>> it's pretty early out there. 3:00 in the morning. kim, put your clothes back on, get back down to the tables and win what you lost. how about one more? >> don in maryland, i'm on a strict time sensitive diet, and when you ask why my lipitor and fruit cup. >> we're now a trigger for medication. i love it. "morning joe" starts right now. . how does it affect you personally? >> how about the ideas that all men are created equal and the rights to happiness and liberty? >> are we saying that everyone should have the right to marry? >> yes. >> everyone? >> yes. >> okay. so anyone can marry anybody else? okay. so anybody can marry anybody else, so anybody can marry several people?

now, wait a minute, this is not -- we're not going to do this. >> -- for two men to have the same rights as a man and a woman. >> we're not talking about that. >> i'm going to give people one more chance and then we're going to move on. i'm going to ask you a question again. if it makes three people happy to get married, what -- based on what you just said, what makes that wrong and what you said right? >> that's irrelevant and -- >> it's not irrelevant. let me thank you all very, very much for being here and for your time and attention. thanks. >> and the spotlight's on rick santorum there. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, january 6th. with us onset, we have the chairman of deutsch incorporated, donny deutsch, we also have the president of

council on foreign relations richard haas, and mark haleprin on location. >> mark, we'll get to you in a second. donny, i've got to talk to you first. >> i was married to two women and i wasn't happy. >> so you're the -- i love it. it's so good to be back in our studio. >> 6:00 in the morning -- >> after this came out, there was a lot of -- oh, he got booed at this event and that event. and i sat there thinking, rick santorum knew exactly what he was doing. that -- i personally -- >> what was he doing? >> he was actually trying to tackle a difficult debate where he's on a very unpopular side. and he just stayed with it. as the "new york times" said, santorum could've moved on like every other candidate, but he wanted to engage in a back and forth. i think some people in the

republican base regardless of whether they agree with him on this issue or not, they're like, hey, the guy has a lot of fight in him. >> i've got to tell you as a democrat, as someone who could not disagree with him more on every issue, there's a human being up there. and you have to respect that. and what's interesting even watching him go at -- i forgot who the anchor was in there. he says at the end of the day, this is what i believe. i don't believe to impose it in the law. what i respect about him and i have not seen in any of the other candidates, there's a genuine human being with conviction. so i've got to give him points for that, at least that. and i do not think this guy's going away. i really do not. >> i don't either. and he's not my kind of conservative -- >> yeah. >> he is more of a big government conservative, he defers to the government too much, i think. the federal government, on social policy, and he wants an aggressive foreign policy internationally. and he's big believer in big

government republicanism. that said, there are a lot of republicans that will say, hey, he's human, he's a fighter, i like him. >> i'll put it in a nutshell for you. you know my friends who loved herman cain? >> they said he was going to be the guy. >> they love rick santorum now. >> well, that's kind of -- >> just saying. >> the bronx kiss of death. >> almost as bad as the st. bart's kiss of death. >> and as alex said, there's still people out there that just can't find themselves marrying mitt romney. >> there's a big group of people like that, and some of them will go to rick santorum. i'll tell you, he had great events yesterday. he went to a diner and was mobbed there. it's not just a likability, there's an electricity about him that no one else has right now the way he does. the romney people don't think he has enough time, though, to capitalize on it, enough

resources. mitt romney has not lifted a pinky to define him on negative terms. when someone's truly threatened mitt romney, romney's campaign has gone very aggressively after them. that hasn't happened yet. >> they still fear newt gingrich and to a lesser degree they fear to a lesser degree rick perry. those are two guys they fear if they take off, that could cause problems toward tampa. but santorum, you almost sense they want him to get stronger because he kills newt and he kills perry. >> i find they fear perry at this point more than anybody else, which is interesting -- >> wait a second? they still fear perry? >> they do, more than anybody else. >> the damage he can do. >> they fear him the most -- no, i think if you ask the high command there across the board, they would say we're very confident, we think we're going to do well in new hampshire, well going forward, but if there's one person who can still beat us if he has a second act, it's perry.

>> and of course, the reason why is, mika, as we get past iowa. you spend two years focused on iowa and an intense week focused on new hampshire, but then you move south. and guess which states are going to decide this nomination or at least the outline of it as you move south. you're going to have south carolina. and then florida and then you've got super tuesday with alabama, mississippi, georgia, louisiana, texas, oklahoma, all of these states that are custom made for a southern candidate. so that's why if rick perry can do well in south carolina, he could catch fire. i don't see that happening. >> he's still got money left. >> can i ask mark one question before we move on. >> hold on, more dollars than cents. go ahead. >> we started off so well today. we were on the same team. >> it was a joke. >> mark, quick question. >> you're the smart guy. >> you keep saying, everybody keeps saying, santorum doesn't

have the organization. in this world of internet where you raise $1 million overnight in super pac money where you can find $1 billion overnight, in where the world doesn't want organization. what does that mean? once and for all, explain to me why he can't go into south carolina and win given the things i just said? >> well, i don't think -- i think you're right, the organization is overrated in the age in which we live. although it still matters at least for a few points. even romney in south carolina doesn't have much of an organization compared to what we've seen in the past. i don't think that's his biggest problem. resources, getting well known, having the overall have to go up against a strong front-runner. i was talking to newt gingrich yesterday, and he made a good point. eventually, if one of these conservative romney alternatives is willing to stick with it, if it's true romney has a ceiling, but in a one-on-one race, gingrich suggested, any one of

these candidates could beat mitt romney. it would be great to see a series of polls in the southern states. who are you for santorum or romney? it's possible he could survive that and thrive there. the problem for all of them is if gingrich and paul and rick and both ricks stay in, romney never has to have that one-on-one challenge. >> let's get to where we're going next. and that is new hampshire with only four days to go until the voting in new hampshire, the republican presidential field is gearing up for two debates this weekend. the focus is likely to be on mitt romney as the latest suffolk university poll shows the former massachusetts governor carrying 41% support in the granite state. romney beats his closest competition ron paul by over 20 points. and coming off his strong finish in iowa, rick santorum jumps two points to third place with 8% support. right behind him, newt gingrich and jon huntsman at 7% each. but huntsman is getting a boost

heading into the weekend. the newspaper, the boston globe is putting their support behind the former utah governor saying he offers the republican party an opportunity to "renew itself." the endorsement focused on comparisons between huntsman and front-runner mitt romney saying "while romney proceeds cautiously, strategically trying to appease enough constituencies to get himself the nomination, huntsman has been bold. rather than merely sketch out policies, he articulates goals and ideas. he has stood up far more forcefully than romney than those in his party who reject evolution and the science behind global warming." >> let's go briefly to mark and then i want to move on to this defense story and go to richard here. but you know, there are a lot of states like, for instance, florida where if the newspapers endorse you, you start to get nervous. in my race, if newspapers

endorsed me, i threw those papers away. but if they attacked me, i would hold them up on the campaign trail. new hampshire is different. new hampshire is a state that where you had, mark, one editorial page after another endorse john mccain back in 2008. and it mattered. huntsman is getting all of those endorsements right now. he's going up on tv now, the super pacs are going up, do you see a late huntsman charge? >> he had a pretty big crowd last night at an event i was at in newport and proved as a candidate. but right now, i still don't see it. i think he's also going to be endorsed by "the nation" magazine and "huffington post." look, there's kind words for him in that editorial by "the globe." but his biggest problem, you talk to any republican from the other campaigns and they say he hasn't defined himself. what is he?

moderate and centrist? or a true conservative? he's proud of it, happy about it, but i think it further muddles the message. >> has he improved on the campaign trail? people who see him say early on he talked about like an ambassador. more recently, like a politician. but they still say he's unfocused on the campaign trail. he doesn't hammer home points. and by the way, these are the same criticisms i heard of rick santorum seven days ago. >> he's improved, but i don't think enough or as much as i thought he would. the funniest thing he did last night. talking about trying to improve -- he was talking about what we need to do about immigration and was listing the hard line positions he had. and he said one thing is when new people come to the united states, they need to learn our lingua franca. >> what? >> i don't know what he's

saying. >> are we talking peerly about expectations at this point in new hampshire? mitt romney's going to win and it's a question of how much he wins by. and for jon huntsman, he's not going to win, obviously, but he's got to sneak up in the top three. >> yeah, jon huntsman has to be in double digits for a lot of reasons. mainly so i have dan senor buying me steak. jon huntsman either gets 15%, 16%, 17% or it ends right there. >> but then on the other end of the spectrum, santorum's trying to cut into his lead -- >> if rick santorum gets double digits, it's a win. and for mitt romney, mitt really needs to be in the 40s, but even if he's in the mid to high 30s, he's okay. if for some reason santorum holds him below 30, mitt's in trouble. i don't think that's going to happen. i think it all goes to south carolina. >> i do too.

>> please, everybody be quiet -- >> next week i'm going to come -- >> can we call the republican national committee? because donny deutsch has a prediction. >> alex, we're going to -- >> this is big. goes to ronald reagan, here we go. >> mitt romney's going to drop about five points. he's going to go into the mid-30s. huntsman will jump to 15, all of a sudden he'll be a factor and santorum will jump to 17%, 18%. all of a sudden we'll be talking about those -- >> it's on videotape. >> two of the number -- >> we'll show it. >> can we get to the other big story of the day, please? i'd like to cover the president of the united states. >> boy, he's doing well. >> he is. on a number of levels. he finally got somebody to head up the consumer financial protection bureau. very good move. >> hold on, can i just say, though? >> thank god, people need protection. and the republicans would never let it happen so he did it himself. >> this is shocking to me.

talk radio people -- >> they don't let anything happen in washington, republicans. >> and it is true. no, this is true. this is as, i think, rush may have called it an unprecedented power grab or something. and it's true because, mika you know what? republicans have never done this. >> yeah. please. >> and if barack obama would only govern the way republicans have governed in the past because we have refused to make any recess appointments. >> that's right. in fact, the president before president obama only had three times as many at this time in his presidency. >> exactly. come on. >> let's talk about things that matter. let's talk about deficits. >> if you want someone who is going to take on wall street and big business, you do need someone heading up that department created by elizabeth warren who then was blocked by the republicans -- >> by barack obama who threw elizabeth warren under the bus. >> she running for senate, she'll have her day. >> and she will. can i say --

