a very good monday morning to you. i'm richard liu in today for chris jansing. after three mongs of wrangelling and arm twisting, the deficit reduction super committee is about to throw in the towel. kelly o'donnell is watching what's happening or i guess what isn't happening, kelly. is there any chance of a deal here? what are you hearing? >> reporter: i wouldn't want to pre assume it 100% dead because

there can be conversations going on behind the scenes, but everything we've been told is the committee will wait until after the markets closed and will announce it failed to reach an agreement. its mission was pretty big, find $1.2 trillion worth of savings over ten years and couldn't agree. the divide really fell along taxes, and to give you an idea of how that kind of fell apart, here are two voices that were on this committee, key players, jon kyl republican of arizona and john kerry, democrat of massachusetts. >> whether our democratic friends are unable it to cut even a dollar in spending without saying it has to be accompanied by tax increases, that tells you all you need to know. >> what john just said is patently not true. we just cut $917 billion without one dime of new revenue. he knows it. we just did it. we cut $550 billion in the health care act from medicare.

we didn't raise -- you know, this is just nonsense. >> reporter: and richard, why today matters so much is because originally we talked about wednesday being the deadline, but under the rules this committee would have to have an agreement turned into writing, a real bill, have it scored by the congressional budget office to give it an official cost. that would have to be done by today. they don't have it. so it appears that that really brings to a fizzling end this super committee. what happens because of its failure? well, there would be sweeping cuts triggered in 2013. again, matching that $1.2 trillion, but spread across half defense and half domestic spending with a few things that are protected like social security. but the cuts would be deep, and because they would be automatic, we're already hearing from republicans and the department of defense, secretary panetta included, saying that to make such severe cuts to defense would hollow out the military. they have a year to fix that. it is disappointing. there was a lot of positive talk

for a while, but there was always an undercurrent in the last couple of weeks they wouldn't get tlchhere. the failure is not a big surprise but disappointing. >> still disappointing. thank you. let's bring in washington post columnist and msnbc contributor, ezra kline. let's talk about the biggest concerns, first. the markets down by almost 200 at one point. there's a talk of a downgrade in u.s. credit. what's the worst that can happen now? >> i'd be careful about attributing today's markets to the super committee. there's a lot more going on in europe. for markets and for the rating agencies talking about a downgrade, it's six of one and two of another. markets don't care which side the cuts come from. they're not worried about what leon panetta thinks about the defense department. if they undo the trigger, approximate if they say instead

of 1.2 trillion you get less than that, that would prompt a downgrade and prompt some market concern. there's no reason right now to think markets care about this, in fact, at all. the ratings agencies said they won't downgrade. >> you've said here, ezra, no deal is better than a bad deal. were all of the other options on the table for the super committee bad? >> not all of them, but the ones they were considering largely were. you can make the argument both ways. the real problem is not the lack of a deficit reduction deal. as of friday the federal government can borrow at almost nothing if include inflation. the market is paying us to borrow money from them for five or search years. what the supercommittee was going to do is include an extension of the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits. that's a lot of money supporting the economy. economic forecasters say it's responsible for a point or two percentage points of economic growth.

take that out we have slower growth and even with europe a recession next year. i'm not so worried about the deficit side of the committee's failure as the stimulus growth side of the stimulus failure, because that's the pressing concern. >> why not go for low-hanging fruit and have a small win? >> it's not a win. they have that right now. the trigger is a lot of low-hanging fruit. i'm not particularly convinced by the arguments it's going to hollow out defense. it's a small ircut the to the defense department in percentage terms we have made in other times of defense drawdown like after the soviet union, after the threat of the soviet union receded. so people get angry, but what's the point of having a $500 billion plan when you can have a $1.2 trillion plan. >> thank you as always. >> today at 1:00 p.m. super committee chairman john kerry will be andrea mitchell's special guest. westerly live at a penn state university news conference where we'll hear from the board of trustees on the growing child

