the control room has answers. what have you got? >> michael in connecticut. "the recent batch of teeth-whitening gel i purchased is much stronger than the last batch." >> teeth whitening gel. sam stein tells me that stuff is very çstrong. teeth. what else? >> i'm up freezing, furnace broke last night, hoping that watching cutie pie willie will warm me up. >> step real close to the tv and put your hands out. this is from liberal commie. i was awake because i was hankering for a hunk of cheese. "morning joe" starts right now. . we've always felt like, you know, we could trust the people of iowa that when they got down to the time when they were going to seriously look at the candidates and measure up the people they've had the opportunity to see, we would do well. like any small business person,

wolf. if the money's not coming in, you've got to work harder. we're continuing to work hard, doing radio shows at 6:00 in the morning here and going until 9:00, 10:00 at night. town meeting after town meeting. 57 town hall meetings i've done in the state of iowa. and hard work pays off. >> rick santorum bouncing in a new poll. good morning, welcome to "morning joe," it's thursday, december 29th, five days now until those iowa caucuses. with us onset, msnbc political analyst mr. michael steele. michael, good to see you. political writer for the "huffington post," sam stein, dr. jeffrey sachs, and in washington, chief foreign affairs correspondent, host of "andrea mitchell reports" every day at 1:00 on msnbc, andrea mitchell. good morning. >> happy holidays to everybody. >> happyç holidays to everybod. let's get to these polls. i want to break it down for you. particularly the cnn "time"

research poll, five days to go to the iowa caucuses. a new poll shaking up the race a little bit. mitt romney on top, 25% support among likely republican voters, ron paul in a close second within the margin of error. the story here, though, rick santorum up 11 points since the last poll a few weeks ago at 16% and newt gingrich down 19 points at 14%. andrea, i'll start with you, what do you read into that poll? >> well, the fact is that gingrich is really in a dive, that's clear. he hasn't figured out what to do to turn this around. i don't think going to a chocolate factory and mimicking what romney did on lucille ball is going to do it. i think he's got to talk about what propelled him to the top right away, which was that he came back from sort of the living dead politically by showing he could not only debate but talk about substance, what people wanted to hear. and override concerns that

people did have about his lack of management skills, the fact he couldn't run a good organization. that was revived by his failure to get on the virginia ballot. the other thing, santorum has been working very hard and he could become an alternative for evangelicals who rr concerned about bachmann that she hasn't shown the seriousness that they had first thought she had back in ames at the straw poll last august. and, of course, that ron paul is the continuing threat to all the rest of the conservative and libertarian andç evangelicals. and as long as ron paul is doing that well, it's pretty good for mitt romney, because it will produce a mixed result and romney will be able to be the -- even though he doesn't have 50%, he doesn't need 50%. if the candidates are that badly divided. >> this poll surveyed only registered republicans. independents can't caucus in iowa, but they can change their registration at the door when they arrive.

mr. chairman, what is the santorum leap of 11 points in a couple of weeks tell you? >> i would say this is one more target for the establishment inside the gop to go after over the next few days to protect whatever support they want to rally around romney. i think it's also with respect to newt, you know, that's what $10 million will do to you when it's put on air every day and you're just slammed from your right and from your center right for two weeks. and i think going into the next few days, you're going to see santorum if he's smart and cool cucumber and he has been, i think he's going to sort of get around the front-runner or the moving into the next phase of being the front-runner part of this and stay focused on his ground game that they've put in place for the last year and do continue to knock on those doors and sit in the homes of folks.

turnout is going to be important. it's going to be balmy weather, good weather i think for folks to turn out. and the independent voters have not been captured in the polls. there's still a good third of the folksç out there undecided. >> wouldn't you if you were santorum right now going very hard after mitt romney? even though you haven't been bestowed that title, just start attacking him, say, listen, it's going to be me or him, nobody expects ron paul to win, this is what the race has come down to. >> making a very good point. no one has done that. mitt is one of the luckiest guys out there because this whole thing, everyone else has been the target, but mitt has fortunately skewed that opportunity to be the target standing on the stage. no one ever took the shot, you know, the political kill shot to really bring him down on health care, to bring him down on abortion, to bring him down on any number of issues in which

he's got some real vulnerabilities. >> one more thing about gingrich, it's inherently funny to see him at a chocolate factory. but the other thing, hasn't he -- why doesn't he -- he's been challenging mitt romney to these debates and he's not going to be met with that challenge, but why doesn't he use that in some respect to say, listen, if you can't debate me, how can we expect you to beat barack obama? and the contrast is right there to make and he hasn't made it. >> and dr. sachs, mitt romney has to like what he's watching here. best chance to beat obama. this is from republican voters in iowa by the way believe it's mitt romney by a margin of 24 points or something like that. >> yeah, no doubt. after all of this, everyone had their week in the sun. >> yeah. >> romney's there. do you think he could wrap this up very, very quickly? >> i think they're going to try to. the schedule will allow them to do that at least in terms of getting some of that early momentum coming out of iowa.

i still say, though, there's stillç a lot of volatility on e ground. new hampshire and south carolina are going -- >> so interesting to watch the way mitt romney has handled iowa. he didn't talk much about it for a long time. didn't want to raise expectations or questions about whether he would play it all. he's played, he'll be there all day and probably return next week to show he wants to be on the doorstep as this happens on tuesday. how has he handled the state, especially when you compare it to the way he did in 2008? >> well, i think he's done a brilliant job of lowering expectations and made a serious effort there. he's got the money to keep it up, he's got the super pac doing all the, you know, dirty work for him, and messing up -- muddying up newt gingrich among the others going after newt. and i think that he has played the expectation game so smartly that unless there's a big shift and this could happen because there are so many undecided

voters, and we've seen already how these changes can take place. unless there's a big shift, he is well positioned to come out of there either winning it or number two. and either way, it's a win. >> newt gingrich yesterday was down playing his recent drop in the polls insisting you don't have to win or come in second or maybe even third in these early races to stay in the game. here's what he said. >> still have to get top three. >> top three or four depends on whether they're all bunched. what if you have four people tied? what if you have ron paul win? at that point i think you have -- the people shake their head and go to the next. >> everyone whoç has won -- if you looked at where we first put our team -- our biggest team is in south carolina. i'd like to come in second in new hampshire, i think it's very hard to beat romney in new hampshire. although it'll be fun, a much more exciting week. >> dr. sachs, newt gingrich saying he doesn't have to be on

the medal stand to move forward in new hampshire. john mccain came in fourth in 2008, slightly behind fred thompson. but this gingrich campaign is not mccain's campaign -- >> i think we're seeing the last days of newt on this one. if he's not in the top two, certainly doesn't look like he's going to be, i think he's got nowhere else to go. >> we need to talk about ron paul too. there was a little bit of a coup last night if you want to call it that. kent sorenson and one of the co-chairs for bachmann's campaign deflected to paul. at a rally for paul after hours after attending an event for michele bachmann. >> i've been serving for the past year, and i believe we're in a turning point in this campaign. i believe that we have an

opportunity to elect a conservative, someone who holds our values dear. and when the republican establishment is going to be coming against him over the next few days, i thought it was my duty to come to his aid. i just want to tell you guys that i'm going to do everything i can the next few days to help in iowa and beyond. and we're going to take ron paul all the way to the white house 2012. >> sorenson says he switched to ron paul because paul's past support for him during a state senate race last year. but the bachmann campaign says there's another reason. in an official statement michele bachmann wrote, kent sorenson personally told me he was offered a large sum of money. kent says everyone sells out in iowa why shouldn't i? and then he told me he was going to stay with our campaign. the ron paul campaign has to answer for his actions. sorenson says he was not lured away by cash. does this matter? why am i looking at kent sorenson on my tv this morning? >> something tells me we're

going to forget the name kent sorenson within a matter of days. >> days? >> within hours. >> what a classy guy. who wouldn't want him in their corner? obviously this is a huge joke. and he's transparent about it, too. michelle wasn't going to win. >> i want to go with the guy who is at least going to be number two. >> plus they threw in some cash. >> i'm going to try -- bachmann is famous for throwing out statements that actually make no sense whatsoever upon close skr scrutiny. >> forget kent sorenson and let's talk about where ron paul is. he's right there at the top with romney. a lot of these independents who can switch at the door could go to ron paul. where does he fit in here? >> he's got a great platform right now for iowa. he is just devoted followers. a lot of them are college kids. these kids are instate kids, they're going to be in iowa. he has a built-in base that no

other candidate can match. but the thing is, the expectation is he has nowhere else to go from here. i'm not sure that's actually true. i think he could have a really interesting effect on theç totality of the race. but if you give his record some close scrutiny, i mean, he would be a really troubling nominee for the republican party. and i think gingrich was probably right when he said, you know, it wouldn't be a good race for him to run against obama. i don't want to get into all of the record, but there are some interesting things out there, let's say that. >> i'll just kind of start from the newsletter and go from there. i think beyond, beyond the party is a tough sell for a lot of folks. and i don't know too many republicans who want to be on shows like this discussing that issue and trying to defend it or explain it away, number one, number two, i think to your point, sam, about the organization, that's critically important. when you look at states like south carolina and new hampshire in particular where, you know, you've got that third factor where independents and others

can kind of get into the game with the open primary process. so ron paul coming out of an iowa one or two has an opportunity to at least cause a little consternation or angina for folks when you get to south carolina or new hampshire. >> if romney finishes second to ron paul, nobody's going to be like oh, no, they're going to expect ron paul to fall off. >> but at some point i contend if everybody is going with the conventional wisdom that romney is our eventual nominee, you've got to show me more than 25%, bro. i'm sorry, you've got to show that the base is going to be behind that. you've got to start picking up those numbers and creating a separation between himself and the rest of the field. you cannot sit there and play this rose garden strategy of everybody else divide the spoils and i'll get 30% in the vote and move on toç the next race. >> if he comes in first or second in iowa and goes on to a huge win in the state of new hampshire, doesn't he pick up that momentum?

