president, who led us bravely and successfully, backed civil rights and people around the world like me in the peace corps and, yes, took us to the moon. it will be a great honor to speak tonight at the john f. kennedy library here in boston and to bring it all back. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. republicans make their choice and they are siding with the rich. tonight, an outrageous new plan to protect millionaires by cutting jobs and freezing pay. these people have no shame and must be stopped. right now, millions more school kids are too poor to afford lunch and need government help. this is what the debate in washington is really all about. plus, willard slams newt.

newt slams willard and newt also slams fox news. >> part of the real change comes when you're running for president and being an analyst is i actually have to know what i'm talking about. welcome to "politics nation." i'm al sharpton. we start with breaking news. a new republican plan to protect the rich by destroying jobs and crushing the middle class. the fight over the payroll tax cut boils down to one thing. putting more money in the pockets of 160 million american workers or protecting 345,000 of the richest people in the country. and republicans have made their

choice. they have chosen the rich. >> we just think it shouldn't be punishing job creators to pay for it. >> i think you can take to the bank the fact that they will be paid for. >> yep, the payroll tax cut will be paid for, all right, but instead of having the top .2% of ultra rich pay for the payroll tax cut, republicans want to freeze the salary of federal workers and possibly cut 200,000 government jobs. layoff 200,000 government workers right before the holidays? all to protect a couple of hundred thousand rich people? the contrast between their fight for the rich and the president's fight for the rest of the country could not be clearer. he went to pennsylvania today to make his case. >> are you going to cut taxes for the middle class and those who are trying to get in the

middle class or you're going to protect millions of tax breaks for mill areas and are you willing to fight for middle class families as you are for those who are more forth nalt? what's it going to be? we are people who reach for our own success but we also reach back for the people to bring somebody up reach back to help others earn their own success as well. >> joining me now is senator ben cardin, democrat crate from maryland and a member of the senate committee. senator, what do you make of this plan? we're right before the holidays. they are actually talking about laying off 200,000 people and freezing federal pay. i mean, this is as bizarre as it gets. >> al, you're absolutely right. this is all about trying to help middle-income families so they don't see an effect of reduction

in their paychecks. we need to make sure that we extend the payroll deductions. what the republicans are trying to protect are those that makeover a million dollars. this is taxable income over a million. the first million dollars of taxable income, there's no additional taxes. what we're trying to say is let's pay for it in a fair way. those that have done the best over these last couple of years are the wealthiest. they can at least help contribute. instead, republicans are saying, let's take it out on our federal workforce. they've already had a pay freeze. let's ask them to do more with less. again, they are hitting the middle-income families. it's time that everybody contribute to helping our economy grow. and i tell you, you summed it up right. whose side are you on? the middle class or the wealthy? >> let me make this place because i don't think a lot of the people in the media people are really saying to the american people what is happening here. the republicans are saying, senator, we have to pay for this

payroll tax cut yet there's a tax cut that's going to help the middle class, it has to be paid for. when did we have to pay for the bush tax cut before it went in? >> you're absolutely right. the republicans are tdemocrats are the ones that paid for it last under president clinton. but the best all should be paying first and that's why our plan does pay for it. you're absolutely right. the republicans have a short memory. it's okay for them to extend their tax cuts from the wealthiest without paying for it but when it comes to middle-income families, there always seems to be an excuse. >> politics, they say, starts at home. let's go to maryland. let's show what this will mean right in your home state. republicans are protecting about $10,000 of his state's

millionaires. 10,000 of yaur state's millionaires with a potential expense of 3.2 million workers. that's what we're looking at here. so we're talking about taxing maybe 9,997 millionaires as opposed to 3.2 million workers. that's just in your home state of maryland. >> the math here is quite one-sided. also, it's a matter of getting our committee back on track. we have to expand our middle class, make it easier for people to have confidence and have some money that they can spend during the holidays. if you take money out of the paychecks of middle income families, what you're doing is you are hurting our economy. again, we are not going to affect the first million dollars of taxable income. this is only taxable income over a million dollar. and, quite frankly, it's going to have no impact on economic growth. it's going to help our economy grow. >> so when this came out this morning that the republicans were agreeing to this payroll tax cut and it was being

