in realtime. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. hey, republicans, are you sure you want to mess with this president? president obama makes a surprise appearance in the briefing room with a stern warning for speaker boehner. this is not a game. and scott walker is fighting for his political life and suppressing voters. now he's fighting a lawsuit. and get this. remember that crazy idea newt had about poor kids and janitors? at least two right wing governors are already rolling back child labor laws. >> it is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children, first of all in, child laws which are truly stupid. >> welcome to "politics nation."

i'm al sharpton, tonight's lead. the president is tired of house republicans playing games, especially when the lives of 160 million americans are at stake. today at a surprise appearance in the briefing room he called out speaker boehner by name to do the right thing. >> democrats and republicans in the senate said we're going to put our fights on other issues aside and go ahead and do what's right. i need the speaker and house republicans to do the same. put politics aside, put aside issues where there are fundamental dis'agreements and come together on something we agree on, and let's not play brinksmanship. >> let's not play brinksmanship. that's the one thing the president is asking from speaker boehner, but he and the members

of the house aren't listening. today 229 republicans rejected legislation that would extend the payroll tax cut. once again, speaker boehner and the tea party are holding this country hostage. just like they did during the debt ceiling debate, just like they did in april when they forced -- they nearly forced a government shutdown. just like they did when they rejected the president's grand bargain. yet somehow speaker boehner has the nerve to pass the buck on to the president. >> now it's up to the president to show real leadership. we've done our work for the american people. now it's up to the president and democrats in the senate to do their job as well. i need the president to help out, all right? >> you're right. you do need help. stop playing politics. and listen to what's really important.

>> i saw today that one of the house republicans referred to what they are doing as, quote, high-stakes poker. he's right about the stakes, but this is not poker. this is not a game. this shouldn't be politics as usual. this is not a game for the millions of americans who will take a hit when the entire economy grows more slowly because these proposals aren't extended. >> joining me now is congressman tom reid, freshman republican from new york. congressman, first, thank you for coming on the show tonight. >> well, thanks for having us, reverend. i appreciate it. >> now, let me ask you. will you and the republicans be able to reach an agreement with democrats before the holidays? >> well, that's my intention. you know, i've been named to the conference to be a conferee to stay down here in washington and work through the holidays. we have 11 days to get this done, and what we're talking about is getting a one-year solution on the table rather than the band-aid approach that the senate put over here of 60

days. >> why is it not a band-aid if you propose a year from the republicans, but it was a band-aid when the president proposed a year? how does your year become different in his year? >> i would say the president's proposal is where we'll end up, the hope that i put on the table today, and -- and what i say is that, you know, we want long-term solutions, but 60 days out of the senate, senate has exhibited a complete failure of leadership on the issue and the senate should be held accountable for it. >> i'll mark that as no answer because i asked you about the difference between your plan and the president, you went to the senate. the fact of the matter is people are suffering. in your district, let me show you this, congressman, 45.8% of your district makes under $50 a year. that's the district you represent in upstate new york. certainly $1,000 in their pocket or tax hike means something to them. those that are unemployed, if unemployment benefits run out, it means something in your

district, so i'm not even asking you to be noble about all of america. aren't you concerned about the economic condition of the people that sent to you washington? >> al, that's my first and foremost priority. you say $1,000 payroll tax credit with people. let's be honest with the american people. what the senate has done in 60 days is try to offer $166 to those same people. i'm talking about bringing certainty to my constituents back at home, and i'm willing to do the work. we've got 11 days, and the senate has left us here hanging dry, and the bottom line is the senate needs to come back to work. we'll find a long-term solution to it, one year as a minimum and i think we can get it done but it will take the senate to do its work and i call upon the president to ask the senate to do that. we do have to set politics aside and i'm willing to do that and that's what it's going to take, the president and the senate showing leadership and joining us in the house as we finish up the here and spend these 11 days doing the work for the american people because that's what the american people deserve. >> congressman reed, i'm glad

you said let's put politics aside. so when the president had proposed this year extension and republicans came back talking about the oil pipeline had to be in, that we had to drug test people with unemployment insurance, that we had to cut unemployment insurance by 40 weeks, you didn't agree with your party on that, right? >> no. what we're talking about is taking the president and offering our ideas of reforms when it comes to unemployment. >> what does those things i just outlined have to do with reforming payroll tax extension? i'm asking you yes or no. did you agree with those things that your party said when the president had proposed a year extension? >> simply put, al what, we were talking about is paying for the payroll tax rate because we're concerned about the security of social security going forward and what the president was proposing didn't do that, in my opinion, and what we're trying to do is -- >> how does an oil pipeline, how does drug testing people with unemployment insurance pay for payroll tax cut? >> oh, very simple, al. when you talk about the

