find it by tomorrow, i promise. willie, it's way too early. >> it is "morning joe." we'll see you back here tomorrow. stay tuned right now for chuck todd. damning with praise. newt gingrich calls mitt romney a great manager. and the usually cool romney starts showing a little strain. republican power brokers seem to have found their leading men. now they're going to start going after after each other. herman cain remains defiant saying the allegations against him are simply a conspiracy. he won't be forced out of the race, but he is yet to talk with his wife face-to-face since the most recent charge. he'll do tomorrow. and the dow soars 490 points, the seventh largest point gain ever after the fed and international banks strike a deal over the europe debt crisis. skeptics are saying, we've been down this road before. we'll get a reality check. it's thursday, december 1, 2011.

thi this is conscio this is "the daily rundown." mitt romney goes up with his first major tv ad in the hawkeye state. it's a introduction to voters an implicit comparison to the candidate emerging as the chief challenger, newt gingrich. >> i spent my life in the private sector. i've competed with companies around the world. i've learned something about how it is that economies grow. and i'm in favor of cutting spending, capping federal spending as a percentage of gdp at 20% or less and have a balanced budget amendment. >> gingrich returns to iowa. his campaign headquarters in iowa just opened yesterday, but newt says he's now the front runner in the republican race, and he dinged romney in an interview last night. >> whereas i would have thought originally he was it is going to be mitt and not mitt. i think it's -- it may turn out to be newt and not newt. and clearly the more

conservative candidate by any rational standard. i think the person who is able to debate obama and draw a sharp and defined contrast has an enormous advantage. i don't think you go to the middle. you bring the middle to you. >> after hearing that clip on sean hannity's radio show yesterday, romney pushed back aggressively. >> the biggest difference between us is probably our life experience. he has spent his -- i don't know, last 30, 40 years in washington. and is -- a career politician, and washington person. i would take exception with him on his characterization of his conservative credentials related to mine or his electability. that is something which time will tell. >> if you can't tell, the romney campaign is sort of tiptoeing in this decision of how aggressively to go after gingrich. all of these other anti-romneys have faded on their own. is there enough time for gingrich to do that as well?

romney isn't the only rival getting into it with gingrich and that makes the romney campaign smile. his reputation for going after people who disagree with him was on full display yesterday after michele bachmann called his immigration position amnesty. >> some people are challenged, you know? and it's unfortunate. i don't a student who couldn't figure out where things were or what things were or what the right date was. >> speaker gingrich was a professor and professors don't like to be challenged, but he would have to answer why the textbook that he wrote, which is the letter to "the wall street journal" in 2004, he would have to be the one to explain why it's inaccurate. he said that he favored president bush's comprehensive immigration reform bill, which was commonly called an amnesty proposal. >> interesting there. bachmann calling newt a professor. the professor calling bachmann a student. now, newt may be condescending a little bit, but on if you can

you'lly challenged, bachmann touted her experience during last week's national security debate had this to say on iran. >> you may have heard that there is a break-in at the british embassy, and the british had to pull their people out. that's exactly what i would do. we wouldn't have an american embassy in iran. i wouldn't allow that to be there. >> of course, the u.s. hasn't had an embassy in iran in over 30 years. now, bachmann's campaign followed with a statement, saying she is fully aware that we dot no have an embassy in iran and was simply speaking in the hypothetical that if she was president of the united states and if we had an embassy in iran, she would have taken the same actions as the british. finally, despite all of the talk about herman cain reassessing his campaign follow these latest allegations of infidelity, cain shows no sign he's dropping out of the race. his primary is seven months away and told supporters the allegations against him were a conspiracy.

