accusations. >> oh, the democratic machine. i believe i have seen one of those. it is the democrat machine. i don't know if you knew anything about it, but from what i understand it costs billions of dollars and runs on solar energy and turns hope into disappointment. but what i love -- yeah, [ bleep ] with it. >> the late night comedians get the last word and you can have the last word on the blog and follow my tweets. "the ed show" is up next. good evening, americans and welcome to the "ed show" tonight live from washington, d.c. nbc news is reporting that joe paterno has state ordeal. president spainer and the former head coach are out. i don't think penn state has done enough. rick perry on a media tour trying to salvage his

intelligence. i definitely don't think he's done enough. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> a phone call put me out of it, but we'll go from here. >> the penn state sexual abuse scandal continues to grow. >> if there are more victims out there or witnesses, please come forward. >> former penn state player and hall of famer frank o'harris and defends his coach. tonight he joins me exclusively. >> i would do away with the education, the -- >> commerce. >> commerce. let's see. i can't -- the third one i can't. i'm sorry. oops. >> the perry campaign is on life support, and the candidate is flooding the air waves. >> i stepped in it last night. i stepped it in. i stepped in it last night. that's for sure. >> i'll ask political analyst jim moore if it's time to say

adios to the perry campaign. >> you know what? this pisses me off. >> the victim of joe watch's rude outburst is a letter carrier for the postal service. >> i'm tired of hearing that crap. >> tonight she gets her chance to respond. good to have you with us, tonight. thanks for watching. joe paterno is no longer the head football coach at penn state following more information about the child sexual abuse scandal involving his former assistant coach jerry sandusky. but the game will go on this saturday. last night the board of trustees fired paterno and university president graham spainer effective immediately. today paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney. the story continues. paterno and his wife greeted supporters outside his home momenting after he received a phone call informing him of his termination last night. angry penn state students took to the streets of state college,

pennsylvania. police reported acts of violence and assaults on journalists and law enforcement officers. "the new york times" quotes one student saying of course we're going to riot. what do they expect when they tell us at 10:00 that they fired our football coach. a mob of students overturned a television news van. this video was captured on a cameraphone.

>> not all of joe paterno's supporters resorted to violence. many current and former penn state graduates said the firing was a rush to judgment. franco harris, former player under joe paterno, was outspoken with his disapproval. >> there's a lot of outrage at penn state because of the firing of joe paterno. i'm upset at the penn state board for the firing of joe paterno. >> we will talk with mr. harris in just a few moments. there were other high profile statements of support for joepa attorney notice today. the nike corporation has no plans to change the name of the joe paterno center, but pennsylvania senators pat toomey and bob casey pulled their support for the nomination of the football coach to receive the presidential medal of freedom. attention is now being turned to

assistant football coach mcmcqueary. mcqueary has kept his job, despite allegations that he witnessed a sexual assault by jerry sandusky on an 1 11-year-d boy in 2002 and did not intervene or report it to police. the new sfwer rim penn state football coach tom bradley said today mcqueary will remain part of the coaching staff at this saturday's game. today an unnamed member of the board of trustees told lehigh valley morning call newspaper that mcqueary will be kept off the sideline for his own safety. pennsylvania governor tom corbett spoke about the firings today during a news conference. >> we must keep in mind when it comes to the safety of children, there can be nomar engino margir air ro, no hesitation to act. >> if he felt that paterno and president spainer hesitated to act, he said yes.

>> i was disappointed in their actions. i support the board's decision. their actions caused me to not have confidence in their ability to continue to lead. >> the penn state board was in agreement with the governor, which is why they fired both men last night. but make no mistake. the board was also buying itself some time to get ahead of the story, and it's now time, i think, for the next move. they need to show the country how penn state will make restitution to the victims and everyone this scandal has affected. now, i believe the university needs to make a big statement by canceling the last three football games of the season. you know, people in our society, they get fired all the time. what about the university? if penn state won't cancel the games, school officials need to come out and be honest. they need to say it's more important for them to make money than to rectify terrible ablgts of wrongdoing. the board needs to get back together in another meeting and

