watch buddy roemer say he agrees with a progressive from vermont on that singular issue. i am inspired, i hope you are too, as much as the mess is out there. that very mess is what drives the momentum for the change that we are all pursuing. i am dylan ratigan and chris matthews starts right now. hooting newt. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews, back in washington. leading off tonight, nailing newt. newt gingrich is finding out what it means to be the front-runner. newt's under siege from rivals like mitt romney and rick perry. perry's hitting him for his three marriages, believe it or not, and perry's hitting him for changing positions and religions. and now a conservative pastor out in iowa who's backing santorum is running a video calling newt the kim kardashian of the gop, and also attacking his serial marriages and his conversion to catholicism.

with two debates in the next seven days, the attacks against gingrich are going ballistic. but republican voters are falling for newt, because they see him as a gladiator. he can counterpunch, and his supporters are betting he can survive the onslaught. are they right? then, there aren't that many house republicans who endorse newt gingrich, but we'll talk to one of them about his chances -- newt's chances of winning iowa. georgia congressman jack kingston. he joins us tonight. and dumping trump. that debate drump druonald trum to host has been rejected by five republican presidential candidates. only gingrich and santorum are in. did the clown show just lose a ring master? and president obama's fierce defense against republican charges of appeasement proves once again that if you underestimate this president, you may do so at your peril. finally, let me finish tonight what line from friedrich

nichei, that might be a guide to gingrich. we start with newt gingrich under siege. can he be stopped? chuck todd is the white house correspondent, john harris is editor in chief of politico. we've got the heavyweights tonight. here's the question. a new fox poll of republicans nationwide now shows gingrich at 36, way ahead of where romney's ever been nationally. romney tucked down below that 25%. he never gets above at 23%. ron paul, the libertarian, is at 12, and he's pretty much irrelevant to this debate as to who the nominee's going to be. chuck todd, i have a theory. the more they attack -- i was going to call him nichei, because he is, the better he they attack newt, the better he looks. >> that's the rush limbaugh theory. that's what he said this week. the more establishment attacks him, and it's been brutal -- >> even a broken clock is right twice a day, talking about rush. >> you've got george will, david brooks, peggy noonan, then you've had member of congress.

there's a whisper campaign, and now it's sort of a megaphone campaign. now we've got the super pac. and that is the risk here, right? which is, if you don't knock him out now, what does not kill him will only make him stronger, as this marches on. so that's why this is a risk/reward strategy. i think the romney people have no choice. they have to figure out -- they can't let him get out of steam ahead of iowa, but, boy, this comes with risk, because iowa is a place where whoever is the perceived conservative has the upper hand. >> isn't this almost definitional, john harris? if you get into a boxing match with another guy, you're making him into a boxer. if you start punching him, you prove every time you land a punch, he can take a punch. he's rocky, still standing there. >> chris, this would apply for both candidates. i can't think of any examples in modern times where somebody has gotten a major party nomination without a fight, without a brawl, without some turbulence along the way.

nobody coasts to it. not even george w. bush came closest in 2000. there's always a fight. what you say is true of gingrich, that he's going to be stronger if he surmounts these withering attacks, is also true of romney, who has looked weak. if he can somehow find his spine, come back, he's going to be much more formidable. >> but you're being very fair here. aren't you being too fair in a sense that saying that both of these guys equally enjoy the gladtorial aspect of politics? >> no, no, no. >> romney doesn't like this stuff. >> mitt romney's fatal weakness to date has been that he hasn't shown that he can really win a barroom brawl. he won't win the nomination unless he proves that he can do it. i do think with respect to gingrich, you know, chuck mentioned, he's under attack from the social conservative right on the ground out in iowa. he's also under attack sort of from above the elite of the party in washington and new

york, under ordinary rules, no candidate could surmount this kind of -- survive this kind of challenge. what gingrich has to bet is that these are the conventional rules do not apply, this is not a conventional year, this is not a conventional moment and an unconventional candidate can prevail. although really, on the books, he's got a lot of what would ordinarily be fatal weaknesses. >> you know, there used to be a phrase in the rules of boxing, you don't hit below the belt. i'm not sure where the belt is anymore. look at some of these attacks on gingrich right now. the first attack on gingrich was religion yesterday in that romney add, highlighting romney's consistency in his faith. take a look at this surprisingly, i think, serious mistake by romney, venturing into the issue of religion. >> i think people understand that i'm a man of steadiness and constancy. i don't think you're going to find somebody who has more of those attributes than i do. i've been married to the same woman for 25 -- oh, excuse me, i'll get in trouble, for 42 years. i've been in the same church my entire life. i worked at one company, bain,

