innovation for the planet. innovation for all. this sunday, a special edition of "meet the press," live from new hampshire. the last debate before the first in the nation republican presidential primary. voting here is just 48 hours away. we come to the granite state where nearly 1 in 5 voters remains undivided despite seeing the candidates face-to-face, in town halls, coffee shops and in their living rooms. their motto, live free or die.

the issues, jobs and the economy. america's role in the world and which of these candidates is best suited to take on president obama. this morning, a debate in partnership with facebook, the world's number one social platform, and the new hampshire union leader. the candidates, the issues and your questions. here now, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. >> good morning and welcome to the special edition of "meet the press," the final debate. all six candidates are here, and we quickly go through the rules. each candidate has one minute, 60 seconds on to make their statement to respond to questions, and at my discretion,

30 seconds for follow-ups or e rebuttals. i will ask them to stay within their allotted time and we will see how that goes. some of the questions will come from me and some from you. we encourage you to weigh in on the debate in real time. on our online app, can you monitor the conversation there, and we will see some of your feedback during that debate over the course of this debate. candidates, good morning. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> i want to say on behalf of all americans, that i thank you for being willing to debate each other every ten hours, whether you feel you need it or not. this is an important moment. elections are about choices. they are about distinguishing one from the other. there's a political element to that, and of course it has to do with policy as well. governor romney has won the iowa caucuses, although narrowly, and he is up in the polls in new

hampshire and up in the polls down in south carolina. speaker gingrich, why should not the governor romney be the nominee of this party? what about his record concerns you most or makes him disqualified to be the nominee? >> i think what republicans has to ask who is most likely in the long run to survive against the billion-dollar campaign the obama campaign team will run. a i think a bold reagan conservative with a strong economic plan is more likely to succeed than a timid massachusetts moderate who even the wall street journal said he has a plan so timid he resembled obama. we created 11 million jobs while i was speaker and i worked with president reagan in 1980, so there's a huge difference between a reagan conservative,

and somebody that comes out of the massachusetts culture, who i think will have a very hard time in a debate with president obama. >> bottom line, you think romney is unelectable? >> against obama's record, i think the fact is that president obama is going to have a very hard re-election effort, but the biggest the contrast and boulder ideas, the harder that is for the billion-dollar campaign can spear his way back into office. >> this is your flyer, and it says clearly romney is not electable? >> i think he will have a hard time getting re-elected -- elected. >> governor? >> i am proud of the record that i have, and you cannot fool the people of massachusetts as the record of the governor next year. i brought important change to massachusetts. i cut taxes 19 times and balanced the budget every one of the four years i was governor,

and put in place a rainy day fund. we had seen job losses in the months leading up to my becoming the governor, and then we began to finally create jobs. we created more jobs in massachusetts than barack obama's created in the entire country. we also got our state police to enforce illegal immigration laws, and put in place english emerged in our schools, and i am proud of the conservative records that i have, and i believe that's why some of those that don't have an axe to grind has gotten behind my campaign, governor haley, and chris christie, and these are conservatives that looked at my record, and i believe if we want to replace a life-time politician, like barack obama who had no experience leading anything, you have to choose somebody who has not been a lich-long politician and has not

spent his entire career in washington and has proven time again he can lead, in the private sector twice, and in the olympics and as a governor. >> senator santorum, had you not lost the election you would have been there, and why shouldn't governor romney be the nominee? what is disqualifying in your judgment? >> if his record is so great, why didn't he run for re-election. if you won't stand behind the people of massachusetts, if your record was that great why did you bail out? the bottom line is, i go and fight the fight. if it was that important to the people of massachusetts that were going to fight for them, at least you can stand up and make the battle that you did a good job. i ran for re-election a couple times and ran a couple times, and i was redistricts. i was in a 71% democratic district, it was a hard thing to

do. my district is more democrat than the state of massachusetts. i stood up with the conservative principles. i didn't do what governor romney did in 1994, i was running the same year he did, and i ran in the state of pennsylvania against anni incumbent. romney ran for ronald reagan and said he would be to the left of t ted kennedy. we need somebody that will stand up and fight for the conservative principles and not bail out and not run and not run to the left of ted kennedy. >> you did say four years ago he would stand up for principles. >> john mccain. >> well, a lot of things were inaccurate, and i will not go through them one by one, but i will tell you i think it's unusual and understandable that

people that spend their life in politics imagine if you get in politics that's all you want to do. i went to massachusetts to make a difference. i did not go there to begin a political career running time and time again. i made a difference and put in place the things i wanted to do, and i listed out the accomplishments we wanted to pursue in our administration. those things i pursued aggressively and some we ran and some we didn't. run again? that would be about me. i was trying to get the state in the best shape i possibly could, and left the world of politics and went back in business, and now i have the opportunity to use the experience i have -- you have a surprised look on your face -- >> rick, rick, it's still my time. >> i am just asking. >> governor romney, take 30 seconds there. >> what i will tell you, this

for me, politics is not a career. for me, my career was being in business and starting a business and making it successful. my life's passion is my family, faith and my country. i believe in the experiences i have had i am in a position to make a contribution to washington. i long for a day instead of people go to washington for 20 and 30 years, and when they lose they stay there and make money as lobbyist, and i think it stinks. i think people should go to work in washington and serve washington and serve as the people of their nation and go home. i would like to see term limits in washington. as the president of the united states, if i am elected, of course i will fight for a second term. >> take 30 seconds. >> i realize the red light doesn't mean anything to you because you are the frontrunner -- but could we drop a little bit of the pieious

baloney. you ran in '94 and lost, and that's why you were not serving with santorum. you had a bad rating and dropped office and had been out of state for 200 days and prepared to run for election, and you were running for president while you were governor, and you were going all over the country, and you were out of state consistently, and you then promptly re-entered politics and lost to mccain as you did to kennedy. you have been running consistently for years and years, and then suddenly citizenship showed up in your minds, and just level with the american people, you have been running since the 1990s. >> governor, please. >> mr. speaker, citizenship has always been on my mind. and i happened to see my dad run for governor when he was 54 years old. he had good advice to me. he said never get involved in politics if you have to win

election to pay a mortgage. if you find yourself in a position when you can serve, you ought to have a responsibility to do so if you think you can make a difference, and don't get involved in politics when your kids are still young because it may turn their heads. when i saw ted kennedy running virtually unopposed, a man had created a permanent under class in america, i thought somebody has to run against him. i happened to have been wise enough to realize i did not have a ghost of a chance of beating him. a republican from massachusetts was going to beat ted kennedy. i told my partners in my firm, i will be back in six months, don't take my chair. i was happy that he had to take a mortgage out on his house to ultimately defeat me. i am very proud of the fact that i have stood up as a citizen to battle where i felt it was best for the nation, and we're talking about running for president. i am in the race because i care about the country.

