we should respect or veterans on veterans day. this is not about politics, this is not even about whether i agree or not agree with the war that they may have fought or served in. they served. they protected us. when they come home, we must protect them with jobs and a life. happy veterans day. thanks for watching, i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. silence of the nittany lions. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews out in los angeles. leading off tonight, when silence isn't golden. the most compelling question surrounding the penn state sexual abuse scandal is why didn't anyone say anything? why didn't they do anything? late this afternoon, the university placed assistant coach

mike mcqueary on paid administrative leave. he's the graduate student who reported seeing jerry sandusky raping a child, but did not tell the police. the more we learn, the harder it is to believe that sandusky's alleged crimes were not known, or at least suspected, by a large circle at penn state and in the college football universe. among our guest tonight is a young man who was abused as a young boy, and knows why victims and the adults who should be protecting them remain silent. plus, is it possible that mitt's it? is there anyone left to challenge the candidate republicans hate to love, mitt romney? "the daily show with jon stewart" declared the race over, for example, last night. but just as some were about to close the books on the gop race, here comes a cbs news poll today that shows herman cain in the lead, with romney only tied, yes, tied with newt gingrich for second place. also, president obama today called on businesses to embrace american's veterans and help put them to work and make them leaders in the community. it's veterans day. why is it so hard for america's veterans to find jobs?

and i've been thinking a lot lately about jack kennedy with the release of my new book, "jack kennedy: elusive hero." now this question raised by stephen king, what if he hadn't been assassinated? king has written a novel that tries to answer that very question. finally, let me finish tonight with the disturbing feeling you get when authority figures let you down. we start with that very topic, the penn state sexual abuse scandal. ed rendell is the former governor of pennsylvania and now an msnbc political analyst. and patrick mcdonald was 12 years old when he was sexually abused by his scoutmaster. he's now a member of an organization called rape, abuse, and incest national network. he's also a columnist for the "daily beast." patrick, thank you so much for coming on tonight. we were talking beforehand, and i do salute you for your

openness about this troubling situation in our lives today. tell about what you learned as a victim. >> well, i mean, certainly, that's a very broad question in terms of what i learned as a victim and what other victims experience. >> why don't people tell on each other? why don't adults do their job as grown-ups and report horrible criminal behavior by other adults? >> well, there are usually a couple reasons for that. number one is they suspect that things are going on and they're not willing to be wrong in terms of challenging an abuser and removing a child from that environment. and really, who cares if you're wrong, if you make a mistake in terms of protecting a kid, but they're not necessarily willing to do that. or number two, they have some other motives in terms of being quiet about the abuse. you know, i can't speak to what may -- who may have benefited from being quiet at penn state. how mcqueary may have benefitted from a long-term career, how paterno may have benefitted from a long-term career by being quiet and protecting the organization, as well as protecting their friend.

and at the end of the day, you have an obligation, as a member, and chris, we talked about this earlier, as a member of the human race, forget your legal ligations. you have a responsibility to kids that are in your charge or that you witness, whether you're responsible for them or not, to protect them. by any and all means necessary. >> how did it feel as a young -- and we have tremendous memories of growing up, even in the early teens and before that. i remember a lot of what it was like to be that age. and i think you, obviously, do. what was it like back then to think about the adults who were covering up, who refused to come to your aid when they knew that something was up that was bad by this behavior by this scoutmaster? >> well, it certainly leads you to believe that you are completely alone in this battle. and you don't have any resources necessary to escape. you're not big enough to get away, you don't necessarily have the courage. and so you count on somebody else to protect you. you count on somebody else to watch your back. and when that doesn't happen,

then you're forced with believing, whether it's right or not, that you are completely and utterly alone in this world. and i would tell you, as an adult, you can kind of rationalize that away, but as a child, there is nothing more terrifying than knowing that what's about to happen to you, and that nobody is going to come to your defense. >> what do you make of this decision by penn state an hour ago to put on -- to put mike mcqueary, the guy who allegedly saw a child being raped, and that's the right word for it, and really, just think about how bad it could be, because that's how bad it was, apparently, he's on paid leave right now. what do you think of that? >> i think that penn state and everybody in the administration, first of all, should be incredibly ashamed of themselves. they clearly are not willing to progress forward, past this, and look at what kind of good things can come out of this. they're unwilling to do that. if they were, they would find every person that has a fingerprint on this cover-up, they would find them and they would fire them.