spined -- the spin that was put on it by some of the republicans and some of the media that bought it, that mcconnell was caving. and then we see mcconnell's office announce this. yeah, we're caving all right. we're going to cave the roof on the middle class, freeze federal civil salaries, cut 200,000 government jobs. this is outrageous. >> well, with the strategy of senator mcconnell is to make sure that nothing passes. so that when nothing happens, they can say, gee, we had a plan. the truth is, they know their plan can't pass and they are trying to ensure that we don't get anything done. that's no the interest of america. it's time to put partisan interests aside and make sure that they don't see a reduction in their paychecks. that's what is it at stake here. the plan that we brought forward is a fair plan. we're hoping that some republicans can join us and we can get this done. >> now, i want to be clear.

this cut of 200,000 jobs comes right from senator mcconnell's office press release. i'm not surmising this. this comes right out of the simpson-bowles plan. this clearly says to us what you're saying, think concurs with that, that, one, he doesn't want to pass anything. but, two, they have no shame about hurting the middle class, laying off government workers three weeks before christmas protect the rich at all costs. >> well, i'll tell you, al, i wish some of my republican colleagues could have been with me when i visited federal workers during the last month. i went to our federal facilities in maryland and saw workers being asked to do a lot more with less money. these are people protecting our food safety at the fda. people who are protecting technology growth. this is helping us create jobs, what they are doing. they are being asked to do more

with less and it's affecting the ability to get their jobs done. people at the social security administration making sure people get their checks. they are being asked to do more with less. people at the cms. every agency, these are middle-income family as they are being asked to cut 200,000, that's going to hurt our economy, it's going to hurt low-income families. it's the wrong thing to do at any time but absolutely now when our economy is vulnerable. this is the wrong medication. >> senator, thank you so much for being on tonight. i made need you. painting blueberries on the doors on some of the republicans that are voting for this, my blueberry pie seems appropriate to really show what they are trying to do here. thank you senator ben card in. >> looking forward to seeing on capitol hill. coming up, willard and newt

passes him in the polls. pop some popcorn. >> gingrich is a good man. we have similar background. >> i am a lifetime citizen. i have worked every day. and news today that three million more school kids are so poor they need subsidized lunches. wake up, republicans. nothing is trickling down except misery. and fighting a new injustice against our men and women in uniform. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ when the things that you need ♪ ♪ come at just the right speed, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ medicine that can't wait legal briefs there by eight, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪

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new evidence of how hard times are so bad for so many in this country.

21 million school kids now need subsidized lumps, yet republicans continue to prevent millionaires. aren't we better than that? stay with us. of your baby acting adorable. baby. on it. matt, ignore me and keep updating your fantasy team. huh? jeff, play a game. turbo-boosting now, sir. dennis, check in everywhere you go on foursquare. that's mayor dennis... of the water cooler. you're the best. liz, rock out to pandora. oh, no i'm an only child. and nick, you shouldn't even be here, you can do everything from the golf course. good? good. [ male announcer ] on at&t, blackberry® torch moves at the speed of 4g. ♪

welcome back. new troubling evidence today of how bad things are for so many in in country. the new york times reports three million more school children are so poor they need free or subsidized lunches for the first time. rising from $18 million in 2007

to 21 million today. these are innocent kids on the verge of falling out of the middle class. and they need our help. by august of this year, 45.8 million people have signed up for food stamps, a 75% increase in five years. and the latest census shows that 46 americans are living in poverty. that's up 15%. that's the highest number since 1993. this is what a generation of republican policies have done to america. it's why president obama is fighting so hard to restore the economy and create jobs but republicans must be told that their solution is this. >> you're looking at someone who lived at below poverty. i know what i had to do. i got a job. >> if you don't have a job and

you are not rich, blame yourself. >> corporations are people, my friend. we can raise taxes on -- of course they are. corporations go to people. >> tonight, one lone person is agreeing that corporations are not people. susan collins is supporting the plan to tax the rich. collins said, quote, i do not want to impose additional taxes on the employers at a time when our economy is very fragile and we want to encourage them to hire. on the other hand, i do believe that billionaires who are not running businesses could help us with our deficit. joining me tonight, bill press, host of "the bill press joe."

