we ask you at the top of the show what you are doing up this hour. john tower has an answer. >> this is on from jay roman. when he came >> we appreciate the lead-in she gives us every morning. >> i'm back in the audio room with q because i got an e-mail from someone you may know, ms. gayle king. she says the music guy, who is he? he just played "you belong to the city." he is always as the kids of today say on point. the word of gayle king. q, yes, on point. tweet him your requests, he'll play them. "morning joe" starts right now. rick perry excuses at number ten. . >> actually there were three reasons i messed up last night.

one was the nerves and two was the headache and three -- um -- oops. >> that's all right. don't worry about it. you're fine. >> i don't know what you're talking about. i think things went well. hey, i was up late last night watching "dancing with the stars." >> oh, i see. that explains it. >> i thought the debate was tonight. >> i see. that happens to everybody. it was a mix-up, ladies and gentlemen. >> hey, listen, you try concentrating with mitt romney smiling at you, that is one handsome dude. el nino? >> thank you. >> i had a five-hour energy drink six hours before the debate. >> oh, no. >> i really hope to get on my favorite talk show, but instead i ended up here. >> hey, wait a minute. i'm right here. i heard that. >> i wanted to help take the heat off my buddy herman cain. >> and the number one rick perry

excuse -- >> i just learned justin bieber is my father. >> that'll mess anybody up. >> i have to say, it was funny. >> fantastic. >> it was funny. good morning, everybody. it's friday. november 11th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset to cap off this week, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle and donny deutche. >> he was great. it's not going to make a difference. but that was the right move. you walk right into it and make fun of yourself. it ain't going to change it's over for perry, though. >> sis it going to change anything? >> it might move the meter a little for him, but i don't think it changes anything in the long run in politics, but it might give him a whole new career. the guy was terrific.

>> he's handled this well since the moment it happened. he personally went into the spin room -- what else is he going to do? it's a monumental screw-up. he's done the best he can. >> handled it very well and i go back to 1988, bill clinton gave the nominating speech for michael dukakis. you remember it, it was a disaster. the democratic national committee started booing bill clinton. their own up and rising star -- booed him. he was -- bill clinton was the joke of that convention. and what did he do the nex -- i tired of hearing about he doesn't do well in debates, that's when you have to think on

your feet and respond and demonstrate your mental ability. >> barack obama didn't do well in debates. you voted for him. >> i'm going to say it one more time. there's a difference between not doing well and being ignorant. >> you're saying that perry's ignorant? >> he seems to be to me in a lot of ways. >> that's harsh. >> am i missing something? are you watching what i've been watching? >> there are a lot of people -- and mike barnicle will tell you this, i will tell you this, george w. bush, a very bright guy. you meet george w. bush one-on-one, he's bright, he's engaging, is that not right, mike? were you not blown away how bright and engaging the guy was when you met him? >> i know a very good friend of mine, lifelong democrat went to a meeting with george w. bush within the past month down in texas. came back and was stunned at his reaction. >> everybody says the same thing. >> stunned that, you know, he

was the most personable people he's ever met, likable, terrific time wh him. >> and likable. and yet -- and yet you put a camera on him, and the guy freezes -- >> not all the time. >> no, he was stiff and awkward a lot. everybody, you know, everybody on the left was calling him an idiot and saying that he was too dumb to be president. of course they said the same thing about eisenhower. that's what you say about republicans, i guess. but some people are just not good when the camera light's on. >> by the way, then you're not good for that job, it's a huge part of that job. >> that's fine. but to say he's -- to say he's ill-equipped as i said about barack obama in '08. he's ill-equipped to be president at this point, maybe rick perry's ill-equipped to be president, but maybe he'll grow into it. >> all i know of him is what i have seen on the tube. he doesn't seem incredibly, incredibly bright to me, i'm sorry. he might be a very, very nice man. more importantly, joe, i'm sorry, mika. >> oh, my gosh.

instead of rubbing the box, you want to open it up and tell us what we have here. >> who is the brand -- >> i think that's christian louboton. >> let me just tell you something. that sort of behavior would've got you in trouble had you been running the restaurant association. >> and calling her princess. >> and calling her princess. >> look at that. i'm not going to lie. look at that. >> all is forgiven, donny. >> this show is starting off on a bad foot. >> wow. can you even do news now? >> uh, yeah, i can. >> joe, you and i don't have shoes that come in red velvet bags like that. >> how do you walk in those. >> very easily. donny -- it's very sweet. i'll think about it. >> can i keep the bag? >> wow, that's something.

>> all right, donny. >> i had to shift gears somehow. it was going bad for me. >> it's like you come home and it's going bad with the wife and you know at one point to pull out the artillery. >> well, so from that to -- and of course, the reason donny's doing that is veterans day. a lot to be grateful for. right? >> what? >> a lot to be grateful for, especially for veterans currently serving, their families. you take it away, joe. >> no, talking about veterans day. >> willie, you had a stat you were reading in "way too early" that the number of veterans in congress is 22%? >> 22%. >> 22%, and the only thing that people were able to get done was done yesterday bipartisan effort, legislation on behalf of veterans. and still in this country when you go around with less than 1% of people in this country

serving in the wars that have gone on for ten years, i think it's appropriate that all of us take at least ten seconds today, just ten seconds to think of the service that has rendered on our behalf. >> i argue you should do more than think about it. our country needs to stop and consider all of these guys coming home, who have come home over the last ten years who will be coming home at the end of the year from iraq and think about how we use them in our society. and not to do them favors, but to use them for the skills they have, which are many, which are qualities of leadership. you know, we're talking to guys at ia -- >> you told me in the newsroom. >> they told me about going into a job interview with a resume and this hr person who will not be named said this is nice, but have you ever had a real job? and these guys have to, you know, it's all they can do not to laugh in their face. let's see, i led guys up a hill, i took a town, i built a school, we built a water treatment

facility, set up an economy -- we set up an economy in that town and we moved on to another. my point is, employers need to learn how to recognize the value of these guys and not because you wear a flag pin lapel and you're doing something nice for somebody. use these guys, they have talents a lot of us don't. >> joe, you were talking about it yesterday and last night i was talking to someone, 22 years old, at the age of 20 two years ago he was running the squad of 12 marines, going village-to-village in afghanistan, risking their lives each and every day. at the same time, as you just indicated, building an irrigation canal for a town that never had a well water pump. and they come back, reentry into this life. i mean, there were corporations out there. these people are much more valuable in a larger leadership sense than any mba graduate you're going to find coming out of harvard, there's no comparison. >> if you look at the military

and being in a corporation, obviously being in the military life and death a whole different issue, but so many structural -- you say the words 19 and 20. stop and look at a friend, son, daughter, what that looks like, and you forget. >> yeah. >> kids. god bless you. and just in time for veterans day, the senate yesterday voted overwhelmingly in favor of a bill that would give tax credits to businesses hiring unemployed or disabled veterans. the bill passed by a 94-1 margin. with the lone holdout being jim demint who said the government shouldn't privilege one american over another when it comes to work. >> what? >> you know what -- the bill now heads back to the house which is expected to approve it and sends it to president obama for signature next week. and again, it really at this point, at the rate we're going in this country, every day in light of what willie said should be veterans day. >> you know, yesterday, i got home and took calls all day.

>> there was a lot to report on this. >> and you know, joey, big sports fan said he couldn't watch espn all day yesterday. and think about all the fans like that. you know, when i was driving home, that's all they're talking about on the radio. this is one of the ugliest, ugliest things. and there's now even the possibility of foul play, willie, with the last d.a. who disappeared five years ago. >> we're going to talk about this with a guest later. right now there's parallel stories. a d.a. looking into jerry sandusky five years ago literally vanished from the face of the earth, they haven't found him. >> and his computer thrown. >> found in a river with a hard drive removed. >> stripped out. >> here's what we do know. the investigation into former penn state assistant football coach jerry sandusky is now expanding beyond the state of pennsylvania. texas authorities are looking into the team's 1999 trip to san

antonio for the alamo bowl. according to the 23-page grand jury report which outlines sandusky's alleged sexual assault of eight boys over the span of 15 years, the coach took one of his victims to the bowl game and threatened to send him home when the boy resisted his sexual advances. in state college pennsylvania, governor tom corbit spoke also calling on penn state students to stop the violence reminding them that the country is watching their actions. >> your actions speak much louder than your words. and will carry with you for a very long period of time. i believe in your right to assemble and your right to express your opinions. i do not believe, nor do i think anybody believes in your right to violence. you have a passion, great.

you want to demonstrate, great. you want to speak out, great. violence is a knucklehead. >> there's no doubt. and we had a good friend who has been on the show before, his kids are at penn state. >> yeah. >> they love -- >> they love penn state, going there for years. and, you know, actually my family went out with them to a penn state game. a penn state alabama game early in the year. and they were so proud of that college. and i was so proud to be up there. and i said it at the time, they are great people up there. this is just -- this is so devastating -- matt milan? the guy who is on the lions? he broke down crying yesterday on espn. asked are you ashamed of your university? he didn't say he was, but he spoke quietly. this is such a tragedy for the

kids, also such a tragedy for people that invested their families' lives at penn state only to be let down horribly by these terrible, terrible men. >> i love these kids that are demonstrating, angry they fire paterno. i wonder how they would feel if it was their little brother. to not -- for these college students to be acting -- obviously it's not all of them. >> hey, by the way, donny, i bet that doesn't go on. i bet you parents picked up the phone and said, hey, jackass, if i see you protesting in support of a guy that allowed the raping of little boys, i'm coming up and i'm picking you up and you're coming home. you can demonstrate outside of your house, you know, in between your jobs at shack shake. >> according to nbc news, joe paterno has reached out to a high-profile washington defense lawyer to represent him as the investigations continue.