and that would be that. there would be no "we're going to put you on paid administrative leave." we're going to put you on unpaid administrative left. it would be, you knew this or you should have known this and you did nothing? you did not meet your moral obligations at all? go away. and until that happens, penn state is going to be looked at, almost as a laughingstock of an organization where they do not care whatsoever about kids. where they -- their entire organization is around that. and they choose to ignore it. >> pat, i want to get to the penn state situation with governor rendell in just a moment right after this. but i want you both to watch this. on abc this morning, george stephanopoulos interviewed the mother of victim number one in this case, the boy who was allegedly subjected to oral sex and fondling on at least 20 occasions by coach jerry sandusky. her voice was changed and her image obscured, the mother's, to protect her identity, obviously. let's listen to her. >> why do you think your son never told you? >> well, i think it was a lot of embarrassment. he was giving me hints to figure it out.

and i did eventually figure it out. >> and when you finally did have the chance to have a heart-to-heart with your son, years after the relationship first began, tell us about that. what happened? >> we had a discussion where, you know, i had said, you know, if, you know, maybe we should have, you know, come to this conclusion earlier, you should have told me, and he was like, well, i, you know -- he said, i didn't know what to do. i just didn't know what to do. and you just can't tell jerry no. >> governor, you're a penn state fan, as well as a penn fan, you went to penn. but i think i know a little bit about that feeling in happy valley up there, that almost religious sense of the important of paterno and that football program. what's your sense of this as this thing's really come open now? >> well, i think the university has to do what patrick says. they have to really wipe the slate clean and start anew. and they've got to emphasize that penn state is more than just a football program. under graham spanier's leadership, it's become one of

the great public universities in the country, one of the best academically, and it's more than just football. and that's a point that ought to be made. but they need to put all of this behind them. they need to understand the reality here is if in 2002, whether it's coach paterno, athletic director curley, mr. mcqueary, if someone had reported it to the police, there are at least five young men who wouldn't have had their lives alterably changed in what happened in 2003, '4, '5, '6, '7, and '8. it's a horrible tragedy. it's horrific. >> governor, it reminds me of my church, this sense of looking out for your adult colleagues takes precedent over taking responsibility for the safety, really, moral safety, physiological safety of people in your charge. >> it's absolutely true. it's that kind of circle the wagons and protect the institution or protect our guy. let me ask you a question, chris. did they protect jerry sandusky?

if they had turned jerry sandusky in in 2002, he would have a lot less criminal instances on his blotter. and he would have perhaps got an shorter jail sentence. right now if he's convicted, he may be in jail the rest of his life. did they help him? >> so are you with pat, pat muck dono -- mcdonough, who thinks they have to clean the slate? remove all vestiges of responsibility for this cover-up? >> absolutely. that's a statement, we're taking it seriously, we understand what was done. we understand that incredible harm was done to young people's lives. pat may corroborate this, but it's a pain, it's an emotional scarring that will probably exist your entire life. and in some cases, pat's obviously come back, but in some cases, you never regain a normal sense and a normal balance. penn state's got to make a statement that this is tremendously important to us, we take it seriously. we want to start anew. we're going to develop a whole new culture. >> you know what's so hard,

governor, and pat, and you're not part of this, pat, but governor rendell and i are part of it as pennsylvanians. it's so much good up against so much bad. it's just hard to deal with. graham spanier up there has done, as you said, done a wonderful job as president up there, with his music department, his fine arts department. all across the board, that school has become so good at turning out with these kids that don't come there with a lot of money. they're average kids with average income and parents. and this guy gives them a first-rate education. and this horror, you know, on top of that. it's just tragic. you know? >> there's no question. and chris, joe himself, i mean, obviously, this is a horrible black mark on his balance sheet. but joe paterno did a whole lot more than just football. he helped the university. he and his wife gave millions of dollars to the university. he helped virtually every charity, salvation army, you name it, in pennsylvania. he did a lot of good, and it's