>> stupid people are ruining america. they're attacking my character, my reputation and my name. in order to try and bring me down. if she were texasing me -- at -- >> cain acknowledged in an interview with fox news that the allegations have taken a toll and said he'll decide whether to stay in the race next week. the campaign unveiled this new tv ad set to debut friday in iowa. >> the engine of economic growth is the business sector. now, this is good. this is bad. if you make me america's ceo, we, the people, will take this country back. >> but late yesterday, he also tellingly said this about his wife, gloria. >> i have talked to my wife many times since monday about this

situation. i have not talked to her face-to-face. that's what i said. we have had many lengthy conversations. this is another reason why that i am not going to make a decision until after we talk face-to-face. >> one thing i would just adhere, when you look at this, unless it's his family truly asking him to get out of the race, what is his incentive to get out? doesn't he have a better shot at repairing his image in the public if he wants to at least have a speaking career, things like that, if he stays in the race? after all, we're talking 33 days to iowa. all right. more than two dozen republican governors got together in orlando this week to talk strategy for the coming year, but only a handful have endorsed a candidate. one of them, bobby jindal, is here, backing rick perry. and we're going to have a larger conversation but i want to start with your backing of governor perry. he is struggling right now to get back into the conversation. he's going to actually be on

"the tonight show" a little bit later. didn't get that union later endorsement later, something a conservative candidate would want to get. what's your advice for governor perry at this point in the campaign, governor jindal? >> bottom line, i think rick has got a great record to run on, a great story to tell. obviously, look, we're not going to have the best debater, the most polished speaker. president obama is probably one of the best speakers i've seen in a generation in politics. but i think the american people are tired of the speeches. what they're looking for, results. rick can run on his record. he has been governor for texas for nearly 1 1 years, they have become the second largest economy in the country. you look at his record, while under president obama, we've lost 2 million jobs. under governor perry, texas created 1 million jobs, nearly 40% have been in texas. he has cut taxes now 65 times, $14 billion, revamped the texas tort system. as a result, got a great economic record that he can run on. he can show that he has

delivered results. i think that the challenge for president obama -- he's a great speaker, ran a great campaign four years ago. he had never run anything before he became president of the united states. and i think the voters are looking for a candidate with executive experience, with a proven track record. that's what rick perry can offer. >> but right now, republicans apparently are splitting between at this point mitt romney and newt gingrich and i know the way this race has gone, one half of that equation seems to change every couple weeks. but are you comfortable if it does come down to a choice between mitt romney and newt gingrich if governor perry doesn't make it into the quote, unquote, finals? >> oh, look, absolutely. i'm going to support whoever our nominee is. the bottom line is, we need a fundamental course direction in this country. i think this next election will be much more about the direction of our country more than speaking styles or who looks the best in debates. the reality is this. this is one of the most important elections in our lifetimes to ensure that our children have a better quality of life than we have enjoyed. every generation left more

opportunities for our children. this is what's at stake. under president obama, he has grown government spending to 24% of gdp, three years in a row of trillion-dollar plus deficits. $15 trillion accumulated debt now equal to our gdp. you look at our economic record, post world war ii. we're in the worst recession since the great depression. we've got to answer our fundamental question. do we want our government to be permanently larger with higher taxes, do we want to go the way of europe? the future -- our future, if we continue down this path, all we need to do is look at greece, italy, the struggling countries within the eurozone. or do we want a republican candidate who knows we have to cut government spending, we've got to cut the waste, we've got to cut taxes, got to grow the private sector to create more good-paying jobs for our children and grabbed children. this election, i think is going to be a direction -- an election about the future direction of our country. it's not about personalities -- a lot of things that seem to important today aren't going to be important a year from now when we're focused on the different platforms and ideas. this is truly an election about

ideas and governing philosophies. >> now, governor, you brought up the issue of the government spending as a percent of gdp. but revenues as apercent of gdp are at lowest levels in some 16 years, below 50%. that's an issue, too. is it all spending cuts? you're not for any sort of way to raise revenues, potentially having to increase some amount of taxes that come into the government system? it's one thing to cut, but you can't cut all the way down if you do a historical average, 18%. don't you need a little bit of both? >> well, three things. one, you're absolutely right that revenues are down. the best way to get revenues back up, you look at the independent forecast like cbo. the best way to get revenues back up to their historic norms is for the economy to be growing again. we're at -- almost record 9% unemployment rates for extended periods of time. that's the number-one reason revenues have fallen. but secondly, i'm certainly in favor of flattening and simplifying and lowering the tax rates. the tax of getting rid of a lot of the special treatments and