>> let me bring paul into this, because there is a question about who is the true conservative in the race. governor romney said nine years ago in an interview, he said i think people recognize i am not a partisan republican and i am somebody moderate and views are progressive, and do you believe romney now when he says he will stand up for conservative principles. >> this discussion sosuperficia. i think we should deal with the issues as well. i don't see how we can do well against obama if we have any candidate that endorsed, you know, single payer systems and t.a.r.p. payouts, and injections of bailing out their friends, i don't see how we can have anybody compete with obama that doesn't challenge this huge empire we have oversees in the

overseas spending. this is how nations come down. you extend them too far overseas, and that's how the soviets came down. we have to talk about real cuts and we have got gotten around to this yet. if we want to change things, this is what we have to talk about. character is important and motivation is important, and history is important but i consider that in the debate format to be less signature than what we really believe in. >> you read my mind, dr. paul, and we will get to some of the tough choices on policy. and is governor romney unelectable in your judgment, mr. perry? >> you have to ask the question, who is it that can beat obama and who can invigorate the tea party and who can take the message of smaller outside government that is truly going to change that place, as i look from here down to rick santorum, i see insiders, those who have been the big-spending

republicans in washington, d.c. let's be honest with ourselves. the fact of the matter is obama has thrown gasoline on the fire. but the bon fire was burning well before obama got there. it was policies and spending both from wall street and from the insiders in washington d.c. that got us in this problem. we need a candidate that can not only draw that stark contrast between themselves and barack obama, but also stand up and lead the tea party movement back. 2010 was about the tea party standing up and understanding that republicans, big-spending republicans had caused as much of the problem as anything. it was their power that brought together -- that brought washington, d.c. and the house to republican control, and that's the kind of individual that we have to have to lead this election. >> governor romney i would be remiss to not respond to the

quote i read from you nine years ago, so what would you say to conservatives that they will trust you will stand up? >> they have my record as governor. i had the occasion after my last failed attempt for running for president, to sit down and write a book, and people can describe it in different ways, but my view is that the principles that i learned in business and the principles as governor, frankly it made me more conservative as time has gone on. i have seen a lot of government trying to solve problems, and it didn't work. the right course for america is to have somebody who understands how the economy works, and will passionately get back on track. >> this is an age of austerity for the country, and a jobs crisis and spending crisis in washington. i wonder what specifically you would do to say to americans, these are cuts i am going to

make in federal spending that will cause pain that will require a sacrifice? >> let me say, first are all, with respect to governor romney, there are a lot of people who are tuning in this morning, and i am sure they are terribly confused after watching all of the political spin up here. i was criticized last night by governor romney for putting my country first. and i just want to remind the people here in new hampshire and throughout the united states that i think -- [ applause ] -- he criticized me while he was out raising money for sir viervy country in china. like my two sons, they are not asking what the political is -- i will always put my country first. >> i will come back to you on the austerity question. >> i think we serve our country

first by standing for people who believe in conservative principles and doing everything in our power to promote an agenda that does not include president obama's agenda. i don't disrespect your decision to work for president obama, but most likely it's the person that should represent our party running against president obama is not somebody that went to be his ambassador in china. >> this station is divided, david, because of attitudes like that. [ applause ] >> the american people are tired of the partisan division, and they have no trust left among the american people and our elected officials. i say we have had enough and we have to change our direction in terms of coming together as americans first and foremost -- >> dr. paul said let's not be superficial. name three areas where americans

will feel three pain in order to balance the budget? >> well, i would have to say that i agree with the ryan plan. i am the only one standing up here who embraced the ryan plan. it's an aggressive approach to taking about $6.2 trillion out of the budget over ten years. and it looks at everything. what i like about it, it says there will be no sacred cow. department of defense won't be a sacred cow. as the president of the united states i am going to stand up and say we are where we are, 24% spending as -- >> three programs that will make americans feel pain, sir? >> let me say on entitlements, across the board i will tell the upper income category, there will be means testing. >> social security and medicare? >> absolutely. absolutely. and also, i am not going to tie the department of defense testing to some percentage of gdp, but i will tie it to a

strategy that protects the american people, and if you think we can't find cuts in the department of defense budget, then we are crazy. >> santorum, three departments? >> i agree, means testing. i talked about how we have to make sure we will not burden generations with social security that is underfunded, and we have to take those who are successful and seniors and have reduced wealth. tax on labor makes it uncompetitive, and the idea somebody on the left would raise those taxes to subsidize high income seniors doesn't make sense to me. and including housing programs,

block rent them, and send it back to the states and require work and put a time limit. you do those three things, and we will help take those programs, which are now dependency programs, and you take them to transitional programs to help people move out of that you hapoverty. >> you talked about what paul ryan was talking about was a step too far, which was moving seniors on to a voucher program. senator santorum thinks current seniors should be moved off of the program into a voucher program, and do you agree with that? >> the fact is, the ryan bill which was introduced recently incorporates allowing people to choose. they can go to new methods. it's a substantial improvement.

