hear them all? >> no. michael steele. >> no more, please. no more. >> michael -- >> there are like four more. >> he said in the morning he was unaware of any settlements. >> yeah. >> a few hours later he describes in great detail his conversation with general counsel about the settlements. i don't understand how this man survives. we don't know about the underlying claims because nobody

is talking about those. >> right. >> but just based on him lying throughout the day how does he survive in this primary process? >> it's going to be tough but i think a couple things. one, i think there is a reservoir of support for him that's going to stay with -- you know, i think that sentiment about the liberal media coming after him is misplaced actually. this is from like, i agree with mr. huckabee. this is from inside the gop. this is one of his rivals' camp getting this information but what is problematic is the fact that herman cain had a nine to ten-day runup to this story hitting the airwaves. and there was nothing done. there was no home work. there was no diligence. his campaign manager was not brought in. there was not this conversation about how do we develop the message and stick with it and roll it out and move on. so now you've got these stories that make him look like he's lying or that he is trying to

hide something, which may not be the fact but he has created this perception now that i think is going to dog him. if there is any further revelation, this is going to be a very, very slow burn for him toward the end. >> so best case scenario, what could this be? i keep trying to look at the other side of the story because we don't have victims that are speaking out in a very specific way. we have these two elusive stories of women who were apparently paid off. we don't even know if they're actually talking, and if they are they're not supposed to be if they were paid off. >> right. >> so i'm skeptical as to how this all went down and if you think that another campaign was behind this. >> well, it went down because, clearly, there were allegations made, clearly the company that he was in charge of dealt with those allegations by agreeing to a settlement. the problem here is a watergate problem. it's not so much what happened. it's how you handled it after the fact when it's brought up. how you deal with it with the

press. if herman had come out and said when he was first confronted with this yeah there were allegations of that. that was dismissed because they were baseless. the company paid them severance and that was it. that's a different scenario to have a conversation in than the one we're in right now. in terms of the politics of it, certainly having the campaign that is as unstable as his, no real organization in place, no real structure, you throw this bomb into the middle of the room. it goes off. there is no coordination, no control. so now his campaign is in disarray. the other campaigns have the opportunity to kind of fill this void that's being created by herman's distraction with this event. >> yeah. >> this ain't over. there's going to be more stuff coming out one way or another. this is just the first drip of a lot of water that's going to be coming out it seems to me. you cannot avoid it once you start off with this kind of the vague story that you had before.

you just can't -- you cannot put this to bed under these circumstances. >> so, mark halperin, if you have sarah palin being the alternative to mitt romney and then not and then michele bachmann -- or trump and then not and then michele bachmann and then not and then perry being the alternative to romney and then not and now cain being the alternative and then let's say this hits him and he collapses, who is next? >> well, the perry super pac went on tv with positive ads for perry, is going on. eventually i think they'll go on with negative ads against romney. >> you think perry has a second life in this act? >> almost by necessity both because he has under performed in terms of his actual skills and because there is this vacuum. right now he is still, because of the fund raising and the super pac the best position. romney is going to need more than 25% of the vote to be the nominee. and -- there's a lot left to claim out there. and if cain falls, and i don't

think he will based on the current facts -- but if cain falls someone is going to be there to be the alternative. >> you look at all the polls it looks like there is about a 24%, 25% ceiling for mitt romney, which would seem about right. about 24%, 25% of republican primary voters are moderates. >> as we get closer to the actual voting when it's time to pick a president i think his numbers will go up unless these negative ads -- romney's -- unless the negative ads keep them down which is a real possibility. >> four years ago today in iowa in four polls that were run in three of those four polls fred thompson was leading in iowa. it's a long way to go. romney can recover. i do think there is something to be said for what mark is saying. if there is not more on cain i think conservatives will stick with him for the reasons you laid out earlier, joe, they're looking for a candidate. but perry, i've been watching some of his ads in iowa. they're good. if he is able to give back his footing and i don't understand what he was trying to achieve with that presentation. looked like a mark twain ferrell

presentation, the presentation the other night in iowa. if he is able to get back ontrack he could gain some traction and pick up some of what cain left off but four years ago fred thompson was leading the nomination. >> rudolph guiliani. >> as you said before. which again, went on then to be mike huckabee. >> who was running 8% at this point. >> then mitt romney has now run -- and mccain was low -- which suggests mitt romney has been running for the republican nomination for eight years now and it seems like the republican base is in constant search for somebody else. and that continues. >> he's still strong. weak and strong at the same time. >> afwree with that. i think the one thing he has, he is seen as the best opportunity to beat obama. >> okay. up next, her new book is called "scorpions for breakfast." we'll talk to arizona governor jan brewer who writes about her

fight to secure her state's border. also, tom brokaw will be here this hour but first bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> "working with scorpions." i can do that too. i'll leave the jokes to you guys. good morning everyone. still about a million people without power in areas of connecticut, new jersey, and southern new york. a few in massachusetts, too. nice weather today for the power crews to get things back online. 50 degrees for the high in connecticut. 52 in boston. much of new jersey today in the mid to upper 50s. we have another winter storm. this one is only going to hit wyoming and colorado. we already have a winter weather advisory for denver. winter storm warnings from cheyenne to casper and the white on the map the snow is going to begin during the day today and continue to tomorrow. only about 4 to 6 inches but still going to cause some travel inconveniences in that region. if you want a beautiful start to your november you've fwot it today from texas all the way up to chicago. enjoy a perfect start to november. nice shot of d.c. too. no complaints down there. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i remember the days before copd.

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we'll have a real fence, 20 feet high, with barbed wire. electrified. with a sign on the other side that says, it can kill you. it'll be in english and spanish. >> okay. 22 past the hour. michael steele still with us in washington and joining us now on the set the republican governor of arizona, governor jan brewer. governor brewer is author of the new book "scorpions for breakfast." my fight against special interests, liberal media, and cynical politicos to secure

america's border. >> you got them all. this is exciting. >> take us on. i guess we'll start with the future of immigration in arizona because i -- and how the obama administration plays into this because this is an administration that has deported hundreds of thousands of immigrants just this year alone. >> well they have and we're grateful for what they have done. the bottom line is our borders still are not secure and arizona is the recipient of all the damage that they create coming through our state and staying in our state and then feeding out into the whole country. unfortunately, for us, and i explain that in my book, because i don't think our story really has been told. the book kind of comes forward and gives the inside truth and the inside picture, it is a truth telling book, the picture of what is taking place in arizona. >> talk about not only what is happening on the arizona border but an under reported story that

we lament around this table, a good bit, about the drug wars that are going on just over the border in mexico. how bad is it along the arizona/new mexico/california/texas borders? >> it is absolutely horrible, like a war zone south of the border. and the state right below arizona, state of sonora, it's, you know, the gun fights, drug cartels are in charge. you get along the texas border they're shooting and murdering people on a regular basis and the bottom line is it's spilling over. >> more dangerous than say iraq or afghanistan as far as more killings go we have correspondents coming and telling us that. why isn't there the focus on that drug war with the rest of america? >> well, that is my question. i think 70% of america agrees with us, with the people in arizona, and those that live in texas and california.