make the next call. the football season should be over at penn state. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, should penn state football cancel the rest of its season and decline any bid to a bowl game? text a for yes and text b for no. you can go to our blog and make a comment. we'll bring you the results later in the show. lots of opinions and lots of hard feelings surrounding all of this, and a tremendous amount of sadness. joining me on the phone is now former nfl hall of famer franco harris and former player for joe paterno. he's now the chairman of the pittsburgh promise and education charity. good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time, and i certainly understand your loyalty to coach paterno. >> nice to be on your show. i'm a big fan. >> thank you, sir. do you think that joe paterno should still be the head football coach of penn state? tell us why you think that.

>> not a question. i think the firing was overreaction by the board. i'm very disappointed in the board, and when joe paterno needed to have someone support him and have his back, they let him down. when they did ask the board yesterday the reason for the firing, there was really no definite answer. the only definite answer was for the interest of the university. what is the interest of the university? that couldn't be answered. and i'm very disappointed in the board. i think that joe should still be the coach of penn state, and also i want to say that the way that they fired him. just having someone hand him a letter to call somebody, and not

doing things face-to-face. i think that the board just, like all of their actions yesterday, were very, very disappointing to me. there's no doubt that -- and everybody knows what joe has meant to penn state in his 46 years as head coach. don't need to go over that. there's no doubt he's an icon and people love to knock down an icon. right now there seems to be a frenzy among people that want to do that. and let me tell you the reason why i feel that he shouldn't have been fired. first of all, nothing has been proved. and everybody gets this -- you know, says, well, he didn't do enough. he should have done more. well, when you look at what happened -- i really try to go through the scenario myself. that in 1998 there was

allegations against jerry, and jerry sandusky was a football coach under joe paterno. when that happened in 1998 during the football program, those allegations went all the way to the d.a. examine to the local police. in 2002 jerry sandusky was no longer with the football program and no longer under penn state. when allegations happened again, joe paterno took it to his -- now, this time it was not a football problem. this was a university problem. joe took it to tim curley and schultz. >> you think he did enough? i get that. >> and tim curley and shuts didn't do their job. people say because they didn't do their job, joe should have baby sat them and done the job for them.

joe mentioned that he feels that he could have done more, but i feel he says that because joe's not one to really knock people. the reason why he could have done more is he feels bad they didn't do their job. >> i have to point to you joe paterno was told by his former quarterback that he had witnessed this sexual act in the shower at the facility at penn state. mr. paterno never went to law enforcement. that is what is in question tonight, and one other thing. i'd like to ask you, obviously mcqueary who played quarterback for paterno, they have a special friendship. paterno in the grand jury report stated that mcqueary went to his house the next day and said he was very upset. why didn't paterno -- let me ask you, is it in joe paterno's personality to go confront sandusky with this information? what do you think of that? >> this was a university problem.

joe respected tim curley and schultz. >> okay. then that's -- >> he went to them thinking they would do their job, and they didn't do their job and everybody's now blaming joe. that's what i don't understand. >> franco harris, great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. let's turn to sports comment at a timer and writer john fine steen, author of the upcoming book "one on on one." i find it hard to believe that a former player would go to joe paterno and say, this is what i saw. number one, he passed it on to the a.d. and another administrator and didn't report it to the police. as a journalist, what's the next move? >> i think you're 100% right. ij when mike mcqueary went to joe paterno's house at that day, he should have made two phone calls, one to graham spainer and

the second to the police. having said that, if you want to say it was okay to call tim curley the athletic director and put it in his hands, the fact is he never followed up or went back and said, tim, what's going on? why haven't i heard from the police? you can't go halfway on something like that. i know joe paterno has said, well, mike mcqueary didn't lay out the details to me like he did at the grand jury. how much detail do you need? he saw a 10-year-old boy naked in a shower with a broken man. don't need more detail than that. >> let's talk about this incident that took place of victim number 6. the mother of victim number 6 had a conversation with jerry sandusky, two conversations in may of 1998. on may 13th and 19th. detectives were listening. he admitted to showering with the boys. the follow-up by one of the detective was done on june 1st of '98 a few weeks later.