>> her day is coming. >> this is what i love about washington, d.c. there will come a time if she wins that barack obama needs her vote desperately, and elizabeth warren's going to be sitting there and barack obama's going to be sitting there and she's going to stare at him and look at him and she's going to say, you threw me under the bus -- >> he will find a way -- >> i can't wait for that day to come. and i love them both. they're both great people. can we go into this defense story? >> yeah. >> because richard's here. >> president obama's putting his mark on the american military that could change the way the united states engages in international conflicts for years to come. the president's ambitious new plan marks the largest shift in u.s. foreign policy in decades. the plan calls for an adjustment to america's two-war strategy. a greater emphasis on the asia-pacific, and a smaller force to combat terrorism. the plan also calls for the defense department to make more than $450 billion in cuts over the next ten years, likely coming from military salaries,

benefits, and select we systems. president obama and defense secretary leon panetta defended the historic change of military strategy yesterday at the pentagon. >> now we're turning the page on a decade of war. this success has brought our nation once more to a moment of transition. our military will be leaner, but the world must know the united states is going to maintain our military's superiority with armed forces that are agile, flexible, and ready for the full range of contingencies and threats. >> it really does represent an historic shift to the future. and it recognizes that this country is at a strategic turning point after a decade of war and after a large increase in defense spending. all of this comes at a time when america confronts a very serious

deficit and debt problem here at home. a problem which is itself a national security risk that is squeezing both the defense and domestic budgets. >> richard, americans are distracted right now by the elections and more importantly by the alabama/lsu game coming up monday night. less than 100 hours there. but while we're distracted by the more important things, talk about the historic significance of these cuts and why this is actually something that we're going to be living with for quite some time. >> this is actually important. this is the beginning and articulation of the post iraq, post afghanistan strategy. we're not going to be fighting these enormous land wars in the middle east. the only large land war anyone can imagine anymore is on the korean peninsula. other than that, probably looking at these very discreet counterterrorism sort of things, possibly air and naval type of

confrontation with iran. but this is the beginning of the new phase of american defense policy, more oriented toward asia-pacific. that's where history's going to happen in the 21st century. that's where the real power is. we're looking to save some dollars, about an 8% cut in the core defense budget. so this is actually a big statement by the administration. and it's gutsy. this is an articulation of new priorities that's going to make some people unhappy, but it's a big deal. >> this is being described as a turning of the page toward china and also to iran. what does it mean practically to turn the page? what are we going to do vis-a-vis china? >> you're not going to reduce your presence in the asia pacific. emphasis on naval and air forces, which is what you want in that area of the world. it's a hedging strategy. we're not sure what china's going to do with their power. no more iraqs and afghanistans,

and that you mean 100,000 plus. dealing with the straits of hormuz, some sort of problem like that with iran. these are the two parts of the world that matter, asia-pacific, the middle east -- >> richard, do we think that after a decade of distractions we are going to start focusing on enemy number one? and i don't use the word enemy. >> we'll be careful. >> no, no, no, no -- i can call iran our enemy. iran is our enemy and they have been our enemy since 1979. they have been the epicenter of terror since 1979. they are a clear and present danger to the united states of america, to israel, to the middle east, to our allies. and all you have to do is look at what pakistan does to u.s. foreign policy leaders day in and day out.

and multiply that by 100 fold when iran gets the bomb to see what dangers lie ahead. how do we check iran? >> it actually doesn't quite mean that. it means that the long-term potential adversary, potential, is china. that's why the emphasis on the asia pacific. it means the real problem, the enemy if you will is our economic problems. the cuts in defense, that's significant. iran, too soon to say, yet we're going to war with them. what you're beginning to see is all the contingency planning and all the rest. right now iran's bark is worse than its bite. i don't think they're going to close the strait of hormuz. >> of course not. but when you say their bark is worse than their bite, you're not suggesting like ron paul that they're not trying to -- are you a ron paul supporter? do you have -- >> no, iran -- iran is enriching uranium, now up to a level of 20%, not yet up to 90%. iran is not yet at the point. we and the israelis have time to

turn it with economic sanctions. >> pakistan, when we woke up the morning after and read in the "washington post," i was in congress at the time, that pakistan had a nuclear bomb, did we see that coming? >> well, yeah, because for years we knew -- we had to certify every year that pakistan was not developing -- >> obviously china helped them get there quickly. >> and others. >> pakistan at the time was seen to some extent as a friend. the united states was somewhat tolerant of it. obviously in the case of iran, given their support for terrorism and the rest, there's zero tolerance. we still have time, and i think right now the sanctions are hammering the iranian economy. we're right to prepare and think about military options. it's premature to go that way, but right now the iranians are in serious pain. >> the good news is, finally the europeans are getting serious about this. stepping forward with tough sanctions. in the past, it's been harder to pull them along. i think europe understands if

iran gets a nuclear we, then nuclear proliferation across the middle east, which amy carter warned us about in 1979 sweeps across the globe. >> i'm going to get one more story -- >> i'm sorry. but it's the truth. >> there is more good news pertaining to the current administration as much as you don't want to hear it. i'm sorry. it hurts once in a while. the labor department is expected to deliver some good news today when they release their december jobs report showing an increase in manufacturing jobs. >> usa. >> for two consecutive years. we'll get to that more -- >> hold on, i've got to stop you and filibuster again. >> we have not seen job growth since 1997, keep it in mind. things are slowly recovering. >> this is great news. we've been losing manufacturing jobs over the years and by the way, just so you know, you obviously don't follow my twitter feed. >> yes, right. >> when this news came out yesterday, i tweeted, great news moving forward.

the united states is slowly getting some traction on manufacturing jobs, we're far below the 1979 level when we were at our peak, but i think we can win in manufacturing. >> great. >> i think we can move forward. don't you, richard? >> in select areas. high-tech areas where we have comparative advantages. for example, where our trade has been growing with countries like china. but the real area of growth economically will probably be less manufacturing, more services. that's where the strength of the american economy is. >> obama, what he did with the military is a map for the economy. cut the budget and focused where the action is. technology and where the problem is. >> and he looked very presidential compared to the -- >> coming up, republican presidential candidate buddy roemer will join us. also mike murphy and eugene robinson will break down the nfl playoffs with peter king. but first, let's go to bill karins. not sure why.

hi, bill. >> wow. >> you're so mean. >> i know we haven't had a lot of snow lately, mika, i'm still going to stay here just in case. good morning, everyone. one of the warmest january days ever yesterday in the midwest and all that mild air is going to slowly head to the east coast. can you believe it was 6'4" 4 i montana? and that mild air is heading to the east coast this coming weekend. today, 60 in d.c., do the lunch outdoors, 52 in new york. the southeast, you're dry today, but as we go throughout our weekend, we are going to introduce some clouds and showers, new orleans, atlanta, down along the coastline of texas too. but temperatures are staying mild around the country. no signs of any snow still and no signs of any arctic outbreaks. little ridiculous. now we're heading into the middle of january by the time winter's going to arrive. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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27 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we're going to begin -- you can stop talking now. you good? >> yeah. >> hey, what did rick perry say about iowa? say they were quirky folks out there? >> yeah. >> loosy goosy and then said they're quirky. i heemean, come on. you've been licking their palms for a year, spending $500,000 per vote -- >> $500 -- >> no, he called them quirky. >> the quad city times -- the win is being questioned. an iowa vote counter discovered romney's votes may have been overcounted.

here's what rick santorum had to say when asked about a possible discrepancy. >> here's what i know. having talked to the chairman of -- matt stron, the chairman of the republican party of iowa that all of these counties are going to be reporting in, they're going to be certifying them, that there was one county where there was a 20-vote mistake in my favor, but there was a 21-vote mistake in romney's favor. it netted out to a one-vote difference. that doesn't really matter to me. this was a tie. >> yep. and "boston globe" is saying that joe kennedy iii is considering a possible bid for barney frank's seat. the 31-year-old grandson of robert kennedy says he's creating an exploratory committee. i saw him yesterday for the first time -- >> yeah? >> that is andrew scarborough's hair. is that not andrew scarborough? >> looks like him.

>> that's my son. >> in "parade" magazine, daniel radcliffe talks about life after harry potter. and more than 40 names on the ballot. "parade" focuses on some of the most bizarre, including one man campaigning on zombie preparedness. and the federal funding of time travel research. >> wow. all right. you know, willie, speaking of "harry potter," it's amazing the billions that brought in, not only through the books but the movies. they were all top of the pops. >> and theme parks too. they built a harry potter ride at universal theme parks and the business of the theme parks went through the roof. j. j.k.rowling. >> speaking of harry potter. >> good morning. >> oh, he likes to dress in his wizard outfit off the air. >> i used to have a little

lightning bolt right here, but i got rid of it. >> probably a good idea. you guys are writing your lead story this morning, mitt romney's weekend from hell -- week from hell -- >> what? >> two debates this weekend, saturday, sunday, just 16 hours apart by the way. and when you look at the debates that happened so far, mitt romney for front runners not coming under the kind of scrutiny you'd expect. but this will be a huge difference at these two debates. the field is now from eight to six, and second of all, rick santorum now one of the front runners. he doesn't get a got more time than he usually does. and he's never been afraid of really going after anybody at this debate. newt gingrich has a big incentive to go after mitt romney, he's obviously a little bit sore as you saw from the iowa speech. in addition, i think by going negative or as he would -- he wouldn't call it negative, but by going after romney, probably one of his best ways to get back in this race. and i think it was sam stein said on your program that the

huntsman campaign is praying to get a podium spot next to romney so huntsman can go after romney. i think for all of these reasons, mitt romney's going to have a difficult time at these debates. and the question is, will he get testy as he's known to do. >> mark haleprin, in the end, it all comes down to math and these moderates are going to vote for mitt romney. and if you want to get from 8% to 11% or 11% to 15%, you are fighting for the same conservative votes in the same pot. that's -- people haven't been avoiding mitt romney because they're scared of him or because they like him, they've been avoiding him because they know they're not going to get his votes. how is that going to change this weekend? >> sets up very well for mitt romney. as you say they all want in theory, they recognize they must go after mitt romney. now or never. but they're still competing with each other to be the romney alternative. you saw yesterday, newt gingrich was asked by a voter, how do you

compare yourself to rick santorum? and he said i love rick, but really he's more of a junior partner. that kind of line -- that kind of line, and then santorum was asked about it at a later event and sniped back about it. they're going to have to go after romney. and i'll bet you $10,000 that romney's prepared for these attacks. they've gamed them out -- if he loses his cool, i'll be stunned. if he doesn't lose his cool, he probably can't lose the debate -- >> mark, betting $10,000 is an unpopulist thing to do, i want to point out. >> what did he tell you about how romney loses? >> well, the only way as he sees it, but he's pretty confident, as i said earlier, a one-on-one contest. if somebody could get him one-on-one. look at what happened with barack obama and hillary clinton four years ago when they were one-on-one in west virginia, for instance. hillary clinton won overwhelmingly. there are places, and joe, you mentioned the southern states

earlier. there are places where if romney's one-on-one in the race, it does get more interesting. but no one expects any dropouts before then, except for perhaps jon huntsman if he doesn't perform up to the market, the math is very good for mitt romney. he has to have, as you suggested, someone challenge him for the more centrist part of the party and right now they're not. they're all challenging in their own pool. >> and mark, we'll ask you -- from what you've heard from team romney, what do they need to do? and what do they not want to happen? >> they've probably got to be north of 38% to have no problem at all in the expectations game. below that will depend on where everybody sits. right now, they don't see santorum having enough time to surge into the 20s or the mid -- at least the mid-20s. they see paul as pretty stable where he is. and so that means unless we see an absolute collapse from huntsman and gingrich with the

vote going to santorum, they'll probably at least survive with the expectations. and i think they'd say more likely than just survive, unless he makes a mistake in the big debates, he'll thrive and leave with a win. >> what does potter think? >> harry potter over here. i think one thing you hear so much that the gop establishment -- or the gop elites isn't really behind mitt romney. but when we hear this talk about someone else beating mitt romney, we saw john mccain a couple of days ago endorsing mitt romney, so many folks in that elite are behind mitt romney now. for somebody else to kind of gain in on the ground mitt romney's occupied a the this point, it's hard to conceive that happening. >> patrick gavin, a weekend from hell. >> no, let's focus on the weekend. >> focus on the weekend. >> patrick, thanks so much. still ahead, david gregory

who is preparing for sunday's republican debate on "meet the press." also, penn state moves on, a couple of months after the allegations that led to the firing of joe paterno. the litany lie yours are looking at a new head coach. sports is next.