sex abuse scandal. a special committee was formed to investigate the school's action after long time football coach jerry sandusky was arrested and charged with abusing eight young boys. peter alex ender is live from penn state's campus. >> as they take the podium, ken frazier is maybe of the board and ceo of merck. there are a lot of questions filling the air. among the questions to the board of trustees is what did you know and when did you know it regarding the scandal surrounding jerry sandusky? the reason this is significant is at least one former board member, the acting athletic director said the first he knew of this scandal existing was when he read it in the newspaper in march of this year. graham spainer, the now ousted president of penn state university, testified before the grand jury during its three-year

investigation that began in 2008. so if president knew dating back as far back as 2008, why didn't the board know? if they did know, why didn't they act sooner? >> peter you're watching new developments involving the first known victim in this case of jerry sandusky. >> reporter: the first known victim is 17 years old. he was allegedly sexually abused close to two dozen times by jerry sandusky beginning in 2007 and into 2008. he's now a senior in high school at central mountain high school, which is only a short sdanls away from where we are, where jerry sandusky had been volunteering. that student, according to a school counselor, has had to leave school because of bullying taking place there. other students, according to the counselor, were not given guidance by officials by the situation. they were upset about joe paterno's firing and blamed victim number one for that. he unfortunately has had to leave. the reason this is outrageous is obvious, not the least of which, this student has to leave

school, mike mcqueery is receiving death threats and jerry sandusky himself is still free on bail able to go as he pleases. >> nbc's peter alexander on on the campus of penn state. let's see what they're saying right now at the news conference peter was talking about. >> to add further outside perspective to our committee, we've appointed an independent and distinguished member and penn state graduate to the special committee. the eminent engineer, air force officer, and former astronaut

dr. gion blueford. to lead the investigation we sought a person whose personal integrity and professional background are beyond reapproach. i'm pleased to report to you that we have more than met that standard. to conduct this investigation we've engaged an outstanding -- >> the board of trustees is speaking on the campus of penn state discussing the special panel they put together and naming who is part of the panel. let's bring in right now democratic congresswoman karen bass of california. she's the co-chair of the foster care and adoption caucuses. thank you for your time today. pennsylvania senator robert casey pushing for an expedited federal hearing. what else is congress doing that you're aware of? >> i've introduced a bipartisan bill with several of my colleagues that we're calling the child abuse -- stop child

abuse act, speak up and stop child abuse. the purpose of the bill is that if you are over 18 and witness sexual assault, you are oblig e obligated to report it to the police or child protection services. if you don't, you're liable. >> there are only 18 states across the country that require that all citizens, if they were to see sex abuse, they are required to report it. that's only 18 states. this federal law would make it necessary and required across all 50 states is what you're saying? >> that's exactly the point. so much needs to be done, and it's a heartbreak of what you said a minute ago about the young man who is being bullied in his school. he we really need to have a amount of public education as well. this bill is a first step. it's a small step. we're introducing it in a bipartisan fashion, and it's my hope that we can, you know, really address this issue. but it's going to take a long-term strategy. >> why not leave it to the st e

stat states? you have 18 states that made it illegal. why not leave it up to them? >> what happened at penn state is exactly the reason why. you know, the fact that the assistant coach and i know it's controversial as to whether he reported it or not, but the fact that he didn't intervene. calling 911, stopping the assault from happening right when he was there. you know, a tremendous amount of public education needs to happen, because that young man or boy -- he was only 10 years old. being victimized right on the spot. someone should have intervened. it needs to be a national policy, and that's the whole point. the states will decide how to enforce the policy, what the criminal penalty is, but clearly it needs to be all 50 states. >> coach mcqueary does says he did stop that, by the way. we'll see how it turns out to be at the end of the investigation. there's also the idea of the statute of limitations here, they should be extended for the sex abuse cases because many victims decide to report it when they're much older, but

unfortunately, it is too late. >> that's something that should be looked at, too. senator casey and senator boxer, there are several pieces of legislation we're all looking at right now. senator boxer actually introduced a bill, the content of the bill that we're introducing now in 1999. sometimes it takes an incident like this to create the public will to really move the legislation forward. >> congresswoman karen bass of california, thank you. >> thank you. new york police move in on an alleged terrorist who had already begun assembling bombs to use against u.s. troops returning home. details of the investigation and capture just ahead. actor hugh grant is on the stand in london this morning testifying before a judicial inquiry set up to look into the phone hacking scandal involving rupert murdoch's tablet "news of the world." he spoke about one particular incident that points to evidence his phone was hacked.

