>> russ in richmond, new hampshire. got in from a soak in my wood fire and hot tub. ready for the day. >> that sounds good. you do that before you go to go. that sounds fwogood. you do that before work? go out for a soak in the hot tub and it's wood fired. >> gary says can't sleep and the battery on my remote is dead so i can't change the channel and i'm too lazy to walk to the television. >> those are my favorite. we have a ton of those. what he's saying is he wants to change what's on his screen, which is me. he can't do it because the batteries are dead. frankly, he's just too lazy to change the channel. counts as a viewer. "morning joe" starts right now. i would pull out the simpson/bowls commission report and say here's our road map. we need presidential leadership. we need someone to stand up and say, we have a template. we've got some ideas on capitol

hill. we've done all the thinking. we just lack leadership. that's the problem, today, john. leadership has been completely missing in action. so in that void you have mischief making, you have partisanship, you have the extreme ends of the political spectrum that now are going to point fingers of blame and the work of the people is not going to get done. >> good morning. it is tuesday, november 22nd. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have executive editor of random house and pulitzer prize winning historian john meacham. are you guys already talking? >> tennessee here. >> harold's just in from -- >> absolutely. i don't know where that is. >> msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and associate editor of the "wall street journal" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. you like coming in at the top of the show, don't you?

isn't it fantastic? >> i'm such a morning person. not. >> isn't it great getting up so early. >> especially with good news like this. super committee. >> i'll tell you, the stej yche i'm so good with it, i keep it together. right down the middle. don't you think? >> every day. >> we've got a lot to talk about this morning. obviously that situation at uc davis with the occupy wall street protesters and the pepper spray. that is a bad situation. we'll get to that. in republican presidential politics, mitt romney has a new ad out which is very interesting. the obama administration is firing back. oh, michele bachmann has a book coming out. so we can add her to the list of people on book tour. >> when are they writing these books? >> you know, they've got the sell the books. isn't that what the presidential race is about? >> it's hard to write a book -- >> on the campaign bus. >> whether they've read them --

>> okay. we're going to start with the headline of the day. the failings of the super committee were felt far beyond washington as global stocks plunged on the gridlock in congress. european shares fell to seven-week lows while the major u.s. indices shed nearly 2% each. just hours before their midnight deadline the leaders of the bipartisan panel issued a statement about the deadlock. they say in part, despite our ability to bridge the committee's significant differences, we end this process united in our belief that the nation's fiscal crisis must be addressed and that we cannot lea leave it for the next generation to solve. >> that was your job. >> wait a minute. i thought that's what you were doing. that was the thing. then there are these triggers, right? going into effect immediately, right? >> you got it. >> righto. the breakdown of the super committee will trigger $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts over ten years including up to $600 billion from the defense

department that's already getting pushed back. a number of congressmen are already working to stop the military cuts slated to take effect in 2013. and defense secretary leon panetta says the automatic cuts to the military could, quote, tear a seam in the nation's defense. but president obama is vowing to block any effort to avoid the trigger, saying congress must stick to the guidelines of the deal. >> already some in congress are trying to undue these automatic spending cuts. my message to them is simple. no. i will veto any effort to get rid of those automatic spending cuts, domestic and defense spending. there will be no easy off-ramps on this one. >> hours before the super committee formally announced its failure, republican presidential front-runner mitt romney was ready to assign blame right on president obama. >> they set this trap by sending -- by saying we're going to cut the military by $600

billion. with the world as a dangerous place, we're going to put the military on the chopping block. it's like holding a gun to your own head. i can't imagine the circumstance that ever makes any sense at all. and then with that, as a possible outcome, you have a president who didn't get involved in the process. >> all right. we're slipping into politics here. newt gingrich also weighed in. we're going to get to that in a moment. let's first talk about what happened here. i also have parts of joe's piece in politico because he's still a bit under the weather because of his sinus surgery. although he says that it looks like i'm back on the decaff. it is only five minutes into the show. i think he wants me to hold back a little bit. i'm waiting on the newt bite. i'm waiting. moving it downstream a little bit. first of all, let's actually read from politico, this is joe's take. and then we'll throw it around the table. super committee failure puts u.s. at risk. here's a message to washington

politicians. duck. you're failure is now complete. you were faced with a generational challenge to save americans from the type of collapse european countries are now facing, and you blinked. actually, you did worse. instead of eradicating a historic threat that could have been solved by simple math, you ran for cover. watching the super committee all trot out their tire lined on the sunday talk shows make me sick. democrats were blabbing on about hiking taxes and republicans were prattling on about slashing spending. both were accusing the other side of intransigents while standing in a block of ideological cement. how pathetic. >> this is two times since august. since summer. congress presented with a chance to do its job. and it's failed, both parties. both parties will blame the other and try to assign more blame. i contend as judd gregg did in one of the papers yesterday, i think a lot of people are going to lose. i don't think they appreciate how fully american families,

american businesses are having to make difficult choices, sacrifices. and here they are presented with both incentives on each side to make cuts. republicans presumably don't like defense cuts. democrats presumably don't like cuts to human needs programs including education and housing. yet they both allowed automatic cuts to kick in beginning in 2013. i think it's -- it was a terrible day. the president said yesterday this was not as bad as august. maybe because s&p didn't react immediately. i think heading into thanksgiving, into the christmas toll day, this is the heaviest and biggest retail season of the year. for the american people and the consumer to see our government twice presented with this chance not able to act, mika, i don't think they understand the depth of the blow yet. and as much as i disagree with republican candidates often, i think the president and the white house will share a larger share of this blame than probably they should. but i think at the end of the day because he is the single individual that people look to most, the president is -- zblit

fa it falls on him. >> people are going to look to him. he may suffer more blame that he probably deserves in this process. >> eugene robinson, it's not like the president can force republicans to come to the table. what do you think happened? did democrats put enough on the table? >> first of all, this was a congressional committee. it wasn't a presidential committee. the president is the president. this was congress failing to act. >> the president signed the bill creating the commission. as well as created as we both know simpson/bowles. he deserves no more blame. all i'm saying in this situation i think he gets more. >> when you're president you get the blame or the credit. this was -- we kind of knew this was going to happen. we kind of knew they weren't going to -- going to reach this agreement or we thought it was unlikely. there's another side of this, though. if you stand back from it, we've

got 1$1.2 trillion in automatic cuts that are supposed to take effect. and if nothing is done, the bush tax cuts all go away. that's another, what, $4 trillion, or something like that, over a decade. in a sense we've just taken a huge bite out of the deficit. we've done it in a way -- not a planned way or orderly way and a way a lot of people are going to want to undo but that's technically what we've done. >> a lot of the this is europe and their charges. they've been unable to recapitalize their banks and make what some say would be tough choices around austerity. i agree with willie. the point he made from the beginning. this was their job. they might as well not have met if they were going to allow automatic tax cuts to kick in and bush tax cuts to expire. >> they didn't meet much. >> nor should the american people, for that matter, global investors. >> the dow, of course, down almost 300 points yesterday.

john, i was struck a couple days ago by a quote from one of the co-chairs of the committee. he said reality -- anticipating the failure. reality is starting to overtake hope. kind of a stunning admission that the reality is we can't get anything done because we are so far apart and we are so idealogically bound, as joe said, sitting in ideological concrete. this is the reality. that was the message to me and to america. this is the reality in washington. >> the great question is, historically and practically is, to go to harold's point, does it take a wave election on the hill to change that? it only takes a wave election if people now -- if you're a hard core partisan, you're quite happy with the way things are. right? you like gridlock. the old argument about you like gridlock and it's a de facto way of -- if you're republican, it's a de facto way of checking spending. democrats like being upset. as a matter of course.

and if there's not -- if people who are sharing that view from the congressman and who are like, as harold's saying, believe that there's got to be a grown-up solution to use a term the president uses, they've got to vote for people who will do that. and the hardest thing to do, and you know this and joe knows this, the hardest thing to do is run in the middle in the congressional race or a senate race. so at this point, i was going to say something about all of us. at this point i think congress -- before now has tended to reflect the cognitive dissidents of the american people. cut that guy's program, but mine's just fine. i think that's beginning to change. >> i do, too. a couple of things. we're going to actually slide into politics right now. but first i just want to read the last section of joe's politico piece about this. because it dovetails perfectly

into where we're going to start in the political race. what this means for politicians is another chaotic campaign cycle. with one incumbent after another getting chased from power. what it means for america is much worse. our leaders are unworthy of our trust. they have no moral authority to lead. the president is weak and not up to the task of running the white house. congress is even worse with an approval rating mired in single digits. if the cavalry is coming it better ride from the west crick. fwhooer a hell of a mess and thanks to washington's bumbling i fear it's going to get much worse. to politics now, newt gingrich weighed in on the failing of the super committee. and he had kind of a different take. he thought it was good for america. take a listen. >> it's not that washington is inherently gridlocked. it is that the current players behaving in the current way are inherently gridlocked. partly the president's fault, partly the congress's fault, but it's a mess. and they were trying to break

out of the mess by, in my judgment, being even dumber. that is creating a committee of 12 picked by the political leadership to magically get in a room to come up with something that 535 couldn't solve. >> eugene? >> this is one of the few things on which newt gingrich has been consistently. he has consistently opposed the super committee on theoretical grounds. on the kind of separation of power fwrounds. we've got a congress. we've got a president. they're supposed to work this sort of thing out. they should work it out. we shouldn't have to resort to these sort of extra constitutional means, as he would say. this is consistent. >> let's be clear. at the end of the day what separated the two sides, i thought john kerry articulated pointedly and concisely on gregory's show over the weekend. one, the republicans would not agree to negotiate anything around tax cuts. they believed extension of the bush tax cuts were essential to the deficit reduction deal. on the face it's oxymoronic and

hypocrite cal. remember, democrats were willing to make all of the middle-class cuts permanent. 98.5% of americans would have enjoyed tax cuts for another six years. another four years. the same amount we have now, another ten years. they only wanted to raise it on the top 1%. newt gingrich in fairness in '94, he gave in. because he was outmaneuvered by bill clinton, but he eventually gave in. jeb hencerling and the other republicans, at the end of the day they gave in to another fellow. i give the president a lot. i don't give the president out on this because he should have been more involved. at the end of the day republicans were beholden to one ideology, one document and one person. that's groverr norquist.