pipeline, you're talking 160,000 jobs, 20,000 direct jobs being put in place with the stroke of a pen by the president, and he's put politics into the mix to play to his environmentalist base to reject it when it's all been environmentally reviewed for three years and ready to go. >> that doesn't sound non-partisan. wouldn't a millionaire's tax, wouldn't that have paid for it and wouldn't the fact that you guys wouldn't even threat go up for a vote, an up-and-down vote, doesn't that really make the american people wonder what's going on here, congressman reed? >> see, al, that's very misleading to the american people. >> well, straighten me out. >> we had a vote today that clearly -- clearly rejected the senate's proposal. the record is clear. we rejected the senate proposal and said we've got work to do. going to conference and i'm one of the conferees and we'll have the debate in an open and honest fashion, we're still here in washington working while the senate has gone m.i.a., missing in action. >> your solution, let me get it right, is despite that there are environmental concerns, we want

an oil pipeline, we want to drug test people that get unemployment insurance, we want to do all of these things before we will give the people in your district a tax -- a tax break extension. this is already there. this is not creating something new, just to extend it. that's your position. >> al, you're misleading the american people. >> i'm asking. >> the pipeline has been reviewed for three years, and all environmental reviews have said there's no significant impact to the environment, and why is it being delayed? for politics coming out of the white house, and that's all it's about, and we're sick and tired of it. >> well, congressman, i hope we can continue to talk and one thing i do, you've been on the show before and you state what you feel and i state what i feel. we don't agree but we talk. >> and i always respect that. merry christmas, reverend. >> well, it could have been if we hadn't had a tax increase, but joining me now is msnbc couldn't burster melissa

harris-perry, a political scientist at tulane and political commentator. thanks for coming tonight. let me check your pulse. i think you fainted about five minutes ago. will the republicans ultimately have to pay for this brinksmanship that we're looking at here? >> we're really having a moment. you're trying to conduct the interview and i'm over here and my jaw is hitting the table because i cannot believe what is being said. look, i mean, as you know, i live in louisiana, and the idea that this pipeline is environmentally sound, no big deal. >> he said every study found no significant -- >> no significant impact. >> the measuring stick is who determines what's significant. >> and the thing is there never is a significant impact until it's bp, right, until it's that oil in your seafood and the impacting communities that we are still feeling, so -- but i think the big question is the one you asked which is how does that pay -- even the creation of jobs, even if we agree with the creation of jobs and it's all safe, how does this pay for the payroll tax cut extension, and

the answer is that it doesn't? it doesn't keep social security safe. it doesn't pay for the payroll tax cut extension. it is absolutely politics, and it is absolutely the -- the ugliest kind of tax increase because it's a tax increase on those who can least afford it. >> now, the whole anti-poor, i mean, the criminalizing of poor people, drug testing, i mean, we didn't drug test bankers before we bailed them out or the auto industry. this whole class warfare that they keep projecting is really disturbing. i mean, fine. they want to try to beat the president, but they have to try and destroy half of america because the recent polls show, recent studies show, one out of every two americans is living at a poverty level or close to it. >> let me explain why they like to keep it that way. you started asking will they pay for the brinksmanship? >> right. >> the general belief is when a president is running for re-election, the question that voters ask themselves is are we

better off today than we were four years ago? >> correct. >> so if this congress can make sure that people cannot answer that question yes, if this congress can stand in the way and say, no, wait a minute, i'm definitely not better today because i have $1,000 out of my house hold income, definitely not better because there aren't jobs, definitely not better because social security is less secure, then they are hoping that the only person who will have to pay is the president. >> now, ironically when we look at this graph, the thing that surprises us in the whole debate is how americans now say, according to polls, they trust the president more than the gop on taxes, and i think that when you look at that, they are losing. in fact, there's a downturn in terms of trust for the gop. >> yeah. >> and an upturn for the president because i think every chance they got, i'm talking about the gop to prove they were not just taking care of the