>> the mail on sunday ran an article february 2007 saying that my relationship with my then girlfriend was the on the rocks because of my persistent late-night flirt yus phone calls with a plummy-voiced studio executive from warner bros. it was a bizarre story. >> grant can only remember getting voice messages who left charming and joking messages. he sued the newspaper for libel and won. you know why they call it black friday? 'cause i'm like a savings ninja. ok... [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. but we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. the only place to go on black friday. walmart. -why? -why? -why? [ female announcer ] we all age differently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer with roc®retinol and antioxidants. lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you.

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we're still listening to the board of trustees from penn state. former fbi director louie free will lead the penn state sex abuse scandal investigation. that's what trustees were just

announcing. we'll continue to watch what's happening there. the softer side of herman cain came out this weekend. the former godfather's pizza ceo choked up talking about his cancer diagnosis. >> walking out of that surgeon's office after she had just told us stage 4 -- >> take your time. >> i said i wasn't going to do this. >> but former white house chief of staff raum eman nell was all smiles at another event. he joked they were full of turkeys at the jefferson jackson dinner in des moines. >> i don't know about you, but i've watched a couple of those debates. i've got to be honest. i never thought i'd say this. i'm beginning to miss the wisdom of sarah palin. >> before the race they got a standing ovation, but later the first lady was booed at a nascar

event. take a look at this. >> please welcome or grand marshals sergeant andrew berry and family, first lady of the united states michelle obama, and dr. jill biden. >> michelle obama and dr. jill biden were ceremonial grand marshal s to promote their initiatives to help veterans and a surprise appearance by john huntsman on "saturday night live." >> i'd like to start with something you never here at the debates. governor huntsman, the first question is for you. isn't it true nationally you're polling in the low single digits? >> it is true, seth, but only a few months ago i was polling at margin of error. to have any digit at all is a pretty big deal. >> you've heard mitt romney on the campaign trail rail against the president's health care law. >> i will eliminate obama care. >> now, one of the architects of

the health care law in massachusetts is calling him out insisting romney's bill is just like the president's health care law. jonathan gruber joins me now. he's also an economics professor at m.i.t. and a democrat. thank you for being here today. >> thank you very much for having me. >> so, you said in an interview with capital new york that romney can try to dre distinctions but he's lying is what you're saying. what's he lying about? >> he's not really technically lying but being very disingeneral with us. he's says he managed to have health care for massachusetts without raising taxes, and obama would do the same thing and not have to raise taxes. what romney is being disingeneral with us about, we did it in massachusetts without raising taxes because the feds picked up most of the bill. sort of a cheat to say that he didn't have to raise taxes and obama does. >> you're saying those two are the same, what romney has putt forth the in massachusetts and what the president has passed

here across the country? >> basically affordable care act, our national health care reform is a more ambitious version of the romney plan. the core is the same. it's to cover people with health insurance by expanding private sector health insurance through an individual mandate. on top of that, the obama plan layers on revenue raising in an effort to control health care cost, which are not available in massachusetts. the core of the bill, the part that covers people is the same. romney really pioneered this approach, showed it could work in massachusetts, and that was the basis for what was done nationally. >> i want to play a little sound here from governor romney and how he is playing this whole situation out at the moment. >> president obama's view is that approximate if health care is a problem, we need government to run it more. and what he's doing is not just dealing with those people that don't have insurance. in my state, that's what we did. we had 8% uninsured. we wanted get them insured, but the 92%, we didn't change anything for them. they bought policies like they