he was told, jerry, don't shower with the kids anymore. he said, okay, i won't do it. is this the extent of their investigation? when people say he was exonerated or investigated, this was the extent of it? >> right. >> the up appearanappearance is can't take down joe paterno's football program? your thoughts? >> that's the problem at not just penn state but many schools where football is bigger than the school. joe paterno is penn state for positive reasons. not because he won more games than any division i coach. his players did graduate and he cared about them, but he didn't care enough about these children victimized by his former coach who is a close friend of his. >> the grand jury report is graphic and gut-wrenching. another part says the janitors were afraid to come forward and say anything for fear of losing their job. there seems to be an atmosphere

around penn state, hey, not us. can't happen here. >> right. absolute power can corrupt as we know. it's a cliche for a reason. nobody at penn state could take on joe paterno. in 2004 the president of the school went to his house to suggest he retire, and joe paterno threw him out of the house. who's in charge? we know who was in charge. i'm a big fan of joe paterno, by the way. >> who isn't. impeccable program. can't beat it. >> the signature program of what was right about college football when so much has been wrong. to me he and dean and smith the north carolina basketball coach are the two iconic figures of the last 50 years for the right reasons in college athletics. yet, this is going to be in the first sense of his legacy forever. >> where's the next story? where does it take you? >> there are two separate stories here. there's the crime that was

submitted against these young men or these boys who are now in most cases young men. that has to play out in the courts, but i'd like to see -- you suggested penn state maybe canceling their games. >> i think they got to do something here. >> here's what i think they should do. play the game, but take 50% of the money that you make from these games and from the bowl game and turn them over to some group that works with kids who have been abused sexually. >> you see, the university can still gain here. they could win the next three games, they could go to a bowl and make a pile of money and win the bowl game. what about university? where's the hurt there? people get fired all the time in our society. the university, i think, has to make a big statement here. >> i think that would be a positive way to do it. i wish -- a coach suggested today that what joe paterno should have said yesterday, he should have resigned on his own. if he had and the not made the board fire him, there wouldn't have been rioting last night and said i'm giving $1 million to

work towards fighting against this abuse. i'm going to ask every penn state alum to give $1. >> thanks for having us tonight. remember to answer the question at the bottom of your screen and share your thoughts on twitter @edshow. legal ramifications for penn state and it's officials keep filing up. we'll talk to a former district attorney. later, rick perry's epic brain freeze. will it be adios mo-fo after last night's debate? stay with us. we'll be right back. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. ♪

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coming up next, the legal problems facing all involved especially former football coach joe paterno and penn state. on the media tour rick perry is trying to prove he's not the dullest knife in the drawer, but how long can he hang on? congressman joe walsh lost his cool on this american worker. tonight she tells this side of the story on "the ed show." stay with us. the aviators.

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welcome back to "the ed show." there are other aspects not getting much attention. according to the grand jury report back in march 2002 mcmcqueary saw jerry sandusky in the shower of the main football building sodomizing a boy he estimated to 10 years old. this is the main incident we've been hearing about. according to mcqueary's own account he saw the act in progress and did nothing to stop it. he did not intervene or shout, he did not go directly to police. the next day mcqueary told joe paterno. the next day paterno met with school officials curley and schultz. later the same month penn state president graham spainer approved of the minor action taken against jerry sandusky. there is no evidence any of these people tried to identify

the 10-year-old boy. there was apparently no attempt to contact him, get his side of the story, see if he needed medical attention. the graduate assist not mike mcqueary is now an assistant football coach at penn state who was hired in 2003. joining me now is former district attorney of lawrence county, pennsylvania, matthew mangino. good to have you with us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> when the now assistant football coach mcqueary witnessed this, he was 28 years old at the time. in cases of rape or activities such as this, is it legally acceptable to witness and not report it directly to police? >> there's really no legal obligation for just the average citizen to report a crime that they may have witnessed. in this particular situation, because he worked for a university, he had an obligation to report it.

