from here. >> that's true. >> see that?! look at the upside. >> that is the upside. >> keli goff, thank you very much. that'll do it for us. i'm dylan ratigan. um next is "hardball with chris matthews," which begins right now. eye on newt. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. leading off tonight, neutron bomb. you've been hearing it here for a while here on "hardball," and now it's showing up on almost every poll. newt gingrich is serving in the polls. newt gingrich. to sit in lincoln's chair, and perhaps sleep in lincoln's bed. well, fact is, with cain fanning and perry paring, it's newt's position to become the next

anti-romney, and the gingrich that could steal christmas. will newt become the first republican to self-destruct, or the first one to put a real scare into mitt? he scares me. also, the spooky 1978 television interview with penn state's jerry sandusky talking about how much he loves children. we've got the ghastly video and the latest on this story. and how about the law on reporting crimes against children? does it need to be strengthened? plus, a new wrinkle in the herman cain alleged sexual predator story. sharon bialek's then-boyfriend backs her story that the two met cain in the late '90s and that she told him that cain grabbed her during an evening together. we'll ask the cain strategist whether cain can survive. and we'll ask p.j. o'roarke what he thinks of the

republicans running. we start with the search for newt gingrich. john harris is editor in chief of politico and david corn is washington bureau chief for "mother jones" magazine and an msnbc political analyst. to greats on the show. thank you, david, thank you, john. a big day for polls today, and none more stunning than this new cnn opinion research poll that shows that newt gingrich has jumped from 8% to 22% in less than a month. he's now neck and neck at the top with mitt romney while herman cain has dropped more than ten points. so basically, a switcheroo, john harris. cain has lost his place to newt. what's happening? >> well, it shows that there is a group of shoppers in the republican party, who are shopping for anybody but mitt romney. that's been the case for the past six months. we've seen it, various people go up and down, as cain is now facing some trouble in polls. a politico/george washington poll found his support eroding, especially as people learn more about the sexual harassment allegations. we've seen them shopping for somebody else. newt is clearly the beneficiary

of that. >> david corn, your thoughts on this? newt is generally considered to be persona non grata as far as somebody like the american president is concerned. it's unimaginable that he could be president of the united states, for those who know him. they all know he's smart, but not presidential. here's my question. is this what john's saying? it's not a question of picking a president. it's basically finding another way to say no to mitt romney? >> well, i'm still reeling from your image of newt in lincoln's bed. but we'll put that aside. >> he goets to sleep there if h gets the white house. >> i know. but i feel like we're in walmart, shoppers, we have a special on aisle 7. it's another non-mitt romney candidate. check it out. you know, listen, you know to win in politics, you still need money, organization, seriousness, and finally, to be able to survive scrutiny. newt gingrich cannot. he's as much as a flip-flopper as mitt romney is on cap and

trade, climate change, on mandates and the paul ryan budget plan. a lot of evangelicals say that he has one ex-wife too many. i mean, he is getting the -- he's the beneficiary of this anti-romney sentiment that has been conveyed to one candidate after another, but as soon as those candidates come into the spot, and under the glare of scrutiny, they all wither. he seems to be next in line for this. >> john harris, i don't like to get too personal here, but as far as public officials go, basically, people look at newt gingrich and they wonder, i think, like you wonder, i wonder, is there a statute of limitations on being newt gingrich? i mean, basically, he gets rid of the earlier marriages, get rid of the early religions, which are fair game. but at some point, is your identity changeable? can you stop being newt gingrich? a guy who was basically a troll in this town for years, basically an attack agent against jim wright, so he could get the speakership. he called everybody corrupt but

him. turns out now he's a lobbyist, a serial married guy. doesn't the religious right count anymore? doesn't the anti-washington fever count anymore? he's the ultimate washington insider, and now he's moving up in the polls. john? >> chris, a couple things i'd say about that. one, what david says might be true. and i happen to agree with it, they happen to be candidates looking for the flavor of the month or what have you. but you have to say, newt gingrich is a much more established, accomplished figure over a long period of time than these other people who have been the candidate of the month. that long history he has, as you point out, chris, has got pluses and a lot of minuses. i think what gingrich would need to do is put that long history in some kind of narrative of personal growth. you know, that's what nixon did in '68. there was a new nixon. a lot like the old nixon. maybe more extravagt comparison, but would be winston churchill, which had been on the scene for 40 years, seen as an

