have you ever heard of anyone buttering their bread before they >> not one person in this control room. about 15 people have never even heard of it. let's go ahead and butter after before you start a small kitchen fire. "morning joe" live from d.c. starts right now. . i don't have to go and point out the inconsistencies of people p wanting to be the nominee, they're not going to be the nominee. >> you're going to be the nominee? >> i'm going to be the nominee. it's hard to look at the recent polls and think the odds are very high i'm going to be the nominee. by the way, i don't want to object if people want to attack me, it's their right. all i'm suggesting is that it's not going to be very effective. and the guys who attacked each other in the debates up until now, every single one of them has lost ground by attacking. they should do what they and their consultants want to do. i will focus on being substantive and focus on barack

obama. >> and welcome back. to another day of madness in the republican party. it's friday, december 2nd, welcome to "morning joe" in washington, d.c. today. try and get our arms around this. with us onset, "time" magazine political analyst mark haleprin, we also have former chairman of the republican national committee who is here to explain everything that's happening in his party, michael steele. also, the political writer for the "huffington post," sam stein, and we've got the great willie geist in new york. boy, mark haleprin, he's sounding kind of confident. says he's going to win. you look at the recent polls, it's his. >> people in this city, there's an irony. he's former speaker of the house, one of the most powerful jobs in this city. but in this city, people still don't take newt gingrich seriously. around this table we do. we were talking before, we think he can be the nominee. but he is -- he has had a

30-year relationship with the grass roots of the party and he is reaping the benefits of that now. mitt romney is a stranger to most people in the republican party and in the current state we're in, that's a big advantage. they like newt -- we look at these daily sound bites and think, oh, that can't sustain, but people like that side of him. he comes out to eye of the tiger and they like his eye of the tiger. >> newt is not a conservative. i can show you reams and reams of paper of speeches he's given. but what we found in 2012 in this cycle is -- michael steele, we'll go to you, the republican party, they're not necessarily concerned with the fact that newt gingrich is not a conservative. they want somebody who is a fighter. we saw with donald trump who went to the top of the polls. why? because donald trump's a conservative? no, he sounded very liberal. they want a fighter and they don't care that newt gingrich can attack paul ryan and be

liberal one day, call himself a rockefeller republican the next day. support socialistic programs the next day. >> they want a puncher. someone who is going to go there and bloody up the field a little bit. and that means taking it to the administration, taking it to barack obama. i think you hit it on the head. the reality is out there beyond the den of the noise of this town. people have listened to newt, they've baked into their decisions about this race, everything they know and love or hate about newt. >> and it's a branding issue. we've had a lot of people that have risen and fallen very quickly. newt gingrich's brand in the republican party is a 25-year-old, 30-year-old brand. sam stein, you are a creature of the internet. you go on any internet site over the past decade, and you've seen newt's face in banner ads across the top.

he is a known commodity. mitt romney is not. herman cain is not. even michele bachmann who is new to the game is not. it's kind of like john mccain in 2008. for all of his flaws to the conservative movement, got -- and i'm talking like guys like my dad knew who john mccain was. >> my first cpac when i went in there, obama was speaking and he got good applause. but when newt came, he entered from the back with his hands held high like this and people were going crazy. and one more point -- i think we tend to get hooked on the idea of electability. that republicans want an electable candidate. voters tend to see electability on the candidate they like the best. by that i mean if you look at newt, you say why couldn't he beat obama? he's persuaded me to his cause, he can persuade others to their

cause. i think we overestimate. >> this has been a perfect storm in a negative sense for mitt romney. mitt i'm sure was counting on a bunch of conservatives fighting each other and dividing it out. but you look at what's happened recently. you call it the ten days from heck. i would call it the ten days from hell if i were the romney camp. you have cain imploding, perry imploding, bachmann not as strong as she was. all the conservatives imploding. suddenly it is mitt versus the anti-mitt. and there are more anti-mitts than mitts in the party. >> and in some states by a substantial number. >> florida, newt zooming way ahead. >> newt gingrich, people have been focused on newt inc. lately, the stuff he built in this town after he left congress to make a lot of money. newt inc. before that, go pac and his other organizations,

he's done this for a long time. he knows how to build coalitions around his personality and ideas. as a chairman said, people may not care about some of these positions. and remember, he has some weird liberal stuff that he said and done, he's running against a guy who passed an individual mandate. >> well, well, even though newt gingrich in 2003 -- from 1993 to 2008 was a champion of individual mandate. that is the great irony of newt gingrich. >> that's -- >> when he wanted a federal one. >> newt wanted a federal individual mandate. like i said before, he bragged about being a rockefeller republican, he trashed paul ryan, and again, i can -- i can talk for the next 30 minutes about all of the moderate to liberal positions newt took while he was speaker of the house and how he trashed conservatives like myself to try to roll over us. it really doesn't matter. i want -- >> i was going to say, in terms of romney.

>> one thing quickly, i need to follow up on what you said. 1993, i went to a go pac campaign school. i said i was going to be a campaign manager, i didn't tell him i was going to run because i was young and knew nobody would let me in. but i got in there, joe gaylord and his team taught me and helped me go back to my district. and the last thing he said is don't hire a campaign manager. you'd eat them alive, it'd be ugly, run your own campaign. but that was in 1993. and again, newt's been doing this for a long time. >> it has been ten days from heck. and he's made mistakes, campaign made mistakes, this could have a happy ending for him. if he beat a weak field and the perception was he was running against nobody, he's got to fight for it now, but if he fights newt gingrich, a titan, not herman cain, a businessman, not michele bachmann. if he fights and beats newt, he

could emerge -- >> newt's out there saying and i doubt he actually, you know, sticks to his word on this, he's saying he's not going to go after romney, not going to dredge up all that stuff. i was fascinated, the wisdom of the crowds now has romney at less than 50% odds. >> i would still take the bet with romney, but it is possible. you know, i have said all along rick perry was not going to win. said it from the beginning, sarah palin would not be president. would not win the nomination. michele bachmann, rick perry, and i've got to say right now i'm not saying that about newt gingrich after the past two days. >> i think one of the things that underscores your point about '93, '94 versus 2011 2012 is a very different republican party. and newt more than anybody else in the field has moved with that party over that time span and kept connected to them through a lot of -- >> i don't agree with that at all. wait a second.

listen, hold on a second. i -- i disagree completely. newt -- >> -- in new york 23, when i came in -- >> michael, hold on, i've got to stop you right here because you're wasting our time because what you're saying is patently untrue. in 2007 he gets paid a lot of money by freddie mac -- >> that has nothing to do with being an elected official in moving with the party. >> he's not moving in a coherent position. in 2007 he called himself a hamiltonian republican because he wanted to get money. and even in 2011, he says on "meet the press" this summer as the party gets more conservative that paul ryan is a radical social engineer. unlike mitt romney, and i'll let you respond to this and then i want to go to fascinating polls and willie geist and tell him how you butter your bread. unlike mitt romney, and craig shirley e-mailed me yesterday and said mitt romney actually

can say i have moved like ronald reagan. because ronald reagan made the move from left to right. and it was a consistent arc from left to right. there was the narrative had an arc, it made sense, mitt romney could say the same thing and went from liberal republican to moderate republican to conservative republican. newt gingrich changes by the day. >> okay. then, joe, you tell me how mitt romney is sitting on the sidelines with his thumb in his mouth trying to figure out what the heck's happened. >> i'm going back to your point. >> if he's doing that move, this is my only point. look, guys, you as professionals, all i know is grass roots. >> stop. i'm just correcting you. when you say that -- >> you're not -- >> you're correcting what people are saying to me. because that's what they're saying they have felt that he has been with them -- he's kept his finger on the pulse of what's going on out there. that's all i'm saying. >> you're right because

republicans love fannie and freddie. >> my point is this you're taking the political and mixing it with the business. what -- >> he called paul ryan a radical this summer. >> okay. joe. >> this summer. >> michael, i don't know if what you're trying to prove here, but you know it's not true. >> i'm not -- >> he's not. >> he's angry. >> i'm saying he's reflecting -- >> the voters are angry. >> to the point you were making, the fighter, that's all i'm saying, joe, i'm not trying to put a bow on it. i'm trying to help understand. >> you don't have to help me understand anything. >> okay. >> i understand it very well. in fact, we said it ten minutes ago that he is an angry man and this electorate is angry. but please don't try to tell me it's ideologically consistent. >> i'm not saying he's

ideologically consistent. >> and willie geist, we want to tell you where the bread is buttered. >> don't say that. >> you say you have never heard of anybody that butters bread before you put it in the oven? >> that's crazy. >> that's all we've ever done in the scarborough household, and it's not just in the deep south, it's in connecticut, as well. >> it melts into the bread. >> this is great. >> why put liquid into the toaster. that doesn't make sense. you've got a hot platform when it comes out of the toaster. >> what are you talking about? i am so confused. so willie, i want you to see the next line of polls to talk about this electorate that michael steele was gracious enough to try to educate me on. i really do appreciate it. look at this, in october, because newt said, you look at the polls now, i'm going to win this thing. >> yep. >> in october, an nbc "wall street journal" poll show cain leading with 27%, a lot of

people saying cain could be the nominee. in august, an nbc "wall street journal" poll showed perry leading at 38%. that lot of people saying the same thing about perry they're saying about gingrich right now. and then let's go back to bachmann. in july, a public policy poll had michele bachmann leading the field with 21%. of course you go back to spring, a cnn poll showed donald trump and mike huckabee leading in second. and, of course, in june, czsara palin was leading with 20% of the vote. willie geist, it's topsy-turvy. does newt have more staying power than all of those other people that some were saying could win the nomination? >> well, for one thing, we're out of people to fill that role. i think we've gone full circle. rick perry is relegated to

making fun of himself on late night shows, which he does about once a week, he did again last night. we'll show that. i think newt gingrich because of the time, we have 31 days left until iowa. he may have enough staying power if they decide, okay, he's the anti-romney, the non-romney. he's got enough time to get to iowa where he can win votes. what i hear from republicans where i talk to. you don't find them where i live so i've got to send e-mails and phone calls, a little farther south. they like the idea and they understand the problems with newt. they like the idea of him standing on a stage with barack obama and debating barack obama. they feel like he can out professor the professor. one thing i heard from one republican was watching mitt romney in that interview with bret baier when he got testy when he was asked a reasonable question, he looked too fragile, and when he went back in and complained about the line of questioning.

i'm not sure that's the guy they want out there. there are some doubts now and i think that's part of why you see newt rising up with him. >> and you really do hear a lot of republicans saying they want to see newt gingrich debate barack obama, mark haleprin. >> the party is looking for someone to take it to the president. the party is looking for somebody who represents the mood of the party. and gingrich all changes and positions notwithstanding does that better than mitt romney. if romney had five months to dismantle someone, opposition research, in the debates, i think they could probably dismantle him, but they have a month. >> dismantle newt? >> they have at month. >> the thing is, give him enough time, and i'm not saying this being facetious, i'm not being facetious. i have been alongside of him during stressful times.