>> he picks up the momentum and then he's got to head south and i'm not sure how he plays in south carolina or florida. and ron paul could be a factor in those places, as well. ron paul could be a factor if he ends up as we all sort of expect, not being the nominee. he could be a factor because he's not ruled out a third party run. and if he does run as an independent, he would be a real problem for whoever is the republican nominee. >> and paul's got a new ad up in the state of new hampshire where he goes off gingrich and mitt romney. let's check it out. >> the washington machine is strangling our economy. politicians who supported bailouts and mandates, serial hypocrites and flip-floppers can't clean up the mess. one man stands alone, a real plan to cut $1 trillion year one. balance the budget in three, consistent, incorruptible, guided by faith and principle, ron paul, the one we've been looking for. >> i'm ron paul, and i approve

this message. >> dr. sachs, there's a lot in ron paul's record to scare you. but his central message of shrinking government and making it work again resinates with people. >> i don't know he wants it to work again, he wants to close it down. and if anyone actually took it seriously because i don't think he's going anywhere, people would be horrified. he's the one that wants to close down not three departments but five departments, including department of education, go after every environmental regulation, all theç rest. he's not going anywhere, but what i think is amazing is how far to the right every single republican candidate is right now. i don't know how they can begin to make up any ground toward the middle after they've gone, all of them, so far to the right saying they're basically going to close down large parts of government. and the american people don't want that. so this whole dynamic of this race has not pushed toward the

center where the election is going to be won or lost in the end. it's pushed quite far to the far right and i don't know how even romney's going to make up ground. his economic plans are extreme, as well. >> well, when you look, chairman steele, at people who can win independents and have not gone too far right, mitt romney sticks out clearly above everybody. but think about the philadelphia suburbs and the rest of it, mitt romney looks like the guy. >> i've said it on this show and joe and mika, as well, someone like a huntsman. if you ever had that breakout moment would absolutely be the candidate that would coalesce a number of interests out there around a central idea of reforming government and moving forward without dismantling government and doing things the american people want. as the professor said to get us in a better economic position than the one we're in. but he hasn't had that breakout moment, so still waiting.

>> clock's ticking. >> clock's ticking. >> 9% right now in new hampshire where he's put all his eggs. he's got work to do. still ahead on "morning joe," rick santorum will join us to talk about his surge in that poll. also wisconsin governor scottç walker. nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd in iowa, and the host of "politics nation," the reverend al sharpton. the ron paul campaign is giving the army of college-age aides a razor. well, good morning, everyone, we're going down in the record books as one of the warmest decembers on record for many areas of the eastern half of the country and new england. probably the first morning it actually feels like the middle of winter. and temperatures will warm up later today. it's really just a morning event, the windchill is the problem. in the single digits in connecticut, massachusetts, upstate new york's in the

negative numbers this morning. it's a very cold start to the day. this afternoon, though, we get up to about freezing in new england, to 40 in the big city, there's some light snow out there in wisconsin, drifting into areas of michigan, maybe a dusting to an inch in like green bay this morning and that'll be about it. not a lot of weather trouble out there today. actually beautiful 50s near 60 degrees from kansas city to dallas. the southeast looks really nice too. and i hope everyone has enjoyed our break from winter. all signs point to the really first cold arctic air settling over the u.s. as we enter monday through about thursday of next week. enjoy this, you knew it couldn't last forever. you're watching "morning joe." look at that. building's going up fast. we're brewed by starbucks.

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's take a look at some of the morning papers. the richmond times dispatch, increasing party support. virginia republicans are requiring voters to sign a loyalty oath in order to take part in the march 6th primary. means support for the republican presidential nominee no matter who it is. those who refuse to sign will be turnedç away from primary voti. >> "wall street journal," u.s. prosecutors preparing the first criminal charges against bp for the 2010 explosion, resulted in the worst offshore oil spill in the history of this country. investigators zeroing in on top engineers who may have falsified information about risks associated with the deepwater horizon well. "usa today," good news for the airline industry, 2011's shaping up as the safest year ever for fliers. the consulting firm says there

was only one fatality for every 7.1 million passengers. the numbers reflect a recent safety trend. u.s. airlines, which have not experienced a passenger death in a crash in 4 of the last 5 years. volunteers for ron paul's presidential campaign in iowa are getting strict marching orders. shave, cover tattoos, and do not tweet. the campaign is telling its army of college-aged supporters to dress, sound, and behave in a way that will not jeopardize his chances of the caucus. one said the standard is, what would ron paul do. you get that on a rubber bracelet. with us now, the chief white house correspondent mike allen with a look at the playbook. good morning. >> good morning. >> we're all focused on which republican candidates are going to survive the iowa caucus. but you're doing reporting on what president obama and his team have been up to in iowa. what's going on?

>> yeah, you know, they told us earlier that they had more organizing offices in iowa than anyç republican candidate does. if that turns out to be true, in fact, the obama campaign is using the iowa caucuses coming up five days from now, tuesday, as a dry run for november. so they've been calling people in iowa, it's not just republicans who are getting bugged at dinner time now. getting them to turn out for events, getting them to organize. the night of the iowa caucuses, the obama campaign is going to have events throughout iowa. president obama is going to skype into them. is going to come in by video web cast to talk to them, to pump them up, and vice president biden is going to do something similar for the new hampshire primary right after that. so they're using this republican time -- a time when republicans are focused on themselves to organize and flex their muscles to get ready for when it's a real deal. >> and andrea mitchell in washington. this is a reminder for whoever comes out of this republican

field and becomes the nominee, they'll be facing a monster machine in the obama campaign. >> yeah. the obama campaign has the money, they have the organization. they've got everything but the economy going for them right now. so they've got a great head start and, of course, they're very much enjoying the ron paul surge in the -- what's been happening in the rest of the republican field. one thing that the ron paul campaign advisories to their college student followers reminds me of is wasn't it get clean with gene? i think that was the motto. >> don't look like a hiphippie, think that was the message there. >> exactly. >> the poll we've been talking about this morning, the cnn time poll that shows santorum surging, newt gingrich dropping,

huntsman is now the only one who has not gotten his bump. getting help from home schoolers in iowa to young men. the harris brothers who helped propel the huckabee ban in 2008 are now with santorum are helping him get buzz among evangelical christians. it's not a danger to romney. and, in fact, this is part of why the romney campaign has so much new confidence about iowa if they can keep having a different person pop every time, it's working. the romney campaign now says that the night of the iowa caucuses as results come in, romney is going to be in des moines, which is a sign of confidence they haven't had in the past until now, they've been trying to avert their gaze from iowa to do their stealth campaign, to do their organizing under the radar, now they're going very much over the radar and saying we feel good about iowa. >> the fact he's there shows he's playing some kind of victory rally, at least. mike allen, thanks so much, mike, we'll talk to you.

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welcome back to "morning joe." the united states navy pushing back against threats by iran to close a critical waterway in the persian gulf that carries 15 million barrels of oil every day. iranian officials are furious over a planned oil embargo by the west. in retaliation, they say they will cut off access to the strait where 1/3 of the energy supply is transported. the state department is down playing the rhetoric with some analysts suggesting iran would only cripple its own economy with that move. still, the pentagon not taking the threats lightly. saying any interference with shipping lanes will "not be tolerated." and the navyç command put out sharply worded statement that reads in part, anyone who threatens to disrupt freedom of navigation in an international strait is clearly outside the community of nations. the united states navy is always ready to counter malevolent actions to ensure freedom of navigation. dr. sachs, how does this end?

>> well, it's a war of nerves, and there are a lot of things going on, obviously. there's the iranian nuclear threat and then the threat of sanctions. this is the response by iran that you put sanctions on us, we'll disrupt oil. what we know from an economic point of view is if there were actually any disruption of that shipping lane, it would be a calamity for the world economy, and this is a hot spot that isn't getting any cooler any time soon. it's dangerous. mostly this is rhetoric right now, but oil prices were pushed higher by all of this saber rattling, and i think it's going to continue. there's no easy resolution of this. iraq itself looks like it's becoming more and more unstable. the moment we leave, all of a sudden, you know, everything falling apart in iraq not surprisingly. and i think we're in for a lot of instability in this region. >> andrea? >> in fact, there's a big

political component to this, as well. these are threats iran has made before. this time iransv?:?7?;7ó may be more serious, that's why you had the tough statement from the pentagon. this time the president is about to sign the defense spending bill, the authorization bill. and an amendment that was passed 100 to zero in the u.s. senate, which places the toughest sanctions ever on iran's financial system, the centralç bank and its oil trade. and this was something that the state department at the white house argued strongly, testified two weeks ago strongly against doing because they wanted to target the sanctions, treasury had sort of phased in approach to try to not get this kind of response and also not hurt japan which relies heavily on iran for oil and other close allies. this was not what the administration wanted, but the president has no choice but to sign the spending bill. he can waive those sanctions if he thinks it's in the economic interest of the nation. can you imagine barack obama in

an election year waiving sanctions against iran? imagine the republican outcry. so he's really boxed in. >> yeah, michael, the president's in a tough spot. >> he is in a tough spot. and i have a question for andrea, do you think given everything you've seen in this region and particularly with the escalation now in iraq, is iran hankering for a fight? are they looking to mix it up a little bit? to see where exactly the new lines are being drawn by the west whether it's respect to israel or oil, whatever it happens to be? >> they very well could be. that's why there is some real concern this is not just bluster. they've made these threats before. this time it could be serious. they do feel threatened economically. these sanctions plus europe now cutting them off on oil imports. you also have new governments in greece, spain, and italy. none of which are as friendly to iran as their predecessors. so there is a real concern in iran. and we don't know who is calling the shots in that regime. but this is coming from the top

and that's why it's concerning. >> we'll be watching youç toda at 1:00 on "andrea mitchell reports." >> iowa, iowa, iowa. >> it's all iowa. the "morning joe" rewind, our best interviews from 2011. a look back at our sit-down with former vice president dick cheney. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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earlier this year, former vice president dick cheney joined us here on the set at "morning joe" to talk about his memoir "in my time" in this mojo rewind, cheney reflected on the bush presidency and revealed how he dealt with his harshest critics.