it allows for a transition in medicare in a way that makes sense. but david, you know, i find it fascinating that very, very highly paid washington common taters and analysts love the idea of pain. who is going to be in pain? the duty of the president is to find a way to manage the federal government so the primary pain is on changing the bureaucracy on theft alone we could save $100 billion a year if the federal government were competent. the only people in pain would be crooks. i think a sound approach would be to improve the government and not punishment person people because of the failure of the political class to have any sense of cleverness. >> there's a lot of questions that have been submitted. this is from martin montalvo. with more americans on government assistance than ever before is it un-american to feel

relieves when the government helps them? >> what are the three areas that you would make reductions that people would feel pain, and i would tell you it would be the bureaucrats at the department of commerce and energy and education that we're going to do away with. [ applause ] >> and that's your final answer? >> you know, the fact of the matter is, americans want to have a job. that's the issue here. and the idea that there are people clamoring for government to come and give them assistance is just wrong headed. and that's what we need to be focussing on as a people is how do we create the environment in the country, where the intrapreneurs know they can have a return on investment and create jobs so the people have dignity to take care of their problems. i have done that for the last 11 years in the state of texas and

have the executive governorning experiencing that nobody else up here on the stage has. >> we will take a quick break and come back live from new hampshire with many more questions from the candidates and feedback from you. please participate online. we're coming right back to new hampshire. laces? really? slip-on's the way to go. more people do that, security would be like -- there's no charge for the bag. thanks. i know a quiet little place where we can get some work done. there's a three-prong plug. i have club passes. [ male announcer ] now there's a mileage card that offers special perks on united, like a free checked bag, united club passes, and priority boarding. thanks. ♪ okay. what's your secret? ♪ [ male announcer ] the new united mileageplus explorer card. get it and you're in. there's a different cream. i challenge that with olay. i've found one cream with everything i'm looking for... olay total effects. with 7 age defying effects in just one, easy to use cream.

i've swapped to all-in-one total effects. why don't you swap too? okay... is this where we're at now, we just eat whatever tastes good? like these sweet honey clusters... actually there's a half a day's worth of fiber in every ... why stop at cereal? bring on the pork chops and the hot fudge. fantastic. are you done sweetie? yea [ male announcer ] fiber beyond recognition. fiber one. hey, i love your cereal there-- it's got that sweet honey taste. but no way it's 80 calories, right? no way. lady, i just drive the truck. right, there's no way right, right?

have a nice day. [ male announcer ] 80 delicious calories. fiber one. diarrhea, gas or bloating? get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. c'mon, michael! get in the game! [ male announcer ] don't have the hops for hoops with your buddies? lost your appetite for romance? and your mood is on its way down. you might not just be getting older. you might have a treatable condition called low testosterone or low t. millions of men, forty-five or older, may have low t. so talk to your doctor about low t. hey, michael! [ male announcer ] and step out of the shadows. hi! how are you? [ male announcer ] learn more at isitlowt.com. [ laughs ] hey!

snet ♪

♪ we are back on this special edition of "meet the press" from new hampshire. we want to get back to the questions with our questions for the candidates. before the break, we were talking about medicare. paul ryan had a program where there was supreme support, and there's debate about that. you said seniors should be affected right now, 55 plus, and that's been controversial. >> i hear this all the time. i have been campaigning around the state. you know, we should have the same kind of health care that members of congress have. it works very well. the federal government has a liability. they put money out there, and then if you want, you have about

this thick, you have a whole bunch of plans to use from, and options available to you. if you want more of an expensive plan, you may more, and if you want it less expensive, you don't. you belief people can make choices, and i believe seniors like everybody else should be free to make the choices in the health care plan that is best for them. >> there's discussion this morning on facebook about taxes. as we talk about taxes and spending, of course we fwauk economic security and economic growth. there has been a debate in washington and beyond between warren buffett and the tax crusa crusader, and war yren buffett says the wealthy can pay more and should pay more. who knows more about the american economy?

nor quis or warren buffett? >> i am not sure if we can choose from the two of them. the right course for america is not to raise taxes on americans. i understand president obama and people of his political persuasion would like to take more money from the american people. we have been going over the last 20 or 30, 40 years, government is growing faster. we have to stop the extraordinary spending in the country. i put out a plan that reduces spending and cut a whole series of programs, and the number one to cut is obama care, and that saves $95 billion a year. and just as rick indicated, return to states a whole series of programs, food stamps and set how much goes to them, and in the entitlement reform area, i do not want to change things for

current retirees, and for younger people coming up, higher income people will receive less payments. >> who knows more about the american economy? you seem uncomfortable from a moment earlier when everybody said they would reject a 10 to 1 ratio of cuts for new taxes. >> it was a silly format. they asked us to raise hands and we did not get a chance to talk about it. i put a tax reform on the table and it calls for what everybody needs to be done, and everybody knows about it. it weighs down the tax code to the tune of 1 trillion or $100 billion. we have to phase out loopholes and reduck sctions in total.

we have to prepare for competition. >> if you become president gang rich and the leader of the democrats, and harry reid said he will promise to make you a one-term president. how would you propose to work with somebody like that and make changes in washington? >> i think everybody knows -- that's the american process. i worked with ronald reagan in the early 1980s, and tip o'neal was speaker and he wanted to make reagan a one-term president. as speaker, i was negotiating with bill clinton. he knew i wanted him to be a one-term president. we got a lot of things done including quell fawelfare refor. the country comes first. how are we going to get things done? we will fight later. let's sit down in a room and talk it through. i will tell what you i need and

i will tell you what i can't do. you tell me what you need and what you can't do, and sometimes it takes 20 or 30 days. but if people of goodwill, even if they are partisans, come together and talk it out, you know, we have welfare reform, and the first tax cut in 26 years, and 4.2 unemployment, and a four straight year period with a balanced budget, it can be done with real leadership. >> anybody else have a point of view about how you actually work with the other side when they committed to working against you, governor? >> yeah, i was governor of a state that had a slightly democratic leading house and senate. my legislation was 85% democrat, and i went around at the very beginning and met with the speaker of the house and the senate president, and he said mitt, the campaign is over and the people expect us to govern for them and we did. we met every week. we got to know each other personally and developed a

relationship of respect and repor rapport, even though we did disagree on many issues. without a vote of the legislature, they had enough confidence in me where they decided to do that, and i was able to cut the spending on the emergency basis, and we can work together, and republicans and democrats are able to go across the aisle because we have common -- we do have areas of common interests, even though they are dramatic different perspectives on how the world works and what is right, we can find common ground. i am able to work with people, projected charter schools and drove our schools to be number one in the nation and kept them there, rather, and that record can work with republicans and democrats willing to work together. >> dr. paul, the question comes from facebook.