nobody has to dismantle newt gingrich, sam stein. i'm dead serious. give him time. >> it's already happened this cycle. that's the thing. >> newt gingrich will take himself out. >> there's a few things really fascinating about this. it's already happened in this cycle where he was basically written off for dead and he still is in debt and recently opened his first office in iowa and yet he's where he is. but i agree with mark 100%, i think the republican party wants someone to take it to president obama. and i think the whole purpose of that ad in my estimation was to show republican voters that romney was willing to play dirty. and i thought this is probably something that would end up working out for him in that very defined sense. but clearly people are not trusting mitt romney. his numbers in those polls never rise above 25%. we think that's a base, and we have to wonder if that's the ceiling. >> michael steele, let me end this segment, this wonderful segment with you. and i'm wondering if you can --

i'm talking about stocks. i need to make money. >> i'm just trying to bring it from the street. >> bring it from the street. you're talking about the republican party, okay. >> you're talking about your starbucks conversations. >> right. i'm just saying. >> that's where the party lives. >> look, all i'm saying is that i think this is an opportunistic moment for newt, obviously. the party of today is not the party of the last 15 years. it has changed. and my only point is if anyone has been out there articulating some of that change and some of that transition has been newt which is why he's connected and stayed connected so closely with the base. >> why don't we all agree on one thing, he represents the anger of the modern republican party. >> absolutely. >> and you know as well as anybody how an obscure candidate can go and take over that mantle for the establishment. >> all right. very good. when we come back --

>> you'll have a friend in the white house. >> we've got thomas friedman onset. i'm sorry, i said he could win. i would put my money on mitt romney winning the republican nomination. but i will say, i think newt gingrich poses the greatest risk of anybody yet to mitt romney. we also have former national security adviser dr. brzezinski, also sherrod brown. and a look at mitt romney's profile in sunday's "parade" magazine. here's a look at the weekend forecast with meteorologist todd santos. what's it looking like? it was a windy set-up across a few areas in the southwest. i wanted to start off with that. not so bad at least this morning, again, high-wind warnings and that brighter color there, northeast 25 to 35 with gusts to 60, down in l.a. proper, though, seeing the gusts closer to around 35 miles per hour. later on saturday, may see soot chance for one of these events

to set up. there's a look at the advisories extending up the sierra, gusts upward of 60 plus miles per hour. back here in the northeast and extending to d.c., cool temperatures in place. 37 in buffalo, back toward detroit, saw at least a few snow flakes, and again, your weekend forecast, calling this considering it's friday, the week's almost over, many of us it should be very quiet. looks like quite a bit more than what's falling here. getting in toward potentially buffalo. you saw the temperatures kind of borderline for many of us today. we're talking sunshine across the east coast. great news for many of us. we'll be back with more "morning joe." all energy development comes with some risk, but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions...

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the rule is you stop grilling romney after he gives you the laugh. that's his safe word.

he uses it all the time. ha ha ha. available on dvd. >> hey, let's take a look at the morning papers. as we look first at a beautiful view of new york from the top of the rock. let's start with the "wall street journal." a lesson for coca-cola, don't mess with that classic. how many times do they have to learn this lesson? the white can they rolled out for the holidays, they are ditching it after too many people confused it with diet coke. and others swore it tasted different in white cans. the company did have good intentions, the white can was part of a charitable effort to benefit wildlife. let's go to our parade of papers. "dallas morning news" says it

was ten years ago today the houston energy company enron collapsed into bankruptcy amid corporate fraud. it was only the beginning of a decade when so much in the economy was not as it seemed. >> and "the miami herald" says after 53 years of coaching football howard shelenberger plans to retire after the final game of the season this saturday. he led university of miami to the first national championship in 1983. he was also the offensive coordinator under bear bryant helping alabama win three national championships in 1961, '64, '65, also the offensive coordinator for the miami dolphins' perfect 1972 season. and willie, he was also up at kentucky. >> that's an incredible -- >> i don't know if you were -- and i'm not saying this being funny, i mean, how young were you in 1983? do you remember -- do you remember what the cains did back

in '83? >> yeah, he made the u the u. people of a certain age assume miami is always this football power, they were not at all. private school in south florida, he made the u what it is today or what it was in the '80s and '90s, anyway. >> before howard scnellenberger, they would give away tickets at burger king. a lot of things changed by the end of that decade, of course, they were easily the most dominant team in football. and that all started with him. >> you can plug espn's 30 for 30 on the u. he's all over that one. >> this weekend's "parade" features an interview with mitt romney on his fame and personal wealth. mike allen is in new york, joe, while you're down in d.c. you guys probably crossed each other. >> can i do a long distance

happy friday? >> there it is. there it is. >> happy friday. >> before we get to the "parade" profile on romney, i've got to plug something you won't do yourself. "the right fights back" the "politico" book with jon meacham and random house i'm told is going to be the largest selling ebook in the world. >> people are fascinated by the campaign. they were waiting up for santa on itunes when it was coming out add midnight. it's been very exciting. people love the idea of finding out who these candidates really are and what's happening behind the scenes. >> i say that partly in jest, but it is going to be the number one selling ebook. it's really good. to the parade profile on mitt romney. david gergen talking to mitt romney. what did we learn? >> we'll bring you sunday's paper already, and this timing is working out amazingly for romney. you saw on "politico" yesterday that a part of the gingrich strategy, the romney strategy

for fighting back against gingrich was to emphasize the romney family. so this timing is great for him. it's intended to be a soft interview. we learn little tidbits about mitt that if he wants to really splurge, really be naughty, he'll drink chocolate milk. they ask him on sunday mornings what is your routine? and he says, well, ann, makes the pancake batter and i flip them. he talks about his faith. he talks about a lot of restrictions that mormons have. he says following the ten commandments, he emphasizes sort of broader ten commandments as opposed to the specific mormon teachings. he says he finds those liberating, not restricting. he talks about how he gives 10% of his pretax income. but there's one question that makes you think he still kind of doesn't get it. david gergen says to him -- david plouffe from the white

house says you have no core. what do you think about those critiqu critiques? at first he laughed and said i don't read them. then he says i wrote a book in 2010, all my beliefs are there. no, it's not a campaign document, what do you really think? >> well, he lives on the edge drinking yoohoo, that tells you a lot about him too. how concerned is mitt romney do you suspect about newt gingrich? we were talking about this in our last segment. is newt just the latest greatest? or are they looking at him as a serious contender here? >> it was not part of the game plan. i think sam and mark were making great points about how this is a surprise for them. they're moving quickly and they are emphasizing romney's family, they're pushing this message that gingrich is the flip-flopper, that gingrich is the insider. and something that really is going to help them. and in the end will come to their rescue is that gingrich has very skeletal staff.

these early states take real staff, real organizing. saying there are only 24 gingrich staffers total in the early states. he's got six in iowa, eight in new hampshire, ten in south carolina if that adds up to 24, i think it does. and they say they're adding staff, but they admit they're not going to be able to get what they need. they're not going to have county by county chairs. and rick perry found that being the surprise late-entering candidate doesn't work. running for president is a job, you need to have this in place. and surging a little late is also a problem for gingrich. so he's depending on grass roots, depending on excitement in this wiredthat might work, but it would be a first. >> i think a lot of people still assume romney will be the nominee. what is the path if you can lay one out for newt gingrich. what does he do in iowa, and south carolina, and how does new hampshire fit into that? >> well, gingrich could surprise

in iowa. i was skeptical about mitt romney, we see her pouring more resources in there, realizing he has a fight on his hands and that he can't lay back and concede an early state. it's not simply a mathematical game that even though he's going to win the long run game, "politico" checked around and found out that the romney people are already looking at ballot issues in texas, vermont, missouri. they're building for the very long run. but that -- you remember the craziness around iowa and new hampshire and life is about momentum. sports is, certainly politics is. that's why he's putting more -- so if gingrich were to win, he'd have to surprise in iowa -- >> which is second place, something like that? or win iowa? you think he wins? >> yeah, or even win. and romney keeps saying he doesn't need to win iowa. remember in '08 he used to say, well, i got the silver medal. i don't think that's going to work this time around when you're the front runner.

and then i can see gingrich being very strong in south carolina. so those are all in the first month. so if gingrich could really have romney on his heels going into super tuesday. so in the first month, we have iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, florida january 31st. >> and he's adding staff in all of those states. he's playing. mike allen, thanks so much. congratulations again to "right fights back," the ebook blowing up the web. >> happy weekend. >> let's have a yoohoo after the show. coming up, a metaphor for the eagles' terrible season on a single touchdown run and rewards himself with a handful of skittles. highlights next. also, the weekend review, find out which of these stories make the cut. we'll be right back on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] nature valley

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it's a good looking picture of new york city. live from chopper 4, t.j.?

is that chopper 4? friends at wnbc giving us a beautiful look at the city. nfl thursday night football, and the eagles are officially a disaster. as exemplified on this 15-yard touchdown run by lynch. he's bottled up at the 10, surrounded by eagles, but somehow emerges from that pile and runs it in for the touchdown. look how he celebrates on the sideline. we know his secret. the jet fuel is skittles. he eats skittles to fuel up for the game. and he bounces it outside, 40 yards this time for the touchdown, 148 and two scores, the fourth time in the last games. makes the grab, gets two down as he's going out of bounds, 24-7 there. philly came back within ten in the fourth quarter, but vince young, one of his four

interceptions. what is that? looking to swing it outside to mccoy. david hawthorne takes it 77 yards on the interception for the touchdown. that seals it 31-14, seattle. eagles drop to the bottom of the nfc east, they are 4-8 now. this was the "dream team" coming into the season. the players out of reach. andy reid's days could be numbered in philadelphia. to a little bit of baseball. the red sox made it official yesterday introducing bobby valentine as the team's new manager. the 61-year-old replaces terry francona who, of course, presided over boston's epic collapse last season where the team went 7-20 in september and missed the playoffs by one game, bobby v. now taking over at fenway. coming up next, back to washington for the must-read opinion pages. much more with mark haleprin, sam stein, and joe. we'll be right back. i'm good about washing my face.

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just like herman cain, mitt romney has an embarrassing person in his past who he's desperately trying to hide. for herman cain it's a woman named ginger white, for mitt romney, it's mitt romney. mitt romney is his own mistress. and by the way, it makes sense because they say opposites attract. >> welcome back to "morning joe." what a beautiful, beautiful view of the white house on this december 2nd day, got the christmas decorations up. boy, this is -- christmas is the best time of the year. at least for my family. and i think for a lot of

families, it's just such a joyous time. it's got to be, though. and i say this, for any president, it's got to be the worst time. because i just see that -- i see the buzz down there. and if you're a president, you're barack obama, george w. bush, bill clinton, whoever you are, you spend the entire month standing in line, smiling, shaking people's hands for christmas parties. >> you take purell breaks too. >> i don't know how they do it. that's what you do. you stand for three hours at a time, you smile, you shake hands, and i've got to say, the presidents are remarkably great at doing that. making you think you're the only person -- the obamas, we did it one time and very gracious, of course, we did with the clintons, also with the bushes, but, man, can you imagine? >> my feet would get tired standing there. >> got a bad back, operation, i think i would be sitting down dressed in a santa's outfit.

