wear slippers and pajamas. >> no chance. what else you got. >> one more. i got up yeah. >> i got up because i thought willie was going to be gone another week. >> wow. >> yeah. >> hoping i would be gone or just thinking? thanks again, joe, mika, for filling in. "morning joe" starts right now. i'm going to do something to government. i'm going to make it simpler and smaller and smarter. getting rid of programs, turning programs back to states and, finally, making government itself more efficient. i'm going to get rid of obama care. it is a moral imperative for america to stop spending more money than we take in. it's killing jobs and it's keeping our kids from having the bright prospects they deserve. the experience of balancing budgets is desperately needed in washington and i will take it there. >> i'm mitt romney and i approve this message. >> mitt romney ad now up in iowa. good morning. it is tuesday, december 27th.

welcome to "morning joe." joining us onset, the former governor of pennsylvania, msnbc political analyst ed rendell. host of politics nation, reverend al sharpton. the senior policy advisorior, jimmy williams and in washington columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor ezra klein. wait. there's more. senior contributor of the daily caller matt lewis. welcome all. happy holidays. hope everybody had a good christmasment time to get down to business. one week away from the voting in iowa. we saw mitt romney making a big push. governor rendell. that was one of the big questions whether mitt romney would play in iowa. he is playing in iowa. >> well, i think he saw a field that was so weak and didn't have any clear front-runner that he might actually wind up stealing iowa. if he steals iowa and wins big in new hampshire like the polls indicate he will then the nomination might be his right

then and there. it's a little bit of a gamble but a pretty smart gamble. i've never seen anything with a week to go where you can't predict who is going to win or even come close. you can't predict the top two. >> it is remarkable, reverend sharpton. you look at the polls. you've got ron paul, newt gingrich, mitt romney all bunched right there. you couldn't call this race right now if you had to. >> this is after a procession of flavors of the month going up and down up and down. so i think that i agree with the governor that the romney people are probably just deciding to have a different strategy. i don't think this is what they originally intended to play in iowa but i think that with the implosion of so many flavors of the month the last being mr. gingrich and now ron paul having his day of turbulence it's the right move for them to make. they could actually pull it out,

which is something no one expected which gives them a bigger than life image going into new hampshire. if he pulls that out it will look like a wrap. >> let's listen to what -- was it mike huckabee was talking about this the other night. he made a prediction. the guy of course who won iowa four years ago. here's what he said. >> i would probably say that mitt romney will end up winning it today. ron paul because of his organization could and that is where mitt is at a disadvantage. he doesn't have the devotion. if the weather is good mitt romney is in better shape. if the weather is bad tan's tough to get out ron paul will win. >> weather not with standing who do you like a week out? >> i'm still with paul. i still think ron paul is going to walk away with it by one or two. it is tightening. i always thought the iowa caucuses were not the bellwether of what happens when it comes to the nomination. new hampshire and south carolina, florida definitely is.

but huckabee, look. huckabee won it. what happened to huckabee? now he's on fox. frankly i'm not sure iowa to be honest is a great bellwether of this all but at this point it is a toss up. >> matt lewis, what do you think now? we have one week out. i went on vacation a week ago and it was all newt gingrich, newt gingrich. come back a week later. now he's fallen and it's mitt romney. where are we? >> well, you make a good point, willie. next week is what matters, right? if things changed in the last week they can change in the next week. i do think, look, iowa on the republican side traditionally hasn't mattered that much but on the democratic side it really has. if you look at what happened with john kerry and barack obama, iowa really gave them momentum and elevated them. i think it could happen. if newt gingrich or rick perry could somehow pull off a win in iowa, which i think is within the realm of possibility although not likely, then it becomes a real race. i think if ron paul or mitt romney win iowa which appears to

be more likely, it looks like romney could coast with this nomination. so the next week is really super important as to whether or not this is even going to be a contentiously fought race. >> ezra, what do you make of newt, of romney's message there in the state of iowa? he's up with that new ad we just played saying he is a conservative. he's touting his conservative credentials. on the other side now newt gingrich is backing off his, you know, his promise to not go negative by saying this guy is not a real conservative. newt gingri he's a liberal from the state of massachusetts. can mitt romney make the sale as a conservative in iowa? >> i think he's trying to make the sale as a guy who can win, the guy who has balanced a budget, has executive competence here. but i think this is one of mitt romney's weaknesses right now. what he's got behind him, what his vulnerabilities are not in debates but in tv ads where they show a lot of mitt romney

talking on one side of an issue and then on the other. there have been very few commercials so far. it's been a very cheap primary. as the air war starts i think you'll see some weakness for mitt romney. on the other hand it might be coming too late. at this point almost anybody who could be the anti-mitt romney has had their moment and has been judged one after the other fairly unsatisfactory by i think both party elites and voters and the media, etcetera. >> after all this, governor rendell, all these flavors of the month as the reverend put it. here we are again at mitt romney. do you think the republican party has finally accepted that this guy can be the nominee? they've tasted every other flavor and now they come back to mitt romney. >> well, i'm not sure. i mean, if he wins he'll win with 28%, 29% of the vote. i don't know what that says. one thing that was on the tape that i think is very important, caucuses still are about organization to a great degree and mitt romney, newt gingrich, the two so-called front-runners

don't have much of an organization on the ground. huge advantage for ron paul. big advantage for rick santorum who is the one candidate that has really worked iowa, worked the retail, been in all of the counties. i wouldn't be surprised if rick santorum did surprisingly well in that tuesday night. >> yeah. one of the senior strategists in a piece for "new york" magazine, senior strategist came out and said essentially i'd be shocked if we weren't the nominee. perhaps not the most wise thing for somebody to come out and say at this point. >> a romney senior strategist? oh, my. >> he was an unnamed senior strategist. >> a good thing. >> that is not wise to say, but i would agree that santorum should not be under estimated. and if he just does well, he doesn't have to win. >> right. >> if he does well he will appear more competitive than we've ever given him a chance. but i think the real problem is that -- and i know even from the democratic side when i was

involved in 2004 it's about who can move your people into the caucuses. >> right. >> and i think that it is really telling what huckabee says about the weather because then you're going to have to have organization to mobilize and there i think ron paul with all of this turbulence probably has the edge. so if i was romney i'd be behind every commercial saying a prayer for good weather. >> organization and passion. >> yes. >> that was the point made on that, too. there is not a lot of passion for mitt but there is for ron paul and santorum. >> there is a lot of passion against mitt. >> i like the way you call it turbulence for ron paul. a nice euphemism. newt gingrich facing some questions about his campaign organization. gingrich failed as you may have heard to collect enough signatures to appear on the virginia primary ballot. both gingrich, a long-time virginia resident, and rick perry came up short on the state's requirement to participate in the march 6 primary where 49 delegates are at stake. the gingrich camp on the

defensive blasting the virginia system has failed vowing to find its way on to the ballot. gingrich's national campaign director taking to facebook. get this. comparing the campaign setback to the attack on pearl harbor. saying in part newt and i agree the analogy is december, 1941. we've experienced an unexpected setback but we will regroup and refocus with increased determination, commitment, and positive action. the former speaker maintains his staff is working on alternative methods to compete in the state of virginia. >> we're disappointed but it was our fault and we hope to launch a write-in campaign and getting an amazing number of people who believe virginians ought to have the trite choose and shouldn't be restricted to two people. with five different candidates not having been put on the ballot. we'll probably launch a write-in campaign. >> pat lewis the pearl harbor analogy not with standing i love that they agreed on that. we talked about this and we agreed 1941 is the correct

analogy. how does this happen? how does a leading presidential campaign not get on the ballot in the home state of the candidate? >> well, i think a couple things, willie. first of all, this is devastating for gingrich. i mean, 46 delegates at stake. this is virginia. it's on super tuesday. it's not winner take all. so even if he were on the ballot, even if he were not, didn't win, but if he came in second, and i think newt gingrich was actually leading in virginia, that means real delegates so this is a serious logistical infrastructure problem. it implies to me that they're not -- obviously not as well run as they ought to be. on the other hand it is fair to say that the virginia rules are onerous. you have people running, trying to win iowa, trying to win new hampshire, and they have to worry not just about 50 states but about, in virginia you have to get 400 signatures from each of the 11 counties so it is a bit onerous but at the end of the day newt looks bad by not getting on it. >> what does it say about the

gingrich campaign at the end of the day? i mean, this is humiliating. >> doesn't have a campaign except in name only because he's the former speaker of the house. look, i don't know what virginia's requirements are and i am a resident of the commonwealth of virginia but also not running for president. let me be clear. >> thank god for that. >> thank god. >> i don't know. are you in the field? >> i'm probably more conservative than mitt romney and i am a democrat. >> we can move one more left. >> if i can get on the ballot, right. next thing gingrich is going to do is blame the germans for blaming pearl harbor. this guy is a fraud. i mean, it's not like newt gingrich lost his speakership when they lost the house of representatives. his own party threw him out. >> right. >> so it's gaffe after gaffe. we all declared he was dead in the summer with the tiffany's stuff and he came back. but that's largely i think because of romney because of his lack of conservative credentials. but to your point earlier about santorum, if santorum is nipping on his heels like that, that

sets up for the next primaries, a huge, interesting battle right between a real conservative, a crazy conservative, but a real conservative, and mitt romney. gingrich fades away in my opinion but it's embarrassing he couldn't get on the ballot in virginia. >> i think it's more than just a setback in virginia. i think if you're a republican supporter you look at that and say, god, 400 signatures and 11 counties? not so hard, willie. gosh. campaigns for governor and attorney general and auditor general do that just like that. >> ezra? >> actually speaking to something that is becoming a big deal in the republican primary, right? running a campaign is a test. it is a test in and of itself. it's a microcosm of running something much larger and much more important which is the federal government. and three of the major alternatives to mitt romney have come out with massive shows of administrative incompetence. newt gingrich and rick craig couldn't get on the ballot in virginia and ron paul if you take the most generous possible interpretation of nis newsletters wasn't reading what

was being written under his own name. when folks sort of bounce back and forth trying to find an anti-mitt romney at some point when these people get serious and actually win a primary or come close to it the question becomes can they actually be president? not are they conservative or an interesting candidate but can they become president? a couple of them at least are providing good reason to doubt they can simply do the organizational tasks that come far beyond any type, any of the visionary leadership, you know, great man of history stuff that newt gingrich likes to talk about reverend sharpton, that's why i asked the question about the party coming home to romney. they watched this play out over the last ten months or whatever it's been. they've seen all of these other people come through and maybe now is the moment where they say mitt romney is the only guy we can elect to beat barack obama. >> well, i think he just said the key point. before you even get to whether they can run the federal government, can they go up against an organization like barack obama. >> right. >> so before, if i'm a republican, god forbid, and i'm

looking at this as who would be my candidate, i'm looking at this awesome organization that barack obama demonstrated in '08 and i'm looking at people that can't make the ballot, that don't read the newsletter. i'm thinking i'm going to compete with this? >> right. >> so forget getting into the federal government. how did they compete with president obama? and i don't know if it's about coming home to romney. it might be coming to romney. i don't know of a lot who feel that's home. >> so that's the question for you as a conservative. how does that play out? i mean, a lot of conservatives don't like the way that mitt romney has conducted himself as a governor. but at the end of the day, they want to win this election. so what do they do? >> right. so we're at an interesting crossroads right now. look. if the election is about process, if it's about competence and who can fill out spread sheets and get on ballots, mitt romney is your man. if it's about ideas, about passion, mitt romney is probably not your man. but at the very minimum you