you screw up our borders because that spillover comes over into arizona. actually let me tell you, joe. they secured the borders pretty tight in texas and california. arizona is not secure. >> why is that? we are the funnel way. for whatever the reason. we don't know. that is why we keep requesting and asking because we are the recipient of crime on a consistent basis with the cartels, with the drug smuggling, the human smuggling, the drop houses, the prostitution, the extortion, and it's absolutely costing the citizens of arizona about $1.6 billion a year out of an $8 billion budget to fight that and that is not our job. it's the federal government's job and you know that. >> so talk about the critics that have suggested that what arizona has done, which is what alabama has also done, as well, passing laws that are supposed to crack down on illegal

immigrants, what do you say to your critics that say that you're promoting racial profiling, unfairly targeting hispanics? >> well, that's really, really unfair. senate bill 1070 of course is a piece of legislation that totally mirrors the federal law and because of that we had to be absolutely sure that the senate bill 1070 would work, it would be constitutional, and that it would not infringe upon anybody's civil rights. that's what we have done. that's what we're waiting to hear from the supreme court on. i think we will win. >> michael steele? >> governor, good to see you again. >> hi, michael. >> hope you're doing well. >> thank you. >> i have to admit i really admire your resolve as an executive in dealing with this issue particularly where the federal government has fallen down on its responsibilities but i would also suggest there has been some political damage done more broadly speaking to the gop. the tone, the rhetoric of the debate has moved away from some of the core centrals that you advocated in terms of border

security, and the like. how does the gop now in your estimation reconcile itself with the community of voters that is only going to grow both in terms of its number and certainly in its influence over the next four or five years as we look at the political process involved. we can't afford to have hispanics align themselves with one party in this nation knowing that a lot of the values and interests that we have are common. how do we reconcile this given the heat of this debate so far? >> michael, i tried to explain that in my book. the bottom line is that certainly people of arizona, myself included, we are not raci racist. we are not bigoted but we know that, quote, the liberal media generally wants to shove that race card out there. they want to throw it around very, very loosely, to shut down the debate. we have a severe problem. i believe that 70% of people in america, they understand that and they agree with us in arizona. every poll will tell you. they agree with what we're

doing. >> i was going to ask, you use 70% of americans. i remember when arizona first passed this legislation and you signed it there were those charges from the national media that arizona's legislature and you were profiling that you were racist and then a number of polls came out that showed the majority of americans actually supported what you were doing. i would suggest if there are any polls taken on alabama law they would find the same thing. people can curse the american people but what poll, you keep talking about 70%. what poll are you alluding to when you say that? >> you know, i can't think of it off hand right now but i know there have been several different polls and they always come in consistently at 70%. >> right. >> across the nation. >> right. >> absolutely. >> so, mark, this is a tough issue for republicans as michael steele just said. it's fascinating. the majority of americans want the federal government to crack down on illegal immigration.

yet republicans get branded as anti-hispanic and it does impact a lot of republican candidates with this extraordinarily powerful, growing segment of voters. >> i think the rhetoric in the presidential debates now is such that it could cost republicans the presidency. just because it is not inclusive enough. you can be tough on illegal immigration and in the next breath talk about being an inclusive party. mitt romney started to do that at the end of the last debate. chairman steele is right that the party has to be able to do both things at once. >> put that aside. i think it's an issue. the numbers are somewhere between depending on which estimates 12 million to 20 million people in this country who may be here illegally. there have been a number of policy proposals to try to address that, one ranging from let's use the term amnesty to figuring out a way to get them all out. >> electric fence. >> i served in congress for ten years and grap ld with this and i come from tennessee where we face the challenge as well. not in the manner that you do. but what is the answer to those here living, whose kids are

living and performing and functioning and paying taxes? how do we deal with that populace? i think most americans, 70% agree with the border issue. >> who are doing a lot of our work by the way. >> what happens? i was with a dear friend the other day at breakfast andrew tisch who said if we asked every immigrant not to go to work new york would come to a halt. how do you dweel theal with tha unite lags? i'm not trying to put you on the spot. >> you're not. i understand you what are saying. america is a nation of laws. we live by the rule of law. we have laws that are supposed to be enforced. we have thousands of people coming across our border illegally. so, we know that we have families that are already here in the united states. but we have got to get our border secured then we can deal with the other issues. one at a time. >> border first. >> absolutely.

>> i support that. >> by the way, i think an overwhelming majority of americans support that. let's say, and i've got to say i find it ironic that a former arizona governor has run an agency that is supposed to secure the borders at a time when arizona seems to be on the front lines time and time again. let's say the federal government does what is required to secure the borders. do you see a path way to citizenship for the millions of illegal immigrants that have been working in america for several years? are the basis -- our bed rock of the economy is not only the southwest but now in georgia and new york, should there be a pathway to citizenship for hard working, law abiding illegal immigrants? >> inc. the bottom line is once we get our border secured then that goes on the table and then we find that solution as to what americans want to take place. >> right. >> up until that point in time

the whole issue is getting our border secured. >> you don't even talk about that. >> no. >> she says it's an open -- >> it's an open question. >> you said that before. >> are you surprised that, you know, the thing is the reason i said it is because there is such hypocrisy. >> right. >> on this issue. there is such hypocrisy about people that oppose a tough crackdown on illegal immigration. turning a blind eye to porous borders which have become a safety issue. this is not about being anti-hispanic. this is a safety issue right now for people who live in california, arizona, new mexico, texas. they're on the front lines of a war. >> and the bottom line is that we are a nation of laws. we believe in the rule of the law. and we keep having all of the corruption that keeps falling over, falling over, and then it gets mixed up, the whole issue

gets mixed up that we are doing something different. senate bill 1070 and you will read about that in my book, it just mirrors federal law. all we were trying to do is help the federal government do the job which they seem to have refused to want to do. >> and they have. let me ask before you leave. were you surprised by the flack rick perry has taken for his positions on education for illegal immigrants? >> i think this issue is so huge and so large across the country that any time you open your mouth about illegal immigration it's going to light a fire and we're all going to be held accountable because the people understand that we have open borders and they're not going to tolerate it. it has absolutely nothing to do with racism and people throw that card out there. they shut down the debate. we're not going to shut up. we'll keep up our fight. >> i think because of what you just said we should have more in depth conversations about it so it doesn't light a fire every time so we can actually explore it. the book, very interesting.

scorpions for breakfast. i still want to ask you about the liberal media. >> i was going to say mika. she has special interests, liberal media, cynical politicos. >> i saw her looking at me. >> thank you. nice to have you. >> say hi to matt for us. >> i will. running for election again. >> he is. >> for congress yes. >> a true believer. still ahead tom brokaw joins the table. keep it right here on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] want to achieve more with your money? pnc virtual wallet gathers your spending and saving in one place. credit and debit purchases, checks, bills, and other financial information. it lets you see the details as well as the big financial picture. so you can do more with your money.