heath treat rights, i want to know what ron paul's plan of action will be to achieve getting the house and senate to help him do all he has promised? only four measures made it to a vote on the house floor and only one has been signed into law. >> you know, that demonstrates how much out of touch the u.s. government and congress is with the american people, because i am supporting things that help the american people. that's the disgust people have because they cope growing government. as far as working with other groups, i think my record is about as good as anybody's. i work that freedom and the constitution bring them together. people use freedoms to invite differences in religious and economic beliefs. on civil liberties, that's a

different segment. republican conservatives are not all that well known for protecting personal liberties. spending overseas, i can work a coalition. my plan is to try and work our way out of social security. i am cutting $1 trillion by attacking overseas spending and going back to the '06 budget. people that got special privileges from the government, they may get the pain, but the american people get their freedom back and they don't suffer pain. >> two previous presidents, they talked about transforming washington, and it hasn't worked. washington polarized, and the american people are sick of the fact that nothing gets done in washington. specifically, how do you change

that? >> well, let me address congressman paul, and he never passed anything of any importance, and one of the reasons people like congressman paul is his economic plan. he has never been able to accomplish any of that. he has no track record to work together, and he has been unsuccessful to work with anybody to do anything. what congressman paul can do as commander in chief, he can pull all the troops out of overseas and put them here in america, and then put them in situations where there will be huge vacuums all over the place, and look at the straits of hormuz. we would not have the fifth fleet there. all the things we're worried about, he would do day one. that's the problem. what we need to do is have

somebody who has a plan and has experience to do all the things republicans and conservatives would like to do. >> let me respond -- >> i would like my opportunity to finish. >> it's not a task, 100 years of us still running a foreign policy of woodrow wilson trying to make it safe for democracy. change in foreign policy is significant. but that's where a nation will come down if they keep doing this. we can't stay in 130 countries and get involved in nation willeding and cannot have 900 bases overseas, and we have to change policy. what about monetary policy? yes, we do. we had that for 100 years. we are winning that battle, and the american -- 75% of the american people say we ought to audit the federal reserve and find out what they are doing, and who are their friends they

are bailing out constantly. >> it's easy to say, boy, i will change the culture in washington, but it has not worked for the past two presidents. >> i >>. >> it worked in my case. welfare reform. i remember standing next to ted kennedy, and he was out there talking about how this was going to be the end of civilization as we know it, there would be bread lines, the consequences of removing federal support from mothers with children, and we said creating the dependency on federal dollars is more harmful and not believing in people and their ability to work is more harmful. we stood up and fought. we went out to the american public, and bill clinton vetoed this bill twice, and we had hard opposition, and i was able to work together and paint a vision.

the core principles were this was going to end the federal program and put time limits on welfare. i stuck to those principles, and we were able to compromise on things like transportation funding and day care funding, all in order to get a consensus that poverty is not a disability, and programs that we need to put in place should help transition people and not make them dependent, and we were able to get votes of 17 democrats. >> governor huntsman, this question of if the leader of the democrats promised to make you a one-term president, how would you go about it differently than obama did? >> i think it comes down to one word, and the one word is trust. when the american people look at the political process play out, they hear all the spinning and language, and they walk away with the belief they are not being represented in congress.

the first press conference i had when i ran for governor in 2004 was on ethics in government service. i talked about term limits. i talked about campaign finance reform. i talked about the role of lobbyist and knew i would not make a lot of friends. i had one member of the legislature that supported me in that run. we won because we had the will of the people. i believe the next president -- and if that is to be me, i want to roam around the country and generate the level of excitement and enthusiasm that i know exist among the american people to bring term limits to congress. to close the resolvolving door. we have to start with the structural problems. there's no trust. >> governor perry, i want to continue on the theme of leadership. >> you need to. >> as you know, new hampshire is

an independent place. i wonder where, besides criticizing the previous administration for running up the debt, i wonder where you would buck your party? what would you say or do to make republicans uncomfortable? >> i hope i am making them uncomfortable right now by talking about the spending they did in the 2000. >> aside from that -- >> well, dr. paul says the big egs problem is work overseas, and i disagree, i believe it's a congress out of control with their spending. we have to have an outsider that will walk in, not part of the insider group you see here, people who voted for raising the debt limit and people who have been part of the problem facing america, i will tell you two things that can occur, that a president can lead the charge on, and it will put term limits into place. one of those is a part-time

congress to tell those members of congress we're going to cut your pay and the amount of time that you spend in washington, d.c. and send you back to your district so can you have a job and live under the laws of which you pass, and then a balanced budget amendment -- >> my question, sir, is -- >> that would make them uncomfortab uncomfortable. >> you think that will make them um comfortable? >> you right. a bunch of up here stand up and say they are conservatives, but their records don't follow that. >> we will take another quick break and return with much more. oh it's clearance time! yeah, our low prices are even lower. we need to teach her how to walk. she is taking up valuable cart space. aren't you, honey? [ male announcer ] it's our biggest clearance event of the year where our prices are even lower. save money. live better. walmart.