expect republican candidates to at least pass the threshold of credibility. it makes me wonder, where is tim pawlenty right now? tim pawlenty, he would be the guy you turn to, right? we finally throw our hands up. okay. we're not going to have -- no savior is going to rise from the streets. we hate mitt romney. who sort of is the middle ground? it would be tim pawlenty if the guy hadn't dropped out of the race. >> tim pawlenty is gone though. rick pitino about larry byrd, tim pawlenty is not walking through that door. what do you do then? you have a guy, you say he's the candidate of the spread sheets but mitt romney may also be the only guy who can beat president obama. what is the answer? >> i think it's going to be mitt romney at this point. look, somebody, you know, again, if newt gingrich or rick perry catches fire in iowa, that could give them the momentum but if i'm a betting man today i think it's going to be mitt romney and this is going to be the republican party that says, we don't fall in love. we fall in line. this is going to be bob dole. it's going to be, you know,

whoever, the next guy in line is. and maybe that's enough though. maybe that's enough this year to beat barack obama. we'll see. >> bob dole and john mccain perhaps. >> there you go. >> two guys who went on to lose. we should point out. >> there you go. >> we'll continue this conversation coming up and revisit some of the biggest interviews of the year here on "morning joe" including our visit with oprah, larry king, and walter isaacson, who of course wrote the blockbuster book of the year, his biography of steve jobs. plus, history now made in new orleans. drew brees passes dan marino for the single season yardage record. highlights of monday night football and first bill karins with a look at the forecast. >> hey, willie. i heard you talking earlier about the weather in iowa a week from now. our technology is now getting good enough we can at least get a general idea of what the weather is going to be a week from now. i just looked up the iowa weather a week from today. it looks absolutely fine. no big storms in the middle of the country. so take that for a grain of salt as far as turnout goes.

as far as today's forecast, today is the worst travel day of the week. we are seeing heavy rain on the eastern seaboard. everyone from atlanta to florida and eventually up to the big city. we've even got a little white stuff this morning. it is now snowing moderately in st. louis with minor accumulations. such little in the way of snow. this is only an inch or two but no big deal. areas of indiana, eventually that'll shift into ohio, pittsburgh, cleveland, buffalo, syracuse, you're all going to get a little bit of snow. maybe 1 to 3 inches at most around 4 or 5 at higher elevations. in the east today the bottom line, bring the umbrella with you. so it will eventually start raining in d.c. the middle of the morning. new york city the rain will move in late in the afternoon. boston you have to wait until tonight to get your heavy rain. as far as the southeast goes that's where it's going to be windy and stormy with even thunderstorms rolling across florida. we'll update the forecast including airport delays during "morning joe" today. you're watching "morning joe" of course brewed by starbucks. ♪ i believe in dreams again

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welcome back to "morning joe." looking at a beautiful live picture. met life stadium at the meadowlands. big game there tonight. we have a quick parade of papers. miami herald absentee ballots will be key to florida's gop primary. so far, nearly 400,000 florida republicans have requested absentee ballots meaning half the votes in that state could be cast well before the january 31st primary date. a new "the washington post" analysis breaking down the divide in wealth between members of congress and their constituents. financial disclosures show over a 25-year period the wealth divides to $725,000. the average wealth of the american family dropped about a hundred dollars. members of congress get richer. the campaigns also breaking the bank. survey finds these days the average amount spent by a successful house candidate is

$1.4 million. that number has quadrupled since 1976. jimmy, want to get you in on this. i watch you and dylan rhadigan 4:00 msnbc. get the money out. you guys have been big on that message. you've read this "the washington post" piece. not just about the income disparity. >> right. >> but about the money and politics. a million and a half bucks for an average house race. what do we do to change the game? >> think about it like this. a smart member of congress, they wake up, go to a breakfast fundraiser. that is an hour. then they go to the committee hearing. who is there? the same lobbyist at the breakfast. then they go to lunch, a fundraiser. more lobbyist. i used to be a lobbyist for full disclosure. then another committee hearing. same lobbyist. then they go to a cocktail party. that's a fundraiser. they go to a dinner. that's a fundraiser. they just spent 75% of their legislative day raising money and about 25% of the day actually getting to know their

colleagues and legislating. and you wonder why congress doesn't look like the rest of america? seriously? it's a joke. >> so it's been a year of hand wringing over money, who's rich, who should be rich. >> sure. >> and why congress isn't looking out. that's really the central message of this occupy movement. the game has been rigged inside washington so we know it's rigged. we know the game is bad. what's the big idea to clang it? >> it's not just occupy. it's tea party too. i think the tea party movement was founded very much on this ideal. you got to ban money in politics. that means you got to go to a federally financed election system. that is and aathema to most conservatives. at the end of the day, a $25 donation from a grandmother in dubuque, iowa is no different than a $25 million donation from one of the koch brothers. why? because there is a quid pro quo. she demands and expects you to vote for her on social security and medicare.

mr. koch, one of them, expects you to vote with him on energy, etcetera, taxes. there is no difference. it's just the zeroes. >> willie, as somebody has raised a lot of money, i raised $42 million for my first gubernatorial campaign and $42 million for my second because i didn't have a primary, he's absolutely right. the failure of the occupy movement to embrace this issue, to change the constitution, that is the only way you do it given the court interpretation, you have to amend the constitution. the failure of the occupy movement not to latch on to this issue which was central for everything they were saying is really disappointing. >> ezra, you've written a lot about this this year about money in politics. what is the best idea you've heard to change this game? >> they're tough. as the governor says, you probably need a constitutional amendment to do anything real big. i think the most promising thing we could do right now, and there are ideas like that including one from senator durbin called fair elections now, is to if you can't get the corporate money out of politics in the way you

want because you don't have a constitutional amendment yet you can enhance the power of small donors. use matching to make a donation under $250 from an ordinary, average american citizen or four times that much in which case it'll be worth it and possible for a congressman to raise his money among his constituents, among small donors instead of having to go to all the lobbyists if they so chose. but i think it's fair to say it is a bit of a depressing issue. i would make one recommendation. a law professor at harvard just brought out a book called republic lost which is i think one of the better explorations of this issue and the way in which it pervades all sort of aspects of d.c. and political life. it is very much worth reading if you're interested. >> we've had him on the show. he is a fascinating -- really a good writer and a smart guy. let's turn to politico and look at the political play. anna, good to see you this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> rick perry. we haven't talked much about rick perry lately. has his 11th iowa campaign out, his ad out this week. and this one is going after congress. let's take a look.

>> if washington is the problem, why trust a congressman to fix it? among them they spend 63 years in congress leaving us with debt, earmarks and bailouts. congressmen get $174,000 a year and you get the bill. we need a solution. >> that's the reason i've called for a part-time congress. cut their pay in half. cut their time in washington in half. cut their staff in half. send them home. let them get a job like everybody else has. i'm rick perry and i approve this message. >> anna, we know his debate performances have been terrible. does he have one last push in him in iowa? could he surprise anybody? is the game over for him? >> this is his hail mary in the hawkeye state for sure. he, as you said, has had a dismal time trying to get any traction there. what he is trying to do is use what he did in the debates. one of the few lines that got any kind of response was this, you know, throw congress out,

you know, mentality, which is play on congress's, you know, low approval rating and hope that his outsider status can somehow help him in iowa these last seven days. >> yeah. and congress controlled by republicans but i guess he's taking that out against ron paul and others who have served. i want to ask you, anna, because you write about money in politics for politico. i bring you in a little bit on the conversation we were just having. how can this game be changed in a meaningful way? we've sort of nibbled around the edges over the years for campaign financing. what's the big idea that we ought to do but also that's possible? something that could get done? >> i think the hard thing right now is there's absolutely no movement in congress. the people that are there have no incentive to actually change it. they are in the system. >> right. >> they can make the money off the fundraisers. so really there's some around the edges, small legislation. but you really have to have a full, you know, constitutional amendment that would actually change the way that money is,

you know, going into the system. >> but as you say it's unlikely because people who need the changes are the ones benefiting from the system. it's got to come from the outside. from the outside. >> a movement like occupy from the outside that becomes an issue during the elections. that you make everyone have to take a position on. even if it's durbin's bill. i think that someone needs to make it an issue that they have to respond to. they're not going to do it on their own. >> remember you can go to the state legislators to get change and start building. get a couple state legislators to pass this and bingo. i think it really spreads. >> congress will have to react at that point. congress is reactive not proactive. they would react at that point. >> meanwhile the president is going to spend a billion dollars for re-election this year. thanks so much. good to see you this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. coming up drew brees makes history on monday night football breaking an nfl record that stood for 27 years. highlights when we come back. [] how'd you learn to do that?

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big monday night football matchup between new orleans

saints and atlanta falcons. in new orleans the saints playing to clinch the nfc south and the team's quarterback eyeing the record books. a shot could break dan marino's record set in 1984. first on monday night football betty white kicked things o. >> i just love football. i mean, the action, the excitement, the eye shadow. and what about these tebowing? i tried tebowing the other day and had to call the automobile club to help me get back up. and oh, those hot looking quarterbacks of today. hut one. hut two. his nickname is ice because he is so cool but i prefer steam because he's so hot. woo hoo! woo hoo! >> all right. so betty white is a matty ice fan but it was drew brees getting it done. check this out.

look what he does. he scores, pulls the christmas bow out of his pants, sticks it on the ball, and gives it to a fan. cute but it cost the team a 15-yard penalty. unsportsman like conduct. 30 seconds left in the half. drew brees back to pass avoids the sack. hits his big tight end for a touchdown. the celebration, dunking it on the goal post. 21-10 saints at the break. fourth quarter brees hits the goals over the middle for a nine-yard touchdown. that is the moment brees surpasses dan marino to set a new nfl record for most passing yards in a single season with 5,087. celebrating with his teammates. that is a record that had stood for 27 years. marino offered congratulations on twitter writing great job by a special player. brees 307 yards four touch downes fueled the saints 45-16 rout of the falcons clinching the nfc south for new orleans. the nfc playoff picture pretty much set with the exception of

the cowboys/giants game on sunday. the winner there is in the postseason. in the afc the bengals still fighting for a wild card spot with the raiders, titans, and jets still in the hunt. missouri/north carolina independence bowl last night. we show you this because organizers were left scrambling right before kickoff to find a replacement trophy after missouri's mascot truman the tiger allegedly dropped it, shattering the crystal bowl. we'll go to the game, missouri, with a little trick play on the first possession. wes kemp wide open for the touchdown. tigers win. the team is presented with a replacement trophy that apparently was supplied by a local jewelry store. up next a look back on our visit to chicago where we sat down with the one and only oprah winfrey. keep it on "morning joe" and we'll be right back. let

