job title is not secretary of state right now? this is just a day in the life of international diplomacy at this point. in a world like this, this year, the republican party has decided it's a good idea to pick a president of the united states to deal with all this stuff by having a candidate debate moderated bhan named donald trump. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> wow. mitt romney stood up to donald trump today and refused to participate in trump's ridiculous debate. can you believe that? mitt romney? nah, just kidding. it's romney we're talking about here. romney totally went out of debate. >> i spoke with donald trump earlier today. i indicated we just can't make this debate. >> you're fired. >> i'm coming. if other people are going to go,

particular people ahead of me in the polls, which is most of them. >> why wouldn't you want to come and hang out. >> trump towers is next door. >> it is seriously next door to tiffany's. of course he loves that. >> is newt dead on when he calls himself the republican nominee? >> gingrich surging, iowa, 33%. just 28 days. >> he has benefitted from the weakness in the field. >> we cannot tell anything with this republican electorate. >> he is a mess and we take him? that's why people who don't know newt, conservatives who don't know newt, like newt. >> those of us are terrified he would become the republican nominee. >> newt's problem he is will go along in a straight line, then veer off into space. >> republicans are afraid, if he is the nominee, not only will we see the presidency but we will see less republican ruling the house. >> they seem to have forgotten it all. >> i don't know, what's wrong with you. >> how many times does newt have to teach these people he's bad for the conservative move many?

>> guys who have been here a long time, most of them are not the biggest fans of newt gingrich as a presidential nominee. >> oh special eyesing in understatements. >> politically he's been a train wreck. >> the words that have come from his mouth, the things he has done, would wo have destride him and any other candidates any other year. >> when it comes to whether you put that person up, a habitual liar, what against barack obama. what do you do when a train is going to hit the wall? you get out of the way and you watch it. i can't wait. ♪ ♪ president obama is so confident a victory in his reelection campaign that he spent his precious travel time

today in a state the democratic presidential candidate hasn't won since 1964. and the president has absolutely no hope of winning next year. president obama went to kansas today to commemorate a speech given there in 1910 by teddy roosevelt. the roosevelt speech and obama speech were about rebalancing economic fairness in this country by asking the rich to give a little more to the country that made them rich. polls show that most voters agree with president obama on this proposition. but not so passionately that the president's reelection vote in polls is above 50%. to get above 50%, president obama needs the help of republican primary voters. that's right. the voters who have gone through wild mood swings, supporting preposterous candidates for president. obvious losers. some who had no intention of

even running, like sarah palin and donald trump. these voters pushed michele bachmann to the top of the republican polls, then rick perry, who they began abandoning during his first answer in the first debate, he was in, here on msnbc. those voters then created a polling surge for herman the entertainer. those republican primary voters, collection of right wingers, tea partiers, libertarians and crack pots who continue to embarrass the formerly politically careful republican party, have now surged for what could be the last time before they start voting. and this time, the surge is for candidacy many of us stupidly left for dead months ago. the candidacy that the obama reelection campaign is betting on to guarantee the obama reelection, the deeply flawed candidacy.

of newton leroy gingrich. if they are praying in the obama reelection headquarters tonight, they are praying for newt gingrich to win the republican nomination for president. this is how democrats talk about a republican candidate when they want him to be the nominee. >> what's happening with newt gingrich right now? why is he moving to the front of that field? >> i think he has done very well in these debates. he is very glib. i think he's done it in a way that's interesting. he's done it in a way not by trying to tear any one or two people down but by trying, just to distinguish hitch himself in these debates. you don't need four polls in iowa to tell you he is winning. and i think it is very, very real. >> a new york times cbs hol has answered the obama campaigns prayers. gingrich leading iowa with 31% support among likely

caucus-goers. that's 14 points ahead of romney who polls in a statistical tie with ron paul. perry's 11% is good for fourth. a washington post abc news poll out today confirms gingrich's lead in iowa with 33% support. 15 points ahead of romney and paul. perry polls fourth with 11% in that one. in souj south carolina gingrich leads with 38%, 16 points ahead of romney who is at 22%. rick perry leads those single digits with 9% support. the polls leave the rest of the republican field wondering what to do about gingrich. ron paul decided it was time to attack. >> after he left congress, freddie mac gave gingrich at least $1.6 million. >> 1.6 million, some just before the housing market collapsed.