loopholes in there that would generate economic growth, would generate more revenues. what i'm not for is raising taxes. raising marginal rates. i think that would be a huge mistake, especially in the middle of this recession. back in louisiana, where i'm governor, we have cut government, we have cut government -- the budget by 26%. cut taxes. we have not raised taxes as a result. we have actually raised per capita income over the last four years. highest-ranking we have had in over 80 years, our unemployment rate below the national average every month. 13 straight months of private sector job growth. and you see that from other republican governors across the country as they have held the line on taxes, as they have cut spending. they have been able to produce record economic growth. >> governor, you have brought up that this is going to be sort of a fight over the economy and the middle class and i want to play for you a clip from president obama last night and then follow about a briefing you got yesterday at the rga. here's what president obama said last night. >> they'll fight with everything they have to protect the tax cuts of the wealthiest americans, but they've got no

problem breaking the oath when it comes to raising taxes on middle class families. just to score some political points. >> now, a republican polster, frank lunts, gave you guys a presentation about the occupy wall street movement. and he said one of the things he has seen in this public opinion data, it's put republicans on the wrong side messaging wise when it comes to protecting wall street versus the middle class and i believe in his words he said if next year's campaign is couched as a battle over the middle class, democrats will win. >> a couple of things. one, i think the president -- instead of -- right now, he's basically campaigning. and i understand he's going to have to do that next year. i would rather he actual lead. i would rather he be forcing congress to balance the budget, to cut spending to actually produce a plan that will grow jobs. he's ignoring the message the voters sent in 2010. he and senator reid and the rest of the democrats in washington have been ignoring that message. but secondly, look, i don't

agree with the tactics or certainly everything the occupy wall street movement stands for, but i do think they're articulating a genuine frustration from hard-working americans, tax-paying americans who aren't out there protesting but worried for the future of their children. and that's why i think it is so important that this election be about ideas. and when you look at what governors are doing, governors don't get to print money, borrow money from china. we're having to make tough choices. i was re-elected with a historic margin in louisiana even after we had the fewest number of state government jobs in over 20 years, the highest credit rating in over 25 years and you're seeing the same kinds of reforms take place in indiana, mississippi, pennsylvania, wisconsin and a lot of other states, with conservative governors. third point, though, is that, look, the republican party has always stood for upper mobility for creating opportunities where any child can pursue the american dream. doesn't married what your last name in, if you're born into a wealthy family or not. and that's what frightens the

american people. they're worried if we don't fix this and stop government from growing and taking over health care and all of these other things, our children aren't going to have that same chance to pursue an american -- the american dream. that's what our party has to remind people we stand for. >> i'm going leave it there. republican governor bobby jindal from louisiana. thanks for coming on this morning. >> thanks, chuck. >> all right. a stock surge in the midst of an awful economy around the world. the dow rockets up nearly 500 points. what does it mean, and will it last? plus, nbc's exclusive interview with vice president biden in iraq. what he is saying about ending the iraq war and whether he'll run for president in 2016. but first, a look ahead at the president's schedule. president obama is commemorating world aids day later this morning. both former presidents clinton and is bush will be involved in the event. by the way, you can seat white house is honoring the occasion with a large red ribbon hanging there on the north entrance.

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we're just a few minutes away from the opening bell as investors try to extend the dow's gigantic 490-point gain yesterday. but while the surge was about global banks, the shift is back to the economy today. i'm bringing in the economics reporter for "the national journal" u.s. economics editor for "the economist." welcome, gentlemen. greg, let me start with you. yesterday the stock surge was apparently all about what the central banks did. but let's -- what is the status of the u.s. economy? we get the status report tomorrow on jobs. a bunch of reports came out today. walk me through it.