on saturday -- >> by the way, he should. this is a criminal conspiracy. and joe paterno is part of a criminal conspiracy. >> on saturday, penn state plays at home against nebraska and university officials now say assistant coach mike mcqueary who reported to paterno according to the grand jury report will not be on the sidelines due to "multiple threats against the coach." >> willie geist, this man should be kicked off of the penn state squad. he shouldn't be within 100 miles of state college, and i'm kind of surprised they still have a blind spot on a guy that saw a 10-year-old boy being raped in the shower and then ran home and called daddy. >> i'm surprised he's still there. i'm surprised they're saying he's not there only because of threats made against him and not because of what is alleged in the indictment. "usa today" has a front page

story about victim number one who is outlined in the grand jury report. and the point of the story was, it took this kid who was something like 11 years old to start this investigation. in other words, none of adults who knew about this told anybody. it was the kid who finally after four years of allegedly being sexually assaulted by jerry sandusky went to police and started this investigation without one of the victims going to the cops, we may still not know about this. >> there is -- there is no forgiving this guy. who may have been a wonderful young man his entire life. there's no forgiving the failing of himself, but his family, everybody who knew about this. because we hear that he ran and told his dad that a 10-year-old boy had been sodomized. what does that mean? that means the dad is driving around state college, pennsylvania, knowing jerry sandusky is raping little boys and he's not calling police. that means, mike, these people go out and watch penn state every saturday. that means when he sees -- i'm

talking the dad, i'm talking the son, i'm talking everybody that knew. they see jerry sandusky standing on the sidelines with little boys that they know are being raped and yet they say nothing because they're afraid that their son may not get the big job or they're afraid they may be shunned by the penn state community. they are just as guilty as anybody. >> well, i mean -- there was a conspiracy of silence. for years and years, the first incident that we know of according to the grand jury reports and the investigations that we know about thus far, the first incident occurs in 1998. >> by the way, mike, what are the chances this is the first time this pervert did this? >> nil. >> he probably started doing this in the 1960s. the 1970s. i bet he did it for decades. you don't just start that one day when you're 60. >> you just used the word rape. it drove me crazy the first two days of coverage of this when

people would refer to -- they saw something inappropriate or groping. not inappropriate, it's rape. that's what it is. rape. >> and -- >> rape of a child. >> and let me just say i avoided saying this yesterday because it's in the grand jury report and it drove me crazy listening to the coverage. let's make no mistake. they weren't horsing around or playing with each other. the 60-year-old man and forgive me this is a little harsh. the 60-year-old man sodomized a 10-year-old boy in the shower. >> in the shower. >> in the penn state shower. >> that's not horsing around, that's not inappropriate, that is rape. >> hopefully what will come out of this. and you can't even put the word tragedy against this. the stronger they go after the people that kept it silent, the more we're going to send the signal across the country to people who are one or two steps removed from this saying if they can't do it out out of their own moral conscience, they'll start

to come forward. >> here's i'm looking at the article you cited, willie. this boy's mother went to the school. the school reminded her of sandusky's solid reputation in the community. and told her psychologist, the school official advised her to think about the situation for a few days before taking any action, that she thought about -- she was worried about this for months and tried to get help for her son because her son was acting strangely, especially in reaction to any contact with sandusky. which turned into outings and sleepovers and time with him alone. >> there is at the center of this story, there is -- >> something really sick. >> there is a very -- i don't know what you would call it, but a dark, dark force. think about it. >> that's in the -- >> think about it. everybody in the university. >> power structure. >> fears this information getting out, the lady fears this

information getting out, the d.a. in '98 fears bringing charges when a rape is committed, he ends up dead. i'm not overblowing this, he ends up dead five years later. this 28-year-old kid doesn't come out and say i saw a young boy being sodomized in the shower, he remains silent. his father learns of it, he remains silent. the athletic director knows of it, he remains silent. the president of the university knows of it, he remains silent. this doesn't just happen. there's not that much of a systemic breakdown, a systemic failure -- don't tell me that all of these people are just were born corrupt. there's a fear up there. and i don't know what of. >> i'm going to tell you, there's a universal pattern, though, to crimes like this when they occur at institutions like this. i can remember years ago, 25 years ago, being told about and eventually writing about a child

rape case at a very prestigious private school outside of boston involving a teacher and a student. and the institution trying to protect itself took on a larger importance than the actual crime that had been committed. the catholic church and priests, protecting the institution for decades for years in the light of the crimes that were revealed became more important than taking care of the victims. it's the same in this case in the beginning. it became more important to protect the institution, to protect penn state, to protect the football program than to take care of the victims. there's a universal pattern to these things that is mind-boggling when you think of it, but it's been going on for decades. >> and specifically in college athletics. joe, you and i know as s.e.c. guys, there's a perversion of power, and i love college sports more than anybody on earth,

where the football coach or the basketball coach is bigger than the school whether it comes to looking the other way on a speeding ticket or now all the way up to child rape. there's something wrong with the perspective of college sports where joe paterno or i won't even name other names because i don't want to put them in the same category in this story -- big-name coaches are above the law. >> joe paterno -- you can name them. >> bob knight would get away with murder at indiana. >> by the way, bob knight could get away with murder. i'm glad you brought up bob knight. could you imagine -- let's just imagine for one second if bob knight walked into a locker room and his assistant coach was raping a 10-year-old boy. what do you put the odds -- what do you put the odds that that coach would get out of the shower alive? because i'd put it at about maybe 3%.

if bobby knight went for the final punch, maybe he would slip and fall and let the guy escape. >> what are the odds if that situation occurred with bob knight as coach that bob knight would be arrested for manslaughter, very high. >> very high because he'd kill him. >> and i'm not comparing bob knight to joe paterno -- >> we understand. >> where these college coaches are worshipped and given free reign. >> that's why this is the biggest story to affect college s sports ever. >> there are many more dimensions to this story and we'll be looking at it. we'll also be talking politics. coming up, david axelrod will be here onset. also general ray odierno. up next, politico's top stories of the morning. plus, find out which of these stories make the cut in willie's weekend review. but first -- thank you, donny. >> donny, thank you. >> thank you. >> i'm going to wear them too. the shoes, they're beautiful.

>> okay. bill karins with the check on the weekend forecast. >> got a nice cat walk up here, joe can do a walk down the cat walk. good morning, everyone. and a special good morning to all of the vets out there. thank you to you. as far as the forecast goes, nice and quiet weather out there. no issues whatsoever. we have snow showers coming off lake erie and areas of pennsylvania and upstate new york. it's a windy morning and it's very chilly in the east after that cold front went through. and windchills cold around the middle of the country too. forecast today for this veterans day, no problems, but it is brisk and cool. and through the middle of the country, the warmup will begin. trouble of travel weather mostly on the west coast, rain today around san francisco, tonight in l.a., and tomorrow in l.a. also. you're watching "morning joe" on this veterans day. sunrise brewed by starbucks. ♪

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pretty shot of capitol hill as the sun comes up over washington. time now at 27 past the hour to take a look at the morning papers. the "wall street journal" says the obama administration has quietly drawn up plans to provide a key ally, the united arab emirates with thousands of advance bunker buster bombs as part of a stepped up u.s. effort to build a coalition to counter iran. and in the washington post, venezuelan president hugo chavez has launched an investigation to find washington nationals' catcher wilson ramos. he was abducted by gunman from his home on wednesday. and there's no indication that the kidnappers have contacted ramos' family. the houston chronicle said that texas officials from the department of motor vehicles unanimously rejected a proposal to offer specialty license plates featuring the confederate

flag. the nine board members were appointees of governor rick perry who said he opposed the idea. and from the "l.a. times," a basketball court is temporarily sitting on the flight deck of the uss carl vincent. today the university of north carolina plays michigan state in the first ever college basketball game on an aircraft carrier. >> all right. i'm liking it. >> is this preseason? >> yeah. >> no, this is an actual game, a veterans day game. >> that's cool. >> so college basketball starts? >> well, yeah, next -- >> it's already -- >> yeah, it starts this week. >> this week? >> that's the first game. >> that's a look at the headlines. now time for "politico." >> the editor in chief there john harris. good morning. >> hello, willie. >> this is great stuff. the nixon tapes. the presidential library releasing a 45-minute recording in which president nixon gave his firsthand account of a may 9th visit to the war memorial in

1970 where he actually confronted some vietnam war protesters. let's listen to it. >> my goals in vietnam were the same as theirs, to stop the killing and the war. to bring peace. one spoke up and said i hope you realize that we're willing to die for what we believe in. i said, i certainly realize and said candidly and honestly that i didn't have the answer. that i knew that young people today were searching as i was searching 40 years ago. >> so, john, what do we learn about these tapes that have all come out? >> well, you know, willie, we are so tired of the bitterness and the anger and the conspiracy theorys that sort of blame the messenger politics today. it is nice to go back to a more innocent time like the nixon administration where everybody just -- where politics were clean. the tapes were fascinating for

the same reason nixon is endlessly fascinating. every year or so, there's a new troves of things that comes out. in this instance, it was released by a decision that eric holder made that some grand jury material is so historically significant it should be released. so we get another great picture of nixon's mind. this is in 1975, he's giving grand jury testimony. he's defending his own record, trying to turn the subject away from watergate to foreign affairs. he's blaming the press, he's blaming squishy, weak-kneed bureaucrats in the state department for his troubles. it's full nixon anger, paranoia. >> are these made available to the public? >> you know what? i'm not sure -- they must be on a website somewhere. >> federal archives -- >> the national archives must have them.

our staff has a great story on it. and i'm pretty sure he links to the audio. >> can you imagine nixon in today's media world? >> can you only fathom that? >> what are you saying? >> what's your problem with me today. >> i'm just asking. >> i don't think he would've ever gotten elected president. the scrutiny in the 24/7 notion and his repelletness of the media -- >> he would find today's politics very familiar, i think. >> you look at the way he got elected to the senate in what? '46, '48? >> '46 to the house, '50 to the senate. >> the sweat on the brow, can you imagine if he's facing a camera every day. >> i've got a question for you -- >> yeah. >> which man, and you're going to know the answer. which man received more votes than any other man in american history? >> richard nixon. >> no doubt about it. there's not a close second.

nixon would've figured it out. >> i disagree. >> shall we leave it at that, boys? >> no. it's usually her. >> all republicans are dumb, is that what you're saying, donny? and evil and sweaty. >> by the way, i have heard nothing but -- >> i greatly appreciate it. when we come back, more from the fallout at penn state. why questions on the scandal may be wrapped up in an unsolved 2005 disappearance. we'll be right back. looking good! you lost some weight. you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. to bring you a low-priced medicare prescription drug plan. ♪ with the lowest national plan premium...