joe madison. gentlemen, thanks for your time tonight. bill, let me start with you. will more republicans see the light and recognize that millionaires should pay their fair share like senator collins has said? >> you know, i would hope so. i was thinking back in my seminary days and i'm sure you remember back in your sem nar days, afflicting the comfortable and republicans have it backwards. they are all about further comforting the already comfortable. i think the number one issue, and nobody wants to talk about it, we have a nation of poverty. 46 million americans. 20% of all school kids living in poverty today. that's a disgrace for this country and all the policies of the republican party are just making it easier and easier for the top 1% and tougher and

tougher for the 99. >> joe, 46 million living in poverty, 51 million living in just above poverty. almost 100 million americans in poverty, close to poverty. children now we're seeing an additional three million children, joe, needing free lunches in school. these are the people that talk about being the moralless. children are not republicans or democrats, joe. they are innocent children. that doesn't mean anything to this crowd? >> and they probably didn't even go to sunday school, let alone read the bible. let me point out to something in that "new york times" article. look who they are. these are not lazy shiftless people that they try to put a face on. rochester, new york, people who work for kodak, so embarrassed that they are telling school officials, please don't out our

children when it comes to that. it's rule people, people who joined the tea party and voted against their own interest, i think it's knew barry, south carolina, yesterday or the day before where someone mentioned the fact that newt gingrich said, he wants to go back to prior 1941 that's where he wants to take america, which attacked labor unions which did more to lift people out of poverty, like my parents and probably your parents than any other institution. and then finally, this is where most of the food program started, after world war ii, to help with the oversupply of food produced by the farmers and at the same time, feed people, children that are country.

and what was the head candidate for the republican party say in south carolina? i want to go back to prior 1941 which also june 25th, 1941, al, was the day that a. phillip randolph said to roosevelt, i'll bring 25,000 people to washington to change your mind and that's what we are going to have to do here in the united states of america. >> well, flares no doubt about that. and, bill, let me say, is that what senator collins is saying in the quote? she says today about breaking ranks with the gop's hard line on taxes. what we've been hearing over and over again is that because of the concern and impact on job creation. if you call about employers, you take away that argument. that's what she's saying. she gets it? she gets it? >> she gets it. i tell you what, republicans

have painted themselves into a box and more and more they are going to have to realize it. what they say is, you know, you can't get rid of the bush tax cut because that would be raising taxes. yeah. but then they turn around and they say, well, we'll get rid of the payroll tax cut. well, that's raising taxes too, on the people that we're talking about, $1,000, $1300 a year for families that are barely making it at $50,000 a year. republicans painted themselves as the party that will raise taxes on the 99%. i don't see how they can defend that on 2012 and susan collins is smart enough to recognize it. >> the only way we can change it is apply pressure. we also need to look at these republicans that are in tight races and explain why they are

not joining the ranks of senator collins. scott brown in massachusetts, helen in nevada, snow right there in maine. where are they? you're in tight races. you are seeing the courage of senator collins. we need to start saying to them as we face re-election, what side are you on? >> absolutely. $55 hundred buys a lot of groceries in nevada, where the construction industry got hit the hardest and here you have president obama trying to do what? stimulate the -- so whose side are you on? $1500 worth of groceries or on the side of the 1% in this country that control what? now take home 1% takes home 25% of the national income. >> right. reverend, i don't think there's going to be a clearer choice in this election than we've ever had. and joe just nailed it. who do you stand here? do you stand for the 1% or the

99%. raising taxes $1,000 for the average family or do you stand for giving them a tax break? >> well, we're going to occupy some ballot booths. bill and joe, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up next, congressman jim clyburn on how to get families in this country. [ male announcer ] this is lara.

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nation." the fight for fairness is on and the top democrat on the other side of capitol hill, james clyburn, assistant democratic leader is here to talk about the fight. congressman, we saw you get bombarded with republican talking points on fox news earlier today. >> yes. >> but i had to ask you, what do you make of the gops priorities in the fight overtax cuts for the working class? >> well, thank you so much for having me, reverend. i had a little fun with them today because i wanted them to know that there should be some substance to their slow begans. fair and balanced. let's have a tax plan that is fair. let's have a program going forward that is, in fact, balanced. as you know, we have been trying now to do the presidential's job bill. they refused to move forward on it. they are now saying, in order to