for 25 years, and i left that to go off and help save the olympic games. if i'm president of the united states, i will be true to my family, to my faith, and to our country, and i will never apologize for the united states of america. >> you know, a lot of people convert from one religion to another, we do that in a free society. i think it's very unfortunate for someone who's spent two years of his life converting people as a missionary to make fun of conversion. i think part of a free expression of religion comes the right to, if you will, change religions. now for the below-the-belt version of what we just saw. an iowa pastor who is backs rick santorum is sending out a blast message for voters, urging them to watch this inflammatory -- well, we say it's an inflammatory video attacking newt gingrich for his three marriages. let's watch. >> newt married the mistress, of course. but after a while, he got bored, cheated on her, and ran off with ooh mistress. but don't worry, this mistress was different. she was a devout catholic who not only showed newt a good

time, she also convinced him to convert to catholicism. oh, you didn't know any of this? oh, yeah, callista's quite the missionary, first lady material, all the way. mothers and fathers of america, newt and calista are the last role models we want our sons and daughters looking up to. seriously, i can't stand barack obama, but at least he doesn't trade in his wives like used cars. >> wow. john harris, your reaction. will people find that an indecent punch below the belt, or will they say, i didn't know all that about the guy, or what? >> i think they'll -- >> that's all true, just nastily delivered. >> some, and some people, there'll be a backlash. i think the one thing about newt gingrich, he is not an unknown figure. he is not introducing himself to the electorate the way that michele bachmann was or even rick perry was. he's well known, both his strengths and his baggage. so it's a question in my mind of how much these particular

attacks will break skin. >> i wonder how much people care about the past when they're so worried about the present and the future. most people voting are economically insecure, worried about our place in the world, and it seems to me if you start focusing on something 20 years ago, you risk looking like jimmy carter attacking ronald reagan for where he was on medicare 20 years before. >> remember, big elections when there are big issues on the table, the personal stuff goes away. i don't think, whether it's religion, and you know, i don't -- in mitt romney's defense, remember, he said at the cnbc debate, he wasn't really talking about -- he wasn't talking about newt gingrich at the time. newt gingrich was still sort of an afterthought to him when he made that statement. so i think -- >> you mean, when he said the same marriage -- the same religion? >> yes, it was done during that cnbc debate at the time, but they weren't aiming -- what they're doing is an excerpt from that debate. >> well, they should have put it out there. >> they made the decision to put that out there. i think they want to believe that the family stuff is a big

deal to evangelicals. but i think you're right in this sense. i don't think voters this time are going to worry about the personal works. if newt gingrich undoes him, is undone, he's going to have done it to himself in some form. >> in realtime. >> in realtime. and i think the romney strategy is hoping you throw all of this stuff at the wall, you hope at some point he cracks. you know, gingrich every once in a while, in his past, when you've gotten under his skin, he cracks, you know? he gets upset about air force one, and that's really the strategy -- >> okay -- >> -- gets personal. >> get him upset and let him show his tantrums. >> right. >> but it's so familiar, these attacks. i mean, i thought i knew that was coming, you know? it almost becomes a joke, it shows your pathetic nature. and i just wonder whether they're going after him about his marriages, which are pretty well know, his conversion to

another religion is pretty well known. to hit him on those personal chops after they've happened in the past, i wonder if that upset romsny -- i mean, upsets newt. i don't think it does. i think he goes, go ahead, make my day. >> but these are just peep pie a mosaic that romney and his allies are trying to lay down. and newt is too unstable, too undisciplined, too unpopular, he cares too much of history. so i don't think that the bit about his marriages or about his religion will be central to any kind of sustained attack. i do think the broader attack will be, we've got a great opportunity to beat barack obama and gingrich is just too flawed a man, too flawed a messenger to be the person for that job. that's the case mitt romney's going to make and we'll find out over the next month whether people find it convincing. >> i'm convinced that the one way -- not convinced, right now i believe the one way that the

romney people can open up newt gingrich is to look at -- is to get the republican voter in these caucuses and primaries to think about how the white house may have thought or may believe that they can open up newt gingrich like a cantaloupe. that you're serving up to the white house exactly what they want, a guy who's deeply flawed, who won't even give the president a contest. >> or worse, or worse, you cost republicans the house and the senate. >> yeah. >> they believe -- look, the republicans believe in this town they may lose -- the president may get re-elected, but they cake comfort in the fact that they're about 70% confident they'll re-elect the house majority, and they're about 60% confident they're going to get the senate majority, as long as the nominee doesn't -- >> doesn't mess it pup. >> and the knock on gingrich will be, some of these longtime insiders are saying, hey, you already re-elected one democratic president, bill clinton in '96, don't do it again. >> i think that's the argument. >> but the polls don't indicate