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now "new york times" reporter with a recent piece on questions on sandusky wrapped in a 2005 mystery. ken, thanks for being with us this morning. lay this out for us in detail. i think it's important we get the specifics of it. again, we don't know it's linked, but it certainly is suspicious. what's the story here? >> so in 1998, there was one victim who stepped forward, had an interaction with sandusky on campus, went home, his mom reported it to the university police, the university police looked into it. they went to the city police, they did a -- the district attorney allowed the university

police and the town police to actually eavesdrop on a conversation between sandusky and the mom of the victim. and then the evidence got before the district attorney and he said there was not enough to go forward with it. and so a year and four months later -- >> was that conversation the conversation where sandusky apologized and said how can you ever forgive me for what i did? >> yeah. >> i know you'll hate me the rest of my life. and that was insufficient evidence? >> that was insufficient evidence. >> boy, they have an awfully high bar there. so fast forward to 2005 -- >> right. >> we obviously have alleged rapes in '02, '03. go to 2005, suddenly this d.a. who had been investigating it disappears. >> disappears. >> describe the situation around the disappearance. >> in april 2005, he's already announced he's going to retire at the end of his term, he's 59 years old, a very straight arrow guy, basically says -- calls in, says i'm taking a day off, it's

friday, goes driving 50 miles outside of where he lives near state college. last thing they know they find his car with the cell phone in it, the laptop, wallet, and keys gone. this is a day after he supposedly was spotted in this little shopping mall outside of the small town. and since then we've never heard from him since. >> and his laptop is found -- >> his laptop was found a couple months later in the susquehanna river without the hard drive. a couple of months later the hard drive's found. they try and trace the data in it and it's too wet and destroyed to find anything on it. >> so what are the working theorys here? i've read in your piece, he didn't have known enemies, there wasn't a case he prosecuted where somebody might try to come back for some kind of vengeance. what are the theorys? >> well, people that we know of -- because i mean, this d.a. even in a smaller town or smallerprosecuted thousands of cases. in theory, any number of people could've stepped forward. there's no evidence to suggest

anything related to the sandusky case had anything to do, at least in the court records i read. but there are many, many theorys about whether the web was so tight that he could've been pulled into it. but people who knew him very well said he was never one to be influenced by it, he wasn't from pennsylvania, he wasn't a penn state supporter in any one way. he wouldn't have gone out of his way to protect sandusky if he had evidence. >> this occurred in 1998 and the victim's mother comes forward. it's a small environment we're talking about. and you know better than anyone, word of things like this gets out in small environments. do we know whether anyone on the board of sandusky's group, helping underprivileged children group he had, did they know? does anybody know whether the board knew? >> the board of second mile? or the board of the university?

>> the board of second mile. >> it's possible. i certainly heard that rumors were abound for many, many years about this. but at what level, i don't know. i mean, he was a pretty powerful man and he was the face of that charity, obviously part of the face of that football team too. it would have been hard to just call him out on it without sufficient evidence. but i suspect there are more people who knew about it, yes. >> talk about the culture in state college. talk about the culture that would propagate this conspiracy of silence over 13 years where you have a guy who -- an assistant claims, saw him raping a 10-year-old and yet for the section seven years, this man was standing on the sidelines of penn state with other young boys. >> yeah, it's a sad indictment of people's willingness to suspend judgment. you get to know joe paterno or his assistant sandusky and they are gods to the players, certainly as the students as we're finding out in the reaction to it all.

and people don't want to know. people don't want to question. >> really? people don't want to know? >> it's unbelievable. >> can you give us quickly a rough idea of how much joe paterno has meant to penn state? that football program has meant to penn state in dollar terms? >> tens of millions of dollars a year. it's one of the largest football programs in the country. it's the top ten moneymaker in terms of football programs. $50 million to $100 million a year in endorsements, tv, ticket sales, boosters, it's a huge university obviously. >> ken belson of the "new york times," thanks for being here. we'll be right back with mika's must-read opinion pages. [ male announcer ] what if we told you that cadillac

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tdd# 1-800-345-2550 or come in and pull up a chair. time now for the must-read opinion pages at 45 past the hour. we'll go to the "washington post." a split decision. contrary to the condescending conventional wisdom, the american electorate is no angry

herd prepared to stampede on the command of today's most demagoguic populist. mississippi provided an exemplary case of popular sophistication, it defeated the state constitutional amendment that personhood occurs at fertilization. this rejection was carried out by an electorate decidedly pro-life. this is no easily-led citizenry. on the contrary, it is thoughtful and discriminating. for republicans, this means there is no coasting to victory. 9% unemployment or not, they need substance. they need an articulate candidate with an agenda -- >> yes. >> -- and command -- >> preach it. >> who is light on slow dpagans lighter still on baggage. >> who is that? >> charles krauthammer is dead on, and this sort of talk has offended in the past right-wing

bloggers. erick erickson, by the way, red state, is saying the same thing. he's saying we've got to win, we've got to grow up. but charles krauthammer who is one of the most powerful voices on the right. it's great hearing him say that. >> yeah. >> that eliminates almost all the candidates. basically that leaves you two. that leaves you romney and huntsman. and that's the reality. >> who are grown-ups. >> who are grown-ups, who have a long track record, who can win who don't go around calling people nazis or fascists. again -- >> red state. >> the thing is, this is about what krauthammer understands and what erick erickson at red state understands is that at the end of the game, it's not about feeling good how conservative you are, and by defining yourself as conservative by calling the president of the united states a fascist or a marxist or racist, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. at the end of the day, it's about finding the most electable conservative.

so -- so you get it as conservative as you can get it, and you look at all the candidates and you look at that candidate and then say, okay, is he or she electable? >> exactly. >> and you put your support behind them. >> we have a good -- >> this is a problem in delaware. if they had selected mike castle, a moderate, they would have owned that seat and republicans would've had the vote 90% of the time. but they went with o'donnell and they lost. >> democrats used to have the mcgoverns of the world and dukak dukakis. >> can you imagine how vilified he'd be today? >> i'm reading right now "miles gone by," but bill buckley, you go back and read his work over 50 years, he started this movement. he would go like that to most of these idiots that have no idea

what it really means to be conservative. anyway, go ahead. do you want to hear what erick erickson has to say in light of the piece? he wrote a pen to letter to the former godfather pizza ceo herman cain. dear herman cain, you said you'd surround yourself with the best people and you've surrounded yourself with class a failures. the problems you're facing are pr problems of campaign staffing. i still believe you can win, but to do so you must fire your staff and start over. it's the only way forward for you. this communication strategy has been an unmitigated disaster. and if this story doesn't kill your campaign, the one about mark block initially running your campaign through a 501-c3 certainly will. >> can i say something about herman cain? >> i'd rather say something about erick erickson and i mean this. there have been children running around on the far right in the blogosphere and talk radio

screaming, just screaming because it makes them feel good. it's great as a conservative not as a republican, as a conservative to hear fellow conservatives like erick erickson and charles krauthammer tell it like it is. these are men who understand we're not going to just beat barack obama. we're going to have to work to do it. and it sounds like they're stepping out and telling everybody else. >> i'll save my herman cain comment for after the break. >> it probably was going to be demeaning. >> no, it was going to be very insightful. >> what is with you today? >> look at the shoes. >> you didn't get me shoes, okay. i'm jealous. l to our economy-- delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service

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okay. you know what? we -- >> yes, ma'am. it's time for the special edition. >> we need it. >> lighten it up. >> we need to cleanse the palate. >> here's an idea. start the weekend review with the united states congressman chewing out constituents. >> awesome. >> quiet for a minute. quiet for a minute! i'm going to ask you to leave. >> at number three, pizza party. >> i agree with you about that! that's not the problem! >> first term congressman joe walsh, republican of illinois got together this week with some constituents at a pizzeria for a little chat and chew. >> joe, it's -- >> i need more coffee!

>> surely there's a good explanation for the over-heated response for the concerned voters. >> i made the mistake of doing this on an empty stomach with a little too much coffee which sort of got me a little too fired up. >> if i could make one last point. >> quiet for a minute, quiet for a minute! or i'm going to ask you to leave. >> at number two, whatever this is. ♪ la la la >> you're either tripping right now on some really bad stuff or you're watching smiling older folks dressed in golf shirts and dockers emerged from a giant doll house to perform a choreographed dance to lady gaga's bad romance on chinese television. ♪ >> here is gaga's slightly darker version.

take this super creative artistic weird lady, you didn't think of a doll house full of dancing chinese people. and the number one story of the week. >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone. commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. >> whoops. >> i would do away with education, the -- commerce. and let's see -- i can't. the third one, i can't. sorry. oops. >> the week in the 2012 presidential race was consumed by allegations against herman cain. >> admit what you did. admit you were inappropriate to people. >> and by his response to them. >> i don't even know who this lady is. >> the democrat machine in america has brought forth a troubled woman to make false accusations. >> i'm not an expert on how the brain works.

