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tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  November 16, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EST

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commit to do. this is dangerous stuff, more ignorant in its implications than even the clown show mr. cain has offered us. that "hardball" for now. "politics nation" starts right now. >>ç hey p. republicans, i'm looking for your jobs agenda. that's funny. i can't find it anywhere. party of unfairness. a new report shows president obama's jobs plan can work. yet republicans still block it. and they continue to block tax -- >> we have gone as far as we feel we can go. >> actually congressman, you can go farther. tonight congressman john larson and seiu president mary kay hen are show us the way. stopping the war on women, senator barbara boxer on her plan to make 2012 the new year of the woman. watch on you, gop.
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newt caught, fannie mae and freddie mac had so many politicians beholden to them that in fact nobody was going to check them. >> uh-oh does that include your million dollar payday? shall rum and milbank on the newt ron meltdown. another lucky day for the luck ye republican in the world. plus block the vote. a tennessee couple's hour-long voter i.d. ordeal. it's a wake-up call for all of us. "politics nation" starts right now. welcome. i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead -- watch what republicans in congress do, not what they say. >> helping americans get back to work is our number one priority.
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it starts with aç pledge to america and it will start with josh. >> republicans have been focused on job creation since the beginning of this congress. >> you know, we hear a lot of that kind of talk, but speaker boehner, you're not really focused on job creation. how did your party show its commitments to jobs today? by ramming a concealed handgun bill through congress so people can carry concealed weapons in the states where we are thought allowed to carry? there's no real commitment to jobs in the big republican economic plan, either. this week republicans are expected to reintroduce their balanced budget amendment. here's a spoiler. it's so extreme, it makes the paul ryan plan look weak. the cuts in it are so deep it would throw 15 million more people out of work. that would double the unemployment rate. that's not all. it was ravage entitlements.
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it could cut social security by 1.2 trillion over the next ten years, and medicare, medicare cut by $750 billion. americans are desperate for jobs, but republicans just refuse to get serious about it. joining me now is congressman john larson, democrat from connecticut and chair of the house democratic caucus, and mary kay henry, president of seiu. today her organization of 2.1 million members announced the endorsement of president obama. we'll talk about that more in just a moment. congressman let me talk with ç you. >> good to be with you, al. >> republicans continue to push unpopular legislation. are they ignoring the will of the people? >> no question about it.
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what we hear every single that we go home is our constituents calling upon us to provide them with the simple dignity that can only come from a job, so they can provide the security for their family. what we have gotten is, like you say, a lot of plat attitudes and messaging. we should be able to take up the president's plan. why not put up the president's plan? take up eric cantor's plan, but for god's sake, act on jobs. you know, al, that i've pressed the super committee. we know this. job creation equals deficit reduction. the thing that reduces the deficit the most, if we were to take unemployment to under 7%, over a third of the deficit is reduced. we put america back to work. i don't think this is rocket science. either you have the goal and objective of putting the country back to work, or you have another goal, like unelecting the guy down on pennsylvania
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avenue. >> talking about that, mary kay henry, you probably had the most on the ground grass-roots progressive union in the country, and you made a big endorsement today. before i get to that, though, they are they are going to actually reintroduce, mary kay, the balanced budget amendment, the republicans in the house this week. now, you and i have been in countless meetings together, +táens of thousands of us about job. they are reintroducing this balanced-budget amendments which will cost jobs. it is so bizarre that bruce bartlett, former adviser to president reagan and george h.w. bush said, quote, the proposal that republican leaders planned to bring up is frankly nuts. this is bartlett, not henry, not -- this is bartlett.
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what is wrong with these people? >> it's outrageous. we completely agree with you, there are hundreds of millions doing more with less, and 25 million more that want full-time work, and there's plenty of work that needs to be done in this country. i join the congressman in saying there is an economic emergency. we need to declare a state of emergency. we need or government to act. we need millions of us to go back to work now. >> now, congressman, when you look at the data, the average cash income in 2011, top 1% average was 1.5 -- really $1,530,773 to be exact. that's the average. the bottom 20%, $9,187. if that is not a wealth gap, if that is not class warfare in the bottom tier, i don't know what is.
