[ male announcer ] for unsurpassed fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion. could've had a v8. we asked you at the top of the show what you're doing up at this hour. john, what do you got? >> hey, willie, happy wednesday. >> don't ever say that to me again. go ahead. >> brian in south carolina writes i can't sleep because an alligator is devouring a raccoon in my backyard. you know how annoying these alligators can get. >> i do. that is a new demo. we've heard a lot of things,

john, but that is a new one. people up watching our show because they were awoken by alligators mauling raccoons. "morning joe" starts right now. ladies and gentlemen, are you excited? because now it's time for a brand new segment. this is great moments from the campaign trail. take a look. >> for those who have abandoned hope, we'll restore hope and we'll welcome them into a great national crusade to make america great again. >> let it be our cause to see that child grow up strong and secure graced by her challenges, but never struggling alone. >> where's my quarter pounder with cheese? >> all right. good morning. >> that is -- that is soaring rhetoric. i knew this guy was going to come on strong at the end. >> it's wednesday, november 9th. with us onset, we have the

director of the earth institute at columbia university, economist dr. jeffrey sachs. we also have msnbc political analyst former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> boy, mika, we have so much to talk about today. we've been talking about the elections last night. >> ohio. >> a big setback for republicans. >> absolutely. >> virginia, positive for republicans. you talk about berlusconi all the way across the seas. jeffrey sachs giving us a big thumbs up. >> wasn't it a long time ago? >> about 17 years. >> oh, come on now. >> also, the elections in -- the republicans came forward with an offer to increase taxes yesterday, increase revenue to the federal government. that is a first step. that hasn't happened in about 17 years. >> that's a new one. >> that is a new one.

and chuck schumer was on our show yesterday and said something that got them fighting on capitol hill. >> yep. >> he said this supercommittee was doomed to fail. >> i still hope it's not. can we say that? one year ahead of the 2012 presidential elections, there was another important election night on tuesday. with democrats scoring a number of victories on the state level. in ohio, voters repealed a law passed earlier this year that limits the bargaining power of more than 350,000 unionized workers. it comes after republican governor john kasik told state democrats last november to "get on the bus or we're going to run you over." but last night, he delivered a more humbled message. >> it's clear that the people have spoken. and my view is when people speak in a campaign like this and a referendum, you have to listen when you're a public servant. there isn't any question about that. i've heard their voices.

i understand their decision, and frankly i respect what people have to say in an effort like this. >> what do you think? >> well, i think we saw in wisconsin scott brown push forward, realize he may have pushed forward too aggressively. >> corrected a little. >> corrected a little bit. started talking to democrats. john kasich didn't make that correction, and the people corrected him last night. and you know, it's very interesting, jeffrey sachs, chris christie is not the most popular republican governor in the nation for nothing. he fought hard his first year, but then he figured out, hey, you know what? i've got to work with democrats. in the assembly. and so chris christie's sitting at 57%, 58%, 59%. and john kasich's in the 30s and

got dealt a serious blow. you cannot shove legislation like this down people's throats without paying the price ultimately. >> the public's moderate. >> the public is not ideological. >> the public is in the middle of these issues, and they did not want to see the unions crushed. they don't like this anti-teacher campaign, anti-teachers union campaign. they spoke very loud. i'm happy with what the governor said. he's absolutely right. he was soundly, soundly defeated last night. >> it's pretty rough. >> pretty rough for john kasich, what does it mean? >> i think everything you've said plus this helps democrats, it helps the president a bit in this state. they will obviously try to grab on to the issue and tie this issue to job creation. and it goes back to something you and i give mika a lot of credit early on in this, wisconsin debate, raising the question with scott walker, and you raise it, as well. when the unions decided to give

in and renegotiate, why would you then take the extraordinary step of now we want to end your right to bargain for and negotiate for better conditions and better pay and better benefits? >> and we did say that. everybody around the table said that. it's okay -- voters understand math. if john -- >> and fairness. >> and fairness. >> and if scott walker and john kasich says, hey, the numbers don't add up. they say you're right, the numbers don't add up. people working for the government shouldn't pay 0% when we're paying 5%, 6%, 10%. but then when you take a step further and say we're going to use this opportunity to crush unions, crush collective bargaining, you're exactly right, harold. and we said it in realtime, that is when you bring in ideology, that's when you push math to the side, and that's what happened last night -- >> you've touched on the past a number of people unionized in the country, how that number continues to fall.

and what it shows to republicans is i think you can't trample the rights of working people. there's no doubt. you've talked about the occupy effort having an impact. there's no doubt all of these efforts playing -- it's just not fair to treat working people that way. john kasich got the message. he said, look, i hear, and i'm going to abide by it. he said last night, "it was too much, too soon." and one other interesting element to this story, kind of a dry run for the obama campaign. obama for america, his grass root supporters fanned out across the state of ohio for weeks and weeks and weeks to get this thing repealed and they did in a big margin, 62% to 38% was the vote. they looked at this as a good step for their campaign in the state -- >> a sign. >> and it's also good for another reason for when people write silly articles about percentages. who's going to win the presidency -- good lord, why did the "new york times" put that on

the front page of their magazine. >> that was on sunday. >> do you believe that? that was the silliest article i've ever read in my life and i can't believe the "times" gave it that much. holy cow. >> anyway -- >> the thing you don't calculate in these little computers that, you know, you type while you're eating chee-tos, you look at -- there's so many variables. in ohio, you now have john kasich who is battered, bruised, in the 30s, that's going to help regardless of the national scene. in a key swing state, that's going to help barack obama. in florida, rick scott, deejay ricky rick. we'll show that later. rick scott also approval ratings in the 30s. none of these elections in these swing states happen in a vacuum. and so i -- i've got to say, yes, last night was great. you're exactly right for them to organize, it's even better for obama and the democrats because they have a governor in the most important swing state.

one of the most important, who is now politically damaged. >> there's tons more election news. harold, real quick. i've got other things -- >> it was a year ago today we were all saying florida, ohio, won by republicans. democrats can't win it. scott kasich won a year ago this week. so think about how much a year can change. >> exactly. let's be disciplined and get to other news. let's be disciplined. >> -- not overreaching. >> exactly. >> everybody overreach -- >> don't overreach. >> we were talking to bill clinton yesterday, and off the set we were talking about the parallels between '94 and 2010, '92. and we both said he overreached in '92, obama overreached in 2008, republicans overreached two years later and the result usually is the country swings back. they are not ideological. i do want to get to mitt romney's response to eric erickson yesterday. but an apparent open microphone

now exposing a private conversation between president obama and french president nicholas sarkozy. according to several journalists who overheard the exchange, sarkozy shared his thoughts about israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu calling him "a liar" and saying he could no longer stand him. president obama apparently replied "you may be sick of him, but me, i have to deal with him every day." the remarks were confirmed by the "associated press" and reuters whose journalists were among those who overheard the conversation. the white house yesterday had no comment. >> and yesterday other jewish leaders very concerned about the statements. that doesn't help the peace process along. what else do we have? for the first time, the ongoing debate in washington, congressional republicans have signaled willingness to compromise on new taxes. yesterday, republicans on the debt reduction supercommittee offered to raise federal tax

collections by some $300 billion over the next decade by rewriting various portions of the tax code. democrats quickly rejected the republican plan saying the offer doesn't get the job done. the rejection of the republican plan is giving more ammunition to republican suggestions that democrats want the supercommittee to fail. this is what chuck schumer predicted on "morning joe" on monday. >> i don't think the gang of -- the supercommittee is going to succeed because our republican colleagues have said no net revenues. >> so we have a response now from republican mitch mcconnell. take a listen. >> well, it's pretty clear when chuck schumer speaks, he's speaking for the most partisan democratic position. and it does raise your suspicion that the folks down at the white house are pulling for failure. because you see if the joint committee succeeds, it steps on the story line that they've been peddling is that you can't do anything with the republicans in congress.

>> jeffrey sachs, i'm sure after reading your book, you're not going to think $300 billion is enough. it's a first step, though. republicans are talking about raising net revenue. >> of course. but just to let people understand, $300 billion over ten years is $30 billion a year. 1% of our national income is $150 billion. so this is 1/5 of 1%. the problem with these numbers, a lot of numbers thrown around, but trying to understand what it really means in the context of the budget is what's key. but the fact of the matter is, revenues are on the table right now. and they need to be on the table. >> for the first time. >> in this sense -- >> for the first time in a quarter century, republicans are talking about raising net revenue. >> when we looked at charts, here the revenue side, here's the spending side. if they would help american people with charts to show what's really at stake, not

these numbers which are almost unintelligib unintelligible, but showing how much are we cutting here? what needs to be raised here? this would clarify the debate incredibly? >> is the response by the democrats productive? is there a more productive way they could have responded to the fact that taxes are on the table now? >> harold, we're in the negotiating stage here. i wouldn't expect the democrats to jump up and down and say yay, yippee. they need to be careful not to dismiss so quickly that they get absolutely slaughtered saying, we told you you couldn't trust them, they kick eed you in the face the first day. this is the no going to be easy. >> one is the audience you speak of. second, if you are a pedestrian watching this and you've watched over the past year or several months and date back to august when the debt debates started and it collapsed and we saw our

downgrading of our debt, you have to wonder, well, maybe the democrats should listen more. this is a small number, but if our democrats, i'd use it as a start and say okay, we have $300 billion, we've won part of that conversation. and say we're making progress. across the nation continues to grow, it's palpable, and people want to see congress get -- >> and speaking of ideology, the thing the democrats have to be careful for. yes, they could run against republicans as a do-nothing congress if they wanted to. their problem is, if they start saying no out of hand to raising $300 billion in taxes, you're right, it's over ten years, but saying no out of hand when they haven't passed a budget in over 900 days because they don't want to be exposed. when republicans are going to be going on the campaign trail waving jobs bills that they passed that the democrats won't vote on in the senate, sudden lip, that gets turned on its head.

and the republicans actually need to keep talking about raising revenue and need to keep talking about compromising. and if the democrats keep their feet basically locked in concrete, it's the democrats who are going to look bad -- >> as small as the number may be, it's something, and it takes away from the party of no argument that the democrats have been making. on the other side, we heard a couple of weeks ago, nancy pelosi said she'd be open to looking at entitlements, looking at social security and medicare. >> exactly. >> we've had this kind of talk where people have budged a little bit. we need to keep pushing it. >> he's there, he's closer, he understands, i am positive. i think things are moving forward. i will say, though, if i'm a republican and i have a democrat running against me next year and the democrat says we're not willing to move on anything. i say we offer to raise taxes $300 billion. tell me, harold ford, tell me,

harold ford, how many more -- how much more do you want americans to pay? >> particularly if democrats have not offered entitlements. >> and i would be able to say, i guarantee you $300 billion may be nothing to you, big liberal democrat, but to the hard-working people in western tennessee, $300 billion -- we have iran and italy to get to. i don't think we will this block. mitt romney responding to -- >> harold would actually attack me for wanting to raise taxes $300 billion. >> yes. >> go ahead. while talking about it in a church pew, but go ahead. that made me cry. that was a good ad. >> that's horrible. >> go ahead. >> do you have any stories about mitt romney? >> mitt romney is now responding to the blog post redstate.com's

eric erickson who wrote about his candidacy. he wrote this, mitt romney is not the george w. bush of 2012. he is only conservative because a few conservative grand pooh-bahs tell us mitt romney is conservative and for no other reason. that's precisely why mitt romney will not win in 2012. but no worry, once he loses, republican establishment types will blame conservatives for not doing enough. he's going to be the republican nominee and his general election campaign will be an utter disaster for conservatives as he takes the gop down with him and burns up what it means to be a conservative in the process. >> okay. so we're going to mark erickson down as undecided. okay. that's an old harry truman joke. a guy comes up to harry truman after he was campaigning, i would never vote for you if you were the last -- and he turns and says, mark him down as undecided.