that that's a fact yet. >> i think that's the big challenge over the christmas and holidays, right now between now and the third of january, is to convince that caucus gore, that primary voter, whoa, you may want to vote for a guy who hates like you do, who can throw shots like you can, newt, but be careful, this guy can't play defense, he can only play offense. thank you, chuck todd for coming on. thank you, todd harris. coming up, what is it about newt gingrich that a good number of his former house colleagues simply don't like? we'll ask one of the few members of congress that supports him, former congressman jack kingston. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪ [ man #1 ] i was fascinated by balsa wood airplanes since i was a kid. [ man #2 ] i always wondered how did an airplane get in the air. at ge aviation, we build jet engines. we lift people up off the ground to 35 thousand feet. these engines are built by hand

with very precise assembly techniques. [ man #3 ] it's gonna fly people around the world. safely and better than it's ever done before. it would be a real treat to hear this monster fire up. [ woman ] i think a lot of people, when they look at a jet engine, they see a big hunk of metal. but when i look at it, i see seth, mark, tom, and people like that who work on engines every day. [ man #4 ] i would love to see this thing fly. it's a dream, honestly. there it is. awesome. that's so cool! yeah, that was awesome! [ cheering ] i wanna see that again. ♪ well, anti-incumbent fever has reached an all-time high in the country. according to a new gallup poll, three out of four voters now say that most members of congress don't deserve to be re-elected.

that's 76%. and that's the highest number gallup has measured in the 19-year history of asking that question. people don't like incumbents. but when asked about their own member of congress, the old question, voters are much more generous. 53% say their congressman or woman deserves to be re-elected versus just 39% who say they don't. well, you only get to vote on your own, so i guess it doesn't matter that you're hateful of all of congress, because you only get to vote on one of them, yours, and that person looks like they've got a marginal advantage here. we'll be right back. wow. nice place. yeah. [ chuckles ] the family thinks i'm out shipping these. smooth move. you used priority mail flat rate boxes. if it fits, it ships for a low, flat rate. paid for postage online and arranged a free pickup. and i'm gonna track them online, too. nice. between those boxes and this place, i'm totally staying sane this year. do i smell snickerdoodles? maybe. [ timer dings ] got to go. priority mail flat rate shipping at usps.com. a simpler way to ship.

welcome back to "hardball." newt gingrich served as speaker of the house for four years in the 1990s, so you might think he would have support from the legislative branch in his bid for the presidency, but many republicans are openly assistancing themselves from gingrich, and many more tell reporters off the record how unenthusiastic they really are about the prospects of newt gingrich returning to a position of power in washington. perhaps most telling, of the members of congress who have

issued endorsements, 55 have given them to mitt romney. only 8 have carbon to back already newt gingrich according to "roll call." one of newt's backers joins us now, a fellow republican from georgia, congressman jack kingston. i've got a lot of respect for you and thank you for coming on the show. let's take a look at a couple members of former and current members of congress who have worked with newt gingrich and aren't so excited about him as a candidate as you are. >> there's a lot of candidates out there. i'm not inclined to be a supporter of newt gingrich's having served under him for four years and experienced his leadership. i found his leadership lacking. >> most of us are terrified to death that he would become the republican nominee. we know he has these visions of grand grandiosity. >> as far as governing, he's too erratic, he's too self-centered. the time he was speaker, there was one crisis after another and

they were almost all self-inflicted. >> what do you make of these critiques, congressman? >> i certainly respect their point of view, chris, but i have to point out that when the dark days of newt's campaign happened in may, a lot of members of congress kind of left the ship. and as you know, members of congre congress, generally speaking, are cautious about who they endorse. because you embrace a candidate whose candidatesy implodes and it reflects on you and then you look pretty silly. members of congress tend to hold back and look cautious anyway. and what newt did in may when he said, okay, these fair weather friends who were going to line up behind me have left me. i'm going to go straight to the voters and i'm going to go talk to the people of new hampshire and iowa and south carolina. i'm going to do the debates and then he started doing that and it was a comeback charlie. he has come back very hard. he's shown a lot of character, i think, in terms of his reserve, his staying power, if you will. and now what we're hearing and what i'm getting on the floor of the house and joe barton and mike burgess and phil gingrey, people are coming up to us and