do the payroll tax holiday that we need to pay for it by cutting other programs. i believe that we ought to do it on unemployment insurance, the payroll tax holiday and the so called contingency account. well, if it is, why did they put it in their budget? i would ask all your listeners to look at ryan's budget or you would see that they are using the overseas contingency account to do that and there are $750 billion there for the taking. and that's what we ought to do. >> and that is in the ryan's plan. but congressman, you know this stuff better than i do. but i know some of the political rhetoric a little better than you do. and that is, that they really mean fair to billionaires and balance the books of

millionaires. let me show you what i mean. this is you and at fox today. >> now, whether you're -- >> we're raising taxes on any group at any time. most people are saying, that isn't the issue. the spending and getting it under control is. >> but that's absolutely not true. and most american people are not saying that. >> now, to show that you're not just talking policy, look at this graph. most american people, as you say, this is what they are saying. 43% said the job situation worried them the most. 22% americans said deficit worried them the most. this is the pugh research center. who are they talking about. republicans have been clear in every poll to say tax to rich the congressman, representative clyburn. >> you are absolutely correct. if you recall what i said to him, maybe the americans that you are talking to.

because the people that i'm talking to are saying to the tune of 65, 70%, that we ought to make this tax code fairer and when you've got a tax code that says to the lower 20% of households that your income only increased by 18% over the last 30 years and that up a 20% experienced household income of 65%, that tells you something is out of kilter. and so we need to do what is necessary to make sure that people of all -- from all walks of life are able to move forward at least in some similar fashion. the gap is getting wider and wider. it is unfair. it is you unsustainable and i believe we all know what happens to society when there is not a strong middle class.

>> that's right. >> we are squeezing people out of the middle class and there are two to three million of them in the last three years that have gone into the unemployment and underem ploit and categories and that is unsustainable and unfair. >> well, the middle class helped to save this country. it's time for this country to save the middle class. congressman james clyburn, thank you so much for joining us. i know you ran over from the hill to do it and we appreciate it. >> thanks so much for having me. ahead, gingrich goes after romney and willard is feeling the heat. and this iraq war hero might not have a house to come home to because of a bank foreclosure. it's outrageous. his father speaks with us live. stay with us.

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welcome back to "politics nation." mitt romney and newt gingrich are facing off and it's getting ugly. newt landed the first punch to mitt romney as an unconservative flip-flopper. >> i wouldn't lie to the american people. i wouldn't switch my position for political reasons. >> but mit swung right back. >> speaker gingrich is a good man. he and i have very different background. he's spent his last 30 or 40 years in washington. he's a lifelong politician. i think you have to have the credibility of understanding how the economy works and i do and that's one reason why i'm in this race. >> ew, lifelong politician. and newt wasted no time responding telling reporters, quote, i'm now being attacked by the former front-runner.

former front-runner? wow. that one stings. joining me now, the author of revival, the struggle for survival inside the obama white house and dana millbank, political reporter for the washington post. thank you both for being here tonight. richard, how does an extended romney-gingrich fight affect the race and a race against president obama also believed to be between whoever wins? >> well, these guys have both got to win in iowa. if newt has a paddle to anything, he's got to win there. romney has to win, too. and what this does from the democrat point of view is that it really -- it wounds both of them because you've got two sericereal flip-floppers going each other. they have the passion for the fight, the personal hatred for t you saw a flash of it in that

fox news interview with mitt romney and in the end a protracted fight for these two guys with the amount of research research, reversals that they have made, it's not going to help either of them as a nominee going forward. >> dana, we're starting to see newt ahead in many of the polls and he's way ahead and yet you and when you say 28, 41 numbers for newt and then compared to athis is iowa, carolina, florida, respectively, why aren't you rolling mit out more? well, they rolled him out on fox last night and i'm beginning to see why they had been slow on the roll. watch a little bit of his

interview gay rights, how can voters trust what they hear from you today is what you will believe if you win the white house? >> well, your list is not accurate. so, one, we're going to have to be better informed about my views on issues. this whole stream of thought that you began with, which is where you say they need to get elected f that were the case, would i be defending massachusetts health care? >> mandate to buy insurance is the right tool? >> brett, i don't know how many times i've said this, too. this is an unusual interview. all right. let's do it again. >> he doesn't interview well. >> i know. i'm afraid brett was going to give him a mullet on it and do it all over again. the campaign doesn't actually set it out but the national committee does. making sure that everybody saw that. the problem with keeping your candidate out of the lifeline is that your candidate doesn't get