>> the amazing thing, for all of the bad news going on in europe, the u.s. economy seems to be levitating above it. one of the reasons the market did so well yesterday, there was a private payroll survey that suggested november could be the best month since the spring. >> over 200,000 jobs. >> yeah. sometime in the springtime, before oil shot up and we had the problems in japan. problems in europe. debt ceiling debacle. so amazingly, there is not a small chance the u.s. economy could be accelerating here. >> now, jim, you were writing yesterday that you thought what the central banks did, you're not too thrilled about. why? >> i mean, i don't think that what the central banks did yesterday solves any of the problems for europe. >> doesn't it buy time? >> it does maybe buy a little bit of time. >> that's what they seem to need, especially germany. >> exactly. here's what's really important about it. what's important is both scary and encouraging. the scary part is, central banks are really worried that europe is not just a european problem anymore. that it could spread across the entire global economy and start bringing down the rest of the recovery. the good news is that they seem

to be willing to do something about it. and so even though there was a small step, like greg calls it a band-aid on a band-aid, it's still a step. and that gave markets confidence and like you said, might buy a little bit of time for bigger steps that could help to wall off europe's problems from the rest of the world. >> you know, greg, one thing about --ive i feel like economi forecasts, you guys in this community always seem to miss the acceleration. you get the -- the trend lines are always -- you guys nail it. >> sure. >> but it hockey sticks both ways. >> right. >> in a way either downward or upward faster. what is that potential in this case? every indication seems that is this a recovering economy. is there a hockey stick moment coming? >> one of the interesting questions, this hockey stick was supposed to come a year ago. if you recall when the administration and the republicans hammered out the agreement for the payroll tax cut and the extension of the bush tax cuts, people were putting their forecast numbers up to like 4% for this year. and then what happened? we got a whole pile of bad luck, the arab spring which shot oil prices up by 30 bucks a barrel,

the earthquake in japan disrupted global and industrial production and then all of the problems in europe and then we had our own homegrown shoot ourselves in the foot moment. so if you sort of say, well, if we can go a year without all of those bouts of bad luck and bad policy, maybe there are underlying strengths in the economy will show through. we have put a not of monetary stimulus -- the federal reserve out there jamming the banks full of cash. we are actually seeing market rates so low the housing market, you know, is actually showing -- it's know -- the dead parrot -- that was only sleeping seems to be coming back to life. >> the dead cat bounce? >> not a dead cat bounce, a dead parrot coming back to life. so now we've heard positive news that the republicans and the administration might be able to hammer out an agreement to extend some of that temporary stimulus. mitch mcconnell saying, yeah, we do it. maybe next year is going to be a good year. if the europeans don't screw it up. >> now, what about u.s. corporations and them actually taking this money that's been on

the sidelines ask starting to use it for hiring? >> let me be the -- the very -- >> you're the pessimist here. >> i'm the pessimist, i don't i do want to compliment greg's monte python reference, that was amazing. the reason why we probably aren't going to see any time right away, big acceleration in hiring or investment in u.s. companies, there is a ton of uncertainty left in the global economy, starting with europe. until you have a really good idea that that's not going to spread, and it could, all the way through the -- to the united states and knock us back into not just a recession but maybe a depression, it's dicey about whether you would want to invest money. and that's why i'm pessimistic. >> the ground downgrade of the ratings which a lot of people thought could impact the markets negatively and then the central banks thing overshadowed it. is there a silver lining that forces them to look at their european debt and maybe try to figure out a way to make sure they don't have as much exposure? >> the silver linings have

already done so. significant reduction in exposures to europe. the u.s. banking system is about as ring fenced from the problems in europe as you can get. however, if europe goes into a kegs and the odds are well over 50%, it's hard to see how the united states escapes that. >> always good to have you both. >> thank you. all right. back to politics. gingrich's gamble with very still staff and even less organization on the ground, can he compete in iowa? 33 days and counting to the caucuses. we're in the hawkeye state next. but first, today's trivia question. when is the last time republicans picked up a congressional seat in massachusetts? tweet me the answer at chuck todd and at "the daily rundown." the answer and more coming up on "the daily rundown." the employee of the month isss...