wealthy, they failed every test. >> it's hard to claim that you have an ideological position against raising taxes, right in the gop tells us, loo this is our belief about how markets work. we believe that you cannot raise taxes because to do so is bad for the american marketplace. you can't say that you have a principled position while raising -- i mean, this is in every way, in every conceivable way an increase in taxes, and -- and an increase in taxes, exactly the thing which drives our economy which is to say corn sumgs. when people get an extra $150, they spend it. when rich people get an extra $150, they save it, sock it away but that's real money really in the economy. >> now, even scott brown, a republican, massachusetts, even he has taken a different position and has kind of chastised the republicans in the house. this is no radical or even progressive idea we're talking

about here. >> yeah. the opposite of a radical or progress progressive or socialist or a lefty or any of those things. in fact, in many ways i think progressives might say, look, we do actually need to raise taxes, particularly payroll taxes, because the payroll taxes are the things because the republicans are standing in the way of increasing payroll taxes on the back end, they actually do make social security less secure but only because, only because they are unwilling to talk about raising payroll taxes on the very wealthy. the issue shouldn't be about ordinary workers. it should be about those who are making up over $150,000, $200,000 a year. their payroll taxes should be extended to that greater amount of their income. >> professor melissa harris-perry, thanks as always for joining us tonight. ahead, president obama's fight for fairness is working. we'll show you why the president is surging. plus, newt's plan to make poor kids janitors might be closer to reality than anyone thought.

we'll tell you how the right wing war on the poor is happening right now. and all of a sudden willard is everywhere. the real reason behind the media blitz might surprise you. you're watching "politics nation," on msnbc. this new at&t 4g lte is fast. did you hear sam... ...got promoted to director? so 12 seconds ago. we should get him a present. thanks for the gift basket. you're welcome. you're welcome. did you see hr just sent out new... ...office rules? cause you're currently in violation of 6 of them. oh yeah, baby? ...and 7. did you guys hear that fred is leaving? so 30 seconds ago. [ noisemakers blow ] [ both ] we'll miss you! oh, facecake! there's some leftover cake. [ male announcer ] the new htc vivid. stay a step ahead with at&t 4g lte, with speeds up to 10x faster than 3g. ♪

there is a force building against newt. they are ripping him from all sides and in all different ways. it's personal. it's financial. and it's working. is it over for newt? that's next. e going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind.

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welcome back to "politics nation." newton leroy gingrich is getting pounded with harsh attacks from his competitors. they are attacking him from all sides and on ways, on the airwaves. >> it's a character problem. he doesn't have the discipline that you want in a president. >> he is out, and basically he's out in the left wing of the republican party. >> newt has more baggage than the airlines. as speaker gingrich even supported taxpayer funding of some abortions. newt has a ton of baggage. he was fined $300,000 for ethics violations. >> newt gingrich renewed his support for an individual mandate, a key tenet of president obama's health care law. >> support for an individual mandate? folks, don't ask me to explain this. >> and the real question of seriousness. question of seriousness. >> everything that gingrich railed against when he was in the house, he went the other way

when he got paid to go the other way. >> you're an embarrassment to our party. >> this guy hasn't got skeletons in his closet, he has a whole graveyard in there. >> it's about serial hypocrisy. >> and direct mailers to voters, mitt romney has said he's a flip-flopper, taken both sides on illegal immigration, abortion and ron paul punches as well calling him, quote, a counterfeit conservative with a long record of liberal appeasement. as the "new york times" reports today, the attacks are paying off. according to one republican strategist, quote, he's getting killed. newt says he wants to stay positive, but with these harsh attacks working on him, how long can he stay true to that? joining me now is democratic strategist tad devine, former senior strategist to the gore campaign and former senior

adviser to john kerry's 2004 campaign and michael steele, former rnc chairman and now an msnbc analyst. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> yeah. >> tad, let me start with you. can newt gingrich survive all these attacks? >> well, i think -- i think it's hurting him very badly. i think it's taken its toll. i think he can survive in the sense that he can still be a major force and still be one of the top two candidates, but i think the barrage that's going on right now is probably going to take him down, and if he doesn't think of a way to get out of that barrage, i think romney is going to bury him. >> now, chairman steele, the "new york times" in their story today, i'm sure you saw it, talks about how romney spent thousands of dollars every day in the past two weeks on anti-gingrich ads. december 9th, over 20,000 and then it goes up on the 11th, 40,000. the 13th, nearly 60,000, december 14th, nearly 70,000, this is in a day.