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>> well, you know, it is class warfare. unfortunately the war has already been won. and it's been won by the nation's wealthiest 1%. look, all the more reason. mary kay is absolutely right. we need, as you know, reverend sharpton, from the civilç righ movement, the idea and notion of the fierce urgency of now, to put more than 14 million americans back to work, and some 25 million americans that are underemployed. we need the government to step in and act hand in glove together. ironically i think there's a number of republicans that agree with this. we just need -- i always thought the super committee, because there's no cloture vote -- and we still hope for that, but to date we have not -- >> but congressman, you said something early that i want to go to mary kay on this.
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i said -- we need these jobs, because they want to defeat the president. is this all political? >> -- they've been bold, blunt and very specific about it. when you have the leader of the senate saying he has one objective, to take this president down, it's pretty clear. this isn't anything, you know, that they've been hiding or beating around the bush. they have come right on you and said it. >> don't worry. go back and tell your caucus don't panic, the calvary is on the way. look at what seiu and mary kay is coming up the hill with. they started some ads today in states that are closely contested for the u.s. senate. a new union ad aimed at these republicans, and mary kay, tell us what you're doing. >> we are coming up the hill.
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we@a!%9- that this president fights for working families. we want to expand the fight by declaring this state of emergency. tomorrow we will have members joining with students, the rest of the community and labor movement to say there's plenty of work that needs doing in this country. there's 60,000 bridges that can get fixed now. there's lots of people out of work that want to get back to work. we need congress to make the decision to have everybody pay their fair share. the democrats have been leading the fight. we want republicans to join them. >> you're coming out pretty tough on senators brown, heller and rayburg. these are members that are up and they are being challenged, seiu and other groups have a new -- and a in.
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>> i'll remember you cut medicare and medicaid every time i fill a prescription. i'll remember you cut medicare if i fall or get hurt. i'll remember you protected millionaires over protecting my health. my friends will remember it, too. >> this is a tv ad, mary kay. i know seiu is coming out strong. does this mean that this is going to be unlike the midterm, that it's going to be all hands on deck, and we're going to be fighting and fighting hard so that congressman larsen and his caucus will not be heldç in som kind of lonely island fighting by themselves? >> absolutely. it means not just our hands, or 2.1 million members, but we'll join hands with the unemployed, with non-union workers, with all
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of our community allies, reverend, because we think we need to get into the streets in numbers plik never before to make our case, that we want our government to respond to this state of emergency. our members want to back this president, who is making the case that we cannot wait as a country. we have to act now. that's why we thought it was important to endorse today, and to get into the streets tomorrow and stay in the streets, turn out the vote in november 2012, and keep in the streets in november 2013, to keep the change that we want for this country. >> well, congressman, this is not a reality show. this is a show about reality. >> that's right. >> americans need jobs, jobs, jobs, and we will take nothing less. thanks to our brothers and sisters that occupy wall street, now we have to bring it across the line of victory. jobs for the american people. congressman john larson and mary
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kay henry, seiu, thank you for your time tonight. >> happy to be here. >> thank you. newt ging arrive denied lobbying, but a bombshell report now says he made more than a million dollars. somewhere willard milt romney is smiling. plus herman cain did it again. another gaffe in miami today. >>ç how do you -- >> and witness to voter suppression. this couple fights back and speakings out exclusively tonight. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. [ male announcer ] whether over a cup of maxwell house,
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or a can of paint, you turned millions of votes, and hundreds of volunteer hours, into a real difference for over 100,000 people. what's next? tell us on facebook. ♪ feel the power my young friend. mmm! [ male announcer ] for unsurpassed fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion. could've had a v8.
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newt's rise to the top should be short-lived. he hammered president obama for taking money from freddie mac, but what about that $1.6 million? stay with us.