>> so there are earlier this week when we talked about you coming on the show, there was discussion around the table and i think it was jon heilemann who said, you know, what's not answered in this book is what changed dick cheney from the man who was seen by everybody as the moderate voice of republicanism in washington, d.c. to a man who seemed to morph over night into darth vader. that was your nickname. brent scrocoff said i don't know dick cheney anymore. explain this transformation, first of all, and how tough has it been for you and your family to deal with that transformation? >> well, it wasn't tough to deal with the transformation. after being vice president for a few years subject of all the jokes on leno and letterman, fodder for the late night comedians, you need to have a pretty thick skin just to get up every morning and function.

i never let it bother me. and we used to joke about it. i've got a great picture that the staff took of me one day and they didn't know -- i didn't know they were there. but they snuck in with a camera because i had a darth vader mask on.ç darth vader sitting behind the desk in the president's office. part of it had to do with the fact -- the nature of the job. i was doing something that hadn't been done very often as vice president. i wasn't really in charge of anything. it's not like running the defense department with 4 million people or running the white house. but there were things that needed to be done that i chose to do them. the president wanted me to do them. and it generated controversy. >> he depended on you? >> he did. and it worked in such a way that it sort of fed the notion cheney's changed. i don't think i did, i think what happened was 9/11 was a dramatic event, historic event

that we went from a situation where the terrorist act was a law enforcement problem to where terrorist act, in fact, had been an act of war of the united states, killed 3,000 people one morning. >> you came to washington at one point when it wasn't exactly a bipartis saisan nirvana, waterg. compare the washington in which you became the youngest chief of staff ever through today. do you think it's gotten worse? do you think it's about the same in terms of the feeling of partisanship as people try to govern the country? >> well, there's this sort of conventional wisdom that says there was a period of time back where everything was warm and fuzzy, republicans loved democrats, everybody got along. that's not what i remember. what i remember, i arrived here in the summer of 1968, martin luther king had just been assassinated, bobby kennedy had just been assassinated, we'd had the troopers in the 82ndç

airborne on capitol hill with machine guns to make sure that the riots in downtown washington didn't spread to the government buildings. it was a very, very difficult and painful time in our history, and not a time when you could look back on it from now and say, gee, those were the good old days, the golden days. they weren't. it's often been true in our history. we've had the peaks and valleys. and to say it's worse now than it's ever been, i'm reluctant to make that judgment. >> who do you think the best president you ever served was? >> i'm not going to answer that. >> mr. president, do you have an answer for that question? >> i do. it's highly classified. >> all right. >> here we are. >> just a friendly confines of "morning joe." >> "morning joe." nobody's watching, so if i said it -- >> that is just horrible. that was a hateful thing to say. you yourself you say you

watch -- i don't know why you are, but you're a regular viewer of "morning joe." >> i am. i enjoy the show very much and watch it several days a week. on who was the best president, i used to think when i was a political scientist, which sh what i started out in life to be, you know, you look for these trends or themes that run across administrations. and, in fact, what i'm struck by after 40 years in this business are the differences. and that each president is so different in terms of the experience he brings to office and in terms of the challenges he faces when he gets there. each of it is really -- each one of them is a really truly unique set of circumstances. and it's important not to lose sight of the differences. it was sort of the defining aspects of the presidency.ç >> mike barnicle, you're in this book. >> oh, lord. >> i have the quote right here just in case you forgot, mike. >> what did he do? >> we want to hear it first.

>> this was after the 2008 election after the debate i had with john edwards. and it said i enjoyed listening to the after debate commentary, msnbc chris matthews who usually turns red in the face and starts shouting at the mention of my name paid me a compliment. mike barnicle of the boston herald was also kind. the only thing that surprised him he said was that at the end of the debate, at the end of 90 minutes dick cheney didn't turn to john edwards and say, by the way, give me the car keys too. >> that's good, mike. >> that made my whole night. >> that was in cleveland. >> it was. >> what was the precise point, though, that you decided and suggested to the president of the united states that the united states needed to go to war with iraq? >> well, i think it came out of

9/11 really. >> i remember you going on "meet the press" on 9/11 and pushing back against tim russert's suggestion that maybe saddam hussein was involved. >> well, the question was whether or not we had evidence linking saddam hussein to the attacks of 9/11. and the answer was no, we didn't. later on within a week we had information that the cia provided that said that the lead hijacker had met with seniorç officials of the intelligence service of iraq some months before. now, in the end, they were never able to prove that out. but that was a factor that was presented to us during those months in the fall of 2001. >> the connection between the war and 9/11, it was still worth it? a war based on flawed intelligence? a war that changed the course of this country for good for decades? and also, war based on intelligence that was put out to the american people and many of

them feel deceived about getting behind it at this point? >> where did the intelligence come from? we we weren't the ones that thought this up, it wasn't our intelligence report that contributed all of this. it went back to the clinton administration. and bill clinton made a speech in late 1998 that was as tough as anything i ever said about saddam hussein. and the likelihood he might eventually use weapons of mass destruction. congress passed legislation callicall ing for the overthrow of the government of iraq. >> the way things unfolded after the initial stages of the operation, do you wish you had done things differently? >> well, i can't -- i can't deny that there were complex problems to be dealt with in iraq. there were things that we had anticipated would happen that didn't happen and vice versa. we were concerned, for example, that the iraqis woulddi on

fire all the southern oil fields, didn't happen. we preempted that. there was a conviction that if you just took off the top layer of the government that you could then rely upon the bureaucracy in iraqç underneath that top layer to take over and govern the country. that didn't happen. so there's no question. and i mentioned i've got blanket statements in the book that, you know, we weren't always right in washington, weren't always right in the field. i didn't go into great detail in terms of this debate because obviously a lot of other people already had. it's war. and it's complicated, and it always involves elements that you can't really anticipate. and that's certainly the case here. >> vice president dick cheney. that was september 1st of this year on "morning joe." coming up, does rick santorum have a shot at winning iowa? we'll talk to rick santorum to

discuss his recent rise in the polls. up next, mitt romney compares newt's campaign to lucille ball and the chocolate factory. newt gingrich responds by going to a chocolate factory. with the capital one venture card

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look at that beautiful picture, it's 6:52 in the morning. sam, isn't that exciting? >> it's very exciting. >> yankee stadium. >> it's dark. >> home of champions. >> yes, it is. they're playing a bowl game there. >> tomorrow, i think? >> yeah, pinstripe bowl. playing iowa state. >> glad they're using that billion dollar monstrosity. >> mike barnicle calls itç the world east most expensive food court. >> they have good food there. >> little too good for a baseball stadium. let's do sports, the most despised team last season, miami heat off to a strong start. last night, a tight one against the bobcats in charlotte. game tied at 84, chris bosh, dunk, and the foul gives the heat that late lead, charlotte comes back, charlotte a one-point lead, 95-94. where does miami go?

not to lebron, dwyane wade, a little pump fake, goes glass, 7-footer, puts the heat up one, and looks at cam newton in the front row. mimics he has superman act. sitting there with michael jo dan. one last shot. heat wins 96-95, they start the season, 3-0. now to a sport overseas. british car jumping, hundreds of people were onhand. there there's a lot of cars, not a lot of jumping. they try to clear a row of other smashed vehicles. we're told this particular competition, none of them cleared. they're judged on elevation, distance, and applause from the crowd. no one got over it. this has been going on for seven years and i think the point, perhaps is they don't clear the cars. one more, t.j. there it is. boom. we told you yesterday about

this back and forth. mitt romney said gingrich's inability to get on the ballot in virginia reminded him of lucille ball in the chocolate factory.ç >> you know, i think you compare that to was it to pearl harbor? i think it's more like lucille ball at the chocolate factory. so, i mean, you've got to get it organized. >> i think we're fighting a losing game. >> when i see mistakes, i try to find a little humor. and in this case, lucille ball at the chocolate factory, i hope the speaker understands that was humor and i'm happy to tell my humorous anecdote to him face to face and i look forward to seeing him.

>> a long scheduled event, scheduled before the comment about the chocolate factory. for newt gingrich, where else? but in a chocolate factory in algona, iowa. the place is called chocolate season where i'm told they make great chocolate. the speaker and his wife calista helped make a few bits of chocolate. here's what he said. >> i want to say here i am in the chocolate factory. >> and a good one at that. >> and now that i have the courage to come to the chocolate factory, i hope governor romney will have the courage to debate me one-on-one and defend his negative ads. i don't expect him to do it, but i hope he'll at least buy some chocolate if he comes by. >> something about gingrich and the chocolate factory. >> you crack him open and he's filled with creamy caramel. do his cultural references end in the '60s?%,5

>> lucille ball in the chocolate factory. coming up, will wisconsin governor scott walker keep his job in 2012? he'll join us live this morning to discuss the recall effort against him. also, the reverend al sharpton joins the conversation, and chuck todd live from iowa. we'll be right back. what is it about taking a first step that we find so compelling? is it because taking a step represents hope?