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newt gingrich back in iowa today to bolster his immigration stance with some conservative voters. he'll sign a pledge to secure the border fence during one of three events in the hawkeye state. nbc is in iowa. al alex mo is with us. you have been covering gingrich every time he gets to iowa. he always does draw a pretty big crowd. walk me through the events and places he's going. >> that's right. you know, last night he had an event in the western part of the state, had more than 100 people there, one of his biggier crowds in iowa. three events today, notably the one you mentioned. he'll be signing the pledge that michele bachmann signed a few weeks ago. and later on tonight, he's going to be speaking at the polk county gop dinner, one of the big counties in iowa, usually has a lot of the numbers that come out for the caucus, and he'll be the only dand cat speaking there. so really gives him an opportunity to make his pitch to the people in the des moines area. >> we know of that the early primary states, south dakota was one he was able to organize on the cheap when he didn't have much money to spend a couple

months ago. its proximity to georgia, volunteers there from his old days representing that state in congress. what evidence are you seeing that he is starting to put together an iowa operation? >> well, yesterday he officially moved in, if you'll say, to his iowa headquarters. i was there when furniture was being delivered. i'm told it's going to be up and running for volunteers this weekend. and by tomorrow, he's going to have five staffers in iowa, which doesn't seem like that much, but they said they're confident they'll be able to win the iowa caucuses, do really well here with the amount of staff they have. so they're going full steam ahead, even though it's small compared to some of the other campaigns in the state. >> and so far, isn't he the only da candidate right now polling in the top three who is yet -- polling in the top six, frankly, who has yet to spend a dime on paid advertising? >> that's right. we haven't really seen anything. the only thing i've heard, he's out doing some fund-raising calls across the country. and you know, we haven't seen anything in iowa.

i'm told that they might come out with ads, you know, as we go forward but they're really not sure if we can do what they've been doing and still poll so highly. it doesn't make sense they are them to spend the money. use it elsewhere. >> it's been an unbelievable campaign. alex moe, our nbc force. good to see you. >> thanks. up next, is there a republican rift in the house? >> any republican who will not admit to this or confront it and discuss it head-on is not dealing with reality. >> we're going to talk to a republican congressman who is calling out members of his own party over the debt debacle. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. makes sr smartphone's most powerful trading app ? total access - to everything. from idea to research to trade. including financials, indicators and real-time streaming quotes. whether you check your investments every day or every minute, our app can take them from

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. good morning and welcome to "morning joe" my contacts are so annoying. i can't wait to take 'em out. [ male announcer ] know the feeling? try acuvue® oasys brand contact lenses with hydraclear® plus for exceptional comfort. it feels like it disappeared on my eye! [ male announcer ] discover why it's the brand eye doctors trust most for comfort. acuvue® oasys brand. a few of the stories making headlines this morning, vice president biden says the u.s. is not claiming victory in iraq, but believes iraqi leaders and security forces are capable of

controlling their own destiny with a month to go before u.s. troops are out. biden told nbc's ann curry the time is right. >> this is no rush. over 4,500 dead, 30,000 wounded. this is no rush. this three years since we took office almost. we've done this in a way that no one thought could be done. 144,000 troops when we took office. now in a position with highly trained iraqi military training their police force. this is no rush. >> biden also told ann curry he would not close the door on a white house run in 2016. former louisiana republican governor buddy roamer hasn't had much luck in the gop race so now he's seeking the nomination of a third party of sorts, as well. roamer announced wednesday he'll seek the nomination from the group americans elect. he's also still running as a republican. americans elect is not really a