>> but cain's brain was not the one in question at the michigan debate on wednesday night. >> okay. so commerce, education, and t the -- >> i'm glad i had my boots on tonight because i sure stepped in it out there. >> say, congressman joe walsh of illinois. any advice for governor perry? >> quiet for a minute, quiet for a minute, quiet for a minute! or i'm going to ask you to leave. >> i'm going to ask you to leave pizzer pizzeria, but i will. >> excellent, willie. >> yeah. >> he's going to be great with the swing voters in '12. >> i wonder what he'll be doing after congress. >> i don't know. maybe working at the pizzeria. >> no, they kicked him out. coming up, david axelrod joins us. ♪

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commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. >> five. >> oh, five. commerce, education, and the -- >> epa? >> epa, there you go, no. the third agency of government, i would do away with the education, the -- commerce. commerce. and let's see -- i can't the third one i can't. sorry, oops. >> are you not entertained? are you not entertained!

are you not entertained! i don't even know which to pick. there's the part where ron paul's trying to help him out going, i think you mean five. other people are shouting out, i think you mean epa. but you know they wanted to shout [ bleep ] out like corn dogs. in the middle of that perry should have been like, uh, uh, i smell toast! >> oops. >> oops! oops! oops! oh, p.s., oops! thank you, jesus. oops! that is not the four letter word i would have gone with. oops. like it's a juice box. oops, oh, my god, my chance to be president of the united states, oh, oops. >> oh, all right, top of the

hour. welcome back to "morning joe" on this veterans day. mike barnicle and donny deutsch are here. and joining us now msnbc political analyst eugene robinson who has a really good piece in the post this morning about rick perry not being the only one that stuck his foot in his mouth during the debate. >> we'll talk about that in a minute. the kids on twitter love me. i don't know why, they just do. >> really, i had to close mine down. really? >> the kids on twitter love me. and all the kids on the far right and far left saying really nice things about me, and i picked up -- >> what did you get? >> what i got was corbett the governor was actually attorney general twice. >> that's right. >> twice before he was governor. he certainly was attorney general while a lot of these

rapes were going on. and i wonder if any of this information got to the attorney general's office. i think that's something that needs to be investigated. >> we'll find out. >> when he was asked yesterday during a press conference he kept saying he can't talk about the investigation that he was involved in. >> he was asked during the press conference if he felt a sense of satisfaction that finally there had been charges resulting from this. >> he was attorney general of the state of pennsylvania. gene, he was attorney general of the state of pennsylvania. >> he started the investigation. he launched the investigation in 2009 that led to the grand jury indictment. and, in fact, he -- he convened the grand jury or his prosecutors did. he knew that all this was going on. and so he becomes governor and cannot -- and then could not discuss this with any of the penn state trustees. >> you're saying, though, he was, though, the guy that

finally brought it to light. >> exactly. when it got to him, he took action. and so he is -- are there any heroes in this story? if there are any, i would argue that corbett is one. he not only started the investigation, but pursued it doggedly. >> well, that's good to know. >> he had -- >> good to know. >> earlier in his career, he had had a case involving pedophiles. and it really made an impression on him. and so he was determined to pursue this doggedly. and, in fact, as governor he is kind of a very powerful member of the penn state board. and my understanding is that his influence, you know, helped ensure that the board of trustees the other night was going to get rid of paterno. >> you know what? i raised the question as a

skeptic. and it sounds like from gene, willie, this guy's one of the few good guys. >> he makes the point, the governor was behind the scenes calling members of the board of the trustees, including the man we saw at the press conference the head of u.s. steel saying, do the right thing, the country is watching, you've got to clean house. he was doing that behind the scenes, gene's right about that. >> wow. all right. >> i can't think of a story that rivals this in terms of college sports or anything. >> no, it is. and, gene robinson, you're a big fan, as well as other guys around the table. big college football fan, and we're just sitting here, of course, devastated by this. >> yeah. >> but mike barnicle said it's the biggest story in the history of college sports, would you agree? >> i would agree. and it -- and it says so much. imagine being a big college president right now. imagine being president of the university of michigan where i

went or university of maryland, alabama, any of the big sports schools and, you know, you've got to be thinking -- there's got to be kind of a knot in the pit of your stomach, and you want to know, you want to make sure, certainly nothing horrible like this. but what's going on in your athletic department? and is it in control? and do you know what's happening? this is a huge story, and i hope it it has an influence over big-time college sports in this country that's lasting, i hope. >> you certainly understand being a michigan grad, the power the devotion beckler would've had in the '60s and '70s. woody hayes at ohio state. for people that live in urban areas that don't follow college football in more rural areas, they have no idea. they have no idea how powerful, gene, a woody hayes or a joe

paterno is. they are like gods in their states. >> they have no clue. beau shembeckler was the coach when i was at michigan. and i once co-authored an editorial that was entitled "bo must go." and our position, we didn't have a logical argument. but we thought he was too sort of martial about the whole thing and taking it seriously. and this was the '70s. and -- i got -- i got hate mail. i mean hate mail like i have never received since to this day from alumni, from other members of the campus community, from students -- it was incredible. and you just have no idea what sort of figures these football coaches are and certainly back in those days, the athletic

director. i think in penn state it was a little different because the football coach was clearly more more powerful than the athletic director. >> and joe paterno is saying i took the information to my superior -- that's a laugh. >> there were none. >> there were no superiors in pennsylvania than joe paterno. so willie, we're talking about college sports and the corruptness of college sports. of course, there's an amazing book that's just been released on college sports. it was an article first. taylor branch. and you need to read that book in conjunction with this scandal and realize just how out of whack things have become. >> i think mike is right. that this is the biggest story because it could change, hopefully, if we hang on to it and really look into it, the way college athletics work within a university. at the big schools, they are their own kingdoms. the kids eat separately, live separately, they play by their own rules, rally around each

other. not just because i went to school there, in 2003 at vanderbilt, they got rid of the athletic department. the university president did it. he was highly criticized at the time, but he did it to break down barriers like this. you're students first who happen to play football. we'll give you special help, you can eat differently if you need to, but you are a part of this university, you don't live in your own world. >> guys, can we lift this out of college sports. because it is the biggest story in the history of college sports. there's a heinousness to this that nothing matches. but the schism in this country is the haves versus the have nots and a more stunning example of preying on underprivileged children in the most extreme polarizing example of what's pulling this country apart demonstrated in the most disgusting, vile manner. it's a mind set -- it's even bigger -- it's just the entitlement of people up here and the victimization of people

down here in the most stunning example. >> well, one of the reasons that i would contend that this is the single most important story ever in the history of college sports has to do, not necessarily with haves and have nots, but the function of money in academic systems. ken indicated that joe paterno's football program was now this year worth probably $50 million to $100 million for penn state. >> wow. >> coaches are sought and retained by these huge schools, alabama, ohio state, michigan, notre dame, and they have paid multiples of million dollars in salary to get the coach. can you imagine how much john gruden would be offered to go coach at any school, $5 million, $6 million a year, and you're paying a physics professor $125,000? >> it's out of whack. >> and there's something so askew about big-time college athletics at many levels that i

think eventually when we come down off this horrific ladder of this awful story, stuff like this will get addressed as it was at vanderbilt. >> i hope it was. smaller stories over the past years even from getting merchandise money versus the students who should just be studying and not benefitting and whether or not they should, it's all about money. and this has become now an insidious force in which might have led to the victimization of dozens of children. you know that if these allegations turn out to be true, there will be more than eight. >> no doubt. let's move on to gene's column. >> your column. politics now. eugene robinson in the "washington post" and the gop debate. rick perry wasn't alone in not making sense. don't laugh too hard at rick perry for mortifying -- for his mortifying episode of brain lock at wednesday's gop presidential candidates' debate. his opponents didn't do better

at making sense. oh, and herman cain, in many ways his gaffe was worse than perry's. he referred to house minority leader nancy pelosi as princess nancy. cain has spent the past week of convincing the nation he's not guilty of piggish behavior toward women. belittling the first woman of the house was appalling. it produced a clear winner, once again, it was president obama. anyone disagree? >> gene, what do you say? >> i rest my case. it was really -- it was amazing. you know, i thought that moderators did as good a job as they could at trying to pin these guys and michele bauchmann down on some of the stuff they were saying. but some of it was absurd. you know, mitt romney had some moments where he was able to kind of dodge logical follow-up questions because they had asked

the follow-up questions and he had managed to skirt them. >> and by the way, mitt romney saying things about china that everybody on the planet knows mitt romney didn't believe about china. jon huntsman brings it up, and mitt romney dances around it. >> mm-hmm. >> it's ridiculous. hey, gene, i want you to look at these numbers. it goes on every debate. and you can trace the approval rating since these debates have begun. they've been creeping up every time. especially comparison between the president and also the -- the generic republican candidate. his approval rating's sitting at 44%. pretty consistent there. but when you look at the president stacked up against the generic candidates, suddenly the republicans who held a big advantage, you can take that down now, guys. the republicans that had a big advantage don't have that big advantage before. there you go, barack obama who

was down, i think, four, five, six points just a month or two ago, now one point ahead of the candidates. and also, gene, more importantly, you go to the swing states and look at the swing states and barack obama who was in the low 40s and struggling before these republican side shows began, well, now he's -- now he's winning ohio, he's looking good in pennsylvania, and looking good in florida. >> yeah. and head-to-head against specific republican possible candidates. the president tends to do better and better and better longer this sort of circus goes on. these -- the series of republican debates is not doing anything for the republican candidate. it's doing a lot for president obama. in connection with what else is going on with the work he's been doing to try to solidify the

democratic base. and on the republican side, this continuing split between those who were ready to accept mitt romney as a nominee and those who are not. and so if this -- the longer this dynamic continues, i think the less optimistic the republican party is going to have a right to be that this is their year. >> well, you know, donny deutsch, three years ago looked like the republicans' year. and you're branding it's either going up or going down, it's never the same. the president was -- the republicans had the president in the corner. in the corner, low 40s, possibly sinking into the 30s in some polls, but just slowly with every mistake that these -- not romney or huntsman, but these extreme republicans have been making, and i'm not even talking ideology, just their extreme statements, their extreme actions, it's like -- it's hurt

the republican brand and for those who don't follow politics every day, they just kind of pass their tv set and go, he said what? and just say, you know, i don't know if i'm ready to turn the country over to these guys. >> do you know what's fascinating? this president who is about as media centric president we've ever said. you notice he's not on tv a lot these days lately? because if you think about it he's saying to himself, the more air time these guys get -- >> take it away. >> it's so interesting -- he was in your face everywhere. suddenly since these debates start, he's like, i'm eating popcorn, i'm going to let this go. and what's starting to happen is, you go, you know what? this country, i don't like what's happening, but you start to go, at the very least this is an impressive human being. this is a bright, thoughtful human being, and maybe the problems are beyond him. maybe it's a gridlocked congress -- >> come on. >> no, no -- >> give me a break. he's president of the united states. you know what?

come on. >> joe -- joe -- >> don't be starting the obama apology tour. because of a couple of points in the polls. >> i'm saying as a human being, he's a more impressive individual -- >> as a human being, i could give you a long list of people who have worked with him as a human being, he may not be the best president of the united states because he is detached emotionally -- >> i'm saying compared to these characters. >> you can't disagree with me because people who have worked with him -- >> i'm agreeing with that analysis, but i'm saying compared to these kids -- you can't argue with what i'm saying. >> compared to -- >> gene! >> i'm not comparing him to franklin roosevelt. i'm not comparing him to franklin roosevelt. this is a zero-sum game. what is with you today? >> i think donny's point is right. >> -- sweetness and light b.s. about obama -- >> it's not sweetness, it's a comparison of people. >> donny, we love you.