always had. >> he's trying to make that distinction there. you met with romney once before on the campaign trail or through the planning of the massachusetts health care bill. is this consistent, what he's saying now and what he said before, and is it correct? >> i mean, the goal of both bills was to essentially that goal, that he articulated, to leave those who elect their health insurance alone and fill in gaps for those that don't have. that's the goal of both bills. essentially the obama bill much like massachusetts, marginally leaves people alone that like their health insurance. it's filling in gaps for those who don't have access to insurance and today are one bad gene or one bad traffic accident away from bankruptcy. both bills try to help that population in the same way. so it's a distinction without a difference. >> professor jonathan gruber, thank you so much. >> you bet. this so-called lone wolf terror suspect was building explosives right in his own apartment. was he working with anything else, though?

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the man accused of making pipe-bombs in his new york city apartment is in custody this morning. 27-year-old jose pimentel alleged wanted to bomb the police and u.s. troops returning from the war. new york's mayor says it appears he acted alone. we have the details. >> reporter: 27-year-old jose pimentel was arraigned late sunday night in a new york city courthouse. >> had just finished drilling the third and final bomb. >> shaking his head as he listened to terror-related charges against him, including trying to build pipe-bombs. police say if pimentel had been able to build and place the bombs, this tape of an nypd test shows the damage he could have caused. at a sunday night news conference, new york city officials shocked a mock-up of the devices. some ingreed yendients bought al stores with the help of an nypd

informant, and police say pimentel was following bomb-making instructions straet out of al qaeda's "inspire" magazine. >> pimentel planned to test the effective of the bombs by planting them in mailboxes and detonating them. >> reporter: police say pimentel, born in the dominican republic, is a naturalized u.s. citizen who converted to islam and later became an al qaeda sympathizer, even starting his own radical website. under surveillance by the nypd since 2009, officials say he was angry over u.s. wars and the recent killing of terror leader of anwar al awlaki. >> the suspect was a so-called lone wolf, motivated by his own re zentment of the presence of american froops in iraq and afghanistan. >> reporter: prosecutors say for months they got the suspect on tape talking to the informant about his target list including bombing u.s. troops coming back home and new york city police. but the nypd says it moved in

now because pimentel was about to put his plan into action. >> that was wnbc with that report for you. new this morning for you the uc davis chief of campus police has been put on leave in the wake of his officers using pepper spray against protesters. more on that investigation next. hey buddy, wattaya lookin' a-oooh. ♪ [ female announcer ] mini™ meets berries. kellogg's® frosted mini-wheats cereal with a touch of fruit in the middle. helloooooo fruit in the middle. aisle 2. good. aisle 8. nice. trick question. walmart doesn't sell your mother. you're ready. [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. but we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. the only place to go on black friday. walmart. so you i've tried it.ait outside. but nothing's helped me beat my back pain. then i tried this.

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welcome back. we're going to go straight to weather. we're in a holiday weekend. let's take a look. >> richard, that music is a lot more fun than the weather going on in a lot of places. little rock, some flash flooding this morning, fog has plagued places like atlanta. the heavy rain continues from nashville into knoxville. we're concerned about later today, parts of texas.

nasty storms fire up in lubbock. we see that activity increase through the afternoon. from dallas to little rock to san angelo, damaging winds and hail possible, isolated tornadoes as well. as we track the system the next new days, big travel day. that severe weather threat moves into the southeast. as we go through tuesday, heavy rain continues in the ohio valley and eventually big travel day on wednesday taking up the entire east coast, i-95 wet and stormy from boston to new york into jacksonville. showers and thunderstorms there. we are clearing out from chicago in through little rock and dallas. that is good travel news as we head into thanksgiving, but definitely some tough travel weather today, if if today your day, richard. >> marimaria, it's a busy time week. thank you. here's a look at other stories. there's new fallout this morning from davis, california from the shocking video. it shows police officers shooting pepper spray at a group of seated protesters. uc davis has suspended the chief