erratic, unreliable figure, but somebody who the man met the moment. i think gingrich would need to say, you know me, you know my pluses, you know my minuses, but you've seen growth and i'm somebody that's ready for this moment. >> can you see it, john? >> well, that would be a stretch, because i see in gingrich's career more continuity than growth. the gingrich that you see now doesn't to my eye look much different than the gingrich that sprang upon the scene in the 1980s. very attack driven, prone to disorganization. always interesting. but more surprises than most people want in a presidential nominee. that's the case he would need to make if he wants to bottle this polling. he'd need to say, look, this isn't just something effervescent, this is real, and i'm here to make a serious case that i should be president of the united states. >> john, you've talked to people who have worked for newt gingrich over the last few decades. they all say that he is really not prone to changing his basic

ways. he may change his family, may change his religion, but they always talk about how hard he is to handle, about his erratic streaks. he decide one point in his career, he's going to be statesman like, and the next point, he decides to be a mean, mad dog attack machine. he just can't really get into a consistent, steady place. and chris, you and i talked about this not too long ago. he has a very sharp mean streak that comes out again and again in politics. >> okay, but people aren't stupid, though. >> do americans want that in a president? >> people aren't stupid. i think they do try to find a reason, a safe way through this difficult time we're in. and that includes conservative republicans. they're trying to find a rational way away from obama. back to you, john. you said something really smart about growth. i do think that's what people look for. they look for it in president obama. most people who like obama, and i like him, are hoping that he will be able to demonstrate by next year growth. that there are things he may have done differently if he'd done them again, if he had a chance to do them again.

the second term will be better than the first, because of his maturity. that politics is, as archur schlessinger once said, a learning profession. you have to keep learning it and getting better at it. i want to go back to that. the two candidates that are doing the best right now in the polling are experienced. . that's mitt romney and newt gingrich. i think you're on to something. let's take a look at the new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. it went back and contacted over 100 republicans who were polled earlier this month to see how their views have changed. nah re-survey, as we're calling it, we're finding romney was up five among his group, cain was down just one point, but gingrich climbed five and perry dropped four. so, people are trying to gain experience on these candidates too, as well as looking for growth experience. so this is a learning process. what are the voters learning now that they're looking for? what do they want besides an alternative to mitt romney, at least? >> i think they're looking for somebody that can unite the conservative wing of the party and yet also be credible. michele bachmann was interesting

because of her conservative rhetoric that caused a lot of conservative hearts to go aflutter, but ultimately she didn't pass the credibility test, the plausibility test. so they're looking for somebody whose ideology resonates, but who seems ready to carry the party's banner a year from now, who passes that credibility threshold. >> well, here's a rational statement by herman cain, david, and i want you to react to this, because i know you will have a strong reaction. i'm not that impressed, except it does have a certain inner consistency. he's learned to talk like a typical republican conservative, not in that sort of both-way, wrong-way he likes to talk. here's cain saying he didn't believe in torture, but that watergate -- watergate -- there's a slip, but waterboarding was okay with him. bachmann agreed that waterboarding should be used, while ron paul and jon huntsman called it torture. here's cain's explanation. let's listen. >> i believe that following the

procedures that have been established by our military. i do not agree with torture, period. however, i will trust the judgment of our military leaders to determine what is torture and what is not torture. that is the critical consideration. >> mr. cain, of course you're familiar with the long-running debate we've had about whether waterboarding constitutes torture or is it an enhanced interrogation technique? >> i agree that it was an enhanced interrogation technique. >> and then you would support it as president? you would return to that policy? >> yes, i would return to that policy. i don't see it as torture. i see it as an enhanced interrogation technique. >> and taxes are enhanced revenue. anyway, president obama not surprisingly disagreed with cain. here he was responding to those waterboarding comments himself. >> waterboarding is torture. it's contrary to america's