he followed what his obligation would have been, which would have been to report it to his immediate supervisor, who was joe paterno. >> so he would be under no legal obligation whatsoever to report that he witnessed something that was clearly against the law? >> his legal obligation under the mandated reporter law in pennsylvania would have been to report that abuse that he observed in the workplace to his immediate supervisor, which is what he did. that's his legal responsibility, ed. there's a whole different responsibility in terms of moral obligation. certainly should he have intervened? should he have called the police? there's a number of things he could have done. maybe most people would have done that. from purely a legal perspective, he did what he was obligated to do under the law, and joe paterno did what he was obligated to do urntd the law. he reported it within 48 hours to his immediate supervisor, the athletic director. again, that was the legal

obligation. what's his moral responsibility? he knows that a sexual assault, an adult against a child occurred in his locker room as the head football coach. should he have taken other action other than following the mandate of the law? i certainly think that you or i or most people would have done something a little different here. >> how serious is the school's civil liability when an alleged rapist got nothing more than having the keys of the facility taken away from him and campus police saying don't do this anymore. don't shower with the kids? what is the school's civil liability in this? >> i think it's going to be very broad here. there are going to be a number of people that make claim against the university, and rightfully so. the university had an obligation to take some action here to protect young people on their campus. you know, they invite young

people to their campus all the time, whether it's sports camps or band camp or academic exercises. there are young people underage on the campus all the time. they need to know what the obligation is to report and need to take action. it appears they failed to do so in this case. >> matthew, i appreciate your time tonight. thanks for joining us so much. >> thank you. >> more on the penn state sexual abuse scandal in a moment with mike wise and b.j. scheckter. deadbeat congressman joe walsh told a postal worker that he wanted to eliminate her job. melissa will explain why the congressman should lose his government job later on in the show. stay with us. i'm your blind spot.

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it's an opportunity for me, you know, to have been touched by so many great people who have volunteered their time and energy and opportunity to see some special young people overcome some challenges in their life and go on to lead a life of excellence. it's grown to that point now where we've really reaped the rewards of a lot of effort, and it's an opportunity to throw out a rope so some kids. if they grab hold, they can be champions. >> absolutely amazing. that was jerry sandusky in 2007 talking about his charity for kids. he's now charged with 40 criminal counts of sexual abuse of minor. welcome back to "the ed show."

let's bring in wfka radio host mike wise. good to have you with us tonight. mike, what is so stunning? now, most journalists have read the grand jury report. what jumps out at you as absolutely unbelievable in the report? >> well, just that clip you played in the last few days on my show and in my "washington post" column. that turned my stomach almost more than anything, given what i now know about jerry sandusky. i still think the fact that -- it bothers me that a lot of people are hiding behind protocol and right channels for joe paterno, because the bottom line is joepa oversaw happy valley like jon wooden once oversaw westwood. he didn't have a superior. if he was told and didn't report it to police, certainly he had to go down -- the fact it's almost like people were in warped program world, and they

saw penn state and things like senior day more important than stealing youth from somebody these boys. >> b.j., what's that say about our society? that coaches and programs and universities can be so big that people would be intimidated to go to law enforcement? i find it hard to believe that a 28-year-old man would not know that it would be the wrong thing to do to screw a 10-year-old in the shower. i don't know how else to say it. what do you think? >> it's really sickening when you think about it. when you read the grand jury report, you can't help but really get a pit in your stomach. i think what we have to realize here is with great power comes great responsibility. so many people have famed in this instance. we've failed the kids. we failed to protect the people that need the protection the most. joe paterno was in a great position of authority and power. he did so much good over the years for university, but in this instance he failed. everybody involved with this

case failed from the mcmcqueary when he first saw it. from mike mcqueary's father when he didn't have his son go to the police. to joe paterno, to tim curley and the administrator gary schultz. everybody failed here, and that's why the consequences are so severe. >> my commentary tonight is i think penn state has to do something really big. cancel the rest of the season, forget the bowl opportunity, there's got to be restitution and they have to make a statement. firing a couple people doesn't make it right. mike, your thoughts. >> i think you're right. as more comes out and people understand the magnitude of this, this game they're having on saturday on is aa charade. they're wearing blue in support of sexual abuse to children is fine and dandy, but it has nothing to do with what happened here. someone said this well, better than anybody i spoke to. his name was matt pack nas.