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time for a little sports. >> oh, good. >> get some predictions around the table. >> get it over with. >> this weekend, we've got the lions playing -- >> that's a great one -- >> what do you like there, mika? >> lions. >> really? >> do you really? >> she likes the logo. >> pretty blue logo. >> that's a gutsy call. >> okay. >> bottom line is, people may have something to cheer about on saturday night. something monday night. saints are going to win that one, right? >> i think saints are the best team in the nfl, better than packers. >> i love detroit, but they're looking good. >> falcons at giants, that one is on sunday afternoon. >> giants. >> we're partisans -- >> giants are peaking at the right time. >> beating the falcons by a country mile. >> let's make a real bet. let's make a real bet. let's give mika $20. >> he always has $20 in his

pocket. >> it's going to be afc. >> cincinnati at houston, if you're watching that one. >> steelers, broncos, tim tebow. >> tebow time, baby. >> does tebow have any chance, willie, there? >> i don't think so. they're basically a .500 team, lucky to be there, i think the steelers will blow them out. we'll see, though. peter king and mike florio will be here. >> so penn state is moving on. >> yeah, moving on. hired new england patriots offensive coordinator bill o'brien to be the next head football coach. the move will be made official, we're told, tomorrow. o'brien will finish the season with the patriots who are the number one seed before he moves on to his new job. o'brien inheriting a program in disarray after the sexual abuse scandal involving former assistant coach jerry sandusky

blew open last fall and paterno was fired on november 9th. this marks the first time -- >> looks like a calm guy. >> this will be the first time in 60 years -- o'brien's best known for blowing up at tom brady on the sidelines. they shout at each other. maybe the first guy to scream at tom brady in public. >> and this is, i guess, he was going to get fired and maybe he had nowhere else to go so he went to -- >> well, with that offense, i don't think he was going to be fired. they're doing well this year. but they got blown out in their bowl game against houston. there was a fight in december where their starting quarterback was knocked out cold in the locker room, didn't play because of it. they're a complete mess at penn state, they need someone to put on the brakes -- >> they need to shut the program down for a year. and unfortunately, there aren't any grown-ups in happy valley to do that. no grown-ups. it's disgusting. and if the ncaa threatens to shut down a program because of, you know, a couple of dollars

here and there, why don't they shut down a program because of -- how come they don't shut down a program for a year for the sake of the university? >> there's going to be an investigation, a trial, testimony -- >> can we please go back to the $20 for the giants/falcons. there's a lot of -- put it down. >> we'll be right back with mika's must-read opinion pages. i'm robert shapiro. over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. at legalzoom we'll help you incorporate your business,

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46 past the hour. time now for the must-read opinion pages as we take a live look at capitol hill as the sun just about to come up over washington. we'll start with the manchester union leader. iowa lesson for new hampshire is back strongest candidate. the lesson from iowa, conservative republicans and like-minded independents in new hampshire and elsewhere had

better rally around one of their strongest candidates or face the very real prospect of having barack obama walk all over former massachusetts governor romney. the last squishy moderate republican to come to new hampshire claiming to have momentum from iowa was george h.w. bush. he and his mainstream supporters made fun of ronald reagan as too old and too conservative. reagan beat bush, but he might have lost had new hampshire conservatives not coalesced around him instead of splitting their support among several candidates. this time they need to get behind former house speaker newt gingrich. >> and joe mcquade, by the way, i'm excited about this. he's going to be onset with us on monday. and mark haleprin. >> that seems to break it up even more in my opinion. >> very powerful guy when it comes to republican primaries. do you think voters -- do you sense voters are going to follow his lead here? and get behind newt gingrich? >> well, joe, is a loyal guy, he

endorsed gingrich when gingrich was riding high. i think people forget in writing off gingrich the fact that he's been the star of the debate so far. this is a trickier challenge in the two debates coming up this weekend. but i think the combination of the "union leader" and a debate performance and gingrich on the air with tv ads. let's see where he can get. it's a real challenge, though. as we've said, ron paul's got his piece, romney has his piece, and santorum has the momentum now. and gingrich needs a lot to fall in place. >> as we swing south -- and i would even say what happens in the debates on sunday night is more important for south carolina and florida than it is for what's coming up two days later in new hampshire because those are two states that newt gingrich could still win outright. >> joe, there hadn't been any polling in the southern state since gingrich's collapse. "time" cnn has a poll coming out

at noon today. it's possible that gingrich's appeal in the south is sustained even as he took the big hit in iowa and something of a hit in new hampshire. if he's still holding on strong there, that can have kind of a first in the nation reverb effect back here if voters see him as viable. >> you're going to see different debates this weekend for the first time. this is the first time santorum is going to get a real voice in the debate. and i think that's going to really, really shake the tone of it. you've never seen santorum in the debates before. now they have to give him his platform. >> he's been in the debate. >> but he gets 90 seconds. >> but he's done a very good job. here's something about santorum, he's not herman cain and one of the other candidates that have gone up and come down. this is a guy that has worked hard, studied, done it over the past 15 or 20 years, he knows what he's talking about. you can disagree with him or agree with him, but he's going to hold his own in the debate.

>> there's this talk of a pact between gingrich and santorum. gingrich speaks of aligning himself with santorum against romney. for newt's campaign, this makes absolutely no strategic sense except that gingrich is after vengeance not victory. what a lineup. santorum and gingrich go after romney whose unspoken ally is paul who needs to fight off santorum to emerge as leader of a movement demanding respect, attention, and concessions. and jon huntsman goes after everybody. is this any way to pick a president? absolutely, and it's produced after just one contest and admirally worthy conservative alternative to romney. >> the conservatives divide the vote. romney ends up winning with the clear plurality. and this talk of a pact is that just that. people aren't ready to give up and throw their support. i think the most likely scenario

is the relative conservatives divide the vote and romney comes out on top. >> and this leads up to barack obama gets reelected. it's very interesting to watch the contrast between him looking presidential, smart, focused move, vis-a-vis the military and you have this ship of fools going on. and you're going to see -- >> come on. >> no, good numbers continue to happen. >> what do you mean ship of fools? is romney a fool? >> it's an expression. >> is huntsman a fool? >> it's an expression. >> it's a bad expression. >> boys -- >> ship of -- >> ship of -- >> silly guys. >> you know i don't have mansions. >> your yachts -- >> would you say that barack obama looked very presidential versus this ship of characters? >> well, i think the president's in a good position while the other side's shooting at themselves. >> they're not really shooting themselves, just using an expression. >> there's nothing that

americans -- and if romney wins eight votes or 80 votes, if he wins south carolina, that train just starts rolling. and suddenly these conservatives start moving his direction. up next, willie's news you can't use. we'll be right back. gives you a 50 percent annual bonus. so you earn 50 percent more cash. if you're not satisfied with 50% more cash, send it back! i'll be right here, waiting for it. who wouldn't want more cash? [ insects chirping ] i'll take it. i'll make it rain up in here. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? sorry i'll clean this up. shouldn't have made it rain. aflac... and major medical? major medical, boyyyy! [ beatboxing ] ♪ i help pay the doctor

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oh, is it time? >> yes, it is. >> it's time for the news you

can't use. you remember the movie "anchorman"? >> it's my ring tone. >> are you just looking at things in the office and saying you love them? >> i love lamp. >> do you really love the lamp or are you just saying it because you saw it? >> i love lamp. i love lamp. >> so brick loves lamp. that could never happen in real life. it's too ridiculous. >> the other big joke is, you know, they were all clowns. will ferrell would read whatever you put in the teleprompter. >> let's take you to the meteorologist there fell victim to a prank with his friends. >> oh, dear. >> but, people who have cats during childhood were not as likely to develop an allergy no matter where the cat curled up. >> so you became immune to it. >> exactly. >> in other news, i love lamp. there you go.

>> oh, my god, he totally fell for it. >> you got me. >> all right. that's a little joke. in other -- >> if you've seen "anchorman." >> he will read anything in the teleprompter. >> in other news, i love lamp. >> combination of rick tamblin and ron 'burghdy. >> i want to end with the story about puppies. still ahead, presidential candidate buddy roemer and ezra klein. ♪

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we don't need a jesus candidate, we need an economic candidate. and my answer to that was we always need a jesus candidate. someone who believes in this, right? now, i don't mean that in saying we need a jesus candidate, someone who is a christian, but we need someone who believes in something more than themselves. some higher power, some god, and not -- and not just the economy. >> welcome back to "morning joe." a wonderful shot of new york

city. it is so beautiful as we zoom in. and as you look in, i've got to say, donny deutsch knows this, i hate when politicians pander to voters. and as you look at new york city, it is so obvious, donny deutsch, that rick santorum was pandering to the upper west side. >> no -- >> he got you there, didn't he? >> and he has finally put his horns in and he's pulling you in. that gasp you just heard was from the upper west side. >> on the upper east side, and the buzz was rick santorum. there was murmurs, it was rick, rick, rick. all lining up for rick santorum. >> you know, where you're going next weekend to hand out buttons -- >> zebars, 88th and broadway. >> do that again. >> they already have signs up. >> welcome back, everyone.

>> it's almost egregious. >> as you can see donny deutsch is still with us along with richard haas, also mark haleprin in manchester, new hampshire. and joining us from washington, columnist from the "washington post," ezra klein joining the conversation. good to see you. >> good morning. >> good to have all i don't have you guys here. voters in new hampshire are not voters in iowa, but rick santorum is going to -- he's going to say what he believes. he's not poll tested, he's not market driven. and i just wonder whether that actually -- let's just say rowing against the tide whether there's some voters in new hampshire and beyond that don't like that. >> well, let's -- you know, we showed earlier that confrontation he had on gay marriage. he had two other events yesterday that were quite good. a couple of town hall meetings, one that had north of 750 people, another one with a lot

of press but a lot of people, and he gave long, classic new hampshire answers. maybe at times too long kind of the way president obama did when he was a candidate. but these are the kind of events a lot of people up here really appreciate. mitt romney takes questions and the other candidates, newt gingrich, but -- and jon huntsman. but santorum's answers were in the new hampshire mode. very long and thoughtful, policy orie oriented, and at one point he did mention, he said, i love it here, but i wish i could be up at barney green grass. >> every reference -- >> no upper west side references. but he is -- you know, it's also possible he's playing for south carolina too. but you talk about 750 people showing up for the santorum town hall meeting. boy, that's pretty darn good. >> he is the excitement candidate now. and look, the press is a big part of this process. i saw a gingrich event

yesterday, i saw a huntsman event. there were national reporters at all of them. but a huge crowd of national and regional and new hampshire media is with santorum. he's the exciting candidate. that builds momentum on its own. it helps build the big crowds. he's got something going. as i said, the romney people believe he doesn't have enough time to grow in a way that would make it possible to get into the 20s and threaten him. >> our good friend pat buchanan always says, if you win iowa, that's worth $50 million in free media, if you win new hampshire, that's worth another $50 million in free media, and together that can create a fire storm. and i think we're seeing it here. >> yeah, it's called share a voice. the percentage of the voice you're getting after all the media. it's almost a -- people said, oh, he only had a two-point bump coming out of iowa. that's before all this -- think of the percentage of minutes today talking on santorum versus the past.