traditions. it's contrary to our ideals. that's not who we are. that's not how we operate. we don't need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. and we did the right thing by ending that practice. >> there we go, david. and i have to tell you that people like colin powell have different views than people like dick cheney. i'm telling you, this the turning it over to the generals doesn't solve your problem. you can get a psychiatrist to say anything, you can get a general to say anything. what a stupid comment. >> well, cain got it exactly wrong, when he said he would go with what the military says. actually, the military handbook doesn't include waterboarding. it was the cia and other intelligence services that used these so-called enhanced interrogation techniques. david petraeus and others in the military have never used it. so it just really shows that he's not -- >> good for you. >> -- ready for prime-time, but yet he throws the red meat out. i'll take issue with what you

said a minute ago, chris. i don't think every republican voter is proceeding in a rational, let's find the guy who can win, procedure. i think a lot of them want to feel rage and they want to feel their candidates express their rage. i don't think that's all of them, but that's why they turned to herman cain, who clearly doesn't understand this issue, but they like what he says at the end of his little meandering speech. >> see what happens when i try to be generous. >> i'm sorry. i can't help you on that one. >> you just crush me. anyway, thank you. i think we're getting on to something. i think this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, generally, especially about his past behavior. thank you very much, john harris, what a pro. and thank you, david corn, you warm my heart when you tell me i'm too right-wing for you. anyway, coming up, penn state place its first football game without joe paterno on the sidelines. he's in the stands, actually. in over 60 years. and we've got a creepy video way back from 1987, in which jerry sandusky, him, talks about how much he likes children. hmm, the big question in state college and around the country, should the laws on reporting crimes, felonies against kids be

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new v8 v-fusion smoothie. could've had a v8. that was jay paterno, turns out, who was at the game on saturday, not his father. joe paterno was at home. the united states supreme court has agreed to hear the legal channels to president obama's health care reform law. they're giving it cert. at issue, the so-called mandate that everyone in america have health insurance. oral arguments will likely take place in february or march, leaving plenty of time for a decision in late june, just four months before election day. what a powerful decision that's coming. we'll be right back. look, every day we're using more and more energy.

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back to "hardball." newly uncovered video of a 1987 interview nbc news conducted with penn state assistant coach jerry sandusky takes a different tone now that we know sandusky has been charged with 40 counts of child sex abuse. and that's using the term lightly. here's a portion of that

interview where he describes how he started his charity, second mile, the organization where he would later meet his alleged victims. >> how did it all start? basically, because i'm a frustrated playground director, i guess. i enjoy being around children. i enjoy their enthusiasm. i just have a good time with them. >> ugh. anyway, one of the many controversial aspects of this case, of course, is the law protecting minors. when joe paterno heard that sandusky allegedly had anal sex with a boy, think about that, he told his bosses, but he never called the police. and apparently that satisfied his obligations under pennsylvania law, which begs the question -- are laws like pennsylvania's simply too lax when it comes to issues like this and reporting them to the police? now here the kathleen cain, a democratic candidate for attorney general in pennsylvania, the election is next year. she's prosecuted child sex abuse cases. and steven collins, an old friend of ours, a radio host based in philadelphia. let's start with kathleen.

i want to get the law down here. if you're witnessing what looks like, by any broad definition, statutory rape, rape, or sex involved by an adult with someone underage, isn't that in itself a felony and reportable, with or required to be reported? why are child cases in this category get exempted from a requirement under pennsylvania law? >> actually, is it is no. i mean, you can make the argument that it's obstruction of justice, because that's exactly what it is. but under pennsylvania law, the reporting requirement is is that you need to have the care of the child in your -- basically, in your hands. so what we're doing now is with the law, we're saying that now employees, you get to make the decision, number one, whether this constitutes a child sexual abuse case, and number two, they get to just pass it off, as they do in a football term, pass it off to your superior. we do need to change the laws in pennsylvania. >> okay, this is "hardball," kathleen, and i'm going to be a