third party, just another way to get a nomination of a third place on the ballot. the reverend billy graham is waking up in a north carolina hospital, where he is undergoing tests to see if he has pneumonia. the 93-year-old pastor was admitted wednesday with congestion and a cough and a slight fever. secretary clinton is in the middle of a landmark visit to myanmar with a message from the white house. she is delivering letters from president obama to the country's leaders, praising strides in the, quote, path to a reform, but staying candid about u.s. concerns. >> we're not at the point yet that we can consider lifting sanctions that we have in place. but any steps that the government takes will be carefully considered and will be, as i said, matched. >> secretary clinton also met with ann san sue chi who spent

years as a political prisoner. house republicans pointed their fingers at the other side of the aisle for a number of problems on capitol hill, but one freshman member asked his conference to take a look in the mirror when it comes to revenues. >> historically, we have been around 18%. plus or minus. revenue is a percent of gross domestic product. right now, we're less than 15%. that too is a problem. any republican who will not admit to this or to confront it and discuss it head-on is not dealing with reality. these are the numbers. it's not how you feel. it's where the numbers lead us. we need to be a leadership team here, a body that respects, seeks out and is guided by the facts. >> well, virginia congressman scott ridgel joins me now, you represent the second district in

virginia. that's the -- among other places, virginia beach. >> yeah, the beautiful southeast part of virginia, the entrance to the chesapeake bay. >> there you go. >> the chamber of commerce is going to be happy. >> it's a beautiful place, chuck. and highest concentration of men and women in uniform in the country. >> we were talking before this interview started, you were a businessman, car dealer for 30 years. you've been here 11 months. pretty frustrate by how the system works? >> well, i think evidence by the fiscal trajectory our country is on, it's a dysfunctional place. it is truly broken. and i am confident, though, that with the right leadership and headed in the right direction, you know, we'll get this sorted out. >> it seemed when you went on the floor you were frustrated. okay, there is a spending problem and you pointed out, talked about the fact that it's 44% of gdp, a historic high. but you also pointed out that revenue is coming in at a historic low and you can't just deal with one without dealing

with the other. but that seemed to be an almost impossibility inside that super committee. >> well, i appreciate you pointing out that what preceded those comments were my comments on our spending. >> right. >> and from the president to i think most people in congress, there's agreement that the principle driver of the deficit and our debt, which is threatening our country, is driven by medical expenses, medicare, medicaid and medical inflation generally. that's the principle driver of our debt. what i was pointing out in my -- that part of my 42-minute remarks was that, you know, i've been looking at financial statements for 30 years. and our country has a financial statement. it's really these numbers that are right here. they're very simple, in some respects. i know there's lots of zeros. but if you take the zeros off, the numbers are really quite simple. and as you pointed out, historically, we've been around 18% of our gross domestic product coming in as revenue. and now we're under 15%.

the last couple of years. >> the last time we were that low was preworld war ii. >> right. also keep in mind, this is where i found it very difficult in washington to get proper context to numbers. because every number is multiplied by ten. it's kind of an odd way of doing math. but if you look at our own tax code that we essentially have in place now, our tax code did generate over 18% in 2006 and 2007. which is a pretty good number, but still keep in mind that our historic spending has been at 19%. >> so what -- you had had said, and i've noticed some other freshmen members of congress are starting speak out, you came in with this whole change message, and suddenly you're findings it's very hard to have much influence, you know. those of us that cover this place, we can tell you that, because the seniority system -- i happen to think seniority is the worst thing in congress. it is the most corrosive element, i think, in congress.