of the police department and the president of the whole system is pauled by this here. kristen dahlgren is in davis california. the question might be out there. were the protesters doing anything to provoke this spraying? >> reporter: hey, richard. they were sitting peacefully on friday. they had their arms linked, but it was a passive protest. that's why it's drawn such outrage when people see that video that went viral over the weekend. there were calls all weekend for the chancellor of uc it to davis step down. thousands are expected out here today. it's expected today to be peaceful. the chancellor will address the crowd. you talked about the fallout we saw this morning, the campus police chief was placed on administrative leave over the weekend. the two officers involved in the incident were placed on leave. the chancellor here has ordered a task force to do an investigation. they have 30 days to come up with their findings, and then

the president of the entire uc davis system said he's appalled by the images he's seeing. he's getting the chancellors from aum of the state's campuses to come together to talk about how police handle peaceful demonstrations. >> how are the students and protesters doing sprayed there? >> reporter: you know, 11 of them were treated after the incident on friday. two of them were taken to the hospital for the effects of the pepper spray. but a lot of the other students here and saw it and those who heard about it and saw the video are absolutely outraged and he they say they're going to be out here later on today to show their support for the protesters. >> it's difficult to watch. kristen dahlgren, thank you. the obama administration is investigating whether iran supplied the libyan government hundreds of special artillery shells for chemical weapons. moammar gadhafi's government kept existence of these weapons secrets for decades. this was found in libya, and if

true this could increase tensions with iran. search efforts continue for a missing florida mother who vanished last week after the episode of "the people's court" she appeared on was aired. texas exsearch volunteers have joined the search from michelle parker who was heard through mechanics message. she appeared on "the people's court" but the family doesn't think he was involved. six months ago sharla nash's life changed when she received a face transplant she was waiting for after being mauled by a cripp chimpanzee in 2009. she spoke with meredith vieira on the "today" show. >> i can't feel the middle of my face like the top lip or nose. it's going to be a long time before everything can work.

i had people tell me you look beautiful, and nobody ever told me i was beautiful before. >> because of an infection after a bout with pneumonia, they had to remove the transplanted hands. she hopes to be approved in the next year. huge xhungs of the roadway falling into the pacific ocean as heavy rains pounded an area on sunday. the section of roadways were crumbling for months before it fell into the sea. there were no injuries or property damage reported, but officials are concerned larger landslides could occur in that area. why is this man so bleeping man at his fridge? the answer just ahead when we go down to the wire. some pre-thanksgiving heartburn on wall street where stocks are down this morning on news the debt super committee will likely fail to reach a deal. melissa francis is here with

what's moving your money. we're looking at a sea of red to start. how is it looking right now? >> it's a tough morning on wall street right now. the dow is down more than 200 points, better than 2%. stocks are suffering. half is what has to do with what's going on in jurp. stocks there much lower on the threat of another downgrade. same story. here in the u.s., obviously, we're waiting for the super committee to come out and follow on their sword and say they were unable to get a deal together. all of that is weighing very heavily on the market this morning. you can see it reflected mountain major indexinicendices. the holiday shopping season coming around. a naughty and nice list for us? >> in spite of the numbers you just saw and everything going on in the world, a lot of analysts are positive about consumer spending this holiday season. i guess they're sick of not spending. "consumer reports" put together a naughty and nice list, in case you're shopping. let's start with the nice list, because we're nice people. why not, right?