>> think tank founded by newt gingrich collected at least $37 million from major healthcare companies, group supports individual mandate. >> newt gingrich renewing support for original mandate. key factor of president obama's heal many care law. >> don't ask me to explain this. >> everything that gingrich railed against, when he was in the house. he went the other way when he got paid to go the other way. >> he is demonstrating himself to be the very essence of the washington insiders. >> it is about serial hypocrisy. >> if you are listening very carefully before that last sound bide, did you hear that little telephone ring, very soft telephone ring? that's my new iphone. this th is day one of the iphone. and that moment i did not know how to turn it off. it's been banished from set though and can go on with the show. tonight on cnbc's kudlow report, gingrich underlined his front-runner status by largely ignoring his republican opponents and attacking the president.

>> he represents a hard left radicalism. he is opposed to free enterprise. he is opposed to capitalism. everything which made america great. well have the canned dand of the finest food stamp president in american history, barack obama. i want to help every american have a better future. he wants it make sure he levels americans down so we all have an equally mediocre future. >> joining me now, direct foraol, huffington post howard fineman and also karen finney, who is a former democratic national committee communications director and current columnist for the hill. thank you both for joining me tonight. >> hi, lawrence. >> hey. >> karen be just you and me talking here. >> sure. >> just us. come on. don't worry, republican primary voters, this is way too late for them. they're not watching. gingrich is your dream, isn't

he? >> are you kidding me? would the gods be so generous? i don't know. like you said in the intro, lawrence, if he is the republican nominee, that guarantees barack obama a second term. i would put money on it. no question. >> howard, is it too late for another surge? we got about 30 days. we got christmas coming up. it's going to be hard to get people's attention in that last week. other than that trump debate if enough candidates show up. people are feeling like there is the last surge. >> are you waiting for tim pawlenty to get back in. >> i'm hanging in there. is there still time to file whatever papers he has it file. >> i don't know. i think that newt gingrich, in an amazing set of circumstances, with the weakest republican field in a generation, if not three generations, could be the profoundly wrong guy at precisely the right time. at least for himself.

to take first questions first, i think he can get the nomination. i don't think there is any doubt about that. can he win a general election? probably not. but having covered him for a long time, having covered his rise, having kept in touch with him during his time on k street and watching him in these debates, there is a veracity to newt gingrich. that phrase you quoted in the soundbite there, the finest food stamp president in american history, that kind of phraseology is cat nip for the republican base for sure. ai mean, there is a sophomoric quality to it, young americans for freedom quality to it, that thrills the republican hard core base. whether it can sell to the broader american electorate over a long period of time, over many months, over lots of exposure, i doubt based on the experience of watching him as speaker. he is a great attack guy, great on the defensive lawrence. everybody made fun of him for

saying, i am the nominee. he was shrewdly inviting people to attack him. he loves to be attacked. he loves to go on attack. when he is given leadership position and presidential nominee is a leadership position, that's when he has failed in the past. >> he is certainly getting attacked now and that's what the front-runner gets. but rush limbaugh has done a little bit after flip-flop. he was attacking gingrich months ago and now rush has mounted a defense for gingrich of sorts. let's listen to what rush today say on the radio today. >> there are five hit pieces on newt gingrich today. that come from republican establishment conservative media. it's amazing. i want to call these people and say, let me ask you a question. when this is all over whob would you rather have. and by the way, none of this is to defend newt.

i don't want to be misunderstood on this, folks. none of this is to defend him. this is pure 100% commentary right now. but i feel like calling some of these people, which i would never do. i would never call anybody because i don't actually like talking to people. i would say, do you really at the end of day prefer obama it newt? because that's what you're going to bring off here if you keep this up. >> karen, it's a dream come true, isn't it? rush struggling with the establishment republican media he calls them, like the national review that has editorialized, certainly editorialized against the trump debate that gingrich immediately jumped into and editorialized against. gingrich even meeting with trump. but this is exactly the way the democrats want to see it go, isn't it? >> absolutely. here is the piece that rush is not acknowledging. that is that there are parts of the republican party that would rather have obama than newt