>> here's where i think donny is absolutely right. i think people are being very logical and analytical about the way they're looking at this election. for all the emotion that's whirling around about obama, personality, this personality and that personality and central character, i think people are looking at the issues. they're looking at the situation the country is in. and they're listening for ideas. and so they may not be wild about what obama is doing and what obama says he's going to do. but what is anybody else -- promising that makes more sense to them? i don't think they're hearing it. they're not hearing. >> and gene, the kids on twitter get it right again. @billybam says it's not just republicans, he set up very well. been going out, talking jobs, jobs, jobs. stealing a page out of harry

truman's do-nothing congress trick in 1948 and i think this is helping him out. >> politically very astute. >> can't beat something with nothing. exactly. >> are we okay? >> yeah, we're fine. >> i was afraid we were going back to '98 and we were going to have flowers in our hair talking about hope and change. >> what happened last -- something happened. >> oh, could it just be that he's a sensitive, delicate -- >> no -- >> enlightened -- >> by the way -- by the way i agree with your analysis of him being detached of a problem. once again, if you compare him -- >> you know who is not detached? a guy who loves hugs, full-frontal hugs, the man, david axelrod. >> he's going to help. >> he's sort of looking like a professor. we're going to talk to him when we return. [ male announcer ] humana and walmart have teamed up

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president obama's plan for

job creation has absolutely nothing to do with the true people who know how to create jobs. he should really be going to job creators if he wants to know how to create jobs. he continues to go to a general axelrod in chicago to look for his orders to figure out how to deal with the economy. that won't work. >> many times that that happened. >> everybody salute, on deck -- >> unnecessary. unnecessary. >> at ease is what you're supposed to say. >> where's your unform? >> thus proving -- >> where is your uniform, general? >> i turned on my tv this morning saw you were wearing a checked shirt and decided we were going cas -- >> he's a trend-setter now. >> one of the best italian restaurants. >> david axelrod, also with us from washington, we have the moderator of "meet the press." >> this is big. two days in a row. >> david gregory. >> so, david, you were accused of being a -- well, a general --

a political general, michele bauchmann said it the other night, lindsey graham suggested as much that the obama administration is making decisions involving iraq and afghanistan and the well being of our troops and the safety of our nation based on political considerations. >> well, i think that's nonsuccess. and i think the president's proved -- more than proven himself as commander in chief. we've been on a track for -- since the beginning of the administration to withdraw troops in a responsible way. that's what we've done. so that's -- it certainly doesn't have anything to do with me. >> there was some ambiguity as to whether all the troops would be out of iraq by the end of the year. all the combat troops. is that the case? >> yes, that's the case. some would remain a small number in training roles. and that -- those didn't prove out.

>> but republicans saying you all didn't fight hard enough and the iraqis would have been willing to give you concessions -- >> that's simply not true. we've been steadily criticized. some of those same republicans criticized the president's strategy in libya. that turned out pretty well. some of them originally said he wasn't going to be tough enough on al qaeda. i think that's proven not to be the case. so i wouldn't take these criticisms terribly seriously. it's politics. >> we've got the super committee fighting to get a deal that will hopefully avoid the automatic cuts from being kicked in. right now they're at an impasse, some calling for the president to get involved in it. but right now the president says he's going to let them do their job. do you expect the president to get involved? >> first of all, the president made recommendations on the front end to the committee. the committee has a job to do -- they ought to do the job. there is the trigger on the other side. but they ought to do the job. and you know, i think there are a lot of people in that congress who want to do the job.

we've seen indications of that. you know, a lot of folks breaking out and trying to influence the outcome there. so they simply have to do their job. >> and when we talk about -- whenever we have people around the table -- i know you watch a good bit because you e-mail us. i know you particularly love the interviews with bill clinton and the love you feel. >> it warms me up. >> it does warm you up because -- >> the two of you. that whole impeachment thing is behind you. >> it was the '90s, it seemed like the thing to do. but you watch the show, you know that there are a lot of republicans, a lot of democrats, a lot of thoughtful people that really regret the fact that the president did not adopt the simpson/bowles debt commission report. do you think the president may have made a mistake? >> no, joe, first of all i think he made the right decision in the first place, and secondly,

when their report came out, it was very clear he embraced it at that moment, it would have been doa. the principles of simpson/bowles very much informed his discussions with john boehner. where i regret at the time they were talking about this grand bargain in the summer they couldn't move forward and do that, that there was so much dissension in the ranks on the republican side we couldn't do that. but simpson/bowles was an important step forward. >> all right. i want to bring david gregory in in just a moment. but right in front of you is the "washington post," on every paper, this is the keystone oil pipeline and the president's pushed it off until after 2012. here's what speaker boehner said about that decision. it's been deemed and environmentally sound and calling for a new route is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to avoid upsetting the base. the president has delayed other initiatives as the election comes upon us, is this all

political? is this just strategy to put off a difficult decision? >> no, mika, and i would suggest that the speaker call his republican colleague in nebraska, the governor of nebraska who strongly protested that route on environmental grounds and concerns that it would threaten the ground water in the state of nebraska and talk to him about it. there are serious issues surrounding this pipeline that deserve to be considered seriously. >> but how many jobs does it create? big jobs -- >> well, that is a point that's in dispute. it will create some jobs and there's no doubt about it. the estimates have run from 5,000 to the proponents of it say 100,000. but the point is, joe, whatever happens with that pipeline, it has to make sense from the standpoint of the health and safety of the american people. and i think, you know, this was a state department decision. i think it was the right decision. >> david gregory. >> good morning. >> i would like you to ask david

axelrod a question at this point in the show. >> david, i've been looking through -- >> it feels like sunday, doesn't it? >> david, i've been looking through some polling analysis that indicates one of the problems that the president has is an image problem. and by that i mean people still don't have a clear sense of who he is, what he's for, what he's against. if you go back to 2004, carl rove said to the president if the conversation is the war on terror, the answer is president bush. and that ultimately is what won him the election. so what is the main attribute? what is the president's image that will ring true in voters' minds when they go to the polls? >> well, i think the image they'll have and what they have today is a guy who is earnestly working to solve what is the major problem facing our country, and that is how do we rebuild an economy, not just in the short run to create jobs, but in the long run create jobs to restore the middle class and the economic security that

people have lost over -- not just the last three years, but over decades. that's the big challenge of our time. we've seen a hallowing out of the middle class, and we've seen a situation where people's wages have been flat lining for decades. we have to rebuild an economy where people have a chance to get ahead if they work hard, they can get ahead, if they're responsible, they're rewarded. that is the essence of who we are. that's going to be the key issue in this campaign, david. >> if he's the guy seen as working earnestly to overcome those challenges, won't people necessarily look at what he has or has not accomplished. he has not accomplished being pretty high. >> they will look at what he's done and whether we're moving -- whether the steps he's taken have made sense. we'll look, for example, david, at the american auto industry back in the winter of 2009. there were many people who said let the auto industry go, let detroit go bankrupt, mitt romney was one of those people. and the president resisted that and the polls, did what he

thought was right. and instead of losing a million jobs, we have an auto industry growing again. you're not going to solve problems that have been building up over a long period of time. overnight, the american people know that. but they want to know where your going and they certainly don't want to go back to the same policies that created the crisis in the first place. and that's what we're being offered on the other side. >> david, you're lucky in the sense that you now live in chicago, you don't live in that bubble, washington, d.c. so i would assume that, you know, just walking around the loop, walking around chicago, you get the same sense that i do from people. they're anxious about the state of this country. somewhat fearful about the future. >> yes. >> and strongly, strongly looking for strong leadership, political leadership. so if you look at the election a year from now, you've got a year to hit independence, and they'll probably move the election, what perception do you think they have now of president obama that you would like to alter or

change? >> well, obviously i want this next year to be a vigorous debate about how we rebuild the economy and the way that i suggested because that gets to the core anxiety of people and it gets to the core of our future. but one thing, mike, i think they do believe strongly about the president. he does what he believes, he has principles and he pursues them and that's going to be important. by the way, on the issue of this economy, because it is -- i heard your discussion before about how he seems to be rising relative to the other candidates during these republican debates. it's not just as joe suggests because there's some unusual things being said and done in and outside of those debates in the republican race. it's because every single one of those republicans says the same thing, if we cut taxes, government, and regulation, everyone will profit, everyone will do better. the american people are smarter than that, they know we're going to have to do other things, educate our people, we're going to have to be the most

innovative country in the world again. we're going to have to rebuild our infrastructure. >> it's also because the president's going out on the campaign trail. he's focused like a laser on jobs. just like your political adviser barnicle suggested in march of 2009. >> we don't even have to pay -- we just turn on the tv. >> and listened to him a couple years later and those numbers kept creeping up -- you know regardless, you're going to have a dog fight on your hands. and all the swing states, florida is locked up. ohio is locked up. pennsylvania locked up, which is great for democrats because republicans report just enough money to realize in late october they can't win it again as we do every four years. >> from your mouth, to god's ears. >> it's fool's gold for republicans. the question is, though, looking at the elections of the last week, you could look at ohio. and the great news for democrats has to be that the anti-union

law, kasich's anti-union law went downment on the other side of that ledger, the same people that voted that law down, 63% of them said that their federal government shouldn't have health care mandates. so how do you balance out those two? and how do you look at ohio? does this put ohio back in the ledger for you guys? >> i think ohio's back in the ledger not because of that particularly. i think that what happened there was important. people -- you know i think what happened in 2010, we may have discussed this before. a lot of these independent voters who mike's talking about, they wanted the parties to work together. they'll thought if they elected republicans, they would get some sort of blend of policies, and what they got instead was extreme sort of ideological positions. in ohio, there was an overreach. >> i think that does help set

