biggest weakness, his gigantic ego. to take credit for beating communism and being as innovative as ray crock at mcdonald's and reinventing the political campaign. this rubs people the wrong way. this may be the first seed we see of a slight disinflation of the gingrich balloon. >> i disagree, i don't believe that modesty is a requirement for being president and having a big ego has never been a problem. look, this president has a big ego, had a big ego as a candidate -- >> maybe i didn't quite brag about his toric accomplishments in the same way, i don't think people are looking for a self-ee facing leader. what's the downside to saying i'm a great guy, vote for me. >> let's play a little sound from gingrich yesterday. it puts it all in perspective.

>> i'm clearly the more conservative candidate byny rational standard. i had 90% standing for 20 years, helped ronald reagan and jack kemp develop supply side economics and lead the effort to defeat communism in the congress. >> i mean, what can't he do? but literally, some of these things can be fact checks. he forgets there is a paper trail here. when we're talking about a healthy sense of ego, to what agree does that become a liability if it's an ee go that big? >> wait until mitt romney starts fact checking him, i don't think they necessarily saw this coming the way they did with the others. but you have romney getting really testy in interviews with fox news, suddenly pretty worried about gingrich, going after him in a way he has not done with others. >> all of his bragging, and these aren't humble brags, full blown, i developed supply side economics, no, you didn't. whether or not that's a good thing, you didn't do that. but also, it assumes that we're

living in a world where primary voters care a lot about your government achievement. i think there's another layer of this. i agree with everything richard is saying, you can get a withaw with a lot of bragging, obama wrapped up his tremendous success which was alsoç a narrative of america breaking barriers down. there was a thing broader than him but also about him. but i don't think bragging to this ee lek tore rat about everything you did in government will get you as far. >> the problem for gingrich, it's a sign of weakness and insecurity. having been in the house for so as long as when communism was actually invented, he doesn't have a lot to say. he wasn't a governor -- >> that's an interesting. >> he had a couple of years of messing around with president clinton which he would argue would extremely successful and everyone else would consider a complete disaster. if you don't have much to brag about you go overboard and have excess on where president obama

kand dade obama was making the historical illusions about his place in history, it was more subtle than this. i'm part of the american story and this american story is one of hope and success. >> let's keep in mind the infamous quote that paul krugman reminded us of, newt gingrich sounds like a smart person to dumb people. i've totally bungled that. but the idea that this is just in kind of narrative he's spinning, it's interesting that you think it's born out of insecurity. >> absolutely. >> that's psychology 101. >> really rich people talk about money. >> and people who have not spent their careers in washington, this is his biggest liability and you've seen the romney campaign start to talk about this, newt gingrich is a creature of washington, all of the stuff he brags about his washington experience, what has he done in the private sector. the private sector experience,

he's going to get beat up on that. but his biggest vulnerability is not about bragging but it's not conservative enough for the republican electoratelectorate. romney will keep beating him down. >> which is nuts. >> it's true. his past, his global warming ads with nancy pelosi. >> the ad will be replayed over and over. >> we just seen the tip of the iceberg of the romney campaign taking on newt gingrich. it's going to start in a big way and may not be scorched earth but this is a professional campaign. they are not surprised by the fact they didn't necessarily think it would be gring rich but knew it would be somebody who would rise up. >> we know as you mentioned casey, that the romney campaign is now beginning to respond and i think they've been obviously waiting in the sidelines, happy to be the alternative to barack obama and engage in the ad war with the white house but now it looks like they are making a play -- >> i don't think they calculated it was going to happen less than a month before the iowa caucuses, that's he's going to

rise up. not just nationally but in the early states where it counts. he has all kinds of vulnerabilities, how do you run with three marriages and extra marital affair in socially conservative iowa. you heard romney say, i've been consistent in my family and faith, been married more than 41 years. you'll see -- >> marriage being the one thing where mitt romney has been consistent. >> he's starting to say it over and over again. >> one thing that always, whenever we talk about gingrich because for so long we said this guy is not running for president. there seems to have been a turning of a corner and as he has gone up in the polls, newt gingrich may actually think he's running for president now. >> he said, originally thought it was going to be mitt and not mitt. now he's going to say it's newt and not newt. i can't figure it out.ç i don't know if he thinks he can be the next president of the united states or just loves the