costco, rei, one of the most liberal return policies ever. amazon.com is on the nice list because of their frustration-free packages. live nation, and american express has a policy where if you buy something within 90 days and try to return it to the store and they won't let you, they will refund the money. american express will. i personally used that. that's real. that's the nice list. they had a not so nice list, your naughty list. radio shack was at the top of the list. they priced items differently online than in the store. don't you hate that? go online and it was half the price that it was in the store in this case. radio shack said for 99% for our products we have the same price in store and online, and from time to time we run pricing and merchandise testing online to gauge customers' behavior. guess what the behavior was? people were really mad. also on the naughty list is southwest. they made the list because they

want $10 ahead of time if you want to check in online, and then you get to go to the front of the line and you get to pile on first and get the best seat. i guess the complaint is it's not up-front pricing. the ticket isn't as cheap as you think. ten bucks? could be worse. there's a little roundup as you get ready to go your holiday shopping. richard, have you started yet? >> i have not. i'm going to that nice list and take care of it soon. >> that's a good idea. have graa great day. >> all righty. we'll be right back. we need the. [customer:] we need to protect the environment. [worker:] we could do both. is that possible? [announcer:] at conocophillips, we're helping power america's economy with cleaner, affordable natural gas. more jobs. less emissions. a good answer for everyone. well, if it's cleaner and affordable. as long as we keep these safe. there you go. thanks. [announcer:] conocophillips.

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short-lived? let's bring in dana mill vac and jennifer jacobs from "the des moines register." i want to play newt gingrich's comments on "occupy wall street" first. take a listen to that. >> that is a pretty good symptom of how much the left has collapsed as a moral system in this country and why you need to reassert something as simple as saying to them, go get a job right after you take a bath. >> does that play well in iowa, that harsh talk? >> well t-plays well in the republican primary electorate, which obsess yusly has no love lost for the "occupy wall street" protests. gingrich is trying to get in favor and keep the favor of the tea party movement. now, if he does succeed at that, and i think that's still a long shot, that sort of rhetoric is problematic when you have 14 million americans out of work and telling them to just go get a job. that's obviously not a very sensitive remark among

independent and moderate voters, should he get to a general election. >> this as he tries, of course, to get in his ground game going in the state. jennifer, even gingrich, though, admitting this weekend that his organization's not where it needs to be. is he too late to the party there in iowa? >> i don't think so. the republican caucus-goers are warming up to him here. he has a couple good organizers on the ground in iowa for him. i think they could try to get something going, although that's definitely key. it doesn't matter what the polls say. it's all about the ground game in iowa. that's for sure. >> how is romney doing? >> i think romney is doing pretty well, too. he has a lot of support amongst our establishment republicans here, probably a bigger stable of power horses than he's admitted yet. he has that new iowa head the quarters opening up. so he's definitely on the move here. >> it's wrapping up the investment there is in the

state. he's putting a stake there in the state of peers? >> he has a good shot here. >> dana, let's talk about mitt romney as well. let's continue on that vain. how much does iowa matter at the moment to him and to others? >> well, it matters a lot more than it did earlier, because the romney campaign thinks they have a serious shot there. they essentially were just ba g banking on a large win in new hampshire and sort of doing at least badly as possible. because there's been such a rise and fall there of michele bachmann and rick perry and herman cain and now newt gingrich, nobody has really emerged as a solid anti-romney, a solid alternative so that he very well may walk away with the thing, even though people don't exactly adore him. >> can he afford it to lose iowa and still win? >> he can afford to lose it narrowly. if iowa meant everything in republican caucuses, we'd have president mike huckabee right

now. >> jennifer, what's your thought? who can lose iowa and still live in this -- as we look forward to 2012, who can still do well? >> yeah. his campaign definitely thinks so. yeah, as a second or third place finish, and if he did well in new hampshire and then from then on i think he could. >> who can't lose in iowa, then? >> well, rick perry. rick perry needs to do very, very well here. then all the others. >> bachmann as well? >> all of them, yes. oh, definitely. >> bachmann, perry. if they don't do well here, they're done, you're saying, for the election? they're not going to get the nomination. dana, what's your thought looking forward? if those two don't do well in iowa, do they have a chance, though, as they look forward to new hampshire? >> not really. you sort of -- the one thing that iowa really can do is sort of give its feeling to the anti-romney. iowa does have that ability to say okay, it's romney, and who