tragic on a level that this may be what he winds up being remembered for. >> well, if i can add -- >> pat, get in here. >> if i can respond to that just for a minute. all the good that perhaps he's done in the past, myself and the hundreds of thousands if not millions of others that are like me, and the boys that were abused by the assistant coach, we really don't care. we really don't care. as far as we're concerned, every other good thing that he did was wiped out and was a sham, because what we really saw was the person that joe paterno is, comes across as somebody who's going to look out for his best interests and the best interests of his organization, aside from his obligation to everybody else. so i don't care to hear another sob story or sob comment about all the great things he did. we don't care about it. >> it's not a sob story. it's a realization that people are human beings. and none of us are perfect. what he did is horrific and not thinking about the kids and the kids that could potentially be injured is a tragedy. and it's nothing that he could ever make up for. but when you look at

individuals, you have to look at the totality of their lives. and again, does that wipe out a lot of the good that he did? sure it does, you're absolutely right. and again, there's no way of apologizing to the kids who came after, who would have been saved, had they reported this. >> yep. >> last word, patrick? >> you know, i guess the last thing that i'd say is, to the young man who actually came forward, and to those that were involved with this, when you're out there and you feel as if you are completely alone and you don't have any support, i would tell you that you have a tremendous amount of support. there are millions of us around. and if you feel lost -- >> what's the name of your group again? >> the name of the group i would talk to is rainn.org. an organization designed specifically to either prevent sexual abuse or to give people resources necessary to rebound from it. >> you're an honorable man, you're a great man, courageous guy. i'm so glad you came on to give

a firsthand account of when it's like to be a victim. and that is the paramount we have tonight. thank you. >> thanks, guys. >> governor rendell, you're a great man. thanks for coming on. coming up, back to politics. is there anyone left standing that can challenge mitt romney for the republican nominee? this is a revolting development for the conservatives in this country. a new cbs poll shows herman cain in the lead with romney tied with newt gingrich. as william benning said years ago, what a revoltin' development. i'm out here talking about my new book, "jack kennedy: elusive hero" is number three on "new york times" best seller look, fighting for the top. you're watching "hardball," on msnbc. thank you, sir. thank you, ma'am. you're welcome. gate 40, ma'am ? straight over that way. thank you. you're welcome.

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welcome back to "hardball." it's been a bad week for conservatives looking for a viable alternative to mitt romney. herman cain continued to be dogged, as we know, by allegations that he sexually harassed women, and rick perry made sure he'll go down in the annals of debate history thanks to his brain freeze the other night. and conservatives' new best hope, if you can believe it, and want to believe it, is newt gingrich. he's inching up in the polls. but can herman or newt or any other candidate beat mitt romney? this is an amazing development

politically. i don't think i can remember anything like this until going back to the republican fight in '64. the guys at nbc's first read wrote yesterday -- "mitt romney's path to the gop presidential nomination is now wide open. in fact, not since bob dole in 1996 has a candidate been such a clear front-runner right before the primaries and caucuses begin." well, two new polls out today show there is still a strong desire on the part of many republican conservatives to find someone else besides romney to be their nominee. the cbs poll shows romney -- look at this number here. romney tied for second with newt. herman cain continues to lead, but both he and romney, god, are down dramatically from last month. so romney's had as bad a time as cain, with cain losing a lot of ground with women. obviously. romney drops seven points. the mcclatchy/maris poll shows romney in the lead, followed closely by newt gingrich and herman cain.

is there a viable alternative to romney among the conservativeco? david corn is an msnbc political analyst and bureau chief for mother jones. tony, i've been thinking about you a lot. i do trust your conscience, you're more conservative than me on cultural and moral issues, maybe, although i'm not sure. when it comes to actual morality, i think we may be closer than you'd believe. here's my question. how can someone on the religious right, who basically takes their cues in politics from their religious beliefs and moral beliefs put out there something like herman cain with all these questions about him? let me just call them questions at this point. but enough of them to weigh you down a bit in terms of wanting to get a good verdict out of it? >> i think that's a fair question. and i think the question now that's being asked, conservatives are saying, are these allegations cooked up by these women, are they true? is herman cain, you know, a master chef of deception? and that's going to be a deciding factor for the outcome of his candidacy.