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♪ if you want it here it is come and get it ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe" 38 past the hour. a live look at the white house. some potential good news out of afghanistan where nato officials say the afghan army and police are ontrack to handle security there when u.s. troops withdraw in 2014. although army desertion is still a problem at a rate of 2% it is hoped that better pay, two more years of training, and improved equipment will allow afghan forces to sustain themselves. the u.s. official quoted in "usa today" says afghanistan will need at least $4 billion a year to maintain its forces leading up to the u.s. withdrawal.

that official called it, quote, a good investment considering it costs about a million dollars a year for one u.s. soldier to live and fight in afghanistan. more "morning joe" in a moment. we'll be right back with tom brokaw. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 42 past the hour. joining us now tom brokaw. he's out now with a new book "time of our lives, a conversation about america, who we are, where we've been, and where we need to go now to recapture the american dream." some of really the key questions of the time we live in. >> the question i keep getting asked by people as i go across

the country which is i think essential to the american dream is my children have better lives than i've had. we ought not tong think of this just in economic terms about piling up more cars and houses and things but it is a quality question we ought to be addressing. what kind of society are we building for them? what kind of education will they have? what kind of opportunities in the job market? so i try to get at that by addressing each of those issues and i use my own personal experience, my family experience given where i came from and then i have an extended family now because i have sons-in-law in oklahoma, new york, grandchildren, and it prompted me to ask these questions. most people say to me, what has happened to this country? it is not an easy question to answer. my line to them is you have to reenlist as a citizen. this is a time to get back into the arena. they can't just be casual

bystanders. these are critical issues we're playing in a much different global economy and political culture than ever before so it is time to step up. >> tom, we grew up -- i grew up -- your children who are around the same age as me -- we grew up and our first memories politically were vietnam, watergate. the iranian hostage crisis. real ugliness. i always talk about on this show how my middle school teachers talked about the end of the america that they knew and we heard the same thing in the late '70s. the decline of america. but there seems to be something different that is striking at the heart of americans now as they come up to you and they ask you, what's happened to us? what's the difference? >> well, i think there are a couple significant differences. first of all the political culture has never been more polarized than now. all those events you talked about at the end of the day the political parties were still talking to each other. key leaders in congress and other members of the political culture would find a way to have

a dialogue about what was going on. we have very little of that anymore and that's driven in part by the blogosphere and the amount of money spent on both end of the political spectrum saying you can't begin to meet them in the middle. there is something else going on, though, joe, which we've not paid enough attention to. during all those events that you describe we didn't have china closing in on us. we didn't have brazil, russia, and india emerging as great global economies. japan used to be our worry. >> right. >> china blew by japan last year and it's just on a track to blow by us economically at some point. so that is the difference. we tend in this country to constantly look back and not enough forward. you know, we're, i suppose, the best -- we're riding on our credits at this point. you know, the 20th century, the american century. guess what? we're in a new century. we have to redefine who we are and how we fit into this new

century. it's all possible but is going to be hard work. >> the data shows that the answer to that question that you raise in the book about whether our children or grandchildren will have better lives than we do is no. and there is no fast, quick fix for this country which is something i think we're weaning ourselves off of. we don't understand that this can't happen now. having said that i'm going to read from your book. what you say about american exceptionalism. you say there is a good deal of debate these days about american exceptionalism, about who believes in it and who may have doubts. i have no doubts but i also believe that the unique character of america is very much like my definition of patriotism. love your country but always believe it can be improved. so the question is in this book, is there a prescription? how do people tap back into connecting with this country and being part of making it better? >> in my generation we are the beneficiaries of the greatest generation as i describe it, the people who save the world during

world war ii, survive the depression, then gave us the lives we have today. how are we measured a hundred years from now? i ask that question. and my generation for example there can be a lot more school tutoring, getting much more involved in education in america. i give several examples there of public/private partnerships in education going on now. having conversations with your children and your grandchildren about real values. we lost our way on housing in this country. too many people were trying to buy houses that couldn't afford them. houses got too large and they were spending most of their day on a treadmill just trying to keep up with all of that. that too is part of the american dream for about 20 million americans right now it's part of the american nightmare because their homes are worth less than their mortgages at this point. so we need to re-evaluate what is required in our lives so we have a sense of satisfaction. what really counts? one friend of mine has reduced it to this. he said you should get up in the morning and ask what do i need

not just what do i want? >> i love it. >> incredible levels of cynicism about government. you touched on it a little bit. for an entire generation that came up, a government that didn't see 9/11 coming, a government that got us into a war in iraq a lot of people think we shouldn't have been in. a government that stood by katrina and watched our own citizens stand on the roof and couldn't give them help. a government that didn't see the 2008 financial crash coming. how do we restore faith in government, a congress that in the most recent poll had a 9% approval rating? how important do you think it is that we get faith back in government? how do we do it? >> again, it really requires the citizenry from the ground up to get involved in reclaiming their government. i've used this almost everywhere i go as an example. however you feel about the tea party, they got angry. then they got organized. then they got to washington. and they stayed disciplined. and they were having an effect out of proportion to their numbers frankly in the republican debate but that is a

demonstration of organization and power. and the other thing is i think both parties have to look at the enormous impact of big money on politics. k street and the lobbyists and they're in there all day every day. the most recent example is they were trying to cut back on agricultural subsidies for example which is something that really does need to be examined in this country but at the same time some of the leading voices are coming in through the back door and finding new ways to reinstate subsidies under a new name. we need to think about all that. i think if there is a long-term trend by the way, it will be that we'll have more public/private partnerships, what mitch daniels is doing in indiana with toll roads, with some in iowa they've got a private company coming in to manage water districts much more efficiently. even turning out profits for them. you're seeing that in some of the schools. it's a tricky piece but we've got as i said the other day a political culture that is analog