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welcome back. among the many special guests last year only a handful can be called by just their first name. oprah was one of them. earlier in the year we visited the queen of talk in her hometown of chicago where she discussed with us the end of her day time talk show and her support for then senator obama during the 2008 presidential campaign. >> who would have believed that a guy that you knew when he was in the state senate would so quickly move up and become president? >> i believed it. i believed it. >> you did. >> i believed it. >> in south carolina. >> i believed it. >> you've never gotten involved in politics. but yet you went to south carolina and just made a huge difference for him. >> i could actually feel -- when we walked into south carolina, i

remember that, we had just been in iowa the day before and when we moved into south carolina that day, i could feel a difference in the audience when we came in and when we left. i could feel that shift. you know? so i believed from the first moment i saw him in 2004 at the democratic national convention, i was watching alone and cheering and i, you know, felt something. and i move on instinct in my life and i just felt what i really felt was that one day this man will be president of the united states. i did not think it would be in 2008. i just thought one day it will happen. i hope i'm alive to see it. >> the most remarkable thing about that moment for me -- >> what? >> tom and i have talked a good bit about race before and about how there's like a dividing line for people that are 46 or 47, old world/new world. what was amazing i looked at that picture and, wow, that's really great. and then -- >> this is the democratic convention? >> no, no. in south carolina. >> okay. south carolina. >> it only hit me a few minutes

later, wait a second. those are three african-americans up there and i didn't think oh, there's an african-american running for president or, oh, there's -- all i saw was a guy and a woman who i went to law school with or the type of -- >> really. >> i didn't go to law school with him. i'm just saying, okay. i can relate to them. then i saw you. i said, oh, tv entertainer. and you talk about something that i think a campaign and also that moment that really broke down -- >> isn't that cool? >> broke down i believe racial barriers when people stopped saying oh, this is special because it's an african-american. no. >> just three people. >> just three leaders. >> well i'm glad you felt that way. i remember coming off the stage and the guy who does my hair for 25 years, andre, said, gee, that was a moment. that was really something. to see the three of you standing there. that was great. >> there was another moment too at grant park on election night when the president, the family

came out. when you were crying and the reverend jackson who is back stage and out in a minute was crying. talk about what you were feeling on that night. >> well, i think, i was feeling like, this actually happened. it really happened. and i looked over and i saw reverend jackson and i was thinking about him and what he must be feeling. i'm sure you're going to talk to him about this. i've never even talked to him about it. i was thinking about him being there on the balcony with martin luther king and then being able to stand there in grant park. >> how are you feeling now? you obviously have a lot of power and ability to connect with people. how are you feeling about the mood of the country and obama's leadership? >> i'm feeling great. i feel that everybody has a learning curve. and i feel that what i -- the reason why i was willing to step up for him is i believed in his integrity and i believed in his

heart and i believed that what he really wants for this country is for this country to be greater, stronger, more innovative. and i believe that those principles are what really enforce his beliefs. >> let's talk about tv now. you completely changed it. you could have rode this out making $80 billion a year but you decided -- it is around 80 billion if you round down. >> it really doesn't matter. >> you decided to jump. to start your own network. you would have been much safer to say oh, i'm going to go home. i'm just going to travel the world. i'm going to give some money. but no. you started a network. that can be a very, very ugly proposition. >> yeah. and, you know, it is challenging. i have to tell you. it is very challenging. >> listening to the conversation this morning, your network, your

friendship with the president of the united states, that young woman who showed up in chicago in september of 1983 looking for a job. >> yes. >> and was going to go into pr if she didn't get the job, does that young woman now fast forward all these years later, do you ever worry about someone shaking you and saying, oprah, it's time to get up and go to school? >> all been a dream. >> it's such a compelling american story. your story. >> only in america could the story happen. only in america could this story happen. no, i really live in the moment of, yes, this is going on and now i must, you know, embrace this moment like i have to leave here and doing a live show this morning with all the ladies from "the view" so i will take that in. one of the things i wanted to do this 25th season my farewell season of the oprah show was to be able to do exactly what you're saying and that is take in every moment and not take one moment for granted so every time i come out and that audience is there and they come from across

town and 80% of them have come from across the country to appreciate what it took to get them in the seats, to appreciate whatever that show is, to not, you know, be the girl at the wedding who wakes up and says, you know, what really happened at the wedding? >> in your behind-the-scenes program it's great to see all the people in your life that make it happen. and how unbelievably dedicated they are. >> we are a force. >> 24/7. >> yeah. we are a force. >> you got to love it. you got to want to do it. and they do. >> i love my team. i think i have the best team in tv. i know we all do. but i think i have the best team in tv and they are responsible along with the audience for us having 25 years of success in the greatest city in america. >> let me ask you, willie. >> willie has to speak. >> i know. >> they said you're going to love willie. i twit erd and said i'm a little nervous about doing "morning joe." >> are you still nervous? >> no. i see the flow is really good. >> gayle and i had a little thing going. my wife is aware. >> it's appropriate e-mailing.

>> just e-mail. >> why did you decide instead of just taking a victory lap and going to tackling -- >> because i love the platform. as you know, there is nothing like it for sharing ideas, for sharing information, and i think that the landscape is not so good out there for a lot of television. >> right. >> and so i wanted to be able to continue with a platform to be able to be a force for good in the world. able to say meaningful things. >> i'm not going to ask you to analyze yourself. >> please don't. >> yo >> you're talking about our show. you have people running 30 minutes of balloon boy while we're doing press conference ness japan. i'm serious. in your time slot on a much bigger scale there are a lot of people that came in and tried to beaton today oyou and today we three headed mother.

>> there have been over 127 talk shows that started since i have. >> what separated yours and how were you able to rise above, have great programming, and draw the audience? >> because i made a decision in the '90s. i was interviewing skin heads and the ku klux klan. >> right. >> we just did that last week. go ahead. >> and i made a decision, there was a moment during a commercial break where one of them said, get her! and i made a decision that i was not going to use the platform for anything that i thought would not bring a little piece of light into people's lives. and i realized that oh, while i think i'm interviewing skin heads and showing how egregious they can be and all that, that really i am giving them a voice and so i made a decision that when i'm going to use this platform i'm going to use it to give a voice for that which i think can be helpful to people. >> oprah winfrey with us back in february. as you pointed out, governor, mike barnicle wears a tie only for oprah. >> stunning.

>> oprah by the way spoke to nearly 28,000 guests, gave away 570 cars in the 25 years the oprah winfrey show was on the air. now she's running the own network. later on our morning joe rewind we'll see larry king's visit to the set here on "morning joe." still ahead here, president obama gets a mouthful while vacationing in hawaii. also at the top of the hour the voting begins one week from today in iowa. we will handicap the race when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ sen♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ut the second at she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪

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chipmunk family reunion. someone stole the nuts. squirrel jail. justice! countless discounts. now that's progressive. call or click today. time for prerecording of mika brzenzski. president obama is vacationing in hawaii visiting a marine corps base on christmas day encountering something he doesn't see a lot of. a hand in his mouth. the good news, it was a baby's hand. 8-month-old baby belonged to marine corps captain greg wagner. they're posing for a photograph and only an adorable baby can get away with that. putting the whole hand right there in the mouth of the leader of the free world. >> what do you think that baby will do in later life? >> one thing is keep that picture. >> absolutely. >> that is a picture for life.

the president had two little girls. he knows how to handle the baby with the hand in the mouth. good work by the president. some favorite clips in the news you can't use segment. this is an all-time great. go back to october. south african biker in a race, taken out by a 300-pound beast. about 30 miles an hour that beast was out for a run of its own. takes out the guy. incredibly, the cyclist broke only his helmet in this incident. got up and walked away from it. give you some more of those over the course of the weeks. next, "new york times" columnist gail collins will join us. keep it on "morning joe." capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash.

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the republicans lost the seat before in nevada and new jersey for example and colorado. there were people who claim that they wanted somebody who was more of their tea party aspect but in doing so they killed off the republican chances for a majority. this is one reason why we have a minority in the senate right now. >> republican senator dick lugar talking about the tea party. welcome back to "morning joe" at 7:00 in the morning here in new york city. joe and mika are off this week.

i'm joined by former governor ed rendell, reverend al sharpton. also ezra klein and matt lewis with us in washington. now joining the table the "new york times" columnist gail collins also the author of the upcoming book "william henry harrison." merry christmas. >> been waiting for that. >> we've been waiting for the book on harrison. when is the book out? >> about a week or two. >> we'll have you back to talk about that. i want to talk about your column today. we were just discussing, i was off last week and watching from afar. it was heralded as this great achievement we extended for two months, payroll tax. >> a tax cut. >> yes. payroll tax for two months. we did it. we can go home for christmas. of course we'll do this again now in two months. i want to read part of your piece. remember the republican alamo. you write, we've talked for nearly three years about how the tea party is terrorizing the republican establishment until the old country club deal making model was verging on extinction. but if the new populist right does something that actually

endangers the well being of the old, entitled right, the establishment will rise up and slap those little whipper snappers down faster than you can say mitch mcconnell. that goes for the presidential nomination, too. the minute it began to look as if newt gingrich might actually win, mitt romney was flooded with money and endorsements. everywhere you look in iowa there is an evil demented newt on the screen. in response he could only whine. gail? >> you know, they are in charge. everybody keeps talking about the tea party. poor, regular republicans. they're under attack. under fire. they can't move. if the tea party gets in their way they can. i think for the regular republicans the tea party is really useful. it pushes things farther, much farther than they could do by themselves. >> as you say it has drawn out some of the establishment too. when they see it going too far they pop their heads up. >> suddenly the old john mccain yelling at them and "the wall street journal" editorial page is yelling at them. you can only go as far as it

endangers you. >> don't you think that it's going to be a much harder fight two months down the road as willie said? because there the rubber is going to really hit the road. it's how you pay for it. and there unless there is a spirit of compromise, the tea party drives no compromise, then i think they're in big trouble again. there's got to be a meeting of the minds on that and who knows where the tea party is going to be and who knows whether you'll be able to reach compromise? i think that was just act i of this scenario. >> we'll just keep doing this for sure. but i do not believe in an election year you are going to see that tax rise again. >> so how do you think they'll pay for it? >> oh, i would want to bet another one of those things where what did they do with this last one? they added a fee for freddie mac for a whole year but it covers two months of this. >> right. >> so they always think of these things. >> matt lewis, what has been a year and change now since those elections of 2010, the mid-term elections? what has been the net effect of

the tea party now candidates now congressmen and women in the congress? >> well, i think you're right. it's only -- it seems like it's been a long time but not quite a year. i mean, i think that at the end of the day, we have to keep in mind the good old ways, right? we're all sort of sitting around saying, man, i wish they could get things done and work together. the extreme version of that of course is insiders and smoke-filled rooms not listening to the public. the tea party movement essentially what you have is the opposite of that. maybe a reaction to that where you have the -- these folks who come to washington who are not connected to the system in any way who actually view compromise as a bad thing. i think that ultimately what we're going to have is something in the middle where you have -- where you pick your battles. that has been the problem with the tea party in my estimation is that they stand on principle and that is a very good thing except you have to pick your hill to die on.

and i think that the danger we just saw with this -- this extension, the two-month extension, is that they almost put us in a position where the republican party is no longer the party of tax cuts. so i think that there was a real danger. at the end of the day, look, we're better off because the tea party won. there is no doubt about it. but hopefully as we move forward things will be a little bit smoother. >> willie, i would disagree. i don't think the tea party listens to the people at all. i think a lot of their views are tremendously divergent with what the american people think. >> they listen to their people, their constituents. >> the american people want compromise and want government to work. overwhelmingly even republican voters do. the american people want the richest americans to pay their fair share. even republicans do. >> and i think they want to see this type of compromise. i think the one thing that i agree with gail in her column is when the established republican leadership decided to come in like the adults came in the room, i think that they're going

to try to make sure they don't have this showdown in two months. i think if you have a romney sweep iowa and new hampshire, the tea party loses some of its edge. if you have a presumed nominee that we now have to show unity. and i think as one that's been an activist i was younger and more volatile, you get older and you're still an activist. you do choose what hill you want to die on. choosing a hill on where you're going to raise taxes on the middle class in the middle of an election is not exactly the hill you want to hang your hat on. >> ezra, what did we learn over the course of this fight over the payroll tax cut? because again as i say the idea that this is some great achievement for washington coming together to get this done, it was a two-month temporary kick the can down the road solution. what did we learn about the way we do business? >> it's appalling to see what the achievement is this year. the big wins we didn't shut down the government and didn't let the payroll tax cut expire.