i think some look and see how front-runners have been kind of found some weakness or some allegation, they've been attacked. they're waiting to see if these things are true. if they are, i think people will leave herman cain very quickly. as you said, he's declined some in the polls, but that support has actually gone to newt gingrich. i mean, michele bachmann -- >> what do you make of that? newt gingrich, i'm not against people having multiple, serial marriages. i'm not in the business of justifying that. a lot of people i know are happily married for the second time, sometimes the third time. i bumped into an old friend of mine, he's on his fourth. i'm not here to judge. i'm not a minister or the man of the cloth. i don't think judge people myself. i think people should see happiness on earth in a reasonable way and in a moral way. now, newt gingrich, three times married, opus dei, right-wing catholic. are you okay with him? >> this issue came up when he toyed with running four years ago. he addressed those issues.

i think he has problems with women, conservative voters. i think they'll give somebody one pass, but i think he has a difficulty he may not be able to overcome. but this is what he's done in the debates. he has not been out front and won every debate, but every time he's said something, it's been pretty good. he's a pretty smart guy. and he has kind of been a senior statesman and he's giving brought some clarity to these debates. i think people are giving him a second look. >> i want to get to tony here. i find him fascinating. i do trust him. you go to the supermarket like i do occasionally for the family. you go and look in the grapes collection. and all the grapes are all rotten. so you don't buy any grapes that day. >> i buy bananas. >> what happens when you go to your republican candidates and they're all rotten this year. do you not buy any? >> i think that is a challenge. and that's why -- i'm not saying they're all rotten. there are actually some good candidates, but they've all had kind of a -- they've been out front. michele bachmann was out front for a while.

she was attacked and went down in the polls. rick perry was greatly anticipated to enter the race and he has underperformed. then you see herman cain. but you look, it's really interesting, chris. herman cain, despite these allegations and charges, is maintaining his lead. even in this poll out of iowa. he's dropped, but he's still ahead. it tells me that people are not ready to go to mitt romney and settle on him as the nominee. >> that's it. david, get in here. analytically, you're a man of the left, but this is so weird, a party that can't find someone they like. >> your analogy is that a piece of bruised fruit might do better than mitt romney. that may come at the end of the day. but to win over the long run, you need three things. i'll make it simple for rick perry here. you need money, organization, and seriousness. and none of these challengers that have come up, you know, as the non-mitt candidate have had all three, while mitt romney does. and there's one other thing i'd add to that. you need to be able to survive

scrutiny. and newt gingrich up to now has had the advantage of low expectations. the media hasn't gone and looked at the 17 organizations he's running -- he's run. one good example, the other night at the debate, on cnbc, they asked about $300,000 he was paid by, what was it, freddie or fannie. and you know, when they were trying to get political influence in washington to keep the regulators off their back. he said that they turned to him because he was a historian and he would give them historical lectures. i spoke to someone at fannie mae about that, and they were laughing about this. he wasn't telling the truth. no one's dug into a lot of these things, in 30 years of political controversies. so he may come up for a while, but he's going to fall down like everybody else, like we say see herman cain now. you may be left with mitt romney because there's nobody else in the barrel of apples. >> david, i agree with you. but i would just add one little component, a twist on what you said. i think the candidate has to be trustworthy. people have to trust them, in that what they say is what they do. and sometimes we're seeing

rhetoric, but a record that doesn't match the rhetoric. >> that is the mitt romney problem. >> yes, absolutely. >> here's herman cain yesterday, joking, and i think he was joking with a supporter about something that's not really funny, anita hill, the woman who accused clarence thomas of sexual harassment. let's listen to his fun here. >> did you hear the latest news today? anita hill is going to come -- [ laughter ] >> is she going to endorse me? >> herman cain said his comment was in no way supposed to be against anita hill. i don't know how to put these things in context anymore. look, i don't think her charges were anything but serious. serious as hell, and that situation was not fun when you were clarence thomas or anita hill. it was a dramatically bad situation for both parties. i think she was right, but i've got to tell you, there was nothing funny about it. i don't know why they think it's funny.