the stage for this election. >> david, very quickly. >> let's go really quickly down to david gregory. we're missing david. we haven't talked to him a whole lot here. david, he's lonely. he's looking lonely down here. >> i'm here in a lonely studio. >> why the heck did i wake up so early? >> how did you parse those two election results? those two ballot initiatives in ohio? one, a big one for the president, a big loss for the president. >> i've talked to people on both ends of the political spectrum here who conclude that it's an indication that voters are not much in the mood for government republican or democrat reaching a little too far. to really change things. that was one part of the story. but i think in ohio is also union activism and union turnout. john kasich has told people he had to go fight the good fight, this was not necessarily something he campaigned to do,

but then he took up the fight and was outmaneuvered by the fact that unions came out strong here. this is a challenge for the republican party at the moment, which is there is, if you look at our polls such a sense of inequality, structural inequality in our economy. and how do you get after that. how do you change that? it can't be through tax policy alone, tax cuts or tax reform. there has to be this debate about where there can be a public and private partnership, the role of government. and a lot of business leaders are talking about the need for government to play an important role. but it's figuring out what government can do right. so i think that's part of the debate. but i'm not sure in this campaign we're actually having that sort of nuance conversation. it seems to be very binary -- >> for the government or against it. >> that's what the campaign is going to be about. people in ohio said we are concerned about the hollowing out of the middle class, we want an economy in which you work hard, you can get ahead again. we think this is going to hurt

working people. and i think this is going to be a major, major issue in this campaign. >> can i ask you a question, mike? >> yeah. >> how many people do you think go to watch the white house play in cuff links? and do you think david wears cuff links? >> i didn't have a shirt with a button on it. >> i noticed that myself. >> he's gone up town. >> he has. >> i got caught in the switches. i didn't realize -- >> do you live in evanston now? >> i'm not donny deutsch, i'm never going to be in "gq." >> that's true. >> white house cuff links? >> they are. >> david, yes, go ahead. >> no, i was going to say what people don't realize about you -- >> what other secrets do you want to expose of mine right now. >> when you go to all of the cocktail parties on the upper west side every night, you still do wear a bama jersey.

>> i'm man of the people. i haven't forgotten my roots. david axelrod, cuff links. >> you know what -- >> i'm ruined. >> i guarantee you, you're like me, you probably didn't have a clean shirt with buttons. >> that's exactly it. honest -- >> any time i wear my one cuff link shirt -- >> it's not like donny who has 12 outfits out -- >> donny's the only one out of respect to the show is wearing a tie. >> donny looks good. >> -- more than the first host. >> david axelrod, thanks so much. david gregory, thank you, as well. we're going to see you on "meet the press" where your guests will include debbie wasserman schultz, and michele bauchmann. coming up, general ray odierno and retired colonel jack jacobs are going to be with us at the table. very excited to have these two great american heroes with us. ♪

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you'll never roam alone. welcome back to "morning joe" on this veterans day. and joining us now, a former top commander in iraq, now chief of staff of the u.s. army general ray odierno. also with us, jack jacobs, now an msnbc military analyst. good to have you both with us. this is a -- >> good morning. >> let's talk about this book. >> i love this book. i'm already reading the stories. >> and here's the story about jack jacobs. tell us about the book. >> the book is "medal of honor." it's got photographic portraits and the stories and the back stories, which is interesting stuff about 140 medal of honor recipients. it's the 150th anniversary edition because it's the 150th anniversary of the creation of the medal of honor.

there's a 90-minute dvd. and what's significant about it aside from the fact it's a lovely book is that there are about 140 recipients in there, there are only 85 alive today. >> only 85 alive. and general, we went about 40 years before honoring somebody while they were still alive as a medal of honor winner. and yet, three extraordinary heroes have received that honor. >> what's always amazing to me when you talk to them and how humble they are. and you ask them, what did you do? and they said i did my job. and that's an incredible thing. i was just there for my friends, we trusted each other, we were in a tough situation, i did what i was supposed to do. >> isn't it amazing, general? they all say that. they all say that. >> it's true. >> you never have a guy say, well, you know, i was pinned down and the fire was coming

like barnicle and i. they're just like, just helping my buddies. doing my job. >> i talk all the time, it's pretty personal. and it is about those guys to your right and left in front of you and it's about an inherent trust you have to have in each other and dependence on each other. >> it's about at the end of the day -- now, i understand you trained this guy. this guy. 6'5", and you, of course, 6'3", but anyway -- >> it's all a matter of perspective. >> what you have to teach not just cadets but everybody in there. not esoteric ideas about freedom, it's about protecting the guy to the right of them. >> that's something you come to naturally. in the crucible of war, you either hang together or hang separately. really quickly there's a great sty told by walter anderson left home, left school at 16 and

joined the marine corps, fought it, came back to be ceo of parade magazine. therm fighting during the offensive outside the wire. one one marine got caught outside in the hail of bullets, his sergeant ran outside the wire, grabbed him, got wounded in the process, brought the kid back. and the wounded marine who eventually died looked up and said, i knew you'd come for me. i think that says it all about how you act together in combat. >> and you talked, general, about it being personal, and why joe as you mentioned they don't react as much when they talk about the heroic acts. it's inexplicable. and those that have been there

feel like most people won't understand. >> there's a bond. but it's not a stated bond. i tell everybody -- when i talk about going to combat, if you wear this uniform but the one that we wear, i have an inherent trust that you will be there for me. it's critical to what we do as a profession. we have to rely on people that we might not even know, no matter what. >> and liking, hating, it doesn't matter. if they are in a uniform, you know that they are going to be there. >> it's amazing. it really is. >> i want to show a picture, jack being of a good friend of mine through the years. not doing great right now. bud day. he badgered his parents until they let him fight in world war ii. he fought in the korean war, got shot down in vietnam and escaped. >> escaped again. refused to cooperate with his north vietnamese captures, was

able to talk about the tap code so that they could communicate. solitary confinement, often getting tortured every day, the way that he comported himself was enough to give all the other p.o.w.s the koushlg to do what they do. >> last week i had an opportunity to meet george stacatto. he was honored by president clinton, i believe. he fought in world war ii, japanese-american, was in an internment camp when the war started. he was part of the most decorated unit during world war ii. he was an 85, 90-year-old japanese-american who stood up and said, i just want to let

people know that i love this country and i wanted to fight for this country. this a person whose family had been interned. these people who motivate me, frankly, people who just care so much about their country. and no matter how other people might look at him. to me, that tells an incredible story. >> our friend, tom brokaw, talks about the greatest generation, mike, and i look at this generation and what has happened over the last ten years. i look at the fact that washington has been at war itself and sending young men and women across the globe with multiple deployment. i look at the fact that they keep their head down in an unpopular war in iraq. that things blow up in 2006. politicians running around saying that the war is lost and they just keep doing their job every day. same thing in afghanistan. there are so many heroes, so many heroes over the past

decade, unnamed heroes that we don't talk about, that we don't know. but this generation is an extraordinary generation of fighters. >> oh, there's no doubt, joe. and washington should take heed to some of what has been said here this morning, despite the movies and the grizzly video games. they walk it for the person alongside and the guy behind them and they walk it because they have learned leadership skills, how to be honorable, how to work as a unit, something that clearly washington, d.c., has failed to recognize for at least ten years. a lot of lessons to be learned. >> you know, it's amazing. we've been at war for ten years and yet we have young men and

women who raise are their right hand so they can continue to serve. >> general owed area know, thank you so much. we'll be right back. ♪ [ cellphone rings ] cut! [ monica ] i have a small part in a big movie. i thought we'd be on location for 3 days, it's been 3 weeks. so, i used my citi simplicity card to pick up a few things. and i don't have to worry about a late fee. which is good... no! bigger! bigger! [ monica ] ...because i don't think we're going anywhere for a while. [ male announcer ] write your story with the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. get started at citisimplicity.com.

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[ male announcer ] when life changes, so can your insurances needs. use travelers free guide to better coverage to stay prepared. is your auto and home insurance keeping up with you? contact your local travelers agent, or call 800-my-coverage. rick perry excuses, number ten -- >> three reasons i messed up last night. one was the nerves.

>> uh-huh. >> and two was the headache. >> uh-huh. >> and three -- >> that's all right. don't worry about it. >> i don't know what you're talking about. i think things went well. >> hey, i was up late last night watching "dancing with the stars." >> i thought the debate was tonight. >> it was a mix-up, ladies and gentlemen. >> when you have mitt romney smiling at you, that is one handsome dude. >> hey, wait a minute, i heard that. >> i wanted to take the heat off of herman cain. >> and the number one rick perry excuse --

>> i just learned justin bieber is my father. good morning. it is friday. finally, finally, finally. 8:00 on the east coast. take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." >> he was good, donny. >> he was great. that was the right move. you walk right into it, you make fun of yourself and show that it doesn't bother you. it ain't going to change, it's over for perry. >> he was good. >> it might move the meter a little for him but, no, i don't think it changes things in the long run for politics. the guy was terrific. >> he's handled this well from the moment it happened. he said, what else are you going to do? it's a monumental mistake that's going to cause him the campaign.