gingrich. if you talk to, we have been under this town a long time, i know you have been here too, you talk to the republicans on the hill, the people who worked with him and know him, they don't trust him. i have talked to people who were there when the whole coup happened, who say he got in and he went crazy. he was drunk with power. he lost focus. he had lots of ideas. he was talking about 2017 when we were trying to talk 1996. i goes who know him know that his volatility is a real liability in a general election. let's say he gets through. his pattern throughout his life, he goes up, skries screws up, goes back down. i think their main fear, also if you look at his record, there is a lot that we don't know or hasn't come out about how he structured organizations. we learned some in terms of freddie and fanny but he has a lot of liabilities that i would say be with the republican establishment and even some of the not so establishment, are just not comfortable with. >> i have heard no more precise

and careful and balanced criticism of newt than i have heard from our own joe scarborough, former republican congressman who worked in the house with newt gingrich. that's exactly what you are talking about. and howard, the criticism contrary to what rush has to say, the attacks are not coming just from the so-called establishment republican media. i want to show you this piece from a group called eye iowians for christian leaders. they th is something they posted on their website today, entitled, newt gingrich ju das. >> we don't always see eye to eye, do we newt? >> no. but we do agree our country must take action it address climate change. >> sitting on the couch with nancy pelosi is the dumbest single thing i've done.

howard, that sort of thing looks a lolt more damaging than an editorial of any sort in the establishment media. >> sure, of course. and it's the evangelicals doing that and also ron paul attacking newt gingrich. ron paul is hardly an establishment character. but newt has put himself in a position here, that everybody's going to have to attack him and i think everybody will attack him from now to election day in iowa. to caucus day in iowa. and that's the kind of environment that is steel cage death match environment in which he thrives in the combat of it. but karen is absolutely right. you talk to people who work with newt. it is funny. most of the people closest to newt, not all, but most of the people who are closest to newt are the ones who privately and sometimes even publicly say, oh, my god, this guy cannot be president of the united states.

i've had that conversation all over town, all weekend. some are coming out and saying it, some aren't. some are going with them. they were at a k street fund-raiser today. some will say, you know what, he might be president. i will cross my fingers and go with him. but it is a small minority. if you look at the people around town there, there is not a large majority with him right now. >> thanks you for being with us. and karen finney, it was just us talking here. don't worry. just us. no one will hear about the dems want newt. thank you for joining us. >> take care. mitt romney gets out of the trump debate. within a bold declaration of principle, like jon huntsman, but with a little white lie about scheduling conflicts. it was pure romney sneaking out of this debate. mark mckenyon is next. and later, why lady gaga was at the white house today. and pokemon is in the rewrite tonight thanks to herman

cain.

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entertainment and highest rated debate will have trouble getting the high ratings with only two can dates participating. the candidate count for the trump debate is as of tonight, two. having accepted, three having rejected the trump invitation. the biggest from mitt romney today and two are undecided. after john mccain came out in opposition to the debate this morning following an angry charge led by george will, editors of the national review, karl rove and others, mitt romney declined to participate in the debate. he did not take the principle stand against trump that ron paul did and jon huntsman did. >> i'm not going to kiss his ring. and i'm not going to kiss any other part of his anatomy. this is exactly what is wrong with politics. it is show business over substance. if he had any courage at all, he would be running for president of the united states of america as opposed to manipulating the process from the outside. >> romney dropped out of debate but he did it in pure romney

style. he apologized to donald trump in the process, claiming he had a scheduling conflict. >> no, i'm not participating this that. i spoke with donald trump earlier today. i indicated we just can't make this debate. we are going to focus on the other two we've got and on some campaigning. >> and what did he say? >> he understood my perspective and wished me well. >> this is how much trump understood the romney perspective. it would seem logical to me that if i was substantially behind in the polls, especially in iowa south carolina and florida, i would be participating in the debate. but i can also understand why governor romney decided not to do it. joining me now is mark mckenyon, adviser to the bush and clinton campaigns, co-founder of no labels and vice chair of

strategies. hi, how are you. >> thank you. how are you. >> you were one of the wisemen who counselled against any participation in the trump crazy debate here. how you are feeling? two acceptances, three rejections and then michele bachmann and rick perry trying to make up their minds. >> i'm encouraged, lawrence. and i'm glad it see romney sort of stand up and i'm glad to see jon huntsman really stand up and stiffen some spine. they are doing what they ought to do. it turned into a carnival, a cirque with us pt barnham donald trump leading in center ring. it is diminishing the brand of the republican candidates in the party. there is recent poll be showing that all of this is doing is diminishing numbers for republicans, particularly among independents. so i've been advocating for some time now, i'm at the jfk school doing a study right now, that will propose there be guidelines put together along the lines of