what judd gregg said yesterday in the "wall street journal" and others are saying, you're going to see, i think, a new group of republicans and democrats. i'm not sure the make-up changes. i hope it does and democrats take the majority. whatever the case i think you will see a whole new cast of personnel committed to the things that jon started talking about, saying i'm not just going to cut my program. i'll cut your program for the safety of mine. we're going to cut all these programs. >> how does grover norquist play into the point you're about to make. >> grover norquist, i remember bush 41 in the beginning sensing problems with the id lodeologic purity. rick perry just signed a pledge he's against islamic law which was very helpful, i thought. very reassuring. >> it's worked. >> i think there have got to be, again, a wave of moderates have got to get into this. it's expensive and it's painful and it's awful.

and we all know that the caucuses have never been more idealogically pure. but we have to figure out a way to do that. the second thing is in the last two examples where we've had this kind of showdown and this kind of crisis, 1990 and 1995 -- >> i said '94. i meant '95. i'm sorry. >> that's all right. it's memphis. people from chattanooga can count. west tennessee has had a hard time with numbers for a long time. but in those two years, what did you have? you had presidents negotiating. >> yep. >> george h.w. bush lost his job because he did the right thing, and he knew it. bill clinton very well could have. but, you know, he's like the bop bag. he gets back up. i just think you have to have a president who's more engaged. and then the folks who listen to people like us talk and who nod sagely over their coffee, they've got to actually support someone in the system who has a chance of being elected, who has

a chance to go up there and vote on some of this and actually vote on simpson/bowles. >> if i could point out, the president did have negotiations at the white house over budget, over a long period of time. and, you know, look what it got us. it got us the super committee. >> that's no reason -- government, having served in it, you cannot on monday, tuesday and wednesday say i worked all of last week to get this done, come next week not be willing to do it. i'm not blaming the president. that argument, that excuse, i don't think -- >> but insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. >> i'm going to read this from paul krugman. and then hopefully we'll get joe on the line here. this is -- i'm sorry. not from the "wall street journal." it's paul krugman. let's read from the "wall street journal." thank you, grover norquist. this is the paper's editorial. so it's all grover norquist's

fault. democrats and the media are singing in unison. not to enhance this beltway fable, but thank you, mr. norquist. by reminding republicans of their anti-tax promises he has helped to expose the real reason for the super committee's failure. the two parties disagree profoundly on a vision of government. we've been talking a lot on the phone just about what's been going on here. let's bring joe in. how are you feeling? >> not so great. i'm coming along. i thought i was going to be in today. can i just say the decaf is working very well for you this morning. >> more like a tranquilizer. but that's okay. >> that's what they're calling xanax. >> we're not done yet. that's the risky statement after yesterday. talk to me about grover norquist. what we were talking about on the phone is great in light of what we're saying here.

>> i had not read "the wall street journal" editorial yet. but i heard harold ford, my dear, dear, democratic friend harold ford, talk about grover norquist. with all due respect to the right honorable gentleman from tennessee, new york, the hamptons -- >> florida, nantucket. tell me what the florida, nantucket perspective is on this. >> blaming grover norquist for this collapse is the lamest democratic fiction since the tonk and gulf incident. like lbj said a couple of years later, they were shooting at ghosts or whales. yet that was his excuse to go into vietnam. grover norquist for anybody that works in washington, d.c., understands that like a lot of people in washington, he's got his own point of view. but grover holds no magical power over anybody. he's not -- he's not really a powerful guy. his idea may be powerful to conservatives.

but he in of himself is not a powerful guy. but the ridiculous part of this argument that you're going to hear in the media over the next couple of days -- as you know in my column i blamed republicans and democrats equally as i always do. but democrats have the president of the united states. right? they've got the united states senate. the world's most deliberative body. the upper chamber. what else do they call them? america's most exclusive club. they haven't produced a budget in over 900 days. the president of the united states, a democrat, appoints a commission to take care of the debt. and then he ignores everything that commission says. anybody today trying to blame grover norquist or to suggest that grover norquist is somehow

more powerful than the president of the united states and the united states senate, which everybody in washington knows runs washington. it's not the house. it is the upper chamber. and the democrats own it. they are close to a monopoly of washington, d.c. but to blame this on -- on grover norquist is laughable. >> joe, no one blamed him fully. he's part of it. >> no. he's not part of it. >> he is part of it, joe. you can't suggest he's not part of it. >> grover doesn't control an army. grover can't raise taxes. grover can't produce a budget. he has a single sheet of paper that some people signed a decade ago. >> but grover can primary republicans and you and i both know republicans made that point. he's not fully responsible. he's not fully responsible, joe, but he's part of it. so is president obama. i don't disagree with you. i made the point that obama should have been more involved. to say that grover didn't have a role i think is being unfair -- >> this is a strong man to end all strong men.

grover norquist has been a straw man. republicans haven't even been in charge of the house of representatives for a year. it's as if 2009 and 2010 and the massive deficits that were accumulated then didn't even exist. but, again, i'm blaming both sides today. both sides have their feet in ideological cement. but grover norquist is a straw man. the democrats, the democrats, these same democrats that said that george w. bush abused the powers of office and, oh, the executive branch had become too powerful, are now suggesting barack obama, who, by the way, has been completely awol on this issue, is power less? a man who put a debt commission in -- he put simpson/bowles together and then completely threw them under the bus. mika, you and i, if i ever come back, then i'll shut up, we have to get senate democrats on this program and start asking them exactly why in the midst of america's greatest budgetary

crisis in 235 years they have refused, stubbornly, to produce a budget for over 900 days. >> all right. i'm going to give you the last word, joe. but i do think that your argument about grover, although i understand the concept of it, to say that the -- it almost, it seems like, the republicans are going to play the victim here. and i don't think -- i think your piece in politico sums it up pretty well. that both sides failed. and that they're not victims. and grover norquist is -- he has a role in this. "60 minutes" did a piece on him on sunday for a reason. >> the president of the united states is still president of the united states. democrats control the united states senate. grover norquist's idea may be a strong one. grover norquist has absolutely no power in washington, d.c. other than the idea he carries. i am so surprised that democrats really believe that the presidency is as weak as they believe it is now.

that this president couldn't step forward and show at least a little bit of leadership. he has been awol since he and bane ere failed on the debt ceil ing. he better engage quickly or else we're going to way of europe. >> joe, thank you. coming up, senate majority whip dirk durbin will be here. we'll ask him about this. also we're going to have betty white onset. we'll watch what happens live with bravo's andy cohen. after the break our first look at politico's top stories of the morning. plus, hugh grant now at the center of the british tabloid phone hacking scandal testifying with scathing details about his own personal battles with the press. you'll hear what he had to say. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> a very difficult travel out there the next two days. two big storms on the map greeting everyone as they try to get to their thanksgiving destination. rain moving in pittsburgh, new york, philadelphia, d.c. heaviest rains will be later on tonight. tomorrow this area is just going

to get a ton of rain. a nasty wednesday morning will greet everyone. northern new england is going to get a snowstorm from burlington to bangor. all of northern new england covered in snow come wednesday afternoon. right now the worst of that commute is down in the deep south from memphis all the way to louisiana. that's the worst of it on your tuesday. anyone joining us in the pacific northwest, that's the other huge storm. we'll talk more about that as the morning progresses. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. i'm an expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there.

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halloween party at the firm that showed employees wearing costumes mocking the homeless. part of the office was decorated to resemble a row of foreclosed homes. >> financial times says the short fall in ff global customer accounts has doubled in size to $1.2 billion. this according to to a court-appointed trustee investigating the collapse of the company run by former new jersey governor jon corzine. regulators are investigating what happened to the money and whether mf global may have improperly mixed public money wits own. the philadelphia inquirer says penn state university named former fbi director louis freeh to the investigation. freeh said he would assemble a team of former prosecutors and agents to undertake the review. >> the front page of journal has a big story about penn state as well. parade of papers, an interview

with the new hampshire leader. newt gingrich says he would use cyber warfare to bring about regime change in iran. he also said he would use military force if our government believed iran was truly on the edge of getting nuclear weapons. let's turn to politico now with us, the white house correspondent there, mike allen. he's got a look at the play book. >> good morning. >> i want to get to this ad mika mention add little while ago. mitt romney going after president obama in the state of new hampshire. let's watch. >> thank you, new hampshire! i am confident that we can steer ourselves out of this crisis. who's been in charge of the economy? we need a rescue plan for the middle class. we need to provide relief for homeowners. it's going to take a new direction. if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose, lose, lose. >> i'm going to do something to government. i call it the smaller, simpler, smarter approach to government. getting rid of programs, turning programs back to states, and,

finally, making government itself more efficient. >> now, the white house says the speech used in that ad has been taken out of context a little bit, mike. we're going to place -- here's what then senator obama actually said during that campaign stop in october of 2002. let's listen. >> senator mccain's campaign actually said, and i quote, if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose. >> mike, let's go back to the ad. effective? we'll talk about whether or not it's out of context, there, which we just saw. the effect of the ad. what do you think? >> if you read the fine print of the romney release or if you read dnc fact checks you know what the president, then senator, actually said. he was quoting a mccain adviser. if you're one of the new hampshire residents who's watching this $140,000 bye that starts there today, all you hear is the part where it sounds like president obama is talking about himself when he says if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose. the romney campaign says they

own this. they're doing this deliberately. they called yesterday -- they called around to reporters yesterday to tell them the full context of this. they said that they're doing this deliberately to say that the shoe is on the other foot now. that president obama is now doing what he accused senator mccain of doing which was avoiding talking about the economy. one problem with that, president obama is in new hampshire today. that's why the ad is launching, to bracket him. and he's going to be talking about, wait for it, the economy. >> yes. in particular about the payroll tax cut. jon? >> quick thing, mike. just why, given all the material that's out there, would they -- would romney run the risk of cooking up a processed story about something out of context? >> i don't know the answer to that. but they may like a story about this, calling attention to what president obama has said in the past. so campaigns sometimes can cook up these stories to give them ancillary benefits to the

commercials they're seeing. i think the honest answer is that 99.99% of the people who are familiar with this commercial will see just that little clip. >> i was going to say, you got the e-mail about the context. i don't think the voters in new hampshire will get it. mike allen, thanks so much for a look inside the play book. coming up next, some football. tom brady and the patriots roll over the chief monday night. new england looking like the team, perhaps, to beat in the afc. sports is next. looking good! you lost some weight. you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. multigrain cheerios...