let me go back to david corn. who's going to be the republican nominee, if you had to put big money on it? >> well, i wouldn't put big money, but you've got to bet with mitt romney now. he's the only guy that's been able to make it this far without looking like a total fool. there is the trustworthiness question that tony has brought up, and he's going to have to continue to navigate that. but at the end of the day, he's not a piece of rotten fruit, which may be what determines who wins the the republican nominee. >> back to tony for a second. tony, could you live with him as your nominee? >> well, we're not there. >> the religious right people? >> we're not there yet. we're going to see where we win. sometimes you got to know when to hold them, when to fold them, and i'm holding right now. >> you think you might stay out of this race all together if it's him? >> no, not at all. what i'm saying, at this point in the process, we're still a long way from the convention and this being settled. and as long as there are one or more conservatives or two or more conservatives in this race, i'm not weighing in. >> do you wish huckabee was running?

>> i told mike this as we were talking, as he was making his decision. had he gotten in, i would have supported him from the very beginning. >> that's what i think. i think huckabee is missing -- >> maybe tony's hoping for rick santorum to get his turn? >> no, no. that's sarcasm. but there's four guys that should -- >> i'm serious, chris. >> let's go. there so many guys. the bench is better looking than the people in the field. anyway, thank you very much, david corn, and we all agree, the bench looks great right now. tony perkins, thanks for that. i think huckabee, i think mitch daniels, i think chris christie, i think jeb bush, i think haley barbour are all better as a group than the team on the field on the republican side. up next, jon stewart weighed in on the circus that is the republican field too. he's next in the side show. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] our nation's veterans are real-life heroes.

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i was just blown away. life's been good to me. i feel like one of the luckiest guys in the world. ♪ back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. first up, leader of the pack. by default, as we talked about

earlier, mitt romney's front-running status seems to be mostly a result of the surge and tank pattern, surge and tank is the phrase, pattern we're seeing from his opponents. and plenty of people are noticing. let's see how "the daily show" summed up romney's ongoing secret to success on last night's show. >> in our coverage of romney's clinching debate, we need not even show you highlights of romney. but merely the spontaneous combustion of his opponents. chief romney rival in the polls, herman cain. guys, in the middle of a scandal involving his treatment of women -- >> we didn't hear about it in the previous congress, because princess nancy sent it to committee and it stayed there. >> princess nancy. there's only three times you should ever use that term. with an actual female member of the royal family, a new mall maltese puppy you got, and oh, what's the third?

many republican faithful thought perry would be the answer to their prayers, but it turns out he was the answer to ours. >> well, that's for sure. could there be any greater gift to late-night comedy in the past few weeks than the republican race? the answer, no. and finally, i'm out on the west coast and last night i stopped by "the tonight show" with jay leno to discuss my new book. "jack kennedy: elusive hero." we had a great discussion on kennedy's appearance, and i shared with jay my discovery about jack's most famous line. let's hear it from the interview. >> jack kennedy's famous speech about ask not what you can do for your country, but in your book, you say he didn't actually write that. tell that story. >> he went to choate school, which is a private boarding school up in connecticut. and i had heard the rumor that maybe he got the ask not what you can do for your country from his headmaster. the speechwriter thought it might be true, but never could prove it. i went up there, they pulled

open a looseleaf book. it was the headmaster's daily sermon notes. it had the number of the hymns, and it said, the youth should always ask of its alma mater, not what he can do for them, but what he can do for her. it was a heroic memory and i'm bringing it back to life as best i can in my book. thanks again to jay for having me on. up next, the senate voted overwhelmingly for president obama's jobs bill for veterans. today's veterans day, by the way, of course, those who are off today know it. why is it so difficult for american's veterans coming back from iraq and afghanistan to find work here in their home country? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here. to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line.