>> yeah. >> i mean, to spend this kind of money on negative attacks, his pac anyway, this is unprecedented. >> well, that's the point, very distinguishing point is whether this is coming directly out of his campaign or is this part of the super fund money that's been generated out there to the tune of about $2.6 million. >> right. >> which is allowable now with the new supreme court decision. >> and i think on that point as a sidebar i think congress is going to after the election cycle say, okay, we need to fix this, and they should, but having said that i think tad is right. newt is in a position right now where he's got to stop the bleeding, not just around the edges, but internally in terms of how these attacks are really hitting him. there are two points i think that he has working for him. one is the 11th commandment of the gop which is reagan's commandment about attacking other republicans. while it does have an initial impact and it brings your numbers down, there is a point of diminishing returns where the impact is less effective and it begins to turn back on the person doing the attacking. with the super pac money out

there doing that, he's got to be very careful, mitt's team, that this doesn't backfire on them when people go into the polls and say, you know what, this just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. and, two, newt has been making a very strong effort, more personal effort, going to voters across iowa on a bus, knocking on doors, telling his story directly to them in groups, and we'll see how that impacts him because he doesn't have the money otherwise to respond, and it's really tough for him right now. >> but how does he stop the hemorrhaging, you said, without going negative himself? >> well, that's -- that's a good question. i mean, newt has been very clear that he does not want to go negative, that he wants to stay very positive, and i think even when one slipup us a noted last week where he came back at romney, he then apologized and said, look, this is not where i want my campaign to go. that does have some resonance with voters in this environment. we just don't know whether or not it's going to be an effective resonance. >> tad, when does -- and you've handled some campaigns, when do you determine that to not

respond is to stay above the fray and try to remain positive but after so much people start believing it because you didn't answer it and maybe your lack of answering it is a concession that it's true. when do you make that call? >> well, it's a tough call. i think you have to look to the resources you have available and whether or not you can use television advertising to deliver a message. gingrich has upped his media buy. gingrich is in a situation similar to the one bill clinton was in a couple weeks in 1992 before the new hampshire primary. there was an utter barrage against him. it was coming on all fronts, and bill clinton, to his credit, stood up, went out and campaigned in an unbelievable fashion and connected with people and related to them and related to their struggles at that time. i think that's gingrich's only out. he can -- he's only got one hope in this thing. he's got to stand with people and say listen, this whole system is rigged against you, and they are using it against me, and unless he can make the kind of connection that clinton did with new hampshire voters in '92, he's going to be mowed over

by this barrage of negative ads. >> but michael, there's a big difference going out and saying i feel your pain and going out saying your child should be a forget and forget the child labor laws, don't you think? >> i was waiting for that, al, i knew it would come. there is a big difference and that's not necessarily what newt was saying, but i think the broader point is what tad said, and that is that newt has to make that connection, a direct connection with the voters. that's why he's on the bus tours across the state. that's why he's doing the town hall meetings, the tele town hall meetings and personal conversation with them because the resources are lacking, and what resources he has he wants to put on the ground for game day on the 3rd of january so he can get his vote out to support him, so -- the other advantage i think he has is these attacks have come late in this process. in other words, you're two weeks out before the -- before the actual voting starts, so the -- the -- the long-term impact is going to be minimized because

people are going to go into the polls and hopefully a lot of this -- with the holidays and everything coming, that stuff will get set aside. i know that's part of the thinking as well. >> now, tad, let me say this. michael steele had a slight headache when he heard newt was number one, as the former rnc chair, but he woke up screaming and hollering when he heard this -- when he saw these polls, that ron paul is now leading the pack in iowa. let me show you these figures. pull at 23, romney at 20 and gingrich at 14. i mean, we're just -- when you thought, mr. chairman, it couldn't get any worse, it got worser. >> it hasn't gotten worser. it's actually -- >> look in that camera and say you would love to go over this country and campaign ron paul. >> i will go across the country and campaign for the republican nominee regardless, period. >> i said ron paul. >> ron paul, if he's the republican nominee, regardless,