and we're living in a digital world and we need to change all of that. >> you when i graduated from school in canada, 50% of the top quartile of the classes of canadian universities wanted to move to the united states. >> right. >> everybody wanted to come here. and one of the reasons is this is a country that still recognizes talent, rewards talent, celebrates talent. there's more upward mobility in this society, by far, than anybody else. strangely enough now, what has gone wrong is the way the political leadership is perceived as not leading the country, as not making the country available to that kind of talent. and i don't know how you get -- as you say, given the role of money, given the way that congressional districts are drawn, how you change that politics. that's going to be such a huge challenge. >> it is, mort, and it's hard, there's no question about that. but to use a very dramatic example, in 1939, we were the 16th military power in the world, and hitler was already on

the march in europe. and when the time came for us to get involved in the war in 1941, we made a huge turn and people got it. so, if we're in a crisis in the 21st century and facing the objective realities of this global competition, that means that leaders have to emerge from the ground up, not just from washington. i cite a couple of people in the book that i thought were great voices at one time in my life. john gardner, who formed common cause, for example, was a wise voice author. served in republican and democratic administrations. giamatti at yale used to give these wonderful speeches to classes about what to expect in life, and he would say to them, do not become hostage to other people's orthodoxy. and if you're wondering what's new, you're new. you're the one who's going to invent the future, to the classes that were graduating. i think we need to gin up that dialogue in this country. i hear it when i go out across main street america, you know, from bankers and car dealers and construction workers, from department store clerks. they're talking about it among

themselves, but they don't think that they've got a voice beyond that. >> tom, michael steele has a question from washington. >> yeah, just real quick, tom. everything you're saying is so critical to where we go next, and i think the central point, i just want you to comment on it, is our government is a reflection of us. so, a lot of what we're seeing is reflecting back how we are as a people right now, our detachment, if you will, from the process. and i think the tea party and the wall street protests are re-engagement by the american people and sort of reconnecting in that sense. what do you think there? >> well, there is something called elect usa, which is an online effort that is now being financed in washington about getting more people involved and maybe even having an online convention next year in which they can find a candidate. i'm not sure that it's going to be successful because you do need larger-than-life figures who are running as well. but two of the examples that i use in the book, by the way,

michael, have a dramatic impact in this country. candace's daughter was killed by a drunk driver, so she started madd, mothers against drunk driving. she changed the face of the country when dealing with alcohol. we have changed laws now, an acute awareness of that. one woman did that because of her daughter. >> our country is safer. >> nancy and komen race for the cure, the cancer program. you see nfl players wearing pink chinstraps and the brooklyn bridge lit up with pink lights. and she did this with a shoebox full of names and started out to try to raise the consciousness about breast cancer, and we can find a cure here. so, that's how it's always begun in this country. that's the rich tradition of who we are. the founding fathers took on the british crown by getting together and saying we have an objective here. and we fought a great war in this country in the 19th century. two parties had completely different ideas about what

america should be. one prevailed and at a terrible cost, but they made the fight. we've gotten, i dare say, i think that we've gotten a little soft and used to things. my one other final point is that the other day -- and i've been talking about this probably more than they like -- the aarp is out with an ad in which a guy says, who am i? i represent the aarp. there are 50 million of us. don't cut our benefits. we vote. wouldn't it have been nice if the aarp had said, we're the aarp, we're the beneficiaries of the entitlement programs and a lot of us need everything that we can get, but there are others who have more resources. we'd like to be involved in the debate as we go forward about how medicare and social security is reformed. we have some ideas for that and we invite people to join us in that effort, rather than say i've got my piece and don't you dare touch it. >> interesting. you can read an excerpt of tom's book, "the time of our lives" on our blog, mojoe.msnbc.com.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, mark halperin and harold ford jr. >> how did herman cain do yesterday? >> well, i guess it depends on who you ask. if you ask herman cain, he is a target, but there is a little bit of an evolution in his description of the story. >> in his description. >> yeah. >> the thing is, mark halperin, we really don't know what

happened. only a small number of people know what happened back at the national restaurant association, but we certainly know what he did yesterday, and it was one inconsistency after another. mike huckabee thinks -- i thought this was fascinating -- he thinks this is another republican campaign that has set this rumor in motion, and that sounds about right, but sometimes campaigns will do that to each other to see how somebody responds. herman cain's team and herman cain not the model of consistency yesterday. >> he wasn't. i think to sort of go inside the political media establishment, i think a lot of people in the media are skeptical about his story, whether he's telling the truth, and that will propel this forward up to a point. these are cases, apparently, that are under nondisclosure agreements. >> yeah, i mean, how far can they go? >> it's not clear. if there are never faces to the accounts of the women, and if there's no more facts that come out, i think his poll numbers

may go up. >> what responsibility does "politico" have to say what happened? because there are a few sketchy lines in there where one woman was uncomfortable with a gesture he made that was nonsexual, but it was a bizarre description of an action of herman cain's a decade ago that "politico" described as nonsexual. >> they know more than they're saying and they're bound by the relationship with their sources. you have to trust them as a news organization. they took their time on this. they did not rush this into print, and they have the credibility to put this forward the way they did. they're taking some hits from the right, but the story has not been challenged on its facts in any way. >> let's go through the herman cain story. he is now responding to the "politico" report, a lot, by the way, that alleges at least two female employees complained of inappropriate behavior by cain while he was head of the national restaurant association back in the 1990s.

but as cain and his campaign try to clear his name, damage control has been a bit inconsistent. first, this is what cain said when he was confronted about the story by politico's jonathan martin on sunday. >> i'm not going to comment about two people that you won't tell me who they are, okay? that's like negotiating. i'm not going to comment on that because, you know, i think that that is one of those kinds of things that until -- >> that was the last question, thanks. >> yes or no? >> last question. >> have you ever been accused of sexual harassment? >> then yesterday on msnbc -- >> so, there he says two women who you won't tell me who they are. >> yeah. >> so, obviously faining ignorance of the entire situation. >> i have to -- okay. then yesterday on msnbc's "the daily rundown," cain's chief of staff, mark block, dismissed the claims altogether. >> herman cain has never sexually harassed anybody,

period, end of story. every negative word and accusation in the article is sourced to a series of unnamed or anonymous sources, and this is questionable at best. >> also yesterday, cain himself spoke at the national press club, dismissing the allegations as completely false. >> i would be delighted to clear the air. in all of my over 40 years of business experience, running businesses and corporations, i have never sexually harassed anyone. as far as a settlement, i am unaware of any sort of settlement. i hope it wasn't for much, because i didn't do anything. but the fact of the matter is, i'm not aware of a settlement that came out of that accusation. i told you this bull's eye on my back has gotten bigger. we have no idea the source of this witch hunt, which is really what it is. we have no idea. we've been busy trying to get my