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here's what's happening. penn state officials have put starnt coach mcqueary on administrative leave. president obama told he was shocked and sad are not by a helicopter contrash that killed mexico's interior minister and several other officials. eight employees are being disciplined for failing to uncover the madoff ponzi scheme. the all-clear has been given for the reopened virginia nuclear plant. italy's senate has approved the formation of an emergency government. and greece's new prime minister was sworn in and started forming a crisis cabinet to tackle serious economic challenges there. back to "hardball."

on this veterans day, let us commit ourselves to keep making sure that our veterans receive the care and benefits that they have earned, the opportunity they defend and deserve, and above all, let us welcome them home as what they are, an integral, essential part of our american family. welcome back to "hardball." that was, of course, president obama today at arlington national cemetery. returning veterans today, by the way, face a rough job market, as you might expect. and for veterans who have served since 9/11, the unemployment rate is 12.1%. and that, of course, is significantly higher than the national rate of unemployment of 9%. joining me now are two iraq war veterans, tammy duckworth, who was an assistant secretary in the department of veterans affairs, and is currently

running for congress out in illinois, and former congressman patrick murphy, who is currently running to be the attorney general of pennsylvania. thank you both for joining us. tammy, can you start off and give us your expertise now on the particular job requirements or availability of people coming back from the service that perhaps they're hiring people in this country don't understand? >> well, you know, i think that people don't realize how well-trained our veterans are and how hard they're willing to work. and in fact, our veterans are probably one of the few groups of people who guarantee the quality of their work with their lives. you know, when my crew chief gave me the keys to my blackhawk and said, hey, i checked the oil levels and twisted all the safety wires, he didn't just hand me the keys and walked away, he climbed in the back of that aircraft and guaranteed his work by going on that aircraft and going on that mission. i think any employer should be proud to hire someone who's willing to work that hard. >> is one of the things you have in the service the ability to learn? you're learning all the time. therefore you can learn

something new the next day. that learning skill that has to be drilled in. isn't that something the employer would look for? >> i think employers would absolutely look for that. and these folks, as we used to say in the army, force multipliers. they're not only going to be learning all the time, they're going to be leaders. they're going to bring up the productivity and the willingness of the rest of your workers to be creative and to troubleshoot and to problem solve. our veterans can really be someone who will bring your business up a notch. >> let me ask patrick murphy to join us right now. patrick, you've been in politics, you've been in congress, you've served the bucks county air for a while. let me ask you about the difference now, from how it was in the vietnam era. in the vietnam era, you had guys who were drafted all the time. everybody was eligible for the draft who were healthy. everybody was in it together. people knew people in the service, they were buddies in school, they sat next to them in school were getting drafted. today the military is a small part. president obama pointed out the small number of service members

that make up the population. let's listen to the president on the point, and you follow up here, how isolated that community is getting. >> this generation of service members, this 9/11 generation, has borne the burden of our security during a hard decade of sacrifice. our service men and women make up less than 1% of americans. but also more than 1 million military spouses and 2 million children, and millions more parents and relatives, all of whom have shared the strains of deployment and sacrifice on behalf of the country that we love. >> you know, i was thinking, patrick, my friend, it was like the amish. it was almost like the military had become a separate community. and i say that in the highest possible respect, from the everyday person who doesn't perhaps know a relative, hasn't got a spouse, doesn't hang out in the community where other service people live.

isn't that a big problem? >> it is a big problem, chris. and i agree with you. and i agree with president obama. there's not a lot of families in america that have skin in the game. it's not their sons and daughters. it's not their nieces and nephews. i will tell you, there are a new generation of military veterans that are trying to give back to their country. leaders like tammy duckworth, she is an incredible, inspirational leader. and she's going to be congresswoman from illinois. and i can't wait to see that happen. but i tell you, that's why it's great to see younger folks get in in politics and get in public service, and continue the military. you know, joe klein had a piece in "time" magazine, and he said it's pure public service. and your book, the jack kennedy book, on page 66, chris, you write, war forges you forever. and that's what jack kennedy said. and it just gives you a love of your country that you want to give back. you don't care about democrat or republican. you just want to do right by your brothers and sisters in