we are back in new hampshire. i am happy to be joined by our local partners for the debate, senior political reporter, john dau stays yo is with us, and from whth -- we had this problem yesterday, channel 7 in boston, political director. john, get it started. >> governor huntsman, home heating oil is $4 a gallon, and

president obama and congress have cut 25% who helps low income people heat their homes. 1 million households last year won't be helped this year that were helped last year. should this program funding be restored or cut more? shouldn't this program be eliminated, perhaps? where does it fit in. it's a practical problem in this area of the country. >> we have people in need and suffering. this is a challenge that we need to address. i believe we are not going to be able to effectively confront it head on until this nation can move towards greater energy diversity and independence. one of the first things i would do as president is to look at the distribution bias that always favors one product, and that's oil. i would say if we are going to do what needs to be done, and get them to the customers, we're

going to have to break up the one distribution property. we went to the federal trade commission and said we need more and sources to draw from, and service the consumers. if we will do what needs to be done from an energy independent standpoint, all products getting the products to the customer, we have to disrupt that one-product monopoly, that does not serve that well nor it's consumers. >> congressman paul -- [ applause ] -- how do you feel about subsidies in general for energy, and also more specifically, right now, more immediately, this low income program, heating assistance program, is this something that fits in under your view of what government does do or should not do? >> well, some say it's bad economic policy and moral policy

because it's moving government force to transfer money from one group to another and economically it does a lot of harm, but when it comes to energy, we should deregulate it like others talk about it. we need to talk -- supply and demand. everybody needs supply and demand and we talk about oil and if we had more alternative sources we hope the prices would go down, but 50% of the transaction is the monetary unit. few people talk about the supply and demand of money. so prices go up much faster than any i would replace, so if you print money to subsaw dice somebody, you compound the problem. yeah, it's good politics, but it's bad economic policy and not a good way to find answers.

>> governor romney, this is a good topic. there's a larger question about the social safety net. what about americans left behind? in this agef austerity, what do americans have to learn to live with less of? >> we don't need a federal government saying we are going to solve all the problems of poverty across the country. what it means to be poor in massachusetts is different than other places in the country. that's why these programs, all these federal programs that are bundled to help people need to be brought together and sent back to the states, and let states closest to the needs of their own people craft the programs that are able to deal with the needs of those folks. whether it's food stamps and housing view chur voech voucher. you have massive over head with government bureaucrats in

washington administering all these program, and the money that goes to the people that in building program after program. it's time to say enough of that. let's get the money back to the states the way the constitution intended and let states care for their own people in the way they feel best. [ applause ] governor romney, i'd like to remind you of something you said in bay windows, which is a gay newspaper in massachusetts in 1994 when you were running against senator kennedy. these are your words. "i think the gay community needs more support from the republican party and i would be a voice in the republican party to foster anti-discrimination efforts." how have you stood up for gay rights and when have you used your voice to influence republicans on this issue? >> andy, as you know, i don't discriminate. and the appointments that i made

whiffs governor of massachusetts. a member of my cabinet was gay. i appointed people to the bench regardless of their sexual orientation, made it clear we should not discriminate in hiring policies, in legal policies. at the same time, from the very beginning in 1994, i said to the gay community, i do not favor same sex marriage. i oppose same sex marriage and that has been my view. if people are looking for someone who will discriminate against gays or will in any way try and suggest that people -- that have different sexual orientation don't have full rights in this country, they won't find that in me. >> when was the last time you stood up and spoke out for increasing gay rights? >> right now. [ applause ] >> senator santorum, would you be a voice for increasing gay rights in party. >> surprised he's coming to me.

what was your question? >> would you be a voice for speaking out for gay rights in your party and if not, why not? >> i would be a voice in speaking out for making sure that every person in america, gay or straight, is treated with respect and dignity and has the equality of opportunity. that does not mean that i would agree with certain things that the gay community would like to do with changing laws, with respect to marriage and adoption. you can be respectful. this is the beautiful thing about this country. james madison called the first amendment, he called it the perfect remedy. that is people of all different backgrounds, diversity, opinions, faith, can come into the public square and can be heard and can be heard in a way that's respectful of everybody else. just because you don't agree with someone's desire to change the law doesn't mean you don't like them or you hate them or you want to discriminate against them. you're trying to promote things that you think are best for society, and i do so and i think if you watch the town hall

meetings that i've been doing all over new hampshire. i do so in a respectful tone. i listen to the other side, i let them make argument and we do so in a very respectful way and you know what, we may not agree. that's why we leave it open to the public to elect members of congress and the senate and president who support their ideas. what if you had a son who came to you and said he was gay? >> i would love him as much as i did the second before he said it. and i would try to do everything i can to be as good a father to him as possible. [ applause ] >> governor perry, we're going to move on. right to work which outlaws mandatory membership continues to be a major issue in the state of new hampshire. you've talk en about having states pass state laws. what about on the federal level, is this as a federal issue and one you would promote as president? >> actually, it is a federal issue and it's a federal issue because of the law that was

passed that forces the states to make a decision about whether or not they're going to be right to work. jim demint's legislation, i would support that of repealing that legislation that forces states to make that decision to be a right to work rather than all of this country being right to work. listen, i'm not anti-union. i'm pro job. the way you promote this country's rehabilitation from the obama administration's attack on job creation is by taxes and regulation, particularly the regulatory side and pulling those regulations that have gone forward over the course of the last, since '08 and test them all. do they create jobs or do they kill jobs? if they kill jobs, you throw them out. that will make more difference in this country from the standpoint -- i'm a right to work guy. i come from a right to work state. if new hampshire wants to become the magnet for job creation, you pass that right to work wedge lags in this state.

[ applause ] >> i'd like to ask governor romney and senator santorum quickly. what positive contributions to labor unions provide in this country at this point in the 21st century? >> the carpenters union, for instance, trains their workers to be more effective on the job. when they compete against nonunion workers, they do that on a fair basis. that's a positive contribution. with regard to unions, i agree with governor perry, right to work legislation makes a lot of sense for the nation. let's not forget the government unions and the impact they're having. if we're going to pull back the extraordinary political power, government -- we're going to have that say that people who work for the government, government workers should have their compensation tied to that which exists this the private sector. people are government servants, public servants should not be paid more than the taxpayers paying for them. >> can i very quickly. we're about to hit a hard break. comment on this? >> i've signed a pledge that i

would support a national right to work. i mentioned this last night when i was a senator for pennsylvania. i did not vote for it. they're not a right to work state. i didn't want to vote for a law there that did that. as mitt mentioned, they can do training and they do a lot in the community. i work with a lot of laib unions in philadelphia and other places to do community involvement work. they try to participate as good members of the community like a business does. >> i got to cut you off. we have a mandatory break. we'll be back with more questions in just a moment. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy?