ego adullation and the lavish campaign lifestyle he leads. >> he's going to staten island this weekend and there's nothing wrong with is staten island. >> don't knock it. >> for a book signing. from all outside accounts not much of a ground game in iowa if he intends to be a viable candidate, one would think -- >> none of these candidates have really put in any effort to retail campaigning, they really haven't. they haven't had the same kind of events you would see in previous years, running ad wars mostly through debates. if you start dumping tons of money into negative advertising at this point, three weeks, four weeks out, isn't it just white no noise? it may be too late and bombard each other with negative ads when they should have put in the time on the ground. >> i definitely think there's an element of air war and that made this cycle different but newt

gingrich spent more time on the ground in iowa than perry or romney, than herman cain. he has put time down there. if you look at his staff, his former staffers didn't think he was serious about running. that tells you a lot. but i don't think it's not that he didn't imagine in his mind he could be president, i just think he didn't have the discipline. >> after the staff departures and the trip to the greegs isles that he seriously thought he was a contender and be where he is now? >> yeah. >> that is more testament to his ego, is it not? >> he talked about a wife like nancy reagan. always preparing to be president and get the wife he needed to reflect the nancy ragen misteek or aura. he talked about this transformative stuff. he does believe he is the guy to fix america in the 21st century. i think there is that gigantic

egoist belief he could be the next president. >> he will be meeting with another out sized ego, donald trump i believe on monday. >> what the whole thing with donald trump about? by the way you seem surprised that presidential candidates are digs delusional? >> i think ego is one thing delusion -- >> you have to imagine yourself doing this job and you can do it better than anyone else. 300 million people in this country. rick perry believed it was going to be easy. why they still go to donald trump? who does he bring? is it the money or endorsement? does he speak for the birthers? that i really don't understand. staten island i can understand more than donald trump. >> it is about the birthers. >> we'll talk more about donald trump later in the hour. after the break up next, is it time for a third party candidate? ♪

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♪ we're bringing huntsman back the rest of them is one big circus act ♪ ♪ we're right behind the guy that's right on track ♪ ♪ you know we're going to bring jon huntsman back ♪ >> justin timberlake we hardly new you. that was the huntsman daughters in their investigation of "we're bringing sexy back." is he coming back as an independent? >> no. short answer. as an independent candidate to run in the general election? >> yes. >> i would very interested to

hear the panel's thoughts on ç that. >> as would i. >> i think the chances are slim and none. that's a terrible disservice to justin timberlake and that song. he's not going to break through in this primary. i don't know what the future holds but not as president of the united states. >> there is serious -- there's a lot of call -- seems to be a lot of interest in a third party candidate, 'lot of republicans dissatisfied with the field and democrats who aren't on board with obama for another four years and jon huntsman, they think could be a viable contender. you apparently do not. it bears mentioning in the last few days he has been asked about it and says he has not shut the door and not run as an independent, he's running as a republican. but the fact of the matter is, if he doesn't do well, maybe he well. >> where's the ground swell of support for jon huntsman?

it's not there. it doesn't exist. >> i think midtown is where they are. the nation is crying out in midtown. >> mike bloomberg, people will cry uniout for him, donald trum god save us, i don't think so. there's not a great desire for him to emerge in the general election. >> what about a third party candidate in general? >> he's missing the one thing common to all sides of this contest even as we're seeing the general election, lack of anger. he's conservative policiwise but totally moderate in tone. what united the tea party with occupy wall street, they are all pitted off. >> let's take jon huntsman out of the equation, if we talk about a third party candiditd, don't you think a third party -- wouldn't that candidate necessarily be more of a moderate and not necessarily an anger channeler because there seem to be so many to choose from. >> there's no excitement there. >> you have to tap into people's