how did mitt respond? >> well, he's taking the comments in stride telling abc yesterday it's all part of the game. >> i understand that politics is politics, people look for some edge they can get. but people know how i live my life and what i believe on the major issues of the day. and frankly i'm in the race because of the failure of president obama to turn around this economy. and my conviction that having spent my life in the economy, having actually created jobs is a qualification that's necessary for the country to get america back to work today. you know, i'll let the slings and arrows come as they may and continue talking about the failure of this presidency. >> all right. pretty rough the last couple of days, but romney's still ahead in the polls. and we haven't shown anything about herman cain. there's a couple of polls suggesting these scandals are taking a hit. i want to talk about europe quickly. greece in chaos, maybe they're coming together with a deal. but the second greece seems to be settled -- and this happened

a couple of times over the past few weeks, immediately we turn our attention to italy. now, berlusconi moving out. that's chaos. i mean, give people a perspective. these are just destination points for people in manhattan for the most part. talk about how much bigger italy is than greece and how much more of a danger that is. italy falling than even greece. >> i think everybody, of course, has to realize that europe is the second largest economic area in the world. so this is no joke. and if europe goes into a deep slide, which is really possible, this affects the united states, it affects the whole world economy. the problem in europe is huge division between a healthy northern europe and a pretty sick southern europe. southern europe being greece, italy, spain, portugal, and so the question is, can these countries come together? it requires the north make some help for the south. and that's where the objections are. now, italy's the big one in this because it's more than 60

million people. it's about 60 million. greece about 10. and so you have a huge economy here. berlusconi, of course, corruption, scandal, sex scandals, everything. this guy's been at the end of survival. >> seriously. >> for years he's got to go because until he goes, italy can't get fixed. and so this is actually a good thing his departure. in fact -- italy can't solve the economic problems without some leadership. >> italy is going to have to undergo harsh austerity measures, as well, right? >> italy, everybody has to clean up the budgets, the united states, europe, what's interesting is that the big social democracies in the north are the healthiest economies of all. they tax themselves a lot. we don't tax, southern europe isn't taxing, that's a problem. >> all right. >> so you're saying it's all about not enough taxes? >> it's all about closing the gap. whatever you spend, you have to pay for. >> well, exactly. so if you're a libertarian, you

better have policies that support as little government as possible. >> if you slash the government, you don't need to tax, but if you want to pay for government services, you have to tax. >> i don't know if it was you or saxby chambliss on last week, saxby and the gang of six, the numbers, will you just give people numbers? for instance, the number you've given i've quoted over and over again. median income in america declining since 1973 for males. that tells you so much. in america, either you or saxby told me, that we basically tax revenues 14% of gdp, spending's 24%. >> that's the gap. >> it's math. >> you've got to close the gap. >> it's not ideology. it is simple math. >> arithmetic. >> it is. >> and that's what we've got to do, have some charts, look at what the choices are. >> this is why -- >> i know it's boring, we should make this stuff boring again. >> i say math. >> i can't agree with you more.

>> alabama guy says math. >> four letters. >> no, four syllables, arithmetic. >> is that greek? >> more charts. the fact that we didn't talk about sex scandals. that's great. good job, everybody. >> you just did. mayor bloomberg is here, also virginia governor bob mcdonnell celebrating big republican wins in virginia yesterday. also the kentucky governor democrat won, martin o'malley's going to be here, also the co-moderator of tonight's debate, maria bartiromo. coming up next. will tonight's republican debate be the start of the elimination round? but first, you know a guy i would like to eliminate -- >> oh, let's just get rid of him. >> right off the island. >> that's not true. we love bill karins, and he rolls with the punches every morning.

>> rolls, ignores, however you want to classify it. good morning, everyone. i want to show you something very rare, actually. this is one of the strongest storms not just anywhere. we're talking one of the largest storms historically going back through alaska's history. this is the alaska super storm. this is hitting areas with hurricane-force wind, storm surge, power's out in many areas of western alaska. and this storm, by the way, is 1,500 miles across, new york city almost all the way to denver. that's how large that storm is. forecast in the northeast, one more gorgeous day for you. temperatures near record high in some areas. all the stormy weather's in the middle of the country. travel today through chicago, st. louis up to detroit and cleveland, that's where the worst of it will be. also some showers down there in the southeast. west coast, no problems today. looking pretty calm for the middle of your workweek. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the personal attention

tdd# 1-800-345-2550 you and your money deserve. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, that means taking a close look at you tdd# 1-800-345-2550 as well as your portfolio. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 we ask the right questions, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 then we actually listen to the answers tdd# 1-800-345-2550 before giving you practical ideas you can act on. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck online, on the phone, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 or come in and pull up a chair.

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26 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we're going to start with our parade of papers. a disturbing story in the dallas morning news. defense secretary leon panetta has ordered a special review at dover air force base in delaware. after federal investigators said they found gross mismanagement in the handling of the war effort. three senior air officials have been reprimanded. the "new york times" says james murdoch could have embarrassing questions to answer tomorrow when he returns to testify before parliamentary committee investigation in the phone-hacking scandal documents released since his first round of testimony in july have cost doubts on his version of the events. our good friend wrote a fascinating article, he's going to be on tomorrow talking about how james murdoch's handling of

this has caused deep, deep divisions in the murdoch familying. >> it is an incredible article. while mitt romney prepares for tonight's debate in michigan, governor chris christie will make his debut campaigning for the former massachusetts governor in new hampshire. >> hey, jeffrey sachs, earlier we were talking about the extreme storm that's going toward alaska. i was talking to a guy this past weekend, a republican, conservative guy, and he was talking about -- we were talking about the snows across new england. he says get used to it, guys, we'll have more extreme occurrences in the future. and somebody laughed at him and said, what? are you a global warming guy? this goes back to arithmetic, said just look at the numbers. he said -- he said there are -- we are paying out more every year, the weather incidences are becoming more extreme, it's

undeniable. >> it's happening all over the world. we know the ice sheets are melting, we know the sea ice cover in the arctic is disappearing. we know that the typhoons, the hurricanes, the droughts, the floods, we're in the middle of it, joe. and anyone that looks at the numbers like an insurance company has to. they know they're already -- it's not hypothetical, it's not about the future. >> and again, a conservative guy, he says it's about the math. bill karins, just really quickly because i saw this storm going into alaska. this is historic. and t.j., let's show the sweep of this thing. describe the size of this again. and then tell me how many huge storms have we had over the past year? >> yeah, this storm itself is 1,500 miles across. that's a little over half of the united states. and you can see alaska there, huge storm. it's not just large in size, but it's also large in intensity. this is like a hurricane coming onshore in western alaska, mostly rural areas.

we're not going to call this a billion dollar weather disaster. that's the benchmark now. how many billion dollar weather disasters are we having in this country each year? typically it was averaging somewhere between three, five, maybe six at most. now this year, after the october snowstorm, which they're calling a $3 billion weather disaster, we've now had 14 $1 billion disasters this year. we didn't even have a bad hurricane season like we did in 2004 or 2005, so $14 billion weather disasters and somebody's got to pay for that. >> and unfortunately, that's going to be us. >> thank you, bill. >> thank you. >> think about it, willie, they are all epic. that storm in alaska, epic. joplin, missouri, epic, before that tuscaloosa, alabama. people saying -- i remember brian going down to tuscaloosa saying it was one of the worst things he'd seen, a couple of weeks later he had to go to joplin and say this is actually one of the worst things i've seen.

these disasters keep getting bigger, more intense, and for americans, they're going to keep getting more expensive. >> look at the drought in texas. it's not only the storms, but this massive drought -- >> and just this week, hurricanes followed by earthquakes, followed by -- tornadoes followed by earthquakes. how would you like to live in oklahoma? seriously. >> and the skepticism as jeff can tell you is very frustrating because you will see invariably every time there's a snowstorm in october, there'll be a story posted somewhere. oh, what happened to global warming? it's snowing in october. i think we should call it climate change. >> that's exactly right. >> it is climate change -- >> it is warming, and what's interesting, one of the biggest skeptics in this country, professor at the university of california berkeley just released a report a couple of weeks ago saying i was a skeptic, i didn't believe there was real warming, i looked at the data, it's there, it's real, they were right. i couldn't punch holes in the data.

>> there's climate change, let us have a debate on exactly what's causing the climate change, that's fine. but dr. sachs, before we go to politico, the fact is, several years ago, a lot of people champions of climate change simply overreached telling us florida was going to be under water in five years. if you raised any questions, you were burned at the stake. seriously, they were fundamentalists of the climate change movement, and americans said enough. enough. >> but now, i think, people are really coming to look at the data. and i think that's the conclusion. and this isn't about the future any more. we're in it now, and that's what's opening the eyes. >> do you agree -- >> vice president gore is right. >> well, there was an overreach. there was a -- >> the fundamental premise has been right, though. >> there was an overreach back in '05, and you can look at the numbers. and after people started telling us that it was going to be the day after tomorrow some time next week, dr. sachs.