is the alternative here? if that is gingrich or somebody else managed to emerge there, that gives him that ability. that person will lose in new hampshire, but you go to south carolina and other places. >> dana millbank and jennifer jacobs thank you. protesters in egypt plan a million man march in cairo tomorrow extending the biest and most deadly protest since the arab spring. there are demonstrations all across the country today, and the crowds are growing in tahrir square demanding an end to military rule. richard, what are you seeing right now? >> reporter: people are still arriving in tahrir square preparing for the million man march tomorrow. they will hold these mass demonstrations all week. this could be a turning point in the relations between the egyptian people and their military. if you remember back if egypt's original revolution against

president mubarak, the military stepped in and intervened to protect the protesters against his political party and against hired thugs, and the military has been the custodian of this country for almost the past year. now the people are coming out and saying they no longer trust the military, and they want the army to set a specific timetable for a transition to power to civilian rule. >> richard, you've been saying on twitter this could be a turning point in how egyptians view the army going forward. can you explain that, as well as some of the pictures you were sharing with people who are following you? >> reporter: the egyptians by now have quite a bit of experience in doing these kind of demonstrations, so people are arriving in the square. some are wearing gas masks, others have surgical masks which don't do anything against the thick tear gas that the egyptian police have been firing into one particular corner of the square all day, the corner that is around the interior ministry where the police are based.

they have also set up a makeshift health clinic, and some of the pictures i was sending were as people were arriving on motorcycles, being dropped off, some unconscious at the health clinic and volunteers try to revive them. the run this could be a turning point is that just a minutians have lost confidence in the army. they no longer trust the army to transition to democrat stee, and that's a significant change. >> what about islamic extremists? is there a large presence right now? is that a major concern? >> reporter: one of the groups that is calling for this million man march tomorrow is the muslim brotherhood. the muslim brotherhood is represented here, as are other even more radical islamic groups part of the political egyptian system now. there have been some clashes in northern sinai between egyptian authorities and a very radical group, a group considered a terrorism organization in egypt. as you have the breakdown of law

and order, aum of the factions rise up. some are egyptian nationalist groups. the people in the square know it's not fair to say they're all muslim brotherhood or all islamic radicals. you have a wide mix, but certainly the islam is part of them. >> can you describe behind what you the crowd is doing, who they are, how upset they are and what you see from that vantage point? >> reporter: where we are is we're over looking the center of tahrir square. that way the crowds are thicker where people are gathers in front of or near to the interior ministry. these crowds are just shouting. they're protesters. they're not clashing with police. the clashes are in one very small corner of this protest movement, and these people have come in to show their solidarity with the protesters who are clashing. whenever someone gets injured in the clashes, he's brought on a

motorcycle or sometimes just carried through these crowds to the aid station, which is not far from here, and then ambulances will take them away. the exact number of injured and dead has been changing throughout the day. we can say it's at least 22. that's a government figure. hospital figures are -- we'll say put the death toll around 30-plus, maybe even 33. the number of injured, if you consider all the people that have been suffocated approximate from t from the tear gas, it's certainly over 1,000. >> richard engel, thank you there in cairo for us with a live report. we'll have more for you right after this break. don't speak. i'll just leave you two alone. [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. more electronics start at midnight. and we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. walmart. and we're open all day and night smal l bu and we're open all day and night sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes.

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in the next hour of msnbc, finger pointing, blame game, call it what you want. the super committee will fail at reaching a timely compromise on the debt deal. newt gingrich leading the latest gop poll, and he sent a

special message from his 1% perch it to "occupy wall street" protesters, get a job after you take a bath. homeless for the holidays. sindy lauper is talking about her passion project of helping homeless lgbt youth get off the streets. we'll have that in the next hour. fashion your fridge and taylor swift's big win. check out this refrigerator getting punished. wonder what it did wrong? protesters in beijing insist there's a design flaw that makes the doors hard to close. they've reached tout to customers that complained and there's no technical issue. milas kunich went to the ball with sergeant moore. they released these photos. the big winner from the american music awards, taylor swift, they won the award and was crowned favorite female country artist and album.

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