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imagine if you'd had a race with mitch daniels or with a ron -- or with paul ryan, christie, jindal, and others, senator thune, a completely different complexion. and i think with some of those sort of embarrassing candidates like cain and others along the way, it has made the president who is by -- by who he is presidential look better. >> charles c"zé=zrkrauthammer news last night. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 7:00 here in new york city. a beautiful picture of the sun coming up over the white house. joined by michael steele, dr. jeffrey sachs, and the host of "politics nation" every night on msnbc every night the reverend

al sharpton. good to see you. >> good morning, good morning. >> it seems likqç a lot of conservatives if you listen to charles krauthammer, can't get over it. they can't fall in love with the person in front of them. still not satisfied with what's in front of them. >> well, that i think they're right. you have not a compelling candidate. but i think what they're also going to find is they don't have a compelling message. i think that when we get through the horse race and americans really focus in on what we are choosing between and what's at stake, i think they're going to have as much of a problem because we are in serious times and you're going to have to deal with some serious policy questions that has not come to the forefront yet. because basically as mediocre to bad in my judgment as these candidates are, they're not really saying that much of a difference in terms of policy. and they've gone way to the right. the moderate republicans when i

was growing up here in brooklyn of jacob javers and john lindsey is all gone, they couldn't survive in this party. and when the american public, not the just iowan conservative, but the american public hears that, you're going to see a rude awakening. i was reading gayle collins' column this morning, and with all due respect to iowa, we are talking about a state that is very, very conservative, never elected a woman govern or congresswoman and about 150,000 people go out and vote. now, we must respect that, but that's not reflective of america. you have some football college games that draw that amount of people and it's far more diverse. let's deal with the fact that we have a policy showdown in this cub. country. >> someone's going to spring out of iowa with momentum and new

money behind them. back to your original point, you don't think mitt romney has serious ideas? you don't think he's a serious candidate? you can write off some of the other people, but mitt romney -- >> i think he has serious ideas, i think those ideas would scare a lot of the american public. and i think that when the public hears them and hears that he is serious, then we get down to we're not talking about obama care, we're talking about your health care, we're talking about your social security, we're talking about your medicare. when it starts coming into my house. that's why i said when i spoke at the martin luther memorial, it's not -- a lot of america's going to say wait a minute, right now it's all personality driven. when it's people driven, i think you're going to see a different reaction. >> the reverend is right up to a point about -- >> i almost got happy. >> yeah. >> until a point the reverend is correct. >> but a very good point. >> well, all things are relevant

in life, and this is one of those relevant moments. and i think the reality is true, number one, to the core out there, whether it's krauthammer, billy crystal, or any of them, get over it. this is the field. one of these individuals is going to emerge as the candidate. the nominee. you're going to get with the ship or you're going to get off of it. that's the reality of it. you're not going to change it. the wishing is just silly at this point. it çundermines any efforts, gis individuals like reverend al to talk about mediocrity and say all of these things to kind of put a narrative around these candidates that just isn't legitimate. you've got individuals who have run states, made big important decisions that the federal government hasn't been able to make. whether you like romney's plan or not, he was innovative on health care to get out in front. he did what hillary clinton and bill clinton couldn't do in his state. so the states are the laboratories for a lot of things that are happening. we're seeing how voters react

and respond to that in wisconsin and elsewhere. so they bring something legitimate to the debate. i think the reverend is right to the point that the american people will judge that. one on one and make that my mama versus obama decision for themselves. but in a context that is a legitimate one, not one that's been delegitimized because you're wishing for someone else to show up who's not coming to the dance. >> and i think that'll be a great thing in the general election. a man who says he brought health care to his state when the clintons couldn't bring it against the man who did bring it to the country. keep that line, we can use that in november. >> well, you can use it all you want. the point of the reality is what you bring matters. as we saw in 2010, the people did not want what obama brought. and so that's part of the response to 2010. the question now to your earlier point about messaging where i think you're absolutely right, the gop has been so off message since they won in 2010 that it's

unbelievable how you squander and miss the opportunity to galvanize that support to use the momentum that you've got in the house with these new members who are actually doing what the voters asked them to do, how you mismanage the messaging on ryan's plan, how you mismanage the messaging for the governor of wisconsin and dealing with local issues if you will of collective bargaining. those things matter in a bigger scheme when you're talking about a presidential race where you have our friends on the left who will use that as fodder to muddy up our nominee. >> i think where the reverend's exactly right is the whole republican party is running so far to the right, people are going to be amazed when the horse race is over and look at what romney, the presumptive front runner is saying. because it's amazing. he's really got a plan that is far to the right. cut the corporate taxes, cut the top tax rate for the rich, cut the capital gains, do

everything. slash medicaid. he talks about entitlements, but like you say, that's people's social security. >> that's right. >> people haven't focused on that yet. so it's -- >> future entitlements, not current -- you're acting as if if romney gets elected, the next day, every citizen in the country is going to louz their health care. >> no, no -- >> here's -- >> that's the point. that goes to my point about the messaging. be clear about what you're going to do. you're talking about my 23-year-old son and his generation moving into a system that is more than bankrupt and broken for them. to fix it now, to give them the flexibility using the marketplace, using the stability of the current system to give them options and choices. why can't you have that conversation without going into this right and left? >> because they're not in the conversation saying that. they're playing this demagogue game that they're goingç to co in and do all of this over night.

which is why they've lost a lot of their momentum because they did promise something they couldn't do, even to the far right. and he's not bringing that into the conversation now. you are in many ways bringing the conversation they're not bringing. they should have kept you as chairman. they didn't. >> yeah, well -- >> now they've got to deal with the reality is that they're losing -- >> happier folks -- >> the other thing, and i'll stop with this, but the other thing i think they inadvertently did, people on the far left that would've challenged this president in his own party were so afraid of where they were going, he had no problem on the far left of his own party because people didn't want to feed into in any way empowering them. >> we've got chuck todd live in iowa with us now. i want to bring him in, he's in des moines, the nbc chief white house correspondent, political director, host of the daily rundown. chuck, good morning, what are you looking at out there today? >> hey, good morning.

i'm here in our home away from home for the next couple of days, for all of us here at java joes. a little early here. we've got that one hour to beat you. but, you know, look, everything is sort of funny to see the deck of cards thrown up in the air when you see this one poll showing that the one candidate who did this the old-fashioned way in iowa, one county at a time going from activist to activist. the eight people in coffee shop campaigning that made iowa famous over the last couple of decades. rick santorum finally at the end seeing effortsç paying off. it'll be interesting, we have our own msnbc maris poll, and it'll be interesting to see if we confirm sort so far similar numbers to what cnn showed on that with santorum, willie. >> we talked to mark haleprin earlier this morning, he said look at what he's seeing on the ground there, the way the race

is moving, it's mitt romney's to lose. do you agree with that? >> well, i wouldn't go it's mitt romney's to lose. this assumes one thing here, right? if you take the poll at face value for now, what's fascinating to me is numbers one and two there, romney and paul add up to 47%, three, four, five, and six add up to 50%. what do the three through six candidates have in common? they're all trying to be the conservative alternative to romney. they're trying to appeal to evangelicals, a big voting block out here. what aye noticed there's clearly a fear among the evangelical community here and the conservative activist community they are going to splinter that sort of 50 accou% of the vote. and means romney can win with 25%, 26%. so if you say that's definitely going to happen, yes, it's romney's to lose. look at what happened in the last 24 hours, bachmann lost her

co-chair. that's an attempt to do everything you can to have her lose support if you will. to see her support go down. granted it went to paul who is somebody who is not fully going after that christian conservative vote. but if she starts dropping, then all of a sudden candidates splitting that 50%, which is about what the evangelicalç vo is here. and then all of a sudden if it gets down to two over the weekend and perry is seen as faltering at tend, then all of a sudden i wouldn't say it was romney's to lose. let's see what happens. there's a lot of volatility in that conservative slot. and if it ever unites, then all of a sudden i don't think it's romney's to lose. >> chuck, we've got sam stein with us. he's seated over at our poughkeepsie bureau. >> it's lonely out here. >> kent sorenson goes to ron paul, we're going to forget the

name in about three hours, but between now and the actual voting, is there anything that can happen that can actually affect the race in one way or another? are we basically locked in and it's all down to the voters making their judgments? >> i don't know if it's fully locked in. look, there's a lot of he said/he said about why did kent sorenson leave bachmann? and the bachmann people are throwing out money as a reason. and, you know, let's take it away. this is not able personal money, this is about the ability to finance the vote. people supportive of ken sorenson, that the folks out here, that they expect, and all of a sudden bachmann doesn't have the resources to do that. so when you say is there any one thing that could happen? no, maybe it's already happening. michelle bachmann doesn't have the money to do the organization she did during the straw poll. maybe her 9% or 10% ends up being a 2% or 3%.

and suddenly that 50% of the vote being split among the conservative candidates isç suddenly instead of being divided by four, getting divided by three. and depending on how gingrich or perry survive here, you know, and whether santorum can take advantage of this moment, is it divided by 2, 2 1/2. if that happens, somebody can get a shot in the arm. there does seem to be an attempt by the sort of activist community here in iowa to make sure if romney or paul win, they think it's a blow to them long-term, sort of a blow to their power structure. >> all right. chuck todd, tell them to keep the coffee warm for us. >> you got it, brother. >> we'll have more of your interview with newt gingrich, by the way, coming up at the "daily rundown" 9:00 eastern time. kocoming up, a "morning joe rewind, what happened when regis dropped by the set. but up next, is it rick santorum's time in iowa. he the candidate joins us to

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from coralville, iowa, the former senator from pennsylvania, rick santorum. senator, thanks for being with us this morning. >> hey, willie, how are you? >> i'm doing well. we've been talking about this cnn "time" poll showing you surging up to 16% support in iowa and has newt gingrich dropping down to 14%. within about eight or nine points of the lead there. i guess the question is, what makes you different? we've seen so many contenders to mitt romney's presumed throne over the last several months, we can go back to donald trump, go to herman cain, michele bachmann, rick perry, what makes you different? >> well, i've been through this before. identify been in very tough

races in pennsylvania. a lot of national media coverage. i've been scrubbed and scoured and people know if there's anything out there, it's out there, and that's a good thing. no surprises, and i've got a strong, consistent, conservative record. and i've got aç married -- one time, seven children, live a pretty boring life except the fact that we have seven children which keeps us busy. but you know, there's really -- authenticity here, i don't claim to be anything than what i am. and the people in iowa over the course of the last few months have been sizing up the candidates and looking for someone they can trust that's going to go out there and be the sharp contrast to barack obama. and now that folks are making that decision, they're coming to the guy that has the best and strongest record and the strongest plan to get this country going. and i've been laying that plan out. and it's getting a lot of positive response. >> you clearly have put almost all of your eggs in the iowa

basket. you spent much more time there than any other candidate. in fact, it looks like that's beginning to pay off. how concerned are you, though, that if you do well, if you finish well on tuesday that you will not have resources or that you haven't planned for future states down the road. >> i think i've been to south carolina more than any other candidate in this race, and other than huntsman and romney who basically live in new hampshire, i've been in new hampshire more than anybody else. i've been in new hampshire over 30 times and i have done literally over 100 town hall meetings in new hampshire. if you go to our head quarters today, it'll be teeming with volunteers, making phone calls into new hampshire, and we've got 25 state representatives, state senator, county attorneys, sheriffs, we've got a lot of endorsements and supports in the state of new hampshire. i have no doubt as we continue to do well here in iowa that that trend is going to continue when we get to new hampshire. >> senator, we have the reverend

al sharpton with a question. >> good morning. senator, you look beyondç iowa say you do well, what would your presidency -- if you were to be president, say to the rest of america? we're dealing with a president that had to deal with a bp oil spill, that has had to deal with u.n. crisis, an economy that fell apart, what makes you say to a broader america that you're the guy that could wake up in the morning and help bring us back? i could argue with you about some of your ugly statements on the president and all of that, but that would probably help you in the primary if you and i go the in an argument this morning. i'm more concerned about -- >> go ahead, al. give it to me, al. >> you've said despicable and ugly things, but we'll do that on "politics nation" one night. don't let me help you win the caucus. what is your vision that could turn this country around and show you're more competent than barack obama who has brought us through several crisis that your party help eed put us in?