>> you would do a cardboard cutout. >> exactly. and also the line would be considerably shorter for me because a lot of people wouldn't want to be there. especially after this morning. let's go to the "washington post." i know michael steele wouldn't bring his family, they'd all get screamed at. it's all in love. let's go to the "washington post." and this is charles kraudhammer. >> my own view that republicans would've been better served by mitch daniels, paul ryan, and chris christie, unfortunately none is running. so you play the hand you're dealt. this is a weak republican field with two significantly flawed front runners. every conservative has thus to ask himself two questions. who is more likely to prevent that second term, and who if elected is less likely to

unpleasantly surprise? i actually think, michael steele, the answer to those two questions may be different. mitt romney more likely to win, but mitt romney more likely to disappoint conservatives. >> here's where i have a problem, joe. when you read the first part of this, unfortunately none is running, weak hand dealt, now you're telling conservatives make a choice. go out and storm the castle. really? is that how you motivate a base? >> it's -- >> well, look, your leader sucks, but we want you to take the other guy out. >> is he supposed to lie in his column? >> no, he's not supposed to lie. >> he's charles krauthammer, he's going to tell you the truth. it's a weak field. >> i understand all that. but my point is, you have to understand what people when they hear this what the grass roots are saying and thinking. and they are becoming more and more detached from the noise and the rhetoric and the people who think they know it all here in

this town and write the publications and sit on tv and pontificate. >> i hate those people who sit on tv and pontificate. you know what it reminds me of? it reminds me -- thank you for telling me as you said what it's like on the republican street. so speaking of conservatives, fascinating column. erick erickson. seriously, we're going to have to start paying him money because he's become a regular on "morning joe." this is what he wrote yesterday in red state, erick erickson is probably, of course, the conservative movement's most influential blogger, i say probably, he is. this is what erick erickson wrote yesterday about jon huntsman. here's the funny thing about jon huntsman, his record as governor is more conservative than newt gingrich and mitt romney combined. what's so tragic about the huntsman race is that he has the boldest free market economy

economic recovery plan. he's got the most pro-life record of anyone in the race other than rick perry. he's got the best jobs creation record of anyone in the race with a possible exception of rick perry and he has run away from it all to be the guy who doesn't want to offend the women of "the view." willie, here you have again the most respected conservative blogger saying jon huntsman is the most conservative candidate in the race and yet he's sitting scratching his head like a lot of conservatives wondering how huntsman's campaign got off on the wrong foot. and why he never has been able to turn that corner. >> we've been saying that for weeks. from the very minute he had the rollout in front of the statue of liberty. he should've taken the position he was the real conservative in the race. there's no flip-flopping with jon huntsman. he's been consistent. he's been all the things these other candidates say they are. a consistent conservative as it was just laid out by erick

erickson right there whether you talk about guns, pro-life, immigration. he's got all the credentials, and yet he hid them there for a while, perhaps until it was too late according to some -- most polls. >> you know, it is, mark haleprin, it is fascinating. and people have been writing saying why are you such a big supporter of jon huntsman? listen, i have never hidden my political views. i'm an ideological conservative. i did 95% acu rating when i was in the house of representatives over the better part of four terms. i am a conservative. and i like to vote for people who have been consistently conservative. jon huntsman has been consistently conservative. and yet, as far as branding goes, we're talking about the branding of newt gingrich. his branding at least at the beginning of the campaign was horrific. i think he's making great strides in new hampshire right now and he'll end up, i believe, at 20% at least in new hampshire

because people will figure out he's really more conservative over the span of his career than the other candidates. but the branding, how did it go so badly for him over the first month of his campaign? >> well, in the beginning he didn't talk about president obama enough the way the party demands. and i think that really got him off on the wrong foot. he came in with people knowing little about him except he'd been the ambassador for barack obama. he's turned on that a little bit. he's got a populist message now about changing wall street and congress. a candidate like that needs to run as a reformer. he's talking about that now, it'll find an audience in new hampshire. i think he can only succeed if there's better television advertising than there's been so far on his behalf. >> you didn't like the first super pac ads were not effective enough, right? >> didn't look like it would breakthrough as far as i'm concerned. but he needs someone, probably

newt gingrich, to wound romney in iowa and pin romney down there so he has iowa and new hampshire largely to himself. >> so is newt gingrich good for jon huntsman? >> if newt scores a victory in iowa, that's great for huntsman. that says mitt romney's vulnerable, new hampshire voters reassess and say this guy huntsman's been retailing in my state for months, weeks, and i think you're right. 20% is not unreasonable in new hampshire. >> i'd be surprised if he doesn't get 20%. does huntsman gain anything? do you think he does? >> i think there's still room for huntsman to make his move. as i said a couple weeks ago, stop being the ambassador, and be the guy who wants to be president. >> if i would only listen to you, things would be -- but i just sit here pontificating. right? >> always right there. >> you listen to him, you'll have your own show. >> i love it. i love it. very good. coming up next, willie geist is going to make your weekend.

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burning up the internet. do you butter before or after? a lot of people saying you do butter before, but you were saying put it in a toaster, you butter before and put it in the oven. you're not going to put buttered toast in a toaster. >> do i look like julia childs? i don't know what you call those, you put it in an oven. >> in the toaster where you push the button and it goes down for a while and comes back? >> no, no, no the oven. >> horizontal. >> the toaster oven. >> i've got the one with two slices. >> the toaster ovens. >> we were talking about two different things all this time. >> but do this this weekend. go ahead, butter it first, put it in the oven, it comes out, you put the jelly on top, it's gooey, delicious, liquid carb thing, it's awesome. >> people start their days, they say this is the place where the national conversation begins, i

think we're proving that here again this morning. >> it is depressing. >> let's go to the weekend review. top three stories of the week. for all the bankruptcies we've covered in this grim u.s. economy, this one gets your attention. >> at number three, anchor man versus machine. >> we have an announcement going on here in the studio. tom costello, we should advise our viewers there's no danger to us. >> "nbc nightly news" anchor brian williams fought a persistent fire alarm that was accompanied by the verbal warnings of an automated fire marshal. >> you'll forgive us, we have a fire alarm going on in the studio. >> williams like jordan at the free throw line blocked out the noise and did his job. >> as we continue to deal with a fire alarm that is stuck, we press on nonetheless. >> jon stewart, though, was unsympathetic to williams' plight. >> not so funny is it, funny man?

>> at number two, old guy fight. a reunion of the canadian football league turned into bingo night at the fights when 73-year-old joe kapp on the left mixed it up with 74-year-old angelo moscow over a 48-year-old beef. mosco wrestled for a time. he swung his cane, cap swung his fists and it was on -- actually it was over pretty quickly. and the number one story of the week, newt on top. >> it's clear across the country people are saying, you know, i think we need newt gingrich because. >> i did no lobbying of any kind. >> i helped lead the effort to

defeat communism. >> i was charging $60,000 a speech. >> the odds are very high i'm going to be the nominee. >> newt gingrich was very pleased this week with his position alongside mitt romney atop the republican field. romney generally appeared less pleased. >> bret, i don't know how many hundred times i've said this too. this is an unusual interview. all right. let's do it again. >> herman cain, meanwhile, spent the week reassessing his campaign after the accusation of a long affair. >> there was no sex? >> no. >> none? >> no. >> 61 calls, i talked to a lot of people 61 times. >> the american people are going to raise some cain in -- >> all of this while texas governor rick perry tried to fight his way back into the race with a bold and inadvertent two-part proposal to raise the voting age to 21 and to change the date of next year's november 6th election day. >> those of you that will be 21 by november 12th, i ask for your support and vote, for those of

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commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? >> department of energy. you know, we've all lost our train of thought before, but not many have done it on national tv. and if you want a slick debater, i'm obviously not your guy, but if you want a clean house in washington with a balanced budget amendment, a flat tax, and a part-time congress, i'm your man. i'm rick perry at -- what's that line again? i'm rick perry, and i approve this message. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." look at that pretty shot. plane taking off. we've got mark haleprin and michael steele still with us in washington. and joining the table, "new york times" foreign affairs columnist thomas friedman. he's the co-author of "that used to be us." how america fell behind in the world and how we can come back. that's a good one. >> so by the way -- what happened at the top. >> i missed the top of the hour. >> was that real? >> yeah, that was real.

and -- that's what you call making chicken salad out of bad stuff -- >> no, sometimes you have to throw the food away. >> i like that ad. i really did. i think you had to do that. so you know what happened at the top? >> yes. >> michael steele yelled at me. >> look, no. >> it was more of a lecture, i thought. >> he was condescending, trying to explain -- no, actually i did the yelling. but he was trying to explain to me my republican party. >> oh really? then did you try to explain back your republican party to him? >> yes, it didn't work really well. see what he was saying -- what he was trying to suggest that newt gingrich was ideologically consistent. and i just -- >> you know what? >> i wasn't saying he was ideologically consistent, i was saying that he's tapped into the base, it had nothing to do with ideology, that was the point. it was a very different party. >> joe said michael steele was

stunningly superficial. >> could you not -- please. >> so mika, you also missed something else while you were in the south of france. look at these polls. i want to ask you and thomas friedman who hasn't had a chance to comment on this. look how volatile the republican party has been over the past several months. look at these polls guys. do we have the -- let's first off -- we're going to look at a new nbc "wall street journal" poll. this was in october. herman cain ahead, and a lot of people suggesting he might be the candidate to take down mitt romney. a few months earlier in august, it was rick perry, a guy that everybody's laughing at now had 38%. again, and a lot of people are saying he was the one that was going to win the nomination. a couple months before that in july, michele bachmann, remember the iowa straw poll this summer? she was in first place. in april, a cnn poll showed

donald trump in first place. and then, of course, sarah palin in a reuters poll earlier in june was leading with 22%. thomas, what -- i mean thomas friedman, what a volatile field for the republican party. now they're landing on perhaps the most volatile national candidate in modern history. >> joe, i think it's a combination of two things, michael will correct me if -- >> if he corrects you, it'll be loving and it'll be condescending, go ahead. >> i'm not worried. but i think it's a combination of two things. a lot of the traditional principles of the party i think have come unstuck right now. one is simple answer just cut taxes. well, you know, we kind had an eight-year experiment of that, and i think the subprime crisis makes it even more complicated. and the second is national security. you know, i don't think that traditionally has been a winning issue for republicans. i don't think it's a particular

winning issue right now. you've got that on one side, you've got the fracturing principles of the party with i think a lot of really small candidates. and the two together have confused the republican electorate. >> what i'd like to know, joe, is it normal? is this a part of the republican primary process to have such a -- like a visceral argument about who's conservative? it seems like -- >> no, it's not. but it happens because you have a lot of unknown candidates. that debate would not be happening today. and i think this is a bigger question. not only the republican party, but i think republicans and democrats alike need to ask themselves. we always complain that the giants have left. you look back at the people that used to be in the senate, they're not there anymore. but you have to ask the question, and thomas friedman, why is it? and krauthammer talked about this morning, i talk about it all the time, why isn't jeb bush running this year?