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37 past the hour. actor hugh grant has opened a new chapter in the british tabloid phone hacking scandal. in front of a british judge yesterday, grant launched a string of accusations, not just as the news of the world paper, but at nearly all the british tabloids. amid his detailed complaints, grant also gave evidence about how his apartment had been broken into. >> this flat had been broken into. the front door had been basically just shoved off its hinges. and, as i say, nothing was

stolen, which was weird. and the police, nevertheless, came around the next day to talk about it and the day after that. a detailed account of what the interior of my flat looked like appeared in one of the british tabloid papers. if someone like me called the police for a burglarly, a mugging, something in the street, something that happened to me or my girlfriend, the chances are that a photographer or reporter would turn up on your doorstep before a policeman. >> the tribunal also heard from the parents of 13-year-old murder victim milli doweler. reports allegedly they hacked the young girl's phone after she went missing, deleting messages on her voice mail. >> it clicked through on to her voice mail. so i heard her voice. >> yes. >> and i was -- it was just like i jumped. she's picked up her voice mails! she's alive! it was then, really.

when we were told about the hacking, that is the first thing i thought. >> we'll be following that story. clearly, there's a line. there's got to be a line. and it's got to be much farther back than any of these tabloids go. they make money on people's lives like this and torture people, truly. i don't know. we'll follow that story. i hope that line is coming soon. >> i think the other tabloids need to be looked into, too, frankly. they have a lot of the same kinds of stories. clearly, i think the murdoch empire went further, perhaps. but the others went down that same road, i think. >> absolutely. there has to be huge, huge consequences for this. time now for sports. willie, you have that. >> yeah. let's do a little monday night football. foxborough. patriots hosting the chiefs. four minutes left in the half. tom brady e. look at the big man rumble. tiptoeing along the sideline. in for the touchdown.

52-yard td reception. the longest of the big man's career. third quarter. going to find him again. catches the ball around the 19. about the 20. breaks a tackle. goes head over heels into the end zone. knocked himself a little woozy as you'll see here. he kind of staggers. >> tough, tough land. >> worried about him for a minute. he got up and walked out. in fact, he was able to spike the ball afterward. he's okay. about a minute later, patriots again. back for the punt. slips the first tackler, then busts it outside then back up the middle. 72 yards for the touchdown. the punter had no chance there. pats out to a 21-point lead. they go on to blow out kansas city 34-3. new england getting a little breathing room in the afc east. 7-3. jets and bills losing this weekend, 5-5. dolphins down at 3-7. in baseball justin verlander becomes the first starting pitcher since roger clemens in 1986 to be voted most valuable player. he adds the honor to the cy young award he won just last week. verlander went 24-5 over the

2011 season. 250 skrikouts. 2.40 e.r.a. rookie of the year in 2006. he becomes just the second player in baseball history to win all three major awards. rookie of the year, cy young, and mvp. the other one? anybody know? >> no. >> it's in the prompter. brooklyn dodger don newcome. >> you were saying that. >> i was. harold and i were coming in. >> when you were holding your channel 13 tote bag? >> i didn't say it. >> tote bag talking about justin verlander. >> i love getting fashion counsel, willie. coming up next, mika's must read opinion pages. a little bit later, the 31 days that changed america. a new book offers fresh revelations about the attack on pearl harbor, including the profound change it had on our economy. more "morning joe" when we come back. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future.

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i bought into the whole idea of the super committee. well, guess what? three months later, we -- we don't have -- i don't know. q-tips? i don't know. we don't -- so it's embarrassing. it's just humiliating, and it's -- so i'm thinking to myself, well, all right. let's go to the candidates. what would herman cain do? >> oh, my lord. all right. live look at washington, d.c. a foggy, rainy, jefferson memorial at 45 past the hour.

welcome back to "morning joe." time now for the must-read opinion pages. we're going to start with david brooks "new york times." the two moons is the title. each party is too weak to push its own agenda and too encased by its own con coop to agree to a hybrid. members of the super committee took brave steps outside party orthodoxy but they were baby steps insufficient to change the alignment. in normal circumstances minority parties suffer a series of electoral defeats and then they modernize. in the era of the two moons the parties enjoy periodic election victories they don't deserve which only reinforce their worst habits. so it's hard to see how we get out of this unless some third force emerges. which wedges itself into one of the two parties. or unless we have a devastating fiscal crisis. it looks like we're headed toward a crisis. i don't know how we -- we get

beyond this. if the automatic triggers go into effect, eugene, there are going to be people saying that those will have dramatic consequences. but my gut is we might not even get there, which would be more nothing. >> we might not get there. i mean, you know, there is a -- there is a divide here. david writes that the parties win elections they don't deserve to win. but, in fact, i don't know exactly what that means. you know, they have constituencies out there. and there are people who voted for the democrat sweep in 2006 and 2008. and then voted for the republican sweep in 2010. and so there ought to be some sort of self-reflection going on here. and, you know, if you -- if you want to change things, go out and get the votes. >> and you have this tiny window. i think that my favorite example, and this is the 48th anniversary, i think, of -- of president kennedy's death. and lyndon johnson, for all his

legislative capacity abilities, the great society, this towering figure, he had about 1,000 days himself running from the time he took office until ronald reagan became the governor of california in 1966. and so everything that happened -- we had a consensus for about 12 months. and i think when historians look back on this presidency, the two missed moments are going to be right when obama came in and then right after the handover in '09. i mean, in '11. and i just think that you only -- you know this from running. you can make a courageous vote if you have time to explain it. making a courageous vote close to election gets ever harder. >> yeah. >> these guys, again, i don't think they fully understand, democrats, republicans in the house and the senate. this is two bites at the apple.

you opened with david letterman which was a joke the way he characterized it. the beginning part was serious. this is two bites at the apple. there's been failure on both fronts. at some level the american people stand back and say, you talk about the crisis there, too. there's a huge one with our financial problem. there's a second. joe and i agreed a while back that people overstated the dysfunction of government. i disagree with my statement back a few months ago. i think we are now seeing a crisis in how government operates. if democrats can't be insent vised to make smart choices and better choices, if republicans can't be incent vised to do it, the personnel has to change. you've got to bring new people in to get this done. >> harold, i wonder, though, this goes back to the debate that you, joe and i were having about grover norquist. if there are other forces now fueled by the media and fueled by different ideological corners that are now almost sort of, in a way, decimating the potential

for congress. >> the only way you defeat bullying is you stand up to a bully. when you're in school and there's someone that beats up, someone's got to stand up to him. this is a salute to grover. we're saluting him this morning. what he's able to accomplish he should be -- >> there are those who argue he didn't do it. >> you have to stand up to a bully. i think he's done a great job of bullying republicans and bullying that he will primary them. not to let president obama off the hook. there's a third thing the president may not regret. if he's not successful in '12 it will be that he did not embrace simpson/bowles and push it aggressively all last summer leading into labor day. >> mayor michael bloomberg chiming in saying the failure of the super committee is a disaster, that both sides failed and the president failed. >> jon, historically, do we row mant size the relationships presidents and congress have? we talk a lot about reagan and tip o'neil and all these relationships. is president obama's -- let's call it a lack of relationship with congress. is it exceptional? worse than normal?

sfwl it's a little worse than normal. even though he was there, my sense is he doesn't particularly like people. politicians who don't like people are kind of in the wrong business. >> kind of. >> kind of. i really believe this. so reagan liked to perform for people. so he could bring them in and it would be a small audience. >> bill clinton, same thing. >> george h.w. bush. all of his life was one long reunion mixer. bill clinton loved people. so i think that is a -- i think this is a personality distinction. >> all right. willie's news you can't use is next. we'll be right back. ♪ our machines help identify early stages of cancer, and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor,

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i need it to be time. is it time? >> it is. it's time for news you can't use. michele bachmann was in this very building last night doing jimmy fallon's show. as you may remember, jimmy has been working on his impersonation of the congresswoman. this was him a few weeks ago. >> hi. i'm michele bachmann. some polls have me at 2%. but 2% really isn't that bad. i mean, 2% milk is still milk. 2% milk is good on any cereal. honey nut cheer owes. total. sometimes i mix total with the cheerios. i call them totally olios.

>> last night jimmy had michele bachmann on his show as a guest and took the opportunity to work a little bit on his minnesota accent. >> i'm not good at doing the minnesota. >> okay. try it again, now. minnesota. minnesota. >> sota. >> that was good. minnesota. >> minnesota. >> no. that's irish. that's irish. >> cup of cheerios. >> no. that was irish. see, cheerios. >> cheerios and total in cheerios bowly bowly os. i'm going to give you one word. you give me the first word that comes into your head. >> okay. >> romney. >> hair. no, just a minute. >> you can't say more than one word. you have another one? >> vice president. >> cain. >> nine. >> palin. >> gorgeous.

gorgeous. >> obama. >> finished. >> perry. >> that's not one word. i've got to do three. >> yeah. >> governor, texas, i can't remember the third one. oops. >> last one. bachmann. >> president. >> there you go. very good, everybody. >> she did pretty well. >> she did great. wow. >> she was very funny last night. by the way, coming up a little later on this very program, sitting maybe even right there, the great betty white. >> no. come on, now. come on, now. >> cannot wait to meet betty white. she'll be on a little later. next, we'll talk to the former u.s. comptroller general, david walker. also, andrea mitchell joins the conversation. keep it on "joe." ♪

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the super committee, in case you don't know, is to committees what cuts is to cuts. i think the problem is there were consequences for the country if they didn't get this done. but there are no consequences for the committee members themselves. hear me out. if we had fed each committee member a poisoned cupcake, something that takes a month to kill you, and told them that once they came to an agreement they could have the antidote, i'm not a political scientist, but i have a feeling the process may have gone more smoothly.