you know, this congress has been the least productive in its first year since ever actually. the 1947-1948 do nothing congress harry truman ran against was a more productive congress than this one. they got more done. when we're talking about the effect the tea party actually ended up having i think there was one question as to whether or not they're representing people, i think right now the tea party polls quite poorly. the bigger question for conservatives is, is it working? is it helping them achieve big things? and i was struck sort of taking a step back and looking at the negotiations this year. there are some pretty center right compromises offered in the obama compromise, significant cuts to entitlements and would not have raised taxes very much, much less letting bush tax cuts expire. boehner was never able to take a compromise and the result of that now is the status quo in america, the thing that happens if congress can't come to an agreement is taxes automatically go up by $4 trillion. there is $1.2 trillion in spending cuts half of which come

from the pentagon. it is a vastly further left deal than any democrat has ever offered and has come because the republicans are driven in some ways by the tea party and have not been able to actually come to a compromise. over the weekend bob woodward had a piece in "the post" where he looked back at 1990 and the way gingrich walked out on the george h.w. bush negotiations and the outcome was bush had to go back to the democrats, get more votes, and add more tax increases into the 1990 budget bill. i wonder if when folks look back on the tea party they aren't going to see in the end a similar dynamic having played out. >> ezra, you wrote a great piece. i want to read part of it. 2011 the year of the economic after shocks. 2009 the year of the financial crisis, the economy lost more than 5 million jobs that year. by 2010 we seemed to turn the corner. the economy added more than a million jobs. growth returned, the financial markets stabilized. many forecasters looked to 2011 with real optimism. instead, 2011 has been the year of the aftershocks. it's become clear that, no, this is not in fact over. worse, it might not be over for

a long time. ezra, what are you reading? what numbers are you looking at when you write that? >> there are two big after shocks i identify. one is europe. europe was catalyzed by the financial crisis. before that italy and spain were cutting deficits significantly. greece bad shape sure but the continent as a whole looked to be a pretty big success story. the financial crisis absolutely cracked it apart and uncovered real, deep structural flaws inside the eurozone. that's our biggest headwind going into 2012. the other one which we were sort of just talking about is the divided politics here. there was a big reaction in march driven by the bad economy, 2010, brought in the tea party, brought in the house republican majority. you can agree with them or disagree with them but it's led to a congress that can't seem to get anything done, the least productive congress since we've been keeping statistics on these kinds of things. that's made us increasingly unable to handle new economic shocks. we haven't done anything major on the deficit, haven't done

anything major on jobs. so our capacity to respond to this type of economic moment is reduced as well. so in europe you have a bad -- a real dangerous economic situation. here you have a very, very rough political situation. and this is all part of the 2009 financial crisis. it is all an after shock. >> gail, of course, the numbers ezra is talking about will be central to the presidential election. we'll be watching so closely the unemployment rate down to 8.6%. the white house would like you to look at that number. when you dig down and look at the fundamentals of the economy they are not strong. >> this election, unless something really spectacularly amazingly wonderfully exciting happens is going to be about whether people believe that mitt romney could do better with the economy than barack obama is doing. and that's going to be the entire story. and no matter what other stuff we talk about, that'll be it. >> no question about it. and the voting in iowa begins one week from today. >> get out there, iowans. it's time to vote. >> we've been debating since may, had gaffes, this

rollercoaster ride, rick perry and herman cain and michele bachmann all cycled through. >> is this rick santorum's time? his moment? >> some suggest that he could be nipping -- donald trump, he might come back, reverend sharpton. >> palin. who knows? >> where do you think we are, gail, right now? have we kind of come full circle where we started, mitt romney was the guy and then maybe he wasn't the guy? are we back now at the republican party -- >> i think going along and saying, no, no. please, god, not mitt romney. let's have x -- oh, good lord, no. and then they're done. they've gone through z and unless rick santorum makes his big move now, this is good. mitt romney all the way. >> i think the -- as you go into the election, when you look at romney's ad that he put on now in iowa, his arguing what he did as governor, i think if you trans fix that over what gail just said, he's going to run on

i balanced the budget. i did this. i did that. the president is going to run on well who do you think could handle this crisis using ezra's -- the after shock, him or me? so the president is not going to necessarily run on i've been able to do this, that, or the other. he is going to run on, we were at the brink. i walked it back. who do you think completed the task? i think that's what willard is going to have to sell. i don't know that he can sell that. >> willard with such respect. that's his first name. >> i think one thing that you can't overlook in that analysis, al, is the competence factor. i think americans want a competent president. and the president's done some things very, very well, but there are some doubts about whether he can handle the job. mitt romney's strong suit is, i ran a business. you may not have liked what we did but it was very successful. i rescued the olympics. as governor of massachusetts i got things done. i had a heavily democratic legislature and i got things

done. >> and he flip flopped on every major issue and he got a lot of people laid off when bain was moving from job to job. >> i'm not arguing for him. all i'm saying is that is the proposition he will put forward. i'm the guy who can make it work. i'm the guy who can bring this together. >> but on tuesday i might disagree with what i said on monday. >> there is that kind of do you want to hang out with mitt romney for the next four years, america, as a guy that you can really stand having on tv every night. that is a very large -- >> mitt romney versus al gore. >> wow. there's competence versus competence. >> who would you hang out with? >> it seems to me the contrast reverend sharpton has drawn is one mitt romney might like as governor rendell points out. who can handle this better? mitt romney can say well you had four years to handle this better and you didn't. look where we are. mitt romney likes the competence question doesn't he? >> i think so. that's his strength. i think that if mitt romney gets the nomination it will be incredibly close race. i think voters are going to see him as competent.

i think some of the flip flop stuff and moderate stuff may be actually helping him in a general election that he's not perceived as being too ideological. i do think that you're going to see a billion dollars worth of tv ads spent by barack obama casting him as gordon geko, as this creature of wall street. that will be the attack, make no mistake about it. at the end of the day i think it will be very close. my question is not a national race but if you look at the states, can barack obama win north carolina again, win indiana again? these states that are very important that he won last time i wonder if you start to look at it electorally i think mitt romney maybe you give him the edge if that's the general election. >> except remember what did barack obama get in '08? 360 electoral votes? >> yes. >> it only takes 270 to win. >> which is why a lot of us are concerned about things like voter i.d. and early voting. >> right. >> because i think you can nip away with that if you change, if you cut the ring off.

if we have the same ring we had in '08 i'm more confident. i'm concerned as most of the civil rights community is about somewhat the changing of how voting is going to happen in 2012. >> what's the voter excitement like out there among democrats right now? there was this enthusiasm in 2008 among young people, among minority voters. how does the president recreate that in 2012 when they're not feeling as excited about hope and change as they were four years ago? >> i think there is clearly not the same enthusiasm, but i think that there can be a different kind of enthusiasm because where in '08 we wanted to bring something in, i think in 2012 it's going to be we want to stop forces from taking over that we consider regressive and anti -- so sometime when you don't have a progressive kind of enthusiasm, you can have the fear of a regressive kind of enthusiasm. >> reverend sharpton is right.

sometimes hate or fear is the greatest motivator to get people to the polls. that's where mitt romney is strong. he doesn't have the same fear factor among democrats as some of the wacko conservatives have. i mean, a lot of democrats say, well, boy, he's pretty bland or this or that but they don't think he is going to come in and -- >> but you have two candidates, neither one of whom is going to get their marginal people coming out to vote. this is going to be a low turnout election. >> don't you think that the republican base comes out because of anti-obama antipathy? >> yeah. but not your new people who have been drawn in say to the tea party because they're excited about all the stuff with the tea party. >> don't forget the possibility especially if mitt romney is the nominee of a third party. someone like gary johnson who is going to probably run as a libertarian. if ron paul and i don't think he is going to do it but if ron paul were to run as a third party that alone could guarantee barack obama's re-election. it could be like ross perot all over again. >> which is why he probably won't do it don't you think? >> the reason he won't do it is

his son rand paul who i think will run for president in the future and i think will combine the sort of libertarian passion that ron paul has with a more credible republican polish. >> he's got a -- mitt romney has an ad out right now in iowa where he is touting his conservative credentials. he's come under a lot of fire from his own party for not being conservative enough. now he's up in iowa touting his record. here's what he said. >> i'm going to do something to government. i'm going to make it simpler and smaller and smarter. getting rid of programs. turning programs back to states and, finally, making government itself more efficient. i'm going to get rid of obama care. it is a moral imperative for america to stop spending more money than we take in. it's killing jobs and it's keeping our kids from having the bright prospects they deserve. the experience of balancing budgets is desperately needed in washington and i will take it there. i'm mitt romney. and i approve this message. >> mitt romney's got his big speech tonight in the state of

iowa. joining us from des moines nbc correspondent peter alexander. good morning. >> reporter: good morning to you, willie. welcome back. sorry not to see you with joe and mika's slippers on this morning. >> that was a sight. we'll fill people in on that later. "way too early" joe and mika jamies and slippers on national television. we're a week out now. where do we stand and who are you following? >> reporter: well, you know, i think what's interesting is that all of these candidates took a break over the holiday to be with their families, which is tradition often times but here everybody we've spoken to says this doesn't have the same intensity that iowa has had in past years. obviously the state as some headlines have said is still iowa, the undecided. a lot of people as we've noted throughout the course of the morning on your broadcast really haven't fallen in love with any of the candidates yet. what happens here could really dictate, be determinative of who becomes the gop nominee here, mitt romney if he comes out well. if he out performs some of the expectations really could run the table if he also does well

in new hampshire where recent polls show him doing so well. newt gingrich, who has said he would run a positive only campaign and had told people, anybody who would listen, if you hear mitt romney or another candidate saying something negative, tell them enough with that. overnight he was out at least his campaign was out with a new negative e-mail that was attacking mitt romney. mitt the moderate it listed. and took mitt romney to task for a new campaign ad that he released just yesterday on monday. >> and, peter, one of the central questions of this race we've been talking about this morning was whetheor not mitt romney would in fact play in iowa. whether he was going to invest in iowa, put the money to raise the expectations there. it looks now if you look at how much money is being spent not just by him but by pacs supporting mitt romney that he is in fact paying, playing in iowa and thinks he has a shot to win there. >> i think that's very much the case. the folks we've spoken to here may not love mitt romney but right now they're not really clear on who to love. there has been a lot of

infighting back and forth, sort of a flavor of the month mentality throughout this caucus. here specifically in iowa, throughout the republican campaign, so far. and a lot of people who had said initially that they had liked someone more conservative now have acknowledged there's some need to find a candidate they believe who can compete with barack obama. it's worth noting today as we stand out in 34-degree temperatures this is the forecast high for today. barack obama the president who is here in this state exactly four years ago is now vacationing on the beaches in hawaii. the american people, the people of iowa they say should be furious the president is not out doing their work and they hope to find a candidate who can beat the president whether that is ron paul who is said to be favorite among many iowans we'll have to wait and see. >> nice to be the incumbent. you don't have to go through primary process. i think he is entitled to sit on the beach. >> i think iowans expect him to go to des moines in january for his vacation. >> iowans won't go to des moines

for their vacation. >> peter alexander on the trail in des moines, iowa. thanks so much. we'll talk to you soon. coming up, he wrote the definitive biography on the late steve jobs. a look back at our interview with author walter isaacson coming up a little bit later. plus from the arab spring to occupy wall street, bloomberg business week breaks down the year in protests. and what we could see next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ child ] it's so cool! you can put a force field on him and be invisible! [ child 2 ] i call first player. no. i already called it. [ dad ] nobody's playing anything until after we get our homework done. thank you. hello? test drive's not over yet. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. [ louder ] hello? but we still need your signature. right now during sign then drive, it's never been easier to get the all-new passat, the 2012 motor trend car of the year, for practically just your signature.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 7:24 in the morning. joining us the editor of bloomberg business week, josh tearingale. the latest issue "the year of the fist." good to see you. >> good to see you. >> i love this magazine. you call it "the year of the fist." what do you mean? >> it was an angry, angry year. there were three big stories that we saw.