we have come to the end of our first hour of this nbc news facebook debate here in new hampshire. a few nbc stations may be leaving us now. for most of you watching live on msnbc and online, please stay

tuned. glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] new glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. my high school science teacher made me what i am today. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪ ♪ feel the power my young friend. mmm! [ male announcer ] for unsurpassed fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion. could've had a v8.

the nbc news facebook republican presidential candidates debate continues from new hampshire. now, the moderator of meet the press, david gregory. [ applause ] >> we are back for our final half hour. so much discussion, speaker gingrich on facebook in the course of this debate about jobs. you can understand why. we've talked about spending, we've talked about economic growth. it was governor romney who made the point to a young person who approached him. if he were president and when this person got out of college, he or she would have a job. if president obama has a second term, he or she will not have a job. isn't that the kind of thing that makes people angry, the

politicians, easy answers like that? >> i don't think that's an easy answer. i think that's a statement of fact. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> let me go back to what john distaso said. it's the same question. the long-term answer to $4 heating oil is to open up off shore development of oil and gas, open up federal lines to oil and gas. flood the market as dr. paul said, make supply and demand work for us, not against us. price will come down. under obama, 2011 was the highest price of gasoline in history. it's a direct result of his policies, which kill jobs, raise the price of heating oil and gasoline, weaken the united states increase our dependence on foreign countries and in the face of iran trying to close the straits of who muz. there's 3.2% unemployment in

north dakota. there's a hint here. you can have jobs, lower price heating oil, which by the way means less lie heap spending. more revenue from the federal government from royalties, less spending on subsidies. lower price. people are happier all the way around. that's what it was originally all about in the 1970s. >> governor romney, on this economic question, you blame president obama for the jobs crisis but when you look at the data and a positive trend line, he gets the blame and none of the credit sh. >> actually i don't blame him for the recession and the decline. what i blame him for is having it go on so long and a recovery that's been so tepid. businesses i talked to all over the country that would normally be hiring people are not hiring. i asked them why. they say because they look at the policies of this administration and they feel they're under attack. when you have an administration that tries to raise taxes and has on businesses, when it puts in place obama care that's going to raise the cost of healthcare for businesses and stack the national labor relations board

with labor stooges which means that the policies relating to labor are now going to change dramatically in a direction they find uncomfortable, when you have obama care that places more mandates on them and harder for banks to make loans. all these things create a reality of a president who has been anti-investment, anti-jobs, anti-business and people feel that. if you want to get this country going again, you have to recognize that the role of government is not just to catch the bad guys. important as that is. it's also to encourage the good guys. to return america to a land of opportunity. >> back to john and andy. john, go ahead. >> governor romney, i'll stay with you for one moment on the talking about regulation. one of your prime new hampshire supporters, senator a yot has said new hampshire should not be the tile pipe for pollutant. many attacked a rule limiting

air pollution affecting downwind states, which he and others join with the president and senate democrats to block a repeal effort. now, is this an example of this trust state air pollution rule of fair regulation, something that we in the northeast are very concerned about in terms of pollution or is this overregulation, job killing overregulation? >> i'm not familiar with the specific regulation as it applies to new hampshire. but i do believe that we have a responsibility to keep the air clean and we have to find ways to assure that we don't have the pollution of one state overwhelming the ability of another state to have clean air. in my state of massachusetts, we received a lot of air from the rest of the country, obviously given the winds coming from the west of the country to the east. so the responsibility in our state was to get the cost -- get the emissions from our power plants down. that's one of the reasons why we moved to natural gas. really, by the way, its discussion about energy and security, getting a cost of gasoline down, the big

opportunity here is not just a new oil distribution system but it's a natural gas. we have massive new natural gas reserves found in pennsylvania, in north dakota, south dakota, texas, natural gas cheap, a fraction of the cost for btu oil. if we want to help people in new england that want homes and businesses that emote less pollutants into the air and lower cost energy, it's let's build out this natural gas system to take advantage of the new source of economic strength. >> speaker gingrich, what exactly is an environmental solutions agency? i think a lot of people may not want to understand why you want to expand the epa and set up something that looks like the epa. >> if you look at the epa's record, it's increasingly radical and i am peer yus. it doesn't cooperate and collaborate and doesn't take into account economics. the city of nashville recently had a dump that was cited by

epa. they went to find out why. they told them frankly we don't know. we can't find the records that led to this citation. we're not exactly sure what a reference. it must be bad or we wouldn't have sent it out. in iowa, they had a dust regulation under way because they control particulate matter. i agree on clean air. dust in iowa is an absurdity. they were worried that the plowing of a crown field would leave dust for another farmer's field. they were -- in arizona they went in on the dust regulation and suggested that maybe if they watered down the earth, they wouldn't have the dust storms in the middle of the year and people said the reason it's called a desert. [ laughter ] is there's no water. this is an agency out of touch with reality which i believe is incorrigible and you need a new agency that's practical, has common sense, uses economic factors and in case of

pollution, actually incentivizes change, doesn't punish it. andy? >> governor perry, your party's last nominee, john mccain wrote in the washington post about a year ago. his words, "i disagree with many of the president's policies. i believe he is a patriot using his time in office to advance our country's cause. i reject that his policies and believes make him unworth toy lead america or oppose to its founding ideals." agreed? >> i make a very proud statement and a fact that we have a president that's a socialist. i don't think our founding fathers wanted america to be a socialist country. so i disagree with that premise that somehow or another that president obama reflects our founding fathers. he doesn't. he talks about having a more powerful, more centralized, more consuming and costly federal government.