dissatisfaction and this idea that we're going the wrong direction as a country. we have this great wealth disparty and programs don't work anymore and people aren't getting a fair shake. you can't be a sort of moderate fairly well spoken mandarin speaking former ambassador from china, all great things, not the kind of person says that guy understands where i'm coming from and other two on the republican don't. he don't grab the person that way. >> in a field with romney and obama, you're going to need -- there's a vacancy for another moderated placid demeanor centrist kind of candidate, where would that be? it's a crowded feel. i think the huntsman daughters revealed a profound truth about the whole campaign, it's an exercise in post modern irony. >> you mean their campaign -- >> their track is clearly, must be trying to be funny. the whole huntsman thing is an idea trying to make a mockery of

this whole process. it cannot be real. >> it's not midtown. jon huntsman is the williamsburg candidate. >> without the costume, yeah. >> i think the real issue here though, we're talking about this ee lek torely without talking about what's happening in the country. you have the tea party movement pushing against the incumbent republicans, right and you have the occupy movement pushing against the entire system. if someone organically came up from somewhere in there with somehow manufacturing some credibility about theç entire system being broken, that's the kind of argument that would be appeal. i don't think jon huntsman who said i'm a republican, i can't win, i'm a loser in this narrative, now i'm going to do something elelse? >> let's talk about people like buddy romer, trying really hard but now it's a moderate group calls americans elect, raised $22 million. he may be the candidate of their party. does that hold any water? >> the interesting thing, obama

campaign, they are seriously worried about americans -- it's credible and they have money behind them. the question for them is given the backers are wall street money, what kind of candidate can actually gal vannize opinion to be anything more than a spoiler in the 2, 3 point range and that would be someone criticizing the system, anti-wall street, would the americans elect give americans that choice of ab anti-wall street candidate given where the money has come from. in the case of europe exploding, another recession or significant down turn in this economy again, it's going to be a strong anti-establish -- anti-privileged message that really breaks through. then you're talking about a third party that can get 10 or 15 or 20%. >> that's the calculation too. it's not just whether the third party candidate wins but what he or she would do to the race in terms of the numbers. we will talk about all of this

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call unitedhealthcare to learn about medicare plans that may be right for you. with some plans, you can enroll right over the phone. don't wait. call now. ♪ sarah palin supporters aren't taking no for an answer two months after palin decided not to run. the group conservatives for palin released this tv ad in iowa. >> the challenge is not simply to replace obama in 2012, the real challenge is who and what we will replace him with. meanwhile, the donald trump says he's not really a campaign quote if the right person doesn't get nominated. ack talking again about this whole third party thing and i didn't think i would be mentioning the name sarah palin again in the context of the 2012 race but here i go again.

>> you can never escape sarah palin. >> we talked about a moderate not holding water. could a conservative get in if the right person doesn't get nominated and take it away. >> no, again. >> yes. >> no. yes. >> who? >> if you have mitt romney as the party's nominee, that's what the wise people in washington say is going to happen. you have 70% of republicans not wanting him and maybe they'll be structure and splintered. that 70% is not going to be happy with the choice. they'll look for someone or in sarah palin's phrase, something else. i don't know the what we replace him with, isn't it human being? >> don't they want to win more than anything else. >> no the polls show, 70% -- same 70% -- >> won't they fall in love? >> the polls show what do you want, someone who agrees with you or someone who can win. 90% say idealogical akin. they think they can win because

the they think the president is a loser and weakling and it will be a triumphant march. i don't think the idealogical card get down played, it gets more and more intense. >> we teased this out but the power of a third party candidate to screw things up, nader in 2000, ross perot, i think it is going to be a close race. given the fact that the field already is so unsettled and the way there's going to be proportional allocation in the beginning of çyear. >> if you are a conservative and beat barack obama, which is the main motivating thing right now, driving the party, why would you ever run as a third party candidate, it guarantees you're splitting it up and handing it to obama. >> i guess you're so dissatisfied by mitt romney -- >> is he that much worse than barack obama?