former assistant under joe paterno said, look, i love the guy. he needs to step down because once you do this and you're a party to this at all, essentially you lose the right to claim triumph over anything in your life, and you can't say anymore that you touched lives because they all go away if you let one person touch a child. >> here's pennsylvania governor tom corbett talking approximate about the student protestors today. >> you have a passion? great. you want to demonstrate? great. you want to speak out? great. stri lens is a knucklehead. >> b.j., let me say that i think if the students had all the facts and were following this story they wouldn't be out on the streets. what do you think? >> look at the reaction of joe paterno in this case. he was almost like a martyr.

he came out and addressed the students. what should have joe paterno do don in this situation. he should have when in the middle of the town, something tragic has happened here. i can't come to terms with it right now, go home. instead he incited a penn state champ. >> that's what he gets me. he knew and was told by his former quarterback what the defensive coordinator, sandusky who he worked with for years, he knew what he had done in the shower to that kid. here's joe paterno saying wshlg, you know, i lost my job by the handbook. vmt i guess i did everything i could do for the university. i'm surprised that he didn't get it. >> i'm still furious. i don't know about you, b.j. i'm more feuer about anything that they still don't know the name of this 10-year-old kid. at no point was the kid given consideration in this, and when an attorney general has to come out nine years later and say if

you're out there, we're looking for you, that's just sick. >> under the guise of a charity organization that is supposed to help kids. give me a break. b.j., you get the final word. >> i think this is a sad commentary of what college sports have become. they've become so big and the -- we're losing -- what our priorities are. our priorities are education and doolg what's right. when the athletic program and a person like joe paterno is bigger than anything else, in a lot of people's minds wooefl really loss it and need to get it back. >> that is the point of my commentary tonight. penn state and board of truces, you need to step up and show you're bigger than the game and coach that you'll show some restoration that was real failings within the system that go back a number of years to allow something like this to slip through the cracks. great to have you with us tonight. thanks to much.

rick perry's michigan meltdown. is he now texas toast? he's on letterman tonight. jim mother weighs in next. herman cain bragged about not sexually harassing thousands of women. what a guy. >> here's piping hot pizza man psycho talk comes up and going to be served. stay with us. [ male announcer ] in his eyes...a race needs no finish line. ♪ in her eyes... the world is never too big. in his...the weather should never keep you inside.

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[ male announcer ] the toughest job on the planet just got a little easier. with one touch technology and even an air scrubber. the nissan quest. innovation for family. innovation for all. get up to $3,050 total savings on the 2011 nissan quest. ♪ welcome back. rick perry raised $7 million in the first sick weeks. a super pac pledged to spend at additional $55 million on perry's behalf. can all that money buy back this moment? >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone. commerce, education and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. >> there's five. >> five. commerce, education and the --

>> epa? >> there you go, epa. >> seriously, is epa the one you were talking about? >> no, sir, no, sir. we were talking about the agencies of government. the epa needs to be rebuilt. there's no doubt about that. >> you can't name the third one? >> the third agency of government i would do away with the education, the -- >> commerce. >> commerce. let's see. >> oh, my. >> i can't. the third one i can't, sorry. oops. >> oops is right. the epa needs to be rebuilt? i don't think the coke brothkoc want to hear that. perry's moment prompted an apology this morning with perry offered a slew of prepared excuses. >> i stepped in it last night. that's for sure. i don't mind saying clearly that i stepped in it last night.