>> well, i would say there are several crises that barack obama has not brought us through and a lot of them on a national security basis. look at what's going on in irish with the development of a nuclear we that can change the posture of the entire western world, including the united states and israel. look at what's happened in egypt. >> what would you do? what would you do? what would you do? >> well, i'd -- yeah, if you look at again, look at my experience. i served eight years on the armed services committee, active on national security matters including iran and syria, two major pieces of legislation where i led the fight and was opposed by joe biden and in iran's case, opposed by barack obama initially, fought that battle and eventually won and got every person in the united states senate to vote for the @i sanctions on iran's nuclear program when as a matter of fact joe biden was standing up saying it didn't exist. the bottom line is, i've got a

strong track of leading on national security matters, of having a strong presence around the world and making sure that america was safe, that our allies would feel comfortable, that they could trust us and our enemies would respect us and in the cases of folks like iran and other rogue nations fear us. those are the kinds of differences i would have between barack obama and rick santorum is experience. i didn't serve two years in the united states senate before i ran for president, i served 12 years. go back and look at my record in pennsylvania. and what i did in the poor communities in pennsylvania. we've got a good, strong record of reaching out all across to different income levels, different groups, and making sure that we could unite and trying to make sure that pennsylvania and the country was a better place to be. >> and by the way, senator, in the 90 seconds since your brief debate with reverend sharpton began, you've gone up eight points in iowa. so congratulations. chairman michael steele. >> can i keep talking for a while? >> i didn't tell him what i

really think about him. >> remember you're a reverend, reverend. senator, it's good to see you again. and i have -- >> hey, michael. >> one, i have been impressed with your ability to navigate the edges of the social conservative movement which a lot of people want to wrap you around. but you have been able to talk more broadly to show your experience. my question is it's now january, following reverend sharpton's point, it's now january 13, the top marginal tax rate goes from 39% to 47% under obama care. i want to talk about a tax increase is going to happen because obama's baked it in the economic cake. what does a president santorum do on the domestic front with the looming responsibilities on small business owners from obama care and the health care mess that is to come when those --

when that plan actually goes into effect in 2013? how would you begin to handle domestically and economically that issue? >> well, on the issue of obama care, one of the things we can do is with 50 united states senators who are republicans, and that's a pickup of three, and as you know, michael, probably the minimum we'll pick up in this nation thanks in part to ben nelson retiring and other folks. the bottom line is if we have 50 republican senators and i think it's very, very likely, we can use the reconciliation process, the budget process that does not require 60 votes in the senate to repeal a bill and repeal all of the taxes, all of the spending, all the fees and fines that obama care puts in place. we basically gut obama care. and in doing so, those taxes would not go into effect. we'd be able to repeal all of the regulations that obama has put in place with respect to implementing obama care to date. and so you in a sense neuter

that bill, create some shell language out there that has some requirements, but no funding to back it up, no fines to penalize people to do it. in a sense, we can repeal obama care if we pick up three votes in the united states senate. and i have no doubt that we'll do that. i have no doubt we'll repeal obama care in effect and eventually pass another program that is a bottom up not top down solution to the health care problem that we have in this country and we do have a problem, i agree with that. and it's the biggest problem is government involvement in health care and we need to change that. >> sam stein is with us with a question. >> hi, senator, actually two questions. one is in 2009, as recently as 2009, you're videotaped saying you defend your marks, earmarks you passed. i'm wondering if you still hold on to that view. and secondly, i want a clarification on a quote made yesterday which is if you graduate from high school and get married before you have children that you will be economically successful. do you not know anyone who is a

not a high school graduate not married with children who is not economically successful? >> if you look at this study from 2009 that said if you graduate from high school, married before you have children, and obviously work, you have to work, the poverty rate among folks with that criteria is 2%. people who meet that criteria have -- with incomes over $50,000 a year, 74%. so people who don't meet that criteria have a poverty rate of 77%. i'm reaching back a little bit in the study. but that's a huge -- and by the way, being above 50,000 in income is 2%. it's almost a reverse. so this isn't rick santorum talking, this is not a conservative think tank talking. this is the brookings institute study from two years ago. and i have some friends that i used to work with who work over in brookings who shared that information with me. and it makes a heck of a lot of sense and so the answer is, do i know somebody, i'm sure there are 2% of the people out there

who meet that criteria. there are some, it's a very low percentage. and what i've said, shouldn't we be talking about, you know, marriage and the importance of marriage from an economic perspective? shouldn't we talk about, you know, obviously having an education system that focuses on kids, you know, getting through high school and having a personalized education system in this country where we don't educate children writ large but actually focus and working with parents to make sure we get their children the necessary support to be able to get through high school instead of just, you know, having them be sort of a number going through the system. this is just kind of a dramatic change that we need in this country. and presidents can lead on that. i'm not saying we need a federal system of education. in fact, just the opposite. not federal programs necessarily to accomplish marriage -- but we need a president who can talk about those things. >> when you get through talking, how do you do it if the federal government is not going to do it? and i might remind you, you're running to be the head of the federal government. how are you against something that you're running to be in

charge of? isn't that a little skitso? >> that's the difference between you and me. >> there's a whole lot of them. >> that's right. and the big one is that the federal government shouldn't have to do everything. in fact, what we need to do. i'll give you an example. in chattanooga, tennessee, there was a program called first things first, becauseñ-ñr the pe in chattanooga found they had the highest rates of single parenthood rates in the state. and business leaders, educators, government, worked together to promote marriage and fatherhood. that's how we need to do it, from the bottom up, but a president can lead in getting that going across the nation by using the bully pulpit and the ability heç has to communicate those messages. >> senator, i want to ask you one question, a new story we've been debating here and talking about how as president would you respond to the threat from iran that's just today and over the last week or so that they would

close the strait if the threat of western sanctions are not removed? what would you do as president? >> well, i've already laid out a five-point plan of what i would do with iran -- >> in this particular case, what would you do? >> i would follow through with the sanctions, i would follow through, and then be prepared o to, you know, confront the consequences from iran. but closing the straits however temporarily is much less of a threat to the united states than a nuclear iran will be for years to come. >> senator rick santorum, we'll get you and reverend sharpton together on "politics nation" at 6:00. >> if you do it tonight, you might win the caucus. >> i think it's good strategy, senator. good luck out there. we'll be seeing you in iowa. thank you so much. beginning monday, "morning joe" will be live from iowa at java joes covering the caucuses. we'll see you there. coming up next, our "morning

joe" rewind, regis ponders life after tv. >> he hasn't been on tv for a while. do you miss it? a few weeks later, do you miss it? >> oh, come on. >> no, i don't miss it. i'm looking forward to something else, i don't know what it is. >> downhill skiing? >> that would be nice. >> you're great at tv. >> 28 1/2 years. >> we need a full 30. progresso. it fits! fantastic! [ man ] pro-gresso they fit! okay-y... okay??? i've been eating progresso and now my favorite old jeans...fit. okay is there a woman i can talk to? [ male announcer ] progresso. 40 soups 100 calories or less.

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in this "morning joe" rewind, regis philbin joined us to share some of the highlights of his long career that he tells about in his new book "how i got this way." >> why did you write it? when did you write it? how did you write it? >> by longhand because i don't type. i was writing little passages about the people i met along the way. something i wanted to remember. and all of a sudden, it kind of grew and grew and one day i was at a party for harper collins for susan lucci's book and because i know her and do you write anything? and i said, well, i've got some certain things and passed it on and they said, hey, this could be a book and that's how it happened.