>> the can ballization though -- it could have been a dnc ad talking min stant replay. we have the sound from his interview on fox the other night. >> you're wrong, brett. >> at times you thought it would be a model for the nation. >> is the massachusetts approach, is that a good model for the nation? >> i think so. >> but those who follow the path that we pursued, will find it's the best path and end up with a nation that's taken a mandate approach. >> that's coming on the heels of other ads that attack mitt romney. to one agree this is expected but if this is their guy, it is beginning relatively early in the cycle without intervention from the left. >> democrats already sending that huntsman ad around, it looks like the ad they put money behind earlier in the week. >> i give this a whatever, this

is not something i often do. i give it a whatever. >> you're allowed to do that. >> thank you. if this is the canny ballization of mitt romney, it's not a fulfilling meal. we have relatively low tier candidates, and huntsman pushing this onç the internet. this is hitting people like us who follow politics but already have a lot of opinions about politics or follow politics for a living. and i think the real test as you go towards january 3rd, do the more serious candidates who have some kind of constituency, do they start laying gloves on mitt? i haven't seen newt do it in a serious way. >> he's done it in a radio interview. this is low hanging fruit. if the huntsman campaign can do it with what looks like a vhs placer, anyone condition.

>> if you watch the interview with brett, he was visibly agitated by the end. approached them and said that interview was too aggressive. >> what does it look like when he's visibly agitated? >> you can see steam from his ears. getting into the holiday spirit, president obama has challenged congress to stop being a grinch. we'll talk about that next on "now." ♪ it's easy to see what subaru owners care about. that's why we created the share the love event. get a great deal on a new subaru and $250 goes to your choice of 5 charities. with your help, we can reach $20 million dollars by the end of this, our fourth year.

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yesterday and same language in front of a new hampshire high school crowd a week earlier. i was struck by the tone of the president's remarks yesterday. he's obviously on the campaign trail but it sounded like if not felt like he's kind of going for the jugyular in a way he hasn't >> makes perfect sense, he has won this debate. republicans are not going to allow to expire arp christmas time, they are trying to figure out a way to support it and get something they want. he's relishing in the fact he has won the payroll tax. and they are trying to figure a way to get out of washington and pass the payroll tax increase and get government spending here and there, reduction in federal workerç pay, anything to take the base and say we didn't totally cave on what the democrats want. this round goes to obama. >> i think there's something bigger going on. if you don't consume politics all the time, you've only see the president come on tv once to talk about domestic

issues/economy in this entire tenure and that was at the republican's threat to shut everything down and have a default, right? everyone remembers that. you can go if you thought outside of the box and give a national address to people and say the republicans or this congress hasn't acted yet and they are going to shut down these benefits that will hit you right now, hit millions of people over the holidays and that would mean a lot more. people don't care about the deficit. they care about how they are making ends meet week by week. and you need these benefits for people who are under employed or unemployed and obviously when you get that extra money on the payroll, it feels like money in your pocket. >> let's be clear by the way. a lot of liberals say this president hasn't got the guts to do things and plays small ball. let's step back and look at where he's positioned himself and republicans on taxes. the old play book was republicans don't want to raise

taxes. he's now put them in that position, saying republicans are raising taxes, so that's one big win. but the second big win he's going for here, we don't know if he's going to win or not. the game plan is to go into the next election as a democrat, i'm going to raise taxes and i'm going to win. i have popular support for raising taxes. republicans don't know how to play -- >> which taxes? bush taxes. >> those aren't raises -- >> but taxes will go up. we talked about this yesterday,