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welcome back to "politics nation." republicans are waging a war on the middle class, but they're not only waging a war on the middle class. they're tlgs engaged in an unprecedented attack on women's rights. it's not just the assault on reproductive rights that we have
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talked about on this show. they're on a mission to change or abolish medicare. nearly 27 million women are covered by the program. 69% of adult medicare recipients are women. then there's this all-too familiar tagline. >> obama-care is a bill that simply must be repealed. >> there are 1.6 million reasons why we should repeal obamacare. >> our pledge was to repeal obama-care. >> repeal the job-killing obamacare bill. >> repealing the health care law would be devastating for women. before the law, women could be charged more for individual insurance policies just because of their gender. there's also the big one. >> hopefuíly they won't continue to provide abortions with taxpayer dollars. >> we will stand tonight and we will put an end to the federal
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funding of planned parenthood. >> we're going to dig in and we're going to fight for the principles that taxpayers should not have to subsidize the largest abortion provider in the country, namely planned parenthood of america. >> it will trip women of everything, from access to blirt control to cancer screenings. it's all-out war on women. we have to fight back. joining me now is the fighter, senator barbara boxer, democrat from california. she's recently launched a campaign to help fight for women by getting more women elected to congress called win with women 2012. senator boxer, thanks for joining me. >> thank you so much. >> why are they attacking women? >> you would have to ask them that, because that may be a deep psychological question, but i don't care why they're doing it. the fact that they are doing it is harming more than 50% of our
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people. do you know, fortunately the mississippi personhood amendment was defeated in that southern red state. >> right. >> but there are many bills in the house and senate that would really hurt windchill's reproductive rights, including a personhood amendment. so think about this, reverend al. if a woman was the victim of rape and she took a morning-after pill to prevent that rape from turning into a pregnancy, she would go to prison under the republicans' plan. >> when iç heard this, i was surprised. the law you're talking about, i mean, even though it was defeated in mississippi, it is in front of the congress now. >> absolutely. and we could go on with examples. another one, you had some wonderful examples. thank you for those, but you know there's been well over 100 votes that would weaken
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environment laws, clean air, safe drinking water, which impacts women and children, and especially pregnant women, and would really harm them, harm their health, harm their babies, and they vote almost on a daily basis to go after the epa. i'm involved in that as chairman of the environment committee, but this goes on and on. at a time when women are still only earning 77 cents for ever dollar earned by a man, 63% of those on minimum wage jobs are women, and a lot say we should do away with -- and the great news is win with women 2012.com. if folks go there, what they'll see is we are fighting back with six fabulous incumbent women senators, and five fabulous challengers, including the latest one from north dakota, heidi hidecamp.
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>> let me emphasize what you just said. 63% of workers earning minimum wage or less are bim, and in 2011, women earn only 77 cents for every dollar men earn? i hopeç people are getting thi at home. let me also add -- you want 25 states with new limits on the right to choose were enacted this year. so i just want people to have the context of why you have this drive going, because we have this gender war going in terms of rights for women in that context, here comes senator boxer saying we need to put women that will stand up for gender equality and rights in their rightful places. now, go ahead and explain the strategy, how can you do it and how people with link into the fight? >> they can link in easily by
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going to win with women 2012.com, all one word, and there they will meet on our site the women who are running for the senate, the incumbent women and challengers. i'm not on there, because i won my race -- thank you, california -- in 2010, and it was a hard race. you have elizabeth warren in massachusetts, maria cant well, a champion for the environment and consumer. i don't want to list every name, because we don't have time, but they can meet these women. they can also read about the things you talked about and i talked about, this war on women. by the way, the jobs bills, the obama jobs bills that republicans have shot down here in the senate, they filibustered them, and then we got a small veterans bill done. ]erñ they c.
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win with women 2012.com. >> one more time. >> you're so go to me. >> win with women 2012.com. >> that sounds like a plug. my mama is a woman. >> i love it. >> thanks for your time. >> thank you. a major conflict for justices scalia and thomas on the health care case, but wait until you see how another network covered it. fresh off his libya disaster, herman contain gives us another youtube moment. stay with us. this new at&t 4g lte is fast.
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since the supreme court announced it would consider challenge to president obama's health care law, we told you about conflicts of interest, two of the injureses face. on the same day the court decide to hear the case, justices clarence thomas and scalia spoke at a fund-raiser for the conservative legal group the federalist society. their tables at the event were right next to lawyer paul klemmants' table. here is an issue to think about.
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clement will likely be the lawyer to argue against the law before the supreme court. ened and she's saying things like this. >> the clear focus is do stop the obama çagenda. >> so there are serious signs of conflicts for scalia and thomas, how does fox news cover this story? >> there are new questions now about whether justice elena kagan has already made up her mind on this issue. now we're seeing justice department e-mails from kagan's time as mr. obama's solicitor general, on the very day the law passed, kagan tells lawrence tribe, serving the justice department, quote, i hear they have the votes, larry.