it's almost a guarantee he's going to see a huge bump in the polls and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. so yes, it's happening. it's happening. >> well -- >> you know -- >> go ahead, mark. >> sorry, i was going to say, you showed santorum before saying it was a tie, what's the big deal whether i won or not? i totally disagree. if he would've won by a single vote, more of that earned media would have been a bigger slingshot out of iowa. there is a bit of an unfairness in the sense of we don't really know who won iowa. >> newt gingrich continues to make good on his promise to hammer mitt romney bashing the front runner at multiple new hampshire events yesterday. take a listen. >> i don't believe a massachusetts moderate is in a very good position to debate barack obama. when you start to describe a massachusetts moderate and you remind people of his record and suddenly they go, oh, yeah, he's not a conservative, it's a joke for him to call himself a

conservative. it's a saturday night live skit. as governor he appointed liberal judges to appease the democrats, as governor, he raised taxes. as governor he put planned parenthood in romney care. eventually you'll get down to one conservative in governor romney. and he'll continue to be at 25%. if he wins at 25%, this will be the weakest front runner in history. >> after vowing to stay positive in his campaign advertising, gingrich released this ad yesterday in new hampshire and south carolina. >> romney's economic plan timid, parts of it virtually identical to obama's failed policy. timid won't create jobs and timid certainly won't defeat barack obama. newt gingrich's bold leadership balanced the budget, reformed welfare, helped create millions of new jobs. the gingrich jobs plan, a powerful plan for growing our economy and creating jobs. rebuilding the america we love with bold conservative

leadership. >> i'm newt gingrich, and i approve this message. >> certainly worked against him in iowa. did you -- when you were campaigning, was this a tactic you considered? or did you stay positive all the way through? >> i stayed positive through the primary, and nobody thought i was going to win, so i didn't get negative ads. the final week they figured out i was coming from nowhere to win and then a barrage of negative ads went against me outrageous and kept going day in and day out. and everyone said stay positive, joe, stay positive. and i did, but i saw my numbers slipping, slipping. i still won by eight points in the primary. but after that, i said i'm going to stay positive until you launch your first negative attack against me and then i'm going to kick you in the face and i'm going to keep kicking you until you can't keep up and -- and i went on and on and i wasn't yelling. and i said, i want you to know -- >> and it works. >> if you attack me, i'm going to take you down and destroy you.

and guess what? he stayed positive. newt gingrich, ezra klein, took unprecedented attacks because of these super pacs, because of citizens united, which he -- >> because there was a lot of material. >> there's a lot of material about every candidate -- >> come on. >> the reason negative ads work -- >> there's a lot of material, but newt gingrich is newt gingrich. >> newt gingrich is finally pushing back regardless of my personal feelings about newt, it makes logical sense, doesn't it, ezra? >> sure makes sense, but i don't know how much sense it makes for newt at this point. he's moved his campaign from an actual campaign for the presidency into a kamikaze mission, which might be great news for rick santorum. the funny thing about newt gingrich and mitt romney is they share all the exact same ideological -- they both supported a plan with an individual mandate, they've both supported -- gingrich more so -- a cap and trade plan for carbon,

plans that would in some ways raise taxes, although newt gingrich has had very big rebellions against that part of the republican party. mitt romney has been in some ways a more understandably ideologically chameleon character because he was in massachusetts. newt gingrich wasn't. he was just wandering around in the sort of wilderness supporting things that mitt romney was supporting. it's funny because gingrich is one of the candidates in the race who seems least like he's in a real position to argue that mitt romney is not a reliable conservative. >> and you know, the thing is, the other thing talking about campaigns and ads, the number one rule is contrast. you find out how you're different from your opponent, donny deutsch. and it's all about contrast. and ezra's exactly right. newt can't go after mitt on romney care because he supported the individual mandate. newt can't go after mitt on global warming -- that's newt's biggest problem right now with

going negative. there's not enough space between them. >> and he's also not new and fresh and he's not exciting for us to cover. and the reason also negative ads work whether we like them or not because they're fact-based. even if they're lies, you take away facts from a negative ad, it's very hard in a positive ad to give real facts most of the time. so the reason negative ads work is not because we like negative ads. a consumer is able to take facts away whether they're true or false much easier than a positive ad. that's why it's always going to be here. >> what's your impression about what the candidates are campaigning for? i hear them talking to voters in south carolina a little bit. i hear them talking to voters in florida. in fact, mitt romney was in south carolina yesterday. is there a sense that this is just kind of a quick whistle stop on the tour that really south carolina's where the action is? >> well, you're right in the sense that i don't think anybody believes mitt romney can lose this primary mathematically.

but they must damage him here. if he comes out of here stronger than he did out of iowa, i think at least some of them realize he's got a chance to win south carolina. but they're all focused on performing -- overperforming expectations here. and they're hoping that their rivals will get at and they'll get a shot at romney in florida and after that. i think they may be misjudging what will happen if romney's able to win the first four contests. that will whittle the field down to one rather than down to the two plus ron paul that the rest of them are expecting or hoping for. >> go ahead, ezra. >> i want to make a point on the santorum/romney contrast. that's an interesting one. spent some time looking at their plans, and there's a weird thing i don't think people picked up on where santorum has this kind of blue collar credibility that mitt romney doesn't. and he's using that really effectively in new hampshire. but his plan is actually much more tilted toward upper income

folks and romney's is, if you look at the analysis of their tax plans, romney's is much better. a much bigger upper income tax cut, much sharper cuts to government spending, privatizes medicare, raises eligibility age on social security. those may or may not be good policies, but in terms of the type of blue collar distinction being drawn. in a funny way, mitt romney has a policy platform looks much more like what you would expect from rick santorum's message he'd be the one pushing. >> let's take two other items. and that is fascinating. you look at mitt romney that's actually talking about giving some tax breaks when it comes to capital gains, people making $200,000 and lower. ezra's got that, it's a fascinating contrast when you compare image with reality. let's talk really quickly about two other issues. i want to talk about a controversial nomination in a minute. but first, richard, let's talk

about some controversial pentagon cuts, controversial in the fact that republicans on capitol hill don't like it and presidential candidates don't. i think you agree with me, we've got to pull back on pentagon spending. are they doing it wisely at the white house? >> i think it is a pretty smart cut. it strategically makes sense. you can continue to focus on the middle east, but not in the same way we did with iraq and afghanistan. much greater emphasis on asia and pacific hedging on china's rise. but they're going to be attacked by the candidates -- also the question of whether they can steer this through the congress. this is simply the administration proposal. and the question is whether the republicans in congress will support this or whether they will, for example, resist cutting the troop levels for the army and the marine corps. cutting back things like the f-35. this is just the beginning of the political process on this. >> i've got to say, one of the things that discourages me about these cuts. we need cuts, they're going after benefits and salaries for the men and women -- >> okay.

really quick. that's -- yep. >> when i met recently with the senior officials, the biggest problem with the pentagon budget going forward they're worried about is health care costs. it's just like the civilian side. it is crowding out everything else. they have got to get military health care costs under control. >> then don't promise 18-year-old kids when -- you're going to take them over to foreign wars that you're going to give them health care benefits. you can't take that away from them. and also, don't fight ten years worth of wars that are going to stay with us for 50 years. >> that's part of what you're hearing now. anyone who wants to again do a large land war needs his head examined. we're moving into a much lighter footprint. no more -- >> you make a promise, you need to keep the promise. >> another big move by president obama happened over the past few days nominating richard cordray to the head of the consumer financial protection bureau. i want to go to ezra on this. >> this is shocking because

republicans have never had recess appointments before. >> they did three times the number in past administrations than this president has. and this was, quite frankly, the only way to get this done to give consumers the protection they need in a bureau that was created by elizabeth warren and then she was pushed out by republicans and didn't even get to the point where she could be nominated by the president. getting in the way of anything and everything the president has been trying to do. don't you think, ezra -- >> are you going to let him answer -- >> really, you're going to ask me that question? >> oh! >> oh! >> boom. >> real talk on "morning joe." >> this puts cordray in position for two years, doesn't that resinate with the president's message as he works toward reelection? >> sure, one of the big plans here, they're going to make financial reform a major part of the campaign against romney. mitt romney's a tough guy, he's going to have troubles with that part of the message.

he recess appointed four people. cordray and three people to the national labor relations board. that's out of 202 possible he could've made. and those two institutions, if they didn't get people on them, they would have died due to things related to how they're created in legislation. national labor relations board couldn't have made binding rulings again, cfpb wouldn't have its own power. the argument the administration is making is not just trying to get over the republican obstruction, that they are obstructing to nullify agencies from becoming into law. and that's a much more dangerous precedent to allow the republicans to set. he could've done that too and he hasn't. they're trying to make this a narrower case even than it would frankly seem to me it would be justified. i don't see a reason they shouldn't recess appoint a chief person to fannie mae and freddie mac. >> donny, this does happen all the time. i've been joking about nobody

does this, everybody does it. in fact, this president has shown -- and the reason i'm bringing this up is -- again, this is where ideology and dogma makes people look stupid. they come out and say this president is actually -- it's one of the few areas where he's shown a little more restraint than past -- >> i think the biggest news is it was a recess appointment because he's showing his mojo. he's saying -- i think it was a smart political move -- i don't think he has to defend himself. it's a president who is feeling his oats, sticking his chest out. and the one issue i've had with him is he doesn't show that testostero testosterone. >> the republicans don't have a very good retort with this. they can't find anything wrong with cordray. >> testosterone? >> yeah, in relationship with the president -- >> what's wrong with you? >> what's wrong with me? >> what did you say to joe when he was criticizing your questioning, your interviewing skills? >> i think he felt my question

was long-winded, which was really the pot calling the kettle black. >> yeah, i was surprised. would you say that was a jab or more of a left cross? >> ezra, i don't know why these liberals are so hate-filled ezra. it makes me sad. as we move forward, ezra, tell me, what do you see happening at the white house as they move forward toward the 2012 election? do you think they're going to hammer on -- you think the consumer protection side of it? where do they see the other vulnerabilities for mitt romney? >> two that are big, one is the financial stuff. he was head of bain capital, looks like a finance guy, won't release his tax returns. so they'd like to put that front and center. also raising a lot of money from wall street. the other is congress. this congress is less popular and has done less than the 1948 do-nothing congress that harry truman ran against. what their big plan is now is create a ton of executive

actions that are going to infuriate republicans. and then romney's going to be sitting there tied to the congressional republicans and the obama campaign can run against both of them simultaneously. >> ezra klein, thank you very much. >> thank you, ezra. by the way, speaking of running against republican congress. >> yes? >> i love that quote that -- you probably didn't see it because you were in the south of france. >> right. >> but that poll number that showed that hugo chavez was as popular as the united states congress. >> and paris hilton, more popular. >> in fact, the president -- >> that could be a bright spot of 2012. hugo chavez could disappear from the scene and that would be good for just about everybody. >> well, that's not really great the state of congress, but it is great for the president's reelection campaign -- >> and paris hilton. coming up, we're going to bring in buddy roemer who says on twitter, that's it, i'm

buying a sweater ves vest #itworkedforsantorum. david gregory and peter alexander. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar. the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now.