arms and also by your neighbors and your country. >> tammy, you said something -- the president actually said something, i think you can follow up on it today, which was so important. he didn't say, treat veterans like victims, do them a favor. he said the community leaders, local mayors and people like that, county commissioners, bring these people into your leadership force. these are natural leaders. urge them to join you in leadership. not to be supplicants, but to be leaders. i thought it was so bracing that he did that today. he didn't do the usual, give them a break. he said, bring them into the ranks of leadership. >> absolutely. and our military men and women, from the first day you show up at basic training, you're getting leadership training. you're ready to take the next step. you know, if your buddy falls or your sergeant falls, you're ready to step forward and pick up that rifle and carry on with the mission. and i think the president is absolutely right. chris, if you look back to world war ii and look at what the greatest generation did when they came home. they became our nation's leaders. they became the bob doles, the daniel inouyes, the jack kennedys that moved this country

forward and built the middle class. we have that opportunity again with this newest generation. they're going to lead this country back into strength and they're going to be the future of our nation. we just have to give them a shot at it. well said. thank you, tammy duckworth. good luck in your race. patrick, ten seconds. >> i would agree. it's not just going to happen because it should happen. it's going to happen because we pass bills like happened yesterday in the senate, the veterans jobs bill. they broke it down finally into smaller pieces, it passed 95-0, and it gives basically tax credits to businesses to hire these leaders, these military leaders back into the ranks of the employment. and there's almost 1 million veterans from iraq and afghanistan that are unemployed. we need to get it done, we need congress to act, and have a great veterans day, chris, and everyone. >> happy veterans day to everyone out there, to those who have served our country, thank you for your service if you're watching right now, and your families. and i mean it. up next, what if john f. kennedy had lived? we've got an interesting theory coming out from the great, brilliant steven king, who's

written a novel about what would have happened had he not been killed that day. stephen king, who can scare the bejesus out of you sometimes, is going to tell a story of mixed development. i'm not sure this is a good ending either. this is "hardball" on msnbc. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create

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we're back. my next guest is known for his scary and suspenseful works of fiction, but his latest book is quite a departure for him, a work of historical fiction, where the protagonist travels back in time to save president john f. kennedy. how would the country have been different if president kennedy had lived? stephen king's newest novel is out this week, it's called "11/22/63." stephen, thank you for joining us. i think there's interesting parallels between the times of november 22nd, 1963, and right now, when kennedy was driving to the airport atford worth that morning on the way to dallas, he was trying to figure out why dallas was so right wing, so ferociously right wing, while ft. worth was this calm, yellow dog democrat working

class town. how today do you see these parallels of this horrific right-wing anchor, crankiness or worse, and what it was like down there, the city he went into in dallas? >> well, you know, i've been looking at some youtube clips from 1962 and 1963, and the rhetoric then and the rhetoric now is virtually interchangeable. i saw a clip with a tell evangelist names billy james hargis, and it could be pat robertson or any tea partier today, and the hate is still around and the disaffection with politics in washington. and there's a real -- some of the clips from dallas at that time, there's one of adlai stevenson being bopped by a protester's sign, and ladybird johnson got spat upon by chamber of

commerce ladies, and that was in dallas. >> that morning he said, we're going into nut country today. are we in nut country today? >> well, i think so. you know, i originally had the idea for this book in 1971, and i'm really glad i didn't try th in 1971, i thought it was too close. too many of the actual real life players were still alive. jacqueline kennedy was still alive, and of course both of the kids. and so i kind of moth balled the idea and i started to think about it again in 2008 because there are a lot of parallels between john f. kennedy and barack obama. the age, they're both young politicians. they both spent a short time in the senate. they both have beautiful wives. they both have beautiful kids. and also there's been this sort of atmosphere of real hate and obstructionism that surrounded both men. so i began to think, history repeats itself, and at that point, i thought to myself, you know, i'd really like to write this book and one of the

somethings that i'd kind of like to say is, here is where hate will get you eventually. this is what happens. finally it's the barrel of a gun. >> yeah, but it was a communist sympathizer. that's one of the great ironies of history. lee harvey oswald, the most extraordinary lefts of our standards, who killed him. how do you put that together with the right wing mood of dall dallas? >> it's certainly a contrast between the mood. a lot of people in dallas assumed at the time that was somebody right wing or somebody associated with the cia or this that, and the other thing. but the fact is, oswald's communist tendencies were basically the jout growth of a disturbed mind. he was somebody who wanted to be famous. when he and marina flew back to the united states, well, they actually came back on a ship, but they flew from new jersey to ft. worth to be with lee's brother, robert.