i am a tenth amendment believing governor. i truly believe that we need a president that respects the tenth amendment, that pushes back to the states, whether it's how to deliver education, how to deliver healthcare, how to do our environmental regulations. the states will considerably do a better job than a one size fits all washington, d.c. led by this president. >> can i jump in. governor perry, they call the president a socialist. senator santorum, when you voted for a new prescription drug benefit that did not have a funding mechanism, were you advancing socialism? >> i said repeatedly that we should have had a funding mechanism and it's one of those things that i had a very tough vote, as you know. in that bill, we had health savings account. i had been fighting for that for 15 years to transform the private sector healthcare system. we had medicare advantage to transform the medicare system

into -- medicare advantage is basically a premium support type model. >> is it sewsism, that's the point. >> i think i answered your question. maybe we're not communicating well. i talked about that health savings accounts is an anti-socialistic idea to try to build a bottom up consumer-based economy. in healthcare. the same thing with medicare advantage. we also structured the medicare part d benefit to be a premium support model as a way to transition medicare. there were a lot of good things in that bill. one really bad thing. we should have paid for it. that was a mistake. >> follow-up on that? >> no. i'm going to switch to congressman paul and say many americans, particularly democrats, believe that hoig books healthcare is a right. in your opinion, what services are all americans entitled to expect to get from government? >> entitlements are not rights. rights mean you have a right -- [ applause ]

>> rights mean you have a right to your life and you have a right to your liberty and you should have a right to keep the fruits of your labor. this is quite a bit difference. but earlier on, there was a little discussion here about gay rights. i in a way don't like to use those terms. gay rights, women's rights, minority rights, religious rights. there's only one type of right. it's your right to your liberty. i think this causes divisiveness when we see people in groups. we punish groups so the answer then was, let's relieve them by giving them affirmative action. so i think both are wrong. if you think in terms of individuals and protect every single individuals, they're not entitled. one group isn't entitled to take somebody from somebody else. basic problem here there's a lot of good intention to help poor people. but guess who guess the entitlements in washington? the rich people. they run the entitlement system.

the military industrial kplek complex. in our remaining moment, back to you, john. >> governor hunts man, andy and i are about to round -- as someone who has been here in new hampshire. live free or die, what does that mean to you personally and how would it guide you in the white house? >> it is the fulfillment of a citizenry being able to live out the meaning of our founding documents. life, liberty and the pursuit of happine happiness. everywhere i've gone in this great state and we've done 160-plus public events. [ applause ] i feel it and i sense it and people take that very seriously. you know what else they take seriously, they take seriously the idea of real leadership. i've heard a lot of obfuscating up here, the blame game, talking about gays and unions. everybody has something nasty to say. the people of this country are waiting for, they want a leader

to unify, who is going to bring us together. because at the end of the day, that's what leadership is all about. it's not about taking on different groups and vilifying them for whatever reason. it's about projecting a vision for a more hopeful tomorrow. that's why there's no trust in in country today. that's why, as president, i'm going to attack that trust deficit just as aggressively as i attack that economic deficit. with no trust, i can't think of anything more corrosive longer term to the people of this nationment. >> we're going to leave it there. thank you john, and andy both. we'll take a quick break. i'll be back with a final round of questions including the questions from our meet the press facebook page. we'll be back in just a moment. ♪ imagine zero pollutants in our environment. or zero dependency on foreign oil. ♪ this is why we at nissan built a car inspired by zero.

because zero is worth everything. the zero gas, 100% electric nissan leaf. innovation for the planet. innovation for all. >> good morning, dave. >> good morning, dave. [taps on window] dave. >> both: hey, dave. >> hey. >> hey, dave. >> mr. dave... >> dave? >> 'sup, dave? >> dave? dave? >> dave? >> dave! dave? >> hi, dave. >> oh, dave's looking for you. >> [singing] >> hey, dave. >> [loud] yo, dave! >> announcer: in a small business, it's all you. that's why you have us. at staples, we have low prices on everything your small business needs. staples. that was easy. [ male announcer ] cranberry juice? wake up! ♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8.

we are back. gentlemen, candidates, we have just a few minutes left. i'd like to try something, because i do want to get to as much substance and pin you down on views as best i can. i know this could be hard for you. but you are spending a lot of money getting your message out in 30-second increments based on

what i've been watching in the hotel room in new hampshire. let's try 30-second answers to some of the questions. senator santorum, iran, it's been a big issue throughout the campaign so far. i wonder why it is, if america's lift with a nuclear soviet union, we've come to live with a nuclear north korea. why is it that we cannot live with a nuke lar iran? if we can't, are you prepared to tab the country to war to disarm that country? >> they're a theocracy. they have deeply embedded believes that the afterlife is better than this life. president ahmadinejad repeatedly said that the republic of iran martyr come. when your principle virtue is to die for allah, it's not a deterrent to have a threat. it is an encouragement for them

to use their nuclear weapon. that's why there's a difference between the soviet and union and china and others. >> what about pakistan, they're an indifferent ally at best. are you peeped to say they must disarm or else? >> they're not a theocracy. a more secular state that's in place today. there is a serious threat. this administration has bungled it badly and trying to continue the positive relationships, we've had serious problems with the pakistani military, obviously with respect to osama bin laden, with respect to others. the reason is we have a president who is very weak in that region of the world and not respected and he's not been able to have that strong hand in working with pakistan that they're used to. >> speaker gingrich, the tone of this campaign. i was in iowa, i heard you on the stump. you complained bitterly about the super pack, the outside

groups that were lodging charges against you, bringing up some old issues against you. now you have a former campaign spokesperson preparing attacks against romney calling him a predator at the -- you agreed with somebody who said that governor romney was a liar when he didn't take account for those attacks against you. are you consistent now as you're preparing to launch against governor romney? >> sure. >> how so? >> i'm consistent because i think you ought to have fact-based campaigns. the talk about the records. >> calling him a predator is not over the line? >> i have to look at the film which i have not seen. the times on thursday, you have to say engaged in behavior where they looted a company leaving 17 unemployed people. that's the new york times. that's not me. one of the ads i complained about, for pinocchios from the washington post. to get four of them in an ad

means there's virtually nothing accurate in 30 seconds. >> you decry the washington establishment and you talked about the new york times and washington post. you've agreed with a characterization that governor romney is a liar. >> governor, i wish you would calmly and directly state it is your former staff running the p.a.c. it is your millionaire friends giving the p.a.c. and you know some of the ads aren't true. just say that. straightforward. [ applause ] >> well, of course it's former staff of mine and of course the people who support me. they wouldn't be putting money into a p.a.c. that supports me if they didn't support me. with regards to their ads, i haven't seen them. under the law, i can't direct their ads. i can't direct their ads. if there's anything in there that's wrong, i hope everything is taken out if it's wrong. let me tell you this. the ad i saw said that you had been forced out of the speakership. that was correct. it said that you had sat down

with nancy pelosi and argued for a climate change bill. that was correct. it said that you called the ron paul -- paul ryan's plan to provide medicare reform a right wing social engineering plan. it said that as part of an investigation and ethics investigation that you had to reimburse some $300,000. those things are all true. if there was something related to abortion that it said that was wrong, i hope they pull it out. anything wrong, i'm opposed to. but you know, this ain't bean bag. we're going to come into a campaign and describe the differences between us. >> go ahead, speaker. >> i do think the rhetoric was a little over the top. >> you think my rhetoric was over the top. but your ads were totally reasonable? that's -- i've taken the governor's advice. >> mr. speaker, the super p.a.c.s that are out there running ads with ron paul's, mine, yours, as you know, that is not my ad. i don't write that adment.