the message from chuck schumer saying the belt tightening of 2010 is over. you have the wind at your back based on the argument that people want to address income equality. >> i don't think he's going to say ronald reagan won't say he's going to raise your taxes, we're both going to do it, i'm going to tell you about it. he's going to talk about shared sacrifices and other words to talk about it and to reduce the deficit and pay for social programs by letting bush tax cuts expire and raising taxes on the wealthy. i think it would be dangerous for him to do that. >> you've been going around the country, casey, are people talking about taxes or jobs? >> they are mostly talking about jobs, more than anything. >> boom. i win, richard. always. >> right? isn't that what voters are talking about? oh, my god the bush tax cut, i don't think this is on their minds. >> i think they understand if they have less money in the paycheck come january. >> payroll versus -- payroll yes

and upper income bush no. >> that's where you're seeing it's been so hard to nail down the republican contenders on where they are because they don't want to hand barack obama this victory at this point in time as they are kicking off voting in the early states. >> and it bearsç mentioning th the speaker boehner's press person watching the show yesterday, will give brendan a shoutout he clarified going along with the payroll tax cut was not something we were forced into, at the identified it as something twe would be able to do. it's helpful to make democrats make statements we've always made. who is winning the message war? >> i think it's great the speaker's office is giving you information and you're reporting it. it's so washington to say this is something we talked about being for for 75 days. in a normal job if someone says, did you take out the trash and for 75 days i've said i'm for taking out the trash.

does it get you far? if both parties agree, let's resolve it. there are people with uncertainty and would like to know the extra 1,000 bucks will be in the paycheck. >> you say the president has won this one, they have the internal riffs, how will they pay for it? >> they'll find a way to take money out of federal payroll, they'll find some selling -- >> the president would agree to federal workers losing money on this? >> i think a very small sort of not noticeable cut. i don't think they are going to get to a point where they'll vote up on it and not pay for it at all. >> nobody cares about taxes and nobody cares about cutting spending in the deficit, but the fact is a big slice of the republican base does care a lot and cares powerfully about not adding to the deficit. they have to do something to make the revenue neutral. i think they'll continue to try to do that. if they have to completely punt and pass unemploymentç benefit increase or extension and

payroll taxes plus an expansion of payroll taxes without cutting any spending and having it add to the deficit, that's a huge loss. >> the republicans have started making the argument that the payroll tax cut hurts the social security fund. >> which is untrue. it gets reimbursed. >> when you say the republican base cares a great deal about the deficit, i don't think that's a factual statement. they have shown they care for it a great deal when president obama was in charge of it and didn't care about the iraq war and other expensive things. we have to be careful about the politics here. it's fine to be partisan, that's what parties are. but let's not pretend there's a longstanding consistent deficit concern here there isn't. there just isn't. >> they do care about the politics of it and optics of it. it is damaging to republican candidates and republican office holders if they are seen to do something for president obama ha adds to the deficit. i'm not saying they are genuine

concern or track record of caring about the deficit. >> they didn't care about the optics on the debt ceiling debate. why would they care now? >> they just lost on the optics. >> they think it was a fwrgreat >> and think the republicans think they won on that. and that's why the super committee came to a grinding halt and the president was thousands of miles away having nothing to do with it. >> they have a large shadow for doing nothing. >> we'll talk about this and other things, including michelle bachmann, megan mccain will talk about her interview yesterday with the congresswoman and that will be next on "now." [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil

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michele bachmann is the only woman running for president and megan mccain sat down to get up

close and personal. michele bachmann is not doing great in the polls. did you talk to her about the realities of her campaign? >> i did. i asked her, you could lose and even in my father's campaign at the last moment there's still an inkling you could lose. she doesn't think she's going to lose. i admire that optimism. there's still a good chance she couldru)z in iowa. >> you're drinking the bachmann juice. >> i did a little. >> i didn't even entertain the idea of not being victorious, not because of me personally but what i'm thinking about right now is unemployment and the difficulties that the nation is facing. and i sit on the intelligence committee, we deal with national security and the classified secrets of the nation. i deal with these very real threats every day. they are real. they are very real. >> is this someone who's running for a vp nod? there's some rumors out this morning that she could be on a short list.