>> you know, i first came in contact with you when i was down in northwest florida watching you on letterman. >> yeah. >> you always -- letterman used you as a punching bag for a while. and i said, man, he's awfully tough. you're one of the few people that have stayed in contact with david letterman. most people say, the guy's kind of strange. but you two seem to have something. >> i get a tremendous kick out of him. and in the book i say -- and i knew all of those guys from steve allen through johnny, through joey that i think dave letterman is -- i'm sorry, i really think he's the best we've ever had in that position. >> absolutely. >> butç look at this for david letterman. sometimes -- it's kind of like the old commercial, sometimes you know people aren't trying. and in this case, he's taken it forward about abraham lincoln. >> that's right. is it too silly that regis

philbin replaces abraham lincoln in that piece? see how dave feels about me. >> you've talked about letterman, who else? through the years, can you think of one person that you met where you went, man, that guy has it. i ask this, by the way, of jerry, and he surprised me of elvis and sinatra and all the people he'd been around. ronald reagan filled up a room like nobody. who have you met? >> well, i tell you, you mentioned a lot of people there. reagan when i was starting my show in 1961 in san diego, it was a late night saturday night show. it was live and it was my beginning. and all of a sudden we had reagan as a guest. he just happened to be in san diego that weekend. and i was the producer of the show in addition to doing it. so i called his office and sure enough, he'll come. so he came down the hill from the el cortez hotel, and sat down with me and we had -- it

was way before -- i didn't even think of him in terms of politics. but he had an open airness about him of fresh appeal. and he was terrific. he just talked about this country and what he loved about it and his growing up in the midwest and so forth and so on. such an appealing guy that after the show was over, i said to my director. i said, tom, we've had a lot of guests on the show, but this guy's incredible and he said he really is. and about three yearsç later, became governor of california. and so one night -- by that time i was on with the "joey bishop show." and joey thought it would be nice for regis to meet the governor -- yet i'd already met him and he remembered that interview and i remembered it, of course. so, joey, when did this happen. i can't believe this. but reagan was a sensational guest. over the years, to sit with joe dimaggio just for 20 minutes

alone! me and the yankee clipper! are you listening to me? >> no. >> i'm listening, man. >> so it's interesting when you talk about people who stood out over the years. you went through a transition with your show where you had to pick a new cohost, you had incredible success with kathie lee and then with kelly. what is the key to a good cohost? >> you've got to be patient. very patient. >> especially with kathie lee. >> and kind of get in the -- their swing of things, do you know what i mean? work with their charisma and work with their personality. that's what helps a lot. >> dean martin, dean crosby. the list goes on and on. >> dean martin. >> i went to the copa cabana years ago and there was dean and jerry, and i had read about them and heard about them, but never seen them in person, and of course, they were phenomenal,

and lewis came out breaking dishes and raising hell and raising laughs, but he was giving jerry by his own lines he was just as funny. and even better looking than jerryç and sang a beautiful so, sounded like crosby. so i said you know, i'm going to follow this guy for the rest of his life. but dean out in hollywood was elusive. always out playing golf with his friends and very little rehearsal for his shows. and then one day i went -- i was the entertainment editor at kabc out there and -- tv, and i went to the studios to see burt reynolds making a movie. and dean and sammy davis had cameo roles in the movie and so there was dean's agent and he said go inside, dean's in there alone, have a chat with him. and there i am alone with dean, you know, and i was telling him all about the kopa cabana and

how years later i was working out in a plastics factory out in long island and during the summer home from school from notre dame. and it was midnight till 8:00 in the morning job and the only way to get me out of the house was to listen to dean sing this song "one foot in heaven." i told him that story and he said, what was the name of that? and i said one foot in heaven. he said sing it to me. i hadn't sung the song ever, but i remembered it and i sang the whole thing to dean martin. at the end of that, dean said, it's a nice song, regis, but i never sang it. now i know he sang it. i know he sang it because i had it on the apollo record. it was stupid to waste all that time and then knock on the door, dean, they need you and that was the end. but i had dean right this. >> and you blew it! >> blew it. >> how did you blow your time with crosby?ç >> it's a terrible story. when i was a kid growing up in

new york city -- >> these are all my nightmare encounters with stars. >> had a big crosby half hour, 9:30 at night and this is in the late '30s, and the depression is on and crosby's singing "pennies in heaven," all the songs the song writers were writing to bolster the hope of the american people. and he would sing them beautifully and i was attracted to his voice. it was warm, friendly, and great, and also all through my life i wanted to be bing crosby. when it came time to graduate, my parents expected me to tell them what i wanted to be. and i found a guy who could play the piano and i said can you play "pennies to heaven?" i'm going to tell my mother and father i want to be bing crosby. he's waiting in the music hall, my mother and father arrive, we walk across the campus, i sing pennies from heaven. as i'm singing the song, my

italian mother starts to cry. my irish father who is, you know, former marine boxer -- >> tough guy. >> he's making a fist like he's going to smack me in the nose. as soon as i finish the song, i say, you know what? you're absolutely right. i'm never going to be bing crosby. forget it. it's a dream i'm going to give away and maybe i'll work inxó[. years go by, bishop show, bing as a guest, i'm going to sit right next to bing crosby, and i used to tell bishop as we took walks, what did you want to be as a kid? and i said i wanted to be bing crosby. they get him to sing on the show. see this kid,ç biggest fan you ever had. go ahead, sing a song. so he turns like this and sings a capella. beautiful. and the bishop hadn't had enough. now regis, it's your turn, you sing a song to bing. he knew all of your lyrics when he was 6 years old. i sang "pennies from heaven" to

bing crosby. and he chimes in. but here's the punch line, i never told him what he meant to me. i never wrote a letter made a phone call, i was too intimidated by his presence to say, bing, this is how it all started for me. you were the one who inspired me, who influenced me. and i can't tell you, i can't thank you enough. >> one of the great guys in our business, regis philbin, wishing him the best. the first look at the new issue of "time" magazine. let

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now to reveal the cover of the new issue of "time" magazine. great to see you again. >> good morning. >> you said something very funny

in our commercial break. we give you tough acts to follow on this show. >> last time i was on i followed larry david, so that was sort of a high bar. and now you're putting me on after regis philbin. i feel i should go home. >> next time you're on, we'll have the dalai lama. we're glad you're here. this is a great issue. 2012 users guide. tell us about it. >> well, as the year drew to an end, we started thinking about where the big news stories were going to be next year. and we were talking editorially about, you know, what are we going to be tracking? where are we going to be? and we thought, oh, we should bring the readers in on this, they're going to want to know. so we fast forwarded through the year and we're bringing you basically a guide to sort of where news is going to happen and someç of our educated guess and thoughts about what that news might be. >> and i love you start with the thing that's going to happen the soonest in 2012, which is the

primary, you've got michael crowley making a prediction about a late entrance, perhaps, or a third party candidate. >> perhaps that, but more important, for all of us who have been watching the 14,000 debates that they've had. you feel like you're at the end of the primary season already. it's actually just beginning with iowa next week. and the two things we want you to look out for is it's going to be longer this time because a lot of states have gone to a proportional representation system. so we're going to see it take longer for people to accrue the delegates they need. the other thing is because of the influx of super pac money and you're seeing this in iowa and new hampshire already, there's a lot more money to throw around for super pacs to be advertising. it's going to be noisier, looking a little meaner. >> yes, sam, everyone's saying if romney wins or places second, he coasts to the nomination. but it's a little bit different this year the way delegates are handed out. >> those two points are valid.

the way delegates are handed out could lead to a more prolonged process. it's interesting. mitt romney has the wealthiest super pac backing him. these things also tend to take -- momentum srts to roll and more shorten process than you anticipated. 2008 was the exceptional to the rule, i think. where you saw hillary clinton and president obama, they ended up going seemingly forever, i think with all of these othurç candidates, they don't have the resources to sustain him. >> 2011 was an incredible year in middle east, what happens in 2012, you guys are looking at that question. >> the arab spring is not over by any means if i said last year, some dictators who have been power would fall. you would have laughed me off the set. these things are ongoing. still a lot of uncertainties in

places like libya. you see yemen where the president has promised to step down in february after elections. is that going to happen? where is he going for medical treatment? there will be a lot more news coming out of the middle east. >> we saw these can dictators fall, lot of the questions, is what happens next? we may get some more clarity on that in 2012. >> what a great issue, by the way. you have everything covered. including fareed zack ya saying that no one will be able b able to lead in 2012. >> right, he mentioned brazil, india, these countries have a lot going on at home. they're not stepping up to the world's stage as much as the post-america world might like to see. >> you're giving us a complete forecast for 2012.

the weather is -- >> the weather is always a fascinating story. we like to predict it. make your memorial day plans now, no. we got jim cantore from the weather channel, to talkç to u about 2011 was a crazy year in weather, a very expensive year in weather. 12 big weather events in the united states alone that cost more than $1 billion, we can't afford those kind of situations. we can't control the weather. we can control how we prepare for it. >> doctor, that's graphic is astounding. heat waves. hurricanes. and of course, the big snows that fell in chicago, but also here in the northeast this year. >> the sad truth is, we can do something about the weather and we have been doing something about the weather, we have making it more and more unstable and we have been running away from that. your graphic here is really

shocking. how many disasters have hit the u.s. if you did a worldwide map, you would see the same thing. massive floods and typhoon and looked at what happened in japan, we could have an earthquake combatted with a tsunami. >> we got to ask you before we go, in 2012, the world is going to end -- >> we're hoping -- we thought it might be our last annual issue, rumors that hollywood has run with it the mayan calendar has predicted the end of the world in 2012. if you want to go out in style, make your plans for the condo style. >> they're not rumors. >> sam has good sources. december 12th, 2012, the world wimé end. thank you so much, great to have

you here. >> thank you. scott walker joins us. we'll ask him about 2012 and about his strategy to fight the recall effort against him in the state of wisconsin. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

tomorrow -- we continue with our biggest interviews of the year.

morning joe rewind with president bill clinton and also jimmy fallon. coming up next here the the closing arguments in iowa. five days away from the voting. we'll break down the republican candidates' final push and rick santorum's surge yesterday in the poll. we'll be right back on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. and more. if you replace 3 tablespoons of sugar a day with splenda®, you'll save 100 calories a day. that could help you lose up to 10 pounds in a year.