all of the experience that he might want to have being in the public eye and giving the sorts of interviews. the romney strategy had been to hopefully carve up the vote. at this very late hour. gingrich has emerged of the anti-romney. it seems implausible to a lot of us. but as you can see for the polls, people are just desperate for everybody but mitt romney. >> you've got the inside of the white house. give me the inside of the romney camp who i don't think will ever see the white house unless it's on the visitor's tool tour but that's my personal opinion. are they rattled by this? >> are the romney people rattled by this? >> well. >> the gingrich surge in all of this. >> their path is to be the all of these people that have come and gone and really if they are getting under the skin of the whourks they are doing their job.

the problem at this stage is that those numbers that you showed up in the early states are bad but not that strong in new hampshire or in california now. so you're looking at a situation where they could go down in a lot of early states and that's where the inevitably argument collapses. you're inevitable right up to the point where you are not at all viable and that's the problem that they face so are they rattled by it? they are much more disciplined, much better organized, their communication is a lot better. canada only keeps by keeping them out of the public eye and out of the fray. he's got to get into the fray to stop this now. >> no, one who doesn't seem rattled is newt. i'm not saying that he sounds like what he's saying makes a lot of sense but he doesn't seem rattled because he was confronted at a campaign stop yesterday being asked about him being a lobbyist and the fact that "new york times" set up meetings, he was trying to help

persuade congressman and engaged in strategies but he says lobbyists, let's watch. >> i want no lobbying of any kind, period, for a practical reason. he and i'm going to be really direct. okay? i was charging $60,000 a speech. i didn't have to deal with anybody. if i didn't like the issue, i didn't deal with t if i didn't agree with you, i didn't say it. if i'm staying i had a press conference, it is by definition not lobbying. it is a public event communicating a public good because i am a citizen. >> i wasn't lobbying because i was charging $60,000 a speech and i wasn't lobbying because i spoke at a press conference after private meetings. >> yes, reverend. the first president bush actually called that high-figure speeches a white collar crime.

i'm not sure it's going to impress americans saying that he wasn't making millions giving speeches. of course he was not technically a lobbyist. all kinds of people are in the influence meddling business and newt was doing that. the real irony here is that the republican electorate was looking for the outsider. the anti-obama, the guy who was really against washington, they've got the two most consume mate insiders here, the finalists to choose from. >> technically, that is lobbying. if you organize an meeting between an executive and he was lobbying. he may not want to call it that. you don't have to say, this is what the legislature is to be a lobbyist. what kind of corporate executives are they to pay to

give a public speech when people are doing that any way? it is lobbying if these people were meeting on the sides. that's lobbying. >> richard, what do you call them? lovers of history. thanks for joining us. >> thanks, reverend. >> thank you. and this iraq soldier is ready to come home but he might not have a house when he gets there. a bank foreclosure on a soldier's family. this unpatriotic story is next. [ adrianna ] when i grill lobster, i make sure

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just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. [ female announcer ] get an aleve coupon in this sunday's paper. welcome back to "politics nation" out of the ashes of the fall of 2008, came the wall street reform act, the consumer protection bureau with one responsibility. protect consumers against corporate greed. and, of course, republicans attacked it. >> if you want to put people in jail, i want to second with what michele said, you ought to put in barney frank and chris dodd. >> i fought against the housing

and jobs destruction act. >> housing and jobs destruction act? it actually promotes transparency in an industry that fueled the collapse. the mortgage industry. it helped protect real people, including our men and women in the armed forces and know we have the banks at nearly 5,000 of those members of the military. people like tom collette, father of specialist aaron. he's been serving in iraq for two years and he's on his way home. problem is, there might not be a home when he gts there. tim's home has been foreclosed but he's fighting to stay there. this is unpatriotic and is unamerican and we have to fight. joining me now is tim collette, father to aaron, who will be

home from iraq this christmas. and senator chris murray from oregon who has been advocating for chris since june. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> tim, first, how have you been fighting this? what effort are you making to fight those that are trying to take your home? >> well, a few months back we filed a suit in federal court basically saying that they couldn't foreclose on our house. they did it in an illegal way and we're going to fight back to try to get the house back. >> senator, how are they doing this and what is it that they are using to try and get away with this? i'm talking about the banks that have foreclosed on people like tim. >> yes, tim's story is parallel to thousands that we hear about across this country, a situation where the servicer said, here's