i think i made an error last night. i stepped in it is what my wife would have said. there's so many agencies of government out there we'd like to forget. as a matter of fact, i'm sure a lot of americans were like me last night. there are some agencies the federal government they would like to forget. there's agencies of government that i would like to forget, and i forgot one last night. >> the walk of shame didn't end there. earlier this evening he went on letterman. here's a portion of the top 10 list that airs tonight. >> number 7. >> i thought the debate was tonight. >> i see. well, there you go. that happens to everybody. it was a mix-up, ladies and gentlemen. sure. number 6? >> listen, you try concentrating with mitt romney smiling at you. that is one handsome dude. >> i know. i know exactly what you're talking about. >> joining me now is msnbc political analyst and author of

the forthcoming book "adios." i'm kind of sensing this is not a bad political recovery. what do you think? he did about as best he could in the last 24 hours. >> well, i've got a beef with you about making me sit through that 53 seconds again. that's painful to listen to, much less watch. you know, they have been responsive, and you know, the people are saying, when is he going to drop out and whether is it over? i think the answer is when you're dealing with a guy that lacks the self-awareness to realize that he doesn't have the capabilities or the intellect to be president of the united states, you can expect him to possess the awareness to say, boy, did i mess up and i'm getting out of in thing. probably he's going to keep spending money. they're going to refocus on iowa and they did a great recovery this morning.

everything about crisis communications is you address the issue very fast. you humanize and make yourself look real and correct your problem. as we say down here, you bury your dead and move your wagons west. he did that fairly effectively. >> he certainly did. you said that you thought he would get the nomination. in fact, i think you said he was going to breeze to it. do you feel feel that way now. what do you think? >> all this guy had to do was to show up and speak in deck laifb sentences. because he's the ideal non-romney candidate, and romney, as we know, is squishy on social values for the right wingers and he has this issue of his religious in the south. all rick perry had to do was show up and be acceptable, and he's managed to blow that. you wouldn't have created a scenario in which this might have happened where he could stumble so many times in

monumental ways. whether he can recover or not, i don't know. he's not going to go away so long people keep giving him money. he's going to keep running, and he has enough money to hang around a while. >> he went on fox earlier today and bragging about 2,000 people visiting his campaign website. 2,000 people. if you've got any name recognition at all, you can get that in 15 minutes. this guy is just totally not prepared for the national staunch. do y stage. do you agree? >> absolutely. there's no reason, frankly, if you ask me he should have been governor, and i don't understand why he thinks he can be president. remember, he's run this government down here athat has been very friendly to business and corporations. >> that matters. >> he has people writing checks and it makes it possible for in. >> fair to say it's not in his personality to step out of the race with $17 million and a big pac committed behind him. he's on letterman tonight. that might mop it up a little

bit and young people who don't pay a heck of attention to debates, they'll they this guy as i understand too bad. jim moore, great to have you with us tonight. coming up, rick perry's amnesia wasn't the only debate that happened last night. the pizza man is up next in the zone. stay with us.

[ thunder rumbles ] what is the sign of a good decision? in the world of personal finance, it's massmutual. find strength and stability in a company that's owned by its policyholders. ask your advisor, or visit massmutual.com. cain's comment about nancy pelosi? well, it's landing him in the "zone." later, congressman joe walsh rails against the postal service at a recent meeting with his constituents. we'll talk to one of his constituents who is a united states postal worker. she has her say on "the ed show." stay with us.

in sigh co-talk tonight.

can a train wreck save herman cain from a lot of public scrutiny today. because when the pizza man is forced to talk about anything besides 9-9-9 the wheels fall off. like when he tried to answer a question about what he would do to replace president obama's health care plan. >> it's already been written. we didn't hear about it in the previous country -- previous congress because princess nancy sent it to committee and it stayed there. it never came out. >> for a guy accused of sexual harassment it's probably not a good idea to make such a condescending remark about the first female speaker of the house. but his campaign reinforced the princess nancy remark by tweeting it. and it got worse for herman cain when he was asked about the allegations against him. >> i value my character and my integrity more than anything else. and for every one person that comes forward with a false accusation there are probably --

there are thousands who would say none of that sort of activity ever came from herman cain. >> all right. so here's the logic. so herman cain wants us to forget about the women who have accused him of sexual harassment because he's managed to control himself around thousands of other women. that's like an accused burglar saying, think about all the homes i didn't invade. he can get away with it because republicans, from rush limbaugh to last night's right-wing debate crowd, are circling the wagons to protect him. but for herman cain to say he's innocent because the number of women accusing him of sexual harassment is smaller than the number of women he's met is deep dish. "psychotalk." congressman joe walsh has been under fire. after a tape surfaced of him screaming at his constituents. but it turns out the most offensive thing he said was not caught on camera. the postal worker who was there tells us the dirty details, next. stay with us. ♪