saying, you know what, i want to take a second look. tell me more about newt, when can i meet him, is he coming back to the hill to talk to us? >> but if you go hire his staffer, chief of staffer to work, you would ask around what he or she was like to work with? and here we're getting people who don't say -- it's not that they hold back judgment as you say, they offer judgment, and it's negative. how do you explain that? what's their motive in attacking him, even if he's not going to be the nominee? >> i understand sue molinari and peter king are from the northeast, where we don't do very well in new york city, in general. and sometimes it's in the congressman's district's interests not to support somebody like newt. mitt romney is the safer candidate. >> tom coburn. >> coburn is an outspoken guy, regardless. but i'm going to give you that one, chris. i understand that. but let me say this. when newt came to power as speaker, we had deficit projections of $2.7 trillion for the next decade. after four years, we had

surpluses of $2.3 trillion. unemployment went to 4.6%. welfare reform was accomplished in which childhood poverty was decreased and two-thirds of the people on welfare got jobs. now, this was done under a bipartisan administration, working with bill clinton, and sometimes fighting bill clinton very famously and very openly. and yet, despite the chaos, the achievements and the accomplishments speak for themselves. and that's why i think he's doing so well among republican voters who have been watching this whole process for six months, tuning in on every single debate and saying, debate after debate, newt gingrich seems to be the winner. >> well, one of the people who watch newt in action is me, congressman, back when i was the speaker, tip o'neill. i watched a couple things, which i think are objectively wrong about him. there are some strengths. he's obviously very smart. and in many ways, he brought the republicans into power. but lack ook at how he did it. he called democratic leaders corrupt, that was his word.

he likes that word, "corrupt." he organized special -- what do they call them -- special sessions in the evening, special orders, where he went after the democrats as traitors. his tactics are so vicious. is every democrat you don't like corrupt? are democrats traitors? i know the ends justify the means sometimes? do you justify them there? the means he used to get in power? >> no, i don't. and i think his style has calmed down a little bit, and i think it was too hard charging in the day. and chris, i want to point out, i'm one of the few members of congress who has sponsored a bipartisan piece of legislation and worked on it with dick durbin and herb kohl in the senate, it was signed into law, the agriculture appropriation bill, about a month ago. so i believe in bipartisanship, particularly in split government. and while newt sometimes does have a bombastic style, you still have to remember that balancing the budget, decreasing the unemployment numbers and welfare reform, medicare reform, contract with america, all of these achievements were done with bill clinton's signature as

president. so despite the rough and tumble style, accomplishments were made. think about this, would newt gingrich ever have left town and gone to indonesia while a super committee was working on deficit reduction? we would not do that. he would be a very on-hands president. there's some good and some bad in that, i understand. but still, i think he's a guy of action, which is what the voters are looking for. >> he would have gone to indonesia if he got to ride in the front of the plane. but that's another case, where he had a tantrum where he had to ride in the back. i agree with you, nobody's perfect, nobody's totally evil. i have a couple of candidates for that situation, but i won't bring them up right now. one's dick cheney, of course. thank you. joining us right now for a look at newt's chances in iowa is john heilemann, an msnbc political analyst. mitt romney has unleashed his dogs, his surrogates, john sununu and jim talent to attack

newt gingrich. if he doesn't do it himself, he's going to look like pawlenty, a guy that was a wuss when he's expected -- will this guy be a pawlenty this saturday night at this debate, john heilemann? >> we'll see, chris. i think the folks up in boston know the truth of what you're saying. i think they're knowing that if this narrative is going to get changed and if they're going to hold newt back and break this momentum that he has right now, it is going to have to be mitt romney that does it. i went to see romney this morning up in cedar rapids. he gave a very standard fine performance in a factory there, talking to a bunch of people , town hall setting. there was only one moment where he singled out gingrich, which was on the question of the paul ryan entitlement reform plan, where he criticized him very mildly. but you could argue he was holding his fire until tomorrow

night when the eyes of the world and particularly the eyes of iowa will be on him. we'll see. this will be a very, very big moment, both for newt gingrich and mitt romney to see how he responds. >> i heard part of that speech, how his dad was part of a motor company. very soft stuff. hardly the pre-gaming or buildup if you're going to be going after a guy's jugular. >> i agree. it's funny, chris. it's like this has been -- you know, one of the things that makes gingrich appealing to base voters in the republican party is the fact he think not only can he possibly beat barack obama, but that he kind of beat him up and bloody him and give him a black eye. they find that lacking in mitt romney. now romney will have to demonstrate that in spades right now. this is why this is a great opportunity for romney. if he can now take gingrich on, he not only can break gingrich's momentum, but he can demonstrate to conservative voters that he is capable of taking on a dragon, taking on a big guy like newt gingrich, and therefore,