little tough here. you mean to tell people in pennsylvania watching right now that if they see a guy having anal sex with a 8-year-old, an 8-year-old, in some gym, they aren't required by the law to report that, right now? they're not required by law to report that in pennsylvania? >> chris, as disgusting as it is, and as heinous as it is, you do not have an affirmative duty, unless you operate under the n mandated child reporting laws, you do not have a legal obligation to report that crime. now, obviously, almost every crime arises out of a moral obligation. i can't imagine any adult, any man, who would walk away from that child, witnessing an involuntary deviate sexual intercourse act -- >> of course it's involuntary, the kid's 8 years old, having sex -- i mean -- let's talk about this in terms of behavior. i said when you join an organization, you better join it with your own moral compass

established, because otherwise you'll get your morals from the organization, whose morals are aimed at protecting that organization. all these people, including that young guy, mcqueary, should have known day one, second one, i just saw something deeply wrong. i'm going to report it to the cops. i don't want to know what the coach thinks, what paterno might think, what my dad might think. go ahead. >> you hit that on the head. chris, these guys were not adults that were consenting, that were making out in the park. as you put it, it was a 10-year-old or an 8-year-old, whatever, it was a child. who was being plummeted by a monster. how do we need a law? mcqueary couldn't just say this was wrong and try to break that up and then go get law enforcement? first of all, that's a basic problem, but secondarily, where was the attorney general? the attorney general's office, the now governor of the state of

pennsylvania, investigated this in 2008, and didn't do anything! i don't understand that. i don't understand that. i, like most people in this country, respect penn state, think highly of their football program, the coach and all that. but we're not talking about that. we're talking about raping a child, and how they can kind of look the other way, all these years, 8, 10, 11 years has gone by, chris. >> yeah, you swell spoke. i love what you're saying. i completely agree. kathleen, you're up for attorney general. this is a moral issue as well. and you have a leadership position you're going for. let me ask you this. all those kids in pennsylvania, i was up there last year at the michigan game. i have to tell you, they're all working class kids. they're not rich kids. they're not snot-nosed ivy leaguers who had the world handed to them. they're regular kids with regular parents who probably had to borrow the money to have them go there. it was such a great thing, and now it's been tainted by people

who somehow thought they were helping penn state by covering up. >> and i agree with you. what bothers me is we have put the choice whether to report in the hands of a bureaucracy or an institution rather than with the trained law enforcement professionals that are out there. we need to change the law to make the reporting concurrent. the eyewitness, meaning mcque y mcqueary, as well as the administration, need to both report, that way they have accountability with each other and accountability with the public too. we demand that of them. it needs to be changed just from a reasonable amount of time to as soon as you can get to a phone. because what's reasonable to a layperson may be a week. what's reasonable to a child abuse prosecutor is immediate. because you know that that abuse, it wasn't the first time, and it certainly isn't going to be the last time. and the thoughts that were running through that child's head when mcqueary stepped in and that child felt that he was going to be saved and wasn't just sickens me.

it is time to change the law. and it's time to take it out of the hands of institutions, and back into law enforcement. >> steven, i want to get back to kathleen about this catholic church thing, that just resonates through this case, in the sense of treating penn state football, like it's your religion, which is not a reach, by the way, if we understand penn state, what it means of their football. your thoughts e. steven, what this teaches us about adult behavior and why people think protecting each other is somehow good for society, you know? >> i mean, this goes to the code in the police department that says, we'll look the other way, we're going to protect this institution. but joe paterno? i mean, he's the guy who comes through the house of the football player and says to the mom,on campus. i'm going to make sure he graduates, he studies, and he's protected! so what about the other kids? the at-risk kids, for the president of the university, for the athletic director, and yes, even for coach paterno, this was a colossal, colossal blunder.