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did you ever wonder what the candidates' new year's resolutions are? >> this coming year i will endeavor to say thank you more often. >> make sure that when people come to hear me that i deliver a proper message and do a better job each time i do it. >> to work very, very hard and win the iowa caucus, win the new hampshire primary, then the south carolina primary, then go on to win the florida primary. my resolution is to win primaries next year. >> all right. 24 past the hour. live look at capitol hill.

joining us now from washington, the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. and in south carolina, nbc's peter alexander where people are up early this morning. what's going on there, peter? is there a party? >> reporter: good morning. there's a big party here, folks. we like to call this place the peanut warehouse. fittingly it was built for tobacco about 111 years ago. that's what i like to call it. today it's hosting mitt romney, another big event. we've been e-mailing back and forth, speaking to campaign advisers. the intent today an event this morning and a spaghetti dinner this evening in new hampshire. showing voters that they have the organization, the ability to campaign in two states in a single day. he did that yesterday as you saw with mccain and nikki haley. they're picking up people as they go. coming back with romney today to

new hampshire. >> awkward moments for john mccain and nikki haley yesterday. >> when you think of boiled peanuts, old tobacco farms, when you think of the deep south, when you think of good old boys, you think of mitt romney. it just rolls off the tongue. but, you know, it underlines the fact, mitt's going back down to south carolina. it underlines the fact. and i'm sure some people in new hampshire don't appreciate it, but right now if tim were here, he'd probably be saying it's south carolina, south carolina, south carolina. a lot of things we're seeing. where santorum is in new hampshire talking about how hep wants a jesus candidate, that ain't for manchester, that's for greenville, spartanburg. >> i remember back in 2000 when governor george w. bush beat john mccain in south carolina. some of his folks said, look, we ran a very strong ideological

campaign against him down in south carolina and it worked. and that's why we're calling this the super bowl for social conservatives because that's what south carolina's all about. for mitt romney, the tough part about this is that he goes down there, his establishment support as a governor who is not terribly popular despite credentials. he doesn't have the military background that benefitted senator john mccain. and social conservatives against him including rick perry who they're worried some about, who is going to set up shop down there and spend his money on taking out mitt romney. all of that said, as you know, if he comes down there 2-0, he's still a big favorite. >> what are the expectations for romney down there? we know mitt -- we know the rest of the field, newt gingrich, rick santorum have been looking to south carolina, the place they can do some damage if they can ride their way through new hampshire. what would constitute a win for romney down there where you are?

>> reporter: well, i think obviously for his challengers, this is the romney fire wall. this is the place as you put it -- as david put it, the super bowl for the social conservatives. for romney, he says he needs a strong showing. they're trying to demonstrate the way they think that can happen. mccain won the republican primary here four years ago. this is a state that correctly picked the republican nominee in every primary dating back to the year 1980. but mccain four years ago won because huckabee and fred thompson, remember, split that vote down the middle and mccain was able to run away with it down here. and their hope is that exact same thing takes place down here. for rick perry to make a stand here, the romney campaign would say, hey, you're welcome to join us. it really is the thing they think could benefit their candidate, the former massachusetts governor. >> if you're barack obama, what are you rooting for in the next two weeks? >> oh, just enough activity to

make mitt romney nervous. i think the last thing they want is for him to wrap this up early. they would like -- i was about to say they probably want a bigger field. i don't think so. i think they would like a solid alternative to romney to emerge to get some money and energy to prolong this contest. i think the problem for santorum who is running pretty well in new hampshire. you're looking at his campaign, he's sort of a natural campaigner for new hampshire. going to places where he'll take the tough questions. but if he wants to be that number two, it doesn't help that newt gingrich is staying in the game and particularly rick perry's in the game and ron paul who could be showing him, as well. i think the white house would like to see a solid number two to romney emerge and have the party coalesce around that one alternative candidate. seems that's the best way to elongate this process. >> and probably wanted santorum,

correct? >> oh, yeah. i think anybody who would really give romney a hard time. and at one point when white house officials i talked to actually feared perry because of his immigration stance and the potential to do well among minority voters particularly in the southwest. that was a long time ago. >> let me go to mark haleprin. there's news up in new hampshire that mitt romney has been endorsed by buchanan. >> go, bay, go. you've got to pick through the endorsements, we've had a lot and there'll be a lot more. find the ones of importance. bay buchanan is a long time prominent leader. it's a big deal in new hampshire where the buchanan name means a lot, but nationally among the conservative movement. there'll be more of these, but bay buchanan coming onboard for mitt romney a big deal. >> we will see -- i suspect her brother pat, david gregory, will

no be close behind on that endorsement. >> i think to mark's point, i do think it's important how big electability is. even those social conservatives who think we'd like to see a strong alternative or something. there's a question of they want to beat president obama and ultimately do they think mitt romney's the one to do that? even moike huckabee appeared stronger at this point. if you thought he would be the alternative. he's going to be hit. everybody thinks it's being too conservative. that's not really the case. he's going to be hit as all the -- for everything he did in washington to moderate his views to get reelected and for being a pretty big government conservative. >> he is a big government conservative. >> i want to know what's going to be happening today. is it the peanut gallery? peanut shack, peter alexander? >> reporter: the boys on the port like to call it the peanut warehouse. but there's two more key

endorsements down in this state that remain to be seen where they go, that's the two senators lindsey graham would likely follow john mccain and endorse mitt romney. but what jim demint does could be significant, as well. nikki haley not nearly as popular with tea partyists. while a lot of people love her around the country in that community, not as much here. jim demint is basically one of the first names the tea partiers throw up when they show the face of this party. and if he comes out to endorse somebody, that could help coalesce some support behind mitt romney himself. >> one of the few politicians in america that i would say right now whose endorsement actually matters. most endorsements in the heat of a campaign just don't matter. jim demint's matters, not only in south carolina but moving forward. >> i think it matters when you have a situation like we saw in

iowa where we had politicians there, congressmen who couldn't make a decision, which is not good, and not good for mitt romney. so to get it at this point is very good news. peter alexander. >> yeah, thank you, peter. and david, you're only a couple of days away. he keeps talking about the boys on the porch. let's go back to pretty boy for a second. the second we turn off the camera, they're going to savage him. that starched shirt you have -- >> you better be talking about gregory. you better be talking about gregory. >> it's going to be torn to shreds, alexander. >> he's a fellow californian like me. you leave him alone. we do just fine. >> when i come down there, i want -- >> peter, there's no spots there, i'm sorry. >> show me the fingernails. how groomed are the fingernails? >> what a gritty story for you. >> you're jealous. >> he looks good. >> you're jealous, buddy. >> david, let me ask you quickly

and we'll stay away from -- >> he looks very good. >> he does. looks great. >> and he eats very well, joe. >> i don't want to get into that. the side orders. but david gregory, let me ask you quickly, you're two days a way from what's going to be a pivotal day in the primary. the "meet the press" debate, two days away, what do you want to hear from the candidates? >> well, what's important about this debate. we've had so many, it's really time to pin them down on some key areas. now the clock is ticking. voters are really locked in. they are in new hampshire and south carolina. so i couple that with how much anxiety there is in the country and see this as a very important service to people who want to know these candidates better and want to see them challenged and i'm really looking forward to it. >> all right. >> going to be big. >> i heard he was catering from zebars in new york.

>> of course. they're giving it to him for free in kind contribution they love him so much. >> still ahead, presidential candidate buddy roemer. keep it here on "morning joe." so, this is delicious okay... is this where we're at now, we just eat whatever tastes good? like these sweet honey clusters... actually there's a half a day's worth of fiber in every ... why stop at cereal? bring on the pork chops and the hot fudge. fantastic. are you done sweetie? yea [ male announcer ] fiber beyond recognition. fiber one. hey, i love your cereal there-- it's got that sweet honey taste. but no way it's 80 calories, right? no way. lady, i just drive the truck. right, there's no way right, right? have a nice day. [ male announcer ] 80 delicious calories. fiber one.

nice shot, top of the rock, new york city. look at that. gorgeous sunrise. another headline for you this morning, the labor department is expected to deliver some good news today when they release their december jobs report showing an increase in manufacturing jobs for two consecutive years. up until last year, american manufacturers had not seen job growth since 1997. it is yet another sign pointing to a stronger job market and a recovering economy. yesterday, we learned the weekly unemployment numbers fell by 15,000 claims. the last week and the private sector added 325,000 jobs in the month of december. we're going to have the latest numbers from the labor department when they come out live at 8:30 eastern time. coming up, stephen colbert plays a rick santorum drinking game. we're going to have that full clip ahead in the cooler with

willie geist. and up next, buddy roemer unions us from manchester, new hampshire. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." an accident doesn't have to slow you down.

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i would say that if you're in south carolina with days to go before the new hampshire primary would pretty much suggest you feel you've got it wrapped up, and that would be taking the voters here for granted somewhat. i don't think new hampshire likes to be told for whom to vote. i don't think they're looking forward to any kind of coronation. they want it to be earned. and to earn the vote here, you can't do it from charleston. you've got to do it from newport, that's why we're here.

>> all right, welcome back to "morning joe." 43 past the hour. joining us now from manchester, new hampshire, former governor of louisiana and candidate for the republican nomination for president buddy roemer. good to have you back on the show this morning. >> thank you, good to be back. you know, it's snowing in new hampshire this morning. >> is it? >> yes. >> it's going to be pretty, we can't wait to get there. >> for a baton rouge boy, that's a big event. >> not quite as big as the national championship on monday night, but i'll give you my condolences later. >> don't be -- you're so wrong, joe, so often. so wrong. but you're consistent. >> there you go. >> give him that. >> i'm consistently wrong. so, you know what i was going to say nice things about buddy, but i think i'm going to -- >> take him away. >> let's talk about your message which really should be resinating in a state like new hampshire. for somebody in new hampshire that hasn't seen you before

because you're not allowed in the debates, launch. tell us why buddy roemer should be the next president of the united states. >> a nation in decline, lost 75% of its manufacturing jobs, 1 billion cell phones made in the world last year, not one of them produced in america. we're in trouble, debt we can't repay, a banking system that needs reform, a budget that needs reform, a tax code that needs reform. but you won't do any of those things until you kick the special interest out of the room. you need health care with doctors, nurses, and patients, not with lawyers, hospitals, and lobbyists. we need to clean out washington and then america will stand up. >> what is the first thing that you would do on day one as president of the united states to clean out washington? >> propose a campaign reform bill that is the number one issue. nothing happens without that.

i would have full disclosure, i'm a conservative, that's important to know who gives money. i would eliminate super pacs, they are clearly illegal under citizens united. the way they're being done now. i would have lobbyists not allowed to bring checks to politicians. i would have a 48-hour reporting period of all contributions, not 120 days, and finally, i would have criminal penalties in the law that if a politician violates it, he goes to jail. >> willie? >> we should point out, mr. roemer got 31 votes in the state of iowa, perhaps the difference in that eight-vote margin. >> well, you've got to be fair. you've got to be fair, i didn't run in iowa at all. >> i understand. >> i didn't go to iowa. i had to go to new hampshire. here's why. i didn't have the money. i've raised a third of $1 million.

and i'm spending my time in new hampshire. >> i didn't mean it as an insult. i'm saying you helped determine the election. >> how frightening is it for these other candidates? he swung the election. >> well, you know what i know you guys are serious with a smile. but you know what is amazing to me, as the only man running who has been a congressman and a governor with a darn good record at both, and i have not been asked to be on a single debate. >> unbelievable. >> could it be they don't want to hear about the money? i mean mitt romney takes million dollar checks under the table. i mean even rick santorum who is a decent guy formed a super pac. they're all in it together. there's not a bit of difference among them. they're bought and sold by the special interests. look at bank reform. it's a joke. >> hey, guys -- >> willie. >> yeah, governor, i wanted to ask you on a more serious note.

we all like your idea about getting the money out of washington, but how do you do it? how do you swim upstream when everybody is going the other way? how does one man do that? >> i haven't figured it out. one man can stand up and begin. i thought i would be on the debates. i'm not the best debater on earth. i like to tell jokes, i like to lift people up, i like to talk about america. but you know, there have been 16 nationally televised debates, two more coming up in new hampshire, i've been in new hampshire for five months, i have a smooth 3% or 4% here with no advertising and i can't get on a debate. something's wrong, joe. and you know it. >> i know. >> something's wrong. >> what's wrong more than anything was going to define us for the next century as a country, unfortunately, is the super pac thing. and we criticize the candidates. the sad thing is, they're playing within the laws of the supreme court that put us on the

wrong -- they're playing by the rules and the rules are rigged right now. >> i hear what you say -- >> that supreme court decision is going to define us as a nation for the coming 100 years. >> we can do something. the president needs to lead. i know he needs to lead on immigration reform, budget reform, bank reform, trade reform, but he needs to start by leading on campaign reform. the congress can act. i just laid out six points they could do that would change the whole election. they need to do it. but you know something? president obama is a hypocrite. he talks how he's against citizen united. he hasn't made a single suggestion to improve the politics of america. let me say i hate american politics. but i love america. and a president ought to stand up and change it. >> all right. >> well. okay. >> i agree with you. >> this is a great message, mika. >> it is a great message.