why isn't mitch daniels running this year? why isn't chris christie running this year? why isn't paul ryan? from the house, but a conservative. why aren't these established, mainstream conservatives who would win -- why aren't they -- >> i think it's a couple things, joe. i think one is how much money it takes to run a national race. but i think the second is how unpleasant it is to be in public life these days. we live in a world today where anybody with a cell phone is a paparazzi, anyone with a blog is a reporter and anyone with access to youtube is a film maker. that means anybody else is a public figure. if you're a public figure, it can be extremely unpleasant. >> duvall patrick. and again, we need to think about this, duvall patrick talked about how his wife would go shopping in grocery stores and people would follow her around with a camera phone. the guy -- and i'm sorry i forget his name right now, but he ran against mark kirk in illinois. and forgive me, he said every

time he went out to breakfast, there was a guy in the next booth over filming like this. >> joe -- >> what about sarah palin who has a creep move in next door -- can you believe that? it's just -- you're exactly right. >> i was doing a book signing two nights ago at the university club with my co-author, nice thing. 30 authors signing their books before christmas. and the next guy sitting next to me says i'm tweeting about you. i'm just sitting here. i don't know, maybe it sold books, but all i'm doing is signing books. >> but that's the world we live in now. certainly is gut wrenching for their families. >> it's x fold, and it really has reached past a tipping point where people now really have to think about do i want to put myself through that? >> you know, if i can just say personally -- and i'm not saying i was ever going to do it and i'm not saying i would have won, but i would have won.

but in 2006 the republican party came to me to asked me to run for senate in florida. in '06 my wife and i thought about it, should we? should we? and then you go online and a few minutes later after it comes out, the most horrific things are being written about me. and i'm fine with that because i -- it's garbage. my wife's not, and my kids aren't and they say no. now if i brought that up to my wife, hey, you know what, i think -- she'd be like, are you kidding me? look at the internet. you have to -- you have to be prepared. to put your family through a savage -- it's just a savaging process. it's not even about the candidates, because most people in public life know this is what comes with the territory. are you going to put your wife, chris christie, is he going to put his little daughter through it, his kids -- >> someone says to me, would you like to be in government?

oh, yeah, under one condition, i keep my column at "new york times." i pity anyone who doesn't have a column twice a week in the "new york times" to defend themselves. i'm going nowhere without my six shooters. herman cain's got issues, problems, what not, be uh the guy -- feels like he's been turned inside out, ripped apart, you know, and i'm not trying to defend his behavior. >> no, we understand. >> you can't look at that without just sort of saying, oh, my god -- what that must feel like. >> that's what was said about sarah palin, again. imagine having five kids and imagine having somebody move next door to you, specifically to spy on you 24 hours a day. you want to talk about a tipping point, that's a tipping point. >> that is. and i would say that some people's goals for getting in are for that attention. so it really depends. and you look at the books being sold along the campaign trail, and people have ulterior

motivesmemotive motives. back to the current batch, erick erickson, again, who is more conservative? now i've decided this person's more conservative. i don't understand this. i don't understand why the base doesn't know already. and after you answered that question, i've got your answer as to exactly how consistent newt is because he's been consistently arrogant and there's the latest on that. but first, why? >> by the way, you aren't being negative about erick erickson, were you? >> no, he laid out the facts about huntsman. but i don't understand why this needs to be laid out. why people don't see newt gingrich for the candidate he is, or don't see herman cain for the candidate who he is or potentially was or rick perry? >> i think part of it is what you just talked about is people positioning themselves to be the arbiter of what conservatism is.

i know when i ran for chairman, i was immediately attacked for being, you know, soft on abortion. i was like, wait a minute, i was in a monastery for goodness sake. you think they would let me in the door if i was soft on the fundamentals of the church? you have these people who put themselves as the judge and jury about you, your philosophy, and ideology, when the base, those in the party grinding like yourself who decide i'm going to run for office, you know who you are. and the only thing that you have to do is go out and convince others of what you're going to do for them. i don't need to prove to you how conservative i am or moderate or liberal i am. look at what i'm doing, what i've done -- >> somehow it's not about that. >> that's not enough today, that's the problem. >> let's talk about these candidates, and again, that aren't running this year. the mainstream conservative candidates that could win, mitch daniels, not running. that's a personal thing. >> a good candidate. >> haley barbour.

>> paul ryan, i don't think he wanted his family to go through it. chris christie -- >> most of them were personal. normally when a party's trying to win back the white house, they look for a presidential candidate to define the party. part of why there's dissatisfaction with romney and gingrich is because a lot of republicans say i may like them or not, but i don't want them to represent the brand of the republican party. the people who didn't run, i think a lot of republicans would've loved to have chris christie as the face of the brand. >> the minute he steps into that limelight, then the turning inside out begins. then it's going to be the nitpicking at every little thing he says. his position on immigration, on abortion, his position on these issues that are litmus tests almost. the last year at the rnc, we had certain members talking about -- i made it clear, not on my watch is this going to happen, this going to become a litmus test

party. >> a good friend of mine, thomas, who was also my chief of staff, we were -- we were actually doing relief efforts every day katrina, hour and a half away from us in pensacola, two hours away from us. and we drove back and forth and my buddy goes, you know what? he's a conservative like me. he said you know what's led to this? what's led to blanco not knowing what she's doing and a mayor not knowing what he's doing and -- and no leadership. what's led to that is these checklists that we do. how are they on abortion? how are they on guns? how are they -- on all these things we always look at, but we never seem to get down to the box on how will they lead us? and thomas, you write about this, we need a leader that's going to take us into the 21st century and make courageous decisions that have everything to do with growing the pie.

>> joe, one of my favorite quotes in our book is from mike murphy, which i'm sure you've had on the show. mike said when he was starting out in the business, he had a friend in the advertising business and went to him for advice and said to him, why did burger king never attack mcdonald's? and this wise advertising guy said, never kill the category. first rule of advertising. never kill the category. we have killed the category. >> that is a really good point. >> just when we need politics most, we have killed the category. and that's what's so dangerous about this moment. never have our challenges been bigger and never have we had fewer political resources, trust, competence to actually address. >> you know some people would say started that? >> oh, we know. >> gingrich. >> the guy -- the guy who is now in charge -- in the lead in the republican party. you can go back to what he did in the 1980s. >> yep. >> and i'm not saying that

democrats didn't savage robert bork, they did, they were unfair to him, unfair to clarence thomas, speaking for myself, they certainly were rough in the past, but as far as this specific brand of politics, this personal, personal brand of politics, it started with newt gingrich in the 1980s. he's in first place now. >> which candidate on this platform kills the category or doesn't kill the category? >> which candidate? >> yeah. which one? >> you know, if i were a republican, i'd be a huntsman voter myself. but -- >> you just cost him four points. >> you know what, though? i met a woman on the street yesterday, and the category is being killed. the field is weak. can i say that? and a woman on the street, she's a democrat, she voted for obama, she said, i think i'm going to vote republican this time. that's what you've got out there. a lot of people who are feeling like this presidency potentially they're going to vote against even if they're going to vote

against the party and they got nothing. >> i think the most dangerous line for obama is romney's line, nice guy, i really respect him, but -- >> i think i'm going to -- >> and a lot of people will say, yeah, let's give somebody else a try. >> we were driving through washington last night. we went to the 40th anniversary of the uae. >> yep. >> with our good friend yousef. >> i'm sorry, i'm just not good with last names. but for some reasons i was driving through the city, we were driving past the mall, and i went back to that day, january 20th, 2009. and i looked at them all last night, abandoned, dark, and i said, my god, what has happened in the past three years? there were a lot of people out there that believed that barack obama was going to transform this city.

and he's just not been up to the task, has he? >> well, i don't think it's too late, joe, but it's getting late. it's getting real late for him. and it's why i've been advocating go big, start with the fundamentals, let's have a plan. i think the american people -- i think they totally get where we are. they know we have a really big problem. and i think they're looking for the president to come up with a plan that has three specific attributes. first, it's at the scale of the problem. okay. rich people, poor people, middle class people. i think americans will rally and sacrifice each in their own way and ability to fix the problem. not for payroll tax. people know there's a problem. we want a plan at the scale of the problem. second, there's a plan that is fair. rich people pay more, they've had two good decades, but everybody contributes something. and lastly, joe, it's aspirational. it's to make us great again, not just to say we're going to balance the budget.

i'm a fourth of july guy, i think a lot of americans will rally to something that says -- >> this is not about accounting, it's about american greatness. >> right. and i don't think the president has given that plan. and i think people get it. and i don't think what people in his party say we've done it, it's on our website. if it's not in -- people don't listen through their ears, they listen through their stomachs and guts and he's not connected on a gut level. >> for all this talk, michael steele, of barack obama being radical, the problem is just the opposite. you go back to health care reform. he did all the deals behind the scenes before he even moved forward, the big pharma and the big hospitals. didn't cut the costs -- i mean he's not a big thinker, which is one of the great ironies. >> one of the great ironies. but the key thing that you just said, the underlying thing that goes back to bush is the word sacrifice. since 9/11 to this very moment, neither president bush nor obama has asked the american people to

sacrifice. after 9/11 we were told to go back to the mall, go shopping, don't worry, we've got it in control here. the president comes in like you were saying on the mall that day, big ideas, big dreams, we're going to move the country forward, now is the time for change, we weren't part of the change. don't worry, we got this, you guys go on with your lives. now you're coming back and saying you want to raise my taxes, do this to the rich. all this stuff saying, wait a minute, you're now asking me to put in? with what? i have no job. >> simpson and bowles did an op-ed piece a month ago. they said the bigger we made the plan, the more people we got. and then we started to shrink it, people -- >> and then they included a gas tax, which you abdicate and killed the whole thing. >> coming up senator sherrod brown will join the conversation.

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really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working. and have nobody around them who works. so they literally have no habit of showing up on monday, have no habit of staying all day. they have no habit of i do this and you give me cash. unless it's illegal. what if you paid them part-time in the afternoon to sit at the clerical office and greet people when they come in? what if you pay them to work as the assistant librarian, and as

early as is reasonable and practical. >> welcome back to "morning joe." i've got to comment about that. because you know, mika, we -- i don't pretend to have great experience being around the truly disadvantaged. i was born a middle class guy, i have moved into the -- i would say in the upper middle class, i'm doing really well for myself. so i don't want to pretend to be something i'm not. but i can tell you our experiences going up to harlem with these charter schools and seeing these kids and meeting single moms who work their asses off to get their children to the charter school and get them there on saturdays who scrap day in and day out trying to find a job so their kids can have a better life than them -- >> and be educated.

