tv The Last Word MSNBC November 15, 2011 1:00am-2:00am EST
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the milwaukee journal sentinel said it gave governor walker a week and a half head start on campaign fund-raising to fend off the recall effort, which is nice. also newt gingrich was the forgotten candidate until rick perry and herman cain had trouble remembering. >> can you believe we have a guy running for president talking about sissy pizzas. >> i forgot and then i was reminded and then i remembered and then i forgot having remembered. >> gloria allred is here to help him remember. >> i'm gloria allred. one of our witnesses agreed to come forward. >> the boyfriend backs her story.
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>> this is the man we met so many years earlier. >> she told him that cain grabbed her. >> herman cain held his own news conference and stated about sharns quote, i don't know who this woman is. >> i don't even know who this woman is. >> we look forward to mr. cain's response. >> there are other things that herman cain can't remember. >> do you agrow with president obama on libya or not? okay. libya -- >> this goes on for five minutes like this. >> got all of this stuff twirling around in my head. >> got a lot of stuff twirling around in my head. no, that's a different one. cain has fallen from front runnerer this third. time to make way for newt. >> the neutron bomb. >> now we are talking about the rise of newt gingrich. >> republicans liking inning in
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on their pizza pie. >> newt gingrich is surging in the polls. >> would you care to evaluate governor romney's ability to think outside of the box? >> no. >> if willard mitt romney could be any ice cream he would be ba nan that nut, cookies and cream, coconut penitentiary tash pistachio with rainbow sprinkles on top. >> last night herman cain's wife gloria taped her first public appearance since her husband announced his presidential cab dascy. she had this reaction to the allegation from sharon beeial bialek of what they did in his car. >> to hear such graphic allegations and know that that would have been something that
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was totally disrespectful of her, as a woman. and i know that's not the person he is. he totally respects women. >> today sharon bialek's boyfriend at the time victor zuckerman appeared at a news conference to confirm the account that she told him about the alleged incident after it happened. >> she had indicated in previous interviews her account of what happened in d.c. i can confirm that when she returned she was upset. she said that something had happened and that mr. cain had touched her in an inappropriate manner. she said she handled it and didn't want to talk about it any further. i respected her request and this issue was never brought up until recently. >> tonight in milwaukee, herman cain said this.
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>> so, they are going to have to decide whether or not they want to believe these trumped up accusations or believe me. my wife is 200% behind me. not just because she wants to stand by her man, she knows me and that's what the statement reflects. >> reporter: joining me now are dr. victor zuckerman, the former boyfriend of sharon bialek who accused herman cain of sexual harassment. and gloria allred. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> you backed up her statement that when he returned home after a all of this she told you all about itshe returned home after a all of this she told you all about it? that's correct. >> doctor, did she go in to graphic detail with you that we heard when she made her public announcement about this? >> no.
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in fact, all she would say is that something happened. it was inappropriate and she didn't want to talk about it. sharon's a strong woman. she said she handled it. at that point, when she told me don't discuss it anymore. it's been dropped and only came up recently. >> let's listen to how sharon bialek actually described what happened in herman cain's car in 1997. >> at that time, i had on a black pleated skirt, suit jacket and a blouse. he had on a suit, with his shirt open. but instead of going in to the offices, he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg under my skirt and reached for my genitals. he also grabbed my head and brought it toward his crotch. i was very, very surprised and very shocked. i said, what are you doing? you know i have a boyfriend. this isn't what i came here for.
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mr. cain said, you want a job, right? i asked him to stop, and he did. i asked him to take me back to my hotel, which he did. >> dr. zuckerman, how did you feel when you heard those details? >> well, most of those details were never shared with me immediately so many years ago. so, i was, as surprised with the details as others. >> and you said in your statement today that you and sharon had met mr. cain. that sharon had introduced you to mr. cain. you were at a big event that that had a smaller after party and in that after party you had conversations with him that you still remember. >> very much so. the part that was most interesting for me is that he was -- his persona was warm, kind, endearing and it brought you in.