>> it's a message that resinates more with anybody -- with middle americans, i think. >> it does. >> it does. look at my contributions, guys. they come from democrats, they come from republicans, but most of all, they come from independents. almost 50% from independents. it sweeps from left to right across the entire country. i've gotten contributions from all 50 states, and i've only been to three in this campaign. it's awesome. >> it is awesome. >> that's why i like him. >> it is awesome. it is almost as awesome as a mighty crimson tide that will be sweeping into the superdome. >> oh, man. >> on monday night. i need a prediction from you, buddy, about what's going to happen on monday night. alabama and your lsu. >> lsu by 40. >> wow. >> awesome. >> i love the guy. >> i vote with my heart. i vote with my heart. >> you know why i'm in love with

him, alex, get it ready, the last time buddy was on our show and he wanted to crystallize what's wrong with our system. this is what he said. roll it. >> goldman friggin' sachs. >> i love it, buddy. >> my momma is 88. she had a birthday christmas day. she begged me not to use that word again so i'm not. >> well, i'm sorry to show it again but it was pretty good. >> loved it. >> thank you. >> thank you, buddy. >> can't wait to see him up in new hampshire. we need buddy back on the set with us up in new hampshire. by the way, i want to make sure people know, we're not being patronizing to him at all. >> no. >> we're laughing with him because he's a fun guy and he's an upbeat guy. >> and he has important things to say. >> an a energetic guy, but he believe his message is dead serious and more americans need to hear that. >> appreciate you saying that. >> coming up this, lsu nonsense.

we'll just bleep that the next time. >> mike murphy and the "washington post"'s eugene washington and the university of new hampshire will host us this sunday for a town hall meeting to discuss the new hampshire primary. that's this sunday at 6:00 in manchester, new hampshire. visit the university of new hampshire's website for more details. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind. ♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates.

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>> the gop presidential race is heating up. romney and santorum tied in iowa. perry soldiering on, and michele bachmann dropping out to spend more time fiercely staring at her family. in just one day since the caucuses santorum raised $1 million or as rick perry calls, it five iowa votes. but the santorum surge just got real, ladies and gentlemen, because he has caught the notice of the most influential voice of the 19th century, george will. who published a pro-santorum op-ed ensiteled "suddenly, a fun candidate." fun, and if anybody knows fun, it's george will. after all, a bowtie is just a

necktie that's doing this. and folks, you want fun. santorum is the life of the party. heck, he's the pro-life of the party. there's -- there's this great drinking game where you take a shot every time he says the words partial-birth abortion. jim. >> let's go back to the late 1990s and the issue of partial-birth. partial-birth abortion. partial-birth abortion. partial-birth abortion. okay. that's enough fun for now. oh it's clearance time!

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>> how did it affect you personally two men, two women get married? >> how about the idea that all men are created equal and like the rights to happiness and liberty? >> are we saying that everyone should have the right to marry, everyone? >> yes. >> okay. so anyone can marry anybody else? >> yeah.

>> okay. so anybody can marry anybody else, so anybody can marry several people? wait a minute, stop, stop, stop. we're not going to do this. >> for two men should have the same rights as a man and a woman. >> what about three men? >> not talking about three men. >> i'm going to give people one more chance and then we're going to move on. so i'm going to ask you a question again, if it makes three people happy to get married, what -- based on what you just said, what makes that wrong and what you said right? >> that's irrelevant. >> it's not irrelevant. >> let me thank you all very, very much for being here and for your time and attention. thanks. >> good morning. it is friday. welcome to "morning joe" at 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at new york

city. back here on the set donny deutsch and richard hass and from manchester, new hampshire, mark halperin. >> after this came out, well, he got booed at this event and that event and i sat there thinking rick santorum knew exactly what he was doing. >> what was he doing? >> he was actually trying to tackle a difficult debate where he's on a very unpopular side, and he just stayed with it. as the "new york times" said, santorum could have moved on, like every other candidate, but he wanted to go back and engage in a back and forth. i think some people in the republican base, regardless of whether they agree with him on this issue or not, are like, hey, the guy has a lot of fight in him. >> as a democrat, somebody who could not disagree with him more ideologically on every issue there's a human being up there and you have to respect that, and what's interesting even watching him go at -- i forgot who it was in there, he says at

the end of the day this is what i believe. i wouldn't necessarily -- i don't believe to impose it in law. what i respect about him that i've not seen in any of the other candidates there is a genuine human being with conviction. >> there is. >> so i've got to give him points for that, at least, that and i do not think this guy is going away. i really do not. >> i don't either, and he's not my kind of conservative. >> yeah. >> he is more of a big government conservative. he defers to the government too much, i think the federal government, on social policy, and he wants an aggressive foreign policy internationally, and he's big believer in big government republicanism. that said, there are a lot of republicans that will say, hey, he's human. he's a fight, i'll like him. >> i'll put it in a nutshell for you. you know my friends who shatted me down over dinner and loved herman cain. >> thought he would be the guy. >> they love rick santorum now.

>> the kiss can of death. >> all right. mark halperin, the translate is, as alex said, there's still people out there that just can't find themselves marrying mitt romney. >> there's a big group of people like that, and some of them will go to rick santorum. i'll tell you, he had great events yesterday. he went to a diner and was mobbed there. it's not just a likability, an electricity about him that no one else has right now the way he does. the romney people don't think he has enough time to capitalize on it and enough resources. and remember, mitt romney has lifted not a pink toe try to define rick santorum on negative terms. the history of this campaign so far is when someone has truly threatened mitt romney romney's campaign hasn't gone after him >> i they still fear newt gingrich and to a lesser degree they fear, to a much lesser degree now, rick perry.

those are two guys they fear that if they take off, that could cause real problems moving forward towards tampa, but santorum, you almost sense they want him to get stronger because he kills newt, and he kills perry. >> i think they fear perry more than anybody else. >> wait a second, they still fear pery? >> they do. more than anybody else. not particularly, but they fear him the most. >> the damage he can do. >> if you ask the high command there across the board, they would say we're very confident, think we'll do well in new hampshire and well going forward, but if there's one person who can can beat us if he has a second act, it's perry. >> and, of course, the reason why, mika, as we get past iowa, spend two years focused on iowa and an intense week focused on new hampshire and then you move south, and guess which states are going toy decide this nomination, or at least the outline of it as you move south. you're going to have south carolina and then florida.

and then you've got super tuesday with alabama, mississippi, georgia, louisiana, texas, oklahoma. all of these states that are custom made for a southern candidate, so that's why if rick perry can can do well in south carolina, he could catch fire. i don't see that happening. >> he's still got money left. >> can i ask mark one question before we move on. you keep saying and everybody keeps saying saying santorum doesn't have the organization. in this world of internet where you raise a million bucs overnight, and super pac money where you can find $1 billion overnight, where the world doesn't want organization, what exactly does that mean? once and for all, explain to me why he can't go on to south carolina and win given the things i just said? >> well, i don't think organization -- i think you're right the organization is overrated in the age in which we live, although it still matters, at least for a few points. even romney in south carolina doesn't have much of an organization compared to what

we've seen in the past so i don't think that's his biggest problem. resources, getting well know, having the -- the overall have to go up against a strong front-runner. you know, i was talking to newt gingrich yesterday, and he made a really good point which is eventually, if one of these conservative or romney alternatives is willing to stick with it, if it's true that mitt romney has a ceiling, i'm no math genius but in a one-on-one race gingrich suggested any of these candidates could beat mitt romney if romney's ceiling holds. >> if santorum can get one-on-one, interesting to see a series of polls works are you for, santorum or romney, it's possible he could survive that and thrive there. the problem for all of them if gingrich and paul and -- and rick -- and both ricks stay in, romney never has to have that one-on-one challenge. >> so let's get to where we're going next, and that is new hampshire. with only four days to go until the voting in new hampshire, the republican presidential field is gearing up for two debates this

weekend. the focus is likely to be on mitt romney. as the latest curveball university poll, the former massachusetts governor carrying 41% in the granite state. romney beats his closest competition, ron paul, by over 20 points and coming off his strong finish in iowa rick santorum jumps two points to 8% and right behind him, newt gingrich and jon huntsman, but huntsman is getting a boost heading into the weekend. the newspaper, the "boston globe," is putting their support behind the former utah governor saying he offers the republican party an opportunity, to quote, renew itself. the endorsement focused on comparisons between huntsman and front-runner mitt romney saying, quote, while romney proceeds cautiously, strategically trying to apiece enough quintsies to get himself the nomination, huntsman has been bold. rather than merely sketch out policies, he articulates goals and ideas.

he's stood up far more forcefully against romney who rejected evolution and the science behind global warming. >> but let's go briefly to mark, and then i want to move on to this defense story. >> yeah. >> and go to richard. >> go to richard here, but, you know, there are a lot of states like, for instance, florida, where if the newspapers endorse you, you start to get nervous. i know in my race if newspapers endorsed me, i threw those papers away, but if they attacked me, i would hold them up on the campaign trail. new hampshire is different. new hampshire is a state that where you had, mark, one editorial page after another endorse john mccain back in -- in 2008, and it mattered. huntsman is getting all of those endorsements right now. he's going up on tv now. the super pacs a s are going up >> he had a pretty good crowd

out in new port, and he's improved as a candidate, but right now i still don't see it. i think he's also going to be endorsed by "the nation" magazine and "huffington post." >> yeah. >> look, there's kind words for him in that editorial by the "globe," but his biggest problem, you talk to any republican from the other campaigns, they say he still hasn't defined himself. what is he? is he the guy who says i'm more moderate or centrist, or am atrue conservative? being endorsed by the "boston globe," he's proud of it and happy about it. >> can can we go on to this defense story? >> because richard is here, and he hasn't talked yet. >> president obama is putting his mark on the american military that could change the way the united states engages in international conflicts for years to come. the president's ambitious new plan markets largest shift in u.s. foreign policy in decades. the plan calls for an adjustment to america's two-car strategy, a greater emphasis on the asia-pacific and a smaller force to combat terrorism. the plan also calls for the defense department to make more

than $450 billion in cuts over the next ten years, likely coming from military salaries, benefits and select weapons systems. president obama and defense secretary leon panetta defended the historic change of military strategy yesterday at the pentagon. >> now we're turning the page on a decade of war. this success has brought our nation once more to a moment of transition. our military will be leaner, but the world must know the united states is going to maintain our military superiority with armed forces that are agile, flexible and ready for the full range of contingencies and threats. >> it really does represent a historic shift to the future, and it recognizes that this country is at a strategic turning point after a decade of war and after large increases in defense spending.