>> newt gingrich has never looked into these single moms' eyes. newt gingrich has never seen the struggles that happen every day in the bronx. in south central l.a., and where the truly disadvantaged live. that is such an offensive over generalization, i don't know where to begin. and it's an over generalization born of ignorance of a man who has made $100 million by cashing in on his public service. he would have been much better off to actually spend a little bit of time in those neighborhoods instead of making such grotesque generalizations. >> that may have been the third sound bite where he's been completely disconnected from the audience he's speaking to. and the one behind the cameras, the people watching from home, the unemployed, the people who are struggling.

talking about how rich he is and how he didn't need to lobby when he actually did. that's consistent, i don't know if it was the kind of consistent -- >> it reminds me, michael steele, i remember in college one time this rich kid talked about how we were in a political science class and said you know anybody that wants a job can find a job. you know that's funny because remember my dad who worked hard his entire life, being laid off from lockheed to 1971 when rolls royce went down and for a year and a half we drove across the south and my dad, you know what he was trying to do in the early '70s? trying to find a job every day. what's newt gingrich talking about? >> i think from a couple of perspectives. when i hear that sound bite, i think back on my own life. and you just touched a little bit of it. my mom was a laundry worker making minimum wage. and from her fifth grade education and her $3 an hour put me through some of the best schools here in washington, d.c.

and johns hopkins ultimately. and i recognize what he's saying, be ut you cannot paint with a broad brush, because people find a way to make it through and do for themselves. sure, you have some who don't. but that is not the vast majority of what's going on with the poor. the poor are struggling to get out of poverty and they're using education. and this is the break down with our system as a whole. we fail them when we have our kids stuck in a poor, underperforming school, which is why, you know, so many like in this town are pushing for charter schools. so there are pathways. i think that speech should be less about, you know, sort of looking at folks and going, you know, we'll do it this way. >> thomas friedman, that's the leader of the republican party right now. >> i've been a columnist since 1995, and i can tell you my favorite column, the one i enjoyed writing most. my wife is chairman of the seed school foundation which runs the

boarding school here in washington, d.c. and about six years ago now, they opened a baltimore branch. and saturday morning and i -- nothing to do and she said you want to come with me? they're having the lottery for the school. who gets to be in the school. this is actually what started waiting for superman, this column. and you go to that lottery and sit in an auditorium and you see these families clutching a number. and i called the column "life bingo." it's after people were tumbling out of a bingo machine. if your number got called, you were going to get out of some awful inner city public school somewhere. and if your number didn't get called and to sit in that audience to watch the moms, the dads. i'll never forget the head of the school at the time said they had mothers coming in who were on crack but who knew enough -- their mind was sharp enough they wanted to fill in the form to make sure their kid had a chance not to fall -- >> it's amazing. >> that's what kenny said at her

school in harlem. she said the parents -- it doesn't matter how bad off they were personally, they knew. >> they knew. >> if they could get their children to the front door that their children would have a better life. >> ticket out. joining the table here in washington, we have author and screen writer and founder of the website thatminoritything.com, john ridley. and in new york, this doesn't make sense because we're here and they're there. what? >> i don't understand. >> well, okay. >> i came all the way up. >> i'm here. >> i'm here -- >> they told me the little table. this is a coffee table. >> just you? >> oh, willie. >> what in the world? what are they doing there? it's coffee chat with willie geist. >> senator sherrod brown and moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. >> i'm getting confused. there are too many moving parts. willie, you talk, talk. >> talk, that's a good talk.

willie talk. let's start talking with you, senator brown. we were willing to that conversation off of what newt gingrich said talking about the way people in congress, people in the media, perhaps, don't grasp the reality of what's happening in real people's lives. and you were referring to it back to the payroll tax issue. >> when you figure the payroll tax cut comes out to 67 -- actually about $100 a month for a family in this country, that to members of congress and those that sit around tables like this, that's not big of a deal. but i think that's -- that what earlier what joe was talking about and mika talking about is members of congress too often don't think about, you know, how this -- how the things we do affect the daily lives of people. and we don't meet enough single parents and don't meet enough people that are struggling. and that's why the payroll tax really does matter. that's why congress has to focus much more on jobs than we have, frankly. you know, one of the most

important things this congress did was the china currency bill we passed overwhelmingly bipartisan, biggest bipartisan jobs bill the senate has passed. it will mean more manufacturing jobs -- >> both sides want this issue here. democrats want to tax millionaires in order to pay for it, republicans don't want to go for that. both of you are positioning for how to use that issue in next year's election. and senator schumer has said there'll be a negotiation about how to pay for it. this isn't dead. >> it's not dead. i think the fact that republicans at all costs say no to anything that has to do with if it's paid for by people making over $1 million a year. they want to come up with phony pay fors and they didn't want to do anything until we brought this to the fore. we're going to continue. we had a republican senator last night that joined us. i think we'll see more of them next week as this gets closer. this is a tax cut that will put money into people's pockets. even as you know, john mccain's chief economist said we do this,

it's hundreds of thousands of jobs. if we don't do this, it could tip us back into recession. we've got to do it. >> larger point, senator, americans watching the debate happening in washington and see the only part of the jobs bill is the hire vets part, which there was consensus on. from your experience, you've been there since, what? '93 between the house and senate. how bad are things right now in terms of gridlock, in terms of partisanship? because it looks from the outside people waiting for a payroll tax cut, the guys in washington, the men and women can't get this done. the problem's too big for our system. >> i think what joe was saying earlier, this started in the late '80s before i got there with newt gingrich. i don't know, this sort of politics of personal destruction back and forth. but i -- i, you know, and earlier they were talking about the giants in the senate and who are they and where are they? and were they ever here? i think it's worse in a sense

we've seen one political party. and i don't want want to sound partisan here, but one political party has signed a pledge to a lobbyist to say under no circumstances will we accept the tax on millionaires or a tax period. and it's awfully hard to negotiate, it's awfully hard to move the country in the right direction that way. and when you think for the last ten years, the philosophy of one party, the answer to everything is cut taxes, especially in upper income people. it meant basically no net job creation throughout the last decade. and that's why the country overwhelmingly says, yeah, move on infrastructure, move on my school renovation bill, move on this payroll tax, fund it at least in part by a tax cut on the wealthiest people. >> senator -- >> they've had a darn good ten years, and it's time to go in that direction. >> senator -- >> senator, with all due respect, you do sound a bit partisan because i could say over the past ten years democrats have shied away from medicare. they've shied away from medicaid

reforms, social security reforms, they've shied away -- they've shied away from the type of tough decisions as republicans have on the other side that would actually get us moving in the right direction. and by the way, i hate to bring up a messy fact. but the reality is that barack obama's answer to his election loss was blowing $1 trillion hole in america's national debt after rejecting simpson/bowlses by extending the bush tax cuts. and his answer now is cutting the payroll tax. so let's not pretend that grover norquist has come up with this piece of paper that has magically enslaved just republicans. i haven't seen a whole lot of profiles of courage from this president either. >> concerning what you said a minute ago, the profile of courage is a bit in reverse. you're saying we should be talking about social security and medicare. first of all, we didn't sign a

pledge saying we wouldn't talk about it. second, and we were just -- >> you just don't talk about it. >> i'm not going to be part of raising the retirement age, raising the eligibility age for medicare or social security. i was in youngstown the other day, a 62-year-old woman said to me, she was uninsured obviously. and she says i can't wait until i'm 65 years old, then i have health insurance. imagine living your life where you simply -- everything's about where i can't wait until i'm 65 so i can get insurance. and you're going to tell the woman in the hotel that changes sheets and tell the guy that works construction or a woman works in the diner, we're going to raise the eligibility age so we can have a grand deal that you guys talk about? no. >> first of all, don't say what you guys talk about. senator, the fact of the matter is, if i'm a doctor and i open up a patient and that patient has cancer, when that patient wakes up, i have one of two choices. i can either make them feel good and say you know what? perfectly clean, you just get up off this operating table and go

and live your life, you're going to be fine. or i can say you have a cancer, and if this cancer goes unchecked and continues to grow the way it is, you will die. the fact of the matter is, and you know it, you know the medicare numbers don't add up and the medicaid numbers don't add up. you know that tough decisions have to be made, that this has nothing to do with the republican party or the democratic party, this has nothing to do with conservative ideology or liberal ideology. this has to do with math. and yet you're talking about a woman in youngstown, ohio, that you're not going to be mean to. that is irrelevant to the underlying fact that medicare over the next generation destroys this country. >> well, you sort of shifted out of social security there, which is not the issue. you mentioned it earlier. take that off the table because we know how to make that work so that we don't raise the retirement age, especially for moderate and low-income people. put that aside. the health care bill you know this, joe, the health care bill

we pass two years ago has a lot of significant cost savings. the issue isn't the cost of medicare as much as the cost of health insurance generally. medicare actually is more efficient, as you know, than private health insurance, in terms of administrative costs. so we know how to do a lot of this, but the answer isn't to raise the medicare eligibility age or the answer isn't to shift a lot of costs to seniors. i fully am aware of the problems with medicare. i've worked on this for years. but we've not by and large done the right things there, but we can do it without scaling back benefits and just ignoring this 62-year-old woman. >> all right. we'll let you -- >> i don't want to ignore a 62-year-old woman, but the fact of the matter is, the numbers don't add up. and you know, if we actually had curb costs in barack obama's health care reform plan and health care reform plan that you talked about, i would be wringing my hands opposed to it, but i would say at least it took

care of the cost curb. it just doesn't do that. >> i respectfully disagree. >> we're going to let you two guys pick this up later. david gregory, i want to go to you quickly on newt gingrich. where are we with him? we were talking earlier this morning. is he the latest, greatest sort of come up -- >> well -- >> is he here to stay? >> one of the vulnerabilitievul these comments about poor children. on sunday it'll be 17 years ago he was talking about disadvantaged kids going into orphanages and he got into a lot of trouble over that. he's a presidential nominee who is not afraid to veer way, way off script and be provocative with ideas. there are going to be conservatives who like that. but he's acknowledged that could hurt him. this could be an issue that hurts him. right now, he's riding high. he says he's going to be the nominee, and it's a fight for the right. he and romney, and romney's going to start engaging him and attacking him on his own conservative credentials. >> and you'll talk to david

axelrod on sunday on "meet the press." >> that's right on the obama presidency and why he deserves four more years in his view. >> that's "meet the press" on sunday morning, thank you so much. senator brown, irvin myer. thanks for being here. take care. >> more "morning joe" in a moment. my contacts are so annoying. i can't wait to take 'em out.

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the new kid on the block and isn't this wonderful? and it'd be great if it would work out and we didn't know anything about him. i'm the guy who has been around forever. i'm going to be the nominee. it's very hard not to look at the recent polls and think that the odds are very high i'm going to be the nominee.