message out. >> so, so there he said he's unaware of any settlements. >> yeah, and just hours later, cain taped an interview with fox news and then he changed course completely, admitting that he was aware of a settlement with an accuser. >> the general counsel comes in and says it's settled? >> yes. >> okay, and did you ask, like, what did you do? >> i did. >> and what were you told? >> he said this started out where she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement -- >> how much? >> i don't remember the number. >> thousands or hundreds of -- >> thousands, but i don't remember a number. but then he said the good news is, because there was no basis for this, we ended ups settling for what would have been a termination settlement -- >> what would that be about? >> maybe three months' salary,

something like that? >> we'll keep going, but -- >> there's more. >> i know, and we'll keep going, but just the juxtaposition of those two clips, and i'm sorry for -- i'm going to be just really blunt about it -- showed that he was clearly lying, and there is no nice word for it, clearly lying in front of the national press club hours before when he said "i'm unaware of any settlement." again, we don't know what happened behind closed doors, we don't know whether this story is thinly sourced. we do know that he was caught lying on a scandal, alleged scandal, that was ten days in the making. >> right. >> it's not like he was surprised in a deposition about information. >> right. >> about somebody. he had ten days to prepare a response for this and he lied on national tv in front of the national press corps. let's keep going. >> he thought it would go away. >> what happened next? >> well there was an interview. he had his media appearance at fox, and cain outside was confronted by reporters and

asked about the discrepancies in his story. >> can you remember everything about an incident from 12 years ago? and the other thing is, politico said there was a settlement. i know that there was an agreement. whether it was a settlement, agreement or whether it was termination paper -- i don't remember what it was called. so, that choice of words, i'm not going to say that it's changing my tune. they used the word settlement. i know that the restaurant association had an agreement with this lady. >> then he went on pbs and remembered part of an incident. take a listen. >> one incident with the one who made the formal charge, the only one that i could recall after a day of trying to remember specifics was once i referenced this lady's height, and i was standing near her and i did this saying you're the same height as my wife, because my wife is 5

feet tall and she comes up to my chin. this lady's 5 feet tall and she came up to my chin. so obviously, she thought that that was too close for comfort. >> you know -- >> all right. >> willie, we had said -- i don't know. we had said a couple days ago when it came to domestic policy, his tax plan, foreign policy, his tax plan that herman cain was making that up as we went along. yesterday was a perfect example. there is nothing but chaos here. i don't know how any conservative, forget his ideology, whatever that is, because he's making that up, too -- one day he's pro-choice, the next he's pro-life, one day he wants to release prisoners at gitmo, the next he doesn't. i've got to say, despite all these facts, publications like "the national review" line up in defense of herman cain, as if it's defending conservatism, which i would suggest after yesterday's circus act by

everybody involved in this, that it really typifies what's been wrong with the conservative movement over the past several years. but all that being said, herman cain made a fool of himself yesterday, made it up as he went along, and i guess one, two, three, four -- contradicted himself about five times. >> you don't want to show your work, so to speak, on the presidential campaign. give us the clean, final answer. he said at the end of the day, he said i don't recall signing a settlement agreement. that doesn't mean i didn't sign a settlement agreement. i just don't recall it. if you get an e-mail on october 20th, your campaign does, from jonathan martin or somebody at politico, you have now ten days to figure out what exactly happened. go back and talk to the national restaurant association, figure out, get the information from them. but we heard over the course of, what, 12 hours last night, four or five different versions of the story they should have had nailed ten days ago. >> and by the way, you can nail this one in two sentences --

baseless claims were brought against me ten years ago. they're categorically untrue and i refuse to, whatever, respond to any other accusations, something like that. >> we're talking about the way he handled the story. we still need to figure out what allegedly took place, and that's going to require some help from the national restaurant association. they have a report on file somewhere and they're going to need to help herman cain and bring that out, if his version of the story is, in fact, true. he needs them to help him put that out into the public. >> well, i think only herman cain can do that because it's a nondisclosure -- >> right. >> can i chart the other side of this? >> yeah. >> there was one and there might be -- always is -- >> let's try to defend herman cain. >> so, these two women, have either of them come out and spoken publicly? >> no, they can't. >> right, they can't. oh, why? >> because there's a nondisclosure agreement. they were paid certain amounts of money -- >> they were paid, okay. >> and in return -- >> that's something to keep in mind. >> in return, they promised not

to say anything. >> right. so, these two women with alleged stories took money for their silence and we'll never hear from them. are there any other women coming out when they hear about this stepping forward because they want to show a pattern? >> i don't understand your point. >> no. i'm just saying that we don't really know what happened at all. we have to be really careful -- >> no, we don't. >> and it's probably planted by another campaign. this is what campaigns do, and it's completely side-tracking. >> i think mike huckabee is right, i think another republican campaign planted this story. but at the same time, this speaks to herman cain's fitness as a presidential candidate. >> totally. >> not the underlayi lyingatory itself. >> the way he handled it. >> i'm not denying that. >> but harold ford, the embarrassing way he handled the story. again, being caught in a lie and then trying to explain his way out of a lie like a sixth grader. it's embarrassing. >> if you, as he has stated -- i heard him say repeatedly yesterday, he has never sexually

harassed anyone. it would appear to me that what willie said, ten days of trying to answer this, give the answer and move on. but he changed the answer, and in politics and public life, in the public space when you do that, you invite more and more questions, more and more skepticism and probably creates more and more problems for his campaign. >> you'd have trouble getting away with this if you were running for congress. >> you'd have trouble getting away with this in your home, let alone running for -- >> that's a good way to put it! but he's running for president -- [ everyone talking at once ] if he's running for president of the united states and he goes in front of the national press corps in the morning saying categorically that he is "a unaware" of any settlements and six hours later, he describes his discussion with the general counsel and the settlements, claiming in the morning that he had never talked to hr or general counsel. it's -- >> if he had just answered it fully from the outset, he probably wouldn't be facing the discussion --