all of this comes at a time when america confronts a very serious deficit and debt problem here at home, a problem which is itself a national security risk that is squeezing both the defense and domestic budgets. >> richard, americans are distracted right now by the elections and more importantly by the alabama/lsu game coming up monday night. >> no. >> we're less than 100 years. >> they are really not. >> distracted by the more important things. talk about the historic significance of these cuts and why this is actually something that we're going to be living with for quite some time. >> this is actually important. this is the beginning antarcticlation of what you might call the post-iraq, post-afghanistan defense strategy. it means we won't be finding these enormous land wars in the middle east. the only really large land war that anybody can can imagine anymore is on the korean peninsula. other than that we're probably looking at very discreet counterterrorism things, the

sorts of things we do in yemen or somalia, possibly air and naval-type confrontation within air, but this is the beginning of the new phase of american defense policy, more oriented towards asia-pacific. that's where history is going to happen in the 21st century. that's where the real power is. we're looking to save some dollars. this is about an 8% cut in the core defense budget, on top of the cuts that will come from doing less in afghanistan. in a sense, this is gutsy, an articulation of new priorities. it's going to make some people unhappy. >> right. >> but it's a big deal. >> this is described as a turning of the page towards china and also to iran. what does it mean practically to turn the page? will we have more troops in that part of the world? what are we going to do vis-a-vis china in. >> you're not going to reduce your presence in the asia-pacific. continued emphasis on air and naval forces which is what you really want in that part of the world, a hedging strategy. not sure what china is going to do with its growing power.

we'll be there and keep our alliances active. no more iraqs and afghanistans, by that you mean $100,000 plus american troops in the greater middle east. it means being prepared with air and naval forces to deal with the strait of hormuz, some sorts of problem with iran. the two parts of the world that matters. asia-pacific is where the power is. the middle east is where the problems are. >> richard do, we think that after a decade of distractions we are going to start focusing on enemy number one, and i don't use the word enemy. >> we'll careful with it. >> i can call iran an en. >> i okay. >> iran is an enemy, and they have been our enemy since 1979. they have been the epicenter of terror since 1979. they are a clear and present danger to the united states of america, to israel, to the middle east, to our allies, and all you have to do is look at what pakistan does to u.s.

foreign policy leaders day in and day out and multiply that by 100 field when iran gets the bomb to see what dangers lie ahead. how do we check iran? >> actually doesn't quite mean that. it means that the long-term potential adversary, potential is china. that's why the emphasis on the asia-pacific. it means the real problem, the enemy, if you will, is our own economic problems. that's why you see the cuts in defense. that's really significant. iran, too soon to say yet we're going to war with them. what you're beginning to see is all the contingency planning and right now iran's bark is worse than its bite. i don't think they will close the strait of hormuz but we've got to be prepared for the contingency. >> you're not suggesting like ron paul that they are not trying to develop nuclear weapons. are you a ron paul supporter? >> oh, okay. >> iran -- iran is enriching uranium. now up to the level 20%.

they are not yet up to 90%. iran is not yet at point. we and the israelis still have time to turn this around in iran with economic sanctions. >> pakistan when we woke up the morning after and read in the "washington post," i was in congress at the time, that pakistan had a nuclear bomb, did we see that coming? >> oh, yeah, because for years we knew -- we had to certify every year that pakistan -- >> obviously china helped them get there quick. >> i and others. >> but also pakistan at the time was seen to some extent as a friend. the united states was somewhat tolerant of it. obviously in the case of iran, given their support for terrorism and the rest, there's zero tolerance. >> coming up, we're just minutes away from the december jobs report. it's expected to be quite good. >> that's great. >> up next, republican consultant mike murphy live from new hampshire. also, the "the washington post's" eugene robinson. >> we'll ask eugene, by the way, about him going after santorum. that's created a real firestorm. >> well, we'll get to that.

>> yeah, but first, will your atlanta falcons find a way to survive in the meadowlands this weekend? >> against willie's giants. >> giants. >> we'll bring in peter king and mike florio for the postseason predictions but first bill karins on the postseason forecast. >> going to try to predict what happens, and he always gets it wrong. >> i'm going to go ahead with a new year's resolution and continue to ignore all negative comments. good morning, everyone. we are watching snow this morning. yes, snow, just a little bit of it. of course, we'll be talking a ton about new hampshire. po portland, maine, a little bit on the ground. careful driving up i-95 in that location. warm air on the way. look at d.c., 60 degrees, and as we talk about new hampshire as we go towards primary, the forecast looks perfect up through new hampshire and into two, so it should be a good turnout come tuesday for the voting. as far as the weekend forecast goes, very warm january

conditions go. yesterday there were 200 record highs. still looks more like spring than it does middle winter, even saturday, just a little bit of light rain down on the gulf. cloudy and cool conditions and i would say about 95% of the country is going to have another beautiful warm january weekend. it has to end sooner or later. maybe we'll get punished in february. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks.

the media works like the jurassic park dinosaurs, 30 feet

tall, huge teeth, with all due respect not the biggest brain and follows movement and when it sees movement, rick santorum, stomps over there and tries to eat rick santorum. that's what new hampshire will be like. the happiest guy on tuesday night. wednesday he has to stand on his head and drink from a fire hose without drowning and learn chinese in one week to roll this out nationally. >> you fight to be first. you have a responsibility that comes with that, and that is to lead, not pay attention to what the polls say, not pay attention to what the pundits say. how many pundits were right over the last six months about what -- what was going to happen in this race? none. serially wrong. i mean, they are worse than weathermen. so don't trust them. trust yourself. >> worse than weathermen, wow. >> that's horrible. >> that's a mean thing to say. >> i would never say anything

bad about our weatherman. >> he's the sweetest, most kind man. joining us now from manchester, new hampshire, republican political consultant and columnist for "time" magazine mike murphy, and in washington pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. >> not quite as kind, gene. i would be remiss if i didn't start with you. you caught an awful lot of flack for what you said about rick santorum yesterday and alan colme sze said the same thing and apologized. do you think you may have gone overboard a little bit in your criticisms of santorum? we haven't talked about it. i'm not setting you up for anything. i was taken aback by what you said. my wife works likes you very much, couldn't believe you said it. >> what did he say? >> well, gene, you said he --

rick santorum was kind of kooky for the way he behaved after his infant died. >> well, yeah. what i actually said was i thought some people would think that was weird. that was obviously not the right way to say what i was trying to express, but -- so i -- i certainly didn't mean to offend anybody, especially mr. santorum, but it was in a discussion of his views, and, you know, which i consider extreme, and santorum himself who is a cultural -- culture warrior extraordinaire, whose faith and we all appreciate someone of deep faith, but it is -- it is extremely deep, and it's a kind of faith that some

people i think are going be if not surprised by at least want to know more. >> okay. that's fair enough, but is it the decision about what you do with an infant that passed away a highly personal decision? this was not a stillborn child. this was an infant that was born and that lived for a few hours, and there are actually pediatric specialists who say the family needs to say good-bye to that sort of child. children, if you make that decision parents, could get closure that way too. >> why touch it? >> why would you even talk about it? that's a really personal decision, isn't it? >> it is a personal decision, and i've certainly been educated on the subject since -- in the past day, so i do understand that -- that this is not -- it's

not something that's in any way beyond the pale or considered inadvisable and that many grief counselors do advise a period of saying good-bye to a child who tragically dies in that way. >> do you wish you hadn't written that part of it? >> i didn't write anything. i didn't write this at all. it's something i said on the air. >> do you wish you hadn't said it? you can see how prepared i am. >> i wish i hadn't said it that way, joe. you know, i -- we had -- had this sort of discussion when i wrote about chris christie's weight, and i do think that a columnist has an obligation to -- to write what he horshe -- what he or she thinks and write what he or she sees, but obviously i did it in the wrong way. >> okay. >> or in a way that rubs people the wrong way, and that's not what i intended.

>> okay. let's get to mike murphy. >> you know, i hope you don't mind us talking about, that gene. we consider can you a friend. there's a lot of noise out there about it, and i just wanted everybody to hear your side of the story. >> i appreciate the opportunity, joe. >> okay, great. let's go to mike murphy who mike just offends people every day by his mere presence in a room. >> mike. >> you don't have time to apologize to everybody. let's talk about new hampshire. this is a fascinating development. you know, monday, tuesday, we were all sitting around going this contest is so boring. it's not like 2008, and then suddenly, boom, everybody's up all night looking at one of the closest contests in modern american history. it's suddenly become a fa fascinating race again. >> yeah, you know, it always kind of wants to be in the end because that's where the process finds its own order as opposed to the pontification and left-handed theories that go on for a year before.

now it's shaking down a little bit. this thing wants a regular republican front-runner, that's romney and wants a movement conservative opponent, and i think that will be santorum, and there will be turbulence getting there. >> he tweeted yesterday that the media anointed mitt romney too quickly. are we the media? >> did the media anoint him? >> i'm a contrarian and i like to yell at the television. my point is we try to have these instant daily judgments, and we don't know. i do predict that in the next 48 hours you're going to see polling data showing rick santorum zooming up here in new hampshire, and that will start a punditry rush. not everybody, tends to be so much on cable and regular tv. i think santorum will start doing business here in new hampshire. can i kind of feel it, looking around yesterday and that will start a rush of oh, my god, romney is in trouble. the truth is in the middle. rick is heading for second,

strengthen his campaign and then south carolina is going to be a big deal. >> i think it's important to say i make a projection, that that's going to happen exactly. >> yes. >> and it could change tomorrow. >> it could change tomorrow. >> the question is how close. >> mike, i think it's the opposite that the media anointed mitt romney too see and we're seeing in santorum. we want the show to go on. the second there's a glimmer of anything we prop it up because it makes it more interesting, and i agree with you -- it's a fait accompli. >> i don't think we are that powerful. >> of course we are. >> not "morning joe." >> how could you say if rick santorum this week for the past four or five days is getting huge, as well he should, share of voice, of course he's going to pop and he's going to be near 20? >> that's exactly right. >> just an observation. >> it was a contrary -- i don't think we've appoint admit romney. i think we're keeping everybody else alive. >> do you agree? >> i'm sorry, the cross-talk, i couldn't hear everybody. what was the question? >> i'm saying the opposite, we

didn't -- we're not anointing mitt romney. we're keeping everybody else alive because otherwise there's no story. >> well, that's a true factor. what i tweeted was i'm hearing words like inevitable all the time. i think romney is likely. look at the process. he has a lot of advantages, but it ain't inevitable and they want a story of turbulence, and i think there's going to be turbulence. i think it's highly likely in the expectations casino romney may do less well than the media thinks he ought to. you can argue that whole equation and you go to south carolina and that's tough territory for mitt. and then it goes into florida which is going to be the real back-breaker. somebody will have momentum. my point is the race is not over. the delegate race is only beginning and inevitable is a really bad word to throw around. my snarky prediction was the minute the polling changes, all this -- everything i heard yesterday, and i'm not talking about, it's everywhere, i'm not pick on your show. i'm on your show because i think it's better than most. >> what show would be better

than our show? >> one show on sunday i'm very fond off. >> try picking on our show and it would do you no good. >> look at the other side of this equation, gene, what do you think the white house is thinking, the people in chicago are thinking as they watch this play out, as rick santorum rises a little bit and puts on a challenge to mitt romney. what are they thinking as they watch? >> i think they are rooting the way joe is going to be rooting for the tide on monday night, you know, keep going, roll. keep this -- keep this race alive. >> 40 points. >> it could be santorum. newt gingrich, get in there and kill romney, do whatever you can, because all of this is -- this is seen as good for president obama. i'm curious as to what mike thinks is going to happen to the ron paul vote though because hasn't he been -- >> they will smoke a lot of mott. >> does he vote go to santorum, or does he still get his, what,