like barack obama. but it is like the -- it is the make or break challenge for him. if he can't do this, he'll fall short in two different ways on the same front, i think. >> in writing your book about this, you might think this is the fact how newt gingrich got to be powerful in the house. he took over the house leadership, really, the nice guys, like bob michael before him wouldn't go for the jugular. you know, even moderates like lynn martin of illinois said they ended up voting for gingrich for power, knowing how nasty he is, because they were tired of losing. >> yeah. 40 years ago out of power. as you know, chris, back at that time, the idea that republicans would ever take control of the house of representatives, although everybody liked people like bob michael, this was a guy who was never going to lead. they need to have had an insurgent energy. gingrich was the insurgent energy. he was sometimes the nasty energy, but he was also the successful energy that made it possible for them to do what many people thought was unthinkable at that time. and i think that's one of the things that for a lot of republicans, they remember that, and they're willing to forgive gingrich a lot of sins because

of that huge signal historic accomplishment on behalf of the party. >> this guy's geronimo. i think it's geronimo. i don't think geronimo's a peacemaker, a dealmaker. i don't think he's going to take the hill. thank you, john heilemann. up next, remember rick perry? he's so desperate to get his campaign back on track, he's attacking gays and lesbian. by the way, mr. perry, governor, there are nine members of the supreme court, not eight. i wonder if you could pass the citizenship test right now. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪ i think i'm falling

♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. shop our largest diamond store online anytime at zales.com. is to dig right in. but as his dentist, i know that to do that, he needs to use the brush more dentists use. oral-b. trust the brush more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. life opens up when you do. by the hand-selected wood trim... the 38 1/2 inches of legroom... and the reclinable, heated napa leather seats inside the jeep grand cherokee,

just wait until we tell you about the heated and ventilated front seats. ♪ ♪

back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. first up, lesson learned? well, definitely not the right lesson in this case. remember this week, we showed an ad released by rick perry's campaign that in addition to blaming president obama for a, quote, war on religion, it also slams letting gays serve openly

in the military. well, let's watch a portion of the perry ad. >> i'm not ashamed to admit that i'm a christian, but you don't need to be in the pew every sunday to know that there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military, but our kids can't openly celebrate christmas or pray in school. as president, i'll end obama's war on religion and i'll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage. >> well, no surprise that the ad sparked backlash from people on both sides of the political divide. and even garnered close to 500,000 "dislikes" on the campaign's you tube channel. and apparently that's what really got to them. the campaign's response, they disabled the "like and dislike" icons for the newest campaign lineups. but still, perry stuck to his response, and true to form, his response was not without a snafu. >> do you really believe he's

waging a war on religion? >> i do when you see his appointment of two -- from my perspective -- inarguably activist judges. whether it was um, um, not the mayor -- >> sonia sotomayor and kagan are both activist judges. whether it's about prayer in school, whether you can celebrate christmas. those are decisions that should be left to the states. >> oh, god. at least he knew what the name rhymed with. as i mentioned earlier, perry also referenced the fact that we have eight supreme court justices. i guess he had a brain freeze before thinking of the other one. and finally, how should a presidential candidate that

hasn't been invited to any of the recent presidential debates know he's hit bottom? ask buddy roemer whose campaign currently looks more like a one-man show. there's an account of his recent attendance at an occupy rally up in new hampshire. "the rally was scheduled to start at 6:00, so roemer arrived at the park 15 minutes early with two of his aides. the temperature was below freezing. finally, at 6:15, roemer's director of scheduling looked at his watch and realized his boss' parking meter was about to run out. roemer had already received four $20 tickets in the past month. fearful of more tickets, his staff had taken to pausing its work every two hours to refill the meter. governor, we better deal with your car now, the scheduling director said. okay, said the governor, let's call it a night. there's no audience here anyway." well, not quite the image you usually associate with a presidential campaign, is it? i think calling it a night might apply to the roemer campaign itself. up next, from the sideshow

to the clown show, now with no ringmaster, donald trump has been unable to attract more than a pair of contestants to his december 27th debate. he's got newt and he's got santorum and none of the rest. and that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪ when your chain of supply goes from here to shanghai, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ chips from here, boards from there track it all through the air, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ clearing customs like that hurry up no time flat that's logistics. ♪ ♪ all new technology ups brings to me, that's logistics. ♪ long-lasting, too. yeah, i could really use this silverado. i'm a big hunter. oh, what do you hunt? deer. fish. fantastic. ♪ this holiday, chevy's giving more.