>> welcome back to "morning joe." rainy day in washington and new york. live look at the white house where the lights are on and the sun is trying to come up over the city. eugene robinson is still with us. joining the table now, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. and former u.s. comptroller general and head of the government accountability office and founder, president, ceo of comeback america initiative dave walker joins us this morning. really great group to have along with willie and me. a lot to talk about. we'll go straight into the super committee. real quickly, there was also a news conference today, students from the university of california davis are going to be holding that news conference, of course, amid the mounting out rage over the pepper spray incident. police using pepper spray on nonviolent students last week. newt gingrich posting strong gains in the last few weeks, according to the latest national polls from quinnipiac. we'll try and get to that in a bit. >> sums it up, mia. while you're reading through the

story, the front page of "usa today." "super fail." talking about the super committee. >> that's it. super fail. did anyone think they were going to win? >> i thought they would do better than they did. i think this is the largest failure of a political committee in modern history. they were given extraordinary powers. an expedited process. they spent three months. and they came up with absolutely nothing. i think really what it's indicative of is the huge leadership deficit that we have in washington. the fact that we've got more partisanship than ever. the ideological extremes are -- have really taken over. the special interests are trumping the public interests. and so now i think we have to figure out what's the way forward? because it's worse than we thought. >> andrea, what's driving the deep divide and almost what seems like a world in washington operating one way and then the rest of america suffering? obviously it's some of the headlines of this is that european shares fell to seven-week lows.

while the major u.s. indices shed nearly 2% each. global stocks plunged on word of the gridlock in congress. just hours before their midnight deadline, the leaders of the bipartisan panel issued a statement. this is what they said. this feeds into my initial question to you about two different worlds. despite our inability to bridge the committee's significant differences, we end this process united in our belief that the nation's fiscal crisis must be addressed and that we cannot leave it for the next generation to solve. andrea, i thought it was their job. >> it was their job. it's laughable, those comments. i mean, the fact is when this started, 12 people in a room, i thought naively that, perhaps, there was a chance because they had so many templates. they had rivlin do min chi. they had simpson/bowles. they had the game plan that the biden group had worked on. they had the gang of six. there were plenty of plans out there they could have patched together any of those plans and

come up with something. and the fact -- >> they wouldn't. >> the fact that they failed shows just how deeply the divide, the two wings are just pushing people apart. what began when i first started covering congress years ago, where you had a bipartisan group of fairly moderate republicans and democrats who worked together and came up with solutions and then came to the white house or you had white house leadership, mike bloomberg just came out swinging. he's going to be, by the way, on our show today at 1:00. >> very good. very good. >> he is just voicing what a lot of people are saying. which is that the white house also failed. that the fact that the president did not embrace his own simpson/bowles commission back then could turn out to be one of the -- the real turning points. >> why not that? why did we end up here? it set the president for failure, to an extent. bloomberg, to use his words,

calls this a disaster. >> you've been at the forefront sounding the alarm on debt and deficit. it's important for people to understand why this is the largest failure in modern history. what is at stake, what continues to be at stake now that this has failed. what did we need out of that committee that we didn't get? >> the financial condition in the united states is much worse than most people realize. we're not exempt from the laws of prudent finance. our situation, frankly, is worse than many of the european countries we're seeing in the news now. we have more time because we're the largest economy. we're the temporary sole super power. we have the largest reserve currency in the world. but we don't have unlimited time. we're talking about the need to put our finances in order if we want to keep america great, want our standard of living to continue to improve and make domestic tranquility in our streets. that's what we're talking about. i think we have to look at history. ross perot. ross perot made a huge

difference. let me give you some stats. when ross perot ran in 1992, spending was at 22% of gdp. now it's 24%. the deficit was 4.7% of gdp. now it's 8.7%. the debt was 64% of the economy. now it's 99%. all those numbers are moving in the wrong direction. in the last 11 years the bottom has fallen out. both political parties are to blame. it's time that we promote progress over partisanship. >> yeugene? >> we'll talk about this -- the way things used to be and used to have these sort of moderate democrats and republicans who would get together. we don't have that now. >> right. >> and so, you know, to -- to paraphrase -- we're going to -- >> or change the way we -- >> we changed congress. back and forth every couple years now. between democrats and republicans. that hasn't seemed to work. we're going to have to find some way to do this in a polarized

environment. because i think it's naive to think that all of the sudden we're going to get unpolarized. >> i'm just saying, gene, that we didn't used to be this polarized and we changed back and forth between democrats and republicans. there are different kinds of democrats and different kinds of rps because the way money has infected our politics and the way the wings now are supported by their special interest groups means that you don't have a sensible center. >> dave walker, i want to ask you about grover norquist. first, the breakdown of the super committee will trigger $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts over ten years, including up to $600 billion from the defense department. now, a number of congressmen are already working to stop the military cuts slated to take effect in 2013. and defense secretary leon panetta says the automatic cuts to the military could, quote, tear a seam in the nation's defense. but president obama is vowing to block any effort to avoid the triggers, saying congress must stick to the guidelines of the deal. take a listen. >> already some in congress are

trying to undo these automatic spending cuts. my message to them is simple. no. i will veto any effort to get rid of those automatic spending cuts, domestic and defense spending. there will be no easy off-ramps on this one. >> all right. so now there's going to be a fight over the triggers. i think people are going to -- if they're not glazing over already about washington being able to get anything done, they may be starting now. we had a debate last hour about grover norquist's impact on this entire situation. do you think he has power? do you think he has the power to intercede in something happening from the super committee? and did he play a role that some argue was not primary? >> i think that there's no question the americans for tax reform which grover norquist is the head of does have more influence than they should have. but it's not just groups on the right like the americans for tax reform. it's also groups on the left.

you know, these members should not be making pledges to special interest groups. whether they're on the right or the left. grover norquist is unrealistic with regard to how we're going to solve our problem. we're going to need more revenues. we need to get it through comprehensive tax reform. aarp is also unreasonable because they were out there telling ads saying that seniors have earned or paid for their social security and medicare benefits. that's false. that is false. most have not. >> how much impact did those influences on the right or the left have, the aarp, grover norquist, "60 minutes" profiled in their lead piece on sunday. i would argue that there is -- there is some sort of cross-dimension, intersection of different forces into the process now that have muddied it. >> will is no question. but what we need is the following. a, we need congressional rule changes. no labels is going to come out on december 13th with a number of proposed congressional rule changes to try to deal with the current reality. secondly we need redistricting reform. we need integrated open

primaries. campaign finance reform. we need term limits. the founders never intended for -- for us to have career politicians. you know, we've been dominated by the extreme idealogs with regard to the primaries. we've got career politicians more concerned with keeping their job than doing their job. >> i'm not sure i agree about term limits. i think we over history have had really extraordinary members of the house and senate who were veterans and who really understood and learned their craft. and learned how to make committees work. and the difference is the redistricting process. the money. and the way our -- the way our elections are being held. >> i'm, i think, more with andrea. everything, david, you said, maybe the term limits, i'm not sure. everything else, redistricting and money, are hugely important in this. because they help the polarization. and, you know, the money. you know, you have campaign finance reform every few years.

and before the ink is dry of a legislation, the loopholes have already been kind of built into the system. >> you need white house leadership. and i really do feel that perhaps they felt tactically that it was best for them to be hands off and not get dragged into the august debt ceiling debacle chapter two. but i think long term, people a are going to be asking questions about why there wasn't leadership on both sides of pennsylvania avenue. >> david, what's the reality of what happened inside that room? you looked at some of the numbers. we heard sunday on "meet the press" both sides beginning to blame each other because they knew how this was going to end. we hear from one side republicans won't raise taxes. their refusal caused the failure of the super committee. we hear from the other side that the refusal of democrats to look seriously at entitlements was the problem. what's the truth in there and where can we find middle ground? where should they have found middle ground? >> the truth is, is that government has grown too big, promised too much, waited too long to restructure. the last 11 years have been the

most irresponsible in the history of the united states fiscally. both political parties are to blame. the problem is primarily a spending problem, probably 3-1. we're going to have to get a lot of that through restructure wk the social insurance contract in phases over time. we're also going to need more revenues and we're going to have to get that through comprehensive tax reform. so they're both wrong. they're both responsible for where we are today. they both need to be part of the solution. but the way we're going to change it is the first three words of the constitution are going to come alive. "we the people." we are responsible and accountable for what does or does not happen. these people need to have consequences for their failure. in the private sector, in the not for profit sector, you would have consequences for failure. these people need to have consequences for their failure. >> in some cases there might even be reward for it. which is frightening. i want to round out this block by just looking at the backdrop here which is a presidential e le election. newt gingrich is posting strong

gains in the last few week. that's according to the latest national polls from quinnipiac. gingrich has more than doubled his share of the republican vote from the start of november from 10% to 26%. mitt romney coming in second with 22%. down slightly from about three weeks ago. herman cain, however, has seen his share of the vote cut in half down from 30% to 14%. when it comes to head to head match-ups with president obama, mitt romney performs the best in a statistical tie with the president. newt gingrich, on the other hand, trails president obama by nine points while herman cain down 13 points from the president. when republican voters are asked which of the current front-runners, mitt romney or newt gingrich has the best chance to beat obama, romney leads gingrich 38% to 23%. i want to get a sense of newt's gains and and overall look at the polls. does it tell you anything new? >> newt gingrich is the sixth republican in this cycle to be leading the polls. that tells you exactly how

incredible a roller coaster this has been. unprecedented. gingrich is, you know, to his credit, he has managed to use the debates which is his natural skill, to come back from near political death in june when he lost his campaign staff and had all the other controversies. and now is responding to a series of controversies, not just the personal, but also the political. his past positions. with a 13-point rebuttal on his website which goes into his marriages, his divorce, his past support for the individual mandate. and this is -- this is sort of wonderfully gingrich style. he explains that he was in favor of the individual mandate when it was to rebut the clinton health care proposals. but then turned against it when he realized how badly it worked in massachusetts under mitt romney. so he manages to, you know, that's a bank shot. >> that's a bank shot. that's a total bank shot. one thing that you notice, though, mitt romney, 22%.