>> day after tomorrow wasn't the best scientific depiction, that movie. >> it was a good movie, though. >> but again, if you want to talk about numbers, then americans will listen. but if you come at it with a fervor saying believe with everything i believe in climate change or else you hate science, americans are going to turn those people off. but anyway. there's no doubt that the numbers are the numbers are the numbers. >> we shouldn't let this topic go like a few others that we cover. let's get to politico at this point. >> like herman cain, we let that one go. >> i want to let that one go. hopefully everyone else will -- >> mr. mike allen has a look at the playbook. hello, mike. >> good morning. while we're on movies, last night i saw "jay edgar." >> how was it? >> people at the fbi not too happy. how far were they going to go with the cross dressing?

they go a lot further including guys kissing, the whole deal. >> you know, dicaprio is an amazing, amazing actor. but you know, he -- his mama is washing him at the end of "the aviator," now he's dressing up as jay edgar. he's a great actor. >> he is. >> i underestimate that guy. dicaprio said one of the worst things he did because the "titanic" because everybody looks to that. he is such an incredible actor, that put him in a box for a while. >> he's gotten past it. >> is it good movie other than the cross dressing? not that there's anything wrong with the cross dressing. >> best politician -- >> the span of history is fascinating, the nixon character looks nothing like nixon, but

sounded like him. there's a great scene where you see him approaching his office, you hear him sounds exactly ke nixon. >> joe? >> let's talk about that big debate. >> joe, no charts if you don't shut up. >> okay. i'm just saying. >> the big debate tonight, cnbc in michigan. politico, you guys, the front page, the headline right now, gop debates enter elimination round. what do you mean by that, mike? >> this is a smart story that points out by this point with so many people watching, so many of these debates, now the candidates have more to lose than to win. these second-tier candidates, the people who want to be where mitt romney is are all trying to avoid some sort of a misstep that will knock them out. so tonight, people are going to watch. can herman cain turn the conversation to policy not personal issues? can rick perry explain dodd/frank in a lucid way? >> let's take our quick herman cain breaks in today's your

story, mike allen. you originated it two sundays ago. how bad has he been affected by this? >> the polls have been mixed so far. there's a reuters poll out that shows his approval dropping. but most of the polls showing him hanging on. fascinating question. why is this? we've talked to a lot of conservatives. some of them have their own media ecosphere where they're not taking this story seriously. also, there's -- they went out on a limb for him. they got to see him at length yesterday at the live press conference where he talked to his wife about it and she says, that doesn't sound like you. >> he also said he never laid eyes on her in his life. he better be sure. >> he'll change that later. >> well, he amended it later. >> and they said, well, are you going to remember this soon? and he said i'm not an expert on how the brain works. >> he'd never seen her. thanks so much.

>> see ya. coming up, the latest on the stunning scandal that has consumed penn state university. reports now saying it's a matter of days or weeks for joe paterno. we'll be right back. ♪ [ female announcer ] give a little cheer to a family of a soldier. just cut out the cheer from your specially marked box of cheerios, write your message, and we'll see that they get it.

the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?" and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams. [ ben harper's "amen omen" playing ] we believe doing the right thing never goes unnoticed.

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the "new york times" is reporting that penn state head coach joe paterno's 62 years with the football program in happy valley may be coming to an end within weeks perhaps days. last night the penn state board of trustees reporting it will launch a full investigation into the allegations found in the grand jury report. hundreds of penn state students and fans rallied outside paterno's home last night in the wake of the sex assault. reported several young boys by former assistant coach jerry sandusky. paterno joined the crowd and commented briefly on the report of assault. >> it's hard to tell you how much this means to me. you guys -- i've lived for this place, lived for people like you guys and girls. and i'm so happy to see that the -- you know that you could feel so strongly about your school. and as i said -- whether you heard me or not, with the kids

who were victims or whatever they want to say, i think we ought to say a prayer for them. tough life when people do certain things to you. but anyway, you've been great. >> it's shocking when you look at that man, the coach who has been a model for 62 years of we thought honor and integrity and everything that's good about college sports. he was told in 2002 by a graduate assistant said he witnessed the sexual assault by a 10-year-old boy -- told joe paterno who said he did the right thing legally, he took it to his superiors -- but what about the -- >> we were talking about that. at penn state, joe paterno had no superiors. that's the reality whether you're talking about penn state, alabama, and one of the sadder moments is, it may have been the 1988 incident when sandusky was challenged by a mother.

and she said, does joe paterno know about this? again, it is hard for people living in the northeast -- i mean, like in states like alaska, bryant was revered, joe paterno and alabama revered to such an extent that it's just unacceptable to a lot of people that he would know this went on, but he did, and he didn't do anything about it. and sadly i love paterno, i've always loved him, but he's got to go. >> and to talk about protocol and well, i did the right thing legally. forget legal, there was a little boy, allegedly being raped in a shower -- >> a 10-year-old boy -- >> protocol is not enough. >> protocol be damned if you see something like that, you have a responsibility to go to the authorities -- >> nothing else matters. nothing else matters. >> and asked the question, what are they doing with the coach? when is he going to trial? when is he going to jail? >> and it's worth asking, 2002

was nine years ago, how many more kids were assaulted? >> let me just tell you -- many more kids -- >> by the way, in 2009 -- >> these are the ones we know about. >> how many more are out there? because -- i hate to say it it's the truth, because joe paterno said nothing to authorities. >> more importantly, he did nothing. >> said nothing, did nothing. >> nobody was on top of him. >> we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ]

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live shot of capitol hill in washington. the sun is coming up. joining us now for the must-read opinion pages, financier and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. you have charts too. we'll do them in the next hour if joe behaves. we're going to start with the "wall street journal." >> i'll do my best. >> i know, you're having trouble today. >> you're wasting time. >> harold is egging you on.

>> he's my leader. >> you have no discipline. quickly on europe, the road from rome may lead to paris, madrid, and other debt-ridden european countries. this is no cause for u.s. chortling because that same road also leads to sacramento, albany, and washington. america's federal debt was 35.7% of gdp in 2007 but it was 61.3% last year and is rising on an italian trajectory. the lesson of italy and most of the rest of europe is never to become a high-tax, slow growth entitlement state because the road is nasty, brutish, and not short. jeffrey sachs, financial times, one last way to rescue the common currency. as part of the credible adjustment, europe needs an infusion of financial support from beyond the eurozone channeled through the imf. we are at the end of an era, not only in europe, but globally. the rising economic powers have

financial surpluses, economic growth, and high stakes in global stability. they have the means to provide new works of the multilateral system. they'll have to make more room for them at the head table. >> yes, they will. steve, let me ask you, does the road lead -- does the road leave from athens to rome to paris to sacramento, to albany, to washington? >> sure. on one level we can look at europe and we can say to ourselves if we allow our fiscal house to get that far out of order, we can end up like italy. >> how far away are we from that? >> we're a good ways. we're at about 60% debt to gdp -- >> is that three years, five years? >> well, if you look at the projections, it's at least five years. here's the important point. this is not just about budget deficits and debt levels. this is about the fundamental competitiveness of an economy. the economy hasn't grown in ten years.

if you talk to sergio who runs fiat it takes them about 100 hours to assemble a car. you tell me how competitive italian business is. italy needs more, i certainly agree with jeffrey about the source -- about bringing in some more cash, but italy needs more -- europe needs more than cash, it needs a fundamental restructuring of their economies to become competitive. >> could we also avoid saying that europe -- this is one of the biggest mistakes of all of the american discussion. there's southern europe that's in crisis, northern europe, which is outcompeting us. they have lower unemployment rates, budget surpluses in many cases, they have longer life expectancy, they are higher tax countries than this united states, but they spent more on their kids, on families, on education, on infrastructure, on energy systems, on environment. >> talk about the countries. >> those are countries like

netherlands, germany, sweden, denmark, finland, norway. so this is a big difference because we keep hearing europe, don't become like europe, we should become like northern europe and the success that they're having. it's the southern europeans. and it's not just high taxes, by the way, because california got trapped when it put in the tax limits in prop 13. >> california has high taxes. >> the point is what killed them is they couldn't adjust budgets on both sides of the ledger. they took off the table taxes. if you take that off the table -- >> jeffrey, california has one of the highest tax rates -- >> what started them on the downward spiral was prop 13. >> you go back to howard -- >> rattner's written about germany -- >> they made up for it in other areas. >> what's made the northern economy successful in my opinion is not high taxes or high programs, it's the fact the productivity is high. the economies function, the programs work -- >> because their kids are

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gracious, please tell me it's time. >> it is time for the news you can't use. we talked at the top of the show about governors. state of ohio, state of florida. i'm not sure this is going to help governor rick scott in the state of florida. he made his debut as what he calls deejay govy-gov.

part of his program let's get to work where he visited a cruise ship to point out the exemplary customer service in cruise lines and what a great job they're doing of hiring folks. for some reason as part of the let's get to work program, he decided to put on the headphones, scratch a few records, and, yes, dance. deejay govy-gov on the turntables. aboard a carnival cruise ship. >> okay. >> there you go. >> i have one more for you. you know the great fighter? >> great fighter. >> he's been sentenced to 40 days community service. well, failed to show up for the hearing. he said he couldn't recover from injuries. unfortunately a couple days later, a video surfaced showing mayweather literally burning $100 bills at an atlanta light club. he was lighting them on fire.

>> come on. >> he was not just making it rain, he was making it rain flaming $100 bills. if you make it rain, you can collect your money if you have to. but once you burn them. >> he probably burned his hand, that's why he couldn't be at the deposition, right? >> now he's got to do community service. >> wow. >> thanks, willie. coming up next, new york city mayor michael bloomberg when "morning joe" comes back. >> good. ♪

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i assure you. nobody knows new york city like i do, huh? >> you should have no problem passing the just invented new york city citizenship test. name the five boroughs of new york city. >> manhattan, brooklyn, yankee stadium, starbucks, and robert de niro. >> are you talking to me? >> yes, i am. >> derek jeter's greatest accomplishment? >> minka. >> translate the following phrases. i find what you are saying hard to believe. >> get outta here. >> quit being such a jerk. >> get outta here. >> kindly leave the premises. >> get outta here! >> welcome back to "morning joe." steve rattner, harold ford jr., still with us. joining the table, oh, dr.

sachs, as well. we have new york city mayor michael bloomberg with us today. >> good morning. >> you had an interesting speech. >> he's making trouble again. >> i don't think so. >> what are you doing? >> i would say one part of your speech, if i'm correct, you call for an end to the bush tax cuts. >> that's the part of the speech you focus on. >> but he also talked about cutting. >> yeah, both. it's a joke unless you do both, you'll never get us out of this problem. and the biggest problem is uncertainty. if the community, the business community, individuals who have to make decisions to buy a new house or take a vacation. if they don't have confidence that our government is going to carry us through tough times, then they're not going to make investments, they're not going to hire people, they're not going to spend, and that's the problem we have now. and i think you can see it this morning where the uncertainty of a government in italy and greece is sending the markets plummeting, whereas this was supposed to be the be all and end all and give them confidence, it did not because now they don't know when they'll

have a new government and who it will be and what they stand for. uncertainty is a big problem. >> talk about how wall street is connected to italy, connected to greece, connected to the eu. >> well, wall street probably doesn't -- american wall street probably doesn't own that many bonds from the countries in europe that we're worried about defaulting. but they do business there and all of our economies are tied together. we live in a global world. so if europe, for example, shrinks their economy, then the united states has a smaller market to sell to and the same thing for asia. you would expect asian markets and companies feel in trouble when europe's in trouble. >> interdependent. let's look at both, i agree. but in terms of the bush-era tax cuts, not just for the wealthy, why would you propose that if i'm correct? and also, what was the impact of those cuts on the economy? >> two reasons. number one that i think it's