the presidential commission for general election debates for the primary debates, so that this doesn't happen in the future. it's gone completely out of control. it's chaos and the parties need to rest back some control over the debates. or what we have happen, like we have seen with donald trump. >> mark, did mitt romney really miss an opportunity here it strike a pose, similar it huntsman's or in this situation, where the people who were asking him to do it, like george will and karl rove, yourself, others, it seems to me there would be real reward if the republican party if romney were to do what george will called the presidential thing and say i refuse to participate in this kind of debate. not hide behind a scheduling thing. >> exactly. this is classic romney. it was his ability to do a sister soul moment like bill clinton did and romney should

check his punches. the reason people are responding to newt gingrich is because what they most want in a president someone strong. someone who is bold. strong convictions. that's why they are responding to newt gingrich. that's why they are following off mitt romney. this was real opportunity for him to step up and once again, he kind of ducked. >> i want you to listen to what trump said today. he is happy to throw punches. here he is on fox news today talking about charles, george will and karl rove. those three people. let's listen to this. >> these are three people, i have to tell you, they're hacks. they don't speak for anybody. they have no power. a guy like karl rove. he gave us bush which ultimately gave us obama. >> mark, you and karl rove and me and people who worked in the campaign, you get to call us hacks if you want to. okay. no matter how noble we might claim to have done that kind of work. but george will, a hack?

the leading intellectual of the republican party is being called a hack by donald trump? and then these guys, these candidates are actually going to go into a donald trump event and associate themselves with someone who calls george will hacks. >> if they have any dignity they won't. that's why i'm glad to see most haven't. if they do, there is no party control or mechanism creating sanctioned debates. so somebody like rick santorum who desperate pli needs attention, knows he can do it by participating in the debate. that's how things get out of control. but for donald trump top called charles and george and karl rove haks is really beyond the bail. and when he says they don't have power to speak for anybody, they sfaerk speak for a lot of people. not just republican but grass roots. they know a lot more about the republican party than donald

trump ever will. >> mark mackinnon, thank you very much for joining us today. >> kick it lawrence, thanks. >> thank you. after a week of bad press relations, now, now mitt romney says he will be doing more interviews with reporters. turns out he just means fox news. and what's the story behind the deleted e-mails from romney's time as governor of massachusetts? and later, jon stewart's take on herman cain's take on pokemon. that's in the rewrite. ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. shop our largest diamond store online anytime at zales.com. but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth!

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there. before the gingrich surge, here's how hard it was to get mitt romney to talk to reporters, even fox news reporters. >> we have now interviewed all of the major republican candidates in our 2012, 101 series except mitt romney. he hasn't appeared on this program or any sunday talk show since march 2010. we invited romney again this week but his campaign says he is still not ready to sit down for an interview. >> here is romney today on fox news with a whole new attitude. >> you're going to be with my friend and colleague on chris wallace on fox news sunday. he is very excited about that. a week from sunday. and i'm wondering whether you are doing that because you are worried and the polls aren't looking gas for you. newt gingrich is soaring, you're not, are you worried? >> that's what happens as you know, neil, towards the end of a campaign. we will good on the air with

ads. we are just doing those. we are doing those because the election is getting close. it is time for closing argument. you will see me all over the country. i'll be on tv. i'll be on fox a lot. because you guys matter when it comes to republican primary voters. i want them to hear my message. >> here is richard tonight from the white house. thanks for joining us richard. >> thanks, lawrence. >> i hear they couldn't get limb do interviews and now suddenly he is doing them by satellite from campaign locations, you know, in different states. this is a whole new approach for rom know. >> yeah. but it is not exactly radical. if risk taking is talking to chris wallace then you need to recalibrate your approach to risk. can you dig your way out after former front-runner status. koub al gore and say you are the underdog and get scrappy and try

and take on bill bradley. you could rip off your opponent whole sale like it d to mccain. you can talk to the president all day everyday but going on cable is not the general way for digging your way out of a hole. >> what is the scene inside romney headquarters these days? you get the feeling that they are now just in the day-to-day panic about what the next move is. >> yeah. the problem is they've been running this -- well, really, it is the clinton campaign pr 2008. the electability argument is great for as long as it lasts. when it collapses you've got nowhere left to go. and you could try and create something real on the campaign trail. of course clinton did that in new hampshire. john kerry did it in 2004 in iowa. he had a moment when real emotion and authenticity broke through in a spontaneous event when a guy he pulled out of river if vietnam just showed up. what spontaneous moment could