and i mean, i think our faith in this particular institution is shaken. i hope it will pass, but they need to learn this important lesson. when you put the institution ahead of the children, it's what president obama said last night. if good people do nothing, evil will thrive. and that's what we see here. >> a tough question for kathleen, and by the way, i love for you to be on this show, as often as you like to have on, although we have murphy, my buddy, on as possible as well. now i'm going to ask you the toughest question i've asked you. should the statue of limitations be removed on such cases, the way that the cardinal -- the archbishop in philadelphia wants it removed? don't we need to get rid of the statue of limitations for matters like this? >> what's done now, the statue of limitations is now up to age 50. as a prosecutor, i would absolutely say that, you know, i know how children feel. i know that it takes them many, many years to get the courage, to get the inner strength, to grow larger, to make sure that

they can take -- physically protect themselves. and i think 50 is fair at that point. you also have to look at the constitutionality of someone being able to defend themselves. >> so what is it now? what's the statute now? >> if a child is under the age of 18 right now, the statute allows them to bring criminal charges up until their age of 50. >> what do you think it should be? >> i would like to see it taken away completely, like a murder statue -- this is no statute of limitations on murder, because they have killed that child inside. >> good luck with that one. e. steven collins, as always. kathleen kane, welcome to "hardball." up next, when rick perry had his brain freeze on last week's debate, the "saturday night live" crew couldn't have been happier. let's see what they did it next. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

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back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. first up, what was your first thought when last week's cnbc debate came to a close? well, after rick perry's brain freeze, perhaps it was something along the lines of "how many days until "saturday night live" does this?" well, let's take a look at their newest spoof of that gop face-off. >> before we start, i want to say, i know i've had some trouble in the last debates. but tonight i'm feeling good, i'm really going to nail it. there are three, three agencies i'd cut immediately. commerce, education, and um -- it got away from me. oops. >> what is the third department you'd cut? >> come on, man, i said oops. >> look, maria, can we just move on? i want to be president, but not like this. >> governor perry, we're still waiting for a third department.

>> hey! leave him alone! look, i'll tell you about the women. i'll tell you all the vivid details, and there are a lot. just leave this poor man alone! look at him! >> talk about the gift that keeps on giving. as i said up front tonight, perry just keeps on perrying. if you can't beat him, join him. it may be the most poorly timed brain fereeze ever, but the texs governor is certainly going all-out to make light of it. especially in the company of his opponents. let's take a look at a candid moment before the candidates hit the stage on that cbs debate on saturday. >> tonight if i need a lifeline, i'm just going to look to you, okay? >> i'll fill in the blanks. >> all right. so the doctor after that episode, well, the doc leaned over, he said, you know, that's happened to everybody. he said, most of us just haven't done it in front of 4 million

people. >> i said, i'm just trying to make him feel better. >> reminds him of bert parks, the old miss america moderator. >> it's like they were prepping for a tv game show. and he's not all about pizza. remember when herman cain dubbed the flavor of the month, he didn't miss a beat before touting exactly what flavor we're talking about, when it comes to herman cain, he says. >> there's a big difference between a flavor of the week that might melt and you get sick of it, because there's no substance, and haagen-dazs black walnut ice cream that takes good every day. >> and taking the ice cream talk a step further, in a recent interview with "gq" magazine, cain readily complied when asked to assign ice cream flavors to his 2012 components. ready for the results? according to him, mitt romney, vanilla. we all saw that one coming. rick perry, rocky road, no

mistaking that his debate performance played a role there. and michele bachmann, cain calls her tutti-frutti. it took him a while to get that last one out, because he knew that he was, quote, going to get in trouble. anyway, up next, herman cain's wife makes her campaign debut, defending her husband against allegations of sexual behavior or predator behavior. which gloria are you betting on? cain or allred? you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. campbell's healthy request soup is delicious, and earned this heart, for being heart healthy. ♪ feel the beat? it's amazing what soup can do. our machines help identify early stages of cancer, and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor, i'm sure i could take something positive away from that.