>> wow. okay. joining us now nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of the "daily rundown" chuck todd. he's going to be the nominee. >> it's all over. >> let's end the segment now. >> now we have to follow a new primary. as the elect. >> there's no doubt if newt wins the republican nomination, there is an independent candidate. >> i think there was going to be one anyway. i'm still a believer there's going to be more than one. i think you're going to have a liberal populist, i think we're going to look like europe this year. there's too many opportunities, too much easy access to the ballot this year in a way. so there's a lot of sort of lazy, angry politicians out there that could get on this. but gingrich in particular, then i think it absolutely motivates sort of the center right to do something. >> so this morning, we've been cycling through polls, and if you have it, we can talk about it. we start with an october wall

street -- nbc "wall street journal" poll that in october, do we have these that we can cycle through, guys? and, of course, the person in first place then was cain. and then you can go back earlier and i think a couple months earlier in august, the same nbc poll showed perry up at 38%. remember then when perry was the presumptive nominee? in july, michele bachmann right off the iowa straw poll, trump in april in the straw poll, first place, and sarah palin was first place in the reuters poll. the question of the hour is, is -- well, is this newt gingrich's 15 minutes, or will he have more staying power than the rest? >> it's not about him, it's about romney and the fact that romney can't seem to win over the rest of the republican party. and that's ultimately been the problem. i think you look at the field logically, of the eight guys on there. if it's supposed to be the establishment versus the conservative, then ultimately

newt actually makes sense being. sort of -- he was the one, you know, what were the two of them doing in october of 1994, right? newt gingrich was out there trying to be the conservative, insurgent revolutionary, and mitt romney was the guy very delicately trying to say, well, i'm kind of a republican. >> kind of a republican. >> while he was running against kennedy. by the way, i think that's -- all the warts of newt, i think a lot of conservative republican voters are going to say, you know, for all of my problems with newt over the years, he's always sort of been there. >> wow. >> what were they doing in the summer of this year? one was calling paul ryan a right wing radical social engineer. >> right. >> and the other was being conservative. newt is just -- he just flips per week. romney flips over a generation. newt flips every week. >> well, and i think that's going to be newt's problem, all right, is can he -- you have one candidate here in mitt romney

who i'd argue has become over disciplined. right? and that's -- we saw that in the interview. if you don't get to -- he is going to process likes and gosh i can't believe i have to answer this question again but i have to stay in my box and talk about the three things i'll talk about. newt has never met the word discipline. >> yeah. >> we saw yesterday, on his own he brings up child labor laws and that, you know, sort of blanket statement about people that live in poor neighborhoods. >> right. >> that's the newt -- what makes him fun for reporters to cover because you never know what he might say. and you can throw any question out there and he has a ten-minute answer on it. >> john, you have been talking too much this morning. >> yeah. >> knowledge speaks, wisdom listens. i have an opportunity to listen to some of the brightest people. >> thank you. >> very good point. >> thank you, john. >> so, john, what is so ironic is this is such an -- a year of opportunity for the republican party. barack obama can't seem to find his footing.

the gallup poll yesterday showed him at historic lows compared to jimmy carter. this according to gallup. but yet can the republicans cash in? >> i don't -- you know, i don't know. it's early. i remember talking to chuck i think in 2008 and it was about gas prices and i thought, you know, nobody saw what was coming. nobody saw the financial meltdown. it still is so far away i don't know that they can cash in. to me, what is surprising, is that this point with all of these individuals who are in, they seem woefully unprepared to run for their own candidacy. to me, it just seemed as if you had a lot of people who felt the perceived mood of the country would be enough to get them where they're going. the bachmanns, perrys, whom ever. even newt gingrich early on however you may feel about him was, you know, i'll take a vacation and i don't really need this staff and those kinds of things. they weren't really prepared to do the work. not just to beat president obama. >> right. >> but that seemed far and just

they're angry, i can go in with rhetoric or do whatever or that mitt had been running five years or so and we're all set to go and guy like herman cain can slip in because it is easy. that's what was surprising to me. >> look at cain. he is exactly right. look at cain's gaffes, perry's gaffes. you go through the list of these front-runners. >> joe, i go back to my feeling which is this is a center right, center left country. basically you have people running from the far right and far left or the left and the right and i think whoever captures that center right/center left is going to be the next president or should be because i think that's where the solutions are. and what strikes me right now, and chuck alluded to it, this is a huge void in the center left/center right that neither party has leverage or tapped into. >> all right. chuck todd, stay with us if you could. >> okay. >> thomas friedman, thank you very much. wonderful to have you with us. >> thank you. when you had to, you talked over ridley. you have to be assertive.

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all right. a look at monday's show. we'll have congressman barney frank. >> all right! >> joining us on the set. that's going to be fun.

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♪ >> what happened with the brain freeze that night with the -- you had the three things to remember. >> well, you know, one, two, and -- >> yeah. >> and -- ah -- ah -- it was -- it happens, man. let me tell you. >> now what happened in new hampshire here? this is the most recent one. >> yeah. >> take a look. >> those of you that are -- will be 21 by november the 12th, i

ask for your support and your vote. those of you who won't be just work hard. >> oh, yeah. you and i, we grew up in that 21 voting age thing. i was thinking drinking age maybe. >> drinking age. >> yeah. >> okay. all right. that makes sense. how about -- >> you got to have an excuse, right? that's mine and i'm sticking to it. >> all right. where did the 12 come from? >> the 12. >> november 12th. voting on november 12th. >> oh, did i say november 12th? that would be late wouldn't it? >> yeah. >> 2012. >> okay. >> yeah. >> now, luckily you're in the clear. >> i'm with you. >> stay with me. i'm going to need you. >> oh, gosh. i have to say, he's likeable. welcome back to "morning joe." >> he walked the guy out the door after a long dinner.

>> michele bachmann, too. so great. bye. >> we'll talk soon. >> so good to see you. >> bob dole was great after he lost to bill clinton. >> remember his first ad he did was viagra. >> not doritos? >> okay. i should mention, back with us onset here in washington, chuck todd, john ridley, and joining us now onset, former press secretary to house speaker newt gingrich, now the publisher of mullings.com, rich galin. good to have you back. >> thanks. >> you have some insight that we really -- we need help because -- because it's looking like we're picking on him. it really is. and you've got the background on newt gingrich. we have this latest sound bite where he is talking about four children and their need to work. and we're just going after him as if it's a free for all. having said that, can you give us the back story as to where

these comments come from? >> they come from a true -- in newt's defense they come from a true sense of, this is the logical step, you go from a to b to c to d. you have to agree with him that a and d are legit and b and c are the way to get there but he really does believe that. the other day he defended his non-lobbying by saying he made $60,000 a speech and didn't need it. what i wrote was that all over the country they were -- there were event planners explaining to their bosses why they paid him $100,000. >> by the way, there were a lot of people that said, wow, 60,000? we paid newt a hundred thousand. >> that's what i said. >> yes. >> how can we have overpaid? the second thing is i happened to look and wrote about this yesterday or the day before, he said it in south carolina and it went to the census bureau site and the median income for a family of four in south carolina is, guess what?

$58,000. newt made more in 45 minutes than a family in an entire year. but in his mind that is an absolute logical explanation for why he doesn't need the lobby. >> when i hear these things i have a personal reaction. i have to be transparent. i'll say it again. i said it yesterday. i think you've been as objective as possible as a republican looking at the field and history and you worked with him. >> the thing is, rich, i'm glad you're here. we can talk about it and we can go around the table and talk to others who may not have had the opportunity to work as close as newt. for me it's not personal against newt at all. he was a very erratic leader. you go back and you read tom coburn's book about newt. you talk to anybody that's worked with him and they say he's a great ideas guy. but there was an erratic nature to him where you didn't know what was going to happen the next moment with newt. you could work your tail off for three months on a project and

newt could blow it up with a flip statement. as bill thomas said, bill thomas for those who don't know, a really close friend of newt's. bill thomas said in front of the house caucus one time after newt had blown something else up and destroyed our chances of getting the better of bill clinton, newt, you can tell us what is going to happen 50 years from now but you have no idea what's going to happen in your own congress tomorrow. >> yeah, well, and part of that was his own doing. look, two things. people have skill sets that don't necessarily transfer. so, i mean, if you wanted me to take on a job that said, you know, kind of come up with good quips and write three days a week i can do that. but if you give me a job that said this takes a lot of organizational skill, no. i'll try to -- >> whoa. >> i'll try to do it. i'll promise to do it. i will even try to but it ain't going to happen. that's the way newt is. he is newt and he's -- i think he is trying to fit himself into a box that simply is not going -- it's not going to contain him. >> you've reported -- you followed newt gingrich as a reporter for sometime.

are you surprised as i will be the first to admit i am surprised that newt gingrich after the summer of tiffany's and greek islands and staff members have quit that we find ourselves here at a position where newt gingrich is looking a lot like he did in the summer of 1994? >> well, the next big thing. >> apparently he is surprised, too. even he admits that he was -- didn't think this is where he would be right now. this whole republican race is sort of crazy. but i was going through this. imagine if the field had been this -- john thune, chris christie, mitch daniels, jeb bush, tim pawlenty, mitt romney, and newt gingrich. >> wow. >> imagine if that had been the eight. i think newt would have done just as well in the debates. people would have said more like the biden figure. >> exactly. >> sort of the intellectuals. but, boy, the republican party would be having a different conversation. they'd be having a debate about which one is going to be most equipped, probably be having an

electability conversation. >> they're all main stream conservatives. >> there are some that are more conservative than others in that group. but that's the best and the brightest inside the republican party i would argue today. >> who would put themselves through this? >> that's the problem. if you're smart enough to be on that list you're smart enough to say i'm not doing this. >> so doing this to sell books, and it was newt who said, and here is the joke on us, newt told mitch daniels to run because he said when you run for president you can sell a lot more books. >> i think newt had two motivations. it was very similar to what the biden motivation was to run back in '07 when he ran which is, one, for newt, one was money. but i think two was rehabilitation. he wanted to make himself more acceptable inside the republican party and maybe a remote possibility he could be in a cabinet. >> he has to be acceptable personally. i don't understand. >> simply because the rest of this field --

>> boy. >> wasn't ready. >> you remember back in 1991 the democrats were called the seven dwarfs. remember? >> right. >> everybody wanted to run against some guy named bill clinton. >> why clinton survived by the way his scandals is because that field was so dwarf like. >> i remember bob kerry famously saying if bill clinton wins the nomination we'll be opened up like a rusty can. >> there you go. >> peanut. because it was the georgia primary. >> he did change that. >> the last sound bite we saw of newt gingrich, just the very last one, about work. how will your website cover it? >> i believe this is the second time he said he's gone down this road before. i live in california. >> explain it for people who weren't here. >> the sound bite about -- >> you know what? let's play it. >> really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works.