fair. i don't like class warfare. everybody pays taxes, we have a graduated income tax so those that have more, pay more. but everybody's in this country together. they all benefit and should understand it's their money. and the other reason to get rid of the bush-era tax cuts, political l politically, it's the only chance of getting done. the president, all he's got to do is veto -- change any new bill and have a handful of people supporting him so his veto doesn't get overridden. but the president could get this. and i think it's great politics. it's time for the president to stand up and say, look, this is what i believe, this is the only way we're going to get out of this problem, and i'm going to do it whether it's good politics o or not. and i think he'd be well-received for doing that. >> you know, steve rattner, orzag proposed th -- >> how did he get my speech in advance? >> he did. but i'm saying, there aren't a

lot of people that will talk about getting rid of all of the bush-era tax cuts, they just say for the millionaires, billionaires, but if you look at the revenue stream over a decade for getting rid of it for everybody, it's extraordinary. >> yeah, that's $4 trillion. it's $4 trillion. >> over a decade. >> over ten years if you get -- you could solve this whole thing, you could go big as the budget people like to say if simply you did this one thing. and the -- >> no, you'd have to do the tax cuts -- expense cuts. >> right. i'm saying you could get to the $4 trillion number people are talking about. and you could go beyond it with all of this other stuff. but the politics of raising taxes has become toxic in this country. people don't want to pay for things. so even though all that the mayor is proposing going back to the clinton-era tax rates, which did fine and we all did fine, with all of this new spending that's happened, people don't want to pay for it. >> i think the point the mayor made that he's not amplified enough in the piece, he's

supported that last year. those things have not been done. and as a result, i think your position is not a default -- >> keep in mind, even if you get rid of the bush-era tax cuts, we still will have very low rates compared -- personal income tax rates compared to other developed countries. now, the reverse is true on corporate. >> would you lower the corporate rate? >> yes, because you want to have people come here and create jobs. that's what we need. our economy isn't so much that people aren't making money, it's that they're not creating jobs. we have companies doing more with less, we need to help companies do more with more because that's the biggest thing here. and if you don't do something about this now, it's just going to get worse and worse. i said in the speech, kicking the can down the road is really kicking ourselves in the head because other countries are continuing to improve and become more competitive with us.

their education systems are catching up, because of our crazy immigration policies, companies and industries are being created overseas. and so you just have to do something. and the way the law works right now is that this committee doesn't do something unless something they're being asked to do would save 13% of the deficit. it's ridiculously small. but if they don't do that, then you have this sequestered stuff where it's automatic and it would be devastating for the country. panetta says that the country would be in danger, you can go right down the list, people really need help would have the help taken away. it is the worst scenario. the trouble we all have if you do something small, they're not going to have any pressure to get to something big and the problem's going to get worse and worse. >> jeffrey sachs is with us, and we didn't want him at the same table. >> why is that? >> well, you know, he -- >> yeah. >> he talks big. >> so jeffrey, a lot of americans have a two-dimensional view of keynesian economics. they think it's just spending.

but there is another side of it. the tax cuts could also stimulate the economy. i want to ask you a question and have you ask the mayor a question. but is there a danger in raising taxes or allowing the bush-era tax cuts to be taken off the table at a time when our economy's struggling the way it is? >> i don't think so. it's the idea that stimulus is really the key has been shown to be wrong again and again. we can't look so short-term. we need a way out. i think what the mayor's saying is we need a credible approach to our budget is really important right now. so i really like that he's putting on the table this very balanced approach. but i wanted to ask the mayor what are we going to do about skills? and you look at new york city, you look at the number of kids that can't make it through college right now. we know that there aren't good jobs out there. how can we get this skill levels up especially for, you know, kids growing up in poor households, immigrant families,

and so on? because that's really where our competitiveness is going to depend in the future. >> we always say education is the answer. and if you take a look, cairo came apart because you had college-educated kids that couldn't get jobs. madrid, 20% unemployment rate in spain. so one side of the answer is, yes, you have to improve the education system, but it is a very big long-term problem. anything that's repetitive gets automated, which means fewer jobs, and in a global world, if you don't have to be near your customer, the jobs can move any place in the world, which means they'll move to the lowest priced place. so, for example, a plumber has that lot more pricing power than a computer code writer. you can write computer code any place in the world, the plumber has to be in your neighborhood or he can't fix your plumbing. and i think you've hit on one of the real -- the seminal problem we have going forward and it's not just us. every country in the world's going to face this. how do we create jobs that match

the skill sets that our citizens have or can obtain? >> okay. and steve rattner, we're going to do your charts next. but you have one that pertains to loopholes and how they could make a difference. >> eliminating the loopholes, which, of course, republicans talked about yesterday, that $300 billion offer on the table. democrats said that wasn't enough. but going through your charts, we're talking about actually getting rid of the bush tax cuts. but also closing loopholes has been on the table. what does that mean? where does the money go? >> well, look, the point i was trying to make was you observed a lot if we got rid of these loopholes, we could address tax rates. and the so-called expenditures are $1 trillion a year, equal to the income tax, so there's a whole lot of things to choose from. one of the points that the stuff people talk about which is eliminating the depreciation of corporate jets. if you want to address the question of warren buffett's tax rates versus your tax rates, you

have to eliminate the capital gains and dividend rate of 15% and have them pay 35% that everybody else pays. >> all right. >> which really is the buffett rule. when the president talks about raising the top margin rate. if you want to get at warren buffett, you've got to -- >> do you support that, as well? or do you think raising tax rates is enough? >> tax policy is for two reasons. one, to raise money because if we want to hire people to provide services, your money's got to come from some place. and in this country, we have taxes and get it that way. the other thing is that you have taxes to incent or disincent certain kinds of economic activity. so when we didn't want farmers to plant, we paid them to not plant. in this day in age, that doesn't make any sense. we paid people to drill in one place and not in others. we paid people, for example, the sales tax, which is generally not collected on internet sales, we did it to strengthen the industry. but whenever any of these industries change or the world changes, we never get rid of any

of those tax cuts. and you can go through a whole bunch of them and say they're nice, i know why people want them because they benefit from them. but the policy issue has gone away. and then they should get cut back and so everybody pays fairly the same thing. >> what incentives do we need to push? >> well, farm incentives, energy incentives, i've talked about the carried interest on hedge funds. it's a nice idea. i think you should do a number of these kinds of things. but i think the answer is to make tax policy or spending cuts sitting around a table with a pressure of we've got to get something by november 23rd is just insanity. and that's why on the cut side the first thing i would do is say let's take simpson/bowles and adopt it in the entirety, at least the expense side. maybe one or two things not. >> were you disappointed the president didn't even follow the advice of his own commission? >> well, i think the president should've let congress debate it

and have a vote on it and yes, i was, because i think they are smart guys, but most importantly, they did a lot of real research. they didn't look at the political fallout. they looked at the economics. and the supercommittee doesn't have the luxury and time to do that. >> has the president shown leadership when it comes to the deficit? >> well, i would blame both sides of the aisle, and incidentally the press and public and everybody else. i think has been said, you can't sit there and say i want stuff, but i'm not going to pay for it. there are no free lunches, republicans say there are, we're not going to cut taxes, the democrats say we can want cut anything. they all say it's stimulus for new jobs. it doesn't show that. we've spent a fortune on stimulus and we have a bigger problem. $ 14 million people unemployed in this country. >> boy, mika, you listen to the mayor -- >> yeah. >> you've got republicans who

are being irresponsible on one side. >> completely. >> and democrats being irresponsible on the other side. >> i'm not sure i like where you're going. >> we need a solution. we need salvation, we need a third-party candidate. >> here we go. >> i think mika should run. >> all right, mr. mayor, that's sweet, but let me ask you about occupy wall street. i obviously over the past few weeks, your police department has gotten some criticism for how some of the situations were handled. but moving forward, moving ahead, how do you look at this group? how would you characterize what they stand for? and do they stand for something important as it pertains to the future of this country? >> well, the thing they stand for that's important is the right to protest, freedom of speech. but just step back for a second. there are -- and this is what we were talking about before. there's enormous amount of people in this country that don't think it's going in the right direction. i think that's clear. it's manifest in the tea party. it's manifest in occupy wall street. it's manifest in people not

being willing to take a vacation, buy something, new house move whatever. and there's just a variety of different ways you can show it. if you take a look at the group in this one park that we have, it's a whole bunch of people that are just disaffected. they don't know what's wrong, they say we don't know what we want, but we want it now, which is as good a way as saying it. it's the government, the press, and those of us who have insight on how policies affect people. but they want to be able to have something change so that their lives are going to be better. and they express it by camping out and yelling and screaming and that sort of thing. i will say in all fairness to the people down there, we watch very carefully, they generally do not break the law when they protest. they march in a line, they stay on the sidewalks, they follow the direction of the police. they exercise their first amendment rights. they go back. they're in one controlled park.

and we haven't seen the kinds of things you see in other cities where people are running through the streets destroying commerce and reputation. if you go one block away from this park, you would never know it exists. it just literally in any direction, one block away, there's just nothing. the police department and i don't agree with what you said about some things, if nobody reports a problem to them, they can't do anything. they maintain order. when our fire department saw something they thought was dangerous, gasoline and generators in the park, we walked in, and we asked the people to give them -- to surrender them, we took them out, we gave them a ticket, you can get them at some place where we stored them. and they were cooperative. i would prefer that we open the park up to more people being able to come through. i think the park is designed to let people be there and express themselves. it's not necessarily designed for sleeping. but nevertheless, this is a part of a much bigger thing that we

should really be focused -- >> a legitimate movement? >> a legitimate movement? >> i don't know what that movement is. my era before you were born, they protested vietnam. and i remember all the marches down wall street. everybody was on to one thing, vietnam, get out of vietnam. this time, if you have 200 people in a park, you only have 200 different things they think is wrong. there's no leadership, there's no one thing. it's the commoncommonality. and it's the same thing with the tea party and how business people behave. we have uncertainty, things aren't going the way we want, and nobody seems to be able to fix them or try to fix them seriously. >> mayor bloomberg, thank you very much. >> thanks for being here. >> fascinating speech yesterday. coming up this hour, maryland governor martin o'malley and virginia governor, cnbc's maria bartiromo and john harwood join us next. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning, mika. the big weather story of the day

and maybe even the week or month is the super storm affecting alaska. just heard in the nome area, they had a storm surge about 6 to 7 feet high. their seas were only 5 feet high. so we know that the water and waves were overlapping. that's on the western coast of alaska. that's where the worst of the storm was heading. once again, it's intense and just huge. 1,500 miles across. that's over half the size of our lower 48 just to give you an idea of how big a storm and how historical of a storm it is. we have our own storm to deal with in chicago. producing some now in northern portions of missouri up through iowa where the roads were a little treacherous outside of des moines. one more beautiful day from boston all the way down to d.c. someone's going to have a chance at 70 degrees and near record warmth. west coast, no the bad, slight chance of showers in seattle. and dallas, much cooler and windy, temperatures there upper 50s to low 60s. you're watching "morning joe." one more day of beautiful warmth in new york city. we're brewed by starbucks.