16%, 18%, 20%? >> just the point about the white house. what i think they are rooting for realistically is santorum forces romney even farther right, when the riskier but smarter campaign for romney would be to training late more to the middle which the white house is afraid of. santorum could be an opportunity, but so far the romney campaign tends to be cautious and probably won't do that. as far as ron paul, everybody is excited here that the big saucer is supposed to land tomorrow and the ron paul show will run into town. >> balloon boy. >> but i think his half life -- his high point was seven days ago. he's in decline. he'll get his 9% to 13% here. the real kind of sad story is is huntsman had a window in theory if romney had come out of iowa damaged but santorum is the new story and it's crowding out huntsman so i don't think he's going anywhere. again, the big question is will santorum get to second, and if he gets to second will we get to

within single digits and for romney's point of view, under six points, i think he's got a shot of that. >> let me ask you, mike. you obviously had a big fan of jeb's. i'm a big fan of jeb's from way back as well. >> sure. >> you look at this field and you've just got to think if the guy's last name had been smith, he'd be ahead by 40 points right now. it's hard to watch this field and watch jeb sitting on the sidelines for me. what about you? >> yeah, you know, i worked for him on both those campaigns. he's a friend of mine, and all i can say is he's told me, and i believe him, it's obvious now he's not running, but he seems to have a remarkable facility for new hampshire voter statistics so i'm not sure that chapter is closed for the future. he's a superstar candidate, and the white house -- even mitt romney says if jeb were running i'm not sure i would be. it's really a consensus as one of our best governors, and he'd be great and one day might run. >> nice to see you. >> eugene, we love you.

remember how feisty i got with you on your chris christie column? >> remember, yes. i remember. >> thank you, gene, appreciate you being here. >> thank you very much. >> thanks, joe. up next the december jobs report just released. keep it here on "morning joe." we'll have that here right after the break. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. liberty mutual auto insurance. ♪ where the sun never goes out ♪ ♪ and the sky is deep and blue ♪ ♪ won't you take me

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all right. 38 past hour. we've been waiting for this news. the december jobs report was just released. let's get the latest from cnbc's brian schactman. brian, what are the numbers in. >> plus 100,000 jobs with an unemployment rate of 8.5%. >> okay. >> the expectation was 155 and a tick up in the unemployment rate to 8.7. >> wow. >> so it's a strong number, the lowest unemployment rate since february of 2009, so the trend is definitely towards a stronger jobs market here. do i want to point out a couple quick things. 5.6 million long-term unemployed. government shed 12,000 jobs last month. that's 280 government jobs lost last year and to what joe was talking about earlier there were 23,000 manufacturing jobs added. the estimate was for circumstances and can i tell you i've done a lot of reporting across the country in the last year on manufacturing in the u.s., and a lot of people say it's more expensive overseas to

ship and to pay for workers and for goods, and so there is a little bit after thesies there that could point to some manufacturing rebound here in the u.s. >> brian, you're exactly right, and we're looking at these numbers and it excites me, and i've talked a long time about alabama, stealing jobs from germany, and the mercedes plant, made the suvs and did such a good job. they are now making the entire c-class, making it cheaper, and it's the most profitable plant in the world so germany is moving more plants over here. brian, as you know in south carolina, bmw in south carolina have been linked up, airbus is coming over here. yes, we have to focus on high-tech, but we've got a chance to build a manufacturing base to get working class people back into factories and back -- back on the work lines again. >> i'm not taking a stance on labor unions at all, but a lot of those plants are non-unions. labor unions have sort of moderated some of their asks and

bringing down those costs and local governments do a lot to help the businesses stay. there's definitely a thesis that supports your argument. >> there's no doubt about it, and i'll tell you what, i've even talked to the top union leaders in america. saying all these jobs are going to alabama and south carolina and tennessee. when are they going to start coming to kentucky, i mean, when are they going to come to connecticut and rhode island and even the top union leaders in america say, you know what, we overstepped with some of these work force rules. we need to get jobs back to the northeast as well as -- >> upper west side, upper east side. >> we're making bagels up there. >> this is good news. >> it's great news, mika, and i see the smirk on your face. >> it's not a smirk. >> i think -- you think it's all about barack obama. i think it's about america's workers and productivity being number one. >> seriously, the people had nothing to do this. >> it will clearly benefit president obama, but you know what? i cheer for america.

>> of course. >> this is a trend that started in 1973. we're not going to fix it overnight, and one party is not going to fix it overnight and one president is not going to fix it overnight. this is part of a long battle. >> mm-hmm. >> by the way, those enginegerms came to alabama before barack obama so don't make this about one person. >> excuse me, have i said a word? you're smirking. >> he's going to win if this continues, no discussion. >> great news for the president, and guess what -- >> yeah, it is. >> -- it's great news for america. i want america to win. >> nfl predictions with mike florio and steve king just ahead.

so if i had to put you on the spot right now, nothing like a super bowl prediction in july, but who would you put in the game? >> i'll give you a little bit of an upset, maybe, but i think the detroit lions might -- >> in the super bowl? >> might, might, but i want to

see what they do in free agency first. >> peter, you've lost your mind. >> i know. >> peter king just said the detroit lions might be in the super bowl. >> might. >> junk us now is senior nfl writer "s.i." and analyst for "football night in america," peter king, and also with us, the founder of the sports blog profootballtalk.com, mike florio. peter, the lions, kind of right. >> wow. >> a tough task this weekend. >> they have a tough task. however, anybody who says the saints will beat them by 20 or 30, whatever. when they played five weeks ago, the lions outgained the saints and only screwed up the game because of 110 yards in penalties. i like the saints to win everything, but this is going to be a tougher game than people think for them. >> do you think the saints are the best team in football? >> they are pretty good right now, but the problem is when you get them out of the superdoemp, a very different team, so even if they win on saturday night

and have to go to san francisco next weekend, that won't be an easy task for the saints, fundamentally different when you get them away from home. i kind of like the lions to steal this one in a basketball type of a score. >> you think they will upset new orleans in new orleans? >> got a weird feeling. >> a weird feeling that's wrong. >> it could be wrong, but it's still a weird feeling. >> what about the other nfc game? we have giants partisans on the set, one falcons fan. >> he likes the falcons. >> and i like the giants. >> nobody is picking the falcons. >> that's why i pick the falcons because if i'm wrong nobody notices if i'm right and i'm a genius. the falcons, if they stick to a conservative game plan, run the ball, run the ball, run the ball. don't feel justified to prove that matt ryan is a big-time quarterback and don't feel you have to force the ball to julio jones because you traded up for him, run the balls. giants have had bad games at home. >> so up and down. >> can you really convince the giants this is a huge moment or will they be thinking next week at lambeau field or san francisco?

>> i hope so. >> last two weeks they have shown they have the best pass rush by far in football. jason pierre-paul is half man -- >> a monster. >> -- half gastineau and eli manning has the best postseason we've ever seen. 2007 when he went on the road four times and had a great january. >> bet fourth-quarter passer in football. >> can we finally put to rest all the naysayers about eli manning. this guy has put together a great season. he's a great quarterback. >> but there are moments where he does not show up. 9 for 27 for the jets. but for the 90-yard run by victor cruz his numbers that day were horrible. go back a week before that when he played the redskins, horrible, the team was flat. that's why there's a chance, that same funk we saw three weeks ago will descend on giants stadium >> i think the falcons are going to win. >> if they rely on michael turner, they have a heck of a shot. tim tebow, does he have a heck

of a shot of at least praying one time before the end of the game? >> i mean, you lose 24-9 or you lose -- >> pray for help. >> you know, i don't know, to me, you know, tim tebow, john elway this week, the club president, basically sent out a plea to tim tebow. hey, take some chances. make those throws. the problem is those throws he's seen for eight or ten weeks and he hasn't made them. doesn't have the confidence to make them. he's a 41% passer the last three weeks. >> scored three points in what was a must win essentially against the chiefs. quickly through our picks. giants and falcons, said it it already. i like the giants. mike's going with the falcons. >> the falcons. >> i love it. >> peter is staying with the giants. joe, we know where you stand on that one. falcons all the way. >> bengals and texans. texans playing with a backup quarterback, lost three in a row so i'm going with cincinnati. mike? >> houston in that one. >> really? >> i've got houston mainly because andy dalton was in the hospital yesterday in cincinnati with a fever. i don't know. he's going to be a little woozy,

and when he sees the houston pass rush he'll be woozier. >> i'm going with the bengals. i'm going with the bengals for a very good reason. >> yes. >> a.j. green plays for them. >> exactly. that's reason number one. number two willie said go with the bengals. >> they have a backup reek quarterback. >> let's go to the saints and lions. >> going with the saints playing at home. >> i like the lions. >> all right. >> saints. >> i love the lions, but i'm going with the saints. they are going to win this one going away. >> steelers and broncos. >> i don't think tebow does anything against the defense. >> if it's positive to score negative points, the broncos l.i like the steelers. >> they will put that on a bulletin board in denver's locker sglolock er room. if you care what i'm saying, they obviously have trouble. >> i'm with the steelers but would i love to see tebow finish the season strong. an incredible story. >> and everyone who says he's a phone, he's not. >> he's real. >> trust me, he's 100%. >> as a defender of the feminist movement i was offended that

mika was yanked off the set and said a woman does not belong here. >> that's because she likes the browns this weekend. >> she's a brownies fan. >> let me tell you, she couldn't lead fast enough. heard the word football. >> peter, could still come true. lions in the super bowl. see if you're right. peter king and mike florio, thanks, we'll be right back. this is an rc robotic claw. my high school science teacher made me what i am today. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪

the santorum surge just got real, ladies and gentlemen, because he has caught the notice of the most influential voice of the 19th century, george will. who published a pro-santorum op-ed entitled, "suddenly, a fun candidate." fun. and if anybody knows fun it's george will. after all, a bowtie is just a necktie that's doing this. pow.

welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what you lifrpd today. william, what did you learn? >> i'm going to pass to donny deutsch. he said willie -- >> my last appearance, can no longer be part of a show that discriminates against women. they literally physically removed you from the set during the football segment and i have an issue with that. >> at this point he's making me tired. >> what did you learn? >> it's a great opportunity to play the victim, but i chose to leave, sorry. i chose to leave. >> what do you like? >> look at those gangsta stripes.