>> bill clinton gave the speech for michael dukakis. it was a disaster. the democratic national committee starting booing bill clinton. booed him. bill clinton was the joke of that convention. and what did he do the next night? >> went on johnny carson and explained it and laughed about it. >> there's a difference between being long winded and he stupid. there's a big difference. >> and what does that mean? >> yeah. >> he doesn't do well in debates. that's when you have to think on your feet and demonstrate -- >> barack obama didn't do well in debates. you voted for him. >> i'm going to say it one more time, there's a difference between doing well and being ignorant, for lack of a better

word. >> and you're saying that perry is ignorant? >> he seems to be to me. >> george w. bush is a bright guy. you meet him one on one, he is bright, is he engaging. is that not right, mike? were you not blown away about how bright and engaging the guy is when you met him? >> i know a very good friend of mine, life life-long democrat, went to a meeting with george w. bush within the last month in august. came back and was stunned. stunned. that he was one of the most personable person he's ever met -- >> terrific. >> and likeable. you put a camera on him, and the guy freezes. >> not all the time. >> he was stiff and awkward a

lot. everybody on the left was calling him an idiot and saying that he was too dumb to be president. of course, they said the same thing about eisenhower. that's what you say about republicans, i guess. some people are not good with -- >> then you're not good for that job. >> that's fine. but to say he's ill-equipped like i said about barack obama in 2008? maybe perry is ill-equipped to be president but maybe le grow into it. >> all i have seen on the tube, he doesn't seem incredibly, incredibly bright to me. but even more importantly, joe, i'm sorry, mika -- >> oh, my gosh. >> would you -- instead of rubbing the box, do you want to open it up? >> who's the brandon there? >> because he mauled me. >> last time i learned i hugged

you and you got horribly uncomfortable. >> that sort of behavior would have gotten you in trouble had you been running the restaurant association. >> and calling her princess. >> look at that. i'm not going to lie. >> look at that. >> all is forgiven, donny. >> we started off on a bad foot. >> wow. can you even do news now. >> um, yeah, i can. >> you and i don't have shoes that come in red velvet bags like that. >> how do you walk in those. >> very easily. >> donny, it's very sweet. i'll think about it. all right. >> gosh. >> wow, that's something. >> all right, donny, i had to shift gears somehow. >> yeah. >> it's like you're going home with your wife and -- >> okay. so from that and of course the

reason donny is doing that is veterans day, mike barnicle. a lot to be grateful for. >> a lot to be grateful for, especially veterans currently serving. >> take it away, joe. >> you have a staff that you were reading way too early, the number of veterans in congress is 22% and the only thing that people were able to get done was done yesterday. bipartisan effort, legislation on behalf of veterans. and still in this country, when you go around with less than 1% of people in this country serving in the wars that have gone on for ten years, i think it's appropriate that all of us take at least ten seconds today, just ten seconds to think of the service that is rendered on our behalf. >> i would argue that we should

do more than think about it. our country needs to stop and consider all of those people that have come home and will be coming home at the end of the year from iraq and think about how we ice them in our society. >> yes. >> and not to do them favors. not to patronize them but to use them for the skills that they have. the qualities of leadership. talk about going into a job interview with a resume, they come home, and this person whom will not be named says, this is nice, but have you ever had a real job? >> yeah. >> and it's all they can do not to laugh in their face, i led guys up a hill, built a town, we built a water treatment facility. we set up a market economy. my point is, employers need to learn how to recognize the value of these guys and not because

you use a flag pen lapel. they have talents. >> you were talking about it yesterday. last night i was talking to someone, 22 years old, at the age of 20, two years ago, he was running a squad of 12 marines, going village to village inn afghanistan, risking their lives each and every time and building an irrigation canal for a town that never had a well water pump and then come back and reentry into this life. there are corporations out there. these people are much more valuable in a larger leadership sense than any mba graduate that you're going to find from harvard, there's no comparison. >> if you look at being in the military or corporation, life and death, whole other issue, so many instruct you recall things. and you say the words 19 and 20. >> yep. >> stop and look at a son, daughter, see what that looks like. kids, god bless you.

and just in time for veterans day, the senate voted overwhelmingly in favor of a bill that would give tax credits to businesses hiring unemployed or disabled veterans. it passed by a 94-1 margin. and jim demeant voted againstde said that you shouldn't favor one over another. the bill will send it to house and will send to president obama for signatures next week. it really, at this point, at the rate we're going in this country, every day in light of what willy said, should be veterans day. >> you know, yesterday i got home and took calls all day. it's the penn state story. >> there was a lot to report on this. >> you know, joey, a big sports fan, said he couldn't watch espn all day yesterday. think about all of the fans like

that. when i was driving home, that's all they are talking about on the radio. this is one of the ugliest, ugliest things. and now there's even the possibility of foul play, willy, with the last d.a. who disappeared five years ago. >> yeah, we're going to talk about this with a guest. we want be careful. because the d.a. who was looking into jerry sandusky five years ago literally vanished. they haven't found him. >> and his computer found in the river and hard drive removed. >> here's where we are now. the head football coach -- tax authorities are looking into the team's 1999 trip to san antonio for the alamo bowl. the grand jury report outlines sandusky's alleged assault of eight boys over the span of 15 years.

they took a boy to the bowl game and threatened to send him home when the boy resisted his sexual advances. in state college pennsylvania, the decision was supported by governor corbett to fire joe paterno. the country is watching their aks. >> your actions speak much louder than your words and will carry with you for a long period of time. i believe in your right to assembly and you're right to express your opinions. i do not believe nor do i think anybody beliefs in the right to violence. you have a passion? great. you want to demonstrate? great. you want to speak out? great. violence is a knucklehead. >> there's no doubt. and we have a good friend who has been on this show before.

hall. >> yes, hal. >> his kids are at penn state. have been going there for years. and actually my family went out with them to a penn state-alabama game earlier in the year. and they were so proud of that college and i was so proud to be up there and their -- and i said it. they are great people up there. this is just -- this is so devastating. matt millan, the penn state linebacker broke down crying yesterday on espn. saying you're ashamed of your university and he didn't say he was but he spoke quietly. how about those -- such a tragedy for the kids. also, such a tragedy for people that invested their family's lives at penn state, only to be letdown horribly by these

terrible, terrible men. >> a lot of these kids are demonstrating that they are angry about the firing of joe paterno. i wonder if that was one of their little brothers. for not -- for these college students to be acting -- obviously it's not all of them. >> by the way, i bet that doesn't get along. i bet parents picked up the phone and said, hey, jackass if i see you protesting in the firing of a boy that allowed the raping of little boys, i'm picking you up and you can demonstrate outside of your house in between your jobs at shack shake. >> so according to msnbc, joe paterno has reached out to a high-profile washington defense lawyer to represent him as the investigations continue. on saturday -- >> by the way, he should. this is a criminal conspiracy. >> yeah. >> and joe paterno is part of a criminal conspiracy. >> on saturday, penn state plays at home against nebraska and university officials now say

assistant coach mike mcquery, the former graduate assistant who witnessed sandusky molesting a boy in the shower will not be on the side lines due to "multiple threats" against him. >> willie geist, this man should be kicked off of the penn state squad. he shouldn't be within 100 miles of state college. and i'm kind of surprised they still have a blind side on a boy who was being raped in the shower and ran home and called daddy. i'm surprised he's still there. i'm surprised they are saying he's not there only because of threats made against him and not because of what is alleged in the indictment. usa today has a front-page story about victim number one, outlined in the grand jury report. the point of the story was, it took this kid, who was something like 11 years old, to start this investigation. in other words, none of the

adults who knew any of this told the story. it was the kid, after four years of being sexually molested by jerry sandusky, went to the police. >> there is no forgiving this guy. he may have been a wonderful guy his entire life. there's no forgiving of himself, his family, and anyone that he told. >> he ran and told his father that he had been sodomized. that means the dad is driving around penn state and knowing that jerry sandusky is running around molesting people and that means when he sees -- i'm talking the dad, the son, everybody that knew. they see jerry sandusky standing on the side lines with little boys, that they know are being raped, and yet they say nothing

because they are afraid that their son may not get the big job or shunned by the penn state community. they are just as guilty as anybody. >> you can't even put the word tragedy against this. the stronger they go after the people that kept it silent, the more we're going to send a signal across the country to people who are one or two steps removed from the same -- the conscience out of protecting themselves, they will come forward. okay. up next, how to find real health care and savings. dr. ezekiel emanuel joins us. also, ken burns and lisa ling will be here as we honor veterans day. first, though, a check on the weekend forecast with bill karins. >> pretty nice conditions out there. you saw the new york city skyline looking gorgeous. the rain yesterday in new england has cleared out. we are going to look for a cold, windy day. it's on the extremely chilly

side. 38 right now in new york. 35 in washington, d.c. pittsburgh and buffalo, by the way, by the tokyo plateau of snow on the ground. we're getting the first lake-effect snow. we're happy to say that everyone is watching. we're looking at a really nice weekend and we're going to warm it up compared to today. enjoy a very nice veterans day around the nation and, of course, a very nice holiday weekend. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the employee of the month isss... the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high. owning my own business has never been more rewarding. coming through! [ male announcer ] introducing spark the small business credit cards from capital one. get more by choosing unlimited double miles

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i just checked out this perry ad that didn't get much attention. when you look at it now, what happened last night kind of makes sense. take a look. >> as a son of farmers, i learned the values of hard work, faith, and family. i took those values with me when i served our country as a pilot in the -- in the -- god, what's it called, with the planes and stuff? any way, then i returned home and married my wife linda. wait, it's not linda. what the hell is her name? regardless, as they say where i'm from, don't mess with -- with -- oh, come on, brain. don't do this. >> texas. >> shut up, romney. i got this. >> i'm rick perry and i approve this message. >> so this is actually -- this is a trend. >> all right.

joining us now, former white house advisor for health policy, dr. emanuel. chair of the department of medical ethics and health policy at the university of pennsylvania school of medicine. welcome back. >> nice to be here. >> good to have you on board. one of the questions being asked of the republicans, if you're going to repeal obama's health care policy, what are you going to do? is it worth repeal or reform or where do you stand on the issue? >> the health care law is very important and it's made a huge amount of change already. the entire medical community, hospitals and doctors are really trying very hard now to reform and deliver better medicine for lower prices and all through the debate, the republicans never had an alternative. and they never proposed something different. >> that is not true. >> i disagree with you. >> republicans had a lot of alternatives in the house. they just weren't allowed on the floor by nancy. i know you're a soft spoken guy

like your brother. >> what were those alternatives? >> i'm not a republican. not my job to figure it out. but there were something like 100 amendments. >> aamendments are not an alternative. basically, they were the party of no in this contest. look, we have a problem. we have soaring costs. we have 48 million people uninsured. >> we still have that problem. >> but we have a plan going forward. >> but that's not the truth. it does incur costs. we've got to go back and take care of medicare, medicaid. we still have the same cost problems. >> first of all, we have a plan that is being phased in over the decade. you can't look a year and a half later and say, look, we haven't solved it. it's going to take a decade to implement everything. there is no doubt in my mind, going around to hospitals and doctors, they are busy working, solving the problem of readmissions and hospital infections, trying to figure out how to deliver better care to

the chronically ill. >> so why is it that in this plan -- once it's implemented, what curves the costs most dramatically? >> a whole variety of things. electronic records are going to give us information about what works and what doesn't. >> right. >> we have the institute -- patient outcomes institute that will look at what works and what doesn't. we have the reduced hospital infections and in my view, most importantly, doctors are no longer paid fee for services. that is paid money to do things. there are bundle payments, accountable care organizations to keep patients and keep costs lower. >> taken all of that together, will all of those adjustments, that seems a bit modest in this