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i'm sue herrera with your cnbc market wrap. stocks coming off smartly off the lows of the day, but still finishing in the red. the dow jones industrial average giving up 74 points. the s&p 500 shedding 12. the the nasdaq losing 21 points. investors pretty much treading water today, resulting

in downright anemic volume levels for a non-holiday session. boeing, though, was one of the few movers after signing the biggest deal in the history of that country, an $18 billion order from emirates airways for 50 jets over a dozen year -- a half dozen years. ibm finished flat despite warren buffett telling cnbc today that berkshire hathaway has bought more than $10.5 billion worth of its stock this year. internet companies had a pretty good day after citigroup updated salesforce.com, citing increased confidence in its long-term earnings potential. and many of the retailers edged higher after lowe's reported better than expected earnings and a good profit outlook. that's it from cnbc, your first in business worldwide. now back to chris and "hardball." i can confirm that once she

returned, she was upset. she said that something had happened and that mr. cain had touched her in an inappropriate manner. she said she handled it and didn't want to talk about it any further. >> wow. welcome to "hardball." that was the ex-boyfriend, years ago, of herman cain's accuser, sharon bialek, who's -- she's represented by gloria allred. in an interview aired today on fox, herman cain's wife, who has until now has not been part of the campaign, defends him. will this help keep cain in the running? and the candidates were fierce on foreign policy this week, all hawks, and on iran, mitt romney made a clear contrast between himself and president obama. he said if the president is re-elected, lan will get a nuclear weapon. if he is elected, they won't. is this the way to win the election? will cain's strategy of putting out his family work? and will romney's tough talk on

iran help him win the nomination and the white house? john mcmahon and todd harris are our strategist. you're so fascinating on these subjects. this is all being played in your play penn, the republican party. do you think that herman cain at this point is a plausible nominee of the republican party? if he doesn't come out and clearly designate what he did wrong, contain it to some reasonable inappropriate behaor, if it occurred, and make clear he didn't do anything that really gets to character, if you will. if he doesn't do that, where's he stand? >> i don't see a path for herman cain to win the nomination. if there ever was one, which i think is an open question, the fact that he and his campaign have bungled this whoa thing so thoroughly -- >> unless it's all true. >> well, look, either way, if all of it is true, then there are serious problems -- >> would you have been able to handle it -- suppose he did what he's accused of doing, which is

basically being a predator. saying, if you want the job, lady, you've got to give me oral sex, if that's true, is there any way to get around that? >> no. and no campaign should try to spin your way out of that. >> so you're saying, basically, the cover-up had to be part of the strategy? >> i'm saying that they should have gotten in front of this story, if -- >> how do you get in front of that? >> because if it's not true -- >> if it is true, what do you do? >> if it is true, sinking you is the fact that you did it, not the -- >> fold the flags. there are some things that can't be defended, even by a superb adviser like yourself. i'm not kidding. it's serious business, obviously. >> he sounded a little bit tongue tied. >> now, he handled that incredibly well, because he told the truth. he said there are some things that are indefensible. >> the way you defend against it is you don't run for president. if you're the person who is being described by these women, and there isn't just one woman -- >> there's one that's been crystal clear. the other -- her attorney, i've been following this case, as we all have, her attorney suggests that the pattern of behavior is similar to the one that was

clear on her -- >> this is what you're going to see, i think, in the polls in the coming days. there are two groups of cain supporters. there are those who support him because they love him, want him to be president, and there are those who are -- >> who hate mitt romney? >> because they're kind of parked there, trying to figure out where the hell they want to go. the hard-core supporters who are with him because they love him, the fact that gloria allred is attacking cain is only going to embolden them -- >> why don't you lace that word "allred," with that sarcasm? has she ever done anything that was dishonest? >> i don't know if she has or -- >> why'd you do that to her? >> because she's aggressive -- >> half of them are because they don't like mitt romney. half of them are there because -- >> they don't like newt gingrich. >> they don't like newt gingrich. and the odd thing is, they chose herman cain because they were rejecting the rules that exist, and we all know them. herman cain is being held to the same standards as other candidates and he hasn't fallen completely off the field yet. that's an amazing thing in and

of itself. >> here's a part of gloria cain's interview with gloria van su susstenor. let's listen to the wife. >> to hear such graphic allegations and know that that would have been something that was totally disrespectful of her as a woman, and i know that's not the person he is. he totally respects women. i looked at, especially this last lady and the things that she said, and i'm thinking, he would have to have a split personality to do the things that she said. >> well, you never know. i mean, she's very good at defending her husband. >> very compelling. and that's why every single time when there's some kind of sex scandal in politics, everyone always rushes to bring the wife out and to -- >> but that's not always true.