23%. that's where he has been. the entire cycle he's always right there. then these others -- >> is that a floor or a ceiling, though? >> that's a good question. we don't know if it's a floor or ceiling. >> i think we have to keep in mind these are primary voters. by definition, much more conservative than the population as a whole. i think what this is selling you is the conservative base of the republican party is not comfortable with mitt romney. on the other hand, i expect that he will be the nominee. it's going to be a very interesting time. because the majority of americans don't think that president obama deserves re-election. frankly that was the case when president bush 43 was re-elected. ultimately you're going to end up having a situation of you've got to vote for "a" or "b." the real question is are we going to have a "c" in 2012? >> let me ask you that. actually, let me go back to the republicans because i'm curious. you say, you're right, this is primary voters. this is conservative base. do they want to pick a candidate who can beat obama, or do they want to pick a candidate who is

completely aligned with every facet of their philosophies and ideals? >> in the end i think they'll pick a candidate who they believe can beat president obama. >> are you suggesting the third party is viable this year when you said what is the "c"? >> i think you have to wait and see. i think it's very possible. the people are very upset. there's absolutely no question about it. i can tell you there's been a number of elections in recent years where people said i've got to vote for "a" or "b"? this is all i've got? >> who's "c"? >> too early to tell. >> ron paul says he's not running as an independent. >> there may not be. but it's possible. especially given what happened yesterday. super failure. >> you sound almost hopeful that there might be a third. >> listen, it's darkest before the sun comes up. >> that's what passes for optimism from a budget fanatic, right? >> a nice way to round out the

block. dave walker, thank you so much. assistant majority leader senator dick durbin joins us later in the conversation. also this morning, "golden girl" betty white will be here onset. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> i can't follow the queen of comedy. good morning, everyone. two big storms out there. we are going to be watching a storm moving through the eastern half of the country in the next two days and a huge storm moving onshore in the northwest. big heads up to our friends in northern new england. snowstorm heading your way. that pink colors is a forecast of 6 to 12 inch of snow. high elevations could get over a foot. you skiers out there, this is the first significant snow for those big resorts like killington. now, the west, huge storm system moving onshore. high winds, heavy rain. up interstate 5 is the worst of it. ohio valley southeast, rain and thunderstorms today. tomorrow morning, that's covering the east coast. i-95 will not be a fun drive as you go throughout your wednesday travel. especially in the morning hours. northern new england is going to get the worst of that snow. then for thanksgiving day, much

of the country, actually, clears out. the only trouble from weather still in the northwest. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. aisle 10. nice. aisle 2. good. aisle 8. nice. trick question. walmart doesn't sell your mother. you're ready. [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. but we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. the only place to go on black friday. walmart.

one way or another, we will be trimming the deficit by a total of at least $2.2 trillion over the next ten years. that's going to happen. the question right now is whether we can reduce the deficit in a way that helps the economy grow, that operates with a scalpel, not with a hatchet. and if not, whether congress is willing to stick to the painful deal that we made in august for the automatic cuts. >> 22 past the hour. live look at a foggy capitol hill in washington, d.c. joining us now on the set,

democratic senator from illinois and senate majority whip, senator dick durbin, who is a proud new grandfather of 1-week-old twins. your daughter, jennifer -- >> that's right. >> had a twin boy and girl, ona and floyd, a week ago. >> a week ago today. >> so you've been babysitting. >> loretta and i have been babysitting at jennifer's place which, as i mentioned, is a warehouse in the bushwick section of brooklyn. >> fabulous. so you have perspective of holding newborn twin babies, your grandchild, all week. what is then your take on what has gone down in washington? because i think that would give you a little bit of a different point of view. >> it is a humbling experience to think about their lives and what they'll be like and what i can do to influence them. the fact is, and i'm not picking on the super committee. they were given a very, very tough assignment. and a very limited amount of time to do it. and i know they tried hard. they tried mightily and just didn't achieve it. but something has to be done. it really does.

and i would -- maybe i'll just go out here on a limb and no one will agree with me, but won't be the first time. it's time to move to the committee of the whole. let's start moving beyond these special committees and let's do something pretty basic and maybe radical. i think we ought to say after february 1st of next year, any 12 senators, 6 of either party, who produce a plan that can reduce this deficit by at least as much as the super committee was charged to do, ought to be able to bring it to the floor for a vote. and let's have all those who are interested come together. i'm in a group. the group of six. which has now expanded to the group of 45. and i basically said to them, if the super committee doesn't produce, now it's our turn. put it on paper. put it up for a vote. and i think that is the best way to move this forward and maybe restore a little bit of confidence in congress. >> many of your -- go ahead. >> no, no. >> i was going to ask, many of your friends from the senate were inside the room for three months, ten weeks, whatever it was.

what did they come out and tell you afterward. what was the core of the problem inside that room? >> i'll tell you point-blank if you want to know. if you watched "60 minutes" and saw grover norquist preening and gloating over the scalps he has on the wall of all the republicans he's defeated who would dare consider votes for new revenue or taxes they were scared to death of what the effects would be. there were a handful that have stepped out. tom coburn of oklahoma is one of them. precious few. on our side, sure, we're under pressure. not like that. when it gets right down to it, there'll be people upset about it. the message to them is very basic. medicare, untouched, is going to run out of money in 12 years. 12 years. social security untouched, you cannot promise anyone under the age of 42 that they will receive social security anywhere like we receive it today. >> you pointed to grover norquist and the republicans. i expected that. having said that, is that really at the root of the problem?

i mean, there has been gridlock for now months and months. to point to something joe mentioned earlier, the democrats haven't come wup with a budget n nine months. why? >> we don't have 60 votes in the senate. it breaks down time and again. what we're doing is passing our spending bills piecemeal. and we had some resistance. we tried last week to put up three more bills and we were stopped. the republicans wouldn't let us bring them to the floor. i don't want to place all the blame on the republicans. but norquist is this imminence -- who's looming over this process. we've got to step up and say to the republican side, listen, put it all on the table. that's what bowles/simpson said. put it all on the table. >> joe was on earlier, made the point about the 900 days. in fairness to joe, he asked the question, where was president obama? i'm a believer the president should have been a little more involved. he may get a little more blame than he probably deserves here. at the end of the day it sounds like the president and the white

house is more mired in a congressional speak as opposed to -- do democrats and republicans on the hill, particularly the democratic leadership believe if the president had been more involved that a different outcome might have resulted here? >> no. i'll tell you why point-blank. the republicans made it clear in the room that if this becomes the obama budget, we're finished. we'll talk to you as long as it's a congressional budget. but if it becomes obama's possible victory, we don't want to talk about it. let's be honest, too. three different times this president stepped up and said let's sit down and negotiate the real thing. each of those occasions the republican leaders walked away. so i think the president was where he should be. on the sidelines. saying to congress, you're a special committee. you're a responsibility. i'm there to back you up if you get it done. >> what about the pat toomy tax plan? here you had a republican who came out of the club for growth, came out of that world, and was proposing something. there were arguments over

whether it was that plus or minus. wasn't that at least a foot in the door? >> i got in trouble because i said it was a breakthrough when he did it. my democratic friends said don't give too much credit there. it's a terrible idea. i said it's terrible, but it has revenue in it. we can't get republicans to even talk about, for example, taxing the wealthiest people in america. when you look at senator toomey's approach you're fwoigo to find, unfortunately, the tax code was really a victim. in other words, working families would have found a heavier tax burden. we would have seen, unfortunately, the bowles/simpson idea of tax reform which helps all groups in this country, that came in a lot differently. credit to senator toomey for putting it on the table. it wasn't a good alternative to what we're talking about. >> all right. senator dick durbin, thank you very much. congratulations on the twins. >> thanks. i'm looking forward to doing a little babysitting. >> are you cooking this weekend, senator? >> my wife is cooking. i'll be holding the babes.

>> all right. a special announcement coming up from bravo's anticohen. plus, a day that lives in infamy. a new book revisits pearl harbor nearly 70 years later. how the nation responded to the crisis and what it means for us today. more "morning joe" ahead. let's go to vegas. alright, let's do it. let's do it, let's go to vegas. vegas baby! maybe we should head back to the dealership first? vegas! no, this is a test drive. vegas! [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. smal l bu and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small

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welcome back to "morning joe." 32 past the hour. stupts from the university of california davis are planning a news conference today amid mounting outrage over the police use of pepper spray against nonviolent student protesters last week. the university's police chief has been put on administrative leave along with two other officers involved in the incident. there you see it happening. in all, 11 students needed medical treatment after being sprayed at point-blank range while protesting tuition hikes in support of the occupy wall street movement. so far the school's embattled chancellor is resisting calls to step down. she addressed a rally of more than 1,000 people yesterday. >> i'm here to apologize. i really feel horrible for what happened on friday. if you think you don't want to be students in a university like

we had on friday, i'm just telling you, i don't want to be the chancellor of the university we had on friday. >> after her speech, the chancellor was escorted to her car by faculty members. an investigation is now under way. there's talk about a possible lawsuit against the university. obviously, a lot that's going to happen just on that level there at uc davis, jon meacham. but big picture, i mean, first of all, what they were doing was wrong. is anybody here in disagreement about -- it just sort of fuels this dissension about occupy wall street and these students, of course, were protesting tuition hikes. but they were in the same vein as the ows protesters. and it's going to create a deeper divide in a way, when you have more stories like this of people getting pepper sprayed and altercations with police. >> totally. we're just getting used to economic populism again. we've been driven by cultural

populism since 1968. and we've talked before, to me, one of the most remarkable things about the crash of '08 was the delayed reaction of this kind of demonstration. because of all the factors we know. and we just haven't had this kind of experience, really, in 40 years. >> these campuses in california are under huge pressure. the tuition increases and all of the state budget cuts. but the use of military grade pepper spray point-blank range? there is absolutely no excuse for that. >> one of the most positive things out of this -- what happened was horrible. that guy should be arrested. this movement now, there's some real legitimate and specific purpose to it. they were there protesting tuition hikes compared to when you look at some of the other occupiers, i don't know quite what they want. this was a very specific ask. at first, the chancellor, they should have fired the police chief and fired the guy that sprayed those kids, what willie said earlier, that would stop a

bear, i think you said, the pepper spray, the force of zblit that's what they recommend it for. a bear. >> kids with their hands behind their backs protesting tuition hikes. tomorrow, harvey weinstein will be with us onset. still ahead this morning, actor, author and hollywood legend betty white will be joining us. keep it right here on "morning joe." 22 thunder slide right

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ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ december 7th, 1941. a day of infamy. even as japanese diplomats were conferring with secretary of state hall on peace measures, planes were swooping down on pearl harbor.

this pictorial record includes both u.s. films and pictures made by the enemy as they dropped their load of death on the naval base on civilian homes and schools. 100 japanese planes and a number of submarines took part in the attack. in an hour and five minutes the battleship "arizona" was completely destroyed and four others severely damaged. within hours the united states declared war. >> nearly 70 years since japan attacked pearl harbor. author craig shirley gives us new details in the book "december 1941: 31 days that changed america and saved the world." craig, good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> you've written the book jon meacham wished he wrote. >> let's start now. >> don't go there, willie. man. >> he's a little bitter. >> that hurts. >> in his defense, it's mutual. >> he's busy enough. let's talk about december 7th, 1941. that day -- we've had september

11th. we had the financial crisis of 2008. we consider those shocks to our system. but they didn't change us in the way that december 7th, 1941, did. >> december 7th changes everything. it's probably the only time in the history of this country where it was as unified as it was. not even july fourth. not even april of 1861. not even september 11th. there's one word to describe america after december 7th. that's unity. there's no disagreement about anything. everybody's very willing to give the president all the powers he needs to conduct the war. volunteers step forward. recruiting offices have to go on 24/7, navy recruiting offices, because they can't handle the people turning out. >> we've spent all morning talking about partisanship, a frozen government. >> it's been a little depressing. >> describe what america was like on december 5th, that friday, in terms of foreign policy debate. >> isolationist. 100% isolationist. there had been -- jon, there had been a poll by gallup in the

months before. 70% of the american people were opposed to getting involved in the european war. there was no interest whatsoever. we were putting our toe in the water with len lease and the atlantic charter, what fdr wanted to do to help out churchhill and the allies. that was as far as the american people wanted to go. they did not want to send troops into another european conflict. world war i left such a bad taste in the american's mouth after 1919 there was a saying in america, all we got out of world war i was debt and death. >> in fact, america was really ignoring what was happening. the genocide had begun. >> it was being reported. but nobody was doing anything about it. >> nobody wanted to know. >> right. it was being reported. "time" magazine had a very detailed story about the final solution that hitler was carrying forward. they had a detailed story about what was going on in europe, what was happening to the jews of europe. but nobody reacted to it. it just -- the report came out and it sunk without any comment.