the first was the arab spring. and what you saw from country to country to country was this just incredible anger at the systems that were in place. and it spread. we've seen this in the past. 1989 was a year where there was anger at various governments in eastern europe. it took a while to spread. here what started spread so very quickly and there were just angry people in the streets. they were united in their anger. it didn't matter which government they were responding to. that's one example. then you've got the eurozone. which is a second big story for us this year. and what you saw was people furious at their governments. in some ways not comprehending how they had gotten into the situations they had gotten into. and governments incapable of explaining to them. and so those people were furious, too. and whether that was ainge inner tinner -- anger in the streets of london which isn't something any of us anticipated to greece to italy to spain the fury at their leaders, the fury at parts of business they didn't understand was remarkable. and then the third big story was occupy wall street and the 91% and 1%.

we come at it from a slightly different angle. the 1% are my people, the readers of bloomberg business week. at the same time we saw the ainge frer the occupy side. and the real, you know, here i think there was greater understanding of the way financial markets work actually in europe but the same level of fury. the sort of uncovered part of this is that banks lost 200,000 jobs this year. the sector is not actually doing well. we talk to a lot of people. we throw the kitchen sink at this issue. it's essays, photo essayas, timelines. we have a mad magazine foldout in there where you actually fold things up. we spoke to people in the banking sector and they said we get why occupy wall street is out there. they really should have been here in 2007 when bank profits were enormous. this year you see bank of america trading at $5 a share in december, goldman sachs being down losing money 21 days in november. morgan stanley losing 31 days consecutively. i mean, there were a lot of bad news for investment banks in the united states this year.

it all, you know, came together in this incredibly angry year. >> the banks may not be doing as well as in the past but still doing okay for themselves. >> i don't think anybody is crying for them. >> perhaps the question we should ask is has anything changed as a result of all this anger we saw in the streets? or better put, will anything change as a result of all this anger? >> i think that's going to be the test. not only in this country but around the arab world and north africa and europe. because at the end of the day if the anger is not used to transform or change something, a lot of people feel let down, some betrayed, and i think that is the test is going to be this year, this coming year and next. who takes these countries where you saw a lot of these rulers overturned? and what becomes the new economic policies after occupy? other than that, we had a moment not a movement and i think that i've seen that happen too often

in life to where you say, well where is this going to go? and look at what's going on in egypt right now where, yeah. mubarak is gone but what is there and how does that settle? i think that's going to be a real challenge. whether it's change or just an expression of anger. and i think that we've got to have that anger drive a new day. otherwise we're just venting and not changing. >> josh, how did wall street -- how do your readers really look at occupy wall street? this is a real threat. do they -- is there a moment of self-evaluation where they say maybe we should change our ways? or do they just look and say traffic is going to be terrible today? these people are in the streets. >> what is interesting is the incredible level of discipline that particularly on wall street was exercised in the face of occupy wall street. you didn't hear a lot of people complaining about it, bemoaning it, saying that these people like newt gingrich should get a job. i think there is a recognition that something in the country has changed. dodd/frank had something to do with that. when we talk about things that

have changed in the last couple years dodd/frank has a big impact on the way wall street does business. what they will complain about is regulation and dodd/frank and the inability to make as much money as they used to make. you don't hear them saying these guys are crazy. get them out of the way. so there is some sensitivity to it. whether that indicates a kind of change of behavior, you know, we'll have to see. >> what next for occupy? >> you know, it's going to be cold out there for quite sometime to come. i'm not expecting to see a whole lot more occupying going on until the weather gets warmer. but it's not the movement itself is too fluid and too unbased to actually do much more than draw media attention to stuff. if there is going to be actual change going on it's actually going to have to be the political parties getting their act together and doing it. you're going to have to see a democratic party that actually figures out what it is that's going to -- it would do if it got elected, got a majority in congress. you'd have to see a republican party that could do better than say, well, mitt romney is really making it up when he is saying

all these crazy things. it'll be fine later on. both parties would have to do a whole lot better if you're going to get real change. >> we won't hold our breath for that. josh, what else are you looking at? i know home ownership was a big one with you guys this year. the housing hangover sort of. >> and really when are we going to find the bottom? so much of the american, of the domestic economy problem is based in the fact that people's money is invested in their homes and, you know, when we find bottom, you'll begin to see people feel a little bit better, a little more mobility. you know, where there are jobs, people can't move the same way they used to because they're tied into all this debt with their homes. they can't really figure out how to get out from under it, refinancing is a real challenge. it's not as easy as people might say. housing is a big issue. another story that we overlook that's kind of a happy story is silicon valley. they live in their own little bubble out there for most of the year but it shows you what the future could look like in a brain based economy. you know, housing is up.

jobs are up. interns are getting paid incredible amounts of money. there is a war over interns at facebook and google. these are rare skills and so the competition for them is enormous. we have a great piece by brad stone who covers the valley about what it means when you're the happy place in america. and it's easy to sort of bemoan it and say that's not the way we live. but there are lessons to be drawn from the way silicon valley is structured, from the value placed on intellectual property and really on the best brains in the world. if we educate people it's a window into the future if we can be smart enough. >> can you build an economy on that? is that too small a sliver of the population? >> you can't build a global economy on it. >> an american economy? >> you can, yeah. i mean, it's a window into a way we should be going, which is educate people. drive innovation. you know, the fact that there's money to be spent on things like groupon, record amounts of venture capital shows you there's hunger for bright ideas and silicon valley is generating more than anyplace else in the u.s. >> thank you so much.

bloomberg business week has become a must read. you've done such a great job. the year in review. the year of the fist. thanks so much. >> thanks. >> good to see you. still ahead our interview with larry king. we'll ask him about his front row seat to history. keep it on "morning joe."

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gail we have a brief moment. did you worry when you were preparing your book about william harry harrison that everything had already been said about him? did america really need another biography of william henry harrison? how did you choose him? >> you know, the actual true story is i was home in cincinnati doing publicity for another book which is about presidential gossip, and william henry harrison is also from cincinnati and i'm telling my parents that he was manufactured as a candidate as this really poor soldier but was really very rich and lived in a big house. my father said it was a big house. i know because i tore it down. and he did. >> is that right?

>> he was working for the power plant and they wanted to get rid of it and sent them out one night to tear it down. >> wow. >> i felt i owed him one. >> so a big phony. the more things change the more they stay the same in politics. >> totally. he was the first manufactured candidate. and then he gave that speech after his inauguration so that was the story. >> he really wasn't a poor soldier? >> oh, no. my gosh. his father signed the declaration of independence. >> next you'll tell me george washington really told a lie one time. >> that's the tease. we'll have you back next week to talk about the new book. >> cool. >> gail collins, great to see you. >> great to be here. >> the upcoming book is william henry harrison. still ahead dave zirin breaks down some of the biggest stories in sports and athletes who shaped the world around them. walter isaacson's definitive biography on steve jobs. we'll be back in a moment. [ male announcer ] you have plans...

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welcome back to "morning joe" a beautiful live picture of central park and the upper west side here in new york city. on october 5th of this year the world lost one of the leading innovators of the 20th and 21st century when apple cofounder steve jobs died of pancreatic cancer. we sat down to talk with the man who wrote the authorized biography of jobs. here's our "morning joe" rewind with walter isaacson. >> let's talk, something as a guy that's always loved music, that's always been inspired by music, and whenever i need to figure out what to do i don't call a meeting. i put on my ear phones and i walk. >> right. >> this is -- music inspired steve jobs in a remarkable way. more than technology.

talk about that. >> yeah. first of all, dillon is a sound track of his life. he said the reason we were able to make the ipod and other companies weren't is because i'm passionate and we're passionate about music. i asked him at one point recently before he died to show me the music on his ipad 2 that he had just transferred. we went through everything from the beatles of course every beatles song and dylan and then he did "strawberry fields forever" which is the bootleg tapes he has of "strawberry fields" where they go through about 15 variations and you hear lennon rewinding and changing, saying hitting the wrong chord, and mccartney pushing back on him. this is exactly the way we work at apple he said. i've used these boot legs of "strawberry fields" as sort of our management technique of constantly perfecting it and then being able to rewind and start all over when you don't think you have it right. >> so it was management by the beatles. >> right. exactly. you know, one of the things is

he couldn't get the beatles on i-tunes or anything because they'd been in lawsuits since 1977 when they call it apple computer and apple core is the beatles label. they get sued and they make a deal early on which is that apple computer will not do music and the beatles promise not to make computers. all the beatles kept the deal. none made computers but apple keeps moving into the music business and every time they do it -- they finally, you know, right at the end of steve's life it got totally resolved. the beatles came on i-tunes store and life was good. >> here is the counterculture hippie guy that went to india, liked the beatles, dropped acid, liked the beatles. a guy who once famously said bill gates would have been a better ceo if he, too, had dropped acid. it was far from fun and games inside apple. >> you know, part of what steve's personality is these two sides, sort of the counter culture, you know, hippie, poetic, mystical side, then the

hard nosed, strong, business and engineering side. the connection of that -- the creativity and poetry to the technology is what apple and steve have always been about. that comes from sort of the trips to india, the countercultural lifestyle he started with. >> there is a parallel here in a sense i think with einstein who when you wrote your einstein biography said there may have been other scientists whose minds may have been greater than einstein's but he saw things differently. he imagined things. he visualized things. he stepped out of where he was. and allowed him to see the world differently. >> that is a really good point which people haven't picked up on before, which is this notion of think different. and why, you know, einstein obviously is a truly great genius in a different quantum orbit than even steve jobs as

steve's biggest fans would admit. however, einstein wasn't necessarily the smartest in terms of mental processing power, a physicist at his time. he couldn't even get a job at a university. he was a patent clerk. yet people who were coming up with sort of the equations, special relativity, david hillberg who does general relativity. but none of them thought out of the box and thought differently and said, this means everything is different. it means time is not absolute. it means the fabric of space is bent. this is what steve jobs did is not be smarter than bill gates but sort of step back and think different. >> he had a personal side that could be dark, that had some tough decisions he's made in his life, some would say very difficult for women, the women in his life, the daughter in his life at times. not a pretty picture. when you're writing this book, i haven't read it yet, i can't wait, do you make the case that you can't have the crazy brilliant without the dark side? or how do you characterize some of the weaker points of his

personality some of which are very weak? >> well, he makes the point that this is who i am. he said, you know, you can try velvet gloved way of treating all your colleagues and always being kind and polite, but for me if you want to make a dent in the universe it doesn't help to be wearing velvet gloves. i've got to be brutally honest. that is the price of admission to the room. >> there is a case there. >> yeah. he made the case of, a, it's who i am and, b, i'm stopping what is called the bozo explosion and that happens in other companies, because i'm brutally honest. >> it is the price of admission to his success. >> the price of admission to being part of apple and being around him is that he said, i get to tell you, you're full of it. you get to tell me i'm full of it. we're brutally honest. when it comes to the family and when it comes to his professional colleagues, you also have to look at the results. in the end, he's got a team of loyal a players at apple who are not leaving the way they do at every other company. they stick around. secondly, with his family, all

four of his children close to him by the end, with him when he's ill. a loving wife of more than 20 years. his sister the novelist mona simpson. so you have to look at the arc of the narrative that even though the guy can be prickly he inspires more loyalty and love than most of us get to do. >> but what moment after he came back, was it the second he put up the think different commercial? did he already know where he wanted to go when he came back? >> i'll tell you what happened. >> it happened in 2001 with the ipod. when was it? >> there were two or three times. first he comes back and he says show me the products. there are about 37 different mcintoshes. he says, explain to me what all these computers are. why are we making so many -- he said, well, in order to satisfy retailers or whatever we keep making new models. he finally says, focus. he puts a white board up and puts four squares. he says we're going to make four computers. lap top, desk top, home, professional. four computers. that's it.