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to clarify a report we brought you earlier tone, nbc news is citing a source close to the case, he says joe paterno has reached out to a prominent washington criminal defense attorney to represent him in the penn state sexual abuse case. the attorney named jay sedwick solars was reportedly contacted by paterno's advisers on thursday. but solars has not yet met with the former football coach and a formal retainer agreement has not yet been signed. tonight in our survey i asked you, should penn state cancel the rest of the football season and decline any bid to a bowl game? 59% of you said yes. 41% of you said no. coming up, joe walsh loudly defended big banks and bashed the postal service at a recent meet and greet. or should i say meet and scream? melissa rakestraw, the constituent who confronted him about the postal service, joins me next. smal l bu sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities.

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don't blame banks and don't blame the marketplace for the mess we're in right now. i am tired of hearing that crap. there are already mechanisms in place -- no, you know what? this pisses me off! >> illinois congressman joe walsh's recent meet and greet turned into a meet and scream when walsh planted his flag on the side of the banking industry. walsh says he was just hungry. but hunger doesn't excuse a congressman's ignorance when it

comes to the united states postal service. one of walsh's constituents, postal worker melissa rakestraw, called him out on it. >> if the postal service can't compete in the marketplace, i am tired of propping it up. i'm tired of -- >> the government hasn't propped it up at all. >> you know what? >> the government is what's dragging it down with this ridiculous pre -- >> i'll take every little restriction government puts on you, i'll get rid of it tomorrow. go out there and compete. why wouldn't you like that? why? >> as i said before, there's -- >> go compete. >> there's a universal delivery -- >> no, no, no, no. don't talk -- >> that has to be provided, a service that has to be provided to people across our country to help stimulate economies in rural areas. independent business people. okay? ups and fedex is not servicing these people. >> melissa is right on the money.

but congressman walsh refused to listen to her. later in an interview walsh revealed that he doesn't care about the postal service. >> when we talk about creating jobs in this country, sarah, we're not talking about government jobs. we're talking about private sector jobs. that's the point i was trying to get across. >> oh, there you have it. we saw it in wisconsin. we saw it in ohio. and now we're seeing it on the national level. the republican party thinks public employees are disposable and not worth anything. joining me now is melissa rakestraw, a letter carrier for the united states postal service and the woman you just saw on the videotape challenging the congressman. melissa, great to have you with us tonight. when i first saw this videotape, i thought, dude, settle down. you're talking to the people that maybe put you in office. what was your reaction when he went off like that? >> well, thanks, ed. my reaction was one of shock. i was just really surprised that he was so hyperbolic when the conversation had been very calm and no one was yelling at him.

so i was a little taken aback that he had to get so aggressive and obnoxious with his constituents. >> were you a little intimidated there? >> no. actually, i wasn't. you know, the only thing that scares me about joe walsh is his anti-worker ideologies and his total disregard for facts. >> well, when you talked to him about universal delivery and his response was baffling to me. he doesn't understand the post office. the post office goes places where the private sector doesn't go. is that what you were trying to tell him? >> that's absolutely correct, ed. the post office, first of all, was established by the constitution. i know joe claims to be a big fan of the constitution. and because of our charter, we are obligated to serve all the

citizens of the united states. and fedex and ups don't do this. 25% of their deliveries are finished by the postal service. and we also offer much cheaper and more competitive rates than fedex and ups. there's a lot of people that get prescriptions through the mail, elderly people. they can't afford to have these rates go up. >> i understand walsh was very blunt with you about public sector jobs once the cameras stopped rolling. can you tell us about that interaction? >> that's absolutely correct. at the end of the discussion he came up to me and he was face to face. the camera was either off or it couldn't pick up the volume because he was speaking very low. just so that i could hear it. and earlier i had told him if he supports darrell issa's bill to reform the post office that 200,000 jobs could be lost. 20% of those employees are veterans.