>> mark, what's the impact on the race, anything? >> i think if the status quo, if there are no additional facts and there is anything that diversity the story line away from this, i think his numbers will go slightly up, but there's still going to be more facts. >> and why will the numbers go slightly up? >> because what's fueling herman cain, what has fueled his rise is an anti-washington, antiliberal establishment rallying around someone who has the right profile for that sentiment in the party, and there's a lot of conservative voices, rush limbaugh and others out there saying -- >> laura ingraham. >> -- this is an attack on our guy because he's rising so much. >> do you think other republicans are doing this? are your sources or people in the media believing this is something, as joe said earlier, may be fueled by some in the republican camp? >> it is, but i don't think it matters. what matters is the underlying facts and how he handles it. i don't think the source of it really matters. >> there is in conservative quarters such a desperate cry that anybody but mitt romney -- >> right. >> you see people like rush

limbaugh and laura ingraham and "the national review" desperately searching for an alternative. >> he's a flawed guy, but he's our guy. >> and right now, herman cain is the only viable alternative. you know, rush, like rick perry a couple months ago, and maybe he still likes him, i don't know. but it just shows, there is no strong conservative. i guarantee you if jeb bush or paul ryan or chris christie were in this race -- maybe not chris christie, because -- >> mike pence. >> mike pence. if mike pence were in this, rush limbaugh would be making fun of herman cain today, but there is no conservative stalwart to go to and mitt romney, as he proved last week, is simply not a conservative. he doesn't believe -- he may speak, he may say the right words 95% of the time now, but you do not go to john kasich's home state in ohio and waffle like that on an issue that has defined the conservative cause

over the past six months and waffled the way he did and walk away with that with anybody believing that in your gut you are a true bedrock conservative. he's not. after the break, we're going to bring in nbc news political director chuck todd. also this hour, it's being called the publication that changed history. we're going to look back 40 years to the making of "ms. magazine" when a group of prominent feminists launched the very first magazine by women for women. we'll bring in one of the founding editors. but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? good morning, mika. about a million people still without power, most of those located in connecticut. it appears they were the hardest hit area, along with our friends in northern jersey and southern new york. temperatures have been very cold, especially at night. it's really icing up all that snow and making things a little more difficult for power crews. connecticut just put out a press release saying they expect some people at least a week. they have 776 crews out there working as hard as they can, they say. forecast for today in connecticut, 50 degrees, a

little bit of snow melting, but not a lot. remember, we don't have a lot of sunlight these days. days are getting short. 57 in philadelphia. in connecticut, it will warm up, though. we'll see nice weather towards the middle and end of the week and no more storms coming. hopefully, power will be on by next weekend. the next storm is hitting areas in the pacific northwest, now sliding into wyoming and also colorado. expecting snow tonight in denver and a snowy, cold day tomorrow. enjoy beautiful weather in the middle of the country, everyone. 75 at kansas city. i wish i was there. you're watching "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. the employee of the month isss... the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles

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since it's an opportunity for me to share a little bit of my faith, i will. ♪ amazing grace will always be my song of praise ♪ ♪ for it was grace that brought me liberty ♪ ♪ i'll never know why jesus came to love me so ♪ >> um -- >> that's beautiful. i love that. >> so, this is at the end of his national press club. he just broke into song. >> it was requested. >> it was requested? all right, so he took requests.

>> dennis kucinich would do the same thing, and has. >> he has. >> okay. so, joining us now from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. >> hey, chuck, can you break into a couple of verses of "holy, holy, holy"? >> i thought we could do some -- >> can i just say, you've got to give him credit that he went sort of -- >> what are you talking about? >> the fact that he went to a verse that most people don't know, you know? i mean, we all know the first part. he went to another part of "amazing grace." i've got to give him credit. he obviously knows every verse of the song. >> i loved it. i was absolutely moved by it. that was great. >> that just -- >> no, i was moved by that. chuck todd, tell me, so, what's happening in the republican side here? this is one crazy race. >> it is, and it's -- you know, watching -- we all knew herman cain was going to not survive, i guess. i mean, the prediction has been sort of the most accurate piece

of conventional wisdom we've seen in a long time. the question was how was this fall going to happen? look, i'm not 100% convinced that this thing is going to be the death now for him. i think as long as the current set of facts and the current explanation isn't apt to change, although i'm skeptical that that will hold up, but we'll see -- if it does, he can quote/unquote survive this, but is this really going to be the guy that challenges romney? >> no. >> right. >> chuck, let me ask you quickly here, i'm just curious, can you think of a president in recent, modern american political history where a candidate has contradicted himself as many times as herman cain did yesterd yesterday? in the morning, actually lying to the press club, saying he had no information on any settlements, and a few hours later going on greta describing in detail the settlement?

>> i feel like every sex scandal that we've seen with a politician actually evolves. i think that all happened -- >> over 36 hours? >> although that happened over a smaller period of time. i'm just saying it does seem as if -- have we had a sex scandal yet where you get all the facts up front from the candidate? you never do. it evolves. >> but bill clinton at least took nine months. this took nine hours. >> but is that a good thing or a bad thing knmaybe if he evolved over a six-hour period, there wouldn't have been an impeachment. >> i wonder who's advising him to change his story every hour -- >> wait, wait, wait, did you say advising him? >> well, just stop it. >> i don't think it's happening. so, we brought up last hour that all of the challenges mitt romney has had from the right over the past four years. i just, i know we're focused on herman cain now like we were focused on rick perry before, like we were focused on michele

bachmann before, like we were focused on sarah palin before. as harold brought up, like we were focused on fred thompson four years ago, like we were focused on rudy giuliani. it just seems in the republican party a majority of primary voters are looking for anybody but mitt romney to lead this charge against barack obama. >> but the difference between the field four years ago and the field now is in the field four years ago, you felt like you had plausible plan bs, that there were multiple potential anti-mccains that you could visualize as leading the republican party, going to st. paul, taking that nomination and being a plausible republican nominee and having the opportunity to make sure the party didn't get shellacked down the ballot, that it would run a competitive race. the problem right now for this anti mitt romney movement is, organizationally and infrastructurewise, i can make a case that rick perry could be a plausible leader of the

republican party if he had to be and that infrastructurewise, they would run a credible campaign, but is he a good enough candidate yet? the answer is no. there's no -- there isn't -- and that's really about it, right? there isn't four or five guys. huntsman's just not conservative enough. there's just not four or five guys waiting in the wings. there's not even two or three. it's a really -- it's -- what's the party going to do? are they going to suck it up and just go with romney? i guess they will, but if you look at the numbers, it's not there. he should not be the nominee for this republican party at this moment in history, but he may end up it. >> chuck, you mentioned rick perry. you said he hasn't gotten there yet, implying that he still could. his poll numbers are terrible. we had one out yesterday that, in fact, in the state of texas now he's tied among republican voters with herman cain. what changes that? we hear a lot about money. he's still got money to spend, going to go up with some ads. what pushes him from where we're seeing him now? that's the texas poll there. nationally, he's polling down in single digits. what changes the game for him,

if anything? >> retail politicking. that's been his strength. and so, if he can plant himself in iowa and win iowa and win it on the face, and then the story line is, well, this is a guy that when he gets to know voters personally, they get to know him, they like him. he may not make the best impression on television, he's not the best debater, but one on one, he seems to be grounded. you know, if that's what he does, right, and that's what comes out of iowa, then it's a new story, it's a new ball game. but you know, this first impression he made, it's amazing to me how much it's lingered with voters in just the conversations you have with focus groups and stuff. >> mark -- >> hey, chuck, the president's had local reporters to the white house for years and years, but the president and the white house are bringing in a big group today, giving them a big day. what's that about? >> it's fascinating. it's basically taking -- remember the old radio row that white houses used to do, and they'd bring them in and have, you know, 10, 12 radio, talk