>> jon, you wrote an entire book, essentially, franklin winston, about -- >> i wrote the whole book. >> yes. >> i thought craig shirley wrote that? >> vanderbilt. >> you know what, forget it. i was going to give you credit. no. about winston church hill trying to drag franklin roosevelt into the war and he didn't enter the war until december 7th, 1941. >> he didn't enter the war actually what churchill was most worried about, december 11th. the longest four days of winston churchill's life was when we were in the pacific war. people forget we did not declare war on hitler until hitler declared war on us. >> december 10th, right. what's interesting, churchill wrote in his memoirs he was almost gleeful about the pearl harbor attack because he knew it would get america into the war. even after the 7th, the attack, we declare war on the 8th. fdr goes to congress.

we declare war on the 8th. i detect no national will in this country to get involved in the european war. everybody was focused on japan and the pacific. there was no will to get involved in the european war until hitler and mussolini declare war on us and we have to respond. those three or four days, wins ston churchill has to have been on tender hooks. >> he said i slept the sleep of the thankful on december 7th. he was looking back from the '50s when he did that. what would have happened if hitler had not declared war on the united states. >> we may have gotten into it eventually. it may have been too late. there had been open talk in london about suing pr faes. the war was not going particularly well for the british, as you know. all the focus of the battle of britain was on 1940. even as of 1941, nazi bombing in great britain was very routine, 24 hours a day.

the battle was still going on. we had to go to a lend lease because churchill no longer had the money to purchase our military equipment. now we had to lend them the money to purchase it. but at some point churchill was faced up with the very real possibility that he might have to sue for peace with adolph hitler. >> so we enter the war and america goes to work. you write a lot in the book about the impact of world war ii and december 7th, 1941, on our economy. what was it? >> well, the office of production information -- production management tells detroit, you will produce no more cars for 1942. that's it. you're out of the car business. you're going to start making airplanes. what's fascinating is that within 30 days, the ford and fisher auto parts company manufacture airplanes, bombers, within a month out of -- >> they retooled that quickly. >> retooled that quickly out of parts that were supposed to be for airplanes -- or for cars, they're now making airplanes. but that was across the board. is that the old nash company

which became american motors, they start producing airplane propellers instead of making cars. within weeks of the it sha-- of attack. >> craig shirley, thank you so much. the book is "december 1941." that is worth buying. >> excellent book. >> really, really cool. >> sorry i didn't write it, jon. >> meacham, you missed out. >> another missed opportunity. >> andrea mitchell, thank you as well. we'll see you 1:00 eastern time. >> 1:00 with mike bloomberg, mayor bloomberg. >> good get there. coming up, bravo's andy cohen. >> huge news. >> you're watching "morning joe." >> he has news. >> huge news. >> he's breaking news right here on "morning joe." >> andy cohen news. ♪ ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ]

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♪ all right guys. >> i'm sorry. >> do we have the breaking news banner? >> is it breaking news? tell me. >> bravo's executive vice president of original programming and development, not for long, maybe. >> what? >> different title. >> executive producer of watch what happens live. we wanted to make him feel at home. we got the makers. >> this is what this is? >> the makers in ginger in a

plastic cup. >> the announcement is watch what happens live is going five nights a week on bravo. only live show in late night. >> mozzle to that. >> makers mark and ginger ale. >> this is nice. >> i just want to point out for the record, mika is the only person who actually took a sip, so did you. >> sip? i took a gulp. have you seen the week i've had. >> give her a straw. >> you are giving us black turtle neck simplicity this morning. that's all that counts. >> it's great. >> what am i saying with my outfit? >> simple of chic. i'm a lady of the morning and the night. >> wow. >> did you know that's what you were saying?

>> now she's drinking. >> you are all things at once. >> perfect. >> we know your value. >> really? you do, actually. >> you have made it quite clear. >> let's talk business. five nights a week. you work two nights a week. sunday to thursday. >> sunday to thursday. >> this is a big leap for you. >> this is a big leap. my job is recon figured. i'm going to be vp of talent. every night at 11:00 will be the only live talk show in late night, which is really exciting. from sunday to thursday. nobody else is on on sunday nights. we are on now on sunday night but we are going to take it through the week. >> nobody else is live. >> right. nobody else is live. >> that's going to be crazy. >> i'm not sure a lot of people know your story. you are not a comedian.

you came up through the news business. >> i was in cbs news for ten years. mika and i are vets of cbs'. >> i think i saw you in the hall. >> i think we checked each other out. i men, metaphorically. then i was in charge of programming at a small cable program called trio. i have been at bravo for seven and a half years. i wanted to be on the air when i first started as an intern at cbs. somebody said what are you going to do about your wandering eye? i was like what is this? it is true. i am. i also decided i should move to new york. i didn't want to move to a small market and work my way through the local news system. i moved to new york and pursued a career behind the scenes. it was great. through a series of events relating to a blog on bravo and

a show online, i started working on air at bravo. it's been an incredible weird dual job that i've had. >> smart move. as an executive, give yourself a show. >> i did. actually i didn't. lauren and francis resent that notion because i work for two amazing women. >> i'm just giving you a hard time. >> you do. you do. >> look at the late night landscape. there's a piece in the new york times, your numbers are outrageous, actually. in the demo, you beat chelsea handsler and conan. >> we have done well. that's two nights a week. i don't know what will happen when we expand. we have modest expectations. we want to plant a flag and we want bra zoe to be a player in a strip on late night, you know, five nights. >> you get great guests.

>> we get some good guests, yes, we do. hopefully. knock that that will continue. >> you had willie, how did he do? >> he's great. one night willie was booked and the guests were going to be mr. geist and alexis. she's known as jesus barbie. i know you love the housewives of orange county. five minutes before air, president obama went on and announced the news relating to osama bin laden. willie had to tear off and go back to work and there i am with jesus barbie. i realized as w are about to go on air, oh my lord, there are all these people watching housewives of orange county who have no idea this major event happened and i'm going to be the one they hear it from. i'm going to be their brian

williams. it was me and jesus barbie as it turns out. >> oh, no. >> i broke that news. i said, look, i apologize you will never forget who told you this, but i have to tell you. i got the minute-by-minute ratings the next day. i knew it would happen. of course it was all good. we had a plunge the moment after i said that. everybody went to their news organizations. >> you had your moment. >> i did. i did. i liked it. >> he did it in the right way. he toasted with a makers. now on to jesus barbie. >> exactly. >> we are thrilled for you. couldn't have happened to a better guy. >> i'm very, very happy. >> when does it start? >> january 8th. >> january 8th. five nights a week. watch what happens live. see ya. >> great success. >> bottoms up. >> betty white joins us next. [ gasps ] that's doris!

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♪ good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as we take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set along with willie geist and me, jon

meacham, harold ford jr. and eugene robinson. the failures of the supercommittee. european shares fell to seven week lows. the major u.s. index fell 2% each. hours before the midnight deadline, the leaders of the bipartisan panel issued a statement. they say in part, despite the ability to bridge the committees significant differences we end this process united in the belief the nation's fiscal crisis must be addressed. we cannot leave it for the next generation to solve. >> that was your job. >> wait a minute. i thought that's what you were doing. that was the thing. then there were these triggers going into effect immediately, right? >> you got it. >> the breakdown of the supercommittee will trigger $1.2 trillion in automatic cuts including up to $600 billion

from the defense department that's already getting pushed back. a number of congressmen are trying to stop that. the defense secretary, leon panetta, says it could tear a seam in the nation's defense. president obama is vowing to block an effort to avoid the trigger saying congress must stick to the guidelines of the deal. >> already some in congress are trying to undo the automatic spending cuts. my message to them is simple. no. i will veto any effort to get rid of those automatic spending cuts domestic and defense spending. there will be no easy off ramps on this one. >> hours before the supercommittee announced the failure, mitt romney was ready to assign blame on president obama. >> they say we are going to cut the military by $600 billion.

with the world a dangerous place, we are going to put the military on the chopping block. it's like holding a gun to your own head. then with that, as a possible outcome, you have a president who didn't get involved in the process. >> all right. we are slipping into politic here. newt gingrich got involved. let's read from politico. this is joe's take. supercommittee failure puts u.s. at risk. here is a message to washington politicians, duck. your failure is now complete. you were faced with a generational challenge to save americans from the type of collapse european countries are facing and you blinked. you did worse. instead of a threat that could have been solved by simple math, you ran for cover. watching them on their lines on sunday talk shows makes me sick.