what we're proposing as a modification of your mortgage. tim complied with that for a period of i think about two years. tim, correct me if i'm a little off there. but essentially then they said, well, it wasn't really a modification. we're sorry but we're foreclosing because you can't make the full payments that were required in the original mortgage. this story is repeated time and time again, where the mortgage modification program intended to help americans stay in their home, has been used as an instrument that in fact has misled consumers, misled them into further dire financial circumstances. >> so, tim, you modified the way they say you do what they say and then all of a sudden they flip back on you and say, no, you've got to go by the original price. here aaron is on his way home. been in iraq two years, serving this country and if you're not successful, he may not have a

home to come to? >> that's correct. when he came home this summer, that's when the whole thing started. they actually foreclosed 2 1/2 hours before he showed up on leave coming home from iraq. >> now, let me show you this. this is in february. stephanie, vice president of jpmorgan chase who has admitted overcharging 400,000 service members and illegally foreclosing 18,000 military homes. i she apologized at a february hearing. listen to this. >> we are deeply disappointed that we have letdown the men and women of our military. we will work very hard to earn back their trust and yours and we are committed to doing so. >> senator, but sorry's not enough when you have people like aaron that is having to face leaving their home. >> absolutely not.

it's not enough. we have the report from the 5,000 service members have been illegally foreclosed on. this is not just morally long, it's against the law to foreclose on a service member. and i must say it disturbs me greatly that when major financial institutions were in trouble in new york, the government did backflips to save them but we have done so little, way too slow, way too little to help the working families in america stay in their homes. >> now, we got a statement about mr. collette. his position on change dot argue asks for one thing, to stay in his home through his son's leave, which ends in august. we have granted that request. all of the options we have offered extend him through the

end of september. we have forwarded his loan modification request to fannie mae but a modification was not approved. this can't happen. i mean, what can we do, senator, to push the envelope? what can we do to help tim? >> we need to do a tremendous amount. we need to confirm a director, the consumer financial protection bureau so they have the full power under the law to set fair terms. we need to make them a mortgage modification program which tim applied for and thought he had been accepted into, absolutely one where there is a single point of contact to reduce confusion, make sure that there is not a dual track of foreclosure being pursued at the same time that the modification is being pursued. we need to have every single contract go through a third party review because so many

mistakes have been made thousands of times over and certainly in this particular case, i encourage the bank to reach out and stand by their original proposal of lowered payments and consider that a modification and make this right for tim and his family. >> tim, let me make it clear for the american people that are watching. you are not asking for a favor here. you're not asking, despite the fact that aaron has served his country for charity, you just want to be able to pay at the modified price that they had told you that you could pay. am i right? >> that's correct. that's what a lot of us are. it's not just about me. we have hundreds and thousands of people, if not millions, in the same position. we don't want a hand out. a lot of people have been in their houses for 18 or 20 years. this isn't brand new. we are hardworking people, a lot of business owners. we don't want a hand out. we just want a fair deal. >> tim, senator, i join you. tim doesn't want a hand out. give him a way out. thanks to both of you for joining us tonight. we're going to stay on this.

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we reported earlier that newt gingrich says he made $60,000 per speech. that may be a good thing. he may not have his old day job to fall back on if this presidential thing doesn't work out. listen to this hilarious sound bite from his town hall meeting last night. >> one of the real changes when you stop run start running for president and stop becoming an analyst for fox, you -- >> true and we all remember the hours that you spent in the fat-free zone. >> nazis don't have a right to

put up a sign inle holocaust museum. >> the obama administration doesn't understand america. they don't understand how the american people feel. >> if you don't love the job creators, where do you think the jobs are coming from? >> but, of course, it wasn't just you, newt. as you said, nobody over there is required to know what they are talking about. >> he's blaming the american people. he's saying that the american people are lazy. >> it's good to talk to you. nobody can question your leadership. >> we did one in february of '09. it's been a disaster. it's a lie to asay that it's a success for people. >> you realize that you messed up about paul revere? >> you know what, i didn't mess up about paul revere. i know. >> pepper spray, it burns your eye?