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specifically for me was his comment about him making a gospel album. and i just thought, boy, he can do all of these other things and he can sing, too. it always stuck with me. years later i had come to find he had made "sunday morning" which was in 199 6 and this was 1997. so it is something that i always remembered that puts me there, period. >> do you think it is possible that herman cain did forget meeting sharon bialek and forge this incident in the car. >> i can't speak for him. >> i think it is unlikely, however. >> go ahead, gloria. >> i think it is highly unlikely because it is not the only occasion she was speaking with sharon. by the way, he was speaking with sharon and dr. zuckerman at the dinner after the after party which is why he asked them to come upstairs to the smaller group.
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sharon alleges and told dr. zuckerman at the time that she had spoken to herman cain a number of times that week at the convention prior to that night. i think that dr. zuckerman's points are very important because not only does that totally contradict what herman cain said about not to knowing sharon bialek but it also shows that she indicated -- that he was very nice that night and that's why dr. zuckerman suggested that she go to meet with herman cain in washington because he thought that herman cain was the kind of man who would help her to find an employment opportunity in a million years he never thought and she never thought that herman cain would do what sharon alleges ultimately was done to her, the improper sexual advances, which she feels was like a sexual assault in that car.
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>> if i can also comment on the fact that when we called -- let me take that back. when i suggested that sharon call mr. cain to see if he could help her with employment, that employment was set up fairly rapidly. i can't imagine that someone just calling off the street that shook his hand at a thousand-person dinner could call his office and get a meeting with him to get her a job. >> gloria i would like you to respond directly to what sharon said in the taped interview that she had last night. she said she heard what sharon had to say than is not the herman cain she knows. >> it probably isn't the the herman cain she knows. >> it probably isn't the herman cain she knows. what wife wants to think that their husband is making inappropriate conduct and advances to women in the work place.
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obviously his wife gloria is not at his work place and was not there the night that sharon alleges this happens and she's been married to him more than 40 years. i'm sure she wants to think the best of him. but to trot her out and use her as a cover is really rather sad and i'm sure in her heart she wouldn't want to believe it. maybe she doesn't believe it. i don't know. we have the allegations of four women and my client doesn't even know the other three women saying that he sexually harassed them against the word of one man, herman cain, who has every motive to deny this. >> attorney gloria allred and dr. sic tore zuckerman, thank you both for joining me tonight. coming up, sandusky speaks. an nbc news exclusive. the man accused of raping at least eight young boys. jerry sandusky at the center of
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cut immediately, commerce, education and -- uh -- what's the third one there? it's got away from me. oops. >> but, seriously, governor, what is the third department you would cut? >> come on, man, i said oops. >> a new poll out today shows herman cain's candidacy sinking fast, and the big benefactor from cain's collapse in the
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polls is former disgraced speaker of the house and washington lobbyist newt gingrich. a new cnn poll shows gingrich in a tie for the top spot with mitt romney. romney at 24. gingrich at 22 with herman cain support plummeting from 25% last month to 14% this month, which is good enough for third place in this field and rick perry is at 12%. gingrich reacted to his sudden surge in popularity with republican voters. >> it's better than when i was at 4. look, this is the most volatile race of my lifetime. who knows what the polls will be two months from now. i'm not going to tell you i'm on the way, but i have to say i'm very humbled that millions of people watch the debates and the general conclusion was in fact that i had real substance and solutions that they prefer my approach of being positive to
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the kind of consultant-driven negativities that. >> thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> my pleasure. >> republican voters really don't like newt gingrich. isn't this -- mitt romney, excuse me. isn't in the final proof. these unknown candidates like cain get in to trouble and you would expect them to gravitate to the safe bet, the front runner, the leader and they don't. they find some other iceberg to jump to and now it's gingrich. >> look, i think that mitt romney seems to have a ceiling in all of these polls. we have seen it reportedly. ed could speak it to a bit better than i could but conservatives don't like mitt romney. there are some conservatives who are certainly conservative
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leaders who are grudgingly starting to see that mitt romney is likely to be the nominee and we will have to accept it at some point they are not going willingly and the more you see him look inevitable, the likely it is that iowa caucus goers will nominate someone they think should be a nominee because it is a cross shot across romney's bow. >> at what point does this the failure to attract by mitt romney start to lend some doubt to whether he can really get this nomination? >> let me restate it a little bit. i very early on saw both in focus groups and the data a feeling that the voters, the republican voter and this may be revisionist history to some extent but the republican voters didn't want to fall prey to picking the next in line. that's what created this temporary ceiling for mitt romney. it wasn't that they didn't like him or had strong feelings negatively about him, his
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ideology, whether he was conservative or moderate, had nothing to do quite frankly with mormonism. it had nothing to do they felt in 2008, they picked the next one in line and that didn't work out well. they weren't going to fall in to that trap this time. it is interesting h the poll we released today with politico shows him with 25% of the vote but we asked two other questions that were very interesting. one was a what was your second choice if your candidate didn't win or wasn't an option and he got another 20% on that, going up to 45%. we asked who do you think will win the nomination and he was at 48%. cain was at 22. perry was at 6 and even though he was surging in our own polls, if you looked atting inning in he was only at 3%. so i think the 25% is more of a floor for romney than a ceiling.