democrats want to hike taxes and republicans slashing spending. both accusing the other side while standing in a block of ideological cement. how pathetic. >> this is two times since august, since summer congress presented with a chance to do his job and it failed, both parties. both parties blame the other and try to assign more blame. in a paper yesterday, i think a lot of people are going lose. i don't think they appreciate how fully american families and businesses are having to make difficult choices and sacrifices. here they have incentives on both sides to make cuts. democrats don't like cuts to human needs programs, including education and housing. they both allow automatic cuts to kick in beginning 2013. i think it was terrible. the president said it was not as bad as august. maybe because they didn't react

immediately. heading into thanksgiving and the christmas holiday, this is the heaviest and biggest retail season of the year for the american people to see our government twice presented with the chance not to act. i don't think they understand the depth of the blow yet. as much as i disagree with republican candidates, i think the president and the white house will share a larger part of the blame. at the end of the day, because he is a single individual that people look to most, the president is, he is the leader. people are going to look to him. he may suffer more blame than he deserves in this process. >> eugene, it's not like the president can force the republicans to come to the table. what do you think happened? did the democrats put enough on the table? >> this was a congressional committee. the president is the president. this was congress acting, failing to act. secondly -- >> sign a bill creating the

commission and as well as we both know, simpson-bowles. the president doesn't deserve no many blame. i think he gets more. i'm not making -- >> i think your point is well taken. the president at the reigns, you get the blame or the credit. it comes up to you. this was, we kind of knew this was going to happen. we knew they weren't going to reach this agreement or we thought it was unlikely. there's another side of this, though. if you stand back for a minute, we have $1.2 trillion in automatic cuts that are supposed to take effect and if nothing is done, the bush tax cuts go away. that's another $4 trillion over a decade. in a sense, we have taken a huge bite out of the deficit. >> the dow was down 300 points yesterday. i was struck by a quote, he said

reality is anticipating the failure of the supercommittee. reality is starting to overtake hope. a stunning admission that the reality is we can't get anything done because we are so far apart and bound, as joe says, sitting in ideological concrete. this is the reality. that's the message to me and america. this is the reality of washington. >> the great question is, historically and practically, to go to harold's point, doesn't take a wave election on the hill to change that. it only takes a wave election if people now -- if you are a hard core partisan, you are quite happy with the way things are, right? you like gridlock. the argument that you like gridlock and the de facto way of checking spending. democrats like being upset as a

matter of course. if there's not -- if people who are sharing that view from the congressman and are like as harold is saying, believe there's got to be a grown up solution to use a term the president uses, they have to vote for people who do that. the hardest thing to do and you know this and joe knows this, the hardest thing to do is run in the middle in a congressional race or senate race. so, at this point, i want to say something about all of us. at this point, i think congress has, before now, tended to reflect the dissonance of the american people. cut that guy's program, but mine is fine. i think it's beginning to change. >> i do, too. a couple things. we are going to slide into politics now. newt gingrich weighed in. any kind of different take? thought it was good for america. >> it's not that washington is

in gridlocks, it's that the current players behavior and inherent play. part of the president's fault, part of the congress' fault. it's a mess. they are trying to break out of the mess by being dumber and creating a committee of 12 picked by the leadership to get into a room and come up with something 535 couldn't solve. >> eugene? >> this is one of the things newt gingrich has been assistant. he's been opposed to the supercommittee on theoretical grounds. we have a congress. we have a president. they are supposed to work this sort of thing out. they should work it out and we shouldn't have to resort to the extra constitutional means. this is consistent. >> wilet's be clear. i thought john kerry talked clearly on david gregory's show

over the weekend. the extension of the bush tax cuts were essential to a deficit reduction. it's hypercritical to say cutting more taxes. the democrats were willing to make all the middle class cuts permanent. 98% of the americans would have enjoyed tax cuts for another four years. they only wanted to raise the top 1%. newt gingrich, in fairness, in '94, he gave in. he eventually gave in. they shut government down and he had to give in. the other republicans they are id logs. jeb is probably a nice guy. at the end of the day, they gave into grover nor quis. >> how does he play into the point you are about to make. >> i remember bush 41, in the beginning, sensing this problems

with the ideological purity. rick perry signed a play saying he was against islamic law, which was very helpful. it was very reassuring. >> it worked, we are not seeing that. >> there's got to be, again, a wave of moderates have to get into this. it's expensive, painful and awful. the caucuses have never been more pure. we have to figure out a way to do that. the second thing is in the last two examples where we had this kind of showdown and this kind of crisis, 1990 and 1995 -- >> i say '94, mid-'95. >> it's okay. west tennessee had a hard time with numbers for a long time. in those two years, what did you have? you had president's negotiating. >> yep.

>> george h.w. bush lost his job. he knew it. bill clinton could have. >> i'm going to read this from paul krugman. this is -- i'm sorry, not from the washington journal, paul krugman. no, from the wall street journal. thank you grover norquist. the reason they failed is the activists magical antitax spell over republicans. thank you by reminding republicans of their antitax promises. he helped to expose the reason for the supercommittees failure. they disagree profoundly on a vision of government. we have been talking a lot on the phone just about what's been going on here. let's bring joe in. how are you feel sng. >> not so great.

i'm coming along. i thought i was going to be in today. >> sorry. >> the decalf is working well for you this morning. >> more like a tranquilizer but that's okay. we are not done yet. we are at 18 past the top of the show. it's a risky statement after yesterday. talk to me about grover norquist. >> you know, i have not read the wall street journal editorial yet, but harold ford, my dear democratic friend talked about grover with all due respect, to the honorable gentleman from tennessee, new york, the hamptons -- >> florida, nantucket. >> blaming glover norquist for this collapse is the lamest thing since the gulf incident. it is like lbj said, a couple years later, they were shooting

at ghosts or whales, yet that was his excuse to go into vietnam. grover norquist or anybody that works in washington, d.c., he's got his own point of view. he holds no magical power over anybody. he's not really a powerful guy. his idea may be powerful to conservatives. he in and of himself is not a powerful guy. the ridiculous part of this that you will hear over the next couple days, they blame republicans and democrats equally, as i always do. but democrats have the president of the united states, right? they have the united states senate. the world's most dlib rative body, the upper chamber. america's most exclusive club. they haven't produced a budget in over 900 days.

the president of the united states and democrats appoint a commission to take care of the debt, then ignores everything that commission says. anybody today trying to blame grover norquist or suggest he's more powerful than the president of the united states and the united states senate, which everybody in washington knows runs washington, it's not the house. it is the upper chamber. the democrats own it. they are close to monopoly of washington, d.c. to blame this on grover norquist is laughable. >> no one blamed him fully. he's part of it. >> he's not part of it. grover doesn't control an army. grover cant raise taxes. grover cant produce a budget.

he has a single sheet of paper they signed a decade ago. >> you and i know republicans make that point. >> this is the strongest -- i'm sorry -- >> so does president obama. i don't disagree with you. i made the point -- >> harold, i'm sorry. >> to say he didn't have a role. >> this is a strong man. this is -- grover norquist is a strong man. republicans haven't been in control of house of representatives for over a year. the massive deficits that accumulated then didn't exist. again, i'm blaming both sides today. both sides have their feet in ideological cement. grover norquist is a strong man. these democrats that said george w. bush abused the powers of office and oh, the executive branch is too powerful is suggesting barack obama, who by

the way has been awol on this issue is powerless? he put simpson-bowles together then threw them under the bus. mika, you and i, if i ever come back, we have to get senate democrats on this program and start asking them why in the midst of america's greatest budgetary crisis and 235 years they have refused sub bornly to produce a budget for over 900 days. >> all right. i'm going to give you the last word, joe. but your argument about grover, i understand the concept of it, to say that the -- almost it seems the republicans are going to play the victim here. i don't think -- i think your piece in politico sums it up well. both sides failed. they are not victims and grover norquist has a role in this. "60 minutes" did a piece on him

for a reason. >> the president of the united states is still the president of the united states. grover norquist's idea may be a strong one. he has absolutely no power in washington, d.c. the idea that he carries. i am so surprised that democrats really believe that the presidency is as weak as they believe it is now. that this president couldn't step forward and show at least a little bit of leadership. he has been awol since he and boehner failed on the debt ceiling. he better react quickly or we are going the way of europe. actor hugh grant testifies in the british phone hacking saying the tabloids harassed his family for years and broke into his home. here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. a busy forecast day with everyone going to holiday

destinations. two storms, one in the mid l of the country. the green on the map is rain. it covers the ohio valley. thunderstorms rolling through louisiana and heading for areas in mississippi. this rain turns the snow for northern new england. 6 to 12 inches wide spreed in new hampshire and maine. a huge storm coming from seattle down i-5 to portland and san francisco. very, very wet. snow at the high elevations. the storm is going to linger for a couple days. here is the breakdown in the forecast. the ohio valley and southeast, wednesday the busiest travel day of the year. the huge storm on the east coast. snow in new england. heavy rain. major airport delays likely. they improve as the snow moves off the coast. much of the country clears up and looks nice. san francisco northwards to the

pacific northwest. busy travel weather. how can you not stay tuned? betty white on "morning joe." [ gasps ] that's doris! she's a black friday living legend. she even named her kid "black friday." [ woman 2 ] whoa. [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. but we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. the only place to go on black friday. walmart. premier of the packed bag. you know organization is key... and so is having a trusted assistant. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above and still pay the mid-size price. here we are... [ male announcer ] and there you go, business pro. there you go. go national. go like a pro.

i realize you wanted me to talk to you like any young couple, but given your life experience, maybe we can skip over a few things. >> no, we want you to go completely by the books. >> we want this to feel like the first time. please continue. >> the next thing i usually discuss is the wedding night,

you know, family planning and such. you got any questions there? >> no, we're good in that area. >> that was betty white and tv land's comedy "hot in cleveland." joining us now, emmy award winning actress, betty white, author of the new book "betty and friends, my life at the zoo." i sort of know how you feel about life at the zoo but i'm talking here. >> for years i been told i belong in the zoo, but they didn't realize i had been working for the l.a. zoo for 50 years. >> we haven't been this excited to have a guest on in a long time. >> it's true. >> we heard you were coming on and people have been promoting it. you have betty white on. people flooding through the hall ways to come see you. >> it's been so fun to watch you

for the last couple years. this resurgence and you are hosting "saturday night live" and winning an emmy for it. we know what it's been like for us, but what's it been like for you? >> bless your heart. i appreciate it. it's not a resurgence. i haven't been away, i promise. i have been working for the last 63 years. but it's lovely. thank you. if you want to think it's a resurgence, thanks. >> it's superstardom, again. >> sure. sure. >> be careful with that whiskey in front of you. don't sip it thinking it's iced tea or anything. >> no, i'm going to take it on the plane. >> she asked for a different drink. i wonder if we could get it for her. >> you're a vodka lady. >> not regularly. i'm not a whiskey drinker. i'm a heavy drinker. heavy. >> speaking of heavy, your new

book, it's so beautiful. it's weighty and heavy. >> it's not that big, but it's a labor of love. i have been working on this -- the pictures are wonderful. >> look at the photographs. >> i have been working with the zoo for 50 years. through those years, he's our zoo photographer taking these incredible pictures. he always would give me a print. finally, i thought i can't keep these without showing them to somebody. >> they are beautiful. what was the origin of your interest 50 years ago? what got you interested? >> in the zoo? >> uh-huh. >> i have been a zoo nut forever. my mother and dad were zoo nuts. the purpose is to tell people the good zoos do rather than say

they should be let out of the zoo and back to their natural habitat. what we have done to their natural habitat has disappeared. there would be so many that were extinct. the modern zoos, the good zoos work with the diminishing populations in the wild. what they learn in the zoo they can apply to a wild population. >> and spread awareness to people who never would have the chance to understand the world of animals and the world we live in. >> no. >> perhaps generate an interest. >> at a zoo, you see animals that you can't any other way. everybody can't go to africa or india. the animals in india are disappearing. zoos are helping bring those populations back. >> did you hear about the gay penguins that were separated at the zoo in order to procreate?