because -- >> are you good at concession speeches, drafting them? >> he's just not going to give me a break here, but the bottom line is, the one thing i can appreciate as a former rnc chairman is that what we intended it may actually work out, have a very fluid process that allows the voters the opportunity to really size these individuals up and come to their own conclusions, not the establishment's conclusion nor the super pakz bcs but the individual conclusion that voters have about who should be the nominee of our party. >> family leader pac announced they would not endorse anyone and the main president and ceo said he was going with rick santorum, do we still have enough time for one more flavor of the month? what are we looking at here? >> too late for santorum, stuck in low single digits. santorum's problem is simple. voters in places like iowa and new hampshire will not support a

candidate unless they believe that candidate has a real chance of winning or affecting the outcome of the race. santorum has never crossed the threshold of credibility but ron paul is a real factor and ron paul could win the iowa caucuses, and if he does that, this thing could go on for a long time and he and gingrich together might be able to get enough delegates to stop romney and if that happens that's a great day for the democrats. >> tad devine, michael steele, pleasure having both of you on tonight. >> good to be with you. and a quick program note. chuck todd has a special live interview with mitt romney on "the daily run don" tomorrow. he'll be spending the day with romney on the campaign trail in new hampshire. that's 9:00 a.m. tomorrow right here on msnbc. ahead why the president's fight for fairness is working and the gop war on the middle class might backfire. cuban

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if you really hated a job, you wouldn't want to do it, right? but for some reason the republican candidates running for president hate politicians so much they can't wait to be the biggest one in the world. right, willard? >> the only way we're going to get president obama out of the white house, because it's hard to replace an incumbent, is if we have someone run against him who is different than a lifelong politician. i don't think someone who has spent their life in washington is going to be able to be

sufficiently distinctive for president obama to actually beat him. >> first of all, as newt said, the only reason you're not a lifelong politician is because you lost, and what about those four years as massachusetts governor? did you erase those with the e-mails you obliterated? then there's rick perry. >> i'm unique in this republican field. i've never been an establishment figure. i've never been a part of an administration. i've never been a paid lobbyist. my career has been that of a washington outsider. >> really, rick? you've been in texas politics since the early '90s, and i guess that doesn't count and then we have michele bachmann, she's been in congress for four years and minnesota politics for six years but she just said, quote, i'm not a politician. i'm a real person. i don't even know how to be a

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folks, we've been talking about all night, for that matter, republicans waging war on the middle class. let me tell you they are going to lose this fight. a new poll shows president obama's approval rating up five points in the last month. it's now at 49%. and when it comes to those who trust -- who americans trust the most to protect the middle class, 15% trust president obama more than republicans in congress this. didn't happen overnight. this happened because of a relentless fight for fairness. >> this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot, when everyone does their fair share.

we're asking people like me to pay our fair share so middle class families can get a tax cut. their philosophy is simple. we are better off when everybody is left to fend for themselves and play by their own rules. i am here to say they are wrong. it's time to put country ahead of party. it's time to put the next generation ahead of the next election. >> joining me now is joan walsh, editor-at-large for salon.com and msnbc analyst richard wolffe, author of "revival, the struggle for survival in the obama white house." joan, let me start with you. is the president's message breaking through? >> oh, it's absolutely breaking through, reverend al. i mean, things are rarely simple

in politics, but this kind of is, you know. the president had a very tough summer. he fought very hard for a compromise on the debt ceiling deal. he didn't get it, and his poll numbers suffered for that. he turned around. he began fighting back. he launched his job bill. he took a jobs tour. he gave a great jobs speech. he came out. he broke that bill up into pieces so that we had a part that would have gone for first responders to keep cops and fire fighters and teachers on the job. he became -- he broke it down very well. he -- he gave speeches and sound bites like you just played, and he really cast himself as a defender of the middle and working classes, even though he's not getting any cooperation from republicans. that has seemed to work. and i think there are a couple of numbers that are really significant. his standing with seniors has climbed. >> yeah. >> which is important, and his standing with the white men without a college degree has climbed. >> that's very significant. >> to over 40% which is very significant and very different

so, you know, he's getting a lot of pieces of the old democratic base back with this fighting, fighting message, and i think people like us are very glad to hear it. >> i think part of the way the president is being helped is he is fighting, as joan said. >> sure. >> let's look at some of what he did today, kind of taking it to the republicans in a strident way. look at this. >> we have more important things to worry about than politics right now. we have more important things to worry about than saving face or figuring out internal caucus politics. the american people are weary of it. they are tired of it, and they expect better. >> now this is appealing not only as joan has outlined to seniors and white working males but even independents. >> right. >> this is interesting. independents say they trust president obama on taxes 49% to 32% for the gop in congress.