focus. get rid of everything else. so that puts apple ontrack for focus. second thing is he writes that manifesto think different. it's not a product ad. it is a manifesto for the company. hears to the misfits, crazy ones, the rebels. it ends with those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do. that sort of sets apple as the rebel computer company. then finally the third great transformation is when he says we're not just going to be a computer company. we've now licked the computer desk top and lap top thing. we're going to become a hub for all your digital devices. that's where ipod, iphone, ipad come in. >> wow. >> you say in the book, walter, something, you say it's -- his success is often misunderstood. people say the key thing for him was when he was fired from apple the first time. you say in the book in fact the key thing for him was failing with products. >> correct. >> explain that. >> when he gets fired at apple in 1985 it's like he's being

abandoned by all of these people, the company he started, and people say that matured him. what actually i think matured him was the wilderness years when he's at nex computer and start'd company and indulges all of his -- it cost a huge amount because you have to have special molds because he won't let it be 89 degrees or 91 like wow do to get something out easily. he pays a hundred thousand dollars just for that logo. he builds a factory with pristine white walls. every single perfectionist instinct of steve jobs is poured into the next computer. it becomes a great computer nobody buys because it is way over priced and way late and then he realizes that the maxims he used to say at the old apple, number one was don't compromise. well, you don't need to compromise your passion for perfection but every now and then you have to make it so you can have a real consumer product. that is what helped him succeed

the second time around. >> wow. >> "fortune" magazine reporting that isaacson is planning to expand the that isaacson planned to expand the book to include the period surrounding the death of steve jobs. on tomorrow's show, "hardball's" chris matthews will join us on set here in new york. more "morning joe" in a moment. what is it about taking a first step that we find so compelling? is it because taking a step represents hope? or triumph? at genworth, we believe in taking small steps every day to keep your promises, protect what matters, and prepare for a secure financial future. no matter where you want to go, one step at a time is the only way to get there.

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on "morning joe" tomorrow, we look back at our interviews that year with george clooney and betty white, two of our favorites from the year. ahead this morning, it is exactly one week now from the iowa caucuses. after all the talk, the voting finally begins. we will break down the republican race for president when "morning joe" comes right back.

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i'm gonna do something to government. i'm gonna make it simpler and

small and smarter, getting rid of programs, turning programs back to states and finally, making government itself more efficient. i'm going to get rid of obama care. it is a moral imperative for america to stop spending more money than we take in. it's killing jobs and it's keeping our kids from having the bright prospects they deserve. the experience of balancing budgets is desperately needed in washington and i will take this it there. >> i'm mitt romney and i approve this message. >> good morning, it is 8:00 here on the east coast, as we take a live look at new york city, back with us on set, former governor ed rendell, the host of msnbc's "politics nation" every night at 6:00, reverend al sharpton, senior economic policy adviser to dick durbin, msnbc political analyst jimmy williams with us, and ezra klein and matt lewis of the daily caller. welcome all. one week away from the voting in the state of iowa, saw mitt romney now making a big push.

governor rendell, one of the big questions, whether mitt romney would play in iowa, he is playing in iowa. >> i think he saw a field that was so weak and didn't have any clear front-runner he might actually wind up stealing iowa f he steals iowa and wins big in new hampshire, like the polls indicate he will, the nomination might be his right then and there. it is a gamble but i think a smart gamble. i have never seen anything, willie, a week to go, you can't predict who is going to win or come close. you can't predict the top two. >> it is remarkable, reverend sharpton, you have romney, paul and gingrich all bunched there. >> this is after a procession of flavors of the month going up and down, up and down, up and down. so, i think that i agree with the governor the romney people probably just decided to have a different strategy. i don't think this is what they originally intended to play in

iowa, but i think with the implosion of so many flavors of the month, the last being mr. gingrich, and now ron paul having his day of turbulence -- >> like how you phrased that. difrmt turbulence, right move for them to make, she could actually pull it out which is something no one expected, which gives him a bigger-than-life image going into new hampshire, he pulls that out it will look like a wrap. >> let's listen to what mike huck i was about talking about the other night. he made a prediction, a guy who won iowa four years ago. listen to what he said. >> i probably say mitt romney will end up whipping it today. again, i think ron paul, because of his organization could and that's where mitt is really at a disadvantage. he doesn't have the devotion. if the weather is good, mitt romney is in better shape. if the weather is bad and it's real tough to get out, ron paul will win. >> weather not with standing,

jimmy, who do you like a week out? >> i'm with paul. i think ron paul is going to walk away with one or two but it is tightening. i thought the iowa caucuses were not the bellwether of what happens when it comes to nomination, new hampshire, south carolina, florida definitely s >> matt lewis of the daily caller what do you think now? we have one week out? i went on vacation a week ago, it was all newt gingrich, newt gingrich, i come back a week later, he has fallen it is mitt romney where. are we? >> you make a good point, willy, next week is what matters, things change in the last week, who do change in the next week. i do think, look, iowa on the republican side traditionally hasn't mattered that much. on the democratic side, it really has. you look at what happened with johner can rained barack obama, i will really give them momentum and elevated them. i think it could happen f newt gingrich or rick perry could somehow pull off a win in iowa, which i think is within the realm of possibility, although not likely it becomes a real

race. i think if ron paul or mitt romney win iowa, which appears to be more likely it looks like romney could coast to this no, ma'am market their next week is super important as to whether or not this is going to be a contentionly fought race. >> what do you make of romney's message there in the state of iowa she is in up with the new ad we just played saying he is a conservative, touting his conservative credentials. the other side you can newt gingrich is backing off his promise to not go negative by saying this guy is not a real conservative. he is a moderate, a liberal essentially from the state of massachusetts. can he make the sale of conservative in iowa? >> i think he can make a sale as the guy who has executive competence here. i think this is mitt romney's unexplored weaknesses now. what he has got behind him what his vulnerable ritz are vulnerable not in debate, the form the republican primary played out but tv ads show a lot

of mitt romney talking on one side of the issue and talking on another and very few commercials in the republican primary, a very cheap pry markers the air war starts, you will see some weakness for mitt romney. the other hand it might become too late, everybody who could be the anti-mitt romney has had their moment of being it and judged after the other fairly unsatisfactory by party elites and voters and the media, et cetera. >> after you that, governor rendell, we have gop through all these flavors of the month, as the reverend put it, here we are again at mitt romney, do you think the republican party has finally accepted that this guy can be the nominee? they have tasted every other flavor and now come back to mitt romney? >> i'm not sure. >> if he whips, he will win with 28, 29% of the votes. i don't know what that says. one thing that was on the tape, very important, caucuses are still about organization, to a great degrees, mitt romney, newt

gingrich, the two so-called front-runners don't have much of an organization on the ground. huge advantage for ron paul. big advantage for rick santorum, who is the one candidate that has really worked iowa, worked the retail, been in all of the counties. i wouldn't be surprised if rick santorum did surprisingly well on tuesday night. >> yeah the -- one of the senior strategist, a piece john heilman has written for new york magazine, reverend sharpton, senior strategist came out and said i would be shocked if we weren't the nominee. perhaps not the most wise thing. >> romney's senior strategist? >> romney's senior strategist. >> oh, my. >> he was an unnamed senior strategist. >> a good thing. >> that is not wise to say, but i would agree that santorum should not be undecimated. if he just does well, he doesn't have to whip, does well, he will appear more competitive than we have ever given him a chance. but i -- i think the real problem is, and i know you from

the democratic side when i was involved in 2004, is about who can move your people into the caucuses. >> right. >> and i think that it is really telling what huckabee says about the weather because then you gonna have to have organization to mobilize. and there, i think, ron paul with all of his turbulence, probably has the edge. so, if i was romney, i'd be behind every commercial saying a prayer for good weather. >> organization and passion. that was the point made in that tape, too. there is not a lot of passion from mitt but there is for ron paul and rick santorum. >> a lot of passion against mitt. >> i like the way you are calling it turbulence for ron paul. nice euphemism for what's happening. newt gingrich facing some questions his campaign. gingrich failed, as you play is heard to collect enough signatures to apeernt virginia primary ballot. gingrich, a long-time virginia president and rick perry came up short to participate in the

primary where 49 delegates are at stake. gingrich blast the virginia system as failed, vowing to find its way onto the ballot. gingrich's national campaign director taking to facebook, get this, comparing the campaign setback to the attack on pearl harbor, saying, in part, newt and i agreed the analogy is december 1941. we have experience and unexpect againsted setback but we will regroup and refocus with increased determination, commitment and positive action. the former speaker main tapes his staff is working on alternative methods to compete in the state of virginia. >> we were disappointed, it was our fault and we hope to launch a write-in campaign and getting an amazing number of people who want us to -- believe virginians ought to have the right to choose and shouldn't be restricted to just two people, five different candidates not on the ballot. we will probably launch a write-in campaign. >> the pearl harbor analogy notwithstanding, love they agreed on that talked about that and agreed 1941 is the correct

analogy. how does this happen? how does a leading presidential campaign not get on the ballot in the home state of the candidate? >> well, i think a couple things, willy, at play. first of all, obviously this is devastating for gingrich. 46 delegates at stake this is virginia it is on super tuesday. and it is not whipper take all. phone earn on the ballot, even fern not -- didn't whip but came in second, and i think newt gingrich was actually leading in virginia, that means real delegates. so, this is a serious logistical infrastructure problem, it implies to me that they are not -- obviously not as really run as they ought ton. the other hand, i think it is fair to say the virginia rules are onerous. you have people running, trying to win iowa, trying to win new hampshire and they have to worry not just about 50 state bus in virginia, you have to get 400 signatures from each of the 11 counties. so, it is a bit onerous, but at the end of the day, newt looks