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and the ceiling is more in that 48, 49% range. but he is not going to get to that until you get in to the real campaign, which is about 52 days away. >> maggie in the politico poll that ed did for you, there is the bad news for president obama that he is tied 43-43 with a generic republican, obama versus generic candidate 43, 43. as soon as you put in a name it is better for the president. he leads romney 6 points. leads cain by 9 points in this. and so, is -- should the democrats and president obama be eager to have that individual opponent identified so that they can more pointedly campaign against him, or does this dragging out of the republican nomination process help the president?
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>> i think the feeling among democrats and among people close to the campaign, you would normally think a longer the race would drag out the better for the president. they would like to drag it out as long as possible. that being said, what they are not seeing in the contest and debates, these matchups where they are on stage, mitt romney escapes without anyone laying a glove on him. every single time. we saw it on the debate hosted by cbs and the national journal. so the democrats feel they have to jump in and start to define mitt romney. they need to have an actual opponent to fire up their base, to fire up their donor and voting base. they need to have somebody -- people who they are appealing to realize this is who we are facing, this is what it looks like and mitt romney is seen as the best general election candidate other than jon huntsman, who's obviously not doing very well right now. if he catches on there is a possibility but it is an outlying chance right now. they need to make mitt romney
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seem as extreme and scary as possible, and you are starting to see that. >> ed, your poll, as many others have found, a high number of people think the country is on the wrong track. 75% in your poll. that's normally a bad indicator for the president, but can both sides try to exploit that number? can the president exploit the wrong track number by shifting blame on the republican house representatives? >> he can attempt to but one of the fallacies in their attempt to blame congress and i think earl earlier you were talking about the disapproval of congress or they were talking about the disapproval of congress being at 82%, which is what our poll found. only 11% approving of congress, but the second half 0 to that equation is we asked a question, do you approve of your congressman and by a 46 to 38 margin they in fact approved of their congressman and it was
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higher in the tossup states, electoral state and republican areas than the democratic areas. so running against the institution isn't going to necessarily redirect that blame. i think what we did see is not only on job approval for the president, but if you look at the job approval on the economy and jobs, he also didn't approve. he's going to be looking for and need person to point the blame at. >> thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you. coming up, herman cain's kryptonite. we have found it and we will show you it in the "rewrite" and jerry sandusky breaks his silence. he talks exclusively with bob costas tonight. he will be here with more on his sandusky interview. pantene nature fusion shampoo. its pro-v formula makes weak, brittle hair
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correspondent bob costas. >> mr. sandusky, there's a 40-count indictment. the grand jury report contains specific detail. there are multiple accusers, multiple eyewitnesss to various aspects of the abuse. a reasonable person says where there's this much smoke there must be plenty of fire. what do you say? >> i say i am innocent of those charges. >> innocent. completely innocent and falsely accused in every aspect? >> well, i could say that, you know, i have done some of those things. i have horsed around with kids. i have showered after workouts. i have hugged them and i have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact. >> sandusky flatly denied the allegations by then graduate
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assistant mike mcqueary that he witnessed sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the penn state showers. join meganow nbc's bob costas. thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> bob, what is the version of that shower scene that sandusky gives and how is it different from what we understand to be the mcqueary version? >> it is massively different. he says he and the young boy were horsing around, snapping towels. that the boy turned on all of the shower heads and was sliding around the shower floor, as if it was some kind of waterslide but that nothing even remotely resembling a rape, and that's what mcqueary says he saw. he saw a forcible rape, not horsing around, not inappropriate touching. in the grand jury report, he says he witnessed a rape. and sandusky flatly denies that and when asked what motive mcqueary would have to possibly