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simply amazing. >> if they were closely involved in the health care bill, she would legally be required it recuse herself from the case, but according to the constitution, a justice must recuse even if he or she expressed an opinion concerning the merits of the particular case in controversy. >> let's get this straight. fog focused on justice elena kagan rather than on thomas and scalia? one issue off the bat with the report, they say she should recuse herself because of article 28. that article doesn't exist. temperature doesn't sit she played a big part on the law, so there's no real conflict, but even when fox does talk about justice thomas, they miss half the story. >> clarence thomas is the targets of liberals who say his
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wife's lobbying activiti disqualify millennium from hearing the case. >> nmention of thomas econtention to clement or that he attended a right-wingç fund-raiser. that's fair and balanced? nice try, guys. but we got you. ♪ ♪ let's go ♪ ♪ ♪ come with me, let's go ♪ ♪ come with me, let's go ♪ ♪ cruise like a norwegian ♪
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welcome back to "politics nation." newt gingrich, you have some explaining to do. just one week ago he was asked why he earned gist $300,000 a year as a lobbyist for lending giant freddie mac. he didn't appreciate the question. >> i have never done anyç lobbying. evercontract that was written during the period when i was our office specifically said i would do no lobbying. my advice as a historian when when they said we're making loans to people with no credit history and have no record of paying back anything, but that's what the government wants us to
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do, i said at the time, this is a bubble. this is insane. this is impossible. >> a historian? a historian? i didn't know mortgage lenders had historians i neither did the people at freddie mac. today a blame shell blume berg report reveals that gingrich was paid by freddie mac to specifically court republicans former freddie mac officials bloomberg, quote, the former house speaker was asked to build bridges and develop an argument on behalf of the company's public/private structure. in contact you didn't know, newt, that's the definition of lobbying. for all his worked he earned between $1.6 and $1.8 million
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for two contracts. today gingrich danced around the question. >> first of all, it wasn't paid to me. it was a consulting firm that had lots of people doing things, and we offered strategic device. >> is the $1.6 million figure accurate? >> i don't know. we're going back to check. i was speaker of the house and strategic adviser. >> so newt doesn't refute getting over a million from freddie mac, but months after he left the payroll, he had no problems criticizing then presidential candidate barack obama in 2008. >> force obama to give back the money he's taken from fannie mae and freddie mac. >> so, newt, just between us, are you going to take your own advice? with competition like this, mitt romney must be feeling like the luckiest man on the planet.
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joining me now is bob shrum, former senior adviser to the kerry and gore campaign, now a professor at nyu. dana milbank, "the washington post" columnist. thank you both for coming in tonight. bob, is this kind of an uh-oh moment for brother newt? >> i think dana makes a pretty persuasive case that it is, and i've said several times on the show that newt gingrich can't be the republican nominee. it's going to be mitt romney, but i think we have to have a couple caveats here now. first, he may be teflon. it may be that republican primarily voters think they all know about this guy and they're going to let it pass, partly because he's about the only un-romney left. subjectly, his polls is extraordinary. he's not only leading in some polls, the best
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favorable/unfavorable in the republican party, so as cain fade, that support could go to gingrich. the republican party may lose its mind and i lfb provedç to wrong. >> well, dana, i read you this morning, too. let me show you some before we go to your column. this is at the bloomberg debate about what he says about barney frank. >> two words -- >> if you want to put people in jail, i want to second what michelle said, you ought to start with barney frank and chris dodd, and let's look at the politicians who created the environment, and who profited from the environment. go back and look at the lobbyists he was close to at -- everybody in the media who wants to go after the business community haught to start at the politicians that's at the heart of the sickness weakening this
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country. >> barney didn't seem like he was going to go quietly. >> to words apply to newt -- lobbyist and liar. he was convicted of lying, he has a history of doing this. this is nonsense he was paid $1.6 million to talk about history? the transcontinental railroad? he was clearly there as a lobbyist. he slipped and acknowledged that to acknowledge that -- after all, i'm speaker of the house. what you enhance is your value as a lobbyist. >> now, dana, there's been like donald trump, sarah palin, michele bachmann, rick perry, herman cain, i'm almost running out of fingers on how many people had the surge to be the new flavor of the month or week. i thought newt, who youç know