is that a possibility? >> i'm still trying to imagine -- >> i would say no. >> keeping us safe by closing down the american embassy in tehran. the intelligence committee is important, there's scary stuff in there. is this a foreign policy election in iowa especially? i'm not sure what she thinks she's connecting with voters on. >> can i tell you something. i famously said a statement earlier where i said michele bachmann was the poor man's sarah palin. i am completely wrong. this is the thinking man's sarah palin. i connected with her. i didn't know what to expect and i'm a person who has been around politicians my entire life. i connected to this woman. and i thought, this is what she should be doing, talking about being a mother and on foreign policy things, i don't understand why this woman i met yesterday hasn't been coming across. i don't think her campaign has done her a service. i loved her. >> what's interesting is

bachmann, her religion and faith are important to her. if we look at the gop field, indiscretions andç sort of sexl liaisons have been in the news. >> i did bring it up and i said for me as a republican woman character is a big part of how i vote for someone and is newt gingrich's indiscretions and the possibility of herman cain having a 13-year affair, does this matter to you? she answered politically and referenced her founding fathers. >> let's listen to that. >> when they talked about the qualifications of the president of the united states, they didn't talk about wealth or property ownership or talk about education. what they talked about was character. that's the fundamental importance of the executive -- chief executive. isn't interesting that that's what they foresaw that character would count. and i agree. >> let's talk about the character of the founding

fathers, they did not have spotless personal records. >> isn't that an indictment -- an indictment for the rest of the field, is it not, that character matters? >> it should matter. it should definitely matter. >> ari is looking at me with a blank face. >> you don't care? >> that's my official position, actually on a cancer stricken wife -- no, this is somebody that concerns some people, me personally, i've never seen it as a squall fiction for public office. >> character? >> by character we mean their sex life, who they have sex with or whether they have sex with someone of the same gender or not, that's me. >> as a republican i do think as a value that republicans value more. i do care if you have cheated on your spouse and do care what kind of character you have. i love mitt romney has been married for 40 years and michele bachmann met her husband inç college. i love they have this family. >> what does that do with newt gingrich -- how can newt

gingrich hold any water then? >> the other thing that comes through in that, she's sort of invoking the founding fathers to put a hit on these guys. politically do you think that was strong enough in your mind sitting across from her, or does she need to say, by the way, jefferson would not be down with newt? >> i thought it was a very sort of graceful way to say i don't agree with cheating. i don't know, i loved it. >> you talk a little bit about the personal side of my shell bachmann. when we think of my shell bachmann, she doesn't seem to connect, in person it sounds like she is different or you got something out of this that we haven't seen. >> i went in skeptically and i adored her. i thought she was warm and friendly, maybe because i'm a woman and she was connecting with me as a republican woman. she was very candidate about the

difficulties of being on the trail. >> make the comparison with sarah palin because you got to meet sarah palin on a few occasions. what does she have that sarah palin didn't? >> i think she's -- this is going to get me in trouble but i think she's more smarter, i think she's more on foreign policy, i think all of the things she's done an debates very impressed. she's older and moer established and been a member of congress for a very long time. >> own the vice presidential piece, we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. she is very experienced and knowledgeable. she comes across as the thinking person's sarah palin. i think that's true. if you accept the idea that mitt romney will have a problem on the right with the tea party and social conservatives, sheç fil that bill and would bring them along. that's a piece that checks a political box. i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. >> to the palin thing, i think there is a tenderness with bachmann, this is from the outside. we have one more piece of sound

we want to talk about, especially regarding high school and prom. >> we both had similar high school experiences, which i loved. >> let's listen to that. >> i was just shocked at the time when i was a junior, i was in charge of prom. i threw it. i put it on and organized it and i loved doing that aspect. so it didn't bother me that i wasn't invited. but then in my senior year, i thought i would get invited and i didn't. and i was working i was in a million activities and so yes, that's one of my moments in life that was a sore spot. >> lifetime of therapy. >> i wasn't invited to my senior prom earlier. i was like girls kill as lateener life and not in high school. >> a little bit with the eyes bulging and you don't see it there. her intelligence and warmth comes through. that's a remarkable interview. >> does that mean she didn't go to prom? >> she didn't and neither did i,