there be for mitt romney when he's running a cable campaign? what moment of authenticity is there going to be when he is such a robot on the campaign trail? that's the problem they need to grapple with, not, what's th press going to say and how do we get the fox news demographic. >> he waited so long it go on. if news that he is not getting as warm a reception as some of the other candidates have gotten there, especially those who have been employed there. let's listen to more on what was said today. >> yeah. >> many of your close backers and that admire you most, are worried you are not, in your face enough, that you are not being proactive, that you are being deferential, ceo-ish as one put it, not appreciating the magnitude of the threat you face from newt gingrich. >> just wait and see, that's what i tell them. we will make sure that differences in our experience and our perspective and our advice on issues are well aired and people can make a choice. cub sure i will not be quiet.

i'm going to make sure my message is heard loud and clear. speaker gingrich is a friend. i respect lihim but we have ver different life experiences. >> isn't he going to have to come out with hits on gingrich between now and when they start voting. >> yes it looks like he is getting ready to prepare for it. he has to have that connection. one thing you hear out of boston is that they are digging in for a long slog. that's obama in 2008. the different is people stuck with him because they had the emotional connection. they had hope, iowa, string of victories throughout february '08. and there were rallies. people were moved by the candidate and they stuck with him through tougher times. why would people stick with a i go who's apparently biggest claim of moving forward to emotion, to having energy, will be taking down the other guy. he has it say what he stand for

as well as going negative. let's go to another story out of boston. there is a new and full account how governor romney, when he was leaving office in massachusetts, they are allowed by law, administration and people working by him, by massachusetts law, to take their computers with them in effect. if they so choose. and this was chosen by the romney people at an unprecedented level, chosen in such a big way, that it cost the state a hundred thousand dollars in terms of dealing with the paperwork clean-up of the leases of the computers and that sort of thing. it seems to be designed to prevent anyone in the future from getting in there, finding e-mails, memos and all sorts of data and information that would naturally accrue in those kinds of offices. is that the kind of thing that could hurt romney more in the general election than in a primary with other republican candidates who don't seem to go after that sort of thing? >> well, it is a relatively minor hit, i guess.

you could say he wasn't careful with taxpayer's money. he had something to hide. it kind of shows he was, if an career politician, at left a career candidate in that he was preparing so carefully for his presidential run. but it also speaks to this fear, this risk that he had, when you looked at sarah palin e-mails, there wasn't wasn't a whole lot to go out there. there was more out there more damaging it mitt romney. what he said on every side of every majorish 50u aen and he did it on tv. >> nermt on rewrite, herman cain, pokemon and jon stewart. i'll let you guess which one makes the most sense. later, lady gaga went to the white house today. flattered when regenerist beat a $100 cream. flabbergasted when we creamed a $500 cream. for about $30 regenerist micro-sculpting cream hydrates better

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a great day for america, everybody. and it's a sad day for herman cain. over the weekend he dropped out of the republican presidential race. some people are upset, but those people are called democrats. herman cain said he want to spend more time with the wife. not his wife, just -- [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation,

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let me leave you with this. i believe these words came from the pokemon movie. the media pointed that out. i'm not sure who the original author is. so don't go write an article about the point. but it says a lot. about where i am, where i am with my wife and my family and where we are. as a nation. life can be a challenge. life can seem impossible. it's never easy when there's so

much on the line. but you and i can make a difference. there's a mission just for you and me. just look inside and you will find just what you can do. >> and so pokemon exits the republican presidential campaign. herman cain is not exactly in a position to demand a speaking slot at the republican national convention so there is now virtually no chance of pokemon being quoted at the convention. especially if michele bachmann continues to take herself so seriously. i only wish that i could do an insightful rewrite of herman cain's pokemon citations. but my personal truth is, i know next to nothing about pokemon. but luckily jon stewart, the

devoted father of a 5 and 7-year-old, knows more about pokemon than herman cain and me put together. >> you know, herman cain seemed to sense that his supporters needed something to lift his spirits. which is what led to herman cain saying the greatest nine words ever spoken by an american politician. >> i believe these words came from the pokemon movie. i'm going to miss him so. of course, mr. cain performed that almost as well as its original performer, donna summer. ♪ life can be a challenge ♪ life can seem impossible