yet they can't pop the champagne bottles yet because he's starting to trend up. this is not across the board. >> and that's why you have so many republican senators out there yesterday saying this whole idea of nixing the payroll tax cut is a major mistake for them. they are undermining their own position on taxes. this is a democratic president with a big advantage on taxes, not who do you care about more or who is looking after health care? this should be a republican issue, and this is where the president's out ahead. yes, joan is right. because they have message consistency and discipline. they are breaking through on some of these bigger arguments, on jobs and middle class stuff. it's also because he's projecting strength here and the other side is projecting complete disarray. he's got a very weak opponent or a bunch of different on sglenpp >> joan, when you look at the polls and the matchups with the potential republican opponents, you have president obama at 49, willard at 46, president obama at 51, newt leroy at 42.

president obama at 50%, ron paul at 43, so in any of these heads up, according to this poll, the president wins. now, talking about newt, newt wanted to -- had said that we need to go into the poorest neighborhoods and have children working as janitors. it sounded ludicrous. i attacked it. alot of people attacked it, but this year maine and wisconsin has already lessened child labor laws. i mean, look at this graph of what's going on in these two states and it seems outrageous is becoming something that we're slowly looking at. in wisconsin, employers are allowed to treat teens as adults in pay and hours and -- and in maine employers are allowed to hire teens for longer hours and

pay below minimum wage. what's going on in this country, richie? >> well, look, you know, the last problem in the labor market is people -- there are not enough people looking for work. i mean, this is -- this is a retrograde step for people to be projecting the idea that there aren't enough children out there working. we need them to be investing in their education for themselves and for the country. i -- there is a -- there's an idea on the republican side that you just need to let businesses do whatever they want to do, and america is going to get right. we cannot compete as businesses or as a country on labor costs. we're always going to get undercut. there's got to be another path for, it and education's got to be the best way. >> how does the president deal with an issue like this, joan? you've got the republicans for the first time now supporting a tax hike or threatening to on the middle class, and there seems to be -- let's relax some of the boundaries in child labor laws in at least two state. how does the president deal with

this as an issue? >> you know, i think he's been making a very, very coherent appeal that we all do better when we stick together, that we're all in it together and that we're not going to be pitted against one another the way the republicans like to do, and that includes our children, you know. i think scott walker is in a hell of a lot of trouble in wisconsin, that this real doubling down and making -- making my old state a laboratory for the most heartless republican experiments is really backfiring on him politically, and the people of wisconsin are standing up, as the state also continues to lose jobs, so i think -- i think the president has found a really winning message. i think it's resonating with americans, and as they see what the scott walkers and the john kasichs and the other republicans want to do to their states, people -- even people who voted for those guys are kind of recoiling in horror, we weren't voting for that. >> right. >> so i think you'll continue to

see these trends. >> well, we'll be on it, joan and richard, thanks for joining us tonight. >> ahead, scott walker, as you mentioned him, is fighting for his political life. he's trying to suppress voters, and now he's getting sued. it's about to get interesting. ♪

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we are back. we've been talking on this show about fighting the coordinated right wing efforts to suppress the vote. this year, the number of states requiring a government-issued photo i.d. to vote quadrupled, jumping from two states to eight, and one state we're really watching is scott walker's wisconsin where an estimated 475,000 voters don't have proper i.d. to vote. they tested the law in wisconsin during the recall election for nine wisconsin state senators, and it was a disaster. voters found long lines, confusion and massive glitches, but the fight is on.

the aclu of wisconsin just filed a lawsuit against governor scott walker calling the law unconstitutional. joining me now is john sherman, the attorney leading the aclu lawsuit against governor walker and rita platt, a wisconsin teacher struggling to get the proper i.d. she needs to vote. thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you for having me on. >> thank you for having us. >> rita, let me start with you. what happened when you tried to get your i.d.? >> well, let me tell you, first, i live in a rural part of the state, and the nearest dmv that's open with any regular hours is about a 45-minute drive south, so i knew that i needed to get an updated wisconsin i.d. i've voted in every election since i was 18, including three in wisconsin in the last year and a half, so the first day i had off work which was the day before thanksgiving i went down to the dmv. i had contacted them and asked them what documents i would need