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fabricate such a horrific thing, his answer is you would have to ask him. >> and what are the things in this story that you heard tonight from sandusky that you think possibly do not line up with what we already think we know? >> most of it wouldn't line up with what most people seem to have concluded. he says, and i apologize for the graphic nature of this, but i felt we had to get it out in an unambiguous way. he said he never touched any of these boys genitals. he said he was never involved in oral sex. he said certainly he never raped anyone. he says the worst that he did, was he tickled them. he may have put a hand on a leg. he showered with them, which he says he now regrets. if there was any incidental contact with private areas it was accidental. he had no sexual intent. i asked if he considered himself
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a pedophile and he said absolutely no and i asked if he was attracted to under aged boys. he said i enjoy the company of young people but sexually attracted to them, no. in a less pertinent area, i asked if he believed that joe paterno had any knowledge of any objectional activity or ail giefgs objectional activity from sandusky prior to 2002 when mcqueary reported the shower incident and he said he couldn't be 100% sure but he believed paterno did not and sandusky's attorney also said that he did not believe that penn state was involved in a massive cover-up. people may be skeptical of that but that is what amendola told me. >> did he have any conversations with joe paterno about this? did paterno speak to him about this? >> i asked sandusky and he said no.
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that paterno never asked about his behavior or expressed disapproval or suggested counseling, never treated them when their paths crossed as some sort of pariah. he said we weren't perhaps as close as i wasn't coaching and didn't socialize but when he saw me, which i take was fairly frequently, there were no expressions of disapproval. >> mike mcqueary put out an e-mail that we have obtained, other news organization have obtained to friends explaining himself. i did the right thing. you guys know me. the truth is not out there fully. i didn't just turn and run. i made sure it stopped. i had to make quick, tough decisions. >> yeah, the way i understand that, lawrence, he's saying that once he stumbled upon this scene, as he describes it, either his mere presence or maybe he said hey or something that got sandusky to stop.
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he didn't physically restrain sandusky or hold him for authorities or punch him in the nose as you might expect somebody might have. who knows how someone would react in a shocking situation but he didn't do those things but apparently is satisfied that simply his presence stopped the incident. he then went down the hallway to his own office in the same facility and called his father and asked him what to do. his father said he should speak to paterno. it was a friday night. he went to paterno's house the next morning and told pa tern known and on sunday paterno told the athletic director. child protective services and law enforcement were not notified and there were reason to believe there were subsequent objectional dintss with boys that could have been prevented if more affirmative action had been taken at the time.
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>> your assessment of how this could be allowed to fester, uninvestigated. it seems unexamined to the extent it should have been for so long. >> you know, in many ways, what went on for the better part of a half century at happy valley is the opposite of the stereotype of the football program, the athletic program out of control. at so many big universities. in fact they graduated their players. their players were by and large legitimate players. no program is perfect but close to that. they didn't routinely recruit criminals and thugs. paterno gave millions of dollars though the university and raise millions more. he was a positive influence on the lives of hundreds of players and a benign presence on campus. so you might think that everything was fine, but even in such a benign circumstance, joe
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paterno became, in many ways, the most powerful, revered man in the state of pennsylvania. and the football program was the signature of a truly great university. the football program helped the university grow. it is an outstand thing research university and the image of that football program is very important to everyone in and around penn state. so, could there have been, in fact almost certainly there was, something that took hold -- it may not have taken hold for the same reasons it did at football factories where there were different values or no values at play, but did something take hold where the idea of protecting an image was more important than doing what most of us would say is the right thing? i think you could make a good case of that is what happened. >> joining us is ed rendell. this is surprising to me that a lawyer would allow a client in a situation like this to do this interview with bob.