radio hosts. well, this is nine tv, local tv reporters. they're letting them set up on the south lawn. the president's giving all of them interviews. then they're also providing cabinet secretaries for mini exclusives for these different markets. and the markets are mostly swing state markets. there's a few nonswing state markets in there, i think a texas market and things like that. but trust me, there's colorado, there is hampton roads, virginia, there's plenty of obvious swing states. this is one of those events, you're like, where was this a year ago? where was this two years ago? it's a pretty smart event, i think, if you look at it just simply moving your message, because it's a total get out of the national media play. >> yeah. bob woodward was on television this past weekend. he said he had seen the political plan for the obama administration. they're going to devote the entire 12 months, next 12 months, exclusively to politics. i mean, they've given up basically on substance. i don't know how well that's going to work in this country

given what i think we're looking at in terms of the major economic problem that is facing everybody, but that's their plan. they have no other real substantive issues that they're going to try and promote other than political, and i don't know if that works, but i'm skeptical of that. >> chuck, what do you think? >> well, i think the white house will argue that the republicans started campaigning six months before that and they got -- i'm just telling you what their counter argument would be. i agree, we are stuck -- there is nothing that's going to happen. my fear is that will somebody write me a plausible ending to this that says there will be real governing in 2013? i have no optimism that there's going to be real governing in 2013, no matter who's elected. >> chuck todd, thank you. we'll see you on "the daily rundown" coming up after "morning joe." coming up next, we'll talk to the editors of "ms." magazine about changing the publishing industry 40 years ago.

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♪ 35 past. in december of 1971, a group of prominent feminists launched "ms." magazine, the very first magazine for women published by women. now, the new issue of "new york" magazine celebrates the 40th

anniversary of "ms." magazine with an oral history of what they call a publication that changed history. the piece is written by abigail pogrebin and abigail joins us now along with her mother, letty cottin pogrebin, one of "ms." magazine's founding editors. thank you both for being with us. what a milestone. >> thank you. >> a family affair here? >> exactly, exactly. it's very exciting. i want to start with how the title was chosen, because i think that launches us into the concept of the conversation. letty, what was the -- >> we agonized over the title because it was 1971, actually, when we had our preliminary meetings, and we thought of "sister," but then we thought that might sound like a nun's publication. [ laughter ] >> true, yeah. that's true. >> and that it was not. >> cross that one off. >> and that it was not. >> no. and "sisterhood" was already like, is it your synagogue women's group or is it a little too radical? >> right. >> we settled on "ms." because

"ms." already was in the secretarial handbooks. it was the designation for somebody who you didn't know was married or not married. and therefore, it sort of took the marital quotient out of it then to be the way it is with men. you say mister, you don't know if a man is married or not. now you say ms., you sdpoexz if a woman is married or not, and we thought marriage should be irrelevant in a woman's identity and that was it. >> can you believe how far we have come -- we still have a long way to go -- but over the past 40 years? that was considered radical. now there are 21, 22-year-old young women just getting into the workforce and we go, women's magazine, big deal. >> right. >> now a lot has changed. >> i think a lot of reporting the story, i told mom this, is i didn't know how bad it was until i started doing the research and talked to everybody and looked back at the clips and what was said with impunity in public about women even attempting to be in positions of power or writing pieces for magazines

that they actually wanted to write instead of makeup and hair and how to keep a man, get a good man and keep him. and that was pretty much all of the women's magazine content at that time. >> so, bring us back to the first issue, the second issue, the third. what was the reaction? was it all positive? >> well, we thought we had to get everything into one issue because we were putting out a preview issue that we thought might actually be our last, first and last, that we would be laughed off into the stands, that we would be destroyed by the media. >> wow. >> that we couldn't be sure we'd have distribution and how would they put us in the south and all of that. and actually, our preview issue was intended to be on sale for eight weeks and it was sold out in eight days. >> oh, my gosh. >> 300,000 copies. >> yeah, right. >> amazing. >> there was a great hunger for this message of affirmation, this reflection of reality. >> so, how interesting, because obviously, money talks.

so, the reaction might have been to the actual content of the magazine different to the reaction to the numbers that were sold. did you start really seeing your place on the map when you realized that you were making money? >> we suddenly realized that, you know, we had packed in every possible subject matter. we had, you know, marriage contracts and how to raise children and how to demand your rights at work and lesbian rights and the homemaker, and we had to stuff everything in. and people told abigail, they're never going to last, there's nothing left to say, but -- >> 40 years later. >> 40 -- >> still talking. >> and also, with 300, we were able to sell advertising, not easily, because you know, people had to be content to put their ad next to a picture of a real birth. >> right. >> that's not the way johnson & johnson imagines it, a real birth through the women's legs angle. they're imagining a little -- >> a kodak. >> kodak, right.

>> that's how it happened with my own. >> not exactly the gerber baby. abigail, what is the state right now of women's magazines? i mean, for every great magazine like yours, there are plenty. i don't have to tell you, that are about keeping your man happy and losing those five pounds to squeeze into the dress. how are women's magazines doing today? >> well, first, i just want to say i don't work for "ms." i wrote the piece about "ms." but i would say "ms." is -- the way "ms." is published today is still an anomaly. they're doing pieces that "harpers bazaar" and "vogue" are not doing. that said, one of the things "ms." did was change what other women's magazines covered. they have much more real reporting now. they're reporting women who are doing kind of medical care in rwanda and are, you know, on capitol hill. so, i think that "ms." really changed the content, correct me if i'm wrong, for other women's magazines. and now, women reporters can get as serious a story done as any man can. >> are you happy with -- do you see letty when you go to the

newsstand? >> well, you see it on the covers of traditional women's magazines. you'll see rape as a cover story. you would never see the word rape on the inside of a women's magazine back then. you never saw, you know, insurance discrimination, you never saw sexual harassment, you never saw critiques of political campaigns based on sexism. you know, why do we have to care about her legs and we don't have to care about his ridiculous nose? >> was there sexism in the 2008 campaign against hillary? >> a lot. >> amen. amen, sister. and i'm not talking about a nun. no, that was something that was really telling for all of us around this table, how everybody was focused on an african-american breaking a racial barrier, but by the end of that campaign, you look back at it and said is the greater barrier a woman? >> right. >> white or black or any race running. >> as abigail's piece shows us, because what she's done is she's