now qualified buyers can get 0% apr for 72 months on a 2011 chevy silverado. or 0% apr financing for 60 months plus no monthly payments until spring. ♪

and what it doesn't cover can cost you some money. that's why you should consider an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan... insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. all medicare supplement insurance plans can help pay... some of what medicare doesn't, so you could save... thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket expenses. call now for this free information kit and medicare guide. if you're turning 65 or you're already on medicare... you should know about this card -- it's the only one of its kind endorsed by aarp; see if it's right for you. all medicare supplement plans let you keep your own doctor, or hospital that accepts medicare. there are no networks and no referrals needed. help protect yourself from some of what medicare doesn't pay...

and save up to thousands of dollars in potential... out-of-pocket expenses with an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan... insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. call this toll-free number on your screen now... for this free information kit, including this... medicare guide and customized rate quote. i'm amanda drury with your cnbc market wrap. stocks closing near their session highs with the dow jones industrials soaring near 185 points. the s&p jumping 20 and the nasdaq climbing by 50 points. so a pretty positive reaction today to the results of the big economic summit in brussels. 26 of the 27 eu nations agreed to pursue tighter fiscal integration, but britain blocked proposed treaty amendments after it failed to win some key concessions.

back here at home in the states, consumer sentiment improved for the fourth month in a row. consumers are feeling better about the economy overall, but still skittish about their own personal finances. and the trade deficit narrowed to its lowest point in ten months. unfortunately, though, that was due in part to slower import and export activities. a couple of stocks to mention for you. ge gaining after boosting its quarterly dividend by two cents a share. but chemical giant dupont skidded after slashing its demand in end user markets. that's it from cnbc. have a great friday, everybody. we're first in business worldwide. back over to "hardball." back to "hardball." is donald trump's political clown show finally coming to an end? for months, we've watched candidate after candidate making

the pilgrimage to donald trump. but all but two have said no to the debate later this month. only newt gingrich and rick santorum have said they're coming. it's not exactly the blockbuster he'd hoped for. michael steele was chairman of the republican national committee and is an analyst and mark halperin joining us. i guess there is a shame factor, there were so many hoots from the crowd that people running for president decided it wasn't really fitting for them to show such support for someone who is not really, in any way, in the political process. >> well, chris, i think the other factor for a lot of these candidates is they don't want to do an unpredictable debate that close to the caucuses. they've got two more debates in iowa before the trump debate is scheduled. and i think the risk of candidates like mitt romney getting involved in an unpredictable thing with an unpredictable moderator wasn't something they wanted to take on. >> let me ask about how this got

started. trump is a brilliant showman, obviously very good at business. talk about how many times a billionaire, once or seven times. once is pretty amazing to me. if he's -- what is he up to? he decided to announce for president -- think about the gamut he pulled. that got him at the top of the poll from your party. a guy from outside the process, with no political -- number one. how does he win at this game? we're talking about him tonight, but something broke in his game this week after pushing this thing and pushing this thing, it finally broke against him. they're not showing up. >> i think what mark said is exactly what it is. you're talking about going on in an unpredictable environment, five days before the first votes in iowa. a lot of these folks are going to not take that risk. newt and rick santorum said, look, this was a great opportunity for us to go out and continue the discussion, and for newt, especially, to continue to build that momentum going into iowa. the interesting thing for me, though, was what santorum in his

press release earlier this week said, i think, is dead-on. look, you wanted to be around trump. you go to new york, you want to kiss his ring, get the photo op sw , get the pizza, and now we wants to have you at the table where you run away from it. if he had done this in september, they'd all do it. i think you would have gotten a different response from the crowd. >> the stakes are too high now? >> i think mark is dead-on about that. >> this morning, trump had particularly strong criticism of one of the people who's not showing up, michele bachmann, who said she wouldn't attend. let's listen to his shot at her. >> you know who i'm very disappointed, michele bachmann. she'd come up to see me four times! four times. she'd call me, she'd ask me for advice. she said, i should be her vice presidential, you know -- if she wins, she'd like to think about me for the vice presidency. >> it better work. >> and then after all of that, she just announced she's not going to do the debate. it's unbelievable! it's actually called loyalty. how do you do that? i mean, it's amazing to me. >> john, i think the two donalds