sector and taking it down 3, 4%? >> well, as i said -- >> do you think all of these things will do that? >> here's what i would say. they are a good start. they are all pointing in the right direction. we can expand them and accelerate them and i'm going to read about that in the new york times but they are the platform on which we go forward. >> it's a start. but we're going to have to take more steps, right? >> yes, we're going to have to do more. >> what about medical malpractice insurance and the impact on doctors, not being able to not only just do their jobs but actually i've interviewed a lot of doctors that have lost their fire, lost the joy of the job, the duty and -- because of the malpractice. >> first of all, it is true that you've practiced a whole lifetime in medicine, your chances of being sued are

enormous, like 25%. theats unacceptable. the second thing, though, as a cost control measure, it's not all the data suggests that it's not very effective. >> it's 54 billion. that ain't nothing. >> it's $11 billion a year. >> $11 billion a year is pretty good. >> joe -- health care is 2.6 trillion. it's nothing. >> it's not nothing when you look at the cost of defensive medicine, when you look at the impact that it has on the doctors. we want the best and the brightest, right? >> i'm with you on the following fact. we need to reform the medical malpractice system. i pushed it very hard when i was inside the white house. i still believe it. but not for cost control. for the spirit of the doctors, we need to do it because it's a good way of incentivizing them to do the right thing. if you say, look, you follow the guidelines, you document that you follow the guidelines, we're going to presume that you're

independent unless something else goes wrong. that's very important to proving malpractice. >> you're going to curve the costs. >> it's going to improve quality. >> okay. >> what about -- >> yeah. >> what about obesity and how it plays into our health care costs? i mean, isn't -- aren't we missing -- >> first of all, i think you're absolutely right. 40 to 60% of health care costs are about behavior, obesity, exercise, and smoking. so a lot of that is within the control of people. but we shouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to control your diet and be -- and reduce your weight and i think we now all recognize this problem just like in the 60s we recognize the smoking problem. it's going to take us several decades to get our arms around it and reverse it. but we can reverse it. >> you mean -- >> no, what we need is converted

social action in many different spheres. >> you know what we need to do and you have it down here on paper. you just had a front row seat to an 18-month fight over health care. given that, given politics, given lobbyists, what's the reality that we will ever get done what needs to get done to curb costs and fix our system? >> again, i think the good news is, if you get outside of washington, there is a lot of action going on and i think we're going to get there. again, i urge everyone to keep your eye on the right date, which is 2020. it's going to take this decade to get it right. it doesn't help that everyone's sniping and saying, let's not implement the law or make it an uncertainty by having constitutional challenges. if you're on the outside and you're a hospital or you're a doctor or a business and there's all this uncertainty, you don't know whether to invest and reinvest your care because you don't know what the future is going to hold. we've got to get rid of the

uncertainty and that will accelerate the process. this political back fighting really harmful to getting our hands around this problem. and what would be best is to have the republicans and democrats to say, we have a problem. let's solve it and it's to pay doctors differently. that is the key. >> you know what they call him? >> what do they call him? >> i can divide fractions. when we come back, i want you to explain why you think that we're turning the corner on this because i think it's a hole systemic problem. >> i agree with you. it's a systemic problem but we recognize it as a society. >> okay. we'll do that when we come back. willy's weekend review when we come back. also, ken burns and lisa ling. [ man ] i got this citi thank you card

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peter's never told me what went on in iraq but it was bad enough that it rules our life. >> every day the crack of a bat, the shriek of a child can trigger paranoia, irrational

fears. >> it makes me nervous, waiting for something to happen. >> that was a special with lisa ling. airing today in honor of veterans day. joining us now is lisa ling along with documentary ken burns. this looks like a pretty incredible documentary. did you travel -- how wide is the cast in terms of these stories? >> this is one of the most important shows that i've ever done because we're talking about hundreds and thousands of young men and women who have been deployed on multiple tours of duty coming back with ptsd. and i've never seen what it looked like or felt like manifested in these veterans.

and they open their lives to us in such a pro found way and it was devastating. it was something that i've never seen before. we attended holistic retreats where they do yoga and meditation and what happened there was incredible. i saw these veterans call their spirits back in the most incredible way. there is no cure for ptsd but i think that they are learning these tools to better deal with what they've been fighting. >> and can you -- you'-- ken, ye a couple wars. >> the civil war and vietnam. >> and the war that we are in right now and the scars -- >> talking to lisa, this is huge. this has been going on for thousands of years. you can read the greek tragedies and men are coming back from war with exactly the same symptoms.

what is important on a day like this is for us to realize what our obligation is. not just to wave the flag in an abstract way but to see the demons and understand them and ask them to talk about what they've experienced. because, quite often, we train these 19-year-olds to become killer and say you're no longer a killer, get over it. >> and what they have seen is the worse that human beings do to one another and we ask them to make a soft landing back into society and don't pay attention. >> and there was an understanding after world war ii, after the civil war. there is an understanding, even after the korean war, as ugly as it gets, vietnam. you knew the guys that were coming back and they leave as gofts, come back as ghosts, and nobody's aware of what they've been through. >> and with the war in afghanistan, they are so

severely medicated and continue to go back to war on multiple tours and what i hope is that people will watch these programs so they can better understand what our veterans are dealing with. they are exposed to such devastation overseas and such paranoia and they come back and are expected to lead normal lives and it's impossible. >> well, it also gets to the ultimate phrase, the costs of war. we as a culture now think the cost of war -- or casualty, we read in the papers, the costs of war are going to extend out 10, 20, 30, 40, feet years, what ieds do to people, what brain concussions do to people. it's not going to go away. it emerges at the most ludicrous moments. >> we don't have a draft. >> 1% of the population. >> so no one when i travel around with the war four years

ago, you know somebody in iraq? you would get 2, 3%. you knew somebody like that. if this had been 1946, owe 47, every hand would go up. so they suffer alone. and part of what it should be about, remembering how to bring them back into our embrace. not the casual embrace and you hear about the 99% and 1% the fact all of us watching, we are the 99% and in a way it's not exactly positive. the 1% -- less than 1% are the men and women sack fising day in and day out in a war and families suffering so much at

home. kids that haven't seen their mom and dad in so long. >> when i was watching ken talk, i was deciding whether to bring this up. but it's a disparity problem and we are facing it in our society today. there's a massive disparity between ultra rich and poor and people who have to serve and people who don't have to serve. and the price that they are paying -- >> and the damage that impacts families on spouses and children is -- >> absolutely. >> -- is something that we don't pay attention to. >> the disparity is not an economic disparity. the fact is, men and women fighting are actually being paid fairly well. there are a lot of college-educated people out there fighting. the people fighting these wars right now, mika, it's not sort of a two-dimensional forest gump scene where you see the bombs

going overhead and people shivering that are only here because they had to. there are a lot of professionals there not just serving this country because it's the only thing that they can do. make no mistake of it, though, all of those people that are fighting are isolated from the 99% ever us that don't feel this touches our lives. >> and don't feel they have to. and that's where it feeds into the disparity. >> ken, is not that fair? >> we have a lot of -- >> are they coming out of harvard rotc? no. but i know a lot of men and women who are professionals that could have had pretty good jobs and decided they wanted to serve their country. >> i was just up at west point and it's filled with individuals like that. and, yes, you have the individuali individualism but you have a

society that is out of balance. maybe it's the disparity of wealth and maybe it's that we have the separate military class. all of what our job has to be is figuring out how to -- with regard to the military, spread the responsibility, spread the suffering and experience around. >> no doubt. no doubt. >> the show is "invisible wounds of war." lisa ling, thank you very much. as we go to break, we're going to play a clip from our 2007 and nora jones is singing. ♪

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you know, it's a bad day when it's a mistake and they downgrade the credit rating. >> i hate it when that happens. >> they did that in '84, '85. i don't remember. all hell broke loose in argentina. but melissa, it's happened again. >> that's right. s&p accidently downgraded -- they sent out an alert saying that they are downgrading their credit and said, oops, just kidding. it was a very rick perry moment for them and immediately took it back. the question now in the market is, how did this happen? are they thinking about doing it so they had that message set up? how could this possibly have happened? and now are their hands tied? could they not do that?

it just creates a real mess and these are the guys, remember, that missed the subprime crisis. they downgraded the u.s. debt. i think they need to review their systems. >> so they've got two, three right. they just had an oops moment. >> i don't know what you're talking but -- >> the great thing, melissa, there is not a lot of chaos going on in the whole europe economic economy. >> right. >> no one is worried so it's a perfect time to make a mistake like that. >> have a great weekend. willy's next.

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all right. we're going to wrap up this week with the united states congressman in a pizza joint. >> quiet for a minute. or i'm going to ask to you leave. >> number three, pizza party. >> i agree with you about that. that's not the problem. >> first term congressman joe walsh, republican of illinois, got together this week with constituents at a pizzeria uno in chicago for a little chat and chew. surely there's an explanation with the overresponse. >> i made the mistake of doing this on an empty stomach with a little too much coffee which got me fired up.

>> quiet for a minute. quiet for a minute. or i'm going to ask you to leave. >> number two, whatever this is -- ♪ >> you're either tripping right now on some really bad stuff or you're watching smiling older folks dressed in golf shirts emerge from a giant doll house to dance a corey graphed lady gaga. here is gaga's slightly darker version. take this, the super creative artistic lady, a dollhouse of chinese dancing people. and the number one story of the week -- >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone.

commerce, education and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. >> whoops. >> i would do away with the education, the -- commerce -- and let's see. i can't -- the third one, i can't. oops. >> the week in the 2012 presidenti presidential race was consumed by allegations made against herman cain. >> admit what you did. admit that you were inappropriate to people. >> and his response to them. >> i don't even know who this lady is. >> the democrat machine in america has brought forth a troubled woman to bring forth allegations. i'm not an expert on the way that the brain works. >> okay. commerce, education -- >> i'm glad i had my boots on because i sure stepped in it up

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call humana at 1-800-808-4003. fresher less processed foods introducing freshpet recipes so fresh the only preservative we use is the fridge freshpet fresh food for fido welcome back to "morning