but that's my personal opinion. >> well, i am a proponent of term limits, personally. i think 12 years is the right number. i'm really proud of our leadership from speaker boehner to leader cantor. they really have listened to the freshmen. i believe that. no one has ever -- >> it sounds like you are willing to have more of a compromised conversation when it comes to what would happen -- >> i'm glad we're here this morning so i can clarify and provide, you know, some direction on this. overwhelmingly, the key to our prosperity is to get our economy going again. the driver of revenue should be the growth of the american economy, and i think the -- really, the grand irony of what's coming out of this beautiful building behind us here in the administration is that the policies that they're moving forward, although i think they're done with good intent, i truly believe it's -- we're

regulating ourselves out of our prosperity. the difference -- when i mentioned that three-point delta and really it's a four-point delta compared to historical spending, the principle way to get this fixed is to get the economy going again. let's look at energy for an example. secretary salazar made it clear, and i think with the consent surely of the president, that all of the energy resources off the coast of virginia, we can't -- we can't leverage those, chuck. it's not right. >> well, do you understand, though, that given what happened in the gulf at that time -- i mean, we were a month earlier -- i believe the president opened up much of the atlantic. he had signed this. and then the gulf happened and then everything -- >> chuck, we're smart people. we can figure this out. this is a true story. i just yesterday -- it hit me, struck me when i was coming on to your show. i thought, just yesterday, i was talking to my son, justice, in virginia beach, saying, justice, you -- you ought to go and consider north dakota. 3.5% unemployment. 1.5% unemployment in some of the

smaller towns. it's all because of the -- of that backen -- the energy -- energy can really fuel job creation in america. it's been projected up to 1.2 million jobs could be created in that sector alone. surely it would help the second congressional district of virginia. >> all right. i want to just quickly go back to what you were showing your frustration about. what do you think it's going to take to get other republicans to agree with you in saying, look, we've got to deal with this revenue problem, as well? >> well, i -- as i shared on the house floor, i know of no other way to make decisions than the numbers. and we do need to be a body that seeks out, respects and really moves forward based on numbers. now, 3 to 4% delta there where we're essentially losing money as a country, you could think of it in a business term, that we're losing money as a country.

i think most -- and potentially all of it can be -- can be met by the growth of our economy. now, if we determine that, look, the best that this tax code is going to do is, for example, 17.5%, then i think we're going to have to have a very candid discussion within congress itself and across this great land as to can we fund defense at its proper level? can we meet our deep obligation to our seniors with medicare, and can we build new roads which are deteriorating? is can we do that at 17.5%? if the answer is yes, then great. if not, we have to have another discussion. >> scott regell, republican from virginia beach. thanks for coming on. the ittempers are flaring, romney gets into it with the media. a voter gets nasty with gingrich. we're 33 days, folks. and newt's latest line on lobbying.

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newt gingrich got an earful from a santorum supporter last night after gingrich said food stamps can be used to, quote, go to hawaii. >> and that food stamp thing is one of them. >> iowa already has a computer system. would you not pay money so the people on food stamps buy beer and everything else. it's a very specific thing. in iowa -- you said it was a nationwide thing. and you're wrong.

>> perry bacon, a political reporter for "the washington post" and visiting professor from georgia and michael duffy from "time" magazine. welcome, all. we're starting to see the front-runner -- this week's front-runner, newt gingrich, starting -- they're starting to feel a little bit of heat, as well. but listen to what brett bare said of fox news about his interview with romney that we've all sort of raised our eyebrows about, because mitt romney hasn't done a lo of one-on-one interviews. listen to how he said mitt romney responded after the cameras were off. listen. >> he said he thought it was overly aggressive. >> he did? he said that to you? he said it was overly aggressive? >> he did. >> wow. >> and as we were walking in the walk and talk. and then after we finished, he went to his holding room and then came back and said, he didn't like the interview and thought it was uncalled for. >> michael duffy.