some of these wives have not been as persuasive. i'm not sure that's true, is it? the governor of new jersey? >> it doesn't mean that they're always persuasive. everyone always rushes to bring them out. >> when you get to the point as a candidate that you're bringing your wife out to defend you against womanizing, the thing is coming apart and the wheels are coming off very, very quickly. the cain campaign obviously understands this. and this is the first wife that's ever been shocked, shocked to learn that her husband is out, perhaps, hitting on women. that her husband perhaps doesn't respect -- >> what do you mean first woman? >> i mean, you know, many -- >> are you that cynical? >> i'm pretty cynical -- >> it's not "hitting on," i hate that phrase. it's aggressively, physically, basically assaulting the women he's accused of doing. >> there have been accusations that he's done that. there have also been accusations of a little softer touch. but either way, it's a pattern, there was enough evidence -- >> it's using your authority to get sex. here's mitt romney on a rant at this week -- let's switch to something else. look at this iran thing. let's listen to what mitt romney had to say about iran and u.s.

policy. >> look. one thing you can do, and that is if we re-elect barack obama, iran will have a nuclear weapon. and if we elect mitt romney, if you elect me as the next president, they will not have a nuclear weapon. >> what does that mean, exactly? israel is the one talking about taking action, in their own self-defense, understandably so, and i'm not even sure i have a position on that one, rare enough. i don't always have a position. but there they are looking -- it's in their territory, it's a threat to them, not so much to us right now. how do they say something like that? that he's just going to, what, go to war with iran? is he talking about going to war? because i think that's what it might take? >> there's the rhetoric you use in the campaign and the reality of governing. >> another flip-flop coming? >> i think he's absolutely committed to what he just said. >> for the time being. >> people who are very hawkish on iran have a lot to take issue with in terms of the president's record. but the fact is -- here, i hope that iran never has a nuclear weapon. i hope that -- i hope that if we

are involved somehow in making sure that that doesn't happen, that none of us ever have any idea of what actually happened -- >> okay, i understand that, but sitting around and saying -- one of the guys said, i'm going to tell israel they can go ahead and do it, but say -- he just did it on television! marco rubio, you had a complaint about our coverage of marco rubio, and as a member of our team, you have an opportunity to respond? >> you had a good old time beating up marco. talking about what he did or didn't do. what was never mentioned and was troubling for me, "the miami herald" said "the washington post" story that you had talked about, itself, their words, has been embellished. time magazine said that "the post" story, was exaggerated. there was professor after professor who came out and said, these people don't have any understanding of what the exile experience actually means. none of that was reflected on this show when you were talking about it. and i'm very accustomed to

coming on here and -- >> i respect your loyalty to your client and your friend. let me tell you my view about this show. whether it's a democrat or republican, when they engage in what i call resume inflation, whether it's bloomenthal who said he had fought in vietnam, or your guy who said his family came here after castro, i like to straighten the record out. and i do exact a certain penalty for people who change facts to make it nicer for them. your thoughts now? >> a month before "the post" story came out, marco was asked point-blank, when did your family come here? and he said, they came before castro. if he's trying to embellish his record, he wasn't doing a very good job of it. he got the dates wrong, but there was no political calculation to make himself sound better. >> even though his website said he came here after castro took over. >> we changed that. >> hah! you changed it after you got caught. >> if you are a cuban expile, the way that it was written was accurate. it was always written with that

in mind when he became a national figure, we realized a lot of people don't understand this kind of language. we've got to change it. >> i do it -- i speak english and understand it. thank you very much. >> todd's back. >> by the way, we're not going to get any better on this. but you have your position and i have mine. >> next time on the show -- >> you were defending your client and i'm speaking the truth. >> -- the obama/kennedy airlift that never happened from africa, i would like to talk about that. >> i don't think we ever talked about that. >> we ought to. >> okay, fine. i never talked about it. i never talked about it, did it? >> you dshould do three shows o it. we've got a conservative to lighten things up. the hilarious conservative, p.j. o'roker. that is better than tod. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to.

ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ i'm speaking tonight at gettysburg college up in pennsylvania. and speaking of pennsylvania, john f. kennedy and richard nixon had their first debate,

when? in 1960? no, actually, it was in 1947 when they were both invited to mckeesport, pennsylvania, to face off as the two hottest prospects in that area's fre freshman members of congress. they took a sleeper car back to washington together that midnight. kennedy in the top bunk, nixon in the bottom bunk, and it's all in my new book, "jack kennedy: elusive hero." just like "north by northwest" with a different ending. it's in the bookstores. we'll be right back. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs.

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whether republicans will keep looking for mr. perfect. mr. anti romney. his latest book is holidays in heck. a former war correspondent experiences frightening vacation funds. out in bookstores right now. now that we have you, can you imagine him sleeping in lincoln's bed? can you imagine him in lincoln's chair? newt gingrich? >> on the debate, he was the smartest man in the room. i mean, he was stellar. head and shoulders above the rest of the candidacy. but it comes with a curse. gingrich. >> you have to take the man with the talk. herman cain is a guilt-free man. he's not catholic or jewish. he has no guilt. he said the other day, i've never done anything inappropriate. anything. ever. >> bless his heart. >> wouldn't you like to be like that?

>> yeah, i would. >> isn't he the guy next to you on the bar stool? >> am i right or am i wrong? >> lots of good ideas. at least you think so after a few drinks. >> 9-9-9. >> you add that up, it equals what i'm paying in taxes. >> he's too happy. never had a zit. never had a hangover. never had a bad day. the tea partiers don't know like that. >> because there aren't any. >> perry, he looked great before he lit the stage. he looked great, didn't he? >> he looked great. a little loud on the necktie. but texas politics is such a special thing. and they really are tough politicians, but you have to soak them in washington for a long time before they're presentable to the public outside.

>> you have to marinate them. >> you are to mare nate them. imagine this. a match book. all it said is democrat, veteran. >> there's a few candidates that many in the republican party thought should have ran. that list includes the great haley barbour, jeb bush, chris christie and mitch daniels. which would have been the happy leader of the gang? >> give me any one of them. i told haley, for a small ambassad ambassadorship, i will go around and translate for you. when you speak, i'll tell people what you say. >> what was your worst vacationing experience? >> my worst vacationing experience, skiing in ohio. >> you couldn't find a moupd mound. >> i was talking to the ski magazine editor. you're always doing beautiful

playses nobody can afford to go. let's do a thing about skiing in ohio. he said okay. i had to go do it. >> my wife went skiing in kuwait. you ever hear about that? an indoor ski resort. i once sat with the late tony snow. back in the drinking days. we listened to you together for two or three hours. you did parliament of whores. i never had more fun than listens to you. how can you keep your mood about politics today, when you have a stinky list of republican candidates, maybe not romney. just drink your way through it? >> absolutely. >> who wins the general election next november? >> romney if the economy is lousy, obama if it's coming back. >> and what's it going to be? >> it's going to be romney because the economy is not coming back. don't go long on the euro. >> i may disagree with you. we'll tell you by next november. when we return, let me finish with how the republican

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let me finish tonight with this. it's almost christmas time, and all the republican candidates are in the mood, if you will. here's michele bachmann.

self reliance means if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. neither shall he eat. well, for a kor chorus, consider the booing when a soldier identified himself as being gay. or if some 0-year-old in a coma didn't buy life insurance, he should die. or when rick perry talked about all the executions he's approved and that audience cheered like hell or when herman cain kissed off waterboarding okay with him. it's equally okay with him. is that putting alligators in a mote on our side of that wall would be just what the doctor ordered. all these calls for action have a certain ring to them. don't you hi? pain, punishment, misery, sometimes death. often the same reproach to people people don't like. border cr