bad by not getting on t. >> what does it say about the gingrich campaign at the end of the day? i mean this is humiliating you. >> says to me he doesn't have a campaign except in name only, because he is the former speaker of the house. i don't know what virginia's requirements are and i'm a resident of the commonwealth of virginia, but i'm also not running for president. let me be clear. >> thank god for that. >> you know. >> given the field? >> i'm probably more conservative than mitt romney and i am a democrat. if i can get on the ballot, right. the neck thing beginning vich going to is blame the germans from bombing pearl harbor. remember from "animal house"? this guy is a fraud. it is not like gingrich lost his speakership when his party lost the house of representatives, his up party threw him out. it is gaffe after gaffe after staff. we declared him dead in the summer when the tiffany stuff came back. but that is because of romney, his lack of conservative credentials but to your point earlier about santorum if

santorum's nipping on his heels like that that sets up for the next primaries a huge, interesting battle between a real conservative, a crazy conservative, but a real conservative and mitt romney. gingrich fades away in my opinion, embarrassing he couldn't get on the ballot in virginia. >> i think it is more than just a setback in virginia. i think if you are a republican supporter, you look at that and you say god, 400 sig match dmurs 11 county, not so hard, willie. gosh, campaigns for governor and attorney general and auditor jeep do that just like that. >> ezra? >> i think speaking to something that's becoming a big deal in the primary, running a campaign is a test, a test in and of itself, a microcosm of running something much, much larger and more important, which is the federal government and three of the major alternatives to mitt romney have come out with massive shows of administrative incomp tense, newt gingrich and rick perry couldn't get on the ballot in virginia and ron paul, you take the most generous possible interpretation of his

news letters wasn't reading what was being written under his own name. folks bounce back and forth trying to find an anti-mitt romney, some point, people get serious, wayne primary, come close to it the question becomes can they actually be president, not are they conservative, not are they an interesting candidate? can they become president a couple, at least, are providing good reason to doubt. they can simply do the organizational tasks that come far beyond any of the visionary leadership, great man of history, stuff that newt gingrich likes to talk b. >> reverend sharpton why i asked the question about the party coming home to romney, watched this play out over the last ten months what ever it has been, seen all these other people come through, maybe now is the moment they say mitt romney is the only guy we can elect to beat barack obama. >> and i think you just said the key point. before you even get whether they can runt federal government, can they go up against an organization like barack obama has built? so before -- if i'm a

republican, god forbid, and i'm looking that the as who would be my candidate, i'm looking that the awesome organization that barack obama demonstrated in '08 and i'm looking at people that can't make the ballot, don't read the newsletter and i'm thinking that i'm going to compete with this. so, forgetting the federal government, how do they compete with president obama? and i don't knows if the's about coming home to romney, it might be coming to romney. i don't know if a lot feel that's home. >> so, matt, that's yet for you can as a conservative, how does that play out? a lot of copper is vat it was don't like the way that mitt romney has conducted himself as governor. but at the end of the day, they want to whip this election. so, what do they do? >> right. so we are at an interesting crossroads right now. look, if the election is about process, if it's about competence and who can fill out spreadsheets and get on ballot, mitt romney's your man. if it is about ideas, if it's about passion, mitt romney is probably not your man.

but at the very minimum, you expect republican candidates to at least pass this threshold of credibility. it makes me wonder where is tim pawlenty right now? because tim pawlenty, he would be the guy you turn to, right? we finally throw our hands up, okay, not going to have new savior rise from these streets but we hate mitt romney who is sort of that middle ground? it would be tim pawlenty if the guy hadn't dropped out of the race. >> tim paul len city gone though. so, what do you do, to paraphrase what rick pitino said about larry bird, tim pawlenty is not walking through door. what do you do he is a guy the candidate of the spreadsheet bus mitt romney may be the only guy who can beat president obama. what is the answer? >> i think it is going to be mitt romney at this point. look, somebody, if newt gingrich or rick perry catches fire in iowa that could give them the momentum but if i'm a betting man today i think it is going to be mitt romney and this is going to be the republican party that says we don't fall in love, we

fall in line, going to be bob dole. it is going to be whoever the next guy in line is. maybe that's enough this year to beat barack obama. we will see. >> still ahead, the nation's dave zile ribbon will be here to talk about the undecided nfl playoff picture around take a look back at some of the biggest sports stories of the year. up next, our interview with larry king on retirement and his new book. but first, bill karins here with a check of the forecast. bill? >> good tuesday morning tour around the country, warm air tops, a little bit of snow this morning, not a lot n st. louis, you woke up to a little bit, now along the illinois/indiana border dealing with a little bit of snow snap our winter radar, the green shows you the rain, we have been showing you since the summer, the white is the snow, we haven't had a lot of it so far this season. we go into the area where it has been snowing a little bit the backside out of storm system, chicago, you kind of missed out, definitely through southern michigan getting snow finally, along with indianapolis, northwards, essentially this

will work through ohio, pittsburgh, cleveland, buffalo and other areas up there in western new york. we also are going to watch rain move into the big cities today, forecast for snow, not a lot, one to three higher elevation, three to six inches, by syracuse standard, not a big deal but one of the first snows of the san. been that type of year. sfwigs all rain four, moving up to the north during the day you new york city, rain by late this afternoon. boston, you will have to wait until tonight. southeast, some showers and thunderstorms rolling through florida. so far, nothing too bad there is a slight risk of some severe storms, gusty winds in the carolinas, finally, if tough travel today or tomorrow on the east coast, wait for tomorrow, forecast looks clear as can be, no other big storms heading our way once we are done with this one, no real shots of cold air either. looks like we will end this year on a very warm know. you are watching morning joe, brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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continue now with a "morning joe" rewind, look at our favorite interviews of the year. after 2er 5 years of hosting his own cable show, larry king hung up his suss spenders last year. in our morning show rewind, we talk to king about his legendary career and his book, "truth be told." >> you really had your big start in miami with just a phenomenal radio show. >> it was the first really network radio, started in 1978. prompted me to move from miami to washington.

the show first came out of miami. i did the local tv in miami and then in washington and then ted turner came along. >> nobody know you started in tv because on the radio sounded like you had been there for decades. >> i started radio and television a year later. i treated television like radio with pictures a lot of radio people would go into television and be affected. oh, a camera. is the camera on me now? am i pronouncing it -- how i do look? i never thought about that. >> you never played tv. >> this show right now could be on radio. >> right. >> right. >> so you -- >> treat this it that way. you treat it had like a conversation, never played tv, enough got in the way of your guest either. >> i never had an agenda. i always felt that i was the conduit and i knew that i would be there tomorrow night. you know, the show had my name on t so if you're guest, you're

a guest. i want you to be great. why wouldn't i want you -- so if murky but terrible, but effective that's fine. i true i do ask the best questions and elicit the best answers. a good interviewer has to know how to listen. if you're listening, you can't have prepared questions what if an answer throws you i never had a prepared question and i like it -- i like it -- i love being live. hated taping. and i loved the immediacy of t. >> he said something so simple that actually something that a lot of people in television could take. which is to listen i mean so many people now in it. v, especially cable tv it is all an agenda, their opinion is in even in the question, the person starts answering the question, already anticipating -- >> this is what i dislike about a lot of 24-hour news channels, a lot of others, is that the guest is a prop for the host. >> right. >> right.

>> so the host is there and sort of like let's say -- give you an example of today's guests, let's say joe scarborough is on, written a book p. >> interview him. >> okay, my days in florida, your book do bash memories of florida. >> memories of florida. >> my guest tonight, joe scarborough. >> yes. >> he has written a new book "my memories of florida." great to have you here, joe. >> great to be here h. >> i spent 20 years in florida. i have so many memories, you write about pensacola? >> yes. >> i went to pensacola. >> about joe. >> i with open to the pep sack cola many, many times, traveling up there go from pensacola, right by louisiana, into mississippi, you write about travels much? >> oh, yeah extravel. >> travel florida. >> the old cosell line, enough about me. what about you? what do you think of me? >> exactly. exactly. >> and unfortunately, that may be passe now. >> i don't think so. >> i hope not.

>> i don't think so. >> you also had a platform that gave you the time to do what you were talking about. >> an hour. >> that's -- you can really let an interview breathe and you can listen. >> radio had three hours. >> good lord, that's incredible. >> we got three hours here. >> yeah, but you have many guest, but this -- reason this is a fun show is 'cause it's fun but serious and you mingle your topics well and you group well. >> we are also drunk when we come on at 6 in the morning. >> under the influence of something. >> explain this to me. >> drink? >> california. the you know what time you're on in california? 5 a.m. >> ridiculous. >> i get up at 6. >> tell me about -- of all the guests, you have got to go back through, i want to ask you through, who was the biggest thrill for you. >> that is hard to answer. >> after you have so many people come through at some point, you are like, i've seen it all before hospital. is the -- i asked jerry weintraub once, who is the biggest star who is the guy that made you stop and go wow and i

expected sinatra or dean martin. he goes, ronald reagan. i said i'm walking to a room, he suck up -- i would have never expected that from jerry weintraub. who was that person for you who was the wow? >> mandela. >> mandela? >> one, in his presence, not just interviewing him but i went to south africa on a speaking tour for a group and mandela called and invited me to his home. so i had lunch with mandela and dinner with declerk. i'm a little jewish boy from brooklyn, what the hell am i doing here? and to be in the -- 'cause i believe mandela was probably the greatest political social figure of the 20th century and had he taken a different approach coming up, you had civil war in south africa, but he came out of

jail, had two of his guards attend his inauguration as president. >> wow. >> and declerk told me, he called mandela the day before he got out of jail and invited him to come to johannesburg and address the legislature. and he politely declined and said woe walk out of the jail in cape town and just walk among the people and declerk, he said he went up ten fold in declerk's mind that night. >> wow. it would be mandela. >> let ask you the flip side of that question, a subject -- i don't like to bring up subjects that raise neighbor the -- >> go ahead, john. >> look -- >> that's what you do for a living. >> you have interviewed everybody. everybody. except for bruce springsteen. how did that happen? how did you not get the boss? >> that hurts. stop t. >> my producers fault. they failed me. a guy from new jersey, i never got bruce springsteen. >> how can he resist you?

>> i don't know. i have never met him. would be one of my favorite people. i just -- you know, sometimes you fall between the contracts, you get people that other people don't get. and sometimes you don't get someone. you can't hit it perfect, john. >> along the lines of misses, 'cause you're responsible for so many years of great television, has there ever been an interview, you and your producer, wendy walker? >> yeah, terrific. >> like that did not work, that was incredibly disappointing? like what? tell me. tell me. >> okay. >> i like hearing these stories. >> it was not janet reno. that is almost embarrassing. >> let's do it. it's good four. >> rock hudson had a wife many years prior to becoming a famous actor. the wife's name was phyllis gates, recently passed away, she never accidenter views, a couple

acting role bus basically a low-key person but she finally agreed after hudson died to do one interview and it would be us a wend made a mistake. we overpromoted. never overhe promoted. went crazy, tonight, phyllis gates, rock hudson's wife what does she have to tell us? tune in. you don't want to miss. this rock hudson died of aids but add wife. sits down, very nice lady. how did you meet sniffs a secretary to rock's agent and he naturally visited his agent a lot and we went to a couple movies and we liked each other and got married. was it a happy marriage? yes, but rock had a lot of work to do and we didn't have any children, after a year or so we parted. did you keep in touch with him? >> no. >> did you have any idea that he was gay? >> no. >> no.