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♪ we always felt like, you know, we can trust the people of iowa, when they got down to time to look at all of the candidates, they saw the opportunity that we

do well. if the money's not coming in, you just got to work harder. we're continuing to work harder. we're doing radio shows at 6:00 in the morning here, going until 10:00 at night. 357 town hall meetings i have done in the state of iowa, you know, hard work pays off. good morning. welcome back to "morning joe." 8:00 here on the east coast. a live look atç new york city. let's get right to these polls. i want to break it down for you. the cnn/time research poll. a new poll shaking up this race just a little bit. check it out. mitt romney on top 25%, support among likely republican voters. ron paul in a close second. the story here, though, rick santorum, up 11 points, since the last poll just a few weeks ago, at 16% and newt gingrich

down 19 points, at 14%. andrea, i'll start with you, what do you read into that poll is the. >> the fact is, that gingrich is really in a dive, that's clear, he hasn't figured out to do to turn this around. i don't think going to a chocolate factory and mimicking what romney did on lucille ball is going to do it. i think he's got to talk about what propelled him to the top right away. he came back by showing that not only he could be debate but talk about substance, what people wanted to hear. override the fact that he didn't have good organization. santorum has been working very hard and he could become an alternative for evangelicals who are concerned about bachmann, that she hasn't shown the

seriousness they first thought she had back in ames. of course, ron paul is the continuing tibeat to all of the rest of the conservative and libertarians and evangelicals. it's pretty good for mitt romney. romney will be able to be the, even though, he doesn't have 15%, if the conservative candidates are that badly divided. >> the poll surveyed only registered republican. that's important. independents can't caucus in iowa. but they can change their registration when they arrive. what does the santorum leap of 11 points in a couple of weeks tell you? >> one more target for the establishment inside the gop to go after the next few days. to protect whatever support they want to rally around romney. i think it's also with respect

to newt, you know, that's what $10 million will do to you. when it's put on the air every day and you're just slammed from your right and from your center right, for two weeks, and i think going into the next few days, you'll see santorum, if he's smart and a cool cucumber and he has been, i think he's going to sort of get around the front-runner or the moving into the next phase of being the front-runner part of this and stay focused on his ground game that they put in place for the last year and continuing to knock on those doors and have those coffee clashes in homes. it's going to be balmy weather, good weather for folks to turn out. as you noted, the i understan ç understand -- independents haven't been captured out there. still a lot of volatility out

here. >> santorum going hard after mitt romney, start attacking him, listen, it's going to be me or him. >> no one has done that. mitt is one of the luckiest guys out there. this whole thing, everyone else has been the target, but mitt has fortunately skewed that opportunity to be that target on stage. the political kill shot to bring him down on health care, abortion or any number of issues on which he has some real vulnerability and one more thing about gingrich, it's funny to see him at a chocolate factory. the other thing is, hasn't he -- he's his own worst enemy. he's challenging mitt romney to debate. why doesn't he use that.

if you can't debate me how do we expect you to go out and beat president obama. >> mitt romney has to like what he's looking here, best chance of beating obama. in iowa, they believe mitt romney is the guy by 24 points. >> after this, everyone had their week in the sun. romney is there. do you think he can wrap this up quickly. >> i think they'll try to. the schedule willç allow them do at least in terms of getting that early momentum. i still say, there's a lot of volatility on the ground. new hampshire and south carolina are going to be cap shoots in terms of who's going to walk out there. >> interesting to watch how romney has handled iowa. didn't want to raise

expectations. he's going to be there for another day and return next week to show that he wants to be on the doorstep if this happens on tuesday. how has he handled this state compared the way he did in 2008? >> i think he has done a brilliant effort of lowering expectations. he has the super pac doing all of the dirty work for him and muddying up newt gingrich. and i think that he has played the expectations -- the game so smartly, unless there's a big shift and this could happen, so many undecided voters, we have seen how these changes have taken place, he's well positioned to come out of there winning it or number two. either way it's a win. >> newt gingrich was down playing his drop in the poll yesterday. insisting you don't have to win

in these early races to stay in the game. >> top three or four, whether they're all bunched. what if you have four people tied? what if you have ron paul win? that point, i think -- people just shake their head and go to the nextç topic. that's right. if you look where we first put our team -- our biggest team is in south carolina. >> newt gingrich saying in iowa, he doesn't have to be on the medal stand to move forward. john mccain came in second. gingrich's campaign isn't mccain's campaign. >> i think we're seeing the last days of newt gingrich. if he's not in the top two, i think he's got nowhere else to

go. >> we need to talk about ron paul, too. there was a coup last night. michele bachmann deflected to ron paul's team. >> it's tough for me. i have been serving as michele bachmann's chair over the last year. why michele has fought for my conservative values, i believe we're at a turning point in this campaign. áa=iqu9%qe to elect a conservative. someone who holds our values dear. when the republican establishment coming at him over the next few days, i thought i should come to his end. we're going to take ron paul all

of the way to the white house 2012.ç >> sorenson said that he switched to ron paul because of paul's past support of him. an official statement, michele bachmann said that, kent sorenson personally told me he was offered a large sum of money to go to work for the paul campaign. kent said to me yesterday, that everyone sells out in iowa. sorenson said that he was not lured away by cash. sam stein, does this matter? >> something tells me that we're going to forget the name kent sorenson in a matter of days. >> maybe hours. >> this is a huge joke. you know, he's like really transparent about it. michele wasn't going to win. >> i want to go with the guy who

at least going to be number two. >> bachmann is famous for throwing out statements that don't make any sense. >> let's talk about where ron paul is, because if you look at those polls, he's right there at the top with romney, where does he fit in here? >> he's got a great platform right now for iowa, he has devoted followers. lot of them are college students. they're in-state kids. they're going to be in iowa. he has a built-in base. the expectation is at least that he has nowhere else to go from here. i think he could haveç a reall interesting effect on the totality of the race, but if you give his record some close scrutiny, he would be a troubling nominee for the republican party.

gingrich was probably right when he said, it wouldn't probably be a good race for him to run against obama. there are some interesting things out there. >> well, i start with the news letter and go from there. i think beyond the party is a tough sale for a lot of folks. i don't know too many republicans want to be on a show like this, discussing this issue. number one. number two, to your point, sam, about the organization that's critically important when you look at states like south carolina and new hampshire, in particular where you got that third factor, where independents and others can kind of get into the game with the open primary process. ron paul coming out of iowa one or two, has the opportunity to at least cause a consternation for some folks when you get to new hampshire and south carolina. >> if romney finishes second to ron paul, nobody's going to be

like, oh, no, they expect ron paul to fall off. >> if everybody is going with the conventional wisdom that romney is our eventual nominee, you got to show him more than 25%. i'm sorry. you have to show that the base is going to be behind the numbers. you cannot sit there and play this rose garden strategy of everybody else divide the spoils and i'll get at least 30% in the vote and move on to tho next race. >> andrea, if he comes first or second in iowa, doesn't he start to pick up that momentum? >> he picks up the momentum. because they he has to head south. to south carolina. ron paul can be a factor not being the nominee, he can be a

factor because he could be a third-party nominee. >> ron paul has a new add that goes after both gingrich and romney. >> the washington machine is struggling oing our shoulders. one man stands alone. a real plan to cut a trillion dollars year one. balance the budget. in three. consistent. incorruptible. guided by faith and principal. ron paul, the one we have been looking for. >> i'm ron paul and i approve this message. >> there's a lot in ron paul's record to scare you, but his central message of shrinking government and making washington fix, resonates with people. >> i don't know if he wants to make it work again, he wants to close it down. if anyone took it seriously,

because i don't think he's going anywhere, people would be horrified, he not only wants to close three departments but five departments. department of education. go after every environmental regulation. he'sç not going anywhere. what's amazing is how far right every single republican candidate is right now. i don't know how they can make any ground up in the middle. they're basically saying they're going to close down large parts of government and americans don't want that. they haven't pushed toward the cent center, it's pushed quite far to the far right. and i don't know how even romney is going to make up ground. because his, his economic plans are extreme as well. >> coming up, a look back at "morning joe"'s best interviews

of 2011. our sit-down interview with rob lowe is next. and our interview with governor scott walker, he's fighting a strong recall. he'll join us discuss next to decision cuss the turbulent state in wisconsin. a slow weather day quickly update your forecast. there's no bad weather out there. just some rain and snow showers in chicago. bottom half of the country is just fine. last year at this time, we had about 48% of the lower 48 had snow covered. anywhere in the blue. the map of what we're doing right now, 23% of our country right now covered in snow, a snowless winter for many areas, this was the weather pattern that we have been in this month, very warm in the eastern half of the country.

lot ofç rain, not the cold airo get the snow. let me show what's going to change as we go through this first week of january. complete pattern revaersal. cold air from canada. shot from the great lakes, starting monday next week. that will be the theme. question is, will we get the storms and not just the cold air, that will determine if we have a snowy january and up. cold. not a lot of snow, at least not yet. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. oh it's clearance time!

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from you can milwaukee, the republican governor of wisconsin, scott walker. governor, good to see you. >> good morning. >> also with us on set -- >> the packers are heading off to home field advantage. you can't get any better thin wisconsin. >> we'll talk about that in a second. >> and also with us, alex wagner. governor, you're facing a recall election, less than a year now, before you were brought into office, january 3rd of 2011, probably feels like a long time ago, i know you expressed some regret in the way

you handle putting your bill out last february, do you have any regrets about the content of that legislation at this point? >> well, before, when i look back 20/20 vision, looking backwards is always make clearer. i would have spent more time explaining what we were doing. the reason that we did this, a great example, a year ago, school districts were spending tens of millions of dollars more than they needed to, because they couldn't outbid their health insurance. a year ago, we had a abuses of overtime because we had for example a bus driver making $150,000 because of overtime, people heard more of the details of that up front, it would have made more sense. we have seen the last two weeks, property tax bills go out,

almost nearly district has seen their property taxes lower. my kids went back to public schools. they were the same or better. i think the reforms are doing well. >> you talked about the financial concessions, too aggressive to strip them or to attempt to strip them of their right to bargain collectively. >> collective bargaining is not an right, it's an entitlement. i saw it in local government where we tried to avoid massive layoffs that localmii??órçóñi the past had been forced to make. instead, we put the power back in the hand of the local taxpayers. lot of people forget but nationally federal employees don't have collectiveç bargaing for benefits and wages. they pay about 28% for their health insurance under president

obama on average. in comparison, i think what we offer is more generous. >> governor, we got sam stein of the huffington post with us with a question. >> if ending collective bargaining is such an obvious, smart policy change, they have argued if you talked about collective bargaining during your election, you wouldn't have been elected. second, if you ask as the recall process out of the ordinary, is it true that you got to power through a recall election? >> well, there's a recall before i took office as county executive, the individual ultimately involved in that resigned. well, i brought up -- i brought

attention to it. the recall was already under way. in that case, my predecessor literally took a scenario where they offered open-ended pensions for himself and to his cronies that still to this day cost taxpayers thousands of dollars. there was universal opposition. >> what about not putting collective bargaining in your gubernatorial campaign -- >> i talked about itç long before -- i talked about it long before i was governor. in fact, when i was a county executive. in anybody didn't see this coming have been asleep for the last eight years. our county government when i was head of it, we were expected to

the provide to the people of the community, that was true in towns and local governments across the state. i ran a tv ad talking about asking employees give a contribution for pension and health care. >> but that had nothing to do with the actual collective bargaining. >> that's not true at all. >> you're talking about pensions and entitlements. >> pension and health care contributions you can't get in every part of this state. there's no universal way to do that state booid. unless you make these sort of reforms. we have 124 school districts. 72 counties. no way you can guarantee every one of those jurisdictions could get those. empowering those local officials to put the best interest of the taxpayers first. >> michael steele.