taken testimony from witnesses. she interviewed how many? >> 35. >> 35 people. not only us, the founding editors and gloria steinem at great length, but people who wrote for us, people who looked at us and were critical of us, people who wanted in and got jealous and annoyed. i mean, it's a piece with a lot of ferment and a lot of good, healthy disputation in it, and she's -- >> thank you, mom. >> she's caught their voices. no, it is interesting to read your own history through the eyes of the next generation and recognize it. >> abigail, letty, thank you very much. congratulations. 40 years. >> this had to be thrilling for you. >> it was thrilling it was complicated. i've had a lot of therapy. >> yeah, well, but seriously, it -- >> it really was eye-opening. >> if somebody could write a piece on you, it was not an easy write. in 1971 to do this it was radical. >> it's true, and it's a very different prism when you're 46 years old looking back at what

happened when you were 6. >> right. all right. >> she was in the room when we met. >> ladies, thank you. up next, a group of passengers left on the tarmac for seven hours during last weekend's snowstorm. that story is next when "morning joe" continues. when is this stud muffin of yours coming over? dad you are not meeting him looking like that! i look fine. just a little trouble with a bargain brand cooking spray. i told you to use new and improved pam so you'd come out in one piece like those muffins up there. look i gotta go. pam helps you like pull it off guaranteed.

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thanks to spark, owning my own business has never been more rewarding. [ male announcer ] introducing spark the small business credit cards from capital one. get more by choosing unlimited double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? this guy's amazing. ♪ welcome back. 45 past. federal investigators want to know what went wrong at hartford's bradly international airport during saturday's snowstorm. with the airport inundated with diverted flights, some passengers on board a handful of planes waited for hours with overflowing toilets, no food and no water. >> that's just another day at laguardia. i mean, come on. >> not at bradley international, no. >> but at laguardia, yeah -- >> after a couple episodes of "morning joe." >> nbc's tom costello has the story. >> hold on to the railing. >> reporter: this wasn't

supposed to happen again. a frustrated jetblue pilot pleading with ground crews at hartford for help on saturday night. >> is there any way you can get a tug and a tow bar out here to us and get us towed somewhere to a great or something? i don't care. take us anywhere. >> reporter: with babies crying in pitch black, he, his crew and passengers sat stranded on the tarmac for hours. no food and no water, no working toilets. >> i have a paraplegic on board that needs to come off. i have a diabetic on here that's got an issue. >> reporter: for seven hours they waited. at times, tempers flared. when police arrived, applause. >> the woman knew i was kind of losing it, having a panic attack. you know, people kind of walking up and down the aisles, very frustrated. >> reporter: in all, at least three jetblue flights diverted from new york were stranded for hours at hartford. a diverted american airlines flight from paris also sat for seven hours because there were no customs officers on duty at hartford.

it's hardly the first time. a much bigger passenger nightmare involving jetblue at jfk airport in 2007 led to the creation of a passenger bill of rights. and tarmac delay rules that went into effect 18 months ago, those rules require airlines to provide food, water and access to working toilets after a two-hour delay and allow passengers off the plane aft three hours. airlines that violate the rule face a fine of $27,500 per passenger. the government says those rules work. so, what happened on saturday? >> although the airlines appear to have made a bet with an act of god that they could get off the ground in three hours or less after they diverted, the airport was completely unresponsive until later in the day, like in the evening, 9:30 in the evening. >> reporter: but bradley airport says it accepted 23 diverted flights and "our resources were stretched to the limit." 1,500 passengers spent the night on cots in the terminal. now with winter around the corner, the faa is looking into

avoiding a repeat of this. >> what a mess that was tom costello reporting. jetblue says it's refunding the tickets for all of those involved, and the faa hasn't yet determined whether to fine the airline. >> but you know, unlike the laguardia -- >> jetblue is a good airline. >> jetblue was trying to get -- the pilot was trying to get the passengers off the plane. so, you can't blame jetblue. if paraplegics, as he was saying, and babies in the dark? >> sounds like a really bad confluence of events. >> the system was just overloaded. >> it's unbelievable. they should have pulled them back to the gate, what they were asking for. >> horrible. >> a nightmare. up next, stephen colbert goes under cover into occupy wall street. oh, dear. the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?"

and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams. i got it, i'm sorry. these people, huh? you know i've found that anger is the enemy of instruction. you don't know the egos that i have to deal with.

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i arrived at zucati park ready for a revolution. my mission, blend in, become one of them, and hopefully, earn their trust. i had to find a way into their world. just as the skies opened up, so did my window of opportunity. it was time for a call to action. end the lockout! end it! i was making connections. do you guys believe wall street planned this rain? >> what are you talking about? >> stop the rain!

stop the wall street rain. as i left the park, i had a real sense of what these young people were fighting for. okay, where's the limo? and i had found my rebels, two young idealists who could get me inside the movement. i invited these occupiers to occupy my penthouse suite overlooking zucati park. steak and eggs and bacon and some sausage. so -- oh, my god, are those good. go on. >> they have all this money and they know that people all over the world are suffering and hungry and cold. >> who's your leader? because a good cult needs one. >> we don't have one. >> so the position is open? >> there is no such position. >> let's create one. i nominate me. do i hear seconds? thank you. >> it will never get consensus. >> okay, but i heard a second.

so it's me. i'm your leader. >> he gave you fingers down. >> actually, i would block that one. >> but i point of ordered it and then i put it up for super consideration and then it passed over the stormy seas of the bloc, okay? then at the last minute, i gave it an executive run-through, like this, and then i went around, i went around your concerns like that. and so, i'm the leader now. >> i think they got a leader. >> that's the guy. he's the guy. >> uniquely qualified. >> oh, man. holy cow. >> love him. all right. >> what's next, willie? >> why would we mention it without running the sound bite, alex? yeah, will ferrell last night accepting the award that he first dropped, the mark twain prize for american humor. >> as i stare at this magnificent bust of mark twain, i'm reminded of how humbled i am to receive such an honor and how i vow to take very special care

of it. if my children try to touch it or even look at it, i will beat them. vivica -- [ laughter ] all i can say is thank you and thank god i found you. you've given us three beautiful boys and we have a wonderful life together. but i do have to say, sometimes you get a little lippy, okay? and i'll tell you one thing and one thing only, okay? tonight is my night, all right? do you hear me! i mean, tonight, if i -- after the show, if i want to go on a bender with gwen ifill, i'm gonna do it, okay? and there's nothing you can say

to stop me. i love you. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? love that guy. business travel forecast, this storm is headed off the coast, not up to new england. temperatures in the eastern seaboard, no problems, mostly 50s and 60s. there is a snowstorm heading for wyoming, and eventually, that will get to denver tonight into tomorrow. be prepared, more snow. your core competency is...competency. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm getting an upgrade.

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welcome back to the show. time to talk about what we learned today. willie? >> i learned th occupy wall street found its front man in stephen colbert. >> what a front man. mort? >> i learned