he told marina all the things they were supposed to say when they were greeted at the airport by throngs of reporters. when nobody showed up, he was a really unhappy camper. >> let me ask you -- >> he was a -- >> look, i loved your novel, "pet cemetery." like everybody else, i can't get it out of me. i thank you for that. for months and years i couldn't get that horror story out of my head or soul. thank you for that, stephen king. >> you're more than welcome for that. >> this, people have read it, you say although you talk about history being intervened with with kennedy surviving that day and going on to a second term, it was like resurrection ain't so pretty, buddy, right? >> well, i talked a little bit with doris kearns goodwin and her husband, dick goodwin and talked with my wife who's a history major at the university of maine and said, well, look, suppose this didn't turn out for the best, suppose kennedy had

lived and things went south anyway. give me a scenario, a plausible sncenario for some of the thing that might have happened. what everybody sort of agreed on was that, again, you know, the parallel between barack obama and jack kennedy is neither one of them seemed to be able to find the levers that moved the house and the senate with any real consistency. and lyndon johnson was a master at that. when johnson succeeded to the vice presidency -- >> he had one other advantage. >> whether or not kennedy could have done it. there's also the question about what barack obama would be able to do assuming he is elected to a second term with mcconnell and boehner and the people who stand against him. >> you're a great -- >> let me ask you something, chris. >> i have to go. real quickly. what, stephen? >> i wanted to ask you if you thought that joe biden would be able to find those levers, if he were to become president later

on. >> we'll have to talk after this show. i think joe biden has great strengths that don't always become obvious. i think he's a very, very smart political leader who's in second place right now, maybe would be a good guy in first place. i think we're both going in the same direction. the book is called "11/22/63." thank you, stephen king. when we return, let me finish with advice for penn state as it tries to rebuild its reputation. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years.

[ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ '80s dance music plays ] [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. but when they come home, they don't want a parade; they want a job. the postal service employs more veterans than any other civilian employer. but congress is debating a bill that would force the postal service to fire tens of thousands of vets, close post offices, shut mail processing plants, and disrupt mail delivery. drastic cuts won't fix the postal service and aren't needed. tell your representative to vote "no" on house resolution 2309. it's time to deliver for our veterans -- and america.

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let me finish tonight with this. nothing is more disturbing than having someone in a position of moral authority who behaves in a lowly way. we are taught most of us to look up to people in authority -- church leaders, firefighters, police, those who teach us, to see them as being on a higher moral plain. their positions tell us to respect them, to be guided by them, to see them in a special moral rank, one well above us. then there comes those times in our lives when we're jolted by the g-force in someone in just such a position acting totally against the character their position suggests for them. i think the the new york police just going on trial for drug dealing and other corruption. my church has been the most dramatic example of men held high in our public consciousness who have turned out to be hidden

criminals, protected by their colleagues at the expense of the young boys they sexually exploited and psychologically wounded perhaps for life. why? why did grownups at penn state being the cover-up squad? why do men who must have been individually aghast at what they saw or heard not act out at that disgust? they must have learned it the instance they learned about it. perhaps it's gotten back to my own advice i give to graduates at colleges, if you don't enter a world like big-time college football or washington, d.c., politics with a solid moral grounding of what is right and what is wrong, you are unlikely to learn it in that arena. you must have have it walking in and fight never to lose, that basic human knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. as penn state says good-bye to joe paterno, joe pa as they have long cheered him on game days, i hope, don't you all, they will welcome back the basic values lost in the hu