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all right. welcome back, 22 past the hour. joining us now from rochester, michigan, the moderators of tonight's cnbc republican presidential debate, cnbc's maria bartiromo and john harwood. and joining us now on the set, ceo of mdc partners, miles nadal. good to have you back on the show. let's start with maria. obviously with cnbc hosting this debate, there'll be a heavy focus on jobs and the economy. which candidate has the most to prove on this issue, do you think? >> well, you know, it's interesting, mika. because i think one of the goals of tonight is to really get a true sense of what the difference is in terms of the plans here. most of the candidates have put out tax reform plans as a solution to creating jobs.

so we really want to get at why, in fact, that is the best path to create jobs. they all have their tax cut plans or their tax reform plans that they want to talk about. we really want to connect the dots in terms of why that means job creation. and that's what we're going to try to figure out tonight. >> mitt romney's -- >> go ahead. >> no, you go. >> mitt romney's got a 59-point plan, but he hasn't been able to close the sale with republicans. so he's got in his home turf here, the state where he was born, where his father was the governor, he's got to answer questions about what's the right path forward for the auto industry, were mistakes made? did he make mistakes in his advocacy there? and try to make the sale with republicans who haven't been willing to jump onboard. >> and that's what we were going to talk about, john, we talked about an erick erickson post that got the republican party and conservative movement talking.

one of the things he said was he wasn't that true conservative, but jon huntsman may be, and said huntsman had the best economic plan of all of the republicans out there, which is, i think it was a surprise when i read it from "the journal." what is huntsman's plan? >> well, huntsman has a tax reform plan that reduces rates, it's not a flat tax. he's got three rates for personal income. he would dramatically bring down the corporate rate. and he's got a story to tell about what happened in utah. this race, as you know, joe, is so formless. with so many people rising and falling at different points in the process, mitt romney keeping on steady but taking hits like that from erick erickson from rush limbaugh who say he's not a conservative. there's clearly an opening for someone to consolidate support. herman cain has been doing that, how much longer can he do that? huntsman is one who has not yet had his moment in the sun. he's got an opportunity tonight. >> and huntsman brings to the

table the strength on china. even though we talk so much about the growth in china and really the -- the question of where america fits as china is growing so much, we haven't really moved the needle when it comes to some of these big issues in china, like the currency issue that it's anti-competitive for the u.s. or like the fact that u.s. companies really do not have a foothold in china. they can only do 49% joint venture. and so we really need to see how american companies can actually be able to sell to that 1.5 billion people. >> maria and john, good morning, good luck this evening. harold ford, real quick, you mentioned cars. i know some have been critical of the auto industry. until light of the industry in the past year, what could they have done differently? but finally, i'd love to know how do you plan to get into this debt issue tonight? the republicans have offered according to reports $300 billion revenue tax increase over the next ten years,

democrats have rejected it. do you plan to get into that? because all the republicans in the previous debate said none of them would support tax increases as part of a debt deal. it would be interesting to hear how they react to what the republicans want to do in the congress. >> well, congressman, that gets to the core question that has come up in some previous debates about taxes. and what are tax increases? the republicans, when they offer revenue like that, they're talking about dynamically scoring their proposals to cut taxes. they're looking at a method of analysis that is not included in the official score by the independent arbiters on capitol hill. democrats are saying, no, the tax increases we need to have to make a compromise with you and to cut social security and medicare are real tax increases, and so there's a difference between what's -- what revenue really is. that's been a bit fuzzed over. but what john boehner -- at one point he was saying we'll take

some revenue as long as we don't raise tax rates. but lately, the kind of revenue that he and other republicans have been talking about is revenue from economic growth, democrats don't think it's real. >> and in a similar vein, you have to wonder if, in fact, eliminating a subsidy on ethanol is considered raising taxes. is this a tax increase they cannot support? so the question of what really is a tax increase is really an important one. you know, i also think it's worth noting that all of the candidates, and i think had most people will agree we have a real problem in terms of long-term deficit control here and deficit reduction. so medicare, medicaid, social security, obviously the sacred cows. we want to get into and find out specifically where the big cuts will be. >> big questions on the table. miles nadal, you run a global company. you've got the moderators of tonight's republican debate, what do you want to hear tonight? >> well, i think specifically job creation is the number one issue on the table.

and people talk about what inducements will be anecdotally go to create jobs? i think the issue is, what are they going to do specifically? what initiatives will actually induce job creation? specifically if there is going to be tax reform, what are the initiatives that are going to induce corporations to hire more people domestically? one of the things maria talked about was doing business in the bric countries, china, russia, india, et cetera, will create demand. they're not creating them in america, they're creating them in the local markets. so the key is creating jobs in domestically and creating tax incentives that induce corporations to hire here. >> steve rattner? >> and of course, one of the big issues surrounding that is, of course, the repatriation of profits, which i think business people today are hoping that they do see a change at some

point. i think the super committee is really attacking this right now. nancy pelosi told me a week ago that this is one of the issues they're talking about, trying to come to an agreement in terms of having companies bring some of that profit earned overseas back to the united states. we're talking about $2 trillion that could potentially come back to the u.s. >> as you know, maria, that repatriation is controversial and there's not a lot of evidence it does create jobs in the u.s. let me go back to what miles said. i think he's on the right point. which is these guys have pretty much endorsed the cap and balance budget proposals that would lower taxes and cut spending. most economists would say that's not a recipe to short-term job creation. so i think it would be great if you could press these people as to exactly how they're going to get the unemployment rate down. i think this business about streamlining regulation and things like that, it's all at the margin. this is not what's going to lower the unemployment rate. >> well and, of course, you've got this fundamental divide.

between those who think that demand is going to come from giving more revenue to business and providing incentives for them to hire, but another huge issue is consumer demand. we've had hundreds of billions of dollars being sucked out of the economy because consumers have been deleveraging, they've been reducing their credit card debt, student loan dead is now bigger than credit card debt. where does the demand come from in an economy that has been driven by consumer demand over the last couple of decades? big question. >> which is why i think this group, the republicans really want to call their plan a growth plan as opposed to a jobs plan because they feel you've got to get growth going to get that demand going to have businesses feel like there's going to be a customer there at the end of the day. >> maria bartiromo, john harwood, thank you so much. good luck tonight. we'll see you at the debate at 8:00 eastern time on cnbc. >> you know what i'd love to do? >> what? >> we've got three guys working here in the public sector, i want to ask them when we come

back, how do you grow the economy? how do you create jobs? >> specifically. >> specifically. how last night's elections impacted the 2012 presidential race. we're going to talk to the chairman of the democratic governor's association. governor martin o'malley joining us next on "morning joe." [ man ] flight 373 is delayed. who needs internet? hotspot $5! [ indistinct conversations ] i can see who's on my network, people! ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." look at the white house. another beautiful morning. joining us now, the democratic governor of maryland and the chairman of the democratic governors association, governor martin o'malley joining the conversation. good to have you. >> governor, thank you so much for being with us. but more importantly, thank you for that ugly terrapin shirt, which i will be wearing on the air. mika walked into the office and saw it, jumped back and said what the hell is it? >> i thought it was a dead animal. i thought it was still alive and needed to be taken care of. >> it's a beautiful shirt, though. >> we're so glad you liked it. >> congratulations, the ravens had a great sunday. >> that was tremendous. goes to show what perseverance and sticking with it can result in. >> yeah, no doubt about it. so we've got a republican debate tonight on the economy. we're talking about job growth. talk about what maryland is doing right now to bring jobs to that state?

and what these republican candidates and democratic candidates need to focus on, to bring jobs not only to america, maryland, but also america. >> so far on the year, joe, maryland ranks tenth among the 50 states in new job creation. the way that you go about that, we believe, is first and foremost by investing in the talents, the skills, the innovative capacity of our people. and also by making investments in that common platform of ours, name live our infrastructure that commerce and businesses to thrive. so in the hard-hit construction trades industry, for example, maryland with our aaa bond rating. because we balance and move forward at the same time was able to support about 15,000 construction jobs, building things that the public is going to need for generations to come. it's interesting, you know, in the talk about what happened in this election cycle, we had two governors in west virginia and

kentucky, two states that president obama had not won, but they prevailed. in fact, last night in kentucky, steve bashir completed what i think was a near perfect campaign. how did he do it? by focusing on the choices we can make together to create jobs and expand opportunity. >> also as other people said, it also helped he had a terrible opponent. >> that doesn't hurt. >> you would like to have him as an opponent. maybe they can ship him from kentucky to maryland. but good point. kentucky went mccain. last night a democrat won, same thing happened in west virginia. in virginia, republicans had a good night. in ohio, though, mika, that's -- i think that's the big news, isn't it? >> let's talk about that, governor. they repealed a law that was passed earlier this year that limits the bargaining power of more than 350,000 unionized workers. what do you think the national implications of that are? what was the message clearly? >> well, i think -- i think it shows this. look, more people turned out to

vote against that anti-union collective bargaining ban than voted for republican governor kasich to begin with. so i think the overreach is what people of ohio were pushing back against. they thought when they made a change at the polls in their -- in the office of governor that their governor would truly be focused on the economy and on job creation. instead governor kasich, not unlike some other republican governors took a hard right turn, overreached, tried to use the budget challenges to do away with unions for firefighters, police and teachers. and i think the voters rightly said, hey, what does that have to do with job creation? we want leaders that are going to bring people together to solve problems and do the things that work. and banning unions and collective bargaining, that doesn't do a thing to create jobs or save jobs. >> i certainly was a fascinating outcome. steve rattner? >> going back to where you began

on the creation of jobs in maryland. of the things on the table in washington, things realistically in the mix and could happen, what could washington do that in your view as somebody close to the ground as in washington most help the job creation process in the country? >> well, two of the things that the president has advanced i hope will return to the debate after the super committee gets done with its business. one of them was the jobs -- the component of the jobs bill to -- to save jobs for teachers, firefighters, other public sector employees, and the second one was investments in infrastructure. let me explain on the first one. look, to a lot of us, it feels in our economy that we're taking two or three steps forward and one step back. and that's because for every two or three jobs this year that's opini been created for the private sector, the public has eliminated one job. the sort of cut, cut, cut approach that lack of a balanced

approach is leading counties, cities, and states to actually slow down our jobs recovery because of the layoffs that are happening of teachers and firefighters. infrastructure, we're way behind in what we invest in our roads, our bridges, our tunnels, and those are the two things i believe that congress could do in a bipartisan way to create jobs and accelerate rather than slow down this jobs -- >> governor o'malley, good to see you this morning. you've called the republican party nationally in washington very obstructionist, standing in the way everything the president wants to do. >> that's right. >> what can -- given that, what can the president do? we know he's taken some of these executive actions. what can we do to change that calculation in washington where you have a party saying no to the president and a president who can't get anything done with those people. how do we get around that to get things done? >> well, i think first and foremost, we have to make a better case to the people that we serve. as to what we're trying to do and what we are -- what our

goals are. and i think the president's done that very, very effectively over these last few weeks. making it very clear to moms and dads throughout our country that he cares about jobs. he's fighting for jobs, and these other guys who are obstructing the jobs recovery. the other thing we need to do is a much better job of talking about the things that are starting to get a little better. what am i talking about? how about 13 months in a row of positive job creation. first time that's happened since 2005. is that good enough? no, it's not good enough. >> oh -- >> i'm going to stop you right there. >> how can you seriously say that? >> if you could see that he has -- >> joe -- mika, excuse me. we're entitled to -- >> he doesn't have a monitor, does he? >> he's wearing it. and now i can't look at him. >> i can't believe it's the punch line -- i'm wearing your ugly fear the turtle jersey.