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know the president had us do this bipartisan education tour together, i though the newt would at least last, so i can't discuss him over thanksgiving dinner. what does this mean? >> i think he'll be around a while, at least until the opposition digs out the photos. i was there, saw it with my own eyes. newt has done a clever job of running against the media this time and going for the tea party vote. sure, he's a conservative, but also a different kind of politician who's had common cautions with hillary clinton on hell care, some commonity with you on education. he's been on global warming saying it's manmade, and working with john kerry on that. all these things make him sound like a sort of reasonable guy, but not to the republican primary electorate. that's why i think he may have
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some trouble convincing somebody that he is a real alternative to mitt romney, but as bob and you pointed out, there's not a whole lot of alternatives left, unless you go with rick santorum. i guess he's the only one they haven't gone to yet. >> this really is about mitt romney. this really is, bob, about willard just cannot convince the party that he is the guy. this really is not about any of the people, including newt. this is about willard. >> yeah, it is. they don't trust him. the republican establishes wants him. republican prime year voters are very suspicious. they don't know what he believes in, and thish probably right about that. s think asç i said before, thi guy has a business plan. he's going to give the consumers whatever they want. he's been pro-choice, not pro-choice. pro-gay rights, against gay
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rights. he changes his mind on every essential issue of conscience and policy. now today there's a first sign his electricability argument is framed. there's a mu poll that shows that gingrich, at least for the moment, before people find out more about him perhaps, is doing better again obama than romney is. electability has been romney's calling card. it hasn't been enough, but he can't afford to lose it. >> now, dana, before we -- lest we forget herman cain was in miami today. herman cain did it again. he talked about frees cuba. we all now he's had challenges in -- how do you --
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>> i mean, how do we -- how do americans take this as a serious process when you see people like these people? what are we talking about? in some ways, he's making a mockery. i'm clearly -- i know some very intelligence republicans we
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mitt romney has a huge electricability problem, but think how blessed he is with the opposition. you couldn't have asked for anything better than what happened with rick berry at the debate and the ridiculous five minutes explaining libya, and now we find out his latest point is a multimillion dollar histori historian, who spends his large assets at tiffany's on thinks third wife. so whatever just so we can round this off. michele bachmann, we know she studies foreign policy. they caught up with her today. let's watch what she had to say. >> obama was sending troops to
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australia. yeah, that's what i heard. >> are you kidding? for what reason? >> i don't know. >> well, okay, i'm sorry i can't tell you, because i don't know what that reason is, but -- but i will definitely look into that. if there's anything that we havç learned about foreign entanglements, once you get in, it's very hard to get out, and it comes at a very steep price. >> now, she said this right after she said she was engaged in foreign policy, and anybody that woke up this morning or read the papers knew the president was in australia and said that we were committing a strong military -- a different military presence there other than just a base, but it kind of missed her, the one running for president. >> the nothing that we're getting into a foreign entanglement by sending troops into australia is pretty stupid, but she's done this over and over again. if she had stopped at the end of the first sentence saying gee, i'm not aware of that, i'll look
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it, she would have been better off. this is the weakest field of candidates in either party in my lifetime. as you watch these debates, your breath is almost taken away by some of the things people say, by some of the mistake these make. perry is out there saying i'm not a politics. that's for sure. he's become a punch line, because of his own performance. people looking at this say -- at least rational people do, romney is the only adult there, the only adult on the stage, but he's still got his problems. >> if it wasn't for 14 million unemployed people in the country, it would be funny. it's sad to me we're not discussing in a substantive way the real issues. bob shrum and dana milbank, thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thanks, ref rend. ahead, the right wing evidence to suppress the vote is happening right now. and it's working.
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we'll talkç to a live tennesse couple and hearing about their terrible experience just trying to register to vote. herman cain may be splitting from the party when it comes to pizza. we'll explain that one. stay with us. new stride whitemint is a hit but it lasts too long. how do we get people to chew another piece? i got this one. oh hey. [ male announcer ] spit it out. or yeti will find you. [ grunts ] i like him. thanks ryan. [ male announcer ] new stride whitemint. the ridiculously long lasting gum. and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas.