i loved that, of course. >> this is real talk. >> i know. >> and i just can't emphasize how much i liked her. she was so warm and so friendly. and i really hope her campaign shows the woman that i met to the rest of the country between now and january. >> you're saying all of these nice things but not coming through. why aren't they coming through better? >> i honestly think there are two things, i think that america still has a difficult time seeing a republican woman. i think you haveç to over compensate and be, if you're too strong you're sarah palin and in this age of sexism where a female politician you can't be both things. >> republicans or democrat, the role a woman plays on the national stage, vying for the highest office in the land is very complicated and a lot of things are at play. thank you, megan. we'll have more of this interview on the internet, you can find it on our blog at now with alex .msnbc.com.

we'll be back with what now. republicans and democrats work together to pass medical marijuana usage, can they pass the peace pipe? ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. take up to an extra 15 percent off storewide now through tuesday.

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we're back with what now. a medical marijuana movement that is being spearheaded by governors lincoln chaffy and chris greg war on wednesday and calling on the dea to declassify marijuana as a schedule 2 drug allowing it to be dispensed for medicinal use. are we seeing the tide turn on this drug? >> i think so. it would seem to me -- not a

hard corps right wing republican, we're not seeing really anti-drug war republicans come out and say let's end the drug war. i get the sense nationally that people are not as freaked out about pot anymore as a drug. i don't see that there's a big backlash from the right saying that this is an outrage. maybe it's out there and there are conservatives who are terrified -- >> it is weird, this cultural implications of smoking marijuana and we're talking about a time when i think socially and cultural the gop is putting the clamp down on a lot of other things. it's interesting that this is one where there is seemingly bipartisan accord. let's talk about pq rise in school lunches which is historically high if not record high numbers of american school children are getting subsidized school lunches and due in large part to economic hardship that

their families are feeling. as we have this great debate about social safety nets programs, one would think a 25% increase in some states would be cause for furthering the argument that these programs need to stay in place. >> i would say this is about government spending. we've got a spike up to 21 million students now receiving the subsidized lunches. what does that mean? that means 21 million kids in this rich country that we have needs some help to get enough food to get through the day. people don't want to be on subsidized lunches and if you're in a family where you have enough money, you don't usually push your kid to save a couple of bucks a day. we're talking about another indicator of the kind of poverty that exists that we're not allowed to call poverty. you need state budgets to be in good order to meet this problem. >> two things, when people what's the purpose of government, they should think about this? when they talk about what spending cuts looks like, talking about government spending as government waste this is what we're talking

about. by the way, democrats and republicans completely failed to put enough money into the school lunch program and last reauthorization, they will not put anything more than a few pennies, look at the foods these poor kids have to eat. it's the worst waste products we can pull out of our farming system. we're failing these children even giving them free meals. >> and certainly the human side of the debt cutting is important to remember. thank you again for comingç on the panel. today's panel, i hope to see you back here soon. i'll see you tomorrow at noon eastern. you can follow us at twitter at now with alex. hi, alex, thanks so much. mitt romney makes a play for iowa as newt gingrich claims the lead. we'll cover it all in our daily fix. we've got chuck todd and rick santorum joining us live.

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don't wait. call now. right now, 33 days to go to the iowa caucuses, mitt romney shows his hand. romney buys tv time in the hawk eye state as the rivalry with newt gingrich heats up. >> whereas i would have thought originally it was going to be mitt and not mitt. i think it may be newt and not newt. herm an cain will decide on whether to stick it out after seeing his wife this weekend. does slow and steady win the race? rick santorum is with us today, been to all 99 counties. payroll tax poker, we'll get reaction from republican senator bob corker. on world aids day, president