>> see now -- >> it's awful. >> i didn't understand what your gasps were all about. it's about the jersey, it wasn't about the 13 months in a row positive job creation in our country. >> it was about, perhaps one of the ugliest jerseys i've ever seen in my life. and willie, at the bottom, what does it say? fear the turtle. really. >> seriously? >> joe, i think it looks very -- i think it looks stunning, athletic, and i think it becomes you. >> okay. well, thank you very much. and if you could do me a favor. next time you send me a jersey from maryland, send me something that's not an extra small. >> they say that's how they make them for the football players. maryland corporation. >> that's a good american company based in baltimore, maryland. underarmour. >> this is horrible. you've got to redesign. >> i need a uva jersey now

because coming up governor bob mcdonnell. the republicans, big night last night in virginia. it was one of the few states where they had something to smile about. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] how are we going to make this season better than the last? how about making it brighter. more colorful. ♪ and putting all our helpers to work? so we can build on our favorite traditions by adding a few new ones. we've all got garlands and budgets to stretch. and this year, we can keep them both evergreen. more saving. more doing.

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." with us now, the republican governor of virginia. governor bob mcdonnell. governor, bad news for republicans in ohio, bad news for republicans in kentucky, bad news for republicans in west virginia. but good news for republicans in the state of virginia. a crucial swing state in '08 and again in '12. what happened last night? >> well, there's a lot more good news than that, joe. you were too easy on o'malley. you let him off the hook. >> i should have done that. i feel really bad. why don't you -- i feel so

badly, why don't you send me a uva football jersey extra large this time? o'malley sent me an extra small. my 8-year-old girl's going to be wearing it as a dress this weekend. but tell me -- you said there's some good news in virginia. tell us about it. >> well, there's a lot more than that. last night, we won at least eight legislative seats, picked up six to eight in the house of delegates, which was the highest number, total of republican seats in the virginia house we've ever had in history. 66 to 68 seats out of 100. we've picked up two seats in the senate. the senate is now 20/20 with the republican tie vote giving republicans effective control. it was a huge win. i think it was a repudiation of many of the president's policies. but more importantly, i think a verification or validation of our problem solving, projob, pro economic policy -- >> what are republicans doing right in virginia that they aren't doing right in kentucky,

west virginia, or ohio? >> well, let me say, west virginia and kentucky had incumbent governors who won reelection. we won reelection in mississippi with an open seat last night, phil bryant won big down there, bobby jindal won in louisiana two weeks ago. so basically the governors have been a status quo this year. >> it's a split. >> the last two years we picked up seven new governors, they picked up seats in the mississippi legislature last night. in ohio, i would say this. i think john kasich had the guts to tell the people of ohio, we can't keep these same union policies and we can't keep spending the way we're spending and have a prosperous ohio. he also won the ballot initiative that was around repudiation of obama care. the question number three on the ballot. so i would say the republicans did very well. big news here out of virginia. and next year when we have a chance to hire a new president of the united states, i think

this -- these elections will give us a lot of momentum going into next year. >> that -- by the way, that reminds me of the mississippi abortion vote. that one went down, right, governor? >> yeah, i believe that failed. i didn't look at it all that closely. the big race, obviously the governor's race that we won big. but there are a lot of local ballot questions that is up to the choice of the people. different states make different choices. i'll tell you the big news overall in the past couple of years is going from 22 to 29 republican governors. and i think it's a validation that republican governors focusing on job creation, cutting spending, reforming government, having pro-american energy policies, and being honest about the fact that we can't run -- we can't run states like this president's running washington. 9.1% unemployment, $14 trillion in debt and growing, joe, we can't keep doing that, and that's going to be the debate next year.

who's got the best vision for jobs, cutting spending, and getting america back on a healthy fiscal track. that's the whole ball game next year. >> we've been talking around the table this morning about how the election results show that americans are not by and large ideological. bottom line, right now ideological. bottom line right now they want jobs. they want the economy moving again. >> absolutely. >> i think one of the things that i have a difference of opinion. everybody's talking about how we get big corporations to hire. i think the mayor talked about doing more with less. i think it's what are we doing to stimulate small businesses to hire. there are 6 million small businesses in america. if every single one of the businesses -- small businesses in america was induced to hire one job that would create more jobs than we will create in the next four years. i think small business is the great area of opportunity. >> what can government do to provide tax incentives to grow

small business? >> well, that comment is absolutely right. in virginia, 70% of all new jobs are the small businessman, the entrepreneur, the venture capitalists taking the risk and getting more people to live the american dream. what we're doing and the difference between virginia and washington is we don't blame people. we take responsibility. we've got -- we cut taxes, regulations, litigation, have a right to work law, the same thing governor kasich tried to do last night. no collective bargaining for public sector employees. virginia is number one in the country according to cnbc in job creation. you've got to have a positive attitude. in washington they blame wall street, the tea party, house republicans. you've got to take responsibility, get things done, turn down the rhetoric. focus on problem solving and tell businesses and wall street you think they do something good because they are job creators and it's working. tax incentive for small business

and cutting down bureaucracy and regulations is exactly what they need to thrive, joe. >> thank you very much. congratulations on last night and congratulations on beating the turtles this past weekend. >> absolutely. go withahoos! >> absolutely. it's fascinating being on the show and interviewing one politician after another, one governor after another. you see somebody like bob mcdonald who wasn't supposed to win. he was overly ideological, right wing. >> he was on message. >> he talked about jobs, jobs, jobs, optimistic. you saw scott walker get pounded when he was hiding in his office. scott comes out and says, you know what, i overreached. i should have listened more and talked less. mcdonald works with democrats. chris christie works with democrats. successful governors on both sides work with the other side. it's not a difficult formula.

>> you said it right, joe. i don't think the people are ideological as much as they want jobs. they will look to whoever is focus on their needs. seems to be doing the job and creating jobs isn't waving a magic wand. it's a series of small steps the governors can take to just improve the economy bit by bit. those doing it will get re-elected and those that aren't won't. >> what's great to see is mcdonald was very much about accountability. it's about taking ownership and people want practicality and practical initiatives that are going to lead to job creation. >> whether you look at bob mcdonald from virginia on the right. >> yeah. >> or martin o'malley, border state on the left. both guys are aggressive and lean forward in their own way. they are rewarded by the voters. >> they are ones to watch for

sure. miles, thank you for being here. still ahead, eric bates with how occupy wall street was born and where it is going now. [ thunder rumbles ] what is the sign of a good decision? in the world of personal finance, it's massmutual. find strength and stability in a company that's owned by its policyholders. ask your advisor, or visit massmutual.com.

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to help improve braking performance. we don't just make luxury cars. we make cadillacs. good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set dr. jeffrey sacks and harold ford, jr. >> the elections last night in ohio. a big setback for republicans. >> absolutely.

>> virginia positive for republicans. >> mm-hmm. >> you talk about berlusconi all the way across the seas. jeffrey giving us a big thumbs-up. >> time to go. >> is it? >> absolutely. >> wasn't it a long time ago? >> about 17 years. >> oh, come on now. also the elections -- the republicans came forward with an offer to increase taxes yesterday. increase revenue to the federal government. >> mm-hmm. >> that is a first step. that hasn't happened in about 17 years. >> that's a new one. >> that is a new one. chuck schumer was on the show yesterday and said something that got them fighting on capitol hill. he said this super committee was doomed to fail. >> i still hope it's not. can we say that? let's dive in. a year ahead of the 2012 elections there was another important election night on tuesday with democrats scoring a number of victories on the state level. in ohio, voters repealed a law

passed earlier this year that limit it is bargaining power of 350,000 unionized workers. it comes after republican governor john kasich told state democrats last november to, quote, get on the bus or we're going to run you over. last night he delivered a more humbled message. >> it is clear that the people have spoken. you know, my view is when people speak in a campaign like this and a referendum, you have to listen when you're a public servant. there isn't any question about that. i have heard their voices. i understand their decision and, frankly, i respect what people have to say in an effort like this. >> what do you think? >> well, i think we saw in wisconsin scott brown pushed forward. >> mm-hmm. >> realized that he may have pushed forward too aggressively. >> corrected a little.

>> corrected a little bit. start talking to democrats. john kasich didn't make the correction. so the people corrected him last night. and, you know, it's very interesting. jeffrey sacs, chris christie isn't the most popular republican governor in the nation for nothing. he fought hard his first year but then he figured out, hey, i have to work with democrats in the assembly. so chris christie is sitting at 57, 58, 59%. john kasich is in the 30s and was dealt a serious blow. you cannot shove legislation like this down people's throats without paying the price ultimately. >> the public's moderate. >> the public is not ideological. >> the public is in the middle of the issues and they didn't want to see the unions crushed. they don't like this anti-teacher campaign, anti-teachers' union campaign. they spoke loud. the governor is right.

he was soundly defeated last night. >> it's rough. >> very important. >> harold, rough for john kasich. what does it mean? >> i think everything you have said plus this helps democrats. it helps the president a bit in this state. they will obviously try to grab onto the issue and tie the issue to job creation. it goes back to something -- and i give mika credit early in the wisconsin debate raising the question can with scott walker. when you won the debate, when the unions said they would renegotiate why would you take the step of saying now we want to end your right to bargain and negotiate for better conditions and better pay. >> you're right. we did say that. everybody around the table said that. you know, it's okay. voters understand math. if john kasich -- >> fairness. >> if scott walk around john kasich and everybody else says,

listen, the numbers don't add up, then americans look at the number and say, you're right. the numbers don't add up. people working for the government shouldn't pay 0% into retirement and we pay 5, 6, 10, 15%. when you take it a step further and say we'll use this opportunity to crush unions and collective bargaining you're right, harold. we said it in real time. that's when you bring in ideology. that's what happened. >> the number of people unionized in the country, the number continues to fall. it shows a lot of republicans you can't trample the rights of working people. you have talked about the occupy effort. all of these efforts played into the people saying it's not fair to treat working people that way. john kasich got the message and in due respect to john he said, i hear, i will abide by it. >> he said, quote, it was too

much, too soon. i think he realizes that. one other interesting element to the story, a dry run for the obama campaign. obama for america has grassroots support in ohio for weeks to get it repealed. they did in a big margin. 62-38 was the vote. they look at it as a good step for the campaign. >> it's also good for another reason. when people write silly articles about percentage of likelihood that i will eat a donut tomorrow on who will win the presidency? good lord, why did the new york times put that on the front page. >> oh, yeah, sunday. >> that was the silliest article i have ever read. i can't believe the times gave it that much -- holy cow. >> okay. we have a lot more to get to. >> the think you don't calculate in the little computers, you're typing at while you eat your

cheetos. you now have john kasich battered and bruised. rick scott, d.j. ricky-rick. approvals in the 30st. that will help barack obama. none of these elections in the swing states happen in a vacuum. so i've got to say, yes, last night was great. you're right. for them to organize it's better for obama and the democrats because they have a governor in the most important swing state. one of the most important who is now politically damaged. >> there is tons more election news. harold, real quick. i have other things to get to. >> a year ago today we were saying, ohio, democrats can't win it. scott walker won a year ago this week. november 9th. think about how much a year can change. >> exactly. let's be disciplined and get to other news. let's be disciplined.