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what's your reaction to it? >> i don't think he gains very much i guess the lawyer is trying to influence the court of public opinion. if you read the indictment, lawrence. what he says is a joke. there were two janitors who claim and testified before the grand jury they witnessed him having ofrl sex on a young boy. it doesn't add up and make sense. i don't understand what the lawyer is doing, but i don't understand what mr. sandusky is doing. the point that bob made, penn state is a great university. it's more than a football program. it's one of the three or four best public universities in the country. and was there some sort of agreement to try to cover it up? it appears so, but that's what we will have to look at as the facts unfold. >> ed rendell, thank you for your invaluable perspective on this. and bob costas, thank you very much for your exclusive report on this. >> you are welcome, lawrence. the whole thing will be soon on-line. there is more. we included as much as we could but there is more. >> thank you.
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>> you got it. herman cain's kryptonite. we found it and we will show it to you in the "rewrite." congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon.
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[ male announcer ] truth is, most sinus formulas don't treat a cough. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus sinus liquid gels fights sinus symptoms plus cough. you're good. [ male announcer ] thanks. that's the cold truth! mr cain, as more women come forward you have repeatedly changed your story. how do you explain your inconsistent responses to these allegations? >> there's been no inconsistency. my story has never changed. to recap, i forgot. and then i was reminded. and then i remembered. and then i forgot having remembered. and then pizza break. one thing is for every woman who has come forward, there are two with who have not. beauty products that will change your life... for the first time ever... a toothpaste. crest 3d white. if beauty editors notice, who else will?
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sweet & salty nut bars... they're made from whole roasted nuts and dipped in creamy peanut butter, making your craving for a sweet & salty bar irresistible, by nature valley. in tonight's rewrite, we have found herman cain's kryptonite. no, it has nothing to do with the women who have accused him of sexual harassment. super herman just shrugs them off and no his kryptonite is not tough questions from the media. herman cain has shown us he knows exactly how to handle the tough questions. >> and when they asked me who the you becky, becky, becky stan stan, i will say, i don't know. do you know? this is why i have proposed a bold plan of 9-9-9. victory is not clearly defined.
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as president, i will make sure the mission is clear and the definition of victory is clear and that does not exist right now. a dollar must be a dollar when we wake up in the morning. like 60 minutes is in an hour. a dollar is a dollar. it is fair. the reason it is fair because of the definition in webster which says everyone is treated the same. because that's the person herman cain is. to take my message directly to the people. the american people deserve better than someone being tried in a court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations. i have never acted inappropriately with anyone, period. the fact is these anonymous allegations are false and now the democrat machine in america has brought forth a troubled
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woman to make false accusations. >> that is the herman cain america has come to know and some truly lost republican voters have come to love. this, was herman cain today trying to answer a very simple question on whether he agreed with president obama on libya. >> do you agree with president obama on libya or not? >> okay. libya. president obama support ed the uprising, correct? president obama called for the removal of gadhafi. just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing before i say yes i agree and i know i didn't i agree. di not agree with the way he handled it for the following
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reasons -- no, that's a difference one. i got to go back and see. got all of this twirling around in my head. specifically, what are you asking me do i agree or not disagree with obama? >> that brain freeze lasted 11 full seconds longer than the previous record holder for republican brain freezes set just last week by rick perry. >> commerce and let's see, i can't. the third the one i can't. sorry. oops. >> now, remember, the perry brain freeze, which was by far the most wildly entertaining moment in presidential debate
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history occurred under the enormously crushing pressure of a nationally televised presidential debate. herman cain managed to break that record in a cozy sit down with the editorial board of the "milwaukee journal sent nal." not a group known for intimidating presidential candidates. the political world has spent the day wondering how could it happen? how shoot from the hip herman could fire blanks for one minute and 4 seconds. you could see there was a problem before the questioner finished his question. >> so you agree with president obama on libya or not? >> a red necktie? i have never seen herman cain in a red necktie. where was his yellow tie? >> you becky, becky, becky stan stan. >> 9-9-9. victory is not clearly defined a