are using the same hairdresser there. did you catch that? a shot of our buddy, imus. just kidding! let me ask you, mark, you're the top guy around here in terms of understanding this thing. is he going to be a factor, as we go further in this process? is trump going to come in here, possibly as a third party guy. say if romney wins the nomination, a moderate republican, a mainstream republican, rather than newt, is there an opening for trump to go third party? seriously? >> i don't think there is in terms of actually happening, because of getting on the ballot, i don't think he'd be the americans elect nominee, and i think getting on the ballot is something that is pretty burdensome. i think he could do it if he wanted to, but i don't think he wants to go through that. i think trump would want to run if he thought he could win. he's pretty good at gaming the system to be part of the debate, where he's a formal candidate or not. i do think that his issue of china isn't being talked about very much by the candidates, and that is still a huge sleeper

issue for the republican candidate in this race. >> and what's his argument? >> that china -- the united states doesn't do enough to have leverage with china, that china economically is making the united states a victim, and the chinese know it and they laugh at us. i have found from hillary clinton who has talked about it as an issue in this state and elsewhere four years ago, and when trump talked about it, i found tons of residence on that issue. that's a hugely resident issue. but that alone i think makes trump's capacity, maybe not trump himself, but trump's sense of where the country is hat something the republicans, at least, can pick up on. >> well, it's hard to argue with your banker. as long as the united states owes billions of dollars to china, it's very hard to be mouthy with them. so what we're doing now seems to be more aggressive than before. we're putting bases in australia, we're starting to, i don't want to say encircle, because that gets them strategically concerned, but we are trying to check them a bit. >> there is a check process going on by the u.s. and i think trump on that issue

wants to make sure that in this presidential debate, particularly when you get to the table next year, when it's the republican nominee and the president, that this is, if not front and center, it's pretty daggone close to it. and he's going, i think, carry a lot of weight and sway over the next few months, and his endorsement, again, everybody went to new york for it. so it means something. and i think the fact that if this debate goes off at the end of the year or not is not so much the point. the point is that he's going to be at the table. he's going to have something to say. he's got an issue that he wants addressed. and like you said, the banker may be -- we may be looking at our banker as china, but in terms of the gop. >> he should stay off the birther junk and focus on the stuff that matters strategically in this country. i think the birther stuff -- >> i don't think he's going to go down that route. >> he's done it more recently than he should have. here's an incredible response trump had to a fox news interview just this afternoon talking about president obama and whether heeserved credit for the death of osama bin laden. let's watch trump in action,

national security expert trump. here he goes. >> let's talk about osama bin laden. i mean, he gets a lot of credit for that. look, he happened to be sitting in the oval office and the generals called up and they said, we have him. and he says who, and they said osama bin laden. here's his choices, he has three. leave him alone, take him out with a missile, or go in and get him. if you're president, if i'm president, if anybody's president, the first thing you say, leave him alone, is out. we're going to go get them. so the first thing we forget, or you take him out with a missile or take him out the way we did. so we took him out. why is he getting credit for that? >> i don't understand why he's making fun of his success. mark halperin, why do you make fun of the president's call to not go in with a drone attack, which might be messy, going in man on man, doing it the traditional way of faces down the enemy and making sure we had him and identified him, making it clear that we'd accomplished

there, seemed to be the tougher call and he made it. he should get credit for that, i think. >> well, this is a broader issue in michael steele's party than just donald trump, which is, we live in a time where if you oppose president obama and you're a republican, you don't give him credit for anything. you don't give him credit for even something so in the national interest, such an emotional issue for america. and i think that's a mistake. whether you consider trump qualified to talk about the issue or not, there's plenty of things the president has accomplished in foreign policy where republicans are just reflexively opposed to him. and i think that's a bad idea politically. i think it cheapens our politics and i think it's a bad idea in terms of the country. >> i mean, this isn't the redskins against dallas where you just always dump on the other team. at some time, you've got to show some brains and some generosity of heart and brain and he didn't there. you've got to give this president credit for the tough call and everybody around him does give him credit. mark halperin? >> if i could real quickly, and i think this one you have to. because the president did what he need to do, got the job done, and republicans can't take that away from him. >> thank you, sir, thank you, as

always, michael steele, thank you, mark halperin. have a nice weekend. up next, when president obama responded to phoney charges of appeasement by saying, ask osama bin laden about that, he destroyed his critics and reminded the rest of us not to underestimate him personally. why haven't we seen that side of this president more often? this is "hardball," only on msnbc. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee.

i'm ending my six-week book tour around the country for "jack kennedy: elusive hero" next week monday at the 92nd street y in new york. that's on tuesday, by the way. i'll be back here in washington at the national archives. it's been an honor to encourage people to get out there and bring back a great american hero this country. the true story of jack kennedy's heroism is a gift we all need now, even if we don't read it, we need it. we'll be right back.