>> not overreaching. >> exactly. don't overreach. >> we were talking to bill clinton yesterday. and off the set we were talking about parallels between '94 and 2010. '92. he said and we both said he overreached in '92, obama overreached in 2008. republicans overreached two years later. the result usually is the country swings back. they are not ideological. >> couple other things to get to. i want to get to mitt romney's response to eric ericson. first an apparent open microphone exposing a private conversation between president obama and french president nicolas sarkozy. according to journalists nicolas sarkozy shared thoughts about benjamin netanyahu calling him a liar saying he could no longer stand him. president obama replied, you may be sick of him, but, me, i have to deal with him every day.

>> wow. >> the remarks were confirmed by the associated press and reuters whose journalists overheard the conversation. the white house had no comment on it. >> yesterday, abe foxman and other jewish leaders very concerned about the statements. that doesn't help the peace process. what else? >> for the first time in this year's ongoing debate in washington, republicans have signalled willingness to co compromise on new tax. republicans on the debt reduction super committee offered to raise federal tax collections by some $300 billion over the next decade by rewriting various portions of the tax code. democrats rejected the plan saying the offer doesn't get the job done. the rejection of the republican plan is giving more ammunition to republican suggestions that democrats want the super committee to fail. this is what democratic senator chuck schumer predicted on

"morning joe" on monday. >> i don't think the super committee is going to succeed because our republican colleagues have said no net revenues. >> so we have a response now from republican mitch mcconnell. take a listen. >> it's clear when chuck schumer speaks he's speaking for the most partisan democratic position. it does raise your suspicion that the folks at the white house are fupulling for failure. you see, if the joint committee succeeds it steps on the story line they have been peddling which is you can't do anything with the republicans in congress. >> jeffrey sachs, i'm sure after reading your book you won't think $300 billion is enough. it is a first step though. >> it's something. >> republicans are talking about raising net revenue. >> of course. just to let people understand, $300 billion over ten years is $30 billion a year. 1% of our national income is $150 billion. so this is one-fifth of 1%.

the problem with these numbers is that numbers are thrown around, a billion is a lot for us. trying to understand what it means in the context of the budget is what's key. the fact of the matter is revenues are on the table now. they need to be. >> for the first time in a quarter century republicans are talking about raising net revenue. >> here's the revenue, here's the spending. if they would help the american people with charts to show what's at stake, not the numbers which are almost un intelligibl showing this is what needs to be cut, this is what needs to be raised, that would help. >> is there a more productive way republicans could have responded to the fact that taxes are on the table now? >> we're in the negotiating stage here. i wouldn't expect the democrats to say, yay, yippee.

>> no. >> they are negotiating. they need to be careful not to dismiss it so quickly that the republican super committee members go back to the caucus sand say, see, we told you that you couldn't trust them. they kicked you in the face the first day. listen, this is not going to be easy. >> there are two audiences. one is the one you speak of. second, if your a pedestrian watching this and you have watched over the last several months dating back to august when it started during the summer and we saw the downgrading of debt, you have to wonder, well, maybe the democrats should listen more. now, i would agree with sachs, $300 billion is a small number. but it's a start. we have one part of the conversation. say that back to your caucus and say we're making progress. nothing discussed across the nation continues to grow. it's palpable and people want congress to get something done. >> speaking of ideology, the

thing democrats have to be careful for, yes, they can run against republicans as a do-nothing congress. their problem is when they start saying no out of hand to raising $300 billion in taxes -- and you're right, it's over ten years, but say no out of hand instead of harold's approach when they haven't passed a budget in over 900 days because they don't want to be exposed, when republicans will be going on the campaign trail waving jobs bills they passed that the democrats won't vote on in the senate, suddenly that gets turned on its head and the republicans actually need to keep talking about raising revenue, need to keep talking about compromising and if the democrats keep their feet basically locked in concrete it's the democrats that will look bad. >> small as the number may be it is something. it takes a little bit away from the party of no argument the democrats have been making. on the other side we heard a couple weeks ago nancy pelosi

said she would be open if there was revenue raised to looking at entitlements -- social security and medicare. people have budged a little bit. we need to keep pushing. >> i disagree with chuck schumer. he's there, closer, he understands. i'm positive. i think things are moving forward. but if i'm a republican and i have a democrat running against me next year and the democrat said, o we are not willing to move on anything, i say we offered to raise taxes $300 billion. tell me, harold ford, how many more -- like how much more do you want americans to pay? >> particularly since democrats haven't offered entitlements. >> i guarantee you $300 billion may be nothing to you big spending liberal democrat, but to the hard-working people of western tennessee, $300 billion, blah, blah, blah. >> that's the way to play it.

>> do you have any stories about mitt romney? >> mitt romney is responding to the blog post eric erickson who wrote, mitt romney is not the george w. bush of 2012. he is only conservative because a few conservative grand pooh-bahs tell us mitt romney is conservative and for no other reason. that's why romney will not win in 2012. but once he loses republican establishment types will blame conservatives for not doing enough. he is going to be the republican nominee. his general election campaign will be an utter disaster for conservatives as he takes the gop down with him and burns up what it means to be a kentuc conservative? the process. >> that was searing. >> so ericksonundecided. that's an old joke. a guy comes up to truman. says, i think you're a piece of garbage.

turns to his aid and says, mark him down as undecided. how did mitt respond? >> he's taking it in stride telling abc it's all part of the game. >> i understand politics is politics. people look for an edge. people know how i live my life and what i believe on the major issues of the day. i'm here because of the failure of obama to turn around this economy. my conviction that having spent my life in the economy, having actually created jobs is a qualification that's necessary for the country to get america back to work today. i will let the slings and arrows come as they may and continue talking about the failure of the presidency. >> pretty rough sledding the last few days. romney is still ahead in the polls. we haven't shown anything about herman cain. a couple polls suggest the scandals are taking a hit. >> coming up, it started with a tweet. "rolling stone" magazine tells us the inside story of how

occupy wall street grew from a small idea into the sweeping national movement. we'll bring in the magazine's executive editor eric bates. and berlusconi promises to step down, finally. cnbc's melissa francis will have the latest including a look at a u.s. market futures. first, a check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning. today is an historic in day in alaska. one of the strongest storms affecting alaska. it's a rural area. not a lot of devastating picture but this huge of a storm, this intense of a storm is very unusual. nome, alaska, had a lot of high water and winds up to 90 miles per hour. it's a hurricane bringing blizzard conditions. it's 1,500 miles wide, more than halfway across the united states if you brought it into the lower 48. thankfully the storm will slowly weaken. we have a baby storm over

illinois bringing rain and snow. in wisconsin you go from rain to snow today, too. that's your travel trouble spot. down in new orleans, possibly atlanta, a little bit of wet weather. how great is it on the eastern seaboard for the last week? it continues today with highs near 70 degrees in southern new england. remember? it snowed ten days ago. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪

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hargrave custom yachts have our backs. we used to sell yachts as luxury items. in today's world they are really a necessity. because successful people have now become the target. yes. the yacht is a necessity for escape. i, for one, cannot imagine fleeing the collapse of society in a boat without an onboard infinity pool. what am i supposed to do? go all the way down to the water to swim? >> all right. 23 past the hour. joining us now, rolling stone executive editor eric bates. gosh, we talked this morning with mayor bloomberg about occupy wall street and you write about it and look at where it all began and where it's going. where did it begin? >> with an ad and a tweet from a satirical magazine in canada called ad busters that called for people to meet on september 17th on wall street.

they said it was a change in revolutionary tactics. but in august a smaller group of about 60 people didn't like what they saw, thought the people gathering were old left, a lot of -- to them -- outdated traditional organizing techniques and they split off to form the new york general assembly. began to plot their own way of doing this. when the protest started, ad busters called for 20,000 people. 2,000 showed up. but ten or 20 stays overnight the first night and it took off. >> where is it now? we asked the mayor and he said he wasn't sure firefighteit was movement. what is occupy wall street? >> it's certainly a movement. it's gone from new york city to 1,600 protests around the world. virtually every city has one. hard to call it a movement. they don't have a list of cohesive demands. they believe in a much more

bottom-up sort of consensus approach which made it hard for them to cohere around a single set of principles or goals. but it's changed the debate. no question about it. >> can you sum it up? is it about "we are the 99%"? >> i think it's about inequality and they have been able to agree about that. that's what changed the discussion and put the focus on that. that's where it should be really. that's what we are talking about in addition the crimes that took place on wall street over the past decade. you're talking about a widening gap between average americans and the super wealthy basically. >> jeff charlotte writes in the magazine, which the article is called "welcome to the occupation." almost everyone you meet in the park will tell you some variation of one thing. they don't want to go to washington. they don't care what the new york times, bill ha her or kanye west thinks of them. they are doing it for themselves

and they speak for no one but themselves. they are the 99%. so am i. so are you. make your own demands if you want to. it seems when you read it that way a little nebulous in terms of where it's going. >> a little nebulous? we're not going to washington. really, that's what we talk about all the time. they occupy washington or whatever it was called. yesterday it was protesting outside the reagan building for a reagan fund-raiser with a bunch of old people from middle america and they had the white house a couple blocks away. they weren't protesting there, not on capitol hill. >> is there a political angle to it given what joe said? in other words are they more democrat than republican and hesitant to protest outside the gates where president obama lives? is that fair? >> in general they probably see

democrats and republicans as two sides of the same corporate ronnie. these are people that believe incremental reforms respect the way to go. i think a lot of people sympathize with the movement who want to think about how to transform their ideas and energy into legislative reform. that's going to have to be people outside the movement who do that. that's not what the movement is about. this is an up-swelling of pure frustration and outrage at business as usual. >> no goals to translate the outrage to legislation. >> there is a real debate within the leaders and they reject the ideas of leadership in the traditional sense. the protesters who have been there the longest are having a vigorous internal debate about demands. we show scenes of that in the article where they are wondering, what's the best way to go here? if we want demands how do we agree? in a sense they are coming to a governance process of their own within the park, trying to determine how to make decisions about the very key issues. >> what's your gut? what do you think? >> i don't know that they will