>> how about this. >> mr. speaker -- >> i wouldn't call some of the things you've called me public. i think that's over the top. >> would you both agree to request that these super p.a.c. ads be taken down? >> wait a second. come on. come on. i'm glad finally on this stage weeks later, he has said gee if they're wrong they should take them down. we've sent a letter warning the stations to fact check them before they start running them. i'm taking his advice. we started to run his commercial from 1994, attacking teddy kennedy for running negative ads. we thought no, that would be wrong. instead, i agree with him. takes broad shoulders to run. if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. when the 27 and a half men and women movie comes out, i hope it's accurate. i can say publicly i hope that the super p.a.c. runs an accurate movie about -- bloomberg, news, barons.

i hope it's totally accurate and people can watch the 27 and a half minutes of his career. let me ask you senator santorum. we talked about the role of government. but it's often called the bully pulpit. how would you use the bully pulpit to shape american culture and values? >> i haven't written a lot of books. i've written one. it was in response to a book written by hillary clinton called it takes a village. i didn't agree with that. i believe it takes a family. that's what i wrote. i believe there's one thing that's undermining this country and it is the breakdown of the american family, it's undermining our economy, you see the rates of poverty among single parent families which are moms are doing heroic things. it's harder. it's five times harder in a single parent family. we know there's certain things at work in america. the institute came out with a study a couple of years ago that said if you graduate from high school and if you work and if you're a man, if you marry, if you're a woman, you marry before

you have children, you have a 2% chance of being in poverty in america and to be above the median income, if you do those three things, 77% chance of being above the median income. why isn't the president of the united states or why aren't leaders in this country talking about that and trying to formulate, not necessarily federal government policy but local policy and state policy and community policy to help people do those things that we know work and we know are good for society. this pt doesn't. in fact, he's required programs not to talk about marriage. not to talk about abstinence in order to get federal funds. he's working exactly against the things he knows works because he has a secular ideology against the -- >> dr. paul, how would you use the bully pull put? >> i would continue to preach the gospel of liberty. the most important ingredients in this country that made us great. our founders understood what liberty meant. that is what we need. we have deserted that. we have drifted a long way.

it involves our right to life, right to liberty. we ought to be able to keep the fruits of our labor. understand property rights. understand contract rights. we ought to understand what what sound money is about and defense needs. the bully pulpit we need, we need to defend liberty. >> all right. defend liberty and -- >> and liberty. [ laughter ] >> thank you. we'll take another break here. we'll be back with closing moments right after this. -on's . more people do that, security would be like -- there's no charge for the bag. thanks. i know a quiet little place where we can get some work done. there's a three-prong plug. i have club passes. [ male announcer ] now there's a mileage card that offers special perks on united, like a free checked bag, united club passes, and priority boarding. thanks. ♪ okay. what's your secret? ♪ [ male announcer ] the new united mileageplus explorer card. get it and you're in. united mileageplus explorer card. the best approach to food

is to keep it whole for better nutrition. that's what they do with great grains cereal. they steam and bake the actual whole grain while the other guy's flake is more processed. mmm. great grains. the whole whole grain cereal. i had eno[ designer ]ng enough of just covering up my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel. it's clinically proven to provide clearer skin. [ rv guy ] enbrel may not work for everyone -- and may not clear you completely, but for many, it gets skin clearer fast, within 2 months, and keeps it clearer up to 9 months. [ male announcer ] because enbrel suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, and nervous system and blood disorders have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections,

have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if, while on enbrel, you experience persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. if you've had enough, ask your dermatologist about enbrel.

i would like to thank the candidates for joining us and our debate partners, facebook, the new hampshire union leader and our hosts in concord, the capital center for the arts. thank you, of course, for watching and participating in this debate online. post analysis continues on msnbc. watch complete coverage of the new hampshire primary returns tuesday night on msnbc and online at nbc politics.com. if it's sunday, it's meet the press. [ applause ]

we've been watching the 15th republican debate of this election season. good morning, i'm chris math in manchester, new hampshire. two days away from the new hampshire primary. we'll be here for the next hour and a half. i'm here with the huffington post political director and eugene robinson, pul utser prize winning author. both are analysts. fantastic event this morning a ripping debate, highly charged. electric in many moments. >> yes. let focus the main question of new hampshire. whether mitt romney will be ratified as the likely nominee of the party in this debate showed his weaknesses. it showed his stance as the nice guy, businessman, nonpolitician was open to question. it was questioned by everybody else on the stage and very surgically and strategically by the questioners, david gregory

and the other. >> your first thought, gene? >> they landed some blows on romney today. the question is, whether it's too late. things happen late in new hampshire. it seems like there's an eternity between today, sunday, and tuesday. but is that really, realistically enough time for the needle to move. >> here is the one-two punch from santorum and gingrich going after romney for being in public life, attacking his geist or his presentation. here is the first shot from santorum. >> i went to massachusetts to make a difference. i didn't go there to begin a political career, running time and time again. i made a difference. i put in place the things i wanted to do. i listed out the accomplishments we wanted to pursue in our administration. there were 100 things we wanted to do. those things i pursued aggressively. some we won, some we didn't. run again? that would be about me. i was trying to help get the state in the best shape as i