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dollar must be a dollar. the reason it is fair because of the definition in webster because that's the person herman cain is. the american people deserve better, i have never acted inappropriately with anyone. period. the democrat machine in america -- >> look at how sharp the guy is in the yellow tie. looks and sounds sharp. look at what the red tie did to the man. okay. libya. >> i don't know. i smell a dirty trick here. who gave him that red tie? the democrat machine? i didn't think the guy owned a red tie. that yellow tie has been everywhere. someone must have tricked him in to wearing that red tie. let's run a clip of rick perry
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again. let's look at the tie he was wearing. >> commerce and let's see, i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. >> omg! okay. what color necktie does that robot romney wear, the guy who hasn't had a single brain freeze this season? look at that. romney, oh, okay. he really knows how to play this game. he won't go near a red tie. that tie right there makes him suspect number one on who planted the red tie in herman cain's wardrobe. here's the best herman cain could do today when he was asked whether his response to the libya question shows he does not have a deep understanding of foreign policy. >> do you think the lib yap comment reinforce you don't have a thorough understanding of
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foreign policy? >> 9-9-9. >> the poor man is never going to make any sense until the gets rid of that red tie. james carville one of the leaders of bill clinton's brilliant campaign staff in 192 put a sign on the wall of the campaign headquarters urging staff to remember this, it's the economy, stupid. the smoking guy, herman cain's campaign manager needs to write on his palm, right now, it's the yellow tie, stupid. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands.
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general's office and i encourage them to 0 come forward, let us know and we will work to do everything we can to help you.come forward, let us know and we will work to do everything we can to help you. this is about the victims. >> that was pennsylvania governor tom corbett encouraging anyone who may have been a victim of abuse at the hands of jerry sandusky to come forward and tell that story. joining me now is a friend of the show goldie taylor, contributor to the grio.com. thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me, lawrence. >> i'm a devoted twitter followers of yours and i was following your tweets and read one that made me pay attention to everything that followed. you tweeted yesterday, at first i was angry that penn state officials covered it up. now i'm a shamed that i never had the courage to tell my own story. you then went on through the day in twitter to tell that story. tell us how this sandusky story, how this penn state story has
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changed the way you look at your own history. >> i think first yesterday afternoon i saw a few tweets about the sandusky case that said he was going to fight the charges and that the children themselves may have to stand trial and tell their stories publicly in a court of law. and maybe that's fair, but at the end of the day what happened to these children is something so deplorable, so unthinkably evil, that to have them stand trial is, i think just unimaginable. and it's said to me if i'm angry that adults did not speak out then, then why then aren't i angry at myself for not telling my story and helping other young women like me combat predators who are in our high schools, and our middle schools.
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in my case it was a high school football coach. i was a varsity cheerleader in missouri. and there were other women like me, and i knew it at the time. in my own fear of being shamed and blamed, even as a growing person, as an adult, a mother of children now, i felt like i had no safe harbor to tell it. but if the i were going to challenge these adults at penn state to tell it, if i were going to challenge other people to speak up and speak out, i said yesterday afternoon, then why not me? so i started to tweet about it. and as people began to respond, i said, now's the time. and i would not wait another day. >> it was the most dramatic unfolding of revelations i've
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ever seen on twitter or could expect to see. it was absolutely riveting to learn of what you have been through and the fact it linked specifically to a football coach and that whole, the way this story has made you realize, perhaps more than many of us already had realized at some level these things should be reported but the most difficult person involved in reporting is the victim, isn't it? >> yes, it is. and even today. i'm 43 years old. certainly i have made a life for myself. i have made a life for my children, by i recount back. this happened 26, 27 years ago. you know, i just know that i have lived with it every day of my life. i said on twitter yesterday and again today that there are no survivors. they are just people like me that tuck it in and keep it moving. you know, try to make something better of it.
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but these guys, these women, they pick children who are more susceptible, children from single-parent homes, children who come from poverty and parents are working two and three jobs. children who have a lack of self esteem and self worth and look for someone to love them and unfortunately predators find children, like me, people like allegedly sandusky find children like sandusky and they groom us and put themselves in a position to have more access to us. i understand this coach is still coaching girls' track. so i have decided to go home for legal reasons i can't name them but i have decided to go home and make the charge. and tell the story. i just won't stop here. >> goldie, i don't think you woke up yesterday morning knowing that
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