did you hear about this story? >> no. it's not easy to breed penguins. >> it's not. >> it really is not. >> talk about an extinct, rare, species. >> was this in california? there was a ballot initiative. >> yeah. >> why digress. >> what do you get, betty, from the animals when you are around them all the time, what do they give to you? >> they are my passion. they are my life. everybody says when did this start. i always answer the womb. i was fortunate to have a mother and dad who loved them as much as i do and passed it on to me. when i was brought home from the hospital, we had a beautiful kitty, toby.

if toby hadn't approved of the baby, the baby would have gone back to the hospital. >> great. you know, i have seen you doing commercials for rescues over the years. you have a passion for animals that has spanned decades. i wonder what you think of where we stand today in terms of there are all these people with pedigree dogs out there and spending thousands of dollars for them. yet, there are so many animals that need homes. >> well, that's the message you keep trying to pass out. if you want a specific breed, if you want, you know, something, i promise you with a little research, you'll find that breed in shelters everywhere at a rescue. there's a wonderful organization, best friends in utah that does marvelous work. all the messages you can send out, we have come a long way.

i have been in the animal business all my life. i'm going to be 90 in january, so it's been a long time. >> incredible! >> the animal business has changed a lot. the public has finally come around to realizing the different ways that animals benefit us. medically, they lower our blood pressure. >> good therapy for sure. >> finally, the public is beginning to get hip to that. >> this is my rescue kcagin. do you know what he is? he's a therapy dog for my stepfather who had a stroke. we sneak him into the rehab facility. finally, we got papers for him to be a therapy dog. he's helped wayne so much, just remember things. isn't that beautiful? >> when therapy dogs walk into a room, what it does for the

people's expressions. what it does for everything. >> can you see? >> just touch the screen so it's a little brighter. he's our boy. tap the screen a little bit. he's a good boy. >> they have an impact. i have seen it firsthand. >> a monstrous impact. >> incredible. >> how are the zoos doing? this is a tough time for bottom lines and for fill ant pi. what is the state of america's zoos right now? >> again, trying to educate and send a message out, they are doing pretty well. they are all fighting for the same buck, of course. that goes with the territory. but, they are more sign tifffully oriented and trying to send out the message of why the animals are important, not just for people to come in and look

at. literally, they are saving species. the california condor is a classic example. we got down to 22 birds. 22 birds on the planet. they have been here since the beginning. a lot of animal activists say let them die with dignity. the san diego and los angeles zoo took every one of those 22 birds into captivity. people went crazy, you can't do that, for captive breeding. between the two zoos, they bred them to where now there are wild condors back up in california where they came from. they are flying over the grand canyon. they are flying over montana. they are flying over mexico. it's a success story that wouldn't have happened if we had ant had the breeding program. >> we want to ask you about the projects you have going but you

mentioned you are about to turn 90. i'm curious about what you think of the concept of retirement. >> of what? i'm afraid that's a word -- it's like msnbc, i can't repeat it. i'm having too much fun. i'm having fun on "hot in cleveland" with these wonderful girls i work with. valerie bertinelli and wendy. >> how fun. >> there's so much talk about who should replace regis philbin. i'm wondering if you are interested in that job? >> no, i'm just interested in regis. we could have a doo on the side and no one would know. >> a little what? >> a little dew, like the grass in the morning. >> i like it. what animals do you have at

home? >> my golden retriever. he's a guide dog. he had a bum leg. there's a waiting list for those dogs. they were afraid they couldn't finish his training and send him out as a guide. they were afraid if somebody got him, if he needed surgery, with the expense they wouldn't follow through. they knew i would. he was so grateful, he hasn't needed surgery. he's now 7. he's my heart. >> what is off their rockers? >> off their rockers? >> it's a new game show we are starting. it's starting in january. it's a hidden camera, it's similar to "candid camera" but older people pranking the young and getting a jump on the young. >> oh, my goodness. is that a reality show with what network? nbc? >> nbc. >> i'm impressed. how many projects do you have

going? my gosh? >> i have the ms in front of the nbc. >> you don't need it. you're on the mother show. you're fine. you have so many books. you have written so many books. i eke working on a book. what advice could you give someone trying to write a book? >> stay with it. don't, you know, sometimes you get dry spells and you can't. on this one, it was supposed to, my deadline was march, next march. all of a sudden they said no, let's bring it up for christmas. your deadline is now august. well, i nearly fainted. that deadline kept doing this. >> but you did it! >> we made it. it was close, but we made it. yesterday was the official publication day. i was really excited. >> i'm curious, just thinking now of books, in terms of the span of your career, so much has changed in the television industry. how is it changed for women?

maybe when it comes to negotiating deals or anything. >> my problem is, i started in 1949. we weren't gender oriented at all. if there was a job to do, you don't worry if it's a man or woman, you did it. i was writing and producing and acting. emceeing and all kinds of things. now, the first thing is you produced? you were a producer that early? frankly, i have never been gender oriented. what i think has changed in television is the audience. the audience now, back then, when i started, everything was new. there was actually a picture in the corner of your room with people talking, you know, that you could see. i did an experimental television show downtown in the packard

showroom. we were on the fifth floor. it was when i graduated from high school. i don't think california was a state. we did the show on the fifth floor and went down to the lobby. there was a monitor this big in the corner. we did the student body president and i did a dance and song. people had to stand among the cars to watch it. it was such a naive audience, the audience changed. everything was new then. now they have heard every joke, know every plot, they know from the first line where the show is going. it's a tough audience to surprise. so, it's a challenge for the writers. >> yet, you still do it. every step you take, i have to say. >> well, but you can't do it without the writers except in this kind of a comfortable

environment. >> it's homey, isn't it? >> it is homey. it's very homey. >> betty white. it's a pleasure and honor to meet you. thank you so much for being on the show today. >> thank you for the invitation. i appreciate it. keep up the good work. >> we'll try. >> congratulations on the book. betty and friends. go pick up a copy. a thrill. thank you. we'll be right back. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no!

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♪ welcome back at 42 past the hour. actor hugh grant opened a new chapter in the british tabloid phone hacking scandal. he launched a string of accusations not just at the news of the world paper but at nearly all the british tabloids. amid the complaints he gave evidence of how his apartment had been broken into. stephanie gosk is in london with the details. >> the license they have to

steal british citizens privacy for their commercial profit, vulnerable, is a scandal. >> reporter: in front of a british judge, hugh grant hurled a string of accusations at the british tabloids, lies and harassing. they have terrorized him and his girlfriends for years. a woman grant admits he had a brief affair with and gave birth to his child with this fall. >> they followed her around, she was a single, pregnant woman and being tailed by paparazzi, one in particular who frightened her a lot. >> reporter: he tried to keep the birth a secrete. they leeked information from the hospital. the daily mail had the information. >> in a statement, they said

they denied receiving information from a source at the hospital. grant also accused the sister tabloid, the mail on sunday of phone hacking to get information on a story on his relationship in february, 2007. >> i cannot think of the life of me for a source except the voice messages on my mobile telephone. >> reporter: they call the allegations smears. they heard from a 13-year-old murder victim. news of the world reporters hacked her phone after she went missing, deleting messages on her voice mail. >> it clicked through on to her voice mail, so i heard her voice. it was just like she's picked up her voice mails, she's alive. >> reporter: sadly, she was not. her parents suffering triggered the initial fire storm that

forced the news of the world to go under. now, the practices of the entire british press are under fire. >> that was stephanie gosk reporting. author j.k. rowling is expects to testify in the scandal. up next, what kind of hangover will the markets have to the failed supercommittee. we'll talk about that, next. i heard they found energy here. it's good. we need the jobs.

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before the bell. busy day, i take it. >> you know, it's interesting, mika. we got data on gdp. we grew in the third quarter less than expected. from 2% to 2.5%. it's disappointing. on one hand, we are not going into recession but we are not bouncing back the way we should. we were down 250 in the dow yesterday. we were positive before that number came out. europe is down. listen, we are dealing with what's going on in d.c. europe -- i need to remind people. we are the only people that celebrate thanksgiving. it's slow in terms of traders taking on for the holidays. things can happen in europe and the middle east when we are stuffing our faces. traders are nervous about this week. we are the only ones celebrating a holiday. a lot can happen while we are

off. >> harold? >> the failure of the supercommittee, we saw the impact of that combined with europe yesterday. how do you think the market responds the next several days as congress debates and points fingers over who is to blame? >> i think a lot of the disappointed is priced in. i think some people on the conservative side said hey, we are getting the spending cuts without raising taxes here. it's up to the democratic side to figure out how to respond to that. the disappointment was there. there were no surprises in the market. i think it's going to be steady until we get back. >> brian, thank you very much. more "morning joe" in a moment. let's go to vegas. alright, let's do it.

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i'm going to say one word. you give me the first word that comes to your head. romney. >> hair. no, just a minute. >> you can't -- you have another one? >> vice president. >> cain. >> nine. >> palin.

>> gorgeous. gorgeous. >> obama. >> finished. >> oh! >> perry. >> that's not one word. i have to do three. >> governor, texas, can't remember the other one. >> oh, my god. last one. bachmann. >> president. >> there you go. very good everybody. ♪ here st a look at your

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time now to talk about what we learned today. willie, anything? >> from betty white, it's not a resurgence. she paraphrased l.l. cool jay saying i have been here for years. >> harold? >> she's an attractive woman. joe watches the show when he's not here. he's as animated at home as on the show. >> i learned a book i once wanted to write has been written. 1941, the month that changed the