mitt romney overreacting a little bit to that interview? >> it would have been better if it had been on tape and then we could have seen for ourselves just exactly how aggressive he was in his complaint about brett baier being aggressive. otherwise he's just judging his own performance here and so it's a little hard to know. >> fair enough. >> usually candidates when they want to make a change in attitude, will do this on camera. it's hard for us to imagine that mitt romney is somehow, you know -- had a personality change but he's now up against newt gingrich and gingrich has a volcan volcanic, quick way with words that romney is not known for. so he may feel some need to take up his game. >> it's interesting, you guys had a story, you get the sense the romney campaign, not fully prepared to handle gingrich's rise, and not sure -- do they see if he will just kill himself, his candidacy or do they have to help it along? >> they probably have to help it along because it's so close to the caucuses now.

you had so much time for rick perry -- perry had four months to implode, herman cain several months, as well. gingrich now has been in the lead for two weeks now and hasn't blundered yet and looks like he may not blunder on his own. >> cynthia tucker, being somebody who spent a lot of time with gingrich up close and personal covering him at the atlanta constitution, what stroke me about the gingrich moment there with that voter is how he didn't react. that there was almost as if -- there's been a little bit of discipline in gingrich that maybe the gingrich of ten years ago might have shot back at that voter. >> we'll see. chuck, whenever i'm inflating my own tires, i'm always afraid i'm going to pump them up too much and they're going to blow up in my face. newt gingrich is a lot like that. he pumps himself up, pumps himselves up, we've seen it. he referred to himself sort of as a celebrity in a speech the other day. >> that was an odd moment. >> it was a very odd moment. so you think that any moment

now, newt is going to that any newt is going to pump himself up so much that he just blows up. it may not happen in time for mitt romney. so midst may have to get out there and urge him on. >> that tape in iowa was a good reminder of how glamorous and exciting it is to run for president. >> we haven't exactly had a lot of those moments. stick around. more after the break. we asked when was the last time republicans picked up a congressional seat in massachusetts. the answer? 1992. friends over at the university of minnesota and did the math. massachusetts democrats have won

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let's bring back our panel. all right. 33 days to go. newt gingrich says he's not going to run a single negative ad. >> he will have lots of money in big dollar amounts who will be happy -- >> they will run the negative ad. >> he will have other people do it for him. >> mitt romney finally going on the air in iowa. he's not all in in iowa but he is not ignoring it. he is seeing can he steal it? win it, win the race early? >> there was too much of an

opportunity for him to get in and win as long as the other not mitt romneys were faltering. he didn't at least make a try in iowa. on the other hand he doesn't want to go all in and have what happened to him in 2008 where he put in a lot of money and he did poorly. >> newt gingrich is his own pundit and analyst and strategist. and perry, he went around yesterday saying mitt romney has got to find a place to win. wait a minute. that's what you have to do. but that's newt and as a reporter you love covering the guy because you don't know what he is going to say. but he might be on to something. where does mitt romney win outside of new hampshire? >> the assumption is florida. the conservatives win that. let me come back to the ads thing briefly.

maybe newt doesn't have to run negative ads because the debates are tumly more important. maybe you can win the perry and cane votes. >> there is going to be a two week gap. >> the cover story in "time" this week about romney is one of the wish written stories. >> that is an endorsement. this is one of them and there are parts of it that are just -- i couldn't have done it. >> joe klein always spins a sweet one. >> follow me on twitter. >> my colleagues wrote an excellent piece about romney strategy on how to deal with gingrich and how they don't have one and making it up as you go. >> always a good campaign to follow when you make it up as

you go. we will have breaking news on the november jobs number reports. we will see allen krueger and his first appearance since he got that job. coming up next, chris jansing and company and andrea mitchell reports. see you later. [ coughing continues ] [ female announcer ] more pollution from power plants means more childhood asthma attacks. [ labored breathing ] there's technology that makes the air cleaner, but too many plants don't use it. we can't wait. epa must update power plant standards to protect our kids. [ baby coughing ] how about making it brighter. more colorful. ♪ and putting all our helpers to work? so we can build on our favorite traditions by adding a few new ones.

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