>> no further answers. did you call him when he had aids? >> no. >> i look at the clock. >> you got to pull off -- >> 58 minutes to fill. >> oh, my gosh. >> the things i -- like what was his favorite films? >> my gosh. >> that is awful. >> never overpromote. >> the great larry king. what's next for larry? possibly major league baseball. last month, he announced he is joining an effort to buy the los angeles dodgers. dodgers, of course, the team he grew up rooting for back home in brooklyn. up next, the nation magazine's sports editor dave zile rip takes us through his top three sports moments of 2011. we are back in a moment. losing weight clicked for me when i found a plan that was as active and on the go as i was. weight watchers online

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welcome back to morning live, joining us from washington, the sports editor at the nation magazine, dave zirin. >> happen 3i holidays, willie. goefrnlts your top stories of 2011 in a minute. got to ask you last night, drew brees, monday night football, passes dan marino for the most single-season yards, 27-year-old record.

what does it mean? >> it means a great deal. i know a lot is being said about how it's easier to set passing records in today's nfl because of rules that favor the offense but this record has stood for 27 years. and drew brees right now looks like the best quarterback in the nfl, lead he can the best team in the nfl and getting hot just in time for the playoffs. >> you said two things there, best quarterback, meaning better than aaron rodgers, for the best team, birth than the packers, you believe both of those things? >> i do believe both of those things. any time you look at the nfl, the recent years, history, you want to look at the teams hot come playoff time, look at the packers year ago, number six seed, went to the super bowl, the new orleans saints are the hottest team in the nfc right now, the second hottest team suspect the packers, a team in their own division, the detroit lions. if office better person, i'm not a betting person, 3-1 says i'm not a betting person, i will tell you, i'll tell you right now i would be putting my fictional money on the detroit

lions or the new orleans saints to come out of the nfc. >> wow, the detroit lions. imagine that the saints haven't lost, governor ed rendell, since october 30th. >> dave, i'm not sure the saints are the same team outdoors and going to have to play green bay at lambeau field, not sure the odds favor them. a very good point. no one wants to go to lambeau come playoff time, especially when the cold hits but at the same time new orleans has shown success outside the dome this year, they have a better defense than green bay, most interestingly, they've better running game than green bay which will help in the cold weather. >> let's get your top sports stories of 2011. number one no surprise, the penn state scandal, jerry sandusky, that cost joe paterno his job up there. can we put that into some kind of perspective yet? >> it is the greatest fall from grace in the history of sports in the u.s. i remember saying those same words about tiger woods a couple

of years ago, the greatest fall from grace are ever. that now seems quaint compared to what's happened at penn state. and the thing about penn state that nation particularly hard is the school trumpeted itself as one of of only two schools in division i history to never be investigated by the ncaa, never get sanctions by the ncaa. to now have it be really the cher roint sundae of a year of awful scandals at places like the university of miami, ohio state, and it just speaks to a college football world that's sitting on a foundation of the worst kind of corruption and hypocrisy now. a statistic i keep coming took in my mind, the fact that in 1977, woody hayes, the great head coach of ohio state, at his peak, made 42 grand a year. 42 grand. they just signed urban meyer for $4.5 million a year to coach at ohio state. >> wow. we talked an awful lot on this show about changing the institution of government, of congress and getting the money out and how difficult it is to do that because of the forces at

play. does this moment, the penn state moment if you want to call it that, does this change college football? a lot of cries from the outside. taylor branch wrote the big piece this year became a book. >> amazing. >> it seems like the moment is here or enough pressure to make some institutional change to clem athletics? >> the problem is the people still in charge of making that change are the ncaa. >> just like -- >> is like asking the sopranos clean up the local drug dealer on the corner. you are rep plic kagt the same problems and actually execution the very institution that is the heart of the problem, like the president of the ncaa, mark emirate, very good guy this isn't a personal attack, but he made $2 million last year. he has 14 vice presidents, each of whom make at least $400,000. and it is all built on this foundation of keeping business as usual flowing in college sports. and any time you have something that rests on such, i think, an institutionalized corruption, change becomes very, very

difficult. >> i think one of the things that penn state does though is bring it outside of the sports and the -- those that are in charge, where change can happen, which is what we were saying earlier in the show about politics. if you get movement from the outside, i think when you start seeing penn state in and the outrage, these are people not necessarily college football fans, or taylor branch's article, which was not done in a sports magazine, it starts bringing everybody in, that's where change can happen. >> i agree. >> i think that's what happens. i think dave's analogies and metas for, might consider the ministry at some point in his life. he is pretty good. >> he is pretty good? >> the other metaphor i would use is that of the company town because one of the thing has saw in happy valley was how much of the up to socially, economically, culturally revolved around football, which meant a lot of -- levels of coverup that went far beyond the institution itself.

>> yeah. and your number two story, the lockout. still a lot of things happen off the field, the nfl first, their problem resolved, took the nba a little bit longer. >> absolutely. the thing about the nfl lockout in particular was how politicized it got. wither often told sports and politics don't mix. i remember interviewing demorris smith, the head of the nfl players association you early on in the lockout, said to mr. smith, how can you possibly think you can defeat the nfl, they are so big, they are so powerful. he looked at me and he said egypt. if he had said to me help prek cans, i wouldn't have been more surprised. i said what do you mean egypt? he said, well, look, i'm not comparing us to the massive social changes happening in egypt but you got to think that if people can do it over there, then we can do it over here and it was a remarkable thing and the other thing, and i have my phone out right here because i have a quote i want to read you, this is from troy pal mall lurk the all-pro safety for the steelers, i'm going to read you this quote, he said it several

months before the occupy movement started in the united states. he said, i think what the players are fighting for is something bigger. a lot of people think it's millionaires versus billionaires. the facts is the's people fighting against big business. the big business argument is i got the money and i got the power, therefore, extell you what to do that's life everywhere. but this is a time went football players are standing up and saying, no, no, no, the people have the power. >> yeah, i mean, interesting, wasn't the only one, as you point out in your new yorker piece, 2011, when sports met the world, odd guy like charles woodson, veteran, playing with the green bay packers who stood with workers in the state of wisconsin. he came out and said, these are hard-working people under unprecedented attack to take away their basic rights to have a voice and collectively bargain at work. that's veteran nfl player, worth an awful lot of money, standing with workers, dave. >> there was a lot of solidarity

on display. and in the nfl in particular, more than the nba in the lockout, interaction between the formal labor movement and the players, i really do think just from talking to the people in the nfl, it was the issues of injuries and concussions that really radicalized players and all the news that was coming out there about the fact that they were only going to play three and a half years, we risk these horrible health effects and here is the nfl not only fining us 75 grand for hit but also staying in negotiations they want seasons that are two games longer and it rubbed a lot of players the wrong way and they spoke out about it. >> you get to this time of year and you are see all the injuries on these teams, the concussion stories we are talking become the idea of flying in more regular san games gets pretty absurd. >> tj yates versus dan orlove ski, the two quarterbacks who went against each other on the marquee thursday night game last week. both of these guys if they walked in this room right now wearing shirts that said hi, my name is dan orlovsky, i would be like, security, get guy out of

here. >> together, the guys killed the idea of an 18-game schedule. >> yes. >> dave, governor rendell has one for your top list of the top moments of 2011. >> as a life long baseball fan, i thought it was an incredible year for baseball, within seven or eight minutes, boston lost and tampa bay won, i thought it was -- showed the beauty of baseball, which doesn't have a time clock and goes six, seven months and comes down to that last few minutes. >> i think you are right. sports illustrate did a whole article in their year-end issue about those seven or eight minutes, which as you read it you start to get that chill and the hairs stand up on the back of your neck as if you're doing it again. i hope in the 21st century, we are still a country that has the patience for baseball and the patience for what's on time, we are all watching 2 minute 32 second youtube clips of our favorite moments. take flesh you are? a sport that doesn't require a clock. at its most exquisite, i would

argue nothing beats baseball. >> the st. louis cardinals also showed us that. incredible game six and go on to went world series. dave zirin, always great to talk to you. thanks so much. the piece is in the new yorker, 2011, when sports met the world. dave, happy new year. >> merry qwannaka, everybody. >> that everying. >> i know what that is. up next, soaring salaries for federal workers. break down the big paydays in business before the bell. we will be right back. oh it's clearance time!

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welcome back to morning joe, get a quick check on business before the bell, brian sullivan,

live at cnbc headquarters. brian, good morning. >> good morning. >> what are you looking at today, man? >> one of those weeks probably not expecting a whole lot in the way of the stock market, got some italian bond options, i'm sure that's your lead story as well. >> the reverend just explaining that to me. >> hey, good morning, italian bond auction. >> boom. >> we are watching i think is federal worker pay. story in the "usa today," the gapes in the fed worker pay were the slow nest a decade but headline aside, the actual data is that fed worker pay continues to grow at a faster pace than private sector. the annual fed wage is $76,000, another 28,000 kicked in in benefits and pension benefits, medical, dental, whatever. so if you want to be a worker, let's say an auto mechanic, you might want to work for the federal government because the auto mechanic's pay in fed government has gown $10,000 in the last five years. so, be a at that time tent

attorney, auto mechanic or cook in a prison for the federal government and you're probably doing pretty well. >> those respect terribly appealing jobs, the average, 76,000 bucks for federal employees. another store on the front page of the "usa today," to the right of the one you are outlining for us, holiday sales fail to dazzle. was it a disappointing holiday sales weekend? >> you know, we know that it was certainly for sears. trying to find out the other stores, wait to see what the individual stores put out as far as same-store sales go, watch the stock market today, a pretty good leading indicator, investors some way of knowing maybe we do ahead of the gain, sears says it will close between 100 and 120 sears or k smart sales because of bad holiday sales, shutdown marginally performing stores, means job loss, haven't laid out how many stores or jobs would be cost but not good news for sears or employees today and attributing that directly to what they call

pretty much terrible holiday sales at sears and kmart. so, not the most heart-warming story on this tuesday. sorry about that. >> have the italian bond auction, you and i. >> like a billy joel song, the italian bond auction in new york, we fell in love and broke up or something. >> always have milan, brian. this is getting weird, i'm going to cut it off. brian sullivan live at cnbc. thanks so much. we will be right back. what is it about taking a first step that we find so compelling? is it because taking a step represents hope? or triumph? at genworth, we believe in taking small steps every day to keep your promises, protect what matters, and prepare for a secure financial future.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joe and mika are off this week, enjoying well-zeefrd rest. we know where joe s this tweet went out, walking on the beach at sunrise in my home state. i think "morning joe" needs to move south. hear hear. i would add to that, southeast to a different time zone perhaps. don't have to wake up in the middle of the night. a get an amen on that one. tomorrow's show, "hardball's" chris matthews, live with us on set. plus, our interview with george clooney and the great betty white. next, what if anything did we learn today? ♪ i believe in dreams again

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good morning. welcome wil time to tell you what we learned today, reverend sharpton what did you learn, sir? >> devastated that harrison was part of the 1%. >> going to learn more about that from gail collins. all you ever wanted to know and more about william henry harrison. governor, what did you learn? >> i'm devastated to know that mike barnicle owns a tie. >> he only wear it is for owe practice we learned today. >> how about the president? >> the president he would wear it as well. i learn aid cording to newt gingrich and his camp that not appearing on the virginia ballot is tantamount to pearl harbor. we will just let that one soak in for a moment. also learned it's the birthday, a very special birthday,