so they literally have no habit of showing up on monday. they have no habit of staying all day. they have no habit of i do this and you give me cash. unless it's illegal. what if you paid them part-time in the afternoon to sit at the office and greet people when they come in? what if you pay them to work as the assistant librarian? and i pay them as early as is reasonable and practical. >> wow. okay. >> they don't get money unless they're doing something. >> how does that translate? >> here is the interesting thing. as you know i was having dinner with marion barry last night and he talked about he obviously has a legacy but one thing he was most proud of was his summer jobs program and really said almost the same things about giving kids a sense of purpose and getting them off the streets and working. that's not so much the issue. it's the box that you put it in. i was going to say i believe the first time he said this, and i live out in california. how it got reported was that newt gingrich said, child labor

laws are stupid. and when you put it in that kibld ofkind of a context is that people, what people extract is unless it's illegal and stupid and things like that and not really understanding maybe there is an idea there. maybe there is something there. but when you frame it in such stark terms, you know, anticolonialists, sort of more as a racist, you talk about how i report on the website, newt -- >> and newt gingrich saying bill clinton, i mean not bill clinton but barack obama is the foodstamp president. >> those are the things that end up in my ears and the ears of my audience as codification and it becomes not -- >> of course. >> not about whether you're giving kids direction or giving them opportunities or teaching them things but if they're not doing this they're doing something illegal. child labor laws across the board are stupid. every kid should have a mop in their hands and be a janitor. by the way, if you're going to be a janitor -- >> developing a work ethic for

kids. >> or be an assistant in the library. he figured out that being a janitor was not the best -- >> what newt does is he speaks in code. he inflames the base. but then he's able to say what chuck just said. but there is a really good idea behind this headline. i've just rolled the hand grenade under the table. it's going to help me out politically. when it blows up i'll just clean it up. >> i don't think he thinks about it that way. i really think that he believes, and we've all been around him a lot. he truly does believe that if you were as smart as he was you'd see it the way he does. we talked about this the other day. armey was the same way, graham, ph.ds in congress are awful to deal with. >> you know, my thing is intelligence isn't a rumor. all i hear is he is the smartest guy. and you hear it ad nauseam to the point where it's supposed to be true. >> let me just say if newt gingrich is the smartest guy in the room leave that room. seriously. he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but if you're in a

room and newt gingrich is the smartest guy in the room, trust me, you're in the wrong room. >> i don't know -- i can't disparage him. >> i'm not disparaging. >> but you're saying things you know because you've been around these folks. when i say these things i don't know. i remember and this will sound like an odd analogy but late in the day the late night talk show wars it was pat sage anuradha koirala against arsenio hall and pat sajak said something very interesting. you shouldn't have to take out ads saying you're cool. he's still working. i know arsenio. he is a great guy. pat is still working. >> great point. >> chuck, you've covered newt long enough. he's constantly talking about how smart he is. >> well, it is. and for the next 32 days -- >> and very rich. >> can he sustain this for five months for delegate work? >> can i answer that? rich, would you like to answer

that? i said this morning there is no way. >> he can't keep this going until june. >> thank you. chuck? >> can he do it without resigning at some point? >> no. >> chuck, we'll see you on "the daily rundown" coming up right after morning joe. thank you very much. up next former national security adviser dr. brzenzski and andrea mitchell join the conversation. hi, dad. >> now we're raising it. we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us.

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all right. well, maybe he is the smartest guy in the room. i don't know. >> who, newt? >> your father is.

here's the thing. >> what? >> your father is always the smartest guy in the room but never tells anybody, i'm the smartest guy in the room. >> i think that is the key to success in getting that message across. >> exactly. >> joining us now former national security adviser for president carter dr. brzenzski, dad, and nbc correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports" andrea mitchell. and mark halperin rejoins the table. good to have you back, mark. >> dr. brzenzski let's talk about europe. it's been quite a week. where are we today? >> not far from yesterday. i think it's going to work out basically, you know. it's a serious problem but it's not yet in a catastrophic condition. i think the key european countries in particular germany and france are assuming the kind of responsibility they should. the british are playing their own game. in fact, to some extent they are pumping up the euro crisis. i've always been skeptical but europe but i think the british know they cannot blow up the

euro and cannot blow up the european union without suffering. so i think it is going to work out. the issue really is greece, will greece work out and survive within the european union or will it be so stagnant and unable to adjust to reform itself that in some fashion it'll opt out? but i think europe will survive in either case. >> are we seeing the rise of germany? obviously it's been an industrial power since the late '60s, early '70s. are we seeing a unified germany take a position in europe that they haven't had in the post war era? >> well, in a sense, germany is the economic leader but it has to be sensitive about the political leadership. for obvious reasons there is sensitivity to that. i think there is a more basic problem europe confirms and america confirms and that is the relevance of the west to a changing world. a world in which the phenomenon

of global political awakening is creating restlessness, impatience, tensions. and the west, today, is somewhat corrupt and easy about its own system. the united states is becoming rapidly one of the most socially unjust societies in the world, and that is raising basic questions about the relevance of the west to a world that is now universely awakened, stirring, restless, conflicted. >> now, when you say socially unjust -- >> yes, please explain that. >> explain how the united states of america -- >> a strong statement. >> you believe is becoming socially unjust. >> social disparities between the rich and the poor in the united states are now the most severe in the world. there is a measure called the coefficient that measures social inequality and the united states is at the top of the list with if i remember correctly china,

brazil, and india, i think. now, i'm not talking about places like rwanda. >> right. >> that's a serious problem. secondly, do you know that in america if you are born poor, your chances of dying richer than your parents are lower now than in europe. europe has more social mobility upwards than america. >> yeah. >> and that is a very serious problem. so we have to face that and i don't think we're facing it. then on top of it of course we have the problem of how do we manage our role in the world in a world that is changing and in this messy political awakening there are several relationships that are critical and we have to handle responsibly. that is one with china, we have to avoid a situation in which we demonize each other and get into deeper conflict. how do we extract ourselves from southwest asia and so forth? >> andrea? >> i agree with just about everything dr. brzenzski has said except that i'm not as optimistic as you are about the

eurozone. the disparities between rich and poor in this country are the underlying tension. you see the exaggerated forms of it on both sides with what we saw with the tea party, the objection to a social compact on health care and then the emergence of the occupy movement. that is a real movement that there is real passion and anger there. that is one expression of it. but i really think the euro zone is patched over. there is a temporary fix from the central banks. the european central bank saying if there is an austerity program, a new fiscal compact in the eurozone, down the road, that they will then continue to come to the rescue, but we haven't seen the commitment from the countries in the eurozone, those in trouble, to that deficit cutting austerity and it's unclear how politically they can survive, remain in and make those fixes and what no one except perhaps in one sense ron paul is focusing on is that the temporary accord in europe is

partly financed by american taxpayers because it was the fed that jumped in. the fed was the lead bank there. so the initiative this week that sparked the big rise on wall street, that was an american taxpayer bailout of european banks because down the road the fear was that the european banks' failure would come rolling back and affect us. >> it is all frighteningly interconnected to the point where we cannot -- there is no fire wall between us and -- >> you look at that crisis unfortunately in europe as well and it's coming to a country near you soon, the united states. we had sherrod brown on. i have been critical of republicans unwilling to make tough choices regarding tax reform. sherrod brown, senator from ohio, sat there with a straight face and said he wasn't going to tell a 62-year-old woman in youngstown, ohio that medicare needed to be touched. >> that was this morning. >> that just wasn't fair. after the segment he said, tell

that to a 62-year-old woman in greece. we are -- we have republicans and democrats alike in washington, d.c. that seem to be living in the 1990s that don't understand the growing disparity, don't understand the growing debt, that don't understand that our tack -- the taxes we collect are 13% of gdp while our spending is 26% of gdp. i don't know how we face these challenges. >> we have had three or four bites at the apple to try to face up to it -- bowles/simpson and negotiations over the debt ceiling and the negotiations between the president and the speak herb. and the such committee. and we didn't do it. now it appears we won't until after the election. and that sets a bad example. it alienates voters. it also keeps the united states from playing a constructive role in being able to deal with other countries and put our economy on the right track, which the world needs to grow. we must have a growing american economy. >> let's talk about iran next

dr. brzenzski. >> i think andrea put her finger on the key issue. but the fact that the united states acted together with other banks is not because we are charitable but because we know we are interdependent and so do the other banks, the chinese also. and i think that shows the fact that we are aware of the problem. in europe, at least the french and the germans are being willing to display some degree of political leadership, even though they haven't agreed yet on how to match their respective approaches. that is a political reality that should not be disregarded. my gut feeling bottom line is they will hack it through but i think we have to face the fact that we are going to be living for probably the next several decades in a world that is going to be unstable, turbulent, with periodic crises. we no longer have the power to dominate it or to shape it.

we are no longer divided worldwide into two blocs but are interwoven and it is going to be an uneasy ride, wavy, and how we perform at home. this sounds like a slogan but is a fundamental fact. how we perform at home on the social issues, political leadership, is going to be decisive to our ability to do reasonably well in that context and that is very much at issue. >> i want to move on to china and other issues pertaining to the region. president obama went to australia earlier in the month and made a clear message in terms of how beijing ought to be responding and where he is going to be putting u.s. troops. can we play that, alex? do you have that? okay. stand by. we'll have it. because there is definitely deliberate action here and a message and i want to get on the other side of the sound bite a sense of what are strategic -- what our strategic interest is in the region and what the goal is that the president has given china's rise. here is president obama in

australia. >> as president i have made a deliberate and strategic decision. as a pacific nation the united states will play a larger and long-term role in shaping this region and its future. our enduring interests in the region demand our enduring presence in the region. the united states is a pacific power and we are here to stay. >> what are our interests in the region and what will be the effect of our presence? >> first commenting on the president's speech i think he was right in saying asia is of central importance to america and that america is a pacific power. i wish, i really wish he hadn't packaged it in the context in which he earlier has said our military engagement in southwest asia is coming to an end. therefore we can now pivot and we're putting our forces in the pacific, incidentally nominally, because it is a small number in australia. >> about 500 troops now. >> what is the message in that to the chinese? we'll be engaged militarily and that implies the possibility of

growing hostility. the chinese are also going to be responding to that in some fashion. and don't under estimate -- under communism that nationalism has been somewhat subdued but if it begins to surface it will become a powerful force. >> you see that in the south china seas. >> exactly. >> people are exerting themselves. >> then we start demonizing each other. where are we headed? >> why was it therefore in america's interests to put that small number of troops in if it would exacerbate tensions with the chinese? >> i don't understand it. i don't think china was threatening australia. who else was threatening australia? who are these troops supposed to -- >> the new zealands -- >> the fact is we have treat wis japan and we're sticking with it. we have treaties with korea. we're sticking with it. >> right. >> we do have a naval presence in the area. so why rub it in? >> let's talk about iran right now.

>> here we go again. >> here we go again. the eu obviously talking about getting tougher. >> very interesting poll has just been released by the middle eastern center. that is an important institution connected with brookings which deals with the middle east. it has strong ties with israel and the public opinion poll shows that the majority of the israelis would favor israel giving up its nuclear weapons if iran gave up its nuclear weapon. but it is interesting because it shows the israeli public opinion is sophisticated and intelligence. in fact, there is another part of that poll which just is coming out now which shows that 43% of israelis would favor a military strike against iran but 41% would not. that is equally divided. >> yes. >> so that shows there is a fierce debate going on right now in israel. we're going, in fact, msnbc,

phil griffin and i are going to israel next week. >> oh, wow. >> we're going live on hot tv, a cable channel there. msnbc is now going to be live in israel. we are excited about that. we're doing our show there next tuesday. >> yes. >> so that's fantastic. >> this is going to be a great opportunity to test israeli public opinion about this iran issue, which is so dividing the u.s. and israel. >> so, mark -- >> terrific guests. >> the former spy and military chiefs are all against the military -- israel has f-15es, their best fighter plane. they cannot go out and get iran and wipe out their nuclear, deeply buried, dispersed nuclear activities. they can do damage, you know. >> but they have the hope that if they do it, the iranians will then retaliate not against them because they can't but against us and then we'll go in and finish the job which i'm not sure we can or will.