>> governor, it's good to see you again. >> thank you, michael. >> you're getting a lot of grief for doing what a number of governors have had to do even here in new york with governor cuomo. looking at how they have to carry the burden that was passed and put into place long before( 70-some percent of the vote. how are you communicating differently to those voters when you were in heat of battle? have you sensed that the voters are beginning to appreciate the reforms that you have put in

place? i think you have been left out in the cold by the political establishment of the gop? that's another conversation. how are you managing to move this ball forward to do the people's business despite the recall effort? >> yeah, for us, certainly, those two key dates september 1st and last week when tax bills came out, when they saw their schools were in good shape, for the first time in more than six years, we have the property tax levies going down in the state. where a lot of folks are facing the same or lower income to get some relief from property taxes. we have shown testimonials. moms and dads. school teachers. school board members. small business owners, all of those people talking directly to

the people aboutç how the refos are working. an elementary schoolteacher said that there were would be fewer kids. in many school districts across the state have benefited them and despite other states massive layoffs, we avoided massive layoffs in the state of wisconsin. i have great faith in wisconsin. i believe god willing with the help of the voters again here in wisconsin, i'll have an opportunity to continue to put wisconsin out in the forefront of being a reformer just as we have been in the past. i think that will help the economy. >> alex. >> governor, good morning. as we tie this year up with a bow, one thing that stands out is the way the national conversation has changed from burngt cutting to income inequality, i wonder to what extent you think the conversation, the idea of income

inequality, for too long, we have tried to balance the budget, that's fueling this recall effort in wisconsin? >> there's a little bit of it. i think it's misguided in ternls of the attacks and recalls. we're standing up for the middle class in our state. the people i respect. i look at people in my state outside of government, on average, most of them, at best, have a match in terms of the retirement, whether it's a pension or 401(k), most of them are paying 25% for their health insurance premiums. so, i think for the çhard-workg taxpayers, the people in the state who want to continue to survive and prosper in the future, we put the power back in their hands. as michael knows, all too often working in government the expanse of government is paid on

the back of middle-class taxpayers. i see that their key to moving this state forward, their key to greater prosperity, the changes that we made benefits the middle class the most in our state. hopefully, we'll continue in the future. we put in place other policies that attract jobs. we took a year ago, our employees, just 10% thought that wisconsin was heading in the right direction, now 88% say that we're heading in the right direction. >> governor walker, five days away from the voting in iowa, which of the republican candidates do you believe gives you your party the best chance to beat president obama? >> i think, without giving you a

name, i think the candidate that can best the articulate the difference, two different philosophies at the federal level, certainly here at wisconsin, people who view in success in government, how many people can you sign up for benefits, versus those of us like myself who believeç the te success measurement of government is how many people you get off of the roles. to me that's the great contrast. my hope there are candidates i got a plan to get the people off of the government payrolls. >> which candidate best fits the description you just laid out? >> i think a number of them. >> just one. >> romney has private sector experience, governor perry has done that in texas.

gingrich has talked about it in the past. who can break through? i think will be largely dependent on the issue. >> we're down to three. let's go down to one. >> romney, perry or gingrich, which one of those three best exam mri fies your version of which way this country should move -- >> they each have a compelling argument. >> governor scott walker, thank you. >> governor walker, thanks for being us. >> oregon and wisconsin is a pretty good game. >> thank you, scott, we appreciate you.

>> alex, thank you. >> it was a beautiful 15 mint. for american, for me. >> alex, we'll be watching you at noon nowç with alex wagner. a great new show on msnbc. up next -- our "morning joe rewind" with rob lowe. we'll be right back. cuban ca jun raw seafood pizza parlor french fondue tex-mex fro-yo tapas puck chinese takeout taco truck free range chicken pancake stack baked alaska 5% cash back. right now, get 5% cash back at restaurants. it pays to discover. did you hear sam... ...got promoted to director? so 12 seconds ago. we should get him a present. thanks for the gift basket. you're welcome. you're welcome. did you see hr just sent out new... ...office rules? cause you're currently in violation of 6 of them.

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earlier this year on "morning joe" rob lowe joined us to explain why he wrote a memoir. here is the emmy-nominated actor in our "morning joe rewind." >> i had had these stories and inevitably i would be out to dinner with people or on a long weekend, they would turn me to go, dude, you have to write a book. once i figured out how to treat the people in my life who were well known, i didn't want to be the guy who trashs people, i wanted to deliver on some of the fun stories. once i found that entryway, i started writing. >> one story that you would tell people over and over again?

>> there's a lot of them. i mean, when i would talk about flying with the 9/11 hijackers. >> what? >> you got to tell that now. that's an incredible story. >> well, when we madeç the wes wing, we would shoot in washington about four times a year. the flight that went into the pentagon was the flight that i always chose the early flight to los angeles. i was on that flight with that crew 11 days before. and i sort of knew them. about a year and a half, after september 11th, i went to the mailbox and there was a letter from the attorney general's office of maryland, they were forwa forwarding an address from mouse tsai who wanted to depoe dispos.

>> following the death of osama bin laden you were one of those people who chose to go to times square, you got on top of the fire engine alongside some of america's finest, new york's finest, what was that experience like for you? >> i mean, new york suffered more than any city in the country and when that news came out, i just thought that it would be -- i wanted to share this moment in history. i'm not sure so much of a celebration but just a base -- an end of an era. i shook the hand of the first fireman i saw. there was a bittersweet but historic night. >> you know, when you tell stories over time, do you worry that they're not really true?

whenç i was writing my own memoir, i wondered a lot did it happen. i met joan and she said we still have the st. christopher's medal. >> when i went to write this, i got to make sure i'm not losing my mind, this happened to me? i called the attorney general of maryland. >> so, how personal did you get in this book? >> it's deeply personal. >> let me ask you this, tell me a little bit about your revolutire evolution as a man, growing up and evolving with incredible things happening to you, but also what i saw at williamstown to be more serious was a man

under fire, there were aggressive women just hounding you. from all sides. that may sound great. it actually looked like a nightmare and it looked very confusing. i remember, actually being with you a lot and watching this happen, women as young as 14, women in their 40s. and you're sitting there in this swirl, i'm not making any excuses for you, but how did that change you, how did you change and have you changed? >> it took a while for me to come to terms with it, because it's such a weird situation. >> one thing you're a 21-year-oldç guy. look, part of it is wonderful. and you take advantage of it and you have fun with it and it's all good. it's confusing because, you know, growing up in high school, i was like a theater nerd.

>> you were. >> and in those days it was pre-glee. so, in school, the people i liked, the cool girls ignored me for the cool guys who were athletes. overnight, i become famous and all of a sudden -- >> you're hot. >> but, wait, i'm still the same. a minute ago, nobody liked me. now, what does that mean? those sort of questions, that was the kind of stuff that i began to explore later on in my life when i got sober. and you know, there are no real answers to your question, it's just one of those things that you have to be there to appreciate >> it i had sympathy, i watched and marvel at the behavior of everyone around you and yours. it was really a difficult time. >> and yet i look back on it and

i wouldn't trade any of it for a second. >> peter and i weep for him. it must have been terrible. >> see, i'm looking at you, over your shoulder, he's going -- >> it's all vicariously. lot of guys who ran in thoseç days, the brat pack, the outsiders, what is that guy up to now, you're still here, parks and recreations is doing well. >> you know, the real answer is, part of it is i don't know. for me, i'm always trying to find something that extends me, that puts me out there where i have to sort of break through a barrier and writing stories that i only tell my friends was one of those things.

i had never written anything of substance. i never written a book, certainly, and you sort of put yourself out there for people to like, not like, get out of my comfort zone. i'm really comfortable getting out of my comfort zone. and sometimes that works for me and sometimes it doesn't. but, what it does do, it keeps you vital. and if you're vital, you're more likely to be relevant and being relevant is how you extend and stay. >> do you learn how quickly people sell out? going through an era like that. and also, when things turn bad, and you're responsible for your own actions, ultimately, you realize who your real friends are, don't you? >> you do. as you get older, you kind of -- your expectations, you have to keep fighting lowering expectations.

you have to keep trying to stay open to -- to experiences and as i get older, i feel like i need less and less in myç life. and that's the good news. but it can also keep you sort of closeted. you kind of fight against that, i think. >> interesting. >> rob lowe. back in may of this year on "morning joe." coming up -- breaks news on the economy. the latest news on the jobless claims, just out. we'll be back.

some news on unemployment claims. the news before the bell. brian, how is it looking. >> oila little higher. at 381,000.

we like to see numbers below 400,000 to bring it down 9%. the s&p and the nasdaq are in negative territory for the year. doing a hat lot of year-end stuff, willie, let's go to rock 'n roll, what do you think the top-grossing musical act was in 2011. >> bieber. >> no. he was overseas a lot. u2 was the top grossed. followed by taylor swift, kenny chessney, lady gaga and bon jovi. >> geezer rock has managed to stay relevant. >> they're on the cusp. >> they're on the edge. >> next year we get the beach boys and rolling stones 50thoy÷x anniversaries. if u2 geezers, you'll get the geezers next year.

just to recap the number, 381,000. that could tick down unemployment a little bit. brian, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.

♪ tomorrow on "morning joe" we take you through some of our

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time to tell you what we