to update my license from iowa to wisconsin, and i was told i would need proof of identity, citizenship and residence. i brought with me my iowa driver's license, my social security card and a pay stub, and when i got to the dmv, i was told that that was not adequate identification but that i would need a certified birth certificate or a current passport, neither of which i had with me, neither of which i had at home. >> so you drove 45 minutes. you had these valid pieces of identification. they told you that was not enough. then i have a statement here where john wolf, when i believe was your boyfriend. >> yes. >> he also ran into problems say when he went for photo i.d., let me show you what he said happened to him. >> i walked in there with a current state of iowa driver's license with my name and my date of birth, you know, all that was on it as well as a social

security card, as well as proof of residence here, a bank statement, a paycheck stub, you know, and so, you know, i figured i was good, and -- and they just explained no. they said that doesn't count as proof of your identity because an iowa driver's license is not adequate proof of who i am. >> john, you're listening to both rita here, and you're listening to her boyfriend. driver's license, bank stubs, social security card, not i.d.? i mean, this almost sounds bizarre. >> this -- this is the most systematic attack we've seen on voting rights in america in generations, and i think the fact that they are forcing voters through this obstacle course proves it. take, for instance, one of our plaintiffs in the aclu lawsuit,

barbara oden. in order to get a state i.d. card she needs to prove her identity and so needs to get a social security card. she shows up at the social security office, and they tell her she needs a photo i.d. to get her social security card, so she's not a trained lawyer, and she's stuck in a catch-22 and goes home and thinks i can't vote. well, you know, that's simply not fair, and anyone who would disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters like barbara in the name of of legitimacy and integrity, well, they should probably look up the definition of those two words. >> well, rita, let me show you why i agree with john, and we've been fighting this on the show, and my work with the action network. look at the data. the republican national lawyers association says, and this is -- they are defending this, since 2004 out of 11 million votes

cast, there's only 23 cases of fraud. so they are not solving a problem. there's no problem. they are creating the problem in undermining people's right to vote. this is 0.0002%. you're a teacher and treated like you're doing something wrong just by exercising your right to vote. >> you're absolutely right. in the only for me, i will get my voter i.d. on time. already got my certified birth certificate. i have the means to get down to the dmv. i will vote in the next election, but when you consider the other folks being disenfranchised, the students, elderly, african-american voters, latino-american voters and folks who are in poverty, it's not going to be as easy for many people to go through the rigamarole that they are asking us to to exercise our right. >> you're trying to make this lawsuit so that you can alleviate the pain for so many

elderly, african-american, hispanics, you're trying to deal with this. quickly, what do you think the forecast is on the success of this lawsuit? >> i think we are going to be successful. i think we have very strong claims that this law imposes unconstitutional burdens on voters, unconstitutional poll taxes, and that it arbitrarily excludes certain photo i.d.s from the list of accepted photo i.d. such as veteran identification cards and technical college i.d. cards. what i would say is we -- you know, we have almost 6 million people in this country who have been out of work for six months or more. who is going to pay for their certified copies of birth certificates? who is going to pay for the gas it takes to drive in rural wisconsin to get it? >> well, maybe they don't want them to vote because they are certainly not trying to get them jobs to go to work. john sherman and rita platt, thank you for joining me

tonight. we'll be right back.

finally tonight, i want to remember what happened 25 years ago today. a 23-year-old african-american man named michael griffith was killed in a racist attack in howard beach queens. he was attacked by a group of white teenagers outside a pizzeria and chased him to a highway where he was hit by a car and killed. after this horrific and unprovoked attack, we marched for justice for michael. we marched to show the world the ugliness of the attack, and the world took notice. >> hate on earth, that's how "the new york daily news" described a racial attack last weekend. >> the reverend al sharpton saw this as part of a pattern. >> all over the northeast, it's gone to a nationwide white backlash.

>> before we marched some people believed that racism was just a problem in the south. we learned that it existed in all parts of america. in remembering michael today i looked at how much has changed in 25 years. we have an african-american president, and an african-american attorney general. that change gives me reason to believe we can change america because we did change america, but we face new challenges, we're challenged to fight class warfare and income inequality and continued institutional racism. where the most vulnerable citizens in our country are pitted against the rich et, rich against poor, 25 years we've come a long way, and that gives us hope, but we still have a long way to go and that gives us purpose. so even in the dark days, even when unfair and untrue things are thrown our way, i still have faith because i've seen in my lifetime the ugliness of