>> mark, it's very important this poll dr. brzenzski cited, what, 43% of israelis? >> she cited the 43%. >> what was the percentage -- >> between 16 and 17. >> oh, okay. giving up a nuclear weapon. i'm not going to be holding my breath and expecting barack obama or the republican candidates to be talking about this, which is fascinating again, the politics in the united states regarding israel actually much different than the politics in israel. >> yes. >> it's -- the republicans are most enthused about running against the president for sure. >> still ahead we're bringing the november jobs report and next "vanity fair" defends the impact of defense spending on our nation's ability to get other things done. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪

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welcome back. we are following breaking news. new monthly jobs numbers crossing right now. let's go to cnbc, live at the new york stock exchange with that. what is the number? >> michelle, big news here. >> absolutely. good, good numbers this morning. 120,000 jobs created. if you look at just private sector jobs 150,000. we did lose 20,000 government jobs. 8.6% is the unemployment rate, falling to the lowest level since march of 2009. and after that, the previous two

numbers, september, october, also revised higher by a total of 72,000 jobs. we have seen strong job creation over the last two months. the markets like it a lot this morning. we'll see if that continues. the market also likes the fact that in europe we are seeing a solution broadly taking shape, perhaps to the european financial crisis and so we have a lot of positive reaction to that as well. >> interesting. >> michelle, a drop of 0.4% from 9.0 to 8.6. what is the likelihood that is going to be revised up later as andrea was saying after the holiday season or does this seem like a pretty solid number? >> well, revisions happen all the time. if you go back six months and look or back a year or two, there's always revisions happening in the numbers but 8.6%, i think, tomorrow when it's in the paper is going to be good for the consumer, good for the individual. it can feed on itself. you're talking about the historical accuracy of that number. i can't be absolutely sure about it if we were going to run some kind of a previous look at it.

>> great for the consumer. >> absolutely. >> great for businesses. great for the president. 8.6. that is a significant drop. >> might like his job a little better today. >> a little bit. >> thank you. we'll be right back with "vanity fair"'s todd herd and also dr. brzenzski and andrea mitchell. keep it right here on "morning joe." i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here. to help come up with a plan and get you on the right path. i have more than a thousand fidelity experts working with me so that i can work one-on-one with you. it's your green line. but i'll be there, every step of the way. call or come in for a free portfolio review today.

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what's in your wallet? this guy's amazing. in government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. the potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists. and will persist. we must never let the weight of

this combination endanger our libertyies or democratic processes. >> that was president eisenhower warning against the dangers of the military industrial complex. joining us now is naleid itor for "vanity fair" who writes in the latest issue of "vanity fair" about this issue and in part writes this about the private papers of the late cold war architect and diplomat george canon who shared the same fears as president eisenhower. do you want me to read an excerpt or launch right in? >> let's launch in. george canon is having sort of a spring -- it's spring time for kinnon fans but he was the architect of the post war military industrial complex and then became one of its biggest critics. >> in some important way he was the crucial architect of the policy containing the soviet union and he spent much of the rest of his life trying to argue that his words have been misinterpreted and he was really

talking about some of the things dr. brzenzski was talking about in the last segment which is political containment, showing by our own example here at home that there was a better option. he felt very strongly that the soviet union would eventually collapse of its own internal inconsistency which of course in some ways it did. >> isn't it fascinating we are seeing george kinnon written about again and examined again. eisenhower has three books out either out or coming out about dwight eisenhower and we're looking back and here we have the architect of containment and also the general that helped us win world war ii both skeptics of the military. both casting a very wary eye on this military industrial complex. >> but it wasn't containment alone that led to the collapse of the soviet union. he advocated containment but also a kind of static containment. we should do better and then they will collapse. but they didn't collapse because we just did better. the point is, we didn't go in

for detente like nixon wanted, a division of europe permanently. we went in for containment plus penetration. peaceful engagement undermining the system, supporting human rights, supporting the movements for liberation in central europe. encouraging change within the soviet union. and all of that then created a condition which the soviet union imploded. kinnon had one part of the package correct, namely don't militarize the issue only but he basically was a conservative. >> that comes increasingly clear in reading the new biography, also looking at his papers. he was very strongly elitist. he loved america but had deeply ambivalent feelings about the people and voters and swings of public opinion and terrible feelings by the end of his life about the media. he thought the media was a malign force in american life especially television. >> oh, of course. he is a wise man. >> very wise man. >> there are some who would argue there was a military

component, certainly reagan administration officials would argue there was not only the nuclear buildup but, importantly, what became known as "star wars." >> reagan didn't start that. >> no. very good. very true. the fact is that there was the fact that they spent so much on their military and industrial complex that they imploded from within. >> i think what turns out to be interesting from domestic political point of view is this consensus has continued, the consensus we have to be the super power in projecting our force all around the world in every corner of the world -- >> we now spend -- >> it's less than it was in historic terms because the gdp pie is bigger but we have a huge percentage of the world's military spending. >> about half of it. >> and the truth is, it was president kennedy in some ways who with his pay any price bear any burden, any price, any burden? >> right. >> that got us off on a track that it turns out three days

earlier eisenhower is warning in some ways has been the more lasting. >> we do and you're right, dr. brzenzski. we spend more money on our military than all the other countries combined. >> it is about half and half almost. >> right. what is the impact of that? >> we're going bananas for example over the fact -- and then the chinese have launched their first aircraft carrier. this is a threat to our naval supremacy. let me ask you this. do you know the history of the aircraft carrier? it was built in ukraine 20 years ago. it wasn't finished. ukrainians decided to sell it for scrap. the chinese bought it for scrap and were planning to place it as a floating casino by hong kong. the chinese military stepped in and said it's not a bad ship. why don't we rebuild it? >> a retrofitted casino ship. >> that is going to challenge the american navy. >> it is a great threat. so i guess a question is how

have the last ten years impacted our spending? we've been in many instances chasing shadows. >> yeah. >> and the war on terror. our spending has continued to skyrocket. >> the bush administration increased defense spending roughly by 70% but something even more important has happened to the psyche of the country which is that we're in this war by definition of the bush administration and some ways the obama administration, war that is endless, shadowy, indefinite. nobody is going to say we don't need a new program for this or that and "the washington post" did this pioneer series about secret america a year or so ago and the sheer number of buildings built in the washington area alone for defense. and the whole thing is so sprawling and so much has now been sent out to private contractors we don't even really know -- >> what the budget really is. >> yeah. >> this is causing interesting dividing lines. if you look at the republican party, it is now splitting. you have ron paul. you have george will. you have other conservatives

that are skeptical of the growing military industrial complex. >> you see that in the republican debate. >> you see it in the republican debates. jon huntsman saying it is time to come home from afghanistan after a decade. we're seeing real dividing lines here. >> dividing lines, at the same time i think the republican candidates see this president, who has of course gotten bin laden and had other foreign policy successes in the war on terror as his one vulnerability on the foreign policy front they see as iran. and so that is why they keep hammering him on iran and there is so much pressure. there was pressure again on the hill just yesterday in a senate foreign relations committee hearing to be tougher and tougher on iran and that's, again, going to be a dividing line in the republican party because the candidates are all saying get tougher on iran but tougher how? what are you going to do? are you really going to gon tack iran and start another war? >> dr. brzenzski, this is all interconnected, this defense spending is interconnected in what you've been concerned about for sometime about social unrest

in america. >> social unjustice. >> right. >> produced by this overweighing of the single sector. the students in tehran we saw ransacking the british embassy, the other day, i bet you thousands of them were playing the game of democracy a year and a half ago when they were committed to democracy. if we push the iranians so hard we're going to fuse iranian nationalism with iranian extremism and i don't think it's in our interest and perpetuates the regime which otherwise might be in the process of disintegration by now. >> dr. brzenzski, dad, thank you so much for coming on the show. smartest guy in the room. you're not supposed to say it. >> no. >> it just exudes. todd, thanks. your article "one nation under arms" is in the new issue of "vanity fair." the week in review is next. great prices. i just wish you could guarantee me they won't be beat. oh, actually... then i'd be like, you rule! and my kids would be like, you rule! i'd be like, yes, i do rule!

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a lot of big, important news going on around the world this week and you won't find a single lick of it in our top three stories of the week. >> for all the rrpbankruptcies we've covered in this grim u.s. economy this gets your attention. >> at number three, anchor, man versus machine. >> we have an announcement in the studio. tom costello we should advise our viewers there is no danger to us. we'd love to make this -- >> nbc nightly news anchor brian williams on live television this week fought a persistent fire

alarm that was accompanied by the verbal warnings of an automated fire marshal. >> you'll forgive us. we have a fire alarm announcement going on here in the studio. >> williams, like jordan in the nba finals blocked out the noise and did his job. >> as we continue to deal with the fire alarm that is stuck we press on, nonetheless. >> john stewart though was unsympathetic to williams' plight. >> not so funny, is it, funny man? >> and number two, old guy fights. a reunion of the canadian football league turned into bingo night at the fights when 37-year-old joecap on the left mixed it up with 74-year-old angelo moscow over a 48-year-old beef. he wrestled for a time under the

name king kong moscow, no, king kong bundy. there he is. he swung his cane. cap swung his fist and it was on. actually it was over pretty quickly. and the number one story of the week? newt on top. >> it's clear that across the country people are saying, you know, i think we need newt gingrich because --. i did no lobbying of any kind. i helped lead the effort to defeat communism. i was charging $60,000 a speech. the odds are very high i'm going to be the nominee. >> newt gingrich was very pleased this week with his position alongside mitt romney atop the republican field. romney generally appeared less pleased. >> i don't know how many hundred times i've said this. this is an unusual interview. all right? let's do it again. >> herman cain, meanwhile, spent the week reassessing his campaign after the accusation of a long affair. >> there was no sex. >> no. >> none. >> no.

>> i talk to a lot of people 61 times. do me a favor. let's not play detective. some people are going to raise some cain. >> all this while texas governor rick perry tried to fight his way back into the race with a bold and inadvertent two-part proposal to raise the voting age to 21 and to change the date of next year's november 6th election day. >> those of you that are -- will be 21 by november the 12th i ask for your support and your vote. those of you who won't be just work hard. >> up next what if anything did we learn today? ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. take up to an extra 15 percent off storewide now through tuesday.

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good morning and welcome to "morning joe" at 6:00 a.m. on the east coast! thee welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned only buttered toast and bread could cause a jock tripper/chrissy snow like condition of confusion. >> it was unbelievable. unbelievable. what did you learn, mika? >> i think i should -- i can't leave you guys alone. i learned that sheila behind this camera rocks. and i'm going to tweet a picture of her and what she does for a living. she is amazing. >> she is. willie, what did you learn? >> reasonable people can disagree about how to butter a piece of toast. in a conventional toaster where you push the button down you don't put the butter on first. plain and simple. man has a toaster from the