♪ it's never easy when so much is on the line ♪ [ cheers and applause ] >> that's right. herman cain's farewell address, words of wisdom to his followers and supporters, the final moments of his campaign, are from the closing credits of the pokemon movie. the thing they play to get you the [ bleep ] out of the theater. first of all, it's not even the most inspirational quote from the pocky mon movie. >> i see now the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. it is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are. >> well said. well said, magic japanese cat monster who was created as the result of a genetic experiment and there for has psychic powers that far seed his fellow

pokemon. well said. of course, considering what led cai fl to drop out of race, this is the pokemon he should have quoted. >> i could use pants.fl to drop is the pokemon he should have quoted. >> i could use pants.nfl to dros is the pokemon he should have quoted. >> i could use pants. to drop o is the pokemon he should have quoted. >> i could use pants. [ cheers and applause ] >> to be fair to herman cain, we can't all be as wise as slow king. when he's wearing the shoulder of knowledge. look it up, bitches. ♪ and just let me be [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ your ticket home [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. take an extra 10 percent off storewide now through sunday. with less chronic low back pain. imagine living your life with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine you, with less pain.

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♪ ♪ today lady gaga once again took her fight against discrimination to washington. she was at white house for a private meeting to discuss her new born this way foundation to end bullying and homophobia. lady gaga did not meet with president obama. as we know from earlier, he was in kansas. instead she met with senior advisory jarrett. they have cross had paths before. at an obama fund raise fler september. gaga thanked the president for his work to help the lbgt community and encouraged him to continue working on anti-bullying efforts. in years past lady gaga's appeal to the white house on issues like don't ask don't tell and marriage equality has been far more vocal. >> obama, i know that you're listening. are you listening? we will continue to push you and your administration to bring your words of promise to a reality.

>> joining me now, msnbc contributor who interviewed lady gaga. this does it, you are officially the most versatile msnc contributor in history. you have joined me on this desk. upstairs, i said, who should down me to talk about lady gaga. they said, touray. he has talked with gaga. >> that's right. >> on don't ask don't tell, making that speech publicly to obama, as opposed to today being if the white house, which is the real work of it, talking to the staff, talking to valarie jarrett up close about what her concerns are, that's a big change. >> sure. this is a central issue for gaga throughout her whole career. this is not just a celebrity commenting about an issue they

know nothing about. an actor talking about iraq when they've never about to iraq. she talks about be who you want to be. she is constantly lecturing at gay pride rallies. gay rights val rally she showed there. her latest album is called "born this way." in the chorus she says, god makes no mistakes. you are gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans gender, be who you want to be. that's quite all right. she comes from the old new york lower east side inspired by the drag community there, gay community there as well as elton john, grace jones, madonna. so these concerns are very close to her heart. >> want to play a clip of the president talking about his meeting with lady gaga at a human rights campaign din fler october. >> i also took a trip out to california last week where i held some productive bilateral talks with your leader, lady gaga. she was wearing 16-inch heels. she was 8 feet tall.

it was a little intimidating. >> toure, what do you see as the politics of this? when you see lady gaga doing a network thanksgiving special, she seems to be going in a certain kind of way, there's nothing more main stream than thanksgiving network special. at the same time, she seems to retain renegade status. >> i mean, you're right, she is retaining both those things by doing a sort of, by playing a gayish role even though she is straight. she takes these th from the gay community and does it on this national stage. but this is the biggest pop star in the world right now. so i mean, you know, she can command that stage, get that thanksgiving special, to get a meeting with obama. and i would caution those who would sort of take her and look at her in a very silly way and say, we don't have to pay attention to her because she might wear a meat dress or some sort of thing. she is someone that took the

platform that she has and brought with her, the night of the meat dress, that brought with letter soldiers who had been dismissed from the army because of don't ask don't tell. and i thought that was extremely powerful. and all these other people that show up to do these things and she is bringing soldiers with her. i found that very powerful. she is constantly finding ways to bring politics into her thing. but let me, let me turn the conversation a little tiny bit. because part of the reason we are here is because hillary clinton was in geneva talking to the rest of the world about gay rights as human rights and human rights as gay rights and lecturing the rest of the world. isn't that sort of hypocritical for her to be wagging for the administration, to be wagging a finger at the rest of the world, when the administration is not yet fully under support of marriage equality. and as long as they are not, then we are relegating gays and lesbians to second class status in america. >> but she is, and the president is talking