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opportunity possible. welcome back to "politics nation." we've been telling you about the coordinated right-wing effort to suppress the vote. here's a reminder of how ugly it is. a texas tea party group is planning an event around columnist matthew vadum. that's him posing with iowa congressman steve king. he criticized groups that register poor people to vote. this is what he said, quote. welfare recipients are particular open to democrat gogry and bribery. registering them to vote is like handing out burglary tools to criminals. so he's calling poor people who want to vote criminals. this is the kind of ridiculous logic that led to voter
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repressir oppression bills. but the fight is on. >> from ohio to wisconsin, down to florida, across texas, the franchise is under attack today in this country. >> a poll tax by another name would smell as vile. >>ç these laws will do the wor thing that can be done in a democracy discourage citizens from voting. >> this couple from tennessee was discouraged from voting. they testified about their own struggle to get a free voter i.d. >> the worker then suggested why not just get a duplicate license for a fee of $8? i replied no, we want the free voter photo. the worker again reiterated that the wise choice was to get the
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photo on the driver's license as opposed to getting a separate i.d. photo, as that entailed, as she said, too much paperwork. >> joining me now, lee campbell, a retired high school guidance counselor and his wife phyllis campbell. welcome to the show. >> thank you for having us. >> now, lee, let me start with you, as phyllis -- you and phyllis went for phyllis to get her i.d. that's now required to vote, and when you were just testifying at that forum before the congress persons, you were saying free i.d. you wanted and they said get a duplicate that cost money. what do you mean by free i.d.? and why were they pushing you to the duplicate that cost money? >> i was saying free i.d., because that's what was in the legislation. that was passed by the tennessee
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legislature last spring. and i felt that the amount of the money, $8, wcs not the question. we could easily afford that, but the question what you that by paying an $8 fee, twhap would in effect be paying a poll tax? >> you're absolutely right. and the reason you had to get the i.d. at all is because they've imposed this new law. and is it so that you want to therefore go and get new i.d. to vote that was not required before, which is why you and lee were there in the first place, phyllis? >> yes, that's right. >> so all you wanted to do was vote, the legislation requires now you get state voter i.d., or state-issued i.d., and they said it was too much paperwork or whatever the excuse was, to give it to you free, so they kept
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pushing you that would have cost $8, and as you're saying it doesn't matter that you could afford it, the fact is they're making you pay for something that shouldn't be charged. imagine somebody that couldn't afford it. >> that's correct. i might say that the previous -- we were there september 9th, and in august, a senior citizen friend of ours, mr. steve blankenship of mural murfeesboro. you're not required to have the photo after age 60. that's your choice. i was cognizant of the fact that mr. blankenship had gone in august and was charged the $8, and i was -- i'll just say i wasn'tç surprised when we got there and they wanted us to pay the $8.
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it was supposed to be free, and i -- i stood our ground. >> well, lee, i want to thank you and phyllis for standing your ground, and for telling it on our show tonight. a poll tax by any other name is a poll tax. we'll be right back. thank you. [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people are choosing advil®. here's one story. [ regis ] we love to play tennis. as a matter of fact it was joy who taught me how to play tennis. and with it comes some aches and pains and one way to relieve them all is to go right to the advil®. i have become increasingly amazed at regis's endurance.
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finally tonight, forget jobs. republicans are fighting for what really matters -- keeping starchy vegetables and salty foods inç our school cafeteria. house republicans just blocked a proposal from the department of agriculture to make school lunches healthier. thanks to republicans, our kids can eat all the pizza they want. why? because the usda counts tomato sauce as a vegetable. the right-wingers who freak out about a so-called nanny state are celebrating, but i don't think the godfather of pizza will be too happy about this
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one. herman cain recently said, quote, the more top position a man has on his pizza, i believe the more manly he is. a manly man don't want it piled high with vegetables. i would call that a sissy pizza. so if tomato sauce is a vegetable, the entire piece is a massive vegetable. >> excuse me? excuse me! >> this all got me thinking. what is it with republicans and pizza? back in may, donald trimp and sarah palin had a very public meeting right here in new york at a times square pizza place. by the way, who eats pizza with a fork? herming, your response, please? ♪ imagine there's no pizza ♪ i couldn't

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