emerge with demands. there is a real vigorous element within the movement that doesn't believe in that, doesn't believe that's the way to go. they think -- i do think there is a tremendous effort. all we could talk about was the tea party three months ago. nobody talks about them. it's all occupy wall street, incoming equality. a few people can change a lot. they are fed up. they have made it clear. we're all talking about it now. >> we have an article by tim dickenson who talks about the modern day gop. he characterizes it how? >> we call it the party of the rich. it's really -- >> oh, hold on. >> the past 17 years and it's starting -- >> the f.e.c. records would suggest that is not true. >> what tim is looking at is the way the party turned away from the tax policies of reagan even while holding up reagan as the

great deficit cutter. reagan raised taxes 11 times, would be rejected by the republican party today, couldn't get elected. he's looking at the way the gop has turned every issue over the past 17 years into one of how to aid the rich and super rich. >> the follow up question, if the republicans are dupes for the rich, why do the rich keep contributing to democratic presidents? >> we talk about the way the democrats enable this and some of the key players like chuck schumer and nelson who have been enablers of the policy. >> how so? >> in terms of their votes, supporting tax amnesty for corporations that are sheltering profits offseas. a whole series. they have their places where they step in and vote with the republicans. what's really striking is when you look at the record over time, you look at the way the republicans have given up on any sense of fiscal responsibility

which is a core principle of the party and don't worry about whether it will bust the budget, whether the bush tax cuts or tax amnesty for corporations, how they will pay for them. it's the bottom line. >> on the other side of the ledger, the democrats care about the deficit? >> what's really changed is before reagan you pretty much had a consensus. you fought over spending. once you had somebody who won the fight you paid the bills by raising taxes. taxes were an uninteresting mechanism to pay the bills. that shifted during the reagan administration. norquist, americans for tax reforms and no tax pledge. that shifted debate to the point where you can't talk about paying the bills anymore. the fight shifted from what are we going to spend it on to are we going to have money to spend? >> willy, let's geet get serious. the rolling stones, your

favorite band plot their 50th anniversary. they go back to "some girls." an absolutely extraordinary l.p. from '78, i think it was. "some girls." you've got to put it up there along with "beggar's banquet," "exile." >> i would put it up there. >> the best of the best. >> it came late when they thought the stones might be done. what do we find out from mick and keith in the issue? >> i'm glad we have something to have consensus on. >> "some girls" is amazing. >> and we have the future of the stones which people may want to look at. they are talking about it and mick and keith are going to float ideas and have a conversation about where to go from here. >> i have been going to the last stones concert for 20 years now. 1991. this is it. they're done. 60 years old. >> what does keith call mick? >> he has a female name for

mick. >> brenda, i think. >> yeah, it is. >> "some girls." the story here is keith and mick are working on lost tracks from an extraordinary album from the late '70s. >> this is a master piece. they are doing a lot of stuff that's interesting. >> what's your favorite song off of "some girls". >> "miss you." "some girls" the title track isn't bad. >> "respectable," "shattered." we're talking heroin with the president. that's a great album. look at t.j. isn't he something? >> t.j. had nothing to do with it. >> thanks for being with us. fascinating stories inside the story including one from matt taibbi who said, i learned to chill out and enjoy the protests. >> all right. >> great issue. we didn't even talk about george

clooney. >> he's on the cover. >> and you learn a lot about george's personal life in there. he opened up. >> there you go. >> love it. >> all right. we'll talk to the director and actor coming up from the new indy film that shares the same title -- ♪ >> is that the clash? "janie jones." that's next. . ♪ ♪ ♪ when the things that you need ♪ ♪ come at just the right speed, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ medicine that can't wait legal briefs there by eight, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ ♪ freight for you, box for me box that keeps you healthy, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪

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♪ >> now the c minor. ♪ >> now the d. ♪ ♪ it's never done ♪ >> that's all? >> there are another couple of courses. >> yeah, obviously. >> that was a scene from the movie "janie jones." joining us is the writer/director and one of the stars.

great to see you, gentlemen. where is the neck tattoo? >> yeah. >> you lost it. >> i had it taken off like johnny depp had winona taken off his shoulder. >> you can't fake that music over the course of the movie. you play, don't you? >> do i, yeah. >> we were talking about it. you cut an album for the film. 13 songs. >> twice. >> i play. i hardly play. i was in college bands and high school bands. our most glamorous gigs were frat toga parties and i remember having beer poured over my head as i was trying to find the chords to "magic carpet ride." that was my training. >> this is your story. this comes from your personal experience. >> yeah. i have a daughter i met when she was 11. i was 30. 12 years ago. the first time. so that event was very impactful

in my life and something that was churning and burning inside me and i wanted to turn into a movie at some point with her blessing, of course. >> that's the story in the film. just to set the stage for us. 13-year-old daughter shows up. >> i play a rock musician on a downward spiral. his band isn't as popular as it used to be. he's playing smaller venues across the country. he's seeing his childhood dreams disintegrate around him. it's at that moment that what he thinks is a groupie shows up backstage and says they have a kid together. and abandons her at the show. he then is forced to take her on tour with him and look after her. he's somebody not used to having to look after anyone but himself. >> how close is it to your

story, if you don't mind sharing your story. >> sadly, i'm not a rock and roll star. >> that's a shame. >> but there are plenty of the self-involvement that the central character had. i keep saying that the film business, working the film business is very ego centric, but the music business is more ego centric. i wanted to set it in a world that had that had that as a backdrop. his character and the janie character communicate on a level of music first before they start communicating as father and daughter. it's a way in to their relationship. >> you know, fathers are -- and willy will confirm this. moms immediately seem to bond with kids. with fathers it takes longer. willy, it's a learning process. you learn that you have to be a

little less selfish every day the baby is alive. imagine finding out when your child is 11. that had to be a big shock. >> you can't help but be unselfish at that moment. >> i was on an airplane yesterday with my 1-year-old and 8-year-old. i was wishing i met them when they were 11. >> that's frighteningly honest. i bet a lot of parents feel the same way. >> a lot of parents might say that. >> we have to talk about abigail breslin who plays the 13-year-old girl. >> incredible. >> did you know her before? what was she like? >> my wife is an actress named emily mortimer. she did a move by a abby's brother spencer who is also a child actor. that was ten years ago. i knew her mother and the family. it's funny. when you're doing a movie, you

usually get to know your costar after work. you go have a drink, have dinner together and that kind of thing. of course she was going straight home with her mom as soon as we wrapped each day. so we got to know each other in the scenes really more than we did off the set. >> when you wrote this were you thinking about her? >> it's funny. i was thinking about her. i wrote it for a 13-year-old. at the time she was the best 13-year-old actress from the period. that was the first person i sent it to. >> she's remarkable. she's remarkable in "little miss sunshine." she's grown up a little bit. wow. >> what a story. >> and she can sing. >> yeah. >> so can this guy, by the way. >> yes, he can. >> sings better with a neck tat. >> the movie is "is janie jones" out in theaters. thank you very much. >> thank you, guys. >> thank you.

>> up next, he survived scandals ranging from tax fraud to bunga-bunga party. >> those are scandals now? >> now it may be the european markets that bring down italian prime minister sylio, berlusconi. that's next.

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good one. why, thank you. whether it's saving for retirement, college, or anything else, contact a fidelity investment professional today. let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's melissa francis. she's live at cnbc headquarters. melissa, only one story on the front of all the papers this morning. italy. tell us about what's going on over there. >> markets are focused on everything going on in italy. berlusconi promising yesterday to step down as soon as the austerity budget is in place. we saw a relief rally for a bit in the market. overnight we saw the exact

opposite. the italian market is tanking. we're watching the bond yields go through the roof. this is the cost of italy's government to go out and borrow money and finance everything going on. it's the equivalent of our treasury rate and it's s skyrocketed. they have to pay 7.7% in order to borrow money. >> while germany can borrow at 1.8%. >> exactly. >> talk about the difference between fiscal recklessness and being prudent. a huge difference. so what's that mean to the united states? we have been talking about greece. obviously u.s. banks also invested in italy. is this more trouble for us? >> this is the short term and the long term. this means that the crisis is deepening in europe if they didn't clean things up. in the long term, i know mika picks the best op-ed. i don't know if you saw the one in the wall street journal that said the day of reckoning is happening in europe where they realize they can't pay for the

social welfare state. is this the ghost of christmas future and what we are facing in the u.s. if we don't clean up our balance sheet? everybody is watching closely to see how much spillover there is. even if we saw the crisis in italy, of course, we'd turn to spain and eventually to france. >> exactly. >> there is a bright side in the sense that berlusconi will have time to work on his next album now, i guess. we heard that was going to be delayed. >> and his personal life. more time with his girlfriends. >> he has an active personal life. we have been concerned. he's getting up there in years, working too hard for too long. he needs to relax. isn't it fascinating that the wall street journal editorial is exactly right. the road from rome may lead to paris, madrid. leads to california already albany eventually down to washington, d.c. if we don't straighten up quickly. >> it was easy to ignore the problems when economies were growing. you could continue to pay the

credit card bills so to speak. when economies are shrinking and you can't finance the debt you have to look more closely at how you are going to pay the bill or cut cost. that's the debate in america and around the world. it's the debate for the presidential election without question. >> melissa francis, thank you so much. >> yes. >> see you tomorrow. >> have a great day. >> up next, the best of late night. ♪ [ cellphone rings ] cut! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com.

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herman cain held a press conference this evening to address the sexual harassment charges from numerous women coming out of the woodwork. incidentally i believe his woodwork coming out is one of the things he's accused of. jim? >> sexual harassment is a very serious charge. >> yes, very serious charge. that he took very seriously. last night with my friend jimmy kimmel who asked him about bialek's lawyer, gloria allred. >> have you considered hiring allred as your attorney? >> let me put it to you this way. i can't think of anything that i would hire her to do. okay? i can't think of a thing. >> and that look says he knows how to think of things for women to do. >> the day of the firestorm --

of these accusations, we had the highest fund-raising day online in the history of this campaign and it has not stopped. >> yes. it is not stopping. tonight i am writing a personal check to herman cain right now. all right? here we go. all right will. what is the maximum amount that you are allowed to write to a candidate? $2,500? [ bleep ] that. i am going with $10,000. all right. come for me, coppers, because herman is the man. how bad could the uh new charges be. >> he put his hand on my leg, under my skirt and reached for my genitals. ♪

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ladies and gentlemen, are you excited? now it's time for a brand new segment. this is great moments from the campaign trail. take a look. >> for those who have abandoned hope we'll restore hope and welcome them into a great national crusade to make america

great again. >> let it be our cause to see that child grow up strong and secure, braced by her challenges but never struggling alone. >> where's my quarter pounder with cheese? >> oh, willy. it's like a blast from the past from the bush years. i love it. >> they need to bring that back, the george w. bush moments on letterman. i learned, i guess, that rolling stones, we talked about the album "some girls." i think "let it bleed" is my favorite. and rick scott, don't do this. please don't. d.j. govey-gov turning the tables on a cruise ship. >> i'm going with "exile number 2." mika? >> the conversations this morning were fantastic. i thank you both for avoiding conversations about herman cain and sexual harassment. i will give you one headline because it's so good. >>