[ male announcer ] vicks nyquil cold and flu. the nighttime sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep you ever got with a cold...medicine. ♪ our machines help identify early stages of cancer, and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor, i'm sure i could take something positive away from that. [ jocelyn ] my name is jocelyn. and i'm a cancer survivor. [ woman ] i had cancer. i have no evidence of disease now. [ woman #2 ] i would love to meet the people that made the machines. i had such an amazing group of doctors and nurses, it would just make such a complete picture of why i'm sitting here today.

♪ [ man ] from the moment we walk in the front door, just to see me -- not as a cancer patient, but as a person that had been helped by their work, i was just blown away. life's been good to me. i feel like one of the luckiest guys in the world. ♪ ♪ and just let me be [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ your ticket home [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. take an extra 10 percent off storewide now through sunday.

president obama is giving republicans a strong reminder that he's not to be underestimated andhe did it in a response that he's not an apiecer. >> the top al qaeda leaders, whether they engage in apiecement or whoever is left out there asks them about that. >> that's pretty cold. cynthia tucker is a pulitzer prize winner and what do you think of that cynthia?

clint eastwood kind of comment there? >> the republicans have been saying this sort of thing about the president for the last couple of years. he's weak, he apologizes, mitt romney is the apology tour. and usually the president just let's it roll off his back, doesn't respond. but the campaign has been joined. he's tough. he went right in there after them and he's not going to let any of these comments pass without taking him on. >> he's kind of cool there. i wonder the people that watch this program, most of them are looking for that. >> absolutely. and this is what john kerry actually never did during the campaign when the republicans challenged his service in vietnam. this is an area where strength overseas, it's an area that they traditionally don't have an advantage.

barack obama has an advantage. >> he also said the drone strike -- and i don't agree with it, he doubled our forces in afghanistan. he kept the war in iraq going for most of his term. it's only now ending. a ten-year war now. doubling a surge strategy. >> it has been -- >> and this china thing -- we're starting to push the chinese a bit. >> it's very difficult for the republicans to take barack obama on on foreign policy because he's had so many successes. you can disagree with him about drone strikes, but he has taken out far more terrorists and drone strikes. >> this is a smart republican. this is chris christie warning the gop candidates not to discount obama in an appearance here just last month. let's watch the governor of new jersey. >> anybody who underestimates the president over the next year, underestimates him at their own peril.

he gets more energized, animated, he's off the prompter. he's seemingly speaking from his gut. that's the person that the people elected in 2008. that's the guy. >> that's a guy talking about a guy. testosterone in that room right there. >> that's right. one of the things that people loved about chris christie -- i didn't -- but he had the motive ability. >> none of your business? >> he's gone from being the professor in the white house and the law professor and scholarly and the republicans the second job. he's over there. he kept the palestinian state for being unnamed. >> absolutely. for heaven's sakes, in israel he's regarded of a friend of the

united states. he's also -- >> you mean a friend of israel? >> as a friend of israel. absolutely. he's also stepping up the pressure on iran in case republicans want to tackle him on that. and he is back on cue with domestic issues, taking it to him over middle-class issues. again, the campaign has been joined. >> he's got him over a barrel, by the way, on payroll taxes. any way, thank you. steve mcman. >> and cynthia tucker, have a nice weekend. referring to newt gingrich. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.

♪ it was the best day [ whooping ] ♪ it was the best day ♪ it was the best day ♪ ♪ it was the best day ♪ 'cause of you we make a great pair. huh? progressive and the great outdoors!

we make a great pair. right, totally. that's what i was thinking. all kinds of vehicles, all kinds of savings. multi-policy discounts from progressive. call or click today. let me finish tonight with this. what does not kill him makes him stronger. if that line proves correct, god help the republicans trying to put away newt gingrich. the more mitt romney and former speaker of the house about his past, the more it makes him into the man to beat right now. they throw the kitchen sink at this guy and used it to wash his hands. this could be the predictor of the fight to come. if newt gets past his rivals, he will be stronger than now. country's voters are feeling now to the distant story of how newt gingrich felt in the 1990s.

precisely what happened when president carter attacked ronald reagan, not for the economic proposals in 1980, but for the way back in the 1960s. going after reagan's past instead of his present was what earned carter the attack line that killed him. there you go again, mr. president. the dismissive putdown that said, you poor desperate politician clinging to office that mean nothing for the guy looking for a job. so pay smart attention to this primary about this weekend. the pre-pris mass republican debate saturday night will be the first time that we get to see mit throw his best punch. if he does throw it, it better hit home. if he doesn't throw it, he will be accused of throwing a pawlenty who promised to go after romney and didn't do it and was thrown out of the race. this is showing more and more the kind of brawl we're going to get in fou